Snapchat Affair Ends In Devastating Murder: The Case Of Ryan Cooper

[MUSIC] Hello, everyone, and welcome back to another episode of True Crime with Kendall Ray. Thank you so very much for joining me today, and if you're new to the show, make sure to click subscribe or follow whether you are listening or watching this episode and depending on where you are doing that from. I hope that makes any sense. But that way you'll never miss an episode for me. So you guys, I have got to say, I have been covering True Crime for many years now. I have seen a lot of, well, just straight up dumb shit in my day, and I'm talking next level. You cannot imagine someone could possibly be so stupid, but somehow they are. And what honestly shocks me is that these stupid people are oftentimes accompanied by more idiots that are part of their stupid plan. And it's people who think that they can get away with absolutely anything, especially if they keep their story straight or they delete their Google searches. It will never cease to amaze me that people still to this day don't understand. You cannot get rid of what you look up online. If you have said or searched something and criminating on your phone or your laptop, it can and it will be found. Maybe not so much like 20 years ago. And before that, but in the last five to 10 years, it's all definitely traceable. And that's why it just shocks me so much that people are still doing that shit they're doing today. And that ladies and gentlemen leads me into the case. I'm going to be telling you about today. We're going to be talking about the absolutely heartbreaking, very frustrating murder of Ryan Cooper who was a loving father of four who only ever wanted to work as hard as he could to provide for his family and himself. Ryan's case is so upsetting for many different reasons. And I was truly pissed off at several points while preparing for this episode. But one of the biggest reasons that this case just really infuriates me and tugs at your heartstrings really is the fact that he had an absolute trader in his life. Luckily, though, that trader is an absolute moron. And we love that for them because morons always get caught, right? But of course, it doesn't change the fact that at the end of the day, Ryan is no longer here. His children are without a father and no amount of justice can truly repair what has been lost. I think Ryan's story truly deserves to be told and to be told right. And I feel like I've been kind of saying this a lot lately, like across my different shows. But the professional coverage done on this case in my opinion, and I'm not going to call out anyone specifically was not very good. And to be clear, I'm not talking about other creators or podcasters at all. I'm talking about professional coverage. And so I wanted to cover it myself because I think his story can be told a lot more clear and without being salacious. Before getting into this episode, I just wanted to thank you all for listening to and supporting my show and also any of the mile hire media shows. Your support makes it possible for us to continue funding grants through my foundation Higher Hope, which supports victims of violent crimes, their families and like-minded nonprofits. And with that, let's go ahead and jump into Ryan's case. So Ryan Roy Cooper was born on June 1st, 1979 in Waterloo, Iowa, to his parents Jan and Connie. And he also has a few siblings, Michelle, Aaron and Jason. Now the Cooper's were a Midwest farming family. And it's been said that Ryan knew that he wanted to fill his father's shoes from a very young age. After graduating from North Taima High School in 1998, he officially joined the family farming business where he drove trucks and helped produce cattle. Farming seemed to truly be a really big deal to the Cooper family. And so it sounds like Ryan really took a lot of pride in being able to carry on that tradition or his family. And on top of farming, he was also a very loving devoted father when he and his wife first got pregnant, his first wife to be clear. He was just elated to be having his first baby boy. There's not much information available online about why his first marriage didn't work out, but honestly, I don't think it really matters. Whatever the reason is that it didn't work out between them, it certainly didn't stop Ryan from wanting to find love. And in September of 2009, he married a woman named Karina Alperse and together they had three kids at their own, two boys and a girl. And Ryan's love for his children was seen and felt by everyone. So to be clear, Ryan is a father of four. He has his first son from his first marriage and then he has three children with Karina as well. And as cliche as it sounds and I know it's something that is said in true crime all the time, it's certainly something that I say often, but there's no other way to describe it really. But things on the surface of their marriage seemed to be just fine. Things seemed to be going very well. I mean, of course they had their shit who doesn't. But you know, for the most part, people around them thought they were quite happy. They lived in a small town of Trey or Iowa and Karina worked as a hairdresser. And she was every bit as, you know, chatty and social as you might imagine someone with that job to be. And Ryan on the other hand had a much more laid back demeanor, which was perfect for a life of farming, of course. And he actually worked alongside his sister, Michelle, who was the farm's business accountant and his brother Aaron, who helped him manage the crops and the animals, all of that. Now, sadly, their mom did pass away. But according to Michelle, she says she knew that she would have been proud of the way that they were all working together. And I think it's really cool that they were able to work together because it can be difficult to work with family, right? And for many years, the status quo for the Cooper family was family, farming, and friends. And Ryan definitely had a big group of friends who all enjoyed doing outdoorsy things together between boating, camping, and motorcycling. It sounds like he spent a lot of time out in nature, surrounded by good people, just really living a simple, happy, fulfilling life. And Karina also had a big group of friends. They actually called themselves the Tama County Housewives, which of course, if you've seen the Bravo Housewives series, this meant that there were many girls trips and wine nights and gossip sessions, things like that. When it comes to Tama County, though, there wasn't a whole lot of excitement, you could say. Obviously, they had your typical small town gossip because no matter how big your town is, there is going to be gossip, correct? But nothing ever really warranted any kind of news-worthy attention. Or at least that's how it was until June 18, 2021, the day that Ryan Cooper was murdered. That morning, at 4.34 a.m., Ryan's brother, Aaron, called 911. And Aaron only lived a few miles away from his brother's house. And he had just received a call moments before this from Karina screaming at the top of her lungs that someone had broken into their home. As this was taking place, Aaron jumps into his truck and just races over to the house. And like you heard, he does sound relatively calm, but he later unexplained that was because he just didn't understand the gravity of the situation. He barely understood this situation at all because through her screams and sobs, Karina only mentioned that there was an intruder, not that her husband had been killed. And then when he arrived, Aaron said he was even less concerned because Ryan's oldest son, his nephew, was the one who opened the door. We have a female 911, but can't understand her? Okay. I'm just wondering if that's her. It probably is. I am armed. Do you want me to proceed? Okay. Yeah, I think that just came out and told me to come out. Okay. But moments later, as he's getting further into the house, you can hear the panic in his voice really starts to build because he realizes what had actually happened. Take a listen. When Aaron went into the living room, he sees his brother slumped over on his recliner chair, clearly deceased with a large pool of blood surrounding him. And he told the dispatcher he didn't know if Ryan had been shot, that there was just too much blood to know for sure. But there was no pulse when he checked. Now, Aaron is actually a volunteer firefighter. So he did have formal training about how not to disturb a scene. The same, however, cannot be said for Karina, because she was literally sitting on top of him. And as she's sitting on his body, she just continues to scream at the top of her lungs. It's absolutely terrifying to listen to. And you can definitely hear it all in the background of Aaron's 911 call as well as the 911 call that she plays herself. Baby, wait! [crying] Now, there are 911 calls came in simultaneously, but despite Karina's call being somewhat more descriptive, it wasn't until the first deputy actually arrived at the scene, which was at 4.42am, that the seriousness of this situation was really made clear. For my audio only listeners, I am about to play some body cam footage from the deputy that first arrived at the scene, and if you do want to see it, it does help quite a bit to actually be able to visualize this yourself, so that is available, of course, on YouTube. But when he came in the house, he is greeted by Aaron, they go into the living room where Karina can be seen, straddling Ryan's body. And I want to warn you, this video and audio is quite disturbing, but it is very important to the case that you are able to see it. Now, Sheriff's Office, let's go on. God, seeing that footage just rips my heart up, I mean, this poor young boy having to see all of that, I cannot imagine the trauma that he has experienced. And his demeanor and ability to stay somewhat common collected is so impressive at his age, but yeah, seeing that is very difficult, although like I said, I think it's really important, especially to see how Karina was acting. Not only to see it, but to hear it, and yeah, just hearing his son try and calm her down, ugh, just got wrenching. Thankfully though, she and the kids were taken away from the scene, they were taken out of the house, but her hysterics continued. As you can see, Aaron, Ryan's brother is trying to calm Karina down, trying to comfort her, but imagine everything that he is trying to process in that moment as well, having just seen his brother lying there dead. So soon after this, additional officers, the medical examiner and the paramedics arrive, but it was too late to say Ryan. And there was so much blood that it was hard to tell the depth of what happened to him and what exactly happened, but it did eventually become clear to everyone that he had been shot. But what wasn't clear was whether someone had shot Ryan or he had done this to himself. So most people are familiar with CashApp. I've been using CashApp for years, it's my preferred way to send and receive money, but did you know that CashApp offers a CashApp card? And with the CashApp card, you unlock tons of perks without all the hidden fees. 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So here's a clip of Karina outside talking to a deputy and she is sharing her story in more detail when she has calmed down a little bit more. Okay. Can you put them in your truck? No, I don't want my cash, I don't want my baby. They're right there, okay. They're in your brother's truck, okay. Did you see anybody else in the house? He made noise and I turned on the light. And then that's when he was there. Everywhere. Okay, but you didn't hear or see anyone else? No, what is there here? What? What is there here? I couldn't get my fucking gun out of the safe. You couldn't get your gun out of the safe? And this is something that everyone in his life agrees with Karina on. There is no way that he would have done this to himself. That was, you know, something that no one in his life entertained for even a moment. And when Aaron called their sister Michelle before they even had any details about what had actually happened, she did not think it was even a possibility that he would have taken his own life. One friend did say that he had been a little bit down lately, but not so bad that he would have left his children without a father, let alone take his own life in a house where his children are sleeping. And for investigators, the scene certainly didn't suggest that this was self-inflicted. I mean, for starters, they couldn't find the gun, which if he had done this to himself, that would have definitely been nearby. And then they also learned that he was shot in the face twice. So that really shuts the idea of this being self-inflicted down. The autopsy would later confirm this, as well as the fact that his manner of death was indeed homicide. Plus, and this was a big one, they found a single 22 caliber shell casing at the scene. So let's do the math here. Two gunshots, one casing. What does that tell us? Someone has taken the other casing with them. That being said, though, these facts don't automatically make the intruder theory true, and as investigators are continuing to process the scene, they found conflicting evidence to that idea. First of all, there was no sign of forced entry. There was cash on the living room table, and according to Carina, the family's 100 pound protective rot wiler who had been sleeping in the bed never alerted that anyone was in the home. Anyone who's had experience with really any protective dog breed, but especially a rot wiler knows how protective they are. They don't just chill while an intruder comes through the house. They don't continue to sleep through it. So of course, all these things together are starting to form a picture where there was no intruder, but they did find a bloody chuprin outside of the house, as well as her wallet in the driveway, as if maybe someone had stolen it, taken the cash, and then dumped it before driving off. And that could possibly suggest that there wasn't intruder. So to get a better picture of everything really, Carina was brought into the station later that day, and she had calmed down quite a bit. And while she was there, she was questioned by two agents with the Iowa DCI who had already been brought in to support the Tamah County Sheriff's Office with the investigation. And like I said by this point, she had really settled down quite a bit, so she was able to more clearly explained what she said happened. So you fall asleep between midnight, you think that you get up around three because you're kind of your usual time, okay? And then you go back to bed, shut the door, the kids are in there, are they back to sleep? Okay. And I didn't feel like I was like, hard asleep when it sounded like something crashed in the kitchen, so I don't like something falling. You know, a wire rack in the shower, and it's on a suction hook thing, and it fell a couple days ago, and it was loud, and it sounded just like that. And that woke you up or that? You scared me? I'm kind of late there for a second. See, kids woke up, which they didn't. I got up and I peaked in the living room, and he was laying there, and I went to the kitchen and turned the light on, and I lived in the living room. I look in there first before I went to the kitchen and I looked like you were sleeping. So when you turn on the light what exactly do you remember seeing? I just look like you were sleeping. Okay. And I walked up to them and such as put their blood like everywhere and started screaming like a lot. But I can't wait to hear their kids. I don't know what I've got. I also couldn't even sit on the house. I put them in my bedroom and told them to lock the door. Then they go all the air. And air and lips just down the road, right? Karina also talked about how she crawled on Ryan. She shook him. She even hit him trying to wake him up. And then she talked about how she called Aaron and was attempting to get their gun from the gun safe. So when you notice it obviously, you see the large amount of blood. And you realize it's something, something's wrong, right? You make an attempt to touch him, do you? I crawled on him and he hit him. I think he was screaming in the face to wake up. Okay. You think you were hitting him? I think I could hit him trying to wake up. Shaking out. Okay. So after trying to wake him up or get his attention, you said you caught Aaron? I called Aaron before. I touched him. Whatever. And then I just heard it screaming. It's screaming. Okay, can't tell. So I told him to get in my room with the other two kids and I called Aaron for in there. In the sense of room? Yeah. I think I talked to Fenrir. I was in and out. I went in and talked to it. And then I thought I had to go and go for it, right? I tried to get my stupid gun and I don't even know how to work. I've never shot out of the safe things that we had to have. And I couldn't even get the thing open. Then she was of course asked about Ryan's behavior the last few days. And more importantly, she was asked about how their relationship had been going. Not about the ordinary with Ryan's behavior yesterday. Okay. What about in the last few days or like the last week? Is there anything on the ordinary with him or maybe between the two of you reading like that? No. Better than we have been for a while. Kids are finally getting older and we can breathe again. He's got a lot on his plate right now. His mom passed away a year ago, so some shift and responsibilities with the farm. You mentioned that things have been better now recently than they were in the past. But they've been bad. We're just finally getting to spend some time together again. And not have a child all the time on top of us. Not to be personal. But again, these are things we need to ask. Just try to figure this thing out. Has there been any marital issues between the two of you? We had a rough patch shortly after his mom passed away where we just weren't. When we were getting along, there wasn't any real issue. We were just both sad and mad and not communicating. He shut the film. Okay. Nothing where there was ever any doubt about our marriage. Okay, so no fairs of any kind by humor, by humor. And the only reason I ask is if someone went in and did something to him. And again, we don't know. Could be that. Could be medical. We don't know. I'm just thinking about like the scoring lover or type of actor. He's got that. No. Okay. So there's no. We don't know anywhere. We don't get anything. He might go to the bar after work with his friend Riley. And he's never home past eight. That's how exciting we are. Now, as her interview is taking place, Erin is also at the station speaking to detectives himself. And he brought up something that they could not ignore. He tells them that Ryan and Karina had recently experienced some problems in their marriage because of a guy named Houston Denker. I guess Ryan had supposedly seen a Snapchat on Karina's phone from Houston, which made mention of seeing her naked or something along those lines not totally clear. But after taking a brief break in the middle of Karina's interview, this was obviously something they asked her about. What can you tell me about your relationship with Houston? You catch her reaction to that via immediate shock or attempted shock. Denker? Yeah. My friend? Okay. And I'm going to be blunt with you and be forward with you. The only reason we ask is Erin made mention about maybe Ryan seeing someone on your Snapchat. Not that that was Houston, but maybe there was something with your Snapchat. Last fall, there was a Snapchat that wasn't even meant for me. Okay. Tell me about that. Supposedly, Ryan saw it, not me. He told me about it. It was something about a married woman and naked seeing her naked or something like that. Okay. And Ryan saw it and confronted me. And I confronted Houston, who were friends on Snapchat. That's it. Ryan took a picture of the message that he sent through Snapchat about something about being a married woman or something. I heard it even saw it because I didn't know what the hell it was. Okay. And he swore up and down it wasn't meant for me. And I had snapped. We had snapped each other earlier in the day that day because he got some product from my salon. Okay. So he said that he sent it to the wrong person. This is dumb. Oh, we're trying to get to the bottom of them. Oh, my God. I'm just making sure that all the questions are answered. So, correct me if I'm wrong. Is it a situation where Houston sends a snap to you that's not supposed to go to you? Supposedly. That he did send a snap to me. Yes. That is about you being a married woman or naked with a married woman. I don't know. You don't know. Well, what does Ryan say about that? He's. we've talked about it since, and we've talked about it with friends. That's how non-issue it became after we've talked about it that said something about. remember? I've seen you naked and something about a married woman. Has Houston seen you naked? No. God, no. Okay. He's 22 years old. No. To reach the wrong. I'm just stupid. Telled in their. roars, no. Okay. I cut his hand off. Okay. I watched his kids a couple times when his babies had her flaked. So, and I'm not trying to book words in your mouth, but it's safe to say that nothing is going on between you and him. Absolutely not. After that snap chat, I don't even talk. I won't cut his hair anymore. He's told Ryan I would just keep a distance from everybody, from him, from his brother, for anybody related in that age group. Okay. To make him feel better and has been a non-issue since then. And this was, you said last fall, get a better time frame on that? This snap was non-last fall. It was more like the spring or late winter. Okay. Last fall is when I was supposedly horsing around with him because a baby said his kids and his truck was at my house. Because I gave you said his kids. That's what all that stupid Houston-Danker stuff started with. Okay. So very adamant that everything with Houston-Danker is a big nothing burger, right? But yeah, after this, Karina was allowed to leave and she went back with her brother Kurt to their mother's house. And I believe that's where her children were as well. And oh my god, this is just so disturbing. My heart absolutely shattered when I heard this. But according to a friend of theirs who had gone to see the kids that morning, she said both of the boys had their fathers blood on them. And his oldest son, the one who had answered the door for Aaron, actually said that he felt guilty for what had happened. Which just breaks my heart. And we see that so often in these cases, kids who have absolutely nothing to do with what happened carry this type of guilt. And this guilt was coming from the fact that normally he slept on the couch near his dad's recliner. And just a few days before his father was murdered, his mother, Karina. Told him that he needed to start sleeping in his bed again. So he sort of felt like maybe this wouldn't have happened if he was there with his dad, which makes sense for a child to feel that way. But of course, it's just devastating thinking he had to deal with those thoughts because it's so untrue. And it's situations like that that just remind you that when someone takes the life of another, they're not just taking their life. They're taking the lives of those around them who will be forever altered by what they have experienced and what they have lost. And in this case, and in so many cases where a parent is killed, they're taking so much from their children or their child. So much of their innocence, you know, it's just hard to even put into words. And I wanted to quickly mention that there are some great resources available for children who are experiencing grief, whether it's related to homicide or not. And I just wanted to throw out there that there's an example called the National Alliance for Children's Grief. They are a nonprofit that raises awareness about the needs of grieving children. And they also help connect families to resources and local support. And they just want to ensure that no child grieves alone. And I really, really stand behind what they do. 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That's 20% off any additional pairs when you purchase one pair at Warby W-A-R-B-Y Parker.com/tckr. But back to the case, though, as I was saying, Karina was able to leave. And that same afternoon, they were actually able to bring back the man that they were talking about earlier with the Snapchat's Houston Danker. And it seems like the tactic for questioning him really was to make him feel as comfortable, as possible, totally not threatened. And I think it was a really good way to approach him. What I'm going to do is I'm going to really cut to the chase. Why your name came up is Ryan Cooper Knight. And one of the first, I don't know, in the first hour someone said, "Hey, we heard that Karina sounded a fair with Houston." That's why you're here, okay? Yeah. So all I got to do is I got to sort out a few things with you about that. I'm going to get you out of here, and then we can all put you again some other time. But the rumors out there, so we have to talk here, right? Yeah. He went over some basic information about himself that we don't really need to get into. But the important facts to know are that he was 24 years old, not 22, and he also worked in the farming industry. Now, I should mention that it turns out Houston had a bit of a reputation. He was known around town for, I guess, you could call it sexual preferences. Houston was into older women. Cougars, you could say. Apparently, he once had an affair with his best friend's mom, and that ended with her getting a divorce. So his best friend's parents got divorced because of him. So not necessarily relevant to the case, but pretty interesting. And yeah, he was being questioned, and he seemed to really downplay the connection that he had to Karina. All right, so the rumor that's going around is Ryan, or you and Karina were Snapchatting. Did that actually happen at some point? Yeah, okay. When did that happen? Yeah, I mean, if it's once a week, twice a year, you know, I mean it's, is this still going on? With me and Karina. No, I mean it's, like you said, it's random Snapchat shit, you know, I mean it's. Randomly? Yeah. And how long has that been going on for? Oh, shit. I don't know. Probably November, October, and you think you said once or twice a week? Yeah, I mean it's not, it's not anything, but you know, just your typical snap, like I said, Snapchat ran up, you know. Did Ryan never know about you to Snapchatting? Oh yeah. I mean you heard it yourself, but he makes it seem like their Snapchatting was totally cash and something that Ryan even knew about. But here's where things get interesting. The guy questioning him gave him a pretty open door to say that he and Karina were having an affair, but he maintained that they were just friends. Yeah, so we have her phone, okay, Ryan's phone, and what we are able to do is they say we're able to clone everything off the phone in order to. So any conversation that she's had with you, even if she deleted it, we can still get it, it's like FBI technology stuff, so we'll still get that, we'll get locations, we'll be able to get all that kind of data. I mean the stuff that we can do now as opposed to what we can do back in the 90s with cell phone, it's like. it's unbelievable, really. So if you were screwing around with her, does it make you a killer? No, like that, right? Guess what? People have affairs all the time. Right. There's not a perfect marriage out there, at least that I'm aware of, where people don't sometimes do things that they don't regret, whether it's. You know, have a argument that they said something they shouldn't know, where they have an affair, or they. you know, used too many drugs, or too much alcohol, or gamble too much, everybody's got weird shit going on in their life, right? So I want you to get too nervous because if you had enough hair with Karina, it doesn't make you guilty of anything other than you had enough hair with her. Right. Well, then I'll put it this way. I'll completely dumb it down. So like, with me and Karina, the hard thing with all that rumor being spread is I was literally sitting there like, I would say, a gay best friend. Oh, okay, just a gay best friend. That's so cute. Totally makes sense now. Thank you so much, wow. But let's keep going and listen to him explain how he and Karina's friendship evolved. Me and my baby mama split up. I was getting my hair cut by Karina and I have two kids. She loves kids, whatever. She always told me, if you're ever in a pinch, I don't have a problem watching your kids, whatever. And so everybody was friends, whatever. She watched my kids a couple times when I was in a pinch. Well, then it fucking, I was small town's talk. Houston's kids are over at Karina's, he's fucking nailing her. And I guess that's probably where Ryan probably got upset. You know, I mean, you kind of, hey, again, I keep them. I don't know you. I tell you for like 10 minutes now. Yeah, but you can't get a reputation where you're pretty successful with the ladies, right? I'm better luck in some, or not as bad as others years ago. I mean, it's bad to say, but I mean, I'm with two kids. All right. So your kids are staying over or Karina would watch them or be known. I think she watched them a total of fuck three times. Did you meet Karina then just from the hair shop? Yeah, I've always known Karina. Everybody's always known Karina and Ryan. Because obviously I grew up in chair, but that's where, you know, she started cutting my hair and bullshit, you know, then how long were you getting your hair cut there? Two years out there, a year and a half. And then the snap chatting, did that kind of coincide with watching the kids around that? Yeah, that's where that's where that picked up was, you know, there for a while Karina, she was just my, you know, cut my hair. whatever and then you know I started having kids and she you know I obviously needed fucking help because what you know I wasn't I wasn't telling her I wasn't telling her I needed help but I was kind of you know right and then she offered and yeah that's where the I would say that's where the chatting started you know the the friendship you know them he gets into his alibi so what was your day like yesterday no got to work typically yesterday I got to work about 645 mode A until well what time we got down about I would say 637 o'clock last night when we finished up where'd you go after that well I left van horn and naturally you know I needed gas so I ran into a trailer you have gas and trailer and then went home and I know and who was home with you last night just I would by myself pretend you think you went to bed last night oh probably 11 11 30 so after yeah yeah I'd say 10 30 11 so we do the thing it's called a geofence and what the geofence does it's a technology thing that I'm not capable of explaining but say this is this is Ryan's house and Karina's house yep we do what we do is a geofence so we'll take the map or whatever and draw like a big box oh around it and every phone that travels through that box at a certain time frame yep gets picked up and there's this it's scary if you knew how easily our phone our phones are literally being tracked whether we want it at any point say like after midnight or would we are we gonna find your phone in our box the interview and shortly after that they said they you know might have some follow up questions for him but he's free to go on and live his life as normal Karina however of course was under quite a microscope and she was brought in for questioning the following day and they were a lot less gentle with her this time around over the course of the last 24 hours investigators had finished processing the house and it had started to become clear to them that this was likely not a random home invasion so when they brought her in this time it was because they were growing suspicious of her and her story apologize to me for because as a married couple we had a few months that we were communicating very well because we dealt with his mom's death we're we've been fine never once did either one of us ever say that we were gonna leave never once did we doubt our marriage our kids our family we have plans and this was just absolutely mind-blowing to me but she denies even knowing how to fire a gun despite having a permit to carry which mind you requires firearm safety training in order to obtain in the state of Iowa and then eventually she ends up storming out I don't even know how to fire a gun why why do you have a permit to carry you know even though it's pretty obvious that investigators were suspicious of her from the very beginning they did do their due diligence and looked into other possibilities for example please did get a tip that Ryan was in a bar fight a few nights before he was killed and so they of course reviewed the bar security footage to see if maybe that was a potential lead and it ended up being absolutely nothing and they didn't even look like they were fighting in the video but of course it was worth checking out I'm glad they did but they also looked into a former employee named Nolan who Karina had mentioned to them now Nolan had been a business partner for the family farm operation and he had previously been in trouble with the law for bank fraud I guess he had written like a quarter of a million dollars worth of bad check some pretty wild but I don't believe that any of it was related to the farm from what I understand at least but either way the Cooper's fired him because they felt like he may have been doing more shady shit and they just didn't want to risk anything and so investigators thought you know maybe this is a possibility maybe he was angry with Ryan maybe there's some type of connection there but after interviewing Nolan and following up with his alibi as well they ultimately decided that he wasn't a suspect either and as for their friends and families theories nobody could pinpoint who would possibly want Ryan dead even Karina this is something that she said over and over everyone loves him no one would want to hurt him so one theory that started floating around by friends and family and also just people in the town was the idea that the farm was off of a major highway and people thought maybe someone did this as a crime of opportunity there was even this big carnival just one town over that weekend so that made some people question if someone over there just came and did this randomly but in that small of the town something like that happening is very very unlikely plus a double gunshot wound to the face feels incredibly personal and of course with this being a small town people are talking about all the different possibilities trying to make sense of this and people definitely were talking about Houston and people had heard rumors about him but for the most part from what I could tell it was sort of laughed off by most people one of Karina's friends even said that she thought Houston was more of a lover than a fighter so it seemed like in most people's mind it just really wasn't very likely for him to be involved but regardless everyone in the town was totally freaked out as they should be something like this is so uncommon there and it's a very very terrifying murder so of course people started walking their doors and this is a town where people are known for just leaving their doors unlocked especially people who have been there a really long time and have never witnessed anything like this were remotely like this happening so people are also putting up security cameras and I don't blame them I mean it's scary and that fear only got more and more intense for people as time went on because I mean how can you feel safe when months go by without an arrest and this person is potentially still on the loose potentially still in their town and what's really wild and quite unheard of I was pretty surprised by this is this case was classified as cold within the first six or seven months but internally speaking it sounds like it wasn't cold for a lack of suspects but instead a lack of a restable evidence investigators felt strongly that Karina was involved in her husband's murder and her motive or one of them at least was apparently not hard to find turns out her finances were a fucking mess and she was constantly over drafting her accounts other people said that she and Ryan disagreed over certain financial decisions so when they found he had a half million dollar life insurance policy out in his name the alarm bells started to ring and I'm sure this was something you were waiting to hear about just as I was when I started researching this case I knew that there had to be an insurance policy of course the issue is though a life insurance policy is not proof of murder by any means and neither was Karina's vile behavior when she drank listen to this when some of her friends spoke with police they found out that Karina really had another side to her when she drank so much so that they had a name for this other version of Karina that would come out and of course that name was Karen and what's funny is they say that they started calling her Karen before the Karen name was popularized as a certain type of person that we all know but yeah they would call her Karen when she was drunk and when she was specifically really nasty when she was drunk I guess she would have these super angry outbursts just terrible behavior embarrassing and a lot of her anger and outbursts were directed at Ryan and she would just say these terrible things to him and I guess Ryan and some of their other friends would really just brush off this behavior because she was drunk and be like oh you know she's in Karen mode that type of thing and you know I have some friends who when they drink they just become completely different people and I use friends lightly like some people that are in my life and I have one specifically that we actually have a nickname for when she drinks but definitely not to the level that they are describing Karina as when she was in her Karen mode and some of them really started to wonder if it wasn't just drunk behavior if maybe Karina really had a dark side to her. But of course being a bitch when you're drunk doesn't necessarily make you a killer. So the case stalled and it ultimately took another two years before any more progress was made. So I am currently in Canada actually working on a secret project that I'm really excited about. I'm pretty regimented about the days that I work out and Tuesday is a workout day for me. But that's not a problem for me because I can work out anywhere because I work out with a ladder app and maybe you're someone who's just getting into working out and you feel a little lost at the gym or maybe you're tired of doing random workouts from YouTube or Instagram reels with no results. A ladder gives you a real plan from an expert coach. Now I have used digital weight the last couple of years for my strength training and so I am new to dumbbell specifically. And so I have learned through the ladder app just how many exercises I can do with just a pair of dumbbells and how to do them right. Make sure that my forms correct. So I'm getting the best possible results and I'm not going to hurt myself in the process. And what's cool about ladder is you get a new plan every week that bend builds on the last and the workouts connect. Each week progresses from the one before through the structured training blocks. And so you can really see your progress and it feels like having a coach right there with you because they have in ear coaching guides that walk you through every set with cues warm reminders and motivation. I love it because I can still have my music on and it just kind of turns it down when I'm getting a cue. I also can work out with my aura ring on and it'll track my entire workout through the ladder app. I love the coaches on the app too. They don't feel intimidating. They feel like real people and it also feels like there's a real community behind it because your team has a group chat where coach answers questions and other members motivate each other. Plus it costs less than a dollar a day. That's a lead level personal training for a fraction of what you would pay in person. So remove the guesswork with ladder and get a real coach in your ear telling you exactly what to do for every workout. No thinking, everything planned for you. If you have an iPhone, head to ladder.fit/tckr and take a quick quiz to find your perfect ladder plan. Use my link and get a free seven day trial with no credit card and ten dollars off your first month if you join. In 2023, one of the lead detectives on the case detective Killian started to get frustrated that more wasn't being done and his mind Karina's behavior was suspicious and he felt like this case was solvable. And there were a few things that really stood out to him and in my opinion these are pretty big red flags, pretty obvious red flags that I'm sure a lot of you have already picked up on as well. I mean for starters, Karina calls Erin before she calls 911. Interesting. And then of course, and I know a lot of you had thoughts about this right away, but the fact that she was throwing herself all over Ryan's body when first responders arrived, that is a huge red flag. And detective Killian felt the same way. I mean, she was literally rubbing her face on his. She was getting his blood all over her. Almost seems like she was trying to make a reason for his blood to be on her, right? Not to mention the fact that they never saw her attempt to render any kind of aid. And she didn't seem concerned with the fact that her children were literally in the room. I guess I can't speak on what I would do in this situation because I have never been in this situation. And I hope that I never will be, but I just cannot imagine not shielding your kids or trying to comfort them as they are looking at their other parents dead body. I can't imagine a world where I wouldn't be able to function enough or at least have the thought of how horrible that has to be for them. And you know, again, what can I really say because I've never been in that situation. So I don't want to judge too much, but I think most of you who are parents will agree with me that how can that not cross your mind? And then another huge red flag to detective Killian that I haven't mentioned to you yet is that she never contacted law enforcement during this entire time to ask where her husband's murder case stood to ask if there was any updates. Anything never called even Ryan's family who initially seemed to really stand by her started to question if maybe she could be involved just because of the way that she was acting. Apparently when she found out that there was a shell casing left at the crime scene, she called Aaron to ask him what that meant, which is very odd like obviously a shell casing being left behind at the scene is a good thing if you want to know what happened to your spouse unless you're hiding something. So yeah, even Ryan's family started to feel like something was off about her. But what's interesting though is Aaron and Michelle were actually told to keep Karina close because investigators were hopeful that maybe she might slip up and say something if she feels comfortable enough. Granted that didn't end up happening, she never slipped up, but surprisingly she did agree to come in for another interview. It took place on May 4th, 2023 right there on the farm and the purpose was to hear more of her story and to hear if anything had changed. Here's a portion of that audio and I want to say thank you to the channel stay awake, crime and psychology for sourcing this footage as well as some of the additional footage used in today's episode. Big shout out to you guys. "I'd up and kind of just look and find that noise and find Ryan. Why didn't he wake up to that?" "Yeah." "When I went in the living room, I said his name a couple of times because it looked like he was sleeping." "You know, I remember Aaron over my shoulder, took his pulse and he was on the phone with 911 because I remember him saying no, there's no pulse or something about it, but screamed and screamed. I know that and I'm embarrassed that I did everything wrong and I just remember screaming. I thought somebody was here." "And was ransom in the batters? He was at the foot of the bed." "Because you said you almost tripped over and ran." "I did, tripped over and ran." After a little while, it seems like she wanted it to be over and that's when she was confronted by the fact that they did not believe her story. Using Geofence technology, they determined that no cell phones entered the area in or around their house before or after the shooting, suggesting that the killer was already inside. And boy, did that piss her off. "We'll be finishing up soon, so if there's something you have to do yet." "Yeah, yeah, I appreciate your time. Thank you so much." So Karina, I mean, at this point, the case fact shows that nobody did come into the house that night. "Somebody did." "Somebody obviously came in here. My husband's dead." "He is Karina, and we both know at this point why that is." Karina, we know that it wasn't someone coming inside the house. "You're leaving my property now." "Somebody came into my house and killed my husband. Go figure out who killed my husband." "Well, we did. We did." "No, you obviously did." She then runs out of her house and you can hear how not so pleasantly that ended. "Let's talk about this." "No, get off my property. You want to talk to my lawyer?" "Well, I don't want to talk to you. I just want to talk to you because you're the one that knows what happened to Ryan that night." "No, I don't. If I knew what happened to my husband, I'd be in jail because we're the dead." Karina. "Get off my property." Hopefully they were not expecting a confession from her because yikes, but the good news is that was not even necessary. After a failed first attempt trying to get the help of the Iowa Attorney General's Office, Detective Killian pitched the case one more time to the AG herself, leaning into her pursuit of Iowa cold cases and she agreed to look into it. And not long after this, a new prosecutor, Michael Ringel, was assigned to Ryan's case and what a massive blessing that was. And for the next several months, he dug into the details and he ultimately came to the only reasonable conclusion. Karina Cooper was responsible for her husband's murder. So on February 19th, 2024, Detective Killian was among a group of deputies who arrived at her residence and arrested Karina for first degree murder. "All right, we got some paperwork for you. Well, you're under arrest." "What?" "Yep. So we're placing you under arrest. There's going to be some people at the sheriff's office that are going to be talking to you." "Well, I'm under arrest. If you'll let me, my children, you guys, my children, what is happening here?" "What is happening here?" "So you have a copy of a beer bottle, yeah." "I don't understand. What?" "This is insane. My kids are going to be so scared." "How is this happening?" "Oh, I love that clip. So satisfying." Detective Killian actually said that this was one of the best moments of his career and honestly, how could it not be? I can't even imagine what that was like. The satisfaction after all of those years had to just feel so good. It's so satisfying to even watch it. That being said, of course, not everyone shared in the excitement for her arrest. Her brother Kurt was very heartbroken and he couldn't help but think that investigators had to have this wrong. And he truly believed in her innocence. In fact, he got her really good defense attorney and he was hoping that they would be able to prove her innocence very quickly. but what Kurt didn't know, at least not yet, was that the evidence against her was only getting stronger. You guys, I mean buckle up for what we're about to go over. You may or may not have caught this in the earlier clips that I have played, but investigators did have possession of Karina's phone, well actually phones. She actually had three phones, and they had all of them from the start. And while all of those devices had already undergone a forensic examination, a second more thorough examination was done that uncovered a gold mine of evidence. Okay, listen to this. After Karina was finally arrested, a handful of her friends came in for questioning, and one of them said that she had been holding on to some information. God, that pisses me off so much. Why she did this is beyond me. I'm sure the reasons are pretty obvious. She wanted to protect her friend, but she shared that several months before Ryan's murder. She and some other moms were with Karina when they saw hundreds of snapchat messages come up on her phone from Houston. And then he showed up at the house they were all at. I have no clue why, but they ended up stealing his phone and looking at the messages. And I guess they were basically exchanging a lot of, I love yous and things that just made it clear they were together. So with this information, the new prosecutor reached out to a more experienced forensic examiner and she uncovered shit you would not believe, dude. The snapchat and text messages between Karina and Houston not only outlined that they were definitely having an affair, but it became undeniable that they had conspired to commit murder. And of course, I'm going to read you these messages. Now I am abbreviating the names of the kids for the sake of their privacy. But let's begin with March 8th, 2021, a few months before the murder, Karina Snapchat had Houston saying in part, I just read this 10 times, hard emoji. I swear, hard emoji. And just fell even harder for you, which I don't think I could have been any more crazy over you than I already was. See wants to get back to wrestling. He loves it. He just got his ass kicked out of tournament and is scared to compete now. Just wants to go to practice. And you know what the sperm donor said to him after he got his ass handed to him? Not a fucking word other than it happens. Not let's go home and I'll show you how to get out of that move. Just it happens. They need you so badly. She followed up this message with, "Good morning, baby. You had evoken up to your horny life's hand wrapped around your (beep) this morning. Just so you know, then in the same Snapchat thread, she says, "Here's hoping for a rogue semi today. Big accident, no survivors." And if it wasn't obvious, which I'm sure it is, that last message is about wanting Ryan to die. He drove semi trucks for the family business and she was literally saying that she hopes he gets in an accident where no one survives. And also, let's just run him back a second here. She also called him a sperm donor and tells Houston that her kids need him as a father instead. Just disgusting. And dude, it just keeps going. On March 12th, 2021, Karina said, "I read somewhere that even if the surgery doesn't work, you can still do IVF. Might be pregnant this time next year, heart, heart, heart." And then Houston replied, "IVF would love for you to be pregnant this time next year. I'd love babies in my slow season so I can be around to help and spend time with you and the baby as much as possible." To which Karina responded, "In vitro fertilization." So wait, I thought he was saying IVF as in like, "Oh, we would do IVF?" No, he didn't know what IVF was. She had to explain it to him. Anyway, yeah, she says, "In vitro fertilization, they implant your sperm in my egg. Not the old fashioned way, but our baby. Option if the surgery doesn't work." Then moving forward to June 17th, 2021, which was the day before Ryan was murdered. Karina messaged Houston, "Just be prepared for your wife to constantly be tearing something apart and redoing it." And Houston responded with, "Not worried about that one bit. You gotta see me in my underwear this morning and I haven't gotten to see you." To which she said, "Train rack." And he said, "Going to sleep with my hand on your ***** very soon." And believed me, you guys, it doesn't stop there. I mean, I wish it did 'cause it's disgusting. We have to keep going over it. But if you're distracted, lock in for a minute because this is evidence everyone definitely needs to be aware of. Okay, so on June 18th, 2021, at 3.31 AM, one hour before 911 was called, Karina and Houston's messages read as follows. Karina sends a red heart emoji. Two seconds later, Houston responds, "Seriously, more than ****ing life." Eight seconds later, she says, "Forever." Then 19 seconds after that, Houston replies, "More than anything." Okay, babe, phones going down. Send me something after I leave your house. To then wait for me to open it. Deal, eight more seconds later, Karina tells him, "Deal," followed by the kissing lips emoji. And Houston's response to this is crazy, especially the fact they had all of this over Snapchat. These **** idiots. Oh, my God. He says, "Remember those casings. F***ing remember those. No ifs, ands, or buts." And she responded with, "Absolutely, 100%. Then after 10 seconds, he tells her, "Okay, phones going down. I love you." And Karina says, "I love you too." And he responds, "So much." She once again says, "Forever." And he once again says, "Okay, babe, seriously putting the phone down. Have to get this **** done. I love you." Karina then says, "Go." And then there was an hour and nine minute lag before his final response, which came at 4.42 a.m. to which Houston said, "Yup, just woke up." Isn't that absolutely insane? Like, I don't think there is another way that you could possibly interpret all of that other than exactly what it is. And to investigators, and I'm sure to all of you, to anyone with a functioning brain, it sure as **** sounds like Houston was on his way over to murder Ryan. So naturally, finding all of these messages, meant it was time to pay Mr. Houston danker, another visit, and he agreed to meet with agents on April 29th, 2024, in a minority's parking lot of all places. And dude must have been shitting absolute bricks. I mean, his girlfriend was just arrested, and now they wanna talk to him. Not looking good for you, bud. But on the outside, he did seem to maintain his composure, very confident in himself, it seems. And interestingly, when he was confronted about the affair the second time, he didn't deny it. He was no longer the gay best friend. Now, I do have brief portions of the audio from this interview, thanks to the Stay Awake channel as well. So I wanna play that for you now. - Thanks. - Yeah. - For taking time out of your busy weekday. - Obviously, at this point, Korean has been arrested, you know, as things have moved along, there's still a few gaps in our knowledge. You become romantically attracted to her, that right, and things have progressed. Did you guys ever talk about a plan to relocate together or live together at some point in the future? - No. - Basically, ask you if there was something going on between you and Korean. - Pretty much. - And you just straight up said no. - Yeah, when he got ahold of me about that, I mean, that made me feel pretty low as, I mean, to call a spade a spade, I felt bad for kind of pissing in this Cheerio, okay? - So he says they never had a plan to live together, but I'm sure you can agree, those snap chats certainly suggest otherwise me, they were planning on trying to have a baby together. And in a really nice fuck you move to Houston, the agent ended up just slipping him a nice little piece of paper on the dashboard with pictures of their snap chats on it. And then I loved this. He actually lied to Houston and told him that Karina was in jail already and she was pointing the finger at him and what did Houston do? He finally admitted to knowing about the murder, but he said it was all her idea and that he had been manipulated the entire time. - Inna has a way of explaining this. And it's Houston who is the love crazed person who just hated Ryan and that will be the story because holding, and that's not true. No, it's not true. Tell me about that night. So, I mean, just to be honest, do you have Karina wanting me to go over there and do it? Let's start over and talk about these early morning hours, right? - I guess what, I'm gonna ask you guys right now, are you guys telling me that I'm the one that did it? - Who first put the idea forward to end his life Karina? What would be the next thing then that would happen if the plan was to, I guess, be together and live life together? Where it's, that would have never happened, I think, it was this 50/50, which is a, I would feel like I was forced in a lot of that stuff, okay. Ryan got shot with a 22 that I own. - Who shot? Karina. - Where were you at at home? - I think she received that when you're like, I don't want to do this, not very good. Call me a, put, you know, thought you were gonna take care of us, things like that. She's a pretty dominant person. It was so forced upon me with, and like I said, once again, should have just been a bigger person, said Karina, this is stupid, this dumb, what are we doing? - So in Houston's version of events, Karina was the one who pulled the trigger. He did say that he drove to her house that night to pick up his gun, which he said that she used, but he also said that he drove there in a four wheeler to stay under the radar. Oh, and also that he left his phone at home, which is why it wouldn't have. been detected in the area. But, of course, all of that is a load of shit. And investigators didn't think that he was a victim to Karina's game. They thought he was equally as responsible. - So my weekends in the summer, as a kid, were often filled with garage sale days. There was nothing I loved more than checking out a garage sale, getting a good deal on a nice toy, and my mom is really the queen of a good deal. And I grew up thinking that was just her thing, but turns out it's my thing, too. I actually found a Louis Vuitton bag. I feel quite fancy on what not, for a fraction of what it would cost anywhere else. I would never pay full price for something like that, but I was able to treat myself to that bag and know that it's better for my wallet and better for the planet. When it comes to luxury, I really prefer to buy pre-owned, and that's what makes what not so cool. It's the number one live shopping app in United States, where shopping happens in real time with real people, real conversations, and incredible deals. On what not, you're connecting with sellers and other shoppers. It's like hanging out with a group that gets you, and it's a really fun way to shop, and you almost never pay full price. You can shop name brands across makeup, perfume, clothes, handbags, jewelry, and so much more, all without that retail sticker shop. This is the best place to find great deals on products that you love I'm telling you. So download what not today and get $20 off your first purchase. Search what not, wh-a-t-n-o-t, in the app store, sign up, and start finding the best deals on products that you love with $20 off your first purchase. Terms apply. (soft music) They believed that Houston was inside the home that night when the murder took place, as was evident by the bloody shoe print they found outside the house. It turns out that he had a pair of van sneakers that had the same print as the one they found at the scene. So he ended up being arrested right there, and later being charged with first degree murder. Now as for the murder weapon, investigators were luckily able to find that too. In fact, they found out that Houston had actually given a co-worker, three of his firearms sometime in 2023, and he told this friend that he was moving in with a girlfriend who had kids, and he just didn't want guns in the house. Well, anyways, this co-worker named Bradley took the guns and stored them for several months and long story short, the weapons were recovered, and investigators believed they found the one that was used in Ryan's murder. So would these two dumbasses behind bars and all the components squared away, plenty of evidence everyone spent the next year preparing for trial, and their bonds were both set at $1 million. They both entered pleas of not guilty, and were expected to face separate trials in the summer of 2025. Now, Karina's trial came first, and what a doozy that was. Her trial began in early July 2025, and the prosecution just came out swinging. In opening statements, they portrayed Karina as a calculated and active participant in the plan murder of her husband alongside Houston Denker, who they said the evidence would show she was having an affair and plotting the murder with. They said the digital and physical evidence would outline the affair, the desire to kill Ryan, and disprove Karina's story and timeline of events. According to the evidence, they planned to argue that she resented her husband, told friends she wanted to shoot him in the face, and that her motive, besides being with Houston, of course, was the $500,000 life insurance policy that she stood to gain. And while they believed and argued that she was the one who pulled the trigger, the jury did not have to unanimously agree on that. They just had to agree that she shot him, or at least that she aided and abetted Houston in doing so. And as for the defense's opening statements, and what they ended up arguing throughout the trial, it was all about pointing the finger at Houston. He was the one who wanted Ryan dead. He was the one who shot him, and Karina was actually a victim of his as well. Sure, she was awarded the life insurance money, but after paying off some bills, they said the rest was put into a trust for her kids, and not something she used to upgrade her life. As for the assertion that she and Houston wanted to start a new life together, well, they argued that their relationship ended immediately after what happened because of how horrified and distraught Karina was by what he did. So right off the bat, the first deputy to arrive on the scene took the stand. He talked about meeting Aaron outside the house, walking into the living room, and ultimately finding Ryan's body. What was crucial from his testimony, though, was what he had to say about Karina, specifically her position on top of Ryan's body. If you remember from earlier, investigators believe that this was strategic. As for other testimony that day, Aaron took the stand, and a few things that he said stood out. When he walked everyone through the call that Karina made to him on the morning of the murder, he testified that she never once mentioned Ryan, never mentioned any injuries to him, and never mentioned 911 or needing an ambulance. And he also testified about some concerning observations regarding Ryan's body. - Did you make an attempt to touch Ryan or determine if he had a pulse? - Yes. - And explain that for us, what did you feel? - I remember grabbing his leg, and that at that point did not feel warm. It wasn't cold, but it didn't feel warm. And I checked for a pulse, and got no pulse. - Did you make any observations regarding any blood or tissue or anything else at the scene? - Just blood on the face, coming out of his nose and ears. - Any observations about the blood itself to appear wet or dry or no observation at all? - I remember either the nose or the ears that it seemed like it was drying or dry. - So this is the blood that's on his face. Did you see blood elsewhere in the room? - On the floor. - What observations did you make of that blood? - At that point it looked like it was darkening. It wasn't bright red. - What did that mean to you? - That it wasn't immediately fresh. - Now this piece of testimony actually brings up something really important to discuss, and that's the timeline. So in Carina's original statement, she stated that she woke up at around 3 a.m. She said that her body normally just woke up around that time, and she went to pee, you know? Pretty normal. Well, when she woke up at 3 a.m., she initially stated, as you may have heard earlier, that she heard the TV on and that she heard the sound of Ryan snoring. Then she claimed she fell back asleep until the crashing noise that she claimed to have heard that woke her up shortly before 4 a.m. But ladies and gentlemen, the digital evidence shows us that that is a lie. Tiffany Lord, a forensic examiner who conducted those searches of Carina and Houston's phones took the stand herself, and she blew their timeline wide open. As I mentioned earlier, Carina and Houston were snapshotting for a few minutes around 3 a.m., and these were the messages where Houston said, "Remember those casings, "fucking, remember those, no ifs, ands or buts." So let's do some math here. That means that she was not asleep shortly after 3 a.m. like she stated. And that's not the only thing that proves that she's lying more on it. It was also the Apple Health app. When that phone data was extracted, it was determined that Carina took 170 steps between 423 and 433 a.m. And this would have been before she called Aaron and take a listen to why that is so suspicious. - Yeah, it shows here on June 18th, 2021, at 423 in the morning movement started, and then it ended at 433. - Okay, so seven minutes prior to the call to Aaron Cooper movement started, you were able to determine both steps taken in distance, what were those steps and what was that distance? - Yeah, it shows the distance in meters as 120. If you translate that to feet, it was to 393 feet, and then 170 steps taken. - Okay, so starting prior to that phone call to Aaron Cooper, a distance of 120.5 meters was covered. - Yes. - What are we seeing here? - So that is actually a blueprint of the house. And so the average size of a school bus is 45 feet. So you can see that the width of the house, the perpendicular is actually smaller than it put two buses. Perpendicular, that red X is where I was advised where Ryan was shot at. - This is showing distance traveled. So as I said, the 170 steps, if you were to take the meters and turn it into feet, it actually turns into 393 feet, and so it's a little bigger than one football field. - Okay, so this image shows 100. - Excuse me, 100 yards, so a football field, 300 feet, and then an additional 30 plus yards, correct? - Yes. - Did you compare that then to the house itself and the size of the house? - Yes. - What were you able to determine? - They were taken like nine and a half houses basically. - Detective Lord also went over Houston's apple health data and not surprisingly, he had a lot of movement too. At 2.43 a.m., he took 75 steps. At 3.13 a.m., he took 244 steps. And at 3.23 a.m., he took another 62. Now, I've just got to say, I really appreciate her testimony and her approach to the entire thing. She seems incredibly smart, very good at her job, but I think it really did paint the clearest picture of the affair and Karina's desire to have her husband killed. She even read through more of their messages And you can. just hear the resentment she had towards Ryan and how much that was building and it's just heartbreaking. And just the way they were so blatant about it all and thought they were so slick, so smart when they're really just two of the stupidest people to walk planet Earth. And are we shocked to learn that they actually did try to delete those messages thinking they would just disappear into the abyss after that? Of course we're not. Most of it was recovered, not everything but most of it. And that included several Google searches as well. And just get ready for your brain to melt with these ones you guys. Oh my god. Now these actually come from Houston's phone, but since they were trying to prove that they conspired together, it made total sense in the context of Karina's trial. And I'm just going to rattle these off here and just you know the first ones that I read are from before the murder. How to kill someone with antifreeze. Best ways to kill somebody with no way for anybody to find out who did it. You have got to be lying to me that you idiots thought you could actually type that in and no one would ever see it. That is truly one of the stupidest things I have ever heard someone Google search. Are you fucking kidding me? Zero brain. Zero brain. How to save snaps without them knowing. I love how it's just them knowing how to SS screenshot on snap without them knowing 2021 sodium sulfate is it deadly. The black market. So then in the weeks after the murder, he Googled old open Snapchat beef found again after being seen in the state of Iowa. Our snap chats encrypted. Where do murderers go to present? Oh my god. Minimum security prisons in Iowa. High security prisons. How long does it take to go through data forensics? 11 worth prison. How to permanently delete snapchat data? Does your snapchat location turn off when you log out? Can messages accidentally be sent to somebody else on snapchat? Can the feds pull snap chats back up? Can data forensics retrieve old snapchat conversations from an iPhone? Can old open snap chats be found again after being seen in the state of Iowa? Does snapchat save every message and picture I send even if opened? What is received with a search warrant sent to snapchat? Can a state investigator read through old snapchat conversations? Snapchat saved messages. Can data forensics pull snap chats up? What is snapchat able to give the feds? What kind of conversations can data forensics pull back up? And there were more of pretty much just the same snapchat related ones that are stupid and I'll spare your ears because don't worry, we've got plenty of other searches to go through, okay? He also googled, "What's the best way to poison someone quickly? Is chloroform traceable? Sionide? Sodium cyanide? Where to find arsenic? What's the best gun to use to kill somebody? Really? How do people get caught for shooting? How to positively get away with murder? That's an interesting one. The best way to kill somebody with no evidence. How much does it pay to dig a grave? I have so many questions about that one but I don't think I want to know the answers. Like he wants to get paid or is he dumb enough that he is asking Google how much he'd have to pay someone to dig a grave for him? No fucking idea. Number one lawyers in Iowa. That was a smart one. Probably your only smart one. So was bro freaking the fuck out every day since they murdered Ryan? Sure seems like it from those searches. Wow. And what's interesting is Karina actually didn't have any searches at all, like literally any. Between February 13th, 2021 and June 1st, 2021, Detective Lord said that she made zero searches all the way from February to June, which was out of character for her usual Google search behavior. Like she didn't even look up a recipe for cookies. Nothing. What she did find on her phone, though, was a bunch of screenshots from a gun website taken in November of 2020 where she was looking up common types of handgun bullets. So yeah, digitally Karina wasn't looking so hot either. And this trial was very difficult for all of their loved ones to experience. I mean from an emotional standpoint, the jury really heard some very upsetting testimony from family and friends that truly pointed to Karina's level of calculation here. Her oldest son even took the stand after everything that he has been through. And it wasn't recorded because he's a minor of course, not that I would play it anyway. But he said that just a few days before his dad was murdered, his mom told him that he needed to start sleeping in his bed. Because as a reminder, he normally slept on the couch next to his dad's recliner. But now all of the sudden Karina had an issue with that. And it really twists me up inside and makes me so angry thinking about all of the guilt that he was experiencing in the early days. Well, I guess for probably quite some time before he found out what actually happened, thinking about how maybe he could have done something or saved his dad some how if he was in the room sleeping next to him when he was killed. And for her to have let him just suffer through that guilt, knowing that she was the one responsible is sick beyond words. I mean, she is truly someone who never deserved to be a mother. Now obviously the prosecution really drove home the fact that the reason she made him move to his bed was because she knew what was going to happen to him soon, what she was going to do. A bunch of their friends also testified about Karina and Ryan's relationship and how she would tell him she hated him. And two people specifically testified that she once said she would shoot him in the face and look what ended up happening now as it related to the financial part of the motive. The jury also heard testimony about her finances and from a life insurance agent about her policy. And like I said, she collected over 500,000 dollars and also her bank accounts had been overdrafted for quite a while. So overall, it was not looking good for Karina in the slightest who by the way testified in her own defense. Her attorneys decided to let her take the stand. And I think that's because they wanted to try and humanize her, but that did not go well. You know those pieces in your closet that you find yourself just reaching for over and over again sort of the capsule pieces of your wardrobe. You know, that sweater that somehow works with everything. 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Download the Quince app for app exclusive offers or go to quince.com. Get free shipping on your order in 365 day returns now available in Canada and the UK too. And when Quince asks you where you heard about them, let them know it was true crime with Kendall Ray. That's the best way to support the show. But they also did want the jury to hear her say that she was victimized by Houston. And to be clear at this point, there was absolutely no denying that the affair took place. So they didn't even try to argue that. But what they did try and argue though. And what Karina testified to as well was that the affair wasn't this big in-person romance. Take a listen. I want to talk about the relationship with Houston. How did you meet him? Technically by cutting his hair. Like others have said, it's a small town. I knew of him for years, but I started cutting his hair as how I met him. How do we go from cutting his hair to Snapchat buddies? Flirting a little bit when cutting his hair, talking about he was having a lot of problems with his girlfriend or ex-girlfriend, the mother of his child at the time he only had one. He confided in me a lot about that. How do we get to Snapchatting? Houston, what we've seen. Sometimes negative attention is still attention and I was being showered with attention by him being told I was beautiful and funny and I would post pictures of the meal I had made that night for supper and he'd praise it or the garden that I planted and he'd make a big deal out of why can't I find a woman like that and it became very flattering to me. Was your relationship with Houston, was it primarily online? Yes, 99% online. Yes, I cut his hair, but that ended at one point. And the online relationship continued. When did you stop cutting his hair? In February of 2021. Even when I was still cutting his hair, it's odd because when I would cut his hair, we would talk about the same things that I would talk about with any other customers, family, work, it wasn't lured, it wasn't flirtatious. That was when we snap-chatted at night that it was like we were shy and person, but it became other people when we were texting each other. Okay. According to Karina, they were only ever physical one time. Did it at one point, did it become physical? There was one physical encounter. Yes, it was the last time that I cut his hair. The last time I cut his hair before he killed Ryan. It would have been in February. I cut his hair and we had sex. Why did you stop cutting his hair? Because I had sex with him. I didn't want him around and I didn't want that chance of that happening ever again. It was an online fantasy, like going to a chat room or playing video games where you steal cars and shoot at cops. It was an online fantasy thing and when it became a physical and person thing I was disgusted and scared of losing my husband. She also explained how aggressive Houston had become over time and that he would act like he was her husband and that Ryan was somehow her boyfriend and that she was cheating on him with Ryan. And a lot of her time on the stand was just spent defending her own actions. Tell me about Google searches, about firearms research. Were you researching this hunter education website? I wasn't researching it. I was enrolled in an online hunter safety course. Were you aware that some of this was being done on a private browser? Not particularly. I don't really know how all of that works but it's very possible. And I took screenshots of several of the slides I guess you would say because at the end of each chapter there was a test. And I took those screenshots to kind of help me cheat on the test because I wasn't doing very well. Have you shot a rifle? I have. It's been 25 years ago but I have. You told the police that you'd never even shot a gun? Yes, that was not true. That was not true and the only thing I can say is in my head I was thinking of handguns at the time. I have not shot a handgun. I have shot two long arm rifles in my lifetime. Then when the police get there, why didn't you tell them? Houston shot my husband. I was so scared. I was scared. I was panicked. I instantly thought I was being set up in one of his plots that he laid out all the time through Snapchat. I panicked. And then did you continue to lie? Too long for us meant for years. I did. That was also being threatened by Houston for over a year and a half afterwards. The biggest hurdle that she had to overcome though were her messages to Houston about wanting her in-dead. Especially those Snapchat sets she sent an hour before he was killed. There's a message about a rogues in my accident that was on Snapchat. Did you want your husband dead? Why would you say that? I have a really sick sense of humor sometimes, inappropriate humor, and I was probably angry. There were times that we weren't getting along the greatest. Like people I've said, especially when I drink, I have a sharp tongue sometimes. You can say nasty things. We do have these Snapchats about shell casings. What's going on? Again, it's not the first time that that had been talked about. I didn't take him seriously. He had made a comment before about walking into the shop. When Ryan was there, I was gone with the kids at the swimming pool. And he had made a comment. He said, "If you get home and find your husband dead, make sure you pick up those shells for me." And I had asked him what in the world he don't like. LOL, what does that mean? And he said, "Well, according to CSI, that's how they always catch the killer." So I took it as a joke. So it had been referenced before. It was 3.30 in the morning. Like you said, and I said, there were several messages before that he was very aggressive towards me that night and upset and angry. When those messages came through, I was more or less. Snapchat, like most of you know, once you open a message and you exit out, the Snapchat is gone. It's not like a text that you can go back and reread what was there. I halfway read messages, didn't always read them thoroughly, didn't. I wasn't paying attention, plain and simple. And your belief, when you said, "Go," did you believe that you said more? I know I said more. I said, "Three messages in a row." What did they say? "Go to sleep." Three messages, like putting periods in between the words to emphasize, "Go to sleep." Did you ever take him seriously? No, I thought he was full of crap. He'd like to brag about how he knew powerful people and his dad knew dangerous people. He insinuated that he had been involved in some other crimes, but he didn't believe him. No, he's got quite a reputation around town with women and telling tall tales. What would your reaction be when he's making these threats? How did you handle it? Left it off. Use sarcasm. Sometimes replied inappropriately, like when he would say, "He said one time, "Don't use your husband's truck in the morning. There's going to be a bomb planted under it." And I replied, "Gee, thanks for the heads up." Do those messages mean that you or did you want your husband dead? No. Ryan was killed with your three children home. Would you ever orchestrate the murder of your husband with your three kids home? Never. Did you participate in the death of your husband? No. So there you have it. She never wanted her husband dead, and she never took Houston seriously when he made those threats, and she was, in her opinion, a victim of Houston's as well. And don't forget, a big point for the defense was that the affair ended immediately after the murder occurred, and that was because of what Houston did, and only what Houston did. When it was time for her cross-examination, though, the prosecution tore this down. They destroyed this innocent woman image that she spent the last hour trying to paint. They actually made her read her explicit messages to Houston out loud for the jury to hear. She was also faced with everything that she lied about, and she sat there having to admit what she withheld from the police for all those years. When the name Houston Denker comes up, you don't tell him what you told this jury this morning, do you? No. You don't tell him that Houston Denker has been sending you some messages that were very threatening that somehow disappeared. No. You don't tell him that Houston Denker wanted to harm your children? You also don't tell him that you wanted to have children with Houston Denker? No. You don't tell him that a year of the Ryan's Cooper's death, you are planning to have a child with Houston Denker? Because I was not. You don't tell him that you are planning to do IVF and that you are to explain to Houston Denker what IVF means? No. I did not tell him about those snapshots. You don't mention the story you've told today, correct? Correct. And I just got to say, the way that she can go from so emotional to so cold between her two testimonies is really chilling to me. I mean, it just creeps me out that people like this walk the earth. But yeah, I think you guys certainly get the point here and the jury must have to because it only took them about three hours of deliberation to come back with their verdict. On July 11th, 2025, Carina was found guilty of first-degree murder. And although this may seem like it would be a relief to his family, they expressed that it was honestly just sad. I mean, they felt like they lost another family member in all of this and of course, at the end of the day, it didn't bring Ryan back. And Ryan's friends felt the exact same way. They just felt empty after that verdict was read. And as for her family, despite having believed in her innocence, this trial really opened their eyes to the truth. Her brother Kurt was deeply disturbed by what he had heard. And I thought this was so heartbreaking, but one day after the trial, their mom turned to him and said, "Where did I go wrong?" And Kurt explained that he actually thought Carina really thought that she could get away with this, but luckily that was not the case. And luck, and more importantly, the truth really was on everyone's side when it came to these trials because on August 12th, 2025, the day his trial began, Houston changed his plea to police. guilty. Meaning that Ryan's loved ones wouldn't have to sit through the pain of everything again. And while I'm so thankful that he did that and it was definitely the right thing to do, I don't think it came from a place of realizing it was the right thing to do or wanting to spare everyone the pain or remorse or, you know, anything like that. I think he just realized that he didn't stand a chance with a jury, especially after he saw the way that Karina was found guilty. But at the end of the day, I am happy to tell you that both of them were given automatic sentences for life in prison without parole. And I'm just so thankful for that for, you know, Ryan's kid's sake for everyone who loved him and everyone who has suffered so much through all of this. And especially with how long it took for them to get justice. I hope the two of them sit in prison and think about what they did and what they stole from everyone that loves Ryan for the rest of their lives. And most importantly, what they stole from him. All of the moments that he'll never get to experience with his kids and his friends and all of the life experiences that he will never get to have because of two selfish morons who are just evil. They're just evil. And they are exactly where they belong. I mean, the details of this case are just so upsetting, such a horrific way to die. Honestly, I'm just sick of even saying their names. They're both such disgusting humans. But I did want to leave you guys with a somewhat happy note. I just wanted to let you know that Ryan's kids, I guess, are doing well all things considered, which I was very happy to hear. Aaron and his wife stepped up and took custody of them, which is fantastic. In addition to their three kids, they are also raising their two nephews and their niece. And then I'm assuming that Ryan's oldest son is with his mother, but yeah, Aaron built a bigger house for their bigger family now and they're raising their family on the farm where all of their kids can grow up and play together and be free. Of course, at the end of the day, the pain, the trauma, the destruction that all of them have experienced will never truly go away. But I'm grateful that they are at least being raised by people who love them and will constantly remind them of what an amazing father they had and how much Ryan loved them. But definitely let me know your thoughts on this one in the comment section if you're watching on YouTube or if you're listening on Spotify or Apple or wherever else. Um, come and let me know on my Instagram page, which is official TCKR. I would love to hear from you guys. And that is going to be it for me today. Oh, before I go, I did want to mention that our fall and Halloween merch is live. I'm actually wearing one of the pieces right now. This collection has been selling like crazy, which we really, really appreciate because 100% of the proceeds does go towards funding our grants through the Higher Hope Foundation. And you guys are directly supporting families when you purchase anything, not only getting something for yourself, but you are really helping people who need it. I will be back next week. You guys with another case. But until then, as always, stay safe out there. [Music]