Start Small and Keep Moving

Brought to you by the EveryDollar app. Start budgeting for free today. Normal is broke and common sense is weird. So we're here to help you transform your life. From the Ramsey Network and the Fairwinds Credit Union Studio, this is The Ramsey Show. I'm George Campbell here with Dr. John Maloney. Taking your calls at 888-825-5225. That's how you get on the air and have a conversation about your life and your money. Joshua kicks us off in St. Louis. What's going on, Joshua? Hey, thank you guys so much for having me on the show. I appreciate it. Absolutely. So a little bit about what's going on is it seems like we can't catch up financially. So me and my fiance, we have about $110,000 coming. And then what is going on is we have a house payment of $150,000 left between $150,000 and $180,000. We have two car payments. One's a Mini Coupe, and that is about $600 a month. And then we have a Chevy Colorado that is $738 a month. And it just seems like we are falling behind more than we are catching up. Yeah. Two car payments will do it to you. And you said the mortgage balance is $150,000 to $180,000? Yes. What's the monthly payment? That's the balance. The monthly payment is $1,500 a month. Okay. So as soon as the checks come in, you've got like $3,000 gone already. Yes, yes. Okay. And have you guys combined finances? Because the way you're talking, it sounds like you live together, your money is pooled together. Everything is pooled together. We live with each other. We have work. We have one bank account. We both have 401ks. But after that, we have, I don't know where else to begin with my financial. This is all new to me. We got you, man. You called the right place. We're probably going to tell you to sell the Mini Cooper at least. But I'm glad you called. John would have you sell it regardless of there being a loan on it. Just the Mini Cooper on principle. The miniature truck I could be all right with. But hey, no shade. I drove a Prius for a long time. We're on the same team. But there is some truth to this. We got to figure out what these cars are worth compared to what is owed on them and see if it's worth selling these things. Do you know the balance? This is like an important context for the call. Are you done with this? And what I mean by that is, are you done with the stress? Because here's the thing. You got two roads ahead of you. You can keep going the same road you're going on, drive the cars you want to drive, live in the house you want to live in. Y'all are making six figures, but you feel broke. You can keep doing that, and that's hard. Or you can have 24. Four months of challenging, a challenging road with you and your wife, and y'all can be free. Either path is hard. But if you're done with this, then George will give you the path that will get you there guaranteed. Every single time it works, if people just do it. Otherwise, we can just give you some principles, and we can sing Kumbaya and then call it. Yes, I am completely done with it. I mean, it's getting to the point where I'm about to refinance our truck payment. And we can get it down to. No, no, no, no, don't do that. Okay, we got you. We got you. Yeah, don't do that. If it has the word finance in it, let's just take that off the table. Yes. How about that? Fair deal? Okay, can I explain it really quick? You can. So, to refinance, I am going through Ally, and they have me at a 13.09% APR. Now, I was going to go to First Community Credit Union, and they offered me a 7%. 7.5% with adding on one more year. But my payment, instead of 7.38, it would go down to 4.38. Well, the goal is to throw more at the debt, not have a lower payment. Okay. Because if you could have a $100 payment, but that just means it's going to take even longer to pay it off, and even less is going to principal. So, have you figured out what both cars are actually worth? Have you sold them private party? No, not yet. I do believe the Mini Coupe would be around. A $28,000 sell, and then the Chevy Colorado, maybe a $20,000 to $22,000. Okay, and what's left on the loans? The loan for the Mini Coupe is $36,000, and then the Chevy Colorado is at $20,000. Oh, man. How are you that far underwater on the Mini Coupe? What happened? Did you roll over negative equity? No. We both had jobs where we got it, and then one of us lost our job for a little bit, and then I took over more of the payments because I can work more. I can work more overtime, so I'm working about 50 to 55 hours a week. How much does she work? Actually, it's a he. Okay. He is working 35 to 40 hours a week. 30 to 40 hours a week, making 30 bucks an hour. Okay, so here's what I'm going to recommend. I would split your finances for the purposes of this debt payoff journey, and you focus on your consumer debts, and he focuses on his consumer debts, and then we can attack this a little more strategically, because right now, it's all pooled, and it's depending on who's more motivated and whose debt comes first. Instead, if you just made a list of all of your debts, how many are there? I have the truck payment and the household. Payment, if you want to. The mortgage is in your name only? It's in both of our names. Okay. So if you sold this truck, you would be completely consumer debt-free? Yes, yes. And you'd walk away with two grand. You said it's worth 22, you owe 20. So there's some good news there. You are pretty close to being completely debt-free. Do you have anything saved up in the bank right now? We have about $700 combined. Okay. So here's baby step one. $1,000 and a starter. I want both of you to have your own $1,000 starter emergency fund. And you can do that with the next paycheck. But that means is we're not eating out. We're not going to invest a dime into those 401ks. We're going to pause all of that down to zero. We're going to start selling stuff around the house on Facebook Marketplace. We're both going to pick up a side job to do these journeys together. Now, the cool news is you have some built-in accountability. You have someone else to say, hey, remember we said we're not going to do that. But the other person needs to be just on board as you are. Otherwise, you're just. I'm just going to be dragging them along with you. Okay. So do they feel the same level of urgency that you do? Because you're the one calling in. It doesn't seem like it. Okay. Yes, it doesn't seem like it. Okay. That's why I would separate and say, hey, that mini-coop, that's your debt. This truck is my debt. I'm going to focus on getting rid of this debt. You can keep it if you want based on your income. But it feels like you have the urgency to go, I just want to be free. And if you can scrape together $5,000 and use the two that you profit, from the truck, you go get yourself a $7,000 vehicle for now and free up that payment. Okay. And here's the thing. Here's the reason, like the meta reason why we're telling you to separate is call after call after call after private conversation I have with folks. Two people are dating. They share everything. And one person ends up paying the other person's truck off. And I don't want to project this on you, but then there's a breakup down the road. And there is zero recourse. None. There's nothing you can do to get that money back. There's nothing you can do. And so you end up having paid somebody else's debt, and then they're gone. And I wouldn't wish that on anybody, but that's what I'm saying here. So, yes, y'all each take full ownership of your debts. And, man, it sounds like y'all need to have a values conversation too, which is are we aligned on we want to be free as a couple, as a household, or I'm going to do this by myself. And this is going to be a value set that I have. And the hardest thing about this is not making the debt the villain. Instead, it's looking in the mirror and going, hey, it's not the mortgage that's the problem. It's not the car payment. It's the guy in the mirror. Please don't refi and play a shell game with debt. Just burn right through it and get it paid off. A lot of banks are happy to hold your money, but Fairwinds Credit Union helps you make progress. Most people spend years focusing on their financial goals and never stop to ask whether their bank is helping them get there or just holding onto their money. The real goal is building an emergency fund, paying cash for your next car, saving for a home, looking at your finances and actually feeling some peace. That's why I love Fairwinds. Their smart bundle gives you up to 10 free high yield savings accounts to help you stay organized as you save for different goals. Plus early direct deposit and no monthly fees. And you get support from real people who want to help you win with money. You can even get the Ramsey debt is normal, be weird debit card, which is linked to your free Fairwinds spend smart checking account to tell the world you think differently about money. So look, if you're working the baby steps, your bank should be helping you move toward financial freedom, not just park your cash. Go to fairwinds.org slash Ramsey to open your bundle and start making progress today. That's fairwinds.org. Insured by the NCUA. Lewis is in Providence, Rhode Island. What's going on, Lewis? How can we help? Hey, guys. How are you? Doing well. Listen, I am calling in a longtime listener, first-time caller. But it's really just focused on this affordability crisis we're all dealing with. It's no secret. But I'm a young adult, and I just feel stuck in so many different aspects of having to navigate it. And I just kind of wanted to maybe touch on some things with you guys and see what you think. Yeah, let's zoom in. Affordability crisis is like a great headline for the news, but it doesn't speak to the daily reality. Like, are we talking I can't afford DoorDash or I'm going to be evicted from my apartment? There's a big difference. No. So I live at home still, and I am trying to navigate the next steps of a relationship, moving out into my own place. Do I rent? Do I buy? Next steps of my career, it hasn't expanded as fast as I thought it would, having the degrees that I do. I graduated with my bachelor's in 21 and then my master's in 22. What's your master's in? I have my MBA. And I. I work in human resources, and I did that as a concentration in school. And every job that I apply to, it's like, oh, this is an entry-level position, and then they want three to five years of experience. And it just boggles my mind. It's like, what are we doing? So I don't want to be an old guy because the affordability crisis, like, things are much more expensive. There's no question about it. Okay? Right. But what I'll tell you is, as a guy who got his master's degree and then got my first PhD, I had the exact. Same experience. Yeah. And what I think that has shifted is, I went in knowing I've got to work this job, and I did it at university. I got to go get this associate dean of students job, and I got to adjunct at three different colleges in the evenings and on Saturdays, and I got to work on a PhD at the same time. That was just what I knew to be true. And what I hear now is, I don't want to do the other stuff. I thought that when I got this thing, it would just, like, the gravy train would roll out. And I think that's new. And so telling you, like, dude, as a. I've never not lived with a roommate, ever. Yeah. Even before I got married. Like, that was just what we did. And even when we had a nice apartment, there were several of us living there. And so it's you saying, okay, I had this dream. And maybe somebody told you this, and they did. I will say this. You were sold a bill of goods. If you just get MBA, you're going to make $250,000. And you can do whatever you want. And you'll buy a house as soon as you're out. That's not true. Right. That's not true. And it was much easier for me, relatively speaking, to go buy a house. No question. The math was in John's favor a little more. But the work ethic and the, I got to get roommates. I got to get friends. I'm going to live in an apartment. I'm going to have a good life. And I'm going to have to work in the evenings, in the weekends, so that when I get my three or five years, I'm going to be super far ahead of the next person in the interview line. Right. So it's both. Yeah. Yeah. And I wouldn't even necessarily disagree with you. I definitely think that's where my headspace was at. Like, I have certain expectations for myself, and I had expectations for myself at that time. I don't know if it was just with the way that the pandemic rolled out and the timing of when I did it. That was awful. Awful. It was awful. Absolutely. And, I mean, fortunately, I was commuting to a school that was right down the street from me. And I don't have any student loan debt. I was able to work through school and pay my way through it, pay my way through my master's. So what are you unable to do right this second? Besides go buy a big, nice house, right? Yeah. And, by the way, I didn't have a house without Formica countertops until just, like, a house or two ago, right? So what are you not able to do right this second? Not that you realize, I wish I could do it and I just can't. What are you not able to do right now that you think you're getting ripped off that isn't fair? You know, I feel like I'm kind of— Do you get the difference of the question? A little bit, yeah, for sure. And I'm glad you can kind of re-navigate me here. I've got, you know, notes here and all these things I wanted to talk about. But for me, it definitely feels more like I'm feeling stuck in what I'm doing. Maybe I'm not making enough to start my life. Fortunately, I'm not. Unfortunately. I'm in a debt situation. My parents are fortunately not charging me rent right now, so I'm able to save as much as I can, and I have a nice little nest egg going. But, you know, I can afford these rates. I can afford to put, you know, a mortgage, you know, just by myself. And my girlfriend has a lease until April, so there's a timeline here. But for me, it's like, is it smarter to rent by that time? Yes. If it's smarter to buy and be putting equity into an asset. And am I, because I'm only making, you know, like $40,000 a year in my current job. And how old are you? Given, I'm 28 years old. Okay. Given my education background, given, you know, how motivated I am to grow in my career, am I in the right career? You know, I. Well, you've got a concentration in human resources, you said, right? Right. So you want to be in leadership in human resources. If I snap my fingers. Yeah. Do you still like that job? It's going to take five years of doing what you're doing to get into the leadership role that gets you to the next leadership role. So just know, they don't hand out leadership roles just because you got the MBA. It's going to take a grind. But it may not be as long as you think. If you, I mean, you're a sharp guy. This could happen a lot sooner for you than most people. But let's focus on a one-year goal versus the, well, I really wanted to have the six-figure job with a house. Tomorrow and be married. Let's just focus on one thing at a time. So you have no debt. You're making $40,000 a year. And how much do you have in savings? My savings account right now is about $23,000. Great. So let's call that your emergency fund plus some. Maybe it's a future down payment. Maybe it's an engagement ring. Who knows? You've got a lot going on in the next couple of years. Sure. So I would not be like, I've got to be investing and I need to be saving. I think you're trying to do a lot of good things at once and you're not making progress. And part of it is your income. You're right. You should be making more as a guy with a couple of degrees by 28. Like the average college student. So then can you go, all right, is this company not paying me enough? What is the market rate for this kind of position? Should I try to be applying for other companies? Or do you have to have a heart? I just recently talked to a friend of mine who's a tenured professor and we're walking through their finances. This is just on a personal call. And I said, I hate to break your heart here, but you would make more money if you became the manager of a local Starbucks. Yeah. And if you're, if you, and you want to do this job, you want to talk about this particular subject with new students, it's fun, it's awesome, it's a great life, but you're making a choice to not go make more money and have a different kind of life because you want to do this thing. And so you kind of ironic because I, you know, like daily I'm jumping on LinkedIn and indeed, and I'm looking up career advice coach. Um, and here I am on the call with you guys, or I'm, I don't know if you've heard of like strawberry, it's like another, you know, website. Yeah, but, but I worked with a great career advisor and I'm connected with her and it's fantastic. But like, like the fulfillment that I get from having conversations sometimes with people about their career aspirations and their finances and things like that. Like, I would love to be in you guys' seat. You know what I mean? Like, it's just like, it's just ironic that here I am in this like crisis, you know, I'm, I'm here with all these notes and I'm like, okay, well, what's my next step? And maybe it's just cause I overthink everything, but it's like. But yes, there's that. Most people in their twenties are on the struggle bus trying to figure it out. So just know you're not the only one going like, I'm not where I want to be yet. You shouldn't be. You're in your twenties. Most people my age are still trying to get where they're, where they're going. You're lucky you're figuring this out in your twenties and not in your forties or fifties. Yes. So you're in actually in a really good spot. If we just find a better job, half of your problems are solved. Cause now you can save more. Or if you stay in that job and you do some adjacent things, like if you go, um, I went and ran with the crisis team. And helped out police officers in the middle of the night. And I got paid like seven bucks an hour to do that. Right. And then on the side, I went and you have a master's degree. You could teach, you could adjunct business classes online for a company. I mean, for a, for a university. And then when your three to five year window comes through and you've been working in human resources, then all of a sudden you've got a really nice resume where you've sat with hurting people, like big time hurting people. And you've been doing the thing day in and day out. And you've got some education where you're back in the classroom. Now you got a wide portfolio, but some of this, like George, you just nailed it. No one is going to put you in charge of a thing, unless you've done that thing for a while. They shouldn't at least. And so you can out degree your experience and you're just going to have to ride that out. But bro, you're in a way better position than you think you are. ♪ Hey guys, it's Rachel Cruz. If you're working the baby steps, every major expense deserves a second look. 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That's chministries.org slash budget. Greta is in Pittsburgh up next. Greta, welcome to the show. Hi, wow, excited to talk to you guys. Thank you. You made it. Thanks for calling. What's up? Glad to talk to you. It feels weird. I'm glad it's you guys and not Dave. I'm a little scared of him. We are too. We are. Lots of respect. Nah, Dave's great, man. What's up? He is. Anyway, so my husband and I are working on our wills and we do not have a lot of assets right now. We're working on that. But we both have a million dollar life insurance policy each and we have four soon to be five kids. So I don't know. I'm going to the worst case scenario. But like if we both die, do we want them as a secondary beneficiary and how do we set that up? That's a great question. What's the age ranges? I've never heard you guys talk about this. So right now we have an eight-year-old and then one due in December. Okay. We've got eight, five, three, one, and one on the way. Wow, that is a party. Dude, your house. Yeah, dude. It is a disco ball in the living room of that house, man. Good for y'all. The fact that you're asking this tells me that you are doing a great job with your estate planning to even be thinking about this. So I'm just so proud of you for calling in with this kind of question. And it's a good one because you've got to think about those scenarios, the what-if scenarios, because they could happen. And so there's something you can do. So a simple will is a great, great start. People then go, well, I heard I need a trust. Well, it's not always true. There's ways to set this up where you don't need a complicated, super expensive trust to get started. You might just need a testamentary trust that's inside the will. Okay. So that can then specify. So you and your spouse, he'd be the beneficiary on yours. You'd be the beneficiary on his. And then a secondary, you can have the kids as beneficiaries, but you don't want them as first because the life insurance company cannot write a check to a 10-year-old. Right, right. So it would go to whoever the guardian is. Have you guys selected that? Okay. Yes. So we do have a guardian. It's my brother's husband, or my husband's brother. Okay. Wow, we're getting weird now. My husband's brother, and he is at the moment the secondary beneficiary. Is that how we would do it? And then specify in the will how the money would go? Well, I wouldn't make him the beneficiary of the money. You can still make it the kids, but then they would be an appointed trustee. So with the testamentary trust inside the will, you can then name the trustee and name the guardian. So the trustee manages the money, the guardian takes care of the kids. They don't have to be the same person, and sometimes shouldn't be. Some people are great with kids, terrible with money, or the opposite. Yeah, I kind of feel like it should be different people. That's the way my will, we ended up, we've got more than one property, so we ended up with a trust, but that's the way mine is. The one person that I've trust, with the money that will be the executor, and then the people who would take my kids. But I want, with two million dollars, I would guess, you're not gonna need two million dollars in cash to raise five kids, right? So you might think at 21, we want to distribute some of this money at 25 or whatever. So that's when a trust could help you. And instead of naming the kids directly inside of that life insurance policy, what you do is once you have the will in place, and you have the trust, the testamentary trust, you can then name the trust created under your will as the contingent beneficiary. So that's how we have it in my house, for example. - Okay. - And then the trust lays that all out. So the testamentary trust inside the will can say, "Hey, they're gonna get this much at this age, this much at this age, and the rest at 35." So you can actually set up some staggered distributions, 'cause otherwise, the kid turns 18, they get whatever's left, or it gets split among them. - Yeah, don't want that. - And you don't necessarily want that, 'cause I remember myself at 18. - But you also, something to think about, you've got five kids, okay? If your brother-in-law suddenly has his own family and suddenly has five more kids, he might need a new house. - Right, he already has two. - Okay, he might for sure need a new car, right? And so sometimes these things can get, you can cap the person who's taking your kids by saying, "Only for expenses and food," right? Or whatever. - Right. - Then your kids can't get the soccer practice, 'cause all he has is a Jetta, right? So it's thinking through it big, but. - I hope this is all hypothetical, and Greta. - It is, it is. - I gotta make it clear, John and I are not lawyers as much as we could have an awesome law firm. - Yeah, please don't listen to us. - Deloney and Campbell, Esquire. No, but I would reach out to an estate planning attorney to get the specifics, and every state has different laws. And so I'd reach out to a good estate planning attorney in your area and explain, "Hey, here's what we're trying to do. What's the simplest, cheapest way to set this up? I don't wanna set up a huge, expensive trust that we don't really need. Can we just do a testamentary trust?" - If I have a second, that's a secondary question, is like, what would be a reasonable expense for that? Do you have any ballpark numbers or? - Well, the testamentary trust should be like a couple of hundred bucks versus a couple of thousand dollars for a full-blown revocable trust that you would set up. And so that's kind of the ballpark. Again, it's gonna depend on the complexity in your area and who you contact. But I would just get a couple of quotes, say, "Hey, here's what I'm trying to do. Can you help me set this up?" And MamaBearLegal.com is a great place to start to do a simple online will, and then they can tag on top of that with their trust. So that'll at least be a good starting point. Have something now. Don't wait until you have the attorney to set this all up. Just go ahead and get something in place. - And I'll tell you this, coming from, my first will I ever made was in Texas, where there's basically no probate. And I've learned now that I don't live in that state anymore and I talk to people over the country more than I ever did, man, some states have probate that is wild. Like the judge wants to approve every T-shirt that is bought for a child. So I think for me personally, that would play into it also. - Okay, and do you get around that by having someone administering the trust? - Yeah, if you have the testamentary trust, then it bypasses the probate process and you set up all the details through that will. - Okay. That's the thing I'm most concerned about is just that my kids are taken care of. - And I'll tell you for a couple thousand bucks, if that's what it ends up being, we'll do soup to nuts for a couple, to me, that is a, what I would classify as a sole tax. I'm asleep at night, I paid a couple grand, it's expensive. I'm all good with that. If somebody comes back and says 15,000 or something out of the woods, then find somebody else. But for something, what it sounds like what you're dealing with is relatively simple. You don't have 50 properties and you don't have, - Right. - Or you don't have two properties. Like this is just, I wanna make sure our kids are lined up and if something happened to us, they'd have a ton of money coming their way. That's a good idea to think through it. - And Greta, because it is National Make a Will Month, which I'm celebrating all month long, I'm actually gonna gift you, I'm gonna gift you a free will through Mama Bear. So hang on the line, we'll send you that. And on top of that, but wait, there's more, John. We've got our Investing Essentials event coming up and we actually are dedicating night two, all to this estate planning topic of, how do I not just build wealth, but then protect it? How do I protect it from the government's grubby hands with taxes? How do I be strategic there? - How do we pass it on? - How do I pass it on without destroying my children and making sure that I leave the legacy I want? And so Investing Essentials is coming up and I'm gonna gift you a live stream ticket to that so you can access the virtual event. So you're getting the whole kit and caboodle here, Greta. Congratulations, very exciting. For anyone else that wants to join us, Dave and I will be doing this event September 1st and 2nd, two night virtual event called Investing Essentials. We're gonna unpack Dave's investing plans. We're gonna talk about how to build wealth and playbook wealth planning as well. And he's gonna talk about, kinda unlock, hey, here's what the Ramsey family does. Here's the conversations we have behind the scenes. Here's the things that Dave has set up to avoid paying a bajillion dollars in taxes legally. So we're gonna cover a bunch of that in this event with all new content, reducing taxes, 529 plans, how do I build wealth for my kids now that I've built it for myself? How do I pass on character and wealth? That's a good thing to do. Tickets start at 199 bucks. mzsolutions.com/events or click the link in the show notes if you're on podcast and YouTube and John even as we've been exploring this event creating the content it is fascinating how much stuff that there is to know yeah there's so much out there and you're like what do people need to know because we're trying to pack this into two hours per night and you're going how do we do like a master class on this without overwhelming with nerdery and jargon so I I'm glad you said that here's an important thing I want people to know about the wills versus trust conversation I think people get into it and they realize there's so much to it and it just creates inertia so hear me say every person everybody 18 or older needs a will period get a will start there and then if things get more complicated then go from there but yes if you want to good on every rabbit hole man they'll it's like yeah you can go and we're going to actually walk through the wills versus trust situation probate all of that in the event but you're right John every single person get a will if you love your family get a will if you don't you do what you want yeah that's right hey I want to talk to you for a second about love and not love like in Titanic or something I mean responsible love the kind of love that moves you to take care of the people closest to you and one of the most important ways to show that kind of love is by having term life insurance if you have anyone depending on you a spouse kids anyone you need term life insurance term life insurance gives your family real protection if the unthinkable happens so they can spend their time grieving and not worrying about how the bills are going to get paid Xander is a broker who works for you and I'm going to talk to you about that in a little bit but first I want to thank you for for you shopping the top companies to find the right coverage options for your needs and your budget in many cases there are options available with no medical exam and instant approval my wife and I had term life insurance through Xander for years long before I worked at Ramsey because we trust them getting term life insurance is a way of saying I love you when you can no longer say it yourself go to Xander.com or call 1-800-356-4282 to find the coverage that fits your family I hope you enjoyed this video and I'll see you in the next one bye for now. Ashley is in Dallas Texas up next what's going on Ashley how can we help Hi yes so I am kind of in a bit of a pickle I'm trying to figure out what to do about my car I amongst other things but essentially I'm a little bit of background I'm a single parent um I have a toddler and I also have a disability um so I've been kind of struggling to figure out what to do for work for quite a while even before baby um but I'm just now trying to figure out some type of job situation and get back to work um however I've been using my car for a while now and I'm trying to figure out what to do about my car and I'm trying to figure out what to do about my car and I'm trying to figure out what to do about my car and I'm trying to figure out what to do about my car and I'm trying to figure out what to do about my car and I'm trying to figure out what to do about my car and I'm trying to figure out what to do about my car and I'm trying to figure out what to do about my car and I'm trying to figure out what to do about my car and I'm trying to figure out what to do about my car and I'm trying to figure out what to do about my car and I'm trying to figure out what to do about my car and I'm going trying to figure out what to do about my car and I'm going to. And so you're going to find yourself pushed to knocking on doors for help go ahead and do that now and if you can't if it I mean man I can't even imagine being at war with my own body like you are right like man I can't get that because I don't experience it but intellectually I just think that'd be a nightmare make it a part-time job for you to constantly be looking for resources and calling people and not just sending out blanket emails but calling and calling and calling and even if you're laying down on the couch calling for resources and support reaching out to neighbors again going to a local church and saying hey i need some support do y'all have any any resources here um like you've you cannot do this next stage by yourself okay yeah it's ad it's beyond admirable that you're fighting this health battle and you're trying to squeeze in what work you can and raise a kid by yourself i mean you have strength that i could only dream of having and you've reached the end of that of your ability to carry all this by yourself is that fair yeah okay you're worth having people in your corner but people in your community have to know they need to be in your corner okay and it was you're gonna get a lot of no's you're gonna get a lot of frustrations i want you to keep looking at that baby i want you keep looking at yourself in the mirror and keep plugging ahead i'm proud of you for getting a doctor's appointment who's paying for that appointment um yeah there's a ms group or organization sorry i love it and i was hoping that there would be organizations that would help with medicine costs and things like that especially for folks in your financial situation and your single mom situation um become your own you and your child's best advocate and sometimes advocacy is rolling up your sleeves and getting a sword out and going fighting and sometimes advocacy is finally having the courage to say i need a bunch of help i need a bunch of help right now and so make that your other part-time job right now because you're you're running out of you're running out of runway and i'm worried about you and i'm worried about that baby yeah at the root here there's a lot of people who are worried about you and i'm worried about that baby there's an income problem and beneath that there's the physical health so if we can get our health in order and managed now we can fight and go work we can get our income up and then we can get to a better place and upgrade the car but right now selling the car does pretty much nothing for you other than maybe turn into a different repair on a different car and so i don't want to trade one problem for another right now let's focus on your health and your income first thanks for the call i'm all about practical ways to save time and mental energy especially during the summer when life gets busy between vacations camps deliveries travel plans online shopping and trying to keep everyone organized my mental load can get pretty full that's one of the reasons why i love delete me most people don't realize how many data broker sites have their information online like old addresses phone numbers and emails and all that kind of stuff so i'm going to talk about that in even family connections and that can put you at risk of being a target for spammers and scammers but removing all of it yourself can turn into a giant project that's why delete me is amazing because delete me handles it for you their privacy team of experts removes your personal information from hundreds of data broker sites and they keep monitoring it throughout the year so far delete me has saved me about 90 hours i would have spent myself removing my information and honestly it feels so good knowing that someone is in the background helping me and i don't even have to think about it so this summer give yourself a vacation with one less thing to manage get 20 off annual plans at join delete me.com slash ramsey that's join delete me.com slash ramsey welcome back to the ramsey show in the fairwinds credit union studio i'm george camel joined by dr john deloney taking your calls at triple eight eight two five five two two five rainisha is in los angeles up next what's going on rainisha how can we help yes hi um so i wanted to know uh should i return a cruise that i paid for on my credit card now that i'm starting baby step number two wow so the cruise hasn't happened you booked it and you're going to be able to pay for it you're telling me you can get a full hundred percent refund i would pay a hundred dollar penalty fee and then the rest of it will be refunded yes i would do it yesterday because that hundred dollar penalty fee is so much smaller than the interest you will pay on that credit card bill and it will jump start you like in three or four months when you get tired of this thing and the grind of paying off your debt is really kicking you you're going to remember no screw that i gave up a cruise for this we're doing this okay how much money will you get back um it will be i was 900 so 852 dollars okay great how much debt do you have total all together including my student loan debt 255k okay so this cruise is symbolic this is not like the difference maker and you becoming debt free or not this is you drawing a line in the sand saying i'm done are you a physician no i am a mental health therapist what are you making oh no um currently um i'm still an associate so about 70 000 a year well once i'm licensed i'm due to make much more not that not john can tell me how much an average mental health therapist makes who's licensed i'm guessing like over maybe over 100 grand but not quite 150 definitely over six figures yeah i would say that okay what kind of mental health therapy are you talking about clinical therapists i do cognitive behavioral therapy do you have your own practice dbt no no no i work on under a private practice and your private practice is going to pay you as a clinician over six figures no as a licensed professional not my private practice i'd probably end up in a um either doing my own practice or doing like grow therapy or headway one of those platforms like that it's all based on how many clients you take the more clients you take the more money you get um i mean you owe you owe a lot of money yeah what what other kind of debt is this so 209 is student loans okay uh 24k is my car payment and 22 is a credit card payment or credit card oh goodness okay so you had this is the same credit card you used to book the cruise yes what is your credit limit on this thing um well it's a credit card it's a credit card it's a credit card it's a credit card it's two different credit cards altogether that make the 22 but the one that the cruise is on is a 17 000 credit limit okay and you're ready for baby step two you called in saying hey i'm trying to start baby step two should i return the cruise so are you full throttle on this thing are you ready to cut up the cards yeah that pause was so long because race you here here's what you're clients full time and then you see in groups on saturday morning and you doing private practice work if your site will allow it if the contract you have allows it and you see people in the evenings and you get a contract with the police department to go do like crisis work in the like you're going to be working all the time for three years and you just have to say i want him to be a mental health professional that can sit across from my clients and i'm fully whole because i have agency and autonomy on my own life just like you're going to try to help your clients with right absolutely yeah so you just have to know the same as you would say like with a client you want to go from a to b it's going to be tough and you have to make some transitions and i'm going to walk with you you're going to have to make that same commitment to rainisha is that fair mm-hmm that's absolutely fair yeah are you single i am are you renting i am okay you got your own place i do all right i'm trying to think of some solutions here what's your rent every month 1271 okay that feels oh well so they asked for the nearest okay major city got it good for you and what's the car worth um worth uh or what's oh i'm not sure you owe 24 so what is it worth let's say you sold it private party could what could you get for it you think um probably like 20 okay two two-year-old car with low miles but you're still a little bit underwater on it all right i'm just trying to find some quick fixes here to get you some margin because i'm guessing right now if you did an every dollar budget you laid out your income for the month which i assume is i don't know how much you're taking home is it like four grand a month yeah okay so four grand a month is what you're taking home are you doing any investing right now i do have some investments um uh but i don't know the market doesn't seem to be making me any money right now but yes i do well let's just pause that the good news is you don't need to look at the stock market for a long time yeah you're good you're not going to be a player in it so i would pause all investing do you have anything that's non-retirement that's invested uh yes like single stocks or something yeah some market mutual funds i think they're called how much is in there like 1200 okay and so you'll leave the stock market for a long time and then you're going to have to at least have a starter emergency fund do you have anything else in savings um just general savings i have 8k oh great well that's an uh uh hysa yeah yeah okay but you're telling me that you could scrape together like nine grand right now yeah on top of the 850 from the cruise let's call it 10 grand you have to start so a thousand dollars is your starter emergency fund which means nine grand can go to your next smallest debt that'd feel pretty good to make some progress now you're halfway through that first debt almost halfway yeah is the credit card is that the next smallest debt uh that the other credit card is the next smallest debt the one that the cruise is on is the second one what's that smallest credit card balance right now um 8300 boom done you just paid it off done how good does that feel one debt down and then you're gonna cut it i would cut up both cards because the good news is they'll still let you pay them off even if you close the card and cut it up and so if you're serious about this that's what you need to do because you're here you put the cruise on the credit card you're likely you're likely going to get a credit card you're likely going to get a credit card you're likely going to put other things on the credit card if it's still available to you so as a promise to yourself i would get rid of them yeah it's the same as if somebody came in and you're running a group on a saturday morning and you're talking to brand new folks who are walking into aa you'd say the first thing you gotta do is got to get rid of all the alcohol in your house yeah that beer fridge in the garage has got to go yeah fridge in the garage got to go the secret stash under the counter's got to go everything's got to go mm-hmm because right now how much margin do you have every month to throw at the debts none not much yeah exactly and so if let's say you put 500 a month towards the debts guess what it would take you uh forever eternity to pay it off so instead what if we made a plan to pay this off in like four years that's 63k a year that's a little over five grand a month now we have a very tactical goal of what we need and you just told me you make four grand a month so you can see there's a big math problem here which is why john was saying you got to get nine jobs for the next couple years and you're gonna have to there's gonna be a strong possibility you have to swallow your pride on some things you have a graduate degree you are a mental health professional and saturdays and sundays you're at walmart or best buy 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dot ai slash ramsey that's net suite dot ai slash ramsey ramsey today's question of the day is brought to you by why refi when private student loan payments start getting away from you it can feel like you're paying for decisions you made years ago why refi helps borrowers explore low fixed rate refinancing options and pay for student loan payments payments designed around your current situation visit why refi dot com slash ramsey may not be available in all states today's question comes from garrett in iowa garrett writes i'm 64 i'm married and will start drawing social security in january we're consumer debt free with a paid off house dude well done man we have about seventy thousand dollars in retirement and about six hundred thousand dollars in cds which are about to mature cd rates have plummeted recently and the best interest rates we can currently find is about three point five percent what should we do with the cash as the cds mature we'd like to get about twenty five grand from both the four one k and cash to use each year to combine the social security number with our social security which would leave us about forty five grand a year okay well let's talk about cds these are called certificates of deposit and people in their sixties love these for some reason my my own dad would like text music hey like i'm looking to get into some cds i'm like why why because usually what it is it's people who are scared to put their money into the market because they don't want to lose it which is a valid fear right except my savings accounts about three and a half that's what he's saying he's saying the best interest rate i can find right now as the cds mature he's like hey once i'm done the best place i can find is maybe a high yield savings at three and a half percent and he's saying i want to do better than that why would somebody put their money in a cd at three and a half or put their money in a high yield savings account at three and a half but cds lock your money up that's the problem the cds have to mature to be able to do better than that to actually get that interest rate and they used to be much higher now high yield savings accounts are pretty comparable to a lot of cds you can get your money whenever you want now the high yield savings accounts is a variable rate so that rate can change tomorrow can go lower the cd you've locked your rate for that period of time for that three years for worse for better and for worse race could go up and you don't get to see that so what i would do personally is sit down with an actual financial advisor map out a plan to help this money grow for you because if this is essentially they got seven of retirement so to their name they have about 650 grand in a nest egg that's not a huge amount no to go from 64 because if we know the stats if you make it into your 60s there's a good chance you make it into your 80s yeah and so think about what the next 30 years looks like for this money because if you were in the stock market the last five years your money would have doubled and so i don't want you to be spooked by the market because you know you want to keep your money more liquid i would put a huge chunk of this into the market and a good financial advisor can help sort of squash the fears you have and put you into things that basically track the market good growth stock mutual fund over time will net you probably nine ten eleven percent returns which is far better than the three and a half that we're talking about here now in the meantime the next year it could be down ten percent down fifteen percent up twenty percent we don't know but we do know that the longer it's in there the higher chance you have of making money so if it's money you don't need for the short-term future i would be investing it instead of saving it that's the key and let me just say this this isn't a huge nest egg um there is a chance what is it every seven years so at 71 that this 600k is 1.2 right if it's invested well and the market returns over the next seven years but here's what's awesome you've set yourself up garrett you don't owe anybody anything not for credit cards not for cars not for your house so well well done dude you've taken so much risk off the table and now it's just a matter of using this money wisely not using this money desperately so good job dude thanks for the question all right let's go out to kenneth in riverside california what's going on kenneth hello hey happy to be here what's up ma'am hey so um i had a question so my wife and i got married a little less than three years ago uh we bought a house but 30 down we eliminated all our debt except for the house we still owe 448 on the home um and i really want to try and pay that off as soon as possible about a year ago i started saving saved up about 130k was hoping to put that into the principal refinance rates are still not great so i'm asking about the idea of recasting the loan to save about 900 a month and then keep putting that into the home as well what's your income every month and what's the mortgage uh the mortgage is uh 3800 and our combined income after retirement you can just give me after taxes but don't include all the retirement health care because that'll kind of muddy the waters for us okay you might have to do some manual math yeah so take home actual is about uh 10k for us okay a month so that mortgage has taken up a good chunk of your income at like 38 but you've been saving all this money uh and you've been saving a lot of money and you've been saving a lot of money and you've been saving a lot of money uh to are you doing it for the purpose of recasting is that why you saved up the money yeah i was hoping to put it into the principal and if rates went down i would refinance but if they didn't i was thinking maybe a recast could get that monthly payment down to where i could save money on the interest maybe put that back into the home yeah i mean technically it will all it's doing is applying it to the balance and then recasting the math to go okay now your mortgage payment is lower the balance is still the same the terms are still the same uh so it's sort of all that's going on right now so i'm just wondering if you could talk a little bit about artificially making you feel better but if you currently make your mortgage payment the same thing is happening You're paying the extra $900 toward the principal right now. Oh, I thought that was going towards the interest. You'll see on your amortization schedule how much is going towards principal and interest, but it's not like a magic trick. It's not necessarily going to cause you to pay off the house faster. Because if you just take your current mortgage and make extra payments, you'll knock it out. And so that's where I'm asking about the mortgage comparatively to take-home pay. It's a lot of your take-home pay. You guys bought too much house, and I'm glad you have this lump sum. It can sort of make it closer to that 25%, I'm assuming, if you applied it. But what I would have done in hindsight is just make extra payments to the mortgage instead of socking it up in savings on the side. Oh, okay. And the recast will cost you a couple hundred bucks, and if it gives you some peace of mind and you do see that lower payment, good. But I don't want you to stop from making extra payments and get too comfortable with that lower one. Yeah, yeah. I think we want to get this thing. We want to get this thing paid off within 10 years. So either way, we're going to get this thing gone from our lives, I think. Good. That's awesome. And I remember this. Every payment you make towards the principal balance drops the total amount of interest you're going to pay on that loan. Okay, yeah. True, of course. Because they're going to charge interest on what's there. Yeah. Okay. Yeah, so then maybe I'll still put the lump sum towards principal and maybe keep it the same. I'm hoping that just sort of gets you to that 25% mark, but I still would use all the margin you can to throw it at the mortgage if you guys are in Baby Steps 4, 5, 6. I assume you are. Am I correct? Yeah, we're in 6. We have no debt, and we're fully funded emergency fund and a good chunk in retirement as well. Awesome. Yeah. I would be investing 15% of your total household income. Do you guys have kids? No, not yet. Okay, so you can skip Baby Step 5, and then you're on to 6. Put an extra on the mortgage. Yeah. How long did it take you to save up that $100,000? It took me about – $130,000 was about a year. Wow. How did you save that much? We don't have any other expenses, really. We don't have any car payments, and we don't even really have enough. An electric bill, because one of the debts that we knocked out when we first got married was a solar bill, which was $30,000, so we knocked that out when we got married. Well, you said you're bringing home about $10,000 a month. So how did you save up $130,000 in a year, mathematically? Yeah, I mean, we just didn't – I think there were a couple bonuses as well in there. Well, your savings muscle is fantastic. I would retool that to go like, now this is the mortgage payoff muscle. And so every dime you were going to put in savings for that mortgage lump sum, I would just throw it at the mortgage. Because seeing that balance go down does something for you psychologically. And once that mortgage goes down to $200,000 and then to $100,000, now it's under six figures. Now you can see the finish line. That's when it gets real. So I would set even a more aggressive goal for someone in your shoes. Five to seven years, let's knock out this mortgage. How cool would that be? Take your wife on a date, dude. Take her on a date. It's time. John consents it's been a while since we've hit up an olive garden. If you're waiting for the perfect interest rate before you buy a home or refinance, that moment may never come. That's why people should talk to Churchill Mortgage, because rates move every day. And when rates drop, buyers flood the market, which means more competition and higher home prices. Smart buyers know they can't time the market. They move with a strategy. Buy the home you can afford now and refinance later if you're willing to. If rates improve. 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You can track your progress, get personalized recommendations and coaching for your situation to help free up more money to work the plan even faster. You can start every dollar for free. You can get it in the App Store or Google Play. Lisa's in Buffalo, New York. What's going on, Lisa? Thanks for taking my call today. I'm actually calling with a question relative to investing for my mom. She's recently gone. from four sources of income now, just solely one source of income. She too, like some of the earlier callers said, is a CD lover because she's scared of the stock market and doesn't want to invest in the stock market. She's debt-free. She owns her home. She owns her car. But she only has, you know, she has a pretty decent nest egg. But I don't know how to get her to do something other than putting it in a CD. And now with CD rates being so low, she really needs to have her money work for her. Has she lost a lot of money in the past? Or does she just come up from a generation where. No, he just is. Yes. They just didn't know. She's 87. She doesn't really, you know, put any money in the stock market. She does need that money to help her through bills and such because she does own her own home because, you know, life is expensive, right? Do you know how much her bills are every month? I would say that she's more bills every month than her social security. So I know she does need to use. And you don't know how much her social security is? I do. I think her social security is about $1,800. She has basically $520,000 in CDs. Okay. And do you know when those are going to mature? That's what she's asking me this week. What am I going to do with my money? Well, here's what you can do. I don't know. Some people are logic people. Some people are emotion people. I would try both in your shoes. You could show her what her money could have been had she been investing for the past year. The past five years instead of having it in the CD. Right. And she would see. It would have been a million dollars. I know. And that should scare her. There is actually more risk in her trying to play it safe than her being in the market because inflation is eating away at her money every day. Okay. She's barely keeping up. Right. Exactly. That's what I see. And I don't know that she. I mean, I've. I've sit down with her and I. I mean, she does her own bills. I mean, she's amazing, right? At 87 years old, she does a great job. Yeah. But I just say she's got it. I said, Mom, you can't keep eating away at the 520 and expect to keep getting money. I said, you've got to keep that principle so that you can make money. I mean, I don't know how to get. I mean, I guess I don't know who to turn to and try to find somebody that could help. Well, will she even trust the. Because I know a lot of 87-year-olds are like, I don't trust anybody. So if she met with a financial advisor and sat down someone who can help her understand this, is it an actual knowledge thing where they could kind of go, hey, here's what we're going to do. We're not going to put your money on black on the roulette table. It's not disappearing into the abyss. We are buying tiny pieces of the most successful companies in America and the world. And here's their past returns. Show her. It's been negative 10%, then up 20%, then up 20%. Up 25%, then up 23%. Right. And do you think that that could generate her monthly income off from that? Yeah. And then at that point she can withdraw, but at least then it's not dwindling down as fast. And the good news is she's 87. There's good news and bad news there. She's not going to live to be Methuselah. We all have a certain time here on earth. I hope she lives a good long life and makes it to 100, but we don't need a 30-year retirement out of this 500,000 is what I'm trying to say. Right. Right. The other thing you can do, Lisa, is, and by the way, I'm an over-emotional person. I don't know if you can tell. Like comically dramatic. And so I, even sometimes if my mind is made up on a thing, even the most logical responses. I'm like, ooh, you must be crazy. It's going to fall flat. You must be crazy, too. I don't try logic on John. No, yeah, yeah. I've got to hit him where it hurts emotionally. But I do think it would be worth doing this. If you know how much she draws from that $520 or $540 every month, do you know what that number is? Well, see, I can't say that right. I personally don't know. It's not that I don't want to say it, but let me say that I bet you she sometimes takes $2,000 to $3,000 of it. So I would ask this. Mom, can we work through a spreadsheet real quick? Or can we get out a yellow pad and work through something really quick? At $3,000 a month, right, $36,000 a year, this money is gone in this many years. Right, I know. That's what my fear is. But I think taking the fear, and just putting it on paper and saying, we don't know what the next five years will look like. If you put this in there five years ago, it would be a million bucks. I know. That's what I'm so sad about. I know. She's been in the area that long. If I could have just got her to put it in there. I know. But listen, this is me now trying to be logical, even though I just said I'm dramatic. Any time you spend on what could have been is a waste of energy and time because you can't change it. I know. And so it's a matter of sitting with her and just saying, I love you. I love you, Mom. This is your money. You do what you want to do. You'll be out of money by this date. And y'all may look at it and say, you know what? You can draw $2,000 a month. And if you make it to $95, you've got enough. Or maybe you look at it and it's like, oh, you could go to $104. You know what? I'm not even going to have this conversation. I love you, Mom. Don't take more than this out a month. Let me say it this way. If you want to sit down and have this conversation, because of the regret of the last five years, I'm saying this as nicely as I can, but that's a you problem. If you haven't sat down and said, okay, at a $3,000 a month, $36,000 a year draw, it's going to be around for this many years. Do I think Mom is going to live to be 97? Because that'd be, what, $360,000? So if she lives to be 100, actually, this money doesn't run out. If she just withdraws straight principal and puts it in a high-yield savings account. Yeah, if she just had it under the mattress and just used, so there's a reality on both sides. Yeah, and it might just be like, oh, I'm actually really sad that my mom's getting older, and I'm trying to grasp at things I can control, and that's helping me avoid, like, oh, man, my mom's 87. I'm going to lose her someday, right? Oh, I know. I just, well, the reason why she doesn't have those sources of income is because my dad died on December 23rd. Oh, I'm so sorry. Yeah, and that's coming up this year, right? Right. So, pardon me? It's going to be a different Christmas this year, right? Yeah. Well, it was a different Christmas. Oh, yeah, last year. I just want her to still be able to live and have fun, because she worries about money, right? So as a guy who is prone to worry, the path through worry is writing it all down. And as my friend Dr. John Deloney once said, facts are your friends. Facts are your friends. So if she sits down with the advisor and he maps out, hey, if we put it under the mattress, here's how long the money will go for, here's how much you can take out. If we invest it into this, maybe we do half in the stock market. Here's what could happen. That will at least give her a real picture of her options, and then she still gets to decide. Yeah, because, well, I like that idea. You're saying take half of it, give it to them, and still let her keep $250 of it. Exactly. And even just a little bit at a time. Maybe we start with $10,000, $50,000. And again, they'll show her, hey, you can get the money out. It's not stuck in there. It's not a vending machine that's going to eat your money. And the longer you keep it in there, the better off you're going to be. And all of that can help her with this. But another part of this to think about is what does she actually need to cover? And you can help her with that of the budget. Of like, hey, mom, here's the gap. We really just need $2,000 a month. And here's the math on what your nest egg is and what could be. And also the reality of long-term care could be down the road. We don't know. That could be over $100,000 a year for in-home care, a nursing home, whatever it may be. And that is going to – there's a much higher cost. There's a much higher chance of that depleting the nest egg than her trying to use it for her cost of living and expenses. So I wish you the best. You're an amazing daughter. Yeah, yeah. You're a wonderful daughter for even thinking about this. You care a lot about your mom. And I think that tone is going to come across in all the conversations. Good luck. Guardian is a law firm built specifically for people in default, behind on payments or staring down bankruptcy. And their model is designed so people in that situation can actually access real legal protection. From day one, you're assigned an attorney. If a creditor sues you, you have someone who can actually represent you, not a call center that isn't built to defend you when things escalate. The best path out of debt is still doing it the right way, budgeting, working the plan, changing the behavior. But if you've already hit a wall and you need real help, Guardian delivers. Their attorneys have settled over $600 million in debt for more than 55,000 people. So go check it out for yourself, guardianlit.com slash Ramsey. That's guardianlit.com slash Ramsey. Attorney advertising. Results may vary and no specific outcome is guaranteed. Welcome back to the Ramsey Show. Hey, guys, your feedback really helps us out. So please drop a comment, hit the subscribe button, share this episode with someone who could use it. You guys are the best marketing we have to get this debt-free message out there and help people build wealth. So thanks for doing it. Victoria is up next in Omaha, Nebraska. What's going on, Victoria? Hey, guys. So my biggest question is how do we begin cutting costs? Drastically and even begin savings. We have no money saved. How do we do that without making our family feel constantly broke? We need help like setting boundaries with our 12 and 8-year-old. We want to involve them in our goals, but they just don't like fully understand. And that's OK. They're kids. But we are just so sick of living paycheck to paycheck. We need to replace our furnace and AC and start our savings. And we're just we're nowhere close. Yeah. How long have the kids been? Running the house? We do kind of pride ourselves with our discipline. But I guess with that, like, I don't know, we don't really give them consequences where we just say, like, hey, quit asking why? Like, the answer is no. Like, end of story. I guess we maybe don't follow through when it comes to money. Let me give you a path. OK, you ready? I want you. Are you married? Yes. Ten years. OK, I want you and your spouse and your kids, but I want you and your spouse to pregame this. OK. OK. And I want you all to create a set of family values together. OK. And if you want to put it on, go to Michael's or Crafts, et cetera, or something and buy Hobby Lobby and buy a like a canvas. If you want to put on a piece of wood, some construction paper, and I want you to frame it and put up in your living room right above your dining room table. Awesome. And that way, here's the thing. When your kids say, but why? But why? You can point to that and say, because. That's who we are. Yeah. And so in our house, of course, dude, I want my kids to want things. That's fine. That's developmentally appropriate, like you said, right? It's normal. But my kids know, oh, dad doesn't borrow money. Because that's who mom and dad are. That's just who we are. Right. And so it takes it's kind of like, why don't we kill that guy? Because we're not murderers. That's that's. That's who we are. And so the and then George asked a good question. I got to tell you, the greatest gift you can give your two kids right now is for them to see two united, like ride or die, motivated parents doing a really hard thing together to set their family free over the next two or three years. And what you're going to create from that is two kids that know, like my mom went back to college and I mean, went to college for the first time in her 40s. And then got like this big, fancy professor job in her 50s and got tenured in her 60s. You know what? I can't say the words I can't. Because I've watched a woman do it. And so when this job came up, when I was 40 years old, that I could quit my job I'd worked for for 20 years and go be a YouTuber. Right. Like I was like, oh, I could change in the middle of my life because I had a roadmap because I walked. I watched my mom do it. And we always say more is caught than taught around here. Yes. And so I promise you that it's not going to cause them trauma for them to watch you sacrifice. Instead, it's going to create character. Especially if they know this is who we are. We're anchored into this thing together. And then you and your husband have to suck it up and go do it together. Right. Yeah. My husband and I are both, well, especially my husband, kind of stuck in that mindset of just lack of. And, like, the kids have never been on a vacation. The kids haven't been able to experience, like, sports and stuff because, like, we just don't. Where's the money going right now? We don't prioritize that. How much do you guys bring in every month? Whoa, whoa, whoa, hold on. Before you get there, I want you to double click on what you just said. It's not because y'all can't figure that out. Yeah. It's because y'all don't prioritize that. Right. Yeah, we don't. So don't blame a bunch of other stuff for the fact that you and your husband have to look in the mirror and say, we've chosen to never. We've chosen to never allow them to play sports or to never make that a priority for us. Yeah, true. And the responsibility of those decisions rests solely on you and your husband. Right. Right. And, by the way, you're a 12- and 8-year-old. If y'all once a month set up a tent in the backyard and cut hot dogs over a solo stove, they would tell that story at your funeral. They'd have a blast. That's true. Right? And so all this, like, smoke in our minds of our kids are going to, our kids are going to, dude, our kids take a lot of cues from, most of their cues from the pulse and the temperature of their household, their parents. Yeah. If they ever go to therapy, they're not going to say, well, we never went to Disney, so that's why we're here. They're going to say, we're here because I watched my parents live in scarcity mode their whole life, stressed out. Now, they may go to therapy and say, I always wanted to play soccer, and mom and dad didn't prioritize that. Uh-huh. And that'll be a fair criticism. Right. Right. Right. If you want to live your life out of fear of a criticism your current eight-year-old might make in 25 years, that's going to be a miserable life. Let me give you a line. Your kids don't get a vote. Uh-huh. Because they're kids. What they need is regulated, anchored parents. And if they like sleeping in a warm house in the winter in Nebraska, we got to get this furnace first. Right. So we have a priority here. And so right now it's four walls, beans and rice. We're going to cover basic food, basic clothing. Transportation, housing, utilities. And other than that, we got to get out of this situation. We got to get out of debt. So have you guys actually put this on paper? Have you done an every dollar budget to show here's our income, here's where all of our expenses are? Yeah. I mean, I've got the whole what you guys call just like a napkin math. Okay. What does it reveal to you? Because you're saying paycheck to paycheck. Is it an income issue? Is your lifestyle inflated? Is it payments? Is it a car loan? No. So it's. Well, no, it's not. It's not an income thing because we bring in $7,000 a month. Right. And then our average expenses are about $4,000. That includes obviously like mortgage. And we do have one car payment, but I can't sell it. I know you guys push it. I just can't because I use it for my LLC. I'm a house cleaner. So I just need a car that I can rely on. How much is left on the car loan? I want to say $15,000. Okay. Cool. So that's five months. It's gone. Five months? Because you got $3,000 extra every month. So if you said we bring in seven, we spend four on paper. On paper, we spend four. There should be $3,000 left over if we do this right. So five months, the car payment's gone. How much is that payment? $350. Boom. You just got a $350 a month raise. How many houses would it take you to clean to get $350? Maybe like two or three. Okay. So you just got a day of every week back. Yeah. Right? You see how this starts to change your life. And now you can save up because you know how to save up $3,000 a month to throw towards the debt plus this new $350. So now you got $3,350 saving up on an emergency fund. Three months, you got $10,000. That's a new furnace. So just to clarify though, and I just need to hear it from you guys because I kind of just need a slap in the face, just like we're cutting cold turkey, like end of story. Yes. We're not going to five below. We're not any of that. No. But listen, it's not for five years. We just showed you a plan to do all of this within the next 12 months. Right. And by the way, your eight-year-old is responsible for the rice and your 10-year-old is going to make the beans. And you know what? They're going to love it. They're going to have a good time. Right? Yeah. No, they complained at first. They said, we're having the Ramsey special and it's not Gordon. Right. Different Ramsey. Different Ramsey. A different Ramsey special. And thankfully, yeah, my daughter smiled and she's like, it's not so bad. But let me tell you this. Three of the top meals I've ever had in my life ever were with Dave Ramsey. You know why? Because he can live like no one else. And he also gives like no one else, which is why he paid for that meal. Because I couldn't have afforded that meal. Yeah. You know what I'm saying? So there is another side to this thing once you get there. Yeah. Make it a party. Go like, hey, we're going to do a competition. Each of you are going to make a meal. I get to be the judge. Yes. And then you can yell at them like Gordon Ramsey. It'll be really fun. You can smash the kitchen. Combine both Ramseys. But what we're saying is sacrifice doesn't have to mean we're all miserable. No, sacrifice can bring you together in a powerful way as a family. Right. So you get to decide, Victoria. You guys have the income to do this. There's not a lot of debt. This is a pretty solvable problem. But it takes all of you getting on the same. page for the next 12 months going. We want a different life on the other side of this for the next 12 years. And it's mom and dad saying this is our house. And as for our house, we're going to choose peace and freedom. Welcome back to The Ramsey Show in the Fairwinds Credit Union studio. I'm George Camel here with Dr. John Deloney. Andrew's up next in Kansas City. What's going on, Andrew? Hey, you guys. Thanks for taking my call. Sure. I'm looking for advice on just how to move forward. My grandpa passed away about a year ago, and him and I had hung out five years prior to that, just traveling around the country. And during that three to five years, he would consistently tell me, hey, when I die, this truck is yours, you know, and he would repeatedly say that. And he did die a year ago. And when it came time for the will, I reached out to his kids, my dad, my aunt, and uncle, and I said, hey, you know, Grandpa said he wanted me to have the truck, is that in the will, is that just, you know, and they all told me no. And I was surprised because he's never not followed through, but I just said okay, and I wanted to respect it and not contribute to any conflict. My aunt, I met with my aunt yesterday, and she told me that my grandpa actually left a note attached to the will on a legal piece of paper. And saying Zach gets my truck and signed it. And she told me that when it came time of reading the will between my dad, my uncle, and my aunt, that my dad and my uncle said that they were not going to speak of this note and to never mention it. And they didn't give me the truck. And so I was just looking at, I was looking for advice. I mean. If what your aunt said is true, and it sounds like based on your time and relationship with your grandpa, that sounds plausible, and it sounds more than plausible, it sounds like that's probably true. I mean, the first thing I would be in your situation is absolutely heartbroken that my dad, my father, betrayed his own dad and betrayed his son in this way. Did this go through probate court? Uh, no, he had a, he had a trust or a will, and so there was an executor and a lawyer. And as far as I'm aware, um, they executed all through that. Have you, have you, do you live by your dad? No. Do you have a good relationship with him? No. Um, my, my grandma passed away and then my, my grandpa and I have always been best friends. Um, my grandma passed away and my grandpa and I hung out almost every day, every week. Um, when I grew close to my grandpa, uh, five years ago, my uncle, my dad, um, started having conversations saying that I was only growing close to my grandpa for money reasons. Um, and they started some, they just started talking in that way. I mean, they can talk all they want. But if it's noted in the will, it's a legal binding document. But are you saying this was like a loose note attached? Yeah. It was like a sticky note? Because I don't know that it's going to hold up in court. Yeah, it was written on a legal piece of paper that was sitting on top of the will, and it said, Zach, it's the truck, and it was signed. And my aunt said it was all in my grandpa's handwriting. And I don't know your state law, so I would talk to an attorney to figure out what your state law says about does this count. Can you access this physical evidence, or did they get rid of it? Where does that note? The story that my aunt told me yesterday was that the lawyer that was with my aunt, uncle, and my dad in that meeting said that legally they did not have to honor that note because it wasn't in the will. So it's not enforceable? Right. He said legally it's not enforceable because it's not inside of that will document. And so if they wanted to ignore it, or not honor it, then they were free to do that. And then my aunt said that my uncle, you know, said that, okay, let's all swear to never mention this, and this never happened. Man, there is so much dysfunction. Yeah. I mean, that's one of those things that maybe is legally right. I don't think it's morally right. I think your dad and uncle did you wrong. But here's the thing. I don't know what kind of recourse you have unless, I mean, how old are you? 36. Yeah. I mean, I would say, I'm thinking of my 16-year-old son when I say this. I'm not trying to make some, like, masculinity statement. But I would have a man-to-man conversation with your dad and your uncle. And your aunt has to know that she's going to be right in the middle of it. And it might end up being two brothers versus sister. Does she tell you to swear you'd never say anything? I mean, this sounds so dysfunctional, so middle school. Oh, absolutely. She said, you can't. She said, you know, I swore to them that I would never say anything that no one would ever find out. So she said, you know, she didn't want them to ever find out. So what she did was she did something that was morally wrong. And then she has been carrying that cinder block around for a year. And then she just handed it off to you and said, you carry it. And don't tell anybody. Bro, it's heartbreaking. It is what it is. But legally, he's probably correct. And I think you, I mean, if I'm you, I have all I need to know about a dad who would dishonor his son and his father in this way. And you're 36, and I would make my way through the world with that insider information. I don't see any way you get this truck. Are they using the truck right now? Okay. No. They just don't want you to have it. I question them a lot. I'm sorry? Like, is it collecting dust somewhere, or are they actually driving it? No, they liquidated it immediately. Yeah, it's gone. They just sold it and took the cash. Yeah, my dad, I asked about it a year ago. My dad said he drove it to the dealership and sold it and liquidated it. Yeah, it's gone. I mean, yeah, it's gone. And I mean, you, dude, I'm not a lawyer, so I don't know. But I. I think your grandpa. I think your grandpa had every intent to give you this truck, but he didn't do a great job actually making it official, because this should have been in the will, properly witnessed, you know, state-specific, all of that, to your laws. And I don't think, based on what the other attorney said, that there's any recourse here. But also. And so relationships are over. Right. But also, like, my dad has said, hey, there's a few things. I want my daughter to have it. I want your brother to have this, and this is going to be yours. And we're all moral adults, and so we're like, yeah, cool. It's not like when he dies, we're going to be like, ha, ha, ha, he didn't write it down anywhere. So I don't think your granddad's out to lunch. That's probably. I can see that being handled like that all over the place. But your aunt lacks all moral courage. Your uncle and your dad are immoral. I mean, they're non-integrist people. And so, dude, my rule of thumb is I just don't do business with folks like that. I don't do relationships with folks I can't trust. I mean, they chose that money from the truck sale over. For their relationship with you. And more importantly, their relationship, like, honoring their dad's wishes. So it is what it is. But yeah, you especially are not going to. I can't see a legal course. If you want to go talk to an attorney, go for it, where you could go get the money for the truck. I mean, that seems like it's way down the road, but. Sorry, brother. I hate this for you. I hate this for you. I hate this for you. I hate this for you. Anything you want handled a certain way, you need a will. It gives your family clear direction when they need it most. So if you're ready to create one, and if you don't have one, that means you're ready. Go to mamabearlegal.com. And if you're not sure where to start, you can text the word QUIZ, Q-U-I-Z, to this number, 33789, and we'll help you figure out which option fits your situation. Jamie is in Sioux Falls up next. What's going on, Jamie? Hey, good afternoon. So I had a question about. About home and equity and all that good stuff. So my fiance and I are getting married in 2028, and we each currently own a home. That's so far away. Well, okay, so I have two kids who I've raised. One's already out of the home living independently, and one leaves for college in the fall of 27. So that's why we're waiting just a little bit longer. God, you don't want to live with your child. You're like, let's just wait and just swap. Swap the child for the fiance. Well, exactly. You know, we're in two different towns, so I'll just let him finish high school here, and then I'll move on with my life. Cool. Okay, sorry to derail. I'm always curious. We're good. We're good. So my main question, I would love to be debt-free sooner than later. By the time we're married, I'll be 46. He's a little bit younger than me. He'll be 38, but that's beside the point. But with both of our houses. So I'll be moving into his house, and what I'm questioning is, when I sell my house, should I put the equity that I receive into his loan to work towards that financial goal of becoming debt-free? But I didn't know, like, what the financial, you know, if my name needs to be on his house, or if it would be considered a gift, or if I'd still have to pay taxes on my equity that I receive, things like that. What is your. What is your house worth today? I would say it's probably around $220. Okay, and what'd you pay for it? $85. Okay, so you're not going to have any taxes with the capital gains exclusion, so you're good there. So what I would do is, let's say, it's not going to be paid off by the time you move. No, it won't. I'll still owe probably a little bit, but yeah. Okay, so whatever equity you get, let's call it $200,000. Sure. Sure. So if you get in a high-yield savings account, are you immediately going to move in with him? Like, it's kind of like, I'm selling the house, we're getting married, and then immediately moving, or is there a gap in time? No, I'll probably move in once we're married. When I sell my house, I don't know if it will be right away after or not. Okay, so there's not really any urgency. It's not like it's on fire and we need to throw all of this at the mortgage immediately. But I would just park it in a high-yield savings account knowing that we want to earmark this for mortgage payoff if there's no other debt. Are both of you consumer debt-free? Yeah. So he only has his house debt, and I only have my house debt. Great. What's left on his mortgage? $180,000. Oh, fantastic. That's a pretty cool start to this marriage. Right? If you guys could be completely debt-free, house and everything. That's what my goal is. Yeah. And he likes that idea, too. I would absolutely make sure your house is on the deed as well. Yes, I think— When you guys are married. That's very fair. I'm a big fan of this. I think if you're married, unless you're in some super high-income tax bracket, you're starting to move stuff around in different ways that don't apply to 99.9% of us um y'all's names need to be on everything both of y'all's names a joint checking account joint savings yep and we're planning on i've talked him into doing that and he's on board with that um he better be you're about to make this guy debt free this is awesome i know it he feels bad but i'm like we're joining our lives together it's going to be our money it's not there you go and you guys are going to be building wealth together hopefully for the rest of your lives right right so this is just one one pretty big financial decision that marks that moment of saying this is who we are we're a couple who combines everything because we're one team one dream we're going to build wealth together my retirement is your retirement there is no well this is mine this is what i brought into the marriage right and that's hard i mean i'm really proud of you guys there's a lot of couples that are older they're 30s 40s 50s whatever it is a second marriage they have a really hard time letting go because of the past wounds and the baggage sure sure well i've been on my own with my kids for 15 years so you kind of you move on pretty you know after eventually yeah wow that's fantastic it's impressive and i'll tell you like i here's a thing i did and it was all accidental um i had bought a car and i went down to the dealer and negotiated and bought the car and then i surprised my wife and and went down and i didn't have cash for it so i took out payments but i bought her a car and she one day when the registrations came she said hey just saying this out loud my name's not on anything any of these cars and it feels like you i mean it on paper legally you own the and i thought i was like oh gosh i hadn't even occurred to me and so adding her to both of the cars these are both our cars i might drive one and she might drive one but these are both our cars and i'm like these are our cars right and so yeah i like i any sort of asset like that i like both couples names on everything especially especially especially if you're walking and dropping two hundred thousand dollars on y'all's house then y'all need to be on there and he's fine with adding my name there's like no angst against that by any means but do we have to refinance it to get my name on it because he has a really low interest rate that's where it won't matter kind of because you're paying it off okay that's true yeah because if the house was paid off you could still be added to the deed i got nothing to refinance on my house so you know what i mean that's not they're not inextricably tied together but even if you let's say you have to then in your situation for me that'd be a no-brainer i'd refinance it and pay it off the next month oh that's true too okay that's just for the mortgage your name doesn't need to be on the mortgage no because there won't be this is just so the deed is separate than mortgage yes cool way to go congratulations i would send you a wedding gift but i don't know that i can wait two years let me tell you this don't get excited and get married and then pay off this house and not put your name on there because you're just don't do that put your name on it yeah oh man that's a that's a good one john i don't know what it is but it's funny that people who and i this is just a me just saying this out loud this is what i've seen couples who are not married that are living together have no problem financial lives for some reason and people who are adults getting married and then they move in together have a really hard time combining finances what do you think is behind that's a good question i've never even thought about that but you're right i my guess is because i'm always telling people no why'd you combine finances you're not married then we can't get we can't convince the couples to combine finances that are married yeah that's a good question i think people get married there's a sense that i want to hang on to some some of me and so this is a way i i can pretend to do that that this is mine and that's yours even though we are not doing the same there's this desperation to hang on to my individualness right whereas i think marriage is scarier it's a bigger step and so you feel like i have to protect myself a little more well it's not even protection i think it's just more it's the illusion of identity i'm losing myself and this is a way i can hang on to myself this is my money it's like you make 40 grand and it's like that's mine though and then the other side of it is i think a lot of couples move in together because they think they're going to be able to pool everything and it will be easier for them and so they just dump everything into a bucket and they think that's going to solve all the problems and it often creates more it's like well instead of venmoing each other let's just pay this out of one pot if we're going to be roommates exactly that's very interesting i didn't think about it like that and then he buys because i mean i i tried various stages of that with different college roommates like no dude we're all just gonna you get the milk next time that never works out it always falls on one person yeah who's then resentful of the rest of the room roommates or i'll buy the electric bill you buy all the groceries and this dude's not buying great groceries but if you're wondering out there what do you do if you're about to get married i always recommend whoever has the checking account just make it a joint checking account and you can add someone's name to it that's what i did with my wife joint savings account joint high yield savings account you can get it at fairwinds.org slash ramsay get that all set up in minutes it doesn't take a long time it just takes you letting go of this illusion of control that i'm still going to be my own person you are and also you are one together hey guys rachel cruz here and i love summer there is more fun on the calendar more time with your people and way more chances to make memories but you know what else there's more of spending oh between the extra groceries and gas and camp fees and family trips it all starts to add up so fast and before you know it money stress starts to steal the fun out of everything and that is why i love the every dollar budget app because it helps you plan your money track your spending and find more marketing in your budget so that you can put extra cash towards the goals that matter most enjoy your summer without the money stress download the every dollar app in the app store or google play and start for free today so ask ramsay is our free ai tool built and trained on proven ramsay principles and we're going to break down one of the questions we got this week i've recently gotten married and we are paying off forty thousand dollars in student loan debt should we wait until we are debt free to get a will here's your answer marriage is exactly the right trigger to get a will in place and no you should not wait until you're debt free a will cost you a couple hundred bucks max protects your spouse right now if something happened to you today without a will there is still a process in place the state gets to decide what happens to your assets and who makes decisions for you and that can be a long painful process and that's a risk you don't want to carry while grinding through the debt and at ramsay we use mama bear legal forms for our wills our entire team uses it it's when i got regardless of your financial situation you need to have a will in place and if you're unsure about what next step you need to take ask ramsay is here to help i love getting messages like this john they ask me a question in the dms by the time i see it they say oh never mind i used ask ramsay gave me a better answer so like i didn't come on man i agree they did say it sounded just like me so i wonder if they trained ask ramsay in my voice that's a that's a that's a dark snarky voice i would love for them to be able to choose your character like you can choose the deloney that and there's like a rabbit trail of like seven minutes before it gets to the answer yeah it's entertaining along the way i can't breathe why are you sad we start with a breathing exercise we're gonna write a letter to our dads gonna hug our wives and then we'll tell you to roll over the 401k exactly i love it all right brian is in green bay wisconsin up next what's going on brian hey guys how you doing what's up you guys doing great good my wife is a fan of john's and i'm a fan of george so we'll get you both something for everybody right so i guess our question is we're looking for strategies on helping our adult children combat this whole thought out there these days that capitalism is ruining their lives and there's nothing they can do about it and it's everyone else's fault but their own whoa what's caused them to feel this way uh social media i suppose okay do they do they work jobs yes for like public companies or what what do they do um warehouse work warehouse work so i'm just wondering at the heart of this is someone who's frustrated because they're not where they want to be yes and so our oldest child has never really been a big fan of effort yeah capitalism rewards effort and so if you're not a fan of effort you might like socialism a little bit better right although if you look throughout history socialism ends up with a lot of people giving a lot of effort they didn't want to give yeah and we've never been shy about you know explaining to our kids that we struggled a long time you know for years and years trying to work in two jobs both of us working opposite shifts when they were kids just to keep food on the table yeah um there's no shortage of hours that either one of us put in but our oldest It's just like, well, that was you guys, and it shouldn't have to be that way. And that's so persuasive on YouTube and Facebook these days. Yeah, here's the thing, Brian. You and I both have to metabolize this as just guys who have worked a lot of jobs and take a lot of pride in taking care of our families. I can spend a lot of energy being angry at the message, right? That actually you should just wake up every day and have whatever you want handed to you, right? And I also have to be honest and say that's an appealing message. Oh, it is. Right? And so I'm not going to get mad at you for an appealing message. You're right. That would be incredible. It would be. And it's not reality. It's not real. Right. Right? And so it's less that and more you're not going to convince that message. The neuroscientists and the tech folks are more powerful than you and I. They just are. Yes, they are. Right? And so the only tool you and I have in our toolkit for our kids is relationship, and I love you, and I'm not going to give you extra money, but you're always welcome in my house. It's good old-fashioned I love you relationship. We've told him that if it comes down to it, he can move back if he absolutely has to. If he gets hurt on the job or he can't. If he can't get a job, gets let go for whatever reason, but it will come with conditions. Of course. You know, he has to live by our rules. We're not going to just let him lay around and play Xbox all day kind of stuff. Of course. Of course. I don't think people are inherently lazy. I think he's just missing some mojo. He didn't know that, like, oh, you can do something you enjoy that has some purpose and add value to society and people's lives. Or you can do something that is adding value that maybe you don't necessarily enjoy, but doing that gives you the life that you enjoy. Right? Yeah. Yeah. That's what we try to coach him with and all of our kids. You know, find something that you like. You don't have to be good at it. You can learn to be good at it. Of course. You know, find something that you're passionate about or that you're interested in more than just passing glance. Yeah. Yeah. I think, you know, John's on to something here. I would not try to argue them over to your side because it just becomes a political debate at that point. It's just a lot of emotion. Instead, I would get to the root of the painfulness. The pain points that they're feeling and go, oh, here's what's really going on. They spent their whole lives going to school, doing all this stuff. They're working a warehouse job they don't like. They're not making enough money to accomplish any of their dreams and goals. And now they're frustrated. And so they're looking at the system as the villain. And that's a great villain because there's so many things wrong with the system, isn't there? There is greed. There is corruption. And system is undefined, right? It's undefined. It's a boogeyman. For all of human history, if someone didn't like hard work, then there was a penalty for that. And now, if you don't like hard work, you don't like the grind. And by the way, I don't love the grind, but the grind has certain outcomes over time, right? But now it's become heroic, right? The new thing, like the new heroism is something's happening to me instead of look what I scratch and clawed and made happen or look at the benefits I received and how I maximize those benefits. That's not heroic anymore. That's manipulative. And that is taking advantage of people. Right. So you're trying to get in those debates is fighting a losing battle. I wouldn't even engage in it. I'd call my son and ask him, tell him I love him. How are you doing? Let's go get breakfast. Say, hey, I'm done arguing about this. Let's go fishing. We do. We don't engage with him much anymore because I'm not on those subjects. You know, we do invite him. We come over to, you know, sit at the fire with the rest of the family, come over for dinner once in a while, whenever he has a chance. He's usually had usually worked very odd shifts, like, you know, 10 to 5 a.m. or something. So it's real difficult. Anywhere odd days. So, you know, a lot of times it didn't match up. But we've always tried not to go into the, well, we can fix it for you mode. Yeah. Because he doesn't want to hear that. And so the few times we have let slip, he'll get mad. Go away. And then come back a few months or a few weeks later. What's the ages? The oldest is 26. Then we've got two 22-year-olds and a 17-year-old. Okay. Yeah, that's a pretty normal phase in your 20s because you're trying to figure it out. And everything you were told, you realize is kind of a little bit of a lie from well-meaning people. And so there's a sort of like a. The light bill has to get paid every month. Like, I remember that. I remember that exact thought in my head. I have to do this every month for the rest of my life. And I was like, oh, man. So there's a reality to what they're facing. And I would lean into that empathy versus, hey, what you're experiencing is not real. Right. And the definition of capitalism I don't think is going to solve this, even though they would go, oh, yeah, I agree with that. Competition is good. Yeah. Individuals should have the right to, like, own stuff. Yeah, supply and demand is actually a healthy economic model. I don't think we're going to get to that level of logic. No. No. I guess our main goal is to just get them to, you know, fully accept. They don't have to like it. I didn't like when I was in my 20s to accept that, you know, what they put in their life is basically what they're going to get out of it. And if they wait for life to happen to them, then it's not going to be fun. Amen. I mean, I think we can all agree on that behind this desk. It's up to you. That's what capitalism says. And if you believe it's up to someone else, then that day will never come. And eventually you'll get frustrated enough, hopefully, to go, I'm going to do something about it because no one else has yet. Hey, guys, Dave Ramsey here. Every day on this show, we help people work through real money problems and figure out what to do next. Now you can get that same kind of help anytime with Ask Ramsey. Ask your money question and get answers. Built on Ramsey principles we use on the show. Whether you're making a decision or just want something explained, Ask Ramsey is here to help. It's fast, simple, and free to use. Go to RamseySolutions.com and try Ask Ramsey today. That's RamseySolutions.com. Our scripture of the day, Luke 16.10. Whoever can be trusted with very little can also be trusted with much. And whoever is dishonest with very little will also be dishonest with much. Will Ferrell said, Ain't that the truth? John is in Fayetteville, Arkansas. What's going on, John? I am three months behind on my mortgage. And I don't know what to do. And I was just calling to get some advice. Oh, man, what happened? Well, I'm in construction and work slowed down and I fell behind. And then being able to get caught back up seems like it's impossible. What's your mortgage payment? $2,200 a month. Wow. So are you 66 in the hole right now with this next month looming? Yes. Is it just you? As far as income, yes. My wife stays home with our, we have four kids and our youngest is autistic. So she stays home and homeschools him. Oh, my goodness. As construction has slowed down, it's going to sound like we're picking on you. And I'm not meaning that in any way, okay? No, that's fine. As construction has slowed down, have you taken two or three or four jobs? Like, because this whole house sits on your shoulders. Yeah. I, like, I've looked for, like, other stuff, like, but, like, around here is, like, where I live is not, the job market is, seems like it's not very good. Is that in construction specifically? Yeah, in construction in general, yes. No, I'm talking about, I'm talking about, like, you wake up and you don't have a job that day. And so you're, you're driving Uber, you're delivering Amazon, you're over at Walmart throwing boxes. Like, I'm saying. You're working in a warehouse overnight. That's what I mean. Oh, no, I haven't even looked at any of that. Here's what I'm saying. Because you don't need more construction jobs. Underneath that, you need one thing, money. Period. From anywhere, right? Yes. And so we're going to take every possible job we can. And we're going to have to tell our wife and our three, our four kids, I'm going to have to be MIA for a few weeks. Yes. I mean, for a few months. I got to go get us right-sized up because the whole house is – you're about to lose your house, man. And I'm saying that, again, I know you know that, but I just want to say it out loud. Like, this is scary business now. Yeah. Have you talked to the lender? Me and my wife have. Or have they called you? We've talked to them, and they had us fill out some paperwork for assistance, and that was a month ago. And when we called them, they said that, well, we're on a waiting list. We're number 1,005 on the waiting list. They would get to us. Okay. As far as assistance? But I'm saying, like, are they about to foreclose on your house? No, we haven't got anything as far as foreclosure or them calling about foreclosure or anything like that. Well, I would make sure you stay proactive to negotiate a repayment plan, a mitigation option, because I don't want them all of a sudden calling you saying, hey, you guys need to be out this week. We're foreclosing. Yeah. And so you need to stay on top of it. You need to stay with them to explain what's going on, explain that you need to get on a repayment plan, that you're working on getting current. Okay. And get everything in writing. Don't rely on verbal promises from the guy you talked to on the phone. Now, are you using credit cards to fund the gap right now? What are you doing to stay afloat? No. Me and my wife, so my wife is doing, like, she's sparking, doing, like, Walmart delivery in the evenings after whenever. I am working. And that way I can watch the kids while she goes and does that to try to help. But, like, that's about it. I know, but what are you doing on the days that you're not doing construction? Trying to find work in construction. I need to start looking to try to find something else. Yes. Are you handy? Can you put, like, a hammer at a nail? Oh, yeah. Can you start a little handyman business in charge? 60 bucks an hour in your neighborhood? Probably. Because I know I have paid these guys a lot of money. And they tell me, I go to these really nice neighborhoods and little old ladies, they can't get up to unscrew the light bulb to swap it. And so you can help a lot of people and make good money doing it just right there in your neighborhood. But I want that to be option number two. You've got to go get a job, dude. Get some stability and then add the side hustles on top of that. Correct. And then start flyering up your neighborhood. Or get on Nextdoor app and say, I'm a handyman, and I'm incredible, and I'm trustworthy, and I got four young kids, and I'm a man of my word, and I'm good. Yes. And I'll come over on Saturdays and Sundays. As far as, like, logging on credit cards, we cut all those up. Good. We got them paid off, and we said, we're not doing this again. We're tired of being broke. So we cut all of them up, and we're not even using credit cards anymore. Well, how much money do you guys have to your name right now? I've got, like, $2,400 in my bank. Bank account. Okay. And do you guys have any debt outside of the mortgage? Yes. What are the cars worth? One of them is worth $10,000, and the other one is worth about $14,000. Okay. I would find, and what's the balances on them? The one that's worth $10,000, the balance is, like, $14,000 on it, and the one that's $14,000, the balance is, I think, $20,000 on that one. So underwater on both. Yes. What's the payments on those? $800 a month on both. Are these cars about to get repoed? Well, one of them is current, and the other one is not. The other one is two months. Man, I am scared for you. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I wouldn't lay slumber to my eyes. No. I would be out there working every. I've been going. Driving down the road, going to every single store, and saying, you guys hiring? I can start tomorrow. I'll start right now. Yeah. Whatever you need me to do. That's the kind of attitude you need instead of, well, I'm waiting on the construction market to pick back up. I would be calling every single person in my phone to say, hey, do you know of any work available? Doing anything. John, I have a vivid memory of an executive at my church getting laid off when I was a young kid, and that following week, he was. He took over the janitorial role at the church. He was cleaning toilets. And then I remember thinking, oh, that's. Not that he was at a fancy job, and now he's not, but I remember as a young man thinking, oh, that's what honor looks like. You get what I'm saying? Yeah. Yes. Today is your day, brother. I don't want you to go to sleep until you've gone and knocked on four different businesses this afternoon, okay? Yeah. Yeah. Go get applications this afternoon, because here's the thing. You have a. Nothing matters except for your house right now. You've got to get current. Yeah. And you've got to, got to get out of the shame spiral you're finding yourself in, right? Yes. The only way out of this is through action, brother. Okay? Yeah. You're a good man. You got kicked. You got hit hard, and you fell down. Now, your family and you need you to stand back up and go get after it, okay? Yeah. All right? We're on the same team, brother. You call us back if you need anything, John. Okay. I hope we gave you enough homework to keep you busy. Yes. No, absolutely. We probably just gave you more of a kick in the pants, but no more schemes, no more. All right. It is time for one thing, one thing only, and that is to go get to work on top of work and on top of work. And you're going to be so tired. You can't even see straight. And you got four kids. I know you know fatigue at a level that most people don't. You're about to be triple that tired. But your family's going to have a roof. Yeah. You and your wife are going to have cars, and you're going to be able to sleep at night finally. Okay? Okay. Game on. And you will get current on that mortgage, current on that car payment. You're going to get through this, because you're a guy who has the work ethic. You've just been kicked. And so it's time to get back up and start fighting, man, because you got a lot of people relying on you. A lot of people that love you. And. You're worth this. And, George, I want to reiterate something you said. Often, when I talk to folks in this very situation, there's a fear to call the mortgage company. There's a fear to call the car loan folks. Often, having that phone call and telling them, I know I'm working on a plan, is what they want to hear. It's the absence of any sort of information other than we're not getting paid. They're going to start their automated processes, right? So get on the phone and be very proactive. If you find yourself behind, like John is, and get on the horn and let people know, yes, I know I'm behind, and I'm going to be working on it. That puts this Hour of the Ramsey show in the books. Remember, there's ultimately only one way to financial peace, and that's to walk daily with the Prince of Peace, Christ Jesus.