So... What Does an Organic Church Meeting Actually Look Like? | #reChurch Ep. 26

All right, so the number one question that we get specifically from people that have stepped out of the institutional church and are trying to do this thing outside the four walls. Or of the organization known as church is. What does a organic church meeting home gathering simple church, whatever you want to call it? What does that look like? They we get these. Questions of like hey, can I can I like peek in like zoom in just they just want to see it practically. And I understand that question, but I think I think it's the wrong question and in a minute I'm going to give you a couple examples we're going to give the people a couple examples of what that does look like like I want to I want to go ahead and show you and tell you I want to answer that question. But I don't think it's the right question. I don't think it'll get you where you think it'll get you right. I think the better question is off the bat is not what does a what does an organic church. Gathering look like, but what is a church gathering meant to produce. It's just a better question to start from because it'll get you to a better place because if you just see what I do and you begin to mimic that you see what we do and our group does and you begin to mimic that. Then you just have then you're just reproducing or copying and pasting what somebody else has done. And that's what we've done all throughout church history history and look where has got us. So I guess you're asking the question more of like what the why of the gathering more than the how. Yeah, because think about it. That's why I don't love the term house church. I use it sometimes on our thumbnails and titles because I know that's what people are going to under this the framework they're thinking of not everybody knows organic church. But I love you know organic church going to buy a knee or cold like I just think that is such a such a better terminology for what we're doing because it doesn't have as much to do with the setting as in like the what type of walls or what type of building you're in whether you're in a coffee shop whether you're outside whether you're in a giant building. As it as it does as it has to do with like what's going on in the meeting and what organic means is that things happen naturally or better yet supernaturally as you go. Right. So like if you understand the why behind the meeting why are you gathering. Then the gathering can actually be spirit led. It's that of copy and paste. Right. You know what I'm saying and how to do it necessarily. And so maybe I'll let you give one example and then I'll give an example and then we'll get into like helping people understand. The why behind it and then and then we're going to the main core of this episode will be actually discussing the types of gathering that there are because some people come from the background where they think there's only one type of gathering right and that is the Sunday church gathering that we all experience. And so we're going to talk about why that's not the only type of gathering there is there's actually three. That we experience and they all have three very different purposes and life cycles and stuff like that so it's going to be an awesome episode this is going to be the episode that we're going to. I'm going to steer people to when they ask me the question hey I want to know what it looks like can you show me can you give me an example. This is the app you're in the right place if I've sent you here if I've sent you this link you're in the right place so. I'm going to give you example of what one one meeting that we had the other day was cool and you know a couple weeks back. I actually had to go somewhere it was on a Sunday you don't have to meet on Sundays one of our fellowships does meet on Sundays. The group that we meet with it's all believers and we meet at our home and I showed up I had something to do beforehand so I showed up a few minutes late and by the time I got to the front door there was a couple people that were outside and then a couple of the ladies were inside. And so one of the guys hung out outside I talked to him for a minute the kids were sitting on the front porch I walked inside and then you were sitting on the couch talking to some of the women have an conversation the one of the guys that is part of our fellowship he stayed outside on the front porch talking to the kids I had no idea what they were talking about I just knew they were talking about different topics and getting in a scripture and stuff like that and then so like halfway through the kitchen I stopped and was talking to John having a conversation with him and this is not this is not typical like this is not a typical meeting but what happened is like two hours later we were all three types of Bible conversations are going on at the same time yeah it was so like it's so much as accomplished that yeah and that's the thing that's the thing I want to say is like how in the world is that considered a church gathering like I mean you know bibles were open scriptures were talked about and stuff like that but it was not none of it was planned but what I realized because I was asking the Lord afterwards I'm like why did this particular gathering there was no like singing worship there was no formal everybody sit down together in a circle and pray and question you know whatever but I asked the Lord and he's like well that particular day different people they had different things that they needed to work through in their hearts and so I was able to actually meet those needs simultaneously by organically placing these groups of people together within one group in these conversations became extremely fruitful. So the kids were having the discussion they needed to have me and John were talking about something he was working through I don't even know what you were talking about I think the question for me the lady asked was what does a scripture actually mean on how to guard your heart what practically how do you do that and so we were just dissecting with that man. So before we get into another example you can be thinking of one in the back your head while I'm saying this. You know if that happened to be one of those times where I said sure come on in and visit or sure jump in on a zoom call or whatever you'd have been like what the heck is going on yeah like this is not a church meeting or like how do I reproduce it right you can't you can't reproduce the form that's why I'm like I know you want to know what it looks like but that was one time what it looks like and guess what the other 20 30 times we've met it is never looked like that. And so that's why it's so hard to tell people exactly give them a formula just to just to you know do this formula we'll talk more about that later well I think just more why don't you share with the people the three first. The three distinctive types of groups and then we can walk through what each group actually is purpose and somewhat of a format even though it has to be led by the spirit. Yeah yeah yeah we're going to like structure and stuff want to give one more example of what what a gathering looks like yeah so just and explain how just naturally it just organically happened that day and then there's times where we come in and and people literally just fellowship for sometimes an hour and a half or two hours before the scriptures even get broken into or a Bible question happens but shared life is happening and ministries happening because human connection is taking place yeah place with a like-minded people. We always eventually get into the scriptures, but sometimes it looks like that. Sometimes we get in and bubbles are opened up immediately and sometimes it's like people just need connection, you know? Like you go throughout your weeks and your days, and you might not get to, especially in the area we live in, like you might not come in contact with another believer, because it's more secular than it is Christian, right? So when you come in like having that like-minded fellowship and communion, like brings like hope to the soul. So sometimes it can look like that. As you were saying that, I was thinking about asking the question, you know, what does your house church meeting, what does your organic church meeting look like? Is very similar, is a very similar question is asking, what does your family look like? Right. And it's because we ask the question is because we're so used to having the Sunday format that looks almost identical every single Sunday. That's the framework that we're thinking through. And so a lot of people listening to this podcast, what we're working through is not only like them stepping into a whole new thing, but also having to come out of a very broken framework. That's right. To learn how to live actually by the spirit without relying on these formats that are not in the Bible in the first place. And so it's like we're going into this new thing, but we're still trying to drag these old formats in there when we really don't even understand what is spirit. I think it's interesting, because when you're saying that the picture that popped into my mind is like if you put kind of like the way Ville is raised, like Ville is a baby cow that's put in a box and is never allowed to really use the muscle and strength of his legs. Like if you remove all the structure that it's used to and you just kind of let it go free, like it just crumbles. It doesn't know what to do. You know what I'm saying. And sometimes in the beginning, if you've been institutionalized for a really long time, that's what organic church can feel like. You feel paralyzed because you don't know what to do. And you realize your faith is not in Jesus. Your faith is in your faith, which is in your structures, institutional institution and programs. So it sometimes takes time to kind of whale for a minute to really figure out what it looks like to have the spirit really come in and lead your meaning. So like for you and I now, like I don't feel fearful before people come to my house. I don't feel like I have to prepare anything. I don't feel stressed out other than maybe I'm like, "Kat's put your shoes away." You know, kind of thing. But I don't feel all those things are this pressure to perform because I know the spirit's going to show up because I've connected with them throughout the week. I know the other people here have been connecting with them with that throughout the week. So God's going to move. I don't have to to hope he's going to move. Right? Yeah. Your preparation is just your own personal time. That's right. Getting into the scriptures, getting the word in constantly being immersed in the word of God and the day-to-day disciplines that you have spiritually. And then when you all come together and you've all done that, it is amazing how the Lord just begins to utilize those tools, the things that you've put in through the week, and you begin to express those things to each other. But I think that's the why. So why do you even gather? Not how do we gather, but why do we gather? We gather so that we can stir people up to connections with God. I had a guy after our Wednesday group text me and he was like text you and I on a group text and he said, "After I left group Wednesday night, I was in the Word until 1 a.m. and I read almost all of Romans." Where we left because our conversations spurred so many questions in my heart. And it's like, "That's the why. The why is that they go out and they learn to feed themselves, read the Word, and they're stirred to hunger, which then produces maturity, not because they've learned everything academically correct, but they're literally doing what first John 2 says, letting the Spirit be their teacher." So the why is maturity and so the way that organic church works without the institutional structure, which I'll call it the fat mean walls that just keep you fat, but not necessarily grow you to maturity, that's what you're producing in this type of setting. Yeah. No, that's awesome. And we're intentionally not getting to the, we're pushing off getting to the practical stuff on purpose because if you don't figure this out first, you're going to keep failing and you're going to keep institutionalizing. Yeah. And you're going to be scared to move forward. You're going to be confused. All of these things. I just want to say that like really listening close to this part, okay, because this is where most people are making the mistake. They're coming out of one form and they're entering into a whole new world. And the very first question they ask is, "How do I do it?" Right. Think to yourself, you're asking, "How do I do this?" And you've never done it before. Right. What do you think happens when you ask that question? Like what are the feelings? Do you think? An anxiety. Yeah. Fear, frustration, worry, stress. So what are those feelings produced? Like what do you think happens after that? Yeah, it produces, yeah, lack of fruitfulness. I feel like. Yeah. Either stuck. Or you go back to things. Either you go back. So what you need people to go back. That's not because they want to, but because it's more comforting to at least do something even if you know it's not right. It's not the ideal. It's something that I'm familiar with. That's right. And so I have faith and confidence that that machine is going to keep going. Or you never actually do anything. You just get paralyzed. That's right. And then you listen to podcasts like this and you listen to 20 of them and you're like, "I still don't know what to do and stuff like that." So forget about how for a second, we'll get into that and start asking yourself, "Why? Why am I gathering?" And that's a question a lot of times that you have to seek out with God and then look through the scriptures to figure out why does the church gather. So we're going to answer the why. We can't answer the why about the same for each type of gathering because we mentioned there's three types of gathering. So what are the three types of gatherings that you've experienced? Yeah. So the first gathering is in my mind is a call to discovery group. That group is a group of people, whether you open up your home or you meet in a coffee shop. And the audience are, it can be believer, can be lukewarm believers. It can be people who think they're saved because they've gone to church for 20 years or it could be lost people. People that probably aren't fully born again. You know, they haven't walked through true belief in God. They haven't walked through true repentance, deeper repentance, biblical repentance. They haven't been baptized. They haven't received the Holy Spirit. So those groups are discovery groups and those groups are more evangelistic in their setup. And a lot more teaching and evangelism and literally the teachings we teach are just the gospel. We just go through the book of Acts. So that's a discovery group. So that's kind of what that group's purpose is for. But it's not a fellowship, like it's not a church because you've got people of all walks of life that are not all born again. Some may be, but most are not. That is what that group is purpose is for. It's why. It's not only a discovery group because you're basically discovering God together. It's made for you to realize like this is not a group of born again believers that are being equipped and trained and expressing Christ to each other. This has a little bit of a different purpose. Interestingly enough, we would, in today's church and in the institutional church, we would just throw everybody in one body and try to do it all together and that's why we fail a lot of times. So what is the problem that this group solves, a discovery group? The discovery group's problem solving, the why is that everyone will know the full gospel and they'll know the proper response to the gospel. And if they've never walked through those elements of being born again, we will properly walk through them thoroughly with each individual person while also training others who are on watchers in the process. So I know you kind of briefly touched on this, but for clarity sake, who is this for? Who is a discovery group for? Or for people who are seeking God, but they're maybe not born again yet. They're in a discovery phase. They're feeling drawn, but they don't know what to do next. Or it might be for the Luke Warren person who was in church for 10 years walked away and doesn't know why and now they realize like they had a child or they're about to get married and they're like, oh snap, I'm supposed to be the spiritual leader or this Proverbs 31 wife. I don't know how. Or it can be for the homeless man on the street. Every group's are for anyone who is not in Christ. And that can be the carnal Christian who thinks they know God, but don't, which that was me for 23 years in my life. Or the homeless man or the prostitute or the dude who hit the weed pin right before he walked in the other day. You know, and like doesn't know why he's here, but he was invited by a friend who sees he needs Jesus. Yeah. What do you think happens when you try to treat this group as a home church or a church fellowship? Well, the danger of doing that, treating it like it's an actual Ecclesia body of believers is you'll realize some of them will just start to behave, really modify their behaviors because they know that's what's right, but they're actually not born again and they're living their so-called Christian walk in their flesh. So we don't want to reproduce, behaviorally modified church people who know the Bible and Christianes. We want to reproduce born again spiritually mature people. So we don't get past the gospel and being saved from sin until everyone has repented and baptized and received the Holy Spirit. So awesome. So I don't know. But in that group in the past two weeks, three people have been baptized and are walking out this new life in Jesus now. So it's really interesting, but they thought all three of them thought they were good to go. But then being in there and going over the book of Acts multiple times, they're like, oh, snap. Like, I haven't, I'm not fully surrendered or I'm not born again at all. And now they're born again, walking with Christ. Yeah. And this is, I think for people listening right now, this is going to be really helpful for you to understand like why a lot of the things we're talking about and the frameworks that we're giving you, helping you understand these different types of groups and different types of people that you'll be inviting into your homes and things like that. These are going to solve a lot of the problems that you're dealing with, a lot of the barriers and walls you're coming up with because we talk to people on calls and stuff like that that are struggling or stuck and they're like, man, I don't know why we can't get this point and we're dealing with this thing. I'm like, that's because you're skipped important parts. You skipped parts. Yeah. You're treating this discovery group where there's still people that are not born again. They're just looking, you know, all these different things. You got people that have not been through that process and not baptized or whatever it is. And you're treating them as if they're already born again and you're moving into the discipleship and equipping phase. And you get frustrated with them because they don't have the spirit as their teacher. So you're having to do too much work to keep them on track and out of trouble. And if somebody has the spirit, dude, you're just like a facilitator of maturity. You don't have to make them or encourage them to do anything. They're hungry. Like the spirit of God begins to do the work. You're just the one who facilitates the process and makes sure like they're properly discipled to maturity. You know, you don't have to coach them, baby them or motivate them. Yeah. I want to share people to like listening to this. There's going to be people that this is really new to and it's like it could end up being a lot of information to take in just relax. Yeah. Like this takes time. This is like eight, nine years of us doing this over. and over and over again. So sometimes the level of confidence that we speak with doesn't come because we have some supernatural spiritual gift or whatever it's just because we've done this a lot and we have learned the hard way and we've been through a lot of mistakes and stuff like that. So we're trying to give you like almost a decade of experience in this in short podcast episodes. And so get yourself familiar with it. Like if you don't have people around you where you're not able to put this into practice yet, that's why it's good to listen through different podcast episodes and stuff like that and just get it in. And then the Lord will begin to work through you and utilize those things. So yeah, so that's the discovery group, that's why that's why it's for. And you understand why it's so important to know not exactly how to do it but why. And you're like, oh, okay, now I understand the things that should happen and the things that shouldn't happen in that particular meeting because there's actually a goal. And later on after we get done discussing these groups, whether it's in this episode or the next, we're gonna talk about the different seasons of fellowships and gatherings and meetings and what that looks like when they enter into different seasons, when they grow, when they multiply. Like we're gonna get through that all what that looks like. So you guys understand that this, it's like real family. Yeah, again. One thing too with the discovery group, I wanna touch on is the discovery group is open for anyone and however many. Like when we first started our discovery group here in Austin, it was like five people and some nights it gets up to almost 30 people. And they have them flow. And what I'm starting to see is the ones that begin to get born again, they're coming every single week and they can't miss it. And the other ones who are not fully ready or they're not ready to fully surrender to Jesus, they might come once a month and you start to slowly watch them fall off. And eventually that discovery group will be birthed into a fellowship because everyone will be born again. But it might take six months to a year to get that discovery group into the place of an Ecclesia. And then the why changes even more. It's like the why of the discovery group is that everyone is born again filled with the spirit and a possession of gods. The why of an Ecclesia is now maturity and training. So you can release two different wise. You know, and so for the discovery group, it should evolve into an Ecclesia. It shouldn't stay discovery forever. And once that Ecclesia starts and is officially established, you can start a different discovery group on a different night. If there's still others who need to come and some of those old people may come back around to this new discovery group with new influx of people, that's how the multi, that's how the birthing process of a fellowship can start. And it's purpose moving forward, what directions are heading in? - It's so funny. We, like we only started experiencing these things, seasons, life cycles, really death of fellowship, growth, the fruitfulness and new things being birthed. When we stepped out of an artificial environment, because an artificial environment works like a machine where it just churns things out. Our kit, we are just one of our-- - Seasons don't change. - One of our, they write, there's no seasons. Because it's like-- - Yeah, we get out movie, the giver, have you seen that movie? - No. - You have seen it. I think it was all together. But literally they removed climate and controlled the climate. So there was no winter, there was no summer. It was like perfect so that you could grow crops to your round and it's like this artificial place that has no season. So you can supposedly live in this like perfect bubble, but you need seasons. You need draw seasons. You need wet seasons, you need cold seasons, you need hot seasons. So they serve a purpose. - Yes, but the problem with that environment is it can't reproduce. If somebody wants to reproduce in that model, then you've got to artificially reproduce, which means you've got to take the current system in environment and you've got to plant that thing and recreate it somewhere else. It's a very difficult process. It's like sticking a human arm in a pot of soil thinking you're gonna grow a human being. That's not how human beings multiply. And so that's what we're looking at. The story I was gonna share is our son recently at a birthday and he went to an indoor water park. And inside that water park, they have like a wave pool, they have a wave pool, but then they also have like a fake wave that you can get on and stuff like that. And it mimics being at the beach and surfing and all those things and it's like fun to play on and stuff like that, but a very different experience than being out in the ocean and experiencing that. Do you know what I'm saying? There's no professional surfer that only is going to surf on artificial waves in an indoor water park. - Yeah. - Like that's not-- - They would never win competition. - Right. And so that's what I was getting back to is like, we didn't start to experience cycles and seasons and life spans and all of these things until we got out of that artificial environment. And it's like, oh, it's different. And you've got to like prepare yourself for those seasons. We didn't, we experienced one season. - Yeah. - And the reason we experienced one season and it felt like growth or fruit was always taking place was not 'cause there was actual fruit taking place. It was because of those systems cycle Christians in and out of them constantly. And so it feels like there's always people raising their hand for salvation and the church is growing but we're not paying attention to like where those people are coming from and going and all of those things. Like they're typically coming from the church down the street. The majority of them. And then after they get through some time of being there and they get bored 'cause they've heard all the messages then they go on to the next church and then the next church calls that growth. - Yeah, it's called Duffling Cards. - We're just shuffling Christians around. And like what we're experiencing now is people that are genuinely just discovering God for the first time. And it's so much more life giving than just the person that's been to nine different church organizations and they just haven't found the right fit. I'm like you're not trying on shoes. That's not what this is about but we can't get mad at those people because that's what we're teaching them by the way that we actually form our church gatherings is like come try us out. And if we can give you the best experience, the best worship experience. - Like what? - Well we have the app and all the time. People will find out we're in Austin and they're like, oh we've been trying to do house church. Can we come see how yours works? Can we be a part of yours? And I'm like no, you can't. They're like, at first they're like offended and Justin was like, should we do it that way? But yes, like if you've been in house church for years and you're bored at the one you're at, like it's because you should be multiplying having your own fellowship in your own house at this point, coming to mind and just being a part of mind and shuffling the deck, like that's not what I'm here for. So you go make your own house church in your own home. Like you're not gonna come just fill a seat in my house because you're bored over here. Like that's not how this works. So we don't allow that to happen. Like we're like, sorry. No, go make disciples of your own at this point. - So what's the second type of group? - So first group we talked about discovery. So let's say, let's, yeah, LTG, that's right. So LTG groups are live transformation groups. They're groups that you come together. They're one, they're two, maybe three people. And it's where you really confess things front. Like sin two, it's where accountability really comes to. Maybe like deeper study than what 12 people in a room can maybe go. Like it's kind of like Jesus and John the beloved, right? Like that type of relationship where you can really go deep and confess things and like grow in depth where you can't necessarily get that in a group of 12 people, right? So that's somebody that you may text every single day. That's somebody you may go have lunch and dinner with on a random Wednesday. That's somebody that you naturally feel drawn to and you feel very comfortable with that person. And you can share anything with. And maybe you study specific topics together and break the scriptures apart in that way. That's what LTG groups are there for accountability and transformation. - Yeah, and don't get caught up on the name. Like some people call them CO2s. - Yeah, and call it anything. - Basically it's just a group of a couple of Christians. - Yeah. - So these are born again believers. But you get more personal. Like the lower the number of people, the more personal and the more depth that you can get into, especially when you're sharing things like struggles you're going through or things you're trying to overcome. That might not fit in a larger group of people or it's just more difficult to get through. So let me ask this, what is the problem that it solves? - Well, one thing that we first realized in doing organic church was when you get eight to 12 people, which I like groups to be like 10 or less. I feel like they're more fruitful that way. But eight to 12 people in a room, you'll notice there'll be two or three people who are very open with sharing their stuff out loud. I'm one of those people. I don't hold much back. Like if you see me, you're going to know how I feel or whatever. And I'm very open with conversations. I'm not embarrassed by much. Like people like that can over consume a fellowship where it's all about what they're going through, what they're processing. And if you've got two or three of those people, the group can kind of be consumed by that. And then you'll have another group of people in the room. That would be nice. never open up to 10 to 12 people, but maybe one to two they would. So it resolves the problem of your fellowship becoming just like a vomit fest of problems to where you can do that with one or two others and like wrestle through things. And when you come together as an actual like fellowship, community fellowship with a larger group of people, 12 or so, you can actually get some work done. Like you can study the scriptures. You can just share life and enjoy one another's presence, you know, without feeling like that one person or those two people in the room are going to consume the fellowship with what they're going through because they can talk about themselves the whole time. So it does help eliminate that process. Yeah, no, I think that's great. And we're going to get to the third one in a second, which is clear. It's the Ecclesia, it's the actual church gathering. But I think it's important to take this as a rule. Like you have to have every single one of these in your life. And I think it's very beneficial to have each one of these types of gatherings that you're all involved. Yeah, yeah. You know, the, the, I have multiple LTG groups. Like there's multiple women who are part of different fellowships that I connect with one on one on a pretty regular basis. And it's not every week sometimes, sometimes it's every other week. Sometimes it's twice a month or three times a month or once a month, just depending on schedules. But we're constantly texting one another. We're constantly checking in with one another and we meet pretty frequently because most of the women that I'm talking to, you know, you either have children and your moms or they have full-time jobs. So like we might not meet every week, but we're constantly in fellowship with one another. Yeah. And people will get caught up on like, what do you, so what do you do and what does it look like when you meet together with your, you know, all this stuff? Again, the owl is not as so important. Wow, wow. We're spending, spending more time on the why because if you understand why, then you'll know what you do. The how naturally flows, yeah. The how naturally flows because it either serves the purpose of the group or it doesn't. You know, the purpose of that, that group is for you to connect with another believer on a deeper level and have a safe space where you can confess struggles that you're going through where you can dig deeper into the word of God together and discover new revelations and how to walk those out in your life and things like that. And so when you understand that, that's why you're gathering, then you will know, hey, it's probably beneficial that we re-rearge a amount of scripture. It's probably beneficial that we leave some time for us to confess. Since if we need to or talk about struggles or let people know maybe what we need prayer for or things like that. And so, you know, that's helpful. Like, I have a guy that I meet with on a regular basis and we go through large amounts of scriptures. We read entire books to the Bible. They're two big nerds. They're not every LTG group is going to look like that. Yeah. And so I listen to a lot of like audio, Bible scripture and stuff like that. Sometimes we'll go through a specific book of the Bible like two, like the whole book, two or three times in an entire week before we sit down and discuss it. And what's interesting is like we could be like, all right, let's read the gospel of Matthew, right? So say, you know, read through the gospel of Matthew two, two full times during that week and we'll get there. And you know, sometimes we eat for like two and a half hours or you can meet for an hour, whatever, however much time you have. And maybe that time we don't even get to really dig into the scripture that much because there's just a lot going on that life that place that week. Yeah. Yeah, that we need to work through and stuff like that. So that's the why it's beneficial to have not a 100% necessary like you're doing something wrong if you don't have that, but that's beneficial to have in your life. And so the third type of gathering is the Ecclesia. That's where potentially your discovery group has everyone's been through being born again and they're all filled with the spirit. That discovery group can involve evolve into a Ecclesia group, an organic church group, an Ecclesia group of born again, spirit filled believers. Or let's say you already just have a group. So our very first fellowship we started in Austin started with Ecclesia people, spirit filled believers who were stepping out of the institution because they knew something was off and they wanted to do church more organically in the way the book of Acts describes it. So we all began to gather together, but we were already all born again. So we started off as an Ecclesia to begin with. Right now we have a discovery group that's evolving into an Ecclesia group. It's not quite there yet almost. So they can look either way. They can either come from a discovery group where they're birthed into an Ecclesia or you can just find other like-minded believers who are ready to do this thing and you all just begin to meet as an Ecclesia. But some people are like, well, I don't know that many people that want to do it this way. That's why discovery groups are great. Just start inviting lost people into your home, sharing the gospel and eventually they'll fall away and go on with their lives or they'll stay and get born again and then boom, you birth an Ecclesia. So- Yeah. So like all three of these groups, you, if you know at least one person that's half interested, you have somewhere to start at all times. That's right. And then even if you don't know one person on the outside, you start with your family. But there's always somewhere to just start and then begin to pray, Lord of the Harvest, send labors into the harvest. Like you start to pray for the Lord to put the pieces together to introduce you to people, to put people in your path, things like that and just be open to those different types of gatherings. And when you know that, now that you know, like, oh, these are the different types of meetings that I can have, now you're prepared when you meet a person to figure out like, hey, what does this look like? And there's so many different options and avenues. It doesn't just have to be like, oh my goodness, I'm overwhelmed because I have to start, you know, an organic church gathering in my home. And what about leadership and what do we do when we get there and do we eat food? Do we not? What do we do with the kids? And like you're worried about all this stuff. And it's like, Jesus's command is just to make disciples. So like start with one on one. Right. Meeting disciples. That's the why. Teaching people to obey the Lord after you begin obeying him. Well, what's your favorite type of group? Because I think we have differences in what groups we thrive in the most because our gifteens are so different. Probably the L.T.G. Yeah. One on one. Yeah. Justin's an introvert and he's a teacher. I'm an evangelist and super like, enjoy to be prophetic. So I love the discovery groups are my favorite. That's where I really thrive. We're just going through the gospel and people getting born again. Justin gets the last group we had because your discovery groups like again, sometimes it can be five people, sometimes it can be 30. Sometimes it can be all familiar faces. Sometimes there's four familiar faces and ten new faces. And I think that stresses you out a little bit. You're like, all these new people coming into the house. Like for you, it seems like work having to make new connections each week. Which so that's what gets me stirred up. I love new connections on a regular basis. So it's interesting how we're so different in that way. Yeah. And we're all different. And so I think that is an important transition to move into something like talking about how different people, different personalities and also different giftings integrate into these types of gatherings. Because some people may be like, oh my goodness, like, I've got to start ten groups and I've got to do all this and I've got to do all that. And they don't, you know what I'm saying? Yeah. Like, how do you think different personalities and more importantly, different giftings? Apostolic giftings or prophetic giftings or evangelistic or teaching or shepherding, like how do those all play a part in these different types of gatherings? Yeah. It's funny because our actual Echolocia fellowship, everyone's pretty mature in that group. They're everybody's been walking with the Lord for some time. Or if they haven't been walking for some time, they've really immersed themselves into Christ. So they're maturing very quickly. And so you begin to see the gifs manifest in the group, you know. So Justin's a teacher. So he's constantly wanting to like search through the scriptures and process the scriptures. And then we have two really strong shepherds in the group. And they're constantly just wanting to hear people talk about their lives, you know. And then you have me who's the evangelistic person and prophetic and I'm always sharing testimony. Justin's like, more doesn't it, you know. And then you might have the person in the group that is a bit more, maybe they're just new and they're taking it all in and they don't even know where they fit. You'll notice they observe, but they kind of figure out and discover who they are because they'll be drawn to a specific person in the room. But normally the Apostolic person in the room is the one that's the most quiet because they're really just a father like facilitating, making sure like healthy community in life is going on and like observing. And like when they open their mouth, it's, they're really wise. They have a like what comes out is just very deep, which I think you kind of fall in that. You might not talk a lot, but when you do talk, it's worth listening to. So. Yeah, it's like foundation. Yeah. Foundation laying. Do you think, do you think looking at all three of these types of groups? Do you think you always need an Apostolic person there? To begin with, yes, I do think you need Apostolic people. I think that's sometimes why people's groups struggle in the beginning because they don't maybe have that Apostolic person at first or that prophetic Apostolic person to help lay a foundation, but they might only need to come a few times or maybe you just need to be connected to someone like that so that they can help you with the foundational part. That they necessarily need to be physically present in the group. We do it all the time. Like we get phone calls constantly where we're connecting with people who are in the who maybe they haven't stepped into that apostolic role or they're not apostolic, but they just need foundation and an apostolic person. We kind of play that role for them. So we've established house churches all around the United States and not even like purposely trying to do that, but they call and will have two or three phone calls with them. And the next thing you know, they birth an Ecclesia because of the practical foundational things that we, we tools we give them. So I do think it's beneficial to have some kind of apostolic prophetic person, maybe not physically in your midst, but that you can have them help you lay that foundation. It just goes smoother and it just works better. Yeah, I would say like for the one on one stuff. I agree. Yeah. You don't necessarily need, you know, an apostolic person to come in and help you establish a one on one meeting with a person, with a person. But maybe when we do our discovery groups, we have a couple people in those groups that we've been discipling. Yep. And we're making sure that we're telling, we're training them. We're saying, hey, pay attention to what's going on. Pay attention to what we talk about, like what we keep going back to, how we share the gospel, how we address certain situations. So we've always got these like, Timothy's around where like teaching and training them because you're going to do this one day, right? Well, that's exactly how our discovery group started. We had this Ecclesia, this actual body of believers. And they're in this particular group. There's two young people who have tons of influence in Austin. And so they were the kind of people that were constantly coming to our house on, not on a Sunday over for dinner, wanting to hang out and all these things. And so they're like, I have all these friends and they need to hear the gospel, but I don't feel fully quite capable yet. Like, can you show me what this looks like? So we're like, well, yeah, let's start a discovery group and they're like, well, what is that? And so we explain it. And so these two 20 year olds got 30 other people in my home. And now multiple have been born again and a fellowship's going to birth from that. And guess what? This week is the last week of me leading this discovery group and the guy and the two of the guys that we've been discipling very intentionally, one on one that are really thriving and taking off of this thing. They're going to lead it for the next six weeks. And this discovery group and they're going to walk people through it. And we're not going to be there. But they've seen it for the last 16 weeks. So now they get to kind of continue to evolve this discovery group and maybe even birth it into a fellowship without me being there. So it's going to be really cool to watch what they do with this during this next six to eight weeks, what God's going to do. But this is what true equipping looks like. And we tell them, like, listen to the scriptures 'cause I take them to the same scriptures every week and we throw, like, they probably all can quote Acts two at this point. Because we've read it so many times to understand what does it mean to know the gospel and be born again. And I'm like, watch the verses we go through. Watch how we explain it, take notes if need be and then do the same thing. And now they're able to do it. And now they're about to take over. There should be like a scripture that has Jesus doing something, showing his disciples how to do it, and then sending them off on their own to try it. Well, that's what I think. I would teach and be like, go practice what I just told you. I mean, it happens multiple times in the scripture. And as for the repetition of talking about talking about the same thing over and over in these discovery groups, I really wish there was also a scripture where Paul said something along the lines of, I come to you preaching only Christ and him crucified. It's all I got. So that I don't basically devoid the power of God by my fancy words. That's right. I mean, Gully, we could sit here and talk about eschatology and all these other things. But like, we just don't do that. We just focus on what is going to bring people to maturity in the realm of being born again and making disciples. Those other things can come, but that's not the focus. Or the goal. I think people get enamored with those kind of side theological topics too quickly. Yeah. And I'll tell you why. I think it's because when you're dealing with the foundational elements of the faith, like we've talked about in previous episodes, the foundational elements challenge you. Right. Right. Because you have to do an evaluation on yourself and be like, oh, have I walked through repentance in this area of I express true faith? Have I been baptized? Like, what do I think about judgment and, you know, eternal life and all of these different things, salvation? Do I understand how to preach the gospel? Do I understand? Have I responded properly? Like, it's a lot of self-evaluation, which Paul says in the scripture, he's like a value-h yourself, test yourself to see if you are in Christ or not. And it's these types of things that begin to get uncomfortable for the people sharing them typically and for the person that's having to respond to that. And so what we do to avoid that is we start to talk about things like eschatology, it's a bad rap. We mentioned a lot, but like eschatology or five steps or 10 steps to do this or whatever, whatever the theological, you know, topic might be of your choice. Prophetics, you people just get into this so much like that. All this like prophetic, I lofty revelation that people are like, "Wow, how did they know that?" And it's like feeds the flesh, but there's no practical application, and your life isn't transformed by it. And so we just keep going from teacher to teacher to teacher to try to learn deeper things. And then those same people you talk to don't understand how to share the gospel. - Sure, there's a lot of people. - Yeah, and so it's like, we need to recognize like, "Hey, that's why people are avoiding that, but maybe the very thing the church is avoiding is the very thing we need to experience true transformation." - Well, too one thing I hear a lot is like, we're trying to figure out our spiritual gifts. I'm like, stop trying to figure out your dang spiritual gifts. Like if you're connected to the vine, you're becoming mature, your gift will naturally just flow. Like you don't have to go figure it out. Like I didn't go like, I think I wanna see if I'm an evangelist or that Justin was like, "Girl, you love to share the gospel." - I think I figured out what the, in my opinion, what the true sign of an evangelist is. - Hmm. - You can share your testimony. 1,357 times. - He's talking about me. - The, and you do it with the same conviction in excitement, enthusiasm as if you shared it for the first time. - It gets me stirred up. Like it happened yesterday. - It's not necessarily my gift. And I'm like, if I hear this story one more time, but you're over there like, and then we did this. And I'm like, I know, I know. And I'm like, but hey, that's your gift. - Yeah, yeah. - So I love it. - Yeah, let the, let the evangelist be evangelist, but you do, you do great work. - We're slightly obnoxious, aren't we? Us evangelists over here. I love the evangelists out there in the world. - Yeah, so I think that's a good, a good ending point. Stick around for the next episode because I think it's a very important one. We discussed all these, these three different types of groups. Remember, stop asking how at the beginning and begin to ask yourself why, break that. - Really fun for why. - Like why am I gathering? Once you know why, you'll know what's one of these types of groups that you need. - And the Holy Spirit will show you how, the how. - Yeah. And then you'll begin to organically do that. That's what it means to be led by the Spirit. So we've got these, these LTGs or CO2s or kind of one on one, two to three people gathering. We've got these discovery groups that are meant for really anybody. Baxle and Christians, halfway Christians, nonbelievers, whatever, people that are trying to discover God together that can eventually as people respond to the gospel are baptized and you go through different things, they can eventually turn into an actual Ecclesia, which is just like a real church gathering, a church family that's committed to one another and meets regularly. And then you have the actual Ecclesia of Christ, the family of God, truly born again, people, gathering together, committed to one another, expressing Christ one another with Christ in his midst, nobody leading, but the Holy Spirit. You guys gather together to be equipped and attrained and to express Christ to and through each other. Those are the three types of gatherings now. In the next episode, we're gonna talk about the life cycles of these groups. What does it look like when they get to a certain point? What are some of the struggles that they go through that? Maybe-- - And transition. - Shop them, right? What are the transitions? Like where is this starting and where is it going to? How is it supposed to multiply? And better yet, how does it multiply without me getting into a traditional ministry spot where people are fully dependent on me, fully dependent on Brooke, and I can never actually do anything else. Like if I'm apostolic, I can never go on to do other works and do what I'm actually gifted to do because now I've got this ministry and-- - Now I have to fuel-- - Now I've turned it into a 501(c)(3) and an organization, and I've got a board, and I've got to do it. No, no, no, no, no, no, no, that's not what Jesus did, right? It's stopping you, and what happens is when you're trying to control this thing as if it's yours, God can no longer move in it, and you end up having to maintain it in the flesh. - That's terrible. - So stick around with that. - Well think about it, Jesus retired after three years of ministry. God. But he still-- - We should probably do what he did. - He went from being Savior and Evangelist to advocate or retired. - Yeah. - That's a cool gig. (laughing) All right, it's gonna be good. So we'll see you in that episode. Thanks for hanging around today. We love you guys. - Yeah. - Appreciate you, and we'll see you in the next episode.