Speaker 1Hi there. Welcome back or welcome to Recovering Out Loud podcast, the show where we get real about mental health and addiction. I'm so glad you're here. If you or someone you love is struggling with drugs or alcohol, please reach out for help. Send me a message on all social media platforms at recoveringoutloudpod or by email at recoveringoutloudpod at gmail.com. You are no longer alone.
Speaker 2Listen, we're pretty much talking about like the darkest things, like what is there to not say?
Speaker 1Yeah. Yeah. I mean, addiction, alcoholism, it's pretty dark, right? Like there was a lot of dark moments. And I have to remember that because I forget. I'm a good forgetter, you know?
Speaker 2How long have you been sober?
Speaker 1So I'm coming up on, well, I just had six months again.
Speaker 2Nice.
Speaker 1Yeah. After I had eight years, seven and a half, and then I went back out with, started with steroids, which oddly enough, everybody, like I post videos about it and stuff. And that's what I started doing now. I don't know why, but I enjoy it. Helps one or two people here and there. So why not? And I have fun doing it. People always ask me, they're like, I don't get it. Like, how does steroids mean like equal relapse? And I, you know, some people that aren't, people in addiction would probably make the connection that over time, well, I'm going to try this. Now I'm going to try this. Now I'm going to try this.
Speaker 2It's like fucking nasal sprays, you know? It's just like, it's just, everything is different. You're just trying to feel different, be different. Everything's.
Speaker 1Yeah. There's some kind of itch I need to scratch, right? Or some kind of. God-sized hole, as they say, some kind of hole that I'm trying to fill. And for me, it was purely bandy. Are you going to, do you need that? No, it's fine. Are you sure? Caitlin, thank you so much for coming down. I appreciate it. Welcome to Recovering Out Loud. Yeah. I was, you know, referred to you by one of my mom's friends, but now she's becoming my friend and she's a great woman. So I appreciate that. And I'm always looking for people to have on. And so thank you. Thank you. Yeah. I know it was a bit, how was your day? It was a bit of a trek getting down here.
Speaker 2Yeah, it was really fun. My car was like, not today.
Speaker 1It's too hot for me.
Speaker 2Yeah. No, my battery. I drive a lot. My battery's like, we're done.
Speaker 1Yeah. And then, so you pivoted and I just, I don't know. I find it funny that like, things like that used to ruin my fucking week. You can swear by the way. I don't know if you want to, you can talk about drugs. We like talking about drugs on here. They used to like ruin my week. Right. And it's like, you sent me a message. You're like, I'm going to take an Uber. And I just, I, sometimes I like, I just, it sounds so simple to a lot of people, but for me, that was like, not possible to like fix problems. Right. It was like, I had to drink or use drugs to like cope with the next stage in the day. Right. And, uh, I feel like, you know, the only thing to do was drink. Right. That was the only choice I had, you know? Yeah. Um, so why don't you tell us a little bit about, you know, how you got into recovery, what life was like and, uh, yeah. Like how, how did you get into recovery? What happened?
Speaker 2Um, I'm one of those lucky people where my dad, uh, was in the program and, um, he got sober when I was probably five years old. So I was always that kid that was kind of. Sorry. That's, I feel like it's my fault running around. Yeah. I'm like an Italian. That's not Italian. I'm gonna do it. Um, yeah. So like I was exposed at a really young age, um, you know, and I think it was like, it was super cool to be a part of that. Um, ruined my whole career because I was, everyone's like, Oh, you know, go to this, go to a meeting, blah, blah, blah. But, um, I would say I probably, you know, qualified to get into recovery at about 12 years old, 15. I was already like full flight. Um, you know, I, I started using drugs after probably about 12. Um, my parents split up and it was just kind of like, I just had this like huge hole. Like, I don't know what to, what to call it really, but I just felt like I was never good enough. Um, you know, if people accepted me, if people loved me, if people like, I don't know, I just needed validation all the time, but it was never enough. Right. Just like drugs, alcohol, it was never enough. Um, 14 years old, I, uh, I lost my virginity to rape and my parents were amazing. They don't drink, don't do drugs, don't hang out with boys. They're bad. Don't go out after nine. I did all those things. So, you know, I, I was like, I can't say anything because they're, they're going to get mad. My dad's going to yell at me. My mom's going to be disappointed. So I just pushed it down and put a smile on my face and just went back to, you know, the worst part is that I thought it was my fault because I did all of those things. Um, you know, and today I work with a lot of young people and I get to share that with them. I get to share, you know, the true definition of consent because like, you know, I don't know about you, but kindergarten, it was yes means yes and no means no. And I was like, bro, I have said yes so many times, but it, but I meant no, right. I was just, I just felt like I could not speak up for myself or I couldn't stand my ground. I felt like, you know, what if these people are going to get mad at me or they're not going to like me? Um, I was just, I was crippled with fear and crippled with anxiety. So, when I was about 15, um, I landed in my first treatment center. So my dad had told me, um, you know, I'm going to take you on a birthday trip. It was July. My birthday's in September. And he's like, we're going to drive down to Kentucky and we're going to see some friends or sorry, we're going to hang out with some friends in Kentucky. And then we're going to go to Georgia and then we're going to land in, um, oh my God, Disney world in Florida. And I was like, yeah, all right. You know, that seems pretty cool. Um, so we drove down with my brother, everyone's all like sad and upset. And I was like, we're going to Disney world. Like, this is amazing. Why is everyone so sad? Um, you know, and, and he had to trick me because if he would have said, I'm taking you to a treatment center in the States, I would have bolted. Right. Um, so we get there, you know, everyone's miserable. We end up in, uh, Clayton, Georgia, the bottom of the Appalachian mountains. We stay the night. Um, the next morning, my dad said, you know, pack your bags. We're and then, uh, two transporters come and pick me up and I bolted across the freeway and there's nothing like you just look both sides and it's just flat. Right. Um, and I just remember feeling like, how could you do this to me? Like what's even happening. I had no idea what was going on. Um, I knew that what was happening in my life at that time, because you know, addiction is very progressive as we know. Um, so, you know, 14, 15 years old, I'm selling my body in Parkdale for this illness. Right. Um, I couldn't go a certain amount of time without putting something into my body. And it was, it was awful. So I didn't like what I was doing. I didn't necessarily enjoy the people I was hanging out with, but I felt like you liked me better. I felt like you thought I was prettier. My idea of, of love was if you had sex with me, it meant you loved me. And if you didn't, there was something wrong with me. So all of my behaviors, the way that I was acting, the people I was hanging out with, I had no business hanging out with, but it all just felt better. You know, if you were like, Hey, Caitlin, what do you want to do? I'd be like, I don't know. What do you want to do? Cause again, God forbid I say, you know what, let's chill out and watch a horror movie. And you're like, that's stupid. Let's go out and do something fun. Um, I was so crippled with fear on how people would view me and see me and judge me. Like I was that kid in class that couldn't raise their hand because I was so scared of saying the wrong thing. I was so scared of looking stupid or looking dumb and everyone pointing at me and laughing. Um, I just had no, I had no self-worth and no self-esteem. Um, so, you know, I get to this, it was like a wilderness detox program. Yeah. I'm pretty sure it's shut down now. Um, it's like, you know, you're coming down and like, you got bugs and you're twitching and itchy and all that stuff. Like we, we're in the wilderness. So like, I'm like, are the spiders there? Are they not? Like it was terrible, but I was there for about eight weeks. And again, I have like, I couldn't understand why I was there. Like, really? I knew that, okay, I'm using drugs. I'm 15. It's, you know, but everybody I was hanging out with was doing that. So it felt normal. It felt better, felt better than being alone. It felt better than, you know, anything else because I wasn't getting what I needed otherwise. So it had to come from other people. And those were the people that were, were giving it to me. The drugs were giving it to me. Um, so I ended up completing the eight week program and they're like, yeah, you're graduating. This is great. And I was like, in my head thinking about, okay, I'm going to go back to my boyfriend. I'm going to dye my hair. I'm going to like, it was just so superficial. And I just couldn't wait to get back home so I could start doing drugs again, start smoking cigarettes again, go back to these people. What did I miss? I have like the biggest FOMO ever, right? I'm like, I need to know what's going on at all. And I'm like, I need to know what's going on at all. And I'm like, I need to know what's going on at all times. Um, and they're like, no, you're not going home. You're therapeutic boarding school like a residential treatment program in utah i dropped out of school in grade 10 i had no idea where utah was and um so it was a 9 to 12 month program i was there for two years and nine months um so it was one of those programs that got shut down for abuse the troubled teen centers um and it was it was awful like i went in with a certain amount of trauma and I left with way more trauma. You know, again, like I don't remember learning in school how to communicate, how to talk about feelings, you know, what's okay, what's not. Like I don't remember learning these skills. So I just kind of created my own way of shutting down, right? Things got really hard. I would shut down. Things would be too painful. I'd go get high. And that's what happened. And I remember sitting in a therapy session with my dad and my therapist and back then it was just speakerphone. And I had said, I want to kill myself. And I have no idea where that came from because I didn't know feelings. I don't think I learned my feelings until I got sober at 26. I thought if you smiled, you were happy. If you cried, you were sad and you yelled, you're mad. But it's way more complex than that. And my therapist's reaction was to go into his bag and grab his gun and throw it at me and say, why don't you kill yourself?
Speaker 1Jesus Christ.
Speaker 2And my dad's on the phone. And when I told him what happened, he said, when are you going to stop lying? Because my track record, right? I'm a liar. It just happens. And that's pretty out there. That's pretty wild. But I just remember in that moment feeling like I don't even know where those words came from, but my life felt so hard that my solution was to kill myself. That my feelings are too strong. Things seem way too complex that I need to die. There's just got to be a way to die. There's got to be no other way. And then I was put on what was called reflection. So you weren't allowed to talk. You had to wear hospital scrubs, sit on the floor. We were on a number system. So number one is I have to go to the bathroom. Number two is I want a drink of water, et cetera. And I didn't talk for an entire year. I was forced to sit on the ground. They would put our mattress in the doorway so that they could watch us sleep at night. They would walk by and kick the mattress. It wasn't the best place. And I somehow graduated this program after almost three years of being there. So I was about 18 years old. I came home and I kind of felt different. I felt like I've been sober. I don't smoke cigarettes anymore. I graduated high school there. I felt almost like maybe I could live my life. I felt like I could live my life. I felt like I could live my life. I got accepted into, at that time, Ryerson University for psychology. And I kind of felt smart, you know, like, look at me. I dropped out of school in grade 10, but now I'm accepted into university. And when I was a kid, before I had started kindergarten, I don't know why I remember this. I'd asked my dad, how do you make friends? And he said, you put your hand out and you introduce yourself. You say, hi, my name is Caitlin. Do you want to be my friend? And so when I started university... I was like, you know, like, how do you make friends, right? Because I'm like, back in Toronto, I have no friends anymore. I'm, again, like that scared little girl of not being able to raise her hand in a classroom of 30. I'm now in a classroom of 200. So, you know, the kids sitting around me, I was like, hey, guys, how are you? Like, do you want to be my friend? Like, should we start a study group? And they just like dead ass looked me in the face and were like, we already have one. And I was like, boom. You know, like, it's just that feeling of like abandonment and not being a part of and just really feeling judged and like, I'm not good enough. Everything came flooding back. And, you know, I hadn't, I should just back up. So when I was in the center, they told me like, you know, don't talk to your mom. She's really toxic, really unhealthy. We smoked weed together a couple of times when I was like 14, 15. Not the best thing, but like not the worst thing. My mother was, you know, she was unwell herself. She had a lot going on. And at that time, like they're like, what do you do? Like there wasn't help for her. You know, when I was 12, she tried to take her own life. And that was her solution. Again, she had four kids. My parents had divorced. She had a lot going on. And like, where do you reach out for help? Because like, we're just learning that today, you know, and this is we're going back 30 years ago. I know I'm only like 18 now, but.
Speaker 1Oh, I thought you meant in the story.
Speaker 2Cut that part out.
Speaker 1What a donkey. Right over my head.
Speaker 2Now I just like totally effed where I was.
Speaker 1You're not 18?
Speaker 2Right? Double, unfortunately. So, so yeah. So I had told her, you know, like you're unhealthy. I can't talk to you. And meanwhile, I was the one sitting in a residential treatment center at 16 years old. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And you know what? She just looked at me and she said, I understand. And when I got out of the center, I remember I was like, it was like Christmas time. I was 19. My birthday is in September. So I remember calling her because I was like, why don't we talk? Like it just, I had been so brainwashed in this place. And so like, it just didn't even make sense. And I remember I called her and my aunt had actually called me because she missed the call. And she said, your mom. just left she's rushing home to come and call you she was so excited that you called um and she called me and it was like fireworks went off it was like I had my mom back you know and I always say that she wasn't the best mom but she was the most amazing friend I had everything I needed everything I wanted um you know she did the best with with what she had and I just think that you know she also needed help and she didn't know where to go and she didn't you know I didn't know how to ask for help and I feel like you know she also had that I'm half my dad and half my mom so you know um and the first time that we got together um she had actually told me that she had cancer and nine months later she passed away so all of those feelings when I was younger um I just came flooding back and again I don't know how to communicate I don't know how to tell you what's going on I don't know how to ask for help I don't know how to ask for help I don't know how to say I'm in so much pain right now can you help me can you take me to a meet like you know what I mean I I didn't have those skills because in this center we were just kind of locked up you know I had like sobered up um but aside from that there were no new coping skills so I remembered what worked and that was drugs and alcohol so uh you know I'm in university I drop out because you know I'm in university I drop out because you know I'm in university I drop out because you know I'm in university I drop out because you know I'm in university I drop out because you and then I had four and then three and then two and then one and then I failed the only one that I was taking because again I didn't feel a part of I felt like people were judging me nobody wanted to be my friend when I extended my hand and was brave and you know reached out um and so I ended up uh dropping out and I was working in this French cafe and it was great but again I started drinking and you know we know how that goes right um that job went you know turned into a cafe and a supper club and then it was a bar and then it was a nightclub and then I'm working massage and then I'm full-blown doing sex work again because you know I have a thousand dollar a day habit I can't go five minutes without putting something into my body and like what job can you work right I I was a disaster um from 20 until 26 it was awful you know I was in one relationship after the next that just you know like I mentioned earlier my idea of love is if you had sex with me it meant that you loved me and if you didn't there was something wrong with me um you know so I'm I'm looking in all the wrong places and I'm finding people that it didn't matter how you treated me if you said I love you that filled me that was enough for me um you know and my addiction just skyrocketed and you know I got engaged I think I was about 21 and he was really abusive um you know he used to beat the crap out of me and then he would start to cry and be like I love you and I would say oh he's sorry you know he loves me because I was so broken I felt so empty inside that I needed you to tell me I was pretty I needed you to tell me I was good enough because I didn't know how to do those things for myself um so even though this person was abusing me physically mentally emotionally spiritually it was still better than being alone um you know and and we get high and then we'd forget about everything and then it would run out um you know and I uh I uh went with his family on this camping trip way up north um and you know we were out looking for for drugs because that's what you do on a camping trip you know it was like a party campsite they got here somewhere a polish camping site and uh you know we're like we'll split up and we'll go fucking find some dope right yeah so um I just remember you know we're drinking and you know we're getting pretty hammered it's like the middle of the afternoon um and I asked these guys and they're like you know here here's a drink and uh I remember taking that drink and then I don't remember anything after that I remember waking up in a tent and you know not to go into detail but I remember I remember waking up in a tent and I remember waking up in a tent tail, but there were several males doing things. And again, like, how did this happen? You know, um, I need something to make me feel better and look at the position that I'm in. And then I was knocked out again and I came back and I had no clothes on and I was just like so ashamed and so scared and had no idea where I was. It was nighttime. I woke up, uh, I got out of this tent and I somehow found our tent and he was sleeping. You know, he, my, my fiance was just sleeping in the tent. And I remember like shaking him, waking him up. I'm like, you know, I was just right. You know, like all this stuff just happened and I'm scared. And, um, and he beat me up so badly and said, you know, called me terrible names. Um, and I, I ended up in the hospital and, um, I just remember, you know, a couple of days after that I called my dad and I'm like you know I really need help um I went to go live with him and I think it was maybe like two weeks and I go back right because we've sobered up he's really sorry we go to a meeting you know like things calm down and it's never gonna happen again because he's sorry and he loves me um and it happened again right and it's it's so hard because even today like I I work I work with people like myself and and different and it's the same thing and they say what's wrong with me and I say nothing there's nothing wrong with you you know um it's just that feeling inside that you're never going to find someone else or you're never good enough you're never going to be good enough um I was afraid of what if I'll never make it I'm stupid I'm not good enough I have zero self-esteem and self-worth even today I struggle you know like it's not like those vulnerabilities just disappear and we're cured it you know we work on it but um I always thought there was something wrong with me right and so I put myself in that position not on purpose but you know the next one comes around and the same thing happens and you know addiction doesn't really help um I was about 24 years old I met so we we separated he ended up leaving me and uh 24 years old I meet the love of my life this guy who you know I've said it a couple times already but my idea of love is if you had sex with me it meant that you loved me and if you didn't there was something wrong with me this person um you know I ended up in a trap house in Scarborough um you know trying to do what I had to do to get what I needed to get and I have a smile on my face and I'm you know looking cute but I'm dying I look like I'm dying but I feel like the smile just kind of shows you that I'm okay but inside I can't wait till I can leave I can't wait till I can get out of there so I can be alone and uh this guy walks in and he's like you know takes one look at me and he's like what are you doing here and he brings me into his room and he starts talking to me and he's making eye contact and I'm so uncomfortable I don't know about you but certain people that make eye contact I'm like you know I didn't want to look at people I didn't want you to look at me I would talk and I would look at the people around that was a hard thing to do right and um I just remember him asking me all of these questions and it just felt so amazing I felt so special like no one wanted to be around me I didn't have my family in my life you know I have three brothers and and my dad and they had all you know cut me off because it was a lot right like I'm what do you do like I don't think again there's no handbook yeah there's no template there's no handbook you know I was their only sister I'm my dad's only daughter and like to see what's happening is a lot so um you know we talk for a couple hours and you know he's giving me free drugs he's a drug dealer which was amazing right like jackpot and um he said can I drive you home and I was like what like I don't you don't want anything from me and then I started to feel really uncomfortable because I wasn't used to that I was used to doing things I didn't want to do to get what I had to get and he gave it to me and I was like I'm gonna do it for free these transactions yeah exactly and um you know he dropped me off at home gave me his number and he's like call me anytime and I was like what just happened you know um and I went into work and then I missed work and then I got fired because you gotta show up to keep your job yeah I was a server at this time and I was just high as a kite all the time um and and I got fired and uh so I called him and you know we had seen each other for a couple weeks so obviously you know we're in a relationship and uh you know that right yeah yeah we've dated twice you're gonna move in um but you know he introduced me to his family I met his kid um you know I met his friends he would take me on his ride-alongs when he sold drugs like I I felt part of the crew I felt cool I felt a part of you know and and he like sussed out all of my vulnerabilities he was like what you know he's checking all the boxes and I told him like you know I just lost my job I don't know what I'm gonna do and he says you know what we're gonna go on a trip I'm gonna take you somewhere and I don't know if you've been to Calgary in January but it's not very fun because I was like we're gonna go to the Bahamas we're gonna go you know California yeah fuck Disney World never um however when I did graduate that treatment center uh when I was 18 my friend and I we graduated two days apart we drove out to Disneyland oh nice we did a whole road trip it was epic yeah um but anyways yeah fuck Disney World so we go to Cal so I'm like all right whatever like Calgary yeah are there drugs are there gonna be drugs there so yeah obviously um and uh so he's like you know my friend is gonna come and I was like all right whatever and I'd met him before so I'm driving with these two guys um we're driving to Calgary so we get pulled over in Marathon Ontario middle of nowhere yeah it's like close to Manitoba it's close to the border and we get pulled over we're going like 20 kilometers in a BMW with no winter tires with like weed smoke billowing out the window so the officer's like you know asking routine questions he takes like two steps backwards and he goes you guys are under arrest um I'm so scared like I was always that person that was afraid of law enforcement because I was like ah no like you know I don't want to get in trouble like just so afraid um and uh so anyways you know he takes the two and he puts them in the same car and then he comes back and he starts talking to me we get brought back to the station um and I was so afraid because I was like I've never been in the situation like what do I do I'm in the middle of nowhere I get really sick if I don't use um I don't know what's gonna happen and so he brings me in for questioning and he's like you know who are these guys you're with and I said well my boyfriend and his friend and he said what's your boyfriend's name I said Mikey they were always Mikey right and uh and he goes that's not his name and then he told me his name and inside that feeling that I used to call my throw-up feeling right today I know it's fear anxiety just I'm scared um I I was shook and I'm like oh okay right smile just brushed it off like oh he gave me a fake name who cares um you know when he said uh they said that you were just some stripper they picked up um who needed a ride and so I'm now terrified um and anyways the his friend took the charges I later found out that Mikey was uh wanted on a whole slew of charges like kidnapping guns drought like just some bad stuff um he was like being deported but they let him go our legal system is you know yeah good lawyer you're good yeah and so they let him go um they let us all go because his friend took the charges anyways we get into his car and he takes one look at me and he says you're gonna have to work for me now now I realized today that that was his like that that's what he wanted the whole time like that was obviously the objective we're gonna take her to Calgary we're gonna traffic her whatever but this worked in his favor you know and so I'm like okay I'm gonna take her to Calgary I'm gonna take her because I said you're right it's my fault he's like the drugs if you weren't an addict like I wouldn't have to bring drugs he was a drug dealer right but I felt like you're right this is my fault this is all my fault I'll do whatever you want and I said yes and I talk a lot about consent because this was under manipulation this was what he wanted the entire time that was the purpose of the trip so I said yes not understanding that right um and so when we got to Calgary sorry I
Speaker 1was gonna ask you about that can you explain consent a little bit better because I think people need to know like yeah what what is what does consent look like to you and what doesn't
Speaker 2it look like so there's like a lot of really cool videos on consent that um I do a lot of like trainings and uh seminars and stuff in the community and I always show a few different videos because they're really child-friendly and I think it's really cool and I think it's really simple like if I was to say let's go on a bike ride and you're like cool like what do you think of I think like we're just gonna go stroll down the street on our bicycles um but I take you up to the Rockies and it's crazy like did you sign up for that right no because you're thinking like oh we're just gonna go for a little bike ride right like around the neighborhood um so like consent needs to be very clear what am I saying yes to. And if that changes, you need to let me know. And then I have to provide consent again. You cannot be under the influence. You can't provide consent under the influence. If someone's manipulated you, that's dishonest, right? So that doesn't actually, it's not accurate consent, but we believe because I said yes, I consented and it's all my fault. You know, if you're having sex with somebody and you know, you're doing one thing and then they start to do something else and you say no, that means no, right? You have to ask every single time, just because I slept with you yesterday doesn't mean I'm going to sleep with you today. Consent needs to be clear, concise, and it has to be, and coherent, like yes, not a, all right, right? Or a movement or a gesture. Exactly. And I think we get so afraid and uncomfortable that we're like, okay, right? Like that's not consent. You were, it's under manipulation or you're being pressured. No, like we need to be teaching our kids that it's okay to say no. If you don't want to fucking go sit on uncle Jack's lap or give, you know, your grandpa a kiss. If the kid's like, no, I'm uncomfortable. Okay, perfect. Don't force them to go do something they don't want to do. It's not fair. And I remember, right? Like again, when I was younger, it's a different time than it is today, but it was like, no, you have to go and hug your aunt. You have to go and do this. And I was, I was so uncomfortable. I wanted to throw up. I did not want to do that. We have to like, we, we have to allow our kids to actually say yes or no within reason. You know, if they're like, no, I don't want to eat my vegetables. Well, unfortunately you're going to have to eat your vegetables. But, um, you know, I think that we take that power a lot and we make the decision for people and that's not okay. We have to allow people to have their own power to make their own decisions. Um, and we need to be teaching. It's like when we're in school, teaching that is the most important thing. It's okay to not be okay. Why? Because like, I don't need to give you an explanation why I'm having a bad day. I go into work sometimes and I'm like, I'm not feeling the greatest. I'm going to do my best, but I'm, I'm, I'm, I might need a little bit of support. 10 years ago, I wouldn't have done that. I probably wouldn't have showed up or I would have needed drugs or alcohol just to like, get me out of the house or out of bed. Um, but like we get so afraid to ask for that support or say, I'm actually not doing so great. Right? Like I'm just celebrated 10 years, not that long ago. And I still say, I'm, I call, you know, some friends, whoever my sponsor, whatever. And I'm like, I'm, I don't feel good. Right. I look in the mirror and I don't like what I see. That's pretty normal. Like I got a bucket load of trauma. It doesn't just like disappear and I'm like cured, you know? Um, the same vulnerability, that I had that made me more susceptible to becoming an addict, alcoholic, whatever. Um, you know, to being in precarious situations, to being exploited and trafficked. Um, those vulnerabilities are, are still in me. They're still there, but I wake up, I look in the mirror and I say, okay, I don't like what I see. However, that's okay. I'm going to still go on with my day. I'm still going to show up to work or you know what, if I have to take a day off, then all right, I take a day off, but, um, I don't cope the same way. Because I want other people to see that it's actually all right to not be your best. Um, you know, I think, I think it's just, yeah, I just, I don't like it. It's fake. And I wish people would speak up more so that we could get rid of that stigma that like, you know, I used to smile all the time when I was really depressed and I wanted to kill myself. I tried to take my own life when I was 26, right before I got sober. Um, you know, because I went and, I gave a police statement and he did all of those things. And, um, I walked out of that police station and I felt so guilty. I was like, holy shit, I betrayed these people that took such good care of me. You know, I, I betrayed like, I'm a rat. I'm like all of these things. And I just pushed it down inside and I swallowed those feelings and I put a smile on my face and I pretended like everything was okay. And I lasted 86 days sober. And then I tried to kill myself and I ended up in a five point restriction. And I was like, okay, I'm going to kill myself. Two officers guarding my door. And all I could think about was it didn't work. Right. Like, like it's pretty bad when you can't even kill yourself. You know, like I should be dead so many times. Like I'm on board time right now, like plus tax. Um, but like, it just, it was so sad. Like you wake up and I was dead and now I'm not like, now I'm not like, it's just so frustrating those feelings. Like I could have called my sponsor. I could have called a friend and been like, you know, everyone's like, how are you? And I'm like, yeah, I'm great. I'm fine. But inside I'm dying inside. I am too afraid to tell you that I'm not okay because I'm worried about what you're going to think about me. Um, because I went to treatment and I graduated the program and now I'm supposed to be okay. You know, I just went through a separation and it's, you know, it's terrible. It's really awful. But today, like I have the tools and the skills to like not pick up and be sad and allow myself that privilege to be sad because again, I'm on board time. And I know that, um, today is a gift and it sucks and it's so cliche, but it's the truth. You know, I know that there's nothing that's going to be good that comes from me picking up or me, you know, going out and being trafficked. Or whatever it is like, that's not who I am today. Um, I believe that everything I went through wasn't for nothing. I think, you know, it's literally how I got my job, how I do what I do today, how I support others. You know, I do a lot of service. Um, and I just, yeah.
Speaker 1Yeah. I always say that too, is like, you never know when this might, you might be of service to somebody else that's been through it. Right. Um, I went to treatment with a guy that, you know, had, had really bad, you know, child molestation in his, in his story. And I remember just like, he was so angry. And one day I, and I'm not saying that I, I fixed him or helped him or anything like that, but I mentioned that because there's a part in our literature that says like, nothing happens in God's world by mistake. And I was like, what if man, like, what if just, what if, what if one day you can help someone else that's been through it? Like simple as that. Right. And something, I saw something kind of shift in his eyes. He's like, I never thought of it that way. Right. And that's not to say that it was warranted or that, you know, they, they're, they're off the hook or anything like that, but forgiveness is a powerful thing. Right. And forgiveness is not for that person that hurt you. It's for yourself. Right. I've learned. So, um, so now we're, we're in Calgary. Right. And, uh, what happens after that?
Speaker 2It was the worst month of my life. Um, you know, and kind of like earlier in my story, when I shared, you know, I wasn't alone. I was being beat up. I was being beaten up. I was being beat up, but I wasn't by myself. So I'm being forced to do things I didn't want to do. Um, you know, I'm seeing clients around the clock. Um, this is with Mikey. So yeah. And, uh, you know, we're moving from hotel to hotel and I, I wanted to die again. You know, that feeling of how did this happen? Like everything was so good. And I remember thinking to myself, okay, if, if I do one good thing, it's going to go back to how it was in the beginning. If I am extra good today, he's going to tell me he loves me. Everything's going to be fine. And I won't have to do this anymore. Or if I work so, so, so hard and make so much money for him, I won't have to do this anymore. Um, I made it all about like me having to be better and it wasn't my fault. Like, you know, I didn't actually consent to that, but I thought if I was better, it would get better. And if I was extra good and I treated him so nice that he would say, I love you. And he did. Right. Cause he knew that's what I needed. Um, so at the end of the day, he would say, I love you. And I'm so proud of you. Um, and all I wanted was for someone to be proud of me because I was a disaster, you know? Um, again, I needed you to tell me I was pretty and I needed to tell you, I needed you to tell me I was enough because I couldn't do those things for myself. So we're there for about a month. It was awful. It was awful. There was a lot of abuse, a lot of just like manipulation, um, terrible situations. I remember telling him, you know, I need to get back. My mom's birthday is coming up. I need to see my family. And I hadn't really told him too much about that stuff. Uh, and I think I just like annoyed him to the point he was like, whatever, fine. We'll go back, but we're coming back here. And I said, absolutely. He kept all the money. I didn't keep anything. Um, and we drove back and I remember I had this like two bedroom apartment in Scarborough. It was empty. There was a foam mattress in the living room and like a sheet on the window. Um, I had bags of clothes in the corner, but like I didn't have a bed. The rooms were empty, everything. There was nothing. There was no plates, nothing. Um, so we get back. He drops me off and I think I had like a little laptop or I don't know where I was at this time, but I was watching CP 24 and I see his name. his face come up and he's wanted for kidnapping drugs like so many things and I was like I just went across the country with this guy you know like holy crap what do you think I did I called him and I was like I'll hide you in my apartment right because again if I do one more thing he's gonna love me again if I do one more thing he's gonna be proud of me if I do one more thing it's gonna go back to how it was in the beginning when he was really nice to me and you know he would often speak in another language so he was Persian and he would speak and I wouldn't understand and he knew that I felt left out right so he would do it on purpose because being a part of was so important to me I wanted to fit in I needed everyone to like me 99 people could be like I love Caitlyn she's the coolest which I am I'm so cool and there could be one person that's like nah not even I hate her but like whatever yeah and I am so focused on that one person that doesn't like me what's wrong with me why am I not good enough what did I do is it something I did like I just it's so hard um I get so dead set and I focus on that one thing but I have 99 people that just adore me you know um and so he came to my apartment and then uh he ended up turning himself in and then he got released again I don't get our legal system but I didn't hear from him after that he kind of went into hiding I guess um I had um just started like posting my own ads on what was then back page um because I was like well I know what the trauma is I know how to navigate this I know what it's like I know what to do so I'm going to do it I'm going to keep all my money um again I had a really bad drug habit you know and I couldn't stop even if I wanted to like it just didn't know how um you know my sponsor will often say like you could hook me up to a lie detector test and I would have passed if you like I wake up in the morning I'm like I'm never going to do that again I did not want to do it anymore but I had to my feet were going to my dealer's house my feet were going to the LCBO like before you even noticed exactly and um so I start posting my own ads and um you know it just it's it's trauma right like it doesn't get better it only gets worse and it got worse it got a lot worse um you know I was held hostage in this guy's house and it just went from bad to worse to worse to worse and um you know I had forgotten that I called renaissance to get into treatment because it's like a you know 5,000 day wait because I had no money so you know like I'm broke and they called me and they were like hey just reminding you of your bed date September whatever and it was 2014 and I was like oh my god I forgot um and so I told this guy that I was with who was like holding me hostage and it was a terrible situation a lot of abuse a lot of just terrible terrible stuff um and I was like I gotta go to treatment like I gotta go and he's like yep you're really messed up you gotta go I'll let you go so he let me go to treatment and I walked in and they're like you know you gotta be 72 hours sober yada yada yada do you know where the fuck I just came from if I could get sober for three days I wouldn't need to be here like I wouldn't need to be here I know I never that's how bad I am same um and so I showed up and I remember the woman answering the door and she's like you've been sober for three days and I was like yeah you know my eyes are going in different directions I'm a little a little itchy tweaky and she goes all right come on in she sits me down and she's like you know when was the last time you used I said three days ago she said what did you use and I was like meth and she's like oh you need eight days um and I just remember thinking I can't do this you know and I told her if you let me leave I'm gonna die and much like when I was in Utah when I said I wanted to come I don't know where those words came from I had no idea I didn't want to be there who wants to be in treatment it's terrible um but but she said okay and she sent me to the detox down the street I was there for eight days and it was awful it was horrendous my like my bones were hurting I was throughout like it was just I mean you know right everyone knows what withdrawal it is so I didn't actually know that I was using heroin um I was more of a like a cocaine meth like I don't really talk about what I use because to me it's all the same right same shit different I didn't like the way I felt so I used I didn't like the way I looked I used I didn't like the way I felt I had to change it whatever you know shopping people like it's whatever it is right gambling same so I had to get my my blood taken and my doctor had actually called me and he's like you know I know that you were using this and this he's like I don't know he's like but now you're using meth and heroin and I was like what like I had no idea because this person had been giving me these drugs and again without my consent but you know I didn't know and I was so sick and I had no idea why I was 80 pounds I'm like five foot eight I was about to die um and I uh yeah so I go through this this eight day detox that was terrible um and then I went to treatment and I completed the 21 days and then I stayed two extra days because I didn't want to leave I was like please don't let me leave like you gotta let me stay here forever I don't want to go home and they're like yeah no we need your bed like you know someone else is like you they need this bed so I graduated I left and that's when I went to the police station um so I'd actually had this officer that was in my life for I was a frequent flyer 41 division local um and I would show up in all different forms but um I actually met this officer because something had happened I woke up in a ditch someone found me in a ditch I don't know what happened to this day um and the police officer that was signed was like I'm not dealing with this girl you take her and the guy that said yes his name is Wayne uh Sergeant Howell um and uh he's still in my life today you know like he just did a reading at one of my at my medallion and it's so crazy because if that officer had stayed on my case like I don't even know like I remember Wayne calling me just to say hello just to ask me like how are you and I was like I don't like cops like cops are bad like I'm a drug addict I'm you know I'm doing all this stuff we don't like cops um but he saw through that like he saw me as a as a human as a human being as a person um you know he knew that I was a human being and I was a human being and I was a human being what I was doing but he didn't judge me he didn't arrest me he didn't you know he had he would text me and say have you eaten today do you have cigarettes like he would just do check-ins like it costs absolutely nothing to just ask someone how they're doing you know bring them a coffee and and we became friends and um he's actually the reason that I filed a police report he knew everything that was going on um and so when I went in there and I was like I want to press charges he was like all right and he brought in um the HT unit so human trafficking unit uh with Toronto police and I didn't even know I thought I had a shitty boyfriend that made me do terrible things and he was just bad um but that's not what happened right and it was then that they explained to me like you were trafficked and I was like I'm like no that doesn't happen here like that happens like other countries third world countries you know and the reality is that it actually happens here like for sure you know someone else that has been trafficked like it happens in our backyards it's happening next door it's happening in all the hotels all the motels all the airbnbs like but at that time I was like I got my information from like taken you know the movie taken like that didn't look like that right it wasn't thrown into a van like this guy saying that I love you and yeah okay he made me do bad things but you know at the end of the day he was there you know he was showing up for me he was filling those basic needs um and after that that's when I walked out of the police station and I felt like you know because we had such a trauma bond me and my trafficker I thought he was my boyfriend um I felt like I betrayed him I felt like I let him down um and I held on to that I didn't tell my sponsor I didn't tell anyone in my life and I lasted 86 days sober and that's when I tried to take my own life and um yeah it was just it was really brutal I think I was out um so that's I don't even know when that was January 2015 and then the last time I ever picked up was April 29th 2015 and uh and it you know I've had so many bottoms I've overdosed I've ended up in ditches places that I don't even know right and it was simple the guy you know my boyfriend at that time went through my bag and was like what is this and I started to cry and it wasn't the I'll go to detox I'll go to treatment I'll go to a meeting please don't leave me alone I'll go to a meeting leave me right um it was a genuine like I can't stop and he's like I'm gonna leave and I'm like I don't want you to leave but what if I can't ever stop like I was so afraid I just felt like I was a failure and um and for whatever reason we threw out my stuff and April 30th I called my sponsor I don't know I hadn't talked to her in so long but you know I called her and I was like I need to go to a meeting um and I was like I need to go to a meeting um and I was like I need to go And I think I was in bed for probably like a month. I was so sick. so depressed um but i just like went in full force you know um did stat like i just i did i did all the things that i was asked to do like my sponsor my friends my people could have been like go do this go stand in the middle of dundas square naked and whatever and i would have done it because my way didn't work and i tried a lot of ways you know i tried harm reduction i tried everything um and it just didn't work i had to just like give up and and surrender and it was so scary because i thought what if again what if people don't like me right what if i'm no fun like how am i gonna talk how am i gonna communicate with people if i'm not under the influence meanwhile like i would show up to meetings and i would be like oh my god i'm not under the influence and i would be like oh my god i'm not under the influence and i would be like oh my god i'm not and i was like smoking meth in the bathroom in the church just so i could share in the meeting you know um and i was yeah like it everything changed you know i hear people say a lot um you know i got sober and i got my life back i got sober and i got a life i made genuine friends i i got a job at sally beattie supply and it was like the best time ever you know i'm so happy um i was going to every day like they used to call my car the druggy buggy because i would just throw all the newcomers in there like come on i'll pick you up and then i dropped them all off i was doing service left right and center because i didn't want to die and i had to write out my day because if i had five minutes that were not accounted for i would i would have went out you know like it was that bad um and i just did everything that my my you know support system told me to do and i got therapy because yeah i'm that person that has to do it and i'm like i'm gonna do it and i'm gonna do it to get therapy because my life was like there's so much trauma and i still go to therapy you know like this stuff doesn't just go away it's a daily thing yeah and i'm not like cured i don't get cured right like sometimes i start getting a little miserable and i start getting really depressed because you know things happen i get triggered i'm human but i remind myself that that's okay right it's okay to be sad it's okay to miss people i've experienced a lot of loss i've lost a lot of friends family members to this disease um you know i lost one of my best friends in a snowmobiling accident a few years ago and like i just i really can't come up with a reason to get high like there's nothing bad enough to me for me to go get high um my worst day is still better than my best day out there because i'm so privileged like i'm i'm alive right like borrowed time is borrowed time and i you know i would rather if i'm depressed just be depressed and get through it then go get high and make me you know get something to make me feel better because it's not gonna work right i have one
Speaker 1problem and then i go and pick up and now i have two problems exactly and then many more after that i find it really interesting that you know i'm just i can't stop thinking about your dad telling you to put your hand out and like say hi to people as you were saying that i was thinking like that is kind of the key to getting sober in the beginning is like when you go into a meeting or a room full of people is to do that right and that's like the hardest thing to do i found is like hey i'm new you know people used to tell me to do that and to your point yeah like i'm at a point now where um i've relapsed uh you know i've relapsed a lot but i've relapsed like there's three major ones that i can think of where i was i had a like a i didn't expect it it kind of came out of nowhere right and not only that but i've relapsed a lot not that it came out of nowhere but it was like momental i don't know what i'm trying to say um and uh to your point it's like i i've surrounded myself now this time around so people always ask me they're like what's different like what's different you know you've you had eight years you had another three months you went to three treatment centers what's different i i always i find that i have to trick my brain into doing things i don't want to do right this podcast was an example of that where it's like i constantly sit here with the most awesome cool and you are cool by the way i know you know that but the most awesome people in recovery right and it's like although this doesn't substitute my recovery program it's like it's another part of my life where yeah i have two hours today where i'm not in anthony's head and to your point like i have to account for every minute yeah i had to do that too where it's like any any minute my addict brain gets a hold of me i'm already i'm thinking about how i'm going to solve my problems with you know the quick way right because i forget what happens after i forget that i end up in trap houses i forget you know and so i just i found that really interesting um how do you so you do you talk about working with a lot of people today that have been through how do you help people break the cycle like that's like how do you break that cycle it just it seems like such a pattern thing right so i just meet people where they're at you know
Speaker 2it's it's like we complicate everything i on top of being an addict i'm a virgo i'm like just so i make everything so difficult and complex and um instead of just letting it be how it is so you know where i get to work i'm meeting people um in the immediate aftermath of a crime and um specifically human trafficking and so they might still be being trafficked they might be not being trafficked anymore maybe they're doing sex whatever it is um i don't meet with them and say you know what you should probably stop doing drugs um if they're using uh that's going to make you feel like first of all it's not my job i couldn't control my own life why am i going to try and control yours the same thing with the folks i sponsor right like i i am abstinent i believe in harm reduction i really do um personally because i needed harm reduction to get to where i am today and um you know if i don't practice harm reduction with these folks and people think when i say harm reduction people instantly go needles safe inject like no it's beyond that right so if if i was to say i'm not going to help you until you're sober and then this person leaves or i'm not going to help you until you're housed right and then they leave like how how are they going to get there they don't have those tools yet right they're coming for help they showed up that is like the most difficult thing and they've already been through the worst they've already been trafficked they've already done whatever right so now they're here and they want that support and so what i do and my co-workers do like that's what's going to help them right that's what's going to help decide okay am i am i going to do this or am i not going to do this so i just try to build rapport i just try to say like yeah listen what do you want what do you need from me like you're my boss right like i'm not here to tell you what to do you're the expert of your own life not me i can present some options and say which one looks the best to you right now right maybe we work towards getting you to a program you know maybe an outpatient program whatever um you know i help people just meet their basic needs like they it's a basic human right to have food to have shelter to have water to have clothing to have tampons like these are things that we need and it's a basic human right why do i get them and you shouldn't have them so i'm not going to sit here and tell my clients and the folks that i work with and the people that i sponsor this is how you have to do it or else right um i choose to be abstinent today because that's what i need because of this way of working with people and again it's not for everyone i think everybody is different um the tough love i don't believe in that you know i don't believe in tough love i am i think love can solve everything so i'm not going to sit here and tell my clients and the folks that i work with so me like shaking like right like putting my hand to shake i i'm a hugger today i think that you know we need connection and we need um again it's a it's a basic human right to feel right and i work with so many people that have been sleeping on the street or that have nowhere to go and they've had no human interaction and sometimes they say you know can i have a hug i say absolutely yeah right of course i'll give you a hug and you know not a lot of people do that and that's fine but that right there makes them feel like a human being as they should um we don't realize the things that we take for granted uh you know i i help all kinds of people but i believe in so i used to live in new market an example i would take the go train down to union and for a really long period of time i had to not go to union station because it was such a trigger for me i'm a very sensitive and emotional person and i think it's probably one of my best qualities but it's really painful sometimes because i see someone on the street and i feel i feel it and it consumes my life um i'll sit with them and talk to them male female listen we are all like we all bleed blood like we all you know like i'm not gonna go up and like give my number to all of these like newcomers and stuff but I really believe in showing people that like kindness heals, love heals. Um, so I sit with people and just have a conversation and I'll, you know, there was one guy who used to sit at a college station and I'm like, do you have resources? Like, do you know where to get food? Like, do you know where the drop-in centers is? And he said, no. And I just wrote down some stuff and he said, thank you so much. No one's ever done this for me. Right. Like what I'm going to not do that because he's a man. Um, you know, like, yes, I have to protect myself and whatever, but it just, I'm befuddled at how people act sometimes because you could even just walk by and smile, you know? So yeah, I believe in harm reduction because it's not my job to tell people what to do. It's my job to show up and be kind because that's what people did for me. You know, um, I got judged on the street. I got judged for my actions and behaviors and what I chose to do. And then, you know, what I was doing that I wasn't so much choosing to do anymore. People judged me. Um, I don't judge people today. I love people and I pray every single day that people get what I have plus tax. Right. Because, um, getting sober is not like, you don't just get sober. Like I'm not worried today about relapsing on drugs or alcohol. I am worried about when I don't take care of myself. That my head goes to, I want to die. I don't want to get high that I know that's not going to do anything for me. And maybe if I stop working, like my program, whatever that could change, I recognize that. But for me, what's concerning is when I isolate myself and I want to kill myself, that's what I have to work on every day. Right. That like I wake up and I pray and it's very basic. Um, I want to be of service. I want to be outside of myself. And anyways, I've gone on so many tangents, but ultimately at work, I just meet people where they're at. You know, I do it in my personal life. I don't want to tell people what to do. Right. Who am I?
Speaker 1Plus we don't listen to that, right? Like I'm not receptive to you telling me what to do. I'm, it's attraction, not promotion. It was one of my favorite, one of my favorite sentences.
Speaker 2In every aspect of your life.
Speaker 1Yeah. You want what I have? Here's what I did.
Speaker 2Exactly.
Speaker 1You can do it or not do it. You know, it's up to you.
Speaker 2I, um, I actually, I was with a client the other day. Um, and, uh, she just graduated from a treatment center. So excited. She was so excited. We're sitting there and it was actually the day, it was the same day as my 10 year medallion. And, uh, you know, we're talking and I'm, you know, we're creating an amazing plan. And she's like, I just want to thank you so much for everything you've done. And I'm like, girl, you did this right. Like I just helped, I just helped bridge these little connections. Like that's what we do. Right. Um, and, uh, I was like, you know, I'm really proud of you. And she goes, yeah, I got this chip or whatever. And I was like, cool. And, you know, I showed her mine and I don't always talk about my personal experience cause I don't want to take it off of them. But there are moments where sharing and relating and showing that we have lived experience is really beneficial. Um, and she looked at me and she said, you're 10 years sober. And I said, yeah. And she's like, Oh my God. And she started to cry. And I was like, you know, at first I'm like, Oh God, what's happening. But she said, I can't believe that you're my worker. Right. That this universe placed us together. Um, imagine if I told her when I first met her, this is what you have to do. It blows my mind. Um, you know, I've gone to my clients medallions. I've been asked to share, you know, like it's just, it's so simple. It's so kind. If we just stop talking and we just listen. Right. Yeah. Beautiful.
Speaker 1Thank you so much, Caitlin. That was awesome. I appreciate you. Um, why don't we close quickly with this? Cause I'm going to get kicked out of here soon, but I really want, I want to close with this. Um, if you could say something to someone struggling right now with, you know, consent or manufactured consent or manipulation or being sex trafficked even, or just maybe just been, you know, you know, you've been in a relationship with someone who's been, you know, abused. What would you say to that person?
Speaker 2There's not a lot that I can say. Um, but I guess you're not alone, which sucks, you know, like, because it doesn't help. We feel alone. Um, what I wish someone had said to me was not, it wasn't words, right? It was consistency. So if there is people struggling, which there are, um, I'm going to keep showing up. I'm going to keep waiting. Um, because that's what people did for me. Right. People say a lot of words. The words don't help. They're like, cool for a minute. Um, but we need consistency. If someone is judging you, like delete them from your life. If you feel like, you know, you're not being treated the way that you should be treated, get rid of that person. And it's, oh my God, this question always throws me because there's a million things that you could say. Um, I just wanted someone to love me. You know, I wanted people to show up for me and be genuine. Um, I remember hearing a speaker once say, cause I came into this program really young. They said, you haven't done it yet, but I did it for you so that you don't have to do it. Do you know what I mean? Like you did this, this, and this. Okay, cool. Why did this, this, and this so that you don't have to do that? And that just really resonated with me because I work with kids that are like 16, 17, 18 sometimes. And I'm like, I get it. I did that too. And they're like, wait, what? And we have a really good conversation. But if there are people that are really in a place where they need to hear words right now, I love you. You're not alone. It's okay to not be okay. It's okay to say F you and get out of the situation you're in. It's okay to reach out for help. It's okay to not have the answer. It's okay to not know what's going on and be okay with that. The only way that we change what's happening in the world as a whole is with community. We can't do it alone. I couldn't do it by myself. I still can't do it by myself. We need to work together. And if I don't know what to do, I'm going to call you and be like, hey, do you know what to do to help this person? My sponsee will call me. And I'll be like, oh, my God, I have no idea how to answer this question. Let me call you right back. And I'll call my sponsor. It's teamwork. But people feel like they have to do it themselves. And you're not alone. And I always close the same way when I speak. And I'm going to say it now because it feels right. If no one's told you they love you yet today, I do.
Speaker 1Love that. I love it. Thank you so much.
Speaker 3Thanks for listening. Please help us grow the channel and like, share, and subscribe for more content. The discussions and stories shared on this podcast. are for informational and motivational purposes only. This content is not a substitute for professional medical advice, addiction treatment, or therapy. If you or someone you know is struggling with addiction, please consult a licensed physician, addiction specialist, or mental health professional. You are no longer alone. Thanks for watching!
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