Speaker 1Hello and welcome to the How Not to Screw Up Your Kids podcast. So, pour yourself a cuppa, find a comfy seat and enjoy the conversation. Today's episode, Supporting Children Through Divorce or Separation, is all about helping any of you who might currently be going through this, supporting someone going through this, or can see that this is on your horizon. Now, the statistics don't bode well, sadly. 42% of marriages end in divorce, mine included. And interestingly, the spikes in inquiries to solicitors about divorce typically happen at two periods of time in the year, early in January and late in September, both of which obviously coincide with those extended periods of time together, early January being the festive period and late September being the summer holidays. Now, this episode is non-judgmental. It's a really non-judgmental but super practical episode at a time when you or a friend of yours might need the support most. Now, there are no, what's important to kind of remember in the offset here is that there are no hard and fast rules to go by as each situation is genuinely uniquely different. It's not a cop-out, but what I hope to do is give you some general best practice guidelines. And what I would say is whenever you're stuck for either a solution or an answer, I would encourage you to have this guiding principle. Always is ask yourself this question and this guiding principle, what is in the best interest of my child or my children in this particular situation? And that will generally get you on the right track, even if I haven't necessarily covered it. Now, that said, we also need to be super pragmatic. Yeah, let's be some realism here that we are humans. We have feelings. We have a sense of fairness. Which is all likely to be triggered at some point. We may get angry. We may get frustrated and we may worry through this experience, whether it's separation and it's temporary or whether it's separation, it's permanent or whether it's a divorce. Not everyone shows up as their best selves despite being a parent. And so you are sometimes going to make choices you will regret later, which are not in the best interest of your children. That don't speak to that question, making a decision based on the best interest of our children. But we must remember to be compassionate with ourselves. No one's perfect. We all make choices in moments that are fueled by anger, frustration, a sense of fairness, an emotion, a trigger, and that's okay. So before we delve into the practical hows, I want to start, by addressing an issue around trauma and the impact of divorce on children. I need to be honest. Anxiety, depression rates are higher amongst children who have experienced parental divorce. You know, they're going through a transition and a shift in their foundations. However, it is not a foregone conclusion. It's all in how the separation or the divorce is conducted and are the patterns, well, the things that we put in place to support them along the way. So whilst there is evidence that a child is likely to be impacted negatively as a result of it, it can all be mitigated by the things that I'm going to speak about. And also the sort of this myth, I'm not, this episode is not about promoting separation or divorce. It is simply an acceptance that as an adult, if you have made a choice, you have to make a choice. And I think that's a very important part of this. And I think that's a very important that the relationship with your children's co-parent is no longer viable, is not working for whatever reasons that might be. Staying together when things are very clearly no longer working is not in the best interests of children. Children are very adept at picking up on the emotional barometer within the home. And even if you are not fighting, and this is quite a kind of classic misconception is that, you know, it's this sort of idea, well, we're not, we're not arguing and it's sort of working, but it's not working, is that children can pick up on that. So as I say, I'm not encouraging it, but I'm simply saying, if you are, if you have made that decision, please don't then beat yourself up on the basis that you think you're going to traumatize your children for the rest of their lives by making that decision. We can, children can experience happy households with both parents there. I mean, obviously the ideal would be a happy household with both parents there, children never experiencing any major setback or big transition that creates trauma. And remember, we talk about trauma being with a capital T, the big stuff, and then there's trauma with a little t, and it's all relative. It's how that child, how that adult experiences the setback and the challenge. So for one child, trauma could be their parents divorcing, but for another child, it may be moving house in a very loving, happy family. So let's not beat ourselves up now. Let's really focus in on some of the practical things. So I want to talk about some, some basic ground and context and some of which I'm going to elaborate on because there's quite a lot that we can cover. What I would encourage you to do, this is going to be a big There's going to be an awful lot of information. And so I really would encourage you to listen to it once without worrying about making any specific notes, but listen to it again with a view of making some specific notes, if it's particularly helpful to you. So it's one of those ones that sometimes you need to listen to it a couple of times to really glean what you might need to kind of, what are the key important bits that you might need to address initially. And then if you've got any questions, if there's no, if there's an area that you're really struggling with at the moment that I've not sort of discussed, I've not gone, not run through, then please, please do email in contact at drmaryhan.com. This whole episode is the result of a listener emailing in. So we do, I do try and do as many listener questions as I possibly can. So if there's some specifics around this, then do email in. So let's look at some of the basic kind of context and ground rules. Now, at some point you, we're going to communicate with our children, what is going to happen. And what's really crucial around that communication is that children's biggest fear is abandonment. And so this idea that we're no longer in love with their, with their co-parent can then trigger a whole host of thoughts and concerns about what if, if my parents can no longer, no longer love each other, then maybe they can no longer love me. So what we're trying to do throughout all of the things that we think about is really trying to step into the shoes, the lens of our child. And they're not going to be thinking rationally, they're thinking emotionally. And so it's about just ensuring every now and again that we take that step. So when we have that communication, it's really important that we emphasize that it's a breakup our relationship with each other as their co-parents and not the children. Because in, and it's obviously, it's one thing to communicate it, but the other thing is we need to make sure that we live that, we demonstrate that, we role model that. The relationship between the two co-parents is now broken and that's the break, but the break is not with the children. Remembering that when you do have that conversation is you want to use language that is appropriate for their age. And in lots of ways, you want to communicate what's happening and then you want to create a space for them to then be able to ask questions. And some children will ask lots of questions immediately, other children will ask nothing and others will sort of drip here and there, they'll then ask questions. When we have conversations, it's really important that we don't apportion blame. Now this can be tricky when there's infidelity, but I guess it goes back to that question, doesn't it? Is that, you know, whenever we are concerned or whenever we're trying to answer a question is what's in the best interest of my child or my children? Is it in the best interest of my child or children to know that there has been infidelity? And that answer may well be yes. Then you have to ask yourself, is it in my children's best interests for them to know about the infidelity now? So some of it, it's about, there may be a reason to communicate. certain things, but it may be about certain times. And again, we're trying to see things from the lens of our children. We, if we are a victim of the infidelity, for example, we may have a strong need, a strong desire that our children understand that we've been put into this position, that we wouldn't have necessarily sought to have the separation or divorce, but our partner, our co-parent is now forging a new relationship or has made a decision they no longer want the relationship or we no longer trust them. And so we've made that decision. And so it can feel like the right thing in order to tell our children, but we have to sort of say to ourselves, we're about to explain to our children that what they, the foundations of their day-to-day lives are no longer going to be in place. Is it actually in their best interest to know how we've got here? Is it going to help us navigate that next process or not? Or is this actually about a desire that I have that my children see that I've tried my best, but they haven't? And again, there's no hard and fast, you should do this, you shouldn't do that. It's about sitting with some of these responses in honesty and asking yourself, actually, what's driving my desire for this to be known? Is it because I know that this is really crucial for my children and really important for them? Or is it about me? It doesn't make what the co-parent has done okay at all, but it's this notion that fundamentally we want to show up in a way that is best for our children rather than anything else. So it's about that don't apportion blame. Talk to the children together when you're making that initial, when you're having that initial discussion, when you're sharing that information initially, even if things are tense between the two of you, that's, you know, it goes back to this idea. We have a responsibility. These are our children and we need to show up in our best selves, despite any animosity we might have for each other and communicate that and be there as a united front in order to help and support them. Now, the next one is about having a plan about logistics. Children will either ask for help, or they will ask for help. And I think that's a really important part of the understanding is that, well, what happens now? You said you're splitting. You said that you don't love each other anymore. You've said that you're starting new lives apart, but you love us and you're still going to co-parent us. What does that mean to me as a child day to day? Children really need that certainty and that clarity about what's happening. Otherwise, they fill the gaps themselves. So if we don't tell them, if we think they haven't asked the question about it, they're not asking. So therefore they're not interested or they don't want to know. Actually they do. They may just not have the language. They might not know how to ask it. But what happens is whatever we don't tell them that they're inquiring about, or they're curious about, they will fill the gaps. They will either fill the gaps by searching it on the internet and who knows what response they may get from that, or they create their own narrative. As what might be happening. So communication is a really crucial piece. And it's quite crucial to begin to have a bit of a plan about the logistics. Yet children generally find it easier when they know what is going to happen. Now, while we're talking about logistics, let's sort of deviate slightly in terms of living arrangements and establishing routines. Some of you, as you are going through the process of separation and divorce, have no financial alternative but to do it. So if you're going through the process of separation and divorce, but to cohabit your existing family home. And some of you are in a position where you do have the options financially in order to, or you've got ability to stay with friends or other things in order to create that split. You have to do what is within the remit of your kind of scope financially. So if you have no other alternative, because you both need to live in the family home, maybe it's for financial reasons, you can't, or maybe for other reasons that that's what you're doing. What is really important to remember is the message that we are sending our children. So if we've made that decision that we are going to split, and then for all sense of purposes, what our child see is mum and dad or mum and mum or dad and dad behaving in a way that is typical of what was happening previously. They don't see a distinction then they're getting mixed messages and then that might confuse them. So my parents have told me that they're going to split, but actually I don't see any of that happening because everything is the same. So it's thinking about how might you communicate that. Now, if it's a financial reason and you both need to live in the house, there's no other option, genuinely no other option. You might want to consider ways that you can create some sense of separation. So that may well be separate bedrooms. Which may well be possible anyway. But I would then encourage you to think about what other things can you do that create that sense of sort of enforcing that understanding that you've made a decision to split and that your children are beginning to see that process of that separation. And for some families that works really beautifully. It's a really helpful way of children beginning to kind of become acclimatized to this transition. And this separation, it's not helpful for all families. So if you have the options, if financially you don't have to be in a situation where you both have to cohabit until a property sold or a lease has kind of run its course, then I would urge you to consider whether that might be more helpful for your children because they can begin to see that this separation or divorce is happening. And the practical side, they're seeing it play out in the day to day. What I would also say in whatever format you're in, whether you have to financially stay together in the same home for a while, or whether you're making that active decision that you're going to live in the same home because you think that's in the best interest of your children is what you need to remember is what the intention is always to be amicable. The process of separation, the legal process, of that divorce and dividing up, whether that's money, whether that's time with the children, whether that's physical things that you possess in terms of possessions, is likely to yield some fractious times. You and your co-parent are also going to be grieving in different ways, but you are going to be going through a grieving process when it comes to that dissolution of your marriage. Or your relationship. And you want to ensure that you've created space for both of you to work through that. And that's why the living arrangements is a really important one to consider. So it's not just the practical, it's not just the financial, it's the how can we navigate this when we're considering what's in the best interest of our children in terms of helping them with that. So it's a complicated set of things that we need to consider, but it's important that we don't just think about, well, this is super practical financially, it makes life easier. Let's just all stay in this, in the home. We're going to be in separate bedrooms. We're going to do separate things. And then in six months time, we will then start afresh in our own places. For some, that can work really well. For others, it makes the transition much more difficult. And therefore, if the transition is difficult for you as a parent, it will be difficult for your children because they'll be picking up on it. So that's an important one to spend a bit of time considering and reflecting on before you communicate that to your children. So it's about making plans for those logistics. It's also about being available to answer their questions and understanding that children don't always ask questions in the obvious way. So like, mummy, what's going to happen with this? Daddy, what's going to happen with that? Sometimes ask questions through their behaviour by suddenly regressing in some way with their behaviour, suddenly being their behaviour being challenging. Suddenly they're not sleeping at night. Suddenly they're being super difficult and defiant, headstrong. So we want to create an environment for both co-parents where our children can feel safe to ask questions. But also for us to look for those questions through their behaviour, through their emotional responses, because they may not articulate them in the obvious way. And we may sort of feel that they're managing or they're coping well, but there may be a whole host of underlying things that we've just not necessarily been able to capture. So that's another important one. And we want to make sure that we don't bottle up our own emotions and, therefore avoid crying in front of them because we think we're going to traumatise them by being upset. You know, it is a sad time and children need to know that they're not alone in their sadness. So we don't want to be hysterical. We don't want to be completely and utterly falling apart in front of them all of the time. That's also not helpful because they then feel that they need to step up and parent you, which we don't want. We want them to work through whatever it is that they're working through and process their own grief, process their own new sort of way of connecting with both sets of parents. But it is about making sure and recognising that we don't need to be this strong, stoic individual and never get upset in front of our children. Because the narrative that potentially could be there for some children is, why am I struggling with this? When no one else seems to be. And so remember, if we don't communicate, if we don't ask questions, if we don't sort of prompt our children and fill in the gaps, our children will fill in the gaps for themselves. So it's about being aware of that. And then it's about obviously communicating broader. So about if you've got children at school age, then it's about communicating to their teachers. If they're at nursery, then it's communicating to their key worker or anyone who is involved. If they're involved in their lives, it's important for them to understand what they might be going through. And also accept that your child may choose to have those conversations with them rather than you. And that's absolutely fine. The whole idea is we want our children to be able to communicate with someone, to ask questions, to talk through their thoughts and their feelings. So that's a really important one. And I think it's once you've told the children it's really helpful if you can make the change as quickly as possible. Now, of course, that may not be possible if you are living together, but you're still going to be making changes within the family home. And so making those changes quickly and swiftly so they understand that we've communicated that there's a separation, that we no longer love each other, we're no longer going to be together. And now you're seeing what that might look like. If you're still at home or what that might look like if you're then having two separate homes and working through that. It is important that we maintain normal routines for them, whether that's within our home as we're transitioning to separate homes or when we've made those separate home transitions. Children thrive by knowing what's happening, by their expectations, by their routines, by their boundaries. So it's really important that we try and establish those as quickly as possible. And if they look different because we're dividing responsibilities, if they're different because they're going to be living across different multiple homes, whatever that might be, the sooner we can establish those routines, the better for them because that provides a certain level of security. And then obviously it's ensuring repeatedly through what we say and what we do that we reassure our children that they are not the cause of the separation. It's an adult separation, an adult decoupling rather than a child. You are still a family. You're just a family that operates in a slightly different way. So those are the ground rules. I now want to touch on how we deal with day-to-day life after that separation. So let me just run through some of these because these are really, they're the crucial nuts and bolts of how we deal with day-to-day life. We can ensure that our children don't, they're not traumatized as a result of it. So the first one is to accept and to recognize that your children may well regress in their behavior in some way. It is normal. It will pass. You have not messed them up. It's a transition. It's a change. And you may well see that. So you may get bedwetting. You may get defiant behavior. You may get anxiety. You may get clinginess. You may get defiance. Whatever it might be, it's remember, we're trying to look at it through the lens of my child or my children. Something has changed. Their foundations have shifted and they're just realigning that. It's maintaining our boundaries, maintaining that compassionate kind of consequences to behavior and constantly asking ourselves what might be driving the behavior. And can I please respond to the emotion rather than the behavior itself? Try and avoid your own guilt driving your choices about acceptable behavior for your children. Children thrive on boundaries and routines. So don't be tempted to lower your bar of expectations. However, obviously be empathetic, understanding, give your children time to talk and offload and accept that this is a normal part of the process. Find a pattern of communication with your ex-partner, which works for you, and doesn't cause you too much pain. And that will probably be a bit of a trial and error. Depends on how amicable the separation and the split is. And there will be times where it will work really well and you'll be amicable. There will be times even in the most amicable of separations and divorces where frictions come in. So it's about finding patterns of communication that work for you. And know that there will be times when things are going to be a little bit will and may get ugly, but know that it will pass. And asking yourself that question each time, what choice can I make here? What's the response that's most appropriate, which is going to help my children's most appropriate response to support my children at this time, except this is a big one, except you may not choose to parent in the same way. We all know that as we co-parent, there's always frictions. We'll always have frictions around the choices we make with any pattern of behavior in a loving family, in a loving relationship. We all parent differently. When we then have that separation and that split, we don't influence in the same way. So it's accepting that we can no longer, particularly if it's not an amicable split where that communication isn't one that you can continue to have in a kind and compassionate way, that you may have situations where your other co-parent may parent in exactly the opposite way that you would ideally like them to. Let's be compassionate. Let's accept that that's where we're at. Let's parent in our home the way that we choose and compassionately have conversations with our children about the fact that the co-parenting now is going to potentially is different. But in the home that you're married to, you're going to have to accept that you're managing. That is how you do things and how your co-parent manages situations in the other household is different to you rather than getting into this whole, well, I'm doing it the right way and they're not, which you obviously don't say, but sometimes that's a narrative that comes out without you realizing. Now I've got three nevers here. Never pass judgment or criticize on your other co-parent. Never place your child in the middle or, as I've said, never place your child as a messenger and never ask your children about what your partner is doing, saying or behaving. It's not their place to act as the go-between or the updater. As ever, as however tempting it might be, and we all slip into these nevers, it's really reminding yourself to try and see it from that lens of your child and to really focus in on a, what can I do in the time that I have with them in those moments for them rather than focusing specifically or probing around what might be happening with the other co-parent. And then the final one that I would say is about accepting that your children at times may appear to take sides, particularly when you think they're being showered with gifts or they're being bribed. Children might love that flavor of the month. They might love that flavor of the month. Yet what child doesn't like being allowed to do whatever they want, whenever they want to, or being given lots of things or staying up super late or having access to technology 24-7, but they also respect boundaries. Be the best version of you day in, day out, and do not worry about what anyone else is doing. It all comes out in the wash. It may not come out in the wash now. It may not even come out of the wash in the next decade, but it will. It will come out. And actually, there is one more thing, which I haven't said. I cannot believe I've not said this. But what is really crucial, if you want to show up as the best version of you as often as you can, and trust me, you will not always show up as the best version of you because we're humans. We have feelings. We're going to get triggered. We're going to get moments where we feel frustrated, let down, used, abused, all of those things. What is really helpful to have is to invest in the best version of you. in our time with friends. with people who we can have as our village, as our support, who've got our back, so that when we're having those moments of feeling that things are unfair, that we've been backed into a corner, that we're frustrated with any situation that we're going through at that time, is that we've got a sounding board. We've got people who we can get on the phone to, we can go for a walk with, we can rattle off 20 messages that will allow us to kind of have that space and that support for us so that we can then show up in those moments as best we can, whilst also accepting that it's not always going to be, we're going to have moments where we don't show up in our best selves and we don't beat ourselves up. We're compassionate and kind with that. So I hope that that is helpful. There is a huge amount of information in this episode and we will try and condense some of the key points down for you to be able to access through the free resource library. But I really would encourage you to listen to the episode a number of times so you can really glean out the key pieces that you need to help you in that situation or to help a friend, or please do share this episode with any friends or work colleagues or work or neighbours that you know that are going through this particularly difficult time. It's tough. It's really tough. It's really tough. It's really tough living and breathing this day in, day out and often worried about the impact that that might have on your children. But I genuinely, how you navigate it will dictate whether your child suffers huge trauma or whether it's another transition that they experience and actually it's something that they can be supremely well supported through. Now, if you want to grab your free resource that will give you these main, bullet points, you need to head over to my free resource library, drmaryhann.com forward slash library, where you'll find the link to download the resource. All you need to do is pop in your email address and you'll get instant access, not only to this week's resource, but all the other free resources across all my podcast episodes. As ever, if you have enjoyed this episode, I would be very grateful if you could rate, follow and review this podcast so that others can find us and we can spread the love. So until next time. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye.
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