Summer Walleyes w/ Randy Topper | JMO Fishing 430

Welcome back everybody to another episode of the JMO podcast. I'm your host Taylor Michaels and our guest this episode we've got Randy Topper on the JMO podcast for the first time. We're going to get to no Randy in this interview and we're also going to deep dive into a couple of big tournament wins for him over in Minnesota. The grand rapids walleye shootout the Grah-ha on Lake Polkega-Mun northern Minnesota. That's a tournament that we've talked about plenty of times before here on the podcast. It's a really tough tournament where he and tournament partner Brock Anderson won that one and it's not the first time that they won. So a great conversation there a great deep dive on Polkega-Mun and fast forward to even more recently to the Lund-Mania tournament on Otter-Tail Lake in Minnesota where he teamed up with Woody and great stick Nate Linniger. And they took home the W there once again not for the first time for those guys. We're going to get some fun tournament breakdowns from some great local Minnesota walleye tournaments. It's a really fishy dude and offers a lot of great fishing information in this. So let's get to it here Randy Topper on the JMO podcast. The efficiency of these tools combined on the ONX Fish Shop make it the number one way to find new lakes and get there with confidence. Now available in Minnesota, Wisconsin, Michigan, Ohio, Indiana, Illinois, Missouri, Iowa, South Dakota, Montana and North Dakota. Also, the ONX Fish Shop is now available on Android. Find out more information on the ONX Fish Shop. Head to the link in the description of this podcast. Save some money with promo code JMO on your next subscription. Devil's Lake is one of North Dakota's premier outdoor recreational destinations and to find out more about what the lake and the community of Devil's Lake has to offer head to devil's lake nd.com and get all that. We're talking about the lodging and restaurant options and just the lay of the land and everything going on in the community. There's all kinds of stuff. People somewhere long going on in and around the community of Devil's Lake that link is in the description. Summit fishing equipment brings technology and innovation together to improve fishing equipment design and usability. Their forward-facing sonar shuttle Transducer Pole combos are designed to be used year-round with just a few accessories you'll find on the website. You can mount the shuttle and Transducer Pole right in your boat, making the transition from ice season to open water incredibly simple and cost-effective. Check out everything they've got at summitfishingequipment.com. Use code Summit10 at checkout for 10% off all orders online. That link is in the description of this podcast. Alright, we're going here Randy. Randy Topper, first time on the JMO podcast, man. It's a little bit of a long time coming though. I feel like I know you already because I've heard so many stories but we got to get to know you here on the air. Where you're from, you know, where, what your fishing story is going back to, you know, who introduced you to fishing? Where did you fish? What kind of angler you are? I just want to know, you know, your whole fishing timeline going back as far as your memory will go and we can take as much time as we need on this. We got to get to know you. So go ahead with it, Randy. Yeah, absolutely. I'm glad we got to link up. I feel like it has been a long time coming. It's just been wild and, well, like I say, the way it's called a link up. I grew up in co-hacet, you know, northern Minnesota. And I guess if I had a body of water that I cut my teeth on and my favorite body of water is not much of a secret to a lot of people that I know as pakegama. That's kind of where, when I was guiding, I guided out there quite a bit and that's probably my early years, you know, I was out there constantly. I've been fishing out there. My parents live on the lake, so I was fishing that water when I was in diapers and just ramped it up every since then. Is this is high level fishing like multi-generational in your family? No, it's, you know, my dad fish. I guess probably kind of got me into it. He wasn't really a walleye guy, more of a pike guy and we love spear and just kind of, that's what we ate. We love to do and not many other crazy walleye guys in my family. My nephew's coming up. He's getting the edge in the bog and hopefully my son's going to be in the same shoes. But I kind of took it on, you know, like I say, my dad would take me out a little bit and then I lived on the lake and he gave me another resource. You know, I started out with a boat and oars and would go bass fishing right off, you know, from the dock. You know, be up at light, go bass fishing and then from there, buddy of mine that rode my bust. We were kind of good buddies and and we, his dad was a crazy walleye fisherman. Fish some small derbies and was kind of a, you know, real good local stick and he would bring me out. Him and I would go him and his son and that's where I got the walleye, Bob. And by the time I was, you know, 14, he had really educated me, especially on crawlers. I mean, he was a crawler guy and crawler harnesses back then and I took that and my dad got me a six and a half horse, seven and a half horse Chrysler, you know, didn't have a top on it. Didn't have a kill switch if you try to touch it and zap you every time. So he got me that and I did a little flat bottom John boat. And you know, once I kind of got the basics of going with my neighbor, I went out to the keg and I was like, I think I could do this out there and I was probably 13, 14 when I first started finding walleye on the kegoma and, you know, then I, then it started to really go from there. So that's kind of where I got the bug and kind of where I else, whatever it all started. Dude, give me a hot tip on rigging crawlers, man. Like I, I mean, I know forward so oners like a big thing nowadays, dude, but I, I love rigging a big mental. I love rigging bait just like anybody else. Give me a hot tip if I'm going to go out and rig crawlers and Minnesota. Well, if I'm rigging a crawler back in the day, you know, I was two ways. I'll give you two. The first way was when the bite was tough, I didn't think anything could ever beat a single number six hook and the biggest crawler you got with a little bit of air in it and a six seven foot snow. That's basically the way I started, you know, way my neighbor taught me. And it seemed like no matter what, when things were tough, that was always my go to, you know, pre-live the tournaments, you know, that we cash checks on. That was a big one. And I second to that would be one things ramped up as just running spinners for sure, like smiley blades and stuff like, I mean, it was regular Colorado's at first, but one smiley's came out that I can't. I can look in back. I mean, that tactic probably won us more money than life's hope yet. You know, it was just always deadly. How fast do you pull? Oh, that was the great thing about that smiley is you could run it down to point eight, you know, or run it up quick, you know, so you could really adjust, you know, before that and the Colorado's, if you slowed down too much, you were just dragging bottom, but that smiley really made it diverse where you could, you know, but if I hit one mile, you know, one hour was was a lot of times my target with that with that smiley. And then same with the old crawler harness that I would even creep that point six. And you could ramp that up without a blade on it, just a beat or whatever, but yeah, I definitely missed those days. I'm not going to lie. I just feel like it keeps you fishy too, you know, I, we ended up trolling on a lot. He was the first time I had trolled forever. And I was telling the guys, I was like, that was such an awesome, like refreshing deal, you know, I felt like I was really reading water again. You know, I didn't only had two fish in my well and I watched a mudline form and when that mudline formed, I snuck up there and filled my well, you know, and just kind of reading water and reading the land and everything. It was just a, it was just a cool feeling that haven't, you know, done for a little while. I mean, don't get me wrong. I love scope and with a passion, but, you know, yeah, it's still nice to circle back and do some of that old stuff. How does like tournament fishing sort of fit into your whole timeline? So circles right back around to that same neighbor. We fished together all the time, you know, and I told him, you know, I'd see him and he did pretty well. So I said, I'd love to fish a tournament sometime. Well, I think I'm pretty sure I was 15 and my buddy was 16 and he had a license, but neither one of us had a boat. I didn't have a driver's license yet. So he decided to go to Swan Lake and they always fished the Swan Lake Classic, which is just kind of east of us here. And I said, you know, and he said, you could use my boat. You can run it and Adam can drive over there and you guys can, can fish it. So this was my first time and I was, I was jazzed up. You know, I was old paper map. It wasn't even like a good paper map, like a Navionics and I found this big, big, big flat and I assumed it had cabbage on it. And we got out there and of course I couldn't drive a truck. So he backed me in and we went to that, that flat. First time we had ever been on the water in our lives and we turned the corner, went over there. Sure enough, there was cabbage there. We put the worm harnesses down and went to work. We ended up second place in that tournament. I went in 15 and 16. We were then barely had driver's license. So I mean, it was immediate after that. And I was hungry then I wanted to do everything I could. But it was probably, you know, after that, the, the Pakegoma Classic fired up and we would do that. That was kind of pre-gra-ha. Oh, right. Pakegoma Lake Grand Rapidshootout now. So then we started doing that a little bit and then Sean Colter and Harnessman kind of talked me in my own partner Brock, which I still fished Grawha with to go on over to Bemidji. And I would say the dominoes started to fall and after that. As soon as we, you know, we did well in those Grawha tournaments are really, really young. And then when we traveled over to Bemidji, kind of got our Keith kicked in the first year and kind of learned what this is all about, you know, a hundred-bowl field. And then we got crazy into it, studied the lake and then we showed up and got second the next year. And that, after that, it's been hungry every sense for everything. I can kind of get my hands on and whatever time and family and all the things will let me do. I feel like I've had almost all your travel buddies, you know, all the JT guys, like Joe and Chuck and Tyler, like when did you kind of link up with those guys? So I'm trying to find this timeline here. So we started fishing. Well I was fishing in a fish cast and then I fished with Swenson for a little while. We fished to MWC together because Brock and I always fished together. And then Brock got a job at the paper mill here and it basically just cut his time off, basically down to zero. He was low on the totem pole, couldn't get the right time off. So I ended up fishing a tournament with Buddy of mine. And then we said, well, hey, we should do aim. And then Dan knew Tyler and Nate and I should back up. So before all this, we ran Hang Los Outdoors, which was a guide service and kind of a media thing, just a fun thing that my buddies did. And Joe got a hold of us through that when kind of when JT first started. So I met Joe first, you know, and he wanted us to kind of try the rotto and everything. And of course it was immediately as soon as I put a JTX in my hand, it was over there. And then from there, me and Joe became good buddies and that kind of all fell there. And then I was trying to fish the cast with Joe, but he had a wedding. And then I was kind of lost. I didn't have anybody to fish with and Dan said he could fish it. And so we fished that and then we decided to do aim and Dylan and Joe, these I'd still told Dylan to jump in with Joe, I think is the way it worked. And we would do aim and then Dan knew Tyler and Nate. So then we that was our first season altogether. And then again, Dan had had started to ramp up in his job, I think, and wasn't going to do aim the next year. And that's when I linked up with Chuck. So I think it was, I think we were talking about it the other day. It's been eight years when we did when we were traveling with aim where it was Chuck and I, Joe and Dylan and Tyler and Nate. So up to present. Yeah, dude, you guys are a squad. I think it's cool. It was amazing. Yeah, I mean, the way we click and the way we break down water, I mean, I credit most of any success to those guys. There's some of the best fishermen that I've ever, their minds and the way things work and the way we took, you know, we're all kind of chaos. But when it comes down to figuring out details and, you know, draw the line, you know, it's when we're back, you know, it's meeting time and figure out a figure out on the map where things happen and immediate data exchange just so we can see the way things are rolling out and everybody likes to have a good time and that's great. And we've all just clicked. I mean, we've, from them eight years, I feel like I don't even, like, it's hard to imagine fishing before them guys, you know. So it's like pretty much a brotherhood, you know, those guys, we're all as tight as I could be with even old way old school friends. You know, it seems like we've been friends for 30 years, not eight. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, man, fishing will do that to you, man. Like when you're, you fish with people, yeah, there's definitely like a bond there too, especially tournament fish with people. That's, it's got to be a, that's got to be a cool bond, man. And it definitely looks like it. You guys are, you guys are definitely a wrecking crew. Now, let's maybe get a little bit of a quick and dirty update on your whole season because you fish like, I guess the way I see it. Like you're, you're a working man at home, but, but you fish like twice as many tournaments as a lot of like professional anglers. So I want to get a little bit of a quick and dirty update from you on the season. And then that'll kind of be like, get us up to, you know, like the graha. I think that's where we're going to kind of start sinking our teeth into some of this fishing conversation. But we should just get a little bit of a look back on your season so far. Yeah, yeah. I keep telling myself I'm maybe going to ramp down a bit just because things are so busy and by the end of the summer, by the end of every summer, I'm like, I don't know how long I can sustain this. I'm trying to, trying to juggle a business in 11 year old, the seven year old, you know, the business is very demanding. And so it's, I do, so graha, one mania. And then this year we decided to do all the, all the NWTs. And then usually casts in the fall. And then unknowingly, I'll usually sprinkle in a couple and MTTs before that it was all the aims, you know, the last eight years along with graha and lumbania. And again, the other ones have kind of been the solid ones that I've done pretty much the past years has usually been the whole alien program. And graha, lumbania, if we don't make the championship for Ian, we always usually do the leech lake classic, done that quite a few times. And then we usually end the fall with, with cast lake, MWC, which, which I have actually, I did, I haven't done that in the past couple of years because it's such a busy time for us. And I kind of had to bow out of that the last couple of years. But we'll see how this one unfolds. Maybe I'll jump back in. You won the graha this year, and it's not the first time I'm, I'm curious about like a deep time. I think every year I try to do an episode with somebody that does good in the graha because I'm just fascinated by it. I've never been on that body of water. But for whatever reason, the stories that I hear when I talk to people that fish it, like that tournament, there's obviously something about that tournament that makes it like a huge magnet for just all the sticks in the surrounding area. I mean, that just, that's a heck of a trophy to hoist. And I think Joe actually said last time I had him on, you know, I think he made a pretty solid comparison that like, you know, oh, West here we've got a lot of governor cup tournaments like North Dakota's governor cup, South Dakota, Montana, Washington, Wyoming. Like they've all got, oh, West here we've got all these governor cup tournaments and they're really like, they're like the event of the summer, you know, for the surrounding area and, and, you know, and it draws a lot of, you know, big anglers that like to come in and fish these bodies of water. This soda doesn't necessarily have a designated governor's cup, but it feels like the grája kind of is that it's like, it's the event of the year. It's like, I mean, it's just a special, special thing to try to fish for the win on that body of water and you've done it more than one time, man. So I just, yeah, that's kind of like why I geek out on a little bit or I guess that's kind of my little explanation. But give me up to speed on like that body of water, like maybe even, you know, help me out with a little history lesson and what kind of lake it is, you know, things that I need to know about it, you know, just in terms of, you know, forage base or just how it fishes, like, like I would love, you know, some of those details as you kind of maybe give me a little bit of the tournament recap. I'm just sort of curious about all that big picture and little picture kind of stuff. But yeah, man, tell me about Pukegema. How did it go this year? And yeah, what was, what was the winning formula? Pukegema's, I mean, obviously I've said it before, it's a really special lake to me because I grew up on it and have countless hours logged on studying that thing. And I mean, before life scope, I was under a hood with a camera for hours. I've snorkeled that lake, you know, trying to learn everything I can about everything. I mean, back in the day, I don't even know how many hours I have on that lake, cameraing and just trying to figure out why is there always walleye here? Why are there always walleye there? Why isn't there walleye here? And it's always been just a fascination of mine and cutting your teeth on Pukegema. I've always said, I think it makes you a better angler everywhere you go because she's not always nice. Yeah, that's right. That's right. That's right here. It's tough sometimes. Yeah, it's a love-hate relationship. You know, one day you can really get them and the next day they will not touch anything. But it's really neat because it's a, it's a smell, there's a smell forage. I mean, that seems to be down a hair right now, but you know, the next smell forage that I know of is probably superior, I think, maybe some stuff up north, but it's just kind of wild that it has them and it grows big fish and toolubbies. What I've seen over the years of watching the lake is the toolubbies and smell kind of, they kind of just trade niches. We are that big. I smell it die off. We had a massive tulipy boom like crazier than I've ever seen. And that's kind of kept them at bay, you know, 'cause what I found out after catching a lot of tulips is the tulips are eaten smell they're plumful when ever you catch. - Really? Interesting. - Yeah, so yeah, yeah, we, during COVID, I was kind of laid off from the job I was working at and I spent a bunch of time on the ice and just me, you could catch a hundred, 150, 200. However many tulips you wanted to catch in any basin of that lake. And I believed it was because when we had that smell die off, which nobody has ever told me the exact reason that it, I believe myself that it was just, you know, they go on cycles and all lakes, you know, you have a big die off and then they'd be on, but there was a bunch out there, you know, data that maybe showed, we had them big rains and warm water pushed down too quick and things like that. But I don't really know what happened, but when they died, the tulips went nuts and I think, I don't think either one hurts at any. And we have, so we have forage from, you know, a hundred feet of water all the way to the Rusties and the foot of water and everything in between is millions of perch, millions of sunnies. And yeah, they just, they have a smorgasbord at all times of the day. I feel like when you look at your draft, you're like, well, all they gotta do is open their mouth and they're full at any point in time. Cause I don't know if that's what makes it tough, but they are healthy and they're also typically pretty angry when you hook them. - What we do know just looking at the tournament weights is that the fish are big out there. Like you hear that, this is an inland Minnesota, northern Minnesota lake, but yet the weights of those fish and then when you look at pictures of it, it's like, man, it's like, there's just something going on there, but yeah, like anytime we start talking play, you bait, start talking siscos and stuff like that, it all starts to kind of make sense. Cause we talk about that, that's a Western reservoir thing, or great lakes, right? It's like all the big pelagic bait, but not to discount the fact that, you know, again, at the Grahats, like one year, it's a weed bite, one year it's a suspended bite. A lot of years, you gotta sample both if you're gonna, you know, get a top five. Like I think all that stuff is really fascinating about that body of water and why I'm just, I geek out on it. But tell me how this year went, man, tell me about, tell me about, you know, getting into pre-fishing stuff and what you were finding. - I was, yeah, I can tell you, you know, this past year thinking about Grah, cause it's such, it's always on my mind from the day it ends till we do it again. And I went through the year thinking, you know, I don't know, maybe, maybe it's time to become a spectator, do I really think it's possible to do it again? Because, you know, Brock and I have been fortunate enough, leading into this year we had one of three times. And it's like, okay, this field gets to be so ridiculous. Every time five people drop out, there's a waiting list and five new people get in there. They just seem to be, you know, they're not your everyday guys. These guys are absolutely amazing. So it's like, dude, yeah. From one to 101 are the best fishermen that I know anywhere in this area. Like you were saying, not only locals, all the way up to the highest end anglers in the country right now. So it's like, for sure. Can we really do it again? So, you know, I was diving into it and looking at that and I actually fished, I didn't fish a lot this year. I just don't have the time on Bekeg. My son and my dad and I went out on opener. First time that I had opened up Bekeg and one probably 20 years, typically a real tough bite out there. I was like, well, now that we got scope, let's go take a look and see what's there. And we had a blast. We got like eight giants. And so then I went out one more time. When I had a few minutes, Troy and I went out and caught a few more. And it looked good. It looked right. You know, there's hundreds of fish like always. And then just in, you know, Graha form, it really starts to ramp up and look awesome. And then as it gets closer, it starts to get more worrisome and more worrisome. And when I'm starting to look at the way the fish react and I was like, yeah, you know, all of our hopes every year is like, hey, maybe it'll be a year where they really ramp up and the weather's right and the moon phases right and all this stuff we always talk about. And I just kind of look at my buddies and say, I think we all know better than that. We know where this is going. We know exactly where this is going. You know, Wednesday is going to be like, oh, this is still really good, really good. And Thursday is like, wow, it wasn't as good. And then Friday the texts are going to be gone and everybody's going to be like, is anybody catching anything or a fish reacting or anything? Like, no, here we go. (laughing) - Yeah, yeah. So it's a one day or, I'm kind of curious about that too 'cause you're used to fishing one day or is end two days. Like, that's another thing that I'm, you know, I'm probably putting this all on you. But I'm sort of curious as you walk me through the tournament and how the bite was and, you know, whatever you're willing to share, how you were catching them, what you were seeing. You know, the decision making is kind of the thing that fascinates me a lot, especially on tournament day. Like what goes into making decisions 'cause it's always going to be like, it's never easy. You're not going to win a tournament like this and everything goes like so easy. Like, there's going to be decisions that have to be made, decisions that have a lot of weight on them. And, you know, it's going to have, those things are going to have to go right. But I'm just so curious about that. Like, you know, yeah, the day before, you know, how your pre-fish went, what you were thinking, like what your strategy was at takeoff, like if we were to start there and then just walk me through the whole day. But I really want to milk this out. I want to know kind of how you make decisions, what goes into that and just kind of how you try to execute day of, you know, which at that time, you know, you have no idea that you're on the winning deal probably. So it's, you know, yeah, I'm just trying to put that in perspective. But yeah, walk me through it, man. - Yeah, I mean, like I said, the bite was doing just like it always does and your spot on that, that lake has almost at all times, it has a bottom bite, it has a suspended bite, it has a bottom hedge bite, it has a, and it has a shallow bite. And they're all scary. And I believe that any one of those bites or mixture of them, different bites could win it. And guess, I guess my biggest thing with Graha, when I watch this stuff go down and I watch the bites slow down, I try to just, you know, think of areas that I've done well in before and well in and practice and don't let myself spin out too much. I mean, the first two times Brock and I wanted it was because of motor troubles because that's what happens, right? You know, a local person with 800 spots on the lake that's guided and all of a sudden you're like, well, maybe we should be by the bridge or maybe we should be on Sherry's arm or maybe we should be back in Taig and maybe we should be on the plant side. You know, you can spend your whole day running and what ends up happening in my opinion is the bite windows shrink so much that you just gotta, you gotta grind for the most part and make a couple key decisions if you do move. Hopefully it's the right time and the right place. But that was my strategy going into it this year is it's getting tougher and tougher every year because people are seeing these fish now. They're getting bugged a lot more. I kind of just figured, you know, let's find three spots that is holding a winning bag and to be honest, I always say that too is every day on Pakegamo or every spot on Pakegamo has a winning bag on it. It's just, are you gonna fish clean? Are you gonna be there when the bite window opens and are you gonna have what they wanna eat? And I truly believe there is a winning bag everywhere you go on Pakegamo. You know, like this year, we're putting all those factors in the few suspended fish we were getting, few of the deeper fish on the bottom edge and then the shallow fish. We started out in a pretty popular area with a lot of people so it's like, that was kind of our thoughts. This spot's gonna be busy, but let's not go there because it's gonna be busy, yeah, it's gonna be tough to maneuver and things like that but we don't wanna miss out on what could possibly happen there in the morning. And honestly, there is all kinds of unbelievable sticks in there, the best is the best. We're kind of all the way around us. And I honestly just think, you know, I had a line in there that I liked and I seen the right fish and there's some fish that throw you off on the lake too. I don't know, you know, suckers and dogfish and things like that. So they can burn up a lot of your time. And if you're in any of that stuff during a bite window, now you're casting that 40% stuff that's hard to really tell what it actually is. But that line that I decided the day before that we were gonna take, whether I thought it was gonna work out perfectly or not, it did and we had four of the right bites in the first hour and a half. - Oh my, yeah. - And these were fish that were very pressured fish, You know, they were really with the logical move. And I mean, I didn't know if I was going to get him to bite, but they were just barely moving. So I caught what was it? A 24. And then I think it was a 26 and they were both just slow. You had to make them bite a lot of times a couple of times. The 28, the third fish was a 28. And I bet I had to get that fish bit me six times, but it wasn't like a bite. Like everything nowadays that you watch him bite on the skull and you're like, okay, is he going to eat the crawler? He's got it, but I'm going to let him maneuver it in his mouth and make sure he clamps down on it and we're going to get this fish to the boat. This was happening so fast that I was feeling the bait go into the fish's mouth, but I'd also feel it go out of the fish's mouth as fast as it's fast. I couldn't, I didn't have the reaction time to set the hook and I didn't want to because I'm so used to let him chop, let him chop and we'll let him get it situated, but they weren't, they weren't situating it. They were just sucking it in and blowing it out as fast as they could take it in. So what was it? That was crawler. Okay. So I was talking, brought through it because Brock was behind me with the portable unit and just kind of bouncing out in the boat and I was like, through this fish is big and it bit me. That's the fourth or the fifth time that bit me and I told him, if that thing one more time and I just set the hook because it had mid conversation, I felt him suck it in that time and I drilled him and actually got that fish. It was wild. And that was out of the seven fish we caught, I think three, possibly four of them never got him on the first bite. Keep, I mean, those are stressful. I just hear that and that's just that's just like that moment in time that I just like to, like if you're in that moment, it's chaos, mental, like it's mental warfare. It was, it's, you know, home body of water, all the stress of us having done well in the past, you know, all that stuff compounding and watching that, you know, and feeling that bait go in and out. It's like these fish don't want to eat it once, you know, I'm just like, ah, you know, every time it was wind out of the sail so they have to deal with that multiple times, it was just, but I caught on to it and it worked, you know, that seven six. It was the first time I actually, I used the seven six and Escanaba and paired it with braid and it's so soft that, that nothing, nothing will feel it. But when you couple it with braid, you can feel every tooth on its way in and then back out, you know, it's just like, man, am I grab, glad I grabbed this stick because it's everything I need right now and it, it, it was pretty amazing. And again, to not get frustrated in between those, you know, it's so easy to, oh, I bit in and then you just, you're kind of hands down, head hanging, you know, how many bites I'm growling, how do you actually get? And yeah, it worked out so, so that was our, that was our first four fish. We had four fish, I think, by nine, nine o'clock, then we scooted out of there, went to a little bit, more shallow weed line stuff slipped out and then, then had our five with another 24 inch or that again, I couldn't get the timing right. And when he sucked it in, I set the hook and I felt it actually scraped a tooth and I kind of, you know, got frustrated and I watched the fish lunge again, like vape trail lunge. I was like, well, maybe it's not even a wall. I got back in the zone again and I actually acted like I set the hook and jumped that crawler and then he just came on court and hammered it. You know, like a pike. So I was like, and every fish wanted to bite so different, that fish, I think, may possibly have ate a gymshoe at that point in time, you know, but it was like, all the fish are so moody out there. I've never fished a lake where, you know, usually you're on something like it's okay. This is going to work for the majority of our fish. It's like every fish has such a crazy personality on pakegamon, you know, do they want that wild stuff or stuff that down their throat or, you know, hang it right in front of them and you just never know even their demeanor on the scope. It's like a lot of times you can catch onto that stuff, but, you know, they're not posturing up as you send it down where they're going to lunge that stuff or anything like that. I don't know. It's just everybody who's fished really dove into pakegamon and dissected it probably knows exactly what I'm talking about. Like I'm sort of curious. It might be a good time to kind of dive deeper into the setups. Like if you're going to be prepared to cycle through, you know, sort of a roster, if you will, of, you know, of presentations, what does it look like on your deck? And I'm even curious about the details of like your, you know, your rod, your line, your leader material, you know, jig size, like anything you're willing to share, like on just what's going to be on your deck? Yeah. I've actually, I've not been a braid guy for a long time. And then that comes from pakegamon. Like there was a lot of times guiding I could have braid on, you know, and a lot of this, a lot of my research came from back when I was guiding because I was so into guiding. Like I loved it. Every guide trip that I did was like a tournament and I, you know, I was just as disappointed if we didn't do well as I was a tournament and I was just as excited if we did well at night, you know, coming home. So I would dive into things so heavily during guide trips, you know, I would do a lot of tests, you know, have a bunch of rods set up and, you know, Johnny gets one and Mike gets one and Susie gets one. They don't know that they have one has braid on and one has 10 pound test on one has eight, but I'm taking mental notes of that stuff the whole time and, and I've seen it a lot of times where, you know, pulling shelves back in the day, they just didn't bite it. I don't know why I can't explain to you why they wouldn't bite it and not a jig. They would not bite anything braid. It was just, it was a monolake and that was true to me in a lot of lakes. I just kind of recently went back to braid. So that's, I can tell you this year on Grahaw was the first time ever where my whole deck was filled with braid and then, and then from there kind of a smorgasbord because we did throw a lot, you know, I had a jig that I just had with a leech and I would throw that at him and a crawler and a creek job and even fat head, you know, all that stuff. It literally, and I think we're all kind of doing the same thing because some of these fish nowadays are just driving us wild because you can see it happening like you said with the technology. Now, how is that thing not eating? I've thrown every single thing I have and then all of a sudden you throw the fat head and then eat it and you're like, okay, I got him now. The next 30 don't even react to it and you're like, okay, batch of salt. So yeah, I would say on Grahaw I had leech and a bobber ready, ready to go. I had jig crawl, jig and a mental, I guess we call it a dork rig just a sinker and a plain number six hook, you know, to just pin down a minute or bottom with just a short snout. And I think that was about my while jig rap, you know, following up with a jig rap at the very end, you know, we usually, most of the time we never throw a jig rap first and last with a jig rap, it's the jig rap program, you know, we don't really want to blow that stuff up until we've got the whatever we know we can get them to the boat with. So that was, that's kind of our one, two, three, four punch or whatever it was is just the same old same. I don't know if there's anything special. The only thing that was really crazy for me this year is just going to all braid and I just think that that decision that that's what I was doing in Eskanova and it worked out and it worked out and practiced on the keg. So I was like, why not braid is so awesome to use when you can. You feel every single tiny thing. It doesn't spin up as bad as mono and I'm like, all right, I'm going for it. And it worked out and I think if I could say that was the biggest thing for me to build the field, those bites and know when to set the hook, that was the game changer for me in this tournament. Do you have any like major preferences when it comes to like rod, rod length action or like leader length or or, you know, even like leader knots, any of those like, you know, any of those little like hard and fast preferences that some people have or maybe not at all. Yeah. Well, this, this rod for sure was, you know, I got a hold of Joe right away when I, I hadn't messed around with that, that JT the 7, 6 light. I had messed around with it a whole bunch. I just hadn't had the time. And when I did that at Eskanova, it was, it was the rod I wanted. So I called him and I needed three more of those when he came up and that's, that rod was, that's all I've been using since, since we're out on Green Bay and that's probably what I'm going to be using the rest of the year. I don't think I'll, I don't think I'll be. put it down. I just feel like I've dialed something in with the dance with it. You know, when these fish want to dance around and the sponginess of it, you know, even on one mania, there's something about the sponginess of that rod, the way it moves a bit and maybe I'm overthinking it, but it seems like it gets bit. And, and then also once it is bit and you really put a hook in it, it don't come off because there's just so much curve to that rod that it just takes all them big head shakes out and I'm so comfortable with putting it in the net once that fish is hooked. So all that coupled together, honestly, it always was my, it was the seven one medium light that I loved, but this rod is taking the cake and then I use, I usually always use suffix 832. I have for years, but I've been playing around with the revolve stuff and I like that a lot. Basically, like frog here, that stuff is so thin and strong. I think that'll probably be that'll probably be my my next, I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm see my reels all spin into that. No one went to hit them. That could be huge. I could easily see that being a major factor with a braid versus a mono situation, man, for sure. Yeah, if I'm like that. Yeah, if I'm ever in a position where I'm rigging a chub again or a crawler again, there's no doubt in my mind. I'll be back to all mono. I mean, I feel like I've, when the bite gets super duper tough for me, you know, on all those years of testing that stuff out and watching, watching Jimmy catch five in a row and then pulling the old slip of, oh, whose rod was this? You know, okay, switch it over and then all of a sudden seeing that that, you know, controlled rod that I know and switching it out amongst the boat and seeing, okay, now she just caught five on that and the braid one isn't catching anything. I mean, I, I, those results that I messed around with back in the day. I could never forget that. I'm pulling a pulling a straight finesse crawler or a chub or something. I don't, that's exactly where I would be back to again. And I'll probably be back to mono again, you know, especially really in the season, jigging a shiner and stuff. There's sometimes where good story, Brock and I were guiding on Winnie One time and I had all braid on because of that, you know, guiding. I don't have to re-spool my rods and he come by me, you know, saying with a group of people and he had 16 fish and I was like, what? And we talked about this before we went up. I was like, I'm just good. I got all my braid rods and I literally stopped the boat, put it on spotlock, re-spooled three rods for my customers into mono and we caught them before they filled out. So some of those results I'll never forget about and I'm not saying that I'll get completely away from mono. They obviously all have their application, but going back to braid for the first time, you know, full braid. Besides not just on my reaction dates, but going back to it is, it's refreshing and it's, it's been fun because I haven't used it this much and so long. Yeah, dude, no, we'll wrap the day up. At any point in time, do you start to contemplate, you know, kind of where you're sitting maybe and maybe you're feeling kind of good, like you get back on the dock, is anybody ever talking about what they got? Are you trying to figure that all out? Because I know you get, you know, with that gruff, they, you know, what is it? The top 10, they kind of bring you through the bring you up on stage in that whole bit. Like I'm just sort of curious about the whole experience when you eventually get the win. Yeah, I mean, there was, there was quite a bit more to the date. So that when we had that 24, that was about nine, 30, 10 o'clock. Oh, still early. Yeah. So, so we had our, so we had five fish there and and it all, you know, you're so dialed in, I looked at Brock, I was like, do we have a stage bag yet? You know, and we're, it's always kind of our first thing is like, I feel like we've got some good fish and I don't even know what's going on. We just get them. We go back to work. And so I feel like we might even be close to a stage bag. And I'd say, yeah, I think we got some work to do. So we made one more move. And I know we made another move in a boat. I think it was 11 30 or noon. I went through another, you know, dance with another 28 and we landed another 28. So it's like, okay, I was like, now we got a stage bag. I know we got a stage bag. Now I'm proud of tough this bite is. We may be looking at top five. And so we're like, we just need, let's just get one more 30 and seal this deal up. So where are we going to get that? And everything started to kind of, you know, get really tough. And we had a shallow jig, my jig rap bite going. And so I was like, well, let's go do that. I'll throw a mental for a little bit. And I couldn't jig rap because I had, I mean, my hand, I had broken my hand. So I couldn't, I couldn't sustain a cadence with jig rap. So I was like, I'll toss, I'll toss a mental why you jig rap. And we went out to, you know, where that program was going. And it was shallow water, you know, eight foot, eight 10 foot. And I tossed in a, in a pack with a mental. And I told Brock, I was like, oh my gosh, the giant, the mama of the pack just went down and sure enough, she picked it up. And I set the hook. And I, I mean, I was kind of awkward because we had floated by her and, and then, and I set the hook. And I, you know, my, my hands messed up. So I couldn't even really bear down on it. I'm almost in tears because I'm trying to keep this fish buttoned. And I couldn't really get a good hook set on it. I was like, I didn't even move her. And then, and I pulled out of it. So I never got a, I mean, it was giant. I told Brock, I was like, well, there was our 30, you know, that was, he can't make that mistake in Graha. And we didn't even talk, we didn't say anything for about a minute. And he's just going to work with his J and all of a sudden, he's, I'm on. And, there wasn't two minutes later. And he, he grabbed our last winning fish. We didn't know with that. But it was a 26 and three. I thought it was a 29. It was, it was built different than the edge fish we were getting. It was probably a, probably a seven plus pound 20, probably a pound 26 and three quarters. And I was like, well, you saved my butt on that one. You know, just losing that fish. And we definitely have a stage bag now. We, we know it. And we know we're going to, because your smallest fish was something in the 24's. Oh, see, we had a, we had 26 and a half of 26 and three quarters, a 27 and two 20, eights. You know, there's a little change. So that's that last, that last 20, that 26 and three quarters upgraded you off of having a 24 or something on your card. Yeah, yeah, yeah. That's a heck of a bag. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And so we're thinking about him. We're like and I don't even know. We started adding up. So we, we power fished a bunch more. And of course, we were still trying to find that 30 that would really seal the deal for us. But it just kind of fell apart. We didn't get bit again. And then we pulled in and then Brock starts adding up and he looks at me and I'm like, and I'm like, again, I, I'm not a real numbers guy or super, super technical guy. Like I just fish, put my head down and I fish as hard as I possibly can to the end. He's like, dude, we got a lot of weight. Well, what kind of weight we got? He's like, we got more than last years winning weight. I was like, well, that's good by a couple of pounds. So yeah, then we started the real, the reality started to set in that this is a possible deal. And I said, well, either way, man, we fish better, but we outfished our pre fish actually. And I couldn't be happier. So wherever it lands, it lands. And of course, the results were better than I thought. So it was, it was pretty amazing. Yeah, dude. I mean, are you talking to anybody up on stage like until they announce it? Like, I mean, do you really know the chatter? You know how the chatter goes? So I heard a 50 ball, you know, he hear all these stories. I, well, we'll see. We have heard that before. But yeah, but you know, we know a couple people, you know, there's, I don't really dig too hard, but it's like, you know, some people are just open about it. I'm like, well, I know we didn't get last place because we have them be. But yeah, I really didn't have a clue. And then when you start to see the stick show up, because what happens is, once you, so you wait, you go home, you land your boat, you get off the water, and now you're waiting for a phone call. Okay. Okay. Yeah. So you're waiting on a phone call. The time starts ticking and it's the time here's sweating. You know, you're like, well, what happened? Did we measure a fish wronged? Did something go wrong? There's always that. And so there's always those things in the back of your mind. And then you finally get the phone calling. I'm like, oh, this is, you know, insane. We made top 10. So let's, let's get to the arena. And then you all line up behind the arena and, and, and, and, and Lindsay, the director, everybody's kind of saying, okay, here that you're going to come in here. You're going to drive your number one, your number six, they held the top 10, and give you your rundown. So when you get there, and you look around, you're like, oh, no, he's here. Oh, no, they're here. No, they're, you know, so then you start looking, you're like, man, these are some, and they're always just heavy duty sticks. And you're just like, I don't know, man, these guys could have anything. They could have 50. They could have just make it up 10th. I don't know really, really. When you get that caliber of fisherman together in a top 10, it's who knows where and and Brock's younger brother, Cole, who is fished with us forever. We know, we know he's heavy because we talked and obviously we sat and be asked with them for a while, but we don't tell each other. So it's like, oh man, so then Brock and our head and landing is like, what do you think about Cole? He's like, he's heavy. And I'm like, I know he is. He was one of the biggest worries because it's like, they won't tell us, but they told us enough to know that they're heavy. And then there was some outliers that I didn't have any clue. But yeah, so that's the way it ended up actually Ben and Cole were second. So it the and we didn't know right up to the very end until they told their final weight, which was in the last minute of the show. We didn't know we had beat him yet. So it was a lot of fun, you know, having those good buddies, Brock's brother, they're like younger brothers to me, Cole and Ben, it was amazing. Dude, that's cool, man. I wouldn't have never known, you know, Brock, you know, I look at the look at the the winning weights there. I guess I would have never put two and two together. I don't know those guys, but Brock Anderson and Cole Anderson are brothers, man, that's kind of hilarious, dude. That's a man. They're going to have plenty to talk about at the holidays this year. That's awesome. That is awesome. Dude, that is wild. And then I mean, like a little bit of a, you know, then you, I guess kind of fourth of July fits in the middle there. But then it's turned around and we should jump right into this lunmania deal while we still have a few minutes. Do tell me how that went go. That one went right kind of the same feeling, you know, going through the season. Luminus kind of been a crazy ride for I fish with Nate Leninger on that one. So the only tournament him and I fish together and and the last two years we have actually one lunmania. So same kind of feeling going into that one. It's like, man, we've been so lucky and so fortunate. What you look at that field, it reminds me of Grawha when you get there and you're sitting at the rules meeting you look around and you're like, dude, that guy's been guiding out here for 30 years. And that that's so and so and that's so and so. It's how do you, how do we come up with a plan to beat these guys? So it's like, you know, let's just go have fun and, you know, we've we've been fortunate the last couple of years and we'll dive into it and and see if things are setting up the same way because we only had really two days to put it together. Nate and I just, you know, time crunch. We for a tournament like that, I'd love to be there a week, but things were kind of set up similar to the past and we we recognize that quick and then we just kind of kind of seen what they what they wanted to eat, which really wasn't a whole lot different from the past either. So, you know, when we came up the night before, we're like, well, everything's sort of similar. You know, we got one little bit deeper program that's that's shown its face a little better, you know, kind of more of a similar to that aim when that went out there and we were there for that event. So we learned that then. So like, well, let's mix it up and do those two things and stick to those, those two programs and those few spots and not leave it and see how it shakes out. Well, going into that tournament every year for the past three years, going to sleep at night, I'm just racking my brain. It's like, I don't even know if we can catch six fish because this is six versus five like aim and grow. I don't even, well, not even sure if I can catch six fish, let alone six overs. Yeah, because it's catch photo release there too. And now one thing I don't know about Lundmania, is it always on auto tailway? Always. Yeah, always has been. Yeah, it's always been over 17 years. And then how do you get into that one? Is it just anybody that has a Lund boat can sign up or how does what is the deal with that? Yep. Captain has to have a Lund boat and you got to work. You have to run a Lund boat in it. Right. That's the only stipulations. I know I know for a very long time, it was, you're just not getting into it. Period. It was repeats the end and maybe I don't know for sure about all that, but I know when I first got into it, it was, I've always wanted to go over and do it. And maybe I should have dug in harder. Maybe I'm wrong about this, but everything that I heard is there's no point in even trying. There's not, there hasn't been an opening and so and so years. And then I think this is how this shakes out. It could be wrong. They decided to make it 75 boats. And that's, I think that's how I, I ended up slipping in there. Actually, Joe and I fished it the first year because I had all the stuff blends together. I think Dylan and Taylor were about to have their first baby and Dylan couldn't pull it off because Dylan and Joe got in before I was ever in. I don't chuck and I fished it together. They all blend together, but anyway, I slipped in there. I think Joe and I fished it one year and then, then Joe had some stuff going on and couldn't fish it. So I asked Nate and Nate jumped aboard and Nate and I have been doing it for the past three years. And pretty crazy Nate and I fished three tournaments and then victorious and all. And it's just, it's such an unbelievable feeling. So I told them maybe we should just hang our hats right now. We can say we've always we've never lost. That's funny. Yeah, I guess you made mention that you had a couple of programs from a little bit of pre-fishing and just, you know, having passed history out there. And you're trying to just gain some confidence in something with an abbreviated pre-fish. And so you go in with the strategy. I mean, how did the day go a little bit? What were the conditions? What, what did the lake throw at you and just kind of how did it go? Yeah, it was hot. So the two, we, you know, the we had a spot that we really think needed wind, you know, and we thought maybe we could get one or two out of there. But it needed some wind to really ignite and we were really scared of it the night before. I was telling Nate, I was like, they're there. I went in and looked at him. I didn't cast that one. I just take that back. I casted at one fish that I was kind of didn't know what for sure it was and it broke me off. And I was like, I'm pretty sure it was a giant. I told them but I said, I counted like I counted it. I just cruised up and down it. And I said, I know there's 15 overs in that stretch, but I don't know if they'll bite if we don't get wind. So we're like, all right, let's just write it off. Because the weather is saying it's hot calm and tell like noon is kind of what my weather was saying. I was like, we could always go in there when it starts to, you know, when the service tension breaks, we can go in there and try to, you know, grab a couple at the end. But let's just kind of go right on some of those steep edges and look for fish that we know we can maybe convert in a dead calm hot day. So that was kind of our plan as well. We'll try to get what we can. And then when the wind starts to blow, we'll get up in that other spot where those where I seen them over is and try to grab a couple. Well, we woke up in the morning and I went outside. We we stayed at a buddy's fish house and I went outside and tried to start getting stuff ready and I ran back in the trailer. It's like, dude, it's blowing out right now. I don't know where it's coming from, but it's blowing. And he just kind of moved both just looked at each other and they're like, okay, because we didn't really know where our start spot was yet. We're like, let's just make a decision when we hit the water. So the whole time driving there, we're like, okay, do you think it's still going to blow? Is it still blowing? Can you see what are the trees doing? And we finally see the lake and I was like, it's good enough. I was like, we're going there. And then it was kind of calm where we're sitting for takeoff. And I'm like, staring out as hard as I possibly could out at the lake. And I could still see that the service tension was broken and there was still. And so we ended up going there first and pulled the biggest fish we've seen out of there. We pulled a 27-incher out of there. We got a 24 and a half with these are in my experience on Longmania. These are monsters, you know. The biggest fish we've had on our card in the past has been 24 and a half. So our first big one was 24 and a half. And I'm like, holy cow, that's a way to start it. And then we put a 22 on there. And then Nate stuck that 27. I'm like, we have like, I think we had like four hours left at that time. I was like, we have a heck of a start to a big. So I was like, let's just run as fast as we can run. And look for even if they're small overs or even 19s or, you know, just as long as they look like the right stuff, let's just try to get them in this box and surround this 27 and this 24 and a half and 22. If we can even surround it with 19s, we're going to make the stage, you know, because that's another really cool deal. You know, big parade, top 10 go through the parade at New York Mills and New Throwing Candy and all this. Same conversation as God. You know, we could have a, we could have a parade bag, you know, we could have a parade bag and then pretty soon at five overs, which was a 27 and a 24 and a half, a 22 and then like a 20 and a 20 and a 20 and a half. It's like, we need another big fish. And then it flattened out on us. So like, this is what we said, we got to get out of here. Let's get out of here. So we went out and we're looking for some suspended stuff and a little bit deeper fish and then Brock. who doesn't fish with me there, is fishing with Jason Rylander and we watch them stick a giant in their squeal and I was like, oh man, those guys don't get to, they don't usually get too excited unless they really got it. I fish 100 tournaments with Brock and I'm like, man, he is a stick and Rylander's right there with him. So it's like, so that made me a need of like, oh, well, we know there's good ones here. You know, there are probably maybe a hundred yards from us or something and I was like, wow, there's three giants great there as like, and I start lorning on them and they actually already had bostured a little bit as like, you know, and there's so much stuff. There's so many sturgeon, so many suckers, so many whatever in in, uh, otter tail that it's kind of like the Dakotas. You just have, you can tell you can start deciphering what's there. Yeah, it's just tons of it, but when they start to posture up on you're like, okay, it's a predator for sure and there's three of them. So it's a school. So it's probably and sure enough that fish turned on me and came over pretty lethargic and pulled my bait in and I set the hook and I actually, I actually touched that fish and I, I'm 99% sure it ripped my crawler off and I hit my hands down which I never do when I get a bite because learning on life's go up, you could, you could follow it up with catching that fish any, any second and I did that and then I kind of like popped out of it and I looked up and that fish has all was already still postured and I just wiggled a little bit and it, it came and hit it again and I caught it and that was a 28, which was the biggest fish that I had ever caught on otter tail. So and it was the biggest fish of the tournament. So kind of kind of when it's your day, it's your day, you know how a lot of that stuff is locked and to be the third year in a row to do it is just absolutely mind blowing. Yeah, dude, 35 pounds, 35 pounds on otter tail. Yeah, I mean that aim, I don't know if you followed that aim when it went out there qualifier. I don't think so. Something happened out there. Chuck and I had 39 pounds. I think it was. So really? And and and Lundmanio was two weeks before that and I told Chuck I was like, we have, we only have five fish and we have the biggest bag Lundmanio has ever seen by like five pounds. I was like, there's no way. I think we got a good chance at winning this. Always show up to weigh in and we got fifth with that. So there's a phenomenon that happens out there and my only my only assumption is and we didn't see it on our graph, but I think it had set up, I think a thermal climb set up in there and and every fish had to push up to that edge that, you know, 20, 25, 30 foot stuff where I think they spread out a lot more than we think and because it was wild. I mean, there was we we talk about it. I want to say there was over probably 20, 20 or plus fish caught over 28 inches in that AEM tournament, which is I don't even think anybody could ever imagine that happening. So we know they're there and it's just we've done it again and nobody I know that I know has ever seen that again, but I mean, I don't talk to a bunch of people with it. So it was right around that time where we get hot summer and it would and it very well, I mean, it's the only thing I can think of is it wasn't a super hard thermal climb that we could see, but it was there enough for those fish knew it was coming or was there and they and they had to push up where they could be targeted a little, you know, they were more in a barrel. No, I didn't even ask you were you throwing jig crawler the whole time mostly. You know, it was honestly a lot like it was a lot like the keg. I would say a little bit. I mean, we got some I can't remember if we got a way fish on a bober, but it definitely turned some you know, had the bober rigged up, had the jig crawl rigged up. Let's see what else. Jig rap we never really got much to go for us all through practice. I mean, we have done really good out there on jig wraps before, but just wasn't really happening, but I would say most most the bag came on jig crawl, you know, whether it was sometimes it was going all the way up to a quarter, you know, to to make it sort of more of a reactionary deal. And then then sometimes it was, you know, half an allay it there, like, you know, we're kind of used to, you know, put pin it on their nose and let it flow. Do you have like a selection of your favorite jigs? Oh, I've been using the VMC moon eye quite a bit that what the broad head keeper on it that tungsten I've been using that a lot a bit this year. And then I go through, I go through so many. And that's probably been one of my number one jigs. And then a red line, I've been using a red line quite a bit, but those are tough, those are tough on a guy's pocket. Yeah, dude, especially fish in Minnesota where it's like there's more two to four pound pike than you can. That's it. Shake a triet like it. Yeah, yeah. Oh, I'm scared to death. I feel that in my bones. Yeah, I just scared of death that throw a red line on Pekagamo or or any of these lakes right around here. I mean, you can go through, you can go five or five casts thinking your casting at something good and it's a pike just gobbles it and it's like, oh, oh, yeah. Or they just come out of nowhere. Especially if you're anywhere near weeds. It's like you, you can have the juiciest looking walleye and the fins are just popping and just right for the pick. And your jig is four feet below the surface of the pike comes out of nowhere. You're just like, oh, that one's gone. Thanks. Don't even get to set the hook or get any excitement out of it. Oh, yeah. Gosh, yeah, dude, that is actually such an awesome point. But yeah, with that that broad head, that's kind of a unique bait keeper on those moon eye jigs. Yeah, that is, that is definitely a good one. And a fairly light wire hook, like, I don't know if it's something that you have like hard preferences on, but I imagine that you feel a little bit confident that you're going to get good penetration out of a hook like that. Yeah, I mean, I like it, especially shallow where I'm not, you know, you get up to like the woods or something. I definitely step up my wire into a little thicker, just seems like you got to really bury that hook and then your first few reels, you know, you're really trying to pull that hook into that fish. So I'll go a little heavier just so I'm not overreacting, you know, that small wire up. I mean, that's just an example is Lake of the Woods where I love to have that heavy wire because I've really buried up there. And then, yeah, you know, the first little bit of it, there's a bunch of torque to make sure that that hook went through the bone. And sometimes you get, you know, you're not as far away as you think or whatever and you can roll that thin wire over. But mostly shallow, I like that that thinner wire or bobbers, I will go a little thicker too. We kind of got some custom jigs that we have made, you know, that have a pretty heavy wire on them as well. Dude, let's let's sign this off, man. You've been generous with your time. We've done a bunch of gear talk. I made make sure to fit that in. We all love that. And in the last couple of tournaments gone really well for you. We know you've got one more NWT regular season coming into play. And, you know, we'll wish you luck on a solid finish there. And if that happens, then then you'll be set up pretty good to make the NWT championship. That'll bring you out to my part of the world and get out on Sacaca, we are for that championship. We won't count our chickens. So you still got to fish that tournament. I don't want to jinx here anything, but wish you luck there. And yeah, man, we can sign this off if, yeah, I know you're a busy guy, but I want to give you the chance to maybe, if anybody ever had questions or wants to follow along on your exploits, do you ever, do you have like a Facebook or a social media page or something that you would be down to throw out there? Yeah, it's just my personal page. I mean, I don't, I, I went into the season wanting to do a whole lot more, keeping people updated. I don't get on there as much as I should, but just my personal Facebook page or Andy Topper. Right on. And yeah, I bet I'm hoping I appreciate the luck. I, I definitely had a whole decline mod of NWT and I'm, I'm scratch and I can keep this, scratching my way there. If I can keep this lock in this ball roll, and I'm hoping to, I'm hoping to capitalize on it, been finished. Heck yeah, dude. All right, man, we'll all let you go for real. All uh