Sofia Franklyn Has Daddy issues

The following podcast is a dear media production. Welcome back to the Not Skinny Bonafat podcast. I'm your host Amanda Hirsch and I still can't believe that I get to chat with some of my favorite stars on my very own podcast where you'll feel like you're just talking shit with your best friends in your living room. Okay guys, I'm not going to do a long intro today because it is an episode I can't wait for us to get into. I think you'll be able to tell in this episode how excited I am about this guest and about her story and about her new book Daddy Issues. I came in so hot with so many questions and just so what like I said in the interview, brain explosion emoji about all of it that if I come in hot you guys and if I'm literally like don't take a breath it's because of how just obsess I am with all of this and with my guest today. It's Sophia Franklin, the original call her Daddy podcast who's six years after everything that went down is coming out with her book Daddy Issues, the detail her side of the story. It comes out today if you're listening on Tuesday it comes out today so you can order it and listen to it we get into all of it here but of course there's even so much more in the book and I say this on the podcast but I'm I'm at Sophia and for the man I met her I was like this girl's the real deal and I get how that podcast was what it was it's because that's who she is and as we all know by the story she got majorly fucked so I just came in with so many questions and especially and even more questions after reading her book Daddy Issues so enjoy Sophia Franklin. 5.30 flight either 4.30 leave at 3.30 be be out of it but are you going straight from here? Oh yeah she has time to kill. I'm ready for you. I'm ready for I am I've been ready for you my whole life. I swear. You swear. Do you feel the same way about me? I do. I actually took you in it but okay. When we did the Hulu show. Yeah kind of immediately. I got it. I felt it too. But do you tell all your guests? No. Okay. No. Okay. I really did it not only that babe and this is when you know it's real I went on to tell anybody and everybody they you're the real fucking deal. Really? And that's my like that's my thing for you. Sophia Franklin the real deal. Thank you for saying that. That's truly what I think. And that makes me really happy and I know you're not bullshitting because Taylor Shrecker was like Amanda loved you. Yeah. And I told her. I told her mainly too. I was like I fucking love her and when I say real deal I mean like real deal as a person. Right. But the real deal also when it comes to everything that happened. Right. And the podcast that you had. Right. And what you talked about in the life you lived. Mm-hmm. And the life you were born into. Yeah. Like all of those things together make it so like what we met you as was real. Right. Who you are. Right. Who you are. That's a really good way to put it when you say real deal. Yeah. That's kind of I mean if you think about this story it's been this kind of not that people necessarily have been saying you know she's a liar but my truth was not taken as truth. It just didn't exist you know. So six years later we get the truth. Yeah. Your new book. If you're listening daddy issues. Go get it. Go get it. Obviously the day this comes out as a day. It comes out but I'm sure you can pre-order it now. Yeah. You waited six. At the end of the day I know things take time but we waited six years to get your story. That's a long fucking time. Can you tell me like why you waited this long. Mm-hmm. And I have like there's multiple reasons. I think the biggest one is I needed time away from it so that I could approach it from a real deal raw honest way. Yeah. Because if not if I would have tried writing this three years ago I would have told it truthfully but through the lens of like revenge and prove people right. You know what I mean. Totally. And so I had to like really untrust me like during the writing process I had to show some restraint for sure. You were. You were. And there were moments where I was like so fear you you know you're you're trying to prove a point right now and you can't really bullshit in memoir is another thing I realized. I think you know in a YouTube video or short form content you can get away with that more but this is like an unfoldsing of a person of a story. I mean I actually know that I'm thinking about it wasn't a million little pieces like a full lie. Right that memory wasn't that also is like a one thing. Right. That's one example but I I said this I think before we started recording and in case I said it before I want you to know that I read the book I finished in two days my listeners know I'm not a huge reader so that's like that means that I like couldn't put it down. I told you it is amazing. It is reverting. It is well fucking written. Which I saw early kind of reviews talking about a ready like people are saying how well it is written. There were paragraphs and times where like body chills were happening. And and it's amazing. I still can't believe being a person in this industry as well. I could even more so I feel like be able to imagine. I could never truly but like I know this world. I know what it could fucking feel like to have it all taken away from you. So I couldn't imagine I even got shoulders now. I did too. I can't imagine you being in that situation. I know there are teams. I know there are people in their ear. I know all these things. How are you not screaming from the rooftops your truth for six years? How did that restrain happen? Because that was like I didn't know how to talk about it. And I kind of saw what I was up against. And it was way bigger than me. Yeah. And then what I tried to do is I tried to just like deny that that was a part of my history. Like you just move on business as usual. Call it so few with enough. Yeah. Stop bringing up call her daddy. Yeah. Stop bringing up like you are doing your own thing now. You are your own person like pave your own way. And I wanted to like just it was such an ugly thing. But also let's just separate you from that. And I was kind of trained a little bit to do that as well. From from what? Just like publicist agents and a lot of conflicting advice around that. That's so hard to navigate. Yeah. One second it's stop like bringing that up, you know. Right. And just be you don't need to talk about that. Right. And you're like dwelling. And like let's let's do let's be the new Sophia. Yeah. And then every once in a while get feedback like no go there. Yeah. You know. And it's hard to decide. And it's hard. It's hard to navigate. So I think for those reasons and this is a long-winded answer girl who has a has a flight at 530. Meaning we have just like answering the longest way possible. Like I know where to wait for my flight after that. It was like they said okay you guys have this much time and I am taking it. I got in the last couple years I was like I want to start doing stuff that I actually am passionate about. Feel creative about. I wanted to do this show. And I'm not going to get I will get too crazy if I tell you what it was about. And I realized in meetings people don't I can't do these things without addressing this huge piece of my history first. Totally. It was like I was frozen in time. Totally understand. I thought like I need to do this. So now I can move faster. Yes. Exactly. So how do you feel the day this comes out as the day it comes out? How do you feel for the world to to be reading this? free because how could you I am putting it out there? I know it's gonna I know people are gonna come in it's a little bit scary but it's gonna be this is the thing I am the most passionate this is the most passionate I've been about a project since called her daddy wow literally so I like to hear you say that and people saying the writing because that's what I like to do is major but I will be freaking out freaking out was it cathartic to write it yeah was it healing was it hard what were you feeling both all of it yeah there were moments that I like I actually started to have a cut off like I wouldn't write until midnight or 1 a.m. say it was like that gets a bit dark but then a lot of it was healing too you were so now that you say that you waited until you could write it from a place that was like a little yelled right an eagle list you said somewhere but yeah or less ego yeah you were so honest in it like there was no like hyping yourself up like you know what I mean it was like this was the situation even you talking about and we'll get into all of it we just have the 5.30 but but but even after when you had to start over you going through that in the book of like how hard it was to pick up the mic to be by yourself no co-host doing it 70 times like again as a podcaster like I could just feel that and that was so honest of you because you could have said like this is what I do pick up the mic but I but yeah you were like it was the hardest thing ever for you to start over it was it was beyond like beyond and I think that really gets across in the book yeah I hope also that people understand my humor like did you see some humor and really can I swear yeah why do I keep thinking it's like I'm on radio and I've never done this before I've asked the last three times yeah now of course again well oh there are like pretty traumatic things that I throw in a crazy ass joke in there and I just hope people receive it I think you're so funny I think it has humor in it I think it has pain in it I think we're getting to know you we go back to the basics of being born in Utah growing up without knowing your dad your mom got pregnant at 20 yeah right like that situation friendships yeah drugs yeah sexual escapades yeah and it's like the real deal do you know what I mean like when thinking of the original caller daddy and all those stories and all the the the sexual stuff you talked about sound like such a period when I talk about the orgy all the sexual stuff it's like you literally we're living it since like what age did you start like experimenting with like drugs and sex and stuff drugs and sex and stuff well like I'm like because they you'd write in the book that you went you were an AP student and then one day you right and then I was like let's smoke oxy car yeah tin foil right but like still look hot yeah and go to school yeah I guess yeah I guess high school is when it took off there were probably like a few moments in middle school but high school it really was the prime you leaned in mm-hmm and then you detail like actually meeting your dad right yeah at some point yeah I meet him for the first time in eighth grade and then again two years later and then we don't and then ever again well I mean can I give you a little see of course give me a lot of tea not that it's tea but with some respect you know so my husband lives in Europe I was trying to get my Italian citizenship before I even met him it didn't work out and I need to get my citizenship and my mom was like hi your biological father so while he's Italian he's from Spain yeah but the whole EU thing yeah all right so while I'm writing this book I am speaking with my biological father for the first time since high school but also writing about him which was hey can you help me get my and he was like he's I could do the least I can do I think for the first month he thought my mom and I were like trying to steal his like identity or social we haven't talked to him yeah 15 years and all this and we're asking him can we just get your social security number and like your password we couldn't you get it from your husband if you're married him he is a UK and that doesn't know Brexit babe okay that's it wait so you got it through your dad I haven't gotten it yet biological dad you call biological dad I had to get a DNA test in Ibiza you're like like you know like Posner like I took a pill and you feel like I genuinely at Eurofin lab how to get a DNA test to prove you was my dad while writing were you anywhere nervous that no no but I think he did ask my mom he was like are you sure my mom was not happy about that well daddy issues I think when the title came out this is what it was gonna be called people assume it just has to do with caller daddy and like that's a genius play on on the on the word and everything but it's also a double on almost like a triple what's the triple well just daddy issues your dad obviously then the second dad then caller daddy oh no Tom your you call him your dad I call my dad yeah but he was like your step dad yes but I call my dad he like walked me down the aisle on my wedding and they're still together your mom in them oh no special that he's still such a yeah you know yeah but you yeah you detail what you went through with him yep and then we get to the call her daddy so it's three daddy issues yeah so I'm saying you've been through you've been through a lot daddy daddy stuff and then okay so from Utah you moved to New York and with your aunt yes and you get a corporate job in finance yeah and then you meet a girl yeah and she is like somebody's looking for a roommate yeah and that girl's Alex yeah and from then everything takes off yeah crazy it's really really crazy so you moved in together and became friends immediately we went to her apartments and signed a lease that day yeah so yeah immediately and how quick did she and you notice that you had something for like a pod because what EO was a 2018 yeah so no one thinks of a pods were big but not like they are now right yeah right so I it's interesting because when I was working in finance I wanted to die sitting in a cubicle looking at documents and I would listen to podcasts from the second I got there till the second I left like what would I listen to my dog wrote a porno do you know no but you said was a bitch Bible Jackie shem all the bitch Bible yeah and this is when podcasting is not huge right darn many but because of that I knew podcasting so that I meet Alex she went to school for media and the moment we knew we should do something together I guess it it happened in different moments right we knew we worked well together just going out yeah to the club yeah you know what I mean yeah yeah yeah and go be entertaining and hot and funny and hot and funny yeah and whatever did you feel like you made your match yeah if anything she energizer bunny like there sometimes I was like okay but actually I could keep up you could keep up but you yeah so you were you made your match but you had different I guess like strengths and things like that yeah so she says let's do let's do YouTube show yes yes cuz she's vlogging and she's like she's vlogging anyway yeah she had a little bit of a following yes and then we go to South by Southwest we it's a great like seen in the book and basically we end up at a bar and there's like a huge I'm not gonna say a crowd because that's insane if I said a crowd yeah grew a people and then after that trip. She was like, I think we should do a YouTube channel. I was like, great. Also, I think it's very clear in the book. I didn't know that that world did you because you did say at some point though that you did manifest, moved to New York, have a podcast. Yeah. So it was somewhere in your mind, podcasting specific, like audio, like radio vibes. But my question is, did you ever in growing up have like, I want to be famous, I want to be known, I want to be an entertainment. No. You didn't have that. No. So what did you want to do? I wanted to be like successful. And I thought the way to do that was like corporate. Yeah. Yeah. Because you know, in Utah, you don't see an art gallery. Yeah. I don't even know if there is an art gallery in Utah, probably. So that never, I didn't seem like that was a thing. And you said that Alex didn't even know, didn't even listen to podcasts. Like you introduced sort of the kind of like the types of pods you were listening to. Yes. Okay. So podcasts appeal to you. You start, oh no, you start doing the YouTube. So that's more like vlogging. So we make one episode. And I don't even know what happens with that episode. Okay. I don't even know if we, I think we posted it. It might still be on there. And then Alex loses her job. And she's like desperately trying to get a job. And this guy, Harvey Weinstein's right hand to man. Which is like just so. Which guy was that remind me? Mike. Oh him. Yeah. That, that. Okay. Yeah. So, which he is irrelevant to this. I mean, kind of relevant because I forgot about him. Yeah. Yeah. But there's this trust fund kid startup podcast network. And he tells Alex and Alex is like, I'm never podcasted. And is like, I'm going to do it with Sophia. My friend Sophia is what? She told me, allegedly, allegedly. No, I just don't know. Anytime. When I picture you in the book. And like you said, you just didn't know. Like, of course, now you know so much. But then you, you're coming from Utah. You don't know much about this world. Is it correct that it sounds like Alex was kind of like the like, the like, let's go. Let's do that. And you were like, okay, what time do I need to be there? Yeah. Okay. Like I have a meeting, but I'll make it out. And you were kind of frazzled too because you were trying to keep your job at that point. Right. And, and you couldn't always be making the, the kind of meetings and the things. Right. And she was very like and has always been, we need to go tomorrow. This needs to happen now. Yeah. Very rush into things. Yeah. Not necessarily, not necessarily about thing. But so, yes. And by the way, the time that took you to get this just shows how impetuous, not impetuous you are. Yes. I'm very much. Take the time. Yeah. Take the time. Okay. So you do a couple episodes with this Mike guy, Dave Portnoy, then slides into Alex DM. Yes. And it's like, do you know about our soil? Yes. You do. Well, I had no idea. Did you hear about the network or the like before the hell, hell, no. Right. Do I see? No, no. I mean, I didn't. No. Yeah. But Alex, you know, she, kind of, she had been featured in something. Barst will relate it because she was dating an athlete. Yep. He was like the number one picture at the time. And I remember her saying Dave Portnoy messaged me with 10 exclamation points. And I was like, who? And then I looked it up. And that is kind of when it all started. So, you know, have you seen the like fan edits of you guys on TikTok? People like, you know, put kind of emotional music and like clips of you guys at the very beginning. Same crazy shit. Well, also saying crazy shit. And also there was one where the caption or like the header was like, Alex always hated Sophia. And it's like all these moments where you're being like cute and like, I'll just take a picture of you or like, and maybe she's like looking, you know, they just edited it. And now have you seen those? I actually have seen a few of those. How would you describe those early days at Barstall? What the fuck? Literally what the fuck? Like the vibe. The vibe. The frat bro to the nth degree. Right. Going from the most corporate America buttoned up. Please Morgan, Morgan Stanley to like, it's a free for all. There's there are alcohol bottles like just lined. I'm so confused. Cameras. I it was I think they were vlogging. You were saying there was like 24 seven 24 seven. So were you like, what the fuck? Yeah. Did I get into? Yeah. Yes. But your episodes that was flowing and amazing and I was what the fuck. And also holy shit. This gets to be my life. Pinch me. I don't want to be anywhere else. Right. Kind of like I made it. Like you're getting the same salary that more. No, no, no, what you were and Stanley for doing like this thing that's like fun. You go to talk to a girlfriend. And a lot of people say this and you haven't blatantly said this, but that you were the one with the stories with the real deal vibe that we're talking about. Was Alex also like having those experiences or less than you a little bit? Definitely less. Yeah. I mean, by the time we record episode one, I've lived a life. Yeah. You could see that in the memoir. Right. Right. That's not to say she didn't have, you know, some fun stories, but not to the same extent. No. Did you realize that you were telling all these stories and like more and more people are hearing what you said your mom called you, right? And I was like Sophia. What did she say? Like three set what she's she's like, can everyone see that? Or she said, take it down. And I said, do you see how well it's doing? And then she, and then she goes, is it doing well? Yeah. And I say, yeah. And she says, fine, just block everyone from Utah. Like, so she kind of supported it. She's like, take it down. Oh, it's doing well. 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And that you and Alex kind of became the main event. Do-oh. Which I'm sure Lauren wasn't too happy about. Yeah. I felt-- and I talk about this at length in the book. But I felt like I'm coming into this friendship that's similar to me and Mia, who's in the book. They have been friends since middle school. I'm coming in. It's not really my duty or job to be inclusive in a way. Yeah. I don't know if that-- Like, you didn't feel like you weren't feeling that pressure. Well, I almost felt like that's overstepping kind of. Like, I'm just here. We're going out. And I just assume that's Alex's place to kind of ask Lauren since I'm just getting to know both of them, you know? At some point, does Lauren tell you in the book like she's using you? That's the big one in the book. Oh, yeah. That's a big one in the book. That was a crazy thing. That is a crazy thing. I mean, Mooji. [LAUGHTER] Mooji, no? What do you mean? Mooji also said it. They both said it. They both said it. Which is so-- Mooji, a gay, milk-- Milk Hunter. Milk Hunter. It was really interesting for someone that wasn't in the lore at the time. So I was like married by then. Right. But I've heard those references, you know? Milk Hunter, right. Like the things you get into in the book, like the lore of the show. So he was Alex's friend/advisor vibes. Yes. Also got screwed over by her. Yes. And warned you. And warned me. Did you not think-- Black. [LAUGHTER] Did you not hear? Did you-- Well, I mean, you were young. I will in your defense. You were young. You were having fun. You're doing the thing. What do people want for me? Is everyone jealous? What were you thinking that you weren't kind of computing that two of the people closest to her said to my face? I mean, maybe you did think they're jealous. I know. I never thought they were jealous of my relationship with her. No. But I think that I felt so close to her that it was like, yeah, but that's not our relationship. Also, my brain doesn't work that way. So my brain couldn't compute that. Even though it was like being told to me, I don't know. It's kind of like maybe if a woman's in love with her husband or someone's like, he's cheating on you, and you're like, no. Right. No way. And I mean, with the new G Milf Hunter thing, it's like, we're talking through it, Alex and I. And I'm seeing her point of view. And so I really, I was young. Women have like always been my absolute safe space. Right. And I had never, I don't know why those two, but also what was I even going to do? Right. And also I am much, much closer with her than these two people, right? Like I'm living with her. I think it can never be told enough because I hate obviously repeating things that you've said a million times. But this piece I think needs to be repeated a million times. And it's one of those things where I told you, it's like, stop everything, like explain this whole thing to my husband. So he knows like everyone needs to know, you know, on well, that became merge, became later a drink and her network is literally and you can go find the clip from a story of yours about how you were at Coachella. And first of all, we don't need to hear the clip. You can picture Sophia saying like, I'm unwow. I have the email still. I have the email. Yeah. To who is my manager, like Eleanor? I'm unwow on the polo fields. Like if she would have said we really need you today, like job done over. They're now those TikToks that are like the people are doing, there's a trend of like people on vacation being like getting the work call or email being like. And that was you in 2018 having the story, you guys realize, like were people not saying unwell at the time? I don't think they really were. In our way. I think you deserve the credit for that. Yeah. Like in general, in show terms, you 100% deserve the credit from that. But obviously like people loved it so much. We popularize. You popular pop, you still said we see. I know. She's too kind guys. She's too kind. So that's just such an important piece to me, because you've said this and I think it's so true. Like, he was another word. Like if there's any smoke, any smoke, why? It is perplexed. Flexing to me, especially the amount of money, resources, access behind her, like higher, like brilliant marketing agency. They will come up with something. - Maybe they don't use this, 'cause like it was for email. - Right. - Even if you know what I mean. - Uh huh, I do. - How did you, 'cause I know in this line of work, I will lose sleep over the dumbest fucking shit. A DM, you know, a reel that didn't fucking do well, whatever. Just this alone, how do you process? Like what is the self talk of, it's not a big deal. You know, you try to like walk yourself off the ledge. Like how do you walk yourself off the ledge of like brain explosion emoji over even just this? - I don't. My brain stays exploded, but obviously I've had time to sit with it, but I am right now slightly, I should probably not be saying this, what I'm gonna say, yeah. - Oh great, we love that. We love somebody, by the way, I'm looking, I wanna pull up a quote from her book. We'll keep going. - Please. I did hear from, I have it on good authority, that. - No, no, no, no, no, no. - So no. - I mean, listen, we could take something out later. - I've heard that before. - Well, I've got a little Alex Cooper, Alex Earl. We'll take it out later. - I know, but I wouldn't do that. - That's it for, yeah, with, I'm just kidding. - You're literally filming too. - I wanna pull something up. - Okay, tell me. - I just heard that there was a plan to kind of discredit the whole unwel thing on her side by releasing a video of the recorded call that I talk about in the book. And that was, that's like part of her plan to like drop that bomb in the book, goes live. I probably, I shouldn't have said that. I already know I shouldn't have. Whoops. - Does that, is that something that you feel like could change any narrative? - No. - Okay. - Do you? - No, I don't know what was on that call. - It's us talking about the IP. - Okay. - And she's like, says something along the lines of, okay, so I can have unwel. - Oh, yeah, yeah. - It's when I can tell that I'm being recorded. - Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. - Also, you don't care about unwel, she says. - Yeah, and I'm like, and she's like, so I can have it. And I'm like, yeah, have it. I'm talking about us coming up with new things. But like. - Okay, releasing that will not help her 'cause that still doesn't, that still is your thing. - Right. - And she's talking like legally technically. I mean, legally, Sophia and we're jumping here. And this again, I mean, it's so hard to read in the book thinking about like how screwed over you are. - I know. - It's hard to read, and you're like, you've got fucked. - I got fucked. - I got fucked. - Like, you got fucked. - I did. - But here's my thing. And again, I might be saying this too early in the interview, but like, the conclusion I got to, which helped me crawl out of like, just feeling so terribly about the situation is this. And I wanna know like if you have any regrets about how you handled it. But I think that if that one have happened, okay, so one of happen, you would have kept going whatever, something else would have happened. - 1,000 person. - Okay, so you've had that thought. - Yes. - Like, this wouldn't be a combaya. - No. - Like, she fucked too that it would happen at another point. - Maybe it would have been more protected. - Maybe. - Legally financially stuff like that. - Right, right. - But there's no doubt in my mind that that was, she was going to, at one point, cut me out. We saw it when. - Yeah. - But like, it would have been just a matter of when. - It would have been just a matter of when. - And I am so real raw in the book that even the excerpt like in "Vanity Fair," I reread it and I like got choked up emotional. - The one, the one with the, which one? - When I'm talking about like the hurry clipsing me, but the thing is is I have to your question, I have zero regrets. - Wow. - Zero. - So, yeah. - I'm serious and I mean that. Okay, would I have signed a partnership agreement? - Sure. - Stuff like that, okay. - Yeah. - But zero regrets when it comes to, just to, if anybody doesn't know the story. So your ad bar stool, you're doing still fucking well millions of views, you have a contract. I mean, you do say the exact numbers. Yeah, like, okay, 100K, 70K, 80K, whatever. Doesn't equate the money that you're making. - Right. - Both of you get to this conclusion. You say we're making so much money for the network that the show is doing way better than anybody expected. We should be able to reopen our contract, which is a totally rational thing to do. Dave is like, fuck you. You guys go dark. You're like, and you, from the book, you can really understand. You felt that there was, it was two of you. And there was no other, no, like, either both of you were deciding yes or both. Like a jury that has to like come to a conclusion together. - Like a husband and wife. Like these, co-founders, business partners, best friends, roommates, we stayed together, or we go together. - Like you, I feel like you didn't even have a doubt. I don't know. - You didn't even think it was a possibility. - No. - That's why I feel like you were so like, or so it seemed like, like, not lax. But like, okay, we'll take more time to figure it out. And like, we'll discuss it. And we'll, because you didn't think there was like, no, in which it wasn't you or two staying, or you both staying or you both going. - Yes. There, did I think to myself at certain points, would she, could she ever do something like that? And I wasn't so, you know, like dumb to that. And I thought it through. And I would, I also came to the conclusion, well, if she wanted to do the show without me, how would that even work, you know? - 'Cause you were thinking even in the context of what you were doing. - And like, our listeners. - Right. - And I think that's something to point out is, yeah, the name, call her daddy is still around and it's still successful. It was never the same show. - Right. - It was not the same show. - Yes. - It was not, and I think it was pitched like, daddy gang, you know, it's just gonna be you guys and me, and we're gonna continue on how it's always been. - You guys were talking about, I mean, you said she went from blowjob queen to boss. - Boss, boss girl. - Boss Titan. - Titan. - Yeah, because you're a Titan. - But it's like, call her daddy, die. - Like the second that I wasn't there. - That's another really, I think, healthy way to look, that probably helped you cope with it. Like, yes, it's the same title, and that has its pain and everything, but that piece of it, which is like, but it's not that show. - It's not. It's not. So. - Do you think about what would have happened if that didn't happen? Like, what would the show have evolved into? - I mean, I think I don't know. I actually don't think about that. But I just, I have zero regrets because, and maybe I should be saving this for like the end, I don't know, but where I am in my life now, writing a memoir dream, I'm like, I'm, I'm, I'm good. - I'm so happy for you. - You know, and I needed to kind of be in that space too, to write that. - To be in the good space. - Yeah, for sure. - And not in the like, I was fucked. - Yes. - I need to prove everyone wrong. - The book, by its very nature. I don't know, it's not, it wasn't my goal to prove everyone wrong. It was just, I need to speak. - My truth. - I need to get on the best cellar as list. - It does. - I usually don't care about that, but for you, I care about it. - Thank you. - You really deserve it, not only you, but how good it is. I'm gonna read the excerpt again from, from that, 'cause this was the best paragraph in the book. - Okay. - So this is after you find out about Unwell, you posted a grid, Carousel, the caption, Unwell. Again, this is after you talked about your, to your team about it. - Yeah. - And it's like, you have to say something, but it's not, and again, I could see all those conversations happen that also frustrates me. 'cause I'm like, you probably, you don't know what to do. You're like, what am I saying to this? Is this fucking huge? And then you end up doing the supposed and saying, "I'm well, which feels like a boom." - Which, and it's like, how are you supposed to play it? Like, I want to ask you, how would you play it? - I don't know, it's so hard. - It's so hard, it's like, okay, well, is that petty-- - Are you coming on the thing and being like, "Hey." - Yeah, and then what is that? How does that serve me? Like, that clip just goes crazy and then what? - Yeah. - I mean, could've hyped yourself up more. Do you get what I mean? - Yes. But I was still in this like, framework, we don't use that to hype yourself up. - Which is so fucking classy, to be honest. So this is the excerpt. You post the carousel and you say, even with the dopamine hit of the post, some people are actually starting to come to my defense. It becomes impossibly clear to me, how much Alex has eclipsed me, the riches, the Forbes cover, the refined beauty, the celebrity gas, the skims campaign, the keeps popping up when I'm at bedtime routine, the mimeo flats, the husband, the Pinterest purfing, perfect wedding covered by Vogue, the Rita dogs for hiring Bellytheed, Silas, orcs me to my-- (laughing) - She's so true. - She's in, she's still true. She's entirely surpassed our history. - She's got me or blip on the timeline of her meteoric rise. I know I can't compete with her anymore. There was no chance of getting ahead. It's such a relief. - Whoa, that's some good writing. - It's amazing writing. And was it a relief when it became so big? - Really, explain that more to me. - After shit went down, I was of the mindset that I felt like I needed to compete. How could I not? And I heard this $60 million spot-of-ideal, and I'm like, okay, I need to do everything in my power to hit that. And I was operating in a way that did not align with who I am, the gas and the hiring the talent agent. And I just kept competing, said shit for clickbait, like did all the things that you're supposed to do to get ahead or what I thought. And when I came to terms with the fact that, "Are they trying to work out?" - Yeah. - There's no way. - Or they want me to not. - No. - When I, oh, okay. When I came to terms with the fact, and this was really hard to come to terms with, right? This wasn't like a, it wasn't just, "Oh my God." - Right. - It was something I didn't want to acknowledge, and I was kind of pretending like, no, someday. When I faced that hard truth, came to terms with it. It was like, it was such a relief. - Like a weight left hand. - Sophia, you can just do what you want to do genuinely. You don't need to compete and live up to and match this girl over here. - Right. - Like, you can just be free of all that, you know? - Super healthy. - I hope that I'm articulating that well. - No, I think even the excerpt alone in the book, like, stands alone, like, it's just impossible to imagine to be in that situation and be able to process that and come to that conclusion, but it took you a long time. - It was Ashley Simpson living in the shadow of someone else's dream. - That you played and cried in front of the mirror. Oh my God, I love this song. - I'm like, okay, I don't want to be in the shadow. - Yeah. - Let's just-- - I want to do my own thing. - Yeah. - We'll be right back after the break. - When you become a parent, it's almost like buying clothes for your kids is more satisfying than buying clothes for you. Just like seeing them dress up and seeing them discover their own little style, which you guys know Noah has is just so exciting. 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I want to go back to the moment at all happened because I think as much as this was talked about, it's still, I have so many questions. I'm sure people do. When you guys are negotiating with bars to all, at some point, you find out Alex, Tudadi is one, what was the, Tudadi's one, come. No, Tudadi's two deals or something? Oh. [LAUGHTER] No, was there a document like that? Was there-- Am I making it up? Oh my god, yes. Yeah. Oh, I still have, I can't have access to it now, but like I still have it. Tudadi's two deals. Yeah. So there was discussion of maybe doing two deals. What, what, what was that about? Tudadi, I think we were, it was us being like, should we say or should we go? Oh, OK. The deal of saying, the deal of going. Yeah. Now, in the book, you detail where you stood, unbars will not want me to give you more money. Alex, we don't need them. Who cares if it's Caller, Daddy, Caller, Brother? Who cares if it's unwell or un-kept? Like, we were just like, we're the talent. We have the power. Seems like her mindset was more, no, we need to stay. Her mindset was the same as mine. And then something shifted. And then I end up saying, you know what? Let's stay. Which I don't think people understand that piece. OK. It wasn't like I walked away from Caller. I didn't. I was cut out. No, no. I think we all know that you were cut out. I don't. Do you? Well, I think the question that we want to clarify is, I think to the public, it seems like in your decisions, in your contemplating, she was more team, let's say, you were more team, let's go. And you thought, at the end of the day, you would maybe compromise with her. Like, you would do anything you decided together, right? Yes. But so she was aware that you would, even though you had more conviction to leave you would stay. It wasn't so much, yes, yes. OK. And it wasn't so much, I just want to go, go, go. It was, I understand the leverage we have right now, let's play it. Let's play it hard. Yeah. You know, like, let's get the right to the IP, the more money, all, like, you know, all these things. We don't need to owe them any part of the business in perpetuity. Like, we don't need to do that. Yeah. Why would we sign that? And what was her side? What was she trying to convince you to do? She was like, enough, like, let's sign. Like, who can't, we'll do some, you know. The deal was to stay for one more year, get the color daddy. Completely after that one year? No, no, the IP completely, that's the thing. So that's my question. And this is why I urge people to buy the book because it's like a pretty intricate kind of, there's all of these little details that have made this convert, this exact combo impossible to do in like short form. OK. So I urge everyone to get the book, but the getting the IP had a lot of strings attached. OK. That you think she still had those strings when she signed the deal on her own? I don't know, but you imagine. I think it's interesting there was like, there was an unwell hydration and not alcohol, maybe not, maybe hydration was taking off. I don't know. OK. But there were strings attached to the deal that you, like you can't know for sure what she ended up signing, but what was offered to you, getting it, didn't mean getting it all the way, which is why you guys. Yes. OK. So how does it go from? We're still debating. We're talking about it. We're trying to figure it out. Do you think you have more leverage? Do you go in a Dave Portonoi's house and you realize like she'd been there, she was talking about it and going behind your back. How did I feel? Like how did we get there? How did this, how did you, how did this happen? How did I get? No, not you. Like how did, see this is what I'm saying, it's like, no, how did, how did it go from. You're living together. You're best friends. You're negotiating a contract. You think you're in it together either way. You say you leave to all of a sudden, you finding out they are best friend, co-founder, all the roommate. Yep. When behind your back made the deal to stay without you. Right. And I've been lying about the, I can't wrap my head around it. And like saying that I almost got fired and that was, that was fucking crazy. It's crazy, I couldn't wrap my brain around it then now I can't understand it as a human being, but I've just chalked it up to that's who she is and maybe, yeah, obviously I questioned like, was the friendship ever real? Maybe it was real for her in how she thinks friendships should be. I don't know. It's like, it's a complex thing. I know. I'm never able to have a conversation after this is done like a full, what the fuck? No. It's like, from the moment that deal, she makes a deal behind your back, a question. But you have also said to Dave, I want to say, or was that done? Like you didn't have the option anymore? If I would have been like, how about I just take the show? Right. I think I did. Right. And he was like, you make her out amongst yourselves to, to do call her daddy. To do call her daddy. And then he's like, well, she is already coming in to record. So like it all happened fast. So fast. And I'm processing like, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, this is my best friend. This is out. There's no, you know, I'm like in that shock, yeah. And then all of these things happen afterwards. That is the part that makes me upset is like, why do you not think and then continue after week? So fear is talking about once she already shut you out and everything. She then starts her new call her daddy without you. And two episodes are dedicated to the funeral, killing you, murdering you, murdering me, murdering me. But okay. And then would you say that most people at that time were like team Alex, babe, yeah, they were sure. Yeah. Okay. Well, we're, we murdered somebody. Yeah. How were people even like, why did people think you, why were people not team you because of suit man with like that's what they think, but that's what the, how they write, which is such a joke. I mean, people, it was weird, right? It was like people thought suit man pulling the strings, but then they also thought that I was just like greedy and fame got to my head. Okay. Um, and you deserve to be murdered because you want more money. Right. Right. Right. What is the question? I think we are. both like I feel like I want an acid drip with you because I'm like back in it. No, because because I'm freaky, because I'm like, okay, so she she she fucked you on the deal. Yeah. And then that wasn't enough. Then it's due episodes, the funeral, and also I think you said saying negative things about you, right? Well, there's the yeah. And and again, go get the book. Right. Because go get the book. We talk about I talk about like it was the week right after there was the YouTube video. And you know, it's kind of like the first person to tell the story that gets to be the narrative. Right. The audience now is way more they're smarter now. People understand now they didn't back then how media works, how PR works. Maybe they understand a little bit more. A little bit. Yeah. I don't even tick talk like had just. But what did they think that you had a boyfriend who was a little bit of business and that he told you. Yeah. What to do. Yeah. And was kind of like running the show. And I mean, Dave also fed into that theory. We talked about Peter a bunch. Yeah. And that was and what do you say to that though? The Peter became the scapegoe because they couldn't they knew they could only attack and bully a woman and also 50% of the show so much without it landing wrong. Okay. Yeah. And I think they used him as like a tool. Yeah. No man. Like no dude is like in my ear telling you what to do. Yeah. But you know, Alex, it's just so crazy because Alex makes such a convincing YouTube video and she brings up like Scooter Braun and she brings up my agent and all these men trying to run her show. And it's a little bit like, but you literally ran to Dave and rolled over and let, you know, gave Dave what he wanted. Yeah. And also none like none of those people were doing that. Was that like, I mean, I imagine before when she made the deal without you, that was like, you knew the friendship was done. But after those two videos, was it like the nail in the coffin? Yeah. What about this book coming out? Dottie issues. What about it? Like Alex knows about it. Had you opened the book kind of already with some some tea? It's crazy. The prologue is great. Yeah. You're like, should you skip the pro? No, do not skip the prologue. It do not skip the prologue. No, but have you heard from her? No. Are you worried? No. Zero. Zero. I kind of feel like I'm bulletproof. Wow, because you've told your truth. Yeah. What else could she know what I mean? Well, because she do and like, I'm just in a new place in life. I'm so happy for you. This is, I'm allowed to write my story. You are fucking allowed to write your story. And it feels empowering and I fucking killed it. You fucking killed it. What do you hope that happens from this? Like is the next chapter? More team Sophie? I've been asked that quite a bit. The audience already has kind of turned, you know, in my favorite, and that's not, that is whatever. I love them. You can, we're human. When you have seen some recent things about her and the way things are happening over there, were you feeling like, oh, this is a bit karmic? Yeah. And less karmic. And I'm a firm believer that the truth always comes out. I really think that, but what do I want from here? It's, I mean, this thing deserves to be a movie or a TV show. By the way, when you were talking about it before you said that part of the show, you called it a show by accident. Yeah, you said something like in the show. And as you said, I was gonna say, well, I can watch it like a movie in my brain as I'm reading it. It's made for that. Yeah. So we're working on that. There's, yeah. We're, we're, there's conversations. But I also like want to be in a garden and learn to cook and like do a home decor line. Okay. I love all this thing. And I want to like do kiaundle making and like be wifey and trady and and trady and be have a baby. You do? Yes. Oh, I really do. Like soon. Z is soon. Well, you're a wife already. Congratulations on the wedding. It looks beautiful. So to wrap up. Mm-hmm. If you could talk to the Sophia that was going through this in 2020, knowing everything that you know now, what would you tell her in 2020? What would I tell her? What would you now? But you are going to be so good baby girl. Honestly, I love that. Don't worry. Don't worry. You're going to be so fine. I'm so happy that you're so fine. Thank you. And I want people to read the book and like have that take away too. Like you're going to be so fine if you're listening to this. This is going to, I'm telling you, I have a feeling. Mm-hmm. And no, I don't say this to everything. Everyone. This is going to make the New York Times. You do. Yeah. And if it doesn't, then it did anyway. And everyone's going to read this and everyone's going to be obsessed with it. I love this one so much. I'm going to read this. I screened out a bunch of shit. You're in CVS or whatever. Deli, whatever. You just had like about a throw up or something with your mom. You see the unwell drink for the first time. Great scene. Great. I've seen. Oh yeah, you've been calling it scenes. But also, when you write memoir, I was taught like my editor was like, you need to write in scenes. Oh, it's so good, Sophia. So in this scene, you're in CVS or whatever. You're walking around and you see that. You keep saying CVS. I was like a deli or whatever you read. Oh, CVS, but I don't know. I'll tell you why. Okay. I mean, there's a reason I'm not just being weird. I'll tell you something. Okay. So you're at you see unwell drink for the first time. And again, I can picture this scene. You want to look at it. You want to be like, what is this? Right. You know, and you can't because you are like with somebody sees me right now. Right. I had neurovirus. Yeah. And I'm like imagine you bought that to recope. Yeah. So you go, you're with your mommy. Go to the cash register and you say, can you get me nicotine mints? What kind my mom says? Knowing not to lecture me in the state, two milligram. The guy scans the rows of nicotine gum patches, Los Angeles chairman, sugar free mint. That one right there. I wonder if Alex consumes nicotine, even though I know the answer, she doesn't. That would be too much personality. You know, I love that line because I'm obsessed. Like, it sounds like I'm obsessed with nicotine. But like, it's just like a hit for me. To go what I mean, it's like, it's a good line. It's funny. It's shit. It's it's it's so good. Sophia. Thank you. It's so good. Thank you. There's so many, like just zingers like that and things that I screenshot. And I'll tell you why the CVS. I don't think they sell that anymore. Oh, yeah. I'm like, she said CVS, but maybe in 2018, I see, I see, okay, you can't get that to see. Can you? No, no, no, I don't think so. But again, this is like just one excerpt of this amazing book, Daddy, as she is, you fucking killed it. Thank you. A lot to have met you and know you now. And don't you feel like you needed to read the book to get the full one under like Regina's here. I gave her the breakdown, the whole book. I gave my sister the like, meaning like, it's like we all knew about the story. Right. And now it's like reading it and getting your side of it. Yeah. That we again, haven't fully heard for six years. Right. written in such a beautiful way and written with your history and who you are and how you grew up. Right. And where you are now. Right. And beautiful. I wanted it to like, yes, it's like, okay, we're going to capitalize on like the tell all e, but I wanted it to transcend kind of celebrity memoir. I have one last question. When you're done with this press store for this, I mean, the thing is if this does get made into a show or a movie, you'll have to revisit it. But do you feel like do you have a part of you that's like, now that I put this out there, I want to be done talking about it. Right. Uh, you know, not really. Okay, great. I'm not going to do uh, the tell all the second round, obviously, but it's a part of my history, you know, there was another part in the book where you said, again, there's still again, so well written, but you said something like, you didn't delete all the stuff you had together at that point in the book. And you were like, and not to like, well, whatever, like, I needed to be reminded that it actually happened. Yeah. Yeah. You guys, that is again, like a chilled moment. Mm-hmm. Like you almost could think it's not real because of how it was taken away from you. Yeah. Yeah. You have since deleted. Mm-hmm. But I say at the end of that chapter, I think I say, but we will forever be linked. Do you feel, do you feel that though? We hurt. She has the same thing, you know, you think she does. Well, there's press that's written about her that doesn't mention me, but a lot of it does. Yeah. Like we are each other's origin stories. Yeah. So you are each other's origin stories. As hard as she wants to deny that. Right. Seeing the moments of you being spoken of as like, she or not being even able to say your name. Yeah. Oh my God. Like you say Alex, you know, like you're able to say it. You're able to say, call her daddy Alex. Like she, she doesn't say her name. She means she aren't to be named. No. That's who you are. And, but I also like tried every so that was also freeing to just say Alex, like call her daddy. Yeah. Let's not deny something. We all watched it. Yeah. One more question on that. I have a 10,000 videos. Seeing what she does now is there. I know that now you're flourishing in your life. Was there a part of you that felt I'd want to be in that room and do that with her? Or was your were you longing more for what you had had originally? Seeing what she does now, right? Which is a different version of the show. I don't long for anything. I don't. You've never had that. No. I found myself and I was writing the book missing her as a friend. Certain points and like missing that amazing, like creative dynamic that you had. Yeah. But I kind of found that again with the book, you know, on your own, on my own. But no, I don't, whatever she's up to. I don't, I'm referring to it that I'm not trying to sound dismissive. I don't know. There's like a hundred things that Unwell is doing, right? So out of those things, no, there's not a part of me that I'm like, damn, I wish I was doing that. Well, you can't wait to see what else you were you're going to do next. And I can't wait for this to be a show so we can watch the scenes. I see it so clearly. It's like made for you. Who would you want to play you? That just of hotter artists and Alex. I've totally have the forever hotter than the blonde. I can't joke like that. I am joking people. That was a joke. They know. They do know. Yeah. I see now people are going to be like, she's a bully. I'm not trying to bully. That was a joke. Who do I want to play me? Gal Gadot. Gal Gadot should not play. Oh, she shouldn't. She absolutely shouldn't. No, I know. Why is that the name you had? Because by the way, I love Gal Gadot. Oh, my God. Wait, I know who played Snow White. Rachel Ziegler now. Yeah. No. Okay. Who? Who? Awful. Wait, or her or her. They were like me. You also know. I know you're not with the culture. No. Oh, first of all, I feel like you should, if you were manifesting that, like, have a vision. You right. For the actress. For that. Yeah. You're right. I mean, the thing is, I did see me like Kunis, but she's right. You would need somebody way younger. Right. Oh, maybe like Odessa, Zion. No. Which one needs to take out her nose ring. Or Rachel sent it. No. I'm going to think of more people. Please do. Please do. Okay. Who? Oh, Indy Navared from obsession. The movie obsession. I haven't seen that. Okay. Well, we're going to help Sophia figure this one out. I love you so much. I love you so much. Thank you for coming. It was one of my like most look. I looked forward to this so much. Been thinking about it so much. And thank you for interviewing me the way you did as well. Thank you. Because you loved it. I loved it. I love you. I love you. Like I could really kiki. I want a kiki. You know, I want a kiki for real. And I I wish you guys we could have more more more time. Because like I am so invested. I'm back in 2018. 20 whenever those two years I'm back there. Right. Yeah. Right. It takes you back. We're going to have to we're going to have to do something together. Everybody if you haven't already ordered pre ordered all the things get daddy issues like you will not regret it. You will thank me. You will thank Sophia and you will enjoy it for every fucking sentence. I'm finished. Thank you guys so much for listening to this episode of not skinny but not fat. Follow me on Instagram @nobzbunnybunomfat. Subscribe to the podcast. You don't miss any episodes rate the podcast that you love so much on Apple podcasts and write a little review. If you tell me you did, I'll give you a big virtual smoocheroo. Thank you guys so much for listening and I'll see you next Tuesday. Please note that this episode may contain paid endorsements and advertisements for products and services. Individuals on the show may have a direct or indirect financial interest in products or services referred to in this episode.