Sunday Special: The 10 Best Horror Movie Franchises

I'm Gilbert Cruz, and this is the Sunday special. I could not be more excited about today's episode, producers, cue the spooky music. I love Halloween, I love the spooky vibes, I love candy, I specifically love like mini heat bars, but maybe more than all of that, I am obsessed with scary movies, and that is what we are talking about today. Here with me is Eric Pepenberg, he is the horror movie columnist at the Times, Hi, Eric. Hello, Gilbert. And our first returning guest, what an honor, Jason Zineman, a critic at large and the author of the book, Shock Value, how a few eccentric outsiders give us nightmares, conquered Hollywood and invented modern horror. Why is this subtitle so long? It's way too long, I was young, but I just sold the French rights, it's coming out in France. Literally today, I signed the rights. Zutelo! Welcome, Jason. Good to be here. Okay, I brought the two of you on here for a very particular reason. Today we are going to come up with the definitive list of the greatest horror franchises in cinema history, according to us three. We're going to make this list. We're all going to agree, we're going to get along, and then we'll all hug at the end. Maybe. Maybe. We'll say. Okay. I've got to keep some suspense, Gilbert. You're right, you're right. Okay. Before we jump into this task and it is a hearty task, I want to know how you all are feeling about the currency to horror movies, like how are we feeling about where the genre is right now in this year, 2025? Eric. I'm feeling good about it. I think we are in a sort of prolonged golden age of horror right now. The period that's sort of started with get out, I think, is continuing, and when I think about just this year alone, weapons is just one of the best horror movies I've seen in quite some time. We're seeing a lot of new faces, new ways of seeing horror. Jason, do you think so? It's a little more optimistic than I would say. I think with the end of the golden age, I think maybe the old age, but I have to say if I was like sum up the era right now in a word, it would be respectable, which is in both senses of the word. We're in an era of prestige, Oscar, bait, horror, you know, centers, weapons, Frankenstein, all are going to be in the conversation. This is not in the disreputable era, right? Yeah. But if you judge a horror era by its mediocrity, it's not too bad either. I mean, I liked dangerous animals, which is like another shark movie. I just watched this movie drop, which again, it's not like last the test of time. It's a set all in one bad date, but it kind of works as a thriller. So I think it's been a better year than the last couple I would say. Yeah. It is interesting because both of you talked about these sort of big studio horror movies, centers, weapons, the latest in the final destination franchise, which we will talk about bloodlines. And then the latest country movie, which is one of the most successful horror franchises of all time. Those are all out. But at the same time, it feels like there is a still a thriving sort of indie horror scene, you know, this year you had bring her back, you had a movie together, which is a day Franco Alice and Bri movie that was sold, I think it was one of the first movie sold at this year's Sundance film festival for a lot of money. So it feels like the studios are putting out pretty good horror. Indies are putting out pretty good horror. The days of Blum House being the maker of cheap horror movies alone has sort of faded a little bit because horror is a reliable box office draw because that whether you're a big studio or a small studio, you know that there is this very rabid fan base. That everyone has sort of gotten into the game. I think it was interesting podcast I heard about the horror genre now. This year was Jason Blum went on Matt Bellany's podcast The Town to talk about why the sequel to Megan, Megan too, flaunt. Yeah. And this is Jason Blum, who is sort of the man behind Blum House, which is produced and distributed a bunch of horror movies this century. Yeah. Right. Exactly. Paranoma, activity and city is a bunch of other stuff. And he said, the days when cheap horror was the way to go are gone. And for Jason Blum to say that is really something that he said that now with all the competition, you need an event. And so you actually need to have an expensive horror. You need to really make a difference. I know a lot of people who disagree with that and that caused a lot of waves, but the fact that he said it suggested there was some anxiety among the horror establishment about, okay, where's the next player, which paranormal activity, etc. Yeah. I would say sort of on the flip side of the big pictures, I would say one of the nice things about doing this column is that I get to discover under the radar indie movies. I'm thinking of a movie like Bleeding, which came out early this year as his vampire story about it. It's told through the eyes of addiction. Good boy. This new movie about his dog who goes to a haunted house, these small movies. Look, every month I have, I would say, from 15 to 20 brand new movies that are streaming to choose from. And that doesn't include the bigger movies, but to be able to just see how many horror movie directors are just doing this small little movie that to me in some ways is far more effective and scary than a movie like together, which I didn't really like. That to me is what's exciting that you have young faces who are using some of the horror conventions, but telling them in new, very disturbing ways. So I think we need to move to the meat of this conversation. So here's what we're going to do. We have a list here of a couple dozen or so horror franchises that the group of us came up with. And listers, I just want to say here right at the front, if your favorite franchise isn't down here, I don't know what to say, the show can only be so long. These franchises are arranged chronologically. And the goal here is to eventually get to a list of what we consider to be the 10 best horror franchises of all time. So I think we should start by going through this big list. We'll give a quick yes or no to each of these franchises. Some I think you're going to move on very quickly because they feel obvious or iconic. And then some we're probably going to chat about a little bit before we make a decision. And for the sake of this discussion, I'm defining a franchise as a series of related films. There's one film that results in multiple sequels that have recurring villains or recurring heroes or recurring locations. Does that sound right to two of you? I think that's terrible definition. Okay. No. No. I think that. All right, so this podcast is going to be three hours long. Well, I guess my let's start to begin. I think it's a good I think it's a good start. When I you asked like when we was doing this, when does the horror movie franchise begin? And to me, among the universal monster movies that in the start in 1931, which you know, Frankenstein Dracula, Jekyll and Hyde. The first one to have a major follow up is Bride of Frankenstein. Mm-hm. You'll stay. We belong dead. As soon as you have Bride of Frankenstein, to me, that's the first one. Yeah. And I'm not sure that qualifies. I think it does. I do think it qualifies. I think if you look back at all the universal monster movies, it definitely has a feel of a franchise. You have Bride of Frankenstein, as you mentioned, son of Frankenstein. You have Frankenstein meeting the Wolfman eventually. You have this world before we ever thought about interconnected universes in which, you know, there's a house style. Characters are interacting with one another. You have essentially direct sequels to some of these movies. It feels like this is the beginning. But what ties it all together to me is the monster and the character in a way that I would like to include, like, young Frankenstein in the way I like to include, I like to include Sean of the Dead in the Dead series. I don't want to go by the rules of Hollywood producer. Yeah, but you understand that we need to have rules here, right? I'm horrors about breaking rules, Gilbert, and that's what I'm here for. No, I'll go along with that. That would definitely be true. Okay. Eric, we know who the chaos agent is. Can we agree universal franchise should proceed? I think it should proceed. I hear you, Jason. I also think you make some really good points. But the answer is yes. For our purposes here, let's continue on that one. Okay. We're going to move to the early 1960s, 1960s, in fact, when one of the first slasher movies, the first slasher movie, if we consider psycho Alfred Hitchcock's All-Time Plastic to be a slasher movie, we all go a little mad sometimes. Come out in 1960. No one thought it would be a franchise, but starting in the early 80s, you had psycho 2, psycho 3, and then psycho 4 at the beginning, which was a prequel TV movie. This is very weird. We're going to encounter some of these. It's a franchise where the first movie is one of the greatest movies. movies of all time. As a franchise, as something that is like all held together, I don't know that I would put out on the list, but I'm looking at Jason and I know. - Well, no, among horror nerds, Psycho 2 has developed a reevaluate. Famous, Quentin Tarantino prefers it to Psycho, and he's not the only one. I watched it again. It's definitely not there in the first one, but it's a very good movie. It really digs into the things that the original does not, and I would also argue, Gus Van Sands equally disliked, shot by shot remake. I admire the ambition of that. I'm not saying it's my top 10, but I think that Psycho 2 plus the Gus Van Sands, three and four are terrible, make it a worthy franchise, along with obviously one of the most important horror movies ever. - We're gonna put this one on the bubble. Does that feel right? - That feels fine with me. - Yeah, I'm good with that. - The next one, the night of the Living Dead series. - Have concluded that in all cases, the killers are eating the flesh of the people they murdered, repeating this later. - George Romero's extremely low budget movie that kicked off an entire subgenre within horror, the zombie movie. This feels important and iconic enough that we can automatically move this on to the list of films that we're gonna discuss later. - Right. - Next, The Exorcist, 1973. - You're down and busy. - You killed your mother. - You're a servant. - You left her all over again. - I love, love, love, love, love the exorcist. First time I saw it was one of the scariest experiences I've ever had. I've been chasing that experience ever since for the rest of my life. - Are you religious, Gilbert? - I grew up Catholic. - There you go. - That makes a difference. - I got it. - It does make a difference. - Yeah, yeah. - Yeah, yeah. - Yeah. - I think it's worth putting on this list. I think I don't love the films after the original so much. I know Jason, I think you picked a jump scare from The Exorcist Films as one of your favorite jump scares recently. - The Exorcist Three has one of the best jump scares ever. - Which look, watching those few minutes of that scene, I think, are truly one of the scariest things I've ever seen. So I appreciate that it has one of those scenes, but I don't love them, but is it in our, in this discussion, thumbs up. - I'm gonna give it thumbs up for one reason. One of the things I like about a franchise is when there's terrible movies in it. - I don't like that. - This is good. - Exorcist Two, all I can say is James L. Jones wears a B suit in Exorcist Two. - It is a locust suit. - Oh, I'll lose it. Okay, I'll go, I'll go. - Actually, in Exorcist Two, the Heretic, he wears a locust suit. - Okay, that alone, right? That image alone. I think should qualify it to be under consideration. I was like, a memorable, it's a memorable movie. Say, Eric's absolutely right. The third one has this one scene that's more memorable than most horror movies. I don't think it's gonna end up being one top ten, but I would say we should consider it. - All right, I'm just gonna say the next one, which is the Texas Chainsaw Massacre, Toby Hooper's film from 1974. This should continue. So we're gonna keep this one going. - Jaws. - I have a confession. I have never seen Jaws and I will never see Jaws. - What the hell, sorry. - What do you do? - Dozers, mouths are gay, please. - Look, I have confessed this before. So this is not breaking news, but I have a terrible horror. I have a severe shark phobia. And I remember sitting in Dairy Queen in Cleveland, Ohio, looking at the poster of the giant Jaws with that tiny little lady up at the top. - Yeah, iconic poster. - Iconic poster, it has scarred me for life. I don't go swimming. I don't go in swimming pools because there might be a Jaws underneath me late. - Why would they be in prison? - Why would a shark be a swimming pool? - Toilets, they could be anywhere. I'm telling you, it's a severe euphobia. Don't trigger me. - I'm gonna make an executive decision here. The first movie, I would say one of the great horror movies. And then you have three terrible sequels. This doesn't feel like a horror franchise to me. It feels like a shark franchise. The Omen, 1976. - Look at me, Damien. It's all for you. You love this the first Omen. - I thought the prequel that came out recently, the first Omen directed by Arcasha Stevenson, was fantastic. - Fantastic, I agree. - The original Omen is a good horror movie and then you had a bunch of not good stuff. So I actually don't know. It's one of the more famous franchises from the '70s. I actually don't know if I would sort of push it ahead. - Look, I've laid out a few things I think are important. One that I think we all agree is sort of cultural footprint. - Yeah. - And I'm not sure the Omen has that. - Yeah, it's like the avatar of horror movies. (laughing) It's out no cultural footprint. 1977's The Hills Have Eyes. This is the first of several West Craven franchises on this list. - You bet, that you say. - I got stronger opinions on this. - Okay. - It should be on the list. - What? - Okay, there's gonna be some West Craven franchises that other people are gonna want to put on them. I'm not. - I'm not happy with where this is going already. - I know, I know. The hill, here's my case. The original and the reboot are both great. The reboot, the Alexandra Aja. - There's a movie about a plan of cannibals that live in the desert. - And you know, it's sort of building on some Texas chainsaw elements. But I think it's a great franchise because it has this, you know, a great movie. It has a crummy sequel. Then the fact that it has a successful reboot, which I don't think we'll be able to say about that many. - Have you seen these? - I have, and I think it does not belong in this list like the moment. I don't consider it a franchise necessarily. I think I hear what you're saying, Jason. I don't think it belongs here for the similar. Same reasons as-- - Let's give it a yellow. I appreciate Jason's fashion. - Yeah, I do too. I appreciate that. - I appreciate that. - Yeah. - See, here's the thing about Jason. He's so smart and a very like, he's a classy thinker where I'm like, I like monster movies 'cause heads explode 'cause it's stupid. - That's kind of my sort of-- - Here's the thing about Eric. You might know this. He's from Cleveland. - And he plays the Cleveland, I'm a Rube card. - Yeah. - He's smarter than any of us. His horror column, I never miss must read. So don't follow for this. He's just trying to get his eyes out of here. - What the hell's that, I'm on the list. - It's on the bubble. 1978 Halloween. - You know, a Halloween. I guess everyone's entitled one good scare, huh? - In the running, for the most influential horror movie franchise, one of the most influential horror movie franchises, this is just an automatic. We will discuss this later. We should move this along. - Correct. - Okay. Fantastic. - I've been waiting for you. - This is the one with the tall man who's creepy looking and there's these flying balls that have spikes. - I'm gonna say stone cold classic, most underrated horror film of the '70s. - Sure, good god. - I said in that. - I said good. - The tall man is one of the great horror movie villains. It should be, if we live in a fair world, Gilbert. All right. If we live in a just world, the tall man would be talked about the way Michael Myers and Leather Face are. Phantasm 1, great, Phantasm 2 is great. Just surreal, trippy imagery. Maybe the best mirror scare of all time, which is no small thing. - These have straight to video sequels. Do we feel like those counts as part of a franchise? - That sweetens the pot. - Absolutely. - It's a more delicious, straight to video. I'll eat that up. Absolutely. - I put Phantasm as a franchise and we'll talk about that above Halloween. - I, I'm fighting words. - I literally am struck. Mutes. - I mean, I got a whole argument for it, but we can wait. - I'm usually, I'm fast with a comeback, but I don't know what to say about that. All right, let's put this on the bubble as well. The Amniveau Horror, 1979. - It's the passage. Come out. - Here's the thing about the Amniveau Horror. I counted, there are approximately 70 sequels. - Yeah. - Amniveau Horror. - Amniveau's the name of a town on Long Island, and you can't copyright the name of a town. - Correct. Amniveau has become the shorthand for just the scary and then plus this other thing. There's the Amniveau Karen. There's the Amniveau Christmas vacation. There's the Amniveau Gas Chamber. I mean, there's just like these ridiculous films made for $2 that you just slap on the word Amniveau and the town isn't happy about that, but that's okay. Some of the movies are great. Most of them are bad, but as a franchise, yes. - You guys are out of your mind. - I'll say no. I'll say no. I'll say no. I'll say no. No, because there's, I guess. - Oh, so now Eric's that smart. (laughing) - Eric's the room. - No, not a room, but he makes a good argument. He's almost persuaded me with the 70. That's crazy. I have no idea. That is a very strong case for it, but I'm gonna say haunted house. There's several haunted house franchises that are better than this one. - Okay. - And I think that's part of why it's cultural currency, which was huge once upon a time, has diminished. I would say it's not even the most successful horror franchise about a medieval horror. - All right, let's put it on the bubble. Let's put it, when there's a wholesale agreement, we'll move it forward. When there's disagree we'll put it on the bubble. Alien 1979 first movie, Stone Cold Classic. - Yes, we'll move it forward. We're in the 80s now, the heights of the slasher films. And we are going to come upon a couple of the all-time franchises, although I think Jason might disagree with one thing. - No, no, no, no. - Friday of the 13th. - Move it forward. - Okay. Hold your guys. I don't know about this one. I don't know. It doesn't feel like it's a franchise worth talking about. I'm kind of on the same page with you on that one. - Okay. - The evil did. - For sure. - Definitely qualifies. - Okay, 1984, a Nightmare Announce Street. - Please, God. - Yes. - Please, God. - I am a fan of the first one, which I think is tremendous. I know Eric, you are a fan of the second one. - I am a fan of the second one. - Freddie is for Venge. - Yeah, I got a gate up for a second. The second Nightmare Announce Street is considered the gay one. It is not subtext. It is text. And that is what I really enjoy about it. So I think for sure, Nightmare Announce Street, especially the second one, which I think is influential in a lot of ways that I'm not sure people fully appreciate. - And I would add that for me, what's, I think, a signed gay franchise, we can all point to ones we love. To me, it's the only franchise where the last one is my favorite. - This is New Nightmare. - New Nightmare, which I think all the credit that goes to scream should go to Nightmare Announce Street. New Nightmare was doing meta-winking horror before scream. And Freddie was a comic character before. It was basically turned into a comedy. And I sort of like the Ziggs and Zags of it. - The next one, it's a bit of an odd one, but I'm going to throw it in here. 1986's Man Hunter, which is a Michael Mann movie. That's really a crime movie. But it starts what will become a horror franchise five years later with the Silence of the Lams, which is one of the only horror movies to ever win Best Picture. The thing that connects all of these, of course, is Hannibal Lecter, played by Brian Cox in Man Hunter and then Anthony Hopkins for the rest of the movies. - Do you fly back to school now, little stoning? Fly, fly. - Is this a franchise that feels like it belongs in the all-time conversation? - I'm going to say no, but I would highly recommend people watch the Brian Cox scene where the detective comes in to visit him in the prison. - You have very time, Will. Your hands are rough. They don't look like cops hands anymore. And then watch the same, the Jody Foster coming in to see Hannibal Lecter in Silence of the Lams. - Do you know what you look like to me with your good bag and your cheap shoes? You look like a robe, a well scrubbed, hustling robe, with a little taste? - To see two genius actors doing the same thing in different ways. It's a, I don't think of it as horror. It's almost like too classy for horror. - Is that the classiness get in the way a bit? - Yeah, for me, part of the appeal of horror is to be disreputable. And if something is trying to be too classy, I just don't find that enjoyable. - Speaking of disreputable, I think the next movie would fall in that category. It's 1987's Hellraiser, of course, about an evil puzzle box that when you manipulate it calls a bunch of events. - Explorers in the further regions are experienced. Demons to some angels to others. - I think that's right. I'm not a big fan of the Hellraiser. I think those sort of fancy production design it all looks a little too party city for me. I don't know, it's just not my, it's not my kinks. So yeah, I think I'm gonna be awesome. - You don't like the leather? - No, you don't like the chains? - No, I don't like the leather and the chains and the drapey, like Moo Moo's stuff and the head gear and the makeup. No, it just looks like Cabaret plus party city plus busted. So no. - We're not gonna move Hellraiser love. 1988's Childs Play. - Hi, I'm Chuckie Wanna Play. - Yeah, this is so great. Again, I'm gonna get up here. I mean, where this franchise goes in terms of queer representation, in terms of non-binary, and I think they really set the tone for what queer horror can be today. And I think without the entire Childs Play franchise, I think queer horror would be sort of missing something. So for me, I think for those reasons alone, and because it's Chuckie's kids love dressing up as Chuckie. So for those reasons, I like to see a little kid with a plastic knife waddling down the street with that wig and the overalls. I mean, stuff of my nightmares. - Childs Play is in some ways, it feels such a franchise. It is, 'cause to me, a franchise is also not just the movies. It's the dolls, it's the posters, it's the appearances. You know, I don't even know all the things that Chuckie is has his hand in, but he feels bigger than what's on the screen. We're going into the '90s now. Sorry to leave the '80s, it's just the best decade. Candyman. - Pea, my victim. - I think the original Candyman is really fantastic, but I'm not sure if the subsequent films really stand up to the original so much. And I just don't see it as something canonical that we would want to put as part of the, that we'd want to include in part of this list. Okay, we'll move on. Scream. There are certain rules that one must abide by in order to successfully survive a horror movie. For instance, this modern slasher franchise is the one that most reminds people of the tropes of a horror movie. You watch horror movies in part because particularly with franchises, you know, they're predictable. And this franchise, whereas all of that on its sleeve, and there's something that is entertaining and enjoyable about that. The characters that have lasted across six movies now, I think people have great affection for, they have Campbell and Courtney Cox. - I don't just like the screen. - And the Arcette, who's, first day, but I cannot recall. - No, David Arcette, the, no, I think actually, and if you were to, if the measure was the best movies, Scream would be, I think that the quality control is not bad for Scream. I just think it's a bit basic. I think it's not, I don't, I, take it that, personally. (laughing) - The, I think to a certain kind of horror person, Scream gets on our nerves because there's this idea that horror never had humor. And it's probably, let's listen to this conversation. So many of these movies are hilarious. If it's calling card, is it added this humor? And it's not that funny, you know, then it's, then what is it? - Eric. - I don't find them funny. I find the wink-wink stuff too much. Ghost-faced again, looks like something you'd buy at, like Walgreens. I just don't buy it at Walgreens. - That's true. So I am not going to advocate for that. - Wow, okay, I predict this will be controversial with some of our listeners, but we set a set of rules and we are gonna abide by them. I'm surprised Scream is not moving forward. What about the next one, final destination, which debuted in 2000? What if it was our time, whatever we're not meant to get off that plane? - In the gutter for a while, and then this year's movie, Bloodlines, really sort of brought it back. - And I think that's why I would save it for me. Final destination, Bloodlines. It was really one of the funniest horror movies I've seen in a while. That first scene, a top, that building, and just where, to the very end, where there's this train that comes out of nowhere. I mean, it's so funny and so accomplished in the way that it marries horror and comedy. So if I think four Bloodlines alone, I would say absolutely. - These are the movies in which I regularly find myself, even while watching them alone, screaming out loud at something ridiculous that just happened, in like a wonderful way. So move it ahead. Next one, oh god, these saw. - I want to play a game, here's what happens. - I mean, it's the most franchisey of franchises, at least unless you count some of those in the 80s. So I would say you have to have saw on those. - Yeah, and in some way, it feels like a sister or a cousin to Final Destination. So I would say yeah. - Okay, Paranormal Activity 2007. - I feel it breathing on me. - I feel good about Paranormal Activity. I think for me, that's top 10 material, I think. - I agree, especially if we didn't put Blair Witch on here, we got to have one of those two. - Insidious, the next series that James Wonsor dealt with. - I can still hear that voice. (tires screeching) - Just because we can't have both insidious and the conjuring, I would say, I would err on the side of the conjuring. - You got the very wise, it's very wise of you. - Oh, thank you. And I really want Patrick Wilson to come back to Broadway. I'm sorry. - Yes. - I saw him in Oklahoma and he needs to come back and sing for us. - So, you guys are the perfect, perfect pair to talk about both of those things. The VHS series. (tires screeching) - Emily. - I like this as a franchise. I'm a big fan of the anthology film, Twilight Zone Outer Limits, that whole world. And so I think to include an anthology franchise in here, I think would be cool. - 2013's The Conjuring. - I don't know what she did. - She possessed the mother to kill the child. She misses Kellyn every night. That's what the Bruce Marks are. She's feeding off of her. - I'm just for the sake of time, I'm gonna say this one has to be on there. - Yeah, okay. The third series that James Wan has worked on, 2013's The Purge. It's on any and all crime, including murder, will be legal for 12 Continuos. I'm just going to say no. Okay. I'm going to say no. Great. A quiet place. The last one boarded me. I would say no. I'm going to say not yet. Guys, I love how we're getting really, really vicious here right at the end. In 2018's Terrifier. One of the most out of nowhere surprising horror success stories in the past many years. These are extremely low budget movies, extremely violent and gory and Terrifier 2 and Terrifier 3 have made a ton of money at the American box office. I love the idea of Jamie Leone, the director of these films, being on this list because I do think Arthur Clown has become a villain and I think he's the newest villain that I think you could put somewhere in the lineage of Freddie and Jason. I don't think it for our purposes, I wouldn't put it on the list, but I cannot wait for more Terrifier films to come out. I have a strong stomach, but for these movies, I get a little queasy when I watch these. I agree with everything, Eric's run. All right, so Jason, Eric, we just went through so many franchises, but somehow we've narrowed it down to 15 that we've agreed we're going to move forward to the debate that we're about to have about what the 10 greatest horror movie franchises of all time are and I'm going to read those 15 very quickly. The Universal Monsters franchise, the Knight of the Living Dead series, the Exorcist, Texas Chainsaw Massacre, Halloween, Alien, Friday the 13th, the Evil Dead series, Nightware on Elm Street, Childs Play, Final Destination, Saw, Paranormal Activity, VHS, and The Conjuring Films. This is a slightly perverse list, but Gather Your Thoughts, we are going to take a break and when we come back, the three of us are going to pick our definitive list that no one will argue with of Top 10 horror movie franchises. Jason and Eric, we've just gone through every single important horror movie franchise, at least according to me and the two of you and the producers of the show, and we've narrowed it down to a slim list of 15, and we're going to make some cuts so that at the end of this we have a nice, clean, perfect, respectable list of the 10 best horror movie franchises ever parenthesis according to us. How are we going to pair this down? We are going to go around the room and each of us is going to stump for one franchise that they believe absolutely needs to be on here, and you're also going to have your vote for what you think should be removed. You should make a convincing arguments. Jason will start with you. So one I think needs to be on is Friday the 13th. The counselors weren't paying any attention. They were making love while that young boy dropped. His name was Jason. Well, I think franchises, I think Friday the 13th, and as all the qualities, it has the classic villain who happens to share my name, so I'm a little biased. Also, I like franchises that are silly and go to a lot of crazy places. Jason went to space, Jason went to hell, Jason did met Freddy. He went to Manhattan. You went to Manhattan. I'm in the most places. I think you can't have a list of franchises being taken seriously and not have Friday the 13th. So I would vote for that one. Okay. And do you want to say now which one you think should go? Yeah, I'll say, I'll say the exorcist, sorry, Gilbert. It's a great movie. It's not a great franchise. You know what? I'm a peacemaker. Let's get rid of the exorcist. All right. We can do this. We can do this. We can do this. Eric. Yes. I would say we need to keep child's play. I think you have a villain that is hilarious and also creepy. I think there's a through line through the films. I think it does touch on some queer aspects which I personally like. And so I think for those reasons, I think it needs to stay. And if you know what's good for you, you are going to love honor and obey. I wouldn't marry you if you had the body of Chi-I-Chou. Hey, raggedy-in. You looked in the mirror lately. Now's not the time to get picky. I vouched for this or I advocated for this, but I would actually take off the VHS. Films. I love an anthology series, but I think maybe that is one that could go. Also we have at least one other found footage franchise here, so I would take VHS off. Jason. I agree. Okay. Let's take it off. So much agreement here. I am going to advocate for a Nightmare on Elm Street. What's wrong, Joe? Feeling calm, time? The first movie, one of my all-time favorite horror movies, I think, of the major slasers. As we think about them, Jason Voorhees from the Friday of 13th movies, Michael Myers from the Halloween movies, maybe even leather face from the Texas Chainsaw Masker movies. Freddy Krueger is the only one with personality. He is the only one that has a little, a little verb, a little pop. And that's important. I think. If you are going to be a character that holds a franchise over multiple movies, you are right, Jason. He gets silly. He becomes a comedic character. I think that comedy and horror coexist very easily. And I know you agree. Oh. I mean, I agree that comedy and horror are two sides the same coin. The structure of a suspense sequence that builds tension and leads to a scream is analogous to the structure of a joke which builds tension and then leads to a laugh. And I think you see that in Nightmare on Elm Street, which, you know, it melds them very well. And then I think you also just have the visual palette is for a big, you know, blockbuster franchise. It's quite like surreal. And I agree, I think your point about personality is a good one, that you didn't see that before. I also think there's something about these movies. You use the right words to real, particularly in the first movie, the fact that you are operating with dream logic for much of these movies just gives you a different flavor than all of these other ones, which ostensibly other than the supernatural ones exist in the real world. And you just have a bunch of people getting murdered in, you know, very ornate ways. No, it means you can do things visually. You can't otherwise. I mean, I think you see like the arms to the walls, a lot of the vocabular, cinematic vocabular horror comes from Nightmare, which comes from Polanski, which, you know, has all the look. You can watch it with a sound out and it's great. So I think it's tremendously influential too. Okay. So that is the one that I absolutely think should stay on. And I would remove Saw. I recently rewatched the first one, which is fine. And I think the conceits of these films over 10 movies is just a bit more than I care to experience. I don't think they iterate on the original idea in particularly interesting ways. I think the final destination franchise does this better, although they're two very different things. I say takeout saw. I'm fine with that. Jason is rubbing his lips. It feels wrong. Yeah. It feels wrong. Well, because we're not here talking about a horror movies. We're here talking about horror movie franchises. And as you pointed out before every year, you could expect a saw movie like you could expect Halloween. Well, it's around the saw movie was as significant as the saw movie. So you're right. There is a consistency. A lot of this podcast I've been going on about how much I admire movies that zag, right? But if we're honest, the reason that most of these horror franchises, you know, have sequel after sequel is to give people more of the same. And the saw movies did that more effectively than anything past the 80s classic slasher food. You know what? Jason, you're right. Let's add saw back on my favorite favorite three words and we are going to take Alien off. Oh, I'm fine with that. I'm fine with that. You want to argue? Yes. Aliens. God. Also, I think Alien is more science fiction and if we're going to be sticklers about definitions to me, it's a little more of the Alien creature type movie. And so to me, yes, there are horror elements. Yes, there are crossovers over the two. But to me, that's the maybe top 10 science fiction franchise. Yeah, everyone says the original Alien is a haunted house story in space. Sure. But it's still in space. It's still in space. Okay. I'm going to go back to you, Eric, and you're going to suggest one franchise that absolutely needs to stay on and one that should fall off. I'm going to advocate for paranormal activity to stay on the list. Oh, okay. Scress myself. Chris. Did you hear that? Uh. Yeah. It's okay It is a found footage film. It is a the first one is really really good I also love that it came out of nowhere to become this really big hit and has spawned subsequent films and now a Stage show Which is that true? It's at the Chicago Shakespeare Theatre right now. It's coming to DC later on they have I haven't seen it So I don't know if it's good or not, but they have managed to transfer this found footage story Which I don't know how you do that on stage, but I'm very curious to see that The theater keeps coming up Jason. I don't know what's going on here, but like anything that has a show Yeah, attached to it. I sort of say you know what let's let's keep that on on the list I guess and these are and these are the films that popularized in my mind at least Someone getting dragged off by an off-screen presence whenever I think about that happening Yeah, these are the movies I think about yeah agreed I Guess I'm struggling with this because I love the Universal Monsters But I almost wonder if that's not quite a franchise. I used to stay up a watch this is age is him It I was just about to say I should stay up for the 11.30 PM late-night movie with my grandmother who loved The Universal Monsters channel 43 back when they showed movies where was this this was in Cleveland And I have such warm memories of being with my grandmother and watching these films would pains me to take that off But I'm not sure if it's a it's a franchise. I get the spirit of it. They're great movies, but is it a franchise for our purposes? I say no, okay. Let's strike it off Jason, we're coming back to you one four one against one four evil dead Groovy the first movie is a great horror movie the second movie you were talking about Horror and comedy there's no movie period that's captured a lie in a live action the looney tunes better than the evil dead Sequel there's a sequence people can look it up on YouTube of the main character Ash played by Bruce Campbell who is a brilliant actor in these movies where his hand gets Possessed and he fights with his hand and it's just a tremendous bit of physical comedy that's still wrapped up It's a possessed hand and there's and it still is a horror movie and then you know, it keeps going It shifted again until I kind of an evil adventure and then you've got The reboots the two which I think are more kind of gnarly horror films. I don't think there's a bad evil dead movie Also a musical also a musical also a musical and a TV show and a TV show is the last time I'd bite theater people Evil dead below evil dad is got is has to be on the list. Okay, and to take off the list God this is getting this is getting very hard. Oh No, it's not I would say all right Texas Chancellor mask her which is one of my favorite movies of all time But I have a theory that Texas Chainsaw and Halloween They're both the originals are so great and they're so distinct that they kind of haunt the rest of the franchise and Texas Chainsaw mask her all the rest of them pale in comparison I would say the only the most interesting thing about the Chainsaw massacre is It's the movie that's beloved by filmmakers that they've had the hardest time trying to capture what makes it great The first movie that I saw that got close is another franchise that I would have put on this list But we didn't get there which is Thai West trilogy X really is an homage to Texas Chainsaw and captures the the gnarly Gritty gross, you know backwoods element of it. So anyways That's those are that's X pearl and Maxine correct. Yeah, I would say like if you want to get to a slightly artier kind of Franchise that that would make it but I say take off Texas Chainsaw. Okay, that that it was unexpected But I respect your decision. Okay, so I think we're officially at 10 on the list now But I'm gonna use my pick any way to stump for the conjuring This just seems like for people of a certain generation maybe no one of that generation is in this room. These are the Their franchise. It is the sort of modern ghost demon franchise and It just feels like it would be it's it's sort of Undeniable it would be sick and perverse to leave them off, which would be fine You know the topic that we are discussing here appropriate. I know I mean too responsible the the first two movies the conjuring and conjuring to I think are Quite good the first one in particular But when we're talking about franchises. This is you have these characters. They're sort of moving out in and out of all of these movies You have four conjuring films all starring Patrick Wilson and Vera Farminga As just the cutest little spirit Exercising couple you have two films in the nun series. There are three Annabelle films There are some people that consider the curse of La Yadona to be Part of the series. It just becomes sort of this universe in and of itself It just it just feels like the modern definition of a franchise. I mean, we haven't hit the conjuring TV series yet I don't know anyone dressing up as Ed and Lorraine Warren for Halloween. Maybe I'll do that this year But this is the one that I would keep on for sure. Okay guys. We have our ten But obviously we cannot end the show without talking about our last two franchises and It is in saying that we have saved Halloween until the very end here But it's not the other one Halloween and not the night of the living depth series So the Halloween series. I think when most people think of horror movie franchise This is one of the ones that automatically comes to mind The first is again in a hard classic and then you go in some weird directions with some weird sequels Halloween I think is such a perfect movie, but I also would make the case for Halloween 3 season of the witch Which has nothing to do with the Michael Myers world at all. It's about basically these Jack-a-lantern But masks hoods that you put on and there's mind control and I think it is really one of the underrated films in the in the Halloween series At least by not non nerds Jason, I think you made the point that a franchise that can sort of go outside of its world and be something else shapeshift I think this is the perfect example of that and I think that that's why for me Halloween I think is maybe one of my favorite franchises. I'm so glad Eric brought up this movie because when you we began when I heard that you guys wanted me to come to Our franchise I Rewatch season of the witch because I think it's the key turning point in the whole history of franchise because You know John Carpenter didn't want to make a sequel They they twisted around he made this he made the sequel right which is basically Halloween too is this kind of very took up right We're Halloween one ended made kind of the same movie, right and he said I'll come back for Halloween three But only if we don't have Michael Myers this has never been done before and here's the key part and after People came to see this coach. He's Michael Myers and the only time you see Michael Myers in this movie is when one of the characters Turns the TV set on and they're playing the Halloween and everyone was like that's the movie I want to see I agree with everything Eric said I think season the witch is a tremendously underrated movie really interesting on many counts Some really a trippy imagery in it, but the lesson that the industry took from the failure of season of the witch is We're never going to let them do this again. We got to have the music We got to have the Michael Myers ask and we'll let you mess around a little bit at the edges But it kind of ruined the franchise. So I agree with all of Eric's premise But I come to the opposite conclusion which is because of the season on the season of the witch The rest of the Halloween franchise became less interesting to me where let's compare it to night living dead This is the rare movie where the the sequel is better than the or more ambitious certainly than than the original dawn of the dead Is a tremendous movie and I think you know the the movie is varied in quality But I think they really set a high bar in terms of ambition and created not just one character But a whole new character that was taken off you know in a million other directions So I would I would say if I had to choose The night of living dead franchise I would pick over over Halloween which seems which seems crazy But I the one other thing we're not picking. They're both on the list. Okay, so let's review the final list There's been a lot of lists. This is the final list. I'm gonna read it out and you can tell me how you feel about all these together night of the living dead Halloween Friday the 13th the evil dead a nightmare on Elm Street child's play final destination Saw Heronome activity and the conjuring these are our ten are these are ten. Yeah, good list. Yeah, good about it Yeah, do you think anyone's gonna get angry about this list? Oh, yeah, absolutely. I should hope so okay It's the producers are look like engine. Yeah All right, we have come up with a definitive look at the definition of the word definitive list of the top 10 horror movie franchises of all time Tweeted Jason cinnamon. Okay We're threads Listeners those of you who are not mad at the movies we left off you can find both our master list and our top 10 in the show notes so you can basically recreate this debate with your friends. We're going to take another break and when we return, as we do every week, we're going to play a little game. Welcome back. Welcome to our hollow scream spook hack boo scare. Oh man. Oh man. Oh man. The regular Elviro over here, we got the I've got Eric, Peepinburg and Jason Zinemann here. They both look slightly uncomfortable because we're about to play a game. I've got three rounds for you, gentlemen, please put your hands on your buzzers and let us begin. Round one, which we are calling a nightmare on film street. Let's see how much you know about the films on our list. What fictional Illinois town is the main setting of the Halloween franchise? Jason. Uh, Haddenfield. That is correct. Haddenfield. Next question. Chuckie, the murderous doll at the center of the child's play franchise, is a possessed version of what doll manufactured by the play pal's toy factory? Eric. Good guy, doll. Good guy, that is correct. The first paranormal activity movies, $194 million worldwide box office, made it the most profitable movie of all time, displacing what other found footage horror movie. Eric. Blair Witch Project? The Blair Witch Project. Let's guess. Quick on the draw. Wow. How many principal shooting locations from Friday the 13th Part 8? Jason takes Manhattan or actually in Manhattan? Jason. It's got to be at least one because he comes one one. One. That is correct. The Times Square sequence. Subway sequence. Yeah, right. Exactly. Okay. That was the end of round one. Round two is called the kills have eyes. You guys should be ashamed of yourself. I mean, you know, this is Jimmy Fallon's looking down his nose. It was a mistake to have a cavity person on this, on this episode. I'm going to give you three ways that characters meet their ends in a franchise and you tell me the name of the franchise. So again, we be three ways that people die. Tell me the name of the franchise. Stab through the throat with an arrow, head frozen with liquid nitrogen and then shattered, swung around in a sleeping bag and smashed into a tree. Jason. That is Friday the 13th. That is correct. All of those kills happen in the Friday the 13th franchise. Next, turn it into a cockroach and squished inside a roach motel, drowned in a water bed, sliced by an animatronic claw hand. Eric. Netman on Elm Street? Correct. Nightmare on Elm Street. This is close. Next, strangled with a yo-yo. Beat 'n to death with a yardstick choked on a doll arm. Jason. Child's play? Child's play. Absolutely right. The final question in this round is burned alive inside a tanning bed flattened by a huge pain of glass crushed by logs falling off the back of a truck on the highway. Eric. Final destination. Final destination. This is really close. You guys are neck and neck here. Spread our final round, it's called Child's play. Some of these horror franchises contain some iconic, extremely creepy lines of dialogue. And as we all know, there's nothing scarier than a creepy little kid. So we found a little kid to creepily read some iconic horror movie dialogue for us. Please listen to the quote, wait until the quote is over, and then tell me what movie it's from. I ate his liver with some fava beans and a nice candy. Jason. Sounds the lambs. The silence of the lambs, correct. Next. Quote. They're coming to get you Barbara. Jason. All right, you primitive screw heads, listen up, you see this, this is my boom stick. Really good line reading. Really? You guys, you're full. Stop. That is from Army of Darkness, the third evil bed. Boomstick was the, you should have told me. I was distracted by how good a performance that was. Okay. Next clue. A boy's best friend is his mother. Jason. Unless this is like a trick, I'm going to say psycho. Psycho. That is correct. That is a quote from Norman Bates. And our final clue in this category and in the game overall. It's alive. Jason. Frankenstein. Frankenstein. That is correct. Frankenstein. That's not the one about the killer yogurt. Is it? No, that's about the killer baby. All right, right, right. Okay. My mistake. Okay, our producers are telling us that we have a winner and that winner is Jason. Congratulations. You hold it up right at the end. I'm amazing. I'm amazing. Jason, I have something to give you. Okay. It's a prize. This is the ninth one of these that we have awarded. It is a cheap, tiny, plastic trophy with my face on it. We call it the guilty. Oh, my God. And it is now yours. I'm so honored. I'm flattered. I'm humbled. Thank you. Thank you, Gilbert. That is. Those are all the emotions that that cheap trophy are supposed to miss. It really feels like you get it from like a gumball machine. Yeah. Yeah. And then throw it away. Jason, Eric, thank you both for joining this fantastic conversation about great horror movie franchises. Great to be here. My pleasure. Yeah. It was a lot of fun. Thank you. Wait. Before we go, if you had to pick a number one, what would it be? I'm going to go with evil dead. Eric. I'm going to say child's play. For me, Nightmare at Elm Street, all the way, one, two Freddy's coming. This episode was produced by Alex Barron, who's also our quizmaster, with help from Kate LaPresti, Luke Vanderplug, and Tina Antillini. We had production assistance from Dahlia Hadad. It was edited by Wendy Door and engineered by Daniel Ramirez. Rosalie Barron read all those scary lines from horror movies in our game. Original music by Dan Powell, Maryin Luzano, Alicia Bae Etoupe, and Diane Long. Special thanks to Paula Schuman. Thanks for listening. See you next week.