162: "sports car" vs. "Fame is a Gun" (w/Andrew Unterberger!)

I am Todd Nathanson and I'm Lena Morgan and this is song versus song. We are back from winter break. We are ready to start the year or at least we are starting the year. I don't know if we're ready to start the year, but we are back. It is song versus song and we are going to start off 2026 with 2025. We are doing Tate McCrae's sports car versus Addison Rae's fame is a gun. I think we kind of had to do it because we didn't do it 2025 episode at the end of the year, like we did, like we usually do. Well, we didn't away except we didn't because you were like, we're going to do it. And then it was like two songs from 2024. That were one of the two of the biggest songs of 2025, but we are doing 2025 this year. We're going to do it right. We're doing it for our Gen Z audience. I assume I have no idea who listens to us. Yes, it's them and the people who are my age who I assume, so this matchup and we're confused and thought that Tate McCrae and Addison Rae were the same person. We did get a few comments and we're doing and we're doing that for a specific reason. We have a guest in the building. Once again, Andrew Warnerberger, close friend, close friend of the pod, close friend in real life. Yeah, thank you all for having me again. I feel like I'm always the one after the break. So I don't know why I get to be like, I don't have to call it a season premiere or a mid-season premiere or what. So yeah, this is a thing that I did not realize until the other day. And you and I talked about this fact that you were our first guest last year too. Well, time y'all actually invited me on this time. I kind of invited myself. I appreciate you being willing to do it either time. Yes. You held the gun to our head and it said fame. Yep. That's right. Well, you are our favorite guest. And whenever we feel rusty coming out of the break, we know who we can rely on to help us through the podcast. And you were here because you have a podcast. Yes, I have a podcast called The Greatest Pop Stars podcast, which was formed around a series that we do at Billboard basically every year, we've done it every year since 2021. Where we count down at the end of the year, we count down the greatest pop stars of the year that was. And then in 2024, we also did a version of that for the entire 21st century, which got a lot of attention. And you know, we have essays that run with each, we unveil the series one at a time and we have essays that run with each artist, but I wanted to do a little bit more of a discussion thing about it. And so I started a podcast to go along with it and that just turned into a weekly podcast that I do, even when we're not doing one of these series where I do a bunch of different discussions every week about either the past, present, or future of pop started, I'm kind of analyzing the art of it and talking about some of the most interesting artists, both looking at them at their peak years in the past with certain series that both of y'all have been on. And then also kind of keeping up with the yearly race every month, we'll do a check-in and be like, okay, who were the greatest pop stars the last month and how does that impact the discussion for the entirety of 2025? And now we're up to actually doing the greatest pop stars of 2025. We waited till January this time to do it. And that's a series that's starting this week actually with, we're going to do our honorable mentions that's sort of 20 through 11. And then the week after that, we're going to start kind of down one a day and there'll be articles and there'll be podcasts. And it's a series that I'm really proud of in a series that I put a lot of work into and that I also just put a lot of thought and energy into because I really care about this shit. And I appreciate you guys giving me the opportunity to come on and introduce this to some of your own listeners who may be not as familiar. Well, we've both been on it. I've been on it a couple times. I was there to talk about Kelly Clarkson's 2005 and Will Smith's 1998 two pop star years very dear to my heart. I'm not sure anyone is going to say that 2025 was their peak year. You got a hard road a hoe, I feel like this here. And so when we were like, okay, we can cross promote like we're I'm going to be on your show to talk about something during the series and you're on our show or like what 2025 songs are there to come up with. And we come up with a few. This is what we sort of settled on. This was your initial pitch to me. So why these two, I mean, these are just lack of options because I would not say either these are like humongous big songs, like if you are into the pop sphere, like you probably know of them or you've heard them, but like they're not going to go out, down in history as like the, I don't know, like espresso was last year, at least that's my opinion. No, you're absolutely right. And that definitely did play a part in us kind of getting into a finer matchup with these two songs. And when I pitched this one to you, you pitched back Luther versus die with a smile. And that's a much more logical choice really, because I mean, that hits both of those artists. So both of those songs have two artists each that are going to be involved in this series between Bruno Mars and Lady Gaga and Susan Kendrick Lamar. And those are also literally the two biggest songs of 2025, at least by our billboard year and how 100 standards. So that would have been the much more logical choice for a 2025 podcast, but a, those songs are kind of boring. And I think we all agreed about that. Yes. Those artists have also been in our lives forever. I think each one of them has been a star of some sort for at least a decade by this point. Susan is the newest, but even she feels pretty, pretty established at this point. Yeah. 10 years or 10 years or so. And beyond that, they're also both 2024 songs. So I didn't want to make you all talk about another pair of 2024 songs that maybe aren't the most exciting 2024 songs, at least for me, for mid tempo ballads, yeah, or actually mid tempo is probably overselling it for Luther and die with a smile, but two ballads anyway. Yeah. So that's, um, it does feel like tape McCray versus Addison Ray is the, is the more exciting matchup, even if these weren't like the biggest songs of all time. Yeah. And these artists have also both been around for a little while, at least as celebrities, they've been around for a little while, but they are both in their early, mid 20s still. And more importantly, I think they, they both had big 2025s where they're still actively building their pop start-up and their legacies, whereas the other four are just kind of maintaining their legacies. So I think it's more interesting to talk about them for that reason. And you're right, that they're neither these songs are huge hits. And if you're not the sort of person that actively cares and pursues pop music, you might not even know these songs, like they were not that impactful on the real world in that sense. But if you are those sort of people, these might have been two of the most impactful songs of the year, that probably sounds like you do have opinions about. And if you are a, if you are a like a person who cares about pop music rather than just someone who kind of passively listens to the radio, if you care about it, like as a genre and what's, you know, coming up, these were two pretty important songs that they ended up on a bunch of, you know, year end lists. And if you don't have opinions about the songs, you do have opinions about the artists at the very least. And they make for a really, really interesting, comparing contrast, I think. Because they do sort of the same things, both as songs and as artists, but they take very, very different routes to get there. Like the way I would sort of classify these two songs and at the risk of both sounding reductive and stepping on one of our later categories is that they're both hot girl pop, I think we could call it. Like it's music for and by hot girls, like it's big and banging pop music, largely uninterested in like being relatable or diaristic or like even overly singer songwriter, it's, it's, it's, it's music that's about being young and fabulous and beautiful, like it feels like it's by that type of artist and they are those types of artists. So it feels authentic, but it doesn't feel like it's not trying to be relatable. It's trying to be aspirational. You don't listen to these songs and think, oh, they're just like me. They listen to them and think, oh, I wanted to be just like that. Yeah, like you would not necessarily do it. Like you would not hear Taylor Swift make this. You probably wouldn't even hear an Ariana Grande write this. You maybe, maybe Mike here a Gaga in this somewhere. But like our main pop girls of, you know, the 2010s and so on have both basically just moved away from this kind of look at me. I'm hot and sexy type of pop song. So like, even Tate McRae, she started out in a far different place than this one. She was like getting into pop music. She was kind of following the trends of the other pop stars of the time, which were, you know, Billie Eilish and, you know, Halsey, not, uh, not this what she ended up as the one that, the version of herself that launched her to start them. And this is the most interesting thing about this match up to me is that, you know, I, I mentioned that these, these are both been around for a little bit at this point. They, they sort of took different routes to get to where they are now, but if I told you in 2021 that these two people were both going to be very big pop stars in 2025, and I said that one of them was going to do it with extremely like eye catching music videos and very elaborate choreography and these really big banging in your face pop songs. And then one of them was going to be like a little bit more reserved about it and maybe a little bit more down tempo, occasionally a little bit more sad about it was going to have like more of a cult fan base than like a dead center top 40 fan base. You would have guessed that Addison Ray would be the former and Tate McCray would be latter because in 2021, like you said, that's who Tate McCray was sort of, she was doing this more sort of down tempo, sad girl pop, what you and I have called at the time lower case pop because it's like a version of pop that's a little bit more reserved and a little bit less splashy and also very literally has song titles written in a little lower case a lot of the time as with spaces between them with spaces between the letters indeed. And instead like they ended up switching places where you know Addison Ray when we first met her, she was the dancing tic-toc girl, yeah that was all we really knew about her. And so I think we all would have guessed that that's the kind of music that she would eventually end up making is like very choreography forward big pop music. And if you listen to her first song or song from 2021 and song called Obsessed, it does kind of sound like that. It sounds like it could have been a Tate McCray song. But instead she ends up doing the more reserved thing, the more down tempo thing, the more culty thing, and Tate McCray ends up being mistop 40. And I think they're both better off for it like they've both taken time to get to where they are and you can kind of hear it along the way like the little incremental evolutions in each release. But now they're at this point where they are two of the most important people in pop music. And you know Tate's a very massive pop star in a very conventional sense. Addison is like the ultimate cool girl in 2025 pop music like she has huge critical acclaim and she has like even kind of like underground cred, which is sort of preposterous for somebody who was famous before we ever heard a note of her music, but I mean she got there. They were, they were both famous before we heard a note of their music. Well one that was famous in Canada, that's a very different kind of famous part as I'm concerned. But yes, it's true. No, no, no, she was a, she was a reality star. She was a, yeah, she was on like dance moms or something like that. She was the, the dance girl on dance moms. And that was like her, uh, that was her foothold into showbiz. And that's how she started getting a following where she could like share her perspective songs on, you know, her various socials. Uh, you know, I got really into Tate McRae in 2021, uh, just like finding out who she was because like that song, her one song was so bad or in so like boringly bad. I was like, why am I hearing this song? And I was like, what, where is this coming from? This is you broke first? Yeah, you broke me first and it broke her first. So that was like, did you do that? Yeah. So that was like what was like, uh, I guess she's a dancer. I guess she's famous already that she's like, is that why I know her? And it's been really interesting to see her evolve, I guess. But let me ask, uh, you know, the question we always forget to ask, it's song versus song. You got to pick one, which of these is the song you prefer? Uh, you know what, start with Lena, Lena's been kind of sitting this one out. I kind of feel like you are, you, you're not feeling either of these. But let me see what you, where you come down on it. I mean, so the, the first thing I would say is that I think that, um, it's you were talking about how Addison raised kind of found a little bit more of like the, like, she's a little bit more, yeah, she's an, uh, a little bit more of a critical darling. Um, I think it makes sense. Uh, I do think that, uh, these two artists have kind of stepped into the, into the light in a way that they had in any other previous year. So even though 2025 is kind of a dud overall, I think that it has still ultimately done something significant enough for them that it makes sense that like we would do this episode before we do the, the Bruno versus, but like, I think it's so first of all, like you brought up that, that first single that Addison really put out. I think an important thing to sort of note about that is that it was extremely unpopular. Yes. That is definitely both true and worth noting about obsessed by Addison Ray. Yeah. Addison Ray really like took a huge L. And then somewhere between then and now she became friends with somebody. And that somebody is Charlie X, X. And that's a pretty big fucking deal, right? Like she did, um, the, the feature on the, the sort of like, on the brand, yeah, work it on the remix version of Untouch and like, you know, she was kind of in the background starting to rethink what she would be like as a, as a performer on this, because you know, her goal was to be a multi-hyphenate. And the other thing that happened is that she sort of found two other people who are like kind of like her main collaborators, both as songwriters and also as producers. And so by the time you get this album, Addison, um, she sort of, I think abandoned the idea of making music that was like what people, like whatever it was that the people had currently been around her or telling her to make or like what they felt like what she should sound like. And just was like, well, this is, this seems to be working. So we're going to go with it. Right. I feel comfortable here. This is where I'm going. The result, I think of that record is that it's really confident. I think it's actually probably one of the most confident pop records of 2025. Very similar. Yeah. Yeah. Like it just like you listen to it and it's like there is a very clear point of view. Um, I think there is a certain indie level of it. There's, there's a track on there. It's the one that's right after fame is a gun. Why am I blanking on the name of it? Um, I was like, these I think that's the one. That's the one. Um, which sounds like it sounds like I hail to the thief track. Like that's like the way that it opens. I was like, this is so weird. Like, like, why does this sound like? Oh, we're totally right. It absolutely sounds like a kid a era. No, it's a little post. It's like, it's like that weird, okay, cute, but okay, computer. Okay, cute. But there you go. Excuse me. Excuse me. Okay, computer. Okay, computer part two, like that era, like right before we got to in rainbows. Anyway. Um, I think that in listening to that album, like you can just feel like she really has a sense of what her own vibe is, you know, whether or not that album had been successful, I think that she would have stuck by it. I think she would still felt good about that album. Um, and I think that that kind of, like, really informs fame as a gun, which really feels like the centerpiece of the whole album. It's a really solid song. Um, between the song itself, subject matter of the song, like the exploration of fame, both as a positive and a negative in the music video. Like, there's something very queer-coded about it. Like, it's like, there's just a million reasons why I think that that's a really good song. I'm going with sports car. Yeah. The song coming. Yeah, there's no way. There's, yeah. There's no way that was going to end any other way. So what is, uh, I was expertly done, Lena. Yeah, for doing that. What, what, what made, what made you pick sports car? Well, we'll get into it. Okay. You got to wait. You got to wait. Okay. Okay. We're, I figured if you had that much build up about Addison, you're going to have, but we'll, we'll wait for it. Uh, boots. Andrew. So the reason I was so excited to hear Lena go with sports car is that I tried to talk myself into sports car being my answer here because I, I am, like, I am sort of a coming, a Tima Cray defender. I feel like at least compared to the people that I talk about pop music with most, uh, and I really appreciate like what she's doing for pop and what she's doing for pop start in particular. And I do think that sports car is like on the right track. So, and I think she's actually gotten further to where she needs to be even in the like eight months since that song's come out, but that song itself doesn't quite get there for me. And in the meantime, like, even just over the course of doing the research for this podcast, I started to really, really, really like famous a gun more and more. So I do got to go with that one, unfortunately, but I didn't want all three of us to be pro famous a gun. And I do have a feeling that Todd is not going to be with Lena on the sports car lane or whatever. Yeah. Well, I mean, I'll, I don't know if I would necessarily describe myself as pro famous a gun as much as I am wildly anti sports car one of the worst of the year. Awful, awful, just a terrible song from beginning to fucking end. Uh, like I said, I have been following Tate McRae. And I've seen her evolve. Um, I think this was obviously her path to the, uh, to the big time. I see why she, um, is the, the hottest she's ever been because of, you know, I'm the hot dancing girl who does the hot girl dancing pop songs. I just don't think her heart's in it. Oh, I do not, I do not. Um, well, sorry, let me, let me, let me ask you to clarify that. Are you saying her heart is not in music or pop startup in general or that her heart is just not specifically in the songs that she sings? I've been, like I said, I've been following her since she was writing them, uh, one of the songs she wrote in 2019 or 2020 was called feels like shit. I feel like shit. And one of the big like stepping stone songs of her was she's always that she's all I want to be. And yes. And that was basically about being the, uh, the, the beta to Olivia Rodrigo's alpha. And I thought that was like, that's the, that, that feels like the authentic her, maybe not the most successful her, maybe not the deserve it. Maybe the person she is now is the one who deserves the success, but I just do, do not feel like that's what she wants to be doing. She's just good at it. Or at least she's good at dancing. But like, when I see Britney Spears, I see, you know, the pussy cat dolls are all the, you know, the, the classic 2000s types, like, nothing below the surface, hot girl stuff. I, I see someone, I see people who embody that completely. And I just, I just, I just don't feel it from Tamikray. I don't feel like this is a girl who is saying about sports cars. I don't see, I feel like if anything, I would say it's the exact opposite. Like I, I even remember, I think we had a cover story with her around the time that greedy was starting to pop. And you know, that was her first real big hit as like Tamikray 2.0. And she said that she was feeling that song like more than any of her other songs. And she's like, yeah, I'm so glad I finally get to do the kind of music that I want to make something along those lines. And at first, I thought that was ridiculous because greedy is not like a super personal song at all. Not even compared to something like she's all I want to be, or you broke me first. But it feels more right for songs like that to be coming out of the artist that Tamikray is. Then these quote, unquote more relatable songs. I don't think it doesn't feel, it feels right. Maybe it doesn't feel right. It's just she's better at it. She is better at it. Yes, at this. But like, I'm not sure she necessarily feels greedy as much as she understands that's a better song than the one she's been making. I feel like she's gotten more under there that she could be giving that, you know, this is what pays, this is what pays the mills. Well, I commend her for not giving us that in that case. Like, yeah, we're sort of in a trap in 2025 where we sort of feel like all artists have to show us who they really are inside. And they have to put that in their pop songs and that pop songs are sort of automatically vacant or bankrupt if they don't do that. And like, I've had so many conversations with people about Tamikray were they say, I don't get it. Like, the three of us were hanging out doing something on Saturday with a bunch of other people. And one of our friends said that what we were talking about Tamikray is she was like, yeah, I just don't get it. And like, I sort of understand that because I was in that place too early on in her career. By now, I feel like I get it. But I think that the the real thing people are saying when they're saying that they don't get Tamikray is that they're asking, where's the extra with her? Like, she's not a plus singer or a plus singer songwriter. She's not a particularly interesting person in her personal life as far as we can tell we also just don't know her very well unless I guess we've been watching her YouTube series or anything. But like, her personality doesn't pop off the screen or pop off the page when you read stuff from her or anything like that. And she's also like not, she's not conceptual like someone like do a leap. But you could say a lot of the same things about, but do a leap of kind of took that leap five years ago to that leap of five years ago because she was successful because she was a bad dancer and everybody made. I guess that helped too. But she had future nostalgia and that felt like an ear and it felt like she was putting more grand design behind all of it and that made people respect her more than if she was just a pop star coming out with singles one at a time. But like the question with Tamikray is what is it that makes her special? What is it that makes her like unique among this class? I don't know if there's anything that makes her necessarily singular around this class, but as you sort of pointed out, Todd, like we used to have pop stars like this all the time. We used to have like three or four pop stars at any given moment where there wasn't necessarily anything extra about them as artists, but they were just really good pop stars. They looked the part, they danced the part, they made videos for the part, they talked the part, like they just filled that lane of pop star and was used to be a very, very crowded lane. Now, it's obviously not that crowded anymore, but like there should be a place in pop star. I think in a healthy pop ecosystem, we should have a place for talented, good-looking people who can deliver a pop song like they mean it. And I guess if you're saying that you don't think that she does that, I see what the problem is. Let me say this. If this were greedy versus fame as a gun, I would still have all the same problems, but I'd probably pick greedy over fame as a gun. Interesting. I think sports cars also bad on its own. It's just like a bad song period. The old classic, you know, 2000s era pop star, you know, I'm hot on dance. That was never my thing to begin with. That was like never anything I could say I very much liked. And you know, all the Britney and pussycat dolls here, stuff like that, it has just never been my thing. So like, I'm already, okay, I don't like this kind of song. I don't like, I don't think she's, you know, particularly special as an artist, but I also think this song is worse than the other songs that you could compare it to. That is sort of the thing with Tate McRae and that like, I say all this stuff, I still have long wanted her songs to be better than they are, including this one that we're talking about now, although I do like certain parts of it. I might talk about it later, but at this point, I do want to hear from Lena who apparently has become a huge sports car defender. So I want to hear why the song speaks to you the way it does, Lena. Do you remember I'm a slave for you? I do. Yeah, I've heard of that one. I don't think I would classify that as like one of Britney Spears, like best in the canon, like in the sense of like people's favorite Britney song. It's like top two for me. Oh, what's up there for me too? Yeah. Like, I don't think it's a great song, but there's something about it that has always worked for me. It hits just the right way. And it's like, I remember hearing it the first time and feeling like I should hate it, but loving it anyway. And thinking like, there's just lots of things about this song that don't work and yet work for me personally. And I can't even wrap my brain around why. And sports car, it's exactly the same way. Like, by all accounts, like you can't get any further from me than tape McCray in doing sports car. Like that is like she is my equal opposite fucking number in that moment. But like, that's kind of the allure, right? Like I listen to that song and I feel like I'm like doing like some gem in the hologram shit and like, you know what I mean? Like I'm like, you're like, or I'm sailor mooning it and becoming the other person, right? And it's nice. Like I, I think I just appreciate the pure escapism of a zone like that. And yeah, the vibe is also similar. Like when I heard sports car the first time, I'm a slave for you was the first song that I thought of. Like it just immediately was like, that's what it's reminiscent of to me. And like I really like that, you know, and sometimes that's not how it plays out. Sometimes you hear a song, you'd be like, that sounds like this, but less good. But no, I was like, this actually, it's exactly the same way for me. It's nice. I think when we were hanging out over the weekend, I said that I wanted it to be like, I was like 2026. I wanted to be like a like a clubby kind of year for music, right? I was like, I want like really danceable music. Like I don't know that I want deep stuff. The world's deep. I'm already drowning. Like I kind of need the thing that's going to make me like. And so I think in that way, I'm like really kind of jenzing for what Tamecray is ostensibly starting to do. And what I suspect she will continue doing. I think it's interesting. Like what we've talked about a lot with Tamecray is like a lack of personality, right? Like who is she? Like that's kind of like the big thing is that I can't tell. So there I the thing I've had in my head is in the realm of pop start him. And forgive me because the thing I'm going to say is really going to age me. She's like the like the 2000 era Al Gore. Like there's something very lock box about Tamecray today. Like she should be winning elections, but she's not going to year name me. And like she's going to lose it in Florida to the hanging chat. Like she just like like I've seen her do interviews. I watched her episode with Lasca Treistas. And I was like, she has something to her. Like to me, her flaw is she's 22. And she's spent, you know, like the end of her teenage years in the pandemic, which fucked up a lot. I mean, I know like Addison Ray is not that much older, but I think that like even just a couple years and like in that direction means that like you got to figure out who the fuck you were. Before the pandemic locked people down, like if you are a teenager during that time, like if you're listening, no offense, but like y'all are weird. Y'all are some weird folks that like have, you know, like the trauma of that experience, like I think has impacted you in a profound way. And like at least they get the built in excuse when the rest of us just have to be weird out here on our own. Yeah. Well, I mean, like I'm speaking as like the perhaps the most feral individual I know, but like, I don't know, man, like I think that that is sort of like my big tip, take away with tape McCray is that like she feels like somebody that kind of like was homeschooled for a while and just closed down and is probably just starting to really figure herself out. And I don't know. It's very weird. Like there are things about sports card that I think are kind of fascinating in her career because like if you listen to that whole album, there's like first of all, like remember I said that like Addison Ray, like the Addison record, like feels very cohesive because it's like basically like three people for almost the entire album that are working on it, like producing it, writing it, everything. The tame McCray record by counterpoint is a pure Frankenstein affair. Like there are so many writers, so many producers on that record. And what's really interesting is that, you know, when you listen to Addison, where she is in the mix is pretty forward, right? When you listen to a lot of that tape McCray record, her vocals are like in the middle of the mix, right? Like they do not have her vocals like really like at the heart of those songs. Sports car by comparison, she is a little bit more forward in the mix. And I think that weirdly like as a result, it's kind of revealing of why she usually isn't is that she still hasn't figured out how to be that person that like has a voice and has, and like it's not even like I'm not saying she's a bad singer, although I've, you know, I've heard people say that she is not a good singer. I don't really, she's competent, you know, which is what's required. What she lacks is vocal personality. Well, I would say it's even more than, wait, wait, wait, who lacks vocal personality? Tate McCray. Okay. I think Addison Rae does have vocal personality. I agree with that. I would say that the problem with Tate McCray isn't so much that she lacks vocal personality, is that she just lacks vocal presence. Like I can identify a Tate McCray song by her vocals. What I can identify is the words that she's singing. At a certain point that matters, right? Like this song, like I love the first 10 seconds of this song. They're incredible. Like it's got that little kind of radio tuning intro sort of like like ski lows I wish or fastballs the way where it sounds like they're tuning into it's car. And then it just hits you with those drums and those synths of that kind of like a like piercing G funk synth line, which is so aggressive and so cool. And it just sounds like an absolute monster, but then her vocals come in and it just never really builds the way I want it to. And like the hook is good, but it's just not quite all the way there for me. Like it never really gets to that place. I want a song that big to get to. And I have one like very, very specific complaint with this song, which is I think the thing that keeps it like being a six seven instead of an eight nine in terms of my rating of it. This song, I think more than any other song of recent years is desperately calling out for a rap guest verse. And I completely agree. You mentioned Britney. You know, I think I was definitely reminded of I'm a safety. I was also reminded of a much less famous or popular song from Britney's and the zone album called I Got That Boom Boom, which is not like a great Britney song, but it does have the yin yang twins on it. And that was a long way where they're just kind of like hollering over the whole thing, like, show me. And like you kind of need that extra energy in a song like this. You need you could also use like a different vocal tone and a different vocal presence, but you just need a little bit more than what Tate has given you vocally on this song. And I think like the biggest cultural failing of this era of pop music is that I have no idea who that guest rapper should be because we just don't have guests like this anymore. Like the last one I can think of on a song like this was the baby on levitating. And maybe because that ended kind of sourly that just left the bad taste in everyone's mouth. No one wants to try it again. I don't know. That man loved doing guest verses. I think it was so good at them too. It's such a shame that it turned out the way it did, but we don't really have his replacement waiting in the wings. Like I don't know who the baby or two chains or ludicrous of today is or should be. It's not going to be playboy cardie certainly. It's not going to be a little tech up people like that. 21 Savage can maybe do that. That's why I was thinking 21 Savage you'll do occasionally and like, but like no one's going to really say like 21 Savage remember like all this classic guest versus like he's fine. Yeah. It's a major lacking in the current pop landscape. We got to get on that whoever's in charge of these things like we got to find the answers. Madison Ray has full million attract doesn't she? Not playing in it. Hey McCray does a different song on so close to what I blood on my hands. And she's good. I do think this song could use a specifically male energy. I actually do think that there are a number of female rappers who could have stepped into a spot like this. But for whatever reason the do's are two like low energy down tempo. No one really wants to kind of bring the fire the way a flow millie would. So we got to get a work. We got to like work on the farm system here like the generation. Yeah. Well, you know, it was it's never been okay to say mobile rap certainly not in 2026. But like that's the vibe of most of the people who are remaining. They're just very low key and mumbly. So like that there's not a luta of this generation. That's a shame. But like, no, I agree with that. But listen, I want to the one thing I wanted to say that we hadn't touched on was no, I think that you're right. As far as this is what you were saying, like not just the rappers, but this year talking about before without like the fact that the song doesn't quite build the way that it should. I blame the production on that because I think that like there were ideas there like very notably Julia Michaels like had wanted to do that bit where like Tate is doing like that whisper singing at the end. And it's just like, it's a good idea, but it just doesn't work, right? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I think the reason why just to button it up that I took sports car over famous a gun is because despite all of these failings that I can name, I still really like sports car. Like that's really the bottom line, right? Is that like I can name like a dozen things about it that are functionally like proof that it's not good. I still love it. And I think that anytime something like that happens, like I immediately will like put that pretty high up on the favorites for a year. All right. Well, you know, I'm sure you could name it, but I will name them. First off, this is her absolute worst performance as a singer, just the worst. She has never sounded worse. And she sounded pretty bad on a lot of songs, but her vocals are here. I do not believe that like this is a girl who wants to have sex with me. I just don't like not the way I would have believed, you know, Britney or the pussycat dolls, like I just do not see someone selling it. The lyrics are also incredibly bad, especially during the chorus. We can uh, in it like, there is something like I didn't even really notice it until listening to this album all the way through recently. She does keep things very distinctly PG. It's sort of a call back to the Britney year of pop stars that way too. Like there's none of that like Sabrina Carpenter like dropping the F bomb very casually in the chorus stuff. Like yeah, she definitely realizes that she has a young fan base. And she wants to continue to let like decater to them and to not have it be a risk that like their, you know, their parents won't let her, you know, won't let their kids come see her live or anything like that. Yeah. Um, to me, she sounds like she's playing a part not very well. That's how I hear on there. If you ask me, like one of her best songs is actually Revolving Door, because that's the part where I actually feel like she has like figured out a way to split the difference between the artist she started at. It's on the artist she is now. Uh, and I think she has more good, more songs I like than more songs I don't quite honestly, but this one I just do not feel at all. And like, but like part of it was like, you know, the stuff I say does sell it properly. Like I'm a slave for you. I don't like that song either. So like what is my opinion worth? I don't. I've never, I don't know, like maybe, you know, how like there's a song that hit you at the right age, even though it's like bad, but you were like, uh, you know, 10. So, you know, it'll always be a part of you. Like, well, there's also songs that hit you when you're at the wrong, wrong age and you'll never be a part of you. Like I can never hear it because, you know, I was a, you know, it's not a teenager. Well, you know, it's like, you know, Brittany Backstreet is all crap. Like there's a still a part of me there. So I'll never really feel I'm a slave for you. I've never made my piece within sync. I have, I've made my piece with the Backstreet Boys, never, ever felt it in sync song that I wanted to hear. Except for Mary. It feels like shit. Todd, I think if you let some more in sync and early Brittany into your lead, it feels less like shit. So true. Uh, very quickly. Um, I think it's a democratic does occasionally. Like she is PG, certainly on this track. And I think that some of the other, like songs that were intended to be singles, like, kind of operate that way. But that's not always true. Um, I actually was like going back and listen to the deluxe album where for whatever reason, all the deluxe stuff is at the beginning of the record. She I'm not really a customer. It's screaming shenanigans. It's billboard stuff. It happens. Yeah. But, um, so like that first track trying on shoes has like her being talking about like, I mean, like it is literally she's trying on shoes and being like bitter and like, but there's, you know, she calls herself a bitch. There's a line where she says, uh, got you like, fuck. And, and when I say that, you can tell that this was written by Amy Allen. Um, like, because like, as soon as it was wild, like I was listening to the song for the first time, because I'd never listened to the deluxe version of the record. And I was like, boy, this is like, what if Sabrina Carbender didn't know how to be like funny and winky? And I was like, I was like, did Amy Allen write this? And she did? Yeah. And then there is another one of those deluxe songs where she talks about her ex, uh, still jacking off to her. So I guess maybe it's the singles that she kind of tries to keep it radio friendly. Uh, yeah. That makes sense, I guess. I also do think that it's kind of like, this is a very interesting thing about, um, tape McCray, like, you know, it's I feel like you're the first person who's like going to start the the drinking game for whenever I bring up Sabrina Carbender in an episode, but like, because it's every episode, but like, it is, it is close to literally every episode. Yes. Um, this is the moment, right? Like if we're talking about tape McCray, like, she genuinely had like, like, Amy Allen has written quite a bit for her as as Julia Michaels. And they are kind of like, if you're writing down the names of the writers who have sort of like, help shape Sabrina Carbender's career in the last like three or four years, those are like the first two. Yeah. And to be fair, I mentioned Sabrina first this time. So, uh, uh, no drinking necessary, I don't think. Well, I do think that as it, as it happens, you know, I think it's kind of interesting to look at them as counterpoints just because as it happens, Amy Allen. And, and yeah, I mean, like, you've got these two writers and it's, I just, it's so weird. Like, by every metric, I should not like sports car. I should be like utterly like unimpressed with tape McCray, but like, I love sports car. Like, I wish that it production wise. I just wish that it was a little beefier. That's it. Like, I wish that it, like, they're like someone would do, like, it doesn't even need like a full remix, like just a little more. Just a little. Yeah. Well, here we are. We've talked tape McCray to death. You started off this podcast, you know, with a whole bunch of, like, very positive things to say about, uh, Addison Ray's album. And then you went for tape McCray. Do you feel less positive about famous a gun than you implied? No, I love him as a guy. Like, here's the thing. Like, I truly, like, hand on heart. I picked sports car because I knew that you two weren't going to. I knew that Todd wasn't going to. I tried. I tried. I felt that it was very unlikely, right? Like, yeah, it seems so obvious. Like, and here is like, like, you and I were talking over the weekend, um, about like, the, the cover that just came out or like, I didn't just come out, but like, I think, like, came out on YouTube a month ago and like finally got put out on Spotify, relatively recently, um, which is the Rebecca Black version. Oh, yeah. And the Rebecca Black version is fucking great. It's really, really, really good. And like, as soon as I heard that version, because I'd kind of put it off, I was like, I don't want to submerge my, because if I listen to that, because you said it was good. I was like, I'm going to forget about Addison Ray and just think about Rebecca Black, queer icon. Rebecca Black. And, um, as soon as I heard that version, I was like, well, it's just going to go for this. Like, there's no way. I was like, I was like, I was like, I was like, entrepreneur loves Rebecca Black. Like, this is the thing that's going to absolutely push it over the edge. Like, if there was any debate, this was going to be the thing that I will, but I will say about that is that if anything, it risked turning me off the Addison Ray version of it a little bit just because I think Rebecca Black is a stronger singer. And the production of it is a little bit more interesting. I do still think that's not even to knock Addison Ray or performance on that song. But I did kind of take me a back. I was like, oh, this is like a, maybe a slightly more skilled vocalist doing the song right here. It's really worth it to like, look it up on YouTube just because, first of all, right? Like, it's a thing that she's doing in the room. Right? Like, it's not, you know, like we're talking about like a fully produced record cut version of a song versus like Rebecca Black with like two other people in the background. And like, they're just kind of like farts and around with little bloops and bleeps as they go in order to like build the song. And like, her legs are crossed the whole time. Like, she's, she's seated. And like, her voice is so powerful comparatively. Like, I will say she sings, she could sing circles around both these artists. Like, yeah, she really like, I don't think people know how good Rebecca Black is necessarily. Like, if you don't, if you don't know, check out this version of Famous A Gun. Like, watch her just sit there with her legs crossed and like, just effortlessly do that song and be like, damn, uh, but yeah, no, I was being genuine. I wasn't like pretending to like Famous A Gun. Famous A Gun is really good. You can't, I mean, like, it's interesting because people talk about how like, Addison Ray also has Brittany influences, but like, I listened to this and I was like, Famous A Gun, Sympathy is a knife. Like, you know what I mean? Like, like, this to me, like, so obviously, like, when you hear Addison Ray say that like, her working on Von Dutch with Charlie XeX, like, really helped her inform who, like, what her identity was going to be for like this current era of her as an artist, it's so crystal clear on Famous A Gun. Like, I listen to that and I'm like, this is, you know, like, this is Addison Ray. Like, I don't want to say it's Addison Ray doing Charlie XeX, but like the influence is so there. It isn't not. Yeah, well, it's, and I mean, that in the best way possible. Do you name me and like, she really took whatever it was that she learned working with Charlie and turned out something that I think just works really, really well and like, is definitely her own thing. But like, you can see that they're the building blocks and she used them, I think as well as you can. You definitely can't talk about Addison Ray without talking about Charlie XeX. I also think you can't talk about Addison Ray without talking about Lana Del Rey. Sure, of course. She's sort of the daughter of those two mothers because, you know, this song definitely leans more towards the Charlie side, but she has other songs including her breakout hit Dio Pepsi, which are very, very clearly Lana coded. And it makes sense to have those two artists as kind of your twin North stars because they're both kind of deconstructing pop-start them as they're performing it. And they're both interested in kind of the idea of pop-start them beyond just the songs and their popularity. That's how you end up with a song like this, I think, because the lyrics, it's a very catchy chorus, but it's also like it's kind of a winking chorus. It's a little bit of a self-aware chorus. It's a chorus about being a beautiful glamorous pop star, but it's also kind of taking the piss out of being a beautiful glamorous pop star a little bit. And certainly like nobody does that better than either Charlie X or Orlando Ray. I don't mean to suggest that like my preference for the Rebecca Black vocal and maybe even the arrangement of that song. I don't mean to suggest that that means I don't think the performance and arrangement on this song aren't already pretty fucking top-notch. Like I think this is an incredibly well-produced, structured song. And I love so many of the different elements of it. Like the main synth hook is like a real pleasure center sort of sound for me. It's got that kind of like cascady EDM sort of sound to it. And the feeling that's kind of automatically hooks you. And it's it's paste really well. And certain lyrics are really smart. I really like I'm your dream girl, but you're not my type. That's kind of a bar. The best thing about the song. The best thing about the song by far to me is that little like synth punctuation at the end of some of the lines and some of the chorus lines. Like that to me is this song's version. Yeah, Rebecca, Rebecca Black kept that in her version. I was like that's the right move. Yeah, that is the sonic signature. It's this song's version of what y'all were talking about on the dancing on my own versus run away with me pod about the dancing on my own. Like that little dinging hook kind of appears throughout the song and just you're like, oh man, like what is that? I don't understand. I don't know what instruments making it. I don't know what purpose is necessarily serving, but it like sounds so good and it becomes the thing that you can't shed about this song. Like the very best part of this song to me is the bridge coming out of that bridge. I mean, it's a good bridge, not a great bridge, but coming out of it, the song kind of cuts for a second and you think it might be over and then it hits you with that little synth texture again and then it launches back into one more chorus. Like that's the thing that takes the song from the seven to the nine. That's the sort of thing that sports cars may be missing a little bit. I think that's right. I really like the thing that you said about, I mean, like so like the Lana Del Rey comparison is good and I wanted to say that if you look up the Rebecca Black version in the comments, I saw somebody write, um, ethically sourced grimes. Sure. Sure. The vocal especially. And I will say Addison Ray ethically sourced Lana Del Rey. Is Lana Del Rey not ethically sourced? No, she has, she has some issues. Not at the moment. I look forward to getting across some people for that, but like, no, I wouldn't say that Lana Del Rey is ethically sourced Lana Del Rey at the moment. Well, we'll, we'll see. And like, uh, diet Pepsi was like more than Lana Del Rey coated to me. It was like such a copycat move that like, even though I was, you know, that song's pretty good, but like, I could never quite get a hold of it in my brain or as like, as some completely accepted into my heart. Well, I feel that, but we wouldn't have loved diet Pepsi as much as we did if Lana was still making pop songs like that more regularly. So I appreciate when, you know, maybe this is sort of the diet version, you know, pun intended. We're not getting the real thing anymore. I appreciate when these up and coming pop stars will kind of give us a little taste of that version of pop stars. We don't get, we don't get as much anymore. Um, yeah, famously good. And I feel like is, you know, the Charlie comparisons are obviously there, but it feels more her own more less copycatting. Like, I wouldn't even necessarily say Charlie X X was the first person I thought of. I can't tell you who exactly I thought of exactly, but I was like, this sounds like, uh, like hipster stuff, hipster pop stuff from like 20 years ago that I can't remember the names of, but I was like, I know, I was like, gold frapp. It's like not gold frapp. Who am I thinking of? Yeah, it is. I do hear what you're saying there to like, there is something that this song reminds me of texturally that's always like just beyond my grasp of being able to identify what it is. But then itself is kind of a cool thing. Yeah. I am not as over the moon about Addison Ray as like a lot of people like I see the vision. And I think this is a like a really interesting person to keep tabs on. But like part of me kind of wonders if this isn't just a like a little bit reactionary. Like this is exactly what we would want an influencer turned pop star to be making music like. This is like the vision we have. We certainly don't want it to be Alex Warren. I think they were in the same hype house together at some point. So I was like, this is like, like whether or not the songs are there and quite honestly, I don't necessarily think the songs are there yet. But like, this is the direction we want to be moving in. This is interesting. This is cool. Let's wait. It's cool. So I think my self thinking that like, this is what I want an influencer to sound like though, because I can't imagine that I would ever ask the question, what do I want an influencer to sound like? I like that this is a direction that I want like pop girlies to go. In general, I don't want them all to, but like that someone's doing it. Well, I feel like the fact that she was like a TikTok star before she was a pop star is like kind of inextricable from it. And like that we have seen all the TikTok stars decide that they are going to be pop stars too. And like, well, if they're going to be here and they are apparently, like, this is like the ideal thing they could be doing, not shit like, you know, twinkle, twinkle, little bitch. Yeah. I mean, this is all very fair. I will say when I think of Addison Ray at this point, I don't think hey, that's Addison Ray, the influencer turned pop star. I think hey, there's Addison Ray, the pop star. Yeah. The influencer part of it, maybe because I've never been a TikTok person in general. So even though I was certainly very aware of who she was in her impact, it was never like she was inescapable to me as an influencer. And the music that she's making now does not sound like somebody where pop music is not their main gig. It sounds like she has been doing this for a long time. And you know, she obviously has the right people in her ear. She has the right collaborator. She's had help, but she's gotten there who hasn't. Sure. Exactly. And she's gotten there much quicker than I think any of us would have expected. And now she, she's here probably as long as she wants to be like, she, even though she's never had hits the size of Tate McCreley. Tate McCreley has had like four or five songs this year alone. Wait for it. Like the future is bright for Addison Ray. So, you know, who knows? Well, sure, that, but also just like, she is not dependent on hits singles at this point. She is minted because people care about her vision. People care about her albums in a way that maybe they don't necessarily yet with Tate McCreley. So she could, she's yet to have a single top 40 hit on how 100, which feels impossible. But it's true. Tate McCreley has had like four or five this year alone. I, if I still had to predict which one of these artists was still making like chart relevant or just relevant relevant pop music five years from now, I would guess Addison, right? I mean, we'll see like, I, I think Tate McCreley is moving in the right direction. I agree with that term. I think she is like, moving into someone who isn't just like famous, but like could be like a person you would want to, you know, stand over, make your life revolve around. Even if she isn't there. Yes. Yeah, I mean, but Addison Ray obviously has a huge head start on that on being a person to base your personality around. And you know, that, you know, wait, does your fandom have a name because you don't know about a terrible fandom name for your Addison Ray fans? Oh, I know about Tater tots, but I don't know. There's a campaign trail that we're rejecting. Tater tots is definitely real. That is absolutely true. I work with several self-identifying Tater tots. Tell us something else. The Addison Ray fans tried to make racists happen. I don't think that it's stuck. I am sorry that we are not a video podcast because I made a face. I think that might have salted the earth for Addison Ray fan based names in general. I think like, they got one try and they use it on that. I mean, I don't think that's generally what happens, but when you strike out that bad, like maybe one strike and you're out. Yeah, but just to go back to take McCray real quick, like I do agree with what you're saying about her getting closer kind of with every song almost. And I think this latest chapter of hers with tit for tat, which is actually her biggest hit of the year, but it didn't really line up. I don't think as well with famous a gun, but that song debuted in number three on the hot 100. That's a huge, huge hit. And that song is about her breakup with the kid La Roy, her real life pop star boyfriend. I don't think any of us care about that particular relationship or maybe not know that was happening. Like even to not, even to right now, I'm surprised we haven't had this conversation before. I mean, no, I I knew it when she wrote the breakup song about it. Like that's got it. Like you'd have to be like pretty serious deep into like TMZ stuff to have known about that. I feel like. Well, I mean, they had a song together before that. But yeah, it certainly wasn't like top of mind for anybody. But I think the fact that she is now singing about this relationship, it gives her like a little focus. Lyrically, and it gives her maybe a little bit more investment. And so both tit for tat and the handful of songs on the deluxe version, so close to what that come out after it. They do feel a little more personal. They feel a little bit more connected to her as a person and an artist. And I think it's actually working better for her than I would have expected. I don't know that that means her next album is going to sound like I don't know like sour. But I think I think you're right to say that she's moving in the right direction and that we might all still be underestimating her a little bit. Because I wouldn't expect her to get this far. No, wait a minute. You say that like we're underestimating her. I'm going to bring a thing up. And I don't know if this is fair play. But I am I kind of want to talk about it. So we over the weekend did our picks for this year's we do a pop music fantasy league, which is like fantasy football. It's that we pick pop artists. And then we see how they how they fare over the course of the year. And Todd was first seed, first to do picks. And your second pick was Tate McCray. And also for the record, you picked Addison Ray as well, who I think was like your sixth or seventh choice. So I want to be very I find this. I thought this was so interesting because I knew how you felt about at least sports car. But clearly you see a future for Tate McCray on the charts. And I wanted to see if you would elaborate on the fact that like you chose her so quickly. And that also that you picked both of them for the league this year. Well, I mean like the you goes in reverse order, you know, it's a wheel draft. So like I had the first pick and the last pick of the second round. So like there were, you know, this is like the 22nd 23rd pick. There are a bunch of people going in front of it. Um, Tate McCray is a huge pop star. Like what is it? What else is there to say? She is like really genuinely huge. She's going to be in the top 10 of your greatest pop stars. I mean, I'm sure. Um, I don't necessarily think she should be but she absolutely is. So, um, yeah, the direct things are moving in the right direction from Tate McCray, both artistically and, uh, you know, uh, charts wise. Yeah, I thought it was a good pick. Uh, yeah. I was surprised it was still available. Yeah, I think with the art with a song like Tate McCray, the question is just will she really, I mean, she's already done both an album and a deluxe and there was a single in between. She could take a year off, but I don't think that she will because I think that part part of the reason she's become so successful is just a kind of sheer work ethic. And she's out there. And she wants to continue to be out there. I think she is going to continue to sort of press the pavement. I wouldn't be surprised if there's another album to come next year. But I don't think she's going to disappear. Yeah, I think again, it's kind of noteworthy that Amy Allen is one of her lead writers, like one of the main writers she has. And again, I mean, like, Sabrina, take a drink for the third Amy Allen mentioned. Well, but like I think in the sense just that like Sabrina Carbender did two albums in two consecutive years. And like, I think a big part of the reason why she was able to do that is because Amy Allen is a real fucking workhorse, right? Like, I think that she can just keep pumping them out. So I think that Tate McCray has got the team behind her that if she wanted to put out an album in 2020, so she's certainly good. Well, she also just seems to be doing it a classic style. Like I saw someone say this and I think I repeated it in the video I did, but like she respects the fundamentals. She's a good way of putting it, I like that. Even when the greedy when she were, you know, launched this new phase of her career, like that was the deal. She did it classic style. So she's not it doesn't seem like she is particularly interested in going off to act. She is not, you know, doing anything else than being a Britney style pop star who can say who can dance who has like charts filling hits filling the charts. And quite frankly, she's almost like unambitious really, which is like kind of my problem with her. Well, she might be artistically unambitious, but I don't think that her pop start him is unambitious. And when you talk about kind of respecting the fundamentals, one thing we haven't really talked about a lot is her as a performer. And I you know, I listened to the podcast that that y'all did following the video, musical words. And she did a quick version of revolving door into a much fuller version of sports car. If I remember correctly, you weren't that impressed with that performance. But that's I mean, like I'm not impressed with that performance because those kinds of performances don't impress me. But if you are like that, you know, she she can do it better than anybody. Yeah, I mean, this this is her respecting the fundamentals of saying, okay, I've got this opportunity at the video musical words. Britney Spears wouldn't let a performance like that go to waste. Like Britney Spears wouldn't come like half-assed with it. She would do this incredibly, you know, or elaborately choreographed thing with a bunch of dudes, you know, shirtless posing as Greek columns. And there'd be fire and there'd be a sand pit and there'd be multiple changes of venue. And she did all that. I thought it was one of the best performances of the night. That was the night where Tama Craig kind of really clicked into place for me. But if you don't like the song and you don't really like the things that she's doing, then I guess it's sort of a non-starter. I was like, I was like, you know, like, you know, I was a kid and I was not super impressed with Britney Spears and her snake either. So like, it's just not what I'm into. Like, that's that snake. I mean, forgettable. Well, time or VMAs performance. If you are into that kind of thing, then yeah, that's a, you know, it's a big deal. I am into that kind of thing and I agree that it was a big deal. Yeah. But and also, you know, I have Addison Ray, you know, predicting her for a year too. And you know, fame was a gun. Maybe not a 2025 song might be a 2026 song. It's a fair point. Still hanging around the Spotify charts. Yeah. Yeah. No, it's it's going, it's rising. It's rising. It has a shot. It has a shot. I mean, that seems to be the way things work now. The bet, you know, the big justice for hits of the past five years are, you know, the, the big hits of this year. Yeah, it's never too late anymore. It's a very good one. So, you know, we'll see. We'll see. I have, I predict good things for Addison Ray. I predict good things for both of them. And I am glad that this is the one we did and not, you know, Kendrick consists of versus Lady Gaga and Bruno Mars. Amen to that. Yeah. Oh, God, like if we tried to have any conversation about fucking die with a smile, it would have died on the vine in 15 minutes in. Yes. Instead of this now over an hour along episode that we're, we are already over an hour. Oh my God. Okay. We got to get these are the right picks. I mean, like to exactly your point. Okay. We got to get, we got to get rolling. What do we do next? You remind me, Lena, we're going to do the questions. Okay. Unless, unless you want to reveal what your first pick was and I can reveal mine, although I don't know that either. Well, I feel proud of mine, but I don't know that you should feel proud of yours for the fantasy. Wait. With that kind of lead in, no, I don't think I can say. You're going to be predisposing your listeners to find a problematic and maybe it's not a matter of that. We'll leave it at that. We can, we can move on. We can leave that as a mystery. Somebody got to Nicki Minaj before I could. And I was mad because I was like, as the resident transsexual on this group, it felt like it was my right to take the transphobe. Anyway, all right. We do the four questions. It's to take all the things that we talk about and turn that jumble into something cohesive. I actually feel like we've been pretty cohesive so far, but why not? First question is one of history. It's weird when we do for new songs, but like one of these songs is going to disappear. The other one's going to stick around forever for the culture boots, which one of these songs has to stay. Well, I think the simple answer to this question is that neither these songs really have to stay. I don't think either of them majorly changed the trajectory of either their respective artists' careers or the pop landscape around them. They were more effect than cause as far as that goes. I would probably still say sports car just because I feel like sports car. I don't know if I would say it elevated Tatemakers to a new level, but it definitely was the song that sort of showed me she was here to stay. Greedy I felt was maybe a little fluky and I didn't quite see the entirety of the picture with her yet after that song. Once sports car hit and really kind of hung around and at least drove some conversation in the video too. We didn't really talk about the video, but the video's very eye-catching video too. That was like, okay, this is somewhere really going to have to contend with this year and probably for a little while after that. So that would say sports car for that reason. You know, this is just future casting, but I think fame as a gun is the one that's going to like have the longer tail like significantly probably. You know, it's already rising on the charts. You know, I don't predict it's going to get like, I don't see top 40 in it, but I think it'll be a presence at least on the charts. And I think it is the one that's going to point at us and rate to bigger, better things. I think this is a major stepping stone, but you know, who knows? 2026 is young. I have no idea. Or, you know, both of these people could disappear tomorrow as we have another like 1991 style revamp of the culture. Who knows? We could probably use it. So maybe be the best, but yeah. Yeah, I don't know. My, my instinct was to say fame as a gun. I feel like sports car as much as I like it. I feel like the, the best is yet to come. And like, as far as date McCrae is concerned and like, I think there are other aspects of that record that like, even without sports car, I think she'd still eventually get there. Something about fame as a gun, even though like, um, Addison is a record is really cohesive. Like, there's something about that song in particular that feels like the platform leafing off point for where she's probably going to go next. So yeah. And I also agree with Todd that I think that ultimately it's going to wind up having the longer tail. I think that like that is a song that is, it's a, it's a grower and out of a shower, I guess. Yeah. Wouldn't shock me. Question number two is sort of a question of like, not the history of a song, but like the process, right? Like, you can experience soup to nuts, the creation of one, only one of these two songs, which is the one where you'd want to see how the sausage got made. This is a little tough for me. I feel like sports car would be more fun in the studio. It just feels like a more party vibe in general for them to kind of come up with that beat and just everyone kind of be feeling it and trying to try it off of it. I do really want to see how many versions of that synth riff that I keep talking about they came up with before they got that exact right version. So that would be fun. But I think if you throw in the sports car video, which I think is a lot better than the famous gun video, I would probably. Oh, God, no, absolutely not. No, I really like a video. I love that video. Oh, yeah, it's great. It is great. Don't love that video. Sorry. There we go. So there we go. Our movie from the 80s video almost. I can't explain it. Yeah, that one feel. I mean, I appreciate that she keeps a certain low-fi element to her aesthetic. That's a video where I might have like to see her go a little bit bigger. It feels a little underbaked to me. Well, boy, like the sports car video just absolutely does not do anything for me. I really don't like it. Well, again, if you're not a fan of Britney Spears kind of classic shit, then that video is not going to be speaking your language. It really doesn't. I guess I can answer. I guess I would want to be in the studio for famous a gun if only I could tell them to capitalize the eye and is that's going to bother me for like, like if you were like lower casing all the titles, but like just the eye, no, that's supposed to be capitalized. But I do think famous gun is a much more interesting song. I'd rather see that get made. Like I said, I just don't vibe with sports car on any level. So I don't want to spend it more time with it, honestly. I also want to see, sorry, God. Yeah. And I think family gun would be pretty interesting. I would like to see how they got that specific sense sound that they pick. That seems like it'd be more fun to listen to. I'd like to see what they were thinking of when they like to ask them what fame as a gun means. That's so that's my pick. I'm also going to go with fame as a gun specifically so that I can tell them to capitalize the s and not the eye. And I'll say trust me, it's going to piss off one guy. But also, I mean, like, yeah, I think that I mean, there have been articles at billboard specifically, and I'm sure other places as well, where there has been sort of like this conversation around Addison race working with Alvara and if you're looking closer, who I think like I would enjoy seeing the process of like in all women trio, like sitting down and producing like an entire record. Like, what does that look like? What's the vibe? Like, do you want me to like just to get a sense of like what that crew is? Because my instinct again is that in the years to come, like these three people are probably going to continue going up in our estimations. So like, this is sort of like the Genesis point for them. As far as being a team, I would be really interested in seeing like what this sort of like first phase was since I suspect we're going to have more in the years to come. And I imagine those producers like their phones are probably bringing off the hook the last six months. Like, everyone's going to want that sound. I feel like in 2026. I agree. The third question is, oh, we got a competition for the first time. This is, this is the dancing question, right? Like, yeah, this is like Megan these diamonds going to get up to a night of hot girl shit and like, she's getting ready. And you know, she's got a playlist. Like, what is the song that is hot girl shit? Is this the, is this the hottest girl list matchup y'all have ever had on song versus song? It's got to be on the top five. It has to be. I mean, like, I was like, espresso versus hot to go. I was like, no, not, not, not even in the same atmosphere. The stratosphere is the one we're doing right now. These are the hottest of the hot girl songs. The real question is like, which kind of hot girl is do we think Megan would be into? And I have to, I feel like it would be sports car. Pretty great. 100 percent sports car for me. Yeah. I'd love to come up with the explanation for fame as a gum. But I think it's got to be sports car. The sports car might like sweep the questions for me. This is surprising. I didn't, I didn't think about this. I had a time. But it's, yeah, yes. Yeah. And the final question, most important question, not just of the show, but in all recorded human history. William Shatner, Thessian, equestrian, singer, we're going to give it to him. He's going to do a William Shatner version of one and only one of these two songs. Which one must be shot upon boots? Oh, this is not going to be a complete sweep, not a clean sweep for, uh, for Tate McCray, because yeah, this has got to be famous again. I feel like just, uh, yeah. You don't have to do many questions. Yeah. Like, there's a lot of you with my tone of innocence. Yeah, there's a lot of winners to be out here. This is, this is always, I mean, like, we joke a lot, but this is a lyric question, right? Like, yeah, which is the one that like makes the most sense. Like, if you're going to sit down and have yourself a little soliloquy at the lip of a state, age, what are you doing it to? Right? And like, the answer is famous again. Like, I don't even think it's close. Yeah. Plus, if he was going to do sports car, it would mean he'd have to understand what the lyrics are in the first place, which is especially difficult to do with sports car. So, I don't know if he feels like putting in that level of effort. He might just go with him. He'd have to dance too. Would make him do all the songs. Oh, I got a taste of the glamorous life. Yeah, I just like, like, there's no way. Like, it's like actually like really good. And I think would be really good for him. Like, he should do it. William Shatton. I know that you listen to our show. You love podcasts famously. He doesn't actually never listens to podcasts about Bill Shatton or but pretend. All right. Well, those were the questions. As always, the smartest comments will come from none of the people in this in this chat. We are going to give it over to the listeners. Let's see what they thought. All right. Colton Rice writes hydrogen bomb versus coughing baby. Oh, come on now. In response, M was like, well, God, I hope you've got it the right way around. Like, I generally don't know which one he means. Like, it could be either because I've seen people go really, really, really, really hard for sports car. And then we got a later comment that said, from Thomas Soros writes, tape McCray is the definition of coughing baby. She even sounds like a coughing baby on this track. Well, I can't totally disagree with that as it is. Just speak in real quick of the passionate sports car riders. I should mention at this point that my boss at billboard Jason Lipschitz. I believe these are his two favorite pop songs of the year. Oh, well, sports car. Hi, Jason. All right. Yeah. Jason Lipschitz mentioned. Yeah. All right. Kind and Clark Chancellor writes, Addison Ray's ridiculous wig in the music video is much better than McCrae's ridiculous wig in her video. That wig is great. That is like such a drag queen wig. It's really good. I was just thinking that today gets, it's very disheveled at the end of the at the end of the video. And I appreciated that. It's very chapel-roan coated. You know, like, yes. No, I mean, like, there's, there's, there's, there's, you know what I was thinking about a different music video where she's got like a giant, like, big, chapel-roan wig. Anyway, yes, absolutely true. Nick Field writes, remember that New York magazine cover of Young Maga and their inauguration Eve party? I could easily imagine either of these songs playing at that event. Can you? I don't know. I just wanted to say it's like, wow. Bring out the fucking flame flower here. That was not the first read I had on either of these songs or their intended audience. Yes. Who knows? Maybe. I don't know what those freaks listen to. Who knows what those freaks listen to? All right. Franco Del Rosario writes, as an addendum to the Megan thee Stallion question, which of these two songs is more likely to get on a Spotify playlist titled 2000s It Girl Bangers, Fire emoji, Bow emoji, nail painting emoji. And the answer is clearly Tate McRae and that immediately bumps up sports card to an 8 out of 10 for me. I was like, I don't know if I agreed with that. It depends on what you agree with that. It depends on what kind of girl you mean. I guess. Yeah. I do. You could argue, I think, maybe you could argue, anyway, that Addison Ray channels the spirit of those artists a little more authentically. Yeah. I don't even know if I'd agree with that, but it's at least an argument. Sonically, it is 100% sports car. All right. Smooth 22 writes. The whisperings and acquired taste, but Tate McRae attempting to make O golly G seductive cannot be acquired by anyone. We did not talk about golly G, which is absolutely the worst part of sports car, not even close. Tough hang. No, we can and it is the worst part. Oh, golly G is like up there, though. I like that to me is like such a great shout out to 2000s pop. Like, I think that that's so intentional. Whereas the golly G, I was like, golly G is again, one more time for posterity. Only something Sabrina Carpenter can pull off in the 2020s. Like, truly, I can't think of anybody. Like, because the way she do it would be funny. And like, she did it like sincerely. And I was like, what are we doing? Stop. All right. Daniel Schultz writes, I don't really get what famous a gun is going for or what idea it's trying to convey or why it makes the choices that it does, etc. But in fairness, she did say not to ask too many questions. So I want questions. Yeah. Yeah. What do you got? Why is famous? What does that even mean? What does she point out blindly at? I think it's, I think it's more about the blind pointing than it is about the gun itself. I think it's just, I mean, you know, fame is a gun. I'm going to shoot that thing. You know, it's a powerful thing. And I don't totally understand what the consequences of it are going to be. But it's my thing. And let's see what happens. All right. Adequately sized dog rights. Yes, my conscious brain knows that sports car sounds like a bad song. And famous gun sounds like a good song. But I literally just listened to famous a gun twice seconds ago. And I can't recall it. I feel like I'm choosing a middling Marvel movie over and acclaimed indie film. This is kind of fair in that. It did take me a while with famous a gun, like even when we were kind of entering a year end season, my Addison Reissunger choice was headphones on. Famous a gun was a song that I had like vague memories of liking. But I couldn't have sung it for you or anything from the, you know, half a dozen times I'd heard it. It really is only in the last couple weeks and lead up to this podcast. I'd be like, okay, no, this actually is one of the best pop songs of the year. Yeah. Uh, kind of same, which is why I offered to do Bruno Mars first when you offered it to me. I was like, I don't, I don't really know if I have any strong feelings about famous gun. I was like, no, no, it grew on me in exactly the same way doing this podcast. I'll get to hear it. Okay. Franco Del Rosario writes again. Look, Addison Ray seems like a perfectly nice and capable young woman. But and I know this is a me problem. I will never get over her Jimmy Fallon appearance where she heard her Jimmy Fallon appearance where she danced to knock off TikTok songs. Main pop girls have nearly been excommunicated for less. That does sound quite insufferable. I can't say I've seen that clip, but that does sound pretty good. That's the first time I'd think I'd ever heard of Addison Ray just because it was going around the socials with an extreme negative reaction. Her doing a bunch of TikTok dances badly. Like, you know, how, you know, Jimmy and Justin Timberlake do their, you know, history of hip-hop things. I do know that except much worse. It was with much less energy. Yeah. Not a sell job there. Yeah. No, thank you. I guess it would be my answer to that. Yeah. I mean, look, here's what I'm going to say. It was only a scant few years ago that she was the star of he's all that. So like, we've come a long way, baby. Like, yeah, I was going to say it for the next one. Brandon Hay was just like so much for talking about Addison Ray being an influencer pop star for me. She will always be the person my partner refer to as the star of Netflix is he's all that. So it is the first thing because like I was not a TikTok person. So like, I saw he's all that because I watched she's all that when I was in high school because I'm old. And like, I was like, man, this is bad. And then people were like, oh, she's, she's a real TikTok person. And I was like, wow, well, she's going to be a real like Christian mingles rom coms person in my face. Like, she really went in a different direction. All right. Uh, Jazzy SPF rights. Third party vote for Tadison McRae's famous of sports car. I knew so. Yeah. Not bad. Oh, Jeff writes the fact that you're calling it, uh-uh, means you're not ready. Is that a rest of development there? Yes, there's an arrest development reference. Yeah, not bad. All right. And one last one. This one comes from David so close to what is the short and sweet of this year. And Addison is the brat. Both serious downgrades. Uh-uh, I'm just going to cover your release an actual album this year that I would say is much closer to the one she released last year than so close to what is. But yeah, I'm sure. Yeah, I see what they're doing there. Yeah, you know, I don't accept for the fact that it is a very similar title to a brat song. I don't think fame is going to actually remind me of brat that much. Except for the fact that, you know, blank is a weapon, abstract concept is a weapon. Cloud is a flamethrower. Sympathy is a knife. Yeah, I mean, I guess I wouldn't hear Charlie XCX doing this exact song as much as sort of what Lino is saying that. Yeah. You don't make a song like this unless you are a very big Charlie XCX fans. I do think the DNA is sort of undeniable. All right. Well, that was the those are the comments. We got one thing left. The results. Who do you think won and buy how much would you would you guess? I would guess Addison Ray took it by a fairly comfortable margin just because I think, I don't know, I can't see your listeners being tater tots themselves and the cat the sort of casual pop fans don't seem to care about her so much. But I shouldn't even say the casual pop fans, but definitely a sort of more general music audience. Somebody listens to this podcast is because they like music in general, not necessarily carrying that much about 2025 pop. Those people don't seem to get it with tape McCray as we've covered. So I would say Addison Ray maybe strikes a little bit more of a chord with them. Yeah, I mean like this is my podcast. I've already said I'm on, you know, the negative side and you know, people are sheep. So there is that too. Yeah. I was going to say you poisoned the well, but yeah, I could very may well have who knows. But yeah, I do think that our listeners have probably already watched the worst of video under patiently waiting the best of where is it? You said unrealistic expectations for yourself. But yeah, I mean, I think that like, I don't think it's going to be necessarily a blood bath just because to be truthful even though I think the well was poisoned, I don't think our audience cares. So I think it'll probably be relatively even. All right. Well, here are the results for a total of four, 17 to 187. That's the wow 69 31s. That right 6931 split. Yeah, fame is in fact a gun. And it would fire through the sports car. Addison Ray will be your next big pop star of 2026. If our viewers have anything to do with it or at least bigger than Taima Kray this year, either way, I win because I got them both in the draft. So I'm just glad that we didn't have a unified front here. That was why I was pretty sure that the listeners were going to be decisive. But I was worried that both listeners were decisive and we were three O for Addison. And people would feel like, Oh, why don't we have a discussion in the first place? I mean, you know, two, you know, we've had much bigger blowouts than than this, you know, 31%. That's, you know, at least respectable. Like that's not like a why did you put this together margin? Well, I'll take it. Thanks again to both of you for letting me do this. And yeah, just say one more time. We are doing the greatest pop stars of 2025. We're rolling out the entire next two weeks, both Todd and Lena will make appearances on that podcast. Todd's going to be on this week talking about our honorable mentions are sort of 11 through 20 artists. And then Lena will be on a little bit after that to talk about an artist who I can't say for spoilery reasons. But if you have listened to this episode, any other episode of Sov versus Sov in the last 12 months, we probably guess who it is. All right. And, you know, and as always, we are putting links in the in the description to help out various trans charities. Please do that. Boy, it's been great talking for 90 minutes about things that are not happening in the world. But, you know, if you want to do and listen to this podcast, it really is like God, like I love making stupid content. It's like it is exactly what I need to be doing right now. But if you want to help out, please do help out. And you want to help us out specifically with the Patreon. You can go there. We are doing our bonus episodes. We did wicked last month. That's a really good episode. And this month, we will be doing headwagon, the angry inch, just a total gift for the both of us. I feel like, no, definitely for you. I mean, I'm, you know, yeah, yeah, I know. I know you're kind of not into it. Not a some of the classic, not something that was extremely important to me growing up. Whatever. And so do that. And thank you for listening. We just got one last little bit of business. The next episode. God, um, I feel so out of my depth talking about this Gen Z shit. So next week we're taking it back. We are doing a day in the life by the Beatles versus good vibrations versus the beach, by the Beach Boys. That's a spicy one. Actually, we haven't done, well, I can't believe we haven't done the Beatles versus the Beach Boys before. It's so obvious. Never. We've only done the Beach Boys once, and it was Kokomo. That's right. I feel like that's pretty early on too. Yeah. Early, that's like early days SPS. That's like deep lower SPS. Yeah. So it is time. You know, that there's your tribute to 2025. Yeah. Rest in peace, Brian Wilson. But like, we're doing it. We're finally doing like, well, and that's what we're doing in a couple of weeks. See everyone. [BLANK_AUDIO]