Summer Pet Wellness: Keeping Your Pets Cool And Mobile | SOP Ep. 126 - Dr. Kelly Fishman

Welcome to Speaking of Pets! I'm Dr. Allison Avatt-Nichoroman, a board-certified veterinary dermatologist, and I'm not. I'm Janet Novatt-Nichor, the Dr. Sister of Podcast co-host, pet owner, rescuer, and lover. We're here to provide pet owners with science-based information to help them be the best pet parents they can be. Here's today's episode. Create a just for you and your pets. Today's episode is sponsored by Dr. Tim's pet food. Learn more at DrTim's.com. Hey, everyone. Welcome to the show. It's hot, it's smoky, and our pets are fine to quarters. So what do we do? I mean, you know, they get stiff just like we get stiff. So we've asked our favorite veterinary medicine rehabilitator, I'm sorry, veterinary sports medicine and rehabilitation specialist. Dr. Kelly Fishman, to join us today because we want to talk about summer wellness. How do we keep these pets healthy when they have to stay inside because they can't walk? It's too hot. What about hydration? What about treadmills? Are there any supplements we can give them? So this is our summer wellness special with our favorite rehab person, Dr. Kelly Fishman. Welcome. And you're a two-fer, right Janet? She's a two-fer. You get like the paw print jacket. Oh, I'm excited for that. So I'm really happy to be back because I love talking to you ladies about, you know, dog arthritis and dog wellness and prevention and fitness and muscle health because I'm not sure if you know, but like this is the hot topic right now. Everybody's thinking about dog fitness and dog strength and rehab and I'm just super happy to be in the middle of it as our little area of veterinary medicine, which is, as you said, sports medicine and physical therapy, you know, what was barely a thing, you know, 10 years ago when you graduated from vet school. You know, I don't know, Dr. Alice, like if they've been talked about it when I graduated in 2014, it was just starting to take off. You know, when I went to F, we did have a clinical rotation that was incorporating the early bits physical rehab and sports medicine. But, you know, before that, it was just integrated medicine or acupuncture. It wasn't really a wolf, you know, field and now, like, you know, not to go on too much tangent. But, you know, dogs are thinking about arthritis, prevention, just like you'd think about vaccine prevention, like preventing disease. And so it's really incredible and super excited to be back and talking to you and just talking about dogs. And picturing all the labor doors going like this. I don't want to hear, I just want to lie here. Yeah. And you know, Janet, it's interesting what Dr. Kelly said, because it seems like pets are living longer. And there's a lot to attribute that to, but if we don't work on their muscle health, so what if they live longer if they're frail and don't want to move? I mean, good quality of life goes along with this rehab and motility or mobility, motility too. Yeah, it's true. You know, it's, yeah, definitely is true. And it's, it's all about, you know, health span. And like, that's exactly what you said. It's, it's not how long you live. It's how well you live. And with something like arthritis, just to continue on that tangent, you know, we're going to talk about like summer heat, you know, injury and wellness and all that sort of thing. But, you know, thinking about arthritis, like that's actually a young dog disease and it's something that we should be preventing. And what you do is if you start young with your labor door that may have arthritis later on, like they have a better lifespan and health span. They live longer and they feel better and they're doing all the things that they all the fun dog stuff they love to do, which is not listen to. You know, like you said, it'll put their ear plugs on and listen to me talk about arthritis. They won't be outside chasing balls, like looking at squirrels, like doing their, their, their stuff, you know, like doing their dog stuff. So really is about like their health span, how they feel, how they move all that. So you have to start this before you see them limping, correct? This is more of a preventative thing. So now what they're doing, like now the new thing that I've just recently learned is that what what we're trying to do in veterinary medicine is first of all break the myth that arthritis is an old dog disease. It actually is a young dog disease and dogs that are predisposed to arthritis because it's a lab. And then we know that they have dysplasia, which is like, you know, the joints don't necessarily match up in their hips and in their elbows that leads them to arthritis. You know, dogs that are large breed dogs and are really active. You have a big, you know, mastiff and you want to do agility. It's just hard on his joints or even your baby, your city person and you run your dog or bike with your dog on concrete and asphalt all day because that's the only surface. Like you can, you can work on. So those dogs are actually really at risk. And now what we're trying to do is rehab best is actually kind of, you know, say, okay, you're due for your vaccines. And that's preventing parvo and that's preventing board is hella that's preventing disease like, but do you know you should also be your risk for arthritis and like we should be preventing that too. And now we have always like the iris stating system for dogs and cats that have kidney disease. We have that same sort of thing for dogs with arthritis called cups. So yeah, it's it's something we could talk about because I think it's it's really cool. But yeah, like it's it's interesting. Just the changing mindset is really fascinating. Tim's pet food. Learn more at drtimz.com. But I think we should get back to summer because we're in heat of it. So and you know, we've got this whatever you call the Canadian wildfire stuff going on around us. And yesterday I was thinking about like I'm letting the dog out. My son is here and he goes, well, I don't think we should let the dog out. And I'm like, well, she's got to go. So can you do anything? I mean, I can't put a mask over that muzzle over her. I mean, it's not going to work. Yeah. So, you know, I don't know about the smoke inhalation part, you know, that part I don't know. But I know here we're getting that same smoke and we're also getting these same hot in human days. And one of the things you got to really work like worry about with dogs like looking at like when do they get like heat stroke and what's more risk. And it's actually like a heat index. So like a heat index is like when you take the temperature and then you add it to the humidity. And like I was listening to my radio. And you know, they're like, Hey, like the heat index is going to be over 103. And people know, you know, just so you guys know, like the doctor was saying this like don't do a lot of outside activity because like. Yeah, we're getting like overheated. And then I was about dogs to be had the same number and that heat index is actually 150. So doctor better than us. And again, more tolerant. But you know, we did they actually are able to, you know, manage some of the humidity more than us, but they are still susceptible to it. And if that heated index number, for example, is over that 150 number, which is the temperature plus the humidity, like you're actually not supposed to be exercising your dog outside. So the smoke heart, I don't know about, but I do know that number of 50 or like you should you should be taking short walks. You should be staying inside. You should be checking the asphalt or the concrete to make sure it's not hot for your dog, like from that, like that point of view, like the exercise, like dogs are at risk for getting increasing like the risk of heat stroke if they are exercising. So then I think a lot of parents don't know that. Yeah, they don't and I always say this they have on a fur coat. Yeah, you know, it just makes me hot looking at them. And you know, when I walk I walk early in the morning, like it's seven and a lot of the dog walking people are out there. And I love that because I can't stand when there's like a big community picnic at two in the afternoon and people bring their box. And I don't see any water in sight. Yeah, yeah, yeah, you know, it's one of those things like it's like they don't like the dog probably doesn't want to be there either, you know, right. I don't know like what are these pet what are these pet wellness products, these summer products like I don't know what what is this water. Yeah, Janet was asking me about what the what the heck yeah, I don't know about that Kelly. What do I need? So I bought battery power. Yeah, no, no, it's not it can be, but like basically it's to the theory is that dogs are drawn to water that's moving. And that's because when in nature, like if you're going to go pick a clean water source, like you want to pick something that is moving rather than like a big stagnant pond. So people develop these water bowls that recreate like a moving water. So you know, it's just like a water fountain. Yeah, I probably for my cat. I was not looking at them now online. Yeah, yeah, you know, it's one of those things like there's I don't know if you ladies have noticed it, but on social media, there is just been such an explosion of just stuff. And I'm not sure if it's because AI is making a bunch of like products or they're making fake veterinarians recommend those products or what, but it's like I turn on my phone. It's like I'm eating with like, there's like 200 serums for us. Like I need these serums. But that's about the moving water. Yeah, that really does. And there's designer ones. I mean, there's like a whole plate. I had no idea this even existed. Yeah. Yep. Wow. Here's something we love about Dr. Tim's pet food. Every formula starts with a question. Does this actually help the animal not just look good on a shelf? Dr. Tim has spent decades as a working vet. And that experience shows up across the entire product line. Whether your dog is a little overweight and needs a healthy balance food to help shed a few pounds, or could be a picky eater who won't touch their breakfast without Dr. Tim's vagabond freeze-dried toppers, or just a regular couch companion who deserves real nutrition in every bowl. Speaking of pets is committed to bringing you science-based information and partners that align with that mission, and Dr. Tim's is a great example of nutrition done right for every pet, not just the athletic ones. Head to Dr. Tim's pet food to find the formula that fits your pet's life. Hey everyone, don't forget to pick up Country Critter Journal if you live in Northeast Ohio. It's a must read for all pet lovers. Their goal is similar to ours here at the podcast, to educate the community on taking care of pets. They're advocates for adopting from shelters, not puppy mills, and they connect our local communities with goods, services, kennels, and those seeking to adopt a pet. They're a hometown paper with a personal touch, a must read for all pet lovers, Country Critter Journal. What about any, are there any kind of supplements that we can use preventatively? Like I've got a five-year-old and six-year-old golden, and I notice that Gidget jumped off the bed, and ever since then she's kind of been favoring. And I'm like, well, I don't want to put her on a non-steroidal. I really don't. I would rather do something like fish oil or something else. What do you think, Kelly? Absolutely. So, you know, again, thinking about what do we do for dogs, and thinking about arthritis and orthopedic issues. And maybe she's living because she's golden, and she does have a little bit of, you know, I'm not sure where her limb was, the front leg or back. It doesn't matter, but maybe she has a little bit of arthritis that's brewery in there. Or it was a true injury, right? But either way, like the treatment is kind of the same, and the treatment is really, what can I do? I know this is probably going to get worse as this age is whatever it is, right? Because it's probably not, it hasn't gotten better. So, you know, it's really going to get worse. So, what do we do now? Okay, well, you could, you know, if you have all the money in the world insurance, and you're one of these people who wants to know everything, go and go to the specialist, the surgeon, and scope the elbow, and get a CT, get an MRI, get an ultrasound, and that's really good for some people because like maybe they're the type of person that wants to go above and beyond with their animal, and they have the means and time to do that. Or like maybe you're, you know, someone who, you have a good agility dog or a hunting dog, like, you know, there's a reason that they need to be really sound, but like you're probably like, you know, you're a veterinarian, like you're probably like 80% of people, which is like, I just don't care what it really is, like as long as it's like cancer, just like tell me what to do to make my dog, like, comfortable, and like, just slow this down a little bit, because first of all, hearing that this is a lifelong thing, and like he's never gonna maybe be 100%, like whatever your diagnosis is, even if it is arthritis, or an injury, unless you do surgery, you may not fix it. So, what can I just do to make him feel better, and like really kind of slow this down, and you know, it's something that I would pick too, and I would say to you, like, yeah, joint settlement is like, fish oil, like, you know, that's been such a proven thing, to like help slow down the progression of arthritis. Someone described it as like, you know, when you have fish oil, you're kind of cooling down the joints. Like someone, you do things that look like pepper sauce in your joints, and like, what the fish oil does, is it just changes it to like a different type of pepper that's not so hot, so that's what I do. And then how would your muscle supplements, like, you have to, because you know, first of all, we have muscle supplements now, and the oldest, and I guess most evident space, so the one with the most evidence behind it, meaning that, you know, we have studies and dogs, we have studies and cats, showing that this supplement works, is a tropin, which is found in the myos pad, which I use myself, I prescribe myself, like I am, you know, that's, you know, I'm a big believer. Are you taking the chewable for yourself? I'm just kidding. No, it's a power. Oh, okay, good. Yeah, no, it's great. I mean, what is it called? So the human, the human version is yolk, yolked. So like, Y-O-L-K is-- Okay. Yeah, I actually put my feet on it too. It was like, and I described it as like, so in seniors, they found that this maintains muscle mass in muscle condition, and then he was like, you think I'm a senior? I was like, I was going to sell. Are you calling him a senior? I'm a senior, and I'm going to send for it as soon as this is over. Yeah, so you can find it on Amazon. But there's a dog version in the dog, it's called the myos pet, and-- Okay. M-Y-O-S. Okay. And I could get all into it and get all nervous if you want. But basically, what it does, it's a fertilized egg yolk supplement, which is cold processed. So you meet pain, all the wonderful bioactive properties of fertilized egg yolk, which I always think back to like, you know, I don't know why I have it in my head, but like in the 1950s, like, TV shows, like they were always jerky, like, I'd see like a young guy, like jerky, like, eggs, yolks, egg yolks, every morning. Wacky. Prost-yacchee. Yeah, crocky, of course, like, I should know that because they live outside Philadelphia. But you know, it's like, it prevents muscle loss as you age, you know, that's true in people. We have evidence in people, evidence in dogs. It prevents muscle mass, you know, as like-- you know, as a dog is recovering from an injury or surgery. And so it's a no-brainer. If I had a dog like yours, like, I would immediately say joy supplements, muscle supplements, because if you could support the joint with strong muscle, you're also getting like a lot for that joint. Like, the joint supplement is only going to make the surface more healthy, but it's not going to do anything to like stabilize it. You know, you have to stabilize it with muscle. And you get that with nutrition. And you get that with movement and exercise. So I would do those things. And I would keep your dog really thin. Like, that's the one that people always forget. And like, that's the number one is what is joy supplements, muscle supplements, keep your dog thin. And that whole thing I was talking about before was like, you know, how we're thinking about prevention now and taking a puppy with arthritis? Like, that's the guidelines. Like, that's all the event has to say. Like, those are the things that you should do. So I'm going to start both of them on the Myos Pet as-- because I believe a lot in preventative medicine. And yeah, OK, Gidgett, you know, hurt herself. But the other one does have any problems yet. But if I can prevent something, Janet, I'm sorry, I didn't mean to interrupt. No, no. So I'm thinking about we're talking about exercising your pad and all that. So they found in humans that you can start weight training at a senior age and exercising at a senior age and it will improve your health and a mature age. No matter when you start, it's a good thing, right? Is that the same with dogs? Because you're not going to make a cat exercise. I guess the cats are a wildcard. But, you know, dogs are a fear because they want treats and they want love from us. So we can kind of motivate them more. And they love exercise. Like it's funny because most of my dogs love working out. They really love it. Like on the treadmill or you mean outside? Wow. On the treadmill outside, you know, I think that dogs were-- I think modern dogs are probably a bit bored because they spend most of the days inside. I agree. And they go in 10 minute walks and they go to the dog park. And they're up there and everything. Any time. So I agree with you. I think they're bored. Yeah. I think that's why we have behavioral problems. I think that's why we've so much separation anxiety. Because like, as your dog stays home as you leave to go to the work for the day, they're like, oh god, I'm going to be home all alone. What do I do? Let's all rip down the trim around the doors. Yeah. Because I'm very crazy because I was, you know, I'm a, you know, a Labrador. And I, you know, 100 years ago, Labrador's where they would have spent their day with their, you know, pet pair in the fields, like doing a job or a border collie. I feel so scared for the hammer. Yeah, I wasn't tending to sheep. And now I'm here. Yeah. In the cage. Same. Yeah. Tim's pet food. Dr. Tim's vagabond freeze dried toppers, or just a regular couch companion who deserves real nutrition in every bowl. Speaking of pets is committed to bringing you science-based information and partners that align with that mission. And Dr. Tim's is a great example of nutrition done right. for every pet, not just the athletic ones. Head to. Dr. Now Janet, along with what Janet takes, so if we're exercising no matter what age of the dog, but like she brought up senior dogs, and you think they're overheated, how do I cool them down? Yeah. So it's a great question. So you have to, because you know, Dr. Alice, like, knows this Janet, I don't know if you do, but like, dogs cool down by panting and then also by opening up the blood vessels in their skin. And that is a really bad way to cool yourself down. It's actually really inefficient. They should just sweat like we do and they don't. So what that means is that you have to help them cool their body down in order to help them relieve themselves of that excess heat. And the best way to do it is actually to take room temperature water, not ice water, not cold water, no temperature water, hose or dog off, and merge them in a pool. You know, you're supposed to do this, not just for like a second, but like, you're supposed to do it for, you know, 20 minutes, 30 minutes, put a pen on them or put them in the AC. And that's what you're supposed to do, you know, I recently was working, not working, but I took a course with the University of Pennsylvania at Working Dog Program and Dr. Otto, we head around the show. Yes. We love Dr. Otto. She's really great. So I took her class and she educated me a ton and everything and one of the things that she did and why she's so cool is that she actually established the head-dunking method to relieve heatstroke and dogs. And what this says is dogs use to get gallon of water and the dog dunk their head and she actually wrote that their core body temperature dropped within a few seconds, you know, or a minute. I can't remember the exact time. So please, I just let that up and so it's correct to me, but it was really quick. But the only thing is, like, you had to have previously taught your dog like the head-ducky. You can't just also do like, you're like, you're pretty, you're really hot. It's an emergency, dunk your head, but your dog said, look at you, like you're trying to drown them. So you have to like, you know, if you have a puppy or if you have a young dog, like, I would teach that to head-dunk and actually it's a good way to like flush out their eyes, like flush out their nasal cavity. So like, if you're a GP, someone comes to you and, hey, maybe like we're just talking about when we started, like, it's a smoky day. Like, my dog has to go on a walk, like, they can back in their seizing and their eyes are a little bit gritty because my air quality index is 250, and you can be like, oh, I guess you should have taught them this head-duck because the dog, when they dunk their head, they blow bubbles and they replenate their sinuses and they flush their eyes. So maybe that's something that, you know, we could have, I could have thought of. I'm laughing because my kids at summer camp, they taught the young capers, they would literally take water bottles on the kids' heads when it was high. Oh, yeah. You know what I mean? And I remember else, the 4th of July on Santa Ball, I was dying. It was like a 120 degree. Yeah, it is. And I was like, taking the free water bottles, like, just, it was so hot because it does work. It cools you down, like, instantly. Well, what are these cooling pads that they make? Are those worth the hype or no? So the more, I think the more it's keep a dog cool. So I have my cat parents, who have pugs, a lot of pugs here, all the more. Put them over heating. Like, I don't know what it is, but it's like when you get a pug, you get an instant fear of your pug or a heaping, which I respect because they know their dogs, they know their dogs. But, you know, they will use those things to keep their dog cool. Now, it's not going to prevent, like, that's not powerful enough to, like, lower your body's temperature. You know, I say it, like, listen, like, I'm going to go for a walk. I'm going to either, you know, I'm going to bring with a little fan with me to, like, fan myself. And if you're a kid, you're going to pour water in yourself. I'm too worried about my hair. I'm too vain. But, you know, I won't do that, but I'll do that. So maybe for my dog, like, as a way just to keep you cool, like, you do a little cooling pad. Is it like a frozen thing? No, it's usually not frozen because the frozen ones, I think the frozen ones, like, tend to not work better. But I've seen them as, like, almost like, a vest, and I've seen them also as pads that the dog that sits on, and where do you put it in the fridge, is that how it gets cold? Or it's like a chemical one, sometimes it's like, yeah, they, like, have some kind of, like, ability to stay cold, or I don't know, like, some kind of chemical in them. Um, which, I guess, the only reason you'd be worried if you had a bigger dog is, like, if that bigger dog tries to, like, tear his head or choose, 'cause I've seen that, that two-word, like, dogs, like, big labs or cold ends have, like, you know, scraped, scraped it and opens up, and it makes a huge mess. Oh, the chemical. You know, what the popularist Frenchies are now, gosh, that's really a scary thought. How fast they can overheat. Yeah. Is that just part of the breed? Well, you know, they're pushed in face Janet, we talked about that, and they can't cool off effectively. Oh. And I see them, you know, like, at the town fair, and, you know, or walking at the park in the afternoon, I'm like, oh, my god, you people are crazy for doing this, 'cause they don't know better. I know. Do you ever say anything to Kelly when you're out and about? No, no, no, I don't say anything, because I once, I was really embarrassed one time, because I was with a group of my friends, and I saw a dog, I was like, oh, my gosh, this dog's body condition score is really high, like, your dog is really obese. And then all my friends around, like, I was walking with a group of, like, they're touching me. Oh, my god, you're going to get me in a fight. Like, this is really a good goal. So you know, when I'm out of the street, like, I see, like, this, I see lay this all the time, you know, I see, let me ask you this question, a fellow walker asked me, and he adopted a black lab pit mix, and it was young, and it was already limping on the front, right front, which already informed him about, even though I don't know this guy, he asked me, he, it's a three mile walk, and he does it twice, is that too much to walk a puppy? So we actually, in with the rehab world, do you have puppy specific guidelines? Okay. It's, and they're kind of more like how high you jump them. So really? Yeah. Okay. So there's a whole thing that, like, you can look up and kind of go down that rabbit hole. And I say rabbit hole, because it's a huge, like, pretty, there's a lot of different things, like jumping and, you know, all that sort of stuff. But, you know, in general, like, it's fur because arthritis or, you, orthopedic stuff, like, depending on what it is, like, and that dog could have, like, OCD in its elbow, right? OCD is like, maybe a little pisa cartilage is in the elbow when it's like, that just needs to be removed. So like, the dog, like, the dog shouldn't walk, because every human walks, it's getting, like, a little pebble in the shoe which hurts. So like, he needs to, oh, he needs up, he's a cartilage, chucked out. It could be something like the pano where, or, osteitis where, like, they get, you know, like, and maybe they just exercise through that. Like, so it depends, like, you know, really on the condition, because, well, first of all, I think people are so shocked, like, when a young dog has a limb, because you're like, why? I just got his puppy, like-- I do got this dog, right? Yeah, like, this is the type, like, they're not a lemon, like, I shouldn't have any problems. Like, so I think a lot of times, like, pet parents will, in a way, like, put up a little bit of blinders, because maybe his dog had been seven, he would have been like, oh, I'll take her in, like, because it's plural, but also, like, that's not normal, and a young dog either, like, and, you know, I think, yeah, it's, it is, I mean, I understand it, like, you just got a new puppy, and, you know, you're like, what do I do, should I even be walking in? Like, that's-- But get on. Can you really over-exercise a puppy? I mean, as they're developing, I mean, what's your policy on that? Yeah, so it's just, like, you, like, listen, I don't have any children, but I know people who do, and like, when you play kids' sports, like, things are modified, like, if you play volleyball, like, your net's lower than the adults, right? Like, you play, if you play kiddie's soccer, like, you play with different, like, balls, like, so, we even take, um, human children, and they can do sports, but it's with limitations and with, like, certain changes, and so you know that those, those joints are growing, and you want them to have the best chance to grow in such a healthy way that, yes, like, you should be doing certain things to modify, um, you know, their activity to kind of prevent that. And, like I said, one of the biggest things is not jumping down, um, for high-spaces. There you go. Yeah. So, rather than, like, let's say, even really doing a walk, um, especially if you're really conscientious and you're like, oh, my vet told me to do walks on soft surfaces, um, try to, like, stay off concrete as much as possible. Um, I'm going to try not to play disc golf, you know, or frisbee was my eight-month-old puppy because I know that every time they're jumping down, like, they are creating their joints. So, I kind of think of it more as, like, general, like, things that you just modify rather than, like, walk a length, get it in the mix, I think it's, like, general, like, it are pretty good unless your dogs live being every time they walk. That's bad. I don't, I don't really want to do a walk, but otherwise, like, walks are good. I don't love them because they don't go tons of muscle. That's not good for, like, building muscle, but it's good for their mental health and all sorts of things that the puppy needs. It's funny because a puppy is so busy, right? So, you, as a pet owner, you have this, there's like, oh, my God, get them outside already. Like, they just-- Well, I agree with that, Janet. I think, and, like, when Kelly was saying about behavioral problems, I think if you, it's just like us, if we're cleaning windows and vacuuming all day, we're beat, do you know what I mean? Yeah. That dog that has separation anxiety and hopefully that award off some of the behavioral issues because it's too tired to do anything. Yeah, yeah, I mean that's what the behavior is like it's funny because like when I work when I think about like the other types of veterinary specialists that I work the most with. It's actually behaviorists that work a lot with behaviorists because you wouldn't believe the amount of times that dogs are referred in they've gone through a bunch of trainers. They finally like selected veterinary behaviors which is very hard to find and expensive. And the behaviorist is like you know your dog doesn't have an aggression problem. He's not stepping at little kids where he didn't step with that little child because he's aggressive. He was painful and he was protecting himself. And the parent didn't know he was painful because we don't always think like oh my dog you know sometimes limbs when he comes in but he walks out a bit. And so like it's fine because like most of the time he's fine except for he changes the squirrel or yeah he's thinking his back legs. He can't walk up the stairs anymore but he's just old you know I don't know maybe it's arthritis but like not doing anything. Maybe they're doing a joint supplement which is not enough like again you need muscles supplements and you need pain meds like anyway. So like a lot of times it's a behaviorist kind of behavior cases that are not behavior they're pain. Yeah and that's something that I really you know I work a lot with the behaviorist for absolutely sure so it just killed me when I'm out of my walk and I see people walking a dog that's limping. And I think how would you like someone making you walk you know when you're limping and let's like look at look at this dog it's limping. I mean there's a show cat is it called castle impossible on HDTV and it's a young couple she inherited this castle. They have this white dog it looks like a shepherd mix and it is I don't know if to ask you a circle what because I'm looking at it on TV it is following them limping so badly on that right front it's breaking my heart. I'm like who can I email about this and of course that's probably taped a year ago you know. I think people are just in denial and I think you know that's like I think general vets have a hard. They're they have social hard you know it's very difficult that's hard job and part of it is like you have 15 minutes to 30 minutes to go you know be an ophthalmologist a neurologist worth the penis. I'm also going to be I didn't listen doctor and a cardiologist and I have to like I have two patients because I have the pet the pet pick the pet and then I have the owner so like deal with two different things and then it's late for the appointment. And then they're like can you do a new ultra em and you're like yeah. You know in a dog sitting there like this yeah you can't go like that to it. No and it's you know he's like I'm fine I'm fine doctor he's like I'm going to go to your suit as possible get treats go on my walk until the okay don't bring up my nails. Right exactly like don't look at my lip I'm totally okay like when you go to the doctor or the dentist you're like are you sure it's cavity because I don't really like it. And I think so I think people just don't see it you know and like I think sometimes want to be into now because they don't want anything to be wrong with the pet. I know but still we've got to know that's the mother of two not to go on my tangent again about the coast system and staging but like that's what that's what the new push in rehab is going to be is like we should be screening these dogs as puppies. It's hard to the puppy exam you know just a lot of vaccines like just like everything else like you don't kind of like how the behaviorist again or a bit of high of us like 10 years ago we're talking about let's do. To train your puppy to like nail trims train your puppy to take pills like you mainly not need this now but like when they're older like very happy that you did this. You know as a as a pet parent and a human parent you never want anything to be wrong like even with my son so they say yeah I'm not feeling so I'd be like take an ad fill you'll be fine you know what I mean like. You don't know how much Benadryl on those kids I'm surprised. No no that's that's Hayley my kids didn't do Benadryl. Okay when it comes to feeding our pets we believe in results you can see over hype and that's exactly why we're proud to partner with Dr. Tim's pet food. Dr. Tim Hunt is a practicing veterinarian who spent decades formulating nutrition for every kind of pet from the laid back lap dog to his own I did a ride sled team. Check out Dr. Tim's pet food and see what science back nutrition looks like for your pet they'll have a shiny coat more energy healthy weight and more. Because every great adventure even a nap on the couch starts with a healthy pet hope you're enjoying today's speaking of pets podcast every week we feature a board certified specialist your metallurgy bee oncology internal medicine orthopedic surgery ophthalmology dentistry you name it if it affects pets were on we're here to share some really good information for pet owners practical information that is science space so that you can be a pet owner and have a healthier pet. To learn more about your pets health check out our other episodes wherever you get your podcasts. Kelly I'm curious some of these diets and we won't mentioning if some of these diets that are formulated for joints your opinion on that versus regular diet and then supplementing. So it's a pet parent so if you have a prescription joint support yeah yeah and you have a pet parent with cost restrictions if you have a pet parent who has a dog that will eat fish oil because it's okay because they have can't pay for the tightest because they get diarrhea with it or you know whatever they be doing there's some kind of thing reason that I don't want to supplement like I'll put them on a prescription. Yes diet prescription diets are the ones that have proven levels of omega-3s that are beneficial so that's what we push but that if I if I have a pet parent like myself who's kind of like I actually do more like I could see or I like my dogs food he's doing great on it and I want to feed. I don't want to feed a kibble or a canned food I want to feed you know I've turned it so you know those cases are supplement and ideally you supplement too because you can really control the dose you know a little bit better and you can still back to fish oil. That is sustainable a fish oil that you know is screen for toxins so you know I love doing the supplement route because I have a look you can fine tune things and you could be a little bit more selective with the type of fish oil you put on but it really just depends on the human because they're the ones feeding you know. When it comes to feeding our pets we believe in results you can see over hype and that's exactly why we're proud to partner with Dr. Tim's pet food. Dr. Check out Dr. Tim's pet food and see what science back nutrition looks like for your pet they'll have a shiny coat more energy healthy weight and more because every great adventure even a nap on the couch starts with a healthy pet. That makes sense if that makes a lot of sense I get someone asked me about curcumin and what what are your thoughts on that I mean I know the pro it's the bad part of any supplement is the quality like am I getting a company that is a good quality supplement what is curcumin. Have you ever had like a golden like they call them like golden smoothies or golden milk yeah the T's oh you're not good anyway. I took that when I had lime and it did nothing for the joint pain I'm just saying so that's okay in large amounts it is anti inflammatory right okay but like how is it such large amounts that it's not palliative and there's a recipe like on Google that's been around forever called golden paste and that's a vet or someone who made some kind of golden paste at that therapeutic level and I'll tell you most dogs won't eat it. So is it okay yeah is it something that's nice if you can at that shy levels like yeah that are needed to be anti inflammatory for the joints but it just gets expensive it gets you know some people I would say like 5% of my pet herons rock she's got it okay okay what is the official everybody's doing you know collagen joy supplements okay you know and everybody's doing muscle supplements like that's where people are like that's where people are going rather than the generic I think people realize it's not easy to give it to a dog I had someone asked me about peptides and to be honest with you I didn't know anything about it. Oh no one knows okay good I'm glad you to hear that I have had two pet parents talk to me about peptides and it's always good it always goes like this. My groomer is giving her dog peptides I was like what's it and they're like it's an injection and it's like and I like look it up and I'm like so they're this people are somehow getting, I don't know, whether you've been ordering it, some kind of bio of some kind of peptide that is not even a proof of use in humans or in dogs, and it's not even scary, it's never even been, you know, studying in dogs, never. So we don't even know if it's safe, like you could be giving your dog like an increased risk for cancer. Like, in the human evidence is not there all over the place. If you're in Wichita, it was like someone, like my client was like, why would I start it? And I was like, yeah, but like, what's your dose? If you can find the dose for me and tell me that, I will support it. And she was like, she did, she's like, oh yeah, Dr. Fishman, it's, I can't find that. And I said, yeah, and I said, guess what? Like, and this is my client who's lovely and I have a good relationship with her. So I could talk to her like this. And I said, I was like, why are we, what drew you to this? 'Cause I'm just curious. Like, it's someone who does this for a living. Like, I think about supplements all the time. Like, I work with my O's pet. Like, she has evidence. They've studied like, there's papers. Like, it works in dogs and cats and horses even. But you know, there's evidence before I know. I was like, how, like, what drew you to this? And she's like, the dog reviews said that it helps with, you know, keeping them in their back like weakness. Like, they don't have that as much and it keeps them stronger. I was like, oh my gosh, like, we have been doing this for a year. Like, if you haven't heard about spices, you're doing a rehab, you're doing the myos pet. Like, you are doing the things that we know were. - Yes. - Right. - You're already on it. Like, you don't mean, it's just-- - With the products that are proven to work and are high quality. - Yes. - Yes. - And are not going to potentially like turn your dog. - Right. - So, like, where are these, where are these peptides coming from? I mean, I was reading a thing on the other day. And they are amino acids, 'cause we know that, you know, it put amino acids together, you get peptides. And I'm like, and you're right, I saw pictures of vials. I'm like, from where? - Yeah. - I don't know. - Very scary. - Very scary. - Very scary. - I'm looking on Amazon for fun. - Okay. - We could buy some peptides. - Okay. - So, what's the number one, I kind of think I know the answer. - It's on Amazon. - Is it really? - Is it a vial? - Well, wait, these are reusable injection pens, which just grosses me out for some reason. - Just get the better. - I have the feeling it's obesity. But what is the number one advice you would give people that own a pet with the starting to have mobility problems? 'Cause we want to do the prevention thing, but now if it's too late and they're already having, so where do you start with the weight loss? - Weight loss. - Okay. - Watts. - Okay. - Weight loss because it really is the most proven, 'cause if you do all the rehab, you can do all the muscle supplements, in joint supplements, at exercises, at scoby injections. But if you continue to stress the joints out, it's weight, you know, it's, it's- - And when you're heavy, you don't want to exercise, you know? - And, you know, I didn't learn this in vet school because we were taught this, but I've come to realize that fat is like really inflammatory. So like, it's not just like bad for the joints, but it's like, it's also bad for like your health, you know what I mean? And that was like something that we didn't talk about. I'm sure human doctors learn that, we didn't learn that in vet school. Like I didn't learn that. - But they don't tell anybody that. I mean, the human doctors, they don't tell you that. I mean, anyway, I don't want to get onto that, but they don't, I mean, it's pretty quick, quick get out. Yeah, yeah. - Yeah, but you know what, when you go, like when you go for your annual physical? - Yeah. - They always say to me, they always say, "Your weight's good." Like it's like the first thing. - Oh. - Well, yeah, but if your weight is bad, I wonder if they say that. - That's the thing. - You love compliments. - I do, but I will tell you, my husband, who's still losing a few pounds, they always comment on his weight. - Oh good. Okay, I'm glad to hear that. - Like, you know, for the past 10 years, dude, we've been telling you, you know what I'm saying? - Okay, I'm glad to hear that. - So, and he comes home and goes, I know, I know, I know, I'm like, but you know, Kelly, a lot, you've got admit, there are a lot of dogs that look like their owners. - Yeah. - Oh, I agree. - You know, well, I also think that, I mean, I don't know. - They're not size wise, they're face too. - Oh, yeah, but I'm talking size wise, yeah. - Oh, oh, oh. - I think they're both true, but you know, I think it's also, I don't know, 'cause it's a lifestyle. Like it's all, it's all about overeating. It's about, like, dollics don't get fat. Maybe I guess people can have other things 'cause I'm on a human person, a human doctor, I can't say, but dogs only get fat because they're being overfed. - I get fat. - Right. - You know, so I think that's, and I think it's hard because food is love as well. Dogs love food. Like, you know, like even my cat, like he comes downstairs and he's like, oh, I get a treat for like doing this and he like follows me around. And he's like, me, and then I get a treat and he starts to purge, he's happy. And it's like, so it's like, it is part of the bond and it's super easy to just, I think, overfeed them. But yeah, the number one thing is, is definitely weight loss. And it's the thing that I tell people, I was like, it's the number one thing for not only the joints, but for like other diseases as well. And it's gonna save you money. It's the only time, like, you come to vet and like, I will save you money because you're walk out of here and you're gonna be buying less dogs in. - What do you, do you, are there any foods? Do you, low calorie foods that you would recommend substituting for the commercial dog treats, some of which have a lot of calories in them? - Yeah, so it's, I love, where I was told people, I said, you know, it's one of those things, like your dog needs to want to die it. And if I'm gonna go on a diet, like, I mean, modify things for a period of time, I'm gonna lose weight and then I'm gonna readjust. And so I tell pet parents a good way to do that is to actually feed a prescription weight loss diet because the dog doesn't know he's on a diet because it has, like, less calories. So in a couple of food, it'll have half the calories as the dog's normal. So he's losing weight, he's eating less calories. He was eating 500 and now he's eating 200. But the dog doesn't know he's on a diet 'cause he just ate a couple of food. So he's like, oh, cool, like, my family's not starving me. This is great. I'm gonna say it with them. - Yeah, yeah. - Like, versus they think that you're starving them and, you know, if you really cut the food back, they get upset about it. You can't end at the same time. You've subbed out, you know, you're now feeding them carrots and broccoli instead of those delicious, like, you know, one of those, like, what are the ones that are really high in calorie? Oh, bully sticks, like, are really calorie and like are, like, are surprisingly high in calorie or feeding a little chicken liver freeze-dried chicken livers, which are like 30 calories a pop, you know? - That's the one. - If you're a 50-pound dog. - Yeah. - But, and so, you know, I remember actually, when I briefly worked in GP, I saw a poster that the vet had up in the exam room. And it was, like, they pulled in, like, a donut, like, so basically, it was, like, a meltbow. And it would be, like, two meltbones, like, one donut. - Oh, cool. - I don't know if I would've seen that, yeah. - Yeah, like, people could say, like, oh, wow, like, 'cause people would just think of, the treats are all the same calories. Like, you wouldn't think about, like, oh, if I get, if I just happen to go to the dog's room tired, or the dog pet food store, and I'm like, it's late, and I'm like, ugh, like, that package looks good. That's 30 calories. But I normally grab, like, another brand, like, Charlie Bears, and those are, like, four calories. But, like, oh, look at these two ones. And those are, like, 30 calories, like, totally different than the two calories I was feeding. So I think that's also hard, because, like, the tree companies, like, that calorie formations, like, not really, like, unlike us, like, we have to, like, human foods, like, I have, when I look at a back of the label, I know the calorie content that's gonna be out there. When you go to Chipotle, or wherever, Starbucks, like, everything is, like, you order, and it's like, you're eating this one to calories, and you're like, really, my salad bowl was, not many calories, it's crazy. But, you know, like, like, that's what they need, the dog's sugar tube, but they don't know that, they hide it, because they don't have it. - Oh, right. I bet, I bet if we have 10 pet parents, if they've looked at the amount of calories on the back of the bag, I bet, maybe one. - They'd be like, yeah. - First of all, it's not easy to find for one thing. - Well, and I like the idea of a prescription pet food, because, as a pet owner, I feel a little guilty, like, her regular food, instead of two scoops, she's getting one and a half. - Right. - It'd be more satisfying, as a pet owner, to do the two scoops for less calories. - And also, if you take their regular food, not the weight loss food, but the regular food, and just cut the amount you're feeding, you may not be giving them all the nutrients. - Well, and all the weight loss guys are designed for that. - I give, like, on our walks to give treats. I put the kibble, I bring the little cup of it, 'cause that's what, that was Alice's idea, not mine. - Don't getcha, I tried it. - You can try it. - She tried. - Yeah. - No, we don't have much time left, but cats. Give it some, I know arthritis in cats is kind of a new thing, and I'm happy about it. - I mean, we are actually thinking, hey, that can't jump up on the desk anymore, what's going on? So, what's new with that? - So, it's like my favorite topic, because my cat has this, and I look obsessed with cats. Even though dogs are my life, and my work life, I love, like, kiddies, I love having cats at home. But, so, really, what we know is that, Cat? get way more arthritis than we ever thought. And part of that was, as veterinarians, we are not diagnosing arthritis in cats. So what would happen is your cat would come in or you don't wonder what they'd say, like the cat's gonna look limpine, but cats like are amazing at hiding pain and adapting pain, right? Adapting to pain, because they're a little bit of like they call them predator and prey species, meaning that they can't be a predator. Two things like mice, but they're also prey animal, because they're susceptible to like a coyote, right? So they're both. So they're, when they're like that, if they're, they don't want to show that they're limpine, they don't fight from you. So first of all, it's hard to see it. The person to see it at home, which is the best way for early detection of arthritis and pain, is the peperivol saying, there's something wrong. I want to go to my vet, right? And then they go to the vet and it's kind of frustrating for the veterinarian, because they're like, they're something wrong, but I don't know when. I don't know what lake it is, and it kind of happens all the time. And then the veterinarian's like, great. I don't know to do it that because that's, I can't talk that. I can't be like, all right, like Nelson, like, which my cat's name, like, he's gonna be what hurts, like on a little diagram, like they don't, they're gonna tell me. And at the same time, like cats with a vet and like 90% of them are freaked out, like, there's a very few of them, like that main cone or that orange boy cat that comes in, like, you should have the big head. You know, like, oh, I need to just walk on the scale and I'm going to eat video. I love, you know, I just love being here in the vet. Like, they're not like that. Like, they're all not carrier like this, like, hunched and out and you tell like, and then you touch them, and they're just like, you know, you have like five minutes to see your job. So I think that, like, what happened is like, and then they would like, oh, I think the joint feels fine, like that, or like, I'm gonna take an x-ray and the x-ray is normal. Because back in the day, not back in the day, but what has previously been is that they were taking those x-rays of cats and they were using dog criteria. And the dog criteria for diagnosing OA is different than the cats. So the kiddies actually had OA on that. Our OA is arthritis, sorry, I'll use it. That's okay. A normal term. I'm assuming osteoarthritis. Yeah. I don't know when. I don't want to say OA anymore. But so basically, it's the dog, the cat had arthritis on the x-ray, but it was missed because we were looking at or comparing it to what a dog should look like. And the cat wasn't doing anything. And the pet parent was the only one sitting there being like, I'm just kind of saying wrong. But they're getting out would have helped. Yeah. Yeah. And I think he'll be to show you, oh my gosh, that cat wasn't jumping up to his little cat pose. Like he was using, why does he use a little step stool? Or why is he coming down from his pee? So he's like, leap off thing. This guy's got a lot to leap off things. He's doing like a little stepstown. Or maybe he's like, as he goes up the stairs, like he's really getting pee. So video and like, that's exactly what I tell people to do with kiddies is record, record, record. Tell us who you're seeing in home and that, you know, realizing again that like pain and arthritis and cats, like that's going to be a diagnosis of behavior changes, right? Right. And then also doing the same thing that I would do in a dog omega three fatty acids, the myos pet for the feline, the same supplements. And then if you need to do pain medication, you know, you could do if your cat is a candidate, you could do things like salencia. So it used to be that we didn't even have a lot of good pain medications for cats. You know, they couldn't be on the car person or dog ms ads because it's sick to them long term. So you were really limited with what you could do. I mean, you could do acupuncture, but some cats hate it. You could do laser. They do love that. They love more the, but they lie. They love warming beds, but they can't do exercise. So you're really limited. You know, like cats have make it a little bit more difficult. They're difficult to diagnose arthritis. They're difficult to manage because you don't have a lot of pain medication options. And also you don't have as many known pharmaceutical options to manage pain, like the fitness, like the, you know, other stuff that you can do with dogs, like put it on the treadmill. I think it was sad because in the past, I think they would get a long acting cortisone shot. And sadly, with so overused in cats, and then they became diabetic or had a hard failure later. That's right. And that's the thing is, they're a shot pulling. We're great. That cat pulling felt amazing at home. And you know, that felt great. You're like, I fixed it. Like, you know, it's right around again. It's super excited. But then also it starts to break down their muscle, which is bad. And then it wears off. You know, so it's like they'll accidentally roll off the bed. Be like, they happen to me. Yeah, so we're going to show you what's wrong. Tim's pet food. Until next time, keep asking questions, keep learning and keep loving your pets. You know, that's why the thing is, you know, it's a good idea. Yeah. I'm just curious. The, the, the, say, for example, the myos pets supplement, will cats eat that that you sprinkle on the food? They like it. My cats obsessed with it. Every cat. Oh, good. I like it now. I put Nelson on it because he, so again, how come it is arthritis? He's 12. But when he was about 10, he started to get a little bit gumpy. And I feel really bad because I didn't, I wasn't the one who noticed it. My fiancee noticed it. He's like, I think Nelson's limping. And I was like, oh, you say that. I was like, okay. And I was just going, he's limping. So I, you know, I put him on the myos pet. And it's of topper. And what it is, it's distinctly because it has the, the one I chose it to put him on has also green lip muscle. Oh, Janet, you should look into that. Yeah. So it smells like rotten fish. And it's like, oh, my cat was crazy. Yeah. Yeah. And actually, you know, what else I've learned living also in Pennsylvania that insects go crazy for it. So I have to take it out of the container and put it into like a filled jar because amount of time that I've come downstairs, it amps. Because they're like, yeah. So apparently, answer, why don't you get Jack dubbing? You're like, yeah. So my cat loves it. Every cat patient that I put on it, they love it. And honestly, it's my number while in dogs. Like I always kind of lead with omega three is just because it's just full body. Do you know what I mean? And it's easy to talk to them about because they, they've already know about joint supplements. So I don't typically leave the myos pet. But with cats on the opposite, I was like, myos pet, because most cats will take the soil. Like good luck. What? That. Yeah. I think what? But yeah, but at least get them on myos. And I got Nelson on it. He's been on it for four years. He actually has early kidney disease. He's stage one. And they did a study showing that that the use of myos pet does not worsen their levels of like creating your SDMA. And in fact, I could, I can prove it, not prove it, at least prove with my own cat anecdobly, because he's been on myos pet for four years. And his kidney values have that same thing. Okay. That's good. Yeah. His SD like his creating has improved. Um, so, you know, I use it. And he's really must kill. He's protected. So it's like now, like he is like buff, like I have a buff cat. Is he, is he orange? He's white. Oh, he's white. Okay. Oh, yeah. He's walking around the hood like this. Yeah. Yeah. What's right of the pool? Exactly. Wow. So I think we covered this though. I was going to ask you, what's the biggest mistake pet owners make? And I think, yeah, that's a good question. I think it's weight. Yeah. I would say so. Yeah. Wait. I mean, I'm guessing, right? Because you're not the only veterinarian that has said the same thing. Yes. I think so. Like, I think that, I mean, it's, I like, I'm going to forget the number because I'm not, I always forget like exact numbers, but it's like two out of three dogs in America's obese. Like something like that, you know, it's, it's really high. And I think it's a lot, it's hard for pet parents too, because you even look at AKC guidelines for pug or for a lab. And like the guidelines, which is like AKC's a dog show is all about how the dog looks like. Oh, right. This is like dog beauty pageant, right? Not beauty pageant. More true than that. But like, part of it is. And, you know, part of that is beauty pageant is sort of, you know, maybe you're for humans being really skinny is, is, is these dogs being overweight? Like, they want them to be. Yeah. I agree. You don't really see thin dogs in these kind of club shows. You don't. No. You know, it's funny. I was talking to my friend and I said, sometimes people post like on Instagram, whatever, like a picture from of humans back in like the 40s and 50s. Yeah. Beach. And all the ladies have these teeny tiny waste. And there's no one overweight in those pictures. Like, Missy Gainer and all those dancers. But, but this is just like general public. Like, at the Jersey show, I had a really neat thing on a couple of weeks ago. Why is no one in Japan obese? They eat, they eat till they feel 80% full. Okay. In the schools, they make all the food themselves. They're only allowed to have fried food twice a month. And you know what their dessert was? A quarter of an orange. I could see those oranges being thrown right now. You want that? I was like, I think you're 80%. Okay. Quarter of an orange. No. Don't pick me. Do it. That's not a lie. It was fascinating. And I'm sitting there in throwback because I thought then you go to the store. And you see fat fat fiber people walking around, you know what I'm saying and you look at what's in their cart. Yeah, yeah So anyway, Janet, we gotta wrap it up. I'm telling you this has been love having you on Great, I want to come back and talk about all that coast staging. We could do a quick. All like we can all need to do that It's right. It's deep dive Because we do have even though pet this design for pet parents We do have a lot of veterinarians that listen this and to be honest. I had not heard of that So it's new. Okay, good. Yes, we need to have you back on because I would love personally to hear about that I'm paying attention, but I've got Gidget here. Gidget where are you? You did I can't see you. Oh, anyway, anyway, it's like a half hour massage because I'm a captive audience So she's not with me usually my side kicks with me. I think she's upstairs. Oh, lucky you We have a two-peter guest question. Oh, go. Okay, go ahead. What is your party entrance song? For who me? You oh That's a good one and everybody can rock to that one good one. Good one. Okay, second. Thank you Okay, good Thank you for being on the show. We appreciate you Kelly and yes Thank you listeners for paying attention today. I learned a lot. What to do and not to do in this crazy heat we have in the summer Thanks for listening. Thanks for sharing. Thanks for all your questions that you're sending into SOP podcast dot com and That's it. Thanks for tuning in today. We have Nelson a big smooch for I will and please visit my website strut animal I've all my dog by pigs and then that my I was pet dot com too for anyone That's all that in the show notes. Let's go p podcast dot com. Yeah, awesome. All right, hey you too. Bye everyone Today's episode is sponsored by dr. Tim's pet food until next time keep asking questions keep learning and keep loving your pets Learn more at dr. Tim's dot com. Hey, thanks for watching and listening We like likes. Don't forget to like share and subscribe. You can follow us on social media at speaking of pets and give your pets a big kiss from the Novotny sisters The speaking of pets podcast is an SLA video production