28: Struggling with Alcoholism While Divorcing an Abuser

Hi and welcome back to Beyond the Monsters. Today I have Danielle with us and she's here from New York and we're going to dive into her story. All right Danielle you flew in today right? Did you fly in today or yesterday? This morning. Okay, how was your flight? Easy quick and in out of New York. That's perfect. That usually doesn't happen. I know. I was a little surprised. Yeah that's awesome. Well you know I only know the little bit about your story that when you wrote in and I'm just going to let you go ahead and take over tell your story from where you would like to start. Just dive in. Sure I would love to. Thank you for having me here. Of course. I guess I will start with I grew up in a small town in Pennsylvania very sheltered life. I couldn't wait to get out and as soon as I turned 18 I moved to New York City. That's a big move. Big move. Yeah I was like I'm done with the small town living and I actually applied to two colleges FIT in Parsons and I was very determined and I got into Parsons and moved there when I was 18. I had an amazing you know education. I got to study abroad for an entire year. I did semester at C and went around the world on a cruise ship and then I did a semester in Paris and when I came back I felt like I announced everybody I'm ready to settle down. I'm ready to get married and I wanted so badly to have a family and like check all the boxes like you know college degree job husband and I met my soon to be ex-husband at a rooftop bar in New York City in the summer and it felt like a fairy tale like first responder in New York City. It was just very exciting. Right and then we got married right before my 26th birthday and there were issues throughout the relationship. Probably a lot of red flags that I ignored and we bought a house and we went on to have my son when I was 29 and my daughter when I was 31 and I would say right around the pandemic everything kind of shifted and working from home my son was diagnosed with autism had special needs. He was not medically complex and I had a newborn daughter. They're two years apart. They have the same birthday two years apart. Oh how cool. So it was definitely a very overwhelming time. I went back to work six weeks after she was born and you know having a two-year-old with special needs my life just kind of imploded. I wasn't sure if it was postpartum depression and then COVID hit and everything just started falling apart. I would start drinking at 11 o'clock in the morning because I could because I was working from home right in your home right and then I was also self-medicating because I was suffering with depression and combining anti-depressants and alcohol and it just made things so much worse and I was drinking to cope with the abuse at home. It was a very abusive marriage. If you don't mind telling us like what kind of things were happening like that led to wanting to drink to feeling you needed that escape. It was survival. I would say it was survival. Okay. I was very good at hiding the abuse and pretending like everything was okay but I guess the best way to describe it was it felt like I was dying inside. Was it physical and emotional? Mental, emotional, physical, the verbal abuse I would say was sometimes worse than the physical abuse but in February of 2021 he assaulted me in front of our kids. He threw me against the wall and that led to me filing a police report getting a restraining water. He at the time to I got he was said to save our marriage. He went into a mental hospital so no charges were filed against him because he was being institutionalized. Unfortunately like at the time it was such a slippery slope that I was in because you know surviving the abuse and then using substances just exasperated everything and I was actually doing ketamine infusions on top of antidepressants on top of drinking three bottles of girl. Yeah it was like yeah a disaster. Right right and my whole life kind of at that point blew up that was the like turning point. I unfortunately because of the alcohol and the antidepressants and the ketamine had a manic episode and I had to be hospitalized two times to get me out of a manic episode and then what happened like what what did you experience if you want to share that? Yeah just so people understand like what what's in what is a manic episode? Yeah so you know because I was abusing alcohol and on antidepressants and ketamine created kind of like this perfect storm and I just spiraled and for a few months I wasn't eating I I wasn't sleeping. It was a very, your mind was just go the road, go the road. Yeah. Like around the clock. There was things stopped making sense. I was just drinking all day. And at that point, my, you know, soon to be ex has been filed for divorce and March. And in April, I had custody of my two young kids. They were two and four at the time. I was only allowed to see them supervised. And it was a very, very tricky time because they were give the kids got their own attorney. We had to get a forensic psychologist involved. And it was just a very long drawn out process. And they, when I was hospitalized for the manic episode, they diagnosed me with bipolar, but it was because they weren't addressing the issue, which was substance abuse, right that I was abusing alcohol. And so they put me on lithium. They put me on all these pharmaceuticals. They loaded you up. Oh, they, yeah, I was a zombie. Right. Complete zombie. I started having tart. I've just kinesia, which is, you know, shakes and tremors. And then my son would be mimicking them. And it got, you know, I was having supervised visits. And I was isolated and alone. And I continue drinking because I was lonely. I was bored. And at that point, it was a vicious cycle that I didn't know how to get out of how you were coping. Oh, yeah, it was, yeah, it was survival mode with everything going on. And then in September of 2023 was kind of like the aha moment. My family decided to hire an interventionist. I didn't see it coming. And I agreed to go to rehab on my own accord before they actually had the intervention. And I spent three weeks in California at Betty Ford Clinic. Okay. And while I was there, my ex-husband or soon to be ex-husband had an emergency hearing to terminate my parental rights and have me evicted from our house. - So, this hearing happened. I think the day I was flying home. And the judge ordered me out of the house. So I had just returned from the west coast back to New York. Fresh out of rehab. And they weren't even going to let me into the house. Like my lawyer had to fight to let me get my stuff. So I had until Monday at like five o'clock to get all my belongings packed up, find a place to live. And at the same time, I haven't seen my kids in three weeks. And I was notified by court order. I'm no longer allowed to see my children. It was, you know, my whole life fell apart at that point. And I couldn't even focus on my recovery because I had a million other things. - I were focused on all of that. Yeah. - So, did you have family or anything? Anybody that was there for you during it? I had my mom, but at that point, you know, I think everybody was so fed up with me. She did come to help me pack up all my stuff, move it into storage. I had a therapist help me get into a sober living facility in Long Island because I had no idea where I would move. - Right. And by Monday, I had to, you know, be out of the house and move into sober living. - Are you still working at this point? - Yes. I had taken some time off, gone back, taken time off, a lot of FMLA. - Okay. Okay. So, you know, I took the three weeks off while I was in rehab and then returned back to work. And then started, you know, my path to recovery, I think is the best way to put it. I moved into sober living. I did an IOP. I basically did whatever anybody told me to do. - So, at this point, you're sober for three weeks. - Correct. Okay. All this is happening. Now you're in sober living. - Yes. - Doing IOP. - Yeah. It's doing everything you're told to do. - Getting the withdrawal injections. - Okay. - Doing whatever it takes. For about a year, I was only allowed to see my children for two hours a week in a lawyer's office, supervised visitation. And I had to pay, I think it was like a thousand dollars a month in order to see my kids for two hours a week. - During that time, I'd probably to pay the attorney. - For that time. I had to pay a social worker. Yeah. I think it was 250 a week. Yeah. - Wow. - So, and, you know, that was a very hard year for me trying to become a member of society, a functioning member of society, and how painful it is to only be able to see your kids for two hours a week, like spending Christmas in a lawyer's office or their birthdays in a lawyer's office. And even for like the month I got back, he was not, my ex-husband was not following the court order to even let me see the kids. So, it was a very, very painful time, but I am happy to say I am now September of the year will be three years from when I went to rehab. - And, yeah. - And, yeah. And I was able to get my life back. I, I no longer have supervised visits. I have my kids every weekend. Did he fight you on all that? - Through court. - He is still fighting me out. - Oh, geez. - Yes. Art of course is going to trial in July. - That's a long time. - Yes. Five years. - Wow. Fighting me tooth and nail. - Wow. And did, was his abuse ever addressed in the domestic violence? - And I think one of the worst parts of all of this is that like a month ago I went to court and we've, we've had three or four judges now because of how long it's been. - Right. - And she said, even if there was a legit abuse, it's no longer relevant. And my jaw just dropped and I can't fathom how it's not relevant. Like, you know, he was the one pouring me glasses of wine at 11 o'clock in the morning when I was working. He was the one buying me three bottles of wine saying I was more fun when I was drunk because it was easier to manipulate me. Yes. I mean, even this week when I went to drop off the kids, he was like, do you want a drink or hear smell my martini? - He did. - I swear to God. He makes moonshine at home with the kids, but nobody looks at his part. They only look at my part. - I can't believe he asked you if you wanted to smell my God. - Wow. - Yeah. He, so my mom and my sister are both recovering alcohols as well. And he always told me that I was brainwashed and that AA is occult and that I have an unhealthy relationship with alcohol. So he definitely wanted a drinking partner and a control year. - Oh, for sure. - Yeah. Yeah. You know, misery loves company. - For sure. So he's a drinker. - He's a heavy. - And his family. I mean, we're both Irish Germans, so we come from a long lineage of - Right. - Yeah. - Right. Wow. So is it your mom's side where the drinkers are? - I have a side. - Or is it so? - Yeah. And we talked a little bit just like briefly before we started about generational trauma. Is there a lot of that on your side? - Absolutely. Did they dive into any of that for you during rehab? You know, because a lot of times people go away, they go to rehab and it's like, oh, you know, say you're an alcoholic drug addict. Whatever go around the room or everybody talks about it and just don't, don't do drugs. You know what I mean? Don't, don't, don't drink alcohol. But I feel a lot of times they don't go to the root causes and help you from where did it stem from? What caused all this? Like you need to address all that. I was so numb in rehab that I didn't even know what was happening like around me. Like, my, I think it took like a couple of months for my body to fully detox from the effects of drinking, magnets of wine every single day. - Yeah. - That was my drink of choice. - Was your actual detoxing, you know, the withdraws were they bad? - I don't even remember. - Okay. - Yeah, like I know they put me into detox for like 24 hours, they gave me some medicine, and then they sent me into general population. - Yeah. - Yeah. - It was very funny, because the only way I would agree to go to rehab was if I got a vacation out of it. So I insisted on like Malibu or California. - Right. - Because that's the logical thinking side of me. - Right. - Like I want a vacation out of this. And so a pool sound a great. But even if they tried talking to me about like generational traumas, I think I was so checked out at that point. I wasn't feeling it. My body couldn't process the information. Like I was just like at best a zombie like just do what I was told to do. Like breakfasts. That's seven go to breakfast. Like I had to learn how to basically live again. It's like being a toddler. - Without all of that. - Yeah. - Yeah. - Yeah. Because for so long I was numbing and disassociating and checked out. So how did you feel like once you got out of rehab and you're in the sober living? How long did you stay in sober living? - A couple of months. I October, November to December, January. So I moved out in February. - And then you got your own place? - I moved down to the Jersey Shore by my mom. And I continued my IOP. It was my first sense of being a part of the real world again. Because like sober living is such a structured environment. You have curfews and you have drugtons. - Lots of rules. - And you're sharing bedrooms with women. It's very hard to go from being independent to being in such a structured environment and being told like you have to go to a meeting every single day. Like so many rules. So they had you in intensive like daily money through Friday, IOP? - It was twice a week, Tuesdays and Thursdays. I was still working at the time. But you know when I wasn't in my, I think it was like three hours a day. But when I wasn't there it was meetings. And again it was just learning how to be a functioning member of society again. Like how to take care of yourself, how to cook again or even take a shower or brush your teeth or do that. - So how did you do all that again? How did you learn and like what steps did you take to get there? Because that's a lot. - Yeah it was like starting all over. - Yeah from scratch. So I moved down to the Jersey Shore for the winter. And then I subletted an apartment back towards New York City. So I could be closer to the kids. That's ultimately where I wanted to be. - Okay. And my sublet was coming to an end. And I was looking everywhere high and low for an apartment. And I finally found one. It was a very exciting time in my life. Because I was able to get a three bedroom bound stone for me and my children. And it was so exciting because right at the same time I was getting custody of them back. It was no longer supervised visits. So like it overlapped. - So how much time has it been then since you get out of rehab? - That was probably August. - Okay. - So almost a full year. - Okay. And having an apartment in my name with nobody else on the lease. Like because like I said, I met my husband or my boyfriend at the time. But when I was 21. So I never had a chance to be on my own. So I had to learn how to get a car in my name. I had to learn how to get a car insurance. - Right. - All these things that- - Because he did all that. - He did all that stuff. - Okay. - And you know, getting an apartment was like freedom for me and being able to decorate my son and daughters bedrooms. - Right. - And it was, and it still is like my little sanctuary and our safe place. And I feel very safe there and I was able to heal there and find hobbies again. And things that I enjoy. And I worked with an addiction therapist and an addiction psychiatrist. And joined domestic violence support groups. And just to have my feelings validated and heard because I think throughout this whole process, I lost my voice and I lost myself and I lost my identity. I didn't even know who I was anymore. - Right. - It took a lot of work. - Yeah. I mean, you were being physically and emotionally abused. Lustre kids, you know, alcohol, all those things. It's just that is a lot to overcome. - Yeah. - And how do you not lose yourself during that? And you do have to rebuild new because like you said, you had to learn how to do it all without without the substances. - Yeah. And that was probably the hardest part. - How did you stay sober? Because you know, there's so many, it's a roller coaster up and down and something happens and you really just want to drink or take a pill or whatever it might be when you're going through it because it sounds like you were going through it a lot. - Yeah. - It still are. - I am. - It's still there. - Yeah. - So how, what's been your key to staying sober? - So at first it was accountability because in sober living, we were drug tested. And then at IOPE we were tested for alcohol twice a week. I think the biggest motivation for me was my kids. Like I just couldn't continue on that path. And I knew the only way to get custody back was to stay sober. So the accountability and doing it for me and my kids. And as I healed and progressed, I realized I'm doing it for me and nobody else. Like I love my kids to death but I'm no good to them if I'm not sober. - You don't care about you. Right. Right. - Yeah. Well, you know, because it's so hard like you hear people all the time, you know, and outsiders looking in, you want to judge and people are like, why can't they just do it for their kids? Like they have kids and everybody's so different in their addiction. You know, it's so easy to say. - Yeah. - Well, just do it for your kids. - And thankfully you were able to look at it like that because there's so many people that can't. It doesn't matter what it is, they still can't stop for whatever reason. And- - When I was in it though, I couldn't. - Right. - It took that, you know, intervention so to speak. - Right. - As a wake up call and at that point I was just so numb and lost that I was agreeing to whatever anybody told me. - Right. - Like could you probably feel like there was no hope at that point anyway? - Yeah, I was just, I think, you know, counting down the minutes till I could drink and then fall asleep and it was just a vicious cycle. - Right. - I wasn't even living. - Right. Were you still functioning at work? - Barely? - Okay. - I mean, I was keeping a job but- - They knew something was up? - Yeah. - Yeah, absolutely. - Okay. - At that point we had like returned to the office one day a week and I think like a manager pulled me in and was like, "We're worried about you." But I was, you know, people were saying they were worried about me but I didn't know how to fix the problem. I didn't- I was so far into my addiction that I couldn't see how to get out or see the like to get out. - Right. - And I don't think anybody wants to like admit I have a problem and I need help or I need to go to rehab. It's very rare that somebody does it on their own. - Right. - Exactly. - A court. - Yeah. - And so I needed my family to step in and push me. - Yeah. And a lot of people don't have family that will do that. It's so sad but- - Yeah. - It's reality like, yeah, gosh, that is even thinking about that. There's so many people that have no family. Everybody's giving up on them already too because of their addiction where you, like you said, people were sick of my shit, you know? - No. - And they do give up. - I think if my family hadn't stepped in, I probably would have dragged myself to death. - Right. - Like, that's- I don't think I would have been able to get myself help. - Do you think, did the kids notice something was wrong? - Because they're young. - They were scared to be around me. They were- Yeah, they definitely did. And you know, I thought, well, you know, I drank the day before they saw me, but I was still hungover. I still reeked of alcohol, you know? - Right. - My ex would comment, you know, there's six magnums of wine in the trash can, and I didn't see anything wrong with that. - Right. - You know, I would wait until the liquor store opened at 10 o'clock and be the first one in line. - Really? - Wow. - It was really bad. - Did you drink as a teenager or like the younger years? - Yeah, too. - I was very much a party girl. - Okay. My parents were very hands off. My dad would be on business trips a lot. My mom was not involved. So I had lots and lots of parties. We would drink on the weekends. - Now was your mom drinking with you guys too at this point? - No, my mom got sober when I was three. - Oh wow. - So I grew up going to A meetings. I grew up. - In the rooms. - Right, okay. - With her. Because she got sober when I was three. - Okay. - So your sister, how far are you guys? - My middle sister is three years older than me and my older sister is five years older than me. And the middle one is sober, but she had a very rough journey as well. - Okay. Do you think a lot, does a lot of it stem from some of the generational traumas or did things happen when you guys were younger? - I think for sure there was a lot of fighting between my parents. This is even after my mom was sober. - Yeah. - Okay. My mom, I would say, was a dry drunk. Like she, her life became about AI. So Christmas is there were 24 hour meetings and she wouldn't be home. And she just, she had my oldest sister when she was 21, so she was very young. And I don't think she knew how to be a mother. - Right. And so her life became about AI. And you know, we were, I would say left to raise ourselves. - So she was hyper focused on all of that. - Saving everybody else. - Okay. - Lots of spawnsies. - Yeah. - During this time, is she not fixing herself emotionally? - I think she was emotionally stunted at that point. And it's a lot easier to try to fix other people than yourself. - Correct. - I think we all know that. - And you know, her only priority was staying sober. And I, you know, I remember her saying, you know, my sobriety is more important than my children. And when you're a kid hearing that. - Oh, she was saying that out loud. - Yes. Okay. And you know, you internalized that. - For sure. - And did that make you feel rebellious? Like as far as alcohol went. Like when you got your teenage years because she'd be saying stuff like that. And you're like, oh, okay. - So I will say, you know, I always struggled with my weight and my confidence. You know, I was the popular fat girl. And I mean, when I was 18, I had gastric bypass. And my mom had gastric bypass. And both my sisters had gastric bypass. - Okay. - And so I do think, you know, I was gonna say it because girl, you're thin now. - Yes. Yes, I've worked very, very hard on getting fit. Fitness has become important component to my mental health and emotional. But, um, you know, in high school, I was 300 pounds. So I felt like I had to be the fun party girl and have the parties to compensate and to be part of the popular click. - Right. - And, you know, I definitely binge drinked. You know, I can recall a New Year's Eve party when I was in high school. And I drank an entire bottle of vodka and like blacked out. - Yeah. - Yeah, yeah. There were a lot of binge drinking episodes. And even in college, you know, I think the whole time, I was probably a functioning alcoholic. - Right. - Once I started drinking, there was no turning it off. - Right. - But I was so responsible because I wanted to prove everybody wrong. Like my, my oldest sister suffered with substance abuse issues. She ran away when she was 13 in and out of rehab. - Okay. - And at that point, I was eight. And I remember my mom telling me, "Well, just wait till you're her age. You're going to be an addict too." And I wanted so badly to prove everybody wrong. - Right. - That I. - Like I can do exactly what you're doing and not be an addict. - Correct. - And I can go to college and I can graduate in four years. And I'm going to prove everybody wrong. And I'm going to get married and have kids and buy a house and have that fairytale and the white picket fence. And, you know, I think so badly, I wanted the world to think that I was okay. And give off this sense of, I have it all together. - Like you wanted to be seen. - As perfect. - Yeah. - Yeah. - No flaws because so much of my identity was tied to, well, nobody will love you if you are not then or, you know. My confidence was nothing. - Yeah. - And I think. - But did you carry. I'm picturing you carrying yourself though with a lot of confidence. - Oh yeah. - Oh yeah. - You know, dancing on bars in New York City. - Right. - Um, you know, fake it till you make it. - Sure. No one knew what you were going on the other side. - Nobody. - Yeah. Did he, when you guys first were together, was he like love bombing you? - Oh yeah. I mean, we met and then the following weekend, I think his dad invited me to the Hamptons and I felt like it was a whirlwind. Like I was like, I'm getting invited to the Hamptons. - Right. - It was just so exciting to me. - Yeah. And he definitely figured out my insecurities and my weaknesses. And he still uses them against me. When I dropped the kids off on Sunday, um, he told me that I'm now cute then and I'm too gaunt. And this is horrible. But he said in front of the kids, he was like, do you have AIDS implying that I was too thin? - Stop. - Where? He actually said, do you have the monster, which I'm not sure if everybody knows, but it's word for AIDS. - Yeah. - And my daughter who sex goes, mommy's a monster. So even now like, I'm too thin or I'm too fat. - Well, it really doesn't matter what his ass says anyway. - But he knows I'm so insured. - Yeah. And I crave everybody's approval. That it like eats at me. That like, you gotta just get to the point where it doesn't. - I know. - Especially coming from him. - I know. - Like, gosh, so he's probably filling the kids with all kinds of nonsense too. If he's saying something like that in front of them, I can only imagine the things that he says, like when he has them, or questioning them. Do they ever tell you anything? Like, daddy's asking me this. Daddy, you know, once we know we did all weekend, and all the details, because narcissists, they're real good at that stuff. - Yeah, and it's funny because I don't know if funny is the right word to use, but he had a baby with somebody shortly after I left him. So my kids now have a half sibling who's two and a half. And his partner actually left for the same reasons I left. So he has a history of it. He created a cycle. - Of course he does. - Yeah, of course he does. - Because there's nothing wrong with him. - No, no. - That's everyone else. - Yes, of course. - And all of his flying monkeys. - Yes. - So unfortunately, my kids have now had to see. - You witnessed that too. - Two times. Were they close to her? - Yes. And she fled in the middle of the night. And it was very painful to my kids because first their mom left. And now another mother figure with their baby sister left. And it was very abrupt and sudden. - Yeah, because they don't understand who dad really is yet. - No, and part of me, you know, I spent 13 years trying to protect him and cover up the abuse. And because I was afraid of people found out they would tell me to leave and I wasn't ready to leave. And I lost myself trying to save him. I drowned trying to save him. And, you know, I, for me, the turning point was I couldn't let my daughter think that that's what love is and I couldn't let my son think that that's how you treat women or people that you care about. - Right. Right. And so they've always been my, you know, motivation. They essentially saved me. - Right. - And I think it took hitting rock bottom to be able to rebuild my life. - Of course. - And I'm so thankful that, you know, all that happened. And, you know, so like even when he, when he does that, like he's asking you if you have the monster, like in front of the kit, how do you deal with that now? Like. - So that just happened on Sunday and today's Tuesday. I'm still processing it. I'm still dealing like at first. - It's just so ignorant. Like I meant, I still mentally shut down. I still disassociate. - Right. - And, you know, I responded to him and I said, well, how much do you think I should weigh? And he goes, you know, you need to gain 15 pounds. You're gone. But like, but when you were heavier, what do you call you fat? - I think he, he loved me 300 pounds because I was easier to control, easier to manipulate, you know. It was a reflection of how I felt about myself and the fact that I'm now working out and that I'm happier without him. I think that kills him. - I'm sure. - That I was able to prove everybody wrong. And, you know, he was waiting for you just to keep following. And that's why he still offers me drinks. In front of our desk crazy, you've got to get that on video or recording sometime for the court because that's what he's using against you. But then, wow. - Oh. - It's a vicious cycle. - Yeah. - And, you know, for the past five years, all I've heard is that I'm a bad mom, that I'm an unpit mom, that, you know, a slew of things. And it just plays over and over and you had. - Right. But it's, you know, I'm now in, you know, domestic violence support groups because. - Is that helping, you know, hear other stories? - It's from vendorsling to, you know, be validated and to be heard and to have people say, "No, you're not crazy." - Right. And to hear other stories too, to where you're like, "Okay, I'm not the only one." Okay, this does happen to other people. - Yes. - That has to help healing too. For sure. And everybody, you know, checks in on me when I have core. And, oh, I love that. - Yeah, it's really, you know, I just, your own little community of people. - Of survivors. - Right. - Yeah. - Right. Wow. So even like, okay, with them saying something like that, how do you not want to just have a drink? Or do you, but you have to like, talk to yourself and because that's a, that's a deep thing for you, a deep seated issue, you know, that he's just poking at. - I mean, he made two martinis in front of me. And I wasn't even a martini drinker, but he goes to me, smell it. And I'm like, what's the point? What is the point? - Like, what is wrong with you? - Yeah, he still says to this day that, you know, I'm not fun because I'm sober. Like, he doesn't, you know, you can't be fun if you're sober. And I don't talk about sobriety with him. - But he took your kids away, did all the things he did to you because you were drinking. But then, he hates that I'm sober. - Well, because you're doing exactly opposite of what he made everyone believe you would do. - Yes. - And he would love it if I was drinking a glass. - Yeah. - It would be great if I was in my gutter. - He wants you to miss. - Yes. - For sure. - Because it feels bigger. - Because it feels very narrative. - Yeah, yep. - His story of that I'm a terrible person, a terrible mom. - Right. Are you talking to somebody to get through that? How much he's been in your head? - Oh, so long. - Yes, yes, yes. So my therapist is amazing. And I asked her about my diagnosis because I was just curious. And she was like, when we started, it was addiction. But now, you know, you have post-traumatic stress disorder. - Okay. - And, you know, I wasn't even able to process the grief around losing my marriage, losing, you know, my kids, losing my house, everything that I had worked so hard for. - Right. - Because it all became about my mental health, my addiction. And so I wasn't even able to grieve that loss. Like, you know, for five years, I've been fighting an uphill battle. And it's exhausting mentally, physically, emotionally. - Of course it is. - Yeah. A lot of money, a lot of time, a lot of emotion. - It's a never-ending battle. - Right. - And when it's over, you're, you're going to feel like you're in the twilight zone. Like, don't know what to do with your self. - Yes. - You know, like, I've got to find a new hobby. - Like, oh my god, I have this time and I feel free. And God, you just need to be like done with this guy. - A hundred percent. - Is you think he's dragging it out on purpose? - Oh, for sure. - Just, you know, he knows you. He knows it's probably wearing you down. - Financial reasons. And, you know, break me so that I agree to whatever he wants. We are going to trial in July because he wants, you know, residential custody of the kids. And so it's also about finances. I have to pay him child support right now, even though he's the, like, unemployed at the moment. But I have to pay him child support because whoever has 50, or if you have 50/50. - Wait, you're in New Jersey, right? They're tough with their child support and stuff. - I'm actually in New York, which I think is even tougher. - Worse than Jersey. - Wow. - It's through the Supreme Court. So it's a Supreme Court judge. So I have to pay him $150 every week while I'm unemployed. - Wow. - So it's about-- - And you get them every weekend. - Correct. And so he gets money, he gets paid, and he gets free weekends. - Yes, and he turns around and gives his girlfriend child support. It's a crazy cycle and we are now in a custody battle. And, you know, I could-- - Do you want them full time now? - I do. - Yeah. So you're fighting for that. And you've been sober for three years. - For three years. - I almost feel like when you see him and he like taunts you like that, he's doing it on purpose. - Oh, 100%. - Just so he can have some proof to prove that you're not a fit mom. - I think so, yeah. - He's calculated. - Happy. - Very. - I know. They're the scary ones. - I would agree with that. Yeah. And the worst thing is I didn't see it for 13 years. And then like when it hits you, it hits you like a ton of bricks. You're like, how did I not see this? And then you know, you're angry with yourself. So on top of, you know, trying to stay sober and be the best mom I can be, I'm also, you know, dealing with all this legal stuff. - Yeah. - The grief around that. And you had asked me, did I, you know, want to drink the first year out of rehab? It was a daily fight, you know, and they tell you, don't drive by liquor stores. Like avoid driving by triggers. And the temptation was so high because, you know, my triggers are boredom, loneliness, being isolated. - Oh, the things you were living. - Yes, correct. - Yeah, in the beginning. - So, you know, once I figure it out, ways to alleviate those like new hobbies and distractions, I would say after a year and I got custody of my kids back, the idea of drinking or wanting to drink just went away. - Maybe it helped to just knowing every weekend you're going to have your kids. - Yeah. - You have to look forward to. - Correct. - You know, like idle time and loneliness and all that. I mean, you can really get in your head, especially if you're going through legal shit. And you have nothing to look forward to. - That first year, you know, you don't have the kids back yet. All those things. - Yeah, it was only a lot to see them for two hours. - Yeah. - Like two hours is nothing. - Did you feel a big shift once you knew you were going to get them every weekend? Could you like, like, - I think at first, it was such a shock because it happened out of the blue suddenly abruptly. Like one week, it was supervised. It's another next weekend. I was taking them to the zoo. So it went from very, very structured to, I think all of us were a little bit in shock. We're not in a lawyer's office anymore. - Right. Did he agree to that or the judge or just ordered it? - He agreed to it. - Oh, he agreed to that every weekend. - But I think that's when things were falling apart with his girlfriend. So he. - You're like, I don't care. I'll take it. - Yeah. - Yeah. - Yeah. I love to. - Do you talk to her at all? - She did reach out to me when I was getting custody of the kids back. And she asked me my side of the story. And that's when she told me she left for the same reasons. And he actually told her that I was the abuse of one and. - Of course. - You know. - Yeah. Made up the old normal. - So like she didn't know what to believe. - He's the victim. - Yeah. - Yeah. And so, you know, I feel bad that she's going through, you know, what I went through. And I think that's a shame that, you know, he gets away with it. - Yeah, maybe she can be an ally for you though. Like in the court for you to get custody. - She offered to write a letter of support. I think we'll just see what happens in July. You know, I'm not giving up on it. - It depends on the judge too. Like if they're looking at it like, "Oh, that's just another woman scorned." - Oh yeah. - Or they're going to actually take into account what she went through too. And it was similar to yours. You just never know what the court. - Yeah, you never know. - Yeah. - I mean, I think they just want us to settle so bad. They want us to figure it out on our own. But I don't think anybody realizes how difficult it is. Zavore's in the narcissist. - It's probably the hardest thing I've ever seen. - Zavore had to do. - They really need a narcissist rehabs, like surviving one. Because it's such a mind. - A hundred per cent. - Non stop. - I feel like all those years, like how do you even go back to normal? Like it's hard. - I don't even know what normal. - Yeah, it's really hard. - Yeah. Sometimes I like have to take a day and decompress after, you know, seeing him to like digest what was said to me. And I'm like, did this really just happen? Like I remember a couple months ago he called me and I don't know if I'm let's say, I don't know. - You get. - Yeah, you get. So he called me a malignant, a schizophrenic, a jerk off all in one sentence. And I like gasped and I was like, can you repeat what you just said? And he goes, did I stutter? And I literally had to like put it in my notes on my phone because I couldn't believe what was being said to me. And the court. - I don't know the rules in New York with recording, but I would be hitting record on my phone every single time you talk to this guy. - The problem is don't they get a notification? - No. - Oh no. - No. - I'll just show you when we're doing it. - Yeah, because of the phone. - I do. - But when I hit record, it's like your call is now being recorded. - Oh, I don't think so. Oh. I don't know. That'd be something for your attorneys to find out is is it a missable in New York? Because sometimes you have to say I'm recording the conversation. - Yeah. - But I know two party can be called. - Yeah. - Yeah. - I hate how jargon. Yeah. - You should just be like, oh thank you. - Thank you. - Thank you for that. - Yeah. Yeah, but if I called him a dick, you know. - Oh, you don't lose. - Also you don't say anything back really. I wish I had that ability. - I lack that. People are like, oh you need to stand up for yourself. You need to, you know, find your voice. You need to do this and do that. And what people don't realize is that I'm trying to undo 13 years of abuse that was ingrained in me and it doesn't happen overnight. - And it's not going to phase him anyway. - No, he doesn't care. - Yeah. - There's no remorse. - There's no remorse on himself. - And is the ego. - Yeah. - Yeah. You know, 10 years ago, nobody talked about narcissistic. - No. - It wasn't relevant. And now it's everywhere. - Everywhere. You know, there's lawyers who specialize in it. - Really? - Yeah. - I did not know that. - Yeah. - I mean, I could see they're seriously abusive. - They're very abusive. And, you know, he enabled my drinking, you know. - Yeah. He wanted to just always stay above you. - 100%. You know, he-- - But at least you see that now. - Yeah. - You know, even his behavior, these dumb behaviors that he keeps doing all the time, he's just trying to bait you. - And sometimes it works. - Yeah. - I mean, I could see that that would be hard to deal with. I would. Do you have to talk to him? You should make him have to communicate through the-- - The parent ab the wizard ab. It's all about optics and the divorce and custody proceedings. So it looks like you're not like you're being difficult and you're not trying to co-parent and doing what's in the kid's best interest. - So like-- - Well, it's definitely not in the kid's best interest for him to be a constant manipulator and just nasty narcissist to the mom that he even has that opportunity. Sounds like he takes every opportunity he can. - Oh, 100%. And he blew up in court on the judge actually yelled at him. - He did? - Yeah, I was shaking. I was shaking. He stood up and she was like, "You do not address me. You sit down and if you have anything to say you say to your lawyer." - Good. - Oh, scared. - What was he-- what was it about, do you remember? - So he filed a motion for child support against me and she goes to him, you know, you make 168,000 a year. You owe her spousal support and cause him to blow up. - Good. - Were you like, "Oh, I can breathe." But yay! - No, I was shaking. - He got a kill then. - I was shaking. I was like, "What just happened?" - Yeah. - Yeah, it was a trauma response. - How are his attorneys? Are they fair? Are they-- - Part of all. - He completes shitheads. - Wow. - Yeah. - Yours. - He's great, yeah. - Okay. - Yeah, I'm lucky. I actually had to get a new lawyer because it's, you know, I, all in, I've spent $150,000 in legal fees. Yeah. And we haven't gone to trial yet. It's just, it's such a waste of time. And-- - And the courts usually do want, like you've said, they want you to settle it amongst yourselves, like during their mediation or something, but he sounds like he's just really difficult. So you probably can't. The fact that he let you have the kids back every weekend, I feel like it's probably just because he didn't want to have to take care of him on the weekends. - So he's a, he is a fireman and he has to work 24s. So when they're with him during the week, they're with their grandparents. They're not even with him. It's just about being able to say, I got custody of the kids. - Yeah. Because she's this, this, and that. - And because if I get custody, then it pokes holes in his story of me being a bad mom. - So sad you would think that for the kids say, he'd be like proud of you, but that's never going to happen. - No, no. Because he thinks, "Fund Danielle's gone," you know? - Without the alcohol. - God forbid you get sober. - You're like, no, it's just because you're an asshole. I wanted to tell him, "Do you remember when you couldn't even trust me to have our kids? Like, is that what you want to go back to? Because if I start drinking, that's inevitably what's going to happen." - Of course he's okay with it, because it just makes him right. - And that's scary. - That's so scary. - Anybody would want that for the mother of their children. - Right. Is the other girl that she experienced pretty much the same? - It never got physical, but it was verbal and she actually, you know, called-- - Has it been that long? - God blessed her. It was less than a year, but you know. She called his mom and said, "Your son is abusive." And trust me, she did not like that. - He's a mom's boy. - Oh yeah. - Can do no wrong. You know, they hate me because I ruined their perfect family image. Like everybody knew about the abuse, but everybody turned a blind eye to it. And like what I don't understand is if I was in such a bad place and I was suffering so greatly, why didn't anybody try to help me? - Yeah, step in. - No, never. - Well, and this is just how he's going to be, because he moved on real quick and she's gone now too. - Yeah, it's like who's next? - Yeah. - The next victim. - Right. There will be one, unfortunately. - Yeah. - It's just said that the kids have to be around that. - It is. You know, I feel for my kids, but, you know, in therapy and in group, I've learned that I'm able to give them a safe environment. And so they get two days with me Saturday and Sunday. I get them on Fridays off the bus and bring them back on Sundays. They get two days of undivided attention and they just get to have fun. And even when they're with him, they're in school. So like he's putting them to bed. Like it's a couple of hours, but I get to be the fun mom and do all those. - In big memories. - Yes. - All the things that are important when they're young. - And have a safe, loving, supportive environment. And they are so attached to me, like so clingy. And I love that. I love that I can be their safe place. - Yeah. Maybe started dating. - I have. Okay, how long did it take you? - You know, I definitely was on the apps. - Good old apps. - Oh yeah. - Oh yeah. - I know. - Yeah. Big old chit-chow. - Yeah. - Or dumpster fire. I was on those, you know, a couple months after I left him because I just was so bored and won't be. - Right. - Didn't want to be alone. - Yeah. I isolation was like, I was crawling out of my skin. But I started dating somebody in September. So it's been about 10 months now. - Okay. And we're very happy. I'm, you're like, wow, I didn't know it could be like this. - I had no idea. No idea. I, that's wonderful. - Like I was afraid of commitment. I was like, I'm fine being alone. I am fine never being in a relationship again. And then I met him and all my guards came down and it was the first time I knew what a safe love felt like. - Right. - And that was very healing because I hated being touched. I hated being hugged. Like it felt like I was suffocating. - Yeah. - Because, you know, the person I thought who loved me would hurt me. - Right. - To physically or emotionally. And so then to have somebody who, was genuine. - And able to hold me and like protect me. And I'm able to like be in my feminine era and energy now because he is kind and he's caring and he's safe and supportive and wants what's best for me. Like my friend, - Something you're not used to. - Oh, never. - Yeah. - My best friend was like, you're used to guys who want to get you drunk or want to get you high. He wants you eating while sleeping, working out. Like he wants you to be the best version of yourself. That's how it's supposed to be. - Yeah. - Yeah. - Did you fight the relationship in the beginning? Like, oh, there's no way that he's real or there's gotta be a catch. - I was really scared. - Yeah. - I was like, I caught myself pushing him away. - Right. - Right. Because I was afraid to be vulnerable. - Yeah. - I was afraid to let somebody in again because I was like, no, never happening. - Is he better on the kids? - He has met the kids one time the kids know about him. And I'm glad that my kids get to see me be happy and see me being treated. - They're happy. - How I deserve. - Right. - Yeah. - What they need to see. So they grow up feeling the same. - And seeing mommy be happy. - Right. I can't believe you're still in it. - I'm still in it, but I feel like I'm at the finish line. And I feel like it's like a metamorphist. Like I set my whole world on fire. I watched it blow up in front of me. And I walked away from everything. Literally when I got thrown out of the house, I left everything behind. - Wow. So we started over completely. - Completely. I just moved my clothes into storage. And I left everything behind. He actually like saved like chachkis and trinkets like my wedding present. And it was like the most bizarre thing. Like he gave it to me in him. I wanted to be like, I left it for a reason. - Right. - Oh, he just wanted you to have memories of him. - Oh. - I'm a firm believer that things hold energy. And so I don't want our wedding dishes. - Right. - I don't want. - You're like, sell that shit. Do something. - Like I want to smash it. I don't know. - Right. - Like, no, I don't want any memories. - You can always smash it. That's for sure. - Oh yeah. That would be great. - Yeah. God. They actually have like break rooms in New York City. - I've heard of those. - Have you found one? - No, but I would probably like it. - I think I took a bat to a TV. - Did you? - Yeah. - Yeah. I've seen those. They, it looks pretty awesome. I've seen that and then the X throwing. - Yes. - Yes. That, that seems a little dangerous for me. - Yeah. That scares me. - I feel like I might cut a handle off. - Well, yeah. And you're like watching other people like they're like coming back like they're like, shit, is it gonna, are they gonna drop it or what? - Yeah. - Or like cut my face. - Yeah. For sure. It seems like a little bit of a dangerous date night. But all right. - Yeah. - Yeah. - Yeah. - Is he a kid's new guy? - Yes. He has two teenagers. - Okay. - Yeah. - Oh. - So we're taking things slow. - But that's the best. - Yeah. Like it is very much, I do my thing like on the weekends with my kids. We get together a few times a week, but we are going slowly. Like I feel like I need to survive this divorce. Get through this divorce and then start a new chapter. - For sure. - And evaluate where it is. - Well, and then you'll have the space emotionally to do that. - Right now it's still very heavy. - For sure. - Because he just still keeps coming for you. - Oh yeah. And I don't know what's next. Like we had the court June 9th, so two weeks ago. And so, you know, it's like monthly. We had one in April. We had one in May. We had one in June. - Wow. - Trial those July. - July 22nd. Yeah, right around the corner. - So are the. - Well, maybe a lot of times they push to try to settle something before the trial. - Yeah. - So fingers crossed, right? - Yeah. - 100%. I'm just waiting. - Just waiting for my lawyer to email me and tell me what's next. - Yeah. Well, I'm glad that you came in and shared this because you are very successful. You've been through a lot. You've survived narcissistic abuse. You do have generational traumas. And hopefully the therapist, they can dig into that stuff too. But a lot of times it takes like mom letting you know what the other traumas are and then to grandma or whoever. But it's definitely a real thing. - Yeah, like even right now, I am not talking to my mom because she has a lot of resentment towards me for marrying somebody who is abusive. And I actually even had to say to her recently, you know, but you've been trying to get out of it for three years. - Oh, five years. - Oh, five years. - Five years. - Yeah, I was with him for 13 years. I've spent the last four and a half years fighting to get out of it. And she told me, just go back to him, you two deserve each other. - Oh. - There's a little bit of that generally. - She'll try that. - She's carrying, yeah. - Yeah, I'm trying to break. - And you can. - Yeah, for sure. I don't, what I want from my daughter is that if she's ever in a similar situation, she can walk away or come to me and we can figure it out together. I don't want her to ever go through what I went through, whether it be the abuse or the alcohol I don't want my kids to everything. They can't come to me because they definitely saved me. And if, you know, I want to be there to be their biggest supporter, and let them up and know that we can get through anything together. - Right. - That's what Pamela does to me. - Yeah. Gosh, I hope your mom steps back someday and just thinks, wow, like she's not thinking that she's telling you she should go back to the disaster of a life you know, that it was before with him. And to see how far you've come and tell you that you should go back to him. - It was a low blood. - She's not processing right or something or she's got her own she's dealing with because, you know, as a parent, you should never wish that. - I think, you know, people say things for our angry. - And her people, her people, you know, like it'll, yeah. Would it have been easier probably and not as much money and all the other things? Sure, but look what you were dealing with and continue to deal with. Should I wish she ever wanted to go back to that? - I mean, everybody said that if we had stayed together, he would have killed me or I would have killed him or we would have killed each other. Like at our worst, I contemplated suicide because it just seemed easier than dealing with abuse. - Right. - So I know that if I stayed in that marriage or if I had stayed drinking, I wouldn't be here today. That I know in my core, like I know for a fact that path I was on, I was knocking on death's door. - And you're so strong. I think you're stronger than you think you are too because to deal with what you were emotionally and then having the kids rip from you, getting sober, that's a lot. That's a lot. - Yeah. - Like I hope you're proud of yourself. - I am. I definitely think I am a survivor. And I never wanna be a victim, but I am so grateful for the life I had now and I wouldn't have this life if I wasn't sober. - Right. - And that's the gift that sobriety gives you. - Right. - So like what do you think would be something that you would tell other people that could be going through what you've been through or in the same situations with a narcissist, alcoholism, whatever it might be, what kind of advice do you think that you would give them so they don't give up? So they know there's hope. - I was gonna say, don't ever give up. You know, lean on a support system. If it's a friend or a hotline or a therapist, there are people out there that care about you. And I think when you're in such despair, you give up, you give up hope, you give up your dreams, your aspirations and you know, just know that there are people out there that want to help you and will help you. And you will get over this. It's not gonna be easy. - Right. - But make that phone call, take the first step, say I have a problem, I need help. There are so many resources out there. - There really truly are. - There's so many. But when you're in the thick of it, you don't know how to ask for help, you're drowning. You need a life best, you need a life saver. But emitting you need help is the first step. And you can have a life beyond your wildest dreams. It's possible. - Just a lot of hard work. - But it's so worth it. It is so worth it. I would never ever go back. - You're doing awesome. - Thank you. - Thank you for sharing. - Thank you for having me. - And girl, I'm gonna be praying for you for July 22nd. - Thank you, fingers crossed. - Maybe it'll happen sooner and it'll just be over. - I'll come to his side. - Maybe I have an email. - I would never know, right? - That would be amazing. - That would be incredible. - All right, well I guess we'll wrap it up unless you have anything else you wanna say. - No, I think that I'm good. - It was awesome. - Yes, thank you. - Thank you so much. - Yes, we're grateful. - I am too. ♪ I'm turning inside out of inside ♪