SURVIVING: Ernest Pine

Hi, crime junkies, even though I don't sound like it, I am your host Ashley Flowers and I'm Brett and even though I'm sick There is no way I was going to keep me from telling this story this week because this is an urgent warning for the people of Elizabeth town Kentucky. There is a man living among you who committed one of the most violent heinous crimes on a neighbor that he barely even knew for a reason no one knows With her grandchild in the other room he brutalized this woman and then went home to make supper and watch TV like nothing happened and the only reason police knew where to go looking for him and the mountain of evidence that Proof to committed this crime is because the victim wrote his name in her own blood and Somehow managed to survive so she could warn others about this church-going father who Ascorrated as a good man this story is going to be hard to hear but no one else is talking about it So I want to warn you because some in the community have long wondered whether this survivor was the only victim of Ernest Pine you The neighborhoods that surround rough river lake in Kentucky are quiet ones It's over an hour away from any big city and really gives those nothing bad happens here kind of vibes To those who don't know but anyone who lived there in August 2008 found out the hard way that evil can reside anywhere and they learned that lesson at the expense of one woman A woman who is still so scared of the man who masqueraded as normal that she asked us not to use her real name So I'll call her Linda and the day that changed Linda's life forever was August 25th 2008 that's when Linda was home babysitting her 22-month-old granddaughter who was asleep on the couch and Linda was next to her Just watching TV when she got a knock at her door It was a little after 7 p.m. at the time the sun was still out Wouldn't be setting for like a couple of more hours that time of year and in a place like this where you know all your Neighbors Linda didn't even hesitate to open her front door and it was for a neighbor Ernest Pine Now the two exchange friendly greetings and Ernest told Linda that he was there to talk to her husband about a boat dock That either he has or maybe one that he was building and he wanted her husband to work on it because he's an engineer Now Linda's husband wasn't home and she told Ernest as much said he would be back in a half an hour or so and Ernest seemed happy with that and Turned to leave and as he made that motion Signalling to Linda that they're very normal very safe interaction was over Just when her guard was completely down and she went to close the door That is the moment he pounced Ernest shoved the door open and forced his way inside and before she can even process what is happening Linda feels the butt of a gun against her head and she hears Ernest in her ear He says turn around bit you are going to die Every nerve-ending is on fire and she believes him Even before he pulls out the six-inch hunting knife and zip ties Which by the way he had to have brought with him this was Plant and in that moment she knows that this isn't a situation where she can just Appease him give him what he wants in he'll leave what he wants is to kill her and so she fights He's trying to get her to put her hands behind her back and to tie them with the zip ties, but she won't let him So he hits her with the gun three times, but Linda keeps fighting And for a moment she pulls her arms free and she reaches for the side door that leads to the garage hoping that she can get her German shepherd that is in there, but right as she is about to open it Ernest grabs her again He pulls her back and this is when he's able to tie her arms and he tells her that if she tries that again He will not just kill her He will also kill her granddaughter, too Now Linda knows that that little girl could wake up any second, so she makes a request She asks Ernest to move her to the small laundry utility space that they have just off the kitchen So that whatever is about to happen to her won't be witnessed by her granddaughter if she does wake up and Ernest complies He drags her to that room and she hears the lock click behind them Now Linda is still not giving up in that moment. She manages to pull her arms out of the zip ties But Ernest is bigger than her. He overpowers her. He cuts off all of her clothes and for the next 15 minutes that feel like a lifetime to her Ernest sexually assaults her with objects that he finds nearby while Linda tries to fight him off Now at one point Linda is able to push him to the ground and that's when he starts cutting her with his knife And he tells her that she is not getting out of this room She has to die because she knows who he is and that's when he pulls out his gun and aims it right at her head And she hears it go off but somehow by some miracle the round just zips past her head and hits the wall So he fires again, but this time it's just the click of the trigger. She hears no shot the gun Jammed but in that half second that Linda thought she'd been saved That's when Ernest grabs Linda by the head and slices her throat ear to ear When Ernest lets her go her body just falls limp onto this pile of towels and even though at that moment She is sure she's going to die. She still won't give up. She is pressing the towels against her neck Trying to use them to like stop the bleeding as best she can and she uses every ounce of energy She has every ounce of willpower that she has left to hold on as long as possible and to hold as still as possible Because she's trying to convince Ernest she's dead Now it's quiet so she can hear him unlock the door Leave the room, but then he comes back and he just like stands over her And all of a sudden Linda feels this searing pain because he's stabbing her and he does this over and over again Leaves comes back and stabs her leaves comes back and stabs her and all the while somehow. She is managing to play dead Finally she hears a new sound Ernest is running the sink in the utility room Now he thinks she is dead on the floor And he is washing his knife and washing his hands above her before leaving the room one last time Then she hears the front door open and close and even then she cannot bring herself to move Like he could come back and if he does if he stabs her one more time, that might really be it for her So for another 10 long minutes Linda just lies there bleeding on this heap of towels wondering if her utility room is gonna be the last thing She ever sees and when she's sure that he's not coming back to clean up anymore That's when Linda takes her finger and in her own blood begins to scroll Ernest's name on the wall She wants people to know who did this to her and when she finishes the final e in his last name pine Somehow, maybe it's the adrenaline that's been rushing through her body or just the drive to protect her granddaughter At that moment Linda pushes herself up off the floor and she makes her way out of the utility room into the kitchen Where she can see her granddaughter in the living room on the couch who think God is still asleep and unharmed So she makes a b-line for the front door to lock it and then next to the door is their security system So she presses the panic button which triggers a 911 call at 812 p.m Ending her hour in hell with Ernest Now she has never had to use this button before she doesn't even know how quickly police will respond or if they will at all So she goes back to the kitchen and starts making calls while she's still bleeding out She calls her son-in-law who lives next door and then she hangs up and calls her husband and begs him to come home They both call 911 to to make sure they know to send an ambulance not just police And Linda is somehow still conscious and talking when first responders get their 820 p.m And as more and more people show up and she's loaded into an ambulance She is able to relay what happened to her and more importantly who is responsible So as they airlift her to University Hospital in Louisville for emergency surgery The sheriff goes to the home of Ernest Pine just a one-minute drive away positions outside his home and calls his landline When Ernest answers the sheriff asks him to come out of his home, but he doesn't say why Now it's dark now around 9 p.m. And Ernest emerges from his front door blinded by a cruiser's spotlight And as the sheriff arrests him and place him in the back of a car, a deputy notices that he reeks of alcohol But he is coherent enough to answer questions after he's read his Miranda rights They ask him "Is anyone else inside?" "No," he says. My wife said a dog showed two hours away Were you at Linda's house earlier tonight? No But when the sheriff says like "So if a neighbor told me that they had seen you on the front porch earlier" then you're saying that name. would have been lying. And this is when Ernest starts backtracking, saying, "Well, actually, yeah, I did go over there to talk to her husband about a boat dock, but Linda said that he wasn't home, so I just left." "Okay, your name is written in her blood." "But I don't think he's pieced that together yet. Like, I don't think he knows that she's the neighbor who saw him. I mean, he knows what he did to Linda, so I think in his mind, she should not be a lie. Linda is dead. So, calm, cool, and collected. He just answers their questions, and acts like this is some big misunderstanding." The sheriff asked Ernest if he has any weapons at home. Ernest mentions like two or three long guns in the sheriff's, like, "Well, yeah, but what about a handgun?" Now, Ernest thinks for a while, and he's like, "Oh, yeah, I do have this 22. It's in a toolbox in the basement. Perfect." So he's taken to the station, and somewhere between when he's put in the back of the sheriff's car, and when he gets to the station before the recorded interview with him begins, investigators give him a heads-up. Like, oh, by the way, it wasn't just a neighbor who saw you on her porch. It was the victim herself who I did you. And, by the way, we're getting a warrant to search your house for that gun, and anything else we can find. And also, before their interview starts with him, they're getting as much background on Ernest as they can. And honestly, the more they learn about this guy, the more shocked they are by this crime. And the more they have to be thanking their lucky stars that Linda survived, because without her, I don't know if they would have ever gotten to Ernest, because 58-year-old Ernest does not fit the profile of a violent offender that they might have gone looking for. 'Cause he's been married to the same woman for his whole adult life. They have two kids, grandkids, and he has no adult criminal record that they can find. Know what else they can't find? Any connection to Linda. I mean, aside from living a minute away from her, they don't seem to really know one another or have any history. I mean, like Linda and her husband would wave to Ernest when they would walk their dogs, but that was it. And even in that, like barely any words are spoken between them, and Ernest was never alone with Linda or anything like that. So by the time Kentucky State Police Investigators get in a room with Ernest hours after his arrest, they are dying to get to the heart of their questions. Why? And I'll warn you, what you're about to hear, the actual interview audio between Ernest and the detectives, it is explicit and troubling. Okay, my name is Detective Jason Fox willing to detect the state police. The date is always 26, 2008, time is 135 hours each and stand your time. Police will be attempting to order you Ernest's time, Ernest's time. Are you currently influenced alcohol or any drugs, or anything like that? I've had a good one tonight, but I do not. Not intoxicated or anything like that. What to talk to you about instances at the night, why, why you hear it? Would you be willing to talk to us about that? I'm not real sure what the incident is about. Do you have any idea of why you're in here? I don't have a red paper, most of the fault, but instead it was me. And that's why we're no, what in the back of a car represents that? All right. Who was this neighbor? You said this? Well, she's a truck street now in 2000. Okay. When did you warn that she say that you were a solider? When the sheriff called him on the phone to come on your house. Okay. Did he tell you what the accusation was, fault, and she said I did. Okay. Did you, in fact, assault miss tonight have you been over to miss house tonight? I went over, so I want to talk to her husband. What were you going to talk to him about? What did she tell you? You wasn't home? Okay. And then one after, no. I didn't want back home. Okay. So you went back home. What did you do when you went back home? He's gonna put it in this weekend that you have to show him up. Yeah So I'm gonna talk to him What did she tell you? You wasn't home. Okay, and then one after nine went back So you went back home. You remember what you were watching? You live at home by yourself? On what? Okay. You're watching at home and I know? No, he's watching to write another dog, so. Have, how long have you lived with the residents where you live now? About a year. I'm not sure if we just go to the hospital. Do you know, I mean, you have any other clients, but with this? We talked over two or three times. So that just casual conversation or walking down the street or walking down the street. Probably how you doing? Why do you think if she was assaulted, would she name you as being a person that assaulted her? That's the fact that I did it in her front door. Of course, the reason you're here is pretty serious. I remember the fact that she's at University of Louisville Hospital right now, as we speak. And she said, told several people that you were the person that did this to her. However, you're saying that's not true. Is that correct? That's correct. Why would she accuse you of doing this if you didn't have anything to do with? I was a door and she'd bother to come back. I don't know. We know what's happened, what's happened, and that's what we do. We talk to people all the time because it's not normal. There's always a reason that something happens. And we want to try to find out why so we can prevent it from happening again. Here's the situation. We're going to search your residence and we're going to search for evidence. And we're going to find evidence in those places. The evidence I believe is going to show that you're not telling us the truth right now. I believe that the evidence that we're going to find the statement that we're getting from other people is going to show that what you're telling us is not the truth that you in fact did go over to the house and assault her tonight. I hope that you're not the type of person that goes out here and sits and thinks up horrible, even terrible things to do the people that prays on innocent people out here and just tries to torture them and do terrible things to them. I would rather think that you're the person that made a simple mistake tonight and this did something that was totally out of character and would not normally do. But the evidence is going to show that as you were there and that you had something to do with this and I need to know from you which type of person you are. If you're that evil type of person that I'm thinking about on this end or if you just made a mistake tonight and there's something that was totally out of character that would never happen again. Okay. When we go in there and we find evidence in your home on your person, the path that shows that you're not telling us the truth. How do you think a prosecutor in a judge is going to view that? Are they going to say this is the type of person that made a mistake or they're going to say this is the type of person that stood up straight up wide to those detectives when he knew good and well. That there was evidence that showed he had done something like this. What do you think a prosecutor is going to think? What do you think a jury is going to think about something like that? He had a bunch of evidence, I guess it's after he had done it. He said we've laid out a bunch of evidence here for you and that might thank you on it. That was your kind of honest. I don't know what evidence you can do. You should probably hear some situations like we're talking with you here. This is what we did. There's not a big one reason why we have to be talking to you. This is your opportunity to help yourself. The good thing here is that she hasn't died. Okay. I'll tell you this too. If you were sexually assaulted, you ought to take me to a hospital on both that stage. Okay. If I don't take a pill, then nothing's going to happen. Okay. If I don't have some of the meditators in me, then there wouldn't have been a sexual assault in the first place. Did I say you have stuck your penis in that area? Okay. What's the sexual assault? Well, any type of assault they involve has hurt. Any type of assault they involve has hurt sexually. They involve has hurt vagina. Okay. anus to be a sexual assault would be a red okay well then then say you didn't sexually assault okay well that's what she's saying well that's because we're at we haven't been saying oh oh there we've got it's what she's saying okay maybe you tell something a little different then oh yes I would against church not exact okay because I mean there's gonna be evidence okay all right what she said if she's saying it was sexual assault what was sexual assault what she's saying that if you stuck some things up in her vagina or anus some foreign object and may not be sexual assault I mean it could we could very well if that wasn't for sexual gratification why not be sexual assault but what we're saying is this is what she's telling us okay we're here to talk to you and get your side of the story that's what you're saying oh but mr. but you don't understand that 95% of you in case your body gets all over okay we've been doing this and that I know you're very nervous and you've been trying probably the military about talking about things like it look okay so no I don't know they're no no different than you are okay yeah they also they want that and up to do that same period but that didn't let me be a bad person no no it in my little my kids they can the daddy's bad person and my girl my wife they can their husband's a bad person that's what it comes down to you is to find if you're not a bad person we know that but right now all that we have is to take her time for and that's putting you as a terrible person and that's all these people are going to hear except he's saying what didn't he didn't do it yet no I'll buy for no evidence prove it and then only when you prove it and I'm backed into a corner and I've got no other options now say I did him if you're an outside person you see somebody do that what you gonna think you're gonna think that man is not sorry that man's gonna do it again in the only reason he finally stepped up to it was because he knew he had no other option that's the only reason and that person there there's no sympathy there's no hope in the process and to be thrown out the balls for all we care get rid of them that's one less person we need in this world that's what those people think you know what you don't get on the stand and point you out and say he's the one that did it he did this to me we're gonna show pictures of what happened we're gonna listen to her story about what happened we're gonna present the evidence that we're probably gonna find here in a short while against you and you're gonna get there and say I don't know what she's talking about it wasn't me I walked back home that that's it I don't know what else to tell you other than it's my word against hers take that I'll tell you what's gonna happen to you a jury member's gonna sit there and listen to that and go he's for a crime he's lying he's lying just like he lied to those detectives right there and if that's what you want to do by all means that's fine because I'll tell you what challenge accepted if Ernest Pine wasn't gonna talk the evidence would do the talking for him I mean what more do they even need though Linda wrote his name in blood I mean like if I news they weren't and she's telling any living soul she came in contact with before she was airlifted off that it was him but like you heard the man he framed this as a he said she said situation and we unfortunately live in a world that requires a hell of a lot more than the word of a woman so buckle up let's go get that irrefutable proof that no one can argue with starting with Ernest own body by the time their interview with him ended they had a warrant to search him and collect his DNA and while he sat in that room talking to them he had this cut on his thumb and scratches on his lower back and blood on his watch and more smeared on one of his shoes the shoes he is wearing and back at Ernest's house they find that 22 caliber handgun that he told them was in the toolbox in the basement there is still blood on that and it is jammed just like Linda said it turns out that it jammed because Ernest loaded it with the wrong ammo but the ammo that they found matched the 22 caliber round still lodged in Linda's utility room wall Ernest also had multiple hunting nights in his place one of which had human blood still on it and there were sandals with blood still on them too that matched a tread of a bloody footprint found at the crime scene and not just like in her house in general at the entrance of the utility room where Linda was attacked they collected zip ties that matched what Linda described in her account along with green rope tied into a news and even more smudges of blood around his house in her home they also took into evidence the multiple items that were used to sexually assault her and make no mistake Ernest can sell his bullshit story all he wants that if he didn't use his penis like does that really count as a assault yes absolutely and the detectives might have been trying to like play along to get him to confess but they agreed to because anyone anyone who hears what he did with those objects knows what a sick and twisted monster Ernest actually is and the fact that he couldn't use his limp dick doesn't change a thing for me now Linda had to undergo an almost 19-hour surgery where she needed about 17 pints of blood for a blood transfusion and hundreds of stitches her husband told us that doctors said the knife missed her vital organs by millimeters and I tell you all of this Linda's story the details of it not to be overly graphic for entertainment or shock value we asked Linda's permission to go into detail and she allowed it because she and we want you to know exactly who Ernest Pine is she and her family want you to really understand what he is capable of and what kind of threat that he could be to other women out there because at Ernest indictment hearing in 2008 the one where he gets slapped with seven charges Linda's family learns for the first time that she may not have been his first victim now Linda and her husband they didn't go to that she was still recovering so her husband's dad went in their place and so he was the one who first felt this big mix of emotions thrilled as he came in that this man would be facing real charges and then horror when the strangest thing happened right before the hearing started something that you won't find in any of the case files or reporting Linda's father-in-law happened to sit right behind this guy at the hearing that he didn't know and this guy turned around and asked him if this was the courtroom that Ernest Pine was going to be in Linda's father-in-law said yes and went on to explain Linda's case a little and the next thing that came out of the other man's mouth set a chilling and ominous tone for the next year to follow while they waited for a trial according to Linda's family the other man said that he was there for his daughter-in-law too because he believed 16 years before Linda's attack Ernest murdered her Linda's father-in-law was shocked to hear this I mean Ernest had never been convicted of any other crimes let alone murder and the truth is as far as I can tell for all of the years before this Ernest was never even a suspect in this other woman's case the only reason this other man learned about him and knew to show up to this hearing was because allegedly that that man said a state trooper called him the night before this indictment hearing and described how Linda was found and when he heard the details it was almost unbelievable so for police to call this guy I mean that means they must be seeing the similarities too they're hard to miss and police later said as much to local press and when our team dug into her case I was shocked at what they found so this other woman was 29-year-old Elena Sanchez Hawkins and 16 years before Linda's attack and just an hour away from Ruff River Lake in Elizabeth Town Kentucky Elena was raising two little boys with her husband Mike the date was January 8th 1992 and that day started off like any other Elena woke up her eight-year-old for school made him breakfast walked him out to the front porch to watch him get on his bus at around 7 a.m. her husband Mike was already at work but he called like he did every morning to check in and make sure the morning was going smoothly and on that 7 a.m. call everything was fine but an hour or two later Elena's sister told us that Mike called his wife back because he had won some radio contest and gotten a free dinner he was excited about it wanted to tell her about it but when he called the phone was just ringing and ringing and ringing with no answer which was odd I mean Elena worked mostly nights at a gas station so she could be home with their three-year-old son during the day so she usually was there to pick up so he tried calling back again and this time the call was picked up but it wasn't Elena on the other end it was his three-year-old's voice that he heard and Mike's like okay hey put mom on the phone and what his son said next is still burned into my brain I don't think Mike's brain tried to make excuses. He didn't ask more questions. He just immediately left work and raced home to a scene that I am sure continued to haunt him throughout his life. Alina was lying half on the couch covered in blood with her hands tied behind her back and her throat was slit from ear to ear. But there was truly blood everywhere. Thankfully, their son had been left physically unharmed so Mike scooped him up and called 911. The crime in 92 Elizabeth Town was just as shocking as Linda's would eventually be in Ruff River Lake in 2008. It didn't matter that this was a bigger city. This just didn't happen here. And police were quickly stumped by the crime. Now it seemed like Alina knew her killer because there was no forced entry and even though this was a pretty rural neighborhood where people didn't always lock their doors, a family member told us that Alina usually did especially when Mike was gone. They also remember there being glass in the door and there was definitely a window next to the door so Alina would have been able to see whoever was on the other side. It's not like it was just like a solid wall and she was blindly opening. Right. And also nothing seemed to be taken from the house. So killing Alina seemed to be the only goal. But there was no one in Alina's life who raised suspicions. When obviously they looked at Mike because as we know they always checked the husband but he had a solid alibi, he was at work. So he was cleared pretty quickly. And police didn't believe that he had anything to do with her death. Not that he just didn't do it. He didn't arrange it. Nothing. And as they made their way through others close to the family, no suspects emerged. Or at least none that have ever been reported on or that the family knew about. Because the case is still unsolved, all of our records request and interview requests were denied by law enforcement. And did her son see anything? Mike's brother told us that at some point in the morning the son had pulled up a chair in the kitchen to get a snack out of the fridge or like off the counter or something. And in that moment the little boy remembered seeing a man in the house. Now we weren't able to talk to Alina's younger son. So exactly what he saw the man doing if he even remembers is unclear. But it must have been something that spooked him because one of Mike's brothers told us that eventually he went into a bedroom and hid inside a toy box. But you'd think if it was someone that the family knew even at three, he might have been able to like recognize them or remember who they were. Yeah, I mean, like my daughter is just coming out of the three stage. I think she could, but like also our brains are capable of shielding a lot to like protect us from trauma. So who knows at that young of an age? What about any neighbors around? I mean, this is happening in the morning on a weekday people are having to work out and about like there's people around this crime was so bold. According to a local paper called the news enterprise investigators believe that she died sometime between seven a.m. and 10 a.m. And I mean, we looked up her address and from what we could tell it was kind of a rural area outside of town. The houses were pretty spread apart. So again, bold for time of day, like people could just come by mailman, whatever, but I do think that like this attacker was protected in the fact that like there was not like a next door neighbor the way there are and like a lot of suburbs that you see. But even though the neighbors were spread apart, like police talked to as many people as they could. They even set up a roadblock to question anyone who drove past Elena's house in the morning on their way to work. And from all of that, they did find someone who came forward saying that they saw a black Nissan Datsen pickup truck parked in Elena's driveway. Now they didn't see a person or anything, but the truck is important because as far as we can tell, police were never able to connect anyone in her circle or beyond to that kind of car. So eventually, it was considered that this could be everyone's nightmare scenario, just this random roaming psychopath who targeted Elena for, who knows what reason. Was it just that day that he saw her? Had he been watching her? Now, if you have her loved ones told us that in the weeks leading up to her murder, Elena did mention this weird guy that was watching her during her night shifts at the gas station she worked at nearby. During her shifts, Elena sat in one of those like glass boxes in the middle. People could like drive up to her if they wanted to buy something. And this weird guy would drive by, but he would never talk to her or anything like that. He would just stare at her. Now, everyone we talked to said Elena wasn't somebody who got scared easily, and she could stand up for herself. But this guy freaked her out. Enough that even though the door to her box was locked, she would call Mike and his brothers and ask them to come down when this guy showed up. But every single time they got to the gas station, the guy was gone. Now, as far as everyone remembers, now Elena never described this guy or what he was driving. And it doesn't seem like police were ever able to track this guy down either. But it's the gas station guy somehow figured out where she lived and showed up at her house. Like he said, like she could see out in front of the door before she opened it. I doubt she would have opened the door for someone that was already creeping her out. I don't think so. So circling this back to Linda, what are all the similarities and what, like if anything, is different in these two situations? Okay, so first of all, everyone we talked to who has seen both Elena and Linda told us that they looked a lot alike. Both women were dark hair tan short, like around five feet tall. Both women were bound, both had their throats cut. Now as far as we know, Elena wasn't tied using zip ties. One of Mike's brothers remembers that it was a cord from the blind. So, her attacker seems a little less prepared than Ernest was with Linda 16 years later. And I can't tell you if the same type of weapon was used because just like Ernest took the knife with him, Elena's attacker did the same thing. Also, they were each attacked in their home. A child was present in each case, which might be a coincidence. But we know in Linda's case that Ernest used her granddaughter as leverage to make her comply. Could Elena's killer have done the same thing? Like, I wonder if a child in the home was something they were looking for, rather than just like, like knowing they could use that kind of against their victim, rather than just like something that will happen to be there, right? Now, we know that Linda was sexually assaulted, but it's not totally clear if Elena was. I mean, according to what KSP had told other reporters in the past, she was. But Elena's brother told us something totally different. He said that he talked to someone in the coroner's office who told him that based on what she read in the report, she didn't think Elena was sexually assaulted. Well, whose definition are we using here, too, right? Because you also have Ernest over here saying that what he did to Linda wasn't sexual assault. And we know that's total BS, right? And I've seen before people even like in an official capacity interpret like a lack of semen as a sign. So yes, if she too was assaulted with an object, my question would be what's their trauma left behind? Well, I feel like the one thing that seems obvious is that they're for sure was no semen. Or we'd be talking about like DNA all these years later, right? That might actually be wrong, which I know sounds bananas. Yeah. But without police cooperation, I can't really tell 30 years later. So like I said, there is old reporting that has KSP saying that she was assaulted and they have DNA. They said in that same stuff. Okay. They don't explicitly say that it was from the sexual assault kit. And in talking with Elena's family so many years later, the different people remember different things. One person remembered that the DNA at the crime scene was semen. Another said that they thought it was maybe like skin from underneath Elena's fingernails. They had something. Whatever they had, whatever they were able to do with that in the early 90s, it didn't go anywhere. And so Elena's case went cold quickly. Now in 2004, Elena's husband Mike ended up passing away from surgery complications. And that same year, police told the family that they had stopped testing the DNA they had because they didn't want to destroy the little bit they had left. So Elena's loved ones, including her kids who now have lost both parents so young, they were just left hoping that someday somehow they would get the answers that they'd been waiting so long for. So four years after that, when they get word about Linda's attack and Ernest, they get this surge of hope. Maybe this is it. And this is when I told you that police came out in the press. And even they said that they saw the same similarities. This is why Elena's father-in-law went to Ernest's indictment hearing where he met Linda's father-in-law. And he probably planned to attend the trial. But a trial never happened. In the 10 months after the attack on Linda, Ernest ends up seeing the writing on the wall. And just like detectives, probes and Johnson said he would do, Ernest waited till he was back into a corner before he finally admitted what he'd done. On June 17, 2009, about 10 months after Linda was attacked, Ernest pleads guilty to 1st-degree burglary, attempted murder, 1st-degree rape, 1st-degree sawdemy, kidnapping, 1st-degree criminal mischief, and 2nd-degree assault. Now the judge gives him sentences for all of those things, but allows him to serve them concurrently instead of consecutively. So that means he isn't stacking time for each count back-to-back. He gets to serve one term, the longest one, 20 years. It never ceases to amaze me how you get a lighter sentence for attempted murder. Like just trying to murder someone. Because you like didn't do it right? Right. Like you told her she was going to die that day. You kept coming back to the room and stabbing her to make sure she was dead. It's kind of multiple attempted murders of one person. And just because by some miracle she survived, you get out of prison to maybe do this again to somebody. Like, what are we? It doesn't make any sense. What are we doing here? And it is the strangest thing to me because once he goes away for his attack on Linda, all of the talk about the similarities to Elena's case just stops. And to date, no official connection between Ernest and Elena has ever been made. Wait, so it wasn't his DNA? I didn't say that. I don't know if it was because police wouldn't talk to us. And even the family has never, like Elena's family, has never been able to get a straight answer about this either. They have asked and they just keep getting the same party line that they have gotten for years. This case is unsolved and open and investigators are waiting for technology to move forward before they can retest that DNA. I feel like if they actually had a DNA profile to compare, they would at least come out and confirm it's not him, right? You would think. At least one family member told us that they remember police testing the DNA they had against a few people back in the day. They don't know who was tested or cleared from that and we couldn't confirm that so I don't know. Like there is something so confusing about the DNA stuff in Elena's case to me, like something does not feel right. Well, I kind of wonder if maybe they're waiting till closer to the time that Ernest is set to be released. Like that gives them kind of a ton of time to make a really solid case against him. I think it's him. Like he's safely behind bars. He can't hurt anybody else. They have this like chance to really develop. He was safely behind bars. This is that's past tense. This is what I'm saying about this episode. This is how I got put on this case. Ernest got an early release this summer early release this summer. He's out on August 19, 2025. This pine was released on parole after serving only 17 of his 20 year sentence for Linda's attack. Yeah. I was trying to do the math. I'm not good at it. How was that even possible? How does a guy like this who did something like that get out like to me you already got a gift by getting to serve them right like just certainly right exactly he's already getting kind of a pass. So he got to serve him concurrently and under Kentucky's violent offender law you can be considered for parole after you serve 85% of your sentence. In this case, 20 year sentence has about 17 years. Now our sources said that Ernest spent a lot of time like leading Bible study and Sunday school while he was in prison too, which they believe the parole board like like model consider. Yeah. When they approved his release. Ashley. I'm sorry. I don't care how many Bible studies he led you don't get to torture a woman and then shave literal years off your prison time just because you said your prayers amen. And by the way, it's like a sure forgiveness, second chances, whatever, but I have a hard time believing that Ernest like found God in prison because he knew the guy's number before he went away. A source close to Ernest own family who asked to stay anonymous told us that at some point after Ernest moved to Elizabeth town way back in 1986, we're talking even before Elena's case. He and his wife joined the praise band at this mega church. A mega church that oh by the way is located in Elizabeth town just two and a half miles away from the gas station where Elena worked according to her brother-in-law. Wait, so Ernest for sure has a connection to the area where Elena lived back in 92. Yeah. We learn that he lived in the same town as Elena when she was murdered in 1992 not just before in 1992 and the potential ties don't stop there. So when we found out that Ernest lived in Elizabeth town in 1992, right away we began to wonder did he know Elena? Yeah. It doesn't seem like it or at least it does not seem like she knew him. But then we talked to that source who was close to Ernest family and they had a few theories on how Ernest and Elena's paths could have crossed. So Ernest was in the army which is what brought him to Kentucky. He was actually stationed at Fort Knox before he retired and then he moved into a house only about five miles away from Elena's. And our source told us that after Ernest retired he was having a really hard time finding a job. So for a while he delivered pizzas for Domino's and of course like we don't know where he delivered pizzas or anything like that. I do imagine that you called Domino's and like we cannot confirm. But are the source that we talked to kind of has always wondered if he could have maybe delivered a pizza to the Hawkins house or in their neighborhood. Like that's a bit of a stretch to me. This is less so though. The source also said that when Ernest started working at a nearby break factory he would work the night shift and then get off early in the morning. And remember when he was arrested after Linda's assault a deputy said that he smelled alcohol on his breath in the patrol car right. Yeah. Well our source went on to claim that Ernest had a drinking problem that he hid from his family. So he would usually drink during the day after his shift ended while they were all out of the house. But Elizabeth Town was a dry town at the time so you could only buy alcohol in Boston Kentucky which was like the next town over. And if what our source told us is true, which we have not been able to confirm yet, to get to Boston from the break factory or his house, Ernest would have had to have drive right past Elena's house and that probably would have been right around the time that she was putting her son on the bus to school in the morning. And remember that truck that someone saw in her driveway the day she died? The black dead son? Well, our source told us that Ernest had bought his daughter a tan or beige Chevy S10 sometime before that. Now if you look at the photos and S10 looks really similar to a Datson. Yeah, but I don't know if you could confuse those colors though, right? Big difference, but I did look it up and sunrise that day would have been at around 8 AM. So if Elena is attacked sometime like between 7 and 10, 7 30 and 10, it may have still been dark when that witness spotted the truck. I mean, yeah, it seems worth tracking down the truck at least just to like get eyes on it. Yeah, I don't know if police ever did, because when a reporter looked into this and shared our sources information with current detectives, we were told that they still have not followed up. Wouldn't they have talked to his family though at some point during the investigation into one of this case? They tried. Okay, so in our records request, there was one audio file from when detectives went to the home of Ernest's daughter and her husband. They didn't want to talk then. And they basically direct police to Ernest Lawyer, some guy named Roger and his associates, because it sounds like when they tried to answer questions before people in their family were not happy with them. I guess that's the else out here, yeah, okay, what we wanted to do, you're right, and Ernest, you're dating? Yes. Okay. All right. What we wanted to do is down and talk to you and your mom for a little while, would it actually, if Roger or if y'all have an attorney representing you all, we didn't do that basically was, you know, you know what I told you the other morning, everything, it's year 70. And hopefully we were wanting to be able to help you make answer a few more your questions and just find out, basically, we just don't know why, this has really happened and I think that's what we're trying to find out. We don't have a clue why, I mean, we know the who, what, when, where, we just don't know why. And, you know, we just, basically just want to find out if your dad had any mental issues in the past or don't have any medications or as a history of alcoholism or has been abusive in the past or anything like this, just mocked up like that to your family, just basically doing your mom questions, you could answer. And that's really that all it was. Okay. As far as I can tell, Ernest's daughter did not call them back and actually out of all of our attempts to reach his children or ex-wife or him directly so he could respond to allegations, this was the only response we got, a voicemail. Yes, I'm calling on behalf of the letter you sent to Ernie Pine. Your information is inaccurate. He is not interested in speaking with either of you on anything and please stop harassing him. Thank you. Who was that? We don't know. She didn't say. Maybe someone close to him? Could be a family member? I mean, we were told that Ernest's family stood by him after Linda's attack. I mean, like, they might not even believe that he did it. How can you, like, make yourself believe that there's a literal mountain of evidence in this case? I don't know. I know. I, like, I get how hard. it would be to accept that your husband or your dad did something that heinous. But there's also a bit of a line for me, like denial, trauma, families of predators can be victims too, do not get me wrong. But when you help shield them from accountability, that is when I think you're crossing over. What do you mean? Well, so Linda's attack left her with serious medical debt. Before she was even discharged, they had a quarter of a million dollar lien on their house, and it took her husband 10 years to pay that off. And like, I just want to take a second because this is the side of these cases that does not get talked about enough in my opinion. Survivors don't just have their physical well-being taken from them, and their emotional and mental health totally wrecked their safety taken away. Like, on top of all of that, it's like the logistics of it. They often have to pay, yeah, literal money for what their attacker did, with money they often don't have. A crime like this seriously just like rips apart every aspect of your life. Yeah, but I think about in this case, like, can't they sue Ernest? Like, he had money, right? Yeah, we were told by our source that he did, but Linda's husband told us that none of that money has gone to her. So this is what played out, so Linda had to wait for the criminal trial to end, or like all of that before they could actually file a civil lawsuit, right? And her husband told us that during that time, Ernest and his wife got divorced, and his assets were all transferred to her. So from what he can tell, all Ernest has now to his name is his pension, which I guess is protected, which I didn't know that that's how it worked, but that's still his. And Linda's husband told us that he did try to fight for that money, money that Linda deserves, but they just couldn't keep up the fight because lawyers cost too much. Yeah, you need money to get the money. Yeah, now on the one hand, what I'll say is like, in any other scenario like this, where say the wife and family are blindsided, it would be like the wife's whole life savings up in smoke too. And I'm not saying the perps family has to be left destitute if they did not know anything or did not participate, like, but neither should Linda. Right. Like you said earlier, there are lots of victims in this case. Yeah, and I haven't seen anything in the source material to suggest that they got a dime to help. So it feels to me like everyone on Ernest's side chose to support Ernest and protect themselves. And as cruel as the financial burden has been on Linda and her family, the emotional toll is seriously just as real. Linda lives with physical and emotional challenges from the trauma, like I said. She is now back in therapy because Ernest has been released and it has brought all of this back up for her. I mean, ever since that night, 2008, Linda has never been left alone. She is always with her husband or a trusted friend or family member. And her husband has faced his own challenges too. He had a stroke in 2013 and his doctors told him that all of this stress and worry that he carries could have been a factor. But you know what, he told us that he loves Linda. They have been married for 47 years now and he would do anything to protect her and their family. When Linda's husband went to one of Ernest hearings after his parole, he said that in his opinion, Ernest didn't even show any remorse even after all these years. And he has never made any kind of formal apology to Linda or her family. One of those hearings was about a no-contact stay away order, which meant that Ernest couldn't be anywhere near Linda or her granddaughter for like 10 years. But Linda's husband told us that when the judge asked him if he understood that, he didn't even answer. So the judge had to ask him again, like, do you understand that? And he says, like, yeah, I get it. Which to Linda's family felt like he was not taking it seriously. And so now, that neighbor who left Linda for dead lives just about an hour away from her. Even though he is 75 years old now, we know what he's capable of. And there is so much anger and fear that you can feel from everyone who has been affected by this case. And Elena's family lives with that same anger and fear because her killer, whoever he is, is still out there somewhere. Elena didn't get the chance to name her killer. And her family told us the little that's out there about her doesn't even begin to paint a picture of who she was. So I do want to share a few of their memories. They said, Elena never met a stranger like she loved people and she loved to sing. That's actually her voice you're hearing from a recording that her sister shared with us. She was her son's best friend and the sister everyone wishes they had. And girl was 4/11, but she may as well have been like 8 feet tall. Nothing scared her. She never backed down from a fight to protect the people she loved. And Elena's son told us that he has never given up on getting justice for his mom. And until the day he dies, he is going to keep looking for her killer. Maybe that killer things he'll never be caught. But if someone out there listening knows something that can change that, you need to come forward now. You can either call the Kentucky State Police Post 4 or you can email us [email protected] and we'll forward it on. We'll be putting KSP Post 4 information and our tips email in the show notes. If you or someone you know has experienced sexual violence, you can contact Rain's National Sexual Abuse Hotline. We'll have their number and other resources for survivors of sexual assault in our show notes. You can find all the source material for this episode on our website crimejunkie.com. And if you want to listen to more episodes like this one and all of our episodes completely add free, be sure to join the fan club. You'll get early access to new episodes every week and bonus content every month and contents like actual episodes you guys. And you can follow us on Instagram @CrimeJunkeyFotcast. We'll be back next week with a brand new episode. [Music] Crime Junkie is an audio chuck production. I think chuck would approve.