Special Guest Shep Rose: spilling the tea on Southern Charm, drug trips & if it's time for marriage

[MUSIC] >> Welcome back to Justice Girls at his page, Katie and Sam. Quick housekeeping. Today we have our first guest. >> Yes. >> Do we tell you that you were our first guest ever? >> No, what? >> That's, I know. >> And the podcast is called Justice Girls. >> Yeah, well, the podcast with the girl is. >> It's very interesting, if you're, if you're not a girl, it keeps you going. I was like, wait, you might get the wrong place. >> Yeah, we actually-- >> I guess you need to know a little bit more about the, the opposite side. >> We do, we do. >> We're photo ourselves as the jugs, Justice Girls. So you get to be a job today. >> Okay. >> Yeah, a jug, an honorary jug. >> What an honor. [LAUGHTER] >> So I'm going to do a quick intro for you, Chef. We like to, I'd like to do intros in the room, because, gas you up, like, you're an important person to us, to the Broadway spear. >> Okay. >> Okay, ladies, buckle up. Our guest today is Bonafide Bravo Legend. One of the original cast members of Southern Charm, still going strong, 11 seasons later. The kind of legend they should really put on Charleston's welcome sign. He's charming, he's chaotic, he's a two-time author, and lately, he's the guy actually doing the work, digging into vulnerability and growth in his new memoir, "Nothing in moderation." The charm, the chaos, and the heart, please welcome the one and only chef roast. >> Oh, welcome. >> Yeah. >> I know you're still. >> I actually, it was mostly-- >> There's that chat GP. >> I know I just, like, is that a grammar after I write it, because I'm not good with grammar? >> I'm terrible with grammar. >> We can't say or spell words on-- >> I'm a terrible editor, but I'm a good-- I write, when I write, it spills out of me. >> Yeah. >> And I definitely need an editor. >> It's somebody to come in and clean it out. >> I remember when I was young, my mom-- well, a couple things. My mom got a fourth grade report card, said, "Shep thinks he can get through fourth grade on Charm alone. He doesn't have that much." And then other teachers were like, "Lots of good ideas here, totally unorganized." But thank God to the editor. >> Yeah. >> Well, I think so-- >> Lindsay Clark, hi. >> Hi, Lindsay. >> Shout out to Lindsay Clark. I'm going to be honest, I think that this was two or three years ago. We would probably not have you on this podcast, because I feel like in the last few years, it was really interesting reading your book, because you could notice the transformation on TV, like the change in your demeanor, your vulnerability. >> Yeah. >> And I think it was so cool. We enjoyed reading the book to kind of get the behind-the-scenes experience of that. >> Yeah, yeah. I definitely evolved to thank God. >> It's been 12 years since we started filming, and I definitely have a different approach to certain situations in life, no doubt. >> Yeah, so I think, like, do you feel different? Like, still, after it hasn't been two years since you're-- >> Yeah, it's been a while. You know, there's moments where I revert back, and I'm hard on myself, and I also try to forgive myself at the same time. But I think the number one thing is just being empathy, empathy, showing empathy, giving empathy. Grace, as they say, that was a big part of my experience down in Costa Rica. I just-- I was very taken aback and inspired, and also felt a lot of pain and trauma from those around me. And got to thinking how good I've got it. >> Yeah, really quick before we get into combo, can you just give, like, a quick summary of your books through those who haven't read it yet, and what you know is probably really hard to do. >> Oh, okay. >> Boy meets girl, girl, I'll just take it. >> Boy meets a shaman. >> Yeah. >> Multiple shaman. >> Right, right, male and female. Anyhow, yeah, I was in a bad sort of way, and three or three years ago, and was just a mess. And I wasn't-- I felt like I was a little out of control, to say least. And I needed something to happen. I felt like, and I considered all options and talked to a lot of people. And this was-- one of them was Iowaska. I had a friend, especially who said it would be a really good idea, because she had done it down in Costa Rica. And she had a vision of me, and she was like, I just think you should get into it. So I talked to another guy who was a Navy SEAL. He and his wife had gone to this place called Rhythmiya, it's down in Costa Rica, it's Iowaska retreat, it's seven nights. You only do it four nights. So it's a lot of Kumbaya and breathing and yoga, and they get you in the mood. And yeah, and so he and his wife went, the Navy SEAL, and they had a very, very transformative experience themselves. He had PTSD to sort through, and she wanted to know more about that. Anyway, it's really, it's amazing, because, again, this is supposed to be a summary I apologize, but-- Take all the time you want. I was there. I was in the bus on the way to the thing, and these two southern girls, I heard their accent from a mile away, and they were from Dothin, Alabama, and they were there. I mean, that's so unlikely of people to there. There was older women there, and men, a real spectrum of interesting people, and everyone trying to find some sort of peace or answers are both. Can I ask you about the title? You talked a lot about titles at the beginning, and I was telling them, my husband and I always joke. He has ADHD, and he says, I don't do moderation. And I'm like, dude, it's just, you don't have to drink 10 beers. You can have two. You can have one piece of cake, not four. And he's like, my whole life, moderation isn't something that I know. It's all or nothing. And you talked a little bit about ADHD, and he has ADHD. And I was telling him, he has to read it as well. And they do, they do too. I knew it was in here without it for, I guess. But-- I agree. Yeah. But I thought that title was really interesting, because I feel like it's something people really relate to. I know you tossed around a few things. How do you feel now about that title? Well, I always wanted to call it, why must I always lick the jaw? Yeah, I know I love that. You reference that a lot. And the Cookie Monster mode. I love that. But yeah, I think I got talked out of the jar one. They're like, it's sort of semi-salacious. I was like, perfect, you're settling part. But it's also a little long-winded, too. So yeah, it's several titles. I was cool with this one. I mean, my first book was called "Average Expectations," which is a play on great expectations by Dick. And so yeah, I like to have titles are good. A good one sticks with you. Yeah, you're a big reader, right? John Gannick, yeah. Yeah, we're gracious. What are you reading right now? What are you reading? Theo of Golden? Oh, you are. Yeah, great things. My mom and actually my ex-girlfriend Taylor's mom gave it to me. And she was in town and we went out to dinner. I think I posted about it on Instagram. I got like a lot of buzz. No, I was like, what? They're like, why would you do that? I was like, because they're really good people. And they care about me and vice versa. Yeah, I mentioned that in the book about how-- Oh, yeah, exactly. And they're fantastic. And I would do anything for them. So anyway, they always give me a book. She does, her mom, and Leslie. And so then I brought it home. And I was like, mom, I got this book. And she's like, oh my god, my book club is obsessed with them. And blah, blah, blah. And we've gotten in touch with the author. We're trying to get in. And so I was like, OK, I got to read this book. So that's what I'm reading at the moment. Shut it down, man. Should it start a book club? I know. Like an online book club. Oh my gosh. I wanted to do a podcast way back before podcasts where so ubiquitous with Cameron from our show. Oh, the back. We would have killed it. And I still get pissed at her. I'm like, do you know what we missed that off? I have to say, I respect that she took a step back because you only imagine, but we miss her. I know, I do too. I mean, is it too late? The stuff that she said that, no, we taught. She's, she's like, got a different life. And but the stuff that, I mean, I'll let it, I would never tell her story, but like the stuff she said thanks, but no thanks to y'all is like, crazy. Why? Yeah. Just give it a chance. She's so like-- She was in there like a sweetheart. She was carrying her part too. Especially in the early seasons, I think she was the moral compass of the show. Like if, if cam thought what you were doing was not okay, it was not okay, babe. She was the queen. But that's also how I think sometimes people stick with or leave a show, it's like, oh, cam's gone. So like, I go with cam. Well, that was a fear for sure. I'm sure for the executives and the other people in charge. But, and then T-Rav leaving was like a vacuum that nobody wanted to fill that void, you know, that they can talk about chaos. Yeah. Everybody looked around like, I'm not going to be that crazy one. You know, that volatile one, I guess. Especially nowadays. And then all we take turns, basically, at this point, not on purpose, just like just the way the cookie crumbles. Yeah. I think Madison got to step up, though. Oh, my gosh. Yeah, she-- A queen presence, because she definitely stirred the pot, yes, for many years. But it's funny. I tell her, we become friends, and we laugh a lot together. And I was like, you know, Madison, you don't have much to be angry about anymore. I think it's going to work out for you. And she kind of nodded, she's like, yeah, that kind of did. So-- Yeah. Well, if she could still be a spitfire, though. Yeah, well, Cam, if you see this clip, please start a book club with Shep. Oh, my gosh. I feel like all of us would love that. That'd be great. Yeah. Well, let's take it back a little. I think it's like, we know so much about Shep. Now, like, can you talk more about your childhood, your parents? Like, what do your parents think about what you do now and your role? Yeah, right? They're so supportive and they love having me around. There's never a dull moment as far as me sharing my life and stories. And I remember once when I, not my first love, my second love. My first love was Kelly, my second one was Molly. Molly, I was like 23 right out of college Charleston, actually. And that's where my Instagram handle came, uh, relationship is what they call me because I wasn't this, I wasn't the crazy son of a bitch. Like I usually was, I was way more toned down. Yeah, I was in love, you know, and, um, and so my dad would call my friends after a weekend and be like, what did you do? Like, she's not delivering. Um, so pretty funny, um, but they're great. And you know, what's most rewarding is when I hear someone friend or, or family friend be like, you know, your dad was bragging about you and you're like, good, good. That makes me feel more. That's amazing. Cause I feel like some parents probably would shy away and not, I don't know. I feel so great. They're so supportive. Well, yeah, I mean, they live in their little bubble and, and I have stories from here there and everywhere and watch what happens live and celebrity encounters. Like they're just like, wow, I know if it was my son, I'd be like, go to everything. Tell me all the tea. I know. That's right. Yeah. That's so fun. But they don't, I don't, I, I know for a fact, like I'll tell them, I'm like watching episode tonight, like I think you'll like it, but they, they're not avid watchers. I, I wonder if many of my friends, I think that it's just like any other TV show, like, okay, we get it, good job, like continue, but like we're, we're not involved. Yeah. So you mentioned your first two relationships with love. So you at first, like in high school, were you like a really, no, no, I was a very late bloomer, um, yeah, in romance world, um, I was, friends with all the girls in high school. I was an athlete. I'm talking about middle school. Oh, yeah. And like when, when we were supposed to just, you know, when things were starting to bubble up the side. And I remember I was just like, not interested. I remember this really beautiful girl was like, come to the dance with me. I was like, oh my god, no, I was like, what am I supposed to do there? I had to dance with you anyway. And I just wanted to play sports. But um, I think it's the eighth grade. Remember there was like an eighth grade, uh, like a direct area for like the upper class management and the way I, there's a moment where I was like wrestling around and I was like, I'm obsessed, maybe you had like, you know, a couple of things going on with the hands and feet. They were going in back. It was a consensual wrestling. Yeah. About that all the time. I feel like we left about like middle school grinding. Do you remember like grinding in a cafeteria like a gymnasium? There was a, there was a dance club in the fourth grade called coconuts. And like our, in Hilton Island, our parents would drop us off there and they would play like terrible eighties dance music. But you could, I want a dance contest at coconuts. Don't ask me how and that's coconuts. I also pierced my ear with my friends. You were trying things. Yeah. I wouldn't have done any. That's the right passage. The ear pierced. Yeah. There's always a boy who is willing to do it. I was like, glad I really say an animal. Okay. So you had your first, was your first girlfriend in high school or based essentially, yes. Well my first girlfriend, I was in ninth grade, maybe shout out to Roxanne. And it was pretty, it was actually seventh grade. It was pretty PG. My first kiss. I guess. Yeah. And my other friends were like moving quicker in that arena than I was. I was like, yeah, I'd rather go surfing or play basketball still. Then when I was a senior, when I was at boarding school, I remember liking a girl that was a year older than me. That was a very good athlete and I should totally out of my league. I remember how long, how much a year seemed like. Oh, yeah. Good. A decade. So that didn't work. And then, oh yeah, there was another girl, and I used to call her on the rotary phone not really, but in the landline. And I would write down certain things to talk to her about, and I, it was disastrous. So I was not smooth for a long, long time. I don't know that any of them really, I don't think it, but then when I was a senior, I dated a sophomore, Kelly. And that was my big, big, big. That's your love. Yeah. And then after that, you became, you know, I don't know. Yeah. I don't know. Yeah. Like a duck to walk. Yeah. Here we are. Relationship. Relationship. Relationship. I know. So are, are we allowed to ask about current relationship status? Sure. Are you dating anybody? No. No. I'm not. I, I'm very much in that like, ready, you know, you can't hurry love. But your taxi light is on. You're like, if I don't, what do you say? Yeah. And I develop crushes quite easily and for a lot of the times, they're impossible situations, which somehow like makes me even more resolute, which is just so dumb and such like human nature, you know, it's, it's stupid. So I'm holding out hope in a couple, you know, uncertain situations, but it's not looking good. Yeah. I feel like everywhere a buzz want you and Taylor to reconcile. Yeah. Of course. Of course we can't talk about that, but I, I, I, Instagramming with her mom doesn't help this. You know, it's fine. I, I, again, I care deeply about that family. Yeah. And I guess you'll have to wait and see. Well, I think it's also one of those things where it's two years ago, I'd be like, Taylor, no, don't get back with Shep, but now I'm, I'm part of the hope trade. I'm, you know, okay. Yeah. Yeah. But we'll see. We'll see. We'll see. We'll push too much on that. Let's dive into friendships and what we've seen where you are in now, I feel like it was so interesting. We were talking about in the book, talking, I remember watching the Southern Charm Union after Bravo Con and how like Craig and Austin ice you out after the weekend and what had happened. Is it so complicated like being friends for so long, but being on a TV show, like do you feel like they're like boundaries to the relationship or almost like rules of war where you're like, we would talk about this off camera, but not on camera. Yeah, there was, there used to be and still to a certain degree, there's a construct of like, don't cross that line. Yeah. You know what I mean? And basically the line is like, you know, if our family is watching, if you do, if you like, bring up something so derogatory that it would like, like, don't bring him or around, not that I'm like having big parties in my parents' house with the whole cast, but there's an unwritten rule and it has been crossed. Are there times where it has been crossed? Yeah, yeah, and you know, it's disappointing, but then you have to just take the big picture, like, look, we're on a TV show, you know, like, it's okay. It might be in cindy area and feel like it's the weight of the world's on your shoulders, and I still get that feeling sometimes, but in actuality, it's not a very big sample size of human beings that give a shit, you know what I mean? And so don't worry about it too much. Yeah, how many seasons did it take you to get used to like being on TV all the time and when fights would happen having to relive them, like, do you still ever get like anxiety? I am more than ever, yeah, I'm more than ever right now, more than ever right now. And even if I'm in the right, and I like kind of like, hey, this is bullshit and here's that. I'm like, oh God. Now I feel like we're moving eight in this and other people are weighing in and there might be saying, oh, well, that's all good and well that he said that, but what about this? And it just, it's a lot. And I think that's part of my mindset these days is just like, oh gosh, it's just a little bit of angst. Do you feel like social media is different from when you started though because I feel like now it is like incessant. It's constantly comments and DMs and spreads and now like, you can sell information like even if it's like completely out of context to like all two willing people and I don't read the blogs. I don't, I don't look, but I almost all of my cast mates do. We talk about that. But I'm like, you can tell by the way, some of them act that they definitely do read. Try to course correct their image by just saying comments and not read it. That's a very obvious and and you know, it's basically feeding a monster that's not a good one. And yeah, so I don't do it. If I have friends that send me something, even if it's like minuscule, I'm like, if you're my friend, you will all send that to me. We're all content creators and obviously not to the scale that you have people reaching out, but it's that same thing. Like if you have a friend that sends you a negative article or something, I don't need to see that. No. If it makes you feel better, I have never watched Southern Charm and my exposure to you is your book. Oh. - That's cool, you have an interesting point of view. - Yeah, she had so many notes. - I was on an airplane like excessively taking notes. - Wow. - But I think like you said that. - How long was your flight? - I got through chapter six on the flight. I listened at 1.2 at speed. But I think like you said with that small sample size of people-- - How did I sound? - Great. - Great. - Yeah. - You're always kind of driving me crazy. - We often have that kind of thing. - Oh my gosh, our first cast episode that came out, my husband was listening to another woman. I was like, turn that shit down. What did I get not? Let's do it. - You know what I can't listen to? It's the theme song from Southern China. - Oh my gosh, I'm scared, I'm scared. - I was going to need you. I was going to get that out of your brain. - Like it's during a ceremony interview. - Oh, no. - Mother, I am. - I'm looking forward to your question. - So many. So what are your other friends like think? Like do you have a quote? I'm sure you have a core group of friends from like growing up that when you get around, are you like, all right, these are my people. I can relax, like I can put, check everything out the door. - 100%. - Yeah, is that like your lifeline? - Yeah, we're called the close buddies one. - Oh, that's cute. - And there's like 12 of us. But then there's more. There's different pockets of friends all over the world, really. And I love being around them and they give me a hard time and all the right ways. - Yeah. - And yeah, it's beautiful. - We talk about that a lot because so we're all really good friends and on our podcasts. Like, not we poke fun at each other a lot and roast each other because it's like, I don't know. - We're all from the Northeast originally too. - Yeah. - So we have that. And like sometimes who will message us and be like, you guys are kind of mean to each other. And we're like, that's 'cause we're good friends. - Exactly what friends should be. - Exactly. - You know, we're your friend. - We keep each other in check and. - I mean, I had to say that on Southern Charm. At least again, this is more listening to comments. Like, you're so mean. I was like, if I'm nice to you, I don't give a damn about it. - Exactly. - Like, if I'm like, very polite, oh, are you okay? - I poke the barrier and you're sensitive. It's like, this thing going worse. - No, it's not going to work. - Yeah, we just ain't going to work. Is that your Florida coming out? - Florida coming out. - Oh yeah. - Close to a woman. - Oh no, don't call me that. - Well, speaking of actually, so one of the things that we really enjoy about you is how, and you reference it in your book, speaking politically and your viewpoints because I think you're a political views or so counter-culture to what you would think of like this white Southern man. And it's so refreshing, I think, to see that take and see you speaking out. Are you surrounded by people who have similar views? Or is it like kind of, I don't know, Charleston, do they not talk about politics? - Charleston is an educated town. - Yeah. - And they call balls and strikes on human beings. - Yeah. - Unfortunately, there's a, in the middle ish of the state, there's people with just deep prejudices and be it against women, be it against people of color. It's exactly what they wanna hear. - Yeah. - And it's sad as that sounds in 2026. You know who tapped into a great unrest and anger about certain people's lot in life. Who felt like they were owed something because of the color of their skin or whatnot. And it's just so amazing to me. Like, you know, the people that are doing the jobs that they won't do love it here, they love America. You know, yeah, they're immigrants. But they're, they, I mean, you get rid of them. This economy collapses all in top of itself. - Yeah. - Even the undocumented ones, I collapses. Completely collapses. So if you wanna say that, you wanna go down that road. I invite you to try that. - Yeah. How do you feel about speaking out? Because I feel like a lot of people in the bravo sphere, like, do not touch politics. A lot of people in general who are public don't touch politics. - I used to on Twitter a lot and then I got off Twitter. I was in Copenhagen and I was by myself and it was beautiful. What a great city. And I was on Twitter and just getting agitated about Trump and shit and I was sending mad messages to my dad who, by the way, is the head of the GOP or was. And you know, he was in the Reagan administration. So he's old school. I mean, he's not, he understands, you know, the situation. He's no like cheerleader for the wrong. But, you know, I don't know. So he was like, what are you doing? He's like, what the hell are you doing? You're in Copenhagen, like, trip of a lifetime. And I got off Twitter that day. - Yeah, yeah. - We talked about that. When I heard you say that, I was like, I have been on Twitter in 12 years and anytime I even peek at it, I'm like, oh no. I can't be here. - Can't go back. - Yeah, so dangerous here. - Yeah, it's scary. - And yeah. And so I really have checked out, guys, girls, sorry. - The jugs, the jugs, as they, like, came out. - jugs. And I've just, it's like shouting into the wind basically. And you're never going to win anyone over. I think I heard Seth Rogan say that. He was pretty active in his displeasure, activism, if you want to call that. And he was just like, can't win. - Yeah. - You can't win. And if you want to like engage with these, these trolls. And like, trolls in positions of power too. - Yeah. - Yeah. - My Elon, you're just like, just, I mean, what a, for his brilliant and successful as he is, can you imagine actively alienating half of the population and selling cars? - No. - Who, by the way, are probably your biggest buyers? - Oh, we had, I had a Tesla and I sold it. - That is good. - Yeah. - If I'm on the board. Like, tackling him, no. - Yeah. I think they were. I think that's why he disappeared as they were. - And now he's tripled down. - I made a huge series about it. And I like to survive on to try selling my Tesla. - Yeah. - And yeah, that was an insane situation. - So I don't know what to do. I just know, I hate to be head buried in the sand, but we've got three more years. What the hell are we going to do, you know? - We're being in Florida. I'm similar to you where I'm surrounded by people that think very differently than me. And so, yeah, you have to save your mental energy where if you're in Florida? - I'm out in Pontavitor Beach, like Jacksonville, Northeast area. - Yeah, Northeast. - Four hours now. The more north you go, the more south it is, they say. - I know. - Interesting. - In Florida. - I don't spend much time there. - I know. - I don't go there. - It's crazy, because I've spent a lot of time in Palm Beach and he was a clown at Palm Beach. - He's not the clown. - Couldn't get in to the Everglades Club, the Bath and Tennis Club. These are all my friends, are all members of the Sailfish Club, they wouldn't touch him with a 20-foot pole and then so he did Mar-a-Lago. Now everybody's like, our taxes are lower. Come on in, it's so superficial. - Yeah. - It's like, yeah. - That's how it was in Jersey too, like in Atlantic City. He was, nobody wanted to be around him 'cause he corrupted them all and bankrupted everybody. - Yeah, now he's like, I'll get you all, I'll get you rich people even richer. How about that? - Yeah, they love it. - Well, I would love to hear hearing that your dad so involved in the GOP. How did you, like, were you Republican growing up and then were there experiences that you- - That's such a question. My grandfather was a Democrat and was appointed a federal judge by Jimmy Carter. Of course, Democrat and he's from Selma, Alabama. It was different, but it wasn't because I know that I would listen to them speak. I was on the floor as a 12-year-old and Thanksgiving and listening to my dad and it was respectful and it was interesting and it was, I just was soaking it all in. And I sided with my dad at the time and for many years, many years. And then I just started to think about the social stuff that when it got far right and when it got anti-gay and this stuff, I was just like, I'm not doing this anymore. And then I remember my grandfather said, "How much does one man need?" Meaning once you get to enough money or whatever, then it's like help. Then it's time to give back and if you love this country, how about you help people who really need help? And of course, here's the pushback you'll hear is, oh, well, you don't get money, the government, they're like the biggest wasteful spender. Okay, fine. How about starting an initiative somehow your own? I don't know, but there's a way to do it or at least a way to talk about it and think about it that doesn't make you a socialist for pricing. Actually makes you an empathetic, good human. How about that? How about that is a goal, yeah. I think you talked about it well in the book, though, in a way that was very relatable. And like just listening to it as a person who's, by the way, I've never done any drugs. So listening to your book was a real trip for me. I don't know if it was a real trip for me, but that chapter I was listening and I was like, oh, this is really interesting, your perspective on it. And I think it was something that most people probably agree with to some extent. And so I'm glad that you did touch on it because I think it was well done. We were proud of it. Thank you. You're not bearing your head in this. And to also make you feel better about speaking out, we won't get details, but it's another cast member from Southern Charm wanted to be on this podcast. And we actually said no because we didn't want to platform the cast members views and treatments. And we were like, shut would be so interesting because we actually, like your transformation, the way you speak out is somebody we want to platform. And we really appreciate about vulnerability and change because I think especially, you know, talking about like the male loneliness that is at it. And in cell culture, it's like seeing a privileged white man use his privilege for good. It's very fresh. Well, let's hope so. I don't know how much of an indentation I'm going to make, but trust me. It doesn't mean you're not allowed to make mistakes or things like that. Trust me, I make them-- Don't we all, though? But I just want to make sure my heart's in the right place. And at least I can live with myself. Yeah, yeah. All right, well, let's switch it up maybe to some fun time. - Topics start talking about drugs. - Oh, yes, so wait, wait, wait, wait, wait. - Topics, this is the common theme on this podcast is we make fun of Paige, 'cause she has never even been offered drugs. - Okay, can we also stop for one second and say we've done drugs, we've smoked weed? - And I've done Molly a few times. - Okay. - You know, house concerts. - House, you know, a V2. - Yeah, thank you. - Can't talk about my biggest regret right now. - Well, no, you said something in the book and I actually had to stop the book because we've talked about this so many times. I've never done drugs. I've also never been offered drugs outside of weed, like ever. And my friend is like, oh yeah, there was cocaine over here and there was, and I was like, what do you mean? - I've never even sensed that it was in the evening. - So, when you said the thing in the restaurant where you're like 50% of these people have it or they're looking for it. - Yeah, she took it out. - She took it out. - I was freaking out. - No, no. - I think it's a higher percentage. - I think it's true. - Yeah. - She was like, no way that many people have hoped. - So I said in the book, just so they know, I said, I submit to you that, and mostly college towns or a bigger city. - Totally. - Anybody in the bar, in a crowded bar, either half of them have drugs or are looking or the guys on the way or there's a call out. - Yeah, you said that and I was like, I would walk into that same exact restaurant and see like, not one person in here has, 'cause everybody here's the whole semester. They are just enjoying their nice glass of white. That's it. - I mean, Chris, how can I tell? Like, just so I have my radar. What is the radar? What do I know this is happening around me? - Well, I don't know. I mean, some people were having written all over their face. - She doesn't even know what that means. - In the VDIs and the sweat. - Just like, or the fast conversation. - Yeah, like, you can't get a word in. You're like, all right. I mean, I've been that guy. I can't do any many times. I talk too much anyway. So that's the last thing I fucking need. - Yeah, now that stops me, my friend. - Oh my gosh. - Yeah, 'cause it's too much. It's an issue for a friend. - So I'm gonna get banned on Instagram and can't monetize. - That's fair to me. - So what was the first drug you ever did? - Weed. - How old were you? - The gateway drug. - Yeah. - They say, as Dare told us, what they said. - I remember my friend who went to public school. We went, I mean, went to Hilton Head Prep. They went all the time. - I was just kidding. - And I don't know why. He bounced back and forth, whatever. And he came over to the house for the seventh grain. He goes, "I got a dime bag of weed." We were like, "Weed." Oh, first, first, first. In like six grade, we would smoke bamboo. We had like my friend had bamboo. We would crush up the leaves and somehow make like a-- - Did that do something? - No, that's absolutely nothing. - Smoking your body. - We were bored. - Yeah. We wanted to like change our-- - It's like I can't leave my son home alone. - I am lonely. - Never leave my son home alone with his friend. - So it was like dirt weed and dirt weed. - Yeah, shwag is what they call it. It has like seeds in it and all that shit. And it's nasty. And this before like weed became a cottage industry and now is like, you order the kind that makes you-- - The fancy drink on my, yeah. - Anyhow, so yeah, I started doing that and then you know my friends would start rolling blunts and we were listening. I remember after I got kicked out of boarding school, I went to Hilton Head High, the public school and for like a semester and the drug dealer gave me a ride to school every morning and he'd roll a blunt. He'd roll a blunt on the way to school and put on Wutang clan. And we would just get blazed and I'd walk into the first period like only seven more hours to go. I wonder if I'd think-- - Wait, can we ask why you got kicked out of boarding school? Can we ask why you got kicked out of boarding school? - Yeah, yeah, a lot of small infraction, essentially. And finally, it was a fake ID that-- - Ah, I don't know. - Yeah, but they were like, this is last straw. - Yeah. - I had like a fence and they were tough. Like they-- - You were at a pisc pool, right? - Yeah. - Yeah. - They were the least of the time. I don't know what's going on. Actually, my oldest niece is there, but she's well-behaved. - Yeah. - But I mean, you tell me, you put together a bunch of 15, 16 and 17 year old kids. - With access. - Yeah, with-- - You've never really been told no before, most of the time. And you put them together and they're hormones and they're really trying to impress each other. And then you're like, don't do anything. - Don't do that. - Are you crazy? - No, my sister went to boarding school. We're twins. She went to boarding school. I said to public school, and she saw some shit. I'm like, what do you, again, what do you mean? They're drugs in your dorm. - Yeah. - What's happening at your school? - New age board, dare, t-shirt, with-- - No, I can't. - And hang up in cigarettes. What was smoking cigarettes? - The penguin. - The penguin. - The penguin's like, don't smoke. - Yeah, well, it's bad for you, so. - Yeah, and meanwhile, all this control is forced upon. You had to sign out to go get a sandwich. And you're just like, what? And meanwhile, your friends are in home. They just got a brand new car, they're licensed. They've got a girlfriend, they've got a beer party. They're going to later. Nobody's the wiser. They're having a time of their lives. - They're in a field somewhere. - You like sneak up beers one time. You're like, whoa. And yeah. So I guess I made up for a much later. - And you want to go to boarding school? - I didn't. My sister was there. My older sister, and she's a very good student. And it's a really good school. I'll say that. And I owe a lot of my whatever intellectual curiosity and to, we were reading esoteric Shakespeare plays and Tom Stopperd and all this cool stuff. And so at least my English was greatly improved. At least knowledge of the King's English and literature, yeah. - I feel like you have such an old soul than you. - Oh God. - Like, do you feel that? - I feel like I'm 14. - I'm sure. I don't know. It's like, I feel like you've lived a lot of lives. - I've lived a bunch of lives. - Yeah, like, good for you. Okay, so anyways, so you get to Costa Rica. Why did you choose Costa Rica? I sort of did a little research and this place is Rhythmia is pretty much like the Ritz Carlton. And they're accredited, like as much as you can be for, I mean, it's illegal in the US, but there are ceremonies. Like you've got to kind of know somebody, whether it be in LA or there's actually, and they came to Charleston. I wasn't able to participate, but yeah. So it's around and it's helping people. And this one, what I was told is very good starting point jumping up. - How often are you supposed to do it? Like if, 'cause I think you mentioned in the book that people had gone back multiple times. Like, you met somebody who was back for their second time. - Fifth time. - But fifth time. How often are you supposed to do it? Or like, can you do it? - Okay, so like, Kelly Slater, for example, is on the board there. I ran into him. He's like a hero of mine. And he was like, I go once a year, maybe once every two years, just to sort of get back in the groove and start thinking about things and holding up a mirror, and are you improving and stuff like that? I desperately want to go back. In fact, I'm planning on it tentatively here in the early winter. - Oh, are you like scared at all of it? Or no? - I was before doing it. - Healthy amount of scared and nervous and excited. - Yeah. - But. - Oh. - Oh, that's okay. - That's okay. - You sort of are put at ease because they do 45 weeks a year with a group and they've been doing that for seven years. So it's like, it's almost like if you were going skydiving and the person you were tandem with is like, this is my 5,000 jump, you'd be like, okay. Then it's probably fine. It's still scary and you still can't wait for your feet to hit the ground. But yeah. - So when are you planning on going back? Like in a year? - No, a little less than that. Sometimes it's fall, maybe. - Yeah. I love that. I'm happy you not happy. You chose Costa Rica. Costa Rica is a very special place to me. - Oh, yeah. - My mom passed away from cancer. Her ashes are spread there. It was like a big place that I really went to. And Guadalajá stayed planita. - Yeah, that's what it just place is. - Yeah, where you talk about tamarindone, everything. We go there. We went there all the time as a family. - Yeah. So we just like to trip to spread her ashes. It's such a magical place. - How old were you when you were going there? - I started going there when I was eight. We actually had a family house on the cross. - It was nothing. So my mom bought a plot of land that was literally, it was like a dirt plot, basically no roads to get there. And then we just, it was so cheap. 'Cause my mom was a travel agent. She's a social worker, a part-time travel agent. And she had heard about Costa Rica. So we bought this plot of land a year later, the four seasons bought land five miles away. So they paved everything, they built up everything. And it just was like perfect. - Perfect. - Perfect timing. - All the amenities. - Yeah, but like our family, so we used to go there every year as a family. And it's just like. - How many, what, you just had a big house with a big yard kind of thing. - Yeah, we were like on a mountain, like overlooking the water. - Oh, you could see the ocean. - Yeah, but it's just the people there. So wonderful. - You sure? - You know, I'm not the most like, the batland. My limbs, I think the balance isn't there, but tamarindle like tried a few times. - Yeah. - And the local people are so nice. Like the monkeys are so fun. - It's great. - It's just like such a wonderful place to be. - Like to agree more. - Yeah. - In the several times. - Yeah. Well, I feel like you've traveled like all around the, what are your favorite places you've traveled to? - I have. Well, when I was in college, an older guy was like, hey, and I knew this was my dad wanted me to do it. Like while your parents are like basically paying for everything, go spend a semester somewhere. - Mm-hmm. - I had already spent a summer in Innsbruck, Austria. there is this progress. Ram, 200 of us from major universities around the South, typically, they put us over in insbrook and you do it a class four days a week and then you go on a long week and you take a trained Vienna or Amsterdam or Munich and Rome and I mean, it was so fun. I mean, we Prague, boy, we had fun there. I've heard a lot of good things about Prague. Yeah, it's kind of a, yeah, we can talk about that, but yeah, so I did some research and I found a thing in Buenos Aires, Argentina through NYU at the time and I didn't know anybody. But I knew that that was kind of a cool offbeat thing to do and my dad was like, you should do that. So I applied and got in. They never saw me coming on to the end of the month. They're like, oh, look at this nice Southern boy in like the third week, they're like, he's crazy. I'm out of here. I found my people. Yeah. You found your way in? Yeah. Sorry, Southern charm. Okay. So what? Favorite places? Yes. Yes. How about Alaska? You said you did that. I love Alaska family. But I wouldn't like go visit. Yeah. And like if you really want to have an amazing all-around experience, go to Cape Town, South Africa. It is the coolest city out there, one of Sydney's grade two. But Cape Town, by the way, Cape Town, everything is super inexpensive. You can get a five star hotel for $180 a night. Wow. Yeah. And it's a sprawling property and there's, it's just, you feel like you're back in time 100 years without the nasty part of South Africa, you know. But no, there's also a little danger there. But not in Cape Town. I wouldn't go to Johannesburg. At least that's what I've been told I haven't been. That's a great place. Hong Kong is fantastic. I'm dying to go to Japan. I'm going to Sydney with Craig and a bunch of other Bravo people in two weeks for the Bravo Fanfest in Sydney. Oh, and Sydney? Yeah. How funny. I know. Would you imagine that it would go that global? Like that's crazy, isn't it? It's wild. And so what I'm going to do is stay there for that. And then my friend from Melbourne is going to come up and we're going to fly to the other side of the country to this weird northern western territory where you rent like a car and you like go fishing and surfing and go to these different villages and meet all sorts of interesting bizarre people. I can't wait. Just off the grid. Off the grid. All right. So we have some like rapid fire type questions. You guys have any more? Wait, I have one question because I feel like this is a controversial topic, but you have, I feel like you probably have strong feelings about this before we get into the rapid fire. Yeah. It's men with flip flops. Yeah. My heart is high. Yeah. So you have a collab. Yeah. Flip pop collab. You have a flip flop. Yes. I recently saw a video online that was talking about the etiquette, though. Like what do you believe is the etiquette in order for a man to wear a flip flop? Because a lot of women do not like it. I heard this. And I, one girl, especially is like, if you wear pants and flip flops, God damn you, I was like, what? You're like, that's about me. That's why it's different, like being in Florida, I see a lot of flip flops, but like up here. I guess it doesn't own a pair of flip flops. Yeah. Like most of my family in New England, they-- It's a good gift. Yeah. I'll get them. So we have just like, read it on the side of the year tops and you can actually wear it. But so what's the etiquette? Are you getting a pedicure? Do you soak your feet? What are you doing? No, I'm, I got, I'm pretty lucky. I've got pretty good feet for it. Yeah. Yeah. Um, I just, I'm lazy. I don't want to tie shoes. I don't even want to bend down and put on shoes. You're pretty tall. So it's like a undertaking to get now all the blood. Yeah. It's grab and go. You know, I'm, I'm fat. I'm ADHD. Yeah. And like, I don't, like I have friends that I travel with or that I have in the past, like great friends. And there's methodical. Oh, where's my wall and like, he's, meanwhile you're in the lobby like this guy, 10 minutes ago when we were walking out of the door, you know, but that's not me. No. Well, the fishing and boating of it all, I feel like you grew up. Oh, yes. Of course. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I don't want to take it super deep after flip flops, but I didn't want to start from the book. You had referenced. I forget if it was a quote that you said or they told you, uh, rhythmia, but how going, I don't know if it's this entire trip or one time with ayahuasca was like five years of 10 years, 10 years and years of therapy. It can be. Can be. Yeah. So do you feel like after going through it, that felt true for you and have a better therapy? Yeah. Enough about therapy. Okay. Honestly, I, I, I had a therapist and went went like, I went like at five times and I liked it. Yeah. And, um, then COVID hit and sort of over, I really, I really, really, I'm going to go back into it because I think it's super helpful. Well, I feel like taking all your findings to from rhythmia and talking that through with a therapist would be a, you know, I even like told my, like family, um, male family members, um, in law or whatever and brother, I told them about it. This was COVID and they were like, I want that, you know, like everybody kind of needs something. Yeah. Yeah. You know, to internalize it. You know, in Ireland, they're like, why do you need a therapist? You go to the pub. Yeah. Uh, but I'm going to a therapist because I go to the pub. Exactly right. Oh. You know, it's all. It's a clickle. Yeah. No, I think that's a really good, like, cause I guess it's all, do you feel like as time going on, like you're going back to rhythmia because you need like a tune up. So to speak or do that, does it still feel like the lessons are right there? No. I mean, yes, they're right there. And I think the biggest change that I underwent was a sensitivity about my actions and their effects on other people and myself. And I just was more, um, aggrieved by missteps than I ever was before, cause I really didn't give a shit about for a long time unless it was something, you know, that I've really regret. Like, if, if you were like, man, you were on one last time, like, fuck you, like, so what? We should have played today and you're like, I'm so sorry for like, you're good. You're good. That's part of it. I'm like, Oh, no, you know, like, so I'm just, I don't know, uh, I, again, like, if I have a bad month, maybe a, maybe a couple of bad instances in a short period of time, I get really alarmed and I, uh, and I'd really snap back into, into reality. So I've, I just, um, yeah, there's just all these things that I need to work on and continue to work on because it never ends. Yeah. I will say your presence is like very calming, like you don't have like a chaotic presence, like you seem very good, very like comfortable with yourself relax, like, have you always felt that way? Or is that like a more recent thing? Yeah. Like, I'm not thinking about, um, much of all, like, let's say five years ago, I'd be like, all right, fish is tonight and tomorrow night, there's another fish show and then I got to do this. Now I'm just like, just relax, like go home, I'm, you know, watch TV, like, that's my new thing, like, try to be, don't, don't stay out much later than like 10, 10, 11, you know what I mean? And that'll, that'll do you well in this life, especially in my age. I'm like, what the fuck am I doing? But if there's like a, you know, if I get ahead of steam and I'm with the right, the right people. Yeah, and maybe I'm the wrong person in that situation, I'm not, I'm certainly not helping drawing the reins back, but, uh, yeah, just need to be careful and, and that's good that I'm thinking that way. I feel like. Yeah. You built that awareness and I forget the, where you were in the book, where you talked about that karaoke night, like after, where you talked about your personality where, and maybe it was partly like your identity where you felt like you were the party boy before and that's who you were, but you talk about how you were like the MC in that hotel lobby. And like, you can channel that positive, fun energy, but not wake up with regrets for refining balance. Yeah. So, yeah, it's all about, like, who are you at your core? Like, and you're probably not going to change that very much. I mean, even, yeah, and you shouldn't, you shouldn't. I mean, it's not like, uh, I've harmed people in the, like, I really need to totally rewire. It's just fine tune, course, correct, as I say in the book, yeah. So anything else starts from rapid fire and you get mostly fun questions. That's fine. Uh, first one's really fine. So as we said, Paige has never done drugs. If she's going to do one drug, what do you think she should do? Mushrooms. Mushrooms. Um, my credo's are like, truly, truly, I mean, you can, you can, uh, that's the whole thing with my credo's. Like, hey, two is really chill three, start to dance around a little bit, not dance, but your, your brain starts, I will say that is everywhere. Now that I, that I know about, it's like the new, I'm not being offered. I'm not. No, because like, eat is fine and I look, I, I don't really smoke it much anymore. It's not, I'll, I'll start eating gummy bears and, yeah, and all this stuff and, uh, and then, yeah, so I don't, I don't do it, but like, there's something about mushrooms that can really be relevant to worry, even in small doses. Okay. And it changes your sort of state of mind and it could be, I mean, there's a lot of work with mushrooms like in, in, uh, clinical ways. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So after, and I was cause right there with it. Yeah. Okay. Well, that's what I love to, how you talked about that in the book. Like, it's not a thing here because how to monetize it, like, and big parma. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Uh, we talked about that. I feel like online when it comes to like mother. and weed, and it's like they don't do any tests with weed, obviously, because if weed becomes the big business medicinally, then what's going to happen to all the pain relievers? And that was just a very. What do y'all think about this? What? A friend, I certainly am not going to get specific, like, she found the mom found their 14-year-old boys had pornography, like magazine, or whatever, and she's fun, and she's got all puritanical about it and sent him to, like, young life or like a week and something like that. I was like, "This to my husband, so funny you said that literally last night, I was telling him about these young life camps where, like, in the middle of the night, they'll kidnap them and bring them to the wilderness, and you're like, "I can't believe me," and I was like, "No, it's a date." I don't know if it was a kidnap situation. They're used to me. Well, yeah, and I mean, you know, hey, there's probably some great things young life does, and it's like faith and faith, but like, there's some part of it that can be transformative and kind of a sketchy way. I know someone who's relative went as a young age and came back, like, you know, like a evangelical fallon. They were like, "What? What are you? What?" Like, look at the root of that, too. It's like just being able to have a conversation with that, because you don't want to create shame. Like, why do you want to look at this? What do you like about this? I'm kidding me. My mom never actually laid her hands on the Victoria Secret catalog in 10 years. 35 years. Yeah. But that's what I mean, like, is that surprising to a mother? It shouldn't be. I mean, I'm already thinking about this in my son's, well, he's getting older, but like, I think about how we're going to have those conversations. I'm kind of embarrassingly sex-positive, mom. We're at the dinner table. We're like, "This is sex. This is consent." Yeah. This is normal. This is normal to feel this way. Yeah. To have. God. Yeah. Yeah. Cause the shame. That's what we feel. Now I'm giving you rapid fire. Yeah. So we like to say that cringe is growth. Can you name like your most cringy moment from Southern charm that you look back on and you're like, "I can't believe I did that." Yeah. Oh, God. There's so many. But it was, I could always go back to the egg toss with my ex-tailer when she got all. She stumped on the egg. I was like, "You fucking idiot." Yeah. Yeah. I was drunk, you know? And we, by the way, we were playing beer Olympics, which don't give me start. I was like, "Oh, yeah. I do this all the time." I'm with her friends. Yeah. But that's not, that's not my excuse, but it was, and yeah, I was just super embarrassed. I didn't even watch that season because we were kind of like on the brink at whole season and I was, yeah, not okay with it all, but, you know, you live to fight another day. So you don't have to watch the season before the reunion? No. No. Does it end up mad? I would advise too. Yeah. So you know, it's coming your way. Yeah. There's like a group chat, maybe not everybody, but it depends. And it's, when we get the episode about a week before, it's like, "Hey, did you see it?" Like, you're good. Yeah. Go ahead. Or like, you might want to sit this one out, you know? Yeah. Yeah. But I feel like recently, like, that's not really happening with you. No, it's not. Yeah. The season when we just film, maybe there will be a tough little talk. Yeah. Okay. Well, okay. We'll give you grace. Yeah. The online warriors for you. Yeah. I appreciate that. Thanks, Jugs. Yeah. Jugs for your back. Okay. Who was your favorite housewife? This is tough. A pastor present. Any. Teddy. My childhood friend. Oh, yeah. I was reading that. How funny. Yeah. Who would think that too? Hilton had people would end up in the brotha. Amazing. I mean, she'd be more likely. A candidate being who her father is. Yeah. I mean, actually from the same hometown as Craig Conover. Okay. So that's probably more unlikely. Yes, it is. Southern Delaware and VDS somehow. We went and visited their season, too. I know. I know. I know. And he brought Paige back a few years ago. And I was laughing at the thought of Paige being in Southern Delaware. Just. So if you had to be on this deserted island with Craig or Austin, who would you choose? Austin. We just laugh more. I mean, I laugh with Craig, too. Yeah. But I think Craig and I drive each other nuts. And if you're on an island. Yeah. Craig's also resourceful and. It can make you pillows. I just. I. Crossed it to pillows. You really need a pillow and an island. I think it's whoever it was, we would all die very quickly. Yeah. We're not going to start, you know, growing and eat potatoes. Is there anything? Some fish. What's your favorite movie? Ever. Yeah. You can do like too. How many are drama? You do like two or three. I think that's the top. Right. Things that pop up. Yeah. L.A. Confidential. The usual suspects. Rushmore. North by Northwest. Um. I don't know half of these. Yeah. What are these? North West. We need to add these to our job list. Yeah, what? Yeah. I only know that you. I know these are movies. Yeah. Okay. Write them down. It's Northwest. That's a Hitchcock movie with Harry Grant. So it's old. Yeah. That's an old soul thing. Yeah. That's all. There's new eight souls are watching these. 70s. Are there? Is there one from the recent history? Yeah. I recommend. Recent. Oh, I really liked Project Hill, America. Oh, I was just talking about that. Okay. And I'm going to see Prometheus. I'm going to see the Odyssey. The Odyssey. The Odyssey. I think tomorrow. That's the plan. Are you going in? I'm Max. I have to. Are you going by yourself? I have a friend who's who wants to go. I'm going to say maybe we'll call. Text me. Nobody will see it with me. We've talked about it all the time. I haven't seen it yet. I don't know. Maybe it's not like. It's too long. I heard people are like scalping tickets to I max Odyssey. I don't know. I heard it. There's like a four hundred bucks to get in or something like that. There's only 40 theaters in the world that have like that actual original I max fill. So it's like hard to get into. Okay. I'm not paying four hundred dollars this year. Yeah. Yeah. Nobody will go with me. What? You want to see it three hour? I can't. I can't. I can't. to my sister and brother-in-law and their kids went. They loved it. Well, people are upset online too, because they're like, you're giving away spoilers. And it's like the Odyssey, like, 3,000-year-old story. How can there be a spoiler? Oh, god. [LAUGHTER] OK, in the last question, we can't ask. Are you entailer together? But wait till season 12. I was hoping to do it rapid fire to see if there'd be a slip up there on the street. No, it's going to keep a little mystery. It's going to keep a little mystery. I'm not trying to get into that mystery. We texted today a couple of times. Just put it that way. I love the way you spoke about her mom. It's so sweet. I love the way you speak about her family. Oh my god. She's my brother. You don't understand. I mean, we weren't together. We were probably five months broken up. And this is very serious. One of the most serious things I've ever dealt with and saddest things. And I was playing golf. And she said, or she's like, worth is gone. And I was like, I was like, what? And then I was like, gone where? She's like, he's gone. I was like, I like collapsed. Just sat down against the wall and was like, no, no, no, no. And I called her and she was hysterical. And she was like, we're going to Raleigh where he lived. They found him. And I was like, what do you need for me? She's like, it would meet a lot if you were there. And we weren't together, you know? And in fact, I'm not even sure how-- I think we were good for a while. It's been a really bizarre post-breakup relationship. And I always wanted it to be, you know, I'm such a dummy. I'm such a guy like, well, no big deal. We dated or not, you know? And it just means a lot more-- or at least the emotionally means a lot more. It meant a lot to me too. And it still does. And so I drove to Raleigh and met them. And her parents came through and just sobbing, sobbing. Like heartbroken shit, devastating life-changing shit. And so that means something to me. And I'll never-- you know, that's a bond. Unfortunately, one of the worst kind of bonds you can have, but it's still a bond. Yeah. Yeah. Well, I feel like the way you spoke about your friends losing their siblings to cancer and how that, like, very vulnerable. And it seems like you really do have a big heart. You're very good at being empathetic and-- Well, I'm so lucky. I mean, my gratitude is off the charts. And you know, the guy who was a couple of different things-- the guy who runs Rhythmia was like, shop, you've been given so much. And that's great. And you shouldn't feel-- you know, any other way about it other than don't take it for granted. Don't stay alive, basically, because you don't fucking know. He's like, I have lots of friends who are awesome. And you know, they just kept hard charging. And now they're not with us. And you know, way too early, you know? And I was like, fuck, yeah. I mean, all these things affect so many other people. Your actions affect so many other people. So it's not terrifying, but it's weighty feeling. And I don't take it lightly. I'm trying not to. Yeah, yeah. Well, next, so do you see yourself getting married and having kids? You talked about that in the book. Yeah, I love it. Do you have any questions? How many kids do you have? I have three, three, four, two, three, three, four, two. Oh, well-- - Yeah. - Yeah. No, I think-- - He's like, "No, I don't want to know." - He's like, "I don't want to know." - Well, it's me. I've walked into my sister's. Yeah, I've worn nieces and enough you. And I understand, like, there's probably, and you correct me, please. - Yeah. - 80% of it is a slog. You know, like, is that being generous? - Maybe. - Especially when they're, wait, what's your favorite age for them? - Mine are young, two and four. - Okay. - Yeah, I have a five-month-old, and then I'm up to a four-year-old. - Okay. - I have the oldest. I will say, I think, eight and nine is really fun. - That's what I would-- I'm interested in, like, really young and white. - With them. - It's just like-- - It'll give you a much, yeah. - It's like an appendage that you can't. - It is your shit on you. - Yeah, please don't die. - Yeah. - That's all that is every day. It's like, you're just like, "Please, please. Please survive." - They scream at you. - No, at eight and nine, they're funny. They're smart. - Yeah. - And they come home and they teach me things, like, "I learned this today," and I'm like, "That's really interesting." - Yeah. - And we get to talk about it. I think, yeah, it's really, as they become people, it gets really, really cool. I wouldn't say it's, like, my-- - What age is that, like, five? - Yeah. - Yeah. - You're going to-- - You're going to-- - You're going to-- - You're going to-- - You think you said joke? - Yeah. - Yeah. - Yeah. - My friend came home and told me his first joke the other day. - Yeah. - This is a fun scene. - Yeah. - Yeah. - But for every joke, there's a-- - Yeah. - Eventually, on "Wow," but it's fun. - Yeah. - Yeah, I walked into my sisters two days ago, three days ago, and she and her two youngest. We're all sick. They're like, "We're sick." - Oh, yeah. - They're lying around on the couch. I was like, "Oh, that doesn't look like very much fun." - Yeah. That is the worst part of parenting. - Yeah. It's the most sickness. - Yeah. I also think that there's a part of that life that really keeps you out of trouble. And it focuses your energy on something that, yes, might be frustrating. But ultimately, so rewarding, even if it's 20%. - Yeah. - And I've got all this energy and hyper activity, and I would like to channel it in something really meaningful. - Yeah. - Yeah. - Reason kind to me. - I would say, and that 20%. I will say, when you step out of parenthood for like a minute, I would say, "Everything feels so much like richer and brighter." Because you're not there all the time, right? Like, you're in your daily life in the slug. You're making lunges and laundry. But then when you, like, when we come to New York, "Oh, the world!" It was amazing. Like food is delicious. It makes you appreciate it a lot. - Yeah. I mean, I had a friend who we went out. We go out to lunch. And he has two young kids. I love him and his wife. And we'd have a big lunch with wine. And he's like, "I got to go." And I was like, "Where am I going to go?" Yeah. I was like, "Can I borrow somebody's wife and kid?" I just, I like that sort of self-policing. At least if you're going to be a good father, you know, I get your ass home. Yeah. But it is nice that you're already kind of completing this, like, car mix circle before having kids. Because the last thing you would want to do was, like, sort this shit out when you have kids. Yeah. See, that's a part of my anxiety currently is, like, far be it for me to tell anyone else how to live. Well, that's how we all feel. Yeah. We're all fit. Every time I drive like a euconix out, and every time I get in it, I'm like, I feel like I'm playing house right now. Like, you know, these are mine. Yeah. But when I went to Target with my girls, I was just like, "Is someone going to arrest me?" Like, "I can't have two kids." Yeah. But you feel like a teen mom. Like, no matter what. The parents never knew what they were doing. They were just playing it by ear. Yeah. And you just try the best you can. Sometimes at night, you're like, "Wow, we fucked that up." Yeah. Try the course background. Okay. Your kids aren't at the same rhythmia, ayahuasca place telling, I mean, guys, you guys are great. And here's why. There's some really terrible parents out there in the history of parenting. Yeah. A lot of people that should not have kids. Oh, yeah. And, you know, whether it's anger problems or abusive, it comes in many ways. And so, there's so much pain out there because of poor parenting. Yeah. And so, I'm sure you guys are killing it. Okay. We're trying our best. Yeah. Our parenting goal from here on out will be that our kids don't need to go. Yeah. You might go with them. I know. You say how mainstream it'll be in 20, 20, so years. Well, I feel like our generation of parenting looks at it differently. It's like, we know we're going to fuck up our kids. But we want to be there to be like, tell us what we did wrong. Yeah. How can we. You know, let's go to an interactive parent. Yeah. Yeah. There was a mom and a son there. And I got to know them super nice. And we went on an excursion one day to where there, anyway, it's not important. And she, she had like a mini breakdown. Son was like 16, maybe 17. And she was like got claustrophobic. And you could tell like they're, she was sensitive and sort of overwrought. And you could tell he didn't know how to handle that. I was like, boy, you know, like, yeah, even something little like that can really affect you. As you get older. Yeah, I remember they were, yeah, I remember this was in the book. Yeah. Yeah. That was so interesting to me, the mother, son, dining on the trip. Yeah. Yeah. And, you know, we're, you know, so lucky to have the parents we have. I think, you know, and, um, yeah. So we're all doing our best. I'm sure. I love it. Yeah. Well, shop, thank you so much. This was so enjoyable. I think it loved kind of dissecting the different layers of you. We thought the book was so entertaining and. Oh, thanks for reading it or listening to sorry. Do you think listening is reading? Yes. And here's why I listened to all three of the girl with the dragon tattoos on like several road trips. Yeah. And I loved it. Once you unlock an audiobook, it is a game changer. Well, and especially in that because there's like all these Norwegian names. Yeah. I like the way that's. Yeah. It is funny when you read a book. We read a lot of like fan fantasy is like a big genre. A guitar books. You should read the actor. Yeah. You heard about all the names. I will not. You don't know. Dragon's month. But if you try to pronounce the names yourself, you're going to get it wrong. So when you listen to the audiobook, you're, oh, that's how I'm saying. You feel dumb. You feel really dumb. The first thing my mom, my mom had a terrible time getting me to sit down and read summer reading especially early in life, you know, fifth, sixth, seventh grade. It's the last thing I wanted to do. And what she got me into reading was the Calvin and Hobbs. Yes. I was Calvin. About it out. And that's what she saw on me. And so, but you know, I loved it. First of all, it's really good writing. Bill Watersen. Like, it's, it's, he makes all these references to philosophy and all this stuff. And it's funny. And it's touching too. So I had like, oh, every comic you could find. And that's really the only one. But that got me into reading. And so it's funny how little things like that work. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. What it's worth. I think you're going to be a really cool dab one day. I think you have like, it'll be fun. You'll be like teaching them a lot of cool things. Yeah. Outdoor. I think it's like the timing has worked out. I would love it. It's as long as hopefully I don't physically break down. Yeah. I need glasses to read my phone. Oh, you got the big text. Yeah. Big day. Yeah, I need to do that. I don't know how to do that. I'll teach you. I can do it. Yeah. All right. Thank you so much. It was a pleasure speaking to you. Pleasure being here. Thank you. Thank you so much for listening to the Justice Girls podcast. We are so grateful that you chose to spend time with us today. If you love this episode, be sure to follow. Like, subscribe, wherever you listen to podcasts. And don't forget to rate and review as well. We would appreciate it so, so much. Coming out with us on Instagram at the Justice Girls pod. And you can also find us on Substack at thejustusgirlspod.substack.com. Where we share even more from each episode. Little behind the scenes and all the good stuff you don't want to miss. We can't wait to chat with you next week. Bye.