Surviving the Black Swan Murder with Eva Benefield

My mom died at 14, nine months later, my dad remarried a 23-year-old, and then five years later he was shot and killed by her. Today we sat down with Eva Benefield, the stepdaughter of the infamous Black Swan murder. She had three loaded guns in the house. One was in a hamper on the floor with a toddler walking around. Oh gosh. My uncle had texted me and I said, "Is he dead?" And they said, "Yes." I was like, "Did Ashley do it?" I looked at my sister and I said, "I don't have parents anymore." Eva's father, Doug, married former ballerina, Ashley Buyers, after a 13-day courtship. Her mom and her followed me into the hallway and they said, "Your dad, he killed your mom, he's gonna kill you, he's gonna kill us all." As the murder case made national headlines, actually accused Doug of domestic violence, leaving Eva to take the stand and her own father's murder trial. I saw all the topsy pictures of my dad that I was not supposed to see, so I couldn't sleep for weeks after that. Eva sets the record straight about the complicated years leading up to her dad's death, and what happened when she finally faced her stepmom in court all on today's episode? So for people that don't know your story, would you mind taking us back to like that day when you were 14, waiting for your mom to pick you up from school? Yeah, so I had just started my freshman year. It was December, it was on a Wednesday, and my mom dropped me off for school that morning. I was being a brat, I kinda got into it with her, but I don't even know what at this point. Slam the car door, and then after school she was gonna come pick me up, she didn't answer the phone, but that was kinda typical, she was really bad at being on her phone. And so I waited in the car line, and then I had an old friend from my middle school, or elementary school, who I just reconnected with because we both transferred from private to public. I said, "Hey, can your mom take me home?" 'Cause my mom is an answering, and she was like, "Yeah, no problem." So we went to my house, and all the lights were off, which is still again normal, because my mom hated overhead lights. So I knocked on the door, I didn't have my key for whatever reason, she didn't answer, I thought maybe she was just asleep, because she had been up all night switching her summer closet to her winter closet, because she was just like fashionista meticulous about her closet and her clothes. And I said, "She was up late last night, she's just asleep, we'll come back." So we went and got dinner, and then came back, and there my parents' room was on the first floor to the left of the front door behind bushes, so I just crawled behind the bushes, and I saw something in the window, so I went across the street and got my neighbor, and he broke the door down, and then I have a golden soli, who he's the sweetest golden, I mean, y'all have a golden tooth, you know, they just love balls. And my neighbor came, went inside, came back out and said, "Hey, you need to come get soli, because he's about to bite my hand off, so I went and I grabbed soli, and I saw my mom, and then I brought soli back out, and my neighbor came out and just kind of shook his head, and then I knew that she was gone, then I went across the street, and did not want to see any of that happening, so. - God. - Yeah, soli was protecting her, I know, and it's the cutest thing. He went through, I mean, he went, he lived with my dad, naturally, he lived with me at one point, kind of bounced around, saw my mom passing away, like he's seen more than I have, so I wish he could write a book, because then his book would be very interesting. - Yeah, literally. - Wow, I can't even imagine, and something that stood out to me reading your story was that you and your mom had been in a disagreement that morning. - Yeah. - And I feel like that is one of those worst-case scenario type of things, where you're like, "I phone only I knew that those were last moments." - Every night, before we go to bed, we have to say, "Goodnight, I love you." Even if we're in a disagreement, it doesn't matter, that's like Abby's rule, because of, yeah, you just never want to be, I don't know, I think for you, it's her. - Same with a phone call, like if you end a phone call, like I'm always like, it's that same type of thing. - Yeah, oh, I do the same thing with everyone now, too. I can't let an argument go unresolved, even if it is, and I'm like, "Alright, can we just put it on pause for a second?" I'm like, "Love you, goodnight." But yeah, it was kind of the worst-case scenario, and then it ate me alive forever, until I finally just realized, you know, she knew I was being a typical teenage girl. - Yeah. - It was 14, just, you know, being a brat, but. - Yeah, and it's like that your relationship was not categorized by those, like, final moments, so it was your everything up to that point, yeah. - And your parents at this time, your parents were separated, right? Are they been divorced at this point? - No, my parents were happily married all the way up until the end. - Okay. - Yeah, they both had marriages, or I know my mom did for a fact, I'm pretty sure my dad was married before my mom, but yeah, both very happily married. And then, yeah, I mean, it was just me and my dad after that, and he, nine months later, married, Ashley, which was, she was 23 at the time. - Which was nine years older than you, right? - Eight years older than me. - Yeah, eight years older than me. Yeah, that was crazy. I found out that they were dating on a Friday, and then two days later, they were actually marrying the entire time, but I found out they were married. And then, yeah, that was just kind of, she moved in right after, and it was crazy, I had a friend move in, also shortly after that, she lived with me. Things were fine at first, and then after about six months, she kind of started showing her true colors, and then it was, they had a baby. She left my dad, started making allegations against my dad, and they were going to get a divorce, and then they were reconciling, and they were going to divorce again, and they were separated. And then, my dad moved on to Florida, and they were doing better, and then five years down the road, in 2020, she had decided they were going to reconcile, and they were going to move to Maryland. And I mean, so much happened within those five years, too. I mean, she was making the most crazy allegations, saying that he was poisoning her, right? He was poisoning her, beating her, beating me. I mean, I had to move out at one point from my dad's house when I was 17, for six months, I moved in with my brother, because she called CPS, and she said that I was in danger, so my dad had to get a full investigation down on him. Obviously, I was not in danger, and I told them that from the get-go, this girl is crazy, she's clearly trying to get her way, and just every judge, every detective, every single person that she tried to make these claims to, they were like, no, Doug is, he's not, there's no evidence that he's doing any of these things, so she was just trying to exhaust every avenue, get her way in the custody battle, kind of show that he was crazy, and she was only fit, she was the only fit person to be the single parent. And then obviously got denied, but yeah, so they were going to move to Maryland, they were packing up the U-Haul, and she had three loaded guns in the house, one was in a hamper on the floor with a toddler walking around. - Oh gosh. - Pretty sure it was a lock, too, so no safety. I mean, what right-minded person lets that, you know, just like a. - I don't even know what a lock is actually. - Just a type of gun that does not have a safety on it, so you can literally pick it up and fire it, there's no kind of hamper in a hamper on the floor. - Yeah, and then one in a backpack and a closet and one in the pantry, and they were also packing the house, and my whole thing is like, look, I think guns obviously are always in the safe if you have them, and safe is one of the first things to go in the U-Haul, and why were the guns out, you know, so I think it was premeditated. - Yeah, she waited, and then she cornered my dad in a room and shot him, and then he died. - Okay, that's insane. I want to rewind for just one second, because when you casually mentioned that your dad married a 23-year-old, 30-year age gap, right? - Yes. - How was your reaction to your dad marrying someone 30 years younger back when you were 15? - So when I found out they were dating, it was by accident on Friday, he was picking me up from school, he was on a conference call, and he was hard of hearing because he was a Navy pilot for so many years that he just couldn't hear anything. So we had it on speaker, really loud, and they said, "Doug, are you going to bring your girlfriend to the conference next weekend?" And I was like, "What girlfriend?" You know, and I was 15. I had seen him up late texting, you know, sending hard emojis, whatever. So I knew something was going on, and I was like, "What girlfriend?" He said, "Oh, they got me confused with somebody." And I was like, "No, that doesn't seem right. Have you, who are they talking about?" And he was like, "We, you know, she's just a friend. Nothing more." I said, "Have you all gone to dinner?" And he said, "Yes." I said, "Have you all kissed?" And he was like, "Yes." And I said, "All right, that is dating. In my 15-year-old brain, that is dating dinner and kissing." Like, that's it. And he was like, "Okay, yeah, I'm dating somebody." And so at first I was like, "Okay, let me just give it the benefit of the doubt. I trust my dad." He's, you know, "We are so close." And I met her the next day. It was shock factor that she was so young. And I mean, she was very pretty. So I was kind of like, "Okay, this is like, I'm super close to my sister-in-law, who's around the same age." So I was like, "All right, you know, maybe this is like not going to be that weird of an adjustment." And then the next day I was upstairs getting ready to go surfing with my friend. I was getting all my things at the time. I couldn't drive without another adult with a license in the car. So my dad was going to drive me with Ashley in the car, obviously. And he came upstairs and he was like, "Hey, but we need to have a family discussion downstairs." And living room, I said, "Well, no, no family discussion because this isn't a family." And he said, "Yeah." But we need to have a discussion. I said, "Look, I'm not interested in talking about it anymore. I know you're dating her and good for you. I'm going to trust you on that one, but I'm just not." not ready to be that involved in it yet. And I said the only thing that I would come downstairs to have a family discussion for is if you said you were going to propose. And then as soon as those words came out of my mouth, he goes, we're married. So I got in the car and I got them to get in the backseat of my two-door deep wrangler and I drove myself to my friend's house and then they took the car home and that was that. - That's such a power move. Like you're the one who's having to act like an adult because you're just getting thrown into this crazy situation. This woman that you don't even know is marrying your dad and you're like, okay, I'm taking action. It sounds like that's what the type of person you are, though, that you just take action. - Kind of, yes. I think I just shut, my brain just shuts off and I'm just kind of like, right, what's the first step? And I actually saw a quote the other day. I think it was like an idiot in motion is better than a smart person at rest or something. Like look, I might not make the best decisions at all times but I'm always like taking the next decision, you know. - I want to put that like on my bathroom mirror and the emotion is better than a smart person at rest. - Something like that. - That's great. - Yeah. - That's what I gathered. - Kind of like you can outwork them, you know? - You can. - You don't have to be that smart to win. If you outwork, if you outwork everybody else you can still be stupid and succeed. - Yeah, I mean it's like you have to have the initiative in the drive and if you know, really sick smart person that has all of the, what is it? I guess a really not, I don't wanna say not smart but a less fortunate person with the odds against them that's just constantly trying like that's gonna build their drive, you know, versus somebody who's very privileged and that's what I see a lot now growing up. I had all the odds against me at one point and I worked really hard and I got out of all of these situations and I built something for myself versus I know people that you know, Charleston, parents are very wealthy. - Some old money and Charleston, right? - Old money, just, you know, they have the trust fund set up. I've heard people say I don't care what I graduate for. I have my trust fund that I get when I'm 25. I heard somebody's mouth one time and I was like, "Okay, yeah, I don't have that." So we're completely different. But then, you know, a few years down the road, they're not doing that great because they never had any fire lit under the (beep) or lack of other terms. So, I mean, that's kind of like what I learned. But yeah, always just like making the next decision. Just keep it going. So that's when I got in the car. I was just like, it was awkward car ride too 'cause it's a two-door Jeep Wrangler. They were smushed in the back seat. I was driving to Albums. Just like, all right, I got to get out of here right now. - You're currently 25, right? - Yes. - And when all this happened, you know, your dad marrying, actually, she was 23. So you're now older than she was when she married your dad. - Yeah. - How does that make you feel? - I'm like, I don't even think, now I wanna get married. I'm like, I'm nowhere near. And I think at this point, they were married with a child. I'm like, oh my God, like I can't even manage myself. I don't know what it was in her mind to think, yeah, I'm 23 and I can handle a 50-year-old husband and a 14-year-old girl. Her reasoning was that she taught ballet classes to younger, early, teenage year girls. So she was like, oh, I have experience with them. So I'm gonna hand, I'm gonna well-equipped to handle Eva. No, I don't think so. So yeah, I don't know. I don't know what person in the right mind would think that that's a good idea, but. - Do you think your dad went through with the marriage so quickly? 'Cause this happened within 13 days, they met, started dating, got engaged, and married all within 13 days, right? - Yep. - Do you think that was for religious reasons? - I think partially, yeah. That's like the only thing in my brain that stuck out because he was very devout Christian. And so I think that that was kind of his driving factor with all of that, but then I don't know. I think she claimed to be devout Christian too, so she just kind of went along with it and was like, oh, let's get married. So we can start doing things that we can't do before we're married. And she, yeah, I think that was a big driving factor, for sure. - What was life in that household like at the time? 'Cause you and a friend were living there. She, Ashley and your dad, newly married, also just met, everyone's adjusting. You're also grieving you and your dad. And then she becomes pregnant shortly after too. What's that household like? - I couldn't tell you. It was like the most crazy kind of me and my friend were, I was just trying to get through school and normal teenage things. Like, you know, I had a crush on a boy and there's friend drama and I also have lacrosse practice that I'm trying to try out for the team this year, you know? So that was kind of, we were both trying to manage our own things and stay on top of our academics and our extracurriculars and then I'd come home and she was, you know, sitting on the kitchen counter and a brawn underwear. So it was just kind of like a really weird adjustment and she was, it was fun when she was just trying to be friendly and adjusted but then six months down the road when she started feeling like she had a little bit more of a power trip and she was trying to discipline. That's when things kind of hit the fan because she was trying to ground me or take my car away. I was like, you're barely able to drive at this point. You can't take my keys for me. - Okay, the brawn underwear thing, was that, was that like some sort of power trip move to be like, I'm the boss, I'm, I call the shots. Like, 'cause I think about like guys, like some guys like in the locker room, like just like, I just like walk around and just wanna be like, I'm the alpha one. I never played football so I wouldn't really know. But that's just like my idea. - I think partially yes. I also know that she had, I wanna say, it was histrionic personality disorder, which is childlike behaviors but then also over sexualizing themselves. - So which she did both of those things, she had a teddy bear that she would bring around in like- - Oh wow, she was like text books. - Yes, yeah, like text book kind of weird behaviors and then also over sexualizing herself in, you know, she would always- - Why the sexualization with the child, like teddy bear? - I don't know. - That's just like, that's a legit personality disorder. - Yeah, I think, those are two of the characteristics. I also think she weaponized incompetence so she would act kind of like, oh, I'm so young and you know, I don't know how to do things and dug, take care of me and then she wouldn't get away and all of a sudden she's, you know, make sure her bra's a little more out than usual. She was kind of making sure, oh, she always made it a point in the room like, oh, I'm packing. Like I have a gun in my pants, I have a gun in my bra. So it's just kind of like weird, a weird power trip where she was like, she had all this confidence but then she also acted stupid in a way. - She was like the t-shirt girl at the Trump rallies, right? - Yeah. - That's so interesting. - Can you fill us in on that? - She kind of bragged about it a lot which I always found very weird that she was like, oh, Trump and I are, you know, he was, I worked for him for a little bit and I, you know, he was like my friend and he called me, you know, baby girl or something like that. She just like made it a point. I was just kind of like, this is weird. I don't know, I was 16, 15, 16. I was like, I don't really care about politics right now. I was like, cool dude, I don't care. It seems like she kind of made the house like volatile, like, you know, ups and downs. But then in reading your book too, like learning about the way that she just completely disregarded any type of like privacy for you and like any boundary whatsoever. It's like she just violated. - Yeah, she took down pictures of my mom in my room. She went, she was like, I want to paint everything in the kitchen black. So they painted the cabinets black. It was a really dark house. It didn't need the extra black features in there 'cause it was already dark enough. And I don't know, she just kind of like took everything stripped it all down and made it just like a really uncomfortable space from her personality than also how she just, her design choices and her interference with my personal space. - Mm, yeah. - And she read your journals too, right? - Yeah, yeah, I wrote something about, you know, I hated her, you know, I didn't like her and she read that and that was a huge fight between her and my dad and me. - How did you know that she read your journal? - Because my dad came to me and he was like, well, you wrote in your journal that you don't like Ashley. I'm like, well, why, where did you get that information? So you clearly read my journal. - We kind of skipped something for a little bit there because I realized all of this happened right after your dad told you that he wasn't going to remarry. He wasn't going to, you know, have kids anymore. That whole conversation took place the night that your mom died, right? - Yeah, he got the next flight home because he was out of town and I woke up at 3 in the morning and we kind of sat there and he was like, you know, I'm here for you. I'm going to be your mom and your dad now. If you need anything from me, just whatever you need, you know, it can be anything, just come to me about it. I don't want there to be any dishonesty or however you're feeling, I've dealt with grief before. So he really made sure that, you know, I was taking care of any, I knew that I was going to be taking care of it, whatever capacity I needed. And then he was like, my first question was, are you going to get remarried? And he said, no, I mean, it was probably 3 in the morning and he had just had a long flight from wherever he was. And so I think he was exhausted and I was half asleep but I don't know why that was my first question. And he said, no, he was like, I'm not thinking about that right now, no. And then that was a lie, I guess. So. you having such a good time. such a tumultuous relationship with your step mom is so vastly different than the relationship you had and I'm guessing still have with your sister-in-law. - Yeah. - Because she moved in shortly after the death of your mom, right? To kind of like help run the household. - She, my brother was deployed. They had already sold their house. She was looking for to rent somewhere else in the Charleston area. So it just kind of made sense because my dad was traveling a lot. She was like, I was getting to the age where I needed to start learning how to go grocery shopping, how to clean things properly, how to, you know, and just to have a young female around was really helpful. So we became very close. And yeah, when my dad was one of his kind of talking points when it came to why he thought Ashley was a good fit, was you need a young female around to kind of show you the ropes on how to be a young woman. And I said, no, I have my sister-in-law. I don't need that role filled because I have her. So it was super weird. 'Cause then also there was a little like two week period of time where Ashley moved in and my sister-in-law hadn't moved out yet. And that was just kind of, I don't even really, I think I blacked out for those two weeks because I mean, Ashley just moved in. And my sister-in-law was frantically trying to find somewhere to rent at that point. 'Cause this was all, this was sprung on us so fast. - And that was because your sister-in-law's husband, your brother was deployed overseas, right? He was either deployed or he was at a base somewhere and just traveled, he was gone a lot. So but yes, he was gone and she had, she needed to find somewhere for them to live for him to come home to. So she moved out really fast after that. - What was that relationship like? - I don't even really remember. I remember, my sister-in-law was close with my neighbors 'cause my neighbors were close with my mom and my dad, but the Miss Melody, she lived across the street and she was my mom's best friend or one of them. And so then my sister-in-law kind of, you know, went over to her a lot and they hung out a lot. And I remember at one point, my sister-in-law was over there talking to Melody and they were talking about Ashley moving in and how weird it was. And it was Ashley tried to cook dinner for us at one point and she was a little bit younger than my sister-in-law too. So it was just kind of super weird. And I felt like my sister-in-law was very humble and not somebody to try and give too much direction or anything. So she was just kind of, I think, quiet and respectful and Ashley was just kind of in your face, you know, I'm the new girl around here. That's kind of the vibe that I got from them. And then my sister-in-law moved out. And we never really talked about it after that. It was just kind of like this weird elephant in the room for a while and it was never addressed. - Did you know anything about Ashley's life prior to like her moving into your house? - Nothing. Other than she told me that she also dealt with losing a parent, although her dad never died. He just had another family in California. So she was like, well, she tried to relate to me a lot because she was like, my mom was super depressed after my dad moved out and I was basically, you know, I was raising my mom at one point or, you know, taking care of my mom. And it was always a sob story. You know, she was always starting to cry. I was just kind of saying like, okay, this is completely different. But then she also, I knew that she was married before. I don't know if I found that out when I, when she was living with us or until, you know, the trial. But she was engaged before and that's all I really knew other than her teaching ballet classes or she was a ballerina or something. I don't know. - Thank you to Zock Talk for sponsoring this portion of today's episode. I have ADHD and so I use Zock Talk to schedule my medicine refill appointments because how it usually happens is I realize like the day of, oh shoot, I'm out of medicine. I should do a same day appointment with Zock Talk and then I go on the app, I schedule it for the same day. They always have a provider available and they just make it so quick, so easy. Zock Talk lets you search and compare local in network doctors. They have more than 150,000 providers with 200 plus specialties across all 50 states and appointments happen fast within 72 hours and sometimes even same day appointments. - We have used Zock Talk over the years for a range of different types of appointments because like Matt said, they have so many different specialties from mental health to dental health. They have so many different things just a typical well visit and like Matt said, they even compare in network doctors. - Your health matters and taking care of yourself shouldn't be complicated. Ready to be seen? at desocktalk.com/unplanned to get started and check that appointment off your to-do list that's zocdoc.com/unplanned. (upbeat music) - So the ballet element does become a big part of the story, at least how it was packaged in the media. - Yeah. - Because her and your dad were gonna start a ballet company together. - Yeah, it was gonna be the Charleston International Ballet Company which I think that had it been not her doing all of the kind of leading of that. It would have been a great concept because they were hiring ballerinas that were kind of cut, you know, there's this one certain look that everybody wants for all the high pristine ballerinas. - Yeah. - You know, and so it's kind of cutthroat when it comes to auditioning and stuff and there's a lot of other women that are excluded and so they were going to take those women who are still incredible athletes and credible ballerinas and hire them. So I think that it really had a, it was a great idea. But then she took over. So they started this thing. My dad found all the investors, you know, he was a great entrepreneur and business. He just knew how to start a business if he had a good idea for it. So he kind of pulled everything together, started it for her because that was all she wanted and then she became I guess the CEO or the COO technically. The vibe that I got from my dad, it was the equivalent of giving like a five-year-old crayons to like color at the table so that you're not loud, you know? Like iPad time at the table kind of just shut them up for a little bit because that's all. I think my dad just wanted her to be kind of busy or feel busy while she was, which is another component I think of her personality disorder because it made her feel entitled to be like, well, I'm the boss around here, you know, I can say and do. Again, 23, I did not have the knowledge to run a business at that capacity. I mean, they were talking a lot of money and investors and it was a huge deal. Like millions, right? But yeah, I could not, I'm 25 now running a business. I'm like, I don't even know how to do it half the time. I'm like Googling things all the time, pulling my hair out. Like, how do I do this? And she just thought she could run the whole thing and it went downhill very quickly. So, I mean, and then again, once my dad, he hired somebody that actually knew how to run a ballet and knew how to, 'cause they were talking about a reality show at one point. So he pulled someone down from New York and he was like, right, this lady is going to run this now. Actually, you can kind of take a beat for a set 'cause we have to make sure, you know, the investors are getting their returns. The ballet, the ballerinas are getting paid for. - Yeah. - Ashley didn't like that. That she was kind of getting somebody to take over. And I think that's one of the reasons that she left and disfought herself. And 'cause the day that she disfought herself was the day that she left a note on the bed for my dad. So she was pregnant at the time. And she said she had been in Florida a lot with her mom because my dad was traveling a good bed and really busy. She was having a terrible pregnancy. So she went to go get taken care of by her mother. And then I came home one day, all of her stuff was gone. Which she had been out at the house already. So I thought it was weird that all of her stuff had just disappeared. - Yeah. - And I thought maybe her car got stolen. I called my dad. He started calling the cops and then I found the note. And that's the day that she left my dad. And then she publicly disfought herself from the ballet. - How do you publicly disavow yourself? - Post it on Facebook. - It was a face of post. - Yeah. - I disavowed myself from this ballet. - Yeah, maybe like an Instagram post or something. - And that was 'cause she was mad that your dad hired someone who actually knew how to run a ballet. - I think that was part of it. I really do. 'Cause I mean, I never really, I didn't read the letter. I don't know, you know, I never heard her talk about it. But I think she was really just did not like somebody else coming and taking over her position. - Did you overhear them fighting up before this all happened? Or was it, we kind of just kept in the dark on everything? - Kind of kept in the dark on everything. I knew if there was an argument 'cause 95% of the time I was the topic of discussion or something that I was involved. And I think it was, Ashu was a little bit jealous of me and my dad's relationship. So she would always pick fights with my dad about me, which shoved a wedge in between me and my dad. Obviously there was just a lot of tension. But I mean, for the most part, yeah. I think, I don't know. She just, that was definitely one of the reasons. - Did she ever want you to call her mom? - No, I don't think she ever did request that. - Okay. - I remember my dad actually called her Renee one time, which was my mom's name. That was fun, but. - What was that fun? - I thought it was hilarious. Because I was, it was right after my mom died. I was like, finally, my dad's showing some sort of grief. He kind of, he was stoic the whole time and he really didn't hold it together. But yeah, it felt kind of good that she just came, was prancing around and that put her in her place really quick. Because she, I mean, that made her so mad. And at that point, we were in a lot of arguments, her and I. So to have her just kind of like, hey, remember, they're still, agreeing 15 year old and the mom has a huge, you know, presence in the household still. So I don't know. - What are some of those other arguments that you had? I know you already told us about the, taking your mom's picture down in your bedroom. - The picture. Well, yeah, so that was, the pictures were gone. That really didn't cause an argument. I was more just kind of like this is so weird. I went to my dad and he just kind of brushed it off. And this was actually, it was funny because it was in court too. This is something, I think I had a testifier. It was brought up in one of the things. Maybe she was testifying, but she had made these shadow boxes with seashells glued into them. And the Bible verse is written on the back. And I have a gazillion seashells. I don't need them glued in frames in my room. And there was multiple of them. So I needed one for, I had a rose from my mom's funeral that I had dried. And I needed to put it in a shadow box. And I didn't want to go to the store and get one. So I just used one of the seashell ones. And she saw that when I'd like taken it apart and put the rose in there instead. And she went to my dad. I mean, sobbing, crying, hyperventilating. And my dad came upstairs and he was like, you really upset Ashley. And she was just kind of like sniffling behind him. And he was like, you need to apologize. You need to put the seashell back in the box. And I just was kind of like, this is a very big reaction for something so little. I don't know. And it was still, I thought it was just weird. Even at the time that her writing was still in the back. The Bible verses was still in the back. Like another piece of her little craft was there that I could appreciate, but I just switched the things out. So I don't know. I don't know. I was like, well, if anything, it was me trying to combine the two, I guess. And it's from your mom's funeral. Yeah, like how are you going to get mad about that? But I don't know. So that was a big thing. And then that's when the girl that lived with us at the time she was about to go to Indiana for a church camp. And I wasn't going to go. And then that was the turning point. I think Ash, it was like, what even needs to go to. There's something wrong with her or something. So they forced me to go. I was having a panic attack about going. And she offered me a volume, which caused another-- I was like, I'm 16. I don't need a volume for a panic attack. And I went to my dad. And I was like, she's offering me drugs, you know? So I don't know. It was just constant, very high emotion tension. At what point were you thinking that there might be a chance that your stepmom would kill your dad? I never really thought that it would come to that. I knew I told my dad at one point that he needs to leave her just because she was trying to get a security clearance taken from him, which was, you know, a huge-- his whole job was his security clearance. She got CPS involved. She got the cops involved. You know, there was just so many things that were taking him down. And I'd gone down to Florida. My dad requested, he was like, please just come to Florida. You need to meet your half-sister, you know, come see everybody. And I was like, OK, so I went to Florida reluctantly. And we were going to the nighttime Christmas Eve service. She was in a body con dress that went up to her booty cheeks with six inch stilettos. I mean, it looked like a New Year's Eve dress that you go to the bars. And it's not something that you wear to a church. What is a body con dress? Like a tight dress. It's like-- OK. It's like form fitting. Yeah. OK. Oh, yeah, I like it when she wears this. Yeah, exactly, yeah. It's like church. Yeah, it's a church. I mean, that was like super weird. The baby started crying. I was overwhelmed. And so I stepped out because I was starting to have-- I was just getting really bad anxiety. It was stuffy in there as a mega church. There was a lot of people, a lot of bright lights and stuff. And so I stepped out in the hallway and her mom and her followed me into the hallway. And they cornered me and they said, are you scared? Is it-- are you sparing for your life? Your dad, he killed your mom. He's going to kill you. He's going to kill us all. Her mom wrote down her number on a sheet of paper. And gave it to me and said, don't put your-- my phone number and your phone, your dad can hack it. And he can find me and kill me. I literally said, [BEEPING] y'all get out of here. Get away from me. This is not-- I'm not here for you. I'm here for my dad. I'm here for my half-sister. And so I didn't really tell my dad the whole store. I just kind of said they were bothering me. And then it happened again in Easter. I went back down. And they cornered me again. And we went to a store. And they pushed me under a speaker. So it was super loud in my dad. I guess couldn't hear me. And-- Part of hearing. Yeah. That's always the same thing. Your dad killed your mom. He's beating us. Was this the first time that you would ever heard someone say that your dad killed your mom? Yes, they're just pulling. And they weren't even around at that-- No. How did they actually say those words where they were like, OK, look, we have this theory that your dad killed your mom because of this. Or did they just say this is a fact? They killed your mom. And I was just kind of like, where is this coming from? I'm sorry. And so I, again, told them, like, F off, get away from me. And then I told my dad, Easter morning, because he could tell something was wrong. And I was like, look, this is what happened. This happened at Christmas. I'm not coming here again. And that's when he was-- there was a turning point. He was like, all right, that's it. I'm going to leave her. I've tried so hard to show her. I'm just trying to be a loving husband, show her what a true godly man is, and be a good father. And she just continues to do this to me. And I can't figure out why. And I said, OK, we're not all leave now. You stay. The baby is on the way. And she needs-- she's at the age now, where she might remember opening her Easter basket. So I'm just going to go, we'll do that. We'll open Easter baskets. And I'll leave, you can come to Charleston tomorrow. And then he never came to Charleston. I think, again, he was with her and the child. And he just got roked back in. This might be hard for you to guess. But if you had to speculate, if Ashley and her mom actually believed those things, or if they were just trying to manipulate the situation, what do you think? I think it was a little bit of both. I think they were trying to manipulate the situation. I also think that they had started to-- because her mom was just as crazy as her. I think that they had started to believe their own lies a little bit. I think they had kind of conspired so much within themselves that eventually it was just like that it has to be, you know? Yeah, they couldn't tell the two apart. Yeah, and they also-- I know Ashley tried to get my mom's-- she got my mom's medical records pulled. But then she also tried to get her dog back up to do-- I guess if they could do like an autopsy. How would she have any-- Get her dog back up? Like her grave taken out. How could she as the new wife have any ability to do that? She was crazy. She was going to different doctor's offices. She got fired from-- I think it was definitely one. It might have been two different doctor's offices because they kept telling her, no, like what you're looking for. You don't have these, you know, poisons in your body. You don't have anything wrong with you. The baby is fine. And they were just telling her, no, that there's nothing wrong. And so she was like-- she literally threw a hissy fit in one of the offices and they said, you need to get out. And then same with the detective in the trial, he had testified that she called him. It was during a custody case. And there was-- they were going before a judge. And she called the detective and she said, can you arrest dog in front of the judge? So the judge sees that he's a terrible person. And well, I'm the only fit one to be the mother. And the detective said, no, I'm not going to do that. And she said, basically, custom out and said, well, you're not going to take matters into your own hands than I will. And he said, well, I've never in my 30 years of service had anybody do that over the phone to me and say they were going to take matters into their own hands. So I don't know. I don't know. I never got the vibe that she was actually insane enough to take somebody's life. But I also knew she was just-- I mean, all signs pointed towards it. So I just didn't want to believe that that was actually going to be the outcome. Thank you to Noble for sponsoring this portion of today's episode. One of my travel rules is to keep your hands free when at all possible. That is why we are so excited about the Noble Bag. We love traveling with it. First off, they built a flip-out cup holder right into the luggage, total lifesaver in the lines at the gate, or when you just need somewhere to park your coffee. There's a built-in charging port. So important. And there's a front laptop pocket that makes TSA a breeze. They have 360 wheels. It glides next to you instead of dragging behind you like an anchor. 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Within hours, there was a lot of press on it, local news, and then slowly started getting, I think, within like a week or two, I started getting media people coming to me and asking, reporters saying, what do you make a statement? And then I think eventually it did. People did enough digging within a month. It was kind of dubbed the Black Swan murder. see be like 48 hours. hours was starting to be a thing in production so I mean it was it was quick. And for people that don't know the full details of what happened can you can you walk us through like what happened that night? So they were packing up the U-Haul and she he I guess so like 10 minutes before it happened the mother had taken their daughter to a park nearby. Is it actually mom? Yeah grandma took the daughter to a park nearby and then I guess my dad she says it was out of self-defense because my dad had body checker and was being aggressive this entire time. Okay I don't think that's the case my dad didn't have aggressive bone in his body and then she he came into a room I think he was been there was one more box in a mattress and it was basically empty and he was turned to the side and she took the gun and she fired multiple rounds. She hit him in it was through the like kind of the back side it was through the side and out the front I think is what it was but it was he was clearly turned towards the side and then again through the back of his leg so I mean if like that's kind of where the forensics people during the trial were like okay so he fell he fell and then how did his leg came up in the air and you know like and she she claimed that he was just moving all around because he was like in a fighting position and because he was a you know he did jujitsu growing up I guess and Navy pilot just hand-hand combat stuff but that was kind of her claim and so she shot him he I think she waited around 15 minutes to go over to the neighbor's house and the police had already been notified because the neighbor had heard the gun shots and then once she got there you can hear her I guess there was another phone call she was in the background the neighbor was doing all the talking her lawyer was already on the scene before the detectives even showed up and then yeah my dad he I think that she waited a little bit because she was waiting for him to not be able to speak and he I think died within an hour or two and yeah that was that I was notified the next day and then yeah that was kind of it does that feel like a long time like to be notified as the daughter so I have no reference of how long it should have been I think I remember the detective telling me that EMS wanted me to know that my dad was really trying to stay strong so I think he fought for a little bit afterwards and then I don't think that any family was notified till the next day I think that they were probably trying to figure out who he is who needs to get called well his the next person his emergency contact Ashley was that's probably in you know arrested so or she was I think she was arrested shortly after that taken to the station and then yeah I mean I found out the next morning or like around lunchtime the next day so yeah and you'd been texting him you've been trying yeah and you had said like was there any part of you that had any type of instinct that you think that something was wrong yes and I was being told by my friends my my sister in law who I told I was like I'm kind of worried my dad normally sent me a Bible verse every single morning like 4.35 in the morning so I didn't get a Bible verse that morning I woke up texted him hey is everything okay because normally it was like he sent the Bible verse I'd wake up an hour or two later I text him he'd call me we talk about what we were gonna do or I was gonna do for the day and he hadn't said anything so I text him good morning and then an hour later still nothing then another hour went by still nothing and so eventually I started to worry a little bit and my friends knew that I mean the same thing happened with my mom I texted her a bunch didn't answer and my dad knew that too so everybody even you know highest up most important government people in the world he would be in a meeting with them and if I had an issue where I was like I need to reach you right now he knew to say hey I just need to tell my daughter I'm in a meeting so he I was everyone was like maybe he's just in a meeting and we'll get back to him like even if he was there's a chance that I called him so many times I text him so many times it had been since 7 in the morning it was 10 o'clock now I he would have responded by now and so I told my sister-in-law she said again it's just anxiety everything's probably fine I was starting a shift at a coffee shop that was in the neighborhood my sister-in-law lived in so I drove over to her house right before that shift started and we were just kind of sitting there and my uncle had texted me hey Eva are you like is everybody say he was like hey Eva how are you doing or do you have time for a phone call which I'm not very we weren't very close at the time so it was kind of weird for him to say that and so I immediately called him and he had already had patched in my dad's cousin on the phone as well I heard them kind of talking have you told her yet what's going on I said what happened there's something wrong that I know it and they were like we their dad's been in an accident he's been shot and I said is he dead and then they said yes and then he said I was like did Ashley deal it and they said yes and then I mean after I just kind of hung up and I looked at my sister and I said I don't have parents anymore and then I called them back five minutes I was like oh my gosh it's the 28th rents due in three days so I had to call them and say hey my dad pays my rent I don't I don't know what to do so yeah that was that did you were you in tears right away were you interested in other shock you even know how to feel I cried immediately and then within five minutes so I hung up I put my phone away on the table and my sister and she had her newborn on the couch put the newborn next to her and I went and crawled in her lab I was like I just didn't know what to do and then I had plans with my friends that night and so they were already at it was kind of a few streets over from her house they were already there and I called my former boss and I said hey or I didn't even I couldn't even talk because I knew I had that shift starting in 20 30 minutes she knew my sister-in-law because she went to high school with my brother so my sister-in-law called my former boss and said hey there's been an accident so for like six months working at that job everybody just thought my dad died in a car accident until they kind of picked up the why do you keep talking about murder and then she was like oh my dad was murdered did you'll not hear about that and they were like no it just said that there was an accident so yeah I called or she called said I wasn't coming in and then I called back I said I I kind of just like locked in I said I need to figure out rent I don't have any money and then I called my friends I said hey are y'all still there I'm they said yeah just come over so I drove I mean I could barely hit my the foot the gas pedal cuz my legs were shaking so bad drove over there very slowly and I sat down the porch and they could tell something was wrong they said what's going on I said I actually killed my dad and they were like all right what are we doing tonight what's the plan what do you want to do and they just kind of immediately took over and just carried me through the next two weeks that burden of finances immediately like you worrying about rent just breaks my heart that you also became responsible for your dad's estate right like for paying like the mortgage on the house they start reaching out to you right yeah so I there was no basically the will was like he there was it was interesting because there was two copies of the will one was dated before there's two and one the old one had Ashley Eva gets everything in his handwriting Ashley gets nothing and then there was another one I guess after that and so that was I guess when she had left my dad so we found that and then I was supposed to get the house and you know all the things whatever my brothers were gonna get stuff to and then we kind of realized I was the only person it was like Ashley Doug and then Eva been a field were the only people listed on the house mortgage paperwork or whatever yeah my dad had taken on a second mortgage on the house and was completely underwater with it he had basically no money left when all he had was his kind of stalk and and whatever investment money that like I still you know it's not like those were immediate returns yeah so and I knew even if those did have a return on them it would be years before I saw that but yeah I had to somebody tried to serve me for I guess what was owed on the house or the taxes or something for hundreds of thousands of dollars and then I just remember seeing that letter I'm like oh my god what do I do and then what did you do when you got served I went to a yoga class I at my dad's high school sweetheart was a yoga teacher and I was very close with her at this point that you know I'd been a couple months since and I I didn't know her until after my dad passed she had reached out she was one of those people that reached out yeah and she started doing she had had a yoga studio so I went to her class and she was like even used to seem very close off what's going on and she pulled me into her office and she was also a practicing lawyer and she looked I showed her the paperwork and she looked at them and immediately she knew my dad's brothers too got all of them on the phone and I mean she's the most gentle sweet southern bell you would ever meet I have never heard her ring somebody out like ring them out you know over the phone like you Eva is hearing you western David you'll have to get you know Eva is she's a young girl and she started yelling at them over the phone like she she can't take care of the estate you have to do something my brother was the executor of the well and he didn't want anything to do it this after I'm my dad he had no relation to my dad and at that point it was kind of an elephant in the room of what had happened They didn't really ever talk about it with me. My brother wasn't doing anything with the estate, and so he signed everything over to my uncle. And because I was the contact points for all these people and everything, but then I wasn't actually in control of the paperwork because I guess I was so young when my dad made that well that I couldn't be, I don't know. But yeah, that was kind of that. And then as far as everything else, there was no life insurance or anything. I dug through so much paperwork for years, trying to find any kind of scrap of evidence that my dad had life insurance. And he did at one point, but he had stopped paying the premium like four months before he died. So that was really annoying to see that. But hindsight, I'm grateful that I didn't get just a large some of money handed to me right after, 'cause I think I would have turned out completely differently. - Why do you think you would have been different? - I would have been, I mean, when I was, I went through, when Ghost Cowboy started making more money, and I was not used. I mean, it was like, it went viral so fast. I wasn't used to making that kind of money compared to my hourly barista job. I've got very responsible very quickly and I started going down an entirely wrong path. I started hanging out with the wrong people, doing drugs, drinking a lot. Like, not the person that I needed to be. And luckily I got out of that stage, but I think I would have turned into another little, you know, old, not old money, but just a little trust fund kid. - Yeah, I got a couple million dollars in life insurance and just kinda effed off. - I was gonna ask you about that. Like, did you feel this huge urge right when you got the horrible news to just go super drunk? Or like just, yeah, like, did you turn to, did you have any advices that you turned to at that time? - I mean, yeah, I was drinking a lot that first year. I think it was more just typical 21 year old socialization at that point, 20 year old social, no, as I was 20 at that point, like, 20, 21. Those first two years, 20, 20 year old. - But I feel like in the South, they're like, oh, if you're 18, you can drink. - Oh, you can drink a beer, yeah. - Even though the law is different, I feel like the Southern people are like, yeah, it's fine. - No, it's okay, yeah, we were 16. Like, it was okay as long as it was in the house, you know, the parents had the keys. But, yeah, I, 19, 20, I then started ghost cowboy. I think I'd freshly turned 21. So, at that point, I was legally drinking. I could go out and spend my money. I wanted to and ghost cowboy's also taking off. I just started hanging out with the wrong crowd. For about a year, I was just not doing the things that I should have been doing. And, you know, it was great because ghost cowboy was going viral. So, I didn't have to put in a lot of work to make the money and really run the business. And then, the end of 2022, I kind of, I had this one terrible, terrible, terrible night. Woke up the next day, super hungover. And I was like, that's it, I'm done. I need to get my (beep) together. I, 'cause I used to be like a runner and I played lacrosse in high school and I would go to workout class all the time. And I was such a clean eater, you know, that was just kind of my way of life for so long. And I just put that on the back burner and was out of control. So, I found a little house on all palms on Facebook Marketplace. And it was like, it's a beach shack. It is just, you know, the bare minimum of a house. But I sold, I bought a 1978 F-100 that I was rebuilding with some of the money that I had been making from Ghost Cowboy and I had rebuilt it enough that I could sell it for a profit. So I sold it for a profits because I, it was too expensive to break my lease in the apartment I was in, which was also a terrible apartment. And I think that was kind of contributing to just this depressed hole that I was in. Yeah. And I, so I sold that F-100. I had two months or three months worth of rent for both apartments. And then I eventually moved into the house and like just had the other apartment for three months. And then I got rid of it. And then I felt off the face of the earth, dropped all of my old friends. Not all of my old friends, like some of my friends that, you know, I was, it was like two friend groups. The friend group that I was with when I found out about my dad and we went out. They're still very close, good friends, but it was this other crowd. The party crowd? The party crowd. You had to like cut them off because it wasn't good for you? Yeah. I mean, like completely ghosted them and just kind of went and I got back in shape. I quit drinking for a while. You know, that was kind of just like whipped myself into shape. And then exercise turned into a vice, a huge vice. That's awesome. I mean, I mean, exercise is really, is a good thing. Yeah, I would say. I started distance running after my mom passed away. I got really into it. And then obviously it kind of fell off the wagon there for a little bit. But that's when I think 2022 is when I really discovered marathon training. And like, distance running when I was in high school where I had from a mom dad was like six miles max. But I started getting to eight and 10. And you know, all of a sudden I was doing half marathons. And then I was thinking, I would like to do a full marathon. And I think that turned into the workload of that and ghost cowboy and really learning. Because then all of a sudden, I also had this lawsuit with my former kind of business partner. Yeah. That he screwed that guy. I'm sorry. I don't know this person. I was like reading that in your book. And I'm like, what's up? A person sues someone while they're going to trial because their dad got murdered. So I sued him. Oh, you sued him. OK. But still, it was better, but still awful. Because I was having to pay all this money for these attorneys. And I wasn't paying myself. And then I was going to a murder trial. I eventually he settled and, you know, everything's fine out. There are some crazy things I can tell you. I'm not legally allowed to talk about it. But like, you don't want to mess around with the law. Yeah. So which you've-- I mean, you've got to go into court and trial. And you've spent so much time in front of-- Thank you to Vintage for sponsoring this portion of today's episode. Been wearing the same maternity pieces for so long. 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So if you're ready to clean out your closet and make some extra money, definitely download the Vintage app for free and start listing. With no seller fees, you keep every dollar you earn. You casually mentioned the media and how big that was, all that media attention. Can you walk us through what that was like to wake up and you have CNN, TMZ, all these different media outlets? I think you mentioned the Hollywood Reporter in your book. Just everyone's at your doorstep, wanting you to make a comment on the case in the trial. What was that like? - It was just kind of bizarre. I think I got really frustrated because I was so overwhelmed and it immediately felt like a cash grab for everybody else kind of profiting off of this huge story. And I mean, I was fine with speaking about it because I think it gave me an opportunity to get back at her. She wasn't in jail yet right after everything happened and the trial wasn't going to happen for a while. So any chance I could get where I'm like, well, maybe she would see this. And she would know that I'm fighting for my dad. But at the same time, there were instances where either there was an article that I met with this reporter and she took my words and twisted them. And it was like, I was frustrated when I saw the article came out and that was my first real taste of journalism and journalist. - How did she twist her words? - She tried to paint it super political, which I just, again, I'm not a political person. And I was like, my dad was murdered and you're trying to make this about politics because of his affiliation with your public party. - Of course they did, yeah, of course they did. - So that was like, I think that was really frustrating and then, you know, but at the same time it was, I just kind of compartmentalized and put my head down and did it, you know, and I think that's kind of, I just kind of had to say, okay, feelings on the back burner, let's just, I'm gonna do what I need to do to get through it. So that same, it was just kind of a crazy experience, but I learned a lot very quickly with it. - Were they trying to act like the murder was kind of, they were like, oh, well, of course this happened since they both had guns. Like was it kind of like that? - There was one, well, the one where they twisted my words. She basically, it wasn't even about, a lot of it was kind of giving the backstory of my dad's political affiliation and, you know, they said some, she said something about Trump and I think it was like God's guns in ballet or something was the title of it. I can't really remember that was like a phrase that was used in it and I just remember thinking, like that's not what this is. I thought this was a bad thought, this is about like, you know, what happened and then she said something along the lines of us, if we had his service outside, we spread his ashes on the beach. And it was during COVID, peak COVID. So it was, everybody was outside, you know, some people were in masks, some people weren't. It just kind of, you know, show up if you want to show up. - Totally. - And she twisted that into like, we didn't care about COVID or something or we were just like, And I was like, what about that is necessary? to talk about. Yeah, we can't have an outdoor service for my dad that was murdered. Yeah, also in like when we were on the beach it's windy like yeah, COVID wasn't really the forefront of our mind at that point. I don't even remember what she asked me where she got that narrative but when I read it I was like oh my god like she's making me look so politically affiliated and like that's not what I'm trying I'm trying to get justice for my dad and fight Ashley because she's not in prison yet and I want to know how bad she is. That makes me wonder too like as someone that was prominent in this like big media attention true crime case like what does your take on the true crime industry essentially that has like developed. I think I was first of all it's taken off so much in the last few years and I think I was kind of I mean I know it's been big forever but like I feel like with social media within the last five or six years I was kind of at that the cusp of it's like upcoming on social media all the Netflix documentaries and that's like the even because I know from behind the scenes getting talking to producers and talking to people that are trying to greenlit documentaries all the time it you know it just it's really popular like though this will sell so fast because everybody wants a piece of it this will sell so fast and because true crime is so big right now and your case is huge but I mean it it's just I think it's good to shine light on certain scenarios and show people you know like Ashley she was she cried wolf she was trying to say it was domestic violence she I think took kind of the spotlight from a lot of women who are actually in severe scenarios it also you know gave me a reason to say hey you know my dad had no one to turn to his mental health was bad let's talk about how like men's mental health even if he was you know raising his voice at one point he had no where to turn to because it's it's kind of typical men don't really talk about their feelings and you know um so it kind of shines a light I felt like it's it's a positive thing because it's shining light on different scenarios that really need to be talked about but at the same time it's so weird even right now with the few big trials going on of people just get very parasocial with true crime like their attorneys and you know everybody in the case and you know they're speculating all of these things online it's like that's not actually is what what's happening in the courtroom you're not there you don't know what's going on you don't know what the jury is looking at like you can't see them on TV um so I think it's just it's really frustrating to see people get so involved in parasocial and I don't know I mean it's also everything is taken out of context when court cases are shown on TV I made like a side eye at one point when Ashley was testifying and it it screen grads immediately put on reddit people were saying that I was being a brat in the courtroom I was so disrespectful Ashley and I was like I was laughing at something because my my dad's high school sweetheart made a joke and I thought it wasn't even about Ashley on stand it was about something to do with me and I laughed a little bit and then people took that put it on on the every chat room that you could find like with this little brat oh my god you kidding me I can't win with anything and your social media became a topic in the courtroom as well right yeah I got it monished for by the judge for posting a tiktok um it wasn't anything to do with what people were saying in the trial or you know but I understand you know I I said I testified I didn't say anything about anything else and I also there was a reporter that came up to me at the end of that day and or the the night before and I was just kind of like briefly interaction with this reporter but somebody from her team saw me speaking with this reporter and I was still like under oath technically I wasn't supposed to be in the courtroom at all but because I was a victim of the crime I got to be in the courtroom because it was my dad so the judge made sure I knew that saying hey you're not allowed to talk about this still technically you're still under oath you can't go and say anything and then if she was testifying I'd had to step out of the courtroom because they didn't want the jury to think that like it was conflicting because I was supposed to come back in the rebuttal which I did um so they didn't want kind of my testimony to conflict with her as I guess because I had heard hers and then I'd come back in the rebuttal and like say something that went against what she said I don't know so I was under oath speaking to the reporter and the hall just briefly I don't even think they had the recording or anything and her team saw that and then I posted a funny TikTok saying well I just testified in my dad's murder trial and my crush is back home watching and I mean it blew up immediately and so I originally got called back on stand because of the reporter scenario and I was getting questioned by her attorney and he brought up my TikTok and he said we'll pull out your phone and that's when the judge was like all right no now we're badgering stop like this wasn't even about her social media this is about her talking the reporter and then he kind of gave me a slap on the wrist and I went home that day I was like I don't want to do that anymore I've been on stand too much how many days did this go on for two weeks ten days did you try to make contact with Ashley at all or like eye contact with her eye contact during yes um she wouldn't look at me she'd either look at her floor like me scribbling something on her paper and then before the trial even started I don't think I was legally allowed to make contact with her um especially after the pre-trial but yeah that was that I really did try it and so I didn't get the opportunity to kind of say my piece because obviously I could only test files to what they asked me on stand um and then I also wasn't allowed to talk to the media because I was kind of with my book I wanted to save every I was I knew I was actively writing the book so I have all the things I want to say that I can't you know give it out right now um so I waited to kind of save my piece with her in my victim's impact statement and I actually got to watch that that they posted it on it's on YouTube but the thing that surprised me which I don't know a lot about the rules of court and like I'm sure you know way more than you want to know at this point yeah I guess but they interrupt you a lot yeah that was frustrating because they were going off of murder one which this was not a murder one case um I guess it was the the the rules that they were going off of really didn't apply to this trial so it was kind of frustrating that he was kept budding in I wasn't supposed to speak directly to her and I kept acknowledging her in my impact statement and so that's why he kept stopping me and then I guess some of it was like I don't even know like the I don't it wasn't supposed to speak directly to her and so because I was acknowledging her if he made me stop and then that's when Susanne O'Donnell came up and kind of read through before I said anything else and she's like just take out that part and so I took it out why in my opinion should you be able to say whatever you want to her at that point for your victim impact statement I thought too but I got like every banger that I had written in there like I got it in there so at least I got a couple punches in yeah what was the punch that they made you take out that you wanted to say I can't even honestly I don't remember it was I think it it had to do with her treating me which technically wasn't how that impacted like her crime impacted me that was just how she personally impacted me so that's kind of the conflicting thing that's a good thing I'm not the judge because I'd be like let her say her piece I know like I did judge why it was like he was I thought he was really fair so I was really happy with him but at the same time I was like I thought we are friends now like she just got convicted of murder like her manslaughter like let me just say my thing yeah thank you to OCEA for sponsoring this portion of today's episode how often are we sold so many promises from skincare they're over promising and under delivering let's be honest when it really just needs to be clean and simple when it comes to skincare that is why I am so excited that I found my holy grail for my skin that is OCEA's clean seaweed powered skincare from the sea I personally have been loving their hyaluronic acid serum for after the shower it doesn't feel heavy or sticky or gooey on my skin it's still like over 100 degrees in Arizona so I need to be able to wear shorts with confidence I love the way that OCEA makes my skin look especially after a nice good shave and for 30 years OCEA has stayed consistent with clean clinically tested skincare from the sea their hyaluronic body serum is made for everyday use or when your skin is in need of revival it is cooling refreshing weightless and powerfully hydrating they use an artisanal process that infuses vitamins minerals and antioxidants and it's bottled at peak potency for a silky smooth full body glow go to OCEA malibu dot com and get 10% off your first order with code unplanned that's OCEA malibu dot com code unplanned so she was sentenced to 20 years yeah and then 10 probation yeah are you do you feel like that's just a serve for your dad yeah I mean obviously I would like her behind bars forever um but I think it was considering she could have walked away not guilty at all and so I honestly that child just waiting for the trial and the trial itself and the pre-trial I mean the pre-trial was diagnosed with PTSD afterwards because it pal just I saw all topsy pictures of my dad I was not supposed to see so I couldn't sleep for weeks after that and I went to a psychiatrist just because I was like I need somebody now like somebody used to help me and then the trial anticipating it going through it and then it being done I was like you know what she is in prison for 20 years and that is good with me as long as this is behind me I'm good And then she actually was working. time off and back in this past January assaulted a correctional officer and got put in solitary confinement and then got moved into a different prison and got all of her time put back on. So it really just goes to show like she is insane, it wasn't just this one time act like she went and she didn't get her way I guess in court or in prison and hit a cop. Wow, yeah. You just casually mentioned though that she could have like gotten off, was there actually a chance that she was going to get off scot free? I mean, yeah, she would have been found not guilty or I guess she would have been like the standard ground. Yes, well, standard ground was the hearing the pretrial and then she would have been found. It was either manslaughter, murder, shoe or self defense. So if she would have been like it was not guilty by self defense, but the standard ground law was pulled in for the pretrial because it was either she was saying, hey, get off my property and defending her property so she had a right to attack or it was murder trial. So it ended up obviously getting ruled to be a murder trial, but then I guess the three options were manslaughter, murder, two or self defense. It seems like you have peace with the verdict, but like as an outsider looking in, why is it like, I don't know, 20 years is a long time, but still I'm like, she killed your dad, like why have she not away for life? I guess it's just all the different specifics of that night and what happened is why she's not. Yeah, I think there was like, I mean, there wasn't and I think it was premeditated, but there wasn't enough evidence to point towards that. So it was like there was just so much evidence that either it wasn't substantial enough or because of the way the trial fell with, you know, the state, it just, it didn't, those, the cards didn't lay right I guess and so, yeah, I mean, as long, I was just at that point just content that she got anything because again, she was playing the domestic violence kind of battered wife syndrome card, which I didn't think was fair to all the other women, but then also, I mean, she was like, there was, you know, a chance that the jury would have played into that and they would have said, oh, it was self defense. So I was just kind of worried that they were going to take her, her bait. So you, when you heard about the correctional officer, like the incident and then her getting time added on, is there someone letting you know as like a direct victim of like the crime that put her away, letting you know, or you're just hearing it? Somebody comments trial updates on my Instagram. Oh, don't know. You're kidding. Yeah, thank you. Which again, it's like, I was grateful in that moment that they did that, but kind of goes back to people get really parasocial with these true crime cases. And so she's had commented multiple times about different things that had happened along the way. And then I found out sure enough from, she commented I was like, that's not true. So I googled it and it was in a Reddit thread. And I found the paperwork in a Reddit thread. So people like are finding, I don't know how they find these things so fast, but yeah. See, in my head, I'm like, I like with justice, I'm like, they're going to let everyone know like the person that they put away is like, because don't they like sometimes let people know if they've like switched prisons or it's probably only in certain types of cases. I didn't get that email in my head, I'm like, I wish that they could just inform you all the time. Like, she's still like, I did get updates a lot with that, the whole system. And they would send me emails, but then after a while, I mean, once you got put in prison, there really wasn't other than the appeal. I got notified with her appeal. And then I think when it got denied or when it was no longer within the time frame that she had to submit all the paperwork for it, get approved, I got an email then. And then yeah. Any update after that. It's just. You're like, I have a ghost cowboy customer service to work on. People, no, but people also, or message goes cowboy about it too. Somebody emailed me and said she saw either the case or she saw my book or something. And she was like, I went to high school with your mom and back and, you know, how long it's just like some sweet old Florence lady. She's like, I was a few years older than your mom, but I have pictures of her in my year book. She sent me my mom's pictures and I was like, this is the craziest customer service email I've ever gotten. It was like a response to a marketing thing to it wasn't even like, like I guess I had sent out a blast email and she just responded to one of them, which half the time I don't respond to those, but a jogger memory. Yeah. Yeah. It's like this is really crazy. And I think, I think my favorite thing about your brand is just the beautiful story behind the name ghost cowboy. Can you explain that for people? So I mean, I say that it has to do with my dad and all of that. I was trying to set. Sorry. I was trying to set you up. I've heard you on podcasts where you're like, you're like, I literally just made that name up. I think there is a good quote somewhere online where people are like, Oh, it's because your dad was, you know, he's Texas, the ghost now or something. No, I pulled the name out of nowhere. I was like, I have to have a domain within, you know, I was giving myself an ADHD brain. Like, I was going to just go ham on the details. Yeah. It was literally not important. And I think it was just like a random go like name generator or something. Like, I just like ghost cowboy boom. That's it. Domain name bought. And then it just went from there. Nice. And then my book, Ghost Girl, that was not my decision either, but it worked out well. Yeah. Yeah. All right. Marketing. Cool. Right. Yeah. And then people will hear about your storefront and your and like all the cool shirts that you make. I know. I already picked out my of several. I'm like, I can't wait to. Just send them to me. Absolutely. No. I love it. I love it. I love it. I love it. I love it. Yeah. Your style is so cool. Thank you. I mean, it's really just because I didn't. I knew how to draw. And I didn't know how to do graphic design, but I wanted to make graphic t-shirts. So I just started drawing stuff and putting it on t-shirts and it worked out. I guess. That's amazing. Yeah. What's been the overall response so far to the book? Everybody is very positive. I wouldn't say there's one. The only thing that people, I think one, Goodreads review that I got was too much young slang. I was like, well, I'm 25. I was 21 when I started writing this so a little bit. But no, it's been an immense amount of good feedback. And so many people have said, I mean, I didn't realize. Obviously, I knew that a lot of people go through grief in very different ways and different scenarios. But so many people have said that I put grief into words that they were feeling, but never able to kind of vocalize, which felt really good. Because I think that's how I felt for so long. And just to know, I kind of struck a chord with so many people and resonated with so many people. It's been really, really great. I read it on my Kindle and I was like, there's so many things I was highlighting. Because I was like, it's so like the way that you are able to just paint pictures to emotions is like, I mean, I know I'm not the first to tell you this, but this book is so well written. You would have thought that you were, this was your thing that you did. Like you write books. And this was not your first book. I dropped out of school like I thought that what I'm doing. It was so beautiful. Thank you. And like, and also I love the way, like, young slang, but your voice was so like so present in it too. Like it was just, it was so easy to read. But then also just like, there was a depth to it that was very surprising and just, there's so many things I'm like, I'm going to go back and look at my highlights often because it was just so. Thank you. So, there's so many things that stood out to me that I'm like, I'm going to remember that part about your story. Thank you. Yeah, I just, I feel like I was trying to make it seem like a phone call to a friend. Just because I'm such a casual person and I do, I know I have emotional depth, then I also, I know how to like, kind of put it into words in a way that, you know, it's less of an impact. It's not as, because sometimes being very vulnerable was really, really scary for a lot of people. So I think if you can do it in a casual way where it still has the same impact, but you feel like you're really kind of sympathizing and empathizing with so many people, I think it makes it a lot easier to kind of, for people to process their emotions. You know, even I still have like this emotional side of me that I'm scared to kind of open that kind of worms. And so I have to do it in a way, in my brain that makes it just way more casual. Yeah. I guess with all the different avenues your art, your book, it seems like you're able to express your emotions in other ways. And you know, laugh about the crazy stuff that's happened to you rather than sit into this like, this place of why me and, you know, get stuck in life. So I respect that a lot. Thanks. I think it's really cool to how you've cultivated an audience that is like, like you said earlier, like, uniquely, I'm having a hard time with my brains. No, you're good. You're good. You just had a baby three weeks ago. I know. I'm like, you're a rock star. You're so nice. Yeah. Well, it's going to come just one second. Oh, it came to me. I remember you writing in your book about how there's like, say you had lost your parents when you were like 10 or 11 or younger, you know, everything would have been taken care of for you. Right. But you were like 90, like freshly adult, like legal adult. And it seems like there's like a gap in the system of like these, like, you know, you're technically an adult, but you're just still getting on your feet. Yeah. And like, I guess like, what would you like to see change or what would you like? What would you like for people that are in your similar situation where they're like finding themselves, like as an orphan, but as an adult, like, you know, this gap that's in this young adulthood period? I mean, first of all, you're allowed to make the orphan jokes, even if you're technically ugly-glaed. I'm not technically an orphan anymore. - Yeah, I just wanna say that. - Yeah, like you're totally allowed to. It's fine, I still do. Um, it's just, I mean, it's scary, but being an adult is scary too. Even if I had both my parents now, I would still probably be freaking out all the time. I know a lot of my friends are coming out. I'm 25, we're about to turn 26. They're like, oh my gosh, I have to figure out health insurance next year. So it's just like, it's kind of, it's scary no matter what. So no matter what, you know, even if you are kind of dealt these cards it makes it a little bit harder. It's only gonna make you so much stronger on the, on the other side. 'Cause now I'm, you know, talking to my best friend about, okay, well, here's what you need to do to, you know, when you get off of your parents' phone bill or they're looking, I know somebody is looking at financing a truck or looking to go buy a truck. And I'm like, okay, well, here's how I did it. My credit score wasn't great, but, you know, here's how I did it. And it worked out for me. Or just like any of these scenarios where you're kind of supposed to have a parent to guide you or an adult to guide you and you don't, you, if you figure it out you're gonna be so much further ahead than your peers. And now I get to help all of my friends and, you know, family that are kind of sweet at that stepping stone. So yeah. - Is there any particular thing like, when you, like, look ahead in your life, like this part particularly stings the most because you've now found yourself like 25 in parent lists. Like, is there any like tender point that you're like, this, this is particularly bad when you think about just the last 10 years or like kind of moving forward and forward? - Honestly, now that I'm getting to the age where everyone is starting to get married and engage, I think about how I don't have parents to like not, I don't really care about funding the wedding, but being at the wedding, just these big milestones that I have to look forward to still, they're not here to share with me and like, my dad taught me how to paint and draw. And I wanted to be an illustrator and own my own business from as little as I could hold a pencil, you know. So for me to be doing all these things that I wanted to do growing up and he kind of was paving the way and teaching me and showing me how to, you know, do he, I knew what a domain name was. I knew what GoDaddy was at like 12 years old, the website where you can buy a domain 'cause my dad taught me all these things. - That's awesome. - So the fact that I'm doing it now and like, I'm not, they're not here to share these moments with me kind of things a little bit. And then I mean, yeah, that would probably be my biggest thing is like just the big milestones to come and my parents aren't gonna be there, but I mean, it's okay. I think that everything in my brain, I've always said this is everything happens for a reason. So I haven't quite figured out the reason. I especially didn't know right when it all started to happen, but I'm still kind of now looking back and like, oh, I think, I think this was my reason. I think helping so many people is my reason, is the reason that this all happened. - Yeah, I mean, I think you have to, you have to turn your pain into purpose, right? And it's so funny. I love that you said everything happens for a reason because I feel like if someone would have told you that, right, when everything was happening, probably wouldn't have wanted to hear that then, but here you are saying it. Why are you saying it? - Yeah, why are you saying it? - My dad told me that. So I mean, I had a bit of like a catastrophized diva way, growing up like, oh my gosh, this is the worst thing ever to happen to me, you know? And my dad would always be like, "Eva, everything always works out. Everything happens for a reason." You know, he kind of made me think about, there was, I remember just one scenario where I think I had a crush on a boy and, you know, I was like 17 and it wasn't going the way I wanted it to. And he was like, when have you ever what, he said it in a way that it was so profound and I'm like, how did he say it? When have you ever wanted something and didn't either get that thing or something better? And I was like, I kind of thought I was like, I've always gotten what I wanted, whether it be what I actually wanted or something better, it kind of came about it in a different way. That's, it's always worked out. And my dad drilled that into my head. And just my parents growing up to be grateful. I mean, my mom made me write out three things that I was grateful for every single day. My mom did a little thing with me in growing up where we had two flowers in the house. One was on one side of the house. One was on the other side. Both got equal amounts of sunlight. Both we had to water every single day. One I would say mean things to. One I would say nice things to. And she showed me, look, the mean flower is dying because your energy and your words have impact. So I just knew when everything happened in my head, I was like, all right, they taught me everything happens for a reason. Everything always works out and just to speak positivity. And you're going to have a lot more things to be grateful for. And, you know, have more of a reason to move forward than to just soak and focus on the negative. I feel like you have the ultimate candy salad line. I love those videos where people just trauma dump and do the candy salad on TikTok. That people are in my comments. Anytime I start with like, oh, my mom died. And then my dad was murdered. All the comments are, and I brought the gummy worms. Oh yeah, that's kind of how it feels. I love that. I love that. And like, I mean, really the way that I first saw, like your videos was on TikTok. It was just, it's such a powerful line to hear. You say, yeah, my mom's at when I was 14. And then nine months later, my dad made it married to 23 year old. And then five years later, after that, she murdered him. And then you just like, get into whatever your video is. And every time I'm just like, holy crap. There was one that's like, it's kind of picking up now where it's like, here's, I said that. And then I was like, and here's my outfit. Like, I don't know. It's the day, yeah. It's kind of, I mean, I feel like I'm kind of numb to it at that point. But and it's more of a joke. And I think people, if they don't know me and they see that, they're like, what the hell is this girl talking about? Then people, they know me like, I was just Eva. She's just making a joke, it's fine. So. Have you ever met someone that has had like a similar f'd up pass to you? Yes, you have. You would be shocked at how many people's parents are murdered. No, I'm not kidding. I, there was a hurricane not last year, two years ago. And so my friend and I, we both live on, well, she actually lives in Africa now. But when she lives on all the palms, she lived right down the road. She would ride her bike over and, you know, stop and get like a case of whatever at the liquor store. And it was a hurricane party. That's like a, do you all like hurricane parties or a thing? Oh my God, yeah. Are you having a tag one time in high school? I feel like it's a hurricane party. Oh my God, I think you're supposed to like, evacuate and take shelter. Not, that's if you're not from like, so, okay. In Charleston, specifically, there's this cow that spins. It's the Coburg cow. And it's like this huge cow statue. And it's for like the Coburg Melt Company. And when the Coburg cow comes down, that's when you know it's gonna be like a pretty decent storm. But yeah, hurricane parties. Everyone's just like, all right, we're off work. The roads are flooded because they flood so easily. So let's just party. So we were all hunkering down on my back porch. So when the rain had just started and my friend, one of my very good friends, she was like, oh, my friend from high school's coming over. You're gonna love her. And she has a crazy story too. I'll let her. She knows your story about let her tell you hers. And she told me she was like, we all started drinking, making spritzes on the porch. And she was like, yeah, so my brother was murdered. And I've met multiple people since then that it's pretty relative. I was sitting at a restaurant the other day with my boyfriend's mom. And she had a girl that she kind of knew. And somehow they ran into each other. And we were talking, my book had just come out. And so we were kind of celebrating her. It was about to come out. And she was like, oh, what's your book about? And I said, it's a coming of age memoir. And the girl was like, oh, I told her like the brief synopsis of the story of what happened to me. And she was like, that's insane. My mom, my dad was murdered by my stepmom as well. And I mean, this was, and even my boyfriend's mom was like, I didn't know that about her. 'Cause she doesn't really talk about it. But I had just shared, so she decided to share her story. So yeah, people, I run into people all the time and they have crazy murder stories. - Wow. - Yeah. - Yeah, you probably hear about it. I mean, I'm sure people just feel comfortable to come talk to you about it. Because nobody else that effing understands that unless you've been through it, like there's no possible way for us to have even an inkling of what you've been through. - Yeah. - So that's kind of cool that people, that you guys are, that you're at least able to like find community with other people that have been through some really horrible things. - Yeah, which I mean, I am so grateful that I get to help other people see that there's a lot of things in the tunnel. And kind of, I hope that I can inspire people to kind of reshape how they look at things. If it's a negative thing, you know, maybe just find the positivity in it somehow. And it's kind of even more shifted to like running and mindset and, you know, do hard things for yourself. Like the Boston, I'm trying to qualify for the Boston Marathon in December. And a lot of people ask, well, what is the goal, or why do you want to do Boston? What's so special about Boston Marathon? I said, it's not running Boston. It's qualifying for it. 'Cause everything in my life right now, up into this point, has been a decision that somebody else has made, you know, either my mom, I didn't choose for my mom, did I, didn't choose for my dad to get remarried, I didn't choose for him to get murdered. But I can choose qualifying for the Boston because I have to put myself through that training period. Like that training block, I have to do the hard work and prove to myself that I can do hard things even though it is my choice. So I just want people to know like you can, you can do hard things, you can get through hard things. It's, there's always a positive outlook on it. And, you know, I think it is, it's kind of where the people now come to me. That's like the number 1D in my get is like, well, this just happened to me. How did you do this? I'm like, I can't respond to everyone all the time, but I'm so glad that people can find comfort in the way that I help manage things. - Well, your story is truly a story of resilience. And I think you summarize it so well, and closing it with talking about the Cypress trees and how they learn to be self-sufficient in the marsh. And it's just like, the way you share your story with so much vulnerability. But then, and so it's just, it's so candid. It's so inspiring. And I think that anyone could pick a book up and enjoy it and also just be changed because of it. So thank you for talking with us. - Yeah, thank you so much. - And I do wanna say, like, I can only imagine how proud your mom and dad would be of you. - Thank you. - And I wish you were here to be able to tell you that. But I'm very emotional all the time, but I just wish that they could tell you that. But I just can only imagine how proud of you that they would be, like, in the way that you share your story and the way that you steer your platform and your business and, like, are becoming such an independent, strong adult. Like, - Thank you. - It's amazing. - Thank you. - Thank you so much. Thank you. - This is fun. - She's a new New York Times best-selling author. So definitely pick up a copy of Ghost Girl. And you guys, we will see you next time. - Yeah, I also wanna say, like, we talked about, like, literally the most sensitive topics so casually, because you have, like, opened that floor up. But so I just wanna say, like, thank you for having that conversation. - Absolutely. - It's so heavy and I know it's probably, like, you're like, "This isn't fun for me to talk about." - I know, it's fine. I'm like an open book, I really appreciate it. - Yeah. - Seriously. - Pick up a copy. - Pick up a copy, everybody. Awesome. Thank you. - Thank you. - Yeah.