Surviving the Black Swan Murder with Eva Benefield

Thank you to Quince for sponsoring this portion of today's episode. Let me tell you, the seasons are changing. It's starting to be time that we can get out our denims again. We can get out our sweaters and there is no better place than Quince. So many of the things I'm constantly reaching for in my closet to layer up, dress up, dress down come from Quince because they have very, very high quality products. I'm talking 100% Mongolian cashmere. They have silk, organic cotton, wool. They have those premium fabrics, but at an amazing price. Everything at Quince is actually priced 50 to 80% less than similar brands. And that is because they work directly with ethical factories, cutting out the middleman. So you're paying for high quality, not brand markup. Actually just last night, Matt was telling me that he grew out of his shorts. I don't fit in my clothes. I've been hitting the gym. And so I need new clothes. He bought me Quince swim trunks that are really high quality. I wear them all the time. We go in the pool with the boys. I'm excited to see what she picks out from Quince. You're nice khaki shorts are from Quince. With the khakis that I wear like literally every day. Those are from Quince. You don't even know where your clothes are from, but if you had to guess, they're probably from Quince because I love shopping their men's section as well for Matt. You can wear them in many different ways for many different seasons. Find your next fall favorites at Quince. Download the Quince app for app exclusive offers or go to quince.com. Get free shipping on your order and 365 day returns now available in Canada and the UK too. And when Quince asks you where you heard about them, let them know that you're a fan of Quince. Let them know that Unplanned sent you. It's the best way to support the show. My mom died at 14, nine months later, my dad remarried a 23 year old. And then five years later he was shot and killed by her. Today we sat down with Eva Benefield, the stepdaughter of the infamous black swan murderer. She had three loaded guns in the house. One was in a hamper on the floor with a toddler walking around. My uncle had texted me and I said, is he dead? And then they said, yes. I was like, did Ashley do it? I looked at my sister and I said, I don't have parents anymore. Eva's father Doug married former ballerina Ashley Byers after a 13 day courtship. Her mom and her followed me into the hallway and they said, your dad, he killed your mom. He's going to kill you. He's going to kill us all. As the murder case made national headlines, Ashley accused Doug of domestic violence, leaving Eva to take the stand in her own father's murder trial. I saw autopsy pictures of my dad that I was not supposed to see. So I couldn't sleep for weeks after that. Eva sets the record straight about the complicated years leading up to her dad's death and what happened when she finally faced her father's death. Eva's father Doug married Ashley Byers, she finally faced her stepmom in court. All on today's episode. So for people that don't know your story, would you mind taking us back to like that day when you were 14 waiting for your mom to pick you up from school? Yeah. So I had just started my freshman year. Um, it was December. It was on a Wednesday and I just, my mom dropped me off for school that morning. I was being a brat. I kind of got into it with her, but I don't even know what at this point, um, slammed the car door. And then after school, she was going to come pick me up. She didn't answer the phone, but that was kind of typical. She was really bad at being on her phone. And so I waited in the car line. And then I had an old friend from my middle school or elementary school who I just reconnected with me because we both transferred from private to public. I said, Hey, can you, can your mom take me home? Cause my mom isn't answering. And she was like, yeah, no problem. So we went to my house and all the lights were off, which was really scary. And then I was like, I don't know, I don't know, I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. All the lights were off, which is still again, normal because my mom hated overhead lights. So I knocked on the door. I didn't have my key for whatever reason. She didn't answer. I thought maybe she's just asleep because she had been up all night, switching her summer closet to her winter closet because you know, she was just like fashionista meticulous about her closet and her clothes. And I said, she was up late last night. She's just asleep. We'll come back. So we went and got dinner and then came back and there, my parents' room, was on the first floor to the left of the front door behind bushes. So I just crawled behind the bushes and I saw something in the window. So I went across the street and got my neighbor and he broke the door down. And then I have a golden Sully who he's the sweetest golden. I mean, y'all have a golden too. So, you know, they just love balls. Yeah. And, um, he, my neighbor came, went inside, came back out and said, Hey, you need to come get Sully. Cause he's about to bite my hand off. So I went and I grabbed Sully and I saw my mom. And then I Mm-hmm. brought Sully back out and, you know, my neighbor came out and just kind of shook his head. And then I, I knew that she was gone. Then I went across the street and did not want to see any of that happening. So. Gosh. Yeah. Sully was protecting her. I know. It's the cutest thing. He went through, I mean, he went, he lived with my dad naturally. He lived with me at one point, kind of bounced around, saw my mom passing away. Like he's seen more than I have. So I wish he could write a book. Cause then his book would be very interesting. Yeah. Literally. Yeah. Wow. I, I can't even imagine. And something that stood out to me reading your story was that you and your mom had been in a disagreement that morning. Yeah. And I feel like that is like one of those worst case scenario type of things where you're like, if only I knew that those were like, I know My last moments. Every night before we go to bed, we have to say goodnight. I love you. Even if we're in a disagreement, it doesn't matter. Like that's like Abby's rule because of like, yeah, it just, you just never want to be, I don't know. I mean, I think for you, it's, it's your Same with a phone call. Like if you end a phone call, like I'm always like, it's that same type of thing. Yeah. Oh, I do the same thing with everyone now too. I can't let an argument go unresolved, even if it is. And I'm like, all right, can we just put it on pause for a second? And like, love you. Good night. But yeah, that was kind of the worst case scenario. And then it ate me alive forever until I finally just realized, you know, she knew I was being a typical teenage girl, 14, just, you know, being a brat. But yeah. And it's like that your relationship was not categorized by those like final moments. It was your everything up to that point. Yeah. And your parents at this time, your parents were separated, right? Or they had been, been divorced. No, they were, my parents were happily married all the way up until the end. Okay. Yeah. Um, they both had marriages or I know my mom did for a fact, I'm pretty sure my dad was married before my mom, but yeah, both very happily married. Um, and then, yeah, I mean, it was just me and my dad after that. And he nine months later married Ashley, which was, she was 23 at the time. Which was nine years older than you, right? Eight years older. Oh, eight years. Yeah. Eight years older than me. Yeah. That was crazy. I found out that they were dating on a Friday and then two days later they were actually married the entire time, but I found out they were married. Um, and then, yeah, that was just kind of, she moved in right after and it was crazy. I had a friend move in also shortly after that she lived with me. Things were fine at first. And then after about six months she kind of started showing her true colors and then it was, they had a baby. She left my dad, started making allegations against my dad. They were going to get a divorce and then they were reconciling and they were getting divorced again and they were separated. And then my dad moved down to Florida and they were doing better. And then five years down the road in 2020, she had decided they were going to get a divorce and then they were separated. And they were going to reconcile and they were going to move to Maryland. And I mean, so much happened within those five years too. I mean, she was making the most crazy allegations. Saying that he was poisoning her, right? Poisoning her, beating her, beating me. I mean, I had to move out at one point from my dad's house when I was 17 for six months. I moved in with my brother, um, because she, she called CPS and she said that I was in danger. So my dad had to get a full investigation done on him. Obviously I was not in danger. And I, you know, I told them that from the get go, I was like, y'all, this girl is crazy. She's clearly trying to get her way. And just every judge, every detective, every single person that she tried to like make these claims to, they were like, no, Doug is, he's not, there's no evidence that he's doing any of these things. So she was just trying to like exhaust every avenue, get her way in the custody battle, kind of show that he was crazy. And she was only fit. She was the only fit person to be the, the single parent. Um, and then obviously got denied, but yeah, so they were going to move to Maryland. They were packing up the U-Haul and she had three loaded guns in the house. Oh gosh. Um, pretty sure it was a Glock too. So no safety, um, could have been, I mean like what right minded person lets that, you know, just like a Glock is actually just a type of gun that does not have a safety on it. So you can literally pick it up and fire it. There's no kind of hamper and a hamper on the floor. Yeah. And then one in a backpack and a closet and one in the pantry and they were also packing the house. And my whole thing is like, look, I think guns obviously are always in the safe if you have them. And safe is one of the first things to go in the U-Haul and why were the guns out, you know? So I think it was premeditated, but yeah, she waited and then she, um, cornered my dad in a room and shot him and then he died. Okay. That's insane. I want to rewind, rewind for just one second because when you casually mentioned that your dad married a 23 year old, the 30 year age gap, right? Yes. How were you, what was your reaction to your dad marrying someone 30 years younger back when you were 15? So I, when I found out they were dating, it was by accident on Friday, he was picking me up from school. He was on a conference call and he was hard of hearing cause he was a Navy pilot for so many years that he just couldn't hear anything. So we had it on speaker really loud. And they said, Doug, are you going to bring your girlfriend to the conference next weekend? And I kind of was like, what girlfriend, you know? And I was 15. I had seen him up late texting you know sending heart emojis whatever so I knew something was going on and I was like what girlfriend he said oh they got me confused with somebody and I was like no that doesn't seem right have you who who are they talking about and he was like we you know she's just a friend nothing more I said have y'all gone to dinner and he said yes I said have y'all kissed and he was like yes and I said all right that is dating in my 15 year old brain that is dating dinner and kissing like that's it and he was like okay yeah I'm dating somebody and so at first I was like okay let me just give it the benefit of the doubt I trust my dad he's you know we are so close and he I met her the next day it was shock factor that she was so young um and I mean she was very pretty so I was kind of like okay this is like I'm super close to my sister-in-law who's around the same age so I was like all right you know maybe this is like not going to be that weird of an adjustment um and then the next day I was upstairs getting ready to go surfing with my friend I was getting all my things at the time I couldn't drive without another adult with a license in the car so um I was my dad was going to drive me with Ashley in the car obviously and he came upstairs and he was like hey but we need to have a family discussion downstairs in the living room I said well no no family discussion because this isn't a family he said yeah yeah we we need to have a discussion I said look I don't I'm not interested in talking about it anymore I'm not interested in talking about it anymore I know you're dating her and good for you I'm going to trust you on that one but I'm just not ready to be that involved in it yet and I said the only thing that I would come downstairs to have a family discussion for is if you said you were going to propose and then as soon as those words came out of my mouth he goes we're married so I got in the car and I got them to get in the back seat of my two-door Jeep Wrangler and I drove myself to my friend's house and then they took the car home and that was that that's such a power move like you're you're the one who's having to act like an adult because you're just you know getting thrown into this yeah crazy situation this this woman that you don't even know is marrying your dad and you're like okay I'm I'm taking action I'm it sounds like that's the type of person you are though that you just take action kind of yes I think I just shut my brain just shuts off and I'm just kind of like all right what's the first step and I actually saw a quote the other day I think it was a like an idiot in motion is better than a smart person at rest or something and I was like look I might not make the best decisions at all times but I'm always like taking the next decision you know wait I want to put that like on my bathroom mirror yeah emotion it's better than a smart person at rest something like that's great yeah you're like that's what I gathered yeah kind of like you can outwork them you know like you you don't have to be that smart to to win if you outwork you know if you if you outwork everybody else you can still be a smart person you can still be stupid and succeed yeah it's I mean it's like you have to have the initiative and the drive and if you know a really smart person that has all of the the what is I guess a really a really not I don't want to say not smart but a less fortunate person with the odds against them that's just constantly trying like that's gonna build their drive you know versus somebody who's very privileged and that's what I see a lot now growing up I I had all the odds against me at one point and I worked hard and I worked hard and I worked hard and I worked hard and I got out of all these situations and I you know I built something for myself versus I know people that you know Charleston parents are very wealthy old money just you know they have the trust fund set up I've heard people say I don't care what I graduate for I have my trust fund that I get when I'm 25 I heard some that some of somebody's mouth one time and I was like okay yeah I don't have that so we're completely different but then you know a few years down the road they're not doing that great because they never had any fire lit under their ass for lack of better terms so I mean that's kind of like what I learned but yeah always just like making the next decision just keep it going so that's when I got in the car I was just like it was awkward car ride too because a two-door Jeep Wrangler they were smushed in the back seat I was driving to Alabama just like all right I have to get out of here right now you're you're currently 25 right yes and when all this happened you know your dad marrying Ashley she was 25 and she was like I'm gonna get out of here I'm gonna get out of here I'm gonna get married she was 23 so you're you're now older than she was when she married your dad yeah how does that make you feel I'm like I don't even think now I want to get married I'm like I'm nowhere near and I think at this point they were married with a child I'm like oh my god like I can't even manage myself I don't know what it was in her mind to think yeah I'm 23 and I can handle a 50 year old husband and a 14 year old girl her reasoning was that she taught ballet classes to younger early teenage year girls so she was like oh I I have experience with them so I'm gonna hand I'm gonna well equipped to handle Eva no I don't think so so yeah I don't know I don't know what person the right mind would think that that's a good idea but do you think your dad went through with the the marriage so quickly because this happened within 13 days they met started dating got engaged and married all within 13 days right yeah do you think that was for religious reasons I think partially yeah um I also think I mean it that's like the only thing in my brain that stuck out because he was very devout Christian and so I think that that was kind of his driving factor with all of that but then I don't know I think she claimed to be a devout Christian too so she just kind of went along with it and was like oh let's get married so you know we can start doing things that we can't do before we're married and um she I yeah I think that was a big big thing for her what was life in that household like at the time because there you and a friend were living there she Ashley and your dad newly married also just met everyone's adjusting you're also grieving you and your dad and then she becomes pregnant shortly after too what's that what's that household like I don't I couldn't tell you it was like the most crazy kind of me and my friend were I was just trying to get through school and normal teenage things like you know I had a crush on a boy and there's friend drama and I also have lacrosse practice that I'm trying to try out for the team this year you know so that was kind of we were both trying to manage our own things and stay on top of our academics and our extracurriculars and then I'd come home and she was you know sitting on the kitchen counter in a bra and underwear so it was just kind of like a really weird adjustment and she was it was fine when she was just trying to be funny and adjusted but then six months down the road when she started feeling like she had a little bit more of a power trip and she was trying to discipline that's when things kind of hit the fan because she was trying to ground me or take my car away I'm I was like you're barely legal to drive at this point you can't you can't take my keys from me okay the bra and underwear thing was that was that like some sort of power trip move to be like I'm the boss I'm I call the shots like I just like I just like walk around and just want to be like I'm the Alpha yeah like I never played football so I wouldn't really know but that's just like my idea I think partially yes I also know that she had I want to say it was histrionic personality disorder which is childlike behaviors but then also over sexualizing themselves so which she did both of those things she had a teddy bear that she would bring around and like oh wow it was like textbook yes yeah like textbook kind of weird behaviors and then also over sexualizing herself in you know she would always why the sexualization with the child like teddy bear I don't know that's just like that's a legit personality disorder yeah I think those are two of the characteristics I also think she weaponized incompetence so she would act kind of like oh I'm so young and you know I don't know how to do things and Doug take care of me and then she wouldn't get her way and all of a sudden she's you know make sure her bra is a little more out than usual she was kind of making sure oh I she always made it a point in the room like oh I'm packing like I have a gun in my pants I have a gun on my bra so it's just kind of like weird a weird power trip where she was like she had all this confidence but then she also acted stupid in a way she was like the t-shirt girl at the Trump rallies right yeah that's so interesting so can you fill us in on that like she she kind of bragged about it a lot which I always found very weird that she was like oh Trump and I are um you know he was worked for him for a little bit and I you know he was like my friend and he called me you know baby girl or something like that she just like made it a point I was just kind of like this is weird I don't know I I was 16 15 16 I was like I don't really care about politics right now like cool dude like I don't care it seems like she kind of made the house like volatile like you know ups and downs but then in reading your your book too like learning about the way that she just completely violated any type of like privacy for you and like any boundary whatsoever it's like she just violated yeah she took down pictures of my mom in my room she went they she was like I want to paint everything in the kitchen black so they painted the cabinets black it was a really dark house it didn't need the extra black features in there because it was already dark enough and I don't know she just kind of like took everything stripped it all down and made it just like a really uncomfortable space from her personality um and also how she just her design choices and her interference with my personal space yeah and she read your journals too right yeah yeah I wrote something about you know I hated her you know I didn't like her and I she read that and that was a huge fight between her and my dad and me how did you know that she read your journal because my dad came to me he was like well you wrote in your journal that you don't like Ashley I'm like why where did you get that information yeah you clearly read my journal we we kind of skipped something for a little bit there because I realized all this happened right after your dad told you that he wasn't going to remarry he wasn't going to you know have kids anymore that that whole conversation took place the night that your mom died right yeah he got the next flight home because he was out of town and I woke up at three in the morning and we kind of sat there and he was like you know I'm here for you I'm gonna be your mom and your dad now if you need anything from me just whatever you need you know it can be anything just come to me about it I don't want there to be any dishonesty or you know however you're feeling I've dealt with this and I'm not gonna be the same person that you are and I'm not gonna be the same person that you are and I'm not gonna be the same person that you are and I'm not gonna be the same person that you are and I'm not gonna be the same person that you are and I'm not gonna be with grief before so he would he really made sure that you know I was taking care of any I knew that I was going to be taken care of at whatever capacity I needed and then he was like I my first question was are you going to get remarried and he said no I mean it was probably three in the morning and he had just had a long flight from wherever he was and so I think he was exhausted and I was half asleep but I don't know why that was my first question and he said no he was like I'm not thinking about that right now no and then that was a lie I guess so you you having such a tumultuous relationship with your stepmom is so vastly different than the relationship you had and I'm guessing still have with your sister-in-law yeah because she moved in shortly after yeah the death of your mom right to kind of like help run the household she my brother was deployed they were they had already sold their house she was looking for to rent somewhere else in the Charleston area so it just kind of made sense because my dad was traveling a lot and I was like I'm not gonna be the same person that she was like even I was getting to the age where I needed to start learning how to go grocery shopping how to clean things properly how to you know and just to have a young female around was really helpful so we became very close and yeah I when my dad was one of his kind of talking points when it came to why he thought Ashley was a good fit was you need a young female around to kind of you know show you the ropes on how to be a young woman and I said no I have my sister-in-law I don't need that role filled because I have her so it was super weird because then also there was a little like two week period of time where Ashley moved in and my sister-in-law hadn't moved out yet and that was just kind of I don't even really I think I blacked out for those two weeks because I mean Ashley just moved in and my sister-in-law was frantically trying to find somewhere to rent at that point because this was all this was sprung on us so fast and that was because your sister-in-law's husband your your brother was deployed overseas right he was either deployed or he was at a base up somewhere and just traveled he was gone a lot so but yes he was gone and she had she needed to find somewhere for them to live for him to come home to so she moved out really fast after that what was their relationship like I don't even really remember I remember my sister-in-law was close with my neighbors because my neighbors were close with my mom and my dad but you know the um miss melody she lived across the street and she was my mom's best friend or one of them and so then my sister-in-law kind of you know went over her to her a lot and they they hung out a lot and I remember at one point my sister-in-law was over there talking to melody and they were talking about Ashley moving in and how weird it was and it was Ashley tried to cook dinner for us at one point and she was a little bit younger than my sister-in-law too so it was just kind of super weird and I I felt like my sister-in-law's very humble and not somebody to try and give to her and she was just kind of super weird and I I felt like she didn't have too much direction or anything so she was just kind of I think quiet and respectful and Ashley was just kind of in your face you know I'm the new girl around here that's kind of the vibe that I got from them and then my sister-in-law moved out and we never really talked about it after that it was just kind of like this weird elephant in the room for a while and it was never addressed do you did you know anything about Ashley's life prior to like her moving into your house nothing other than she told me that she also dealt with losing a parent although her dad never died he just had another family in California so she was like well I she tried to relate to me a lot because she was like my mom was super depressed after my dad moved out and I was basically you know live I was raising my mom at one point or you know taking care of my mom and it was always a sob story you know I always she was always starting to cry and I was just kind of sitting there like okay like this is completely different um but then she also I knew that she was she was a little bit more of a mom and I was like I'm gonna have to get her back I don't know if I found that out when I when she was living with us or until you know the trial but she was engaged before um and that's all I really knew other than her teaching ballet classes or she was a ballerina or something I don't know thank you to ZocTalk for sponsoring this portion of today's episode I have ADHD and so I use ZocTalk to schedule my medicine refill appointments because how it usually happens is I realize like the day of oh shoot I'm out of medicine I should do a same day appointment with ZocTalk and then I go on the app I schedule it for the same day they always have a provider available and they just make it so quick so easy ZocTalk lets you search and compare local in-network doctors they have more than 150,000 providers with 200 plus specialties across all 50 states and appointments happen fast within 72 hours and sometimes even same day appointments we have used ZocTalk over the years for a range of different types of appointments because like Matt said they have so many different types of appointments so many different specialties from mental health to dental health they have so many different things just a typical well visit and like Matt said they even compare in-network doctors your health matters and taking care of yourself shouldn't be complicated ready to be seen head to ZocTalk.com slash unplanned to get started and check that appointment off your to-do list that's Z-O-C-D-O-C dot com slash unplanned so the ballet element does become a big part of the story at least how it was in the media yeah because her and your dad were gonna start a ballet company together yeah it was gonna be the Charleston International Ballet Company which I think that had it been not her doing all of the kind of leading of that it would have been a great concept because they were hiring ballerinas that were kind of cut you know there's this one certain look that everybody wants for about all the high pristine ballerinas yeah you know and so it's it's kind of cutthroat when it comes to like auditioning and stuff and there's a lot of other women that are excluded and so they were going to take those women who are still incredible athletes incredible ballerinas and hire them so I think that it really had a it was a great idea but then she took over so they started this thing my dad found all the investors you know he was a great entrepreneur and business he just knew how to start a business if he had a good idea for it so he kind of pulled everything together started it for her because that was all she wanted and then she became a part of it and I guess the CEO or the COO technically the the vibe that I got from my dad it was the equivalent of giving like a five-year-old crayons to like color at the table so they're not loud you know like iPad time at the table kind of just to shut them up for a little bit because that's all I think my dad just wanted her to be kind of busy or feel busy while she was which is another component I think of her personality disorder because it made her feel entitled to be like well I'm the boss around here you know I I can say and do again 23 and a half years ago I was like oh my god I'm the boss around here you know I can say and do again 23 and a half years ago I was like oh my god I'm did not have the the knowledge to run a business at that capacity I mean they were talking a lot of money and investors and it was a huge deal like millions right over the yeah I could not I'm 25 now running a business I'm like I can't I don't even know how to do it half the time I'm like googling things all the time pulling my hair out like how do I do this and she just thought she could run the whole thing and it did it went downhill very quickly so I mean and then again once my dad he hired somebody that actually knew how to run a ballet and knew how to because they were talking about a reality show at one point so he pulled someone down from New York and he was like all right this is this lady is going to run this now Ashley you can kind of take a beat for a set because we have to make sure you know the investors are getting their returns the ballet the ballerinas are getting paid for yeah um Ashley didn't like that that she was kind of getting somebody to take over and I think that's one of the reasons that she left and dispelled herself and because the day that she dispelled herself was when she was like oh my god I'm like oh my god I'm like oh my god I'm like oh my god the day that she left a note on the bed for my dad so she was pregnant at the time and she said she had been in Florida a lot with her mom because my dad was traveling a good bit and really busy she was having a terrible pregnancy so she went to go get taken care of by her mother and then she I came home one day all of her stuff was gone which she had been out of the house already so I thought it was weird that all of her stuff had just disappeared yeah and I thought maybe her car got stolen I called my dad he started calling the cops and then I found out that she had been on the note and that's the day that she left my dad and then she publicly disavowed herself from the ballet how do you publicly disavow yourself posted on Facebook yeah I disavowed myself from this ballet yeah maybe like an Instagram post or something and that was because she was mad that your dad hired someone who actually knew how to run a ballet I think that was part of it I really do because I mean I never I never really I didn't read the letter I don't know you know I never heard about it but I think she was really just did not like somebody else coming and taking over her position did you you overhear them fighting up like before this all happened or was it we kind of just kept in the dark on everything kind of kept in the dark on everything i knew if there was an argument because 95 of the time i was the topic of discussion or somehow i was involved and i think it was ashley was a little bit jealous of me and my dad's relationship so she would always pick fights with my dad about me which shoved a wedge in between me and my dad obviously there was just a lot of tension um but i mean for the most part yeah i think i don't know she just that was one of definitely one of the reasons did she ever like want you to call her mom no i don't think she ever did request that okay i think i remember my dad accidentally called her renee one time which was my mom's name that was fun but why was that fun i thought it was hilarious because i was it was right after my mom died i was like finally my dad's showing some sort of grief he kind of he was stoic the whole time and he really did hold it together but yeah it felt kind of good that she just came was prancing around and that put her in her place really quick because she i mean that made her so mad and at that point we were in a lot of arguments her and i so to have her just kind of like hey remember there's still a grieving 15 year old and the mom is has a huge you know presence in the household still so i don't know what are some of those other arguments that you've had with your mom that you've had with your mom that you've had i know you already told us about the her taking your mom's picture down in your bedroom the picture well yeah so that was the pictures were gone that really didn't cause an argument i was more just kind of like this is so weird i went to my dad and he just kind of brushed it off and this was actually it was funny because it was in court too this is something i think i had to testify or it was brought up in one of the the things maybe she was testifying but um she had made these shadow boxes with seashells glued into them and then versus written on the back and i have a gazillion seashells i don't need them glued in frames in my room and there was multiple of them so i needed one for i had a rose that my from my mom's funeral that i had dried and i needed to put it in a shadow box and i didn't want to go to the store and get one so i just used one of the seashell ones and she saw that when i'd like taken it apart and put the the rose in there instead and she went to my dad i mean sobbing crying hyperventilating and came my dad came upstairs and he was like you really upset ashley and she was just kind of like sniffling behind him and he was like you need to apologize you need to put the seashell back in the box and i just was kind of like this is a very big reaction for something so little yeah i don't know and it was still i thought it was just weird even at the time that her writing was still on the back the bible verses were still on the back like another piece of her little craft was there that i could appreciate but i just switched the things out you know so i don't know i don't know i was like well if anything it was me trying to combine the two i guess but it's from your mom's funeral yeah like how are you gonna get mad about that but i don't know so that was a big thing um and then that's when i my the girl that lived with us at the time she was about to go to indiana for a church camp and i wasn't going to go and then that was the turning point i think ashley was like well eva needs to go too you know there's so many things going on and i was like well i'm something wrong with her or something so they forced me to go i was having a panic attack about going and she offered me a valium which caused another like i was like i'm 16 i don't need a valium for a panic attack and i went to my dad and i was like she's offering me drugs you know so i don't know it's just constant very high emotion tension at what point were you thinking that there might be a chance that your stepmom would kill your dad i really thought that it would come to that i knew i told my dad at one point that he needs to leave her just because she was trying to get a security clearance taken from him which is was you know a huge his whole job was his security clearance um she got cps involved she got the cops involved you know it was there was just so many things that were taking him down and i'd gone down to florida my dad requested he was like please just come to florida you need to meet your half sister you know come see everybody and i was like okay so i went to florida reluctantly and we were going to the the nighttime christmas eve service she was in a body con dress that went up to her booty cheeks with six inch stilettos i mean it looked like a new year's eve dress that you go to the bars and it's not something that you wear to church service yes what is a body con dress like a tight tight dress it's like okay it's like form fitting yeah okay oh yeah i like it when she wears this yeah exactly yeah it's like church you were yeah it's a church i mean like so that was baby started crying i was overwhelmed and so i stepped out because i was starting to have i was just getting really bad anxiety it was stuffy in there as a mega church there was a lot of people a lot of like bright lights and stuff and so i am i stepped out in the hallway and her mom and her followed me into the hallway and they cornered me and they said are you scared is it are you fearing for your life your dad he killed your mom he's gonna kill you he's gonna kill us all her mom wrote down her number on a sheet of paper and gave it to me and said don't put your my phone number in your phone your dad can hack it and he can find me and kill me i literally said y'all get out like i know like get out of here get away from me this is not i'm not here for you i'm here for my dad i'm here for my half sister and so i didn't really tell my dad the whole story i just kind of said they were bothering me and then it happened again in easter i went back down and they cornered me again and we went to a store and they pushed me like kind of under super loud and my dad i guess couldn't hear me and hard of hearing yeah they told me the same thing you know your dad killed your mom he's gonna kill you he's gonna he's beating us was this the first time that you had ever heard someone say that your dad killed your mom yes yeah just pulling like they're just and what was they weren't even around at that but like how did they did they like did they actually say those words were they like okay look like we have this theory that your dad killed your mom because of this or did they just say like like you mean your dad killed your mom like i was just kind of like where is this coming from i'm sorry and so i again told them like f off get away from me and then i told my dad easter morning because he could tell something was wrong and i was like look this is what happened this happened at christmas i'm not coming here again um and that's when he was like there was a turning point he was like all right that's it i'm gonna leave her i've tried so hard to show her i'm just trying to be a loving husband show her what a true godly man is and be a good father and she just continues to do this to me and i can't figure out why i said okay we're not i'll leave now you stay the baby is on the way and she needs this is her she's at the age now where she might remember opening her easter basket so i'm just gonna go we'll do that or we'll open easter baskets and i'll leave you can come to charleston tomorrow yeah and then he never came to charleston i think again he was with her and the child and he just you know he got roped back in this might be hard for you to guess but if you had a speculate if like ashley and her mom actually believed those things or if they were just trying to manipulate the situation like what do you think i think it was a little bit of both i think they were trying to manipulate the situation i also think that they had started to because her mom was just as crazy as her i think that they had started to believe their own lies a little bit i think they had kind of conspired so much within themselves that eventually that was just like there that has to be you know yeah they couldn't tell the two apart yeah and they also i know ashley tried to get my mom to believe her but she didn't because she didn't believe her mom she got my mom's medical records pulled but then she also tried to get her dug back up to do see i guess if they could do like an autopsy how would she have any get her dug back up her grave taken out how could she as as the new wife have any ability to do that she was crazy she was going to different doctor's offices she got fired from i think it was definitely one it might have been two different doctor's offices because they kept telling her no like what you're looking for you don't have these you know poisons in your body you don't have anything wrong with you the baby is fine and they were just telling her no that there's nothing wrong and so she was like she literally threw a hissy fit in one of the offices and they said you need to get out and then same with the detective in the trial he had testified that she called him it was during a custody case and there was they were going before a judge and she called the detective and she said can you arrest doug in front of the judge so the judge sees that he's a terrible person and she's like no i'm not going to do that person and well i'm the only fit one to be the mother and the detective said no i'm not going to do that and she said basically cussed him out and said well if you're not going to take matters into your own hands then i will and he said i will i've never in my 30 years of service had any anybody do that over the phone to me and say they were going to take matters into their own hands so i don't know i don't know i never got the vibe that she was actually insane enough to somebody's life but i also knew she was just i mean all signs pointed towards it so i just didn't want to believe that that was actually going to be the outcome thank you to noble for sponsoring this portion of today's episode one of my travel rules is to keep your hands free when at all possible that is why we are so excited about the noble bag we love traveling with it first off they built a flip out cup holder right into the luggage total lifesaver in the lines at the gate or when you just need somewhere to put it and then you just need to put it in the bag and then you just need to park your coffee. There's a built-in charging port, so important and there's a front laptop pocket that makes tsa a breeze they have 360 wheels it glides next to you instead of dragging behind you like an anchor and unlike most bags noble has no zipper at all it locks shuts with a latch system that can't be pried open noble is the number one top rated luggage on trustpilot every suitcase comes with a 100 day money back guarantee and free three-day express shipping did we mention that it has a lifetime warranty it's the last suitcase you'll ever need to buy upgrade to luggage that looks better lasts longer and travel smarter head to nobletravel.com for up to 46 off your entire order that's nobl travel.com for up to 46 off after you purchase they will ask you where you heard about them please support our show and tell them our show sent you shortly after this happened and you've received like the second worst the worst news twice now for the second time like like , media got hold of the story pretty quickly like how what was that timeline before it started being dubbed like the black swan murder and like how did that come to be within hours there was a lot of press on it local news and then you know slowly started getting i think within like a week or two i started getting you know media people coming to me and asking you know reporters saying would you make a statement and then i think eventually it did people did an up digging within a month it was kind of done and then i was like oh my god i'm so sorry i'm so sorry i'm so sorry i'm so sorry i'm so dubbed the black swan murder cb like 48 hours was starting to be a thing in in in production so i mean it was it was quick and for people that don't know the full details of what happened can you can you walk us through like what happened that night so they were packing up the u-haul and she he i guess so like 10 minutes before it happened the mother had taken their daughter to a park nearby ashley's mom ashley's mom yeah grandma took the daughter to a park nearby and then i guess my dad she says it was out of self-defense because my dad had body checked her and was being aggressive this entire time okay i don't think that's the case my dad didn't have aggressive bone in his body um and then she he came into a room i think he was been there was one more box and a mattress and it was basically empty and he was turned to the side of the car and he was like oh my god i'm gonna die i'm gonna die i'm gonna die i'm gonna die and he was turned to the side of the car and he was like oh my god i'm gonna die and he was turned to the side of the car and he was like oh my god i'm gonna die and she took the gun and she fired multiple rounds she hit him in it was through the like kind of the back side it was through the side and out the front i think is what it was but it was it was he was clearly turned towards the side and then again through the back of his leg so i mean if like that's kind of where the forensics people during the trial were like okay so he fell he fell and then how did his leg came up in the air and you know like and she claimed that he was just moving all around because he was like in a fighting position and because he was a you know he did jujitsu growing up i guess and a navy pilot just hand-to-hand combat stuff but that was kind of her claim and um so she shot him he i think she waited around 15 minutes to go over to the neighbor's house and the police had already been notified because the neighbor had heard the gunshots and then once she got there you can hear her i guess there was another phone call she um was in the background the neighbor was doing all the talking her lawyer was already on the scene before the detectives even showed up and then yeah my dad he i i think that she waited a little bit because she was waiting for him to not be able to speak um and he i think died within an hour or two and yeah that was that i was notified the next day and then yeah that was kind of it does that feel like a long time like to be notified as the daughter so i have no reference of how long it should have been i think i remember the detective telling me that ems wanted me to know that my dad was really trying to stay strong so i think he fought for a little bit afterwards and then i don't think that any family was notified till the next day i think that they were probably trying to figure out who he is who needs to get called well his the next person his emergency contact ashley was that's probably in you know arrested so or she was i think you know she was arrested shortly after they were taken to the station um and then yeah i mean i found out the next morning or like around lunchtime the next day so yeah and you'd been texting him you've been trying yeah and you had said like was there any part of you that had any type of instinct that you think that something was wrong yes and i was being told by my friends by my sister-in-law who i told i was like i'm kind of worried my dad normally sent me a bible verse every single morning like 4 35 in the morning so i didn't get a bible verse that morning i woke up texted him hey is everything okay because normally it was like he sent the bible verse i'd wake up an hour or two later i text him he'd call me we talked about what we were going to do or i was going to do for the day and he hadn't said anything so i text him good morning and then an hour later still nothing then another hour went by still nothing and so eventually i started to worry a little bit and my friends knew that i mean the same thing had happened with my mom i texted her a bunch she didn't answer and i was like i'm gonna call my mom i'm gonna call my mom i'm gonna call my dad and my dad knew that too so everybody even you know highest most important government people in the world he would be in a meeting with them and if i had an issue where i was like i need to reach you right now he knew to say hey i just need to tell my daughter i'm in a meeting so he everyone was like well maybe he's just in a meeting and i'll get back to him like even if he was there's a chance i called him so many times i text him so many times it had been since seven in the morning it was 10 o'clock now i he would have responded by now and so i told my sister-in-law she said again it's just anxiety everything's probably fine um i was starting a shift at a coffee shop that was in the neighborhood my sister-in-law lived in so i drove over to her house right before that shift started and we were just kind of sitting there and my uncle had texted me hey eva are you like is every what did he say he was like hey eva how are you doing or do you have time for a phone call which i'm not very we weren't very close at the time so it was kind of weird for him to say that and so i immediately called him and he had already had patched in my dad's cousin on the phone as well i heard them kind of talking have you told her yet what's going on i said what happened there's something wrong and i know it and they were like their dad's been in an accident he's been shot and i said is he dead and then they said yes and then he said i was like did ashley do it and they said yes and then i mean after i just kind of hung up and i looked at my sister and i said i don't have parents anymore and then i called them back five minutes later because i was like oh my gosh it's the 28th rent's due in three days so i had to call them and say hey my dad pays my rent i don't i don't know what to do so yeah that was that did you were you in tears right away were you in just an utter shock you didn't even know how to feel i cried immediately and then within five minutes so i i hung up i put my phone away on the table and my sister-in-law she had her newborn on the couch put the newborn next to her and i went and crawled in her lap i was like i just didn't know what to do and then i had plans with my friends that night and so they were all already at it was kind of a few streets over from her house they were already there and i called my former boss and i said hey or i didn't even i couldn't even talk because i knew i had that shift starting in 20 30 minutes she knew my sister-in-law because she went to high school with my brother so my sister-in-law called my former boss and said hey there's been an accident so for like six months working at that job everybody just thought my dad died in a car until they kind of picked up why do you keep talking about murder and then she was like oh my dad was murdered did y'all not hear about that and they were like no biz just said that there was an accident um so yeah i called or she called said i wasn't coming in and then i called back i said i i kind of just like locked in i said i need to figure out rent i don't have any money and then i called my friends i said hey are y'all still there um they said yeah just come over so i drove i mean i could barely hit my the foot the gas pedal because my legs were shaking so bad drove over there very slowly and i sat down on the porch and they could tell something was wrong they said what's going on i said ashley killed my dad and they were like all right what are we doing tonight what's the plan what do you want to do and they just kind of immediately took over and just carried me through the next two weeks that burden of finances immediately like you worrying about rent just uh breaks my heart that you also became responsible for your dad's estate right like for paying like the mortgage on the house they start reaching out to you right yeah so i there was no basically the will was like he there was it was interesting because there was two copies of the will one was dated before and there was two and one the old one had ashley eva gets everything in his handwriting ashley gets nothing and then there was another one i guess after that and so that was i guess when she had left my dad so we found that and then i was supposed to get the house and you know all the things whatever my brothers were going to get stuff too um and then we kind of realized i was the only person it was like ashley doug and then eva been a field were the only people listed on the house mortgage paperwork or whatever yeah my dad had taken on a second mortgage on the house and was completely underwater with it he had basically no money left when all he had was his kind of stocks and and whatever investment money that like i still you know it's not like those were immediate returns yeah um so and i knew even if those did have a return on them, it would be years before I saw that. But yeah, I had to, somebody tried to serve me for, I guess what was owed on the house or the taxes or something for hundreds of thousands of dollars. And then I just remember seeing that letter and be like, Oh my God, what do I do? Um, and then what did you do when you got served? I went to a yoga class. I, my dad's high school sweetheart was a yoga teacher and I was very close with her at this point that, you know, I'd been a couple months since. And I, I didn't know her until after my dad passed, she had reached out. She was one of those people that reached out. Um, and she started doing, she had had a yoga studio. So I went to her class and she was like, Eva, you just seem very closed off. What's going on? And she pulled me into her office and she was also a practicing lawyer. And she looked, I showed her the paperwork and she looked at them and immediately she knew my dad's brothers too. Got all of them on the phone. And I mean, she's the most gentle, sweet, Southern belle. She's the most gentle, sweet, Southern belle. And she's the most gentle, sweet, Southern belle you would ever meet. I have never heard her ring somebody out, like ream them out, you know, over the phone. Like you, Eva is here and you, Wes and David, y'all have to get, you know, Eva is, she's a young girl. And she started yelling at them over the phone. Like she, she can't take care of the estate. You have to do something. My brother was the executor of the will and he didn't want anything to do with this after. I mean, my dad, he had no relation to my dad. And at that point it was kind of an elephant in the room of what had happened. And I was like, they didn't really ever talk about it with me. My brother wasn't doing anything with the estate. And so he signed everything over to my uncle and because I was the contact points for all these people and everything, but then I wasn't actually in control of the paperwork because I was, I guess I was so young when my dad made that will that I couldn't be, I don't know. But yeah, that was kind of that. And then as far as everything else, there was no life insurance or anything. I dug through so much paperwork for years. And I was like, I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I was trying to find any kind of scrap of evidence that my dad had life insurance and he did at one point, but he had stopped paying the premium like four months before he died. So that was really annoying to see that. But I hindsight, I'm grateful that I didn't get just a large sum of money handed to me right after. Cause I think I would have turned out completely differently. Why, why do you think you would have been different? I would have been, I mean, when I was, I went through, I, when ghost cowboy started making more money and I was not used to it, I was like, I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I mean, it was like, it went viral so fast. I wasn't used to making that kind of money compared to my hourly barista job. I've got very irresponsible very quickly. And I started going down an entirely wrong path. I started hanging out with the wrong people, doing drugs, drinking a lot, like not the person that I needed to be. And luckily I got out of that stage, but I think I would have turned into another little, you know, old, not old money, but just a little trust fund kid. Yeah. I got, got a couple million dollars in, in life and insurance and just kind of effed off. I was going to ask you about that. Like, did you feel this huge urge right when you got the horrible news to just go get super drunk or like, just, yeah. Like did you turn to, did you have any vices that you turned to at that time? I mean, yeah, I was drinking a lot that first year. I think it was more just typical 21 year old socialization at that point. 20 year old. So no, I was, as I was 20 at that point, like 2021, those first two years, like, Oh, if you're 18, you can drink, you can drink a beer. Yeah. Like even though the law is different, I feel like the Southern people are like, yeah, it's fine. It's okay. Yeah. We were 16. Like it was okay. As long as it was in the house, you know, parents had the keys, but, um, yeah, I, 19, 20, I then started ghost cowboy. I think I'd freshly turned 21. So at that point, I was legally drinking and I could go out and spend my money how I wanted to. And ghost cowboy is also taking off. I just started hanging out with the wrong crowd. Um, for about a year, I was just not doing the things that I should have been doing. And, you know, it was great because ghost cowboy was going viral. So I didn't have to put in a lot of work to make the money and really run the business. And then the end of 2022, I kind of, I had this one terrible, terrible, terrible night, woke up the next day, super hungover. And I was like, that's it. I'm done. I need to get my together. I, cause I, I used to be like a runner and I played lacrosse such a clean eater, you know, that was just kind of my way of life for so long. And I just put that on the back burner and was out of control. So I found a little house on all palms on Facebook marketplace. And it was like, it's a beach shack. It is just, you know, the bare minimum of a house, but I sold, I had bought a two 1978 F 100 that I was rebuilding with some of the money that I had been making from ghost cowboy. And I had rebuilt it enough that I could sell it for a profit. So I sold it for a profit because I, it was too expensive to break my lease in the apartment I was in, which was also a terrible apartment. And I think that was kind of contributing to just this depressed hole that I was in. And I, so I sold that F 100. I had two months or three months worth of rent for both apartments. And then I eventually moved into the house and like just had the other apartment for three months. And then I got my old friends, not all of my old friends, like some of my friends that, you know, I was, it was like two friend groups, the friend group that I was with when I found out about my dad and we went out, they're still very close, good friends, but it was this other crowd. And so the party crowd, you had to like cut them off because it wasn't good for you. Yeah. I mean, like completely ghosted them and just kind of went and I got back in shape. I quit drinking for a while, you know, that was kind of, I just like whipped myself into shape and then exercise turned into a vice, a huge vice. That's awesome. Yeah. I mean, I mean, exercise is really is a good thing. Yeah. Oh yeah. I started distance running after my mom passed away. I got really into it. And then obviously I kind of fell off the wagon there for a little bit, but that's when I, I think 2022 is when I really discovered marathon training and like I distance running when I was in high school, right after my mom died was like six miles max, but I started getting to eight and 10 and you know, all of a sudden I was able to do a full marathon. And I think that turned into the workload of that and ghost cowboy and really learning. Cause then all of a sudden I also had this lawsuit with my former kind of business partner, um, that he screw that guy. I'm sorry. I don't, I don't know this person. I was like reading that in your book and I'm like, who, what type of person sues someone while they're going to trial because their dad got murdered. Oh, yeah. Okay. That's still like, it was better, but like still awful because I was having to like pay all this money for these attorneys and I wasn't paying myself. And then I was going to a murder trial and like, I eventually, he settled and you know, everything's fine out. There are some crazy things that I can tell you. I'm not legally allowed to talk about it, but like, you don't want to mess around with the law, which you've, I mean, you've gosh, going to court and trial and you've spent so much time in front of, thank you. I've been wearing the same maternity pieces for so long. My old clothes don't quite fit and look right. Want to go shopping, but I don't have any free hangers. And that is why I have loved using Vented. Vented is such a great solution. It helps you clean out your closet and earn some extra money. Vented is a secondhand app that makes it easy for everyday sellers to sell pre-loved fashion and earn some extra money. There are no seller fees and the app is free to download. Listing items on Vented is quick and simple and once an item sells, Vented creates a prepaid shipping label just for you. I have sold items from my closet on Vented and I just love that I get to give them a new life because I have so many pieces that are genuinely in great condition. They're just not serving me in the season I'm currently in. So it's time for them to move on and live a second life in someone else's wardrobe. And it's also really fun to shop and they make it so simple and user-friendly. So if you're ready to clean out your closet and make some extra money, definitely download the Vented app for free and start listing. With no seller fees. You keep every dollar you earn. You casually mentioned the media and how big that was, all that media attention. Can you walk us through what that was like to wake up and you have CNN, TMZ, all these different media outlets. I think you mentioned the Hollywood Reporter in your book. Just everyone's at your doorstep wanting you to make a comment on the case and the trial. What was that like? It was bizarre. I think I got really frustrated because I was so overwhelmed and it immediately felt like a cash grab for everybody else, kind of profiting off of this huge story. And it was, I mean, I was fine with speaking about it because I think it gave me an opportunity to like get back at her. She wasn't in jail yet right after everything happened and she, you know, the trial wasn't going to happen for a while. So any chance I could get where I'm like, well, maybe she would see this and she would, you know, know that I'm fighting for my dad. Um, but at the same time there was instances where either, you know, there was a, a re an article that I met with this reporter and she took my words and twisted them. And it was like, I was just, I was frustrated when I saw the article came out and that was my first real taste of like journalism and journalists. How did she twist your words? She tried to paint it super political, which I just, again, I'm not a political person and I was like, my dad was murdered and you're trying to make this about politics because because of his affiliation with the Republican Party. yeah so that was like I think that was really frustrating and then you know I but I at the same time it was I just kind of compartmentalized and and put my head down and did it you know and I think that's kind of I just kind of had to say okay feelings on the back burner let's let's just I'm gonna do what I need to do to get through it so that same it was just kind of a crazy experience but I learned a lot very quickly with it were they trying to act like the the murder was was kind of like oh well of course this happened since there were they both had guns like was it kind of like that there was one well the the one where they twisted my words yeah she basically it was it wasn't even about a lot of it was kind of giving the backstory of my dad's political affiliation okay and you know they said some she said something about trump and I think it was like god's guns and ballet or something was the title of it I can't really remember that was like a phrase that was used in it and I just remember thinking like that's not what this is I thought this was about I thought this was about like you know what happened and and then she said something along the lines of us we had his his um service outside we spread his ashes on the beach and it was during covid peak covid so it was everybody was outside you know some people wearing masks some people weren't it just kind of you know show up if you want to show up totally and she twisted that into like we didn't care about covid or something or we were just like I was like what about that is necessary to talk about yeah we can't have an outdoor service for my my dad that we just murdered yeah also in like when we were on the beach it's windy like I don't know covid wasn't really the forefront of our mind at that point I don't even remember what she asked me where she got that narrative but when I read it I was like oh my god like she's making me look so politically affiliated and like that's not what I'm trying I'm trying to get justice for my dad and fight Ashley because she's not in prison yet and I was like I don't know what to do with her I want people to know how bad she is that makes me wonder too like as someone that was prominent in this like big media attention true crime case like what is your take on the true crime industry essentially that has like developed I think I mean first of all it's taken off so much in the last few years yeah and I think I was kind of I mean I know it's been big forever in the last five or six years I was kind of at that the cusp of its like upcoming on social media all the netflix documentaries and that's like the even because I know from behind the scenes getting talking to producers and talking to people that are trying to greenlit documentaries all the time um it you know it just it's really popular like though this will sell so fast because everybody wants a piece of it this will sell so fast and because true crime is so big right now and your case is huge um but I mean it's just I think it's good to shine light on certain scenarios and show people you know like Ashley she was she cried wolf she was trying to say it was domestic violence she I think took kind of the spotlight from a lot of women who are actually in severe scenarios it also you know gave me a reason to say hey you know my dad had no one to turn to his mental health was bad let's talk about how like men's mental health even if he was you know raising his voice at one point he had nowhere to turn to because it's it's kind of typical men don't really talk about their feelings and you know um so it kind of shines a light I felt like it's it's a positive thing because it's shining light on different scenarios that really need to be talked about but at the same time it's so weird even right now with the few big trials going on and people just get very parasocial with true crime like their attorneys and you know everybody in the case and you know like they're speculating all of these things online it's like that's not actually is what what's happening in the courtroom you're not there you don't know what's going on you don't know what the jury's looking at like you can't see them on tv um so I think it's just it's really frustrating to see people get so involved in parasocial and I don't know I mean it's also everything is taken out of context when court cases are shown on tv I've made like a side eye at one point when Ashley was testifying and it it screen grabbed immediately and I was like oh my god what's going on what's going on what's going on what's going on what's going on what's going on people were saying that I was being a brat in the courtroom I was so disrespectful to Ashley and I was like I was laughing at something because my my dad's high school sweetheart made a joke and I thought it wasn't even about Ashley on stand it was about something to do with me and I laughed a little bit and then people took that put it on on the every chat room that you could find like with this little brat and I'm like are you kidding me I can't win with anything and your social media became a topic in the courtroom as well right yeah I got admonished for by the judge for posting a tiktok um it wasn't anything to do with what people were saying in the trial or you know but I understand you know I I said I testified I didn't say anything about anything else and I also there was a reporter that came up to me at the end of that day and or the the night before and I was just kind of like briefly interaction with this reporter but somebody from her team saw me speaking with this reporter and I was still under oath technically I wasn't supposed to be in the courtroom at all but because I was a victim of the crime I got to be in the courtroom because it was my dad so the judge made sure I knew that saying hey you're not allowed to talk about this still technically you're still under oath you can't go and say anything and then if she was testifying I'd had to step out of the courtroom because they didn't want the jury to think that like it was conflicting because I was supposed to come back in the rebuttal which I did um so they didn't want kind of my testimony to be in the to conflict with hers I guess because I had heard hers and then I'd come back in the rebuttal and like say something that went against what she said I don't know so I was under oath speaking to the reporter in the hall just briefly I don't even think they had they were recording or anything and her team saw that and then I posted a funny TikTok saying well I just testified in my dad's murder trial and my crush is back home watching and I mean it blew up immediately and so I got called back on stand because of the reporter scenario and I was getting questioned by her attorney and he brought up my TikTok and he said we'll pull out your phone and that's when the judge was like all right no now we're badgering stop like this wasn't even about her social media this is about her talking to the reporter and then he kind of gave me a slap on the wrist and I went home that day I was like I don't want to do that anymore I've been on stand too much how many days did this go on for two weeks 10 days did you try to make contact with Ashley at all or like eye contact with her? contact during yes um she wouldn't look at me she would either look at her floor or like me scribbling something on her paper and then before the trial even started I don't think I was legally allowed to make contact with her okay um especially after the pre-trial but yeah that was I really did try it and so I didn't get the opportunity to kind of say my piece because obviously I could only testify as to what they asked me on stand um and then I also wasn't allowed to talk to the I wanted to save every I was I knew I was actively writing the book so I was like well I have all the things I want to say that I can't you know give it out right now um so I waited to kind of say my piece with her in my victim's impact statement and I actually got to watch that that they posted it on it's on YouTube but the thing that surprised me which I don't know a lot about the rules of court and like I'm sure you know way more than you want to know at this point yeah I guess but they interrupt you a lot yeah that was a lot of fun I was like I don't know what to do I don't know because they were going off of murder one which this was not a murder one case um I guess it was the the rules that they were going off of really didn't apply to this trial so it was kind of frustrating that he was kept butting in I wasn't supposed to speak directly to her and I kept acknowledging her in my impact statement and so that's why he kept stopping me and then I guess some of it was like I don't even know like the I don't it I wasn't supposed to speak directly to her and so because I was acknowledging her it he made me stop and then that's when Suzanne O'Donnell came up and kind of read through before I said anything else and she's like just take out that part and so I took it out why in my opinion should you be able to say whatever you want to her at that point for your victim impact statement I thought too but I got like every banger that I had written in there like I got it got it in there so at least I got a couple punches in what was what was the punch that they made you take out that you wanted to say I can't even honestly I don't remember it was I think it had to do with her treating me which technically wasn't how that impacted like her crime impacted me that was just how she personally impacted me so that's kind of the conflicting thing god gosh it's a good thing I'm not the judge because I'd be like let her say her piece I know like I had to judge why it was like he was I thought he was really fair so I was really happy with him but at the same time I was like I thought we were friends now like she just got convicted of murder like her man was like I don't know I don't know I don't know I don't know let me just say my thing yeah thank you to Osea for sponsoring this portion of today's episode how often are we sold so many promises from skincare they're over promising and under delivering let's be honest when it really just needs to be clean and simple when it comes to skincare that is why I am so excited that I found my holy grail for my skin that is Osea's clean seaweed powered skincare from the sea I personally have been loving their hyaluronic acid serum for after the shower it doesn't feel heavy or sticky or gooey at all it's just so good on my skin it's still like over 100 degrees in Arizona so I need to be able to wear shorts with confidence I love love the way that Osea makes my skin look, especially after a nice good shave. And for 30 years, Osea has stayed consistent with clean, clinically tested skincare from the sea. Their hyaluronic body serum is made for everyday use or when your skin is in need of revival. It is cooling, refreshing, weightless, and powerfully hydrating. They use an artisanal process that infuses vitamins, minerals, and antioxidants, and it's bottled at peak potency for a silky smooth full body glow. Go to OseaMalibu.com and get 10% off your first order with code UNPLANNED. That's O-S-E-A Malibu.com code UNPLANNED. So she was sentenced to 20 years. Yeah. And then 10 probation. Yeah. Are you, do you feel like that's justice served for your dad? I mean, obviously I would like her behind bars forever. Um, but I think it was considering she could have walked away, not guilty at all. And so, um, I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. So I honestly, that trial, just waiting for the trial and the trial itself and the pre-trial, I mean, the pre-trial was diagnosed with PTSD afterwards because of how just in, I saw autopsy pictures of my dad that I was not supposed to see. Um, and I went to a psychiatrist just cause I was like, I need somebody now, like somebody needs to help me. Um, and then the trial anticipating it, going through it, and then it being done, I was like, you know what? She is in prison for 20 years and that is good with me. As long as this is behind me, I'm good. Um, and then she actually was working time off and back in this past January assaulted a correctional officer and got put in solitary confinement and then got moved into a different prison and got all of her time put back on. So yeah, so it really just goes to show like she is insane. It wasn't just this one time act. Like she went and she didn't get her way, I guess, in court or in prison and hit a cop. Wow. Yeah. You just casually mentioned though that she could have like gotten off. Was there actually a chance that she was going to get off scot-free? I mean, yeah, she would have been found not guilty or I guess it would have been, um, like the stand your ground. Yeah. Well, stand your ground was the hearing the pretrial and then she would have been found. It was either manslaughter, murder too, or, um, self defense. So she would have been like, it was not guilty by self defense. Um, but the, stand your ground law was pulled in for the pretrial because it was either she was saying, Hey, get off my property and defending her property. So she had a right to attack. Um, or it was, it was murder trial. So it ended up obviously getting ruled to be a murder trial, but then I guess the three options were manslaughter, murder too, or self defense. It seems like you have peace with, with the verdict, but like as an outsider looking in, why is it like, I don't know, 20 years is a long time, but still I'm like, she killed your dad. Like why is she not away for life? I guess, I guess it's just all the different specifics of that night and what happened is why she's not. Yeah. I think there was like, I mean, there wasn't, and I think it was premeditated, but there wasn't enough evidence to point towards that. So it was like, there was just so much evidence that either it wasn't substantial enough or because of the way the trial fell with, you know, the state, it just, it didn't, those, the cards didn't lay right, I guess. And so, um, yeah, I mean, as long, I, I was just at that point, just content that she got anything. Cause again, she was playing the domestic violence kind of battered wife syndrome card, which I didn't think was fair to all the other women. But then also, I mean, she was like, there was, you know, a chance that the jury would have played into that and they would have said, Oh, it was self-defense. So I was just kind of worried that they were going to take her, her bait. So you, when you heard about the correctional officer, like the incident, and then her getting time added on, is there someone letting you know, as, as a direct victim of like the crime that put her away, letting you know, or you're just hearing it? Somebody comments, trial updates on my Instagram. I don't know. You're kidding. You're like, thank you. Which again, it's like, I was grateful in that moment that they did that, but kind of goes back to people get really parasocial with these true crime cases. And so she's had commented multiple times about different things that had happened along the way. And then I found out sure enough from she commented, I was like, that's not true. So I Googled it and it was in a Reddit thread. I found the paperwork in a Reddit thread. And I was like, oh, that's not true. And I was like, so people like are finding, I don't know how they find these things so fast, but yeah. See, in my head, I'm like, I like with justice, I'm like, they're going to let everyone know, like the person that they put away is like, cause don't they like sometimes let people know if they're like switch prisons or it's probably only in certain types of cases. I didn't get that email. Yeah. In my head, I'm like, I wish that they could just inform you all the time. Like she's still like, I did get updates a lot with that. The whole system and they would send me emails, but then after a while, I mean, once she got put in prison, there really wasn't other than the appeal. I got notified with her appeal. And then I think when it got denied or when it was no longer within the timeframe that she had to submit all the paperwork for it, get approved it. I got an email then. And then yeah, any update after that, it was just. You're like, I have ghost cowboy customer service. Yeah. No, but people also DM or message ghost cowboy about it too. Somebody emailed me and said she saw either the case or she saw my book or something. And she was like, I went to high school with your mom. I'm back in, you know, wrong. It's just like some sweet old Florence lady. She's like, I was a few years older than your mama, but I have pictures of her in my yearbook. And she sent me my mom's pictures. And I was like, this is the craziest customer service email I've ever gotten. It was like a response to a marketing thing too. It wasn't even like, like, I guess I had sent out a blast email and she just responded to one of them, which half the time I don't respond to those, but it jogged her memory. Yeah. Yeah. It's like, this is really crazy. And I think, I think my favorite thing about your brand is just the beautiful story behind the name ghost cowboy. Can you explain that for people? So, I mean, I say that it has to do with my dad and all of that. I was trying to set, sorry. I was trying to set you up. I've heard you on podcasts where you're like, you're like, I literally just made that like name up. I think there is like a quote somewhere online where people are like, Oh, it's because her dad was, you know, he's Texas. Like ghost now or something. No, I pulled the name out of nowhere. I was like, I have to have, have a domain within, you know, I was giving myself ADHD brain. Like I was going to just go ham on the details. I was like, that's literally not important. And I think it was just like a random goat, like name generator or something. Like I just like ghost cowboy, boom, that's it. Domain name bought. And then it just went from there. And then my book ghost girl, that was not my decision either, but it worked out well. Yeah. All right. Marketing. Cool. Right. Yeah. And then people will hear about your storefront and your, and like all the, all the cool shirts that you make because I already picked out my several. I'm like, I can't wait to send them to me. Absolutely. No, the one I love is to support your local library. I think that was so cute. Your style is so cool. Thank you. I mean, it's really just cause I didn't, I knew how to draw and I didn't know how to do graphic design, but I wanted to make graphic t-shirts. So I was like, I'm going to do a graphic design. And then I was like, I just started drawing stuff and putting it on t-shirts and it worked out, I guess. That's amazing. Yeah. What's been the, the overall response so far to the book? Everybody is very positive. I wouldn't say there's one, the only thing that people, I think one Goodreads review that I got was too much young slang. I was like, well, I I'm 25. I was 21 when I started writing this. So a little bit, but, um, no, it's been an immense amount of good feedback. And so many people have said, I mean, I didn't realize, obviously I knew that a lot of people go through grief in very different ways and different scenarios, but so many people have said that I put grief into words that they were feeling, but never able to kind of vocalize, which felt really good. Cause I think that's how I felt for so long. And just to know, I kind of struck a chord with so many people and resonated with so many people. It's been really, really great. I read it on my Kindle and I was like, there's so many things I was highlighting because I was like, it's so like the way that you are able to just like paint pictures to emotions is like, I mean, I know I'm not the first to tell you this, but this book is, is so well-written. You would have thought that you were, this was your thing that you do. Like you write books and this was not your first book. I dropped out of school. Like I don't know what I'm doing. It was so beautiful. Thank you. And like, and also I love the way like young slang, but your voice was so like, so present in it too. Like it was just, it was so easy to read, but then also just like there was a depth to it that was very surprising. And just, there's so many things I'm like, I'm going to go back and look at my highlights often. Cause it was just so, thank you. So there's so many things that stood out to me that I'm like, I'm going to remember that part about your story. Thank you. Yeah. I just, I feel like I was trying to make it seem like a phone call to a friend just cause I'm such a casual person. And I do, I know I have emotional depth, but then I also, I know how to like, kind of put it into words in a way that, you know, it, it's less of an impact or it's not as, cause sometimes being very vulnerable is really, really scary for a lot of people. So I think if you can do it in a casual way where it still has the same impact, but you feel like you're really kind of sympathizing and empathizing with so many people, I think it makes it a lot easier to kind of, for people to process their emotions because, you know, even I still have like this emotional side of me that I'm scared to kind of open that can of worms. And so, I have to do it in a way in my brain that makes it just way more casual. Yeah. I guess with all the different avenues, your art, your book, it seems like you're able to express your emotions in other ways and, you know, laugh about the crazy stuff that's happened to you rather than sit in this like this place of why me and, you know, get stuck in life. So I respect that a lot. Thanks. I think it's really cool too how you've cultivated an audience that is like, like you said earlier, like uniquely – I'm having a hard time with my brain sometimes. No, you're good. You're good. You just had a baby three weeks ago. I know. I'm like – You're a rock star in my life. You're so nice. Yeah. Let me – it's going to come. Just one second. Oh, it came to me. I remember you writing in your book about how there's – like say you had lost your parents when you were like 10 or 11 or younger, you know. Everything would have been taken care of for you. Right. But you were like 19 – like freshly adult, like legal adult and it seems like there's like a gap in the system of like these – like, you know, you're technically an adult but you're just still getting on your feet. Yeah. And like I guess like what would you like to see changed or what would you like – what would you like for people that are in your similar situation where they're like finding themselves like as an orphan but as an adult? Like, you know, this gap that's in this young adulthood period. I mean, first of all, you're allowed to make the orphan jokes even if you're technically of legal age and not technically an orphan anymore. Yeah, I just want to say that. Yeah, like you're totally allowed to. It's fine. I still do. It's just – I mean, it's scary but being an adult is scary too. Even if I had both of my parents now, I would still probably be freaking out all the time. I know a lot of my friends are coming out – I'm 25. We're about to turn 26. They're like, oh my gosh, I have to figure out health insurance next year. So it's just like it's kind of – it's scary no matter what. So no matter what, you know, even if you are kind of dealt these cards where it makes it a little bit harder, it's only going to make you so much stronger on the other side. Because now I'm, you know, talking to my best friend about, okay, well, here's what you need to do to, you know, when you get off of your parents' phone bill or they're looking – I know somebody is looking at financing a truck or looking to go buy a truck. And I'm like, okay, well, here's how I did it. My credit score wasn't great but, you know, here's how I did it. It worked out for me. Or just like any of these scenarios where you're kind of supposed to have a parent to guide you or an adult to guide you and you don't, if you figure it out, you're going to be so much further ahead than your peers. And now I get to help all of my friends and, you know, family that are kind of at that stepping stone. Yeah. Is there any particular thing like when you like look ahead in your life, like this part – particularly stings the most because you've now found yourself like 25 and parentless like is there any like tender point that you're like this this is particularly bad when you think about just the last 10 years or like kind of moving forward moving forward honestly now that i'm getting to the age where everyone is starting to get married and engaged i think about how i don't have parents to like not i don't really care about funding the wedding but being at the wedding just these big milestones that i have to look forward to still they're not here to share with me and like i my dad taught me how to paint and draw and he i wanted to be an illustrator and own my own business from as little as i could hold a pencil you know so for me to be doing all these things that i wanted to do growing up and he kind of was paving the way and teaching me and showing me how to you know do he i knew what a domain name well i don't know what go daddy was at like 12 years old the website where you can buy a domain because my dad taught me all these things and so that's awesome so the fact that i'm doing it now and like i'm not they're not here to share these moments with me kind of stings a little bit and then i mean yeah that would probably be my biggest thing is like just the big milestones to come and my parents aren't going to be there but i mean it's okay i think that everything in my brain i've always said this is everything happens for a reason so i haven't quite figured out the reason i especially didn't know right when it all started to happen but i think that's the biggest thing that i've been but i'm still kind of now i'm looking back i'm like oh i think i think this was my reason i think helping so many people is my reason is the reason that this all happened yeah i mean i think you have to you have to turn your pain into purpose yeah right um and it's so funny i i love that you said everything happens for a reason because i feel like if someone would have told you that right when everything was happening probably wouldn't have wanted to hear that then but here you are saying it why are you so why yeah why are you saying it my dad i don't know why i'm saying it my dad told me that so i mean i had a bit of like a catastrophize diva way growing up like oh my gosh this is the worst thing ever to happen to me you know and my dad would always be like eva everything always works out everything happens for a reason you know he kind of made me think about there was i remember just one scenario where i think i had a crush on a boy and you know i was like 17 and it wasn't going the way i wanted it to and he was like when have you ever what he said it in a way that it was so profound and now i'm like i had a crush on a boy and he was like when have you ever wanted something and didn't either get that thing or something better and i was like i kind of thought i was like i've always gotten what i wanted whether it be what i actually wanted or something better it kind of came about in a different way that's it's always worked out and my dad drilled that into my head and just my parents growing up to be grateful i mean my mom made me write out three things that i was grateful for every single day my mom did a little thing with me in growing up where we had a lot of things that i was grateful for and i was grateful for two flowers in the house one was on one side of the house one was on the other side both got equal amounts of sunlight both we had to water every single day one i would say mean things to one i would say nice things to and she showed me look the the mean flowers is dying because your energy and your words have impact so i just knew when everything happened in my head i was like all right they taught me everything happens for a reason everything always works out and just to speak positivity and you're gonna have a lot more things to be grateful for and you know have more of a reason to move forward than to just sulk and and focus on the negative i feel like you have the ultimate candy salad line um i i love those videos where people just trauma dump and do the candy salad on tiktok that people are in my comments anytime i start with like oh my mom died and then my dad was murdered all the comments are and i brought the gummy worms oh yeah yeah that's kind of how it feels i love that yeah i love that and and like i mean really the the way that i first saw like your your videos was was on tiktok it was it was just the it's it's such it's such a powerful like line to hear you say yeah my mom died when i was 14 and then uh nine months later my dad made it married a 23 year old and then five years later after that she murdered him yeah and then you just like get into whatever your video is and every time i'm just like holy there was one that's like it's kind of picking up now where it's like here's um i said and then i was like and here's my outfit i was like i don't know yeah it's kind of i mean i feel like i'm kind of numb to it at that point but and it's more of a joke and i think people if they don't know me and they see that they're like what the hell is this girl talking about then people that know me are like i was just eva she's just making a joke it's fine so have you ever met someone that has had like an a similar effed up past to you yes you have you would be shocked at those parents are murdered no i'm not kidding i there was a hurricane not last year two years ago and so my friend and i we both live on well she actually lives in africa now but when she lived on all palms she lived right down the road she would ride her bike over and you know stop and get like a case of whatever at the liquor store and it was a hurricane party that's like a deal hurricane parties or a thing oh my god yeah are you kidding keg one time in high school oh my god yeah i thought you're supposed to like evacuate and take shelter not that's if you're not from like so okay in charleston specifically there's this cow that spins it's the coburg cow and it's like this huge cow statue and it's for like the coburg milk company and when the coburg cow comes down that's when you know it's going to be like a pretty decent storm but yeah hurricane parties everyone's just like all right we're off work the roads are flooded because they flood so easily so let's just party so we were all and my friend one of my very good friends she was like oh my friend from high school is coming over you're gonna love her and she has a crazy story too i'll let her she knows your story but i'll let her tell you hers and she told me she was like we all started drinking making spritzes on the porch and she was like she was like yeah so my brother was murdered and like i've met multiple people since then that it's like pretty relative i was sitting at a restaurant the other day with my boyfriend's mom and she had a girl that like she kind of knew and somehow like they they were like ran into each other and we were talking my book had just come out and so we were kind of celebrating i was about to come out and she was like oh what's your book about and i said it's a coming of age memoir and the girl was like oh um i i told her like the brief synopsis of the story of what happened to me and she was like that's insane my mom my dad was murdered by my stepmom as well like and i mean this was and even my boyfriend's mom was like i didn't know that she was murdered by my stepmom and she was like i didn't know that about her because she doesn't really talk about it but i had just shared so she decided to share her story so yeah people i run into people all the time and they have crazy murder stories wow yeah yeah you probably hear about it I mean I'm sure people just feel comfortable to come talk to you about it because nobody else effing understands that unless you've been through it like there's there's no possible way for us to have even an inkling of what you've been through yeah so that's kind of cool that people that you guys are that you're at least able to like find community with other people that have been through some really horrible things yeah which I mean I am so grateful that I get to help other people see that there's a light at the end of the tunnel yeah and kind of I I hope that I can inspire people to kind of reshape how they look at things if it's a negative thing you know maybe just find the positivity in it somehow um and it's kind of even more shifted to like running and and mindset and you know do hard things for yourself like the Boston I'm trying to qualify for the Boston Marathon in December and a lot of people ask well what is the the goal or why do you want to do Boston what's so special about Boston Marathon I said it's not running Boston it's qualifying for it because everything in my life right now up until this point has been a decision that somebody else has made you know I didn't either my mom I didn't choose for my mom to die I didn't choose for my dad to get remarried I didn't choose for him to get murdered but I can choose qualifying for the Boston because I have to put myself through that training period like that training block I have to do the hard work and prove to myself that I can do hard things even though it is my choice so I just want people to know like you can you can do hard things you can get through hard things it's there's always a positive outlook on it and I think that's a big part of it and I think that's a big part of it and you know I think it is it's kind of weird that people now come to me and they that's like the number one DM I get it's like well my this just happened to me how did you do this I'm like I can't respond to everyone all the time but like I'm so glad that people can find comfort in the way that I help manage things well your story is truly a story of resilience and I think you summarize it so well in closing it with talking about the cypress trees and how like they learn to be like self-sufficient in the marsh and it's just like the way that I see it it's just like the way you share your story with so much vulnerability but then and so it's just it's so candid it's so inspiring and I think that anyone could pick this book up and enjoy it and also just be changed because of it so thank you for talking with us yeah thank you so much and I do want to say like I can only imagine how proud your mom and dad would be of you and I wish they were here to be able to tell you that but I'm very emotional just all the time but I just wish that they could tell you that but I just can only imagine how proud of you that they would be like in the way that you share your story in the way that you steward your platform and your business and like are becoming such an independent strong adult like thank you it's amazing yeah thank you so much thank you this is fun she's a new New York Times best-selling author so definitely pick up a copy of ghost girl um and you guys we will see you next time yeah I also want to say like we talked about like literally the most sensitive topic so casually so because you have like opened that floor up but so I just want to say like thank you for having that conversation absolutely it's so heavy and I know it's probably like you're like this isn't fun for me to talk about I know it's fine I'm like an open book really I appreciate it and yeah yeah seriously yeah pick up a copy pick up a copy everybody awesome thank you yeah check engine abs or maintenance light on check engine abs or maintenance light on take the guesswork out of your warning lights with O'Reilly Veriscan the service is free and provides a report with solutions verified by ASE certified master technicians and if you need help we could recommend a shop for you ask for O'Reilly Veriscan today O O O O'Reilly Auto Parts O O O O'Reilly check engine abs or maintenance light on take the guesswork out of your warning lights with O'Reilly Veriscan the service is free and provides a report with solutions verified by ASE certified master technicians and if you need help we could recommend a shop for you ask for O'Reilly Veriscan today O O O O'Reilly Auto Parts