‘Spider-Man’ director Destin Daniel Cretton

This is Fresh Air. I'm Tanya Mosley. At the end of the last Spider-Man movie, No Way Home, back in 2021, Peter Parker makes a choice. To save the people he loves, he had everyone on Earth forget he ever existed. My guest today, filmmaker Destin Daniel Cretton, picks up the story years later in the latest Spider-Man Brand New Day. Peter, played by Tom Holland, is still Spider-Man, but years after everyone he loves has forgotten about him. And he's living alone. When strange things begin happening to his powers, there's no one in his life who knows him well enough to even know something is wrong. What is happening to me? Did you miss me, Spidey? I'm losing my mind. I am totally out of control. I gotta fix whatever this is right now. That's Tom Holland as Peter Parker in Spider-Man Brand New Day. And it opened with the biggest debut in box office history. Director Destin Daniel Cretton came to Marvel from a very different kind of filmmaking. His first job out of college was at a group home for at-risk teenagers. He turned that experience into the 2013 film Short Term 12, which featured young actors Brie Larson, Rami Malek, and Lakeith Stanfield. Cretton went on to direct The Glass Castle and Just Mercy, about attorney Bryan Stevenson, who was a member of the New York Times. He was also a member of the New York Times. Bryan Stevenson's work Defending Men on Death Row. His Marvel debut was Shang-Chi and The Legend of the Ten Rings, the studio's first film with an Asian lead and an Asian director. He also created the Marvel series Wonder Man. Destin Daniel Cretton, welcome to Fresh Air. Thank you. Okay, 23 million people went to see this movie the first weekend. And a movie like this, I mean, it has enormous expectations. There are, of course, the studio expectations because this is a franchise. It's a brand. And in many ways, these stories have to carry each other from film to film. But there's something in particular that you have to bring to the film as well, your sensibilities as a director, knowing that you're stepping into an established story. Was there a moment or any time during the beginning of the process where you said, this is the film and this is my stamp, my place in it? There were a few moments in the development process where I felt like I now understand the heart of this story. One was in the writing process. We were trying to really understand what the internal story was of Peter Parker. And I was reflecting a lot on my 20s when I left university and when I didn't really have a real direction in life, when a lot of my friends were going off to other things. And it felt like a lot of people were moving on without me. It was easy at that time to feel completely alone. That was around the time that I was working at that group home for at-risk teenagers. And when I think about that particular time in my life, I don't know, I just felt like that was. Peter. That was this stage where you're looking back at the things and the places that you've been and you don't know how to define them to move forward. And so to be able to look at Peter and watch him redefine kind of the pain and the things that he's been through and actually use them as part of the things that make him strong was a very therapeutic experience. I actually want to play a clip. It's a scene where Peter Parker, as we said, he's been erased from the memory of everyone who loved him. And he crashes a house party thrown by MJ, the girl he loved, who was played by Zendaya, and Ned, his best friend, played by Jacob Batalon. And neither of them knows who he is. It's the first time we kind of see them all together. And it's a real trippy experience because, you know, of course, he knows and we know the whole backstory, but they don't know who he is. And Peter is, at that moment, unbelievably lonely. And he loves these two people so much, you know, he's been following their lives on social media and he's at this party and he sees MJ and she speaks first. Let's listen. God, there's like 50 people in our apartment. Statistically speaking, that means at least two of them are sociopaths, which is kind of cool. Nice flowers. Oh, they're a housewarming gift. Really? Yeah. Oh, okay. Most people just brought beer and chips. That's very nice. I'm MJ. I'm a, I'm a Maynard. A Maynard. Oh, you two don't know each other? No, I'm a neighbor. Friendly neighbor. That cough, that's a scene from Spider-Man Brand New Day directed by my guest today, Destin Daniel Cretton. Of course, the friendly neighbor. The friendly neighbor is a play off of the whole Spider-Man franchise. But this is kind of what you're talking about, about that, those growing pains of getting to the next stage of life. Because, of course, this is the device where they don't know him and that's a big part of the storyline. But it's also something that is very ordinary, too, where you grow out of your friends at a certain age in life. Maybe the people that you have kind of been on the journey with, you're now kind of, you know, separating. There's a certain grief. And it also just feels so, to me, so relatable. At that stage in life, I remember being in those parties. I remember being surrounded by people who all seem like they have it together and seem like they are having the time of their lives. And I remember certain times feeling very alone in the middle of it. But it was, it was really, it was actually really fun to explore that. Yeah. And, I mean, Tom playing awkward, there's just nothing better than watching Tom play an awkward scene. Yeah? Why? How? Yeah. He's just, his comedic timing with his awkwardness, I think, is one of the most brilliant things about him. It's so relatable. It's not just comedy. It's just like a feeling and situation that I, I just feel like I've been at. Okay, I'm going to ask a few specific questions about the film. make their way into the story, as opposed to starting with a mandate and working backwards. Let's talk about this time that you were working in this group home. There's a story that you tell about how cocky you felt as a young man when you got this job. You thought, like, these kids are going to love me. I'm going to be, in some ways, a savior. And you got a rude awakening. I sure did. What happened instead? It was a job that really threw a lot of things back into my face. It was by far the most difficult experience that I had up until that point, and also the most rewarding. I grew up on Maui. I think I didn't realize how sheltered I was until I was working at that group home. I just was not exposed to the type of experiences that these young people had gone through. I also wasn't ready for the people that they had become because of their experiences. These young teenagers were, in many ways, much more mature than I was. But then they were also very, you know, they had very real, real pain from their past, just right under their skin. The surface that they were always dealing with. So it was very quickly a very humbling experience for me. I want to actually play a clip from the film, and it was your second film. And Short Term 12 is the name of the facility in the film. And the kids stay there until they find somewhere else to live or until they turn 18 and age out. And in this clip, the scene is Rami Malek. He plays Nate, a new staffer, on his first day. Is he a proxy for you? Yes, he is. He definitely is. Okay. Yeah. And he is talking with Brie Larson's character, Grace, who has been working there for a while and shows him the ropes. Let's listen. These are the files on our kids, if you want to see what kind of crap they've been through. How long do they stay here? Supposedly less than a year, but we have a few that have been here a little over three. We just keep them until the county figures out where they're going to go next. Tom, go brush your teeth. Remember, you're not their parent. You're not their therapist. You are here to create a safe environment, and that's it. Got it. And since you're new, they're going to try and test you, see what they can get away with. So just say no for a while. No. Okay. You kind of got to be an a**hole before you can be their friend. You're going to be fine. That was Rami Malek and Brie Larson in the film Short Term 12, directed by my guest today, Destin Daniel Cretton. When you took that job, what were your aspirations? You know, I graduated with a communication degree, and I was making short films. I would do a short film once a year, and I would just save my money. So I worked at a group home for two or three years, and I taught high school video production. I worked at a hotel putting up their media, their projectors and things. I had a lot of odd jobs to pay the bills. I shot wedding videos. But it was all really a way to just pay the bills while I made movies as a hobby. Okay, because you were very clear at that time that you wanted to make movies. I was very clear that I wanted to keep making movies as a hobby. Okay. I wasn't really chasing it as a career. I feel very surprised and lucky to be where I am. I tried moving up to L.A. early on, but I found it to be a little too overwhelming. And so when I moved back to San Diego, where I went to school, it was also an admission to myself that I was not going to make it in the industry. I was going to go back and just try. And so when I moved back to San Diego, where I moved back to San Diego, it was also an admission to myself that I was not going to make it in the industry. Cretton. We'll be right back after a short break. I'm Tanya Mosley, and this is Fresh Air. This is Fresh Air. I'm Tanya Mosley, and my guest today is filmmaker Destin Daniel Cretton, director of the new movie Spider-Man, Brand New Day, which just had one of the biggest opening weekends in box office history. He also directed Just Mercy and Shang-Chi and The Legend of the Ten Rings and created the Marvel series Wonder Man. His breakout film was short-term 12 about the staff and the teenagers inside a short-term group home drawn from the two years he spent working and one after college. Do you find that there are themes you keep coming back to that they're, you know, these films are all different, but that there might be a thematic through line of something that Destin is kind of always trying to work through and come out on the other side? Yeah, not consciously, but it is weird how when I step back and analyze, everything that I've worked on, in many ways, I feel like I'm exploring the idea of family in different ways. And, you know, that idea of family, I think, extends to whether you have a regular family with a mom and dad and kids, or whether in short-term 12, there is a family that is created out of circumstance. I think in, even in Spider-Man Brand New Day, the idea of family and community is really at the core of this movie. And I'm always interested in what happens to a person when they are outside of that family and community, and the importance of that connection with people who truly know who you are, that you can fully connect with, and that you can fully be yourself around. To me, that has just always remained the most powerful aspect of my life, is staying connected to the people who really know me. Do you think that, I think that probably there's something all of, lots of people can relate to, but is there something specific about being an island boy, and then stepping off the island, and you being kind of. Separated from your family and experiencing this big life outside of them, that is your story, your origin story? Yeah, when I first left the islands and went to college in San Diego, it was really hard. It was really hard. The first year, I was, you know, it took everything in me not to just leave and get on a plane and go back home. I didn't realize. It was a lot of things. When I got to California, I didn't realize I had an accent. I didn't realize at that time, because everybody was like, what, what, what? So. They didn't understand you? Even the way that I'm talking now is sort of like, I kind of learned by default to change the way that I speak, just so people could understand what I was saying. But there were, you know, there were a lot of things that I was naive to. Growing up in the islands, I didn't really ever feel like an outsider due to my ethnicity, ever. I, you know, I felt like I had feelings of being an outsider just because I was a bit of a nerd and I was homeschooled at some point for three years of high school for other reasons, but never because of my ethnicity. And that was something that when I got to California, I remember the first time I was like at a bar and some dude just thought it was funny. I was like, I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I don't need to call me Bruce Lee. And I was like, oh, that's a, that's a first for me, you know? And I, um, so, and, and I, I also, not only growing up in the islands, I have five siblings and we're all very close and family has always been very important. But for me, that time away from family really helped solidify how important my brothers and sisters are to me. Um, and they have always been my, my biggest strength in life. You mentioned how you'd go see movies with your dad and your mom was, you called her, you know, a little hippie mom. I think you referenced that she was sort of a hippie mom, but she also was a mom who was very particular about the media and other things like that, that you consumed. How, how did that work in your household? My, my mom was very kind of anti-TV. Um, she would allow us to watch certain things on, like we could watch TGIF on Friday night or, but most of the time. What's TGIF? You're talking about the home video? No, it's like that run on Friday nights that had Family Matters. Oh, okay. Yeah. Like a bunch of different family themed sitcoms. Yeah. Watch like four in a row or something. Yeah. Um, but it, it, it was, it was actually looking back really wonderful. She, we lived in Haiku, a small town right next to a pineapple field and lots of open spaces. We grew up in the same property that my mom grew up on and she would just force us out of the house. Um, and because of that, we had to find our own ways of, of playing make-believe or making up plays or making up dance routines or fight choreography. And then we'd perform it for my mom. And we used to do that when I was really young. And then around 11 or 12, my, my grandma loaned me her VHS camera. And I got, that's when I got addicted to making movies. Um, and so my mom wouldn't let us watch TV, but she allowed us to make as much stuff as we wanted. So that's when I started making movies with my siblings. And honestly, the process has not changed. We, we would make a, we would spend all day making, making a short film or a commercial or whatever. And then I'd put it together and then we'd have a little premiere, but the premiere was just like my mom or my mom and dad. Um, but that, that feeling remains the same. I'm still like kind of buzzing and have those, those butterflies in my stomach before I'd show it. And then my mom claps and, and it's like, that's the full process. And that's still the same creative process that I go through. Your grandma sounds like a pretty special person. I saw you post a series of photographs with her holding that big VHS camera from back in the day. Um, grandmother's love. I mean, it's such a special thing. It also, sometimes they can see things in you cause it's so pure that they can see things in you that, um, that others can't see. And did your grandmother ever tell you things about yourself? My grandma was incredibly supportive of all of us. She was a nurse her whole life. And her, her husband was, my grandpa was a cement Mason. Um, and even though in one breath, they would say things like get a secure job, make sure like, just try to just get a County job was the whole get a County job because it's, you know, you'll get good health insurance and you have job security. But, but my grandma also had always wanted to be, a fashion designer and she would make my mom's dresses when she was when my mom was go to go to junior prom like my grandma would sew her dresses she would also do these beautiful um dresses for all of my mom's dolls so when when when she took me and my siblings on kind of our first big trip off island i was in the fourth grade and we went to california and we flew into it was it was my grandma and my grandpa and then at that time it was my youngest sister didn't come so it's five kids and and i don't know how they juggled all of us they would get those adjoining rooms they and we'd all sleep together and then in the morning they would they would force us to go to the bathroom so that we don't pee our pants when we're and then we would just get on a bus and and they would they took us um to to universal studios um that was the first time that i was was able to see the the behind the scenes on how movies were made um i i saw jaws et i saw that stunt show for um for water world the water world stunt show yes yep and um and the whole time that that i was experiencing that she she had that vhs camera that she allowed me to use for the first time was on this trip and so i will i became the person who was documenting the trip and my grandma kind of encouraged me to do that that that trip really defined me um after universal studios we went to she took us to disneyland and the same thing it was my first time kind of seeing oh my gosh there are thousands of people and i'm like oh my gosh there are thousands of people and i'm like oh my gosh there are thousands of people and i'm like oh my gosh there are thousands of people who make this stuff that i love who and and then when i got home it was just all of that inspiration came back with me to maui and that's when we started making movies non-stop If you're just joining us, my guest is filmmaker Destin Daniel Cretton, and he directed the new movie Spider-Man, Brand New Day, which is in theaters now. We'll continue our conversation after a short break. This is Fresh Air. This is Fresh Air, and today I am talking with filmmaker Destin Daniel Cretton, director of the new movie Spider-Man, Brand New Day. His breakout film was Short Term 12, about the staff and the teenagers inside a short-term group home, drawn from the two years he spent working in one after college. He grew up on the island of Maui, one of six kids, homeschooled by his mother, who didn't allow comics in the house. She didn't allow comics in the house? Nope. The lore is you had one little beat-up Spider-Man comic. Yeah, that was more from my—my grandpa had some comics. And, of course, my friends, you know, right around the time I was 10 was like—that was like the Todd McFarlane days. And I remember—I remember those Spider-Man comics and sneaking—I have a memory of sneaking one that was potentially at my grandpa's house or it was from one of my friends. But it was like—that was Spawn and Spider-Man were kind of the big thing when I was like 10 or 11 years old. Do you know why your—why your mom didn't want you to read those, or you and your siblings? I think there's—I mean, my—I think she was—she was—anytime she would see something that was violent, she wasn't into it. So fighting wasn't cool. Sexiness, probably. She wasn't into that. She wasn't into that when I was a kid. So—and it goes hand-in-hand with her being pretty protective of the—the things that we would consume in any type of media, TV, movies. But, you know, as you—when you're a kid, you find ways to—to sneak. Your Marvel debut happened in 2021, directing Shang-Chi, the first Asian superhero. And this was—you said this was— This was the first time in your professional career that you walked into a space and everyone was Asian, just about. Describe what that was like for you and what that meant for you at that particular moment in your career. Yeah, it was one of those things I didn't really know I was missing until it happened. And when I—when I stepped onto set once, you know, once all of our—our stunt performers were there and all of our actors were on set, and it was kind of that first day on set. It—it was—I mean, it was cool. It was just like this—there was something about set that just felt homey, that felt so comfortable, to be able to have conversations with people that fully understand what my grandma is like and what—what growing up in a—in an Asian culture is like. So I didn't know that that aspect of myself could be— could be a part of my filmmaking. You know, I always sort of compartmentalized my upbringing and my culture and growing up in Hawaii as sort of a separate thing than—than my experience as a filmmaker until—until I was on set for Shang-Chi. It was very special. Maui has been through so much, especially over the last few years with the fires and everything. And there—there is a— a film program, though, helping filmmakers. Tell us about this. When I was growing up on Maui and I had this passion for filmmaking, I didn't know anybody who did it. I didn't have very many resources on how to develop the—the skills to—to do this thing that I loved. And so it was always a dream to create a—a safe space for young people to explore this world of filmmaking. And to take young people through the process that I have grown to love so much. In honor of my grandma, we created the Hisako Film Lab, which is a nonprofit on Maui that is specifically for young filmmakers growing up on the islands. And throughout that process, the—the students are exposed to professionals who are all my friends who want to give back in some way. So we—at the pitch process. They're pitching to professional screenwriters. Screenwriters help them learn the process of writing a screenplay. We have professional editors talk to them at that point. And—and then professionals are—are helping judge their movies in the end. And it really is one of the joys of my life to watch these kids start in a place that often when they come in, they've never done anything like this. Before, many of them don't have a real community or friend group that they connect with. And many of them have never spoken in public in front of people and—and maybe never wanted to or never dreamed that they would. But over the course of this—this process, by the end of it, I've seen so many of these young people grow as—as people grow in their confidence. And hold the microphone on stage in front of a community at the end after their—their movie is played and answer questions to everybody. And you just—you just feel the pride. Oh, I know. I can imagine. It's—it's wonderful. If you're just joining us, my guest is filmmaker Destin Daniel Cretton. And he directed the new movie Spider-Man, Brand New Day, which is in theaters now. This is Fresh Air. And today I am talking with filmmaker Destin Daniel Cretton, director of the new movie Spider-Man, Brand New Day. You know, in addition to this theme of family in your films, I'm going to talk a little bit about the film. There's also something about young people who feel alone and have had to deal with the loss of loved ones. And that theme is in Short Term 12 and Spider-Man, Peter and the young villain in the movie. Also in Shang-Chi, he went through the same loss and violence. That also seems like that's a pretty—pretty strong through line. Yes, I agree. There were times in this—in shooting Spider-Man that my director of photography, Brett Pollack, who also shot Short Term 12, there were times where we were in the middle of shooting a scene and we looked at each other and just felt like we could be on the set of Short Term 12. Oh, that's so good. It's—and that to me is really the amazing part of doing a movie like that. Like this, that can get so big on many levels. But really, it's—it's the scenes—it's the scenes between two characters sitting on a bed, sharing—sharing in their—in their pain and in their grief. It's—it's those scenes that to me are the most powerful. And I felt—you know, I felt very lucky that—that— this particular story was able to hold both of those things. Is there a reason that you—you keep coming back to making films about that? I mean, maybe—maybe this is true for many artists. The experience, I think, of my—my childhood was made up of so much joy. And also quite a lot of pain and hardship. The experience that I had having a—a very complicated relationship with my—with my dad who passed away a few years ago was—was an experience that many times left me feeling very isolated. And alone. But—but really, the—the—the thing that carried me through was my relationship with my siblings. And they have always been there when I was at my darkest moments in life. And so, I don't know. Somehow, that's probably just ingrained in me somewhere. And it just—and it comes out subconsciously. when I'm writing or it is, It's a story that I personally don't feel I will ever get old examining in different ways. Can you share more about what you mean about the complicated relationship with your dad? I hear you talk about your mom a lot, but not so much your dad. I think in many ways, most of my movies have something to do with my dad. My dad was a very passionate man. I don't like to diagnose people, but I think we all suspect that he was undiagnosed bipolar on some level. He was very passionate, very wonderful to be around, very loving in moments, and could also be very dark and very angry. It just depends which dad you are going to get on the day. I grew up, along with my siblings, learning to navigate those emotions, those real intense peaks and valleys. When my dad would come home, I learned to become very sensitive to what state he was in. I have found over the course of my career that I have so much to thank from my experience with my dad. I am, A, so grateful that he really was the person who instilled in me my love of movies. I mean, while my mom wouldn't really let us watch TV late at night, my dad, who was a big action fan, and he loved Clint Eastwood, he loved Schwarzenegger, he loved Stallone, I would hear the sounds of guns and explosions going off downstairs late at night, and he would be watching the latest. I would sneak downstairs and pretend I was going to the bathroom, and then I'd go and hide behind the couch and watch him as he's watching The Running Man or Total Recall. I have some of my fondest memories with him. We watched The Fugitive together in a theater, and that was my first PG-13 movie, and it was so exhilarating. When we came out of the theater, I mean, this was so my dad. We came out of the theater, and my dad just raised both fists in the air and screamed, The Fugitive! But that's the type of passion he had, you know? And so I have those memories, but then I also have a dad who was often depressed. I didn't understand it was depression at the time, but who would often come home and just want to sleep or not talk. And then there was. There was also the angry side, who could be very intense and very scary. So aside from my love of movies, my experience with my dad did other things for me. It really allowed me to not be afraid of any person, no matter how intense they are, no matter how quote-unquote powerful they believe themselves to be. I feel like nobody compares to. The experience that I had with my dad. But it also allowed me to subconsciously create this skill of feeling other people's emotions, which I find I use all the time as a director. The moment an actor steps on set, I feel like I just know what state they're in, and I know what they need. I've learned how to bring down. Very intense situation. I do feel like he was a very wonderful and troubled man, but I am so grateful to have had him as my dad. Destin, thank you so much for this conversation. It's been great to meet you and great to talk about all of this. Thank you for having me. Such a lovely conversation. Destin Daniel Cretton, his new movie, Spider-Man, Brand New Day, is in theaters now. Tomorrow on Fresh Air. When it comes to. The production of drones, electric vehicles, lithium-ion batteries, and solar cells, China is ahead of the U.S. China may also be benefiting from the war in Iran and President Trump's tariffs. Is America's global dominance over? We talk with Evan Osnos about his latest New Yorker article. I hope you can join us. To keep up with what's on the show and get highlights of our interviews, follow us on Instagram at NPR Fresh Air. Fresh Air's executive producer is Sam Bray. Our technical director and engineer is Audrey Bentham. Our engineer today is Adam Staniszewski. Our interviews and reviews are produced and edited by Phyllis Myers, Anne-Marie Baldonado, Lauren Krenzel, Teresa Madden, Monique Nazareth, Thea Chaloner, Susan Yakundi, Anna Bauman, and Nico Gonzalez-Whistler. Our digital media producer is Molly C.V. Nesper. Roberta Shorrock directs the show. With Terry Gross, I'm Tanya Mosley. I'll see you next time.