Faster than a speeding bullet. More powerful than a locomotive. A bullet-leaved tall buildings at a single pound. There's amazing strange air from the planet Shrechtop. The man of steel. Superman. [Music] Hello and welcome to Superman Lives. This is technically volume three and this is episode one a perfect jumping on point for new listeners and those of you that have known me from other podcasts and Superman lives and its previous incarnations will be familiar with this format and with me for those who are new to the program and new to me. My name is Chris Mo. I am a 17 year old in a 46 year old body and I am from Lafayette Louisiana or I live in Lafayette Louisiana, a heart of cage in country here in South Louisiana. What I think the media calls the call that the deep South I guess they do and I in episode zero if you notice that in the previous track or the previous episode I should say that episode is not necessarily one that you have to listen to so to get really geeky those of you that that remember back in the old days when we had zero hour you may recall back in those days that we got a zero issue maybe like a hundred or so issues already into a book so you are certainly encouraged to listen to have to to understand any episode of Superman lives and on this first episode I am going to be talking a little bit about myself in episode zero I gave my my Superman super fan secret origin in this episode I am concerned with setting the tone really for this entire podcast series and I'm not saying that the series is in its limited but just so that right off the bat folks know what I'm about I'm going to talk about what it is that comprises a Superman adaptation that we can consider faithful the term that is frequently used in that that I I really like is iconic my good friend Michael Kreitzer aka Professor Geek used to do a podcast with him and big owl our friend owl and Michael developed the iconic pages on Facebook some of which are still going today others are still up but they're not necessarily updated and we use that term to apply to the version of the character that is faithful and others will throw out classic and I don't have a problem with that term necessarily but I do prefer to use the term iconic so in this episode I'll be talking to you about what exactly does that mean and and hopefully that will not alienate folks some of you will disagree and that's fine but that is where I'm coming from and it will really be the the foundation for everything I talk about here will it will color my perceptions in form is a better word my perception of everything when it comes to Superman and really any entertainment that I enjoy depending on as we'll get into here we're going to go into some weeds here if you will not really weeds but we'll be up in the clouds a bit we're going to we're going to touch on some things related to philosophy and that may sound dry and boring but we're going to touch on that as I explain to you my my definition how I arrive to and and support that definition of the iconic Superman and what that means so to do that and kind of set a little bit of a context for you I am a currently I am a teacher on the college level I teach freshman English composition which I really do love I am an adjunct professor at two universities here in south Louisiana one is Franciscan University and the other is Baton Rouge Community College and I've been doing that now for about three years I've had a long and storied history when it comes to my my work experience I won't bother you with any of that but for a time I wasn't radio for about eight years which was a dream job of mine that that as we find when we get older with dream jobs the dream is not always the reality it did however lead to me getting my my own setup here at home with a mic and and a mixing board and and so if you're wondering if I have because I often get asked when folks are new to one of my podcasts or maybe YouTube they will ask if I've had radio experience yes so eight years of that sadly where we live the the market for radio is such that terrestrial radio at least it is such that you cannot really succeed all that well and so I moved out of that and then went back to one of my first loves which was education but something I'd also always wanted to do was teach education teach education how about that what is that even me what I wanted to do for a long time was teach on the college level so I went back and I pursued my masters have a masters of fine arts in creative writing and I had started a master's in creative writing years before but we had just started our family and I went and got certified to teach high school English which I did also for about seven eight years high school I should say English was not the only subject that I taught for that entire amount of time so I am married to my beautiful wife Ali we've been married for 19 years and it'll be 19 in this January coming up in January of 2023 we have two beautiful daughters my oldest is Ava she's 16 she will be I'm sorry she's 17 no no wait hang on she let me not add a year it's bad enough we're at 16 yes she's 16 and we'll be turning 17 in October so next month and then my youngest is 14 and she just started high school my oldest Ava is a junior and Camille my youngest is 14 just starting high school they're both at the same high school and so I'm dealing with all of that so if I ever sound harried or strange or unusual more than more than is expected of me it's because I'm dealing with teenage girls at home so that that's my background in a nutshell as far as my profession goes I did podcast sing podcasting for many years had many different iterations eventually went on to YouTube at the the encouragement of some of my friends Michael and Al being a chief among them and I've always had a heart for audio and and I like doing videos and I do videos on my channel called the fan man channel but I really love just traditional podcasting I got started in podcasting right around the time I got started in radio because the reality of radio starting in radio is that you don't just immediately get a show you go through an extensive training process at least that's how it was here and it was a while before I was on the air and so I was really excited to do that even before I got the radio gig I'd been playing around with podcasting this was 2012 so things you know we're kind of they've been around for a while podcasts but I I really was experimenting with it and did some podcasting on a platform which is amazingly enough still going it's called blog talk radio it's very expensive I don't know who can afford to use it probably big companies I'm sure corporations might be using it I can't afford 40 a month to to have some of the features that I have just doing a podcast this way it's not live but if I wanted to I could I could do live through YouTube so I did that for a while and then I in 2013 of course we we had this movie coming out called Man of Steel and it looked from the trailers as trailers are often to convince us it looked like it was going to be I expected it to be a Superman movie and I was very disappointed which we will touch on today in this though today's episode is also the beginning of a three-part series about Superman on film really and so I'll get more into that in subsequent episodes but I I started a podcast in lieu of or not in lieu of but building up to the release of that film and then immediately saw the film for the first time and wish really I say really too much if you've noticed that already you're right I do I I realized upon watching it that this was not what I expected and and it was really it was really it was there's really again it was truly a sucker punch for me as a Superman fan and again I'll get to that later but then that podcast that was volume one it kind of went away for a while I did some more episodes here and there then I met Michael and I met Al and we started doing podcasting together and then I I did my own podcasts which was the big show with Chris Moe and then the geek show and then eventually I I went on to YouTube as the Superman did videos there and also live streams which were like podcasts sometimes video but mostly audio depending on what night or what day I did them had a couple of shows there I had fanman tonight which was a comic book news movie news program that I did on Friday night sometimes Michael and Al joined me and then also I did the second cup cafe a morning show
So for a number of, geez, I think for about a year, maybe almost two years. And then I retired for about seven months. It's been about seven or eight months. I took some time off. I had some adjusting in my personal life with work, new opportunities I had to adjust to. So Superman lives, Mark's a return to really what I enjoy most doing and that's audio, pure audio production. So no matter how you might be listening to this through YouTube, but I'm producing it to be listened to on also on any podcasting software, pod catching software as well. So I welcome you to this, this first episode and that, that I think really in tandem with episode zero gives you what you need to know about me. So I have, I have a minor in philosophy. So my undergraduate degree was a major in English with a concentration that was an unofficial concentration in British literature. And then I started my masters in creative writing, left that after about a year and a half, got certified to teach English, taught that among other subjects for many years, went to radio. And now I'm teaching on the college level, got my masters in fine arts and creative writing. So I'm also a writer, I'm not published, I'm always working to be able to submit something. I mean, if you know anything about writing, if you're writing yourself or you've dabbled, you know how it is, it is not easy. And anybody who thinks it is is confused with the person who's got seven novels published like Stephen King and makes it look easy because once you've published one and you're no longer required to do anything else but writing, of course, it's probably easier, but I even Stephen King would tell you, no, it's never really easy. It gets easier in some ways, but certainly I'm sure it's always difficult. And other. So I'm not there. I'll be Stephen King either, I do love writing horror and suspense and science fiction. And also I have been working on in the midst of teaching and life that is my priority, my family. I have also been working on a creator-owned comic book, which I would like to get published before the year 2025. I'm just being very conservative in my estimate because I don't like to tell people it's coming out in the six months because it's not. It's something that every time I think I've got it figured out, I'm very indecisive, but I'm also, you know, I want this to be one specific thing because I don't really want there to be anything out of place because then I'm going to do something different. And then I'll come back and do something a little similar and I'll start off with superheroes and then I'll go into probably horror. And so I'm taking my time with it. And so those are those are the things that I'm working on in addition to podcasting. So in this first episode, I'm going to be talking about Superman and I'm going to be giving you some ideas. So I, but as I mentioned, I had a, I have a minor in philosophy and I'm going to be bringing in some of that, some of those basic ideas from philosophy that some of you may already know, but you may not know it even from philosophy as much as from logic. If you've ever studied logic and critical thinking, you're going to know some of these terms. This is nothing complex. Nothing that's going to be hopefully a turn off to anyone who's going to say, wow, I don't know what this guy's talking about. And all of it will be relevant to Superman, which is what this podcast is about. Finally, before we take a break and then get on into the first segment of this first episode, I want to mention that Superman lives the title of this podcast and not taken from the title of the aborted several aborted Superman projects on film. This is more of a statement Superman lives. You could put an exclamation point on it, but we see how we saw those of us that watch Seinfeld, we know the problems that caused for Elaine in one of her relationships with the unnecessary exclamation point. So I see it more as a declarative statement Superman lives. And at the end, I will come back and really hopefully put a point on that point. And really sharpen it for you. This idea that Superman lives despite I would say efforts to perhaps change and in some ways even destroy that character and what he is. So we're going to take our first break and when we get back, I will get into what makes a Superman adaptation iconic. Alright, I hope you've returned here with me. So let's talk about this idea. And the reason I want to talk about it is because I feel that it's something that since I'm going to throw out a year and I think it's probably been debated long before. But specifically, we saw this become an issue in the year 2011. And then we saw it become sadly an even bigger and very divisive issue in 2013. What were those years and what did they represent? Why did we begin to have this discussion? Well, 2011 of course saw the rushed admittedly by those in charge of the rushed alleged reboot of DC Comics called the new 52 among the characters that got a really there. The slate wiped clean was Superman. He probably had the most changes of all characters made to him. And that was one thing and that I'm not going to get into a whole lot, although I'll reference to that here and there, the the new 52 Superman in the future. I do definitely want to do an entire episode on Grant Morrison's action comics run. But we also in 2013, just two years later had the most divisive and still not almost a decade later, tremendously divisive incident. And that was the film called Man of Steel. And I will talk about Man of Steel, probably not in depth, but I'm not doing a film analysis of it. But Norddo, I have any interest in doing that. But I do want to get into some main points that were brought up by that film and that we have to address when we talk about and really why we even question this idea of what makes Superman an adaptation of Superman iconic. So this is not really about what makes Superman himself iconic as a superhero. And that could be another episode. But I think that's probably evident to those who are listening by now, right? If you're listening to a show called Superman Lives podcast, then you probably have an inkling of why he's important and why he's important to you for sure. And so this is more about the what would we be able to say is required for an adaptation of the character to be iconic. Now we've had since, and this is one of the remarkable things about Superman, we have had adaptations of Superman going back really just to win in the first three years of his existence, which is unheard of for a fictional character. Other Captain Marvel's another one, the original Captain Marvel, but Superman and Batman spurred that same kind of interest on the part of marketing. But Superman was the first of his kind. He was the first superhero on I maintain as I'm sure some of you as well, the greatest superhero when people make that comparison is you the greatest superhero. What about Batman? Well, Batman and Superman together are my two favorite fictional characters of all time. But I don't really technically consider Batman a superhero in the way that I consider Superman a superhero. And there are ways, there are gradations of that definition, but that's also that would be a world finest episode of Superman lives that would not be the focus of this episode. But Superman gets, you know, radio adaptation, then we get the fly sure shorts. And then we have not long and we get the cereals. Let me not forget that. And then we get the adventures of Superman, which is preceded by George Reeves being in Superman versus the, I mean, I always forget this name because I get it mixed up with fantastic for, but Superman versus the mole people, right? Or the mole men, I think it was, I forget. But that was a theatrical release. And of course, it was kind of a, in a way, a pilot for Superman, the adventures of Superman TV show, which is I, I'll just tell you this, you know, I'm 46. So I was way past being around when that, that show started. And I only discovered it in the last 10 or 15 years, not because of the lack of interest or even knowledge existed, but really just not availability. I didn't find it available anywhere. It wasn't in reruns and it wasn't on any, any services that I was able to catch until me TV and me TV outside of seeing some episodes on YouTube and catching clips here and there. That's where I really began to be able to see it more. And I also got the DVD sets eventually the first two seasons. I believe that that's the adventures of Superman with Georgia Reeves and the Superman films with Christopher Reeve. Those are the two most iconic film adaptations, okay, big and little screen. And so you may hear that and go, well, I don't think so. And that's fine. They are the most iconic and yet there are others that are also iconic. And so I don't want you to think those others don't exist. I'm just saying that in my opinion, I think most scholars of comic books and adaptations, comic adaptations and also students of that history would agree. They've had the biggest impact of lasting, the depth of that impact.
despite the fact that right now, which is unsurprising, Warner Brothers has very little use for the adventures of Superman, right? Which is a shame, but it's also, you know, last week perhaps, let's see, today's the 23rd. I believe the 19th of this month marked the 70th anniversary of the debut of the adventures of Superman TV show. So there may be those saying, yes, 70 years, what do we do with this character? The character of Superman was around much longer, even by then, it was about, you know, what, 12, 13 years. Because Superman, adventure of Superman, the game began in '55. So this idea that that is too old has no appeal to me is very frustrating. But that's again a separate, and I will do an episode on the adventures of Superman. So I mentioned that because to me that sets the standard. And there are, in these two takes, we're going to come back to them. There are going to be some things that are very different about how Superman is approached. But it's important to mention both because they take place not at the end of spectrums of a spectrum rather. But they do take place at very different times in the history of Superman. And that's important to note because when we hear folks trying to defend a deconstruction of the character, and I'll just say right now, Man of Steel is a deconstruction. It's not Superman. And if you think I'm biased or you think, oh, you just don't like Zack Snyder. This was admitted by the writer of the Man of Steel, which is David Goyer, and was also admitted by Zack Snyder. And many of the interviews done around the time after I thought was very interesting, not before, but after the film was released. They admitted we didn't want to do Superman. We wanted to do a modern interpretation. And they did that. Now, is it Superman? That is what I maintain. No, it isn't. It can be called Superman. It can seem like Superman, but it isn't. Right. And that distinction is what this episode really is going to be all about. And then that will go into the next two episodes, talking in a little bit more detail about other areas of particular films. So when we see a deconstruction like that, when we see that in contrast with a, which is also used as a defense many times, an alternate universe take the original, of course, being the multiverse takes. And then you had, well, they called that post crisis, which were the, the elseworlds takes. And then here we are now back where we started with these different multiverse takes. And, and so people will say, well, that's fine because it's just another take. But I'm going to also touch on that here, the importance of the big screen or it could be the small screen or even the video game adaptation. Why that is so important. And it's importance more so even in some ways than the primary source, which of course, the comics. So what is it that makes an adaptation of Superman iconic? What has to be there for that character of Superman to be present, who is also is going to be what's the primary source of this definition, the comic books. What, what are we looking at? So let's start with this. Now this is where I said I was going to get into some philosophy. And this is hopefully not going to be, I am a teacher. So I hope I can present it to you in a way that's understandable. So in philosophy, this is kind of generalizing. I'm not going to get into whose philosophy and all those applications. But there's the idea that a thing anything. And this also applies to you and me as persons. We have a substance. And then we have what is called the accidents or sometimes the adjunct things that are adjunct to us. And so to give you an idea of what that means, substance is the very, it's the inherent quality of a thing. So the easiest way to think about it before I give you some some practical applications, it is that thing that quality that if you did not have that present, you would no longer have that thing, whatever it might be, or person right now with a person, you're going to get into a whole lot of different philosophical metaphysical. And then yes, biological scientific argument says to what would be the substance of a person. That's beyond the scope of this show. So we're not going to get into that. But stick with me there. So the substance, it is that quality without which we no longer have that thing we're talking about. If removed, if changed too much, we no longer have that thing substantially. Now you could call it that, but it wouldn't be. And then we have what's called the accidents or another term that's used in philosophy for the accidents or the adjuncts. And so these are the things that are not inherent. These are the things that depend on the substance. And these things actually can change. These things, if we do change them, we don't change the substance. The danger, however, can be that we think we're only changing the accidents. But we are in fact, perhaps if we don't really know the substance, we are going to end up changing some of the substance. Okay. So you could conceivably change all of the adjunct qualities of a thing and yet never change the substance. Whereas it's possible if you don't know where that substance begins and ends, you may end up changing some of the substance. Now it should also be pointed out if your goal is to change the substance of a thing, then you absolutely know where it begins and ends. And that informs how you're able to not only seemingly change the adjunct qualities, right? The accidental qualities. You're also then, and those again are the, are the non-essential qualities. They can be changed without changing the substance. No, hey, I can go this far. I can change these, make it look like I'm just changing the accidental qualities, these externals, but I'm really, I'm also changing the substantial. And it may be that you've never thought of any of this in this way and that's fine. That's why I'm here to introduce you to, hey, this is how I see it. This is how I think about it. And I believe that this is true. And I think it is certainly from philosophy, that standpoint, but the literary position, is always going to be my main influence as, as a person who has an education in English and literature and writing. I'm always going to be coming at it from that perspective, right? So when we talk about this, we're looking at it also in a literary way. So we have the substance. It is that essence of a thing that if I don't have it or I change it too much, I no longer have that original thing. And then the accidents, those things that can be changed, let me give you a non Superman related example, we can always go back to that. You can refer back to that if you get lost at any, any point. I think this is a great example because it's very clear to understand and to see, let's use the word auto mobile. Okay. And as I do often in my work as both a teacher and a writer, I always encourage people to break down words and word roots and meanings. Let's take that word auto means self. And then mobile mobile or mobile is from the Latin mobile to move. So we have self moving, self movement or even self propelled. That's what an auto mobile is. So it could be a truck, it could be a car, it could be an SUV, it could be a tractor, anything that has the ability to move itself of its own power. That is an auto mobile. Now picture your automobile. It's in your garage. It's in your parking, your driveway, whatever picture your automobile. And then picture that you have the ability, it can be magical, whatever you want, because this is just where we're just experimenting here with this thought idea that you can go out and at the power of your very will, you're able to change anything you want about your automobile. Think about that. So picture it in your mind or you can look out the window if it's convenient, if you're in your car, you're even better. While you're listening, think of it. Now think of the color of that vehicle. Does that seem like it would be essential to the auto mobileness of your automobile. Think about that. I'm not going to answer that question for you. Then let's think about the shape. Is the shape of your automobile. Is it inherent to the automobileness? If you could somehow change the shape, if you could round the straight corners there, angles, could you round off what square, could you make it whatever shape you wanted? Would that change the substance of it being self moving? Consider to continue to think about that. What if you were perhaps to even change the height, the weight? Maybe you were again, you have this power, this ability. So you can change the color. You can change the shape. You can change the height. You can do all sorts of, let's say magical things. Just by thinking about it, it becomes will. If you've changed those things, so the color, the size, the type of vehicle, perhaps any other thing you can imagine, have you changed its ability to be self moving? The answer is no, right? Because if I change my car, which my car has horrible peeling paint, my car is black, you see a lot of the primer underneath. If I were to go get a total repaint of the car, it would still be my 2013 Nissan Altima, right? And if I were to be able to round the edges off and make it one big bubble, you know, but it's still head certain elements that it could be self moving, it would still be an automobile. That then begs the question, if I change those things, those are the accidents. I don't need them.
for it to be self-mobile. What then are those things that I need to have that are in fact inherent to being self-mobile? The first thing, if you're going along with this and you're getting where I'm going, the substance of that automobile is going to be the first thing that helps it to be self-moving. And what is that? You might, there's two things. What is the first one? If you said the engine, you're absolutely right. Okay. Because the engine is actually three things, which I guess could differ depending on the vehicle. But we'll say for the sake of safety, there's three things. So the first is an engine. Self-moving vehicle needs an engine, right? Whether it's an automobile that we're talking about, it could even be a train, it could be an airplane. It will need engines to be self-moving. The other thing, in particular, when we talk about an automobile, it needs to have tires, right? So I've got to have an engine for it to be an automobile. If I didn't have tires, it would have an engine. It's not going anywhere, right? You'd have it up on blocks and you could turn it on, run the engine, it's not going to move. If you had tires, but no engine, well, you could push it, but then it's not self-mobile. You could pull it, but then it's not also not self-mobile. So the tires are inherently important to its definition, to its substance, the same for the engine. And then a third thing, what do we need for an automobile? We need fuel. And so if I had tires and I had an engine, but I had no fuel, it's not going anywhere. As I've learned, when I've not realized I didn't have enough gas, I've had to push it. Not self-mobile, it was depending on me to move it. Or to, again, sometimes if I've had to get it pulled somewhere, right, toad. So those are the three elements that are essential to an automobile. Those are the substance, these three things, right? The engine, the tires, and then the fuel. Those are essential. If my black car was certainly turned yellow, it has not affected those three things. If I suddenly rounded the edges off, changed it into a big bubble, as long as it still had an engine, had a tires and fuel, it would still be an automobile. So those would be accidental adjunct changes, right? And those changes would then be, you know, there'd be some freedom there if I wanted to change it. If I wanted to put stickers on my car, that would not change it being an automobile. And we can go on, and I think this is very clear by now. So you can understand this and see it in your head. So with that in mind, we then want to take this idea of the substance of a thing and then the accidentals of a thing and we want to apply it to Superman, okay? What is it about Superman that is substantial? What has got to be there? Now, if your first thought is, well, he's got to have superpowers, technically even that's not true, okay? Because one of the beautiful things about the character that I think is so inspiring and one of the reasons so many writers over so many years and in so many media have told stories of powerless Clark Kent, powerless Superman, that is not his main source of being super. What makes Superman super isn't his powers. So we can't say that substantial, although it definitely is important, right? I mean, we definitely would say it's close to being part of the substance. But I would say the very substance of the character is going to be really one of character in the sense of the qualities of this person, right? A fictional person, but nonetheless of Superman. It's going to go beyond even his powers. And we've seen so many great stories, you know, one of the most lamented stories in the history of the character that I actually enjoyed. I think it was kind of mishandled, the execution kind of failed, but I enjoyed it for what it was. And that was the Superman blue Superman red. I thought that electric blue storyline was making yet another comment like the death and return of Superman. What is it that makes Superman substantially who he is? And they had done that also in that particular run of comics, the post crisis. They had had stories where he lost his powers because of the, I think it was the crisis of the Crimson Creme tonight, he had lost his powers at other times. And so we explore then in those stories, well, what is it really? And it was so great, the brilliance. And I'm going to talk about this when we get closer to the 30th anniversary. But the death and return of Superman was really exploring. What is it that makes him super? Is it the suit? Can you change the suit and you still have Superman? Is it that he is what if he was half man, half machine? What if he had lost some of his humanity, but he still had the powers? What if he inspired somebody and that person maybe was so inspired by them because it was still him in a different body completely and wearing armor? Would that still be Superman? So it was exploring that what if you cloned him? Would you still have the essence of Superman if it was a copy of him? You know, and a young copy at that? Asking that question, of course, the lesson we learned is let know what is essential to Superman is his character, his moral center. And this is the big stumbling block for many people because and I hate to make generalizations, but occasionally I will. But there are many people today who believe that it is okay to have a morally gray Superman. And it's fine to believe that, but that's not the character. That is not the character. What we talk about what makes him substantially who he is that has never been the character. All right. And so for us to say, well, I prefer a morally gray Superman is fine, but understand that it's really not Superman. Now, it's a potentially a version, but we don't want to use that as a defense because we have to always understand context. And I'll get to that as well later on. So what is it substantially that Superman has to have that if he doesn't have these qualities, he's no longer Superman. He must have the moral code that is instilled in him by Jonathan and Martha Kent. And that means that he must have from an early age a respect for all life. He must have a desire to whether it is, usually it is in most versions of the character, it is imparted to him by Jonathan and Martha Kent, a desire to use his remarkable abilities to help other people who are in need, not for his own gain, but to use them for others. And a desire to put himself at the service of all people and himself last. And this idea that he will fight for those who can't fight for themselves. He will help those who can't help themselves. So at the core of the character, which some people might not like this term, but I don't use it in a religious sense. As you go look up the definition of this word, it's an A religious meaning, savior, a person who saves. That really is what Superman is at his heart. And part of that is a respect for life. And so when you think about the character, the more you think about him and the more you read about him, the more you know and you've read various iterations. And I have written, I wrote a 30-page paper, I'm sorry, a 50-page paper in my first graduate program on Superman Abatman. I've studied the history of both characters and I've watched various iterations and adaptations and read hundreds, if not thousands of comics. And my estimation from all of that is that more often than not, you are going to find this supported that that is who this character is. Now, some people might say, it has, they might say, "Yeah, it has to be Jonathan Martha Kent. You might agree with that." But what about Chris Moe? What about when he was just raised at the orphanage? That was a very short period, right? Of time when he was still in flux, not fully developed, right? Which also goes to that big elephant in the room right now, the killing. And I'm going to get to that. We have to talk about that, but I'm not there yet. But yes, he was in the orphanage. And so you think about that was always a part of the Golden Age origin and even sometimes it would sneak in with the Silver Age origin. But you know, you see it in the Flicer shorts, was watching the first one today, in fact. And that's there. Whether it was there or not, at some point he had human morals, important, imparted to him. And they aren't, they aren't specific to one belief system. They're not specific even really to one country. They are specific to humanity. And so here's where some people are listening to this. And if you're still here listening, you might go, "Okay, this is where he loses me." Because what I'm about to say is a radical idea, but it's not political. It's an apolitical idea. It is a cultural and it is a mythological and it is a human reality. And that is that there are universal human truths debating them, questioning them, doesn't make them any lesser reality. So one of those is respect for all life. One of those is that if you have the ability to do something that can help other people, you do it. One of them is that if you can help someone, even if you don't have the ability, you try to help. These are universal human values that life is precious, human life in particular. And this goes across all boundaries and divides. It goes across all time and some have valued life more than others, but that value for human life, I believe is inherent to the human person. Perhaps I'm being too optimistic. That's the Superman influence on me. And so that is core to the character. There is a wonderful elseworld that I read only the first issue, but I read about the second issue years ago and I've always meant to go back. Superman, I'm sorry, JLA the nail, the first issue deals with, or maybe there were two actual scenes.
series. So this first series deals with what do we do without Superman? What would the Justice League in the world be like without Superman? And so it's kind of almost that post crisis take on them without Superman. I don't know if Batman's in it, he may be. But then there was a sequel, another nail of memory serves. And you find out that Clark Kent did come to Earth, but he was raised by an Amish family. And so he never really went out into the world. And so, and someone can please correct me via email or however you want to do it, because I could be remembering this wrong. And then eventually he does get called upon to use his abilities. But that really doesn't even necessarily have to be Jonathan and Martha Kent in and else worlds, as long as someone gave him those human moral values. But putting all that aside, when we talk about the central version, what what comic book fans would call the prime version or the main universe version, that is always going to have to be Jonathan Martha Kent, because they are they are part of that foundation of the origin. Alright, and not know for people who come back and say, well, not in the golden age, recall that that was a time of flux. So that will bring me here in a second to one of my other other notions. So let's talk about respect for life. This is the elephant in the room. Like many people, I saw like Mark Wade famously, I saw Man of Steel and was incredibly put off by him killing Zod. But my my horror at that film, my shock really, because we were not sold that movie. We were sold something very different. My shock at that had already really, it had been certainly lessened because of the two shockers that came before it. The first one, of course, was the biggest offense in my opinion and understand, this is not an accidental offense. This was calculated by someone, David Goyer, I say, particularly because of the three people involved with the film, the producer, of course, Christopher Nolan, screenwriter, David Goyer, and then of course director Zack Snyder of those three, we know, get David Goyer is the one who has said, I have the most comic book reading experience. He is the most knowledge, which you would need to have if your goal, and he stated it was and so did Nolan and so did Snyder to deconstruct Superman. He knew that this was true. That Superman has to have the kints. So notice if in Man of Steel that he is immediately, we see the kints are not the iconic John, Jonathan and Martha Kent. They don't instill in Clark this idea that yes, you do to use the Batman v Superman, so called Martha Kent's phrase, you don't know the world damn thing. Completely it at odds with what iconic Jonathan and Martha Kent throughout up to that point, every iteration except for else worlds had said in the prime version of Superman. That was you do owe something to everyone because you have abilities that they don't have. You can do things they can't. You can help people in a way that no one else can. And this is of course not even in light of other superheroes. So that means you are the one you do owe this because you can do these things. And even if you didn't have these powers, we would have taught you you owe something to your fellow human being. That is part of their moral code. And and that's a universal human truth. Imagine and you see it, you don't have to imagine it. We can look around the world that we're in, even on a small level. You know, I'm never going to get into politics with this. Go to Walmart. Okay. And notice how many times you will see a cart that has been left out in the middle of the parking lot or you'll see something an item dropped off of a shelf. How many times have you heard or maybe it's been you spend me to until I gave it some thought. Man, wish these people would do a better job of picking up stuff around here or why can't people bring their carts back? Here's why sometimes it's carelessness. Absolutely. Other times we have this mentality. That's not my problem. I didn't leave that cart there. I didn't drop that. I didn't knock that that item down. I don't work here. It's not my, it's not my problem. When we have that attitude and it then goes to its most logical, expansive conclusion, we have horrible things happen in history in humanity. History is what shows us this. It is my problem. And so that's the Superman mentality. I'm here and I can do this and I'm going to do it because I can and because nobody else perhaps is doing it. And even if there were other people doing it, I would still do it because that's how he was raised. That is the Clark Kent. So that we that we call iconic and the Superman we call iconic. So if you take that out, Jonathan and Martha Kent and stilling that value in him. And I think that's his most base value. Help people no matter who they are. Even we have seen Superman famously help his villains. Sometimes, you know, to his destruction, but that is who he is. That's part of the iconic Superman. We had a Jonathan Kent who told his son, well, you know, hide your hide your light under a bushel basket, right? We had a Jonathan Kent who said, yeah, maybe you should have let those kids die. And no, it wasn't him just trying to introduce an idea to son. Think about what would happen if you had let them die. That I could have forgiven. What if he was being devil's advocate with Clark and said, what would have happened if you had let them die? And then Clark said, well, you know, and then they would have had a maybe a conversation about Clark. You can help these people. No one else could have you are here to do things. Nobody else can. If you to let these people die, you would have failed them. That's not what they said. His mother reinforces that thought in this in the bat flick of the, well, Batman, Superman movie, when he says, she says, you don't know them a damn thing. And so these are not the kents. Okay. Then not only that, Jonathan Kent does not instill a love or respect for all life in his son, because he doesn't even seem to respect his own life. And this was the second sucker punch for me. So the first was seeing these are the kents and the whole bus thing and Jonathan Kent's reaction and Jonathan Kent, you know, telling Clark, hey, I'm afraid I'm worried you might be taken away from us. Jonathan Kent, the iconic Jonathan Kent and the iconic Martha Kent. Can they be afraid of that? Of course, that humanizes them. But they would never let their fear get in the way of their son helping other people. They would never put themselves in the way of him because they love him primarily and because they know what he can do, what he means to the world. He is for the world. And that's part of their struggle is having to let go of him, right? Which every parent goes through. But for different reasons, if you have a kid, you know, so, um, and one of the great signs of this, one of the great illustrations of this throughout of all, so all Superman lore is the, the TV show smallville. Those were not fear mongers. They did fear. Yeah, absolutely. But they also recognize Clark only you can do these things and you have a duty to everyone who needs help because you were given these gifts. That's the kents. So then we have Jonathan Kent saying, uh, let me die, which was a contrivance, right? It didn't make any sense in the story in no story. Let me die. And Clark does. That's also not Jonathan Kent. His life would have value. He would have taught his son to save him. And Clark would have found a way. And of course, we hear the debates over the years. Well, he couldn't get to him in time. Somebody would have found out that is not Jonathan Kent to say, your secret is worth more than the life of anybody. Never would that have been something. The iconic Jonathan Kent would have taught the iconic Clark Kent. And so not only that, the iconic Clark Kent having learned that lesson of all the people on earth that he would not have allowed to die if he could help it would be his beloved father, right? How close is he to Jonathan Kent? So once those scenes passed, and I was really in a place where nothing else is going to surprise me, right? And I had no, I had no spoilers. I knew nothing. Then we had this long, prolonged, what I'm going to probably offensively for some people and I apologize, but I think it's a very fitting analogy. What I call 9/11 light because we had a level of destruction. Yes, I know it wasn't real, but the level of damage done, the, the, and when you really think about the amount of people that had to have died hundreds of thousands and the selfishness of the so-called character Superman, who isn't right, who could have, and again, the defense, well, you're just learning how to be Superman. Common sense for somebody who, who isn't Superman with those powers would be, oh, people could hurt by collateral damage. Let me do something about that. Let me try to save people as this fight is going on. We don't see that happen. And then we see the next snap. And by the point the next snap came, I was in such a, I was so numb in a lot of ways. I was so stunned that it was like, yeah, well, that, that, that makes sense. So people that are angry at only that, you're missing so much more because it made sense, right? Now, as a story element, no, it was contrived. It was ridiculous. Now he cares why? Because oh, and they admitted we put that in because originally Zod was going to just be sucked out back to the phantom zone. That was added by, I think the suggestion of, I think Snyder suggested or maybe it was Nolan because they weren't sure how to end the film. I know we'll have our so called hero snap his enemies neck. That's a great ending. So by then though, that's not the main problem. But does Superman have an incredible respect for life? My question is to answer to that as another question. If you had the sensory abilities that Superman has and you could see a person, their, their energy, right? And this is not just something that that we got from birth right, Mark Wade.
If you could see a person's life leaving their body, you could hear the difference between a human being, that heartbeat stopping easily versus us having to use an instrument to do it. Wouldn't you have a tremendous respect? And wouldn't that begin if you grew up on a farm with the death of animals around you? And wouldn't you then have the most profound respect and wouldn't you work as hard as you could to make sure with your incredible power that you never harmed anyone intentionally or otherwise? The answer to those questions is yes. And that is Superman, iconic Superman. So that brings me then to another one of these iconic Superman requirements. And that is what I call the primacy of consistent portrayal. Because when man of steel happened, when that film came out, many people defended it saying, well Superman killed people in the golden age. The kents weren't there as much in the golden age. They came around later. So that's okay because this has that happened before. That is by the way an erroneous argument just on, it's a fallacy just on the most basic level. Because this person killed before it's okay if they kill again. And I'm using killing just as an example. It could be anything. Oh, so because it happened once that was that was the right decision. So if they do it again, that's fine. No, that's no basis. But let's talk about the idea of this consistent portrayal. Superman came out was first published action comics one 1938. Okay. We celebrated the 80th anniversary in 2018. So now he is Superman. Superman is now 84. I think yeah, 84 years old. I'm bad at numbers. Not a math teacher. He's 84 years old. We have to look at that and we can't just look at one era to determine who Superman is, who the iconic Superman is. We could, but we would be having a very really sad kind of myopia. We have to look at the 84 years and we have to look not only a comics, we have to look at every adaptation that's been made and we have to weigh that. That's called critical thinking. It is not something that is often used in these defenses of things that people just want to like. And that's one of these big issues, which we'll get into later in another episode. But it is incredibly important that we recognize you have to look at 84 years. You can't look at and really when we look at the golden age, Superman killing was never something he went out of his way to do. Nora was it something that was something he took pleasure in, nor did it last by my if I recall correctly researching it. That was maybe a year if that. And it was not that much. It wasn't every issue in that year. So 83 years, right? With rare exception, bears out against that and shows us what? What is the primacy of that consistent portrayal? What is that consistent portrayal? A man who respects all life goes out of his way to save all life and will put his own life at risk. And sometimes he'll even do that not even to save a life, but for the hope that he can save a person's soul. And I bring to you as an example of that one of the most moving moments in the history of Superman comics for me personally. And I think for a lot of people that have read this, the original Superman death of Superman issue. All right. I forget the number. But this was a beautiful story. And there is a wonderful moment where of course Lex Luthor has for those that aren't familiar, Lex Luthor has announced that he is rehabilitated. He wants to help instead of hurt the world. He doesn't want to hurt or kill Superman anymore. And Superman meets him when he's been really he's requested to meet with Superman. Superman goes talks to him. And then he shakes his hand and says, uh, now that you want to help people, let's be friends. Let's be friends. And I remember reading that and I've read it many times, but the last time I read it was about a year ago. And it really hit me how wonderfully childlike, not childish, how wonderfully childlike that is. Let's be friends. Superman will go to any great length if he believes that a person can be saved, whether it is literally their their life or who they are. If they can change, he wants to be part of that. That's the character. Right. And so we see in that story that he is of course able to be. He he does risk his life and sadly loses it. Spoil or Lord, it is called the death of Superman. But it is part of that character. So it it is inherent to his character. It is substantial that he respects all life. And that is the prime portrayal over the bulk of 84 years. We've had exceptions. Those exceptions do not. That's why we have that phrase. Right. Exceptions to a rule. Those exceptions do not a rule make. So the early golden age when the character was still in flux, Jerry Siegel and Joe Schuster still working those things out. Then of course Whitney Ellsworth coming in national publications and saying kids are emulating and looking up to these heroes, including the Batman. We don't want them to kill anymore. And then we we go to other examples. Of course other people since Man of Steel have brought up other things. They've brought up Superman 22 by John Bern. They've brought up Superman 2 for some reason. And these and then they bring up the Ellsworlds as a defense. But understand that none of those are the are those are all exceptions. The primacy of consistent portrayal tells us Superman does not kill. He respects all life. And I would argue too. One of the compelling things about the character is that it would be easy for him to kill wouldn't. But we see that one of the core things about Superman is that he doesn't do anything for himself. He doesn't use his powers for self gain for personal gain. And we would like to think we would not do that if we had his powers. But we know we would probably do that. How many of us would go find some charcoal. We'd be gone through the grocery store getting all the all the charcoal. I don't know if that would work. I'm not a scientist. But we'd be gone to a coal mine and we'd be making diamonds left and right and getting rich. We would do so many things. He doesn't. That is who this character is. So over 84 84 years with rare exception, that's who this character is. That's iconic Superman. This character who respects life and serves humanity not himself. And then finally, let's talk our third. Let's talk about authorial intent. The intent of the authors we had that's always important when we talk about a character and who they are supposed to be even in an adaptation. What is the intent of Jerry Seagull and Joe Schuster? And I've done a lot of research on this and have written about it in academic writing and have talked about it in podcasts before. So but I'll be very brief. Jerry Seagull lost his father to violent crime. And it is very clearly known by people that have interviewed him when he was still alive and people that have written about him and researched him that part of Superman was a very big part of the character was a wishful film. And not of what we usually see people saying about Superman, it's wishful film that wishing we could fly and have powers. His wishful film that was that he would have been strong enough to defend his father that he could have been strong enough to prevent the death of his father that he and Schuster. I'm sorry. I said Seagull and I meant I said Schuster and I meant Seagull. Both Seagull and Schuster both were not they were kind of bookish today we would say nerdy guys. They were not big fit guys athletes and they had a sense they had a feeling of yeah I wish I was more powerful. That we also saw with the Batman because both characters took on and again I wrote about that I wrote a paper on this. They both took on organized crime which was a huge concern in that era. What did they do? They couldn't go out themselves and fight crime. Let's create a characters that will inspire people to want to fight evil. And so what would the what would the authorial and tent be right? These guys who early on in Superman's gestational period right he hadn't yet fully formed in those or I would say the first 10 10 or so years. So they are learning how impactful this character is on kids who are already very impressionable right and they're saying you know what we don't and Whitney Ellsworth saying we don't want him to kill do you think their intent would have then been now we want him to kill people toss people left and right because kids are going to emulate them kids were flying jumping off buildings not buildings but they were they were getting hurt jumping off in the couch or what have you in early early in the in the in the introduction of this character because he was so inspirational and so universally appealing and you really think that their their intent was that he would be this guy who would kind of really not treat all life with incredible respect. And I think we can safely say no all right we can safely say also going by their writing the bulk of their writing again this primacy of consistent portrayal more stories that were written and drawn by them showed a Superman that respected life and didn't take it versus one that did. So that is then another reason for this iconic portrayal and then finally the unities of the character is not really a reason as much as something we should always look for when we talk about what makes a character iconic what are the unities of the character okay and the unities are the substance and so and then the accidents but the unities are the things that we can always go back to and say this is Superman. So to wrap this up this this discussion of iconic Superman. It really is very important that we also point out that you we could have with with Man of Steel the problem was never the accident.
the digital qualities. The costume, did I, did I want to see the iconic suit on screen? Absolutely. I want to see the original classic suit. Yes. Would I have liked it? Have seen that? Did that tell me, hey, I'm not gonna, did I say I'm not going to see the movie because of that? No, I was there the night they had those Walmart special screenings. They had to get up at like six or at least I did to go buy the tickets when they went on sale. I was there because I'd seen the trailers. I'd read about it. I thought this was going to be a Superman movie. I had no reason till I saw the movie to believe it would be anything but a Superman movie. I knew there'd be changes. I knew that the Clark Kent identity probably wasn't going to be a factor. I didn't like it, but I thought, well, you know, and the question is, is that iconic? At that point, we're getting into, we're going beyond the iconic qualities of the character. We're getting into more about characterization. And I would say it depends really on the story you're telling. But you could start. You could have had this movie. Have Clark lowest nose that he's Clark right off the top. It would not have changed a whole lot. There is something lost when you get rid of the triangle or at least the secret identity for a while, but it doesn't change the core element of the character. That wasn't even a huge blip on the radar as to why Man of Steel is a problematic film. And isn't a Superman film. So no, that was never a problem for me, but then I saw the movie. So the suit, no, I didn't care for it. I like the, I still think that symbol was great. It was very much like the golden age, what became the earth to symbol. But that was not the problem. So these are then, this is really the iconic Superman. It's got to be there. He has to be, the kins have to be intact. And finally, I said I would talk about this and I want to come back to it. The argument that is often made is, well, this is just another version of Superman, right? And so it's okay because we have different versions of characters now. It is less okay today in 2022 than it was in 2013. Here's why. Because sadly, despite my love for the medium and I'm sure some of you will agree, despite our great love for comic books, most people. And I have had this experience in person, especially with my students in real life. When I talk about going to comic books, many people, one of the first things, if not the always the first thing they say is, they still make those. So John and Jane Q, General Audience, doesn't know about Superman comics. You could go to the mall and interview 500 people and I bet you a very small, maybe 1% has even ever seen, maybe not even read a Superman or any other kind of comic book. They've seen a Superman movie. They've seen a Superman TV show. They played a Superman video game. Of course, we need more of those. But they know the character. Even if they've never seen those, they know what he's about. Just fascinating. It's really culturally, so culturally ingrained, who and what Superman is. There was a study done years ago. I wouldn't actually do a full episode on this that studied what the impact was of images on the actions of people. And so these researchers took a poster of a bicycle and they put it on the wall and they asked the test subjects to work puzzles as part of helping them on their research. So they worked the puzzles and they had one group looking at the poster of the bicycle in a room and another room had a poster of Superman. The ones that they asked in the room that had the Superman poster, they said, would you mind doing a few more of these? I know it's the time is up now and you agreed to an hour. Would you mind staying after more people who were in the room with the Superman poster agreed to help even though their time was up that they had agreed upon? The outcome of the study was that there's something about the image of a superhero. And in particular, they use Superman that actually changes a person and makes them more altruistic. That is an ingrained, wonderful power that is beyond anything that I think most of us will ever create in our lifetime. And so this is far deeper and more than just a comic book character. Right? It's just a comic book. This is something that goes that deep is that and not just here in the United States, but globally. There are places where they may not know Superman's origin, but they know that symbol and they know what it stands for. And they may even if they're wearing it, it may suddenly imbue them with they'll imagine they have these abilities. So this is something far beyond just a comic book character. And the movies out of all the adaptations, cinema has the biggest reach no matter how popular video games are, they do not have the reach that film does. So when people say there's no problem with a deconstruction of Superman because it's just another version, they're missing the critical point. Then adaptation has the greatest responsibility. Even more so now than comics, it has the greatest responsibility to be a faithful adaptation because for a generation, it will define that character or define the deconstruction of that character. And that is what we've had now since 2013. We've had a deconstructed character called Superman, but that isn't Superman. And that is why it's very important for us to have a podcast like this, to have these discussions, to study, to read about the character and his legacy. And for many of us, obviously for me, because I'm doing this show, Superman means much more to me personally than just entertainment. And anytime that argument is trotted out, that's just entertainment, much more. It's modern myth, and it goes beyond our basic understanding. Most people, we don't understand the level this works on. Of course, anthropologists and sociologists and even people in the religious area and philosophy have studied it for years, and still studying. Fascinating. But this is what makes Superman iconic. You can choose now. So well, let me finish my idea about the alternate version. So can you have an alternate version, like if you wanted to have a darker version of Superman, or even a version that isn't Superman, could you have done that? Absolutely. There's nothing wrong with that. But let's go back in comics, at least, to when comic companies began to look at alternate versions. That was DC Comics, and it was the Silver Age. And in the Silver Age, they introduced the Multiverse. Here's another version of Superman. He's older. It's the Golden Age Superman. The Flash, et cetera. And then as time went on, you'd maybe see an evil Superman. You'd see an evil Batman, et cetera, et cetera. And all these factors that we talked about, right? The Kents might not be there. It might be another couple, or one of my favorite elseworlds of all time is speeding bullets, where Kael L lands in Gotham, and is found by Thomas and Martha Wayne. They adopt him. And so those are wonderful stories. They have a purpose, but they have a context. The first Superman story was not speeding bullets. It was not a multiverse story where he's evil. Every generation is going to have Superman. And all of these comic book characters now, this is just the reality. They're going to have that character defined for them. They're understanding by an adaptation. And most likely, it will be a film adaptation. And that is why the filmmakers have the greatest responsibility. They will define that character for a generation. And once you do that, then you-- once you have that context, then you can go in. See, that's what DC did with the multiverse. They waited till those characters had been established. Hey, here's the multiverse. Here's different versions and things change. Hey, here we reestablished all these characters in after crisis. Hey, here you go. Here's elseworlds. That's when you can do it. That's fine. But if you start with a deconstruction and you're telling a new generation, this is who Superman is allegedly, you have destroyed the character. And you've done irreparable damage. Do I believe a new movie could come out that was an iconic Superman movie that could change that? Absolutely. Will I believe-- do I believe it'll happen? Well, that brings us to another episode. That will be a topic for another episode. So I want to thank you so much for listening. If you're still here, we went a little longer than I would have liked. I had a lot to say on this topic. Thanks so much for listening. You can get in touch with me. We do have a Facebook page. Superman lives. You can contact me there. I may be switching to a group so there can be more interaction I haven't decided yet. Also, you may be listening to this through YouTube. And it will be available on YouTube in two places-- my fanman channel, as well as the Superman Lives channel. And then also it should be, as of this weekend, by the time you're hearing it, it should be available in all podcasting providers, pod catchers, as some call them. So it should be out there. And if you want to get in touch with me by email, that is Superman Lives
[email protected]. So thank you so much for listening. Spending this time with me. Would love to hear your feedback. I'd love to have it here any questions you have, anything else that you might want to share with me. I would really love to hear. So please get in touch with me. And well, I'm going to try to have episodes now coming out. Now that we've launched with the first episode, I'm going to try to do, if not every week, it'll be every other week. So if not every Friday, every other Friday is my goal to launch a new episode on Fridays. So thanks again for listening. Stay safe out there. And stay super. [MUSIC PLAYING]
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