Summer Series 2.0 Part 1 with Todd Diamond

(upbeat music) - Regressing to the mean since 2050, it's the hockey epidemiocast with your host, Dimitri Philipovich. - Welcome to the hockey epidemiocast. My name is Dimitri Philipovich and joining me is my good buddy, Todd Diamond Todd. What's going on, man? - Not too much Dimitri, how are you? - I'm excited to have you on this marks the first episode of our summer series, the second year in a row, we're doing this back by popular demand after how much fun we had last summer. And similar to last summer, I believe we kicked it off with you and we're gonna have another conversation wide-ranging array of topics throughout this week. Really next couple of weeks, we're gonna have some, gonna have yourself as an agent, we're gonna have GMs, coaches, players on. So it's gonna be a really fun collection of people in the game, but I really wanted to kick this conversation off with you here because of everything that went down around the league this summer, right? Now you yourself I think had a less eventful summer or off season maybe than last year when you had a bunch of big contracts to sort out for a variety of your clients, but just obviously keeping tabs around the league and sort of seeing where things are going, right? With the cap continuing to go up some of the contracts we've seen with both the actual salaries themselves inflating, but also the term I think changing a little bit in terms of the approach various players are taking. I'm gonna curious for your take on it, we can take it in a number of directions, but kind of just like reading the tea leaves and sort of your thoughts on everything that's transpired so far this summer in the NHL. - Sure, well first I say thanks for having me and the most important thing in a good team is to have a great lead off hitter. So I appreciate that. With respect, like you said, the market, depending on the player and length of service has gone on so many different directions. You know, a lot of organizations were kind of able to maintain kind of their cap structure and others had to change it due to being forced to or having to have to follow what's been done. You know, so you guys like Montreal, Carolina going forward, they're gonna have a ton of flexibility. I think, you know, most players tend to follow success, they wanna go where teams have been successful. So I think that flexibility is gonna come in very handy for Montreal and Carolina going forward. You know, for example, you know, Florida and Tampa, you know, have a lot of their key guys on the contract for a while so they may be able to add pieces. I mean, it's gonna get really interesting. In addition, you know, we saw maybe some teams, you know, with old injuries, Florida had some teams in the east, you know, maybe were player of teams that, you know, maybe won't be. And, you know, with teams really trying to tie up their key assets earlier and earlier, which as we've seen is the wise way to do business this summer. You know, where do you find talent? You know, that's gonna be, you know, the draft is gonna be coming more and more important. Identifying talent, being able to bring players in and having them be in a place where they can succeed. I think a lot of times teams, you know, bringing players based on our stats and maybe don't pay enough attention to how does that player really fit into our lineup? So I mean, it's the Wild West has started and I think it's only gonna get crazier as we move forward. How much do your clients and yourself put into that, especially when you're evaluating, let's say a player is gonna be becoming available hitting the open market or is in a spot where, you know, their current status is uncertain. They're figuring out what their immediate future is gonna look like in terms of like identifying spots. Not only the waiting, of course, 'cause as you said, every player wants to do that and that's a big piece of the puzzle here, but in particular, like what teams have going on in terms of whether it's the lineup fit, the playing style they're currently using under their current coach, the personnel they have in terms of who they play with, just being put in a position to succeed. Like, how do you sort of identify that and weigh that in some of these conversations you have with your various clients? - Obviously, it depends on the player. Some guys can obviously pick and choose if they wanna get to that point in their career or use that as leverage to get a bigger contract where they are. A lot of times you don't have that option. For example, I remember arriving at the Buffalo for the Combine and getting called from William Eclan that he was traded, even though Mike career had told me several weeks prior that that probably wasn't gonna happen. I'm sorry, I mean, coming for the draft, he was telling me that the Combine Mike told me that he didn't really see that happening unless there was something special out there. So, William was committed to the sharks. He gets traded and obviously as you get away from the emotion and look at the opportunity, it could turn out to be a much better fit for him going forward that remains to be seen. But I think if players, I always tell our clients you have to live in a situation not me. So if you're happy there, if you have a good life, if you feel comfortable, it doesn't matter what city you're in, there's no need to see if the grass is greener on the other side, if the team wants you when you're happy where you are. So it's really an individual choice. Everyone has different motivations in life and it's no different in sport. - So the biggest change in the market this summer in my opinion and probably the most meaningful one moving forward, I'm sure one that you were certainly taking stock of with some of the clients you have maybe coming up for extensions over the next couple of years is young players sort of seizing control of leverage and I think doing so sooner that they did previously, right? I think we all become a condition to seeing RFA's kind of take what the team gives them. In some capacity obviously there's been higher end ones who have been able to call their shot sooner but for the most part the team has control for a number of years beyond their ELC and so they leverage that into bidding in the number of the contract of their whims under their current situation and in this summer, we really saw some of the higher end players whether it was obviously Leo Carlson's a bit of an aberration 'cause of the offer sheet but Celebrini, but Darard, even some of the young defensemen kind of get paid up front here on their second deals without necessarily having to give up any concessions in terms of maybe giving future UFA years so they kind of get their cake and eat it too in a way where they get the contract night here but also if the cap keeps going up, they're gonna maintain that flexibility down the road in four or five years through they get paid again or figure out their situation based on what's happening at that point and so I think that's a fascinating dynamic here I think fans have certainly been a bit slower to adjust 'cause you see that sticker shock when a number comes out for a player that's maybe less proven. I think teams are certainly trying to kind of wrap their head around in a reconcilet 'cause we've been operating for so long in this one particular way but I imagine that's not only music to your ears but also like something that will continue based on the trend we saw this summer. - Yeah, I think a big picture I think the NHL is now gonna start to follow the NBA and the NFL and that is the overall numbers get larger and larger and the high end players are gonna gobble up the biggest chunk of that. You'll see a lot more players getting comfortable with shorter-term deals. So when we go back to the extension of the CBA and the players gave up eight years to seven, I didn't really see that as an issue 'cause we already knew the cap was gonna start to see substantial increases and with the next US TV deal it probably will get even larger. So I think players are gonna get comfortable with shorter-term deals. You'll see the medium-sized deal I think come to the forefront and trying coming out of the entry-level system to try and maybe return to that contract we saw earlier on where players will give that one year either before or after a free agency before UFA status as the line and the sand of where they're gonna be willing to negotiate. But you see NFL NBA, you see two and three-year deals at big numbers. So I think we're gonna start to see that creep in to the NHL, the Celebrini contract, the Dard contract are no doubt about who are affected by the Carlson offer sheet. Directly linked to it in my opinion. If that contract wasn't done, who knows where those contracts would have been done at. Anaheim, when they extended Jackson-Lakom, they should have followed it up right away with an extension for Leo Carlson. From my perspective, on the team point of view, you really have to get to know your players and really understand the value that they bring to the lineup, not only in terms of production, but in terms of, can we win with this player? Is this player committed to winning? Because NHL rosters are a total sum of the parts. You can't just say we have the best combination in league. It maybe gets you to a cup two years in a row but it doesn't get you the cup sometimes. So you really need to be deep and if you're giving, from a team perspective too much money to two-fee players, you're gonna tie your hands. So again, you need to find the players that really wanna win, having worked with both, and both cases, players remember winners in this sport. The Stanley Cup has a lot of meaning. I think for players who all live still playing and for their post careers, everybody remembers a winner and a lot of people wanna be associated with the winner, whether the player decides to go into management or whatever they do post career. I think that winning has a lot of value. - I'm glad you brought up the different leagues and us kind of trending in that territory, right? I was joking and I think even I had our mutual friends Steve Wario and when we broke down, the Leo Carlson offer sheet and I kind of had a note in there about how I'm almost viewing the NHL as becoming the NFL in a way with their quarterback contracts, right? Where it's like the highest paid guy is probably gonna be the one who signs most recently. And we're already seeing that where Capriza was set to be the highest paid player in the league. And before you could even play a game on that deal, you get the Leo Carlson extension, then you get the Celebrini won the same summer, Hughes and McCarrer are gonna come up after, like I think it's gonna keep going in that direction. So I think that's a good point and I'm not sure it's a bad thing. Like I'm sure if you talked to various GMs around the league, they might be aggrieved in terms of where things are headed 'cause all of a sudden life maybe became a bit more difficult for them and some of the conversations they're gonna have with their own owners, but just the idea that players are getting paid sooner for, you know, everything we know is these are their most productive seasons for the most part, right? Kind of this like mid 20s range and previously these contracts were reserved for players who had accrued enough service time to be UFA's and that typically comes with being in your late 20s early 30s. And at that point it gets a bit sketchier in terms of production. And so yeah, you're paying more upfront, but you're also being able to point to as an ascending asset that's probably gonna have a better shot of actually paying that off for you. So if we get to that place and it actually becomes sort of the status quo for the league in terms of the way they operate, I'd kind of view that as a good thing. - I mean, I do too, but again, I think it depends on the motivation and what organizations are, you know, looking at as being successful. You know, when you have a player like Leo Carlson and you wanna sign him to kind of a long-term extension, you wanna build around them. And now Anaheim has had to kind of deconstruct around him and having to, you know, move some players and having to sign Karagotje enough to get that done. I may have to make some other hard decisions of losing good players, good veterans. Very difficult to replace. You know, so again, it comes back to motivation of things. You know, the game, you know, it's in transition. You know, it's much faster and more skilled than it used to be. It's the physicality, you know, kind of shows up, but certain points in the season, depending on the rivalry and then depending on the playoffs. So, you know, what does that mean? The going also to the 84 game schedule. You know, the players are different body types now than they were in the past. What does that mean to longevity? I don't know, but obviously it's a good thing for players to be able to get that huge jump in salary much earlier in their career. Not no question about that. This might be a difficult question to answer because I'm sure you're going to say it's on a case-by-case basis. And as you said, you know, you're ultimately what the client wants they're going to get, right? And it's your job to do your everything and your power to make that happen. But I do wonder, you know, we saw what a couple of offer sheets. This summer, neither of them were successful. Leo Carlson's got matched by Anaheim. The Barrett Hayden one got matched by Utah as well. Do you feel like, I mean, specifically with a Carlson one in terms of getting everything he wanted, right? It gets the term where he's going to be a UFA again when he's 26. He gets a significant portion of it, not only upfront in the first few years, but paid out in signing bonuses. It's really such, as everyone's talked about, such a massive win for the player and his agency. He still winds up staying in Anaheim. It leaves him in a spot now where maybe that proximity to winning becomes a bit more difficult as a result of it. Do you, what kind of impact are trickled down? Do you see around the league moving forward in terms of, I guess, the willingness, not only for teams to send out these types of offers, but then for the players themselves to actually engage in a match, because it does take two parties to ultimately get one of these across the finish line. Sure. I thought the offer sheet was not only in terms of money, but was just totally pro-player, the Carlson offer sheet. Because my point of it, if you're going to do these things, you need to have a really good sense of certainty that you can get the asset. But you're making more for sheet against the wealthiest owner in the league. Maybe he chooses to run his operation pretty tightly, and that have a lot of excess. And just kind of give the players what they want, and in terms of comforts, and nothing more. But if you're going to challenge him financially, when a guy makes $120 million a year just in dividends on his holdings of the company he sold, you really think you're going to intimidate him with money and signing bonus? Have you ever been around the billionaires? I have. If you challenge him financially, you're going to lose. And that's why I was always under the impression that the Anaheim was going to sign. And obviously, it's a tough thing to swallow. Because again, it kind of hurts the roster construction, and maybe where the team is headed. That remains to be seen. How some of the younger players will step up. But I think if you're going to do these offer sheets, you want to be smart about it. Like Doug Armstrong was with Holloway and Broberg. That was a smart business. But I thought the Carlson offer sheet going to the richest owner in the league. I just thought it was a full zoned. Yeah, that's fair. I certainly thought the financial concern of it was overblown. I did think, and it took them some time. I was expected them to match it, but I did think in some of the complications that would arise. Maybe they either go back to the drawing board and take a closer look, or at the very least kind of revisit why they got into that position, where they made themselves vulnerable to it and remains to be seen. What the fallout is there. Here's another question for you related to this somewhat in terms of maybe the changing term and structure of these deals. And obviously, this is a player who you don't actually represent. So I'm not sure how much you can speak on the matter. But just in terms of the concept itself, what we saw with Jason Roberts in this summer. It was a bit of a unique situation because the stars were really tight up against the cap for this one summer while they're waiting for Tyler to say against money to come off the books. He himself clearly wants to stay in Dallas. He just wanted to be paid to a certain amount. They engaged in a couple of potential trades that were reported. He ultimately winds up playing out on a one-year deal here this season. It's going to take them to UFA. And we'll see, ultimately, if there's an extension that comes January 1st on, but it's something that we've really seen reserved to the NBA for the most part, right? We have not seen these types of deals for primage players in the NHL, where you're taken on some of that added risk, maybe, of injury or decline in performance that cuts your earning power in the future. But if you're going to do it being a primage player, like Robertson is coming off of 40 plus goal season, it's probably the right time to do so if you're going to maximize your earning power long term. What were your kind of thoughts on that or just that philosophy in general? And whether we might see a bit more of it in terms of players being willing to take on some of that added risk for the reward potentially down the road? In his case, he's made some money already, so he's not kind of hurting. Also, just look recently historically, you don't only see thankfully players having really serious injuries that are going to make them lose their career with having anything on the ice. So I think maybe risk is maybe a reward that's maybe used a little bit too much. But you know, you know, like I was going to score goals. He's in a good lineup. It's just that you have to sit back and just kind of wait for the cap to expand a little bit. And I think in January, he's probably going to be in even better position than he was this summer. Because you know, the guy's a goal scorer. He can get it done from a lot of different places on the ice. So I don't really see too much risk in it. If you have the right player and he's confident and feels good about it, he would like to try and stay where he is. Again, like you mentioned, we have the early starting point of January to try and get something done for our clients. So I don't really see you know, too much risk in the situation. Here, the cap going up. So it goes 88 to 95.5 to 104 this season, 113.5 next year is expected. And then beyond that, we'll see. But I think everyone assumes it's going to start going into 120s and 130s in the years to come. And there's no reason at the time being to suspect otherwise. I'm curious for you to take some of the conversations or canvassing you maybe had around the league. Some pushback I've gotten is that the cap's going to keep going up. And there's going to be certain organizations that are going to engage that and be like, you know what, we're going to spend to our full capability. And it's not going to be an issue. And so we're going to keep seeing these contracts balloon the way they have this summer. And then I know that there's some other ones, particularly in smaller markets or kind of more precarious financial situations that are viewing that as a matter of time. bit of an issue in terms of their willingness to actually spend accordingly. And they're not going to necessarily treat the cap as 125 or whatever it is in a couple of years. They're going to have more of an internal budget that they operate on. Do you think there's any truth to that or do you think that's overblown and ultimately it's a bunch of rich owners, money's going to keep coming in and they're going to do so just to feel the competitive line up and especially if their teams good or make in the playoffs, they're going to be incentivized to do so. I think it's going to depend on ownership where you have strong deeper pockets that kind of understand that this asset is going to continue to appreciate. Maybe I have a loss on the books every so often. But the understanding the big picture of that eventually I'm going to sell this asset or even a player to reduce costs. I think NHL right now is a really good shape with ownership groups, maybe one or two where you could use a refresh. But generally I think the league is in pretty good health with respect to the economics of the game and the ownership of franchises and looking what's going to happen in Texas with the next ownership group there. Again, very solid people financially and with some understanding of the sporting industry. So that also looks like a pretty positive outcome for the league and for the players. So again, if a team is going to have internal budgets, we know it has to be in a certain parameter of the floor and the cap. So it's going to be a bigger number anyway. At the same time, you can't just pay any players, large salaries, need guys who are going to be productive for you. I just think the numbers are going to be high in any case because there's just going to be such a demand for talent. And talent is always going to get paid. Last one on the CBA. And then we'll get into some more specific conversations about a variety of your clients. I believe last summer when I had you on, it was still pretty fresh. Obviously some of the new items or action points in the CBA were starting to immediately take hold. But the CBA specifically is going to kick in on September 16th. I'm curious now that we've had about a year to sort of mull this over and see already some of this in action. What you from an agent's perspective kind of you as some of the bigger wins or losses, if you want to frame it that way, from a player and agent perspective in terms of the changes in legislation, of course, in some of the things that are kicking in in September. Yeah, I would say probably the biggest giveaway the players had would be look at Carlson contract. He has the 90% signing bonus going from 90 to 60. I think that would be the biggest giveaway. But it is what it is. And we just have to deal with it. You know, everyone's going to adjust. You know, like I said, I don't really view going from 7 maximum, from 8 maximum years to 7, as a really, I don't see it as a big deal because the numbers are getting bigger. So, you know, I think it's been, you know, and also, you know, the players get rid of a lot of expenses that we had out of the player share. So that was also a big, you know, a big victory for them. And also, you know, not having a labor dispute, you know, the both sides getting along and trying to grow the game outside of the, you know, current 32 franchise cities, I think, is very important going even past this extension. So, you know, obviously the players are probably going to have lower dry cleaning bills because I'm not wearing suits anymore. But, you know, I think time will show that, you know, it kind of worked for both sides. Franchises are appreciating salaries are going up. The game has never been more popular. The economics have never been greater. So, you know, looking down the middle, it looks like, you know, pretty much a win-win. All right, let's get into the real reason why I want to have you on today. A couple of players that I specifically want to talk about and I got to start with Consta Helenus, what player that I've been fascinated by. Obviously, we saw the nine regular season games from comes in and gets thrown into a pretty tough situation. I thought, you know, jumping into the second round of the playoffs and thriving in that spot in the four games. He plays scores a couple goals at a bunch of scoring chances really fit in. And I think generated a lot of excitement in terms of what's the come this coming season. Obviously, there is an interesting opportunity in Buffalo with an ascending team, right, that finally got back into the playoffs. Was one goal really away from making it to the Eastern Conference final. Alex Tuck leaves this summer, creates an opening in the forward group as well. I think someone's certainty down the middle, particularly in terms of how they're going to use to his homes and moving forward. Josh Norris' health, like, it's a pretty good spot for him. He's also in a fascinating spot because, you know, I think previously teams were very precious about maintaining back control with the ELC and not burning the first year. If they had to something I've been speaking about is I think teams are going to become much more comfortable fast tracking these contracts so they can get back to negotiating table as soon as they can, particularly if you give these young players extra years to not only develop and improve, but put up stats in the NHL. They obviously are going to be able to warrant maybe a higher price tag in so it benefits teams to do so. And they ultimately wind up burning through that first year with those four playoff games. And I think it was a smart move on all accounts by them. But it all of a sudden makes an extension eligible next summer. And I think that's a fascinating position for a player who's still clearly on improvement in the NHL, but is going to have a chance to really, I think, put a jetpack on and ascend as soon as this season. For sure, I mean, you know, Consta showed not only this past season, but being the youngest player in the NHL previous season, if you look at his game from October through the end and to the playoffs, the growth was exceptional. You know, doing, you know, hard things, you know, winning key face-offs for Rochester and getting a flavor of the playoffs down there, I think really pay dividends coming in to a sophomore season. You know, a lot of players in their sophomore season can kind of hit the wall, but I think Consta continued to show the growth month over month. One of the big things that really helped Consta and helped us was when before Yarmour was named GM, and he was consulting for the organization. He spent a lot of time watching Rochester. So I think he really, really got an understanding of what the elements of Consta's game that can make the Buffalo Savers a better team. So that was really important. And when those guys won on the run, the style they were playing, I think he saw a perfect fit for Consta come in. And, you know, the kids just crashed in the surface. There was just a ton of ability there. You know, he can really do a bit of everything, really doing a good job playing a 200-foot game, playing in a world championships in the line with the two of my other clients, Alexander Barclough and Mikhail Grahamland, I think was huge for him, seeing how those guys, those guys are constant professionals. You cannot, you can be better by us most as being around those two guys. So I expect him to do the same. I think he's hungry for this year. You know, he wants to show that he was a full-time financial player. You know, he had so many good experiences the past two seasons. So, you know, expecting big things, but never take anything for granted. He's worked hard this summer. He's going to come in and earn it. And, you know, it's going to be really fun to watch. I mean, last year was a unabashed success for the Savers, right? The winning, getting back into playoffs, the run they had. I think playing a fun brand of hockey that was very easy to get excited about. And then finally giving a very passionate fan base, something I actually cheer for, and you kind of saw that all come together. I'm curious for your take in maybe some conversations you had, because I think some rhetoric coming out of it was the perception of Buffalo as a landing spot for players, right? And that market and previously over the past decade or so, obviously it had been featured pretty frequently on no trade lists in terms of the reluctance to go there, being stuck in a losing situation, all the stuff that comes with it. We just spoke about the importance, I think, of winning for players and kind of seeing proof of concept of that. I guess the only one real example we have so far that's been reported on is it seems like Connor Halibuk and the trade talks they were engaged with around the draft was willing to go there, which I would view as a win for them in terms of that being the case. I'm curious for your take on kind of like how that stuff comes together, because obviously trade lists are filed or rearranged on an annual basis. It's going to maybe take more than one year after whatever, 15 or so years of the situation they were in to undo all of that, but I think it's obviously a step in the positive direction. Kind of what your take is on how that comes together and obviously changing, I think that image and perception lead wide where all of a sudden it becomes a destination player is actually want to go to because they can win and be successful, but also I think have fun and put up offensive stats that there are forwards specifically. Yeah, I think the key thing for the guys from watching it from a far and a little bit closely that they really enjoyed winning. The camaraderie was real, the group was, you could tell they were really tight. And at the end of the day, winning is the only thing that matters. When you're dealing with high-level athletes, that has to be that commitment to winning. And most importantly, I think you have to enjoy it. I could point to a couple of teams maybe around the league where they're successful. But it's too medicinal. It's not maybe a natural winning. They're winning cost to have a lot of good players. But there's maybe too much pressure on them, and it's not as much fun. And for Florida Panthers, I've been telling them at the very beginning before they turn things around. That winning is the only thing that matters. You can get second and third tier free agents, and maybe you'll make a marginal improvement. But to really be great, you have to draw players from all over the league. And that's what winning does. You can be happy. A hockey player, I believe, will be happy anywhere if they're enjoying the environment. And I just think winning together with those 20 guys, and then you are all together and not standing up forever, is really hard to understand. It's the thing that separates our sport. You're immortalized on a trophy. It doesn't happen anywhere else. So I just think winning and enjoying it are the most important things for a franchise. Do you think we'll see an increase or decrease moving forward in the prevalence of trade protection and deals, right? Because I think for a time there, it was wielded by teams as an asset or a perk to keep the money down during the flat cap environment so that they could retain all their players. And I think it clearly got maybe a bit out of hand in terms of them being handed out like candy to players that they wound up regretting. Doing so, and we've seen the result of that for a couple of organizations here recently, do you feel like some of that is going to result in maybe being a bit more judicious in the hand out of them? Do you feel like now that the cat's out of the bag in a way? Like everyone is going to want one? How do you sort of see that playing out now that theoretically at least there's more money available? And so you can offer it without necessarily having to give that up as part of the deal. I think no movement and no trades, modified no trades have become like oxygen in the business. Everyone's expecting it. So again, I think the elite players will be able to kind of dictate the next tier. We'll get some sort of protection. And I just think every player with some degree of leverage will get some-- whether it's 7 teams or 10 teams, why not? Again, Raster's change, winning changes. If you have a group that you're trying to get the most out of them for the rest of their careers, look at it being like Los Angeles, pretty old Raster. So a lot of those guys want to be there. So I just think everyone's expecting a no trade or no move. You just need to figure out to what extent and how much you want to go with it. I want to talk with William Eclan a little bit. Now, last time I had you on last year, I think we spent a lot of the show talking about and you had some fascinating anecdotes in terms of how that three-year extension he signed with San Jose at the time came together, why he sort of preferred that, how that all sort of coalesced. He gets traded to Ottawa this summer, as you spoke about previously with the senators pivoting pretty quickly in the aftermath of the Brady Conchuck trade. I believe less than 48 hours passed between those two deals. And there was very minimal reporting on it publicly. It just came together out and over on that one day when all hell broke loose and there were four or five trades in the same afternoon. How did that come together from your perspective, I guess, because Eclan, by nature, of being an RFA when he signed and being in his RFA years did not wield any trade protection, so I imagine it was easier to maneuver. But just sort of how that happened, then obviously, I think the adjustment it takes from being in a spot, the team that drafted you to all of a sudden now, taken a bit of a step back and then realizing that, all right, it's a change for me, but it's in a pretty good spot where it might be playing on the left wing with Tim Stutsla and playing on a similarly fun, young ascending team and being in a pretty good spot despite the trade. - Yeah, like I said before, it was unexpected, but the market was so crazy around draft time and leading in to July one. Mike Greer told me he wasn't looking to move him, but then I think when Bowen Byron became available and teams were at the point where they needed to make their best offers to Buffalo, he tried to do something to make that happen, obviously it didn't work out. But Willem, he's going to a place, he has a really good buddy there of Fabians, I don't know. So that makes it a little bit easier. And then once the emotion wears off and you take a look at the rosters and the people in that organization, I think it's a very, you know, player friendly organization, Steve Stiles, played a long time and speaking with him, I think he really understands the modern day player. You know, I think Travis Green is a very, you know, down the middle, very fair coach. You give it to me, I'll give it to you. You know, give me everything you have and you'll have the ice time. So I think it's going to work out for all parties. You know, obviously they made the playoffs last year and hopefully they'll do it again this year. And a lot of ways, you know, it's a more complete lap than San Jose is. There was a lot more, he can spread the depth of scoring, a lot more there and, you know, young and some pretty good defenseman there. So I think it's going to work out for everybody. - Yeah, I'm curious your take on 'cause another trade, when your clients this summer was the balance you can trade to Columbus and that one was maybe less surprising, just kind of looking at the reality of Colorado situation with needing to clear some money out to restructure their blue line and make all the pieces fit. Now he did have some sort of trade protection, right? I think it was a 12 team list, it seems like Columbus was an honor kind of how that comes together then. Obviously not having necessarily maneuver about it, but at least sort of the checks and balances, I guess, of the process of like checking the list, seeing how it goes on and then sort of that sell going from a spot that he was clearly very successful in and winning the cup and earning that contract in 2022, to now going to a place in Columbus where it's an ascending organization. There's a lot of fun players, but also, I think someone's certainty with everything that's happened this summer was Zach Orinsky and kind of how that all sort of shakes out for the future for him. - Yeah, like I said, you know, you have 12 teams, you can only pick 12 teams. But Columbus is an interesting team, a lot of good young talent. I think they're right there to be in the playoffs, hopefully the young goalie there are, Jack Reeves continues to play the way he played last year and they'll get some good games out of Miss Leakens as well. But it's gonna be interesting. It's 84 games, it's a lot of hockey. If the roster can stay healthy, there's no reason why it can't be a playoff team. Again, it's a team that is gonna have to need to get comfortable with some cricket numbers that I think that maybe they don't have in the past, they haven't had that comfort if they wanna keep the core together. So I think for them, winning is very important to try and convince guys to stay there, to show the commitment. Rumor is that they got their own team plane for the upcoming year and the future. So that may be helpful for some guys or in the past that they had a lot of issues traveling. So you never know what, like I said, if the team can get into the playoffs and show itself well, that may change players' minds and how they view it as a long-term fit. Good coach, a guy who seems to get, obviously he's been around a long time and seems to get the most out of his line-ups. So I think it's interesting to watch, but again, gonna have to get comfortable with bigger numbers, otherwise the players are gonna dictate how things are gonna happen. - Undoubtedly. The final player that I wanted to talk about with you is Daniel Boot, who comes over North America last year. The coyotes take him 12-0 roll in 2023. He spends his deep plus one and deep plus two seasons playing in the KHL. He winds up being a pointer game or roughly that round there in the AHL in his first year here. Gets the 29 games in the NHL under his belt as well. I think I'm incredibly excited to see more of him. I'm curious for your day, I guess, on the opportunity to sort of stick with the mammoth as an everyday player this season, right? Because they got their first taste of playoff action last year. [BLANK_AUDIO] team that was very active this summer, not only acquiring Anders Lee and Vincent Trocheck retaining Baron Hayden on that offer sheet attempt have made a bunch of high picks on forwards the past couple of years as well. So there's undoubtedly a log jam there. But at the same time, a very intriguing player in a pretty good spot, if you can make the team this year and kind of what that sort of looks like where he's similarly, depending on how this year goes, becomes extension eligible again at summer and that's a recurring theme here where that's something I think anyone paying attention to the league is moderating very closely with everything we've seen with offer sheets and teams trying to kind of get ahead of this and be maybe more proactive with these extensions and they were previously. Yeah, I mean, this seemed like a constant hilarious, you know, Daniel Boot, you know, would, you know, don't focus on the contract, you know, focus on, on, you know, bringing it every day, whether it be in practice or during the game and executing what the coach is looking for you. You know, Daniel, you know, for him, you know, obviously was a huge change in culture and hockey last year. You know, being the point of game in the AHL, I think is, you know, tremendous for him and getting those 29 games is just going to benefit him more. He understands what it's about now. He had the opportunity to watch, you know, and be around great players and see what it takes and also to, you know, learn the tricks of playing on a smaller ice surface, whether it's less room to hide and how you have to use your body and position yourself in front of the net being, you know, six six, and then whatever, 220, 230 pounds. So it was a lot to digest. You know, he's also a really hard worker, really committed to getting better, really focused. So again, it's going to be a really interesting, you know, to watch him this season and and consta and, you know, also guys, you know, like Tom Hollander, really interested also to see what he's going to do in Vancouver. And then how guys doing the second year, you know, it's really defining a point of the career. So, you know, can't wait for the season to start. It's going to be an exciting one. I'm very excited to have Alexander Barkov back in our lives on a day-to-day basis, obviously coming off of an upsetting year last year for me personally and not getting to watch and play on a nightly basis, but based on what we saw from the world championships, I think, going to come back in full for us. I don't know, do you have any notes on on that in terms of just last year in general for the Panthers and kind of looking ahead this year, because I think they've been positioned as the Stanley Cup favorite yet again, I think understandably so with the amount of talent they have on their team, the fact that we haven't seen anyone beat them at full health in a couple of years. Yet at the same time, everyone sort of treating it as a one-off, I think, where it was a gap year for them, everyone got heard. And Barkov's injury was on the on the fluke side in terms of when it happened and how it happened. There's some other ones maybe where, you know, there's some attrition for players getting up there in age. So, it's not something I want to necessarily take for granted either, but it's going to be a fascinating spot in terms of them trying to sort of prove the last year was a one-off and kind of reclaiming their crown this season. Yeah, certainly. I mean, when people talk to me a little bit about, you know, the East and teams and what they're going to do this year and a lot of times my answer to them is NBY was a non-Barkov year. You know, so it's going to be different to this year and obviously, you know, we hope he's he's going to be able to play 84 games and four rounds in the playoffs. I think the most dangerous thing is that is one motivated group. You know, I think they, you know, can accomplish, you know, more than ever. The forward group is deep, you know, Bill Zito and his staff done another tremendous job of putting together that that fourth line and even guys passed number 12 forward. You know, they're really deep up front. You know, they've he's done a good job and, you know, getting Raiko Agudos back here. Also, you know, having to fill Bob's shoes and, and you know, the emotional loss of him. You know, I think those goalies will do well here. You know, they do really get to work with the gold tending, expect a lot out of Markström and also a Schmid. But I think the scariest thing is how motivated that group is going to be because we all know, you know, what they've done in the past and how motivated they would have been to try and win three cups in a row and and not having that opportunity. I think it's, you know, the, the biggest motivating factor. Well, it should be an incredible season. And I'm looking forward to the potential of a rematch of Hurricanes Panthers in a prospective Eastern Conference final. And that's a good, uh, good segue here. We didn't really get to talk about such a call of much, but you were telling me before we went on the air that you are after we finished recording this tomorrow you're heading over for his day with the cup to celebrate his own individual and the team accomplishment. Next year and, you know, sources are saying these are the, uh, the two most exciting days of your offseason Todd being on the PDO cast and then going and celebrating the cup two equally important accomplishments. So, uh, a big couple days ahead for you. Yes, I'll have a big smile on my face, uh, going into the weekend. All right, buddy. Well, this was awesome. Thank you so much for coming on, making the time for us catching up. This has to become an annual tradition for us. So I look forward to having you on again next summer. Yeah. Thank you very much. Let me show you all the best. Oh, right. There you have it. Part one of this year's summer series is in the books. Thank you to Todd Diamond for helping us kick off this year's edition for the second straight year. We'll have at least a couple more really fun interviews coming for you over the next couple weeks. We've got Dan Muse. We've got Brandon Dylan, Scott Wedgewood joining us as well. After that, I'll certainly get some GMs on for their perspective as well. We're still working on, on the details for those and sorting that out. So it's TBD for the time being, but at least a couple more really fun interviews coming. The summer series also marks the return of this feed. Apologies for the hiatus on here since early July. We had to wait for the show's partnership with SportsNet to expire before we could resume posting shows on here. So that's why we went away for a bit. Now that we're live again, I'll be rolling all of these interviews out for you to listen here. 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It's going to allow us to do some really cool stuff this season. If you haven't subscribed yet, but you've been considering it, I'd strongly recommend pulling the trigger doing so now. We're going to be raising the monthly subscription price on September 1st to account for all the extra content and perks we're providing on there so you can lock in the current discount price for yourself this season by subscribing before then. My last plug here today is the PDO cast YouTube channel. We're going to be posting more shows on there this season as well so you can watch along with us. We've already got a handful of the episodes we've done this summer up there and there's plenty more coming and don't worry the extended cuts of the player makes tapes that the channel has become known for. We'll still be a regular feature on there as well. Alright, that's all for today. It's good to be back on here. We'll see you soon with more summer series interviews shortly. Thank you for subscribing and for listening to the Hockey PDO cast. [Music].