State Sen. Carrie Hamblen, discusses concerns around Project Jupiter.

(upbeat music) - Hello, New Mexico and welcome to another episode of Around the Roundhouse, a podcast featuring the policies, politics, and personalities of the Land of Enchantment. I'm your host, Daniel Chacón. Our guest this week is State Senator Carrie Hamblin. A Las Cruces Democrat who is serving her second term in the New Mexico legislature. Hamblin, who is the president and CEO of the Las Cruces Green Chamber of Commerce, is known at the roundhouse for being a thoughtful and collegial legislator with a bit of a playful side. Hamblin, who always speaks in her radio voice, is a former broadcast journalist who spent more than 20 years working both behind the scenes and on air for local NPR affiliate, KRWG. She was recently honored by the New Mexico Foundation for Open Government as well as the New Mexico Press Association for her efforts to protect a free and independent press and help journalism thrive in New Mexico. In addition to being a legislator, as well as a business, journalism, and LGBTQ+ advocate, Senator Hamblin is cheese royalty. Yes, cheese royalty. Her great, great grandfather invented brick cheese, which I hope to talk about with Senator Hamblin here shortly. Senator, thank you so much for being our guest today. - Oh, thank you so much, Daniel. What a lovely introduction. Thank you. - Well, as somebody who is in journalism, I have to do it right, you know? - I appreciate that. I appreciate that, you know, that's the quality about journalists is that we know how to do research. - We know that's highly, right? - Yeah. - I'm sure that pays off in your work as both with the Chamber of Commerce, the Green Chamber of Commerce and is the legislator. But first, I wanted to ask you about kind of one of the biggest stories of the year in New Mexico is happening right in your Senate district, Project Jupiter, a hyper-scale data center from what I'm reading based on what's happening in Southern New Mexico. Community members are scared about the impacts on their water and air yet construction is ongoing. What went wrong with this project? - So unfortunately, this is a project that is really showing how you do not introduce a data center into a community. And it is an example all over the country. It goes back to kind of a bigger question of or a bigger concern is that communities depend on us for capital outlay money. So in Donorne County, which I have 36 colonias so that we need a lot of money for roads and for basic infrastructure. And so the county was looking at this opportunity to help fix a lot of those things that they're dependent on me for capital outlay work. So I understand the purpose. However, how it unraveled is problematic. There was an NDA involved, which I had recommended to our county commission. Like when if they're going to have you sign an NDA, you need to be very, very concerned about that. And then the whole idea of oh, we want the community involved and yet they had already started building. And now what has happened in over this series of the last 18 months is that even just recently, they filed Yucca Growth International, filed a new report that was over 100 pages long or a new application that was over 100 pages long, which is a completely different application from what they filed before. And so the people behind Project Jupiter have destroyed only trust with anybody in this community. So even if they did anything that we asked, well, not soak up all of our water that our farmers are using on a day-to-day basis or not polluting the air when we're already close to a border community and to a major metropolitan city with El Paso, not to increase their electric rates. So many different things, there's no trust whatsoever, no good will, this community doesn't want it. And all along, I've talked about, I'm not against economic development, but what I am against is economic development not driven by the people who are actually impacted by it. This is a project that is being driven by somebody who doesn't live in Las Cruces or in Southern New Mexico or by companies that don't even reside in this state. And so that's what's so problematic about this, is that there is no trust. We are a state that has very limited resources. But what you'll see, Daniel, is that you're seeing data centers trying to really rush their building projects throughout the country. We're seeing this all over the country, the communities are saying stop. And the reason why the data centers, the groups behind data centers, is because they're worried about the laws that are gonna be put into place because people are doing their homework and they're doing their research. That's why there's such a rush to get this project built. And that's what's so problematic. Senator, if the community doesn't want it, why did the Donan and the County Commission approve it? - That's a very good question. I mean, I think as I mentioned before, I think what they were looking at is an opportunity to get revenue that they would be able to take care of a lot of things, especially in the colonias that are in my district. We have got a lot of my capital outlay goes to roads and water pumps and infrastructure. - So I understand why it was looking like a good golden egg. But the thing is, is that as soon as they cracked it, as soon as that NDA was required, that's when we saw that that golden egg was spoiled. - And Senator, can you bring us up to speed on where things stand with this project? I mean, is, are we seeing a structure being built already? - There are structures out there, which is really concerning because you know, we've already seen kind of some history of the organizations or the companies behind Project Jupiter, to where they just recently did a forced measure, which means that they're not gonna be liable for this project not being completed on time and they're not gonna have to pay fees. We are seeing that their stocks are going down, the value of their stocks are going down because they're not getting this project, because the community is really digging their heels about this. And making, I think, a bigger stink about this than the people behind the Oracle and the Yucca Growth International and all of that, I don't think they were expecting this community to fight so hard, but that's why, 'cause I can guarantee you, Daniel, that if this was proposed up in Santa Fe, would it happen? Absolutely not, but in poor Southern New Mexico, one of the poorest counties in the state that doesn't have water. I mean, we are right before El Paso, when we talk about the water compact between New Mexico and Texas, we are a very rich farming community. That is what Las Cruces is based on is all the farming. And when we start sacrificing those resources that deserve to go to New Mexico residents and decide to go ahead and just hand it off for a couple billion dollars to a company that doesn't care about New Mexico, that's problematic. So yeah, it is being built, we're trying to slow it down, trying to do some things. You'll see some things coming up in the legislative session that are gonna make it really frustrating for these companies to operate in the state. - I'm glad. - Not against economic development, not against bringing revenue in, but not when it taps the resources that our residents so heavily depend on. - One of the things that we've heard in including from gubernatorial nominee Deb Holland is a moratorium. Do you anticipate that happening during the 60 day session and do you anticipate any pushback on that? - Oh, sure, I'm the one who's gonna be sponsoring the moratorium in the Senate. So I'm very excited about that. Because, you know, and some of my colleagues have said, well, is a moratorium really necessary and I'm like, have you been down to my community? - They want something, they need something to give them hope about this project stopping because they're terrified about their electric rates going up. The farmers are terrified about not having water. And we're also looking at our sky, our clean air, I mean, we have a large concentration of people with asthma because number one, we're in the desert, but also so we are close to El Paso and what is. And, you know, our situation is unique in that, they talk about that we're gonna hire a whole bunch of New Mexico residents. Most, at the border industrial complex, most of those employees are Texans, are people passing. There is no guarantee that their employee base is going to be New Mexicans. - I'm not gonna, I don't want money going out of our state. - I think I heard you say that it might, you know, whatever actions or steps are taken would slow it down, but it wouldn't, would it stop it? - At the moment, no, not yet. But, you know, I can tell you that there's going to be a moratorium that I'm supposed to, that I'm sponsoring in the Senate. Myself, I'm also working with some others. We're also going to bring up because of the most recent revenue and stabilization tax policy committee talked about IRBs. The IRB was really the golden ticket for this project, for the county. We are working on modifying IRBs so that this does not happen. And that the NDAs are not, you know, that this is not a public project. This is a private, private, secret private endeavor that is only gonna benefit people who are, We're following it and not to people who live here. So there there are going to be a number of bits of legislation. I know Senator Steinborn is going to bring up his microgrid bill again. So we're all working on that. There are going to be a number of bills that are going to be brought forward in the legislative session. That are going to be specifically addressing data centers in our state. I was one of the questions that I was going to ask you is what lessons can the rest of New Mexico learn from project Jupiter. And I think I've heard some of that, but are there any additional lessons that New Mexico can learn? Well, first and foremost, if you're going to say that you're going to involve the community, then actually do it. The residents down here don't forget and they're not going to forget. And you know, we saw this. We held a listening session in August because unfortunately my colleagues on the county commission were holding what they called listening sessions, but they either turned into a job bear or people were silenced or thrown to the ground and assaulted and arrested. And so my colleagues, Senator Sardin, Senator Solz and Senator Steinborn decided to hold a listening session where people's voices were actually hurt. And what was so heartbreaking, Daniel, is that we provided four ways for people to get their opinions heard. And our staff are still working on getting those questions from the departments because we invited all of the relevant departments to our listening session and did they come absolutely not. And that was really disappointing. It's where people could submit questions online. They could if they were watching via zoom, they could put them in the chat. We also had no cards that people if they wanted to do anonymously because they were worried about their jobs that they could do that. And then we had open Mike where people lined up to go ahead and ask those questions. And what was so heartbreaking to me, Daniel, is that we were getting to be around eight o'clock and we wanted to finish it around eight and there were still five people, five people left in line to ask questions. And so I said, if it's all right with my colleagues, because I was moderating it, if it's all right with my colleagues, I would love to let these last five folks get their voices and their opinions heard. And the look of shock on their face that, oh my God, they were actually being able to share their concerns is heartbreaking because that is what public discourse is about. And they were not getting it at the county commission meetings and they were getting it at our listening session. And so, you know, it's like if you're going to listen to people truly listen to people. You know, first and foremost, but also ask them, do they want this? Because this community doesn't want it and you're seeing moratoriums come up all over the state, not over the country, because other communities don't want them either. And yet this one is being forced down our roads because of some legal shenanigans and not only at the local level, but at the state level. And it's really concerning. So it's like, you know, if you be legit, be transparent, you know, everything changes from week to week with these folks who want to put in this data center. It changes on a regular basis. And so nobody believes anything they say there's no trust. We don't want the project. Get out. Senator, I don't want to put you on the spot here, but what do you make of folks associated with project Jupiter, contributing campaign money to deb Holland. That's concerning to me. However, I also understand that there are probably other conversations that are happening. I do know that she is in support of a moratorium. She knows that this community does not want that and support the idea of a moratorium. I know some of my other colleagues are going to be bringing forth an actual ban and some other bills on that. So I'm not sure if there's still a lot of stuff cooking right now at the time that we're recording this. For me, I don't take contributions from people if I'm going to lose sleep. That's kind of my philosophy is I don't want to lose sleep over something because it's way heavy on me. I can't speak for our gubernatorial candidates. I do have concerns about that and I certainly understand how that appears. You know, I'm like, you know, if it helps, you know, it's like does it help get her elected. Does it help pay for more commercials. You know, you kind of weigh that as a candidate. And I think those are probably the questions she's having asked herself on a regular basis. Senator, I wanted to switch over to your career. I feel a connection to you giving your broadcast journalism background. But if I read that you actually went into college as a mechanical engineering major. So how did you switch into broadcast journalism? So, you know, I grew up with a single mom who, you know, was like, you know, you want to go to school. You want to get a good career. You want to be able to support yourself. And I've always been a really handy person like my wife and I have this 1948 house that I get to do wonderful things with and make it hours, truly hours. And so I like to figure out how things work and how things are built. It's a mechanical engineering major. But in high school, I was the student body manager. And that means I was the one myself and my friend Mary and Ross. We were the ones who gave the announcements every morning over the PA system and read the Pledge of Allegiance and talked about what was on the food menu and what clubs will mean to you. And then I got to introduce the end of high school Golden Eagle marching band. And so I loved doing that in high school. And so when I went in as a mechanical engineering major, it was not how when you fall asleep and you know you're falling asleep and you kind of jerk yourself away because you feel like you're falling. Yeah, so I was in my intro to mechanical engineering class and I was falling asleep. And I had two dudes behind me laugh when I jerked myself away because I was just like, oh, that's not good. And it was at that point and I already started going, I don't know if this is for me. And it's, it's not that I couldn't do it because I've got that brain. But it was if I want to do it because as I mentioned, I had a single mom. And you know, I watched her not really be happy with her job. She was a nurse. She was a head nurse at a family practice clinic and it was a lot of work. And I watched my mom not be happy in it. And I was like, I want to make sure if I'm spending 40 hours a week or 50 hours a week in a job. And I was like, what am I good at and what am I like doing? And I was like, I, I like talking in front of people. So I changed my major to broadcast journalism. And that's what the degree I got from the University of Texas that I'll pass a white group and I'll pass. And then came to New Mexico to get a master's degree in communication studies. Also came to New Mexico state because of a girl. And then I stayed and also, but you know, honestly, New Mexico is a much safer place. If you are a queer person, New Mexico is a much safer place to be in Texas. My wife teaches at the university in El Paso and she could be fired at any moment. Because Texas doesn't have protections for LGBTQ people. So there's a reason why we live in New Mexico. So I went in as a radio broadcaster because I can speak clearly. And one of the things that it took me well to realize is that when I was in the third grade, we were in Germany. My father was in the military and we were stationed in onslaught Germany. And there was Mrs. Freeman and she was my English teacher. And this is a time when, you know, we would read things out loud from the chapters, you know, from the history books or whatever. I always raise my hand like I can read, I can read, I just like carry, we have to let somebody else do it and I was like, but I do it really well. And it sounds, it sounds really cocky, but I was also like, I mean, I, I can enunciate and, you know, say these difficult names every commencement at NMSU. I get a gig where I read names at commencement of the graduates walking across the stage and it's because a lot of people can't get those international names. And I love those international names. And for me, names are important. So I work really hard to get those names correct. And did you pursue radio or was there maybe an option to do TV? I, you know, and honestly, I knew I wasn't the TV face. Not that I'm not that I'm demeaning my parents, right. But I knew I wasn't the TV face, but also just because of the vocal, the vocal qualities that I have. It's very much a Midwest accent. My family is from Wisconsin. It's, it's kind of more the preferred accent when you hear it on broadcasting. And I could walk journalism. I was the editor of my third grade newspaper. I didn't realize this until I saw the memio graph sheet of paper that I was editor. My mom said, I always knew. And so, you know, I could have done print or radio, but I really, really enjoyed radio and enjoyed and I was good at reading out loud. And so that's why I stuck with it. Senator, what advice would you give to a young person who's considering a career in journalism? Well, you want to make sure that you go to a place like New Mexico that supports local journalists sets for sure. Because, you know, there are other, and there are other states that are starting to get on that bandwagon of starting to support local journalism. Because we're seeing how corporate bought journalism, you know, and I'll say, Gennad, Gennad is awful at supporting local papers. They buy them up and they swallow them up and then they spit them out into something that they weren't even before. And so, you know, it's it's mentor, get together with people who can mentor you, who can kind of give you the inside skinny on what it's like. But then also like volunteer, I volunteered at a radio station in El Paso, and my friend taught me how to work the board. And what thoughts were doing and at the time we had parks, which were eight tracks, you know, editing analog tape. So it's the real to real, you know, doing an edit with a razor blade and some splicing tape. You know, all of that stuff. And so it's just like there are opportunities to mentor and to follow around people. And I would recommend doing that before you figure out what you're going to do because overall, you are in a career, you want to make sure that you enjoy it and that you don't go home every day hating your job. For sure, my advice is always, you know, I worked for the student paper at you. UNM and it was like, try it out, see if it's for you. That would be my advice. But speaking of support for journalism, you will recently recognize by both the foundation for open government as well as the New Mexico Press Association. I know why, but help us understand our viewers and listeners understand why you will receive those recognitions. Well, you know, it's a really great honor. It's very humbling and it's not like I know many of myself, myself included and my colleagues don't do it for the recognition. But as I said before, we've even started recording that this was a month of recognition and very humbling is that, you know, our month of October started off with our Southern New Mexico Pride and I was the grand marshal and I used to run Pride many, many years ago. And then the Mountain Plains Library Association recognized me for my support of our public libraries. We have a go bond right now for the Thomas Brandt and Memorial Library and it's long overdue and needs all the help it can get. And so I've been very supportive of that through both my job, but also with capital outlay money. And then the foundation for open government is because of the insistence on transparency regarding Project Jupiter. And, you know, our, as I mentioned, our August 11th meeting really demonstrated that we are 16 on transparency and there should be no other bar. It should be that there's always transparency. And so that's where the foundation for open government recognized us and talked about the IPRES and all sorts of good stuff that I'm still very curious about regarding this project. And then with the New Mexico Press Association as the chair of the Tax Business and Transportation Committee, I typically am the one who sponsors the tax package. And myself along with Senator Peter Worth both recognized the importance of local media. And so we supported not only the tax credit that will help local papers and their specifically local papers and their parameters in there to help get a tax credit to hire local journalists and keep them here. And then also the other tax incentive was for printing plants because we only have two in this state. And many of our papers have to go out of state, which I don't like our money going out of state. Many of our papers have to go and get printed elsewhere. And because the two that we have are really overworked. And so it was interesting, Daniel, at the time that we were talking about this in the capital is that on the Gallup Independent had shut down during the session, it had closed. And how heartbreaking because local rural communities are heavily dependent on their local papers to get the information because we are in a consumer environment where people are always on their phones. They're not doing research on news items. Many people will see a headline on Facebook and believe that that's what the story is. And they won't look at see that it's an ad. They won't look to see that it's AI generated. All sorts of things. And so I think it's our job. Always a journalist. Always will be a journalist. I think it is our job to encourage people to be informed consumers. And when they don't have access to printed press or local press, then what they're doing is they're just succumbing to all the clickbait that you will see on social media and not becoming critical consumers of the news. And so that's why it was really important for me to support that because I think of our rural communities. And you and I were both at the Press Association and there's the El Rito paper. And then there's the Tows News. I mean, all of these rural communities are dependent on these little papers. Well, thank you. And the community. Thank you so much for what you have done and congratulations on those recognitions. I also wanted to ask you about your work as CEO and president of La La La Cruz's Green Chamber of Commerce. What do you do there and what does the green Chamber of Commerce do? So what's really fascinating is that I don't have a business background. I've always been an entrepreneur at heart. But in 2010, the Los Cruz's Green Chamber of Commerce was created because at the time in our local daily paper, we had this feature called the sound off. It was the worst piece of journalism but the most popular piece in the paper where people could call up and leave anonymous messages. It was trash. It was such trash, but it was so entertaining. And we had just gotten a national Italian restaurant chain. And the community was like, "Yeah, we're finally a real city. We've got this restaurant here." And we had three locally owned Italian food restaurants that were saying what about us. And so the founders of the Green Chamber were like, "We need to elevate the playing field for locally owned businesses." But we'd also be foolish not to recognize what reduced reuse and recycle. And my goodness, 350 days of sunshine, how that really impacts a small businesses bottom line. And so the Green Chamber was created. I joined in 2012. And it was, you know, I had to learn what a chamber did too. You know, the whole point of a chamber is really to uplift their members. In whatever way, I mean, it's a very general term, but to uplift their members. And so in our case, we do a lot of social media, a lot of social media training with our members. We do events, we do ribbon cuttings, we do spotlights, I do social media training, canva training, board training with our small businesses. The thing that we're most well known for and not just in Las Cruces, but throughout the country is our advocacy for connecting national monuments and local businesses. And so we have the Oregon Mountains Desert Peaks National Monument, this designated May of 2014. And it has been, you know, 12 years now. We made the argument and the Obama administration wanted to see how much money would go into a community if a national monument was there. So we commissioned a non-partisan economic impact study that showed at the time that there would be like $500,000 in local taxes, $7.4 million in local revenue and 84 jobs. Then, and just because it's so spread out, it's in four different sections in Dunianne County. And then in 2023, we commissioned another economic impact study. And that surpassed our 2013 results by 50%. Local businesses here capitalize, they cross brand the monument in their business. One restaurant, a locally owned queer restaurant, has the OMDP, so Oregon Mountains Desert Peaks cocktail, which is like a lavender lemonade and gin. And it's really good. - Yum. - And it will knock you on your heiny. You know, we have people who have the Oregon Mountains all over their buildings. They're named after them. And so really as an example in what we're known for throughout the country is helping connect those businesses with their national monuments. And so I've traveled to California, I've traveled to Maine, traveled to Vegas, Wyoming, Montana, to share with people what we've done because we've created a marketing toolkit that helps businesses become what I call thoughtful stewards of our public lands. And so that's what we get to do. - And if I remember correctly, I read somewhere that the designation of the mountains is a monument and getting to meet Obama was one of your most memorable moments. - It was, you know, because we, this was the day, the ceremony itself, the proclamation signing was taking place at the Department of Interior in the Yates Audit Forum. And then Secretary of Interior Sally Jewel was there and had come out to Southern New Mexico. She loves Southern New Mexico. I've shared with her my green chili reenal recipe, which for what girl is really good. It's a really good recipe. If you want it, you can email me at [email protected] and I'll be more than happy to give you my recipe. And so when I was there, we went through something called the clutch. And we were told, you know, we don't know whether or not you're, you know, you're gonna have time to meet the president. And this was the day the president walked from the White House down to the Department of Interior, which explained the snipers on top of the Yates building, which kind of tripped me out a little bit, but I got it afterwards. And so we went through what's called the clutch before we went on stage where he signed this. And I think Daniel, if you've been in my office, you kind of see my wall of fame of all that there. And so standing in line and seeing President Obama and really kind of how surreal it was. Because all his gestures that we saw, you know, he was messing with the rings on the three ring binder when he was speaking when he was citing my data from my report. You know, so I get up to him and I get introduced and he's like, you know, carry. Thank you for all your work on OOMDP. And I was like, Mr. President, thank you for your support of OOMDP. And I said, and my wife and I thank you because we were just, you know, married in 2013, legally married. And he looks at me and he goes, you're welcome. And puts his arm around me and takes the famous picture that is now in my office and on my phone and in my living room and in my room's house. So, you know, it was nice to have that and to be able to really make that connection. - Did you mention your, that your cheese royalty? - No, no, I did not. - So help us understand the story behind that and your great grandfather, great, great grandfather. - Great, great grandfather, John Jossi. It was in Wayne County, Wisconsin in the 18, 18, 1800s. I'd have to go back over the article that was there. But he was a cheese maker and at the time, cheese came in rounds, you know? And so he came up with brick cheese, which is not only the flavor, it's like a mile, it's like a monster, Midwest, you know, a monster for Midwesterners. And it's a mile cheese. And so that was the flavor. But then also this. shape. And he made it literally by pushing bricks on top of these curds. And it was easier to ship. Oh, it's easier to pack. You don't waste as much space when you're shipping, you know, cheese. So yeah, the brick cheese from John Chassee, many years ago my wife and I were in Madison, and we were visiting some friends. My wife was there for a workshop. And we went into a locally owned cheese store. And I was like, "Do you have a brick cheese section?" And they actually have like a section because here we don't sell brick cheese. But in the Midwest you do. And so she was like, "Yeah, the whole section's over there." And I was like, "And I said, my great, great grandfather invented brick cheese." And they're like, "John, John, John, John Chassee." And I was on a Zoom. Like in my first year as a senator, I was on a Zoom. And because, you know, the pandemic, and I made this comment about being cheese royalty and my great, great grandfather inventing brick cheese. And somebody in the chat, and I would know her face, but I don't know her name, she chatted with me instead. Are you talking about John Chassee? I was like, "How do you know that?" In her part time or her luxury time, she is a cheese historian. So she all around it. And I was like, "Oh, okay. But I hope to bring that up because I think it's funny. When we get the orange colored cheese on the floor, you know, I like to, and it's in a brick. And so I like to remind new members, I try to do it every year. We get new members just to remind them that I'm cheese royalty. And that's probably why my wife married me. But we do love cheese. I love it. So do I. Senator, thank you so much for spending time with us today. And anything you'd like to tell new Mexicans about, you know, what to expect in the upcoming session? You know, well, first, I do put a plug for amendment four because, you know, we had a hard time kind of scheduling this interview today because I actually have a full-time job. And I'm also taking care of an 84-year-old mother in El Paso and trying to do Senator stuff. So I do want to put in a plug for amendment four because this isn't about us making paychecks. This is about making sure that everybody who should be at the table actually can afford to be at the table. So I would appreciate people supporting that. And so folks who may not know that, that's a constitutional amendment to pay lawmakers a salary. Yes, legislators. We're the only state in the country that does not do that. So you get what you pay for. Okay, it's very clear. And, you know, so I'm not able to go to things. I think goodness, I have a district legislative aid who is brilliant and is able to answer questions for me when I'm working. And there are times where I can't go because I've got a job. And that's the problem. And Kay, former House representative Kay Buneca, and I know I'm saying her last name wrong and I'm so sorry Kay, that, you know, she just had a recent article about why she couldn't serve because she was raising a family. So that aside, please vote for constitutional amendment four. Secondly, we are a state that has a lot of money right now because of what's happening nationally in the war in the straight of four moves. So we have a ton of money. It sucks that it's based on a war, an unnecessary war. But we're going to try and do some stuff with that money. So I know there are conversations about tax packages going on, you know, about ways to fund certain programs. You know, one of the things that I'm very proud of this legislature is that, you know, when the federal government cut Medicare or cut health care subsidies and snap benefits that this legislature stepped up and made sure that people didn't go hungry and that people had access to their health care. So I have a feeling that we're probably going to be responding to a lot of that, which is the strategy of this administration is to go ahead and tap all your resources so you can't fight back. New Mexico is going to fight back. And we're going to take care of our residents. So affordability is a big deal. You know, people being able to buy houses and people being able to get into homes. And that really goes down to also, you know, addressing homelessness, addressing mental health. So we've got some really great conversations that are really excited about what's going to happen in this session. Just really quickly, one of the items that we've heard about for using that money are cost of living adjustments for retirees. Are you on board with that? Yes, I am. I am. Yeah. You know, there are things, you know, it's hard because like with the capital outlay money, it's really kind of like the hunger games. And I've used that as an example, it's like some people will win and some people won't. And you know, when you're running government and you have this, this windfall of money, it's like, what is the most dire right now? What do we, you know, and so I know that, you know, state employees have not always been at the front of this, but you know, last year that was their raise was snuck into the tax package, which I was very excited for. I giggled. Actually, I think you were in the room when I was there and I think I almost, I think I said I'm giggling because this is brilliant. And, you know, I think it's going to be addressing the most important and impactful issues that our state is experiencing right now, and making sure that people do not struggle. And so, you know, we'll have a new governor, we'll have an adjustment of that. But the nice thing is, is that we have people seasoned in the Senate who can kind of weather that those growing pains from a new administration. And I think we'll have, we'll have some, some good bills coming out of this. Well, people will see money come back into their pocket. Okay, sounds good. Well, I am excited about the 60 day and I look forward to working with you and again, congratulations on your well-deserved recognitions. And as always, thank you to our viewers and listeners for tuning into around the roundhouse. Join us every week as we talk to newsmakers in the political realm by subscribing to our podcast through Spotify, Apple, YouTube, or obviously, wherever you get your podcasts. But the latest developments follow our coverage online at SantaFanUmexican.com, where you can also subscribe to our political newsletter, The Roundhouse Report. Until next time, I'm Daniel Chacon, and this has been Around the Roundhouse.