Spittin' Chiclets Episode 637: Featuring David Carle & Kyle Dubas

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I brought it towards the coyotes and I asked him if it was okay if I joined the spit check with podcast full time. No little bingo. Ryan Whitney got a pink Whitney out there now. He can be the song man. He's a full time member. Marley just gotten this from Chris Beak. Whoa, we're buzzing right now. Welcome everyone to episode 637 of the spit check with podcast. Hey check with fans, we're going to take a quick break for a message from one of our partners. StelBlueCoffee's new can lattes are here, crafted with 100% Colombian coffee. Each can is a good source of protein and comes in two smooth flavors, espresso, cafe mocha and espresso sweet cream. And whether you're craving your morning commute or chasing your pup, StelBlueCans are for those always on the go and for those who care. StelBlue is more than just great coffee. I named the brand after my rescue dogs Stella who inspired our mission to help more dogs find their forever homes. So when you drink StelBlue, you're not just fueling your day. Taste the difference and make a difference. All new StelBlueCoffee can lattes now available at stelBluecoffee.com or subscribe on Amazon for 10% off. All right, now back to the show. Disgusting stuff. Guys, packed episode for you. We got David Karl. They did it again. Denver. It's insane. It's insane. Great interview with him. Kyle Dubas. Dubas stock soaring through the roof this year in Pittsburgh. Biz God him. I don't know if you saw this by DMing him. Come on my podcast. That's very funny. And then sign me a baseball so I can roll out with it. Awesome interview. There we go. I said, come on the podcast. Or if if you don't, I'm selling all my Dubas stock. And then I wrote just kidding. Just kidding. Just kidding. LOL. No reply. But luckily, G actually communicated with Jen Balano. Yes. And goddess. So thank you very much to him. So double, double whammy for interview. And we are headed towards the playoffs. We are headed towards the playoffs. We're going to get all into that. But first, Merr, you were out there in Vegas for the semi finals Thursday. And then you flew to Chicago for ice con on Saturday where I believe finally a win. The first win at ice con where it was Blue's Black Hawks. I think five three finals. So I'd love to hear about that. But first Denver. Also, I should mention that a buddy of mine was on the red eye home Saturday after the national championship game said. Grinnelly was on his flight completely obliterated. Would have been very funny to see that. I don't know who had to sit next to you, G, but I guess you were smothered at the airport and getting on the plane. I will say I was walking down the aisle on the plane in three different people. And I wasn't obliterated. Actually, I just look like shit all the time. People just tell me that. And I was walking down the aisle three different people told me I looked awful. They're like, you look gross. You were going hard and you had to protect rolls from the blackjack dealers. Exactly. Well, that's what's going on now because I'm catching heat. Everybody just wants to tell you guys that were like belligerent or something else just so they can hear you guys give it to us on this podcast. It's fake news. Lots of fake news. If you have a bad beat, there's been times. I'm not innocent. There's been times. You've gotten a little frustrated with dealers. Well, he did a video review. He called in a video review this trip, but he were correct on the video review. Yeah. I was the first time ever where pit boss did not go upstairs. They're like, no, we're not going upstairs. I'm like, well, all right. I'm just taking all my chips and going home then. So thank you for giving me an early night. Yeah. I was like a little kid. Give me my ball and I'm going home. Can you give us the rundown on on how you did at the tables? I only I didn't do bad. The first day I didn't really do anything Wednesday afternoon after game notes. I crushed the craps tables up at the Durango with Migs, the Vegas insider. But then I made a fatal mistake. I didn't go home. I went and met G for dinner at the at the park. And we started playing the roulette thereafter. And I dumped it all back in. But all in all, I probably spent I think down $200. But you add that with all the drinks and the tips I gave the dealer $5. Yo $5 hard eight. You know, that's probably even. Okay. That's a win. That's a win no matter what. Mer Denver did it again. The dynasty continues. I believe you called this prior to the tournament where not many people saw it coming. I don't know if that's for sure. But once again, they called well, I invented college hockey. But I don't know if I called they would win. I just said they probably will win. I am not you can't bet against them. I did have a good feeling because I brought my DU towel out with me from two years ago saw that when they won. And and I just had a feeling. But I I wanted one of those on that win. We had North Dakota coach. We had the Michigan coach all on on game notes this year. There are buddies. G went to Wisconsin. Uh, chickla. Do you like these guys? We love these guys. We love Denver too. All my buddies went there. But um, yeah, they just win. It is crazy. So we'll get to ice con later. But we're lucky. Ice con got done quick because I got to watch the third period since we didn't have to watch the NHL game anymore. The toilet bowl game. So it was really something else and it's just what they do. They sit there. They manage. Then they adjust and then they win. It's been going on for 20 years. And as I watched the game, um, I was kind of not able to sit down and watch it. But I'm catching snippets and there's they have two shots on that just about halfway through the game. And I said, I go, they're going to somehow win because it was only one nothing. Now I think multiple people have said if Wisconsin could have got that second one, then it might have been a different story, right? But they couldn't. And it was all because of Johnny Hicks for people who don't know. This kid was committed after his WHO to go to Tennessee state. Are you wondering Tennessee state hockey? Yes. I am too. I had no clue. I think it's an HBCU school, which is a historically black school or all black school. I then asked is he black? Uh, this is prior to somebody said, no, whatever happened to Tennessee state, they didn't get a team. So Denver brings this kid in. He's not even starting. The starter gets injured. What happens? He doesn't lose one game. That is just Denver and a nutshell. You find some kid you weren't even going to get and coach Carl goes into this and he stands on his head and somehow once again, Denver wins the national championship. Another thing I'm shocked to to hear Grinnelli tells me the last team to win the NCAA title with more than one first round pick was North Dakota 10 years ago. I don't think Denver even has one first round pick. So it kind of leads into the conversation of college hockey and like, do you go after all these super prospects or do you build like a deeper roster and get a bunch of really solid players as opposed to a couple superstars. I mean, the proof is in the pudding and seeing these winners. They don't have a bunch of first rounders. So they didn't have the old guys too, right? Like how some of these college teams weren't even that old either. I look at the roster. 22. I think was their oldest player. They had a couple of those guys. That's not crazy considering how old some of these guys can be. But it's a coaching master class. I don't know if Thursday at the semi final game. Did you think Michigan had them beat or was it still the same thing? Like, uh, they're going to somehow win this one too. I was in there. We knew it was getting tight. Like we knew they were doing it. It was it was not a question. I had draw. So I was happy. But I swear and I mean, I can only imagine how these players feel. They must feel the same way. Like, it's never in doubt. We're sitting there comfortable as hell. Like, oh, yeah, they're going to tie it up. Not a big deal, but I was crushed for the Michigan guys. But I want to tell you something before that game, before both games started, we were. sitting at an establishment, couldn't get a seat. This guy offers up two spots or three spots or me, G and fish. We sit down. He pulls out this little handwritten napkin and he had two, two stat lines on it. One was for the, the most, like the best goalie ever in NCA history, their goals against their safer percentage and effort and I know like way back somebody crazy old and he goes, he can only get it officially if he plays 15 games talking about Hicks and he had all these numbers lined up. But I think given up the three goals in the first game, heard him, even though he only gave up one, but he was that close to having the best numbers all time with a minimum of 15 or 16 games, whatever this old timer was telling us and it turned out he was right. A Hicks was going to steal the tournament and what I've asked, I have a couple alumni that have one championships there and I, what is this Denver? Like, please just tell me the recipe. I don't get it. They said they just, they take grinders and they just grind away. They want guys that are there two or three years. They're not looking towards, you know, the future, the NHL. They're not worried about that. They're there to win and somehow Carl finds those guys before they're even like step foot on campus. They also, it was also like the adjustments he makes like a few of the Denver players we were talking like his in game adjustments are insane. And anytime you looked over at the bench, he is just indeftly coaching these guys. Like he called the time out. I believe in the second overtime against Michigan, I believe. And it was, they called everyone over the bench. You look at both benches and everyone is surrounded by Denver by by Carl. You look at the Michigan bench. It's kind of spread out. Guys are having side conversations. It's just, I think the way he commands is locker room and his in game adjustments. I think that's what sets him apart. Yeah. 100%. I think that was even a Michigan time out. And he used it like that to have a face off play lined up and they almost scored on that. But yeah, he's just the best of the best. And I don't think he's ever going to leave there. He's just going to be one of those guys that just stays there for 30 years. No, he already promised we already interviewed him. All time. Ledging my ball hockey team at Chiclet's cop. Well, that's your only chance. Yeah. Exactly. We actually asked him about that. He says, you know, I've kind of answered this a lot. But I said, I said like after to the guys, like he's so young. Two, like if all his kids are so young and he's comfortable, like he could go to the NHL in 12 years. There's no rush whatsoever. And, and Biz, kind of, you know, I'm not giving away the interview. He's like, well, you know, there could be what else is left to accomplish. He's like, just win more. I mean, it is true. Like what's at this point now, if you're a prospect or a player, it's like, why wouldn't I want to go to there? I think one of the players after the game is like, yeah, you just know you'll be playing for a national title. Who's ever done that in any college sport ever? Like has Nick coach K maybe. I don't know if you want to have 11 first five. Yeah. No, I just meant like never leave in building like a poll program to what it is. Like if he stays in other 10 years, they're going to name the rink after him there. Oh, they might already. What's the most one coaches ever won the national championship in hockey? That guy. Oh, hockey. I don't know. That's a great question, man. Gee, try to look that up. I imagine that's Med Baronson from Michigan, but I'll look that up Michigan. It's crazy. Like how good they are every year. They haven't won a title in, I think, 27 years at this point. So actually, I was at their last title against BC and I think it was over. Was it over time? It was then it was in Boston. It goes 98. Yeah. So three years ago, it was in Minnesota. And that was a great experience. I got to enjoy it. Last year, it was in St. Louis. Don't know how it was. But Murr, what was it like being in Vegas? I know we've shit on the. They couldn't even get fucking tickets. That was more of a net going on coming from the NCAA, but probably a good reason as to why because it looked like it was sold out. The energy in the building, especially in that last period, like they were on their feet when the goalie was pulled with a minute 50 left. Like everybody in the building was standing up. So what was the atmosphere like? It was perfect. I was a little worried. I said, Oh, there's no like local teams. Nobody can travel there. It was packed. There wasn't a single seat. There wasn't a single box spot open. You guys remember the hide lounge upstairs where we were for the finals, not a spot in there. It was it was perfect. And what happens with frozen for is it's not always just the fans of the four teams. There's people. We meet people. They're every year. They come every frozen for this is my 31st frozen for this is my 25th. I bring my kids every year. This is their 16th. It's main fans. It's RPI fans. You see jerseys from every team there. So when it was a destination like that, everybody made sure they're going this year. The guys trips, the girls trips, whatever it is, they were going to Vegas. So it was a complete home run. And it just makes you think like you got to just have it in Vegas or Nashville or Tampa every year because all the hockey fans are stuck up here in the north. We're freezing cold all winter. We can't wait to get down solid. There's somewhere warm. We know in April. We know. So then you went out to Chicago ice con. We don't know. Leo is the over sky. Don't really know how this year went as a whole for him. But ice con is where he gets together. All of his fans, his fan base are a bunch of lunatics, mutants, great people. But completely out of their mind, he has people from England, Czech Republic. They're all over the world. And he's never won. The last year was Nashville. I was at that. He didn't win the year before that was where my remind me. Nashville, Nashville, Arizona. Arizona business was at that one. He didn't win this year. I was not there. Port, I was not there. That was the real magic move. And you get a big W. So take us through ice con and how it went. How happy were the fanatics? Yeah. A lot of people are trying to take credit. Yeah. Because you and you and Dave weren't there. But you know, like big catch showed up. And I think he was there maybe for three minutes. And we scored three goals. So my work here is done. And he took off to go back and watch the Wisconsin game. So that was a big part of it. You see my shirt here chasing goals. So we did a new series this year to build momentum for ice con. You can't just come into one game. So we did a regular season. We went to five different cities. We went three and two on those, but it built the momentum for this ice con to get it done. And I got the numbers here from from Mr. Ice himself. 285 people joined us at Draft King's Wrigley for the pregame to get our bets in, get a couple cocktails, get the vibes going. Over a hundred people were at the bar on Friday night. The night before I missed that. There you see us at the Draft King's that place is awesome and Wrigley on top there. And these, these guys are all over me because it was a Bruins game on Bruins Day game. Murls, Murls, EBR, we doing the rule. We do. Oh my guys, I just flew in from Vegas. I haven't even looked at this line. The game went off at 11 30. I mean, let's just focus on the on the black clocks over. But the ice people are, they're, they're crazy. Five different countries they come from. And the best way I could say is I watched that documentary Waco on the weight of Vegas on Netflix. Shout out them Netflix. Like how do people like, how did this guy get in charge of all these people? I can never understand it. But then I went to Icon and that's what it is. He's like the Messiah in, in these people just like following him around and it was, it was awesome. We were up in the crowd and we couldn't get all seats together. Like you saw in Arizona, which was the best we kind of were spread around. So of course, it's crazy when we're celebrating St. Louis goals. But I wanted to be with the ice people. So me and him set out a tweet. Let's meet behind our section after the first period for a beer, just to keep everybody together. So we do that. And then we all go up to our seats. Low and behold, we get it done in the second period, which wasn't even very much fun because we won. We like, we're like, all right. Let's meet again for the, for a celebration of the ice people behind section 327. We go back there and everybody's already waiting for Mr. Rice. And I have the video. I think fish has the video. And he walks in and these guys just start huddling with David Corrash. David Corrash. And there's ice, ice, ice, they're yelling. They're going nuts. Come guys are yelling three plus three. Like it is just insane. So a huge celebration broke out. And then the, the beers were flying. The pink Whitney was flying. We found a little bar that had a TV. And then we all went and watched a watching or the, the national championship game. Hey, just goes to show you how, how quickly people can forget about losing. Like all those guys are probably lost so much money. Then you win one game like winning. Here's everything. Yeah. Yeah. So it was awesome. Again, next year we'll be doing the same thing. Chase and Gold will go to one rank every month. New ranks just all spreading the message. You know, the gospel, spreading ice gospel. You guys are like going door to door once a month. Now that you're in North America. I love that. So what was the backstory? What kind of alluded to it last spot? Or maybe the one before where Mr. Ice was just kind of wearing his three plus three equals seven. And he got like approached by like a grandma or a mother who like thought he was like basically like a, making a pedophile joke on his sweater. Like, no, no, no, no, no, because it says ice. He thought they were supporting ice. Like that, looking, looking for immigrants. Like we're not looking for illegal immigrants. We're just looking for goals. We'll call them a cult master and a pedophile. And all he was was a winner on Saturday. He's poor Mr. Ice just taking a beating right now. Oh, my God. Sorry about that. Sorry about that. Where did you get that? I use cons at that. That is how stuff gets lost in the telephone game. But yeah, we got a shout out draft Kings. They took care of it. Jack McCarthy on the bar stool side takes care of it. All the bars. are still people came, you know, chief and and Megan and Eddie and, uh, Cadditch got to meet him. So, um, there, it was awesome. It was an awesome party. Oh, well, it seemed great. I was bumped to miss it. Um, but Mr. Ice gets it done. The last thing I was going to have to talk to Geobot is, uh, you were hanging out with, um, with, uh, Gucci. Yeah. Uh, I got to hang out with him a little bit before he's a fucking character. I saw him at the dirty dog saloon the other night. Yance. I was there. I had some buddies in town. Remember the dirty dog? Oh, yeah. Shea and Scottsdale. Oh, yeah. That's who did you see there? Gucci. Uh, the, uh, oh, by three. Oh, nice. I think he's still in Vegas. I don't think he'd left. I just saw a snap out of him 10 minutes ago playing the slots with full Bennett. Yeah. He came, he came to Tom's watch bar Friday night. It looked like he texted us the next morning. He spilled wine all over himself. He texted us the next morning. Goes, did I spill wine over myself? Or did I become Mark Sanchez last night? Cause you was just covered in wine. So it's fucking hilarious. And then, yeah, then he came to the, uh, to the game with us and they did the, that's baseball segment, which was wild to see up there. Um, so that was pretty cool. A game national championship. They're fuck around with the players doing that. That's it. Six minutes left. Six minutes left. National championship. They got that's baseball up on the board. It's fucking crazy. That's awesome. That's awesome. What a character. Yeah. Um, that's great. And, and I think that Denver winning again, while surprising to some in, in the end, it's not that surprising. Cause that's just what they do. Uh, quickly before David Carrot, I'm going to just mention Call of Chalky News, TJ Hughes, the whole B finalist, uh, at Michigan, he signed with Colorado. I was kind of surprised based on their roster. And then somebody told me they don't have a ton of prospects. So it kind of makes everyone was surprised though. I think everyone boots on the ground. Like all the reporters, college reports, nobody really saw that one. Well, still, if, if they are light in the prospect pool, it gives them a better chance in the future. And then Michael Hage, who we talked about the incredible story of losing his father and much old Canadians, draft pick, uh, he's going back to school. So Michigan, you know, they'll look to finally get a win. Now, I think a lot of people were surprised. What I've been told is, and this could be wrong. If he hadn't sprained his ankle and got injured, he might have left. And he could be playing for the Canadians right now, but the injury agreed to add some different, different aspects. And now he goes back. He signs after next season, you still burn that year. And then you're playing on the Canadians next year if everything goes according to plan. So I kind of get that. I also think it's probably more fun playing in Michigan than it is in the AHL. If he were to be in the AHL, but there were some deficiencies in his game with, there definitely were some deficiencies. I think he was hard. Yeah. And, but, but before that, I think on the defensive side of the puck. So I think he gets to come back next year. He was the two C this year, right, with what TJ used me in the number one C. So he'll be able to come back next year. Michigan is going to be absolutely loaded and pretty cool. I keep hearing exactly, Bizz. Exactly. Every fucking year, I don't give a fuck. But it's pretty cool because his younger brother, Alex, is actually coming in next year. And the story of college hockey next year is going to be brothers because Max plant is returning Max, Max plant won the Holy Baker. He is returning to Minnesota Duluth, where him and his brother already led college hockey and points. Now they have their youngest brother coming in. So coach Sandeland basically gave three of them gave him an agreement. Max, you come back next year. I'll let you play on a line with your other brother. So three plant brothers that Minnesota Duluth, they're going to be one of the best teams in college hockey next season. They'll be on a line. Then you have Hage's brother coming to Michigan next season. So that'll be pretty cool. So, hey, college hockey story. I think that I think they're fucking making them a little in a lab somewhere at this point. All the brothers like the Chuck brothers, the huge brothers, we're other NHL brothers because we handle brothers. Yeah, brother. The OG, the snake boys. The ocean. Well, Merle, thanks for coming on and talking about all this. We are going to throw it to David Carl. So a big portion of the opener of the pod is obviously dedicated to college hockey. Merle's though, I, I think after David Carl, I need to get your, your breakdown prediction of Minnesota versus Dallas and why in the group chat, you've been throwing around the word fraud attached to the. And when he throws fraud around, it's actually been, I don't want to say correct, but he's closer to corrected incorrect. When he gives a team a fraud name, I will stick around. I will stick around after this. And honestly, people wait around because the ULG of Detroit Redwings and we mentioned Max plan. I think they're maybe hoping he'd leave school, but right now we'll go to David Carl. We'll talk NHL right after because there's a lot of shit to talk about. This episode of spitting chickens is brought to you by Body Armor Flash IV, an official partner of the National Hockey League. Flash IV is packed with electrolytes delivering faster, longer lasting hydration without any artificial dyes, flavors or sweeteners, whether you're training, traveling or just feeling the heat, you need Body Armor Flash IV. It tastes great. It's good for you. There is no substitute. It's all about Body Armor Flash IV work hard, it's great hard with Body Armor Flash IV. Grab yours today at your local 7-11. 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That's code "chiclets" turn $5 into $300 in bonus bets if your bet wins. In partnership with DraftKings, the crown is yours. Gambling problem called 1-800-Gambler or 1-800-Mire reset. New York called 877-8 hope and wire. Text hope and why. Connecticut called 888-887-977-777 or visit ccpg.org. On behalf of Boodhook Casino and Kansas, wait your tax pass through May applying Illinois 21 and over in most states. Void in Ontario. Restrictions apply. Bet must win to receive bonus bets which expire in seven days. In a moment was required. For additional terms and responsible gaming resources, cdkng.co/audio. Limited time offer. Copyright 2026 NHL All Rights Reserved. Here we are again boys. Just another one down for David Karl and the Denver Pioneers National champs. I don't even know what to say at this point. I think we put his face on our new graphic for the for the parties and basically a member now. There we go. Thanks for having me. I'm fellas. Hey, congratulations. Incredible. I'll say this one. This one might have been even more shocking than any of the other ones because I looked up Saturday. Keith and I had a lot going on and 13 minutes to go in the second period. I think you had two shots on that. And I said to somebody next to me, I said they're going to win this game though. But take us through your reactions in the game and how you thought that thing was going, you know, almost halfway through. Yeah, it's thanks for having me on. It was a wild ride. The year in general, I'm sure we'll get into it. But certainly the frozen four in the final game. I really liked how we started the game. I actually thought we had a couple of real good looks. We didn't get shots off. Like Shazowski was wide open beat a guy off the wall. We had some other, we're able to get into what we wanted to do. But listen, I give HAC and their staff a lot of credit like they, and we watched it all, how they forecheck and what they did in North Dakota. You know, and it was, is a challenging team to play against. I think our feeling was if we could just, you know, kind of weather it, you know, it's hard to play that way for 60 minutes. I mean, if we could find a chink in the armor at some point and be ready to capitalize, we'd have a chance. And, you know, again, they shoot the puck a lot. There's a lot of volume from distance. We blocked a lot of shots as well. Like I thought we were committed to defending the way we needed to. We just, their pace and their reloads was excellent. And it was hard for us to, you know, sustain pressure coming up the ice. Now you're changing, you know, instead of being able to get some old zone possession, we had a couple in the second where we were able to get it. But, um, this wasn't sustained enough. And I don't know what that, I think a lot of it is, is hasty for sure and how they play. But, you know, the, the double overtime game, having the later game, we, our guys didn't get the bed till, I mean, we got out of our, our meal room at 1230. We saw guys in the lobby talking to parents like, and I know what you get the off day, but it's a two o'clock game turnaround. So you, I know that played a factor. Ultimately, you're really, really proud of the guys for, you know, kind of digging in and playing how we needed to and, um, obviously we were opportunistic and we kind of came alive in the third, but, um, you know, Polkamp wasn't full health, Buckburg grab his dealing with his stuff. Um, like there was a lot going on. So was it our best game? No, but we played how we needed to, to win a hockey game and, um, for that, I'm really proud of the guys. Yeah, for, for me, it was almost like, It almost cemented your legacy is no not having this wagon of a team coming in and you just finding a way to Basically outcoach them get you guys to buy in just a masterclass from you But I knew months ago or maybe a month ago that you guys were going to win because in the outline for today's show It said you know having Carl on so it's just one of those things. No, you guys So it's just Yeah, you guys you guys got the you get the mojo going right now, but I wanted to talk about that. What's his name Paul comb? Okay, Paul camp that kid. Yeah, like getting him over from Bemidji state like how much did that mean to you guys? It was a lot. I mean it's Came down to us in North Dakota when when he went through that process and He's a northern Minnesota kid from Brainerd You know, we had him at the world juniors. So I'll be honest. I got to know him a little bit there And I'm like if he transfers there's no way he's coming to Denver. I just don't see him in like a big city and But we had a few conversations what he went in and you know, he said it a lot in his media stuff Like he just he really wanted an opportunity to win a championship and you know to get so close last year in the double overtime game and It's hard being in our you know again. This almost feels it's not hard But no, it's not a feel sorry for us, but it's hard for new guys coming into our room Because all the other guys are talking about their championships and their tattoos and you know And so poke when you're in outs, you know, you're a new guy coming in you don't have that experience You know, he was really jealous of all the guys last year and then to get that close against Western and You know and then to be able to do it this year just really proud of him and happy for him And again, he's been banged up the last couple of months with a foot thing and a hand thing So to just kind of grind it out and do what he did and you know lead our team and scoring as a D like We lost our whole first line with us Booey and we lost our starting goalie and so pole camp buck burger The depth of our guys up front huge part of it and into game plan against, you know, AD That you know has this one attribute. I just as a coach. I think that's a lot easier than like prepping for a line Or or what have you so like he defended it at a really high level Well, and he obviously I mean he scored 18 goals set in NCHC record For goals this year So really proud of him like we told him in January You know, there's there's certain things that are going to give you an opportunity to play in the NHL But there's other things that you have to get better at that are going to give you a chance to stay in the NHL And he just really bought into that over the last couple of months of trying to do The things without the puck that'll hopefully get him a chance to stay with San Jose for the long term I don't follow college hockey the most obviously we have G who does the chick let's you throughout the season He kind of chimes in when something big's happening obviously with a played at BU So he knows a lot about what's going on And I want to ask about another transfer because there's a lot of fans who are listening right now who aren't really familiar with maybe the college rules But you get this goalie Johnny Hicks over and he came I believe as a transfer from from Tennessee state No, buddy. That's the crazy thing. That's where he was going He was in the WHL, but he didn't go there because they because it couldn't get funding It's good Yes, so that's not all the time I think it's a story Okay, okay, well, I told you I'm a college guy and barely graduated high school David. Well, you're here. It's on good Yeah, so he was committed to Tennessee state and he has him like he I saw someone who like was retweeting his commitment posts and it happened at the end of April last year So he hasn't like been a part of our program for a year yet But yeah, crazy story and you know comes in The guy he look of his record the last three years. He's like 80 and 12 or something Between us and Brooks and Victoria um You know the kid just he's won everywhere. He's went and it's an amazing story and he came in due to an injury and Obviously never look back literally never losing never lost the game Well, he never lost the game this year if you could give even more of the backstory like which one of your your your scouts or or did you discover him? You guys have scouts No, we don't know so you can have uh you can have four people that recruit and scout Do we have contacts and people in different leagues and connections With agents and coaches. Yeah, for sure. Um, I'll be honest. I can't I can't really pinpoint who brought Johnny to our name like brought his name up to us But I do Recall um, we were around this time last year getting back from St. Louis and Freddie Locke Decided to go into the portal and transfer to Brown For more opportunity davis is signing. We have quint Miller committed to come in and and we need another goalie um, and we're trying to find it's late in the game. He is not a lot available out there and um, I Tavis I'm sure heard his name from someone in Western Canada just Tavis knows everybody up there And we all sat in Fergie's office and watched two or three games of them and I think we might have called him that afternoon and offered him and it was done, you know two hours later It just all happened It's an amazing and most recruiting stories aren't like that, but it all happened within really a 24 48 hour window And what was it about him and like obvious at first when he came in he was the backup like What about him like eventually, you know, got the starting role. Was it as work ethic like what's his demeanor and personality like Yeah, I mean, oddly enough, I think we're I don't know how many teams in the country started three goalies this year Um, I'd be curious to know how many national championship teams started three goalies in a year, but we did um so you know Quentin started the year as he's draft big a Montreal got a great year in Chilowac um And in a linen wood we played Paxon Geisel um we gave Q and I'd off and we played Geisel and goal and gave him a chance and um Then we went back to Q and rode him for a long time and During that time Johnny was practicing and um, you know, Paxon got hurt a little bit But gave Johnny an opportunity to get a little bit more reps and practice And he he showcased really well and you know to where he then became the backup And Q got pulled a couple times in January we put Johnny in um, he did well. He played a full period up at North Dakota Um on the Friday night and he kind of cemented himself as as being the backup And then when Q gets hurt is a it's a wild story because we we were winless in seven Um through December and January Q stands on his head at North Dakota on Saturday night up there in January We win three to two or four to two probably have no business winning Q is unbelievable Um, and then we come home. We're playing St. Cloud We're up to nothing in the game. We're playing well. It's parents weekend Uh, we blow a to nothing lead. We lose four to two And then that Saturday night Three minutes into it's like a must-wing game. We're 13 and 11. We're 13th or 14th in the MPI Our starting goalie three minutes into the game. He has a load of a lower body non-contact injury as he's coming out of the net He kind of twists something up and so Johnny's going in we're playing St. Cloud And we just lost our last two games against them. We're 13 and 11 One one game the guy who just stole us in North Dakota games out And Johnny's never started a game. He played a purity played some some op-up time And the kick comes in he shuts out St. Cloud six nothing I think it really sparked our guys like our guys didn't know He was gonna be this right? We believed in him, but we didn't know he'd go on a run Like this and and we win the game six nothing um, he plays against Duluth the next weekend max plans the only weekend He didn't have a point all year long. He shut Duluth out on Saturday night And he just he went on this amazing run. He actually broke Jimmy Howard's safe percentage record He qualified for the single season statistics because he finally played enough percentage of our games And he he tied the goals against average record and the safe percentage record For college hockey um this year and he started his first game in late January. It's unbelievable story. Holy shit It really is this this year by you and you mentioned 13 and 11 like yeah, we're 13 and 11. We ended up 29 and 11 We didn't lose after that The blow in that lead to St. Cloud. They got Tennessee State couldn't get the funding base Unbelievable. They could be natty champs right now They just have a goalie What were like did they give him a nickname earning in the locker room all of a sudden it's like majestic creature comes from from nowhere and like helps them win an addy Like what what was his uh everyone sort of calling him Johnny bricks instead of Johnny hip so about that kind of that kind of stuck Brever one and um, he's a great kid very very soft-spoken um You know, he's he's got routines like You wouldn't believe he's just he's very very dialed in um and he's unfazed. I mean you saw him get run over in the Michigan game And he just kind of he just laid there kind of motionless for 20 30 seconds just collected himself and dusted himself off and Came back in and even that Duluth weekend he actually left the game. We're up for one. He cramped with like 14 minutes to go in the game Duluth scored Like right away and then again to make it 4-3 we held on And and honestly at that time you're like maybe it's just not our year you know like it's just I'll be happy if we even get this thing to overtime and uh We've we ended up win the game in regulation. He comes back the next night And shuts out Duluth and like I said we you know we have a loss since the end of January, it's really a remarkable run after going on a seven game, winless streak and all the things we dealt with in goal there. - Especially for college kids, and I'm sure going on an 11 game losing streak, it's gotta be hard to keep them positive, keep them together and stuff, especially nowadays kids may be talking about transfer and all this, the nonsense that's going on. So for you, you must be so proud of that group and your staff for keeping these guys on track and ultimately finding a way to win. - For sure, I think, you know, that's what college, like the years we've had that we've won, we've had some, we've had to go through some things. In 22, we lost four in a row in the middle of October, November, in 24, we lost three out of four, we got embarrassed at home by Western Michigan, we got swept at home in February. And it's like, that's what it's about, you have to find your way through that adversity. And if you can't do it in the regular season, you're not going to be able to do it in the tournament. And that's what I thought made Wisconsin so challenging, like they had been through it as well. They, at the same time, we were on our seven game, one less streak, they lost, I think, six, seven or eight in a row through the month of January. And, you know, they found their way through it. And you just know you're going against a really battle test, a group on the other side. And we've all seen it. I mean, like, Tampa's here where they set the record regular season, they go and lose in the first row. It's like, they really hadn't seen a lot of adversity that year. And you're almost better off to have the opportunity to go through some of that stuff so you can sharpen yourself and learn a lot about yourself in your group. And if you can find your way through it, it's going to give you confidence when it comes in the most important times of year. College is so, so different now. We actually haven't spoken since the CHL rules and kind of what's happened there. I mean, I look at your roster, right? You talk about Johnny Hicks. He comes to the WHO. Then Chisowski came from the WHO, so to Clark Kaz. Well, that process has to be tough for you. I'm sure you're getting more of a handle on it now. But like, how are you figuring out guys who do want to come while also recruiting USHL and guys who are always eligible? Like, it's kind of just be kind of crazy for you guys and all coaches right now to figure out how this all works. Yeah, it is for sure. There's been a lot of change in college athletics, but there's been like college hockey's actually dealt with more change than any sport because of the CHL rule change as well. So we've had to deal with portal, house settlement, roster limits, or caps, all that type of stuff like everyone else, but then you throw in 60 teams with the players into the development model. It really can throw it for a loop. I think we were pretty patient last year when the rule changed because, I mean, to be honest, we're not even know if I can talk about it, but we were named and some kids sued the NCAA and named us as one of the schools because of the rule and how it was and it was an attempt to get the real change. So we were named with a number of schools and it kind of like, we didn't even know if we'd be able to recruit from the CHL during litigation and, you know, it's still ongoing. So there's not a lot really I can say about it, but we were able to finally actually be able to do it. So we were watching it, we weren't having to make decisions and, you know, rush into it. I think that actually helped us because a lot of our commitments didn't come until the later half of last year. And we brought in 10 freshmen. Again, a lot is made of the portal and obviously pole camp and Salmanon are players on our team. We got out of that, but we really do like to try and bring in freshmen when we can and, but of the 10 freshmen, six of them have CHL on the resume. And we really wanted to get the right kids the first goal around, I think with it something new, you don't want to bring in, you know, the wrong kids who don't want anything to do with the social experience or the academic experience. And so our 10 guys, they did a great job, you know, in the fall quarter, every one of our fresh, all of our players take four classes at a time. So 10 freshmen, four classes, that's 40 classes, Biz. And not one, there was only one B out of the 40 classes out of our 10 freshmen. And there was, I think three or four B pluses in the Russ Reyes, like, so the perception is like CHL guys aren't, they don't care about school or, you know, and certainly that's, that's indicative anywhere. Like you could get that kid in the USHL or the Western League or the L, but for us, it was really important to get kids who wanted the whole experience of Denver, who fit in culturally. And, you know, those guys came in and they crushed it. Like, again, there's six of them, Jameson, Eperson, Hicks, Miller, Shazowski and Caswell. So, did a great job and in the USHL got, I mean, McMorrel, Varkone, Milburn was in the BCHL and Miss M1, Peyton Nelson was in the BCHL as well. So, and it, I mean, to answer your question, I going forward, it's all blended together now. I mean, we have, Betty McBath was playing in the AJ, real changes, he was already committed to us. Now he's in Calgary, you know, he's a potential first, second round pick. So, there's a lot of kids that were committed to college in Western Canada that are now in the Western Hockey League. It's obviously open up the door for kids who didn't have that path available to him, but I think it's all blending together now. Probably quicker than we thought it would, but it's pretty seamless now. But the nice part for us, we can stay in the USHL in really the Western League. And when Denver goes to a Western League game, 95% of the kids in the game are in our area, like geographically. We go to USHL game, Prairie League will still recruit out of it, but there might only be eight or 10 players that are geographically in our areas. So, it's a really good use of our time to make sure that we know that league and spend time in it. - I just had a question that 32 NHL teams are wondering like how much is it gonna take for you to come to the National Hockey League? - If I don't know, we've had the conversation a lot with on this podcast and others, and nothing's really changed for me. So. - Would you close my ball hockey team? - What's that? - I said, would you coach my ball hockey team? We have a world. - Yeah, let's go. - Ball hockey tournament, yeah. It's actually doesn't conflict with your season either. We could really use you. - Okay, I love it. Where is it? - We don't know, that's actually, I think we're narrowed it down to two or three cities. Could we be going back to Boston? - I don't know. - We're gonna go to Denver, Bis. - There you go. - I don't know how on a shape. They'd be with that thin air. - But it must be hard for you, right? 'Cause I'm sure you are getting offers or at least interview process from NHL teams, but obviously what you're building there is like, that's legacy type stuff. Like you have three national championships in five years now, but the other side of the coin could be like, well, what else is there for me to accomplish at this level? So I'll leave it to you is. Is that not even a thought right now 'cause you're just still processing what happened after this year? - Yeah, I mean, I think it was. I think I had to talk so much about it. Last year, after the world's juniors, and obviously like the two and four that we had, it was just, I came up a lot the last little while, and again, I think a lot, nothing's really changed from what I've said previously. So I actually don't feel like there's as much thought or hype or conversation around it as maybe last year in that sense. So, you know, I guess, for me it's not a, I haven't thought about it nearly as much as I did, say a year ago because nothing's really changed in my mind and there was so much thought and conversation around it a year ago with everybody. - And just as a follow up, I was just gonna say, like the fact that you had so many freshmen, like do you enjoy that process of bringing in these new kids and like kind of developing them? Like is that what kind of keeps you going at that level? - Yeah, I think we were, you know, we knew it would be a challenging year, you know, again, we talked like, that's all we talked about at the start of year was like, well, how do you replace Divine Thompson and King or Top Line? And, you know, how do you replace Booeyam? How do you replace Davis? These guys are like, Denver Legends. They went to three out of four Frozen 4s. They went to championships and they were going away from going to another title game. And, you know, I think that was, at least for me, yeah, you want the experience for the next wave of guys and sort of bring in 10 freshmen that would, you know, inject some life and energy into the program. You know, we know it would be a challenging year and it certainly was to kind of get it to where we needed to, but if you're, I think that's what excites you as a coach and, you know, anything worth having in life is hard. It's not easy and, you know, continuing to win, like is really a hard thing to do. It's not an easy thing to do. And, like, Gregor Lorenz said it after the game, like, it's harder to win as an older guy than it is a younger guy. I think it's harder to win a second or a third time than it is the first time. That was the experience of the world juniors as well, talking to the old fives in year two. They're like, this is, when we were going through a little bit of a bump in the world in the tournament, they're like, this is way harder than a year ago. I'm like, yeah, 'cause Brindley and Cudder and Rucker aren't here to, like, you guys got to be the guys who lead the way and kind of show what it's about, you know, and. So I don't know, I really enjoy that like process and that experience, you know, and trying to guide the guys along through that and winning never gets old. I can say that. So to say like, oh, what more do you have to accomplish? I mean, we can win more. That, I mean, that's always an option. So winning is fun and to have that experience with these guys, you know, is really rewarding. I want to discuss kind of the state of NIL. I know at BU, there's discussions, right? Like, compared to these big 10 schools, this football money, the big 10 network, it's just a different ball game. Now, ironically, like, a lot of these teams pay huge money for guys and maybe it doesn't work out. Certainly not the way it does for you at Denver. But what is your guys position with the NIL and money you have to spend and is there an aspect of you that says, listen, like, I'm not going to spend $300,000 on a kid. Like, when I know we can get a bunch of kids with like less money, do you know what I'm saying by that? Like, how do you guys approach spending money on players now, which is still so weird for me to say when talking about college hockey and like also do these kids value more the development and where they're coming about, what they're going to learn from the next step over just getting a quick easy bucket at the time of when they sign. Yeah. No, I mean, there's there's a lot of layers to it and I'm happy to get into it. I think what I'd start with is college hockey is so it's so diverse in the experience offerings that you can have. Like, there's kids in Boston, like, like yourself who maybe dream of going to BU and we could offer that kid $300,000 and BU could offer him 100 and he's still going to BU, you know, like, there's a dream to play a BU or if that kid wants a big state school and he wants to go to a football game, you know, twice a year on a Saturday, it doesn't matter. I really just don't think the money matters when you're talking 50 grand versus 25 grand or 40 versus 60, like, there's so many different types of schools within the college hockey portfolio that kids are still going to try and find an experience that they want. They're going to find it, try and find a coach and a style of play that they want. Is there going to be a player that, yeah, the money is maybe in their eyes too much to turn down, you know, a high six figure, a seven figure number, you know, that negates all of that stuff. Sure. And is the media going to talk about that guy a lot more than, you know, the finer margins probably and I just don't think that's the real reality of it and I look at like football and again, we're not in that sport per se, but can you really outline the difference between an experience at Alabama versus LSU like it's going to, in my opinion, it's probably a pretty similar social academic experience coaching, you know, and so then the money becomes a real thing because everything else is pretty equal and so the money becomes a differentiator in college hockey like again, you know, we're talking to, we talk to some really good players and if it's between us saying a big 10 school, it's like you really just probably have to decide do you want to be at a big 40,000 person state school where football and basketball are the top sports or do you want to be a Denver or it's a private school, you're in a great city, but hockey's the number one thing and, you know, it's more about that, I think than anything else. I'm not sure money is going to fully change a kid's mind on that. So that I think is a really important thing, the other factor like everyone wants to talk about how the big 10 is just going to run away with things and the reality is there's seven of them and they all play in the same conference and so they have to play each other and they have to lose and not all seven of them can make the tournament every year and we almost had, I mean the CCHA was very close to getting three or four teams into the NCAA tournament this year, you know, that's crazy when you look at and they were well ahead of Minnesota and BU and BC, BC was on in the mix till the end, but you know, there's only so many wins to go around to get teams in and, you know, BU had the most draft fix of anybody this year and it didn't result in winning and so I think our model is such like with the six conferences that you're still going to have a Cornell, you're going to have Quinnipiac, you're going to have Duluth, Denver, like we're going to have our three or four teams, you know, the big 10s, not just going to be able to go and run and have all seven teams in the tournament. Yeah. So that's a factor as well, they can spend as much as they want, but they still going to beat each other, so I think that's a really good check within the system to ensure that teams don't just run away with everything. You know, how do we use NIL and all of it, you know, now I'll tell you like not one of our players came here with a promise of you're going to get this NIL deal, that NIL deal or would have you do some of them have some NIL deals, they do, I'll be honest with you. I don't even know about some of them, like it's a, it's an equipment deal with CCM for an extra five grand or with warrior for an extra five grand, it's not, it's nothing crazy. Revenue sharing is where we focus a lot of our attention, like we don't have an outside collective at Denver in the, I guess to get into it to help educate, like you can pay players one of two ways, you can pay them outside via an NIL collective in order to do that. You have to have a group of people start an LLC. It can't be a nonprofit, it can't be a nonprofit status. And so if the three of you wanted to give to the Denver hockey collective, you're not going to get a tax right off for it, you're going to have to give after tax dollars. You're going to have to give it to this collective and they're going to pay it out to the players. The coaches really aren't supposed to have any say or control over how that money's paid out. Ultimately, anything over $600 has to get submitted to a third party oversight with Deloitte. It either gets approved or struck down based on if it's equal value for equal work. So $100,000 to do one social media post is probably going to get struck down. There's issues with internationals in doing that. You have to do the work in Canada. It has to be paid into a Canadian bank account. So there's a lot of loophole or a lot of hoops to jump through with the NIL collectives. There's obviously like true NIL, which is Einstein brothers comes up to three of our guys and says, hey, we want you to do some posts. We'll give you a free sandwich every week. I think that's really what we're looking for, like, you know, stuff like that. Compulsive poll labels for the boys started over there too. So you can do that outside of these collectives. You can have like true NIL from the actual student to the business. That all has oversight too, but that to me is real genuine. Then there's revenue sharing, which is the $20.5 million at each school can share that off to into the house settlement challenge with that is, you know, the big 10 schools. They're going to use the majority of that money on football and basketball and what's going to be left over for hockey. And so then they have to go use these outside collectives where these all these hoops to jump through and yeah, they're doing it and there's ways around it and there's ways to do it. But our vision at Denver has been to try and grow our internal revenue share dollars so that we don't have to jump through the hoops of the third party stuff. We can give to DU hockey, we're an on profit and get the tax right off. It can go to revenue sharing. If that's what we want to do with it, and Denver's never, Denver's never going to be a place that gets the $20 million on revenue sharing. Neither is BU, neither is Providence, neither is North Dakota. You know, so I think the, the house settlement actually has been a great equalizer potentially on the long term for the non football schools because we can do more internally. There's no third party submitting contracts, you know, it's just, it's revenue sharing. And so anyways, that's what we, we, I'll tell you what we did this year. We did. We had Austin and cost of attendance for our players. Those have been rules that have been in place for last five to seven years. Austin is about $6,000 a year, cost of attendance at Denver's about four grand a year. And you have to get for your Austin, you got to get above a 3.0. So all of our guys were on full scholarships. They got $10,000 a part of their scholarship, cost of attendance in all STEM. We did zero dollars in revenue sharing this year. We did zero in outside collective because we don't have a collective. We had some genuine NIL that our players had with local business and their equipment feels nothing crazy though, no, not at all like everybody maintained over a 3.0 average to keep it. Yeah. Get there. Get there also money. There's $6,000. The way the rule is changed is now all that COA and that also and that's all going into. That's all going to be considered revenue sharing from now on. And so if you were to look at it, you'd say, okay, Denver spent 26 players, but just say everybody, we've ever say everyone got 10 grants, $260,000. That would be what you would say we spent on our roster this year by the new rules. And our job is to try and grow that number. And so yeah, we're trying to double that number, triple that number within the year or two years. But again, we want kids coming to Denver. We're not going to get into bidding more for. a McKenna type player. We're gonna try and sell what we are, development, winning. We're gonna have something on the revenue share side, but we're not gonna be the highest offer and and I think we want to fill, we want to use it as a tool to enhance what we do, not necessarily change what we do. And I think there's, there's certainly a lot of schools that are spending. I think a lot of it is overblown. We want to talk about the McKenna number more than we want to talk about, you know, the $10,000 number and, you know, the reality is, it's not as much as people think, but our job is to try and grow it and stay up in the landscape. Because I do think it's good, players should get a portion of what is happening. I mean, like our program makes money. We sell out 6,500 every night and I think it's a wonderful thing that if they can, you know, if we can double that number or triple that number in the next couple of years and they get to invest some of that and they get to leave with it, that's great. The other last thing I'll say is, you know, there's a lot of agents that they understand that college, that hockey, the, the better developed you are to come into your entry level contract, you know, they're like, when you were in and, and Keith and Bizzle, like there was no, there was bridge deals all the time coming off your entry level to your next deal. And the bridge deal has gone away for the high-end player. And so if you can pick the right spot that's going to develop you and you're going to have a really good experience. And then in the, yeah, maybe you're leaving some money on the table potentially. But if you can go for making a million bucks a year on your entry level to eat by eight on your second deal, like, is it really worth? Again, it's short-sighted. Is it really worth taking 150 over 50? When you know the place that's offering 50 is like where you really want to be and where the better development is. So there's just like a lot that goes into it. I don't think decisions in hockey are getting made based on money. I really don't. We're not football. We're not basketball. Guys are getting a little bit extra cash. Yes. I think it's a great thing that players are being able to get it and that there's more options for players to pick and choose their spots and have some say in their development paths. But again, our job is to is to try and continuously get better and better and add more and more resources to what we do. Maybe David Carl cameos. Like Robbie Burgers doing those. He's pulling. Yeah, just like just firing people up given coach coach speech. Yeah. Just like ball hockey teams. It's nice. Yeah. For example, I'd buy pay 500 for one of those. Maybe like only fans coaching clinics from David Carl. Well, it's a bit more expensive paywall, just more money for the program. I mean, fuck. He's jacked right into the ref sure off right into the ref sure bills. My last question for David is you talked about change in the regionals. We've tried making more noise about this because I think this year more than any other it was like what is going on watching some of the crowds and you brought up one through eight hosting nine through 16. Explain kind of your thought process on that and how you think it should work out in the future. And finally, if there any chance that this could switch or is it kind of like I think we're just we're we're in one here. We got to deal with it. Yeah, I mean, I think it's great that you guys are talking about it more and I think it's becoming more and more obvious. And you know, like it was great that Providence and Quinnipiac had to go to two falls this year and play each other. You know, because like Nate Lehman, he's he's been in seven ends of late tournaments with Providence and it's first time he had to get on an airplane. Every other time has been 250 miles from his campus. So he doesn't really it's nothing gets Nate like there's regionals close to him. And so he's never really had the experience. I guess my my thing like I see a lot of people, you know, talking about while the building size is too small at some of these places can't host four teams. And I would say that's that's why we should not do home site regionals. We should not have like us, Western Cornell and and Mankato should not have been at Lawson. Because there would have been nobody there for us and in Cornell. It would have been dead. It would have been worse truthfully than what we currently do. So the thought is we have a three-week tournament already. The by-week, you know, we've been through it a lot. It kind of slows down the momentum. People stop talking about college hockey. And it just provides this role that, you know, you want to be forefront of people's minds and keep talking about stuff. And so anyways, the thought is the top eight would host the bottom eight. You still wouldn't have your inner conference match up. So like Cornell and Quinnipiac still wouldn't have been allowed to play this year, right? So we would add Cornell and our building and Mankato would have went to Western and QPAC would have went to Providence and all the above. And you would add eight sold out buildings. And yeah, we got to talk about, you know, the days and times and, you know, what's the best for that? I always kind of felt like if you played two games a day, Thursday, Friday, Saturday, Sunday, it'd be okay. You know, you hear, well, who's the two's going to produce all these games? Who's going to, and then there's plenty of talent. There's plenty of people that want to call the games, do the games. -Fuck, we'd do it. I would be honored. There's so many people that would do it. And anyways, you carry it. You just carry it into the next weekend and maybe your Thursday games play into the next Friday, you know, like us in Cornell and Western and Mankato played on Thursday. So we all have equal rest and then we go to Western the following Friday. And you just, you just, you play the single games and it's a hard bracket. You don't recede. And I just think it's, it'd be so much better for the student athletes. It'd be so much better for the fans. You would actually cap your costs on travel. You'd, you'd have a maximum of eight teams flying. You might have less because of bus trips. You know, there's years where 12 teams have to fly in the end of late tournament. Like it's, you just, you remove a lot of the variables that we all worry about with attendance. I see these, you know, bracket predictions all through the second half. And everyone talks about attendance. So we got to move this scene for like, we got to, we have a solution. Just play topic at the bottom eight, play a hard bracket, remaining higher four seeds in the bracket play. And then we go to the frozen four. And if you got to slide the frozen four two days to give an extra day or two to rest, like that's fine. But what shocked me was, and I, we didn't do the data on this year, but the prior 10 years, it was, it was 30 schools, what a hosted in the first round, 21 different schools, what a hosted in the second round. You know, there's a lot of volatility. Everyone thinks, oh, just the big schools are going to host. And it's like, okay, you think if Mankato on their runs, if they had hosted a few times, they were once a for like two or three years of hasty. You think they would have went to more frozen fours, maybe? And everything is about the big schools. And I would even call us a small school because we have 6,000 undergrad, like we're not a big school. We're not spending, but some of these other places are spending. You know, you think that would have helped. Maybe, maybe, maybe, maybe, Mankato could have paid hasty. What Wisconsin offered them? Maybe they could have kept them. Maybe they could have kept it going. You look at Maine right now. I mean, they've had some kids going into the portal today that are their best players. They were a one seed year or two ago. They had to go to Allentown and play Penn State, like, is that fair? So I think about it more for the small schools to be frank, like, what momentum could Maine have generated when there were one seed and a two seed the last two years? You know, and then now they miss the tournament. It's like, you remember, they made the tournament. And you certainly don't remember they were one or a two seed. And so, to me, it's about trying to give teams something to actually hang their hat on and build momentum because we did it this year for the first time in our league playoff. And it was, it was unbelievable. Four of the six conferences do it. It's good enough to decide the automatic qualifier for the NCAA tournament. I just, I think the more you guys talk about it, the better it is. I do think it will come eventually. The voting structure and the committee structures changing a little bit within the NCAA. So I do think there's a window to do it in the next couple of years. I'm trying to just understand, like, the business side of it too, because it seems like most of the revenue would be generated through ticket sales. So that would be even more so a reason to fall through kind of what you're talking about. But is there some sort of like, uh, like sponsorship from doing these regionals? Are these cities like, like bidding on it? Where they kind of get this upfront payment to NCAA? Like, what is the financial or business reason? Why they are staying stubborn about what's going on? Yeah. So usually, um, to bid and there's a guarantee that you pay the NCAA. And I think a few years back, it was like, it might have been 150 grand to host the regional round. We actually got that number lowered. So it was more because we weren't having bids in the west and sort of like, well, if we don't have bids, maybe we need to look at the economics of the bid structure. So they lowered the number. And now we are getting more bids out west. Who falls is doing it? Fargo's doing it. We're doing it in Loveland. And, you know, I think that's, that's obviously a really good thing. But there, there probably be some sort of a hosting fee for the, you know, no different, like our conference tournament that the league gets all the ticket revenue. We host the championship game. The league gets all the ticket revenue. We get parking and concessions. Um, but is there a flat fee to host? Is it based on the size of your building? I mean, these are all very manageable things to be able to sort out. And it's the same at the frozen for it a bit on the frozen for it's obviously a higher number, right? The you have to give it to the NCAA for a guarantee. And then there's some sort of a profit share. Once you hit that guarantee number on the ticket sales now, is it 50/50? Is it 60/40, 70/30? I don't know that. But that's some of the business component to it. But once again, kind of like you're talking about the players taking 100 over 50 and getting maybe worse development, it seems a little bit short-sighted because I just did the 6,500 number and that would be your building. I don't know what they're selling tickets for, but it's $325,000 if you're selling them at 50 bucks a piece. Seems like a lot of money's compared to a- Yeah, I think we would make much more money doing it this way. That's crazy to me about it. It's like you don't even have a financial reason as to why you're doing it. And then watching it on TV, you're like, you're like, as a young kid, it's like, oh my God, I want to go do that. Like that is supposed to go to main. If main had two or three games on ESPN, and so we turn them into games like, you don't think that helps Ben Barr. They're playing in Noah's Ark for Christ's sake. People are like, what is that majestic place? The fucking Narnia in there. It looks like Noah's, it does not look like Noah's Ark in there. Yeah, it does. Like the new Odyssey movie. My final question is, you know, you mentioned all the freshmen and of course you guys have a big responsibility to develop them quick and go on to win a national championship, but a lot of it probably helps from your veterans and the guys that did stick around. Is there maybe any of the unsung heroes that have been there for four years? And maybe that was their last chance at it that like you deserve maybe a shout out or some credit for not only helping develop these guys quickly to win, but just for the time that they put in with the team. And maybe it's not the guy who's going to get the big goal or just a couple of the fucking, you know, the the glue guy, so to speak. Yeah, we, I mean, we only have three seniors on our team this year, but Kent Anderson was our captain. You know, he's a, to me, he just emulates the Denver story in a lot of ways. Was on our 2014 as a sophomore, you know, and he didn't, he played, but he didn't play it. I don't know if he played a shift in the over times against against UMass in the opening around that year. You know him and Lucas Olvestad were five six and, you know, he's a guy who just works on his game, works on his game. He's not super old. He's an '03. So he's a, he's our oldest Flareys 23 years old. He's not this 26 year old senior, but, you know, he had, we had some tough conversations after his sophomore year. Like, hey, what do you see my role being? What's my growth path here? I love being here. I just want to make sure you guys value me. And, you know, we had a great conversation and, and his junior year, he was deep partners with ZBuyum. They did a great job, you know, complimenting Steve's game and getting himself on the penalty kill. And then this year, you know, I thought he was, he was excellent forces our captain. You talk about bringing 10 freshmen along. And, you know, there's, we talked, there could be a stick, right? With the CHL guys and, oh, they're different. They're new. You know, are they going to be different guys in the room? And, you know, that's why it's so important to bring in the right ones early. And I thought, you know, we did that, but also can did a great job, you know, making them feel welcome and, and a part of it, leaving them the right way. And there's a big education piece because a lot of these kids don't, they don't think of college hockey. They're not thinking about what Denver is. And so they need to be educated on what we're kind of about. And can did a great job with that, regor as well, who's, who's going to sign here. Most likely with Minnesota, who has his right, San Luis Almanen, as well, is a, we're in a letter for us, but Ken, it's just funny. Like, so the guy who doesn't play a shift against UMass in the overtime, he scores the game winning goal against Michigan in double overtime. You know, just a really unsung hero like, but it really emulates when you tell the college story. You know, those are the guys you get really excited about sharing his story and, you know, hopefully gets the opportunity to sign a pro contract. And this is a great person. And he really has an identity to what he is as a player. That's cool because he, that's the old college story. You know, first of all, maybe you don't play a ton. It's off from here a little bit more. And by senior year, you're a big part. And that's changed. And that kids an example of kind of the old way it used to be. But thank you so much, Dave. It's, it's incredible. What you guys are doing, what you yourself has done along with the world, junior wins. And we appreciate you coming on, um, congrats and enjoy it. And we'll see you at check. Let's cut. Thanks guys. Appreciate it. Time. Thanks for all you do for college. I'm in the sport. So you guys see it. Thank you very much to David Carl. Incredible. What he's doing. True dynasty. And we'll see how many more he can get, um, put on to the NHL. I think that if he's able to take the big deal selects to the promised land, an NHL team should offer him 20 million year. Yeah. The problem is if he ever did coach your team and didn't win, that could be like the end of them. True. What happened to the the hardest coaching prospect the NHL has ever seen that won't even go to the NHL. Oh, he coached the big deal selects one year and Terry Ryan Roofie, he's drunk. That's like never came back. A legitimate worry and all of a sudden Denver's fucking two and 36 the following year. They all biz got him. The bisonette. He's living in, he's living in fucking seniors basement. Coach, doesn't he? Guys, the Detroit Red Wings. Oh, oh, boys, oh, uh, at one point this year, not even really, really early on leading the Atlantic, leading the Atlantic division. And what happens now with the Buffalo Sabers getting in they are the longest playoff drought in the NHL. 10 years boot off the ice, uh, lose a heartbreaker to the New Jersey Devils where they're up in the third period. The months, months of March and April to them have been complete disasters. And man, why is being so happy? No, there's a lot of mixed emotions. I feel terrible for them, but I also want an apology from a lot of their fans in which I criticize their lineup for a few years and they attacked me online, much like the Philadelphia Flyers fans who are learning that hard lesson, uh, and they're going to learn it even harder in the next 24 hours when Rick talk it leads to Philadelphia Flyers with apparently from their fan base, no first line center, no second line center, no number one D and not really a starting goal tanner until yet again, Rick talk it has another goal tanner like Darcy Kemper, uh, she loves and now Vlodar as essentially number one goal tatters in the league. So Bravo, uh, to Rick talk it, but to the Detroit Red Wings, um, why are saying Bravo to you? That's Bravo him. That's Bravo him, but I liked it. I made me laugh. It was a Bravo to you. It could be a Bravo to both of us. The Bravo brought up. Okay. The bids. Bizz get this one just before the Wings, the Detroit Red Wings become the second team in NHL history. The league's been around a while. Do have at least 69 points in their first 53 games and missed the playoffs. Oh, yeah. I was sticking with the Wings. I sent you guys this one. Uh, the Ottawa Senators made up 20 points on the Detroit Red Wings since January 12th. 20 points. I got a question for you. Is there, is there roster? Like, okay, so you look at Detroit and they got plenty of prospects, but looking at their roster, it's, it's like, it's all the same. It's very, all their players are pretty similar to one another. And then that's one of vanilla latte with your unspits and a vanilla, but then look at, look at the, look at the grind line. We had Darren McCarty on a couple of weeks ago. Look at the, where is like the toughness on that team? That's the one thing I think, are inside most cider has to bring it every night. And he's also playing 37 minutes a night. Like he can't, he can't be doing that. I think he had to fight cast elect this year. Right. Wait, you talk, they talk about all these prospects that they have. Whenever say they have six prospects that are supposed to be elite, how many of those guys are really going to make it and be impact players? Like, you got to trade some of these guys now while they're stocks high and get some guys to bring in. Like, they should have done that at the trade deadline this year to bring some guys in when they had a chance to get into the playoffs. You got to trade away some guys. Yeah, you might not like it. Yeah, they might turn out to be good, but realistically, not every single one of those prospects is going to turn into a player. Well, they did make a big trade. And this one hurts even harder and hurts even more now. The Justin Falk trade, they gave up their first rounder this year. It's unprotected. And now all of a sudden come may in the lottery. Like that could end up if they do well when the, when the, when the balls drop, I mean, all of a sudden you're losing a really high picking. You didn't get into the playoffs. I don't know how Wings fans thought Falk played, played down there. I know, uh, Peron didn't play very well there. No one was another, that was another move they did. And I just biz you said it vanilla latte, right? Like I just don't see, I don't see like a ton of toughness there. No, like Peron they brought in is the same as Raymond and uh, to bring it. Like, what was the point of bringing another little skilled righty made no sense. Well, he's a little, so he's, yeah, mind you, I think that those guys at their point in their career are a lot more dynamic. Um, I thought Peron was going to help the power play. and add kind of that sand paper around the net and down low. Like he could be a bit of a piece to shit to play against. He developed that skill later in his career when he was with St. Louis, where like he would just, he would be a pain in the ass. My biggest question is, is so, what are they going to do through the noise? There's going to be a lot of noise now. Like people don't want Steve Y at the helm. I think those people are a little bit ridiculous, although I would say give him one more year. And if he's unable to figure out right now, they're number one in the AHL. Grand Rapids has, I think, over a hundred points. I believe they hold the first overall position. If not, maybe second behind Providence, you guys can look that up right now. So yeah, as you talk about these prospects, I think rookie move giving up that first rounder for fall, but they do still have a lot of picks. And also they have gold tending coming along the way with Augustine and with, like always Kosa, Kosa. So you definitely got to shake things up this summer, right? There's a lot of GM's last year that when I didn't got guys who ended up helping out. I mean, we have one coming on in about 30, 40 minutes here in Kyle Dubas. He's got to have an unbelievable draft, an unbelievable deadline in trying to shake things up. And a lot of these prospects who are down in the AHL, like Ian's talked about, they do a few of them have to pop and have to come up and eventually make impacts. And I think that if you are able to see that growth next year, and for them to squeak into playoffs, that's kind of the start of, all right, let's go on a run here where you're guaranteed postseason hockey where I personally, as frustrated as it is and as much of the same thing as we've seen over the last three, four years in March and fizzling out at the end of the year, you got to stick to the game plan and not hit the panic button. That's it. That's it. I think you got to give it one more year, but it's we're going Braveheart execution style Stevie Bong-Rips at the end of next year if they don't make playoffs. And it pains me to say that because we're talking about an all-time great year. Oh, yeah. Man, it would be hard for the fan base to see like nothing change. I personally would have went off would have went after Robert Thomas. Like, I think that's ridiculous. And the other argument within the fan base is maybe after the Olympics as good as Larkin was in the first half and as good as he was at Olympics, you know, his play regressed a little bit, but we all we've we've all seen that from some guys who went to the Olympics playing all this crazy hockey. Also, Larkin had to come back in injury as well, right? So he might not be playing at 100%. So now all of a sudden you got people questioning Stevie why they want him gone. The fan base is divided on that. They're questioning their captain's leadership and what he's able to do and with whether he's a number one center or not. Like, it's it's ugly as the discourse from the fan base and the media side of it in in hockey town. So they probably think they got Mick David coming too. Well, that's because of Ryan Whitney. That's because a lot a little bit of delusion for the winged wheel. Well, here's what somebody else pointed out like this year Toronto and Florida didn't even make it dude. So it's not getting easier like Florida is going to be back. Toronto probably won't be, I don't think you never know based on like what Boston did this year, but like if you told them prior to the year that Florida and Toronto wouldn't be in, then you're like, oh, we're definitely making it and they still didn't. So I guess if you like they're going to I mean, they could finish the season with 95 points if they win their last two. I mean, who cares if you don't get in, right? But it's like their season wasn't a disaster. They're better than last year. It's just what to me is just the question mark is and I'm not questioning leadership at all, but to be in the mix every March, three years in a row, like what what has happened there? Now, maybe the games are getting that much harder and that much more physical and your team is not they're not upfront. They're not big and they're not physical and they're not mean. So it's like, I mean, look at like, like, I know I'm maybe reaching a little bit, but like how much would a guy like Castileck? I'm just the Bruins or the Bruins are local to me. Like a guy like that just get a guy in there and I say, Olivia, you know, guy who can play, but also it's still sphere in his opponents like some size, some meat on that on that fourth line. And it kind of turned with especially Detroit was the first team to really turn in the Babcock era where they didn't have a tough guy. They didn't have like a lot, a lot of physicality and toughness on their fourth lines. Would you agree? Oh, they had no, they had multi draper McCarty, they were after that, there was a like when they were. They had the true Miller went to Michigan state, the applicators, they were still pain in the ad they were hard to play against. They hit you every shift. They were, you know, they knew they were out on the ice. They weren't going to score every shift, but they were pains in the ass to play against. Yeah, but yeah, okay, maybe more. So it's gotten even softer. But that once the the mall be draper McCarty era ended in Detroit, it really felt like when Babcock came in, there wasn't a lot of that like that toughness to instill. It was more about pace using all four lines. Guys, he was comfortable with once again, I think like Drew Miller was a fourth liner there when we were playing in those in those series against them, but yeah, but even like conference in cop, I'm looking at their lineup right now, like kind of similar same player. Yeah, like a lot of them are like the same player in another thing. Two boys is like as much as I love them. And he's a legend. It's first ball at Hall of Famer greatest American born player of all time. But it's like is is is Patrick Kane still on your roster next year in your top set. Yeah, if he wants to be, yeah, but I'm saying is like, all right, well, it's I know, I know, I know what you're saying. I don't I don't know what serious cup contender has Patrick Kane in their in their top six. Well, they're just trying to make the playoffs. I get that. But they need to look at the line up. They need cat. They need Casper to like pop off next year. Andrew cops, not a second line center. No, you can't have him say he's a third line, like you said, the grind line, get that back. Get him there. Put comfort on the on the wing and get another big body. Then you get your grind line. It should go to Denver and just get five guys from Denver that just come in and grind and then let all your little righty score. Well, well, don't you think they should trade some of these prospects that we keep hearing about to get guys like they're saying guys like Olivier guys like because say your Columbus, you want a skilled young guy. You can maybe get rid of a guy like Olivier, but you're bringing in toughness into your team. That's going to make teams not want to play you every night. We're at a fork in the road here. Well, patience prevail and work. Well, these guys that they've been talking about and grooming and in a slow process coming up. Is it going to work? Is it finally going to we're going to finally see it next year and or is he going to make a bold move? And like I said, I don't know what the price tag for what Robert Thomas was, but I'll tell you right now, I would have offered two first rounders. I would have offered Casper and I probably would have offered Finney as well to get now all of a sudden you alleviate pressure off of Dylan Larkin because let's let's be open and honest. I would say if you look at the 32 teams, you would say is Dylan Larkin a first lion center? You'd say he is, but he's in the bottom half of first lion centers that are offered compared to all those other teams. That's not being disrespectful. That's just being flat out honest. I think you would what slot him in Mer probably in the like the 18 to 22 range as far as first line center in the league. Yeah, I would agree with that. Look, look at I don't know man. If he's surrounded by a good see like he's a fucking awesome player and he plays hard, like I'm not saying I'm not saying that let's go through the list of David McKinnon Barkov. I call I call like I would I would probably put if you if you had to make a bet right now, do you think that Leo Carlson surpasses him who's an Anaheim or I think Larkin's a second line center on a Stanley Cup team that and that's what I that's what I said two three years ago and the fucking fans while they hang me on the fucking cross. The awesome. I mean, what has he been surrounded with though? I mean Raymond's nice like what yeah, I'll read this right now. So this and this could be good for Wings fan, so go to the 2020 entry draft first round pick fourth overall Raymond hit 2021 Edvincent sixth overall hit 2022 Casper eighth overall. I think Casper can be a good player, right? But he's going to have to like take a big step next year. All right, then you go. They took Nate Danielson ninth overall in 2023. I think Jerry's still out, but he's still young, right? Let's see if he's going to have to pop off. Then you got Michael Brands ignite guard 15th overall in 2024. He's a guy who's going to also have to pop off. I think he just got called up and then Carter bear last year. He's an Everett right now. He's lighting it up in the WHO. So you had three years in a row with three pretty legit players. You're going to need these next three if not next year and a year after that to like like you you can't do it in free agency. And if you're going to not trade guys, like that maybe one of those guys is a guy like we can get help right now. But is the Robert Thomas call that's pretty legit because then all of a sudden, you available and I understand it would have been an aggressive move, but Stevie has to do something come deadline or not deadline, a free agency slash draft. Like something has to change about the dynamic of that roster because if they go in next year and it's kind of like, like Ian says, hoping on these prospects to pop, that could be end up being his demise. And I'm going to read you a list now and I want you to tell me and like I don't think I'm being too critical. Connor McDavid clearly the top first line center, McKinnon, dry cidal, barkov, Crosby, Ikel, Matthews, Braden Point, Shifley, Suzuki, Hughes, Robert Thomas, Aho, Nico Heasher, they got Larkin at 15 on that list, but you have Stutzle ahead of them. Offensively, yeah. I don't know about overall game, but offensively. I think those are pretty similar. I think those guys are all the same. Those last five guys that you've said, well, Celebrini's he's going to be there you go. He's now he's now he's 16. Sam Bennett. I mean, I'd rather take Thompson. Page Thompson's at 18 on this list. Sam Bennett. I don't know if you put Sam Bennett on Detroit. It's not like you're there enough. That's not fair. So depending on I might be missing somebody on that list, but as we just read it off, you'd have Larkin now at the 17th best center in the national hockey league, which once again, he's a first line center, but I don't think it would be a bad thing to have help where you alleviate that pressure. You have to you have to essentially have two two in the bottom half of that top 32 list in order to make it work. And Robert Thomas is that and he was available. So why not go get him. Here's another question for you that I was asked today. Would you right now? Would you trade Marie Cider for Zach Warensky with with the contract remaining for Warensky, where you would have, I believe, only next year left. Not knowing that he's going to he signed. No. He's too young. I think Cider is going to win a Norris. No, all right. If if if if that deal comes with an extension, which I don't even think that is that even possible, but. Fuck, I like Cider a lot. Like when I'm looking at Detroit, like that might be the one thing. I'm like, you got that. I'm what I'm curious about as far as this deadline move in order to get your team over there. And remember, Robert Thomas wasn't like a slapping lipstick on a pig or a bandaid here. We're talking a guy locked in for, I believe less money than Larkin. So all of a sudden you have two first line centers that are both making under nine million. Okay. Yeah. Could you have got it done for two first rounders? One of your goalie prospect, Casper and or Finney or either of those options in there. I think you could have done that. But towards the end of the trade deadline, we heard that the Robert Thomas deal if he does get traded is going to be a summertime deal because it is such a big deal. So maybe it does happen the summer. Maybe they're way they were waiting, but. And all the way to blues played after the trade deadline. They they probably want to keep them now. Guys, Jay fresh hockey proposed an interesting trade today on Twitter. It was kind of going viral on Twitter. Dylan. Sure one. Dylan Larkin to the Devils and Nico. He sure to the Red Wings and and he sure would have to do a signing trade. I'd rather Larkin. That's like the same. I don't know. Do you even see like a huge difference? I'd rather Larkin. I would like Larkin as my second behind you. So I would be on this. You mentioned like the with the. Okay. Yeah. McDavid dry side old Barkov Bennett, like those two teams have been the finals the last two years. So you're right. You do need two guys in the top 20. Every single time you see a legit team. They have two awesome centers. It's it's there's no secret. That's crazy. And that's also a big reason as to why I would like I think Pittsburgh could be dangerous. Well, we'll get into that with our dubious talk. But we do have another. I think we can move on from. Yeah. We have another ULG, but but a way different feeling one. And that's the Islanders. And I actually like to know from Islanders fans how they feel. I wonder if they take a step back and they realize like God, we had the playoffs. Like we were there, but we didn't get in. But still, like not the same feeling in Detroit, right? Like it's I don't think anyone expected them to make the playoffs. No one kind of could foresee what Schaeffer would do. The Islanders lose out. And it was just a disaster of a weekend, dude. Outscored I think seven to one dominated. And they had the chance to kind of at least keep themselves afloat, but they lose both games. They're out. Now they also made a big deal for Braden Shen, but in looking at the Islanders, it's like you got your coach, you got your franchise defenseman. Probably a team that could make some summer moves. Like Anders leaves a free agent. I don't know. I don't know what happens there with there's no there's not a lot of free agents out there. He could end up getting a bigger payday somewhere else. But any of you guys want to take what you think the Islanders kind of are looking at after the season in terms of like it was better than what we thought it would be, but we still had the chance to get in and blew it late. Yeah, I think that's exactly what it is. Like you get a guy like Schaeffer, the way that he played this year realistically, guys are going to want to go play there with him where a year ago, it probably was a little bit different. But now when you have a young stud like that, like you're telling me Pete DeBore takes that job without Schaeffer there. I don't think so. No way. So it's like you're building something. Did they think they were going to make the playoffs this year, probably not, you know, being in it towards the end of the season, having a chance to get in, probably stings a little bit more. But I think they're building the right things. Do I think even next year they can make the playoffs? I still don't think so. But, you know, Sirokin's unreal, Schaeffer's unreal. They got some pieces. But I think they need a lot more and maybe DeBore see something more than, you know, I don't see. But I think that there are some holes that need to be filled there. Like bars, L's, an awesome player. But you got to surround these guys with, you know, other skill players and like we were talking about with Detroit guys that are brutal the play against. Yeah, I think it's a good year for those things too. When I got their coach, you got Schaeffer. Another big thing for them is like you say, you need the young skill. They're moving their HL team finally out of Bridgeport. Bridgeport is not a place to develop prospects. They're moving to Hamilton. They'll be in like a hockey crazed place. The hammer. Yeah. That is going to be, that is going to be big for the organization going forward. I mean, I love Horvath. Barzell leads their team and scoring. Andrews Lee, like I mentioned, just kind of go through the roster free agent. They gave, they gave JG Pazzo that extension, right? Like DeAngelo's a free agent. Emil Heimanin had a good year, 22 goals. He's young. He's only 23 years old. Callum Ritchie. That's a guy. Okay. That's another prospect. It could be a hell of a player. I don't know. That Palatrade does not look great, Pasha. I don't know what you're talking about on the chat right now. That's probably one that they, they would take back sharp. Yeah. I know he is. I know he is saying it looks great for him because he got rid of Palat and the Islanders took him. Don't love that one. But overall, I do think, I don't know. Like maybe people would say they're better off being horrible this year. Like maybe that's an argument. And then you get another high pick. I don't know where they finish in the lottery. But the Islanders, they, I just look at it like a place. Nobody wanted to be that there was zero excitement, boring to watch. And now all of a sudden, one guy has changed it all. So for me, I'm looking at everything as a positive. G saying, K. Sean H. It's in will be nasty. So I don't, have you seen him play G? Yeah. Yeah. He played in the world. Juniors to 17th overall, played in Barry. This season was captain of the team, just a, like a New York Islanders type player, just a gritty motherfucker. Okay. All right. Well, there you go. So the Islanders. It ended. I thought the Islanders were getting in boys, but biz, you might have opened up my eyes on that T and T segment where I believe you said they stink without a broken. I think I'm paraphrased, but you were like, this team's really bad without thoughts. I think I said lipstick on a pig is the term I use, which I like to use a lot. So so broken was incredible, incredible season. Um, what we'll see what happens. I don't really have much to say about them other than the fact that like, yeah, they have a franchise demon and yeah, they got a great coach, but I could also you, you just had a year where your goalie was firing Roman candles out of his ass hole every night and making big stops and most saves above expected than any other goal tender in the league or at least top three. So I could see still this team missing playoffs for the next three, four years. It's like the Rangers, like they're just pissing away these years of having unbelievable goal tending. It's like you got it, you got to have, you got to put a good team around when you have a goal tender in this league, you have to have a good team around. Well, it's insane because we have, I think LA has three games left, but everyone else is one or two games. And we have one playoff series set. That's, that's completely wild. I think that the rocket were shards still available, still kind of up for grabs. A bunch of stuff remains to kind of be figured out here in the next couple, next couple days. The only matchup we have is Dallas First Minnesota. But before we get there, can I, can I congratulate the other team from Ontario on making playoffs? I was hoping that their Ontario's team and I'm saying right now, I don't care, I don't care who ends up winning the Atlantic. They possibly play that team or they get Carolina Otto was winning their first round. Whoa, I'm calling. And then there's one thing I forgot like all Mark plays good. Is that now stupid comment? I'm talking over 910 save percentage 2.4 I think all Mark's going to go on a run based on everything that's gone this year. That's just how things go in this league. It's just like you think the world is ending and and the roofs falling off and all of a sudden they're easy going to be kicking and leading them to the to the Eastern conference finals. We know that's how the way this goes, right? Maybe Murry? You said, whoa, could they not be Carolina? No, I like that. They have been. They've been one of the best teams when they get the just average gold tending. So all Mark, he's rested. He took a lot of time off this year. That means he's going to be fresher in the playoffs. I kind of like it. And it's going to be good odds on that. The noise, the usual Maple Leafs noise this year. It was kind of all over Ottawa. Thank you. Now it's like, it's all over. Like now we're in the playoffs. We got through that nonsense. We're in. Well, I had their fucking their Twitter account coming after me because of a take. I had a few a few weeks ago where I said, listen, they were all the Ottawa fans were out each other's necks. Like the fan base is divided on on the Brady subject. They had rumors of infidelity earlier in the year. Then they're going after all Mark for fucking taking a game off for a mental health. They're falling off. Pets are heads are falling off. And so of all people that come after once they clinch, it's the Ottawa senators coming after me because I said that we're still the fucking kings of Ontario, which we are. You can't label yourself the king of anywhere. If you haven't won a fucking playoff series, let alone never beat our team. The other team in Ontario and a playoff series were five and all against them. We beat them last year. So I'll tell you what, Ottawa and their fans, you're in the lot of great team. I've been pumping your tires all year. I've said the more Canadian representation, the better. But it's time to fucking step up and win a playoff series because if you don't, you ain't the king of nothing. Ottawa and king of shit's Creek. That's the only thing you're the king of the fucking loser series. The only worry is did you see Brady Saturday night? I don't know what the hell happened, but all of a sudden he's on the bench like curled over. He didn't play Sunday. So I don't know. Has any news come out G today? Have they said anything? Because that was bizarre. Didn't even look like anything really happened. They almost got tangled up. Hopefully he's okay. All we need though is is another another song coming out of Ottawa. Well, they learned their lesson last year. They learned their lesson. That girl's still been wrapping. Yeah, but it was the band in front of the arena. It was it was a disaster. It was that was when they lost the Leafs when that when that garage band showed up and played that God awful song. It was over. They're playing Coachella right now. No way headliner. They got the call up. But guys, before actually did we see the final Sid OV matchup because Sunday guys and Washington by the way, they work over Pittsburgh two in a row this weekend back to back. I don't know if you got a glimpse of the largest line to ever play hockey together. The two past brothers and Tom Wilson. By the way, the other protests. He's got four points in three games. I think three of them were Sunday's game. Maybe there may be Saturday's. He's given his brother a tap in and one of the goals. He's scoring his own goal. There's another protest. Biz brothers built in a lab. Don't forget about Bella. Bella rush. Bella and Alex. Imagine the labs in Belarus because they're a lot different than over here. You could do some badass shit that's not illegal in Belarus. So the other protests comes. He's with his brother. He's with Wilson. They're running around like lunatics. Leonard looks incredible. Cole Hudson's dominating. Philadelphia has their, you know, they control their own destiny here. The Washington's not dead yet. But OV and Sid boys, that might be it. That could be it. 21 friggin years. 100 time. They played as I hear that. They played 100 times. And let's not forget like when they came in the league, like if they came in the league right now with the way that the NHL markets players, like they weren't marketing players back then the way they were. They're on OLLN. Yeah, exactly. The outdoor network. But like the way that they were able to save the game and, you know, realistically lace all of our pockets with paychecks and keep the game afloat and keep it relevant. Like it's, it's, it's truly amazing what they've done for the league. And I think obviously people realize it. But they're going to go down in history as obviously great players. But you know, it's two guys like you think of like Larry Bird and Magic Johnson, the way that they say the NBA, like those guys saved the NHL. And you know, it was coming after the lockout. And then you get this Russian guy who's just fucking scoring goals at will. And then this, you know, Canadian hometown groan rivalry just does everything right. Like it's, what did you say? He did rivalry. On and off the ice. And, and it is crazy that the lockout happened. And then these two show up, talk about the NHL being a reality show. Yeah, I just, we talked about it on the broadcast too, the fact that with the amount of pressure and the amount of things that could pull somebody with that much fame and power in the wrong direction. Yet these guys play 20 years, carry the league, do what they do statistically. They win all the hardware. Each of them got their Stanley Cup. And then to get through those 20 years where nothing, no fucking no doies, no fucking bullshit off the ice, no scandals. And to the full other spectrum of it is just carry themselves with complete class, grace, and represent our game the best way they possibly could. There was a video that came out on sports center, Steve Levy kind of quarterbacked it. And it was just all these people from the, the DC area just communicating to OV in person, just how much of an impact they made on their lives. And, and, and, you know, I think that obviously he got the attention because the rumor is that he's going to be done with. But I can only imagine the video that'll come out for Sid when it's his time to find the hang him up. And I don't know like I said on the broadcast too, like the volatility of me thinking he's retiring, to not retiring. It's like going, it's like it's crazy. And I'm like, up and down, up and down. You know, you, you come into the season, the guy selling season tickets, who won actually the free, he won a free trip because he sold the most season tickets for the, for the capitals, which was nice. He puts out the email, hey, OV's last season gets your season tickets here. That's why I think he's retiring. I'm still going back to that admin guy. If you watched the game, though last night, Sid tried to do the handshake. Get the whole team. Yeah. That the fantasy. I was going through the volatility, OV wiped him off. Did he wipe off because he's coming back or he thinks he's going to see him in the playoff? You bookmarked my, my, my volatility. But then all of a sudden, you're like 60, 70 games go by and this guy hasn't taken a D zone draw. So you're thinking, there's no way a guy who a coach wouldn't rely on who would put out there for a D zone faceoff, even though he scored over 1,000 goals in this league, regular season and playoff, for sure he's done. Then all of a sudden, he does get a D zone draw. He scores like seven goals and seven games. He hits the 30 goal mark for 21 consecutive seasons or whatever it is, 2021. And their team now goes on the run where they're not statistically eliminated from playoffs. And then every question he's getting into before the game and after the game, he's swatting away and there's not one ounce of emotion in him. So that leads me to believe he's not retiring. He's not lead. He leads the team in scoring. Yeah. He ain't leaving. But if you, the wife, the wife was was was videoing every second of that little goodbye. His son has been there's got out of the wall, but he's been handing on Pock's player the game things over the night. No, he might, if he plays, it might solely be because his kid doesn't want him to retire. His kid's going to have a beard by the time. Oh, he's done playing guys. I'm telling you. I hope I can leave. I think he's going to be like LeBron and play with his kid. He's sticking around long enough to play with. That's why Malcolm went over the night before to play many sticks. They're, they're, they're honing their, there's crafting their skills in order to get them in the league at the same time. So they got beyond life. You know, G talked about the brothers, all about the brothers, the brother. No, it's going to be about the father's son combos. That's the next wave. That's the next wave of player. I don't think OV has a clue. I think that's, I, I think he's completely torn. But you got to think that man, they, they need to find out the Washington management needs to know at some point. So they brought up our ace brought up a good point about the DH. Imagine he signed a $3 million deal where legit all he does is play power play. Their power play isn't even good, is it? He's like an e-bug, but just because he's not putting his full concentration into it. They did that years ago in Chicago, Jeff Hamilton, all he did was play power play. And then the shootouts when those shootouts first came, he's, that's all he did sat there. No, we need to put up a Twitter poll. It's, it's been done. You can play with that. My last five years in the league, all I did was play power play. Okay. So not, not, I guess the first DH ever. Um, you're like, you're like more like an each year old though. You're not hitting the dingers. You're hitting the singles singles and getting walked. Um, I think we need to put up a Twitter poll. 27th in the league, dude. He's standing there. He's just standing there with a stick cock. Look, I think you're not going to get guys moving around. Now, yes, that's a passing problem. He will have if he played, he could probably score 30 goals in in in 2031. Like I don't it's not like every year, he got 30. He got 30. It's over. He's going to get 30. But at some point, put her pull, put her pull right now, is Ovi coming back? Is he retiring? Is Ovi going to the KHL? Well, he's playing there no matter what. He will play there. That's been said that no matter what, he will play there when he's done in the NHL. That'll be so weird to watch him play for the dynamo next season if that's happening. For his sake, I hope he only plays home games. God, imagine him flying the KJL pack and just watching those games. Well, Merwatches, Merwatches and the KHL. I think that's it for the Ovi Sid discussion because we know Sid's not done, but Ovi, it's up in the air. And then one of the things I said on the broadcast too, if it is the end, I would imagine a goal chase in having all that media coverage and be all that attention for that long made him be like, I do not want that again. He's not the type of guy who wants that type of attention. And then I don't know if people or he followed the Derek Jeter situation when he said it was his final year and every ball diamond he went into. He was getting a gold cart. He was getting a, yeah, but the years send off stuff painful. But I think that when you see the bronze regretting it, the bronze is going to be out of this world. It's going to be complete. He might just retire in the summer and not say anything. Yeah, right. Although he loves golf so much now. He might legit, like he's a golf junkie. So that could really sway him. But I think all of he's done one more year. He's done one more year. I might have just got him back in the league for one more year. But I mean, Washington's got some nice players coming, man. They they this, this may be one of the number of things I've ever said, but there could be if you gave truth to him, Chris Patrick and the entire Washington management, they could say like we're okay with him retiring. No, I would, I would tend to agree with three million bucks. I don't think it matters. I don't even think it's the money. It's just about like it's just time to move on. Dude, listen, if he comes back, he's going to get 33 goals, probably around 60ish points again, but it's just another year of kind of delaying the inevitable. Maybe I'm completely wrong. And that might be a ridiculous. They should let him take steroids. If he's coming back. Okay. I'm down with that. That's actually when they stopped him for taking them. I'm going to leave that one humor. Do not agree. Do you not think you don't think I'm crazy thinking that they might be like, all right, we can't start him in the D zone. Yeah. At the same time, a lot of minutes up. He's eaten a lot of minutes. We got all these guys coming, but at the same time, he leads them. It's scoring. I don't know. I don't know. All right. Well, that's enough of that convo because we don't really have a clue what he's doing. Only he knows. And as it pertains to him, he doesn't know yet. We got to talk about this first round matchup. The only one that is cemented, we have max two games left for some teams. And we still only have one playoff series decided. And it's been like that since halfway through the year, maybe even earlier murals. Why are the Minnesota wild of fraud squad? Okay. So I got to address this. Yes. I sometimes get ahead of myself in the group chat because I've gambled on that team at that moment. And I'm either very upset with them because they're laying an egg or I'm trying to reverse mush it by putting it in that group chat that they stink. But when I get into the fraud, fraud talk, it started with the kings because I knew they were always going to play the oilers in the first round. And I know they're never going to beat the oilers in that first round. So I said, yeah, they're fraud squad. I knew that coach didn't have it in them to win. And he did. He screwed it up against them. So I was right on that one. So this year, I moved on to Minnesota and I had a big bet on them. And they're goalie left the game. He like puked in the crease one game. And then the third period leaves the game leaves my bet in question. So I'm losing my mind like, is this team a fraud squad? And then they play some other team in a completely no showed again. I said, I don't like this team in the chat. I'm trying to reverse my bet. But then as I keep looking more, I look at Dallas. And they got to play Dallas in the first round and they're not getting past Dallas. I believe in Dallas. I could see that even when the Stanley Cup hints is injured. Peskin is injured. They got some injury questions in Dallas. But with that with that goalie with their with the other guys they have, I think they have enough to get past them. No problem. So if you can't get out of the first round, then you're fraud squad to me. They've kind of been on cruise control for too long murals. That could be part of that. That's what I've been, you know, like I keep betting on them. So that's maybe why I should have realized they're in cruise control because they know they're not really going anywhere. But I will say on Easter Sunday when they when they did come back and beat the Redwings in that game with Capri's off getting the hat trick. I started to change my mind a little bit, but push comes a sub shove when we do our our playoff predictions. We're doing it right now. Dallas stars win that series. How many games? I will do six games. I a boys, we spent a lot of time talking center. Iceman. And yes, hints, hints could be, I don't know if he's going to play in the first round or miss part of the second, but Minnesota's center. Ice positions, not ideal, but I agree with you. I don't think they're frauds by any means the same way I didn't think that LA Kings were frauds when they won the first two games of that series, but they were. No, they weren't. I don't. He said, if you lose first round, you're fraud. I don't think that you're, I hate, I don't agree with that. I don't agree with that assessment at all. And if you lose to Dallas, yeah, in six or seven games, I can't say you're a fraud. I agree with it. It's a good team. I agree with that. I'm going to say, I'm going to say Billy G's got that Minnesota magic going. And I don't know how they're going to do it. And I agree. They're weak up the middle compared to Dallas. I think that goal tending, I would definitely give it to Dallas, but I think that Minnesota is going to somehow pull a rabbit out of the grass and beat him in seven games. I'm going to go with the Minnesota wild. I'm not picking against Billy G again. And I think Minnesota, I think you get to play off style hockey. Minnesota is a tougher team than Dallas. I will say the full, you know, like I love Billy G. I love Kells. I saw them out in Vegas. I don't even think Minnesota had a prospect there, but he had to come there and watch the two games. I got to go to Vegas, honey. But speaking of brothers, the flino brothers, those guys are definitely the X factor in that series. They could just cause an absolute ruckus. Every game be all overranting in every whistle. If they can get out there against them and they they could be the X factor, but I'm on Dallas. I think the biggest key is discipline and how how well the penalty kills cranking for Minnesota as Dallas is lethal. They got to shut down Wyatt Johnson. And that's all I got to say about that. Let's go wild, baby. No offense to Dallas because they'll go on a rip. But that's what I got Minnesota and seven. What do you got? I got Dallas. And what seven? Oh, okay. I got Dallas and six as much as I hate going against Billy G. I just I've been saying Dallas for the last couple of years. I like them coming out of the West. But I think with oughtinger, I think with what happened to him last year getting pulled, being a part of the Olympic team this year. I think he's I think he's in a prime position to really show what he's made of this whole this whole postseason. And then the ranting in fact that we saw what he did last year. You know, he can win you games if he needs to. I just think they have the more more power. But the injuries like Whit said, it scared me a little bit going into the first round. Not even the injuries. It's the dead weight they're carrying with bang guy. And you know, he's going to be in attendance. They might have banned him. They might if there's one way they lose this series. It's bang guy. That's what business don't he's trying to bring in the bad juju on us. Yep. I'm going to be buying his tickets. If Minnesota wins, I think everyone can agree. It's going six games. If not seven. It'll have to be one of those like Quinn Hughes, like 14 point series. Yeah. Like that's that's the guy that could maybe win this series. I know it's a pre saw boldly, but Quinn Hughes is the X factor there. So with that, I think it's time to throw it over to Kyle Dubas. What a year it's been in Pittsburgh shocking to many people, including me. But it was a great chat and we appreciate it. So right now, Kyle Dubas. Very, very, very lucky and pleased to be joined right now by Kyle Dubas, the man who runs the show in Pittsburgh on the on I think maybe yesterday or today, the penguins clinched the playoffs. I for one, just getting stuffed in a locker by the penguins admin. I'll take ownership of it, but I wasn't alone. Congratulations on getting in this year and what you've accomplished so far. How are you doing? Great guys. Yeah. Thanks. Thanks for having me on. It's been it's been a fun year. the the players and the staff have been unbelievable and they if they've gone out every night and done it. So it's just been fun to be a part of. And, you know, we gotta just get ready this week for the upcoming weekend in the playoffs. So it's great, yeah. - Do you think the content piece with the Pittsburgh mayor was what you really got you guys sparked this year and got you guys going? That was unbelievable. - Oh yeah, that's it. - This is him. (laughs) - That way, they came to me about doing that. It was, you know, his chief of staff. It was important to them as he was just kids ready to come into office. So I just said, we're gonna do it. We may as well try to have some fun with it. There's enough difficult days when you do this and it's a great job. But the more fun you can have the better as you guys know. So it was. - You leaned into that nice and people were loving it. Your guys admin's been crushing it this year as far as, even the love you guys showed to the fans in that video. You guys posted the other day for supporting you guys to the dark times and what a quick turnaround it was. I don't think anybody expected this and you made some very ballsy moves in the Aussies and I guess we could start with Dan Hughes. Like, well, you probably have this pressure on you to get Crosby back to the playoffs with this group and just hiring a coach who's never been a head coach in the NHL, like, what was that process like for you? - I think we went into it, we went into it and what we were really looking for was someone that had two things, a great record, developing younger players and so if you go with Dan, he was at Yale, then with the Chicago Steel, national championship at Yale, one with the Steel, and then he had the US program under his belt as well. And those were all purely developmental jobs and then a great job there. And then it was digging into the feedback on him running the penalty kill for Nashville and the Rangers and talking, you know, so we knew the developmental piece was really strong and then it was trying to get feedback from veteran players that had had him in Nashville and Rangers. And that all came back extremely positive, more positive than almost anybody else that we were talking to about the position. And so we interviewed him and then he came into Pittsburgh as one of the final four or five people and, you know, he wasn't any lists or I don't know if he interviewed anywhere else, but just for us it felt like the best fit to accomplish what we wanted to accomplish last off season and we were unanimous as a group in management that he was going to be the best person for the Pittsburgh Penguins. And I mean, I've never worked with anybody. The work ethic is that was kind of the, you know, the the mistake round Dan was the work ethic was unmatched. And he talked to the people who he'd coached with before and they all asserted that he's, you know, the hardest working person they've ever worked with and he's proven that this year with us and think he's, for me, the best part of working with him in my roles that no matter what's happened during the year, injuries, illness, suspensions, you know, in December we had a bad stretch. We started to falter a little bit and no excuses, no, you know, no blaming of the players, but we don't have or where we lack and just trying to get the most set of every single person that we have as a member of our group and think it really connected with the players and they really, you know, they played their ass off form all year and it's been fun to see it all kind of come together. - I mean, that's gonna be a tough decision, right? Especially with guys like Sid, Gino, your fan base, just bringing in an unknown name like that and you know, especially after having Sully for so long and I've known Dan Muse pretty much my whole life he played for my dad in high school, like his family, really good friends with his family. Just he's just like a great person but bringing him into that situation of, you know, the lore of your organization, that had to have been a tough decision to make. - Yeah, I think the key for us Keith on that was that, like having been here the previous two years, you kind of knew the, you know, all that comes with, you know, how great the veteran players are in their expectation and then, you know, going through the previous two seasons with them that obviously didn't go the way that, especially the first year, the way anybody really wanted to and then transition it last year is, it gave me the experience to know, you know, how to, you know, at least help, you know, give my two cents to Dan on how to handle those guys as it went through the year and what was really gonna earn their respect and I just felt that if he was able to execute as he had it as previous stops and communicate with them and hold everybody accountable that it would get through to the whole group, not just the younger players or some of the other older guys and he's, you know, and I think the staff that he put around him has been really, really, it's been fun to watch that he's got, we've got two veteran guys in Todd Nelson and Mike Stothers and then we've got two younger coaches, Rich Clune who was with Anaheim last season and then Nick Benino who played with a lot of these guys and won with a lot of these guys and has always had their reputation as someone who could be a coach once he was done playing and the way that the staff, you know, the bench staff has come together that way. I think it's Dan built that out and all those hires were his hires and he did a great job to complement himself with what he felt he was gonna need both in terms of experience and ability to connect with the guys. - No way, so he's, he's seeked out Benino and Clune and that was all his doing? - Yeah, so Nick had obviously played for the penguins and won two Stanley cups and then played for Dan in Nashville and with the Rangers. - Oh yeah. - And so, you know, Dan was running the penalty kill. It's Nick Benino, I don't think he's ever not been on the penalty kill with any level. And so, you know, he, they had a great relationship and when I was supposed to be hired Dan, he said, you know, one of the first guys he wanted to talk to was Nick Benino about joining his staff. He'd always, they'd always talked about him getting into coaching and he was so positive that Nick would be a great fit and Nick has been an unbelievable fit. He's, you know, he's got the relationship with the guys from playing with them and going through everything to win with them. But the intelligence and how quickly he's adapted to coaching has been great. Cloner, you know, had played for me in Toronto and then been a part of our development staff in Toronto then went to Anaheim and Dan had asked about him 'cause he got, when Anaheim made all their changes, he became free last summer and just thought for someone on the development side but also he, you know, he's made his whole career on toughness and grinding it out and then getting into the development part, you know, and so he met with Dan and that was a great fit. But we were close on it but it was all, it was all Dan to build that out and identify who he wanted and the types of people he wanted and we just, you know, it was ended up being, you know, a great fit for all of us. There's been so many individual storylines with your team. Like you look at a bunch of guys that just the years they've had are incredible. For me, I guess it's defense been seeing Eric Carlson and what he's done and I was talking to Kevin Hayes. He's like, I think he's the best player in the NHL the last two months. Like I've just, what I'm seeing every night is crazy. What do you think kind of, not necessarily click but what brought him to this level this year and what he's been able to do for you guys? - For me, the key thing with Eric has been, there was a stretch while there was a two moments that I think stand out to me. The first was he got hurt in January and the narrative around it was, you know, it was a hamstring injury and he'll just get ready to go for the Olympics. And, you know, he was supposed to be out really right until the edge of the beginning of the Olympics in February and he busted his ass to come back and he came back in the second game of a second game of a back-to-back in Edmonton, which as a defenseman with a lower body injury, Edmonton. - No thanks. - Yeah, yeah, two days off after that and then we were to Vancouver and then we were home and had another four days, three days off. And that just he could have waited, he worked to get back into that game and then coming out of the Olympic break when Sid was out, you started to see him, like when you're in our room as you guys know, either from your experience or from just being around it, you know, Sid, everyone looks to Sid for everything and when he was out after the Olympic break, I think gave Eric a chance to be at his best in terms of leadership and, you know, put a little bit more of the responsibility and onus on him and at that point was where he really just all started to come together. The whole year, I thought he'd been really good defensively. They trusted him on the penalty kill and they just, they really put him into a spot to kind of take different steps and his skating has always been so great and obviously the puck movement, but this year it's been the defending and then as it's gone on, you know, the commitment and the leadership that he's shown to the group and I'm really happy for him because as you know, he's quite a polarizing guy in terms of reputation, what people say about him and he's way more competitive than I think people give him credit for and he's shown that this year in spades and it's been great to see him play at this level, especially at his age and just leads you to think there's a lot more left in the tank for him and the guys now, they want to help try and win for him because he's one of the guys that hasn't got to the finish line yet in the playoffs. So it's because of Sid. Because of Sid. Yeah, I just want to stick with the demon theme here that Witt started, but Ryan Shay, another guy that has kind of came out and nowhere this year, he's like, he's got 34 point, but the biggest thing for me plus 30, which I think was like 14 or a 13 point higher than anybody else on your team. He's gonna be a UFA this summer like, how much does the guy like that have? And I know in the beginning of the year, he was playing with Tanger and then he's able to play with, you know, maybe you're a six guy or a guy who's called up, you could trust him in any situation like, how nice is it to have a guy like that pop off? - Oh, I think he's played with almost everybody now, Keith. And it's, he's been, it's hard, it's a lot to ask. He's been with Connor Clifton now pretty consistently, as a really good pairing and together at even strength and on the penalty kill, you know, when I think been Tanger and Eric Carl somewhere out, he was on the pitch, he's been on the power play, he's done everything we could have asked. He was identified by our pro staff in the summer, three years ago and then it'd been up and down a little bit and then this year, right from the beginning, you know, Dan and Mike Stuthers had a real belief in him and he's just continuing to earn his way into more and more minutes and opportunity and he's the defensive one on the team that I think when he goes out, the coaches feel safe and everybody feels good about. But our players voted him the best defensive player on the team last week and he and Blake Lizotte. And so I think when your peers think that way about you, I think that says a lot to us and he's an awesome guy, one of the more popular guys on the team and just, you know, no maintenance for us and management, even in the previous years when he wasn't playing as much, no complaints from him or anybody just, you know, continuing to earn his way to more and more and help the team. So he's been, he's been great to have around and obviously really happy his third season with us now but happy at this stage, he's been able to continue to take steps and he's doing at a great time as you said, unrestricted for Asian at the end of the year. So it'll be a well-earned payday for Ryan Shay. That's awesome. I mean, we could keep going down the list. Like I was talking about it on TNT because we had you yesterday about, you should probably be top three nominee for GM management of the year. - Absolutely. - Who do you credit like along with you and the rest of your staff? Cause you look, I think Jazz pointed out, like 10 or 11 guys have had career years. Like you brought in guys like like Brazil, Mantha, Novak having a career year. Chinacov, who that kid is so fun to watch. It's like the rebirth of Jake Gensel, especially at the fact that he's got the 59 on the jersey. Like the Water Spoon, the fourth line in general has been probably the best, most consistent fourth line. So who helped you this off season? Like carve out this, this basic, this retool on the fly that's allowed this core group to now get another shot at Lord Stanley. - The credit to me is, it's the players. They're the ones that go out and do it and they've earned their opportunity and they've all been, the work they put in coming in and training camp all the way through, buying into it, sticking together when things got a little bit shaky for us in December. We had some really difficult losses and it's in the end, it's the players. Like in this position, you're here, you're watching, you're trying to help find the resources and build and help build the environment with the coaching staff, but in the end, the players go on nice and doing the coaching staff, they go behind the bench and they're in the fight to some extent with them. So that's where all the credits should go. I'm really lucky with the management group that we have. You know, Jason Speson, I talk and argue with each other for hours a day. - Fuck you, matches. Couple of fuck you matches here and there. - Yeah, we won a day, we get into about something and that goes back to when he played for us as well in Toronto. So it was, we were used to it, but he's, he loves to argue and so I've tried to provide a willing opponent form. What do you, even days and there's nothing to argue about, he'll find something. So it keeps you sharp that way. But and we've got, we've got Vuky Mapofu, he does our contracts and salary cap and league compliance, Amanda Kessel on our staff, West Clark and Jonathan Erlichman, West does the player personnel and draft and Jonathan runs our R&D or analytics department. And then we have Andy Socher runs our pro department. Andy was the video staff and the video coach before moving into the front office and he runs the pro department now and it's done a great job with that. So it's a, it's a good group. It's a lot of fun to work with this group especially and I think they all, you know, as it goes on, they'll have their opportunities to hopefully move on and run their own teams. And but in the end, the credit to me always in this position, the players are the ones on the ice going out and doing it. They're putting it on the line every single night and it's about them. - So you mentioned the draft and West Clark, who I know was with you in Toronto. - Yeah. - Did you have any idea that that Kindle would be playing for you guys this quick, let alone, you know, coming up on 20 goals. The guy doesn't turn 19 for it. They could another week and you know, you see 11th overall and you're like, oh, we got a player there in the future. But I certainly didn't think maybe this season he'd be in the lineup playing this well. - I think what we thought was that he had a really good, we went to Buffalo for the prospect tournament and he saw the smarts and the intelligence and he really impressed defensively there, which is really not when you go to those events. You know, it's all like Twitter highlight reels or Instagram reels of the high end skill play. But as you guys know, the coaches and management don't necessarily look just at that. And so he was really impressive there and we had a plan to play two or three exhibition games that probably get him back to Calgary in the Western League. But he just, you know, in training camp practices, scrimmages and then in the exhibition games he played, he just kept getting better and better as it went out. And then so we, at the very end of our exhibition season, we really threw him in the deep end. Detroit was basically playing their full lineup regular NHLers at home and we, you know, went with him as the number one center there and he had another great game. And so he had earned it the whole way. And that's just really the only way to put it to be expected. He would have, you know, 35 points and be on the penalty kill and be trusted in all situations. I'd be lying if we said that that was a prediction at the beginning of the year. And so he, we thought, you know, certainly over time he would get there, but, you know, at 18 years old and he's not, you know, as you said, he's not turning 19 here yet for another bit. So he earned it and I think it's the intelligence. And obviously the skill sets was impressive, but the intelligence and we, you know, and Wes's major thing was just really underrated defensive ability as well. And because he's not the biggest guy, but just the smarts and ability to make stops and be trusted and kill penalties, it's really been what earned the trust with Dan and the staff and let him kind of get thrust into greater situations here. I was going to ask you about, we just interviewed David Carl and just kind of for, even for you guys, NHL GMs and teams managing the whole, you know, where guys are going to be playing after you draft them, whether it's Major Junior College. Are you guys, if say kids in Major Junior, are you telling him a after maybe do a couple of years in college or are you guys just kind of letting these kids figure it out on their own? It's been a really different landscape this year, Keith, especially, like, so we've, we had three first round picks last year, Kindle, a lot of the Western League bills on it out of the Quebec Major Junior League and or Quebec Maritime Junior League. And then Will Horkoff at Michigan. So Horkoff was the easy one he was staying at Michigan. But then the other two, you know, the Saturday afternoon and the draft ended and driving home. It was all colleges reaching out about what Kindle and Bill's on and we're going to do. And then as the year's gone on throughout, and they both elected to go back to Major Junior and Zon in his case, and then Kindle was set to do that and signed with us and then obviously made the team and has played the full year. But then throughout the year now, it's been, you know, we had 13 picks last year. It's been trying to handle the, the guys who were on the college track, whether they should go to college at 18 or 19 or go to Major Junior. And then the guys that were in Major Junior, whether they should sign or whether they should, stay in Major Junior or whether they should go to college. And so it's something that we haven't dealt with before. And I think in each individual case, it's different. So some, you know, some guys need, you know, they need the opportunity to play more. They need the rigors of a long season and, you know, 60, 70 games and playoffs. And other guys need, you know, the benefits that college may offer. So we don't, we've tried not to get involved with, you know, actually giving advice to our guys. We want them to make their own independent decisions on their future. But if we think they're ready to sign and turn pro right away, we'll obviously go down that path. But, you know, and if they want our advice on which programs are good college programs from our experience, we'll give that as well. But it's still very new. So it, basically every week, there's something different that's changing about it. And it's, it's been really interesting that way. But I think it's always great for players to have options. I think now, you know, you're going through, it was great to see some of our guys. And then see double A tournament, the pressure and how they play in that pressure. And then, and now in major junior playoffs, we have a lot of our guys playing in those. And so you learn how they go through the ups and downs of a series when you're down to nothing. Or you lose the first game at home. And are they able to respond and learn how to go through that? So it's all been, I think. both, both avenues are great for players development and, and we, we'll only really get involved if we think of players going into a bad program where, where they're not really going to develop. I'm, I'm wondering too about Malcolm, right? Like, look at that chance. That's what I was going to ask about the boy trying to bully him into a contract. And, and it's so funny. And like, what's crazy for, isn't I have talked when we played with him. He didn't really speak English. So like his, his personality, I didn't get to, you know, really understand. It's become evident since, but over a point per game this year, another one I probably didn't see coming. I don't know if you would talk to him in the off season. I know obviously the contract's become a big story, but how, how have you enjoyed kind of working with him and what he's done this year and, and how much of a character is he is you've gotten to know. He's a bully. He's a bully. He's, he's, it's one of the more enjoyable players that I've ever had the chance to work with. He's, he's hilarious. So there's every day you're going to, he gives you some sort of like massive laugh, which I think is so important. And especially if you go through a full year, very proud. Obviously, as, as you guys know, very clearly wants to continue to play. I think he's been very public in his desire to, to do that, which, which, I mean, and I think he's, as I've said to him, he's earned, if he can say whatever he wants, he's earned the right to say whatever he wants and express, express himself. And he's, he's had a great year and I certainly showing and proving that he's, he's, he's got a lot left in the tank. And I think the thing we've seen this year is he's, he's, he's missed some time and every time he comes back from that, it kind of gets to that point where you worry if how a guy comes back when he's off and he comes back stronger with more energy faster and puts great work in, which I think, you know, comes, comes back every year in great shape. And so I've, I've really enjoyed having Gino and, and like, you know, he and I talked at, right after the Olympic break about how we're going to handle it as we go to the end of the year and, and, but hopefully, hopefully that conversation gets continually delayed here as we go through the coming weeks. He definitely walks by you and says, give me new contract. Like I, I could just see him doing. Oh, you're the same age, right? Hey, this man, his monies. Yeah, he's, oh, it's so great. Yeah, he's, oh, he's awesome. So he doesn't, he doesn't actually, he doesn't actually walk by and say anything, but he, he's very clear with the media and then, and then I'll talk around because it's in not in the competition in a way, just really because I enjoy talking with him about it. So it's, it's good. It's almost like he's playing like little media games like trying to get things stirred up. Yeah, now he speaks English a bit. Yeah, fluent, fluent. Yeah, you want to talk back check or, or Mike Michelle Terrians calling in the office. All of a sudden, you got got char as an interpreter. I'll tell you my first training camp with him. He showed up all brand new gear, skates out of the box, trainer sharpens them, goes on the ice during scrimmage, dancing everybody best player on the ice. And then once camp really got going, um, I think that that was like the, the year after where he, he got all these rookie bonuses. So like, I obviously wasn't with him the season before. And he was on the bike. We were next to each other and he got like a million dollar bonus check. And the Frank Bonomo went and dropped it off to him. And I'm like, what's that? And he opened it and showed me and I was like a million dollars on a check. Yeah, he's still, he didn't know how to say a word of English. So he just showed me and he's like, I think he went and bought a new Porsche like that week. But I was going to ask also about Sid, like, do you like, it's kind of weird, right? You're close to the same age. And this guy is like, Basie on hockey's Mount Rushmore. Do you maybe consult with him more than you would like a normal player? Like when you're about to hire a head coach, you have to like, hey, what's up? I started about it. People think that. I think people, a lot of people think Sid, like, is a part of decision making. Yeah. So the way that I've, it's interesting. So in my, when I was in Toronto, we had, we had Spes who's older than me. And we had Jumble who Jumble was, is both older than me. And growing up in Sue St. Marie, he was like the first, like, when I was, I was 10, 11, what year did he come in there? So he's, he's six years older than me. So I was like 10 when he came in and was a 16 year old playing for the Sue Greyhounds. And then he signed with us in Toronto. And, and so I had that experience of dealing with those that we had, you know, we had Wayne Simmons, we had Ron Haynesy, so we had, we had all these guys that were older than me. And, you know, so, and intelligent, accomplished guys and, and, and, you know, in some of their cases, I mean, Jove and Jumbo's case of First Ballad Hall of Famer. So that, that kind of was a great for my own development in terms of how to deal with those guys for me. And, but with Sid is in a different category. Like, I think everyone would acknowledge that and cares deeply about the penguins is only played for the penguins. One three times, you know, before I ever got here, deeply committed to winning. And what I've learned over time is he, you're always best to, with all of them to, to, you basically, just explain to them what you're thinking and why. Rather than necessarily ask them for their opinion, there's some things where you need their opinion on. And I think that applies to veteran groups all throughout wherever you're at. But I think if you're just very clear with them about what you're thinking and why they might not always like it. But if they understand where you're coming from, that it'll be, they'll, they'll look to that and they're really good people. So they're not looking at it and trying to figure out why it's not going to work. It's, you know, it's like, okay, well, we're going to go down this path. We might not love it. But this is where it's coming from. And then it's up to really up to our decision making to prove that it, that it works so that it was the right call. So yeah, and I don't, I don't know necessarily that any of the players want that burden of, of being a part of the decision making. They, they've got enough on their play with having a, preparing your ready to play, especially as they, as they, you know, they're playing at such a high level, so late in their career, all of them, which I think is, it's, it's, we've got four guys in their, in their late thirties that are playing at elite level on our team. It's remarkable. So adding more to their plate would, I think, would be a disservice to them. So it's, I, I try, in every case, to explain to them, you know, why we're doing what we're doing. And, and so that they at least can understand where we're coming from. Just for you, like, I think when you were high at his GM in Toronto, you were 30 years old, right? Maybe even younger? Well, I, I think I was maybe a bit older. As I went, I went to Toronto, I was 28. And then it was five, yeah, five, so 32 or 33. Yeah, so, I mean, just being that young and with all that media attention and everything in Toronto, like, for you, do you think you enjoy it more now? Just being in that shit show for as long as you were and kind of dealing with everything, people like Biz calling you every weekend, trying to get tickets or whatever. But now it just, like, even just talking to you and seeing you in interviews, it just seems like you're more, like yourself. You're just doing your thing, having fun and enjoying the game, like as much as possible. I really enjoyed the time in Toronto as well. I didn't really, I think it's probably just now with more experience and being a little bit older, like kids are a little bit older. I've just, you've got more, you know, and like we would be on here forever, going through the mistakes made over like in my career, all, all, you know, all through. And you learn from those and try to apply them as best you can. And I think that just, you know, when it gives you a little bit more confidence and belief in what you're doing. But I really enjoyed the time in Toronto. I didn't find, I don't find it all too different. I think people try to make it to be that way. I think the, like, the city's a little bit bigger, but like the outside noise, the amount of attention on the team. To me, it's very similar. In terms of my personal day-to-day here in Pittsburgh as it was in Toronto, the hardest thing for me ever was actually in, I was the GM, I became the GM at the Sioux when I was 25. And I, like, it's my hometown. You know everybody there, there's nowhere you could go. I mean, I don't know. I've business been there for sure, but I don't know I don't know if you guys have ever, you know, made your way to Sioux. I was playing in the old barn. Yeah. They had the dip in the seats there. They got the new building now. Yeah. So that was my hometown. It's a small town. The, you know, the Greyhounds are everything, especially in the winter. And I was 25. And it was everywhere you went. It was sort of people, like, with their opinion on the team and their opinion of you. And we struggled the first year there badly and then got it rolling. But that, to me, was in terms of my own personal space and the, like, just the weight. That, to me, was by far the most. And so, you know, even, even, I just don't know any other way to explain that. And I don't expect people to really to, you know, understand it. And they've listened and say, like, how could, how could that be with, you know, the Leafs to the Pittsburgh Penguins? But that's just for me, been my personal experience. Maybe it was an age thing for me at that time or lack of experiencing. But that, there, there'll never be anything like that for me. So, yeah, I, I think, you know, it's, those are the three experiences that I've had. And I've, I've thoroughly enjoyed every one of them. And, and obviously, we didn't, we didn't get it done in Toronto. So that's a, that's a regret and just try to take what was learned there and, and try to help the Pittsburgh Penguins as much as possible. The fact that you don't have any grays just says, says a lot about your car. Yeah, it's pretty impressive. Unless you're unbelievable. The, the, the, just for men. I never worked with - I'm a bit busy at all. (laughs) gray soon. I won't be long now. Okay. So I want to ask a fun one here. If you had a genie in a bottle and we could do three, but almost maybe if you want to narrow down to one, if you could have one redo on a move you've made throughout your NHL career as a genius, giving biz the jacket, the blue jacket. That wasn't him. That was him. And that's with torn all apart. That's what they argued over and why it parted ways, right? That's bad. It's like, I'm out if this happens. Oh, because Carlson's trying to recruit me. They sent me the cardigan, but I'll tell you this right now. I'm not jumping on the bandwagon because I don't have much luck right now, even though Eric extended the olive branch. I won't I won't bring you guys down. I promise. We appreciate that. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. To me, the one that I regret most is, I think I've said this before, only it's mason management. We traded mason to the floor. Yeah. He had come up with us the whole way. We signed him to a minor league deal as after his overage season in major junior. And he was in Orlando and the ECHL for most of the first reading play for three months, like just working with the development team. And that was my responsibility then. I was 16, 17 with the Leafs working for Lou. And he came so far, helped us win a calder cup in 2018. It was a huge part of that made his NHL debut the next year, which was awesome. And then, you know, he was 25, I think at the time or 24. We moved him to Florida. And it was, you know, we didn't we just we needed the skill at that point. We had some guys out the lineup and was a younger skill guy that came in. Yeah. Dennis Morgan. Yeah. And, you know, it was just for me, just, you know, I always every time I see mason play, like no matter where he is, I just kicked myself because we really needed that style of player throughout. And I, you know, just the competitiveness, the ability to score, the ability to get other people's skin, the physicality, the ability to get to the net, you know, just it I always kicked myself about that one, especially because he'd been with us for so long and it comes so far. And yeah, that's one I always, I always interesting. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. I thought maybe the cadre one would have been one, but yeah, that was that was obviously a tough one. I try to try to put salt in the wound here. But no, I appreciate that answer. What was it like working with Lou? Like I'm sure you learned so much from him. He's like a vault though. He doesn't give you anything, right? He's the best. I love Lou. And he and I still to this day, like we were, I just saw him a couple of weeks going when we played in New York. He's a, you know, I, he's just a special person. I think every, you know, there's obviously, he's had tremendous success three Stanley cups. And, you know, I, I thought did it so much for the standards in the culture when he came into Toronto. Just he teaches you that every single small detail is going to matter. And at the beginning, it's, it's a lot. And for the first couple of years, it was, it was a lot. Every single thing, the way the guys wore their tape on their socks, the, you know, guys chinstrap just being undone in the American league and warm up. Obviously the grooming was a, was a big topic. But then you see the impact over time. And I think people on the outside, they they can, they make fun of it a little bit and they question whether, you know, whatever was 2015, 16, whether it was going to have an impact. But it was, it was massively important. And then over time, you started to see how much you really, deeply genuinely cares about your development and your family's development and then how much you're taking care of your family and you're like, it just, it's, it's a, he's a really, really special person and, and being able to work for Lou is the most fortunate experience that I've, I've had in my, my whole life in terms of someone to work for. I think the Sue Greyhounds, I wouldn't be anywhere without them. They gave me a massive opportunity when I was a little kid, then again, to run the team and just I wouldn't be here today without that. But in terms of mentorship and, and being able to learn Lou, you know, it's, it's the most, the, the most special mentor that I've ever had by far. You've mentioned the Sue a lot and reading about you a little bit, I had no idea you were the stick boy. I think your grandfather coached the team. So it was kind of like a fabric of who you are and then you become the GM. You mentioned all of a sudden when you were really young, your name, you know, it, it started appearing a lot more and like this kid that's coming up in the ranks, he's young and a lot of that was analytics. And I think, you know, you were one of the first guys at least, maybe for, for guys like us that had heard about analytics and where the game was going. And I also, I was reading, you were the youngest certified agent with the NHLPA at one point. So where did analytics kind of first come on to your radar and become something that you would, you know, look to, to kind of implement moving forward in what you do? Yeah. It's on my background at all. The bat, the way that I grew up was in scouting and player development. And then things just being with a smaller market, smaller revenue team in the Sue. It would, you know, we weren't going to be able to compete in terms of, you know, geography and location players, the best they were from the sewer from Northern Ontario wanting to come there. So and we weren't going to be able to match the scouting and scouting budgets and such of some of the other teams in the league. It's just, it's just the way it is, right? So it was, we had to start to find our edge. And for me, you know, I, I had to stop playing when I was 14. So it was, I didn't have the playing background that I could lean on. And I was fortunate to have like the scouting and development side, but just needed to give myself more edges. I didn't have, you know, that I couldn't lean back on my playing experience. So it was trying to find different ways to just improve our decision making. I'd always had an interest in, you know, the type of my grandfather, we, you know, we would, he was a huge base, big coached hockey, but he loved baseball. So you start to follow that and you see that and you say, okay, how can some of this stuff maybe be applied to hockey? And so then, you know, as the 2010-11, there was, you know, even a little bit prior to that, there's still be more and more stuff pop up about, you know, different things that you could track or measure that could maybe better predict the player's future performance or team's future performance. And, you know, you start to start to follow that a little bit and incorporate it into your decision making a little bit. It really helped us in the sue and just are drafting, you know, trades and help to, you know, help to separate us that way. And it really just became a something that stuck, but it's a key part of what we do because I think it provides a lot of value, but it's really not my actual background, but it's usually important for us, just in terms of trying to break down players and predict, you know, help them as well, like in areas that they lack. I think it's become way better lately, just in terms of the quality of information that you get. And it's really just trying to help players and areas maybe that they're weaker or that they've been undervalued elsewhere and just help you decision making, help your program as much as you can. So when you talk about analytics, like a guy like Anthony Matto, 32 goals, it was a one-year deal at two and a half, or a trade for Chena Cobb, are those guys where you're seeing underlying numbers like there's more there or is that more just you're watching their play and it's not necessarily analytical. The mantle wants crazy because we talked last week about mues calling them in the summer and saying, you're going to score 30 this year. So obviously, you guys as a group saw something and he's just lived up to it. The way that we, like I think it's most successful is that if you bring a guy in and the analytics department really likes him, but the guys have reputations or the coaching staff doesn't like him or the scouts don't like him. It creates sort of a polarizing view internally. So what we've tried to do is over time is to try to find the different players that are either strong or poor on the scouting side or the data side and then bring it all together into one and then try to identify the players that are strong in both. And then go to Dan and the staff and say, here's what collectively we see as the player strengths. Here's what are going to come up as the weaknesses and that we can work on and help with. And Dan especially whether it was acquiring Anthony Anthony, the key had Todd Nelson as a coach before when he was coming up in Detroit system. So Nelly knew, knew Anthony and what he was about. And then it was, you know, he's coming off of the torrent ACL and we just thought we had a great opportunity for him. We obviously dug in on the personnel side and he's always been someone that's been strong analytically. That's always been the the the tail with Anthony. And then this year, it's just I think great, you know, he shared that with Dan and kind of said to him and it was a path for how we could get him to be as successful as possible. And our hope is that guys like he, Chinacov, we talked about Ryan Shay already and others like that. Other guys throughout the league see that and just then we become a place where players when when they when they need that opportunity to find themselves, they want to come and play for it's for penguins. And the play was Sid and Eric Karl and Gino Crystal Tang, but that there's going to be a plan for them to to really get the most out of themselves, especially when they're in those situations. How accurate are analytics compared to, let's say, baseball, because it's baseball's like so stagnant. It's like offense versus defense, and that seems like there's a lot of variables in hockey that come into play. And also like, what would you label as maybe the like the best like two or three analytic things that you can actually value a player on, because there's probably a lot out there that's smoking mirrors, and do they vary for the position, whereas like one would be way more important for a forward compared to a defenseman. So what are the names of the ones that you take the most serious? And last, I know we're getting deeper to the questions here, it's like fucking inception. Are these being taken by like robots, essentially, the analytics or are these human humans that are saying, okay, I saw him make that play, check it. So the answer to the baseball question, baseball is just still like probably a decade ahead, just because of how much they've added to it, right? And you guys succeed, like there you will now, like even to be able to measure to the like a tenth of an inch on whether the ball's inside the strike zone, side of the strike zone, the exact spin on the ball, every single pitch, whatever pitch there, like slider, fastball to everything. Yeah, like the reaction time down to the split second of how quick and outfielder responds, like it just, because it starts from the same spot and ends in the same spot, like what doesn't end in the same spot, because the every sequence begins and it begins the same way, and you're able to capture everything, you're just able to do so much more, and then you see if you, you know, behind the scenes and the player development stuff with them, what they're able to do in terms of like motion, capture and all the stuff they put on players. It's like the, you guys would have all done it in your careers, the EA Sports and one get the whole body suit on, and they do that for developmental reasons, it's crazy. In hockey, I think what we're really, you know, trying to measure, and I think it's become a lot better, like whatever it was 15 years ago, was, you know, shot attempts or coursy and, you know, like what you really want to get into is a guy able to make plays and produce offense and is he able to make stops and have a strong impact defensively. And then it's, you know, what goes into all those things and a lot of that comes from players and coaches and that's you're taking different things and as they've been able to provide us with more in terms of the player tracking, the puck tracking information, where everybody is, what we still lack and, and you guys would, like, would all relate with this so well as, you know, they, they doesn't capture the player's stick. So there's stick detail that they make disruptions on the puck, do they make, are they able to make stops? Are they able to win pucks when they're in puck battles? Or check, you know, measuring the, the ability of someone to win, win a, like, get in on the 4-check, win it. Do they take good roots? Are they actually good at it or not? Are they just really fast and skate and get there and hit people, but they never come up with the puck. It's trying to find everything we can that can measure guys that are able to, to impact game offensively and defensively. And so now it's getting better in terms of the expect, I think the internal modeling of the expected goals for and against their getting stronger because you're able to add with the, with the tracking stuff into it, but then it's continuing to measure and get feedback from the players, feedback from the coaches about everything that matters and try to take all those little elements of the game that you guys know from playing for, you know, decades and decades and try to see, can we measure it and does it really matter? And so that's really what we've tried to do and then we'll try to, and now you can tie it all back to the tape so you can actually see it. And so it's not just this, these are the numbers, it's, these are the numbers, but here's the player actually doing it. And so you can study it, you know, deeper and, and so to me, it's taken, it's gone leaps and bounds the last number of years and, but it's, it's, it's, it's, when it all comes together with the coaching staff, the player personnel department, the player development department or and you can actually look at it and see it through, through film and tape or, or then you're looking for it when you're out scouting and that, that to me is the, is the key step when you can bring all of it together. The fact that you were able to retain that question just speaks volumes. I was testing of you as a person, but for, for, for you, and I remember, like, I had Dale Townland. That was a great fucking question. Was that that was unreal? It was like the nine hour meeting he had with Shanee when he got hired in Toronto. Awesome. Awesome question. Thanks, Kyle. I was, I was just wondering, like, I had Dale Townland as a GM. You just super intense, like, after every loss, he's pissed off, banging stuff. And then like the next day, you'd see him at the golf course and he was the happiest guy in the world. So just kind of wondering what your vice away from the rink is, what makes you happy? Oh, I've seen some of the clips in the press box. You could fuck the chuckle water bottle. Yeah, you don't want to be a water bottle around him. Yeah. I tried to cut back on that now. My son sits with me for a lot of games now. It's just so I've, I can't be throwing stuff. How old is he? He's on the Stevie bottom. You're going to get Tommy John surgery at the Toronto. Yeah. Yeah. He's taking a seat. Lou was probably doing that too to stay so calm. Maybe the gummies. Lou. Lou, Lou, that's as calm as it gets in game. I'd be just still looking. Wow. Yeah, I don't, I don't have that. I don't think I'll ever, I'll ever have that. I don't know about any advice I could give on, on staying calm away that my family helps because, you know, my son cares deeply about whether the team wins and loses my daughter. She's the youngest and she's really the boss of our whole family. She doesn't. She doesn't care. She's more interested in Paw Patrol and painting and, and, you know, blueie. So there's not a her scooter. There's not a whole lot of the doesn't, doesn't phase her. Yeah. You guys watch Louie. What's Louie? Louie. Louie. Louie. Oh, what's Louie? And it's an Australian dog family. Yeah, it's a. Okay. Right up your alley. Yeah. Okay. Honestly. I mean, my, my, my access took all my dogs or maybe I'll get into it. Oh. Oh, like, I think in this, I, I've, I've seen Dale at games and after, after games and I think, you know, you, winning is nice. It gives you a bit of a reprieve from the, I think it's the, the impending kind of despair of losing. It's just, yeah. That sticks with you forever. It's hard to, it's hard to get by, but it's also kind of drives you and keeps you rolling through it and, and pushing to continue to get better. But yeah, it's, it's, I mean, it sucks because you're up there. Once you, once you go sit there and the game starts here, there's not a, there's nothing you can do. You're, you're watching your, you're, like, your players and staff try to get it done and, you know, and it's, yeah, I think everyone responds to it differently. Do you guys ever have to remind yourself because when you do watch the game from up top, how slow it is and how, like, you know, how open the ice is, do you ever have to remind yourself, okay, that lane wasn't there for that long, you know? That's almost every time I hear you're talking to yourself the whole game, right? You think, you think, you think the players can hear you or whatever it is, but always all the time. It's, yeah, it's always him. It's, it's easy from up here to really like, you can see everything, right? You're, your way up top. Everything is very clear. That's why when they put me in games, Kyle, I felt like I was in fucking saving Private Ryan, the opening scene. I was like, what the fuck is going on out here? It's easy to say I've probably don't have Tom Wilson, you know, with, like yesterday, the last two games against Washington, you know, the defense was about to get the puck and you're like, oh, this is an easy play. You don't have Tom Wilson bearing down on you at full speed and try to run you through the, run you through the wall. So it's, yeah, it's, it doesn't, it's not often forgotten, I've talked, no, no, all right. We got a rowback last question, use code, check out some rowback.com, 20% off this week, this week, CHIC, L, E, T, S on R, H, O, B, A, C, K dot com, check it out now off for that to Geno Malcolm. Maybe you'll get a discount on next year's deal, go back kind of a two part question. One, signing sit again, would, would even you say sit, I'll give you more than 8.7 and, and second part of the question, you were so young when Sid and OV came into the league and we saw Sunday, whether it's OV's last game or not against Sid, what do you kind of remember but when they came into the league and what they accomplished and like first seeing them as rookies and witnessing like the greatness and not even having a clue, we'd see over 21 years what we got to see. All right, I asked the double questions around here with, sorry, sorry. I know. Triple. Yeah, Sid. I mean, Pat Risson and I, I'm sure Pat is warned him to do something other than 8.7 as well, but, well, we'll sort, yeah, well, sorry, yeah, that's, we'll sort through all that. Actually, it's a, in Sid's first year in the league, I have a friend of mine, he's like high up in Scouting with Vancouver now, we went to the university together and he's a, he was a huge Ebb and Tenoiler's fan. So in Sid's first year after the draft, after the log, we drove from, we went, we, I went to Brock University in St. Catharines. So we drove from St. Catharines to Pittsburgh and back for the game and it was Sean Horcoff at a hat trick in the game and yes, so Terry and snapped after that was it driving back after the game. We went right from St. Catharines to Pittsburgh and then right back and then so I, I was always like to, not so much with our games, but when I go to another game and I'm driving after I love to listen to the post game show, living in St. Catharines, the Buffalo post game show was always the best on WGR was unbelievable. The fans would call in, but on that, on that day there, we were driving back and they have Terry and press conference live. God. And so it's every time I it's yeah, I saw in then every year, you know, the anniversary, they was like Jan early January in my mind. So they comes up every year as the as the anniversary of it. So replace it. And then every time I see Sean Horkoff, I think of that game. And then we have Will Horkoff now. So that we sat way up in the nose leads at the igloo. And it was very nothing. I'll never forget it. So what a barn to what a barn. I think I know you guys did the great tribute for flower this year bringing him back, but I think every year you should bring back Terri and wit on the day that that happens today, fishing game Sean Horkoff. Would you throw me in an exhibition game? Yeah, we could do that. We you could definitely play in the nailers exhibition game next year. It's got the key to the city. No, I own an easy hotel team now, the Greensboro Gargoyles. I've been going against. I'll be going against the nailers. The nailers are the others are looking good right now. They are. Yeah, they locked into, you know, the sack. They won the division. And so they're just gear enough for playoffs. Yeah, I love it. The wheels, the best Charlotte Billy Higgins. And one dog, another little fun fact boys. My mom went to Brock University. So same alma mater as Kyle. We've got a lot of connections here. My last question is is Shani like your relationship with him and working with him. We talked about Lou, like what was it like working with him hand in hand? And you mentioned like, you know, not for not being a former player, I guess, of that stature. So having to lean on other things. You know, I'm sure that that was a guy who helped in that situation. Shani obviously gave me the opportunity in hiring me out of the Sioux in 2014. And then when he and Lou parted in 2018, the ability to become a GM in the league. So for that, you're always grateful, right? And I think, you know, and looking back on it, obviously, when we went in there, the team had come out of the lockout. And in the cap era, and they were contending team before then or in the mix before then, right? And, you know, and then it when we came in there, they'd been the playoffs. I think, you know, once in the since then, and just think he allowed the hockey staff to do their job, which I didn't really expect from a former player, you know, that, that, you know, he was going to keep all the other stuff away. And I think that was a massive help for us in looking back on it. And then obviously had the experience right of going to Detroit and and winning. So that was always, you know, that was certainly a positive for us there, right? So, you know, that's it's just unfortunate. We couldn't couldn't get it done. That's really the only way I think about it now. Well, Kyle, thank you so much. This is awesome, dude. Thank you. We appreciate it. And, you know, good luck to pass them about the Olympics and going through that whole process was much of an awesome, but we'll have to get you on again and yeah, and congrats on all your success. And if Philly can get two more points in their last two games, we are so fired up for that Pennsylvania battle. That'll be something pretty special for you and for all the fans in hockey just to see that battle go down again. So I saw earlier, but a month ago, Biz jumped, he's, I think he's, he's on the Philly bandwagon. Hey, Kyle, he's on 15 different teams. You just don't want him on yours. You don't want him on a dating show. I'm like the bad charrette, but for, for hockey teams. And, and last thing I want to say to the fucking assholes who created all those crossbeats to the abs rumors, just enough, enough. Just, just, Kyle, what's the focus? One man behind those, we got, we got your back, Kyle. Appreciate it, guys. Hey, good lot of congrats on everything. Dubas stock. Thank you. Oh, I should, Kyle, I should mention one more thing. I mean, keep, he sent us the DM for anyone listening. This was, he's running a social account. This is what business DM to Kyle. Yeah, this is ridiculous. Come on the podcast. If you don't, I'm selling all my Dubas stock, kidding. I wouldn't sell just, I mean, where is the great block? He did. He did after that. All right, we'll see you. See you guys. Thanks, Kyle. Does anyone out here like coffee? I love coffee. And if you're like me, you need to get involved with Stella blue coffee. It's more than just great coffee. It's coffee with a purpose. Introducing now, we brew to rescue a nationwide campaign using proceeds from our new ready to drink cans to fund 1000 pet adoptions this year. Our guy, Big Cat started Stella blue. And in mind, he thought of helping out some animals, some adoptions for pets that need to be loved in life. And now Stella blue is helping helping out with that. Every can you crack open helps a real pet find a real home. Simple as that made with 100% Colombian coffee. Each 11 ounce can deliver smooth, drinkable energy with a boost of protein. Yes, you get protein in your Stella blue coffee. It's available in espresso cafe mocha and espresso sweet cream. Both have been sent to my house. 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Download the jack pocket app. Sign up using code Puck two and new customers who deposit $5 will get $10 in lottery credits instantly. That's right. Get $10 in credits instantly when you deposit $5 on jack pocket. America's number one lottery out gambling problem called 1 800 gambler in New York called 877 8 open wire text open why 18 or older 19 or older Nebraska 21 or older in Arizona. Jack pocket is a lottery career and not affiliated with any state lottery eligibility restrictions apply void were prohibited scratch offs up to to availability new customers only deposit minimum $5 for $10 and non withdrawable lottery credits that expire in seven days ends 5 3 26 at 1159 PM Eastern time terms at jkpt.co/deposit 5 based on 2025 iOS download data collected by sensor tower. Thank you so much to Kyle Dubas from the Sue Greyhounds, the president and GM of the Pittsburgh penguins, what a run it's been for that guy. Pittsburgh Philly is a must. We need that. I'm sorry, Columbus. I'm sorry, Washington, but that will that will be electric. Guys, don't think quick. We'll play his last game in the national hockey league tonight. What a fucking run. The greatest born American goalie of all time of pizza master couple clicks for this guy gets to finish for his hometown favorite team New York Rangers. That's going to be one that I think we need to sit down. That's a full that's an in person sit down. Hopefully a couple beers, a couple of zaws and chat about an amazing career from a guy who everyone loved to. So shout out Jonathan quick. I hope he gets the win in his final game. The abs have clinched the president's trophy. This is their fourth president's trophy. The leader is the wings was six. The abs have only been around for 30 years. So kind of crazy like I, I didn't realize that this is already number four for them. So what how many just Washington have three or four? Not sure. The second most is they're now tied with the Bruins and the Rangers with four. So watch original six Washington. I know. Yeah, you're right. Washington just three. Do they have three? Yeah, I think they have three during all of the first round. I think all of them. And they didn't win their cup the year they won the president's trophy. That's wild. They won was the last team to win the cup when they won the president's trophy. The black hawks, I think in like 1213, 2019, 15, 16, 16, 17 for the caps. So the caps would back to back and then got their cup after not winning the president's trophy. The president's trophy curse. And did I think Chicago got it murdered. You say I think it was the short and season to 1213, I think. Yeah. So it's not even in a full 82 game one for them. The nugget. Oh, how about their coach on the IR? Oh, Bednar. He took a puck in the eye broke his orbital bone. He's whole shit. He didn't even travel with the team. Man, what a warrior. You guys an animal, dude. Guys, an answer here who they're bringing in to replace him for the game. You know, David Carl, because he doesn't want to leave Denver. So he's just going to coach that game. All right. I thought they were bringing back their old goalie, patty, wow. After you got the knife at his back. Guys, I got to make a quick statement. A brutal oilers lost to the LA King's one nothing. And honest to God, it might cost Boosh the Norris. A one nothing game, penair. Just a complete Bacardi Boosh play at Blue Line gives penair in a break [BLANK_AUDIO] I swear to God, like that will be people be like, I was it and they're trying to win the division. Boost the horrible turn over Pernarin scores, they lose one nothing. But on the bright side, I don't want to win the division. I don't want to play Utah. I want the ducks. The ducks, that could, that could be a, I'm not gonna say sweet, that's a five gamer. That's a five gamer. Leon's out there skate today with pod calls and he looked great. I'm trying to get some more info from the soft monster. He's kind of cold. He's he's icing me right now. You dig, you dig we could get a Kucharov activation. I know Kuch messed the whole season, but like a, like a Kuch activation where like all of a sudden Leon gets like 50 points. Well, I, oh, yeah, for sure, but I also think if they get the ducks, we win the first two at home. And then it's like, oh, well, we don't need to put them in yet. You know, I don't know. Maybe he's like, I'm good to go. I want to play from game one. But if he's 50, 50, you start game one without him. You win. All right. Trying to get another without him. You win again. The ducks are one and five in their last six. They're young. Cutter Goat. The A scares me. He got his 40th the other day. But the King's might catch them. I, I watch out for that. Oh, oh, no. Oh, no. We'll get the Kings. No, but I don't know. They're going to be tough for them to talk to you. Take more wind out of your sales. And I think the ducks would, but hey, listen, the ducks got good goal tending. And actually, they're, if you look at their back end, like they got some big guys back there. They got a group of truba. They got the Jackson, the comb. They got Carlson. Like they got a pretty good. That's that's the worry, the butcher, because I think it's bad as he feels after all these neon need disgustingly dirty hits. He's bound to throw another one. Yeah, yeah, he's got the memory of a goldfish. There is no defenseman on Utah that could maybe hit you with an elbow in the jaws you're flying through the middle. You know, you're not going to have an economic David and all of a sudden you're, you're out. So knock on wood there, but he might never be able to come to Canada again, but look. And for be cut an extension, multi your contract extension, make sense what they're doing there, what they're building very special, but give me the ducks. That about wraps it up. There's a lot left this week. We'll be able to kind of break through everything Friday. We'll be together Thursday, boys, recording together. Thursday night show. So that's fun. Final thing. Rory. I don't know how I don't know how I didn't just kind of see this one coming. Maybe it's because I'm an idiot, but he got the one. He finally got the one. You would have thought like now looking back. Like obviously he's going to get another one. Like now it's a complete free reign. He almost kind of blew it again. I had another double on the front nine, a three putt double. It was crazy. But Rory, Rory McElroy wins the Masters. I was sick as a dog falling in and out of sleep. I'd wake up, see a pot. I'd fall back to the very big time bummer of a master Sunday. But I do think Rory McElroy now has six majors. I think I think 20, 25 majors to win four. Then he went 10 years without one. And now he has two of the last five. I think he's going to get like 10. I'm really. Yeah. He's he's my favorite golfer. He's my favorite. I thought John Bailey was. I said that. No, I liked John daily. But I said this last time when they were trying to give him shit. I think he just won the Masters. And then they try to give him shit about the driver he was using. And Sheffler was using the same one. They they go after McElroy so much the media. There's shit heads. He's an opinionated guy. They ask him questions. And he gives their his answers. And he's dealt with a lot of bullshit, including the writer cop. That's my guy, man. He's a dog. I'm a fucking McElroy guy. And I put him on my Mount Rushmore golf in two of the spots, two to four. Well, like every sport you got seven favorite teams. But did you guys hear what he was doing the couple weeks before instead of playing in the tournament? I did. This is what the golf fan. I can't believe he was catching grief for this. It's crazy. Wait, why was he catching grief? Because they're fucking all over him. And that's why he's a goat. I don't play. I don't think every player can do that. Right. Only if you won then you're a member. No, so what's weird is you're not even I think it's just they just pick if you win. You remember like some guys who win become members, some guys like Patrick Reed. He won. No, I don't think he became a member. I so for people who don't know. Instead of playing, I think it's the Houston tournament, the Texas Open, it's called Antonio tournaments leading up. He basically is like those tournaments suck. So what I would do is I would drop my daughter off at school. I would hop on my jet. I'd fly to Augusta. I'd play it all day. I'd hop on my jet home, pick up my daughter and eat dinner at home. And people what's wrong with that? Exactly. I think people brought up that at one point he said he felt bad about the carbons and flying private. Oh, just just if you if you're flying private, shut up. Don't ever say that because you don't care. Nobody cares. You fly private. I'm not too worried about the goddamn environment. Because we got Leo caprio fighting fighting for for the environment. Meanwhile, he's fucking 10 to 10 super models on PJs all day long. So wait, so if he if he flew commercial to Augusta, people wouldn't have been mad at. I don't know. No, I think they they thinking that all he backed out of these tournaments and he got he went and got an advantage going to play Augusta to prepare. But he they give this guy shit about the way he wipes his ass about everything they ride him. And that's why he's my goat. You could have tiger. You could have tiger drive through a fucking rally. Oh, school zone driving over people like the Mista Mista lady from happy go more and they'll make more of a fucking or deal about how he jumped on his jet to drive to Augusta. It's crazy. Wait, I heard it was is it Nick Faldon, the old golfer, he won the master. Yeah, yeah, last guy to do it back. Oh no, Tiger did it back to back. He was saying that if he if he wants to go play them at Augusta, he still needs to play with a member. Like he can't just call and be like, Hey, I'm Nick Faldon coming to play. You have to play with a member. Yeah, I don't I don't think that's the case for Rory. Maybe it is. I know Jimmy done Jimmy done a true legend in life. This guy. He was a part of a firm during 9/11 and he was going to he went and did a golf qualifier for the US mid am and his whole firm passed away and in the tragedy of 9/11 and what he's done with his life since his incredible. He's a member of Augusta. I don't know if Rory goes with him. I don't know if he's able to play alone. But anyone in the world who enjoys golf would be doing the exact same thing. I'm pretty sure that if you ask people who play golf their dream day would to be take a private jet play Augusta all day and then go home. And these aren't even people that are trying to get ready to play the masters. So for anyone giving him shit on that. You're a clown. You're a complete goon because it's going to play. Augusta on a private jet and then flying home to pick up your daughter. And he's also a comedian because then they asked him about why he didn't have Irish representation at the master's dinner dinners because he said he wanted people to enjoy it. Like this guy is a comedian. He's come. I've lived in in cart of whales. The food there is shit. Everything comes with potato chips. Well, which date which is french fries to them. So there's not a lot of options over that. I mean, we just saw dominoes. There was dominoes everywhere when we were in northern on Keith. We had dominoes every night on a week long golf trip. I think the food and London's pretty good. No granted. That's not I really good. But the complaints were from your guy Marty mush Keith. Like it's unfair. It's unfair that he gets to go play that golf course when the tournaments there nonstop beforehand. It's like, well, he won. And he's welcome there. And that's and he has his own private jet carbon emissions be damped. And he's going to go and play the golf course and get ready. And then he won again. So pretty legendary. I don't think he's done winning green jackets. The masters though. The masters is just something special man. Just clicking that on and getting to see it. Getting to be there one time. And now I feel like I know the holes. Truly legendary stuff. I felt bad for Justin Rose. That guy would have been the second oldest winner ever. He's lost in two playoffs. So you know what? There's another guy. Love the class he shows after he doesn't win. He wrote to all he signs off on Twitter. I'll go find it. Like like team rose and that I think it just has hashtag team and then it's the rose emoji which is kind of sick. Yeah. Um, and he goes. I think he goes something like air. I'll get it. Justin Rose. If you've seen his like van that travels with him everywhere. It's a spa. No, he better not. I've never thought of someone quicker than you when I saw this. I'm talking cold tub infrared, sauna, hydro, chamber, fucking you name it. He's got it on this van. What's it? It was like the tie Toyota or something. There's time issues in there. There's two tie women that the sit in the back till he's round done. They walk on lands at a tournament is the van is there ready for him. And he just takes care of himself is you'll be doing this an intermission of all playoffs, the TNT games. It's right here. He wrote. I'll just. keep knocking on that door. See you next year, Gus. The congratulations, McElroy going back the back. Thank you for all the sport team rose class. He's just I wanted him to win it bad yesterday because he kept charging on the back and he kind of collapsed. He had it at one point of the lead alone. Has he ever like he won the US open one time? Yeah, I know he's got a major, but there's has he ever had any controversy and he but in anybody say anything negative about him or is he just like the ultimate basketball ever? I just watched. He did a YouTube golf video. I forget with which creators, but he he seemed like the absolute man. Yeah. Maybe we'll get him on a bag looks pretty friggin good for 45 years old too. Incredible. The hair line hasn't moved an inch. A tie van walking around with you. Rose, maybe you're right. That's what he won. I think he won the Olympics. Yeah, he won a gold medal too. That's why I thought in Ryder, he's won a lot and he's like I think he's been the guy in Ryder. He was the guy who buried in the miracle of Medina when they came back and beat the US. He was playing Phil and he buried like a 50 footer on the 17th hole. And that's when I started hating Phil Phil was clapping for him. We're in the middle of the biggest collapse in golf history and Phil's clapping for him. Yeah. Yeah. Come to live in 10 years. Great job. Justin. It was sickening. And then we lost that one. He's giving him his roses. He was giving him his roses. So not our best masters break down boys. I'm wounded. I'm wounded. That was a long pod. We gave him everything we have. Thank you, buddy. Yeah. Thank you guys. Pizz. What's your big game tonight? Toronto? Who? Toronto Dallas. Okay. So you're going to get to see Dallas up close. I'm going to see him in person. They could have had rontan. They should have had rontan. They had rontan. But Mitch Martin. I saw him in the hallway. They saw Mac. Don't me. Dad. Him up. Said great job against good as your warrior. Go. Let's go, boys. All right, boys. Great. I love you, guys. Great pop. I love you. Love all you guys. Love you, boys. Love all you guys. Love all you guys. Love all you guys. Love all you guys. Love all (upbeat music)