Spirituality and Psychology

Good evening everyone. It's Dr. Nigro again with our next episode of Psychology Unplugged. As always another great week of speaking with a lot of you guys and if I have a responded to your texts or emails, I think I have. There would be a few people so definitely reach out to me again this week at the end of the episode. I'll leave you all the different ways you can contact with me. As always this is a very free, flowing, organic process that I'm doing this podcast and for those of you guys who follow the program, I'm working on a basis. I never really plan on what I'm going to talk about. So in New England over the past few days, Julien I just got back to our house today in Ducksbury because we had a really bad Norrister that caused widespread power outage throughout a lot of Southern Massachusetts. It's a lot of damage, a lot of power wires down. Thankfully we're able to stay with our really good friend who's a family nurse practitioner and a police called Pine Hills which is about 15 minutes from Plymouth. So it's amazing how dependent we are on electricity. So it's it was scary. I think the winds were up to 88 miles an hour but we're back and we have power so I'm able to do the show. Yesterday I had a very privileged opportunity to be a guest on what I think is an amazing individuals podcast that'll be broadcast on multiple social media channels, all the different platforms for podcasts, YouTube, what not it was a video interview and his name is Michael Anthony and I would definitely encourage anybody who has any association or relationship with any form of trauma to reach out to him as he has a trauma survivor and he calls himself a trauma warrior and I think he does some amazing work and it was a great opportunity. We talked about neuropsychological evaluations, cognitive therapy, diagnoses, the importance of getting an accurate diagnosis, really also about a sense of hope. So his his model is called Think Unbroken and he am very fortunate that he's going to be a guest on psychology and plugged in the upcoming weeks. I think it's a great opportunity. We're also going to have Dr. Riego on Arrego who is a psychiatrist who just came out with a book that I'm finishing called Frontal Fatigue about the impacts of social media on the mind and the brain as well as a few other guest speakers so you don't have to just keep listening to me every week. So Jill and I went for a walk on Duxbury Beach and if you ever get to Duxbury I would definitely encourage you to walk on the beach and somebody growing up in the Midwest from Chicago you don't really have that obviously you don't have the opportunity to walk on an ocean beach but it's a very powerful experience and I think when I first started the podcast one of the I alluded to you some of the different topics I was going to touch on and today is is going to be a very different topic it's clinical and non-clinical in the sense I guess I'm just going to put it out there we're going to talk about spirituality and and God I was born and raised Catholic that was the foundation of my belief system Catholic grammar school all boys Catholic high school which is the oldest Catholic high school boy all boys Catholic high school same paths in Chicago got a great education although my first day of high school I was nearly on a three-sided ruler writing the our father on the board because I left and the brother didn't think that that was appropriate and then by the end of class there about 15 other young gentlemen doing the same thing and nearly on a three-sided ruler for about 40 minutes is a very uncomfortable thing so Einstein one of the most important questions he had was he wanted to know how God thought I think John Lennon wrote the verse if you want to if you want to give God a laugh tell her your plans and I think as I've gotten older not that old but older I've I've become more spiritual and I think that there's a an important distinction between religion and God a higher power whether he referred to him as God a la any various forms the relationship with with with a higher power can be an incredibly important and relevant connection and looking at the work of John Bulby who did a lot of the research on attachment theory and seeing God as an attachment figure much as like we are attached to our parents our children our spouses that God in and of himself whether it be a he or she or however you conceptualize them I think to this day I still go back to the childhood of God as being this old wise man with the long beard and this is I think it's just kind of how I visualize him so this is in no way a sermon this is a no way a lecture this is a no way and indoctrination but I go back to you know my mother you know who an incredibly strong faith in my father as well and but mother also said you know question everything and I've mentioned this I think it did episode on that but you know see let's go through the incantation and the benedictions our father who art in heaven hallowed be thy name thy kingdom come thy will be done on earth as it is in heaven give us this day just give us this day our daily bread and forgive us our trespasses and lead us not into temptation but deliver us from evil I've said those prayers and and I was really connected when I watched spring scene on Broadway 12 we know like it bruise of your out there give me a call love to me you have a give a cocktail but I I've realized I've gotten older and in my clinical work with patients especially those who are grieving those who are depressed those who are anxious even those who are psychotic or or delusional many individuals do have a strong connection and affiliation with God but you you juxtapose that with an Amazon society it it's or culture it can be very confusing you know you know there's there's I say my prayers on my way to the office every morning I can have this you know method I go through and I think there's a there's a great power if if that's relevant to the individual and something that they need I am in no way a biblical scholar but I think I have a strong acumen in the the scripture and you know for at least from from a Christian perspective I don't think it really matters if you're Christian you're Greek Orthodox you're you're Cranie Orthodox you're you're you're Buddhist whatever a connection to something bigger than ourselves can be very frightening but it feels very empowering and I think frightening is in the sense of I put it out there but I don't know where it's going and I don't know when it's gonna happen and God is a great displacement vessel you know both from a positive standpoint saying hey I'm gonna put it on the altar and I'm gonna believe that good things or my wishes will be fulfilled at some point and it could also be a negative displacement in the sense of I blamed God for all of my troubles so again not doing much therapy anymore it's like okay why is a Neurol psychologist talking about God and I'm talking about God and spirituality from the sense that it's it's much more common it it's it's it's it's part of the ties that bind us it's also part of the ties that divide us where I believe your religious right my religious wrong your religion says this my religious says that you can even get into like cults you know we're worthy you know look at Waco Texas or Heaven's Gate you know where you know Armageddon is coming and so I think the fear of God especially the fire and brimstone version of this this this authoritarian figure that that meets out pain and punishments or sends locusts and plagues and whatnot versus a forgiving and an all-knowing and understanding God. But I think it really comes down to a personal relationship. And I was talking with Julie and our great friend, Kathleen, who we're staying with, that I don't know how people get through the day or can even navigate all the nuances, especially the difficult parts of life without having some connections to something bigger than themselves. And I remember this quote, it was anonymous. And it's something that I always stuck in my mind. So I'd rather spend my life believing in God and die and find out that He doesn't exist than to spend my life not believing and find out that He does. So I think we all have this heuristic, which are this schema, this mental template, this thumbnail template of who we think God is. But if you look at God as an attachment figure and an attachment theory, this is the word psychology and spirituality can kind of connect and coincide because attachment is, again, a secure attachment is this even goes back, it relates a lot to borderline personality. A secure attachment is if mom leaves the room, I'm not going to freak out because I know she's coming back versus an insecure attachment out of sight, out of mind, I'm going to freak out. And this has been heavily researched, extensively researched. And I would encourage you if you want to learn more about attachment theory, look at the work of John Bolby. So Julie is a very spiritual person and it gives a lot of comfort, a lot of a lot of peace to not be passive recipients on this on this train of life that that things are just bestowed upon us. I again, there's a huge fan and a Meyer of Bruce Frankstein as an artist and as individual. One of the best songs I think he wrote and he woe thematic imagery of Christianity throughout a lot of his music on the devil's and dust album. The song Jesus was normally sung is an incredibly beautiful and articulate song and he approached it from the secular side. He approached us as Jesus as just somebody's boy and as Mary as a mom who's just losing her boy. So I would definitely encourage you to listen to the lyrics of those of that song because it's incredibly powerful. But we are a thing of very polarized society. I don't think it matters where in the world anybody lives. What do they always say? Don't talk about religion, don't talk about politics because those are the things that I don't know why that that define our belief system. Those are the things that I think if there's discord, it's like, what if what I've been told to believe is wrong? And I said, I've said this at nauseam, blind faith is anything is dangerous. But if you get into the world like psychotherapy and you know guys who follow the program, I'm a staunch advocate and proponent of cognitive therapy. But I think sometimes patients need to incorporate spirituality into their journey and treatment. I think they need to realize there's somewhere else I can put it that doesn't exempt people from saying, okay, well, I prayed. So now I don't have to worry about going to therapy. I don't take my meds. I don't have to do that. But you know, looking at God is not not something to be feared, but is something to be associated and connected with and attached to because once you decrease that attachment, you move further away from the source. You move further away from what you are trying to manifest. Wayne Dyer has done a great job. I think I've mentioned him, or started to mention a lot more frequently because you and I, every time I take her car, we take her car, she's got the CD's on. And you know, he refers to God more as the source. And again, I said this is not a sermon. It's just something that I think is relevant to not just say, okay, I'm going to be honest. When my dad was alive, anytime he would come to Mass chooses, I would get up, we would go to 7 to 30 or 9 o'clock Mass. I would go out to breakfast and I would hold his hand during the, you know, saying of the piece, give him a kiss, say, "Love you, pop." Because I knew that was important to him or I would go back home in Chicago, I would do the same thing because I knew that was important to him. And my father really was more like following like the doctrine. And as I've grown, I realize I can have relationship with God. I'd pull my car up to a place in close to the ducts we call Brent Rock and looking at the ocean and just talking. And I think formal prayer and the way that we're indoctrinated into a faith can sometimes make us feel less than that. You know, I've talked to several patients, you know, we have a church in town and sometimes I drive past that church and I feel like, oh boy, why have I not been going? Because again, I'm not knocking religion in any sense. I think at the end of the day, my foundation is Catholicism, but I think as I've grown, my relationship is a much deeper and a spiritual level. And it's something I think people have moved away from, but I also think it can be something very automatic. It can be very automatic and just saying, I said, the incantations, the benedictions. It's not about any one religion in and above itself. It's simply about having a relationship and the attachment to something higher and bigger than what we are. Because I think if you look, you know, if you look, I think I think people who are atheist, you know, that's a, that's still a belief in something. Even if you're agnostic, that's still a belief in something. Whether you shun religion or dismiss it, I think if you, from my perspective, you know, if you're talking about, like, you know, someone says, like, why are you depressed, or I say, why are you depressed or why are you anxious? I don't know. That's not an answer. Same thing. Like, you know, I'm not going to push you on this, but why do you have no spiritual? I don't know. I think that that's an ignorant response of not exploring something deeper than among ourselves. So when you think about like the universe, it has no beginning and no end. Even if there's multiple universes, it almost blows the mind of like, how does this, you know, but then I think of it, think to myself, like, okay, we can date the world back the earth to a certain period of time, you know, X number of billions of years. And I think to myself, like, what do God just wake up one day and decide I'm going to create something? You know, so I have my own questions that if I could have a sit down with God, I'd love to be able to ask them those questions, but, you know, I've said this before, like, what I do through the podcast and I do through my work every day as a neuropsychologist and an educator and advocate, somebody who's outspoken is trying to create a sensible awareness. But I was, again, walking out of the beach with Julian, just seeing like the ocean and, you know, we're talking about the tide and just looking at these rocks. So many rocks just like flew like onto the beach, you know, but during the last nor Eastern, like, how long have these been here? And Wayne Dyer, we were listening, you know, talked about like, recorded time goes back like 13, 1500,000, 15,000 years or even longer. But the earth has been here so much longer before. And I think we have a very myopic view of what life is and, and I, not trying to rock the boat and again, no one's belief system or ideologies are inappropriate or incorrect. I think they're inappropriate and problematic if they're used for self-serving purposes and they're used for the purpose of self or other destruction. Yeah, I think that's where you, there's that misinterpretation of what spirituality isn't of itself. So, you know, why chose this topic? I really don't know. I chose because I know I mentioned that the spirituality was going to be something I was going to broach and I'm trying to broach it on the most broad level. This is not a, this is not conversion radio. This is simply, you know, an exploration into our belief systems and, and also viewing spirituality as a positive coping mechanism and another resource, even though you may not get a response, another resource into dealing with ever psychological or mental health issues that you or a family member or loved one are struggling with. What is the harmony if it can help you? And you know, from a therapy perspective, I found, you know, again, not doing that. much as I said, sometimes you can connect with people and that's what they need. That it's okay to cry. It's okay to go put it on the altar. It's okay, but it's not okay to just simply do that because part of therapy and part of treatment is you have to do the work. Not just say the prayers, not just say the benedictions, not just say, you know, I put it in your hands, God, although I think that is very relevant. But there's also the expectation that we do the work that we have to do to the best of our ability and pray that God gives us the strength for today because God only gives us the strength for today. He doesn't give it, he doesn't give it to us for tomorrow. We only have the strength for today and I use the analogy sometimes when people are feeling so beleaguered by what they're dealing with. I said, Jesus, you know, the epitome of peace. The gardener, good somebody, he got down to his knees and said, God, if you can take this cup, I'm good with that. Look at that pass. Even he showed humility and fear. And I've knowing people's backgrounds and their religious affiliation and whatnot. They'd be like, oh, yeah, I get that. Maybe I'm not comparing myself to some ideal that is so outside of my realm. I said, yeah, he has for the cup to pass. So if you feel that you can't do that or you need extra help in your spiritual person, look at that as an example. So again, this is not a, this is not about conversion. This is just about opening and broadening the field of psychology. Maybe neuropsychology, I don't know, but more about psychology, you may have read things like about the God particle and stuff like that. I think, you know, we try, you know, my training is as a scientist, but I can't always disconnect the humanity that is connected to what I do in profession. Julie, you want to say anything? All right. Julie's too busy making steak for dinner, but I know Julie's a very spiritual person and, you know, spirituality and, you know, my father being my best friend, my mother as well, I mean, get being able to get through those losses without having a sense of connectedness. I don't know how he could have done it. I really know and I'm being as raw and honest as possible. I think the one thing that I've learned that I'd love to share with everyone and it's something that I've wrestled with myself as a human on this planet. The ruminations that we think, ruminations are like intrusive thoughts. Ruminations are the old recordings that we play over and over again when we're thinking about our past, when we're thinking about maybe something that didn't go our way, something went wrong. We made choices that, you know, weren't the ideal result and, you know, regret or whatever. What I really learned about God is that God is good and God is love. And I'm not trying to be preachy either. I'm just sharing what has helped me. I don't belong to any spiritual commune or anything like that. I'm just very individual in my relationship with spirituality. But the one thing that I really learned that really hit home for me is that we beat ourselves up so much. All you need to do is say, forgive me once you never have to say it again. It's done. God forgives you right away. Of course, you could argue that what do I know about God? I haven't been to heaven. I haven't met him or her. I'm just saying that it made me feel so much better to say, okay, I'm acknowledging this, you know, I am sorry. And we live in a world where apologies aren't always accepted. And we live in a world where a lot of people hold a lot of resentment and hang on to old wounds. So I think as you as individuals, if you can kind of latch onto that, be like, you know what, I'm sorry. You don't even have to say you're sorry exactly to a human being. But as long as you're saying sorry or like sending love to a situation, that's a very challenging thing, but it also can be a very rewarding thing. Oh, the most important Einstein Albert, I think I said this already, Albert Einstein said, one of the most, I'm a huge fan. One of the most important questions we can ask ourselves as human beings is whether or not we live in a friendly or hostile universe. If we go through life thinking people are out to get us, that's the kind of life we're going to have. And we're going to attract more of that. If we go through life and try to transition into, you know, is this person really against me? Or is this am I just looking at this from a, like, a different, maybe not the best way to look at something? Basically, that's really all I wanted to say. I just was kind of listening as I was cooking, but I think that's it. Well, thank you for your pop in and just want to be clear because somebody left a comment, appreciate all the amazing comments. I refer to Julie as a sweetheart at one of the episodes. You haven't those of you who haven't been following the program and recently started Julie is my wife. So if I refer to her as my sweetheart, that's because she's my wife. So a little different twist and variation from the topics we've been talking about. Other suggestions that and from several people about, can I talk about neurofeedback? Sure. Can I talk about autism? Yes. Can we talk about this a common one growing up with a borderline parent? All great topics and those are the things that I really appreciate because I want to do this program about what people want to know about. And I do this very ex-tept, buriniously. It was just, you know, walking on the beach through the rocks. As I said, I don't plan these programs. I know I do them on Sundays, but I don't plan them. But I just wanted to, I guess, I guess the whole point of this, it's an invitation. It's an invitation to either connect, reconnect or explore a relationship with something bigger than ourselves. Independent of what you call that something bigger. Um, you know, one of the, you know, one of the most complicated books I ever read. It's a big book. It was written by an ex-catholic nun. Now, anatomy and physiology, that's hard organic chemistry, not pretty easy physics, easy, um, molecular biology, easy neuroanademie neurophysiology. This was the origins of God. And I can still picture, I saw I have the book in my office. It's, it's, it's a white book. And it was a fascinating book, fascinating about the origins of God. As you're looking back at, at a hieroglyphics of people, this, this was preverbal nanderthals that, that there was drawings, acknowledging something up above. And, you know, it, it, again, one of the most complicated books I have ever read. And I'm not sure I've really got all of it, but I think I got the, the, the gist of it. Uh, I wish there was a cliff notes version, but, uh, the woman who wrote it, I'd know her name. Did an amazing job at, at really tracing the origins, not necessarily of religion. As I said, people confuse religion with God or any kind of higher power. Uh, religion can be used to unite and religion can be used to divide. God can be used to connect and God can be used to blame. So again, um, it came to me walking on the beach as you're looking at the, the, the, this vast ocean that leads to somewhere, you don't know necessarily where he, you know, you know, topographically, you know, obviously Europe's on the other side, but still just looking at this, this, this amazing body of water and realizing something bigger than ourselves has to be out there. That we are not alone in the universe. We are not individual souls. Um, yeah, I know if it was John Steinbeck, uh, Woody Guthrie, who, who said this? Um, it was one of the, one of the two of them who basically asked the question, or I think it was Carl Young. Yeah, I think it was, it was young who said, are we, maybe we're not individual souls. Maybe we are just part of one larger soul. So again, this episode was just to talk about attachment theory and invitation, a revisitation. Um, if you're a practicing clinician in the field to realize that sometimes patients who have a spiritual connection really can't benefit from it as an ancillary and sometimes really important part of their therapeutic and treatment process and journey. So until next time, uh, feel free to contact me through psychology today. Uh, email me a psychology unplugged at outlook.com. Call me text me. Uh, my cell phone number is 617 750 941 Eastern. time. This is a privilege opportunity every Sunday to do this. Again, a lot of you've asked can you can you do more? I will do my best for the grace of God. I am inundated with neurosurgery, not only just from work, but from doing the podcast and a lot of you guys flying in. So I truly appreciate it. I hope Julian and I are doing the best we can to create awareness, sensitivity, knowledge, inspiration and most importantly hope. But again, I would encourage you definitely check out Michael Anthony. He'll be on the show soon. I guess that's it. Until next time, take care of yourselves, take care of each other, question everything and again, become independent of the good opinions of other people. Take care guys. Talk to you next week. [BLANK_AUDIO]