Summer Series 2.0 Part 2 with Brenden Dillon

(upbeat music) - Regressing to the meat since 2015. It's the hockey pediocast with your host, Demetri Philipovich. - Welcome to the hockey pediocast. My name is Demetri Philipovich and joining me is my good buddy, Brennan-Dellen, Brennan, what's going on, man? - Good to be back. This is a third time, fourth time as a chart. You know what, I think the fourth time. And that's starting to vault you to some pretty hollow ground here at the pediocast in terms of guests. And I think deservedly so. I love having you on every time. It's becoming an annual tradition here in the summers and whenever the devils are in town to get you on the show a little bit and catch up. You know, I'm thankful that we already put the work in over the past couple of years and built up this chemistry and connection 'cause I would've been worried otherwise after seeing you on the playoff broadcast or hockey night in Canada, rocking your snazzy suit. I feel like if I hadn't gotten in on the ground floor when I had it, it would've been a tough get at this point. But I feel like now that you've been on the pediocast a couple times, you were answering my calls, thankfully. And so we were able to make this work. - Hey, you know what, I'm a loyal guy, Demetri. So you know, I was with us on with you first before I was on there with the, with the accent McLean and those guys. So yeah, I mean, I'll have my agent reach out afterwards. - Yeah, I was joking with you. We probably should've suited up, but it's the middle of the summer and it's really hot. So we won't this time, so maybe next time. Yeah, I'm not surprised you were awesome on there. You're a natural doing this media stuff. I do have to say though, your teammate, Jake Allen, is phenomenal at it as well. I've been talking about it whenever I have Kevin Woodley on 'cause he's buddies with him. We always talk about it a little bit, but I imagine I'm not sure if you guys have talked about this at all, but the second he chooses to stop playing, I imagine he's gonna slide right into a full-time role 'cause he's a natural doing the stuff on TV. - Yeah, I think, well, the amount of times Jake and I have carved pulled into the rank and talked hockey, texted wrote hockey, put in the locker room on a roller on the road, whatever it's been at dinner. He's definitely one of the closest buddies I got on the Devils and great human being, incredible, incredible speaker as you see on there. And so I was taking all his notes that he had over the years 'cause I think he was on in a couple two or three years ago for the first time and chatted with me a bit about the opportunity. And I said, you know what? Don't think of it like a game seven, think of it like a game six. It might be a little bit nerve-wracking as it was, but no, it was great, it was fun to be on there. - So I've got a fun list of topics for us to get through today and gonna try not to step on the toes too much of stuff we've already talked about, although I was listening back to some of our previous hits in preparation for this and I was like, "Man, those are some good topics." I wish we hadn't gone to that yet so we could get to it today, but we're gonna run through it and see how much we can get through over the next whatever 40, 50 minutes. I want to start with this year's playoffs in reference to you being on the broadcast, but obviously just watching from afar as well. I know that you're a student of the game partly why we get along so well and why these shows are so fun with you in terms of trying to like watch all that stuff and absorb as much of it as you can. And in particular, I mean, I think there's a lot of lessons to take considering, especially once you get the systemic up final, it's the game's being played at the most competitive level between the two best teams. And I think there's a lot of stuff to take from there in terms of mixing into your game or trying to figure out what's gonna work moving forward. And you've obviously got the connection, especially with the hurricanes, with our guy Niklai Elers, finally getting the mountaintop and winning it. And I was incredibly excited about it as a long time Elers booster here on the show, talking them up for years, just seeing them kind of fit into such a natural spot and really get celebrated for what a special player he's been for a long time now, but finally getting the team achievement as well. And so it was really cool seeing that. I'm sure you sent in some texts after that and it was quite a moment for him. - Oh man, it's. You can argue just, there's talented players and free agency and how things work, but that was just a seamless fit for Nikki. He's, I just texted back and forth a little bit with him to send him a congrats. And I'm sure he's doing the tour to Denmark right now. Even the line, I think he started on the Ajo line and then they had him a little bit on the Blake and Stank Open Line. And then I think it was kind of around, I wanna say January, February when we played Carolina, the last time for playoffs when they got role in it. They had him with Martin Hook install and I felt like people were kind of like, oh geez, a checking line have them on there. And all I thought to myself was, wow, that's gonna be an absolutely fantastic fit. You know, Jordan style in the face off, Martin Hook go work, get the puck back, hunt, get on the forecheck, get the puck to Nikki and then let him dance and do his thing. And yeah, the speed, the skill, as he said, you've been a big fan of his. I got to see it firsthand for three years in Winnipeg and huge congrats to him for sure. - You know, you're talking about how, when you're on the broadcast, Stone Act, like it's a game seven act, it's like game six, game five of the Stanley Cup final. I was joking at the time because he was doing one of those pre-game interviews on the ice with Kyle Bukowski and he's asking, Kyle's asking him about what it's like coming to the ring for the biggest game of your career. It's 2-2 in the Stanley Cup final. It really feels like, you know, it's up for grabs and obviously Carolina winds up winning those two games and he's just completely stone faced at the time, like such a bad ass just being like, just another game we're here to play hockey. And oftentimes guys say that it's a bit of a cliche, but it really felt like he genuinely meant that and then he goes out and has, I think, like three primary assists or something and in the biggest game of his career, just plays an absolute rock star performance. And so, yeah, that was incredible. I thought that Keynes team, you know, I was fixated a lot on their forecheck, I think as others were, it's been a staple of their game for years. You and I have talked about how it makes them so difficult to play at times with how relentless they are and just keep buzzing around trying to force turnovers. And they certainly got more skilled with additions of guys like healers attacking more off the rush doing that stuff, but you could really see it in that series that felt like, you know, the high flips became such a big talking point. Some of the stuff that does the defenseman, some of the turnovers that resulted in and both teams are trying to leverage their advantage, but the hurricanes really just excelled there. And I don't know, it's gonna be a good entry way for us to talk a little bit about the art of retrievals. And I'm sure you're watching some of that stuff in terms of like the puck being dumped into the corner, how that's being played by the defenseman, what you can sort of do to get yourself, wiggle yourself out of trouble. The hurricanes are doing such interesting stuff, creating these like two on one mismatches down low where hall and Blake would almost corner to the defenseman. And force the quick turn over and then stanko in order to be posted up at the circle and it would become immediate shot from the slot. - It's gorgeous. - And that really, really calm eye and I'm sure when you're watching it, you're like, oh man, that's such a brutal position to put that defenseman in because there's no real outlet. And you're almost getting like the space is being taken away from you. And then after you turn it over, you're out of position because you're behind the net and it just, they punish you every single time doing so. - It's well documented how unique of a style a Carolina plays. Not many teams play like it. I would say the Florida Panthers are probably the closest, you know, stylistic game to them in the sense of get the puck away from your net as quickly as possible, get it as close to their nets and just impose forecheck, impose, you know, your speed, your physicality. And, you know, eventually that team's gonna crack. And Brett Pesci have gotten really close with over the last couple of years and it was just interesting between us playing them and playoffs last year and playing in the division three, four times a year. And it's a tough team to play against. There's no way around it. Not only because of their forecheck because of their neutral zone, because of how connected those five guys are when they're on the ice. But, you have to tip your cap to Rod Brindamore because they're well coached. It's, you can't just have four guys on the same page and a fifth guy off doing his own thing. If one defenseman is swinging in or surfing on a neutral zone and as other defensemen sleeping and not doing it, that guy looks like a donkey and there's a two on one and scoring chance. Same thing on a forecheck if you're asking the D to pinch and be aggressive and go down the wall or you'll get down on his winger. If he's not getting covered for that chipped puck or that bad bounce that goes by the forward coming back, again, looks at a place negative against him and they just really do plug and play. It doesn't matter which players they bring in and free agency or trade. It's a big credit to them and identifying players that are gonna fit into that system. So as you talked about, just the difficulty going back for pucks, not just a hard rim or a soft chip with speed coming at you but when that rims going around, you know, all three of the forwards for Carolina know where they're going. The one guy's gonna be sealing down the strong side. The other guy's gonna be sealing for the back bump puts at the strong post. The other guy's coming in the third guy's reading where that's going. If it reverses back, he's gonna be there to support his other forward. If it's going up the strong side and they try to continue going that way, they're gonna be above and take away the speed through the middle. So it's, you know what you're getting. You watch the video on it. You watch other teams play against it and it's still a tough, tough team to execute against. So the way that you get around that, I think I mentioned it when I was, was an unsports center in Toronto for those couple days when we were kind of doing the, the Carolina Hurricanes, you know, hockey packs was they don't give up much, but when they do, it's usually a breakaway or a great age chance because there's been that little break and breakdown of guys falling down or there's been a weird hop or a weird balance because they're so, so, so heavy man on man that that's all it takes like you're truly relying on your buddy whether that's your deep partner or your forward down low that he's going to have his guy and when you're solid at it, when you're hard on that and able to be physical to end plays early to get pucks turned over to go the other way, it's super effective and they of course were the best at that system, they're the best team in the league and winning the Stanley Cup for a reason, but for us as defenseman going back and you're expecting it, the toughest play in hockey is getting a fumbled or a flipped puck whether that's through the neutral zone or off the yellow, getting that settled down, getting your head up to make the next play and executing it and if you can do that and you can you can break them down, you're probably going to get an odd man rush, you're probably going to get some some sort of offense out of it or at the very least not being your D zone for a minute or two, but it's tough to do, it takes communication, it takes teams truly, truly working on it and sometimes you just got to fight, live to fight another day and not give up that grade A shot from the middle that the four checks going to try and create, so Carolina Hurricanes hockey, you know what to expect and they're good at it. Yeah, the different types of challenges are so fascinating to me, we've discussed this a little bit but I wanted to get into it a little further with you, especially in light of what the Hurricanes did because they've certainly got some traditional crash and bang type of players like William Carey, for example, who is just goes in, he's looking to take the body, Jordan Stall was certainly a physical force in that series but then you've got a lot of these sort of like high work rate, maybe undersized guys who aren't necessarily going in trying to punish you and and take the body but are going to be, you know, trying to craftily get the stick in the way, we're kind of knock the puck away or even as I said, create a little two on one situation where they can sort of force you into cough in the puck over and, you know, there's certain challenges I think to each type, I think it's never great to know you're about to take a massive hit, going back, especially if you're in a bit of a vulnerable position, but I know you kind of talked about and it's probably aged pretty well in terms of the take you had about how like you got like Mitch Martyr, for example, has always been someone you've had a bit more difficulty with because he's so crafty and he's knocked ever hit you necessarily but he's always looking to kind of take the puck away or even bait you into, you know, I'm going to go here and then all of a sudden you think there's an open space and he quickly darts there and cuts it off and that's exactly what the hurricane's did, right? And so I find that fascinating from a defense perspective in terms of the preparation and in one way it might seem conventional to think like, oh, like you don't want to take that punishment especially that game 100 or whatever you've played so far this season, but in a way I feel like some of that stuff where you're not necessarily throwing the body but instead you're just trying to trend the puck over using your stickwork is probably even more challenging at times. Well, that's that's exactly I feel when you have a team that that has those different makeups that has those different styles of player. If I was building a team or I'm looking at another team's roster, it doesn't matter to me if the guys five foot six or you six foot six but that kind of competitiveness or aggressiveness or willingness to to get into the corner and get into a battle like, you know, just for Brad, I watch him all the time like he's five foot ten, you know, five nine five ten and and Bradder, it doesn't matter if it's Brendan Dylan coming out of him in the corner or it's Quinn Hughes, like he's prepared and willing to, you know, reverse hit hold on to that puck, try to make the next play Logan Stankov and willing to get in there getting the corners Taylor Hall. I mean, he was throwing body around, you know, bigger than I really even seen him doing most his career and big oligot rewarded for it. And I think most times as a player going on to the ice, you should know who you're on the ice against, you know, I'm on the ice against, and how is Stankov or am I on the ice against the Robinson and Carrier? Well, you can kind of pick your percentages on what that four checks going to look like, but at the same time, even the stick checks, even guys coming in and being hard on those sticks, being hard in the corners or in the box. So it's, people talk about toughness and physicality. It's, it's not necessarily just dropping your gloves. It's, it's getting into those one-on-one altercations, whether that's a box-out or a corner battle for the puck and being able to win that. And, you know, I got into, you know, the social media watching, you know, the Rod Brindamore press conferences and post-game and there are a locker room. And those are always the fun things to see as a fan and as players too and seeing the messages that are getting sent through and why they're working or what, you know, seems to be the focuses and that seemed to be something that has always been talked about in their mentality and even, you know, friends of mine that are on Vegas and how far they went this year. Same thing, you know, just the importance of every sort of little battle or the importance of every little play, getting the puck outside the blue line as opposed to a turnover, making sure you're willing to get your box out or you're, you know, staying your check throughout a defensive zone coverage, they're all so important. But, you know, I think those, those different styles on a team and on a forward line specifically can really be dangerous. Were you having during that series and maybe even shortly thereafter were you waking up in the middle of the night, having nightmares with cold sweats, just putting yourself in the shoes of someone defending against some of those high flips? Yeah, like I shaped the order to phenomenal job for the series and then eventually started making some mistakes, but did about as well as you could possibly ask for in that spot. But it's just such a nightmare situation, right? Where, especially that late into the postseason, the ice isn't necessarily that good. And so all of a sudden, you're trying to crowd this ball-blowing puck at the highest leverage area of the ice, right? As you talk about like your, your own blue line, where if you mess that up all of a sudden, it's a two on one or even a potentially breakaway behind you and know what really to support you. And you've got this pressure coming at you, and all of a sudden you're being asked to make this play. And it's now just one time, but maybe 10, 15 times over the course of a game if you're playing as much as he is. And that's got to be, I imagine. I mean, I'm sure you get to this point, that's something you relish that opportunity to kind of make plays in those spots, but at the same time, it would certainly keep me up at night if I was having to kind of do that over and over again, knowing where it could go wrong and all these different possible scenarios and then trying to do the best like Canada's hang on whenever I'm called upon to make a play there. Well, similar to the four-check where they know where the puck's going where you can use that speed of almost anticipation to go to where it is. They're forwards to the same thing. I mean, you see sometimes in neutral zones where they're forwards back. They'd realize that they're decore whether that's Gauss' spare slave in or Miller or Chaffee would get the puck there. They're out of the zone. They're expecting that to go out. So it's not necessarily that it's a bobbling puck and you got to settle it down. This guy is right on you with the puck bobbling and you need to settle it down and you need to make a play on it. We all signed up forward as defensemen. It's not the most glamorous and great way of your hands in the air. You made a breakout pass, but when you're able to make those crawl it, get it to whether it's your D-partner safe spot within your forwards. It's not necessarily going to make an ESPN top 10 or sports in that top 10, but on the other end of it, if you do bobble it, if you do give it up as a turnover through the middle and they score, that definitely will. So it's one of those plays that's super, super tough. You try to work on it in practice. We're kind of in the off-season. It's just being able to have pressure on you. We'll make a play under pressure. It's the difference between the American League and the NHL. It's a little bit quicker. The difference between Junior's College and Pro, a little bit quicker and a little bit more aggressive of the four checks and good sticks. It's tough play. Especially as the game goes on, as the Ace gets crappier, as the humidity, the all these different factors that come into play, bobble and pox and high flips there. They're never a bad play. That's for sure. Yeah, I'm sure he won't mind at this point. We bring it up, but I was talking with Siggie John the Sigglet at the time. He was prepping for it from no-hand if it's perspective. Especially the Golden Knights swept the the abs before and they had a bunch of time and it's like, "All right, what do you see it on tape?" Little things, you can identify that the Hurricanes might try to do and you put together this package of all these set plays and things and certainly involve the high flips. Some of those two on one's down low on your own. Zoe and I mentioned little trade mark plays that they rode to great success through the East. That's all well and good, but I imagine there's a big gap between recognizing stuff on tape and being like, "All right, this is probably a position I'm going to be in," and then actually executing amongst that pressure when you know there's absolutely no margin for error. The Ace is bad, you're mentally and physically fatigued. Maybe you're banged up and all of a sudden, you've got a Logan Stankov and bearing down on you trying to force the turnover. It's like, "Yeah, I know I'm probably going to be in this spot, but now actually executing and handling the puck and making that pass is just an entirely different thing." It's probably what separates someone like myself watching at home and being like, "All right, this is probably what's going to happen," and then actually being on the ice and doing it. Yeah, it's just exactly that executing it and whether it's the coach or your teammates or fan watching on their TV, the expectations that you're going to make that play, you're going to have that happen from as a defenseman and that's That's why that's part of the job, that's part of the job. of why you work on inner practice a million times, why you watch the tape and watch the video. And getting to the NHL, the pressure is higher, the stakes are higher, the importance is higher. And that's what if you're somebody that wants to be a competitor, you love that stuff, you look forward to it, you should be wanting to play against and measure yourself up against the best. So getting those opportunities to be in the Stanley Cup finals, I mean, you've literally grind for seven months just to get into the playoffs. Then you've got to go through three grueling rounds just to get there. And it's an intimidating play, knowing that you're going to have to be under pressure, going back for Pucks, get hit, execute, get over a stick, but it's at the same time you should be excited for those opportunities. And I know, I mean, he's a fantastic player, Noah Hanuffin, from the breakouts to the offensive zone to his skating. But even then, a lot of those that the biggest team in general, I mean, it's when you're under siege for whatever it was, five, six games, it's tough to come back from. You know, I'm going to ask you about the PK. I imagine that's something you take quite a bit of pride in. And for the devils, you eat up a bunch of those minutes. And there's a certain set of challenges involved with that in terms of what you're trying to accomplish, right? You're not necessarily out there trying to outscore the other team, although we did see, for large stretches, both the hurricanes and the Golden Knights penalty kills were either like drawing even or even scoring. The opposing power play, which you're going to take every time and maybe no accident they had as much success as they did in the postseason. But throughout the year, you know, it's really kind of like a, you know, just get the job gutted at any cost. Mentality really, whether it takes like knock a puck away or just eating a shot in front of the net or winning a battle and allowing your teammate to clear it and get off the ice and let the next guys do it, right? But I'm curious for kind of your approach, especially as the game's been changing, we talk a lot about, you know, offense is getting so much more diligent about looking for the best shots possible and all these big advancements we've seen from an offensive perspective and then trying for someone like yourself to counteract it, right? I thought something that was very evident this postseason was some of the advancements we've seen on power plays where, you know, we went from, I imagine this was still the case when you came into the league, but like the, the Shay Webbers, the Daniel Chara power plays at the time where it was like set up that big bomb from the point and other than Derek Radish, really, we just didn't see anyone doing that in the NHL this year. Then it went to kind of that, you know, first the, the Ovechkin one timer where you go from a John Carlson or a Mike Green back in the day up high, just bumps it over and you get the one timer from the circle, then we saw Kutraov come in and, you know, add a little wrinkle to it by sending that crossing pass from one end of the ice to the other to set up a stamp goes. For example, I think more recently we've seen, maybe because PK's have been so good at taking some of those lanes away, an adjustment where teams are operating so much more from, from down low, right, where you're kind of getting that goal line guide almost be a bumper player where he like opens up and you could either one touch a pass into the slot or you can bring it out to the front of the net or just kind of be a little bit of a, a pressure release valve for the guy on the wall. Are you kind of seeing that in today's game in terms of, some of the reads maybe changing a little bit, what power plays are trying to do to create some of those openings and then how you sort of compensate for it 'cause I imagine especially as a defenseman to kind of defend any down low, making some of those adjustments and sort of figuring out like where the puck is ultimately trying to go and get there before it does has changed quite a bit from when you first entered the league or even as you've been going through it for however many years now, you've been in NHL. - Yeah, well, as you mentioned, I mean, PK, I love it. I love being able to get out there and be up against, you know, the top players on the other team and usually it's a big momentum shift positively or negatively if you're able to get out there and get a big kill and frustrate the top end players and the other team that's a big plus for your side and on the other end if you give up a goal, it's a big downer. You feel like you, you know, you let your team down. There was again, missed opportunity to be able to kill that against some momentum but for us on the PK similar to the power plays, you know, I think we're doing our homework more to where we're finding similarities as teams have success. Of course, it's a copycat league. They're gonna find those, whether it's breakouts, we saw, I'd say over the last, this last year's for sure, you know, D carries the puck up the ice, you know, whether it's a Werenzkiyihara Heiskenin, does a draw pass back and instead of just letting that player pick their way through, they're keeping going through the middle and trying to almost do a slingshot type play and I definitely saw a few highlights and even when we were playing against the Columbus's and Dallas's and Colorado's where they try it with these high and D. - You know, Rasmus Dalleyn does that really well. - Yes, Dalleyn, another player that, you know, there's probably seven or eight defensemen across the league that you just have to respect what they can do with the puck, how they can skate and create offense and all those guys we just mentioned would be parts of it. - Similar to Inzone, the top end power play guys, you just named some of them in Kutrav, McDavid, of course, McKinnon. These guys, like the toughest power place to be able to read off of are the ones that are just basically waiting for you to give something up. They're patient, they wait for the look. Y Tampa Bay, I feel like is so deadly with it is they've got, you know, they've got the right hands, you know, with Kutrav setting up on his off side. They've got the one time run up top with Radish. They've got point for the one time run in the middle. They've got Gensel down low, who's got, you know, a great stick, his ability to be in tight. And just even those four guys let alone, you know, the fifth that they can throw on there. I mean, pick your poison. There's so many in Kutrav can bomb away. All he needs to do is shoot at once and you as the strong side defenseman after respect that shot 'cause he can score from there. But at the same time, if the opening up top is there and you can shoot and bomb away, if you take away the four low options and, you know, sometimes teams will create offense on their power play through just sending big bodges to the net, you know, bigger size guys, the Anders Lees of the world. Nick Paul, of course, when he was there, even some of the top end Mark Stone, these guys like they go to the net. There's, you know, we're talking six, three, six, four, you throw another defenseman like myself, six, four in there. Now your goalies are having to look around, find the chaos and next thing, you know, there's rebounds in the back of the net. So, special teams in general are so, so huge. As you mentioned for Caroline and Vegas, I mean, it was a big positive for both teams that was huge to get them both to the finals. I don't know who ended up having the exact edge and in the final series, but it's just such a momentum, gainer or killer. And for the aggression that you can have, like, I love aggressive timely kills. I love when I'm able to step up in the blue line, sometimes you can catch a guy, sleep into the neutral zone and really catch him through the middle. Sometimes in zone two, you know, at the anticipation, you know, you're going similar to how we talked about being connected early on. If you're going, your partner's coming with you, your forwards drop and now low to take, protect the net front, it really messes with power plays. And I think the aggressive, the pressure usually makes them at the very least make a play. They don't want to make or it's a bad pass or bobbled pass and I can hopefully, hopefully, capitalize to get it out of the zone. Well, I imagine your answer is going to, you know, involve that some of that prep you mentioned in terms of doing your homework, kind of knowing what's going to try to happen. But what I find interesting is sort of the discipline in terms of in particular, like sometimes maybe not chasing the puck. And I think back to, I think it was in round one, it was like that Minnesota Dallas series. And it felt like it just kept happening. And that and Eric Johnson was doing a great job, who obviously has a, a wealth of experience in that particular spot, defending down low in the PK over the years, kind of like diagramming what the power plays trying to do to you where you're, you're obviously trying to create an numerical advantage with a two on one or whatever, or three on two work in that triangle down low. But the defenseman's job sometimes requiring like the discipline of actually staying in front of the net and potentially not providing a lane for the pass into that Jake Ensel slot or sorry, that the brain point spot in the, in the slot, for example, for example, where that's probably the most dangerous one timer that your goal is going to have a really difficult time trying to stop. And oftentimes you see when the puck gets worked down to the goal line, I think it's like natural human reaction to be like, all right, well, that guy's kind of open and he's in a pretty dangerous spot down low. He's one of the most skilled players in the league. I'm going to go try to take time and space away that we hear, talk about a lot. And then he's really trying to bait you into chasing him to set up that quick pass, which is the more dangerous. When Eric Johnson was pointing out that in those spots, the defenseman's job is to probably just kind of stay at home and let the goalie handle that goal line guy. But if you do that, I imagine there's times where it doesn't look the prettiest on tape after if it doesn't wind up working for you because that guy just brings it out. He's got space and all of a sudden, if he just buries it from a tight angle, maybe internally, the coaches are going to be like, well, listen, that's what we talked about. You did your job to go lead didn't make the saver, whatever it happens. And it's not your fault. But certainly when you're like watching at home, it's like, oh man, what does that defenseman do and why didn't he cover that guy? There's so much space. And it all goes down. I guess your assignments and what the game plan is defensively. But I find that kind of cat mouse game of the coverage and potentially their blown assignments or reads or guys doing their job in the other team just executing better with the extra man to be one of the most interesting parts of this whole discussion. Well, that's that's playoff hockey in a nutshell. The adjustments and the cat mouse and who's more prepared and and able to really follow through with the game plan that they have. And even as high end as as part. are there's usually one player that thing is run through, right? So for Carolina, I mean, I feel like a lot of the time, Gaussespares got it up top, right? Ajo's got on the half full. I feel like for Vegas, things run through Ikel. And so when you can kind of cue in on some of these things, I think that's, that's for us as a PK is just being dialed in. That's the best part about hockey is you've kind of got within your team, you know, your team game plan, where you've got, you know, the power play, you've got the penalty kill, you've got the gold goal union, you've got kind of your offensive four lines, you've got your D Paris, you've, you've kind of got within a team all these kind of little roles and little, little groupings and unions. And for the PK, when you're, there's definitely something to be said about veterans and where stick lanes are and being patient versus being aggressive. And there's so many reads that need to be done because the power play players for the most part are, you know, you can throw them out there and just an ice hockey street hockey game in the summer and they'll be the one snapping around and saucing it through legs and finding those plays because they're so creative, right? So a lot of times, if if a PK is in good structure, they're kind of almost going to have to go is ducking with the offensive power play guys. They're going to have to go off script and try and find something or try and move us around to be able to break us down and find that passing lane or that backdoor shot. That's, that's the most dangerous. So it's, it's got to be talked about in video. It's got to be, be aware of certain plays. Of course, in a perfect world, a power play is going to run a play that's going to work boom bang bang and it's in the net. But as it gets into the minute, minute and a half minute 45 and guys are starting to get tired and we're worn down. That's when the breakdowns usually happen. And as kind of you're mentioning Eric Johnson doing the diagrams, if you're in front demon, before you go in and rush on to that player in the corner, you know, are you leaving good ice? Are you taking away the most dangerous part of the ice and just going to pressure someone to pressure them? Well, these are, these are pretty good players in the national ocula league and they can make plays too. So it's, it's, it's a lot of fun. It's that as you mentioned, kind of cat mouse adjustments, what happens even throughout a game, you know, have two or three penalty kills or power plays in the first period while you, what's the first thing the coach is going to talk about in between? Okay. Here's what we've done. Here's what's worked. Here's what hasn't worked and make your adjustments from there. Hmm. So we're in the heart of the summer right now. We're recording this one is July 23rd or wherever I wanted to get into a little bit of of your approach in the off season in terms of the process this time of year. I know, you know, I, I want you to back on for if the parents. I'm going to, I'm going to pump you up a little bit here. But I think that you don't need me to do so, but I, you know, I can speak from, from just our conversations like I know how much thought you put into this and what an accomplishment. It's been, you know, the longevity you've had in the league in terms of just being on the ice all the times, playing all 82 games, but also getting that thousand game milestone, trying to kind of reinvigorate yourself as the game around you is changing. And so I know you've put a lot of thought into some kind of curious in terms of what that off season attack looks like for you when you're getting on the ice and, you know, either working on technique, trying to add little wrinkles to your game, whether it's tinkering with gear, I don't know, I don't know what the process is like for you, but I'm always fascinated to see like what the approach is. And maybe it varies from year to year. It's not necessarily always static, but just like in terms of the seasons over, you maybe take a little bit of that rest to get your, your body in your mind, right? And then you start thinking about next year, like what, what does that look like for you in terms of what you're trying to accomplish and what the game around is and that's what you're out towards doing so is. Yeah, well, I mean, first and foremost, the lead transfer for all the nice things after, after, after after off the pod, but summer, I feel like it's just, it's the most important part of a hockey player's year, you know, if you break it, break it down to the 12 month segment of, of a hockey season, it's just, it's when you get the most time to work on things, when you get the most time to get your body right. Last summer, what was, was kind of a gong show for me, I had off season X surgery. So I was really behind the eight ball for at least a good eight, 10 weeks. I wasn't being able to really get on the ice and do much performance based stuff. It was more rehab. The summer has been, been fantastic. I've been on the ice a bunch. I'll write it. It's been one of those things where you start getting that, you know, in July, first and then middle of July and then by August, you're just like, John, like, call, let's get this thing going, let's get camp going. And I've, I've gotten myself into, to a really good routine. I'd say years one through five. It was, get homes, your buddies, you know, get partying and, you know, kind of celebrating year in the NHL for another year. And then the mid segment of like the years five through ten, where it was like, okay, you know, geez, now we're in this thing. We've kind of established yourself, like, how do I get better as a hockey player and not just stay in the league and then you start, you know, your, your role and, and how a defensive defenseman for myself looks is it's not just be 240 pounds, you know, not be able to skate on the ice, flip every puck out of the zone and hit everybody. It's, it's evolved into, okay, how do you find the middle and breakouts? How do you not just be physical and hit players, but how do you use your stick to surf and close quicker? How do you be able to compliment a high end offensive defensive partner by whether that's skating or, or finding their, their, you know, abilities on the blue line, getting them to puck more. I'd say some of the biggest years for me were playing with Brent Burns and Eric Carlson in San Jose. I was fortunate to have such an amazing core group of people there and, and also core defense core, Paul Martin, Mark Edward Vlasik, Justin Braun, Brent Burns, Eric Carlson, where they just, like, every day, you learn something new from them and take that into the summertime and I'm, I'm a big, I love being in the gym. I love getting in there and, you know, whether that's just not a roller and talking to hockey with the guys before, you know, getting the competitive juices going and on the squat rack or, you know, a couple of bicep curls, but, you know, getting on the ice in the summer and really seeing, geez, I didn't realize like that player was as skilled as he really is or, wow, that guy could shoot the puck and I feel like, you know, all he does is dump it in and hit guys or, hey, geez, that guy, you know, there's a reason why I feel like he's on the first power play unit and throughout 30 goals last year and it's, it's just for me, the learning aspect of it and I, I usually take about two to three weeks of just doing nothing, relaxing, hanging out with the family, seeing friends, golfing and then I get right back into it. You know, I like to start off for the few weeks of beach workouts for myself, some chests or shoulders, some upper body and then, you know, of course, you got to get into the lower body for the hockey stuff, which, of course, is our job and it's, it's, I never have thought about hockey as being a job. I've always thought about it of just being so fortunate and so lucky to do what I love. And I think for any young kid or even my own kids, it's like, if you love something, you know, you're going to want to get better at it. You're going to want to strive to get better at it. And, and I just, I still remember, and my dad loves to remind me, you know, as a 670 year old kid, like I was the one waking him up for, for the 5 30 AM or 6 AM practices. And I still am that way, you know, when I get to get to the rink early, you know, tape your stick, get prepared for things and you talked about equipment and then changing things up year to year. I, I usually like to change one piece of equipment every year, whether that's gloves, pants, how I tape my stick, you know, the graphic on my stick, just something to look a little different going into the year. And regardless of if I had a personally year that I was happy with or not happy with, I still like to change it up because I truly think that, you know, getting out of just your normal routine is good. And it's almost like a refresh, like, okay, hey, we got a new year, you got to approve yourself again to not just your teammates or yourself, but to the league. And that's, that's something that doesn't just come with one good game or one good practice. You know, it takes, you know, games and years and, and it's why I have, and I think the hockey world should have so much respect for the Sydney crossbees and the Conor McDavid's and these players that we talk about that are elite, but they're really year after year after year after year after year after year and do it against the toughest competition. And as I mentioned earlier, you should want to compare yourself to the best. You should want to be the best. And, you know, even though I'm a Brendan Delan, I love watching, you know, the Jacob Slavens of the world and love watching, um, the, you know, the Zach Warenskis and, and, and all these top, top end defensemen, offensive or defensive, just to, to try and see if I can try something and practice or try something. The next time I get on the ice to, to be better for myself and, um, you know, grow my name. That's a great way to put it. I co-sign that in terms of it not being a job, being fortunate to do this every day. That's what I tell myself when it's July and people are at the beach and I'm grinding Dominic James tape and trying to prep the next season, put it in the work. This is where I feel a povich mixed tape. Yeah, this is where we call our hours. This is where we put in the work. This is where we get better. This is where we create that sustainability. I imagine like the season is such a grind. Once you get into it, right? There's an element of survival mode where the schedule is so condensed. You've got these stretches where you're just seemingly playing every night and you're almost, you know, you're coming out of games and you're like, oh, we got a game the next day. You're just trying to prep for it and get yourself ready for it. The practice time is so low these days and I imagine that's a big frustration for coaches around the league and for players as well. Well, I imagine as well, right? Like it's tough to kind of work on some of those skills. Of course, you're going through the tape and trying to do your prep work accordingly, but in terms of some of those skills, like it's a much tougher to kind of round those out and potentially improve in that capacity in season when all you're worried about is the next game is opposed to the benefit of this offseason when you've got the time to actually log some of those hours. - 100% that's exactly it is, especially these last two years between the four nations and the Olympics, it was just, if you could get two to three legit actual practice days where you can, you know, work on your systems, work on different positional drills, you were lucky and that's the nature of the beast too. This year we're going to add two more games. We're going to be at 84. So if we thought it was going to be less of a crazy schedule, we've already seen it. Yeah, maybe there's a few more breaks in between, but it's still going to be chaos and just when you think or you're sitting there gasped and tired, you're the only team dealing with it. Well, there's 31 other teams that are in the same boat. So you can't use that as an excuse that, geez, you know, we just travel last night and other back to back, oh, we just played this team. You know, there's, we got all these guys injured. You know, other teams are dealing with the exact same stuff and I think that's the grind and also the best part of the game. Like I love that November through February where it's just like games 20 through 55 of just, you know, your back's just mangled, your hips are in one from the five hour flight across, across the country, you know, you're playing it back to back with crazy travel because you know, it really does show you what you're made of, whether your team's made of the, there's going to be nights where, you know, one line's got to kind of pick you up or maybe the goal is going to win a game for your team because they just don't have it that night. And the best teams I've been on and the closest groups I've been on are those teams that kind of really enjoy those moments of oh boy, you know, like geez, we're on back to back going into Carolina tonight at the cup champs, you know, you could be, it's easy to mail it in but at the same time, you can, you can just look forward to those, those challenges or those opportunities and have some fun with it. - What's it like in terms of you go away after the season, you're kind of working on yourself throughout the summer, you're going to be one, like converging once again for camp once that all starts back up. But in the meantime, obviously the off season comes with a lot of change. And for example, for the levels of summer, right? You go out and make a couple trades, you bring in a bunch of guys, sign Anthony Manta, you acquire, you know, Evan Rodriguez and Jesper Boquist and there's a bunch of new faces, new skill sets, new personnel involved essentially the GM changes as well. Like there's a bunch of sort of turnover along the way and so you're kind of removed from it a little bit, I imagine in the off season because you're kind of working on yourself and doing your own thing. But also within that team concept, like kind of trying to then put that all back together is an interesting wrinkle to it as well, I think. - Oh, 100% that I still remember, I think it's my first year in the league full time with Dallas and we had an older veteran team and myself and Tonyer Cell, Alex Shason, Cody, and we had a probably five or six guys that really just get in their feet wet full time and the veteran guys were so, so, so good to us. The re-witness of the world. Trevor Daly, Alex Gologoski, Eric Nistrom, of course Jamie Ben and I just remember how great these guys were, Vernon Fiddler and at the end of the year, I remember Eric Nistrom's contract was up and you know, he'd hung out with the boys and you know, he'd bought a bunch of dinners for the young guys and I just like thought the world of this group of older veterans and I remember me like, hey Daly, you know, have a great summer and hopefully we'll see again. If not, maybe we'll see you know, during the season I kind of thought like, what do you mean? I was, I borderline wanted to tear up like, you've been so good to me like, I'll see in a couple months a training camp like, what do you mean you're leaving? You're not signing back and I remember, that was the first time me really getting like a glimpse of like, hey buddy, like I don't know if I'm resigning back with you guys, I just don't think there's cap room in this and I was kind of like, wow, a guy just, it just didn't really comprehend and then, of course he laughed, he signed with Nashville at the time. I want to say, you know, at least, you know, at every year you look at rosters, there's at least usually three to four new faces, whether that's trades or guys coming up or free agent signings and you know, you're after a year you, of course you make close friendships with guys, you see whatever it is, 260, 270 days you're with this group of 23 dudes and you're going through tough times, you're on the road, you're going for dinners, you're getting to know their families, they're just everything about them and it comes to a point where, whether that's for more money or more opportunity, I don't know, hockey crews are so short and so small that them being able to go and capitalize on that and, you know, whether you see each other in the summer or you see each other at the following year at dinner and before they play them, that's kind of the business side that you understand as you get older, you understand as, you know, whether you yourself get traded or you yourself go through a contract dispute and have to be able to move along or move forward without your buddies or without guys that you really were close with. So for the devils, as you mentioned at least and, you know, three or four new faces, anytime you do get new faces in a locker room, there's excitement, there's just a natural chatter and communication that comes with that. And guys are, hey, where are you from? You know, what your summer looked like, those types of things and then practices too, you know, you want to be able to prove to these guys, you're a good player too, you want to prove to them that, hey, we take pride in being a part of this organization, representing this organization. Couple of those guys, of course, Stanley Cup champions coming in from, you know, what was the benchmark in three straight finals a couple of years ago and, you know, like another guy that scored 33 goals last year. So there's, there's some excitement. I think there's no expectations. We, we've got a new general manager in, we've got a, you know, three or four new coaches. It's, it was a year last year that, that I don't think anybody in the entire devils organization can be happy with. So lots to prove and especially anytime you don't win, there's going to definitely be more, more change over and that's, that's just the reality. Yeah, I was going to ask you about that a little bit, sort of the reflections on last year, right? And I caught you mid-season. I think it was like end of January when you guys were in town here in Vancouver and you're kind of going through it. And we discussed at the time, like some of the frustrations that come from, you know, when you, you feel like you're playing well, but the process isn't necessarily leading to results. A lot of the, I kind of uncertainty involved as well. You guys had a ton of injuries, right? There was so much kind of personnel being mixed in match, particularly in the blue line. And we talked about at the time, like all the different partners you'd play with and how that could be challenging at times because each guy requires different sort of things for you to mesh with as a partner in terms of what you're going to be asked to do, how you can support them and kind of figuring that out on the fly. You got any kind of reflections now that were removed a couple of months from it in terms of sort of reflecting on last year, and then obviously want to kind of put it in the rear view mirror and move on. And you get these new faces, a lot of excitement. It's a fresh season. So there's a lot going for you there, but just kind of like how last year went, I guess, and sort of like the lessons you can kind of take from it and then apply to whatever's coming in the future. - Yeah, well, the reality is we just weren't good enough and in all facets, like I think a lot of our, you know, our penalty kill year before my first year, we were second in the league and it was a huge, huge positive for us. I would say arguably between that and the powerplay won us games. I think our powerplay was like third in the league or whatever that year too. And, you know, the preparation and everybody being on the same page, you know, it just wasn't that way this year. I think our five on five play, we really struggled the score goals and I think when you play the Devils and it's been pretty, pretty well documented, you know, we're a rush team that has so many, so many high skilled players that want to make that play, that can make those plays and, you know, teams would just kind of stay above, they would sit back, they would force us to have to dump pucks, force us to have to go and forecheck and it's tough to do when, you know, that's not your necessary bread and butter. So hopefully, you know, we can add to continue to keep the rush game, continue to keep the speed we have. You know, when we play slow too, that's just something that it's so, so apparent that we've got so much speed, everybody on our team can skate, our forwards, our D, we can get up in the rush, we can use it, our forwards, I mean, I tell them every time in practice, like you guys don't realize the speed that you guys can play with and just even, you know, taking a little bit of the Carolina high flip and pressure the D, make them make the turnovers. I think a little bit of that can help our group and it's, it's a fresh year, I think that's the exciting part when you go into camp, there's 32 teams that legitimately think they have a chance to compete, right? So it's kind of around that games 30 through 40, 50 that, you know, there's the separation starts to become more apparent and, you know, the frauds kind of seem to move away and the real, the real squad seem to, you know, kind of step their game up. And for us, as a whole, as I mentioned, we've got a bunch of new coaches coming in, you know, hopefully they can help and add to help us get things, things rated and getting back to the playoffs and, you know, the other thing to do. who is just, I think understanding where we're at, for how talented and incredible of a group as we have, looking at it on paper, like I almost start to feel bad, like Nico Hishir, I've grown and understood and just been such a huge fan of his game and seeing it up close and personal. And the fact that I think he's been in the playoffs maybe three out of his eight or nine years, which is just, it's crazy to think like he's such a good player and we need to get in just to be able to show that more. Jack Hughes, incredible, incredible player, so gifted and can really control a game. And I think especially him and seeing how well he did in the Olympics and we had a bunch of those guys that really showed well on that stage and in playoffs, those should be what we wanna get and strive towards and get back in the meaningful games, even down the stretch, at the last five, 10 games of his season fighting for home ice advantage, that the rivalry games against your division, I think that was another big downfall in us. I think we went like on three against the islanders. I think we were like on three or maybe one in three against Carolina, Washington, we may be one one. Like winning those inter-season series is against your highly rivaled teams that are so huge and go such a long way because whether it's a back-to-back and they're building and you're building, those are the fun ones to play when you've got the little five-year-old that's where in the Philadelphia flyers, you're either Rangers, you're telling you to go screw yourself and you just wanna win those ones not only because they're four-pointers, but to create that rivalry, which has been a great part about the league over the last few years is all those inter-season kind of rival games. - You gotta say in watching all your games, guys games last year, one of the silver linings for me was how impressive I thought, or is any gritsick was? Like I thought he was so fond of watching. - Unbelievable. - He's not your conventional rookie in terms of his age and all the reps he got playing in a pro league overseas, but the adjustment is just as big if not bigger, I imagine. - Yeah. - In terms of like the cultural change, learning and you language kind of adjusting on the fly in real time like that, and it's interesting and you bring it up sort of the history or stuff in terms of like the individual play and then it not being recognized as much because you're not on those biggest stages at times I imagine that played a role in the perception of his rookie year as well, right? Because of the state of the team and not making the playoffs, there wasn't as much attention placed on it, but you actually look at some of the underlying numbers and the tape and it just absolutely pops off the charts and so he gets a three-year deal, I believe, the summer as well and I'm really excited for what's coming for him 'cause I thought he was just such a breath of fresh air for the organization, I was just so fine to watch. I know you guys had some fun times together as well. It seemed like you took him under your wing a little bit. - He's, I mean, I think, hopefully this is a hot good take, but I think that's gonna be one of the steels of the league in the sense of like just unreal contracts. Like of course, for good, see, it's whatever, nine and a half million bucks, which is super well deserved, but he is a like incredible player. Like how he shoots the puck every forward, I feel like that played on his line throughout the year would make comments, he's the speed, the creativity, plays hardies, he's willing to learn. Like coming over, I always try to put myself in a player who's from Europe, from North America as shoes who doesn't speak the language, who's coming in and whether that's a coach barking at him or a player on his line trying to get something through to him and not understanding what's going on. His translator was around for the first month of the year. Luckily, we had a couple other Russians who were able to somewhat break things down for him, but he never truly was, you know, it's not like he's getting everything right away in a video session or right away in a meeting. And I thought he was just great about it, hit the way that he was with the guys. Everyone really loved being around him. He was funny, he wasn't afraid to, you know, partake in activities with the group and as opposed to just going and sitting in his room and face-timing his buddies back in Russia. You know, he was, he was very involved, which I think led to success too, because that just makes it itself you want players that want to be part of the team or doing everything they can to have success. And he did. And yeah, I think for Gritzi, the sky's the limit. He's, he's someone who, as you mentioned, coming over and making that adjustment, I'm sure there was a period of it where he needed to, this, whether it's ring size or the travel schedule or as how the NHL works. It's a unique, it's the best league in the world for a reason, but he's going to be a heck of a player and definitely I think showed, showed very well. And as you mentioned, being on big stages that the more that we get out there and success we have, I'm sure he's going to be a big part of it. - Yeah, I thought he was really impressive. Okay, let's end with this. I always love to ask you these types of questions because I'm just fascinated to hear about the way you kind of see it, what your impressions were in terms of being on the ice. Again, some of these guys, I think last time I asked you about the most difficult or challenging team that you guys had to play against. And I believe at the time you said the Golden Knights and it was a bit surprising because you know, they weren't necessarily like the best team in the league by record or anything, but obviously it take that I think age pretty well considering their playoff run. I'm curious for your take now because a couple of months passed since and had time some time to reflect in terms of what the most challenging teams you guys went up against were for whatever reason, whether it was just a bad matchup, certain things they did that really kind of put you guys in uncomfortable spots or we're just a team that you're like, oh man, these guys are on the schedule. We got to go up against them again. It's not going to be a fun night out there. Yeah, it's a great question because I do think sometimes, it gets funny when you look at the stat packs before the game and you know, like there's some buildings. Like I want to say it's something crazy, like the devils of one in Montreal. I don't want to butcher it, but they've won a bunch of games in a row in Montreal for whatever reason. Like it's just like crazy. I want to say, I think on a negative side, I think when I got to the devils two years ago, they had some ridiculously bad record in Carolina. Like it was like they'd won one game in like six or seven years or something crazy in there. So there's definitely some statistics behind there that tend to tend to the element whether it's getting your head or just not work out for you. But I think when we played Vegas, I was one that really stuck out just because it was like four lines, three D pairs, we had no room out there, there's no ability to go. I would say another team that really stuck out. Of course, Carolina was great, but Colorado, we had a back to back early on in the season and the game we won in Jersey. I mean, we were humming at the time. I think we'd won eight in a row. We won in overtime the first game and it was just like they were coming at you. They had all four lines, their fourth lines had identity, they were physical, they were fast. I mean, they're top end skill between the Brock Nelson, the McKinnons, the Lanscogs, the Lekinins, they were just, they were clicking as well. And I remember going to Colorado. I think that was kind of the start of the spiral for us at that point for Christmas was like, we got sheld like eight, three or something. It was just not a good game. And that was another team that really stood out. And I mean, rightfully so they won the present trophy, they were a solid team all throughout the season. That plays well. And in the last game I'd mentioned is Florida, like they're just, they had, they dealt with their bunch of injuries throughout the year, but they just play so direct, they go to the net, they shoot the CREATE chaos. And it's just like over and over and over and over again. And you know, you know what note to expect? You know that they're gonna be hard, you know, they're gonna be physical. And it's just tough to play against because they've got this skill to go with it. Like not only are they gonna punch you in the face, but you know, they're gonna be able to make that saucer pass back door or super skilled play off the rush. So it's, again, having a little bit mixed bag and being able to win in different different ways I felt was tough to play against. - Where you went up against, then you were most impressed by and I'm gonna do an editorial note here. You're not allowed to say McKinnon or McDavid or one of the usual suspects. - Yeah, one of the usual suspects. - Yeah, I'm curious in terms of like someone who, you know, you're following the league or whatever, maybe you don't play them that often, maybe it's in the Western conference. And you see them on tape, you see the clips online, but when you're out there on the ice with them, they're just either a step faster or a little bit stronger or have a certain level of like skill or deceptiveness or whatever. You're just like, that doesn't necessarily translate on the screen, like actually being out there against it. I came away from it just more impressed in terms of what they were actually capable of in real time. Like is there anyone that stuck out for you last year where you're like, I feel like TV doesn't do that guy just as in terms of how dangerous or how good or just how difficult he is to play against? - Yeah, I mean, the usual suspects, of course, are always gonna be up there because they are truly as good as advertised. Someone that since I've been in the East the last two years that I would say has really stood out every time we've played like Pasternak is just crazy. how deceptive he is all the time, like, He's a big guy. He just, he's just always, you know, and he makes goalies look silly. He makes players look silly that are trying to check him. It's because he's so shifty and deceptive, but yet he's a big guy. Like you could try to box him out. You can try to finish him in the corner as hard as you can. And you know, he's going to give it back to you, but at the same time, be able to make that skill play where you're like sitting there scratching your head. Like how did he just do that? Um, you know, I, I think he's, he's just a high high end player. You know, another guy that, um, I would say he finally got his is kind of coming out, but like a Tom Wilson, you know, Tom Wilson is, he's known. Of course, he has the resume of, oh, yeah, he's a big, big physical, you know, suspended hits, fights, all this stuff. But, you know, the guy scored 30 a couple times. Now, um, he's found a way to impact the game with his stick, uh, you know, with his speed and tenacity on a four check. Um, it's just he, somebody that, that really, uh, I feel like has impressed me. And I've had the fortunate to be able to play with. And I'll leave it with the last one. I know you only asked me for one player, but loose terrain. And I feel like it in Florida. Press was so much, right? We didn't measure yourself with the PDO gas and the listeners. Yeah. I'm starting to know. I mean, I think those first two guys, of course, they're both Olympians. And so the, and I mean, loose terrain in his two, but I think for how he, like, I remember this year, he, like blew up Jack Hughes or they hit in the corner. But then at the same time was like making some incredible plays. Like little ones in the corner where he's going in, fumbled puck, and then, like, finds the middle on a nice little backhand sauce. And then, um, you know, this is on the PK. He's affecting the game in so many different ways. Um, I think he's like, such a, such a underrated player, um, you know, for the Panthers. Well, I, I mean, listen, I, I begged you up as a, a student of the game, but you certainly delivered there, um, in terms of the chat on, he's phenomenal. I mean, that, that line with him, Lundell and Martian, and their most recent cup run was probably their best line. And he was phenomenal in that. I was, I was hoping he'd say a brand and a go. Maybe it's, that's not even a hot dick anymore because, you know, obviously he's scored, like a top line player for a couple of years now. And, and it was really elevated his game. But I feel like he, he must be one of those guys where he's got the work rate component, where like he's just constantly moving and he's so fast and dynamic. But I've been blown away like how much skill he's continued to add to his game as well. He's a couple of years in Tampa where like he's becoming a go-to score for them now. And I think even if he's playing on Powerplay 1 this year, like that could go up even further. Um, so I'm, I'm cheating a little bit because I'm not an NHL defenseman going up against him. But I imagine he'd be the guy that I would not love playing against and, and probably doesn't get the recognition because he plays on the same team as Kutraov and headman Vasilevsky and all these other guys who are a bit more established. No, he's, it's, it's funny because the way the question is it's like when you ask for underrated players, it's like I, you know, I still think even with how high-end all these, you know, the McDavids of the world and the Celebrinis of the world, like I still think those guys need to even be like, you know, talked about more because that's how like they're getting every first pair of defenseman, every top end checking line. Um, you know, you know when those guys are on the ice and they're still doing well. So it was similar to Pastronack, like, you know, I, yeah, he's a fantastic player, but I can't just be saying, saying him, Tom Wilson, same thing, but like, same with Hegel, like he's an incredible, incredible player that I think the way of, of how his career has come about over the last three, four years really has been a coming out party for him and has really, he proved that he's, you know, not just worthy of, of all the accolades in, in the coming out, but he, he still sticks to kind of what got him to that in the sense of his, his tenacity, how hard he competes, his aggressiveness, uh, the forecheck, but as as you mentioned, the skill to make those plays to gel and be able to play with the Jake Gensel's and the kutraves of the world. And, uh, I think that's the highest, highest compliment you can give someone is when they make players better around them, right? Whether that's like for myself, I always tried to learn from the super high end superstar offensive demon as well as the young up and coming demon and it kind of be like a chameleon like, okay, how am I going to help this guy? And, and I think one brown and Hegel is probably the guy that any time John Cooper needs to get a line going, right? It's like, okay, I got to get this guy going, okay, let's put Hegel on his line. He's probably going to drag them into the fight. He's probably going to get, you know, whether it's creating a power play opportunity because he's drawn a penalty or get it on the forecheck and create a turnover to be able to get a scoring chance and get a line feeling it, um, an incredible, incredible player. All right, buddy. Well, this is a lot of fun. Your fourth appearance in the PDO cast officially in the books. I haven't looked at your guy's schedule yet for this season. I imagine you usually hear in town February, February, February, February, of course, you're more prepared than I am for this doing the homework. Um, we'll get you back on then when you're in town. We'll, uh, we'll check in and see where you guys are out of the midway point, but this was awesome. Uh, always a blast to chat with you. And uh, it feels like the summer is officially underway now that we've, uh, we've done this episode together and looking forward to our next chat. I'm, I guess, you know, I'll do it. I always let the, uh, the guests at the end plug some stuff. You got anything you want to promote? I got no plug. I mean, uh, yeah, hopefully a great successful season for, uh, what's your guys, what's your guys season opener? We are playing Philadelphia, um, I believe on October 3rd. So hopefully I'm, um, snapping around and having a great start. And then in February, we're talking about how grade number five looks, uh, for, for Jersey and how good the team's looking and we're comfortably in a playoffs. But so we can have some, uh, some nice, fun, positive talks. All right. As always, an absolute blast chatting with Brennan Dylan, who is obviously heck of a hockey player, but just as importantly, an all time PDO guest. Guess this has been part two of our summer series. We originally recorded this one with Brennan Dylan back in late July while this feed was still dormant. So I wanted to mix it in with the rest of the interviews we're doing as part of this series series for those of you that didn't get a chance to catch it on the Patreon feed when we first posted it. The summer series is going to keep rolling on in full force. Uh, next week we'll be posting the damn news and the Scott Wedred shows on this feed. I mentioned this at the end of the last episode. But if you'd like immediate access to all these shows as soon as they've been recorded moving forward, please subscribe to the PDO guest Patreon page. You can still become a member for the current price, lock it in for the full season all the way up until September 1st. After that, we will be raising the subscription price to help account for all the added perks and extra content we're providing our subscribers all year. That subscription gets you every single show we do right away as soon as we've recorded it and posted it in ad free form. We're going to have, you know, at least one, maybe two free shows available on this feed each week moving forward as well. Uh, but we're going to be doing a ton of Patreon exclusive content just for our subscribers, at least a couple new episodes every week. You'll get access to it and use letter. We've got show merch finally up and running and available for our listeners. There's shirts, there's hats. We'll be adding more designs shortly as well. And you get a discount code for all of it that comes to the subscription. So I've been rocking the hat all summer and it's awesome. So I definitely recommend one of those. The shirts are nice as well. If you want to rep the show, help support us that way. All of that. It's really appreciated. And I think you'll like it. The last thing I'll say is that I hope you also check out the PDO cast. YouTube channel will be posting full shows on there this season far more regularly. So, you know, if you'd like to just prefer to watch along with us and hang out while we're talking throughout the show, you'll be able to find out there as well to go along with all the player mix tapes we do. All right, that is all for today. We'll see you back here on this feed Monday morning. Thank you for subscribing and for listening to the hockey PDO cast. [MUSIC]