Special Guests Jason Blum & James Wan; Disclosure Day Reactions; Tribeca Festival Preview

[MUSIC] Welcome to ScreenTalk, Andy Wires Weekly Podcast, bringing you up to speed on the latest goings-on in Hollywood. I'm Ann Thompson in LA. And I'm Ryan Latanzio in New York. This week we'll take a look at the upcoming Tribeca Festival, which kicked off on Wednesday. And where next Tuesday, we're going to host a live screen talk with special guest Ronan Faroe. And on today's podcast, please stay tuned for our interview with Blumhouse and Atomic Monster Partners, Jason Blum and James Wan, who are chortling with Glee over their two breakout horror smashes, obsession and back rooms. They offer a lot of cool insight into what inspired this YouTube box office phenomenon that everybody's talking about. Stay tuned for that later in the episode. Meanwhile, Ann, you went to see back rooms, finally. So we're going to talk about that. We're also going to parse Martin Scorsese's surprising dabble in AI. And we've both seen Steven Spielberg's disclosure day, which is still under embargo. So we really can't say much, but we can look a little bit at what its Oscar chances might be. So, Ryan, what movies might break out of Tribeca? Most of the films in your preview don't have distribution, I noticed. Most films that Tribeca don't have to see. They're called world premieres. Yes, and there are some 100 world premieres. As well as some familiar movies from Sundance, like Gail Dottry and the celebrity Sex Pass, which I actually didn't see, and which SPC bought. And so I'm going to catch up with that there. But in terms of the world premieres, a couple of movies that I think people will get people talking. There is an excellent documentary by Jeffrey Schwars. You probably know this filmmaker. He did a film about Vito Russo. He's done a lot of LGBT documentaries. Yeah, he has one called Mindshaft, which is about the murder of a variety film critic in 1978 that inspired William Friedkin to direct cruising. And it's also. His name is Addison Varyll. Huh, I don't remember that. It's not a story that I really knew either. And the funny thing is that this guy, Addison Varyll, he was killed by someone who formerly worked at the NYU hospital, who actually was an extra in the exercise. So William Friedkin already knew him. And then when this murder happened five years later, he was inspired to want to shoot cruising on location in New York to the eye of the gay community and right along the rise at the beginning of AIDS, hitting New York City. There's also an indie filmmaker that we all really like. Sophia Tacal, who did Always Shine. She had a brush with Studio Filmmaking with Black Christmas and has directed some TV episodes. She's back to narrative features with a sort of backstage drama called Act One. And then finally, there is a killer films movie that I'm really interested in that I've heard great things about. But the last day from Rachel Rose, and this is another modern retelling of Mrs. Dalloway. We have Clarence and Anne. And it's with Alicia Vikander, Victoria Padredi and Wagner Mora. Ooh, yes, I saw you right up of that. It made me want to read it. See it, it made me want to see it. Yes, so Anne, so you finally went to the back rooms over the weekend. I'm dying to know what you thought. I actually really enjoyed it. I went to a cinema arc. No, I didn't. I went to the Grove with my daughter. We couldn't get into any of the shows until 8 o'clock on Sunday night. That's how crowded and booked it was. It's like sold out everywhere. I mean, to get a good seat. We would have had to sit like in the front row or something. So we had great seats at the 8 o'clock show. And it was packed and it played really well. And we enjoyed it. I mean, I'm not going to make claims for it as the best thing I've ever seen, but it was perfectly riveting and weird. That's what I like about it. It's just like, you don't know what's coming. You don't know where it's going. You certainly don't understand what's going on. But that's, I think, it's lure. I think that's what's good about it. And the actors are very good. They did cast it. And people are talking about it as if it could be up for production design at the Oscars. I don't think that's true. But it has maybe at the indie spirits. It has great production design. Yeah, it does. You definitely should try. Yeah, I find it really vivifying that this movie is so conceptual and weird, as you say, and cerebral. And yet it is the number one movie in the country right now, which maybe is going to be unceded by Scary Movie 6 this weekend. I heard that I looked at a couple of bad reviews on that one. Not encouraging. I'm not going there. I'm not going to be. Not great, Bob. Yeah, so, but anyway, yes, there are scenes in the movie, especially the found footage sequences, I think are really, really strong. And those take you back to the Blair Witch Project. And it's also you're following Chiuatel at Chifur, who turns out to be a not very attractive character, actually. And his therapist is played by, we're not Ren's Fee, who we really like. And she becomes the person that the audience is hanging on to for dear life. But it's and it has a very unsettling ending. I have to say, it's stayed with me. I liked it. So, Ryan, what the hell is going on with Martin Scorsese and AI? It's a lot of people off this week by a story and exclusive from Brooks Barnes in New York Times. And Scorsese, I don't think has ever explicitly expressed like a dire opposition to AI, but one can refer that he has been against it due to all of his other positions. So, he's now revealed that he's using a generative AI technology from a company called Black Forest Labs to create storyboards, which are famously something that he has done by hand for many decades. You know, we saw Mr. Scorsese, we know about that process. And look, maybe he wants to save time. Yeah, well, I think so. And look, he's getting older and my theory maybe is that this company is giving him dome trucks of money. That's the theory of Bruce Riley. Yeah, one of the investors is his talent agent actually. And so, I don't know, he's putting together money for his kids. It's really fascinating how these quote unquote old filmmakers have become so obsessed with AI, our colleague Alison Forman actually wrote about this in Indywire, because when you look also at someone like Paul Schrader who's obsessed by AI and is really starting to incorporate it heavily into his process. And then meanwhile, you've got 20 year old's back rooms director, Kane Parsons saying that AI would basically render the art of filmmaking pointless and his counterintuitive to what he's trying to do. Here's my take on this. One, it's interesting to me that Jim Cameron, for example, has a lot of support for AI. He's looking at it practically. People in Hollywood who actually work in the movies who actually do make movies understand perfectly how AI can help them as a tool. They're not afraid of it. They're not afraid of technology. They recognize that technology can be helpful to them. There seems to be, and I want you to explain this to me where I am. There seems to be an enormous group of people who are just instantly opposed to AI in any way, shape, or form. And I do think it's interesting that older filmmakers are supporting it. Why can't Martin Scorsese and his old age use a little help with his storyboards? Well, this isn't a good example because Martin Scorsese creates his own storyboards, but I mean, the opposition comes from the terror around the threat to labor and the jobs that people are worried about losing or being erased from the process altogether. And then there's also the environmental impact of AI. I think it really comes down to concerns around labor more than creativity and aesthetics. But as you can see, the industry is overall softening to this notion. Maybe out of resignation. James Cameron is on the board, by the way, of this company that Martin Scorsese is backing the way that he speaks in these statements and the times. It almost sounds like he was sort of put up to do this. Well, all right. I don't know what the truth of the matter is. This is all supposition there. But on the other hand, Cameron's point is that he's saving people time and money. And the idea isn't that there would be less employment, but that things would get done faster. And it would be more efficient. And I can certainly support that idea. I think there's a disconnect between pragmatic reality and Hollywood and a kind of knee jerk opposition to AI across the board, especially in media. All right. So let's talk about disclosure day as best we can. If we very careful, it's embargoed until next week. We have both seen it. A lot of people have. The social reactions are out there. What do you make of the movie's Oscar chances? So if you look back at Stephen Spielberg's Oscar track record, it's kind of interesting. And he's one of those people, unless it's something like Schindler's, which famously won Best Picture. If he's doing sci-fi, he did get nine Oscar nominations for ET, including picture and director and everything. And close encounters got eight nominations and one craftwin. ET got four craftwins. As I'm leading in a special sound effects editing award, War of the Worlds got three craft nominations. So these are the three films that this movie most resembles. It belongs in the same universe. It's a sci-fi movie. It's a thriller. It's it's it's it's it's it's it's it's but remember the Oscars are much more friendly towards genre films now than they were back in those days. So I think it will contend for picture director's green play actress Emily Blunt, who gives a great performance cinematography, editing sound and score. There's a moment in the movie where I wished there was more of Joshua Conn. because the movie definitely leans into Emily Blunt. It's the two of them, but it leans into Emily Blunt. She gets all the histrionics, she gets all the big scenes. And then it could be John Williams' 55th nomination. I went into IMDB and counted. I didn't trust AI. I counted 54 nominations today in five wins. I wonder that Universal might be a little nervous just because, I don't know, I think some of the audiences that are really all about backgrounds and obsession, they might see this movie as being somewhat old-fashioned, but really it's because Spielberg is a classess. That's not the same as old-fashioned. He stays in his lane. He definitely doesn't go in and outside his lane. And I agree with what you're saying. This is not the Spielberg of AI or artificial intelligence or minority report. No. It's much more generously a crowd pleaser. And I would say even heartwarming. There is one Oscar category here I'm going to quibble with, which is a little bit, which would be best screenplay. I don't know that that. David Kep. I'm not sure about that one. This is the writer of Jurassic World, or Jurassic Park, whatever that last one was. And you know, many other things over the year. The years, the screenplay, I don't know if that is going to travel. I'm not going to argue with you about that. We'll have to see how well it gets received. And what the -- one thing you're saying about it, I question also what the younger audience is going to do with it. You know, whether they're going to embrace it. I mean, it's Janis Kyminski. You know, it's very much inside the Spielberg universe of how it's crafted and how it looks and how it sounds. It's not modern in any way. No. Janis Kyminski is not stepping outside of his own box. No. No. I mean, I like what he does, but it looks -- you know, it's familiar to us. And it will be very comfortable, like an old sweater for the older audience. The question you're right. The question is what the younger audience is going to do with it. Totally. And I think if you've seen a few scenes of the X-Files, as I have many times, the story is familiar, but that doesn't mean -- you know, like you're saying, it is comforting. That's not necessarily a negative -- It's revenue. It's revenue. You go for it. But, um, so Ryan, um, we're actually going to rush to embrace our interview with the Blumhouse guys in a minute. But what's your recommendation for this week? My recommendation is the Apple TV series adaptation Cape Fear, which adapts the Scorsese movie and the original movie "String Robert Mitcham," which is the novel, "The Your Executioners," into a sleazy, very violent, lured, southern, gothic, summer spectacle, where you can practically feel the sweat on you as you're watching it. And Amy Adams and Patrick Wilson play the couple who are lawyers that 17 years ago they put Javier Bardem perhaps wrongly in jail. Or I'm wrongly incarcerated him for a murder that he may or may not have committed. He's obviously a psychopath, but we don't know if he actually did this murder yet. I'm three episodes in. And now he is out of prison and fucking with them basically. And I don't know what's going to happen. But I, as a fan of those two movies, I, you know, this is kind of a trashy show I have to be honest. But it's great fun. I'm really enjoying it. And the creator is Nick and Tosca. But they brought all kinds of directors on, including Morton Tildum, as well as Trey Edward Schultz. So they have some interesting filmmakers. Those are good directors. You're making me want to see it. You definitely should watch it. Yeah. I need something right now. I'm feeling the, the cupboard is, is bare. Well, I may be a sucker for British World War II flicks, but I quite enjoyed pressure, which stars the great Andrew Scott as a tightly wound meteorologist who has to forecast the weather for bombastic Dwight D.I.'s in Howard, who's played with great fervor by Brendan Frazier. Before he can green light D.D. It's fraught. There's a lot at stake. Ketaly Conrad is also solid. So that's, I had fun with that one. That's out in theaters right now. I got to catch up with that one. It may end up being on an airplane, but I will watch it at some point. I'm sure it deserves the big screen. All right. So next week, just as a reminder, everyone, we're going to do a live screen talk with Ronan Ferro, a Tribeca. The event is free to Tribeca Pass holders at Spring Studios, which is the Tribeca Festival hub in Lower Manhattan on Tuesday, June 9th at 1 p.m. ET. So it's in the middle of the workday for some people, but hopefully you can check it out. We look forward to it. There's a lot to discuss with Ronan Ferro if I may be so bold. I have plenty of questions for him. All right. See you later. Bye-bye. We are delighted to welcome back to the podcast, Blumhouse Horror Myster, Jason Blum. I know you do other things, Jason. It's okay. You're still a horror Myster. I like horror Myster. I love horror Myster. Okay. And it's a pleasure to meet James Wolland, his partner and the creator of the Saw and in City of Spranchises. Understandably, you are both doing what's on the screen. Let's not leave out conjuring. I mean, if we're going on the franchises, that was the biggest one. Is that the biggest one, really? Wrote and directed the first new movies. That's the biggest one. Okay. All right. And then you're both doing victory laps over the two biggest horror hits of recent memory, obsession and back rooms. Back rooms brought in an A24 record of 118 million worldwide on its opening weekend. Woo! And on its third weekend of session, crossed the $100 million mark. And they both are from rookie 20-something filmmakers, Curry Barker and K-Parsons, which, who have both got their start on you to her. By the way, I love those names. Those are great names, I just want to say. Okay. Those are really, really cool, very cinematic names. Don't you think? Yes. Those are director names. It's like Luke Aguadadinho. I mean, how can you not direct great movies about that name? Or Guillermo del Toro. Exactly. Exactly. So people are, I'm just going to launch the discussion with this. People are saying this weekend's unusual box office marks an enormous sea change in Hollywood. Do you agree with that? And if so, how? Why? What could happen here? Jason, I'll let you take that. I think there is a sea change. I think that there is a new generation of YouTube creators, not just the two movies this weekend, but really five nights of Freddy's goes back to it. Not that Scott was a YouTube creator, but there's there's there's this fan ship and young people who've grown up primarily on their phone. And I think we in Hollywood have been trying to crack what brings them gets them off their phone and into movie theaters. I think we started to crack it. But I think what I hope is that the damn has broken and that we're going to see a bunch of what my favorite thing, there's so much talk about obsession in back rooms, but I don't think there's enough conversation back, you know, obsessions in original back rooms. There was a existing IP this that, but I don't think there's been enough of talk just creatively house strange and terrific and kind of cutting edge and weird these two movies are. And I think it's it's it they're so unusual. I think both of these movies 10 years ago would have been seen as just very specialty oddball movies. I don't think they would have gotten any kind of real distribution. And and and I think that there's in a really, really exciting moment for those of us who love to go see movies in movie theaters that there's a new edginess to these movies and the last thing I'll say and I'm talking too much about it is but there's a lot being made of creators. And segwaying to movies I think there's a specific reason why it's so much horror horror gives the men and women who do these movies much more control if you segway from YouTube to low budget horror, you have an enormous you maintain an enormous amount of control if you segway from YouTube to an $80 million movie, you do not have the control so you can't speak to your audience in the way that these folks are used to speaking to their audience and horror because it's very conducive to low budget allows them the freedom to do their to fly their freak flag and do these terrific strange movies. And I think it's really something to celebrate and there hasn't been a lot to sell there's there hasn't been a lot of innovation to celebrate in the theatrical marketplace for a while. And I think the recent memory is like barbenheimer and it's it's a great bar everywhere at once, you know, everything everywhere once that one. Yeah, 100% but but that was like a one off and this is like a more a bigger trend, but I agree with you completely. And I think that distinguishes the two movies just by my count is that obsession was definitely a scrappy or production that do. and have the level of financing and a 24 level support the backrooms did, even though they're both, you know, low budget movies. So I wanted to start with obsession. Jason, how rare is it for a movie like this to go up at the box office week after week? Usually the pattern is that horror movies drop a little bit, you know, this is not a horror movie. And or a lot, exactly. And this week not a horror movie, but we saw Mandalorian and Grogu drop quite a bit on a second weekend. It's, it's, you know, for horror, it's almost unprecedented. Everyone is like, very, I made a mistake of saying it's the first movie since ET to go up in consecutive weekends. It's the first universal movie since ET to go up from its second, from its, from its first weekend to its second and from its second to its third. I have yet to hear of a horror comp that went up two weekends in a row. I, I, it's no one said it yet. So that may be the first of all time. But I, you know, I, I, I got to be very careful. I think I don't know. You're going to be very careful, Jason, with you. Very careful. Jason, please. You could be offending me here. I need to check my side. I could. Yes, I, I was going to say, James, you might, you might want to interject there. James has more horror records than anybody else. So I don't know. I, you know, what, this is a very special one. I mean, the, the way obsession caught on with the public and it just kept growing. So it kind of started small first, right? Initially, you know, mainly with, um, Cari's fan base, um, um, you know, through all the little shorts that he had created. But then it basically crossed over into the mainstream. And the only way these movies could have the kind of success that they have, successes that they have is they need to cross over into the mainstream, right? And that's exactly what, um, obsession and back rooms did. Back rooms basically, got everyone super excited, right? So firstly, with Keen's fan base through his viral shorts. And then, and then other people started hearing about it. And now the mainstream are like, you know, what, what is this little like indie movie that that's kind of breaking that everyone's talking about? And everyone's like, just so super excited to want to go and see it. And that to me, I think it's the biggest irony that, um, not enough people are talking about, which is these YouTube creators that are making stuff generally for the smallest screen or actually wants to make movies for the big screen theater experiences. I think we need to be talking about this more about why, what it is that ultimately makes them want to do something for the big screen that everyone can get in a room together and share this communal experience. So I want to know more about how these two films were developed, you know, where they came from. So James, for example, on, on back rooms, where did you find this guy? I mean, how did it come to you? We at Atomic Monster, my company that I started a while ago, we, um, you know, we came across the viral shorts just like a lot of people did, right? We, we saw it online, we saw it on social media. And, uh, and, you know, and so we reached out to Keen, you know, uh, we didn't at the time. We didn't know that he was a 16 year old kid. We just, you know, like, you know, you see any shorts, you talk to anyone at to the filmmakers and, and when we first set up the Zoom, I didn't realize that, um, Keen's father was on the call as well and rightfully so, right? Because like he was on the rage. And, uh, and so we were talking to Keen, uh, and, you know, and, you know, Michael Cleared, uh, my company, you know, he, uh, he's my partner at, at Atomic Monster, he said everything up and, and we got on and, uh, and we just chatted to him like, he was any other filmmaker, but always in the back of our minds, we, uh, you know, we wanted to be very careful. We wanted to be very sensitive to the fact that the kid is doing high school as a teenager. And, uh, and so we started developing this, um, with him five years ago, I think now. And, so Keen tell the story from his perspective that, uh, that, you know, that we, we were, uh, approaching him and a lot of other people in Hollywood were also approaching him as well. And he liked, he liked us and 21 laps entertainment. And, uh, and he wasn't quite sure which one to go with. And, uh, and, ultimately, you know, we're friends with the guys at 21 laps and we just decided, you know, what, why don't we just collaborate together and we help Keen bring his little shorts, um, into the future world. And that's what we did. We, uh, we developed a script with him and we brought it to age 24. I love those shorts. They're, they're very, um, what can I say this? I find them to be very soothing. I used to fall asleep to them. I heard something. I heard something funny. I haven't heard. I don't remember who, but there's some rumor going on. I think maybe Matt said it or something that there was an assistant that the source was an assistant, um, at 21 laps. Now, according to 21 laps, there was an assistant who they, who they let go who's running around town saying I found this movie, which is totally not true, which is hilarious to your point of, uh, of victory laps. I thought that was very funny. That's according to, uh, 21, too. By the way, he sure, well, he, he, he, he, he absolutely, he is entitled. He did, uh, he, you know, he did provide a very important aspect to the feature film. Yes, for sure. For sure. For sure. Filthy Luke, right? I mean, he's, he backed it with age 24. They, they were partners. He co-financed the movie. That's a big, that's a big deal. That's a big deal. Uh, uh, Jason. So there, I mean, there was a degree of risk with both of these movies and obviously like you were saying, it's very heartening that a movie is weird as, as back rooms is, uh, and obsession, you know, are doing so well. Um, focus features bought the movie at Toronto for 15 million, uh, were you confident about what you had when you brought the movie to Toronto, did, did it ignite some kind of bidding war? I mean, I have to feel that this maybe signals some kind of shift in focus features per view. I feel like their horror movies up to this point have been maybe more like quote unquote sophisticated adults, a tour of horror like the Robert Egros movies and obsession skews to a wider swath of the audience and younger. 15, um, 15 million dollars seemed like, seemed like it was a lot of money now. It seems like a great deal. So, so the, the person who, who took a bet, the first bet on this movie was Christian, Christian Mercury at Capstone. And he is the one who financed the 750 grand and he really deserves the credit for taking a risk on Curry, and on this movie and on the idea before anybody else. And he, he and his company put up all the money for the movie, uh, physical, the physical producer. Uh, the physical producer was James Harris, um, who and both of these, both of these folks were there long before, long before I had a week, Blumhausen Atomic had anything to do with the movie. I saw the movie a couple of weeks before Toronto, and I loved it. And I got on the, got on a zoom with the director and, um, I said, your movie's amazing. What do you want to do next? And he sent me a script called Anything But Ghosts. And we, again, this is all before Toronto agreed to fully finance the movie. So we financed that movie. We closed the deal. And I went with Curry to the screening of obsession in Toronto, knowing that we were financing his next movie. Um, and, uh, and I was thrilled that that focus bought the movie and then focused approach to us and said, we want to do anything but ghosts too. And, uh, and they said, would you consider, you know, helping us market and push out obsession as much as possible and then we'll partner together on the next movie. And that's, um, that's how we got involved in obsession. That's great. So do you have a theory about why this movie has connected? I mean, it's so unusual, as we've said, but obviously word of mouth. Obviously it's hitting people. Are people identifying with the sky? Is there some kind of weird gender dynamic going on? Right? Ryan has a whole theory about it. And both of those theory. Well, I mean, I think people do relate to an obsessive stalker character. I think absolutely, especially in this moment of social media and relationships that are fractured because of them. But I also think there have to be men in the audience that identify with this kind of, there, I don't want to employ the word in sound necessarily, but there is an identity subjugation fantasy that this movie perhaps plays into. Well, the wish to do my aspect, right? The wish to film an aspect that goes awry. Right? Yeah. My, my theory is closer to James quite different than your theory. My theory is when a movie does this and Anne, we were talking about before the interview, you were a big supporter of paranormal activity early on. To me, paranormal activity is a, a, a, there's a couple and the woman sees a ghost and the guy says, you're full of shit and like, and like the woman says, I'm not, I'm going to prove you wrong. And she turns out to be right and he turns out to be wrong. And I think, I think fundamentally, that's so powerful. I think obsession. I don't think it's, I don't think people are relating, this is my theory to the stalker. I think people are relating to being obsessed with someone. And when you're, when you have like an infatuation with someone, you You get to watch a movie where all the things that you want to do, but don't do someone else is doing. Yeah, that's it. And I think that is so to James's point, wish for Phil. I think it's so satisfying to see what you want to do when you're really obsessed with someone, to see someone actually do it, that I think that there, there's a lot of incredible things we had both actors here today talking at a town hall and they did, they are, they, their performance is so spectacular and the directing is so spectacular. And there's so many great things about the movie, but fundamentally, my opinion is young people love to see what it's like to actually act how you feel inside. Yeah, I mean, that's definitely true. I'm coming at it from a dark twisted underside angle. Brian Lutton's here, right there. I also think that, you know, part of the success is because Perry Bach has put up quite a personality for himself online as well. The internet world, the YouTube, the social media world, loves seeing these people go on to have the successes that they have, right? And I do think they want to be because these guys make these movies and shorts or whatever they do, the content wise that they produce with so much, you know, an as authenticity and so much truth that their supporters want to support them and want to see them success, succeed, right? And so I think a lot of the fandom, the fan base of their come out in drove to really support them in a big, big way. And that's essentially what we saw with back rooms with Focane, I think, the initial wave at least. It's pretty unusual to go to an opening weekend screen. I went to see it opening weekend at a cinema theater, packed, packed, sold out. It was great. It's both movies are constantly sold out in New York. I was the oldest one there. We had to go to the eight o'clock show. My daughter, yeah. It's great. It's great. I think people, you know, a lot of, I think especially young people that they've spent 30% of their, if you're 12 years old, you spend 30% of your life four years not being able to go to the movie theater. So I think it takes a let's take in a long time for, for especially young people who've spent a big percentage of their life not being able to go to the theater to remember how fun it is and how cool it is to like experience a movie, not on your phone together with other people. And I really, I really credit the filmmakers, the actors, the producing teams, the financiers, the distributors of these two movies with, with, with reminding young people how fun the movies are. Well, I like it. I like our rated films to bring the young people out. All right. So, so this is, is this going to be, you know, the old saw in Hollywood is that hits be, be get hits and going to the box office means going back to the box office. It's, it's a, it's a repeatable thing. Is this going to have, is this going to last? Are we going to hang on to them? They checked out for a long time. I just think, you know, absolutely what we're seeing is, you know, you make the right movies, people want to come out to see them. That's the bottom line, right? And it's, I know it's easier said than done. It's not always an easy thing to do. Like, I mean, you can never predict what people want. But, you know, I guess you can at least try, right? You can at least try and listen to what they want to see. Go ahead, Chase. Yeah. Well, I was going to say, look, maybe it's partially, you know, I, I don't know the difference being hope and think. I certainly hope so, but I also think that, um, that, um, this will remind people how fun the movies are. And I think we'll see an uptick in box office, um, for the rest of the year. And are the studios going to change their ways? Are they going to try to imitate this and catch it? Are they going to be able to? There is a marketing down. There used to telling people where to go. They're not used to engaging with people. The, the, uh, the wrong lesson that will be learned from all this is everyone's going to be now pillaging YouTube. Yes. That's exactly what's going to happen. Pillaging social media and the internet. It's creepy pasta now. It's going to be. Yeah. No, I mean, that, that's a concern that I have is it's not that it's backfiring, but then we're in a situation where we're only, then the studios are only grelating talent that's already been incubated online. And then there's less putting of risk or developing into new talent. Maybe you don't see that as an outcome of this. I'm not that cynical about it. I mean, the studios are still, you know, they're still their core business. It is still, you know, I don't think this is affecting Chris Melodondry. That's their core. They're big, big movies. I think, I think, I think Toy Story is going to do very well this summer. So, so, but I think that they'll, I think it's, I don't look at it nearly so cynically. I think it's opened up their eyes to a new generation of filmmakers, a new way to tell stories. I think the way focus, which is obviously connected to universal marketed obsession was not, you know, in your face. I think they handled it delicately and it very, very well. And they're not a studio, but the same can be said for A24. They did a great job, but that's to your point, Anne. But I, but I think it will open up. I, again, I go back to the fact that if you both movies are nuts, so. And I think they're, it'll open the eyes of studios to, to taking more of a risk on out of the box ideas, which I think is good for everybody. Yeah. Do you think A24 is part of the marketing law for back rooms as, as a brand? Do you think that makes a difference with audiences? Do they actually go because it's A24? I think, I think, I think people go because the movie is A24. I don't think that at the, obviously, the movie did three times their biggest opening ever. They've released many, many, many, many movies. I think when A24 is attached to a movie, younger people are that much more excited to go 100%. Yeah. That's just a, some trust, level of trust that goes along with it. You've kind of figured out what the, a lore psychologically for audiences of obsession is. James, what about for back rooms? What, what is it about? I mean, it's not, you know, it's from the YouTube videos to this feature film. What are, I don't know, what are people identifying with it? Well, you also had to figure out how to make it into a coherent script. Well, yeah, exactly because the original concept started on Fortun, right? And it was sort of, you know, it's a, it's a, it's a literally the very essence of what a viral thing is. It just sort of grew. Someone put this picture out there and then someone added a story to it and then someone else added to it. And so there's a string of sort of legacy that came into the, you know, like the, the, the thing before, before we even got around to the feature before can even go around to it. And the special thing that what came did was he took what was sort of like unique about it and he added his own voice to it. And I think there's just something about the added legacy that just someone comes along and just added more to it. And I think there's a, the entire internet, baby, maybe sees that they have some kind of ownership to, to basically its back rooms in some ways. And I think, I think in a lot of ways that really helped sort of shape how people see the thing and what brought people think because, because like you said, it's not the most easy or the most mainstream sort of like concept for people to wrap their heads around. I'm still trying to figure it out, man. Yeah. But, but to Jason's point, I think, I think the younger generation really liked the, the strange and the weirder things. And I've noticed, I don't know if you guys have seen this, but there is a love to the work of David Lynch that I've been seeing. That's very good to say. The people gravitating towards it. You guys have seen that, right? And I find that very interesting. I find that my generation, you know, like I loved it because I went to film school and, and you know, and we're taught to love, you know, people like the David Lynch's of the world. But it's very interesting to see because of sites like Letterbox and places like that of how it has introduced the younger generation to filmmakers that you wouldn't usually think that they would be into. And so, and so I really love that, yeah, I really like and love that, you know, the, the, the younger fandom are finding that the strange and peculiar, really interesting, Philema. Yeah. Especially in the wake of his death, you know, I would argue that David Lynch is the most influential filmmaker for the young, the current generation of directors. What do you think that is, Ryan? I'm trying to wrap my head around that. What it is, it is about him that they're gravitating towards. Part of it is those movies don't try to superimpose meaning on the images. And I think that younger audiences are resigned to the fact that a lot of what happens in life is without meaning. A lot of what we see doesn't have a meaning superimposed on it. And it's what you make of it and see of it. And you know, there's movies and more about sensibility and sensation than sense. And more about a vibe, right? Like, yeah, exactly. There's a vibe movies totally. And he doesn't explain everything as as as back rooms does not to its credit. Is yeah, as he shouldn't because the the fan base brings their own idea and perception onto it. So they're all over it online, right? They're just all going wild with what the meanings are, right? Yeah, exactly. And the great thing is, you know, that they debating amongst themselves, you know, like, no, this, it's about this. No, it's about that. And they get into it really emotionally. And so it's really cool. It's great to see how engaged they are. And so yeah, it's really interesting. - So our director is gonna be the new names that bring people in. I mean, is that where we're heading? Stars aren't doing it. Actors aren't doing it. - Well, I think Jason will tell you that at the very least in the horror genre, it has always been directed driven. It's always been film- - I'm not even talking to George or Mary. - Oh my God, as far back, right? All the way back to Alfred Hitchcock, right? You know, like Hitchcock probably went into a very first original horror filmmaker. And so Jason's only a point, at least for me, for my perspective, as director myself, is when you're a content creator, right? On YouTube and social media, you're the person, like you experiment with things, you experiment with editing, with photography, putting your friends in the end, you do crazy camera work, you use technology too, I developed a certain look that you're going after. And you do all this using basically the internet as a platform to get instant feedback on what you do, and you can continue to hone your skills that way, right? And so these guys perfectly set up to cross into the horror genre. The one genre way, the aesthetic of filmmaking, really has a big hand in the success of the actual product that you put out at the end, right? Jason, would you agree? - Totally, 100%, 100%. And I do also think that there, there horror has been director driven for a long time, and you know, Jordan Peel is a brand, there are brands in horror. - James Wan is a brand. - Well, exactly. - And Blum is a brand. - It's often how younger directors cut their teeth, and then they sometimes move on to other things, and then circle back to it, but maybe they don't. - Yeah. - Talk a little about your collaboration, how you two are working together now. - Well, we met many years ago, many years ago at from-- - On a serious-- - On a serious, yeah. - Exactly, exactly. And we've been, we've produced movies together, you know, we've produced Megan together. We know each other for a long time, and very well. And we did something very unusual. And I think both of us didn't quite realize how unusual it is, and haven't maybe explained it well enough for people to understand, but we didn't just like, one day decide like, hey, we're gonna come together. Like, over the course of 18 months, we spent an enormous amount of time and energy, making it so that there is one company with two labels. So there is one P&L. So for every dollar I make on five nights at Freddy's, affects James exactly the same way that every dollar he makes on conjuring affects me, that there is one company with one physical production, one business affairs, one marketing, one post production, one communication department, that James and I together oversee. And there are two, and the one thing that we wanted to maintain because we wanted to continue the output that the companies were doing on their own. I made three or four movies a year, James made three or four movies a year, we wanted to continue that output. So the creative groups, the creative group, a movie and television group of Blumhouse, and the creative, movie and television group of Atomic remain separate, but everything else is together. And it's really one company, Blumhouse Atomic, and that company is responsible for the exorcist and Black phone and back rooms and the conjuring and everything that we do, we do together, which is hard to get your mind around mostly, I think because it's sort of unprecedented. There are the two biggest comedy companies. It's very rare, I can't think of a time. Maybe you guys can think of a time. Financier is combined each other, studios combined, Fox and Disney combines, and even networks, ABC and Disney, NBC and Universal, but very, very rarely have producers merged in the way that we have. So it takes them explaining and some getting used to for everyone. >> But you were able to increase the volume. That was the goal, right? So that you were in charge of the quality control, both of you, and you could get more movies. >> Yeah, and what we feel really particularly proud about, especially this weekend is this weekend is like, this weekend never would have happened if we hadn't merged and this weekend was like the fruits of strategic thinking on both of our parts for a long, long, long, long time. It didn't happen by accident. And I think, and we're both really proud of that, and happy to explain it to you, James, that I leave anything out. >> Well, I mean, the only thing I want to add to that is, we cross-pulling each other's projects, right? So we help each other out. That's the bottom line. You know, they're really great things that Blumhouse does really well, that we don't quite do as well at Atomic Monster. And so we kind of like siphon what they have, right? In their world, and vice versa, we'll help them out with their projects. And we just basically function as just, yeah, like one big family, essentially. And the in terms of the output for me, it's always been about quality. It's not about numbers. You know, we want to put out more, but we want to continue to put out just, you know, stuff that we think, you know, our fans wants to see. You know, that bottom line, and I really want it to be a whole spectrum of things, you know? Like from finding, you know, young, upcoming YouTube filmmakers to, like, legacy projects that we had that were super proud of, you know, like with the, with the Soul Films and Blair Witch Project, Paramount activity. And so I really think between those two worlds, you know, we want to find everything in between all that. And, you know, at the end of the day, at least for me, I'm just a fan of the genre. I'm such a horror fan, and I get super excited whenever there's something cool and different that comes along. And whether that is something brand new, or something new with a legacy project that haven't been done before, that's what excites me. And that was why when Jason and I spoke about this idea about merging in the first place, I looked at it and I looked at all the positive things that I can potentially do from a fan perspective. - And just to James' point, just to talk a few specific paranormal activities clearly, what started what started Blumhouse essentially and the new paranormal activity, James is the lead producer on it. We are not. So in terms of cross-pollination, you know, it's a good example. Blair Witch is something that I think, - What are these coming out? - I don't even remember, they're both coming out next year. - Blair Witch is a YouTube discovery, right? - And no, Dylan Clark, yeah, the Blair Witch. - Oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, yes, you mean the director? - Yeah, the director, yeah. - The director, yes. I was just saying, not the first player would come on. - I'm so excited to be here for a show. - Please. - Yeah, no, the first, a Blair Witch was like a classic Sundance discovery. - Yeah, I rented it as a 10-year-old and thought it was a real movie, so that's how embedded in my psyche that movie is. - Dylan Clark is a YouTube short filmmaker that we're very excited about, that we've got on this film. And he's got so much reverence for the original movie and just the fan footage style of filmmaking in general that we're working with him developing this movie right now that we're oh, so excited about. - And one of the things we did early on, and we've been officially merged for over two years, but one of the things we did early on, which again was a 12-month extravaganza, was get the saw rights back so that James now controls saw again after he controlled it in the first movie and then there were nine other movies and now we have saw back and they're the lead producers on the new saw movie, which will be the first time, James will be actively involved in the first movie. - It's very scary for me to be back on another saw movie. I haven't been back on saw. - Gary for you. (laughing) - I'll just for the production standpoint, have I been back on saw in a very long time, but having said that, it's also why I'm very excited about it because I do think that I have a very fresh perspective into this world, you know, like, you know, I help create it with Lee Waneu, and so to come back and kind of ship it this world into the next chapter that it could be, is very exciting for me. Just one more little nugget I wanna add with Blair Wiggies. - Is that noise on my end? - No. - I can, that's just a little bit, it's fine. - Just a little nugget that I wanna add about Blair Wiggies that makes it very exciting for me is just getting the, or the original, you know, people that would involve in the original Blair Wiggies, kind of getting their blessing and getting them involved. That was very important for all of us at Atomic Monster and at Blum House about, you know, wanting to pay respect to the legacy of it all. - And they were campaigning for that in their way, so yeah, we reach out to them. You know, I think James and I really believe franchises are, if the original, if the people in the world, the original movie want to be involved it's better to open your arms and bring them in. Well on that note I'm gonna thank you for coming and talking to us. This was fun. Oh, thank you guys. Well thank you. Thank you. And it was a pleasure to meet you James. I got it. I got it. It's me, though. We're gonna do it again. Thanks guys. Thanks everyone. Bye-bye. you