Stars Over New Orleans with Aliza Kelly

Hey, weirdos, I'm Ash. I'm Alina. I'm Alisa. And this is a special episode of Morbid. [MUSIC PLAYING] Alisa is back and as cool as ever. Wow, wow, wow. I was going to say better than ever, but you just remain cool. Yeah, it's true. Cool. I love that. She's wearing a brats skirt today. Yeah, like, yes. Does it get any cooler than that? No. Does it get any midlife crisis than that? No, you're not there, babe. No, we're not there yet. I don't know. The riding's on the wall. A brats skirt for no good reason. Yeah, as shoot as midlife crisis ever. That was a good surprise. I'm concerned. Fairly in it. I'll take it. Right, maybe the aesthetics of a midlife crisis are actually-- That's a thing. Yeah, I think there's something there. Wow. I keep seeing this thing that is like the older I get, the more I just turn into my 10-year-old self again. Or somebody my 10-year-old self would have been obsessed with. Yeah. That actually is true. Yeah. Yes. I'm fully agree with that. As I'm doing this tour in the midst of this right now, obviously, I have a lot of sequeny things, which is also what I've been sourcing, on D-pop, on Poshmark. So I'm in this sequen state of mind, which also means that for just regular getting together with someone for coffee, I'm now wearing a sequen mini dress. Oh, yeah. And I realize only as I'm coming in, that I'm like, oh, it's giving Minty B. No. No, it's giving. She is that thing. Exactly. It's giving 11 a.m. Here's the thing. The world is burning, so we should all get our sequins out and wear them when we can. Everybody's too judgey anyways. Yeah. Everybody wear what they want to wear and be who they want to be. That's it. And you do that too. Where are your sequins? Where are the fucking ones? You get to wear. You at home, too. Oh, yeah. You get a place of where you're fucking leggings every single day. Yeah. And whatever you want. Who cares? Don't save things. I don't think I'm going to wear sequins to your show now. Oh. Yeah. I mean, sequins, it turns out they really do look lovely under-- They really do. Oh, the lights. Yeah. There's a six-point goal is just like-- And that's the 10-year-old in me. And we're like, that's really sparkly. Oh, yeah. Wow. I'm really still sparkly. Yeah. And I can't keep my eyes off of it. No, you can. If it's sparkles, I'm looking. I love it. That's it. I love it. Yeah. Don't you? Yeah. You have Gemini in your chart, don't you? This is Gemini. OK. So my creative spark is Gemini code. Yeah. And I do feel that very much. Where I feel-- I feel like especially at this moment in my life, I'm very deep in the whimsy. I feel really locked in and fun, whimsy for a quality. Yes. Despite the collapse of Western civilization. Yeah. I'm not there in sequins. No. You got to lean into it. It's very common. It's very common. It's very common. I'm sure to be under the world whimsically. Yeah. Well, that's what I'm doing. And there's never a time, right? Yeah. And bring in the whimsy with me. I think it's-- We need it. It's what we have to do. We need more whimsy. It's our calling. We need to romanticize things whimsical all of it. Yeah, maybe it's where we lost the plot. I think it is. Bring whimsy back. Yeah. Bring whimsy back. Yeah. Bring fun and frivolity. Bring French back. For-- Bring it all. I love French. Yeah. Bring it all back. Bring it all back. Some texture, some movement. Yeah. A little sparkle, a little glycine. Just stop caring. Yeah. We stop caring. Yeah. I did. Just a while ago. Yeah. It's great. Yeah. It's an interesting time to be alive. Sure. It's-- I feel like-- I mean, even in the-- This is our third year doing this. Every October, spooky season. And I do feel like even in the past couple of years, it's like so much-- Yeah. Has had to change so much. Yeah. It's crazy. Yeah. There's just been-- This is our third year. I love that. This is our little tradition. I know. We started with the witch trials, right? Yes. Then we went to Jack the Ripper last year. And this year, we're taking it to a place of the Axeman of New Orleans. New Orleans. And I told you both that I found out that I'm related to the-- to court-- one Corey Giles. That is the coolest-- Incredible. The coolest claim in history. The more weight. It's-- Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And the first time that I went to Salem is when I-- Two years ago, when we did the show. Yeah. I went there and I was like, oh, I am so locked in. I was like, I feel so alive. And that's fine. Yes. Did you already know at the point? No. I just found out, like, within the past year. Okay. That's so crazy. So it's really crazy. I mean, especially like the only guy. Yeah. And then the guy who is like the one who put that curse on it, which is the curse that came true. Yeah. Because now every year, which is descend on Salem. Yeah. Exactly. And the Puritans are all like flipping in their grave. Yeah. Yeah. It's like a house office away from the original location. Because they were all dying. Yeah. They were all having like heart-related issues. Yeah. Yeah. I think there was like only like one or two that didn't actually die from all problems. Wow. Yeah. It's fascinating. We're going to revisit it soon, actually. Yeah. The witch trials. We just said we have to go back. It's the gift that keeps on giving. It is. Yeah. And it's like an important-- it's like a cautionary tale. Oh, yes. It's a tale as well. Especially now. I feel like it's very relevant now. Absolutely. I feel like Puritans have risen back up. Like we've got a puritanical group that has risen up. It's like Fear Street. They're coming back. You really are. Scary. It is scary. Yeah. And it's like, you know, this trying to turn these like hot Goths into tradwives over and over. Yeah. It's like nobody needs it. Don't do that. Don't do it. Stop it. Stop it. We don't need another tradwife. No. No. And also like tradwives. The OG tradwives did not want to be tradwives. No. So why are we embracing this? They were not always f**k you bitches. I didn't want to gather those eggs. Yeah. Yeah. Like there's beyond the question. Yeah. Yes. No, I think that it's a. I feel like every. It's like a tale that needs to be told. So that we can keep it fresh in the frontal lobe of the collective consciousness. Exactly. Like you see. You see what happens? You see what can happen? Don't let it happen again. No. At least don't let history repeat itself. But you were saying it kind of seems like history repeated itself. It's a little bit with the X-man case. Yeah. And there's correlations between the last time you were here talking about Jack the Ripper. Oh my gosh. Yeah. I mean, it's really interesting because the more that we look at from an astrological point of you, the more patterns start to emerge as well. Okay. And it's like very fascinating to see like, well, what are the correlations between these things? Yeah. And I remember when we were talking about the Salem trials. A lot of the astrology was astrology that was about to happen. Yeah. So a lot of the astrology of then it was kind of like, oh, and watch out because we haven't had that since then. Right. And we've been in it. So no wonder it is also like we're dealing with similar things. Mm-hmm. And I've been thinking about the Jack the Ripper so much because there was that Neptune Pluto conjunction super, super rare. We haven't had it since. Mm-hmm. And that sort of like the spooky, you know, mystery around death. And, you know, what does it mean? And how do we sort of like turn fictionalize this very real thing that has happened and almost like turn it into a fantasy of a law? Yeah. And there's similar things in AXMEN too. That makes so much so interesting. Yeah. Because there are key points. So really quickly just to give you guys like a quick overview before we dive into the astrology of the time. The AXMEN of New Orleans started around like May 1918 and it ended in October of 1919. But it was absolutely brutal. Yeah. And it was consistent. It was super consistent. I think it was literally at one point almost a kill a month. Yeah. Yeah. And also at the same time during the killings in the fall of 1918, there was a 12 week stretch within everything where New Orleans was also the epicenter for the Spanish influenza. Hey. So shit was just hopping off in New Orleans. Yep. And actually the city had a very high death rate and another round of flu that hit the fall of 1919. And that is when the AXMEN hung up his axe. Yeah. And he was like, "I wonder did he get out of there because he knew the flu was coming? Or did the flu go after him?" And he died of the flu. Yeah. Maybe. But total there were. He's in people's houses. Yeah. But he's not quarantining. He's not quarantining. So I don't think he's wearing a mask. Come on. Come on. That's probably. Yeah. I don't think he's wearing a mask either. He's high risk. But there were 12 total attacks six confirmed deaths. It was not a brutal attack. Like these were brutal attacks, people at bed, children, I mean, a lot of women, it seemed like he only, there's a theory that he only killed men when they were in the way of him killing a woman. Yeah. And they were Italian Americans for the most part, right? Yeah. And a lot of grocers, which I find interesting. Yeah. Yeah. There's a lot here to work with. There is. Yeah. When I was going into it and going deep in, you know, like a really laughing, laughing loving. The 35 charts here or something, um, to me, it was like, why don't more people know about this case? It's so jack the ripper coded, but it was, I, I do believe because there was a pandemic going on. And in the same way, like, you know, now that we have lived through it, we know that in those 2020, 2021 years, there were a lot of things that kind of just like got, didn't get as much attention. They got absorbed. It's like, we know how the new cycle works. And it was the same going on then. It's like, obviously there's something brutal that's happening. That's really scary, but it's also really scary that everyone is getting sick around you. And that everyone now needs to like go back into their homes and that all of these businesses are shutting down. And, you know, there's businesses that are going out and like the whole city is not able to sustain itself. And yeah, it's horrible that there's someone coming into our house and killing us. like it's one of the most important things that we've ever seen. - We're also dealing with this. - Yes. And I wonder if that, the sort of the timing of it, made this case sort of more, it just didn't get the same type of attention that the river did in its time and place. - Yeah, I think that was a reshot totally, right? Because I think before, like, when we first covered it, it was 2018. - It was pre-pandemic. - And so it was pre-pandemic. - We were like, "What's that?" We could look at it through a lens of just like, "Wow, that sounds crazy." Like that you had to like businesses were shutting down and nobody could go to social gatherings and like there was curfews and all this stuff. And I remember reading in and being like, "That must have been crazy." But you can only look at it from far away and say, "Wow, that sounds like it was crazy." So it just doesn't hit. Like it does now, living through a pandemic, we can sit there and go, "Oh, yeah, that makes total sense that this didn't pop off the way it should have." And because we know how that was now, we're like, "Oh, that took over everything." - Yeah. - It's way worse than you could even conjure by just reading about it. And people don't want to talk about it. - No. - Right? Like we still don't want to talk about what happened. - We're not over it. - Yeah, we don't really know how to talk about it still. Like collectively we don't have a shared language around it. - Yeah. - And that was the same then. Like there people did not want to talk about what had happened. So things that were going on in that time sort of just got swept up and like that. We don't talk about that at all. - Yeah, we don't talk about it. - It's so crazy. - And you also have to think too. It was so different because there was no vaccines. - Yeah. - They were trying, but it wasn't there yet. - But it's not like today where it's like, we got one right away. - Yeah. - It was just like, "You're screwed if you got this." - Yeah. - Yeah. - And I think there were like mask bites. - Like there was now. Like there is now where like some people get mad about where it's so funny that like as humans, we've always been this way. - It's so funny that as humans we don't grow. - Yeah, we just don't grow. - Yeah, and we also don't grow where we won't, where we don't look. - You know what I mean? - Exactly. - And like Hosh Hashatime. - Yup, yeah. - And it's like, you don't learn from it. - Yeah, if we are like, don't wanna deal with something, then we're also not like, it's not part of the collective language of it. - Let me shut it off. - Yeah. - And like, I remember during COVID, people were like, this is never happened before. I'm like, it actually did. - It did. - It actually happened a lot before. - Yeah. - It happened like not that long ago, really in like the grand scheme of that. - Absolutely. - Not to mention that obviously there was an epidemic in the 80s with AIDS. - Yeah. - Like that's really, really recent. - Yeah. - But like, no, there's like just this. - But if you wanna shut it off. - Yeah, shut off. - Yeah, shut off. - Yeah, shut off. - Yeah. - Like, no, no, no, no, no, no. - Oh, no. - No, no, no, no. It's never ever happened. - Are you sure? - Are you sure? - Yeah. - Are you sure guys? - No, no. - There are crazy parallels between what was going on then with the outbreak and our timing. - Yeah. - Yeah. - I'm like, I can't believe that I didn't look at that years ago. - Yeah, really? - Yeah. Like, I'm pretty stunned that for some reason some of these correlations have passed me by. Maybe because I wasn't looking. - Exactly. - I didn't want to deal. - But looking at this, I'm like, okay. I mean, not to bury the lead here. So I'll just share the same day that the flu broke out in 1918 was the day that the epidemic was declared here in 2020. - It was March 11th. - March 11th, 1918. - March 11th, 2020. - Same exact day. - That is so fun. - That's so fun. - Yes. - Any planetary alignments that were the same? - Yeah, I mean, there were. There were, there obviously the sun was in the same place. It was the same day. - Yeah. - So watch out, March 11th, you know? - Yeah. - Which is insane. And I was looking at this and I was like, did I get this? Did I plug that in wrong? Like, could it have actually been the same? - I remember 'cause that's my anniversary with Luke. So we were out while it was like - The wheelchair shut down. - The wheelchair shut down. It's an epidemic. It's a pandemic. Like we were getting the alerts during it over dinner. - Oh, it's always remember that day. And when I saw this, I was like, did I like glitch out? - Yeah. - Same. - And then yeah, we have, you know, it's a lot of the same outer planets that are being activated. - That makes sense. - That makes sense. - So yeah, it's an interesting thing. And also interesting the fact that we have these earlier attacks and this story because, you know, the ax man himself was never caught. - Right. - It's a cold case. - Yeah. - And there's these stories of attacks that had happened before 1918. I also had to pull the charts for them, obviously. - Obviously. - And it's a very interesting sort of, you know, what is the story? - We have a traveling man here. - Yes, do we have this sort of like, and this kind, it comes in before the outbreak, of course, changes, then back again during the outbreak. - Yep. - So yeah, the first chart that I have for this, the first attack was on Harriet and August Crouty. On August 13th, 1910. There's a lot of, a lot of August attacks here. - Oh, interesting. - Both of these people end up surviving, but like we'll hear with a lot. - Remember nothing. - Yeah. - Which happens, I guess, when your head's being. - It was the max. - It was the max, yeah. - But they owned a grocery store. Harriet awoke to a man standing above her bed, holding a meat cleaver. - So like a little different. - Yeah, a little different, but like, - Let's say a photo app. - Yeah. - In this case, he did take money. He also took a canary. - Okay. - That was in a cage. - That's shitty. - So ran out with the money and the canary. Let the canary go. Oh, a few blocks later. But then left, you know, left some signature things. Left the meat cleaver. Hopped the fence. You know, had like lost the bloody clothes. Like things that we'll see earlier. But this is not attributed to the Axeman. - Interesting. - And there's similarities and there's differences. - Yeah. - He did always leave the axe, it seemed. - Yeah, he always left the weapons. - He would leave bloody clothes. It seems like he would somehow change on the scene. But he never really took valuables. - Yeah. - In New Orleans. - In New Orleans, he did. - Yeah, so this is in New Orleans. And it's an interesting thing because with these first few attacks, it almost feels to me like there is a little trial and error. - Yeah. - That was one person who wants to do. You know, how do they, what is their style? Like, it's there in their like puberty era. - Yeah. - That is hacking. - Or he thinks he needs to take something. - Exactly. - To take a look at this storyline. - That just adds time or it's an extra thing. I don't need to do so that's not why I'm here. - Yeah. - To begin with, totally. - Kind of thing. - I wonder why he would switch from a meat cleaver to an axe? Cause I almost feel like maybe it was just like, whatever's available. - Yeah. - Yeah. - Yeah. - I also think that we end up finding more success with some weapons and others. - Makes sense. - Yeah. - So they stick with one more than the other one. - Yeah. - And I think he finds an axe at one of the. - There's a couple of them. So I think he just maybe. - It just do. - Available. - And he's like, oh, I love an axe. - Yeah, he's like, oh, I've done that before. - If I see this, I'll grab that. - It comes to it. - It comes to it. - Yeah. - When I was looking at the chart for this, one of the first things that I noticed was that we have a Neptune and Uranus opposition going on. So this is another, this Uranus Neptune opposition is another one of these incredibly rare, very, very unusual transits that happens. It's something that occurs really very irregularly. - 'Cause they're so slow moving. - So slow moving. This is, we haven't had a Uranus Neptune opposition since this time. - Wow. - We also have a ton of planets that are at 22 degrees. Now, I recently have looked at the charts for the top five most notorious serial killers of the 20th century because what else does one do? - Of course. - At their time. - Yes. - And this 22 degree point is present in a ton of their charts. - And it doesn't matter what house. It's just 22 degrees in any house. - And that was also the degree that Saturn and Pluto met in 2020 when the pandemic started. And in fact, it was in January, January 12th, that we had the Sun, Saturn, Pluto, the South node, all at 22 degrees. And I remember looking at that and being like 22, like what's significant there, yeah. And I see it across all of these charts is 22. - In just a minute. - We have the moon at 22 degrees, Venus at 22 degrees, Uranus at 22 degrees of Capricorn, which is actually the same point that it starts during the pandemic. So there's this 22 that I'm sort of like planting the seed of because we're actually gonna see it continue to unfold through all of these charts. - Okay. - And like for anyone listening when they're looking at their chart, I have 22 degrees in my chart. - This doesn't necessarily mean that you are a killer or that you are going to be at the forefront of an upcoming attack. - Doesn't mean you're nothing. - It doesn't mean you're nothing, yeah. - Not worth saying, just saying. - Right, don't rest. You never know what's around the corner. - It's gonna happen. - Yeah, stay vigilant. - There are certain degrees in astrology that have certain energy associated with them. - Oh, see, I didn't know that. - Yes, that's interesting. - Yes, and it would seem to me that there's definitely a lot of pressure around this 22 degree point. - Because it's ending the cycle, you think? - I think. - Or nearing the end of a cycle? - It seems to me, I mean in numerology, 22 is considered to be one of these like master numbers where it has like a certain vibration around it, this repeating number, sort of energy. And I think that maybe there's this, you know, each degree has sort of a different story. Twenty nine is the anoretic degree. It's the end of the cycle. Twenty two feels like it is almost like a point of, it's like a climax point. Okay. You know, it's like a point where things pop off. Right. But we're going to happen. Yes. So we have this twenty two number here, which we're going to see. We're going to sort of be chased by throughout all of these. And I also wanted to flag that I noticed that the sun and the south node were conjunct this evening of this initial attack. I've also noticed that the south node seems to be very, very present in charts of serial killers. And also in charts of attacks and charts of like the nights that things happen, the big days for something. And you know, as a someone who has a sun, south node conjunction in my own chart, like I can attest to the fact that like, we can have drama without murder. But there are just things that have a certain intensity. And this is one of them. So August 13th, we have this, this first attack about a month later. There is this second attack, which is conchetta and Joseph Rezeto, an entering through an unlatched kitchen window. This is another case of a meat cleaver. Bull survive, though they are disfigured from this. Joseph is blind in one eye. We see this continuation of this Uranus Neptune opposition here. Again, this only happens every 170 years. So it's not going to happen again until 2018. I don't even know. Yeah, like, I mean, we're out. We're like, I can't do quick math. Yeah. Some of us might still be kicking others. Probably. We've done it, baby. And there also is this interesting sort of like a grand cross that's being formed here between Jupiter, which is in Libra at this time, Cardinal activation. So there's a lot of energy, but we don't get into some of the deeper signatures of the Axeman himself until we get into the history. Like, we go through time and the chronology a little bit more. Okay. Really the, the, we actually, the next year, June 27th, 1911, we have another attack. This one is on Joseph and Mary. Jo, we know them. Those are. We sure do. No, they're historical figures. Yeah, Mary. Joseph and Mary, Mary is actually pregnant in this too. She's a 16 year old pregnant woman. She survives. Joseph does not. But it's interesting because even these attacks, like these are being referred to as the cleaver attacks. And they're sort of erratic. You know, it's, we have 1910s. We have in 1911. And then in 1912, it's Tony and Joanna Shiambra. And this is a very, very important one because this is similarly, you know, in their sleep comes in at night, but this is with a gun. So whoever does this shoots them both at close range while they are asleep while they're sleeping. These two also Italian grocers, successful merchants. And this one is definitely sort of flagged as like, was this mafia related? Is this something that has to do with like an extortion gone wrong? Yep. Give some more of those facts. It does. But this story actually ends up coming back around in the Axeman. Uh-huh. Because this is Mrs. Tony. Yep. And this becomes sort of like the only time that we see the proper Axeman himself given nod to any of these earlier attacks. Yeah. But what do you guys think of these? We actually have a final one, Anna and Alina, uh, is that same year of, or no, many years later comes back around. Like, what do you think about these sort of like erratic earlier attacks from almost a decade before? It feels like it could be like, um, trying it out. And like, kind of just failing and trying and failing. Like, this feels like a trial and error. It's definitely, it has that, it has that air to it. I would say, but at the same time, they're like, it was so violent back then that it could be unrelated. It could just be a random, but I don't know. There's something to it that feels it's because it's so frenzied. And like, frenzied, you know, frenetic and like, not together, that it feels like it could be him just like early him. Yes, you know, and there's some and we'll, we'll get into this more, but, you know, in what was going on? Who was it? Who'd done it? Really? And like the mystery of it all. Obviously, there's different theories, right? There's the theory that it was Mafia related. There's also this theory of what was called the black hand, which was this extortion ring that was going on. Specifically targeting immigrants, Sicilian, Italian, successful merchants. And they were basically, they would say like they would leave letters and be like, shut it down, give us the money, or you will kill you, will kill your family. It's just that they didn't really kill the family. It's more of a threat. Yeah, it was the threat. Yeah. So like, these are obviously very extreme versions of this, but with Tony and Joanna in particular, you know, these were, you know, they were very successful merchants. They were successful grossers. They were shot, which has a little bit more of an association with some of the other more organized violence that was going on. But then with Anna and Alina, which is December 22nd, 1917. So we jump five years later. It's a right before like the official eyes beginning. Yes. It starts with a gun and it ends with an axe. Interesting. So what happens tonight, it's almost like he found like this in the process. Yes. Anna wakes up to see a shadow. We figure over her husband. And he has a gun. And he basically set holding a gun to her is like, shut up or I'll kill you. I guess in the other hand has an axe bashing the husband over the head with this axe. Oh my god. And dude, why do you need both? Yeah, an axe would shut me the hell off. Yeah, seriously. On, on the way out of this house after he's like bashed, doesn't take anything but just like his threatening, right? Like crazy. Wax the 14-year-olds, who's in another room, strikes the 13-year-old in an arm, right? So it's a 14-year-old gets bashed in the head. 13-year-old gets struck in the arm. But this is the first case where we see what ends up becoming the signature entry of chiseling through the door. Yeah. Like that bottom panel. The greatest thing ever. Yeah. And the fact that there were some cases where people would wake up the next day and find their door chiseled in. And it just like was not, it was too thick for the axe to get through. Like they tried to know that you were that close to it. But he was trying to get in. And you do it like the bottom panel, right? Yeah. Okay. So it leaves the state. It's crazy to me that in this, so just this one was really notable to me. Yeah. Because this December 22nd, 1917, and we do have a time, which is a delight for all of us 3 a.m. Oh wow. The witching hour. Fantastic. We have this switch happen where it almost feels like whoever is doing this finds their vibe. It's like they find their flow. They're getting their flow state. Yeah. Because they had, they're maybe gonna do it like they did in 1912 with the gun. But then they're like, but I can do, I can make it even scarier. Right. And more terrifying. Right. Yeah. By way of this blunt sharp object, combo blunt and sharp. Yeah. And like switches in the midst of it. And then we never see a gun again. And then in the next attack, it's an axe. So yeah. Yeah. See that feels, that feels like it right there. You know, you see the gun again. It feels like you found it. Yeah. And you don't really see missing items anymore or anything like that. Because like, it's like, he realized like, I don't need to do that. Yeah. I could just carry enough. What I'm just carrying off. Bash their heads in. So in this chart, we have some of the things that I'm going to end up that really become notable for when this is like the crux of this as this is really going on. So we have a South node Pluto conjunction. And again, the South node is is basically a past life. When we see the South node and the North node, which are triggered by eclipses, the South node speaks to where we have come from karma, destiny, like things that are sort of, you know, predate our existence. Yeah. And it does give this sort of like dark, supernatural tone to it, especially when it is working directly with Pluto. Pluto is the planet of the underworld. Oh, so when Pluto is involved in a chart, death, death, death. It's death, death, death. Oh, shit. So we have this. And so to me, I have goosebumps thinking about like, oh, whoever is doing this, like finds their freaky underworld signature in the process of this attack, which is so spot on for what seems to happen here. Yes. Yes. And it's almost like, like past past him coming into like this new life, you know what I mean? Totally. And like what was going on previously, you know, and we'll talk about some of the potential suspects for this. It really is just one name. I was going to say this really. Yeah. And I, it's a strong theory. - It's pretty interesting. - I mean, the Mafia connection, I find interesting. I do think it's some possible Mafia connection, but also like a very deeply mentally ill person. - Yeah. - This is it. I think that this is somebody who was like, perhaps like conspiratorial wrapped up in this, and then like vigilante is like, I can taste. Like you think you've sent threatening letters? Like what if we send threatening letters? You know, when you were saying like threatening letters, like, you know, we're gonna kill your whole family, but we don't 'cause we've scared you. It's almost like the one person who was involved in this that took it too far. - Took it too far. - And like took it. - That actually did the thing all the way. - Yeah. - When that was not actually the plan. - No, and it was like not required either. - No, it's like you did way too much. - Yeah, like to be a criminal in this organization, like you didn't need to go that far. - You didn't need to do that. - And it seems like there's, you know, there's this erratic nature to it where like you couldn't say, you know, their first two were a month apart spooky, right? But then the next one is a year later. Then we have another one that's a year after that. So there's enough of this sort of like erratic timeline that it's not back to back. So people can start to sort of like relax. - And just forget the movie. - And then it comes back around again. - Yeah. - So until it all starts to come, you know, until it is in a quicker sense. What is the word that I want to talk about? - Succession. - Succession. Yes. - Well, the interesting thing too is that he actually went to prison for, I think it was at the end of 1911, like this main suspect aired some. His real name was Frank Doc Mumphrey, but he's went by the alias of Joseph Mumphrey. So he may have been sent to prison, but then in the summer of 1918, when everything started back up again, he was paroled. - So it really is. - It feels pretty, it's perfect. It really does line up. And not only then speaks to those first attacks being legitimately him. - Yeah, and it actually has been warm up. - Yeah. - I have to say his chart, done, done, done. - Oh, here he is. - It fits into the attacks in such a fascinating way. - Yeah. - Including the fact that he has that 22 degree signature in his chart, obviously. - Oh, okay. - I'm so interested by that. - I know, I know. - It's a very interesting. - It's a more recent discovery that I've had. - It's a good example. - But it's like one of those where I'm like, this again, like a pattern recognition bitch can't understand. - Yeah, you cannot see that. - Well, in astrology is all about patterns. - Yeah, exactly. So this suspect, you know, is it, there's obviously some sort of, you know, if this is not verified, right? But what we have for a birthday for them is November 1st, 1875, which puts them as a Scorpio Sun, with a conjunction to Jupiter in Scorpio. So lots of Scorpio energy here. And most significantly, this chart for the attack on December 22nd, 1917 is a Scorpio rising. So this is very much the energy of like, oh, I'm locked in and I've found it. I've found that thing that I'm doing. - And Jupiter's only going to expand on all that spooky scary energy. - Yes. - Jupiter expands. - This is so fun to sit between both of you right now. I'm like, yeah. - Yeah, yeah. - Yeah, yeah. - Yeah, yeah. - That's so very interesting. - Another spooky thing in this Anna, and Alina chart, and this attack where I think that it is Frank Mumfree who finds his way, is that we were coming into a Neptune, a Saturn Neptune conjunction at this time. This only happens every 36 years. We just had one this year. - Yeah. - So one of the signatures of 2026 is a Saturn Neptune conjunction in Aries. There was a Saturn Neptune conjunction happening at this time here too. - So you can also find a fire sign in Lee. And this was happening in Leo. So there is this sort of like drama, intensity. Pay attention to me. Like I need you to focus on like theatrics. Like it's really about the sort of the dramatic of it. And I think that which is also like this person. - Yes, yes, yes, yes. I think that this is also what our suspect is finding himself sort of like getting titillated by here. More so than the other ones is like, oh, I can chisel out this panel. I can leave a signature. I can scare all of these people. I don't even have to necessarily kill in order to be the scariest one. Because we're gonna see what happens when he kills and then doesn't kill in these subsequent attacks too. - Yeah. - So then we have a Spanish flu rolling in. - Oh, here comes the influenza. - Here comes March 4th, 1918. We are coming into an exact Neptune Saturn conjunction at this time, Neptune is at 4 degrees, Saturn is at 8 degrees. They're retrogrades, they're going backwards and forwards here. But we very much have that tone of things are changing. Neptune is very much associated with like allusion and delusion also with sickness. Neptune is both like mental health but it's also physical health. We have this sort of like what's coming around is this sort of foggy shadowy mist sweeping over. And that makes sense. - Yes, and I think that, and Neptune is one of the things that we saw in Jack the Ripper too, a very active Neptune, which is like another sort of mystery and it's elusive and there's death, right? Pluto is making an incanjong to them. It's at three degrees of cancer. So it's kind of like waiting in the wings, being activated in its own way as well. But most importantly, all of this is happening during Pisces season. And Pisces is ruled by Neptune. - And super, super dreamy, but also delusions, addictions, mental health issues. - Yes. - Oh, yeah. - And just like it did in 2020, this all started, this all started unraveling during Pisces season. - Oh, damn. - It doesn't change. The fact that when we have this first flu outbreak, it's March 11th, 1918, which is, in fact, we can fact check this, but it is the day that the pandemic is declared. - Yeah, you're correct. - Which is crazy. - That is crazy. - Crazy. - Yeah. So Neptune, the Saturn Neptune conjunction is the main signature of this, but the sun is, on this day, March 11th, 1918, we have a new moon in Pisces. It's giving something is really wrong. - Mm-hmm. - Something. - Yeah. - Pay attention. On this day, we had 100 people second before noon. And this is when we know that this is not contained. This is not going well. - Yeah. - So this is in the backdrop of the Axeman at this time. On May 23rd, 1918, we have the attack which is really the first Axeman attack. My notes on this are plentiful. On Joseph and Katherine Maggio, May 23rd. So this is a Gemini season attack. - Which is chaotic. - chaotic in its own right. Yes, they were living it. They grossers lived above a grocery store. The bottom panel was knocked out with a chisel. And that is how this person came in and entered their home. This was an attack where we have, like a boulder murdered, first of all. Throats were slid. - Yeah, she was almost a capitator, wasn't she? - Yes. This is one of the most brutal murders of all of all. We also have no looting. No, nothing was stolen. Everything was totally intact. - There were jewels, money, all in plain sight right there. - The Axe was found. There were bloody clothes on the scene from the murder. And significantly, chalk outside said, Miss Maggio will sit up tonight like Mrs. Tony. - That's so spooky. - So spooky. - Connected. - And this is, I have goosebumps, but this is a direct reference to the attack that had happened with guns. And the only time that people, this is essentially saying I'm back. Yes, I'm back. And this is crazy because, you know, people are like, "Could it be the same person?" That was with guns. This is with an Axe. But they're directly alluding to it. - Yeah, people change. People change. - That's all the time. - People grow. And some of them don't, like I think people think that serial killers always have one thing that they do. That's not always the case. - No, a lot of times they just evolution. - Like look at the night stocker. Like he did guns a different thing. - Yeah. - Like it's like there's so many of them that they just take what's in front of them and we'll do whatever. The night stocker, Pisces, double Pisces, with the 22 signature, yes. - Oh my God. - But you need to figure out the 22 of it all. - This is gonna be too big. - I know, I know, it's the significant. - It's significant, yeah. - Yeah, so this is such an interesting illusion because it almost feels to me like, "Hey, I am, it's like saying I'm the same person." - Yeah. - You know, like I know about what happened back in 1912. - Right. - It's 1918 now. Like I'm making a direct reference. Also, keep in mind, that was May 16th, 1912. This was May 23rd, 1918. - Yeah, very close. - So it was like, "Hey, let me lay this out for you." - Yeah. - People are like, "Go to be the same person." - Same person. - Right. Well, I don't know. - Also the sit-up like Mrs. Tony. I'm like, that is chilling. - Chilling. - So, I did a little look- I did a little looky-loo into it. - Yeah. - And what it is believed that that is a reference to is that a traditional wake or funeral before the night before this, you know, a funeral, there was a sort of a ceremonial practice of having your own private vigil where the corpse would be on display and like crop stuff. - Set up. Yeah. - And this was something that would only be take place sort of like in, you know, the privacy of a family. - Right. - Yeah. - But it was something that was known within especially Italian communities at this time. - That's so much sense now. - So it also is giving, this is coming from inside. Like the call is coming from the house. - Yeah, absolutely it is. - So maybe, you know, obviously we have all of these Italian Americans who were the victims here. And there was thinking of like this is a racist person who was going after these, but this could also be somebody who is within the Christian community. - Yes. And this is a case where at first they were like, Mrs. Tony, like who the hell is Mrs. Tony? No one had died recently of Mrs. Tony, but people in the neighborhood knew that Joanna was referred to as Mrs. Tony by customers. - Oh. - And that gives full blown mafia right there. - That is what it does. - So this is someone who it's like, oh, I am close at this. - Yes, I knew this person. - Yes. - So they're either in, I would say they're either in that community, or they are someone who like has very close ties to that community. Like it's within it at times. - And it's maybe monitoring. - But not necessarily like an Italian American themselves. - Yes. - It could be either, yeah. - Yes. - And it's somebody who was very aware of the impact and loss from these earlier deaths. - Yup. - It was someone who was like, oh, like here's a little reference point. Remember how you lost a little community member? - A little reference point. - Yeah, yeah. Here's another loss. - That was me. - Which is so so difficult. - So diabolical. We have another South node active in this chart. It's at 22 degrees. - Spooky. - South node, 22 degrees of Gemini. It's making a conjunction to Jupiter and Gemini at 18 degrees. - Expanding that spooky energy. - Expanding the spooky energy. And then Saturn, Neptune, are still conjunct, still adding this backdrop. Saturn is the original, like Pluto is a grim reaper. Pluto is death. Saturn is the OG death. - The grim reaper, yeah. - In your, our ancient astronomers did not, you know, before the telescope. We only believe that. - That's gonna see if Saturn was the final planet in the solar system. It was the outer limit. So Saturn is death, just because it's like, that's the end of the line. And Saturn is the represented as the, you know, the collection of the harvest. So we have the Sith. We have this sort of like we're reaping what we sow here. And the grim reaper aesthetically was modeled after Saturn. And the archetypes of Saturn. - So Saturn. - That's your ruler. - That's my planet. - It's a little ruler. - It's it me too. - It was with the amber formation here. - Yeah. - Yeah, rules with an iron set. - Yeah, a little bit. - With this. - Yeah. - So it's, there's definitely this sort of like haunted, spooky, you know, death-coded chart that was going on the night of this. Not to mention it is a Scorpio moon that night. So we have this callback to potentially our suspect - Yeah. - being one of the activated. - Yes. So yeah, so this is the first axmen murder. - Like officially. - They say official. - Yeah. - Even though it's like, hello, he's calling back to another murder. - Clearly, it's a report. - Yes. And he wants you to know he's back. - Yes. - And it feels like very much and maybe this is because we have the flu coming in at this time. We also are still in the throes of World War One. - Yeah. - At this time. - Yeah, a lot going on. - Just a few things. - And the drama of it, the Leo of it is kind of like, hey, knock, knock, pay attention. Did you forget me? And people were like, yeah, that's scary, but also like. - Like all of this. - The rest. - Yeah. (all laughing) So the next month, we have another attack. And this is the attack on Lewis and Harriet Lowe. This is the mistress. - Yes. - Oh, yes, yes. - So this is an interesting one because we have a story here of after this attack, they both had initially survived. And Harriet, the mistress, keeps changing her story around who she believes had done it. At first, she's like, it's the neighbors. And she's like, actually, it's the person I was having in a fair with, it's the person who was sleeping next to me. - Oh my God. - Which is also like, what wait? He bashed his own head. - Yeah, like he bashed his own head. - At least felt to understand that one. - Yeah, but it's also really sad because she ends up, you know, she's very disfigured. She has like this horrible, you know, she's been attacked by an ass. And she has surgery the next year, which is, does disaster. She ends up dying as a result of the surgery. - So sad. - So like, she is a victim. You know, she is a fatality, I should say, from that. - Absolutely, yeah. - It's just not immediate. - Yeah. - And in this chart, we have, again, we're still seeing that signature of Saturn and Neptune. And we start to get closer to what ends up becoming among the spookiest, ukiest signatures of them all, which is the Jupiter Pluto conjunction. - Yeah. - Which when we were talking about this case, you were like, is that a Jupiter Pluto conjunction? - I saw. - Yep. - It was? - Yes. - Yes. - Do you know? - Jupiter, the planet of expansion. Pluto, the planet of death. When these two come together. - It's not really a party. - I was just gonna say, it's a party. - Yeah. - Sometimes some kind of party. - Well, I do love her as a Jupiter as Casino daddy. - Very loving one. - Very good daddy. - I love that. - I love for us to imagine. I love, you know, one day I'm going to like, personify all of these planets. I'll cast them all. - Oh my God. - He's just one woman, yeah, please. - But I love the idea of, like, imagine Jupiter as, you know, you go to a casino and you see someone, like Hawaiian shirt, toughs of hair. - It's going all the way in. - Sun glasses on, like smoking a cig. - So smoking a cig, like ladies on either arm, rolling it down, like, and then you're like, this, wow, like what a scene, but you're also like, kind of smelly. - Yeah. - Because he, like, when was the last time he shower? - It's going on there. - Like, does he even know what day it is? - He's living with Jack Nicholson in a, what is that movie? Which is a V-Switch? - Oh my God. - 100%. - Yes. - And I do have a new working theory that you can always tell someone who has, specifically a man I've been testing this theory with, someone with SAGE in their sun moon or rising because they love Hawaiian shirts. So go back through your social roster and see any Hawaiian shirt. - Here's the thing. I kind of love a Hawaiian shirt, and I am a sad rising. I don't wear them, but I can appreciate them. - The one that I wore when I was a dad on my spirituals, I fucking love that shirt. - So share with us, like, what is, as a sad rising, like, what is your draw to a Hawaiian shirt? - It's just outrageous. - That's it. - It's just how I'm working here and there it is, yes. - I say that it is the, it just can't resist the intersection of, like, kitchen Vegas. - Yes. - Yes. - Yeah, it's irresistible. - Yeah. - Because my style, sometimes, I fully can admit, is a little tacky, and I, like, I fall into that. And they do say you're supposed to dress as your rising. - Yes. - Oh, damn. - It's irresistible. - It's a little kitchen Vegas. - Yeah, and my rising's a miracle. I gotta look that up. - But it makes sense because you're drawn to, like, dark academia kind of looks. - Oh, so that's okay. - That's so true, right? - That's so true. - What is your rising again? - Unfortunately, it's Capricorn Rising, and this is why, like, I can't seem to. - That's not your style. - I can't escape business casual. - Yeah, but I feel like you have, like, a fun, funky way of dressing. - Thanks. You know, it's, but if I see a blazer, I lock in. - Okay. - So why aren't you? - I can never get me away from a blazer. - I love a blazer. A blazer doesn't work on me, though. - I will. - A blazer, I'm, like, haunted by a blazer. - I love you. - So many blazers. - It's, it's. - You're a Capricorn rising. - Sun. - Sun. - With the fur of a rising, of course. - Yes. - You are a blazer. - I was born in a blazer. - I was so strongly related to that. Yes, I was, I feel like I can't, it's like every time I get dressed, it's like I look in the closet and I'm like, is it blazing? - No. - Looking back. - No, blazer blazer. - It's like eating it. - Take to it. - But it really does. A blazer hates to see me coming. - Yes. - Because I didn't know it was that it's about to get. - Yeah, it's happening. (laughing) - It's ironic. - I think I was born in the Hawaiian shirt and a feather boa. - Yes. - Oh my god. - Take me there. (laughing) - Take me to that room, that hospital bed. - Yes. - I love it. - But circling back. So Jupiter. - Jupiter is ruled by, so sad is ruled by Jupiter. - Yes. - So that is the correlation of sadge and Jupiter. So Jupiter is a go big go home. So wherever it goes, it's more and more, it's excess. So when the Jupiter is on, not good, oh, it's more and more excess. - Death. - Death. - Death. - It's destruction. - Yes. - And now it becomes, in addition to Saturn and Neptune, which is still going on through this whole time 'cause it's a very. Long, slow moving, traditional. Yes, we have then also Jupiter and Pluto coming into the mix. OK. So here we have this attack. They, you know, there's-- and we get into this sort of frenzy of, like, who does it? Oh, we also have the South note at 22 degrees, of course. Why wouldn't we? Why not? Why not? Making a conjunction to Jupiter. Oh. Yeah, I know. It's crazy. This 22 is wild. What does it mean? It means something is a mess. So simply something is a mess. Yeah. So then in August, we have another attack. And this one is on Anna Schneider. Oh, yeah. She's pregnant. She wakes up to a figure looming above her. Her axe, she'll later find, has gone missing. We have this Jupiter, Pluto, conjunction, getting stronger and stronger by this point. Jupiter is at four degrees. Pluto is at five. They're coming together. Mars is obviously at 22 degrees, because why wouldn't it be in a chart? And Mars is, like, more, like, male energy, like-- Oh, dang. --kind of toxic in this case, I'm saying. Yes, 100%. Yes. I mean, like, all of these things are sort of like, oh, you want to see the worst example of these planets coming together? Yeah, they're definitely at their faults here. Damn. So they're in their flop era? Yeah, they're in the flop era. They're in their flop. They're not exorbitant, you know? So this is when-- so she survives. She actually has her baby two days ago. And these signatures, this Jupiter, Pluto, conjunction that we're moving to also was going on in 2020, which is nuts. Hate that. Yeah. So that is another one of those interesting signatures because remember, there's a pandemic happening here. Like, through this time, we also have this other horror that's happening, especially to New Orleans, which is that as we are getting deeper and deeper into this 1918-1919, it's like New Orleans is getting more and more sort of like the onslaught. And the death toll is only rising between these murders and the pandemic. Yes. Yes. Like, coincide, I think. Yeah. This is like plague. There it is, the amount of death. Yeah. A few days later, August 10th, just a five days later. Yes. So this is like, we've really heated up now. Yeah. You know? You don't even take it a breath. And then she's an 80-year-old by the way. Joseph Romano. I know that kills me. Yeah. So Joseph Romano and 80-year-olds lived with his nieces who heard this happening. They saw the attacker and described him as dark tall, heavy-set, black suit, slouch hat. Spooky as fuck. That's interesting. Spooky as fuck. Honestly, I just picture the, I can't think of his name, but he played the X-Men in American Horror Story. Oh, yes. His whole get up there. It's totally personified. Because he had a slouch hat. I can't remember if he has a slouch hat, but he's got that like, swanky man kind of vibe. Well, I was looking up like, what is a slouch hat? And is it coming back around in style? Like, is it going to be the new Fedora? I fear it won't. These are, but you know, but you'll know the hats. I'm looking at that. They're wide-brimmed felt hats. And they are very functional. They were worn by people who worked outdoors a lot because they provided good like shade protection. They were a little floppy or the Fedora. They also were worn by people like vets for them, people who had been in the military. So they had this very sort of like functional quality to them, which is giving more working class than a top hat. And I don't know if Jack the Ripper, for example, like, you know, I feel like when we, do we have, do we know what he was wearing? Or is it mostly just through like the mythology? Or I guess we really don't know what he was wearing. Because I feel like when I think of Jack the Ripper, I'm thinking that like the gentleman and the tape and the top hat. Yep. Here we have an instance of an actual hat being cited, but it is functional over fabulous. Yeah. He wasn't wearing a slow chat in American Horror Story. No. It is the same guy that played Mar-Low in 30 days and I thought I didn't know if you knew that. Oh, interesting. Yeah. Yeah, he's great. I'm so glad we clicked. So after this attack, you know, we have all of the signatures. We have the chisel door. We have the axe left. We have a full-blown manhunt that goes on where we're like, this has gone too far. Finally. I mean, look at all of these incidents. And finally, they're like, we gotta do something. We should stop this. Which is also like, stop this man. Yeah. Like, what are you doing? I'm not going on since 1910 at this point exactly. Like you guys are just going to let this happen. They're just going to let people chisel people's back door open. He's coming into my house. Right. Well, that doesn't kill me. He's going to kill me. We're going to infect each other. Yeah. They're coughing in my head and spreading shit around. It is so interesting to me that there is a pandemic going on and he doesn't give a fuck because that was actually one of the things during the COVID pandemic that people were joking about. They were like, oh, there's going to be so much less crime because it wants to go into someone's house right now. Like no one wants to get sick. COVID so scary, but this guy just didn't go fuck which honestly does like almost solidify in my belief that there is a level of mental illness that it's just not computing because you feel like most of mostly people would be like, yeah, I don't want to die of illness. He's not even taking anything. Not even considering it. He's not taking anything. He's just going in like for the help of this, just to do this freaky shit and bashing people's heads open. I mean, I remember when, like during COVID, we were insane amounts of PPE because it's a lot born, you know, like when I would do autopsies during the pandemic, we were in like literal like double biohazard like you were doing pantopsies during the pandemic. Yeah. Yeah. It's crazy. We were in so many levels of PPE. It looks like we were like a bomb squad. It was insane. Yeah. The home and you'd still have a face shield like implanted on your face like, yeah, wow. And you think about this guy and he's going in and obviously he's getting covered in blood. Nobody's saying he's doing, he's wearing a mask either. So I want like he says that. Yeah. He's wearing like, that's the other thing he's wearing like suits and, you know, what he clothes are found. It's just he doesn't give a fuck. He doesn't have an eye. He started in 1910. He started before this. Yeah. And to me, like, I think we talked about this with Jack the Ripper too, where they're almost get like becomes this crescendo of like, catch me, catch me, catch me, catch me. Yeah. What the fuck are you doing? Exactly. Yeah. And it's this like push and pull between obviously not wanting to actually stop because you have blood left in your psychotic. You just can't. Yeah. But also like you don't want to be ignored. Yeah. Like you're making enough for the scene. Yeah. You want credit. You want the frenzy. Yeah. You want the drama. You want like the sort of, you want a little attention. Well, that's pretty good. Yeah. You want the letter? Yes. They always are leading up to. Yes. So after this attack, there was this manhunt. And then this was something when I listened back. And it's also crazy because this episode that you guys did when you first covered this was in 2018. And this was, we're talking about 1918. Oh, yeah. So what I kept doing my notes. I was like eight. I'd write 18 and 19, 19, 19, 19, 19, 19, 20, 18, I'm like, which year? Which year? Which is funny. Yeah. And I mentioned this in the, when you guys first covered this in 2018, but apparently the next day there was a sighting of this killer masquerading as a woman walking around town. But like, what? Yeah, it's like, you know, so you know who the killer is. Right. And also know when the killer is in drag. Like, wait a minute. Who is that? I mean, we can arrest them then. Yeah. Can we maybe stop them? I don't like that. I mean, like, you're just like titillated by this. Yeah. But it's also a lady. But it's kind of fun. Yeah. Right. But people were just losing their shoes. Yeah. Um, we also then the same day, there's a person who finds the axe and a chisel outside of their door. You imagine. No. Knowing that you were that close to having your head bashed in by a madman, yeah, I'd leave this state. Yeah. I would never sleep again. And this was the incident where they were like, oh, it's actually too thick for the chisel. Yeah. Like they started. And then they're like, I give up. Yeah. I'd be so happy that I picked that door. Oh, I would buy fabulous. Give me 14 more. Yeah. 14. Yeah. Yeah. This was a great day for doors. That door. A great day for the door business. Yes. That store was like, come here. Yeah. We got them. We've got the door for you. Yep. Um, so on this day of this attack on this, on Joseph Romano, who, who did die, we have sort of like the essence of a lot of these signatures that we've been tracking. We have Jupiter and Pluto in a very, very close conjunction. We have the sun in Leo 16 degrees conjuncts Saturn, that original grim reaper and also Neptune all in Leo. So to me, this makes sense that we also find this sort of like frenzy around this of, I'm going to, like, I'm going on a spree, look at me, catch me if you can. You can't catch me. Yep. I'm going to continue this month of August. We see more and more of these examples of like, he tried to come in. And there was something that blocked. The door was chiseled, no one was home. There was an ass on the desk. There was, in one case, there was a tomatoes that were blocking the door so he couldn't come in. Which is also really interesting because if this is all the same person, back in the day, back in the old days, he did come in in other ways. He wouldn't come in there on a lunch, he would come in the window. So why is now he's like, if I can't make a little hole, I'm not coming. And I think it's because he's so connected to this signature now. - Yeah, I think you're right. - Like I think before he was fine with Willie Nilly. And then he's like, this is my thing. - This is who I am. - If I can't come in that door, then it's not me. And maybe they won't know it's me. And they need to know it's me. So he has to get in that same way. - And maybe I won't get the credit for this one if I enter a different way. - Yeah. I mean, this is the story of somebody who really wants to be known as the type of serial killer that he is. You know, and we're gonna get to the letter shortly. We're coming up on it, which is obviously one of the most iconic parts of this story. There's so many reasons. - Yes. - But it also, you know, it's like if this is the same person who started to, who took, you know, this extortion a little too far, and then was like killing when he could have just threatened. And then was shooting, and then realized like, I can make it even scarier if I use an axe, and I can make it even scarier if I chisel my way in. Then this is also someone who is like, I only am going to approach it through this sort of codified haunted spooky way. - Yes. - And I think that this killer knew like, and aspired to be Jack the Ripper. - Yeah. - And I think that he was, he knew that story. - I can see that I wanted to become the next Jack the Ripper. - I could totally see that, because the letters have such a similar energy about them. Like, I come from hell. - Yes, exactly. - And I'm a demon and catch me if you can. - And they're a little, they're like kinda cheeky at times. - They're very cheeky, you know? So I feel like I could, and he knew Jack the Ripper found a signature and stuck with it. - Yes. - He didn't really-- - He didn't really-- - Consistency. - Yeah, so if you're gonna really leave your mark. - Until that like grand finale with Mary Kelly. That was really the only time he deviated. And I think he just thought he found his calling. So he could not, he could not deviate. Because this is the calling. - And if this is a person who already is like mentally ill to begin with, and beginning this process of like, oh, I'm gonna just kill instead of threaten. - It's a ritual. - Yes. - Then like they, it also shows how they sort of completely divorce this original idea of like-- - Oh yeah. - And by the end of this, like we aren't targeting Italian grocers anymore. - No, we're just gonna go everywhere. - We're gonna really miss the plot. - Yeah. - It starts as one thing and then completely sort of like morphs into another. - Yes, so false. - So then things are quiet for a little bit. Which is also so odd is that we have these like seasons of this, these attacks. - I almost wonder if he was either discouraged or nervous with the amount of times that he couldn't. Almost not as assigned as like with the amount of times he wasn't able to get through, you know? - Yeah, I mean, if we're being honest, not to say that we wanna have a perfect score of tallies, but he does not have a great kill score. - No, it's half, he does his 12 attacks and six kills. - Yeah. - And if he's in New Orleans, if he's from New Orleans, if he grew up there, he might take that stuff more like spiritually as a signly. - Absolutely, absolutely. - That like I need to take a step back. I think that's such a good point. - It feels like that's so in the culture. And so in where he grew up, if he grew up there, that would be something that he might take into account. - And I think that links itself so much to the fact that he thinks he's a specter. - Yeah. - But he's not like of this mortal realm. - Yes. - Kind of thing. - Yeah. - Yeah, I mean, he could also be going into these like fugues dates. - Yeah. - Where he is like in this sort of like hypnotic space of this. - Which is very Neptune. - Very Neptune. Very, very Neptune. And it also, it's like this, I mean, I feel like there are some murderers through time where they'll take time off. - Oh, sure. It could be too late. - I was just going to say it's exactly like 30 years off. - Yeah. And it's sort of, and then like you go back to your normal life and you return to whatever it is that you're doing. - He could have got a job. - He just buried that desire. - I mean, he could have got a job. He could have got a family. - He could have got sick. - I was just wondering if he could have got sick. - Yup. - Something kept him from focusing on it. - It wasn't a super long time. - No. - Long enough. - Yeah. - Where it's a weird, but. - Well, back in March now, 1919, 'cause we would keep playing with these same times, which is so bizarre. - Astrologically. - Yes. - Really strange. - March 9th, 1919. We have a case of Charles and Rosie. And this one is really, really sad. - This is, you know, we have, what's interesting before I say why it is incredibly sad is that this case actually evokes the very, very first one that happened astrologically. - With Harriet and August back in 1910, we had that Uranus Neptune opposition. In this case, we have a Saturn Uranus opposition. - Interesting. - So it kind of like, it's like we're back in, you know, there are these patterns that keep emerging. - Yeah. - That it seems like he keeps striking at the, at the epicenter of these different astrological signatures. Okay, this is a departure for a second, but I have to share it before I forget. So in the 1980s, there was this study that came out and it was called something sensational, like the moon was full and nobody noticed. And the point of it was, it was this British scientist who basically said people are not affected by the moon and I'm gonna prove it. And when I first started studying astrology, this was basically the only study around that that was circulating. And it was like, you know, I didn't like, who likes the study like this? I'm like, no, no, I don't. But there's something like this is crazy. I had a weird feeling about it. It felt like it was a little pointed. It had like some statement it was trying to make. I so I knew about it. And then recently when I was doing an episode for astrology on the moon and the moon phases, I was like, oh, I wonder what's going on. Like if there, if there's any other studies, turns out that from the time that I started to practice astrology to now, that study has now been challenged many, many times over. - It should be, yeah. - And they're like, this person had an agenda. They were a misogynistic. - It felt like it was a misogynistic from the job. - I'm like, you know intuitively, in the same way that you know intuitively that the moon affects people. - Yeah. - The moon is mother. - And the moon is mother. - And the hospitals, they always, you know, doctors and nurses and attendees will always say, it's crazy on a full moon, yeah. And like sure, it's anecdotal. But it's also like our anecdotal experience is also our linked experience. - It's just a scientific where any person water, like mostly and then the moon controls the tide. - Right, I mean, you don't have to, you don't have to continue to extrapolate on the rest of astrology just to verify the fact that the moon obviously is going to affect us as human. - Very sure. - Where animals, we have a different response. All animals respond to the moon differently. - Of course. - Hunting is different on a full moon than a new moon. - Yeah. - The reason I bring it up is to say that in these new round of studies that have come out, they have found that the moon in particular with people with different types of chemical sort of, people with different types of like chemistry in their brain, people who are bipolar, people who have schizophrenia, people who have these different conditions are more affected by the moon. - That makes sense. - That makes sense. - Others, right? - Yeah. - And to me, this is so interesting because it also is very much like, oh, what can we learn? - Yeah. - By studying the way that different people's chemistry functions, then just sort of being like, we can't look at them, we have to other them and not pay any attention to people who are different than us, right? But actually, if we change our perspective and learn from people who have different chemistry than we do, we are probably gonna find like, incredible things about nature, the interconnectivity of like life-long timing in general. - So I say all of that to say that this is, you know, perhaps our suspect here was also very much affected by seasons, by tidal changes, by astrological shifts that were happening. - Yeah. - Because as these things were sort of like, ebbing and flowing and swelling and changing, he was also going through these different-- - Like these phases. - Yeah, pieces, valleys of his own energy, his energetics, right? - That's really fascinating. - That is. (gentle music) - So in this attack on Charles and Rosie, this very sad one, Rose wakes up to her husband fighting with an intruder, she's holding her 18 month old baby and she's pleading with this murderer to like stop and to leave them alone and to go away and he swings at them and kills the baby. And he, but both of the adults, Charles and Rosie survive so it is only the baby who dies in this case. And this is a very, you know, the chart for this is really intense. It's a Jupiter Pluto conjunction, very, very close four and five degrees, so very exact. We have that Saturn Uranus opposition. Uranus is the planet that's associated with shocking things, unexpected things, things that come out of nowhere, things that are not planned. I do not believe he planned to kill this baby. Yeah. I think that this was a casualty of this frenzied moment. Like just collateral damage. He was fighting with Charles. We've never heard of a physical altercation between him and someone else before. That was unexpected. Unexpected. I think that's the Uranus of all of it. I think it just, there was something that came out of nowhere, and it was right after this that he sends the letter. And I think that there is a direct correlation between this being in this like, oh, shit. Yeah. I'm really evil now. Yeah. I've really done. I've killed the baby. I am fully devil. Yeah. And he takes, he takes on the persona, takes it in that letter when he's like, I am from hell. He's very much does. So March 13th when the sun is at 22 degrees of Pisces and Saturn is at 22 degrees of Leo. We have me look at this letter. And it is incredibly iconic. I don't have it in front of me. I do. Oh, my God. Please read it. A steamed mortal, they have never caught me, and they never will. They have never seen me for I am invisible, even as the ether that surrounds your earth. I am not human being, but a spirit and a demon from the hottest hell. I am what you are, leanians. Is that how you say that, or leanians? I think so. I think. And your foolish police call the ax man. When I see fit, I shall come and claim other victims. I alone know whom they shall be. I shall leave no clue except my bloody acts besmirered with blood and brains of who I'm whom I have sent below to keep me company. If you wish, you may tell the police to be careful, not to rile me. Of course, I am a reasonable spirit. Of course. Are you as you've shown? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I take no offense at the way they have conducted their investigations in the past. In fact, they have been so utterly stupid as to not only amuse me, but his satanic majesty, Francis, Joseph, etc. But tell them to be where? Let them not try to discover what I am for it be better that they were never born than to incur the wrath of the ax man. I don't think there is any need of such warning for I feel sure the police will always dodge me as they have in the past. There lies and know how to keep away from all harm. Undoubtedly, you are leanians think of me as a most horrible murderer, murderer, which I am. But I could be much worse. Nailed it. Yeah. I am. Don't get it twisted. I'm not trying to claim anything else. I could be much worse if I wanted to be. If I wished I could pay a visit to your city every night at will, I could slay thousands of your best citizens for I am in close relationship with the Angel of Death. Now to be exact. Name dropping. Yeah. Yeah. A personal friend. Just saying period. Not to be exact at 1215 earthly time. My goodness. On next Tuesday night, I am going to pass over New Orleans in my infinite mercy. I am going to make a little proposition to you people. Here it is. I am very fond of jazz music and I swear by all the devils in the Netherlands that every person shall be spared and whose home a jazz band is in full swing at the time I have just mentioned. If everyone has a jazz band going, well, then so much better for you people. One thing is certain and that is some of your people who do not jazz it on Tuesday night. If there be any, we'll get the axe. Well, as I am cold and crave the warmth of my native Tartarus and it is about time I leave your earthly home. I will cease my discourse hoping that thou wilt publish this that it may go well with the I have been and will be the worst spirit that existed either in fact or realm of fancy tea. It's that it's it's the jazz for me. I would also be I wouldn't know what to do. I would jazz it. But it's like this is setting you up possibly setting you up like if like play jazz and I won't come to your house and then he's going to go around to all the places playing jazz. It's like a double bluff. Yeah. That is actually fucking terrifying jazz is like loud and like in jazzy and it's like that's scary, you're already scared now you're also drowning the lady, drowning out sound, making it easier for him to sabotage you around in your house, which might be exactly what he was waiting for. That. But I wouldn't know what to do personally. I feel I would jazz it. I would take my my odds into my hand, I would play some light jazz, but it has to be in full swing. It'll be in full swing. I would hear him coming, though, because I'd have it light and then when he comes in, jazz up and I'd be like full swing, you promised by all the doubles, yeah, to me it like in like obviously a much higher stakes way. It's giving the hoax poke a scene where all of the parents can't stop dance. Yes. Like it. Absolutely. Yeah. We're having fun. Yeah. Everything's fine. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Oh my god. I know. I know. I know. I know. I know. I know. I know. I feel like a widow's Bay missionary. I'm running around telling everyone. Spreading the good word. Yeah. I will continue spreading the good word. I watched the entire series in one day. We're rewatching it. I'm about to. Oh, well, I'll hop on. You've got to hop on. It's so good. No. No. No. I it has everything that I really need. Yeah. Yeah. It's like a comforting. It's so funny. Spooky, but really funny vibe. Yeah. Oh my god. I'm excited. Everything you want. What a wonderful thing to look forward to. Yes. Yes. Unlike. Unlike this. Unlike the March 19th. Yeah. 12, 15 a.m. Sort of worked out. Yeah. Many jazzed it. Many jazzed. No one killed. But like this. Okay. So this letter to me is everything. Yes. It is. It is my everything. There's so much to unpack. Yes. Okay. So first of all, this is like a proto chat GPT. Yeah. Like why are we so air you died in this? Like why are we so academic in this letter? And we float from like from like a more modern speaking to like the. Yeah. Yes. And you're so immediate. Yeah. Just like wait a minute. And it's like he's referencing like Greek mythology and out. Yeah. And he's pulling all of these like, you know, very high brow sophisticated. I'm smarter than. Yeah. I'm smarter than you. And then that's into tartarist. Which is also like, okay. So then who is. Is this really also who's doing the killings? Because like this is somebody who is definitely very well educated. Or he's going to have something to make the. Pull it together. Like whip it together for a very well educated. Letter. Right. And so maybe this is I think there were some killings that were close to Tulane. Like this could maybe. There were. Yeah. Yeah. There has like a maybe there's a university piece to it. Maybe it was a student, a professor. No, no. You know, now I'm just trying to. Yeah. I'm trying to do the detect. Get all care. Yes. We have to solve this. But it is like specifically. Snobby. You know. And like very sort of like very elite. High. In its language. Which is also. I. You know, it's like that kind of changes the character of it. Not to mention. I mean, how do we even begin the jazz piece, right? The jazz piece is so bananas. It comes out. It comes out of nowhere. No, there's not a single indication that we would find ourselves in a jazz moment. I wonder if he likes jazz. Like it was just like, no, let me tell you. There's not. There's no records left. No. There's no music playing. There's no other illusion to jazz happening. And then suddenly he's like. I love jazz. He gets to know me. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Well, that about me. Like, do you guys think you know me? You know, I love jazz. Yeah. Yeah. It is interesting. I think that the. Okay. So a few things that come to mind here. Okay. So first of all, like the astrology of this letter. So the sun at 22 degrees of Pisces. So 22 again. Pisces being the. You know, the siren song. There's a direct correlation between music and Pisces. And Pisces is the arts. Yes. Oh, shit. Like Pisces. That's interesting music. Yeah. Pisces. Energy is all about. It's like the most associated with like specifically music. Any other zodiac sign. And it's a lot of this has to do with like the mythology of it. And like the the mermaids singing the sailors into their. The mind. Yes, hell yeah. Put the boys on the ships. Let's go. We still have a Pluto Jupiter conjunction here. Right. So that's loud going on haunting bigger, bigger death. More and more and more. But then the moon and Saturn. Saturn also at 22. Of course. The moon and Saturn are conjunct in Leo. So we have those theatrics yet again. The drama. The razzle dazzle. Yeah. And I want to tell you something about myself. Yes. And let me tell you is the main character. Main character. It's even weirder. It is weird. But he's like, make it about me. Yes. Yes. I love. So you. You may recall that my favorite thing of all time. And the thing was the Jack the Ripper letter. Yes. I could not get enough of it. I was like, this is. It's insane. I can't believe it's real. I can't believe it happened. No matter who it was from. So I obviously had to pull the chart for that. And my jaw dropped. Stop it. Stop it. I'm so excited. I love the show. So that was October 15th, 1888, when the sun was at 22. Libra. And Libra, much like Leo, has a look at me, look at me, energy. Yeah. Main character energy. Yeah. The moon was in Pisces for the Jack the Ripper letter. So we have a similar Pisces drop here. And at the time that I have for this chart for Jack the Ripper, 22 degrees satch. Stop. What are the odds of that? Yes. Like it's everywhere. It's the 22 is very weird. I mean, it's a wake up in the middle of the night screaming 22. 22. So we have this sort of correlation of, oh, Saturn was also in Leo. So Saturn was in Leo in both of these letters. And that's only happens every 36 years. So we have this, basically, the Jack the Ripper letter was having its Saturn return. Yeah. Oh my God. What? That is insane. Crazy. That is insane. Yeah. 30 year cycle. Yes. That is so fucking significant. You're a genius. Yeah. You're an absolute astrologer. It's genius. It's bananas, right? Yeah. If you don't think astrology is real. Get the fuck out of here. Come on. Come on. Damn. That's wild to me. So it was, it was this 30, 1888 to 1919, 31. Wow. Interesting. Interesting, interesting. Yeah. And the completion of a cycle. Completion of a cycle. And this sort of like this continuation. It was just going to be on back again. Yeah. Back again. So if you wanted to make an argument that this is actually supernatural, I think you could. Yeah. I mean, absolutely say this really is the same entity. Can you imagine? I mean, one is dated. One is from hell, right? Yeah. Jack the Ripper and the other references. Yeah. Well, I got the chills. Yeah. I mean, it dates the article or the letter by the way, hell, March 13, 1919. So what he is essentially saying from hell. Like this is coming from. He just doesn't write from hell, but he writes. But it's there. Hell. Yeah. Like the place where he's writing this from. That is so fucking wild to me. Yeah. It's so bonkers. That's really. Yes. So like you could, you could say like if you paranormal that. Yeah. You could make an argument. You know, this is. This is the. This is sort of like a different manifestation of that same demonic table. Energy. Well, maybe the supernatural force that is truly just the planets. Yeah. And they're effect on us. Totally. Yeah. Saturn himself. Yeah. Or you could say that this is like the sort of, you know, the cycle of time that every 30 years we have this sort of like somebody who gets possessed by the energy. Yeah. And or you could say that this is somebody who was losing their minds, found a signature, killed a baby and was like, I'm the new Jack the Ripper. Yeah. Absolutely. Like who else is as evil as me? Yeah. And I was researching. I was like, is. Would this person have known of Jack the Ripper at this time? 100%. Yeah. Yeah. So very much over here on the letter, they would have known the letter, especially if this is somebody who is plugged in and has like the resources to be able to like have the worldliness to know what's going on, which they sound exactly. A little worldly. They do. Cause what is Jack the Ripper, like late 18, 18, 18, 18, 18, 18. Yeah. So. Yeah. They would know. So yeah. This is the, this is the Saturn return. The correlation. There's crazy. Yeah. So, I mean, and like just to like the 22 of it, the, the, the correlation of like the Pisces, energy, the energy, the Leo, the fact that we have Saturn, not just having a Saturn return, but also like the Saturn and Leo, like the dramatic of it. Yeah. You know, I've like the, and here, the flare. Yes. Yeah. Just like having wanting to have like a little fun with this torture. Yeah. So obviously everyone jazzes it out. Of course. No, it dies. And we then don't have another attack until. So while August 10th again, which is a, the date of another attack. Yeah. It's all August and marches. Yeah. Yeah. It's like August and so beware. The eyes of August. I guess. Beware. But which is so interesting because it also points to this sort of like what's going on in these things. That's like cyclical. Yeah. The cyclical times. Right. So this, uh, this is Steve Boca, August 10th, 1919, who comes stumbling out of his home with a, an axe wound in his head. Jesus. And stumbles. We do a friends who are the friends at first like, I can fix him and then it's like, I can't. I'm on. What a confident friend. Yeah. We know no one wants a friend like that. Yeah. Yeah. So at this point, we see so Saturn is at the anoretic degree. It's a 29 degrees. It's making a direct opposition from where it was when this whole like process began. So we're like really sort of in this, the finality of the story. And like we're kind of like, yeah, we're like sort of approaching the end. Yeah. But this is a surviving victim. Right. This is another victim that survives. Then we have on September 3rd. So, uh, three weeks later, another attack on Sarah Laumann when she was sleeping. This is a, this is a woman who was sleeping just a 19 year old living alone locked the doors. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So, this is not the typical. Call it again. Yeah. He's coming back full circle, right? Yeah. Which is very frenetic. It's like, yeah. I've already gone too far. I've killed a baby. Ever it in the letter. I haven't got attention. So maybe I can just go back to my own ways. Totally. It's also we should note that the night before someone did shoot at him. Someone shot at an intruder, but didn't get them. He didn't get the suspect and then the suspect had left all of their shit behind. So he left his chisel behind. So maybe he didn't have a chisel. Oh, maybe. Yeah. Maybe that was it. He didn't have enough time to get another. Another chisel. Yeah. So he was like, well, I got to do this. Smart. You would think that they would start to look at the chisel records. Yeah. Like who is buying chisels? But I, I feel like they were so common back then for. Yeah. Different kinds of work, you know. Everybody has a chisel. I guess so. I guess, you know, don't go anywhere without your chisel. Not now. I wouldn't. Yeah. Well, this is Mars, very heavily involved here. Mars is with Jupiter and Neptune now. We're moving into a Jupiter and Neptune in Leo movement movement. So like the planets are shifting as we get into this different dimension of this time. Right. And it does seem to me as we get into these very final attacks, like he's slowing down. Like something is changing in the way that he's approaching them. Which leads us to the final attack, which is so important. It's such a full circle. Yes. It's crazy. I have goosebumps knowing where this goes. It's very strange. Mike Pepitone. So Mike Pepitone is killed in bed. He is the husband and father of six children. And his wife and children were in the room next to him. And the wife comes in. See his, his, her husband being brutally attacked. See his blood spilling and pouring everywhere. It is like the most horrific scene imaginable. He'd been hit 18 times. Evidently gets a good look at who's doing it. And I don't know why I don't know how this keeps happening. I don't really know how he ends up exiting. I don't know what ends up happening with like her looking, her seeing her husband. I don't know if he just like jumps out the window. Right. But this is the last murder. And what's interesting is that in 1910, which is the year that all of this started, Mike Pepitone's father, Peter, killed a man, killed a man. Last name, De Cristina, and Mike Pepitone then moved his grocery business into, into De Cristina's place of business. So his father kills this guy, moves his son in. And it's like, this is a great spot in town. You're definitely going to want it. 1910 is the first murder, the first attack that we have from the Axeman. So we literally go full circle. Mike Pepitone, who is just, you know, who is this random person? Oh, that's really so it loops around, which is then if you want to continue, you know, think about there being some like more organized crime theories or the black hand theory. Like it does seem to allude to that. That we would find ourselves sort of back in the storyline. All of these people were casualties just to get to Mike. But then things get even crazier. because his widow, Esther, ends up moving to Los Angeles. She's like, I can't stay in New Orleans. This was, I saw something so brutal, so horrible. - This is just like a year and a half later. - Yeah, so January, 1921, she's like, I'm going to another LA. I'm going to Los Angeles, California, leaves Louisiana and Mary's someone named Angelo Albano. And Angelo Albano happens to be the former business partner of one, Joseph Mumfrey. So some time in to this new relationship, her new husband goes missing. He's gone and she's like, what the fuck? How does this keep happening? - Yeah. - And the horrible taste in men or something. And on this night, December 5th, 1921, Joseph Mumfrey comes into her home with a gun and demands money, silence, all of these things. It's an extortion and says, or I'm going to kill you just like I did your husband. And she looks at him and it's the man she saw in New Orleans. - Just a year. - Bashing her first husband's face in and she takes her revolver and kills him. So she kills the suspect. - She kills the ax men. - And he is the will suspect of the entire story. - Yeah, yeah, absolutely. - And that. - And it stops. - And then he stops forever after having continued for a decade. - A whole decade. - How? - Like insane is that. And the fact that it lines up with the completion of the cycle of the, what was it? Saturn, Neptune, conjunction. - Yes. - That's so weird. - That's crazy. - That's so strange. - Yes, we sort of like we found ourselves moving from one sort of like the intensity of that Jupiter, Pluto, like peak, where like, you know, whoever is doing this is like, "Ha ha, y'all never catch me." I'm losing my mind. Not to mention that this last one, October 27th, 1919, if it is indeed Frank Doc Murphy, also known as Joseph Mumfrey, also known as Leon Mumfrey. Like he is all of these different aliases. - Yeah, he is a Scorpio. And this last one was Scorpio, the sun was in Scorpio. This suspect Frank Doc Mumfrey has a Sagittarius moon. His last murder was when the moon was in Sagittarius and then he was killed in Sagittarius season. He was killed when the sun would have been on his moon. So like, it does look like it is this person. And the crazy thing is is that I kind of think that it's all of it. Like I think that it was, there was organized crime. I think that there was the black hand extortion thing that was going on. And I also think that he was insane. - And took it too far. - And took it too far and then became obsessed with Jack the Ripper and became obsessed with finding his own like signature scent for this. - A taste for blood. - Yes, a taste for blood. And I think that at different crescendos of it, like killing the baby, he's like I am crazy. - There's no turning back. I have the new, and then I, if Jack the Ripper was having a Saturn return. So he could have also been possessed by the same fucking demon that was possessing Jack the Ripper. - It's all so fascinating. That's crazy. - Astrology is real. - Holy shit. - Astrology is so real. - This was fucking fascinating. - Crazy. - I think it just makes so much sense. As I think, I mean, he's literally the only suspect and the strongest suspect in an all end. - And for a doll in that way. - Yeah. - And there's too many things that line up. - But we've cracked the case here today. - So I'm just going to share if this is indeed who did it, who done it. I'm going to share just a bit about his chart. So he would have been in his early 30s, when it started right after his Saturn return, and he would have died in his early 40s. - Okay. - That would have been sort of like, it would have been happening in his 30s and to his 40s, which I think makes sense with like, you know, the physical stature that we understand this person to be strong, obviously like able to wiggle an axe around. - Right. - He was born with Saturn Uranus opposition in his chart. Saturn at 19, Uranus at 19. This only happens every 45 years. So this was something like he died under that same sky. You know, like he died under those same conditions. Remember, Uranus is shocking things, unexpected things, and Saturn is a grim reaper of sorts, but it's also like consequences and responsibility. - And you didn't learn your lessons. - You didn't learn your lessons. And I think that there is a signature that we can see in this of sort of like, things getting out of hand, and then also feeling like you are God. You know, this feeling of being invincible, that you get to decide. And I love, you know, if this lore is all true, him being killed by the widow. - Oh, it's poetic. - Poetic justice. - Yeah, really. Like it comes back around in this like full swing. - Yes, yeah. - Also, I mean, if you're like, what are the odds of that having happened, there was a very tight knit community of Italian merchants, Italian grocer is Italian immigrants. And I think that like, you know, we can imagine that this was happening to a community that didn't have resources. Like, no, these people, a lot of them had money. They were doing very, very well. So the extortion wasn't just like, you know, you have this like small mom and pop. Like, no, these were like people who were actually, like this business, like, oh my gosh. So this continued to Los Angeles. - Right. - You know, this community and these networks. So it's not just like she ends up in Los Angeles and it's like, how is she connected again? It's like, no, this was a tight knit. - Yeah. - It was an isolated. - Spread across the United States. Where people knew each other. And these people were also like, had the financial mobility to be in these different places as well. - Yeah. - So, you know, the fact that we have this sort of like, cross state story. And then I just love like, sort of poetically, us dropping off in Los Angeles. And like, you wanted Razzle Dazzle. You wanted Leo. - There it is. - You wanted the drama, honey. Welcome to Hollywood, baby. - Yeah. - Like, there it is. - Killed in Hollywood. - By the way though. - Yes. - And then we, it's so dramatic. - Like, sort of like ushers us into the golden age of Hollywood. - Yeah. - Like, we could literally start this story up again in like, the Hollywood film noir of it all. - Yeah. Absolutely. - It's so crazy. - Yeah. - So interesting. - Like, why does that work so well? - It works so well. - Well, planets. - So, she was a son in Scorpio with conjunct Jupiter. So, son, Jupiter, Scorpio, Mercury and Scorpio, Venus and Scorpio, big Scorpio, stelling him really into the psychology, the depth, the darkness of it all, Jupiter expanding that. He had Pluto at 22 degrees, 22 degrees of torus, which means it was opposite all of those Jupiter and Sun connections that he had. So, there was this like very dark and brooding sort of energy here. And he actually did have a fixed grand cross in his chart as well between Saturn, Uranus, Pluto, Jupiter, the Sun. So, there was, it makes sense that there kept being these big, important Leo things happening in the sky when he as a fixed grand cross person would have been activated by those. - Yes. - Because all of the same modality get activated by each other. So, all cardinal signs, Aries, Cancer, Libra and Capricorn get activated by each other. All fixed torus, Leo, Scorpio and Aquarius get activated by each other and then all mutable. Gemini, Virgo, Saj and Pisces get activated by each other. So, the fact that like anything fixed happening, anything in Leo happening going on, it's like boom, I'm in. - It's just going to be. - Yeah, I'm in because that signature is in his birth chart. - It's calling to him, it calls to him. - That's really interesting. - Yeah, it also just makes sense too that he would have been so fascinated by Jack the Ripper with all the dark energy in his chart and like the death and the like the spooky, like it's interesting. - Yeah, and like what else, what's your, what's your comp? You know, like what's your reference plane? It's like you killed a baby, now fucking what dude? Look how far it's gone, yeah. And who else would you be other than this? But it still doesn't fully explain the jazz it out. - No, it really doesn't. Other than the Pisces bit. - The Pisces bit, yeah. - I was gonna say that feeling in New Orleans, you know. - You're in New Orleans. - Yeah, that's the culture, like. - But do you think that he wanted to stop? - I think he thought it was scary. - You think that it was just like another spooky thing? - Because it feels like he's like, I'm gonna, 'cause it'll create noise. - And then not only that, it's a control thing. - I can get you to do it. - I can make you all put on this jazz music. And then if I feel like I want to still come in your house, there's a lot of noise and I'll be able to. - Exactly. - But if I don't feel like it, then you'll think that I was telling the truth. So it's like he wins either way. - Right. - Yes, you know? - I think the biggest part of it was the control. Like, let's see if people, let's really just like, see how much I have thought what I can do. - Yes. - Do you think that it was him who wrote the letter? - I kind of do. 'Cause I find it interesting that there was no crime that night. - Yeah. - You know, and that it took a little bit for him to, to start back up again. I could go either way. - I wonder if he could have had some sort of like a, a recurring illness that he would be affected by. I wonder if he knew that like he wasn't gonna be able, he didn't have the strength. - Yeah. - He should do something. I'd love to walk. around in him music. Yeah, I think he's like a mountain and I won't do anything. Yeah, because I won't be able to all be out anyway. Yeah. And I'm taking back the control of like, I can't do this tonight, but it's only because I decided. Yeah. It wasn't decided for me. I think that could be it. But it also is very demonic to have all of those like, you know, to be that highfalutin in a letter. Yeah. Yeah. That's it's giving devil. It is absolutely. It absolutely is. Yeah. It's a fascinating case. I do think it was frank. I think it was for sure. I think it had to be. Yeah. Too much overlap. Yeah, too much overlap between the brochures. Between these too much starting aspects. Yeah, he really is. And I just love the poeticness of the poetic justice is insane saving the day. Yeah. It's too beautiful. It is. What are we going to do next October? I know. Oh my gosh. I skies the limit. It's true. No pun intended. I know. Welcome to my letter. I wonder if for listeners now, this would be the third star is over. Yeah. Story. I wonder what they're itching. What do they refer? Yeah. What do you guys want next? This is so fun and interesting. I love doing it. We have to have you back in October. I'll be here. Whether or not. Yeah. It's true. I know. 22 degrees. All right. Well, you guys let us know in the comments. We'll chat amongst ourselves and we'll figure this out. Yeah. All right. And now we're going to go do fun spooky stuff together. Yeah. Obviously. So we hope you keep listening. And we hope you keep it weird. But not so weird that you don't tune back in next October. Check out Aliza on tour. A few dates left, right? Yes. Depending on when this comes out. Thursday. Oh. Yes, I do. Tell us, tell us. I will be in Los Angeles on October 27th. San Francisco, October 28th. And then Beverly, right next to Salah on October 30th. Love it. Yes. So excited. All right. Perfect. Well, go check out those dates. And you too. We love you. We love you. We love you. We love you. [Music] [Music]