Something Borrowed, Something Sued ft. Hayley Paige

I'm on like this emotional rollercoaster with your story this Haley Page good afternoon everyone I signed an employment agreement that included a non-compete clause I want people to know how easy it is to get into a bad deal my former employer sued me I was forbidden from using my own birthday you're like you're gonna see me was that your first lawsuit oh yeah the first real lawsuit you think you're going to jail in your non-compete it said that you can't wear a wedding dress on your own wedding did you ever feel like you were losing hope yes I always get like a little emotional when I think about the bride don't be sorry there are so many teachable lessons in life this was something that I just had to survive I am Haley Page let's all scream it Haley Page what was the fastest turnaround for a wedding dress it has to be my sister's no yeah so she had a surprise wedding good who surprised her well Haley thank you for coming on Chloe in Wonderland I'm so happy to have you here I'm on like this emotional rollercoaster with your story but before we get into that I would love for you to just sort of say who you are and what you do yeah yeah I am Haley Page yeah it's so fun to say for many obvious reasons yes let's all scream it yes and I'm a wedding dress designer also I'm a wedding dress designer and I'm a wedding dress designer and I'm a fashion designer so I did a little detour into shoes during a non-compete but I'm just a girl that loves pretty dresses and making women feel beautiful it's always been like my love language I feel and you started designing really young you were in your early 20s or probably younger than that yeah really young my grandmother taught me to sew and that early exposure was pretty much everything for me because it led me on the trajectory of just wanting to create and communicate that way through design and were you always fixated on wedding dresses yes became my identity very young in life and I think it was just a way to kind of express myself but also feel connected to what I wanted to say and it made me feel the most confident and at what age was that your niche it was the first dress I ever designed was a pink hot pink mini wedding dress no way and my mother was really really encouraging of creating bought me a sewing machine love that so and I think just growing up in the 90s being like a classic millennial I love Disney princesses represent romance all the good stuff so did you always fantasize about your own wedding like were you obsessed with weddings or you just had a gift for wedding dresses I think I was just obsessed with the idea of this one dress carrying so much memory and meaning and it kind of transcending just normal fashion because I mean as you know with fashion it can be so intimidating at times yeah to feel like you have to either be a certain shape or silhouette or have a vibe to pull something off and I feel like bridal is kind of the equalizer and that anyone can be a main character as the bride so I love that you've been so incredible about being as vulnerable as you are and being so open and honest about your journey you signed a deal when you were 25 it essentially was an employment contract and being at the stage I was in my designer journey it just was like the opportunity of a lifetime yeah right and like something I had always dreamed of doing and here I was getting the opportunity to ring lead my own collection and have my name you know up on lights everywhere everywhere around the show and I didn't want anything to jeopardize that I had never hired a lawyer to do that I didn't want to do that I didn't want to do that I didn't want to do that before I had no money to hire a lawyer you know so there are a lot of factors that kind of created an environment in which I mistook an opportunity for safety and didn't want to fumble it either because if I pushed back or if I was asking too many questions maybe they would see me as difficult and ultimately I was like I have a goal I just want to get out there and be a designer and you know so I I signed this contract without a lawyer and essentially gave the right for the company to be a lawyer and I was like I don't want to be a lawyer I don't want to be a lawyer to trademark my name and not to interrupt you but I think it is so important what you just said because you are not the only one that has done that this happens all the time and in so many different industries it could be music it can be doesn't matter fashion anything I have signed crazy things in my life that I'm like and I had lawyers they just maybe weren't great who knows but I'm like what the fuck did I just sign I want people to know how easy it is to get into a bad deal and with intimidation or anything like that and that's essentially what happened to you yeah and it also made me realize that a contract is really intellectual property software and software needs to be updated and so if you're in a situation where somebody is encouraging you to sign a long-term contract you're essentially trying to understand what you're going to be worth in x amount of years and when you don't know what your value is somebody else is going to define it for you and so in that scenario I really took away so many lessons from the legalese world of course which is what we definitely want to share through the non-profit now but it's more than that because it's a way for you to negotiate for yourself when you might not have the full picture the beginning you were 25 years old you signed with JLM Couture and at that time what was going on in your life I was pretty eager to just get out there and show people what I could do and I really have an optimism hardwired in my soul and I think that operating from a place like that can be reckless at times because you just think anything is figureoutable right anything can be negotiated and that was something I really tethered with because you just start operating and you have this amazing job which I did and I got to connect with all these women and design these dresses and say yes to the dress and yes it was just this great momentum and I just felt because this is going so well over here I don't want to ruffle feathers over here and someday I'll address this and it'll it'll work out right what were the dreams you had early on as a new up-and-coming wedding designer I feel like it was just about making women feel secure and doing that a very specific way I think growing up a gymnast and also just a girl you know you have your own insecurities and feelings of worthiness and trying to figure out where your worth and identity is tied to and dress wear is just something where I would watch a woman put a dress on and she would feel so good about herself and that was like a dopamine hit you know because it's the fact that we're communicating this way but I'm also creating something that she loves and then she makes it her own and there's like this passing of the torch and so I think that was the dream in itself is that feeling of this is my purpose well and I think it's so it says something so special about you that you are choosing to be a designer in a field that is truly the most special day in a woman's life and it's a dress that hopefully that person passes on to their daughter or their granddaughter and it's such like I'm not trying to discredit any other clothing everything is so special and people put so much time and effort into it but there it's like the wedding dress that is like the ultimate and the omega of clothing to people I mean and you have worn a wedding dress before yes I have did you feel like just the dress itself I still feel connected to it I do I got married nine days after getting engaged very quickly I knew my husband for 30 days so really nuts I was fortunate enough that somehow my mom called it Vera Wang and we were like we're getting married and then she's like come to New York and I'm like yeah come to New York and I'm like yeah come to New York and I'm like come to New York I think she thought like in a few months I'm getting married and then I go to the Vera Wang store in New York she's like so when's the wedding I'm like oh in like five days she's like oh so I was limited to what I could wear I still loved my dress I thought it was beautiful and timeless if I got to customize something at a time it would probably be just more extravagant not but I loved my dress it's classic I have it it's beautiful my bridesmaids dresses were all Vera and just it's so special and I'll remember that forever but you're right like how you feel in it if it's simple or princess-like you just feel like the most beautiful girl in the room right I guess that's the goal it is the extension of your love and your love story do you have a signature wedding dress do you think we run on whimsy I would say which includes a lot of texture and color a lot of unique juxtapositions we've done like laser cut some faux leather I like to do that with textiles because I actually graduated with a bachelor's of science in fiber science so you learn about the movements and behaviors of textures and so that kind of plays a role in it but we have like a rainbow wedding dress you know so we really like that yes and I do think that so much has changed that people love to have the variety and versatility now and they want to stand out and they want to do something different it's not your traditional wedding dresses anymore but that's so special and people that's it's their day they have the right to do whatever they want exactly go nuance what I find frustrating and infuriating and also so hard to imagine. This is your name, not only your brand, but it's your personal real name. And now your name gets taken away from you. What does that mean exactly? Like even on a personal level? It was actually during a negotiation period. So I was attempting to continue doing what I was doing. So there was a good faith negotiation effort. And during that period, there was just such a wide delta in the expectations and circumstances were so different than 10 years ago. And so the goalpost was just it was far. And I ended up getting served a lawsuit. And so that happened during COVID. And it was pretty jarring and scary. You know, like, am I going to jail? Yes. Straight to jail. It was really frightening. Was that your first lawsuit? Oh, yeah. Oh, the first one. The first one is, or like the first big one. The first big one, because I had a divorce, which was a different kind of lawsuit. Yes. No, the first real lawsuit, you just, you think you're going to jail. Gut punch. Yes. And like, what did I do? What did I do? And what happens? And do I go in front of a jury? Like you have, yes. Oh, my gosh. And you think of it like a night court. And then after your fifth, you're fine. I'm just kidding. You're like, this is a walk in the park. You're fine. Well, I look forward to getting there, but also not getting there. Oh, my gosh. It means you made it. That's all I think. Adulting hard. Hard core. Adulting. But it was really scary. And then there was an emergency TRO granted within a matter of days. So I had days to hire litigation, prepare my case. But a restraining order? Yes. Why? So it was. So a TRO is a restraining order. Yes. But why would. Temporary restraining order. Basically, there was arguments made about the name itself. Okay. And that there was harm of some sort, because that's basically how you get a TRO. And, you know, I was learning this on the street. I was learning this on the spot. But within a matter of 48 hours, I had to hand over all my personal passwords for my social media accounts. That quickly. And I couldn't touch anything. So, like, all my texts with my fiance, like, or DMs, you know, and, like, really private messages with your girlfriends and memes you don't want anyone seeing. Of course. If someone went through one of my DMs, I would be murdered. No, I would be. They would kill me. Yeah, so bad. That's not okay. And then the name. Which is kind of ludicrous, because it had been 30-something years of me using my name with no problem, and then all of a sudden I couldn't even say it at Starbucks. You know, so it was like, whoa, that's, like, I didn't even know what to do with it at that point, because it was so bizarre to me. And then the third part was really just a matter of, I'm not going to be able to work under this kind of duress. And so I actually resigned. And I was still technically under contract, because there were two years left. And so it was just so complex. There was a lot of nuance to understanding the lawsuit. It was COVID, so I had nothing better to do but to learn, okay, what have I done? Right. And how am I going to figure this out? Because the interesting thing about a contract is you have all these words on paper. Right. But then it's how it's being interpreted. Mm-hmm. And so to the degree to which it was being interpreted was where I just kind of felt gobsmacked, because I couldn't believe that so much was going on. And somehow she ends up having a better daily routine than I do. Peppermint already has multiple beds around the house, a rotation of toys, and honestly, I catch myself checking on her like she's a toddler. But if you're a dog parent, I feel like you get it. They really do become a part of the family. And if anyone understands that level of obsession, it's Ollie. They're just as obsessed with your dog as you are. 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Go to weightwatchers.com and use code CHLOE for an extra 20% off your first month. That's 20% off your first month. at weightwatchers.com with code CHLOE. Offer applies to select plans. Restrictions apply. And the offer ends May 31st, 2026. So I have a few questions that I don't even know if you know the answers to. So for your account that then got swiped from you, why couldn't you just change the handle of your name? So very good argument to make. Basically, the argument that they were making is that trademark law and because there was an intellectual property provision to my contract, that the two of those things tied together somewhat created a catch-all where anything bearing that name, Crazy. they would own the property of, right? So that was at least the argument, to my knowledge, that they were kind of making at that time. And to me, you know, I'm looking at it from the perspective of, well, it's an employment contract. I was a head designer. I wasn't a social media director. Social media became a thing, right? And I posted freely, but it's not like I was getting paid for it. I wasn't getting paid to post. You know, so there was arguments on both sides, but it really became this thing of like, like, hey, where's your Snapchat, your Pinterest, your TikTok? And so you can imagine all the hours that you pour into, and it is an extension of who you are. You at least try to be as authentic as you can on social media for the most part. No, that is so violating. So luckily that video that I posted went viral. Well, I was just going to ask. So you then go on this other account that doesn't have a lot of followers. How does that go viral? How does anything go viral? I don't really know. I really don't understand. It was community. It was the public court. And I say that with so much gentle kindness, because really that is what saved my entire life. The public court is the people showed up for me. They shared it. They told bridal stores, because I'm a B2B business mostly. So my dresses are sold to bridal stores. And you have these store owners that are like, wait, what? Haley's not behind the collection anymore. And wait, what? She's not behind her Instagram. And wait, wait, what? Right. Right. There was kind of that chain reaction. And you just had this compounding community rally. Well, that's amazing you had that. But this is like, so unbelievable to me. It's a little bananas. It's crazy. Yeah, it was bananas. I was not winning in the legal court. So that was scary. And that's so infuriating. You're like, this is my fucking name. I was born with this name. That's horrible. So one of the biggest issues in your lawsuit was your non-compete. And so what does that mean? To the people that are listening, what is a non-compete? It's essentially you agreeing to stay out of an industry for typically a designated period of time, right? Oftentimes, it comes with an exchange of money or monetary compensation. And it is a way for a business to protect, oftentimes, its proprietary technology or their proprietary goods, right? And so in my situation, it's art. So it's not really, like, proprietary. But I was put under the two-year non-compete of my contract. And then two, like, days before that non-compete was up, there was another argument made that it was an extension of five years. Stop. Yeah. And that one wasn't so much tied to the name, Haley Page, but me, Haley Page, the person. Which means you can't design elsewhere? I couldn't design using my name or design wedding dresses at all, no matter what name I used, right? And that, after that, I was like, I'm not going to do that. I'm not going to do that. And that actually stuck in the district court. So then I was under a five-year non-compete, and I wasn't getting commission or paid. So it was essentially a seven-year unpaid non-compete in the full story. And not that this matters, but could you design different categories? I could. Okay. So that was really the pivot in my brain that made sense. It was like, okay, I can't design wedding dresses. I am going to even stay away from dresses because I don't want anything to be misconstrued. At that point, I felt like I was really being watched. And I was even found in contempt of court for sketching on social media. And so that was like- You have got to be kidding me. I was in big trouble. It was a very, very scary time. Scary time, but also, you must be a big threat. Do you know what I mean? That's nice. In a way, you're like, okay, you guys are so concerned about little old me. It's a little flattering now that we're past it. At the time, I'd be like, contempt of court? That sounds so scary. It's all- Insane because you're sketching. Sketching on social media on that other account, right? But it was considered promotional and argued that way. And so at that point, I was like, okay, well, I'm not going to sit for five years and have a victim consciousness. That's not going to do any good for me. And so luckily, again, this community rally was like, go design something else. And so shoes were totally non-competitive, right? I mean, I'm sure you could just wear shoes as a wedding dress, but let's not try to- Oh, no. Make that reach of an argument. But I did shoes for a while and I changed my name publicly to Cheval, which is the French word for horse. And so I built a new brand around that. But what was your personal name? I had my legal name that I couldn't use publicly or in any business or commerce. But if I met you, I can be like, hi, Haley. But you said at Starbucks, you couldn't say your name. Yeah. I would not be able to give you permission to use the name. Oh, my gosh. And it was pretty- Pretty intense because it was, the problem is, is that now that you have social branding and you have personal branding, you're technically advertising, right? Right. And so if a name is a trademark and I am that person, it was just so convoluted that it was like, it's not even worth it, you know? And so for a good period of the two years, I was going by a girl you might know. I was like, I'm just a girl. You might know, maybe not. Yeah. No, but it's clever and cute. And I love that. So that was the vibe. What insanity. Okay. I'm sorry I interrupted you about the shoes. I'm so sorry. I'm just like- No. It is- It's mind-blowing. A little hard to believe at times, but it also helped me that it was so unbelievable because it really did get the attention of a lot of legal people, attorneys, you know, big law firms. It got the attention of Senator Warren for, you know, come to speak at Congress, give your testimony on non-competes. And so there was, to every part of my journey where there was this feeling of like an anchor, I also had a sale. And so like, I got to choose between the two. I love that. I was like, I'm going to keep staying positive, just more responsibly positive, you know, and not feel like this, actually this scary lawsuit is my identity. Because that's where I think I would have really lost myself. Yeah. But I love that you've taken negatives and you've turned them into positives and you do find the sale and everything. And what made you pick the name? It really was just a fun process of, what name did I like? Right? And there were moments where I would just go listen to music and kind of get in a zone. And I kept going back to the song by America, which was A Horse With No Name. That's like a little bit of humor. I was going to say this sort of just, it embodies your whole story. Yes. I was like, horse and then Cheval. And I was like, oh, there's a Cheval Blanc restaurant my mentor took me to once. And I love that name. And it felt very elegant and, but also strong and masculine. And, you know, like I'm going to make sure circumstances are not in the driver's seat from here on out and like run against the wind. And so I, I just liked that name and went with it. Did you ever feel like you were losing hope? Yes. Yeah. Yeah. There was definitely a lot of moments of just, you, you do need to sit with your grief because there's obviously something that's missing. Right. And you feel it like that emptiness. And I always get like a little emotional when I think about, oh, sorry, at the bride. Don't be sorry. Sorry. You know what? It shows how much passion and love you have for what you do and you getting emotional for the brides. I think that's why everyone is rooting and rallying for you. People spread your story because it's not that you're just some designer that's doing something in autopilot and just doing it for money. You're doing it for these women and you are crusader. And I think the horse is so fitting because I think of you as, you know, the princess. Yes. Charming. But, you know, on the white horse and coming in to save the day. And that's like when I heard the name, that's what I thought of. I'm like, of course, this white horse, white wedding dress. And yeah, it was one of those things where when you put your problem out into the world, you know, that people are going to feel the weight of it. And I just didn't want it to tarnish all these beautiful moments that these brides have had, you know, because life can really kick you. You know, gut punch you and also feel like, okay, I'm learning these lessons. It feels like a roundhouse kick to the face, but like I'm learning these things that I needed to know the long scenic route. But there was something where I just didn't want it to the residual stress to impact those moments. Right. Right. And I actually didn't experience that. I had so much support from these brides, but I also just felt like I couldn't communicate with as many of them as I wanted to on social and like, let them know that like they should go buy a Haley page. What you're showing for other people, like, okay, I made these mistakes. Don't copy what I do, but you're doing it in a way that's so relatable. And even when you go and talk in front of Congress and you're doing something that's so intimidating and big, you're still doing it, but for the voice of everyone else that didn't have a voice for the voiceless. And I just think that's really big of you. And I think so much of why you are now where you are and like you've gone full circle and now you're out on top is because of the spirit you have. Cause not everyone can do that. Thank you. Um, it's been really shapeshifty, you know, and like you said, when you go through things where part of you breaks it, you realize it's a shedding and that there is something you can leave behind and that's okay because the strongest pieces are left and that's what you take with you to rebuild. Um, and that's just something I've just kept close to the heart of like, you're never actually starting. Over ever because your experience, your credibility, even your mistakes have got you to where you are now, you know? And so like seeing the full picture and I, I bet you read some Carl Yoon with cosmic relevance and thinking of how, when, when you scale out and you really think about how special it is to be in the position you're in, to be alive and to have your faith and have your family and have all these things, you know, you start to realize, that it's just so rare. And so to get caught up in the weeds of these things that feel so circumstantial at times or feel like they're pulling you back or they're breaking parts of you it's okay because it's death to certain parts of your ego leave it behind right and then rebuild and but such a beautiful mentality because not everyone has that mindset but we do have to not let those things let them crumble us we have to use them and make it better and stronger and you're right like even the most traumatic things like the light it's the shedding the light does still come in that's right something that i am mind blown on so in your non-compete which this is like so stupid to me and frustrates me it said that you can't wear a wedding dress on your own wedding so the way the non-compete was phrased is it wasn't um just tied to the name right it was me the human being as well and what was scary about basically being in contempt of court for sketching online is that the argument was made about promotion because social media is promotion yes and so when i really thought about it in that situation because my fiance and i had gotten engaged in 2019 seven years later we're still engaged but we just thought about okay but if we were to get married first of all it's weird because like does can does he say my name can he say my name like if it's filmed no if there are competitive. Oh, this is crazy. Right. So it wasn't really addressed in that moment during lawsuit. But it's one of those things where I was like, you know what? It's not worth it. I'm almost bankrupt here anyway. So like, let's take a beat. You know, and my fiance has been my rock this whole entire time. So he was like, let's let's bench this for a bit and we'll revisit it when we can, you know, or when it makes sense. So do you think you have like trauma to get married because of all of this? It's just too much. We during that time definitely felt like just a lot of components that were dramatic and traumatic. Yeah. And I guess, too, there was a big part of me that thought legally if I was to go like massively in debt, which I did, you know, for my legal bills, like, why would you want to marry me? You know, like if I have debt, you know what I mean? And so like I was thinking about all of those things. Um, just in that moment of time. And so it feels really cool that as a couple, we have grown so much because when we first met, we were like very content couple-y, like bake-offs and we were in a different stage of life. Right. And then we went through this like explosion of things. And so we came out of it. We went through it together and grew, but we came out very different people, but still very dedicated to each other, which is wonderful. And now that we're like finally planning the wedding and we're getting married and all this good stuff is happening. We have a wedding dress that we can design it. Um, it just feels like we really appreciate the, the shoulder to shoulder and like the standing through the rain. I love that. So it it's, it's nice. It is nice. I'm definitely going to cry all over my wedding. As you should. I want to tell you guys about something I've been taking that I honestly wish I'd found sooner. 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Their formulas don't just look good on your skin, they're actually working to improve your skin over time. Skincare property is built into every product. That's their whole thing. And once you try it, you immediately feel the difference. Their vibe is what I call effortless and elevated, that no-makeup makeup look that somehow makes you look like you just woke up, glowy and rested. They call it the Signature Say Glow, and it's kind of the through line across everything they make. A few products I have to mention. The Glowy Super Gel is their number one bestseller, and it has a cult following for a good reason. It's lightweight, non-comedogenic, and it gives you that lit-from-within glow that doesn't look like a product. It just looks like great skin. The Slip Tint Tinted Moisturizer is another one that I love. It's sheer and dewy, and it has SPF 35 built in with non-nano zinc oxide, so you're protecting your skin while you're wearing it. And the Dew Blush, a liquid cream blush that blends seamlessly and gives the most beautiful stained glass effect on the cheeks. No streaks, no harshness, just a wash of pretty color. And the timing on this is genuinely great, because Sephora's Spring Savings event kicks off April 10th with up to 20% off. Start building your basket with Say now. I want to hear about your journey to the Senate and like how crazy that is and how like, first of all, I cannot public, I have to public speak, but I just want to die every time. What? You're so good at speaking. That's crazy. Oh my gosh, I cannot handle it. Even this, I'm always like talking and I'm listening. Oh my gosh, I'm supposed to be like running this show and like steering this, navigating it, because I get so into it and I like to actively listen. And so when I'm also doing something public speaking, I don't want to memorize. I was going to say, do you like memorizing or no? Because you never have to memorize for your show or for like. No, and I just, I'm such a chit-chatter that I just want to. Chatty catty. Yeah, just like talk and hang with you. But I'm like, oh my gosh. I feel like the Senate would appreciate that. Oh my gosh, that's too scary for me. But tell me about that. Tell me about your journey there and your advocacy work. So Senator Warren slid into my DMs, believe it or not. Amazing. Which was incredible. I was like, wait, what is happening? I'm getting catfished. That is amazing. She had followed the story and she watched Say Yes to the Dress. And so. That is so cute. She's been fighting for banning non-competes, the FTC and the whole shebang. And so she just said, I'd love for you to come testify and tell your story. And what was really poetic about it was that I had actually just gotten my intellectual property back in a bankruptcy court. Amazing. And so this was maybe a month later that I was being invited to tell the story, start to finish. And I think during the lawsuit, there were parts where I just was so afraid that something I was saying would be misinterpreted or used against me in the court of law. Which it could be. Yes. It's horrible. You're on the other side of it. And now I'm like, oh, like my shoulders went down. Like I can, I can breathe. And I, I actually went into it very nervous as well, but with something, with a bit of resolve, because first of all, I just have to tell my story, which is the easiest thing in the world when you're just saying what happened. Right. But I also just felt this, Elle Woods like pomp and pageantry of it that this is it girls like like let's go girls you know kick down the door and like wear a pink suit and so I just like really went into it because I couldn't believe it I felt like God was giving me this moment to like get up there and just say like here here's what happened and here's why you need to be careful when you sign these contracts you know and so that's really what it meant to me and my parents were there and Conrad came and my lawyers came so it was like moment and it's just camaraderie going in together yes during all of this and you going through that journey and then getting your name back in the bankruptcy court all of that but on this way were people through your new social media account were they telling you that they've been in similar situations like what made you start your non-profit yes so after we had put the problem out isn't that what the senate also what you were speaking don't they sort of align they do okay the non-profit is really about providing advocacy to young entrepreneurs and creators especially during those formative years when they're likely to fall prey to one-sided or predatorial contracts right and they're operating with minimal resources luckily we do have like chat gpt and these things that you could just throw the contract in let's see what it says insane now but it is lawyers still cannot be replaced I will say Haines Boone is great my legal team was fabulous but it um it really was this way to create conversation about what's going on here because especially in the influencer world and personal branding world where you have these exclusivity contracts you sign all these perpetuities all this name and likeness stuff you've got ai coming into the picture now who owns what and it it really is complex and convoluted and everyone is almost at a disadvantage if you're not investing and learning from it and so our non-profit has funding for contracts we provide access to low bono and pro bono attorneys because a number of law firms are required to have pro bono hours served and so many lawyers and law firms reach out to me because of the case they're like what's happening what's happening over here you know and that's crazy let me help with other creators and so we do that and then we also just share mostly female stories but stories of you know kate spade halston bobby brown I mean I am not special in that this has happened before and it unfortunately probably will happen again and so the best we can do is try to get ahead of it and we're going to do that and we're going to do that and we're going to do that and we're going to do that and we're going to do that and not scare creators just arm them with the right right resources right to at least start out on the right foot and not feel like they're being difficult just because they're trying to understand a contract or ask questions I forgot about the kate spade one I like remember that so vividly now but the one thing I will share is that we did change case law which is amazing that is amazing my case one of the things that was particularly strange was the social media element right because like how can it be a catch-all I was a designer why would I be a designer why does a social media account have anything to do with a trademark right why didn't they just change the handle name and so what we proved after two trips to an appellate court so they had to do two huge appeals yes they found basic property law can be applied to a social media account so unless the account was transferred or sold or written into a contract to transfer over it belongs to the original holder and opener of the account thank goodness and so I got my congratulations and then I was so you did get your account back I did I got it back gosh I'm like at this point screw those people not your account but the people that stole I'm like this is crazy I want everything back but it was also so funny because I had all these dms where like you'll see a dm from like 2021 and it's like like I'm give her account back no and then the next one is like four years later and it's like hi sunshine oh my gosh I'm so happy you're back the duality of it but also just to see how everyone runs and how everyone runs and how everyone runs and how everyone runs and how so many of them aren't people you don't know and it's so incredible like I yeah sometimes social media can get really overwhelming but then other there's so much good to it as well how did it make you feel to use your name for the first time after you won all your lawsuits and you were able to be creative and free of all of what was going on it was a bit indescribable I bet I immediately thought of my parents because Mimi and Jeff you know they're like they felt like they were like they had done something wrong right like Mimi and Jeff we have yes should we have given them you know a lawyer you know and I think the fact that they named me and here I was doing something where some people were like oh well you sold your name and it's like no I got a job like you know this was a big problem that happened yes I admit the mistake I shouldn't have signed the contract but getting the name back and feeling like I got to discover who I was without a name I got to find out yes I love that my identity is wedding dresses but it's also so many other things yes and so I learned so much in that journey and so now when I say my name it comes with this just real gratitude um and humility and like fortitude because like I fought for it and got it back and this is my name yes but it's just crazy that this could even happen it is it is nuts to me I keep going back to sign a contract and basically sign away your constitutional rights and that's what people don't realize is like you believe as a human you have these rights right but there could be contracts where you actually sign your rights away without even knowing it or if it's interpreted a certain way right and so it's just good to take a beat as much as you want the opportunities just to know that you're at least giving yourself a fair chance to not be in a situation like that going through all of this was there anything you did for yourself like what were things that you would do because I've gone to trial I've done court I've been sued and it's horrible is there anything that you would do to like get you through your days did you start like I'm someone I work out all the time and it's a release for me it's not about the scale it's mentally I need that release is there something that you did you'll appreciate this because movement was far more profound in my ability to deal with my situation than manifesting yeah or just motivation even it was okay I'm not feeling great I'm gonna go on a walk okay I'm gonna go for a workout okay I'm gonna go jump on a trampoline you were able to do that because some people get really depressed and they just don't yeah do anything it's something I would encourage people to almost force and start small you know like totally do 10 squats in the bathroom and like notice how your physiology just changes yeah and it's also really a good distraction of you feel productive when you're working out and I'm sure you have like your routine you know you get up you get your workout in and you just feel like you're starting your day ahead it sets the tone it does and like it is so up here it's great for your body but it is up here where all that that work is actually being done I tell people that all the time and I know a lot of the times it's easier said than done you don't need a trainer you don't need a private gym because people are like must be nice for you to say I'm like okay well you don't need a private gym you can go on a walk outside especially like the sunlight or just and like you said 10 squats in the bathroom it's not even about running a marathon sometimes you just need to move your body a little bit and your blood flow it's so silly and simple like we don't need all these extras but it works wonders it's changed my life and it's not about like now I'm like oh I have a tricep which I never had 10 years ago and so and those things are sense of accomplishment for me because I yeah it's proven my determination and dedication so for that but what it does for me psychologically is so much more than I've ever understood until I until I started living it it's a total game changer now that you have your name back and you did have Chevelle do you still have Chevelle I do you do yes and where do they merge under one fashion house we're trying to figure that out right now actually and because you're a branding mogul you know oh my gosh I can figure your brain but it's one of those things where okay dedicated all this time to a small business we were manufacturing the shoes we start to finish and it was just me and one business partner and so it was a heavy lift for you yeah that is and you've done shoes because those are so shoes are so different because all the size size runs you're guessing don't tell me you're doing widths too of course because you have a wedding you have and then like 10s 11s 12s and then people want custom shoes and you're like I don't even think I can do that are you doing the three widths weird we only did three widths and then you're like I don't even think I can do that and then we cut down to like full sizes but like I don't think what people realize is you have to buy your inventory yes and you're okay how many size eight and halves am I gonna sell well I don't know that's why so and people don't realize why so many people don't do half sizes or don't go all the way up right yeah because of the just differences it's so much money too and then storing like there's so much the majority of the time it's like oh my gosh I don't know how to do it I don't know how to do it that goes all into it and then people want the turnover because they want new stuff and like what do I want to do with all this other shit I know but it's it really I learned so much about business obviously it was great but then when I got the intellectual property back and I was like okay well I'm going to bridal like I'm full speed ahead like we're going back into bridal I basically just gave myself permission to say this is a small business with very dedicated loyal customers I don't need to be this right now I just need to maintain so that I can go over here and get back what I love the most. find a way to kind of brand them somehow. And we did do a number of shoes that feel very bridal that you can pair with the dresses. But, you know, I'm just managing it the best I can and trying to make sure that I'm giving my best effort because I do feel like I want to make up for lost time a little bit, especially in bridal. And so we've got great shoes in the collection. And so at least right now, it's just about maintaining it and then figuring out how we can scale at some point. What part of your, like, creative identity do you find the most fulfilling right now? I still very much lead with love, which is such a cliche thing to say. No, I love that. But it is like, I just love it so much. And I love that I get to do it again. And I love that people love that for me. And so it's just this loop of real security in my life of, okay, I thought I got it back. And here we are again. You know, it's not crazy. There's like that reunited. It feels so good. Yeah, for sure. But I feel like I didn't lose my whimsy through the wicked parts. And you can, like, life will beat it out of you. And if you just pay attention to who you really are in those moments where your identity is being tested or really circumstances are working against you and reach for what that is, even when you're in your lows. You can still hold on to that. Keep that pilot light on. For me, that was creativity and creating things for women. So. I think people need to hear that more than ever right now. So that's beautiful. This is silly, but what is one bridal trend that you're loving right now? I love a good basque waist. At first I was, I don't know, because sometimes with the basque waist, so that's when you have like this really deep V in the front. It's very Wuthering Heights, very like Renaissance, very like. Pirate core. We have very designer terms over here, but I think it is super flattering on proportion and it gives you this room to play with your hip shape and get that hourglass shape. So for me, I'm so straight up and down a bit and I've always wanted like that curvy, like beautiful, like snatched waist. And I think the basque is something that gives you that proportion. And I love that the tighter corsets are coming back. I love the tighter corsets. Yes. Snatch the waist. So insane. But color is also super fun. A lot more brides are open to color options, which I think is great. What do you think the top like three colors are that aren't white? Blush, blue, and champagne. Oh, blue is interesting. I've actually never, I don't think I've seen a blue wedding dress. Yes. No, but I get, I'm like, duh, I get it. But like a soft powder blue. Yes. What was the fastest turnaround for a dress, a wedding dress that you've been asked to do? Oh, it has to be my sister's. No. Yeah. So she had a surprise wedding. Oh my, who surprised her? Well, she surprised everyone. Surprise, we're getting married. I'm like, wait, this is like so crazy. Oh my God, that would be epic actually. No, she surprised you guys. Got it. I'm like, that's a risky game. Yes. She surprised all of her guests and no one knew except me and basically my parents and the groom. But she and I both went through divorces, but the going back to it. She was like, okay, I'm getting married in two days. And so it was kind of similar to your situation because you're like, what can you do for me? And as a designer, I actually think it's this fun challenge because you're like, okay, let's go, you know, get the scissors, let's figure this out. And so she did pick something from the existing collection because it's really hard to whip up a dress in two days, but we did tailor it to perfection and she, she loves Rod Stewart. So I did like a hand embroidery of a Rod Stewart lyric on the inside of it. That is so cute. I still made it special, but it was a, that was a pretty quick turnaround. If you can design anyone's wedding dress, who would it be? Yours. Thank you. What would you design for me? Oh my gosh. Like, do you design? Yeah. Ooh, ooh, ooh. Gosh, you would look so, I mean, okay. And that's on the spot. I know I hate. My brain is spinning. No, no, no. When people ask me things, I'm like, what's your favorite movie? I really love a Basquist for you. Okay. I think we need something that's a bit more. Moody and structured, but like has like an architectural vibe to it, but like a hint of whimsy. I would want to like really push up the neckline, like give that sexiness talk to me. And like, we have to show off the triceps. So I would, I would go strapless, but I want some like really fabulous seam work in the bodice love. And then I think this skirt, we go a little bit more dramatic, like still structured, but I think I want to see you in like more of a ball gown. Yes. Okay. Of course. I love it. Of course. Here's like turning me on. Oh, I don't know. We would. We feel like you're flirting with me. And we need like, we need like five looks. Sure. We do. And I sort of want them all really different. Yes. Eclectic. Yes. Oh, for sure. You are versatile. Have you seen you? I mean, I just like to be. You can wear a trash bag, which we won't put you in. Okay, sure. No, just kidding. You look amazing. I like to just try sort of anything and everything. It's just fun. Yeah. We got to play dress up. Are you veil or no veil? Veil. Yeah, right? Every time. Because it's just a moment anyway. So have it. I don't understand why people don't wear a veil. It's your wedding. It is like a nuisance sometimes. Like if you're outside and it's windy and you got to get the weight right. Yes. But I just think it's the drama. It completes the look. Yes. And like go big or go home. I love the drama. But you're asking. Yeah. Big wedding or intimate wedding? Oh, gosh, both. I would say. I do one of each. Yeah, that's my girl. Okay. Yes. Classic dress or dramatic dress? Dramatic. I know that answer. That's silly. Yeah, I can't not. Okay. Do you want a first look or an aisle reveal? Aisle reveal. Right? Yes. And then do the like your fake first look photos after? Yes. Yes. Skip the cocktail hour. Let your guests get to know each other and then come into the dinner. I agree. Yeah. I love the aisle reveal. Yeah. Destination wedding or hometown wedding? Destination. Really? Yeah. I think it is really fun to give your guests, because people are going to be flying in anyway, but to make it feel like a bit of a vacation, like a retreat. And like that's their gift to you, or like their gift to you for coming to your wedding. Yes. We're not going to register or anything because I feel like making people travel, it's like. Yes. And I think that's so kind when people press about that gift. I'm like, you just flew to Italy. No. Oh, we're doing Italy now. I love this. Oh, yes. We're going to Italy. Perfect. How's it like planning your own wedding? It's a bit chaotic because we're like, I'm still in transition of designing the collections. Our new collection's coming out in like four days. Oh, my gosh. And we just did the first one in Palm Beach six months ago. And then I'm designing for my wedding. Right. Your personal next launch. Yes. So there's a lot of overlapping layers. And I would say one thing that's great. While I do care about the details, I have so many great service professionals, like wedding planners. Sam Coma is like insanely cool and talented. And I can just be like, you've got this. So you're not a big bridezilla. I don't think I'll, I don't know. Maybe. I was super chill about mine, but it was more bridezilla. Yeah. It was more my mom like needed to have a wedding for us, one of us. And I was like, yeah, you like. I could see that happening. Do it. She's like, I got this. Yeah, she's like, I got this. And I loved that. Me thinking about napkins or I'm like, what the? I don't even, I can't process all that. I just wanted to get married. Yeah. So I was, I would have showed up anywhere. I would have done a courthouse wedding. I didn't care about that. I'm so happy I had my wedding. I love it. But I don't think I could have handled the planning. There's too many questions. But you're so detail oriented. I know. I know you're like a little OCD because so is my fiance. Yes. And like, I feel like. You have just a detailed brain. Yes. And so like caring about that stuff just is such a good thing, you know? It is, but I think I would care too much about everything. So I was like, you know what? You do you, girl. What's next for you? I mean, you just told me 15 things that you're doing. That stuff, for sure. Yeah. Look, I don't have time to think about this. We definitely need to get on our save the dates because we're getting married this year. We were like seven years and then all of a sudden I'm like, it's too soon. You didn't send out your save the dates yet? No. Okay. I'm a professional, I swear, but in this moment. But no, I do feel I want to be careful to be super mindful right now and like present because there's a part of me that has felt like I've been on the hamster wheel running and running and running for my life, you know, and then now I'm like rebuilding and I want to get this back out there and I've got this small business and now we're getting married. And you're doing a lot at one time. Yeah. And I get nervous that I'm like, okay, am I here? Right now, present in this moment, because a lot of times I just feel like, what's next? You know, so I would say what's next is that I need to just be like. Yeah. Present. Yeah. I get that. Do you see yourself expanding from the bridal world into a different category? I know keeping shoes, keeping bridal. Yes, I would. That's amazing. But I would also want to take advice from people that have really learned how to brand properly because. I think for me, I've just been really focused in the bridal world, and then when I started my small business, like I really understood my own limitations and what I needed to learn. And it's so important to bring people into your atmosphere that are really good at what they do. Yes. And that you can trust and that they can handle the job, you know, and like right now I have that with my bridal company. I still independently own it, but I have this amazing manufacturing distribution sales team with Maddie Lane Bridal. And so I want that if I was to do anything else where it's like, you've got this amalgamation of specialty people doing what they're good at. What they do their whole career. But what about you? Is there an area that you've been wanting to go into? Because I mean, your branding is so beautiful and so many different categories that are all different. Thank you. But is there one that is tapping you on the shoulder a little bit that you've not gone into yet? Not right now. So I turned 40 almost two years ago. I can't believe that. And I started, this podcast and I didn't really, and all these things like, you know, contracts we were talking about. I started this podcast, Fragrance and my snack food brand, Cloud. They all came out at the same time, but that was never the intention. And I am just, I love each one of them. They're all so different and I love each one of them, but I don't want to just be like, okay, and now I'm going to do this and I'm going to do that. I really, really want to marinate with each one. And I think that is important because I love each one and I've never done snacks before. So I'm like, I have to really engross myself in this field because I don't know a lot about it. I go to food expos and do these things too. That sounds like a dream. You get to go try snacks. Yes. You go around to different booths and you do things like that, but things that I've never done because I didn't have a reason to. Fashion, I feel like I know really, really well, either from the buying side, from owning a clothing store. And so the like podcasting, I was like, what the hell am I doing here? I had to learn more about it. In season one, our format was a little different than season three because we had to try things to see what stuck and even what I like out of it. And so a lot of, right now I feel so fulfilled with everything I'm doing, but they're all babies. So I still have to watch my babies right now. Yes. Vertically integrate. Yes. And so maybe in a few years, if you ask me, I'll have a different answer. But right now I'm like, no, I'm kicking ass trying to educate myself. More about all of these different fields that I love so much. And it's exciting because not that I was ever bored with what I was doing before, but there was so much that I just, no, it's autopilot. And I'm like, TV, I got this clothing. I got this. And I'm like, so now doing different things that are newer, it is like this new surge of energy that I have and passion. Yeah. And there's like a tendency for people to think, especially with somebody who is so visible, you know, and just like has this amazing community behind her, that it's like, oh, she's going into this and hit it and quit it, you know? And it's like, no, like so much goes into these launches. So much does. And perfecting it. And like, again, being OCD or being detailed, like I can imagine you're like, you know, so like the care that goes into it is so important. I feel like you're a lot like me because you keep talking about your audience and I care so much about ever giving out like wrong information. So I do my best to, you know, sometimes I forget like, oh, people are watching this. Like it's not just the people in here. It's not just you and me. No, like it's so, I'm so used to this that sometimes I can forget. So I'll say like silly things are inappropriate, but like I genuinely want to believe in anything that I'm doing because I know how much that matters to the people that are rallying behind me. And I know how hard it is to make money. I know how hard people work and I never want to take advantage of that. And so I'm always, and really, really thoughtful. I try to be with what I'm doing and what the messaging I'm putting out there. Cause I know how much it matters and how, especially in today's day, we like want hope and something to hold on to. I'm like, I hope I'm giving the right messaging and putting the right energy out there. Cause it does make a difference. And you're, I can tell you're like that too. And it's important because so many people just frivolously do things. That's so wonderful, Chloe. Like it's very inspiring. Thank you. Yeah. And, um, special because it, it reminds people that no matter like where you are in your life, caring about how people receive you, you know, that's, that's the real karma. That's the real stuff that matters that compounds over time, you know, cause, cause fortune can change, but who you are, like, that's something to build on. Yes. Well, thank you. I want you to, um, remind everyone about your nonprofit and your app. So the, um, the nonprofit is called a girl you might know. Yes. Foundation. So with little cheeky fun, uh, play off of that phrase and yeah, it's a girl you might know foundation.org where all the information is. And then Haley page.com is the main bridal. And then I have miss Haley page back, which is the Instagram we fought hard to get crazy. And so, but now I have like a hundred Instagrams because I like all these other ones. Don't you wish you could like somehow merge them? I know. Cause I don't want to fatigue my audience too. Or yourself. Yeah. Or that. I'm like, it is exhausting. It's even just going from like Instagram to Tik TOK. I'm like, Oh, I can't. Do you take the millennial? No, no. Same. I am like, how do I take the talk? Like, and cause they're, they're different. It's different content. It's very raw. And I'm like, I want, no, this isn't raw to be camera ready. Yes. No, we're not raw. So I'm not, you know, the heart. Yeah. The heart. But this is, I'm like, this is glam. I do not wake up like this match. So yeah, it's, it's tough. But, um, other than that, that's where they can find me in, in stores now. So bridal stores. And don't you have an app or did I make that up? Yeah, I do have, um, so I actually do have an app. It's called Holy Match Emoji, which is a, it's a emoji app. And it was actually, I was inspired by Kim's. The emoji. Oh my gosh. The Holy Match Emoji. I love that. That is so cute. But now you can like make an app like that in chat GPT in like five minutes. And it took me like two years to create the vectors. No, I know. It's crazy. It's kind of. It's elite, but, um, and then we do have, she is Cheval, which is the shoe brand. So. Well, you are busy. You are a busy girl, but I'm so happy for you. Everything is so positive. And that is your karma because you deserve all the positive and all the love and all the success. And I'm so happy for you. Yeah. Thank you for being here. And thank you for all that you do for these young men and women, both of them, but you help so many people and letting them just feel like there's light or at least a place they can. If they have questions or feel like they're struggling themselves or not getting themselves in bad situations. So thank you so, so much.