STOP Overthinking and Start Trusting Your Intuition with Marie Forleo

I was so used to being such a machine and you know what I mean, driving so hard. And when all that depression and I started hearing those voices like you can't do this, you can't do this. I was so used to like, uh, nope, nope. I'm going to keep going. And it wasn't until that whole experience. And then after my surgery, that was my real big wake up call with like girl, you need to change some stuff because even though it's still looking cute on the outside inside, I was falling apart. [Music] Marie Forleo is a leader in a whole new generation of super-soulers. Millions of young women look to Marie as their inspiration. She's one of the top white coaches on the planet. International recognized award winning on to the next. World the New York Times number one best seller. Everything is figure out. Star of the award winning show Marie TV. She's the founder of the highly acclaimed business training school, fee school. She's an extraordinary woman. She's a Jersey girl. She inspires millions of people around the world. She socially conscious global empire. She's really all about giving back to changing the world. Please welcome Marie Forleo. [Music] Amazing. Hi Marie, how are you doing? Oh, I'm so good. Thanks for having me on the show. It's a pleasure. Oh, I'm so, so excited to have you on. Honestly, you have inspired me so much in my own journey because I just love me a powerful woman who paves the way. And you have seriously paved the way. I'm so excited but anyone who hasn't really dived into your journey yet to see what you done because I just think it's so inspiring and so empowering. And yeah, I want to say thanks for going first so that we can all follow. Oh, yeah. And there's a lot more to come. There's a lot more for everyone to come. Oh, I bet. So for anyone who doesn't know you, who has been on a rock, just take us back a little bit. Let us know how you got here, why you got here. Just fill us in. Yeah. I remember when I graduated from college, I was like so ambitious and so excited to make my mark in the world. But I had a lot of energy like many of us do. And I never felt like I could fit into a corporate environment. So I found myself on the floor of the New York Stock Exchange Wall Street, right? And it was a cool environment. I was so grateful to be there. And it was really energetic. There's literally no seats. And I remember just being around it, it was like 99.9 percent guys, which was a little intimidating, a little uncomfortable. But I was like, whatever I chose to be here. And after about six months in that job, I started hearing this little voice that was popping up inside me saying, Marie, this isn't who you are. This isn't what you're meant to do. This isn't who you're supposed to be. And I was like, what? What's going on? And so I'm looking around. I'm trying to pay attention. One of the things I noticed was that everyone I worked with, they were making like a good trillion dollars, more money than I ever seen in my life. But spiritually, they seemed kind of bankrupt. Like they were looking forward to these two weeks out of the year. And that was it. Like they're two vacation weeks and all the rest of the time, they were just talking about the vacation they took. They were like the one that's coming up. And I was like, this is miserable, not to mention at the end of every banking day, which is at 4 p.m. in New York. It was about hitting strip clubs and doing lines of coke. And I was like, this is not my life. Like what did I just sign up for? And so one day that little voice kept going, had gone, but I kept trying to shut down that little voice that was telling me this wasn't right for me. And I showed up at work. And I honestly felt like I was having what I now understand to be like a panic attack. So I was having trouble breathing. I was a little dizzy. I remember going to my boss and saying, hey, can I go get a cup of coffee? Like I don't feel that well. He's like, yeah, go ahead. Instead of going to get a cup of coffee, I actually made a b-line to the nearest church. So I was raised Catholic and I just graduated from Catholic University. So I was kind of trained that when the Shataki hits the fan, you look up and just ask for a little guidance. And so I'm at the church steps and I'm crying like a baby because I felt like such a failure. My parents worked their buns off to put me through college. And I'm the first one in my family to even go to college. So I felt this incredible shame. Like how do I hate this job? I don't have a backup plan. You know, what am I doing with my life? And the first signal I got from a Bub was call your dad. So I took out my flip phone because it's 1999 and I'm crying into the phone and I was saying, Dad, I'm so sorry. Like this job, I can't stand it. I want to quit. But I don't, I'm not going to come home. I'm not expecting you to take care of me. And the interrupts me and he's like, Ray, hold on, it's not. You've been working since you're nine years old. I am not worried about you keeping a roof over your head. He goes, you got to listen to me right now. This is the secret of life. You're going to be working for the next 40 or 50 years. If this job is making you this sick, you got to leave and you got to find something that you love to do because once you find something, you truly love. It's not going to feel like working anymore. And you're never going to wind up this sick again. And now my dad didn't tell me how to find something I love. And he gave me that permission slip that I really needed that I could quit this job. And then I really needed to discover who I was and how I was supposed to contribute to this world because clearly Wall Street wasn't it. But I don't think our society, and I don't know if you'll agree with this. I don't think we do a very good job preparing young people for figuring out what they're supposed to do for their livelihood, right? And so I was clearly in this position of like, I don't know. Like I know I'm a really hard worker and I'm smart and I want to work, but I don't know where the hell to go. The only two clues I had was that I was highly creative and I had an affection towards small business. My dad was a small business owner. So I got to kind of see him run his own business as a kid. And I thought to myself magazine publishing, I love women's magazines. I should go be in magazine publishing. So I hustled and I went to a temp agency and they got me a position, not a women's magazine, but they got me a position at gourmet magazine, food magazine back in the day. Now I'm Italian American. I love to eat. I'm like, this is going to be great. There's food. And I'm like, this is what I was talking about. I'm like, this is what I was talking about. I can't focus all of my friends are getting promotions. They're getting married. They're starting families. Like they're having all of these big life milestones. And here I am just wanting to quit another job without a backup plan. One day I was on the internet probably when I wasn't supposed to be. And I discovered this article about a new profession at the time called coaching. Again, for context 1999. No one had heard of this. That's them. And I read this article about this new profession. And I'm not kidding you. Something inside of me lit up like a Christmas tree was like, oh, like this is who you're supposed to be. But you also have to understand I was 23 years old. So this mean little voice in my head popped up and said, what are you thinking? A life coach? This is the cheesiest, most ridiculous thing ever. Who do you think you are? You're only 23 years old. Who the hell is going to hire a 23 year old life coach? You haven't lived life yet. You've got a ton of debt. You can't seem to hold down a job. This is just going to be one more thing you fail at. So I heard that voice, but I couldn't stop the emotional resonance that was happening within me. So I signed up on the spot for a three year coach training program. It was all done virtually at that time. All teleclasses because again, zoom YouTube. None of that stuff existed back then. So I start doing my coach training a few months later. I get a call from HR. They said, hey, Marie, we've got this big promotion for you at Vogue magazine. More money, more prestige, come on over. And that was honestly my fork in the road. It was like, do I stay on this corporate path? Healthcare, steady paycheck. People understand what you do. It's a very prestigious kind of track in the world. Or do you quit and try and start this weird coaching business? No one's even heard of. You don't even think it sounds right, but something feels right about it. And it seems terribly irresponsible. And about a week later, I gave my notice. I said no to the Vogue job. I went back to doing what I did to put myself through college, which was bartending and waiting tables. And I figured out how to build a coaching practice during the day as I bartended and slung drinks at night. And that was over 22 years ago. Oh, that is so crazy. I literally love that you had the balls to turn down a job at Vogue, especially because I imagine everyone around you at that time as well. I was saying, Marie, you have to take Vogue. What on earth are you doing? I'm making something. Yes. You know, there's just a lot of work. Oh my god. Even my own head, even my own head was like, this is the best fashion magazine in the world. Like, what are you doing? Are you, you're clearly stupid? Yeah, totally. And I guess as well, like back, I want to say back in the day, I think it was. It was back in the day. There was, you know, it's easy for anyone starting a coaching business now to be like, I'm a woman in the coaching business. Someone like Marie's done it. Yeah, I'm going to do it. But back then when there really was no role models doing that. And to be honest, it still is really male dominated now. Yeah. You know, I just, I really take my hat off to how much courage that must have taken to be like, yeah, cool. I'm going to, I'm going to go for it. Let's be real. I was terrified, right? But I had failed so many times. And that little inner voice kept speaking up every time I was in these roles. And, you know, I, again, I wanted to work. I'm not a lazy person. I was super ambitious, but I just really didn't understand that I wasn't built to work for someone else. And so the thought of starting this business, I was like, I feel like I have to do this because the other pattern that I was in felt like I was beating my head against a wall. And again, after three times of doing this, I'm like, I can't, I can't go for it. But I just do want to be very transparent. I was terrified. I was in a ton of debt. I was full of self doubt. But there was a tiny part of me that believed this was my path. And that I had to at least pursue it to see if it was possible. Do you know what's so funny? When you were talking about what you felt then, when you have self doubt and you're scared and things like that? I don't know if this is just me, but you not feel that even as you get years into business, you still have those same feelings. It's different, like, different stuff that you're trying. There's new-- that feeling never goes away, does it? And I think so many people stop at that point. I coach loads of women who want to start their own business. You want to start an online course. You want to start a coaching business. And that voice is what holds them back. You know, that-- That's a dream. Yeah. What's your advice to that person? Because it never goes away. So you've got to get used to it. That's right. It does never go away. And I think-- I was talking about this with my best friend. It's like, we have this journey in life. It feels very spiral, like, where you're going to face these challenges at different stages and seasons of the journey. And they come back around. And they might have slightly different details, because, you know, as you change and environment changes, you're in a different state and season of life, there's going to be kind of new characters and new concerns that pop up. But underneath, it's the same stuff. It's the same stuff. So in terms of what to do about it, one of my favorite pieces of advice that continues to help me to this day is this notion of starting before you're ready. Start before you're ready. It sounds simple. It is simple. It can be terrifying. But like, once you do it, if you've ever gone and swam in the ocean, and if you're a person like me who I used to only go, if it was warm enough, now I've run into cold water, and I really, really enjoy it. When you start before you're ready, you realize you're like, oh, that wasn't. So this is actually pretty cool. This wasn't that terrible. And anything that you want to do, whether it's give a talk, give a workshop, have your own podcast, do a video on Instagram or YouTube or TikTok or whatever, your first ones, probably not going to be that great. But your second one, you're going to be a little bit better. And then your third one, you're going to be like, oh, I think I'm understanding what's happening. And then your fourth, fifth, sixth, hundredth, all of a sudden, the momentum is there. You got it. And here's the thing. I think all of my videos are up on YouTube. So I've been working in this business for 22 years. And it was probably, I don't know, 10, 11, 12 years ago or so when we started the show. You can go see my early stuff online. I'm sitting on my couch in my apartment. I think the very earliest ones were like when I was taking a video on my laptop computer in like 2009, there's no lighting, there's no editing, there's no scripting, there's no anything. I'm just like, hey, I'm going to answer a question today. And I leave all of that up because they're so far from perfect. And honestly, today, I make tons of mistakes. But this notion of starting before you're ready is really, really a fun thing because I've found that some of the best and most powerful learning comes from doing. It comes from experience. You can read about things, you can listen to podcasts, you can watch other people, but there is nothing that's going to train you to get results and to build authentic confidence from the inside out other than just diving and doing it. You don't have to be perfect. It can be messy. And here's the best thing when you're just starting out. Ain't not that many people watching. We have a lot of ideas in our head like everyone's going to see this and they're going to judge me. And I'm not going to be this fat near the thing. It's like that's some bullshit. Because maybe your friend will see you. And if you've got good friends, they're going to be like, keep going. That's awesome. Let's keep this momentum going. But most people are so concerned about themselves and they've got so much of their own shit happening in their own lives, they ain't thinking about you. So, so true. We think that we're this huge piece of everyone's life, but where this tiny speck of people's life and actually no one's really paying attention. Or not. And if they pay attention, yes, if they did, it's like, I don't even know what the LAA, two days ago for lunch, right? And if I saw something, I have friends, I was actually thinking about this this morning. I have friends who are brilliant at what they do. And if you've been in any visible career long enough, you're going to have places where there's like stumbles or trouble points or whatever. And I was thinking about a friend of mine who I know went through something difficult. And this person is literally like a superstar. I was like, no one even remember. It was like a blip. You know, and that's like stuff that I was like, this person was already a superstar and they had a blip. And then it went like, boom. And so none of us have to worry about that. And especially when you're getting started, like this is a time to get messy and to do all kinds of things and to effort up. It's like, do it now. - Yeah, totally. And I think, you know what's funny, my partner always takes the piece out of me because I just can't, I hate ironing. Like I can't be bothered to iron, ever. And he's like, why are you okay? Like walking around with like crease trousers. Does that not freak out? And I was like, no, that's my superpower. Because I'm okay being a little bit messy as long as it gets me out of the door. (laughing) Right? - I love it. I know, I absolutely love it. And I will see this. There have been so many times in my career and in my life that I have tortured myself and that I've held myself back because I wanted it to be just right. Or I was putting so much pressure on myself to get it perfect or whatever. And we love having high standards. You know, having high standards is awesome. It's one of our superpowers for those of us who have those things. But you have to really be aware that it doesn't tip over into some maladaptive perfectionism that holds you back and paralyzes you. And then you never get shit done. And you never grow and you never make a difference. And you never get your dreams into reality. - Yeah, 100%. There was so much learning and just doing, isn't it? - I know. - It makes me think a lot about, when you were saying when you were trying to figure out your way in the beginning and you were like, I'm doing publishing now and then I'm at the stock market and then I'm doing one of these things. I feel like when it comes to figuring out what your thing is, action is the only way to find that as well, isn't it? I get the number one thing I get asked is people say, right, I want to do something for myself. This podcast is called Made for More. People are like, I know I'm made for more. I want to do something. I've got no idea what that is. And my advice is always to just try stuff. Like literally say yes to stuff, figure it out. But what would your best advice to be for someone that's really just trying to figure out what their thing is? - Yes, okay, so a couple of things here. First one, you got to write it down. This is a really good mantra. I live my life by mantras because my brain goes in a million different directions and mantras are a way that really keep me focused on track. So here's this one. Clarity comes from engagement, not thought. Find a way, ideally a low-risk way to test any idea that has some kind of turn on for you, any idea that has some kind of interest. So I'll give an example. I remember for years, years, I had these fantasies in my, I would say early 20s about dancing, specifically I love hip-hop and I love pop and I love, there's a lot of things I like to do. And I love just kind of street style dance. But I had never taken a dance class in my life. Like never, no dance classes as a kid. I would of course dance around the house. I would like moonwalk across my mom's linoleum kitchen floor. But there was no formal training there. And I cannot tell you how many years I wasted thinking to myself, wow, I wonder if I actually have anything, you know, I wonder if I have what it takes. I wonder if I'm any good. And it wasn't until I was like 25 or even 26 that I finally got off my butt. And I went into a professional dance class for the first friggin' time in my life. And let me tell you something. Engaging in that low-risk way, go to a goddamn class, I started weeping on the floor because my body was like, finally she's listening. And that first class turned into many classes, turned into this whole other career that I had that started at 25 and went to about 30 that was in the world of dance and fitness. But I would have never gotten that clarity unless I engaged and gave it a try. Same thing when I was kind of in the midst of that portion of my journey, I remember I got asked to do a fitness video. And I was so intrigued by that idea, but I know what the heck. I was like, I have done fitness videos again. We're talking back in the day. This is before we all have apps and before YouTube. But I remember as a kid watching these fitness TV shows and I would work out with my mom and it was so cool. I was like, wow, could I be that person? And it wasn't until I got on set. And I was like a backup fitness person. I was like, oh, shit, I think I could do this. I could totally, and I love this. I love being on camera, which PS, and this is going to get tie into your whole answer. So much of my experience in those early days when I didn't know what the hell was going on, but I made that wise move. Underpinning clarity comes from engagement, not thought. I got experience in front of crowds. I got experience leading and teaching. I got experience on camera, which PS, once I kind of reached a certain age and I was complete with my dance and fitness career, all of those skills and all of that engagement and all of those apparently disparate things positioned me perfectly to start an online show called MarieTV, positioned me perfectly to start creating and selling online courses. So when you're in that stage of exploration and discovery, and it doesn't matter how old you are, give yourself permission to follow what lights your heart up, even if they don't seem connected, even if it doesn't make sense, because usually there's a point of convergence, which you cannot predict in the present moment that will arrive in the future, where it will make sense in retrospect, but you can't know it from the onset. You have to trust. And that's where faith comes in. That's where heart comes in. That's where a little bit of universal magic comes in. And I'm a very logical and pragmatic person. So I'm not about like sitting around and going like, oh, the universe is going to bring me x, y or z, not by a long shot. But I am wise enough to understand that I don't know it all. And that sometimes you do have to trust your heart and have faith because there is a grander plan in place that you can't see it all yet. So true. I think it's so funny. You know, when you, I've had so many random jobs, it sounds like you have as well, you know, I'm bartending and all that random stuff. And you know, when you look back and you, you like, you pull out a skill or a tool from your back pocket that you learn in a job years ago, and you're like, oh, that's why I did that absolutely horrendous job. That makes sense now. I like it when I start to make sense. But I also want to say I'm so glad that you went on your dancing journey because today I stumbled across your YouTube video, which was the behind the scenes of your book tour, everything is bigger asable, which is an amazing title. And you combined dance and your book tour. Yes. One whole thing. It was like a full performance. Then I literally watched that today. I got goosebumps. So I was like, this is a way that I can combine my two lives of being a dancer and being in business. And it totally gave me permission to do things out outside the box. And I want to say thank you for that. That was so cool to see. You're welcome. Thank you. I mean, there was another example of also trusting your heart and trusting your intuition, even when it doesn't make sense. So I remember when everything is figure outable. I was actually, it's so funny. There was like something in my own book. I'm like, I need to reread that. I need that reminder for myself right now. And I was taking a look at the book and I remember sitting in my publisher's office and they're like, okay, Marie, you know, they know how much I love marketing. They know how much I love business. They're like, okay, so what do you think it for the book launch? And it's all these executives kind of sitting around a big conversation. And I said, okay, need you guys to make sure you're all sitting down for this. I said, so here's my vision. Imagine if a TED talk and a Beyonce concert and a block party had a baby. And it was one big event. I was like, that's what I want to do. And I remember it was just like deer and headlights look like they're like, what the hell is she talking about? I was like, don't worry. I understand. I know my vision in my head and we are going to figure this out. Just are you guys kind of cool with that? And they're like, so it was really an event to pull off. We actually had the folks like some of the folks that have built some sets for Kanye and my creative director/choreographer. She is one of the folks who is responsible for you know when run the world girls and the amazing shoulder choreography that Bay does in that video. So she was involved in that. And yeah, so it was a really incredible thing to be able to have dance to dance and have dance performance mixed in with an inspirational and activating talk and more dance and more performance. It was really really cool. It was so good. It gave me all the feels. And I guess that's like when you talk about trusting your instincts and your intuition, I feel like today that's even harder than ever because there are so many people you can copy. Like I guess you know in the early stages you really had no one to copy and be like, I want to do it like them. You were kind of like, right, I'm going to figure out how I want to do this and I'm going to do it. But today it's so hard not to be like a carbon copy of people that you are inspired by. You know, how do you kind of tune into that voice yourself and learn to trust that? It's hard sometimes. Absolutely. And I think it's a dance. I also think that it's important to understand like the stages of getting yourself confident enough to do so. You know, any artistic endeavor that one goes on and we're talking about business in this context because we understand that. But if we think about it in the realms of writing books or film or even music, many great artists often start off kind of mimicking or doing covers of or right kind of embodying a version of folks that they admire as a way to get your toes in the water and to start to feel your way into whatever the craft is that you're pursuing. And so I think not beating ourselves up for at least trying to inhabit or trying things on. Of course, you know, no one should be plagiarizing, no one should be copying others, but we're trying to get to the kind of essence of the framework underneath. So I don't want people to also feel guilty if you're like, but I don't know because all of us need examples and we need frameworks to just inhabit for a second so we can get our footing. Then once you start to kind of get your footing, I think it's really important to understand especially in our world right now with business and social and seeing people's business models. Oftentimes folks want a shortcut because in business, it's scary and there's no guarantees. It's not like when you have a job where you show up and there's pretty much a guaranteed paycheck, you know, and you have to perform what you need to perform, but you're not responsible for keeping the lights on as a business owner. It's not just about that. It's also about innovation and it's about having a unique position in the marketplace and it is about doing things differently. And so I think learning to trust your instincts comes down to not making decisions out of fear and not trying to rush. And just because you see someone having success with a particular model, you know, we've had this a lot in our business where people will try and copy what we do, but they're almost just looking on the surface and not understanding all of the underpinnings that have gone into what we've built. Or that kind of special essence, you know, like I don't know, like there would probably be other expressions of a book launch that I would be horrible at. And you know, like you would probably pull off an amazing book launch or something like that with dance because you are intrinsically a dancer. Like that's a part of your identity. That's a part of who you are. It's a part of your authentic genuine history. But if somebody else tried to do it because they thought you do it or I did it and it looked cool, but it wasn't really them, it would fall flat. So I think it's also about being honest with yourself about what's really true to you. And then one of the easiest things you can do is like just be specific and clear. What do you love? Like I genuinely love dance. I genuinely, like hip-hop is the only, it's the music I grew up on. So that's all I kind of know and listen to. So it's a genuine expression of my aliveness and my authenticity. And so the other thing that I love, and we've built this into the brands sometimes, like I have loved smurfs, these little characters from way back in the day. I love roller coasters. I love zombie movies. So those things, that all that weirdness and quirk shows up in our brand in a very real way. I'm Italian-American. I use spicy saucy language sometimes. That comes into our brand. But when other people try and do that character, it doesn't resonate because it's not really them. So an easy way to sidestep that is to put on your blinders and say, "What makes me me?" Am I like passionate about yarn? Do I love chess? Is there a part of the world that I just seem to always go back to and I can build that into my branding, my messaging, my references, my storytelling? So I think those are some of the ways that you can start to stay more authentic in genuine, while not sliding too far down the just being a carbon copy of someone else's own. Yeah, totally. Don't you think it's so much, if everything feels so much easier when you start to just be yourself? Oh my God, when I started swearing in the same way that I swear in everyday life, yes, it felt so much better. When I stopped pretending that I eat smoothie balls of breakfast and instead the fact that I live off cocoa pops and toast. It felt so good. I felt like I was coming out the closet and I was like, "This is me. This is gross." Yeah, it takes a lot of, I mean, it's such an energy, it's such an energy waste when you're trying to be someone or something else or trying to hide parts of yourself. The same thing with like, quote unquote, adult language. I just remember just getting railed. I remember being at a speaking engagement and it was for a friend and I adore this friend. This person is like a wonderful human. But they tend to attract a much different type of crowd than I do. So my crowd tends to be a lot more kind of forgiving. They're pretty boisterous because they have watched a lot of my videos. They know fboms are coming. They know it's going to get spicy and saucy like they're ready for it. But this particular crowd wasn't. And I remember getting off the stage and a few fboms had happened. Again, I didn't plan them. It was just I got so passionate and we were like so into it. And the person basically said to me, like, you're so intelligent. Why did you ruin it with, you know, speaking that way? And I basically was like, you can go fuck yourself. Like, like that was my response because. And but it also, it really made me realize that I don't have to say yes to speaking engagements to places where I don't intrinsically feel there's a lot of alignment and values. Or if I have to twist myself into a pretzel and become a different version of me. And by the way, I don't have to drop those kind of things. I know how to be on the today show. I've been with Oprah. Like I know how to turn it down and tune it in. But there was something about me learning to really, really pay attention to where I can show up and contribute and in which ways where I can fully be myself because it's just a whole lot more fun. You have more energy and you make more of an impact that way. Yeah, 100% totally agree. And on that topic of. Really understanding yourself and getting to know yourself. Something that I've found so powerful with what you've shared is your discovery of your. Addiction to working. Yes, this has been a huge huge anyone that's just my forecast for know that I've been talking about this for ages in myself and kind of getting to that point of like, shit, this is not actually very healthy. The way this, you know, this ambition has gone into an unhealthy level. And this is not called anymore. And I love hearing you talk about it. You're probably a bit further ahead than I am now because it's, don't you not think that when you figure out that moment of your like, okay, and he's changed. It's still a transition, isn't it? Like there's still some deep rooted. 100% 100% because anyone who can identify or feels workaholic and or that's a place either you are, you have been or it's easy for you to go to. That's been around for a while. That's been around for a long time. Like you didn't just pick up that habit yesterday. You've probably been like that for most of your life. There's probably been a part of you that has had to handle everything. You've had to be the person in charge. You probably had experiences in your life that showed you that maybe you wasn't that easy to depend on others. So you had to pick up the pieces. And so those kind of things run pretty, pretty deep. Also too on the flip side, you know, outside of kind of the more difficult things that can drive us to overachievement, the things that can drive us to over produce. There's also the flip side that it can be really rewarding that, you know, our work in our businesses can be this place where, unlike a lot of the rest of the world, we have a certain degree of control. And when you show up and when you show up consistently, the rewards can be pretty big. And so that's the other piece of it where you're like, wow, well, I'm getting all this acknowledgement. I'm getting this appreciation. I'm getting these rewards. I'm seeing this difference that I'm making in the world. I'm seeing these financial impacts as well. They're really like, why would I stop doing this? But for me, it was really like when my body started breaking down and I started experiencing this level of depression and anxiety and exhaustion that had never been present in the rest of my life, never been there. And when I started waking up thinking, and this was not even like a conscious thought, this was more of like my eyes opened up. And I was like, I can't do this anymore. Like I want to run away from my life. I don't even want to be here. That's when it got scary for me. And I was actually in a habit of doing like all the things that we're supposed to do. So I was journaling. I was getting good enough sleep. I was eating as clean as possible. I'm meditating. I'm working out. I got a great relationship. You know what I mean? Like all of the things that all the checks, they were being checked. And I was like, my normal tricks are not working. What's happening? And then the real wake up call was when I was actually on the phone. I was on FaceTime with my best friend and she saw me win. So we're talking and we're talking about something. I was like, Oh, she's what just happened. And my best friend lives peacefully with stage four cancer. She has for 20 years. So when she's like what's going on, I have no choice but to listen, right? And I said, I just been having these weird little pains. And she said, what are you talking about? And this was actually during the end of, well, during the end of 2020. So it was like October, or is 2020 when pandemic happened. None of us knew what the hell was going on, right? It was scary times. She's like, you're going to go get a, which I'm going to alter sound. I said, no, I'm not. I'm not going to a freaking hospital right now. You're crazy. She's like, no, you're going to get an ulcer sound. I was like, I go and we discover that I have tumors inside of me, including one big one, the size of a grapefruit growing outside of my uterus, pushing all my other organs out of place. No way. Yeah, it was like, I thought I was eating too much popcorn. I was like, no, you have all this stuff growing inside you that you didn't even know. So it turns out I had to have an urgent hysterectomy to get the pain to stop and to get those tumors out. And after that, it was like went on this whole kind of health journey and discovered doctor literally said this to me. She said to me, based on my blood results, she's like Marie. She goes, it's a miracle that you're even able to get up every day. Based on your kind of adrenal levels, your thyroid, your hormones, like all this stuff was just way out of balance, which tells you and speaks to like, I was so used to being such a machine and you know what I mean, driving so hard. And it wasn't until that whole experience and then after my surgery, then this was new for me. Uh, I have a lot of energy. So working out is one of the ways I also have ADHD. So one of the ways that I keep myself sane is like, it's my release, right? So working out is a way that I can clear energy. I can stay engaged and it's just really healthy. And I couldn't work out. I was not allowed for like, I think it was eight weeks. That was the first time in my entire life that I had taken eight weeks off. And it was a real eye opener on a lot of different levels. This is a couple of years ago now, but um, that was my real big wake up call with like, girl, you need to change some stuff because even though we're still looking cute on the outside, inside I was falling apart. Yeah. And your body does speak to you, doesn't it? You know, I've definitely got those signs. I know those signs now where I push it to hard and I think, oh, God, take Kali, you've got to yourself into this, this rut again. And I'm interested to know what your, once you had that realization of like, okay, this needs to change. I think it's to know what your next step was because I just want to share what I had. My, my moment of like, okay, enough is enough. My body is literally like breaking down. I read a book called, um, present over perfect. And I had this like major brainwaves. I was like, oh my God, this is me. I'm a work of hollate. This is too much. I need to learn how to be present. I got halfway through the book and then I put the book down, tuned into my subconscious thought and I'd put it down because I was worried it was going to slow me down. Yes. I can't deal with this thought right now. I need to keep going. Like that's how ingrained it was even in my like transition moment. I still couldn't stop. So I'm interested to know what your process was transitioning out of that. You know what's interesting? So after I'd written my book, everything is figure out of all. And I had come back from tour and it was still, um, 2019. I had this download. I get downloads about what I'm supposed to create next. And they come out of nowhere and I never know when the hell it's going to come or what it is. And I just usually write it down. And then it usually takes me like a couple of years when I marinade on something, I start gathering research and I'm like, okay, great. I might play this full right now, but this seems like it's going to be in the next in the pipeline. I bring all this up because I had gotten a download after this book that I was supposed to create something that's called time genius. And I started doing all of this research back in 2019, the latest breakthroughs in neurobiology, the latest breakthroughs in behavioral science. And I actually started creating like this whole catalog of the best ideas and wisdom and notes and research that had helped me over the past 20 years be as effective as I could be. But when I had started building all that new research in, I started discovering a lot of things that I just hadn't discovered yet about how overwork and overwhelm and constant distractions and interruptions. Like what that impact has on our bodies and our brains and discover the research around, um, for us in America, most Americans right now are spending at least 10 hours a day staring at screens. And that on average, the average American right now will spend the equivalent of 44 years of their life on screens. And then it's, it's bonker pants. And so there was all this stuff. And so I was having all these moments. I remember when I was collecting my research going like, okay, I know I'm supposed to create this time. Just think, let me do it in the research. So when my thing happened, I was like, Oh, I'm supposed to create this new program and I'm actually supposed to heal myself first. And then I'm supposed to teach it to other people like that. And that fear that you just mentioned about, nope, this is going to slow me down. I went through all of that. Like it was as though there was this little Marie in there and she was tortured and she was fighting like, no, no, use this your edge. Or could the whole thing that you've ever done, the whole reason that you have any successes because you work so hard and it's because you never stop and you never quit. And if you take a break now, everything you've worked so hard for is going to fall apart. So it was this really scared little version of me that was kicking and screaming and did not want to look at all this stuff. But there was that other part of me that again, that just gone through the surgery, that it's just gone through all the stuff. The thing I didn't mention as I had just lost my grandmother, dear friend of mine, who was my age, died unexpectedly in her sleep. There was so there was this confluence of like, nope, nope, you've got to change and you've got to change now. There is a better way you're supposed to figure this out. You're supposed to heal yourself and you're supposed to then teach other people. So my path then was instantly, I literally told my team, I was like, okay, this next three months, all I'm doing is creating this thing that I've been telling you guys about, but that was kind of on the back burner. Now it needs to be on the front burner. And so I literally started not only taking the best advice that I had known about, but probably slipped on, but incorporating all this new advice and really started giving myself permission to work less and to close the computer and to say no. And I had this perfect excuse because of my surgery. So I had, you know what I mean? I was still like my body and all kinds of stuff like I didn't have the energy. I didn't, I wasn't capable of doing as much as I had normally done. So I was kind of set up in a way to deal with this in a way I'd never been able to do before. And it's you felt like you were in my brain then. I was like Marie, have you been in my brain? You know my thoughts. And I feel like so many people can probably resonate with that. I want to know though if someone's listening to this. And they're like, well Marie, it's fine for you to say you want to work less, whatever, because you know you got money in the bank, you're in a safe space. And definitely when I had my kind of moment, I was in a really great place in my business. So if I stepped back and I was like, I can't afford for things to slow a little bit. What if someone is in a place where they really cannot afford to lose, you know, a tiny bit of their income? Like I have to keep riding this wave though. What does that person do? That person actually has a complete ability to become a time genius. So I've helped people through this. I've helped thousands of people through this. And this is exact position. So working less, when I say working less, I'm not actually even talking about necessarily reducing your work hours, but I'm actually talking more effectively about working differently. But we all get 168 hours a week every week. That's what we're all given, right? And most of us, we sleep seven, eight hours, something like that. And then there's another portion of hours that are devoted to eating, showering, you know, taking care of ourselves and our loved ones. And then there is this portion around work. And then there's still time left over. I've had people do the math. I've taken thousands of people through this. Most of us don't understand how culture and how we've been trained to flitter away literally hours in these little shatters of time, usually addicted to our phones or computers or television and how we've been trained to fill up almost every moment in its exhausting. So for anyone listening right now, if you're like, I can't afford to, you're not going to have to slow down and you don't have to take a pay cut necessarily. You don't even have to work less. I'm using like kind of little bunny ears here, but what we can teach you how to do is work very, very differently so that you are removing a lot of the lost time that you don't even recognize as being sucked up by shit that doesn't matter to you and reclaim that time and use it in new and different ways. What does that look like? It might look like you need a little more rest. It might look like you actually daydreaming a little more. It might look like you get to work out, maybe not for two or three hours a day, but even 15 minutes a day can completely start to transform how you feel, how you experience yourself emotionally and mentally. It can change how you feel physically. It's miraculous. So we're never going to get more than 168 hours a week, but what we can do is completely reshift and remodel how we use that time and your experiences like night and day. Same thing for me. Even necessarily these days, I'm actually getting more done, but I'm doing it so much more effectively than I used to do because I don't know if you resonate with us. I used to think I had to be at my computer like super early and if I was not still going at seven or eight at night, I'm slacking. And then if after dinner, it's like, I'm going back into it again. Oh, I can be doing more research. I can be doing that. But there is a point of diminishing returns. There's a lot about how our brains work and a lot of understanding about cognitive fuel that most of us just don't know because we've never been taught, but we can get usually three to four hours maximum of intensely focused, productive work a day and the rest of its bullshit. The rest of its bullshit. And if you understand that and you start to structure your day around where you're most cognitively, let's say available and optimized, you can get large swaths of incredibly important work done. And then you give yourself permission to have these other hours be more enjoyable, more renewing, more restful. And you wind up getting net net way more done in less time and your experience of your life is 100% less stressful. Yeah, 100%. I found one of the hardest things with not doing so much and not always being in my computer or my phone or something like that is being okay with the silence. I don't know if that sounds weird, but just not consuming felt uncomfortable. Yeah. And for a long time, I think I was just scared of being in silence. Yes. Let's talk about where some of that can come from. And I also want to share a little mantra because again, mantra is for me. They are life changing. One of the biggest ones is create before you consume, create before you consume. So up to 80% of people wake up and the first thing that they do is they look at their phone within the first five minutes. And you're either looking at social media, which is putting you in a place of comparison. It's going to make you feel like shit. I don't care. I don't care if there's cute cat videos and cute this and cute that you will come across something that'll make you feel like you're not doing enough. And then what are you doing? You're flooding your body and your brain with cortisol. You're stressed already that completely taints and tones how you go into the rest of your day. So create before you consume. But in terms of the silence and being uncomfortable with the silence, I want to just dig underneath that for another minute because stillness is one of the most important energies for us to cultivate. So there's actually four chambers of the Sacred Heart. This is from a book that I read that I love. It's by a woman named Chris Schumacher and the name of the book is called The Freedom Transmissions. And it's actually a channeled book. And so these four energies of the Sacred Heart and these are four energies that when you cultivate them, you have peace and stillness is one of them. Simplicity is another one. Surrender is another one and stability is another one. So let's talk about the silence and the stillness piece. The silence and the stillness is actually where we can hear our inner voice. There is wisdom that's always trying to come through your higher self, your connection to divine source, universal, whatever, whatever name works for you doesn't matter. It's all the same goodness. And it's constantly trying to nudge you in the direction of your highest and best good. The next move you should make in your career. The next change you should make in terms of your health. What would be awesome to go explore that would bring you joy or abundance. But when you're constantly in taking information, when you're constantly obsessed with taking in from the external world, seeing what other people are doing, having this information overload, there is no space for you to hear your inner wisdom. It is exhausting not to mention your nervous system needs time to recalibrate. And if you're constantly taking in, it's like gluttony. It's just there's no. So the uncompterability I think that you experienced, it's only because it's unfamiliar because culture has changed you to be a consumer. Yeah, that makes so much sense. It really does. You know, we're so in control of what we expose ourselves to. And I think probably thinking back to it, the time that I had that moment of like, okay, this has to stop. All of my habits at that time were really bad. You know, I wasn't working out. My easing was bad. So I probably didn't want to hear what my inner voice had to say because I was ashamed of hearing. You're not enough or, you know, that's the thing. There is, as I'm grown into it and my habits have got better, I like my inner voice now. I trust my inner voice. You know, part of it too, and I don't know if this, if this rings true for you or not, but this has been my truth. Sometimes I've not wanted to hear my inner voice because it was inconvenient. It would require me to make a change. It would require me to give up something I'm addicted to. For me, it was actually, and this was not so long ago, it was coffee. I love coffee. Like coffee, they call it the nectar of the gods for a reason, right? And like, I was in Europe not too long ago and on vacation, and I had just given up coffee and my partner was having it. And like, you know, even the smell, I could appreciate it. But I got inner signals that was like Marie or overdoing it and Marie or overdoing it. And for a little while, I did not want to hear it because I didn't want to give up my blankie. I didn't want to give up this comforting thing that chemically, I was addicted to. But once I got real and I actually let that go, again, a whole new level of healing then came about. A whole new resurgence of energy and clarity started coming in because I was wise enough to listen to that signal. So I just wanted to say that it might be that other, there might be another layer to it of just like our habits that were addicted to, they're comfortable. They're like our blankies. We love them. They were like, this is part of who I am and I'm not giving it up. But then once it keeps those signals, you're like, shit. All right. Now I got to get real. And now there's going to be a whole new, even more stable me that's going to come to light when I can let go of some of these habits that are just not serving me any longer. Yeah, for sure. And I think so many people are probably in that position. You know, when they're getting the intuition of like, you need to change career and do something that you love. But it's quite comfortable just sitting here and moaning about my job and saying that my boss is the dick. And, you know, this is, this is safe over here. Yeah, sometimes you just don't want to hear that noise. Do you have like, you have to do something now? Yeah, it'll come that that voice is in each of us. It's my belief, especially after working with people as long as I have been like, everyone is their own wisest teacher. And like one of the greatest things that I strive to do as a coach is help people hear that inner voice. I'm happy to give you my perspective. I'm happy to tell you about the science and the research that I discovered because I love that stuff. But ultimately my job is to support you to hearing what your own truth is and then helping you create a strategy to activate on that, to bring that to life in your own life because you're your best and wisest teacher. And you're right. Sometimes we're not ready to hear it, but that voice, if it's a whisper right now, it'll become louder and you'll start hearing a shout. And if you ignore it long enough, what I've seen to be true in my own life is something's going come and knock you upside the butt or the head and it's going to knock you on your ass and it will be a lot more painful and a lot more challenging to get yourself back on track if you didn't listen to that whisper. 100%. I totally agree. I've been picked in the ass a couple of times by not listening. Definitely. You definitely know that not the way forward. Marie, I just have learned, I've learned so much from you, but I'm so, so grateful for you. It's coming out as a workaholic. Sorry, man. When I first heard you say I was like, Oh my God, that's me. That is, I get it. That makes sense. And maybe there's not something wrong with me. So no. And here's the other thing. And I do want to paint the other side of the picture too because here's what's cool. You specifically, I want to say this to you. And anyone else who can identify with us going like shit, I think I'm a workaholic too. We have that ability. So that is a beautiful gift and a treasure. We just don't have to use it all the time, right? So there are going to be moments in life or projects that you're working on or different times when it's like we get to flex those beastie muscles. We get to flex our ability to go and to expand and to like be in it and to get gritty and to like make it happen. My only suggestion is that doesn't have to be how you live 24/7, 365. So if you think about it, like there are 88 keys on the piano, right? And for me, being in my workaholic zone was like, I'm going to play these four keys all the time, all the time, all the time, all the time. There was no dynamics. There was no range. But now it's like, I haven't lost my beastly nature. My team and my friends know like, oh, you want something done? Like we got something big to happen. Get Marie on board. That shit will happen. And I know how to come up and flex, right? And get in there and do it. But I don't have to stay there and I don't have to destroy my life. And so now I just have with and depth and range that quite frankly, I wasn't flexing before. And life is so much more fun and it's so much more spacious. So for anyone, even yourself, if you still got that little voice like, shit, I'm going to lose my edge. If I slow down, everything's going to fall apart. It's like, no, no, no, no, no, you're just going to be able to play all the keys on the piano. The music that you'll be able to make is going to be so much richer and deeper and more exciting and more multi-dimensional because you're not just playing on those four keys. I love that. Thank you so much. I've got some questions that I really want to ask. But first of all, I do some quick fire questions at the end. I just want you to talk really quickly about time genius because I'm going to come out soon. And I feel like so many of my audience is so perfect for. So. Yes. So time genius is this incredible experience. It's an online course that we created. You go through it in five days, not even five full days. It's like less than two hours a day. And I will teach you if you're anything like we are where you have found yourself overwhelmed, burnt out, exhausted, just being pulled in a million directions, feeling like you're working all the time, but you're not getting anything significant on. If you're that person that feels like when you're working, you should be being present with your family or friends. And when you're with your family or friends, you feel like you should be working. We can get rid of all of that dysfunction fast. We can help you two to three acts of your creative output in a fraction of the time. If you are someone who struggles with stress and anxiety and depression, a lot of that will start to go away and melt away naturally. And you'll have science back tools to help you get more done in less time and actually feel more joy where your to do list isn't going to be 17,000 pages long. We show you how to create a success plan. That's like so short. You can write it on a napkin and you feel like you're winning every single day. So if people want to check it out, we've got a lot of free training coming up. We can teach you more about what time genius is. And if you want to join us, you can join us. If you don't, you'll get a ton out of the free training. If you go to jointimegenius.com, you can see our kind of upcoming free training. I think there's a quiz there. It'll show you actually how much what I call time stress is costing you in cold, hard cash. That's a very big wake up call for those of us who are entrepreneurs. It's crazy pants. But that's what it's about. It's really, really fun. We've had thousands of people go through it and the results are literally life-changing. Oh, so I'm me up. That sounds. I'll do it. Yeah, we're doing it soon. Well, you and I, we should talk about it. I think you would love it so much again, because you and I share so much of the same DNA and so much of our work of holism. And again, we're not going to lose our beastiness. We're not going to lose our crusher nature, but we're just going to expand. We're going to play all those keys and we're going to have so much more energy and so much more joy while we do it. So good. I love it. Okay. Really quickly. I want you to finish my sentence. Happiness is. Freedom. Success is. A great bowl of gluten-free pasta. Oh, you had me before you got to gluten-free, but only because I can't do it anymore. If I could have the gluten, I would eat it all day. My body is just like, no, she's done with it. Oh, yes. Less fun if it gives you a yes. I've got to get that. That's right. What is the best piece of advice you've ever been given? My heart is the strongest wisest part of me. Oh, I love that. And lastly, what is a book or a podcast that changed your life? One of my favorite books still to this day is a book called The War of Art by Stephen Pressfield. It's a shorty. It's a powerful one. But if anyone ever struggles with getting started on that next writing project or getting started on that next business or that nonprofit or running that marathon or doing that project that your soul really wants to do, but you feel so much resistance around it, you have to read The War of Art. It is a kick in the ass. It is a wake up call. It is a loving nudge to get you going. Oh, that sounds perfect. I know that's going to help a lot of people. Thank you so much. Where can we find you? Where can people find all things Marie? Yeah. I am at Marie Forleo on all the socials Instagram, TikTok, all those fun things. MarieForleo.com. So it's M-A-R-I-E-F-O-R-L-E-O.com is all the things that we have like five or six hundred episodes of MarieTV. We've got this book. Everything is figure outable. This is like a little roadmap to awakening your creative power. So if you've enjoyed this episode, I think you would get a lot out of the book. And I read it. So if you're an audio person, you will have me chomping away in your ear. That's fun. That's time, genius is coming up. You can just Google search MarieForleo time, genius. It's an extraordinary experience. Five days, you're in and out and like you're like holy shit. How did my life change this fast? Oh, I love it. Thank you so much, Marie. I could talk to you for hours. I've taken so much from this episode and I really, really appreciate everything you're doing. Thank you so much. Bye.