The Skin Walker Ranch is a site of persistent and unexplained anomalies tied to UFO activity, wildlife behavior, and biological phenomena that defy known scientific laws. Visitors report dead animals—especially small mammals—that remain perfectly preserved for months without decay, with no signs of scavengers or internal breakdown. These observations, including a skunk preserved for three years and a bird with missing bones and decomposed tissue, suggest a phenomenon that may involve time suspension or non-terrestrial biology. Government involvement began in the 1990s with scientific researchers, including Bob Bigelow, and continues today, though with secrecy and limited public disclosure. The ranch exhibits a pattern of resistance to observation, with digital devices malfunctioning, phones being hacked, and audio anomalies like double echoes. Some events, such as a falcon vanishing and reappearing miles away, appear to involve teleportation or time distortion, supported by GPS and radio data. While scientific testing has yielded results like a 90% unknown wolf DNA profile, which raises questions about alien or prehistoric species, the data remains incomplete and often suppressed. The ranch also shows signs of environmental shifts, such as a growing number of animals and jaguar-like sightings, suggesting possible ecological or dimensional disruptions. Despite the lack of official acknowledgment, the phenomenon is deeply embedded in local lore and scientific inquiry, with researchers noting that the most profound anomalies—like halted decomposition or time-based effects—may be more significant than visible UFOs. The deeper mystery lies in the ranch’s self-aware behavior, which seems to adapt to observers, teaching them through disruption. This challenges conventional science and points to a complex, possibly conscious, natural system operating beyond known physics. While some aspects are shared publicly through media, much of the evidence remains classified or restricted due to national security concerns. The ongoing investigation highlights a critical tension between scientific measurement and the phenomenon’s apparent ability to manipulate observation itself.
You had to sign some NDAs about a lot of this information? - Yes. - Some of the things I can loosely talk about, like seeing a UFO on the ranch is commonplace. - You alluded to government involvement, limited government involvement, or at least interest still in the ranch. Have you witnessed any of that? They told me when I started, they said, "Hey, just be aware it's possible that you might have the government listening to your phone calls or checking your emails." So just be careful, you say, "Get our phones hacked while we're on the ranch." You'll just be sitting there and all of a sudden, something opens up your phone is like going through everything. - No way. - Oh yeah, that happens to everybody on the ranch. But I do also think that some of the big stuff is held back on a more governmental level. - You think there's like national security implications? - Yeah, absolutely. - Really? - So you're saying that the phenomenon is obviously aware on some conscious level. It behaves that way. - Of what your intention is, and it knows ahead of time. - On daylight cameras, a UFO shows up, there's a cow in the shade underneath and buckles and dies, UFO goes away. They brought me in, I don't know, a few weeks a month later, and that thing had contorted in what we call the dinosaur death post, normally a mammal, when they die, they go into the fetal position. We found a skunk and it looked like a taxidermy skunk. We documented it there for three years. - It was untouched, it didn't rot, it didn't disintegrate. - For three years? - Three years. - Is that, is that, that's impossible? That's impossible. From your own personal knowledge and your own personal speculation, what's in the mesa? - How would you like to win an all-inclusive trip to one of my live shows? - Well, that's exactly what I'm offering. 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Welcome, Ben Woodruff. So Ben, you've been part of the sort of skin walker legacy as far as the television show goes, but also behind the scenes doing a lot of the biological testing. - Yeah. - Namely experiments with birds as well and just looking at the land. I mean, we're gonna talk about so many different facets of this fascinating geographical area that's been enigmatic to say the least in that I think so many people are really invested in. Partially, I think mainly due to the television series, but also the books, the lore, the stories, the hitchhiker effect, the cattle mutilations, the tide to Bob Bigelow. The, you know, there's so much history here. This is a mecca or at least another sort of bermuda triangle in the UFO sphere. So I wanna thank you for coming all the way down from Utah today and welcome. - Absolutely. Thanks for having me and it's a pleasure to be out. - Great, I can't wait to get into some of this stuff. I've been biting my tongue. We went out for breakfast this morning and I was, you know, kind of like pulling my punches. I didn't wanna, you know, I didn't wanna get through all the things that I wanted to ask you, but for viewers at home that might be sort of introduced to this topic perhaps a little more recently, can you give us a general sort of gestalt on what is skin walker ranch? So I guess, oh, you would say it's an area of high strangeness but that's pretty nebulous term. So it has a history going back, thousands of years, the native people in the land there, the Native American tribes going way back, have a rich history of very anomalous things from portals opening up to, you know, skin walkers themselves. The term skin walker is actually a Navajo term, the Navajo tribe, the Dine tribe, and it is kind of come to evolve to be a broader thing, anything weird, anything strange, anything anomalous, say, oh, it's a skin walker, but that's not the origins of it, but the ranch itself has had since ancient times it's had, strange things, it's had prehistoric animals appearing, which doesn't, I'm just reporting what's been said, it's had, you know, UFOs and well documented, at least since the 1990s, but people even much earlier going back, all kinds of strange things, you know, I could say portals, open up. - Poltergeist activity. - Poltergeist, ghost mutilations. - Cattle mutilations and beings, people, seeing beings and hearing voices, speaking many different languages. - That's right. - So a wide range of things, and then the government got involved in the 90s and has really been involved ever since. They're not officially now, but they still are. So they were involved initially with nids, or the scientists that were there looking at it, namely, you had Bob Bigelow, you had Hal Putoff, you had a lot of these sort of heavy hitters in this area, looking at this place, buying the farm, first of all, or the property off of the family who had it there previously, who had all these anomalous things happened to them, and then out of interest, you know, Bob Bigelow, I think was funded for this, or partially funded. - Yeah, partially funded. - Yeah, partially funded, there was some Senator Harry Reid got some funding for it, and so it was researched by the government, government contracted, and then eventually they took over completely. The Sherman's were still living on the ranch at first, and eventually the government completely took over through the 90s and early 2000s, and there's a lot of things that, you know, people who were on those early teams, they allude to, but I think there's a lot that we, the current team, have not been told. So, but all the information back then, it was all analog, it was like our ability to capture data has exponentially grown since, and so what we're doing now, I think Farrak sees what was done back then. I don't know because we don't have all that data, but from the sound of it, you know, I mean, if you're just having VHS, that you're recording things with compared to now, you know, where we have, you know, everything from mass spectrometers to, you know, LiDAR that we can shoot through things and drones, I mean, you know, digital footage, it's incredible we're capturing now. Do you think that there is some merit to capturing it in an analog way, though, 'cause it seems like the phenomenon itself messes with things that are digital. I think it does, but I hate saying this, but I have to say it, the ranch operates as if it is self-aware, as if it has a consciousness. Maybe it does, even if it doesn't, it operates that way. Kind of like genetics, genes operate as though we say, "Oh, this is the genetic motivation." Well, genes as far as we know don't have a motivation, but they operate in a way that they do, so we phrase it, the ranch, whether it's actually self-aware or not, it operates as though it does to be. And what I see is that during the bigelow era, it was kind of given a little friction, and then it kind of died down, and then during this new era, it gave friction at first, and we gave friction back, and some rough things happened in the beginning, and then it was kind of like, okay, all right, fine, I'm gonna teach you. It's like the phenomenon is like, I'm gonna teach you, I'm gonna mess with your digital devices, but learn from that, and then do a better experiment. It's almost like it's a trickster spirit, like a trickster energy, but it's trying to teach you and move the ball forward. It's almost like, you idiots just keep coming back. All right, okay, I'm gonna teach you something. So to any skeptical person out there, this sounds like a lot of woo-woo stuff. This, initially, when you hear this stuff coming from someone like yourself, and you have a clear history in studying biology and paleontology and all this stuff, to hear someone like you of your caliber say, "Oh, but there's like a trickster energy," that does sound a little woo to people out there. What's an example that you can give that's like a concrete, like, oh, here's just one as many that'll help you understand what I'm trying to say. As far as some, the ranch seems to give you what you want. If you come in there with a lot of bravado, people get attacked, people collapse, people fall over, you know, people get their heart attacked, people get their mind attacked, but if you come in and just kind of have an attitude of like, I'd like to learn, then it seems the phenomenon will show you what your field of science wants. Now, I understand, you could say the opposite, you could say, "Well, that's your field of science." So, of course, you're gonna notice those kinds of things. I'm aware of that, but even factoring that in, it seems to show you that. - So it's like amplifying what's already in your mind. - Kind of thing? - Like, it's aware, and it will show you, it will bring you, like, for me, dead stuff. Anytime I'm gonna come on the ranch,
dead animals are going to give you so much information and you know we even had one time where the producer of the show and I walked out when I just showed up and boom there was two dead quail sitting right in front of us and we're both laugh we start laughing we're like okay Ben showed up here's dead quail both of them the beaks open up like this right both of them had the front the upper mandible bashed in but the lower mandible was still in place which if they ran into something those would both be broken they were dead they sat on the ground all week summer heat they were two feet away I've got footage of this two feet away from a fire ant hill the fire ants wouldn't touch it and they stayed floppy for for that whole week so we ended up freezing them it's always like well Ben's here here's dead animals that's what you always want here's some fresh dead animals for you you know there's something deeply ironic about spending all this time talking about surveillance and data leaks and 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number to go to Cape.co/area52 and use code area 52 to get 33% off your first six months you can also download the Cape app on Apple App Store Google Play and is now available on the Accrescent Store too thank you to Cape for sponsoring this video all right let's talk about dead animals since we're going here because this is pretty fascinating obviously there are plenty thousands thousands upon thousands I would probably even estimate tens of thousands of cases of like cattle mutilation across North America it's it's a problem for a lot of farmers in Canada as well and especially you know in these sort of local or there's sort of isolated areas there there seems to be a lot of this happening not strictly cattle it sometimes can you know go into horses or like other you know mammals but skin walker ranch is known primarily for the cattle mutilations yeah when we're talking about cattle mutilations to to anyone that's out there there's obviously some anomalous things that happen or that happened to the animal that cause you know sort of concern which is the unexplained boring of you know its genitals or the lack of blood or the lack of struggle even but then like you said just the sort of lack of rigor mortis or or or the the way that they decompose and the way that animals are sort of uninterested in a carcass which is obviously very interesting to animals normally yeah um what out of all of those symptoms what have you observed there have you seen all of these things first hand yes my my first time so I'll talk about the small stuff and then the cattle mutilations part yeah so my first day coming on the ranch we pull up and at the gate I look over and there's a dead rabbit sitting there and I thought okay and in those days I was nervous to take photos and document because it was I was very cautious about things and now I film everything so I snapped a few pictures and every day coming back it was still there and we checked it floppy no ants no gastrointestinal swelling you know no bloating no no scavengers bothered it no ants no flies nothing it didn't smell and I was there I don't know like three four five days that week of first week and then the last day I went it was gone and it was all sand and irritate no tracks nothing nothing and scavengers it was just gone uh that same first week we found a skunk and it looked like a taxidermy skunk it looked like it was happy we're just like me this dead skunk we documented it there for three years it was untouched it didn't rot it and disintegrate it smelled a little bit like a skunk but no rot stink and then finally for three years three years and so finally Eric Bard and I is that is that it's impossible that's impossible you have decomposers when you die you have internal bacteria that starts to you're like oh I'm not getting a food source anymore so it starts to eat your stomach lining off-gassing and that's where you get the bloating but you also have external decomposers that start to break you down none of that happened and so Eric Bard and I said well it's been three years let's film a little blurb on it so him and I just on his phone we filmed a thing of it and turned it over and examined it the next day we came out it was gone and in its place was a perfectly decomposed like arm of like probably like a prairie dog like a large large rodent not a skunk and a chunk of that skunk fur was wedged up on the side of the old ruins of the homestead two there almost like is like oh you think I can't decompose glam here's a decomposed hand and here's a little you know and nobody else you can't get on the ranch you can't just drive on we were the only ones there it's just Eric and I so did Eric in the middle of the night go and get rid of the skunk and put a prairie dog leg there and put wedges this thing up there so what we found is that small animals don't decompose rig and mortis doesn't set in they never bloat if they're in the water they will but if they're on land they don't they just stay floppy and this is all animals without exception all small animals without exception birds i've birds and mammals and one frog um we've had weird things with a fish too which that that's that's that's separate issue too but um but yeah so so small animals if you're like coyote sized or smaller if you die on the ranch you don't decompose we've had some things uh like we had a bird called an orio and they brought me this orio and it was either legs you know you got skin and scales on the legs right and when we did an acropsy open it up there was just gaps and I'll send you a picture of drawing I did and it was just like bone empty bone empty bone empty down the whole leg it was just just chunks missing that bird would not be alive if that was the case and there were just these gaps of marrow yeah just like no no tendon muscle or bone and then tendon muscle and bone no tendon muscle everything was gone but the legs and the skin yeah the skin and the scales on the outside were there and so we opened it up and it's like that's impossible and no decomposer would do that no domestic beetles wouldn't do that you know because tendon and bone you know it doesn't make sense so I that one was that one messed me up so another one we found on the ranch a starling and I think this was on the TV show and this starling was squishy and stay that way for like what's a starling it's a it's a little bird it's um it's in the minor family they're from Europe people brought him over okay um and you know they're about the size like a you know rob and bigger than the sparrow but it was squishy to the touch stay that way forever so I took it off the ranch once it was off the ranch it started to decompose and the skull looked like it had blown up from the inside and Eric pointed that out it's like there's looks like some sort of energetic thing that popped out well in the skull I was it started to smell at home never did on the ranch so is it because it's on the ranch it doesn't decompose well all these weird bubbles started to form it looked like a metallic bubble and they would it was almost like a yeah like a bubble would start and I got tweezers and I'm like oh I'm gonna grab this pop it pops no residue and I'm like oh that's strange and other one forms and they kept forming and finally I'm like every time this is popping nobody's gonna believe me so I snapped a few photos and I'll I'll show you some photos of that too but it's like I don't know what that stuff was but it didn't happen until this dead bird was taken off the ranch but before that even when it was fresh off the ranch squishy and floppy it's insane that's I mean that's definitely insane I want to I want to just interject with something that maybe I should have said at the beginning but there you know when you reached out to me you were kind of pretty happy that you were able to talk about some of these things because previously there had been you had to sign some NDAs about a lot of this information yes due to the nature of because they might be using it in future seasons or you know it's it's proprietary you know information that you were hired and you were but is there so now that you're released of this partially released of some of that information there is still information that you can't talk about absolutely is that information that you can't talk about related to just like breakthrough findings and science and or is it related to more like proprietary info or is it related to security it's more of security and things that we've witnessed the things that I've gotten permission to talk about there's a lot that I can't talk about in my fields that you can't cannot
Okay, and there's a lot that I that I cannot that are in other people's fields who've been on the ranch that we've witnessed And even just some of the things like some of the things I can loosely talk about like seeing a UFO on the ranch is commonplace I mean, I've got footage that one day and I did ask Brandon if I could talk about this one But we were filming at the end of the day and we had been in the river everybody was exhausted I mean it was it was like a million degrees all day Humid and we were just all dead it's the middle of the night and we all have to drive like half an hour to get back in the town and I look over I'm like you guys there's there's the UFO and I'm talking to the film crew Do you guys want to film this what do you what do you mean by you like it? It came over a big bright orb Not distant like big enough way bigger than a star or the space station or something bigger than that And it came over and to the west from from the west and it came over and it was kind of like S Hovering you know being in place moving. I don't like you guys you want to film that and they're like, no, I was just a I'm like Yeah, I mean the UFO and they're like, it's okay So I I grabbed a couple shots and grabbed a little footage of it It's like it's that commonplace on the ranch to have something come over and so usually they only documented and I mean It's always documented like there's cameras 24/7 up But as far as the boots on the ground if if it's not part of an experiment It might not get the attention it deserves. So you saying that there's like this whole catalog of anomalous UAP footage that they're not releasing It just hasn't been gone through hasn't been gone through. Yeah. Yeah, and so now they have like the skin walker Ranch and ciders where people can help you know can sign up and can help go through some of the footage real time Which has been kind of nice because people will find stuff and then they'll bring it up to some of us on the team and say What do you think about this? So because there's just so much going on you you alluded to government involvement Limited government involvement or at least interest still in the ranch. Have you have you witnessed any of that? They told me when I first started they said hey officially the government isn't officially involved But they are still interested to both behind the scenes and in front of the scenes and you know Travis Taylor is always on the UAP task force And it's like and he even reported some of the anomalies back to the government and broke an NDA because of this might be a national security issue So but they told me when I started they said hey Just be aware. It's possible that you know, you might have the government listening to your phone calls or check or checking your email So just be careful you say you know, follow your NDAs that you've signed So they were casual about it. It wasn't like a threat or warning They said you know and we've seen on the ranch. I mean the government will fly over the government has done grids We've seen with airplanes over the ranch you know helicopters helicopters coming in. Yeah, and and the black hoc helicopters coming in and then Even when you have congressman in Utah trying to follow up on it can't get direct answers It's like you should get a direct answer about that. Do you think Brandon is involved at that level? Like I mean obviously he you know he owns the place. He's got a lot of money Do you think someone like him would be regularly debriefing some faction of the government? He he tells him he is can he Brandon is a coolest guy on earth He is so he is such an awesome guy and he's sincere He is he's intelligent and he works as but off more than anybody I know he's actually passionate about real estate like legitimate. Yeah, he's a mogul in that field and he and he loves it It's not about money. He loves doing that and so this is his side thing that it's like I want answers and He really wants answers and so he has really done a lot of networking getting certain government officials together and like look Hey, we need to be paying attention to this. We need to be addressing this So he's brief people. I know he has and he's been instrumental in trying to move this Conversation forward which I have the maddest respect for I mean that was at the potential risk of his career You know or or or more. Yeah. Yeah You know Do you think though that like the involvement of the government is a? Net positive or a net negative because it depends, you know There are two sides to this some parts of the government seem like they can't wait to talk about it Mm-hmm, but then you hear about the CD underside that kind of covers everything up. Yeah Do you that's see a concern there? I had there might be I mean we get our phones hacked while we're on the ranch You'll just be sitting there in awesome something opens up your phone is like going through everything. No way Oh, yeah, that means to everybody on the ranch and some people it ruins their phones. I've had my phone hacked twice I've never had it, but is that the phenomenon or is that our government is that another government? I don't know we've had audio things happen where we'll just sit there in all sudden you hear like a double echo coming back Over all around the room and it's like it's like okay We'll clearly somebody's tapping in and recording maybe it's like the NSA kind of thing. I don't know And maybe it's the phenomenon doing it. I don't know that but I I I think the government I Don't know for sure. This is speculation. I I get the impression that you know The government did a lot of work in the 90s and now the Brandon's here and trying to do work and is Answering to the government and getting the government involved. I think the government's like well Hey, let's just sort of the sidelines. Let them do the work Sure. Yeah, just causing us nothing. Mm-hmm. Yeah, good point. Okay. Let's get back to some of the stuff you are allowed to talk about Okay And some of these more bizarre cases involving mammals. So we've gone through the foul. We've gone through the rabbit What's what's next on this chain? So cattle? The cattle are so cattle mutilations. Well before we get to cattle like we're working our way up. All right. There was a wolf. Yeah Yeah, so so that Well, there this involves a cow too. Okay, so so on Daylight cameras a UFO on on what we call the path of the skin walker this north a south-running line where all these anomalous things Always happen along this fence line UFO shows up. There's a cow in the shader underneath and Buckles and dies. UFO goes away. This season one of the TV show was like why aren't we talking about this all the time? They brought me in I don't know a few weeks a month later and that thing had contorted in what we call the dinosaur death post Normally a mammal when they die they go into the fetal position. You know, they the tendons dry out this way. This thing went Spiral all crazy So they brought me out and I found that something had bit with its tooth through one of the ribs And I took that rib and measured it and it matched up to either a dire wolf or a jaguar I checked a whole bunch of teeth now it doesn't mean that's what it is But I just said okay, it doesn't match a regular wolf doesn't match coyote doesn't match bigger than a regular wolf bigger than regular wolf and I took a rib and Went and tested through and and took the next rib over and tested like bite force and even with a black bar tooth and even that it shattered So whatever it was had a lot of power because normally Carnivores if they're gonna bite a rib they use their molars and they bite off a side to get the marrow and they'll chomp chomp chomp They don't use the front canines. They that's gonna break them So it bits clean through poked it right through made a concoidial fracture and So from that we had this thought. Oh, you know Probably not a dire wolf, but okay, but then People even from the Sherman era and the 90s claimed that they had seen these big giant wolves and that they had attacked things and You know had attacked the dogs on the ranch and some of the original sort of depiction of a skin walker itself was like this half-man half wolf type like shapes You have to kind of think yeah, these big giant wolves and on the ranch the same thing they were telling me Like in the 90s there was more of there was a couple stories of kind of like dinosaur like things like Velociraptor type things that people said, but there was a lot more of mammals and they said oh, yeah There's like a there's a dino beaver. They said they saw. Oh, oh, oh, and they're laughing about I'm like Well, what do you mean like a beaver like you know like 300 pounds and I said well We had those here during the ice age 10,000 years ago and I had brought out a skull and showed them I'm like here it is it's castoroidies. This is giant like wait. That was actually real. It's like yes So the question it so a lot of these things that people are seeing Seemed to be ice age animals, which is the time right before us. We're still coming out of the ice age So it's like okay. Well, did you see you know? Is there a portal opening up that's letting these things through so with the wolf They were going along the river doing enough totally different experiment and They found this It's painful to watch they found this this thing and it it had rotted properly even though it was a wolf the old wolf thing a Canine for a canine had massive things oversize things and they said We had to get this for Ben, but it stinks so bad. Let's just hack off the jaw and bring it to Ben So they showed it to me and I'm like oh my gosh I'm like go get the rest of it And they went to get the rest of it most of it the skull and washdown river They got me the rest of the skeleton that they could get but the jaw I'm like the number of teeth It has and the size and shape in the robustness matches a dire wolf That doesn't mean that's what it is, but that's yeah, we have a big wolf on our hands big wolf on our hands that shouldn't be here And did that match up to the bite marks? It did it did it was the same size same shape And so we like well, we can do a DNA test so we sent a DNA sample with
to send the tooth to colossal bioscience, just the leading genetic lab in the world right now. They're the ones bringing back to Darwin, and they're working on bringing back mammoths and stuff. - Sure. - And so they have like every canine in the world canine. - When was this? - Three years ago, maybe four animals. - Okay, you weren't responsible for them bringing back to Darwin. - Not that I know of. - Did you gave them the DNA? - Yeah, they say, they have said they have some other sources that it came from. So, but, you know, who knows, right? So, but when it came back, the results came back. And this was, it was funny 'cause we were filming our response to it, and we had the whole team on, on, it was like a big old call, and Brandon was on, and all of us were yelling and fighting and swearing not at each other, but at science. We were angry about science about this, and like the producers were like, we should have just used this instead 'cause this was like the most entertaining TV we were seeing, 'cause we were so mad about, so the results came back. And basically, 90%, 89%, basically 90% of it is a non-existent wolf species. So, the remaining 10% is Eurasian gray wolf and Greenland gray wolf. Those do not live in Utah. Those are not in the United States. That alone should be a story, right? What's a Greenland, they're separate. - Yeah, that alone is anomalous. - So, why are they there? But Colossal said, and I think they're trying to save their professionalism, they said, well, from this weekend, you know, confidently declare this is being a gray wolf. I'm like 10% of it is a gray wolf. What about the other 90%? 90% is the bulk of it. If your dog was 10% Chihuahua and the rest of it was wolf, you would say this is a wolf, right? You wouldn't say, this is a Chihuahua, you know? It's like 90% of this is a new wolf. And they put it on their list and they just put it down as mystery. They didn't want it to clear it. They didn't want to call it a dire wolf. They didn't want to call it anything else. And they even, they have like every cane, they even have papo and singing dogs genetically sequenced. - And then fast forward a few years later, they're making a dire wolf. - Then they're making a dire wolf, yeah. It's a little suspicious. - It's suspicious, they say it's from some other sources, but I don't know because I don't know that in the things. - That's, but I mean, that's a massive coincidence. - Yeah, it's at least noteworthy. If nothing else, it's noteworthy. - Definitely noteworthy. - And again, the fact if you're saying, this is just a gray wolf, but only 10% of the DNA is a gray wolf. And it's gray wolves that shouldn't be in Utah. You know, so what is this 90%? What is this other wolf? - Yeah, I mean, isn't that even more exciting than it being a dire wolf? - Especially for them to go, oh no, it's not a dire wolf. And then they immediately make a dire wolf. - This is vicious. - I mean, to me would raise a few flags for sure. Okay, all right, well that's, I mean, incredibly anomalous and seems substantial and important. And yet, you know, still not sufficient to say, oh, this is, you know, like we don't have, we don't have any, any provenance of this, like where, where do they come from? Is this a one off somehow that survived? Is it a portal, like you said? Is it, you know, there's a lot of these speculative questions that occur around these anomalies that seem to go unanswered. - Yeah. - All right, moving forward, we now go to cattle. I guess 'cause we, I mean, this is kind of related, it bit into one of these. Now the cattle that it bit into, the cow that it bit into. - That was the one that got killed by the UFO. - Yeah, on camera. And in, this footage exists, have I seen this? - Okay, I've probably seen this thing. - Our season one. And it's so far back, there's only other things happened. People are like, oh yeah. Wait, yeah, this isn't going to happen. Oh, there's a, see a UFO, hover over a cow and kill it. It's like, that's big. And, but we've had other cattle too. Like the, the, if you ever watch a show, there's this calf. And earlier in the day, it was fine. Thomas Winterton sought running around. It was fine with all the other calves. And then all of a sudden, all the cattle just burr, including its mother, all back away on either side. And it's running around in circles, going crazy. And normally if that happens, a mother is gonna come along and like, hey, I'm here for you. What's going on? And even the mother backed away. And it's eyes had whited over. It, it's brain had been like scrambled. They got it off the ranch. It's permanently blind now. But it's okay. It's healthy. It's recovered. But they said it looked like something energetically had affected its brain, you know, like radiation to the brain or something. Not mad cow disease or anything. Nope, they tested. They tested for everything they could. And they said it's healthy once they got it off the ranch. And it was healthy earlier in the day. And all of a sudden, just running around in circles. So this other cow that had come up dead because of, you know, after the UFO had appeared and sort of fell over and it was all contorted. Did it exhibit the same symptoms as some of the other smaller mammals in terms of like decomposing? No, it's with one exception. It seems like big animals do decompose. Like if we find a dead elk or a dead cow on the ranch, normally there's cattle that are mutilated on the ranch, but then you have the occasional cow that just seems to die. They do normally seem to decompose normally. The one that the UFO seemed to have killed. That one, it did decompose normally, except for there were no domestic beetles. So once you get to a certain level decomposition, yeah, small insects will take control. You put a chicken bone in your yard and within a week you're gonna have domestic beetles that show up out of nowhere. There were no domestic beetles and there was some species of green, shiny, decomposing beetle that I had not until I researched it known that species existed in Utah, but no domestic and there's domestic on the ranch. Yeah, but they would just avoid it. Yeah, as well as I guess any other small critter. Yeah, yeah, so it seems like it did break down like the gastrointestinal bacteria did break that thing down, but the spine just, the tendon just contorted it in these weird, and again, in paleontology and paleobiology called a dinosaur death pose, but the cow did that perfectly just like, "Ah, it's wild, look, and you see it." I'll send you pictures. When you see a dinosaur death pose, is that because of the fossils that we see of these like, yeah, yeah, so the tendons on dinosaurs and birds, they can, when the tendons start to dry on birds and dinosaurs, they contort this way. Mammals contort in the fetal position. I see. And this cow contorted like a dinosaur. Like a bird. Yeah, like a bird. Strange. What do you think, what do you speculate? A human body would look like if it had a decompose and skin walker, and if perhaps one already has, but obviously there's, you know, ancient burial grounds around there, but what would your suspicion be? I don't know, but my question is, do these things, do these things because they're on the rancher because they're from the ranch? I see. So what I want to do a test of is like, I don't bring out like a fryer chicken and put it out there and see how does that decompose? And then bring one from there and have it die somewhere else. Yeah. Has that not been done? Have you guys not imported any dead bodies into the ranch? No, I feel like that's like an oversight. I feel like you guys should be. It's more just busy, just normally. That's on the list of things to do. That's been on list for three years. That is something we want to do, some onsite. Same thing with some mushroom experiments. We're going to do growing mycelium on there and different things and microbes, you know, take microbes on the ranch, grow them off, take off the ranch, grow them on. But it's just so busy, you know, and when they're doing the filming, you know, we're usually focused on big end things. And so it's just finding time to fit the small stuff in. I suppose, yeah, that's exciting. And there's a lot of things to do in a lot of hands in the pot as well, you know, from, again, from people studying the science, the physics, the archaeology, the landscape, I mean, there's lots to, there's lots to look at. In terms of animals, there are some other anomalous stories, one that you sort of told me over breakfast about a falcon. Could you ask, tell me about that. You know, I always find it funny when people get worried about secret government files while simultaneously they post their entire lives online for free. And meanwhile, there are companies out there that know your home address, where you live, your phone number, your relatives, and even past addresses and relationships and those companies and other data brokers. Their whole business is collecting your personal information and selling it quietly and constantly, not the cool kind of mysterious hacker and basement, but more like spreadsheets full of your life. Getting passed around like trading cards. That's why I use incogni. So incogni contacts data brokers on your behalf and requests that your personal information be removed from their databases. So instead of you trying to hunt these companies down like some type of digital bounty hunter, incogni handles that request and keeps following up. Which is great, because I already spent enough time going down rabbit holes online. I don't need a side quest trying to remove my phone number from 47 websites. If you want to take back some control over your data, go to Incogniz.
And use code area 52 to save 60% on an annual plan, because your privacy should not be to classified. Yeah, so we wanted to bring some bio indicator species, and we're very cautious about this, and some people immediately attack and say, "How dare you bring animals onto the ranch?" And that's dangerous. It's like, "Well, humans are animals, and we're on the ranch, and there's wild animals on the ranch too, so in one sense, it's sixes, we're all at risk, right? Well, we're very cautious about it, so first I brought on owls, I brought great hornowl and some barn owls, and owls have three-dimensional hearing. Their ears, ones pointed up, ones pointed down. These things aren't the ears. The ears are openings under the feathers, and they have three-dimensional hearing. We'd bring them on the ranch, and they'd bob, and they're just like, they're focusing in on things that were not there. When we're out in the helicopter field, and the east field, they would just like, and we just documented them, seeing things, so I'm going to bring an owl out in this year. Then we said, "Well, let's try flying some falcons." So we brought out a couple of parroted falcons, and they each had on a radio transmitter and a three-dimensional GPS transmitter, so two different, totally different ways of measuring things. So we first went, and we're like, "Let's fly through the triangle." So Eric and I went up on the hill, and there's the triangles, there's a anomalous zone on the ranch, where crazy things happen. So I had my friend down below calling the falconin, and while Eric and I were on the hill, the 3D GPS says, "We're bouncing up in the air and jumping all over the place," and we're just standing there, and so it's already winging out. When the bird flew through the triangle, as it went through the triangle, the radio transmitter flared up, both times, and then once the bird was on the ground, my buddy was picking it up. It said that he was like spock and fast motion, and he was just sitting there. So we did that twice, and said, "Okay, that's kind of weird. Let's go to the east field." So we went to the east field, we start flying the falcon, it's flying up, it's doing good. We're like, "Okay, this is interesting. Let's call it back down." It comes back down, and we have a lure, it's like a fake bird swing around. You put it on the ground, the bird lands, and you go pick them up. My buddy does that, and right as it gets by the ground, it freaks out, and it kind of like panics every time and goes back up a bit and goes to come back down there. Something on the ground was repelling it. It was something repulsed it from going down, so it freaked out. It started going up, going up, going up, and it got to about 800 feet, and the GPS blip start missing. It's like beep, beep, beep, beep, and keeps going up, keeps going up. We're filming the TV crew is filming, and all of a sudden, the bird disappears. We're like, "Well, my buddy's like, my falcon, go." And then on the GPS, it reappears over the triangle, just about a mile away, and so we go running over there. How long of a time is we? Immediately. Immediately. Impossible. And now the, and when it disappeared, no GPS, no radio signal. The second it reappears, the radio transmitter is working 100% correctly. We can see the bird. Radio transmitter is working. The GPS is now mirroring the bird's motions, but it's in the wrong place, and when we got the bird back and pulled up the data, it says the bird went through the mesa, which is impossible. And it's important to note, if you follow this stuff, if you watch the TV show, where the bird went in the mesa, we have at night a white orb that goes into the mesa at that same spot. And there's another season where Brandon's flying in the helicopter, its sunset, still daylight, and a white orb comes out of the mesa below him. That is the same place where the falcon went in and where the falcon reappeared. So you got to piece those things together, maybe they're related, maybe they're not the falcon 100% fine. It was kind of like, oh, little alarmed, but it was fine, healthy. Birds alive and happy today, still being flown. That's incredible, but they didn't put it on the show just because they sometimes you'll put it later on in the season or you'll put it in the next season and like, oh, I was this season. But there were some people in those shots that aren't on the show anymore. These are like, oh, well, now we can't do this, and I'm like, this is really important. Yeah. Should still be released. You don't have access to that footage. I have access to the GPS, to the GPS data, which I have, I bet I can get permission to share that, but I haven't been given permission. But I have, I got Brandon gave me permission to share this story because I'm like, this needs to be out there. If it's never going to be on the show, the world needs to know that. Teleporting Bird is quite substantial, especially if you got it on camera disappearing and then reappearing elsewhere, you know, as a magician, I would, you know, obviously, oh, it's just two identical birds. Yeah. You know, it's the old twin trick, the old prestige illusion. Well, and we had, we also had, when those of us, because I was filming with my camp, Eric Bard was holding my phone and filming, and a lot of us were hand filming. And I know, I don't remember who else's, but I know for sure, my camera while it was filming, just shut off and battery 100% dead. And I know a couple other people were having issues while they were filming it right before the bird disappeared. So yeah, it seems to be par for the course there as well. It's just like phones scrambled, like you said, are uncharging or just shutting off or not working. Yeah. That's, yeah, very, very strange. What are some of the other things that you were not allowed to talk about previously? I mean, one of the, one of the ones is there is, there seems to be a jaguar on the ranch. And we filmed it also, which this brings up a lot of different points. So jaguars were, they ranged all the way to Canada during the ice age. People think of a jaguar as being tropical or desert, but they used to range all the way up north and supposedly regular jaguars and the ice age jaguar, which both lived at the same time, now only of the ones supposedly, they shouldn't really be any further north than like Arizona, barely, right? But we started seeing on the ranch, Utah is in a 25 year drought. It's just pray populations, animal populations are rock bottom. And all of the sudden on the ranch, all the populations started to explode. Fezans, quail, magpies, ground squirrels, prairie dogs, jackrabbits, contails, turkeys just started to explode, which suggests that a carnivore that eats them like a coyote is being kicked out. And we started to find these giant cat prints, which we just assumed, oh, it's a big cougar, you know, something like that. But then we started to also have scat samples that we took. And they had coyote guard hairs in them and raccoons. So something is killing and eating coyotes and killing and eating raccoons. Now wolves don't eat coyotes, they kill them. It's kind of like you wouldn't need a chimpanzee. That would seem weird. We're too closely related, it's kind of like, it's eating a cousin, right? Wolves kill coyotes, but they don't eat them. Whatever this is doing, it's killing and eating coyotes and killing and eating raccoons and hunting from the water, it's going along the little river there, which jaguar does too. And then we had the Caleb on this head of security there. He, one of his friends just off the ranch filmed and I've got this footage of black jaguar and it's shiny, it's reflective and I've gone to the site and checked the size and shape of all the bush there and everything. It's like, it's a daytime black jaguar just off the ranch and it's like, okay, is this it? Is this the big cat? Had people have said, well, if that's the case, okay, is this just a jaguar that's moved up north really far north? Or is this a portal opening up from the past? Is it a modern jaguar? Is it a prehistoric jaguar? Don't know, but that should be far bigger news than I know why, but that is not catching people or not talking about that and it's like, even if we have jaguars. Yeah. Yeah, unfortunately, unfortunately, you know, you could take a Bengal tiger and just drop it in central London or, you know what I mean? And people would be like, wow, it's just somebody's pet, you know, it wouldn't, the significance of it wouldn't resonate with most people I think. And I think that's part of the issue with a lot of the scientific approach to the phenomenon itself because in a vacuum individually, whether it's through geology, paleontology, ancient architecture, physics, like all of these individual platforms will showcase highly anomalous and seemingly groundbreaking truths. But to the general lay audience, it'll just seem like semantics or like, oh, this is just their jargon and it's not really relatable or translatable to the general populace, which is why, you know, I think they want to see a flying saucer, they want to see a little green man or whatever. But yeah, I may always tell people I'm like, hey, if a UFO comes over and lands and a little alien gets out and says, hi, that's earth shattering, but it's not more profound than
and if you have decomposition halted, almost like the animal is suspended in time. It's like if you have no internal gastrointestinal bacteria doing anything, no external bacteria doing anything, Rick Amortus not setting in, no scavengers bothering it, that is breaking the known laws of nature and a physics. A UFO coming and saying hi is more amazing, but it's not more profound. You're not breaking anything, that's just-- - Whoa, right. - But yet, I would rather see that, but this over here is actually far stranger. - More significant. - Yeah, I mean, we don't see it that way, but that's how it actually is. - So it's interesting too to think about this, just because the decomposition, like you said right there, something stuck with me that it's paused, almost like it's suspended in time. It does that not also affect the living. We don't know, we have seen issues with time happen. That has been documented on the ranch and even on the show, small differentiations in time that definitely have happened. There's kind of like a bubble over the ranch. They call it the cone and then the dome and now they call it the bubble. So there's a region, it's not quite a mile wide and it doesn't stay. It kind of moves a little, you know, give or take 20 feet on either side, but what's really weird about this is, for example, like little things like ants, who cares about ants, but yeah, these are bio-indicator species. Outside of the bubble, ant hills normal. It's high piled up silica, get rid of all of the organics, get rid of the dust, it's only silica. So it's a big old solar panel, warm up the colony at sunrise. Inside, they make this, I'll send you pictures inside, it's this stupid thing, it's got grass all around it and it's not even an ant colony. It doesn't look like an ant colony at all and it would not allow them to warm up. And on the border, the ants are going crazy. They attack you. If you are, we put a posts all around the border of this bubble and we were just there and these ants started attacking us and we filmed them, they're just running around in circles like in this big of an area, they're just like, "Nah, nah, nah, nah, nah, nah, nah, nah, nah, nah, nah, nah." It's like they're going crazy. They're not harvesting, they're not defending or attacking, they're just going around in circles like their brains are being fried. And so we're like, "Oh, let's get away from this area because if this is happening to them, what's happening to us being right here?" - Absolutely. That was my next question. It's like, isn't that what you guys are doing too? Going around in circles, trying to measure this stuff. It is interesting when you're like, whatever it is, your measuring seems to be changing. There's always that sort of philosophical question or even deeply scientific question of, can anything truly, is anything truly measurable? Because if it knows it's being observed, if it's conscious on some level then what you're getting is, it's a skew, it's not perfect. So do you think that there's any merit to measuring anything at all there? Because it feels like it's just always appealing to, you gotta have something. You gotta have some sort of language and math and measurements are kind of the language of science. What we've seen is that all the religious folk are using scientific terms and all the scientists using religious terms because none of us have a vocabulary to describe the stuff. Like if we say, "Hey, a portal." You're gonna picture Rick and Morty, right? "Romal portal will be tough." But we're just, that's a term that we all know and that's actually a clunky term. What is this? Some of these portals that happen on the triangle, they seem to not just be point A to point B. And we're measuring them with these different instruments. It's like, is it coming through time? Is it coming through space? What is this? We don't know. So portal is a clunky term. It's a good term because you get the general idea, but we don't know what it is. But we gotta have something. And so I agree, the phenomenon is always one step ahead of us. And sometimes it's tricksterish and occasionally mean and occasionally even attacks people, but it also will kind of lead you along like, "Hey, look over here, I'm gonna teach you a little more." Oh, good job, little monkey. You learn how to teach you a little more. But you have to have something. And so it may be, okay, like I said, okay, small animals don't decompose, big animals do decompose. If you're in the water, you do seem to decompose. That's, those are measurable. That's, I've put those ground rules on. They might not apply at all. Maybe it's just random, maybe that's just what I found in certain instances and maybe it doesn't apply elsewhere. But I'm just trying to make a framework. That's what we're trying to do. It's like that's the toughest thing to do there. Because even creating a framework based on what we already know doesn't seem to be interesting. Yeah, because we grew up with certain rules, rules of nature, rules of physics, and they don't seem to apply there. So what are the rules then? You don't know. And how do you take a measure? And if you say, okay, this is, this is 10 inches long. Well, if an inch is an actually an inch and sometimes an inch is three inches, it's like, what are you talking about? It doesn't make sense. So you, that's what it's like. So, from your own personal knowledge and your own personal speculation, what's in the mesa? Is that something you can't talk about? I can't talk much about it. I can talk some about what's on the show. Well, I will say this. I think I'm okay to say this. If you watch this, if you go on Google, earth and Google maps and look over the years, and if you watch the show, so I'm just sharing what you should be able to see publicly, the mesa is that area is sinking in on itself and has been steadily. If when you look at it like first season, it's almost that section is pretty normal and where the thing is in the mesa seems to be moving in and noticeably. So watch from season one until now, and you'll be like, oh gee. And that's been discussed. I don't think it's been discussed on the show, but all of us are like, what's going on here? It seems to be moving in that area. Because the mesa definitely seems to be like the crux of a lot of this activity. And obviously also a giant accelerator for the phenomenon, but also for ratings. Let's be honest, the mystery stays alive, people tune in every week, they want to see what happens, what's in the mesa, what percentage of that hype is related to the show wanting to have another season versus man, there's genuinely something here that we're really interested in, but we don't have the capacity to get in there. It's 100% legitimate. I think people default to what they picture in the head. Like I said, you know, if you say portal, you picture Rick and Morty, and you get to visual, you get right, and I've seen, I'll tell you later on, I'll tell you a story where I saw a portal, and we witnessed it. Same thing, if you say, there's something in the mesa, what do you probably picture, a UFO? Pride picture, some saucer in there, and we just got to get to it. Well, whatever's going on there is more abstract. We found material that can deconstruct under radiation and then rebuilds itself. That's impossible. We found green leaves dating back to the Eocene, which is impossible, and then you take them out and they dry out. It's like, okay, that's what are you doing? Hundreds of feet down in a mesa. They found ceramics with atomic layering. You know, amazing material. I don't, I'm not privy to a lot of that. I know a lot of that is coming out soon. Some of the materials they found in the mesa, but they also found like, I think a penny deep in the mesa. What's that? Were people down there in the past? I think it was like 1920s or 1930s, 40s, something like that, penny they found in there, deep in the mesa. How can that be there? Who put it there? Was it there? Was the mesa, did it used to be open? Or is there absolutely no time? Or is that the phenomenon showing us something? There's some type of like, by the sound of this, it sounds like there might be some type of mine or something down there. Like, I mean, if it's collapsing in on itself, that would make sense. Penny would make sense. Yeah. So whatever's going on there, it, I think it's more abstract. I think we want the visual of there is an object in the mesa. We got to get to it. Whatever is happening there and the things coming out of it, I think it's more abstract than that. I mean, it could just be simply, yeah, UFOs there. You know, some craft, crash, it could be. Absolutely. But I think we default to that because we're drawn to the unknown, but we don't want the, we don't want a nebulous answer. We want, here's the unknown and here's the known. It's a craft. Because it's just like, you know, as an outsider looking in, you know, we're familiar with, you know, there's a show on TV called, it's a, what was it? Not Skull Island, but. Oh, okay, one. Oh, okay. There you go. It's in Canada as well. Yes. But the secret of Oak Island, it feels like they keep leading you on every season. You're just like, we're not, we're gonna get it. We're gonna get it. And like the more I watch Skinwalk and the more I get this feeling now that I'm like, can't we just like get in there? Can't we just, you know, we have, it seems like we have the financial resources to get this done. But then, you know, the machinery starts breaking down or like the technology starts going, hey, why are, it always feels like a convenient sort of thing that happens that protects this area and convenient in the sense that
like this is also the area that people wanna see on TV. So you understand my slight frustration and I'm still entertained by it thoroughly, but there is this feeling and I think a lot of people also feel that to a certain extent. What part of that for you is completely true that yeah, there is that factor here where we just wanna film a TV show and we have to be careful. Or no, there's just no way of getting in there. What is that? So among the people who are on the show and among the different scientists to be one of the team, we get frustrated because first of all, the amount of shows they put on, you can't show all that happens. A lot of times the editors-- - 'Cause there's too much. - There's too much. And a lot of times the editors will pick and choose and they'll say, so it's not the team. It's the editors will say, well, hey, we think this over here makes for compelling TV and it's like, but this thing that doesn't seem like again, a lack of decomposition, time being frozen. Desert trumpet plants growing in whack-a-doodle ways in certain areas, some of these things that happen. We've, okay, I've only alluded, 'cause they might use this on point. We caught a flying mammal on camera that doesn't exist. And I'll just say that much. It's like, I did ask Brandon to be able to say that much, but they might use it. But it's like, that's huge. Why aren't we saying that? Well, because some of these things are more compelling and they're gonna draw people in more. And it's like, we're flying mammal, mammal. The powered flight, no, no, no, not a bat, not a flying squirrel. - Yeah, the flying mammal. - I'm running out of options here, doesn't exist. Long face, long, weird, curled in whiskers, almost like a bentarong. If you ever see those, curled in whiskers, long tail, not a web tail. And we've, yeah, so I probably shouldn't say more than that, but we've got it documented. So keep after us. If they don't, if they don't let us put that in the show, then let's, then I'll say, hey, Brandon, can we please get this information out there? Because if, you know, but it seems like scientific discoveries then taking a back seat to, on the show, but not on the actual investigation. - No, but okay. So you guys are investigating your round. You're in a really formal and professional capacity. You're just not releasing that information. And some of it, I mean, there's, some of it's just barely authorized. 'Cause the hole you into basin where skin walker ranch is almost like a funnel and like the most happens on the ranch, but that hole basin is weird. People are seeing UFOs all the time. People are seeing weird shape shifting things, but it seems to the epicenter is the ranch. And I mean, Caleb and Nathan had me come out, you know, a few weeks ago to check out this cow that died and wasn't decomposing. And we, no bloating, and we were documenting. It was just barely off the ranch. And it was healthy and just died. And they're like, was this and nothing. No scavengers were touches. So we put game cameras up on it. And nothing was bothering it. We had a raven come up and like, and a coyote came up to and ran off. Don't know what that means, but I mean, these kind of things aren't gonna end up in the show. That one was just barely off the -- - Sure. - So there's so much year round that's happening there. And the skin walker rancher insiders, that helps. You know, where we can year round how people keep an eye on the camera. - It's just true, yeah. - But there's a lot that just probably will never come out. What's something that you would do differently if you were in charge of all this? Not, and I'm not saying that in a way that like you know better than anybody. But I'm just, I'm curious about like where your head's at. What would you prioritize? - I would say let's make a list of what we do know, or okay, here's the known rules of the universe. Here's what we think the rules on the ranch. Like I told you the thing about decomposition. - Yes. - What do we think the rules are? And let's test what we think the new rules are. You know, and each of our fields, let's go through and say let's specify some new experiments to test whether or not these new perceived rules are the rules. That's what I would do. That's what I would focus on, you know, maybe not on camera, but you know, that's where I'd put my effort. - Yeah, 'cause it seems like that's pretty substantial in terms of just specifically the decomposition or the, I guess, halting of decomposition or slowing down whatever that is could essentially be very beneficial for studying things. - Oh yeah. - You know, if we had the ability to mummify things in a way that preserved their organs and didn't necessarily destroy the tissue, I feel like that would be a breakthrough for paleontology, for biology, for all types. And even perhaps, you know, answering some of the questions on, you know, the preservation of youth or the longevity of our own life span. It's like, I mean, it feels related. - Yeah, yeah, whatever it is, you know, we should have a better understanding of it because it's not just, it's internal and external. - Mm-hmm, wow, and other life forms again. If scavengers coming up are, like, deterred. - Yeah, what's doing that? So, and the cattle mutations too, it's like, I was so skeptical of cattle mutations growing up. You know, I've heard about it my whole life, but then as I've started both on the ranch and as I've talked with other people in other cases and move on has a really good record of them and they've helped me and I've gone out to some of these sites and it's like, there actually is something to this. I did not want to admit that. I'm admitting that, not all of them, but there absolutely is something to it. Why, why cattle? And we, the joke is, I don't know if you remember the Star Trek where they went back to get the whales. There's the Star Trek episode where they go back in time. There's this probe that comes from space and it's shooting this beam at the earth and it's like causing all this chaos in these oceans and they turn out well, it's actually trying to communicate with whales, but we've made whales extinct. So they go back in time and bring some whales back and like Spock says, if we were to assume that this message was meant for humans, that shows our arrogance 'cause maybe it's for another life form and it was, it was for whales, right? So, who knows, maybe cattle or what matter? Maybe aliens are coming from somewhere, they don't care about us, but they're curious about cattle. - Yeah, people in India would be, would be right about a lot of things in that case. - Yeah, which I don't say that's what it is, but I'm just saying, you gotta be open to the possibility you're wrong and you should listen, not every theory is going to be equal value, but it is valuable to hear it. - Yeah, I mean, it's wrong. - The bovine is a sacred animal in many cultures. It also is one of the only species that we're sort of compatible with on in like, I believe the plasma or something, something to do with the blood, like bovine blood, especially, I think, fetuses. And I'm not a biologist by any means, but I've read that there are some similarities there, as well as even the sort of tallow how it's like, it's good for us, our skin recognizes it as our own. And so there's all this overlap between us and bovine that seems to be related. And if that's the case, then it, I don't know, it makes for interesting speculation. I had a guest in here recently that was talking about, his alleged alien abductions and he was then sort of deferring to the idea that they feed on blood somehow, but it's consumed not orally but like absorbing it. Exactly, like they sit in these vats or whatever. And that it would make sense that their blood would be sort of compatible if we are related to these species that are taking these cows or whatever it is or taking their blood. But the desanguination is just, I think, the most bizarre part of all this because there's never, even in winter, that's what blew my mind. I live in Canada, we get a lot of snow. I take a piss in the snow, you're gonna see it, right? Let alone if a drop of blood touches the snow. These things have no blood in them. And there's no blood around them, no tracks leading up or going to or from them, no struggle. They're just dead on their side with these holes bored in them and with no blood left. What are you supposed to make of that? Yeah, like how do you frame that in a way that makes any sense? And I think hearing way out their theories is important because even if it's wrong, it's going to get you to think outside of your mindset and then you're going to make the real connection of what it is over here. So I think it's good to hear all these things. There are thought experiments. Even if you don't agree with it or you think, "Oh, this is crazy." But tell me anyways because I want the thought experience 'cause it's gonna get your mind going. Because we work in these bubbles. And you need somebody to think outside of the box and to share a different perspective to help you make new perspectives that are different than the perspective they're sharing. Correct, I agree. I don't have a working theory on what the cattle-mulation thing is. Again, my brain goes to 1990s, UFO. Picking up a cow and you know, that's the visual I get. Same thing, you say, portal band.
and Rick and Morty appears in my head. Well, whatever it is, the phenomenon is real. It's verifiable, not every case is, but it absolutely is. What is it, I don't know. I, you know, and I feel like my theories are painfully lacking on what it could, what it would be. - Their hypothesis. - Their hypothesis, and of course the brain goes to, you know, non-human intelligence, but it could be something totally abstract that we don't even know. - Right, absolutely could. - It could be some other primitive life form that is intelligent in its own right, but that is nothing to do with our type of intelligence. That's so fascinating. I'm very fascinated by all this. In terms of other biological anomalies that occur on the ranch, what else sticks out to you? I know you mentioned something about plants. Is there any, you know, flora? So one of the things we found, there's a regium. We call it the runway. And it just, the plants grow in what looks like a runway. We don't understand it. And there's a plant, it's called golden hairy aster. It's kind of a wild name there. But it's this plant that grows there. And what we found is on either side of this runway, it was growing normal. And in the runway, it was, the leaves were growing. It looked like they had been radiated. They looked all like, eh, withered. And like, so when radiation hits a life form, it mutates the cells and, you know, a cell is just, you know, reproduced, reproduced. And if you get the wrong code, you start growing, become kinratically and erratic. So they were doing that. And I thought, well, could, would the acidity and the alkalinity be different? And so we said, well, it should be in the ground. So we took samples from the ground, from these plants and checked them, the plants themselves. And in the ground, and we did find a difference in the alkalinity and the acidity based off of, in the runway, versus on either side of it, we did find that. - Right beside it. And we wanna do, we didn't, we wanna go back and do this. I wanna also test for like, isopods and, you know, small orthopods in the ground. Let's see, are they growing differently? Are they affected by this? There's one plant that, I love this plant. It's called a desert trumpet plant. It's in the buckwheat family. If you research it, you're gonna get a lot of misinformation because it grows in these weird bulbs. And there's, this one guy like in the 70s wrote and said, oh, this wasp, burrows the hole. And then it goes, and grows that way. That's not why it grows that way. They do that after the fact. But it's such a strange and specific plant that Star Trek based in alien life form off of it. It's a really cool plant. But it grows in a mathematically perfect way. I wrote up the formula for the growth. Like if you were gonna code it into a computer and replicate it. And on this one part of the ranch, it would grow the first stage normal, go to the second stage normal on the last stage. It would be like, ah, totally crazy. And the next year they did not. And so if the, so plants grow in stages. And so the assumption is that there was an energetic event that happened kind of like with this golden aster. Something happened that year at this one growth stage. Something did it and that's the same field that the falcon disappeared on and then revert over the triangle. So, you know, so the plants are telling us things too. The plants are, if you look and listen to what they're saying, the plants are, the arthropods are, the frogs are on the ranch, you know. I couldn't, to talk about the magpie nest. Yeah, that was built. Or was that talking about that breakfast? If you wanna go back to that, 'cause I thought that was really interesting. So on that North South, the path of the skin walker, it goes, let's lay the land here a little bit. The path of the skin walker, what is that exactly? And why is that an important place? So without getting too much into politics, and again, every tribe is going to share their history through their own voice. But the general, what is told is that in the past, the youth tribe and the Navajo tribe, the DNA had some beef and had some bad things happen between them. And so the Navajo cursed the youth with the path of the skin walker that goes from the South from Navajo land up north to the youth reservation, which runs right through skin walker ranch and along a very specific path. And the ranch has a fence line going along that path. And there's petroglyphs on this path. It's a very specific thing. It's not just who loosely the path of the skin walker. It's literal. Have you walked this path? Yes. Anything weird happened to you? Constantly. I mean, that's where, that's where, yeah, that's where lots of cattle mutations have happened there. If you watch the show, the big hole through the tree happened there. And the magpies, magpies build a really specific nest. They make a, like a clay nest, like a robin. And then they make a stick nest around it with walls and a ceiling and a front door. It's a very specific, very recognizable. And on this path, in this tree, right next to it, they build it, but they build it wrong. Like their orientation is wrong. They're under axis is wrong. And so the eggs fall out. And they lay more eggs, the eggs fall out. They lay more eggs. They do it every year. They'll build a new nest. Same thing. And it's all crooked and the eggs keep falling out. So happens again and again and again every single time. And what accomplices do they act up in that area as well? Or they're, yes. So there does seem to be like a geomagnetic anomaly there. Yeah, but the weird thing is like a regular compass will about half the time be messed up there and half time it works. But if you have a digital compass on your phone, the anomaly is like, oh, really? And like spin it and make it just do all kinds of crazy things. Meanwhile, you have a real compass. And it's like, okay, I'm messing with you a little. But if it's digital, it has a heyday. It goes wild. Absolutely wild. That's so silly. 'Cause it should not be related. Yeah, what does digital have to do with it? Yeah, yeah. Whoa, okay. So this, I mean, this is so, this makes me wanna go out there. Do you ever think, do you, like, if I went there, do you think they would give me a tour? If you, if we connected with Brandon. Yeah, I have a phone number. Yeah, yeah. We've spoken maybe a year ago, 'cause I have some friends out in Utah as well. And they know Brandon and they're putting me in touch and whatnot, but I know he's a busy guy. Yeah, he's really cool. And if you can get him and he's busy, he'd probably be open to that. It's not just like open for business, but he loves to help people get a beat on it and understand and help push this information out there. So I think he'd be very open to it. Yeah, be interesting. I'd be interested. There is the, you know, the one concern that the audience keeps bringing up with this stuff, as well as friends who talked to me about is this hitchhiker effect. And that is this idea that by visiting this place, you are then opening yourself up to the phenomenon in a way that will follow you back to your home. Have you experienced the hitchhiker effect? I am one of the only people who has not. And I'm grateful for that. Just about everybody who I know of, who's like the main team on the ranch. You know, there's other contractors that maybe come like once this season kind of thing, but just about everybody I know has had some sort of a skin, some sort of a hitchhiker effect happen to them and I haven't. I've had, I think, more strange things happen to me on the ranch, kind of in the paranormal kind of more of like in the ghostly type stuff than most people have that I've talked to, but off the ranch, I've had basically nothing. What's your explanation for that? What makes you immune? I, I'm not, I don't know. I don't know, I don't, I'd, I'd, I come in really wanting to understand very much so. I don't come in as a believer, but as a, it's like, hey, there's something here. I want to understand it. And I very, very much want to understand it. And that, I mean, that's what I love about it. For me, when I had this opportunity, I jumped at it because I thought, I don't want an anecdotal story. I want to know firsthand. I want my own photos, my own data that I, and for anybody else, now it's anecdotal to them. I'm sorry. And if you don't believe me, I don't care. That's fine. I salute you. Great. You don't believe me. Fine. But I'm sharing. I'm just sharing the experiences. Take it as you will and do what you want with it. I'm just reporting back because I've been grateful for this opportunity. And I want to share as much of it as I'm allowed to. And I want other minds on it. I want other people because I mean, think about it. I'm making assumptions that might not be connected. They might have a Jaguar might be totally unrelated. It might just be coincidental. If there's a Jaguar running around up there, that could be a totally unrelated thing. And then the biologist says, oh, this is connected. Maybe it's not. And so having other people talking about this and questioning it is good. So you think your open-mindedness is warding off this Hitchhiker effect to some extent? I think, well, I think it is, instead, it is toning down the trickster element. I think I've had a lot of experience in some of my don't share publicly that seemed to be like it's trying to show me and teach me. I've had more teaching moments, I think. I think a lot of the people have come in with healthy skepticism. A lot of them have no background in this kind of stuff. It's just like raw, regular science. And so they're just highly skeptical, which is good. Well, I always say, don't be a skeptic. Be skeptic, call. A skeptic is a predetermined. I don't believe in, yeah, say, show me the evidence and let me make my assumption. That's good. It's hard to be skeptical. But I think there's so many people coming so brashance and they don't want to be made a fool. - I don't care to be here.
if I'm wrong, oh, I was wrong. Okay, let's recalibrate. I don't mind being wrong, I don't mind that. And so I've had a lot of instances where kind of the trickster element, I think among everybody there, my phone has been hacked in the least. I think it's only happened twice. It was like the first season there. - That's so crazy to me that your phone's been hacked in twice and it's happened in the least. - Yeah, oh yeah. - Yeah, people have to replace their phones. - If I'm going there with my phone, you're saying there's a 100% chance that my phone will act up. - Yeah, yeah. - Especially. - I would document the hell out of my phone. - Yeah, get a second phone and film it. - Exactly. - Or a camera, not a phone to film my phone, because that'll act up too. - Yeah. - But yeah, and some people, it ruins their phone completely and scramble and they have to get a new one. And so, you know, so you're saying that the phenomenon is obviously aware on some conscious level. - It behaves that way. - Of what your intention is. - And it knows ahead of time. - And so, what do you mean it knows ahead of time? - It's somehow, it can anticipate. If you're going to do an experiment, it knows what the experiment's going to be. - Do you ever have things that happen to you before going to Skinwalker Ranch that are sort of in hindsight you go, oh, it was preparing me or it was showing me or it was telling me something? - There's been things that might just be synchronicity and might be you're seeing what you want to see and I can't rule that out, but there's some things where like I'll meet somebody or have a conversation ahead of time and then I get to the ranch and then-- - It'll feel just totally synchronicity. - It lines up, which that could just be coincidence. - It could be also like a synchronicity generator happening type thing. Like I mean, I wouldn't completely put it past. Like if we're also delving into this sort of paranormal or trans-dimensional, you know, hypotheses then, you know, the idea that synchronicities might also be enhanced in and around this place and I think would be fair to say. - Absolutely, absolutely. - Okay, so the best, I'm trying to, in my head, I'm trying to like build up armor here for, you know, an eventual trek to this area and I might, you know, I think I do have a healthy balance of skepticism, but open-mindedness and this is actually helping me prepare because I hear about these stories and although, you know, part of me wants to chalk it up to confirmation bias to, you know, suggestion. The suggestion's very powerful as well. Like if you're completely against being hypnotized and you're like, I don't believe in hypnosis and you'll never hypnotize me. And then, which you're right, you won't be able to, but then if you're best friend who you've known since you were a child, I hypnotize them in front of you. Something in the back of your mind and you're subconscious changes. - Yeah. - You might still say, well, he's just, you know, in on it or you'll never get me, but something fundamentally changes to where now you're able to be hypnotized. - Yeah. - And so, I think about that a lot when this Hitchhiker effect occurs and you have these skeptics going in these staunch sort of debunkers and they're the ones who seem to be affected the most. - And attacks. I don't like saying it, I mean, 'cause I love everybody who's, everybody I've met out there who works. Both the people doing the research and people doing security and even the film crew, you know, I've worked with film crews on other projects and it's like, there's always some drama, right? Zero drama. These are good people, they're sincere. A lot of them are skeptical too, but they're like, hey, we're just gonna film this and document this, good people. But I have seen that if you, so if you go to the ranch, go with a teach me. Just come with that attitude and be like, hey, I'm skeptical. I'm not a skeptic. I just wanna learn, I wanna experience, I wanna feel and I understand I might have a little confirmation bias that might be kind of leading me on. I'm aware of that, but still teach me and it'll show you things. But if you and like me, I mean, that's always been my attitude, right? But like, this is the portal story. - Sure, yeah, let's get into this. - But this is one of those ones where I kind of questioned it and what happened. It was kind of interesting. So me and one of my friends, Charlie, we were there and it was night time and we said, let's go do some astrophotography. And it's great night, Milky Way out. So we went over to this area and we put up our camera, start taking pictures and this is an important. But I share it as part of the story. All of a sudden we heard something going along the creek and maybe it was just a coyote or raccoon but all the frogs and crickets stopped, stopped, stopped and we got this kind of creepy feeling. Great, who cares about feelings, feelings? But anyways, that kind of creep us out for a bit, but then it went away and that feeling got away and went back to normal. We got all this great photos. We're having a good time. And I said, you know what, Charlie? Sometimes this ranch is really creepy feeling and sometimes like right now, it just feels like a regular beautiful ranch in Northern Utah. He's like, yeah, I know what you mean. Like right now, it's just a cool, beautiful place of night. And the second we both said that, we hear a sound and it's if you shoot a 22 bullet across the desert that, and also if you've ever been a frozen lake that breaking sound, it was those two sounds. You're pretty good at those sounds, by the way. Those two sounds together and we both turn to it and we look over and about eight, nine feet up, I don't know, like 20, 30 feet away. We see and it had already started. We see an expansion ring coming out. Now it was lit, but it was not self illuminating. It was like, it was expanding out so fast horizontally that if you've ever seen like explosions and slow motion where the shock wave that comes which will sometimes compress and make water vapor. Okay. That's what it was. It was a water vapor ring from the speed of it coming out and it was illuminated by the stars. And it was, it looked, it wasn't light. It wasn't producing light, but it was reflecting the starlight out and we're looking, we just see this and we're like, what, and it was, and it probably was about eight, nine, 10 feet out when we looked over and it got to about 40 feet and we said, oh, let's, let's get out of here. So we packed up our stuff and we start walking towards homestead one and the command center right next to each other. We're going towards them and also in the command center, the lights go, and go off and then go back on. And Tom came out and he's like, hey, I was looking for you guys, you guys okay, and we said, yeah, the power just went out. He's like, what do you mean? I was in the ranch house power didn't go out and like, no, it went off in the command center. He said, that's impossible. They're on the same breaker. If one goes off, they both go off and we're like, we just saw this. And so I don't know what to make of that, but I kind of take it to mean that the ranch was like, oh, yeah, just a normal ranch hunt. You know better than this. You experienced too much already. How dare you say that, I'll show you. Maybe that's not it. Maybe it's totally unrelated to an explosion out there. Some weird EMP bomb or yeah, I don't even know. But whatever whatever it was, I mean, the timing was immediate. Mm-hmm. And it that sound and just that expansion. And I don't think it was the same thing, but you understand in the big low era that, you know, they they documented vertical portals and things coming through them. So I don't know if that's the same thing. But in hindsight, would you go towards it? I would have now, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. If you told me, hey, you're about to see this and go towards it, I would have. But I was too spooked at the time. It, of course, it shocked me too much. There's things like that. I would have probably had the same reaction. Like, let's get the hell out of here. In hindsight, you go, God, yeah. Shit, I walked towards it. Well, same thing. We'll hear voices on the ranch and usually you walk away from them. Sometimes, walked towards it. What kind of voices? Well, my first one, this is it. Homestead, this is a homestead three. It's the far west end of the ranch. And Tom and Candace is my first time there. They're taking me on a tour around. And there's a Native American medicine man there with us. And he was blessing the dog who lives there, who had been attacked the week earlier. And I'm like, what did you get attacked by? And they're like, dog wolf thing. I'm like, what are you going to give me more of that? But I was just getting to know them. I didn't know them yet. So I didn't press it. So that medicine man came to give the dog a blessing. He was in a cone. And so then they're showing me around. The medicine man of the dog that the medicine man was giving the dog blessing. The cone was on the dog. Yeah. And so they took me out. And so we're showing homestead one, homestead two and homestead three. And I was, I don't know, like 30 feet away from them. And they're showing me some stuff. And then I walked away and I was looking out there. And I was just, and I started hearing voices that sounded Native American. And I know some youth. And when I was 18, I was adopted by the Kikri Cherokee tribe. I speak a little bit of Cherokee. Cherokee is not a Utah tribe in any way she performed. But I start hearing these voices and I'm leaning, leaning in. And I started speaking Cherokee at it in just like, all right, and that's my default. It's nothing to do with the language. But I'm like, and those voices were like, and they're like, it was almost like they heard me and couldn't see me and start like, what is this? What is these voices? And so I just like kind of like listening, trying to strain in. And Candace goes, Ben, Ben, and I'm like, yeah, well, and she's like, are you okay? I'm like, yeah. And I told her what happened. I'm like, why were you so worried? And apparently the week before somebody had been sitting, standing in that exact same spot, and had been looking the same direction, had gone catatonic and collapse.
had to be taken off the ranch. And so they were thinking that's what was happening to me. It wasn't, but those were the first voices I heard. Wow. Yeah. If I, if I, if I witnessed you just starting to speak Cherokee into a dark void, I would also be concerned. Well, and then like my first night on the ranch, this kind of, and again, this is anecdotal story. So, but I mean, this, I'm, I'm sharing what happened. If you don't believe me, that is fine. You have your right not to believe me. So at the time, Eric wasn't living on the ranch. He was coming on and off. And so I was in the main bedroom in the command center. And I'm like, this is kind of weird. You don't have internet working there on your phone, even though it's really close to civilization. And I was like, okay, so I'm not really connected to the outside world. I'm alone in this house. Everybody else is in Tom and Candace's house. So I have the lights on in the bedroom. I'm like, feeling a little creeped out and feel a little vulnerable. So I'm leaning over on my side. And I'm just like looking at pictures from the day at the phone. And I got the, the blankets pulled up on me. And awesome. I feel something I look down and the blankets are getting pulled off, not like falling off. These are like really coarse, crappy material blankets, not like soft, you know, silky stuff. And it's like something is pulling them off. And it goes almost all the way off the bed. And I'm like, nope, nope, nope. So I grab them and I pull it back up. And I'm like, I just got to ignore this. I can't acknowledge this. And so I'm still looking at my phone again. And it starts happening again. And they pull almost all the way off. And I'm like, I literally don't have the brain length, weight, weight, to handle this. So I bundle them in my legs. And like, and I'm like, no, there's 100% on the bed. Nothing's hanging off the bed. It's in you're taking me off. If you're taking these blankets off. And I just turned on like an audio book and slept with the lights on, because I'm like, yeah, too free to. Yeah. That's one of the scariest things ever. Yeah. Oh my God. Yeah. All the rest of the nights, I'm like, I need to sleep over here with you guys in the in the ranch house. And that was even worse because they it was so hot they had the door open. And they had guns by every door that Tom and Candace made that ranch house beautiful. I was like a beautiful, hippie place. It had like prisms and all the windows and stuff when it was sunset. They're like, it's rainbow o'clock. But they had guns by every door because things are like, yeah, something came in and attacked the dog from the door. So the screen door is there, the door is open. I'm sleeping on an air mattress in there with these guns. And I'm like, pretty vulnerable. I don't like this. Yeah. Wow. Guys, it's it's so weird. It's so weird because it it's so creepy, but it's so beautiful. It seems sometimes so malicious and sometimes it's just, hey, come and learn. Come and learn things. What's your conviction level like before and after? Are you like, did you go in thinking, oh, there's something here and you left thinking, oh, there's definitely something here? Or were you like, I don't really know what to expect. And now you're 100% in like, where's your conviction on a percentage level of the phenomenon being absolutely real as something is interacting with you. So going into it, I think I was maybe 30%, maybe 40%. I thought people think it's up here. And I think they've inflamed it up. I think it's probably there's some weirdness going on. It's probably around here. And people have people like a good story. Yeah, that's a healthy way to think. Yeah. And but now having been on the ranch 100%, 500%, I mean, it's and the thing that pisses me off scientifically is it makes zero sense. If you said, Oh, here's a place where people see Bigfoot a lot. I don't know if Bigfoot's real or not. I've seen Bigfoot and I don't know if Bigfoot's real. Okay. But if you just said that, or here's a place where we saw UFO cool. But what does that have to do with prehistoric animals coming through portals? What does that have to with cattle mutilations? What does it have to do with decomposition not happening? These things should not overlap. They're weird enough as they are. They shouldn't overlap. And they do. And I can verify that for myself. So if nobody believes me, that's fine. I know for myself because I've experienced it 100% and I've seen some of the greatest scientists I've ever had a chance to work with. Also see this first hand and see it like make them scratch their heads and some of them get attacked. What's the most important discovery during your time there that you think even outside of yourself that was made while you were there? That's a tough one because there's more about what is profit. I mean, I think the fact that we've got UFOs on camera, killing a cow, that's not the most important. But I think that's pretty low hanging fruit. It's like UFO killed a cow, cow spirals and goes whack a doodle. And then a dire wolf or something bites through its bone. I mean, it's just an odd chain of things. I think there's a lot of medical physical, metaphysical things. The fact that there's, there does genuinely seem to be portals. The fact that you had lasers stopped. I mean, that's maybe the fields of science that I'm not in version of the decomposition thing. It's like shooting a laser at the sky and having it stop or having it split or go into four directions randomly. That's, it's a laser. It goes only one direction unless you bend it. That bubble, whatever that dome that bubble is, it's real. We've had dropped things down and had things kind of bounce off of it. We've had drones, you know, when you have the border of it, drones and are trying to do a grid pattern. And I, I filmed it with my phone. This thing is like, it's like it ran into a wall. And it's like, and then it has to go back to home base and recalibrate and then go through it. Rockets. You had rockets that, you know, once they hit that, go and we've had rockets when they come down and they hit that zone and they stay. Oh, I'm going to sit in one place for 30 seconds on a parachute and then, and then go over. We've dropped GPS things in cans out of the helicopter and they seem to bounce off it. I don't understand what it is, but whatever it is, it's really important. The triangle seems to be kind of the center of it. Whatever that is, whatever that zone is and, you know, we see things going underground. But I mean, and I think on my end, you know, watching a Falcon go through a portal and come out the other side. That's, that's pretty wild. There's pretty wild. I will give you that. Yeah. All of this seems to be really, it's hard to put it into one category. And I think that's probably why, you know, like you said, it's pretty frustrating scientifically. You know, some of this stuff behaves like, oh, it was radiated. Like if you look at the plant life, like you said, like, okay, there does seem to be some correlation here with radiation, whether that's some type of beam striking down, whether there's something in the earth that is there that is causing, you know, as a radiating that area, you know, that could also make sense, perhaps, of some of the species being a little different, you know, because if you're mutating cells at a level where you, you can see, you know, plants be different, then obviously that might also be true for whatever's living there. Yeah. It might have evolved differently than other predators in that neighboring area. And when we found it on, on the elk on the ranch on the game cameras, they have spots that correlate with almost like if you, if you took like a dental X ray and put it right up at their face and left it on for an hour. And then what it does to the skin and what it does to the hair spots on them doing that. We've documented that, but the strange thing is is a lot of times when you have these spiked radiation levels come back four hours later, it's back to normal. And you know, yeah, radiation should just be there for another half a million years. Exactly. And it doesn't. And how, so is that an issue with the instruments? Was the phenomenon like messing with your instruments to make you think there was a spike? Or did you actually have transient radiating? It's impossible, but is that what happened? We don't know. But the plants definitely do seem to act like it. And again, some of the animals we found, you know, some of the deer and some of the elk, you know, we've also found or whatever's causing this has similar symptoms to being radiated. Maybe it's some other type of force that we're not familiar with. Correct. That would, I think makes some sense. Yeah. And, and again, some of the animals we see, you know, because they just being large, we found on the game cameras, a giant raccoon that's got way longer legs. Everybody thought they're like, is this a bear? And they thought it was a black bear. I'm like, no, and it has this really stumpy tail. And I showed everybody the pictures. I'm like, again, during the ice age, we had this giant raccoon called Chapel, Melania. And I'm like, okay, is this, I'm not saying it is, but if you had like radiation, could this be just a regular raccoon that got radiated in this somehow changed to more of a cancerous type growth and more bulbous back and longer legs in this stupor stumpy tail? But it looked just like, you know, again, if you see this, if you're not, if you know biology, but you don't know paleontology, then you don't make this jump. And it's like, well, okay, we had giant 300 pound beavers, you know, castorites. We had giant raccoons, you know, Chapel Melania that lived alongside the regular ones. Yeah, they didn't turn into this. These are, these lived at the same time. These are gone. We had giant jaguars and regular jaguars. The big ones are supposedly gone. Had dire wolves and gray wolves.
walls, dire walls are gone, you know, but they live side by side. And so you got to make that connection. The ecosystems of North America are not intact. I mean, we should have mammoths and camels and sloths and all these things alongside elk and moose and deer and turkeys and all these things. Pretty compelling, pretty interesting. I can't wait to get some actual, you know, 4K imagery of like one of these things just showing up or even better yet a body. Yeah, you know, that would be, that would be the day because I think, you know, something like that then becomes an international. I mean, it becomes big news in every regard and not just in the sort of alien paranormal UFO regards, but like more so like, hey, there are things happening on this earth that are apparently natural, apparently, you know, tied to some event that is creating these little pockets here. I mean, that itself is equally as fascinating as extraterrestrials to me. It really is, you know, it might not capture imagination as much, but I mean, like we, whatever this wolf thing is, you know, we have a good chunk of the body. We have the jaw, we have the DNA sequenced and it's been compared by the most extensive genetics lab on earth at the moment by every other canine on the planet and all the different dog breeds too. And it doesn't match any of them. And it's a tangible evidence. I got it sitting in my house, you know, the jaws sitting in my house. You're a picture of that? Yeah. Yeah. And also I forgot to mention this. Let me make sure it gets you pictures of these two. This is another, this is another weird thing. See, there's little things like this that are actually big that these are big stories, but I forget because there's been years and so many things. So that jaw, I cleaned it off and then I let dermested beetles at home, cleaned it off further, and then I took it back to the ranch. So I had it in like a little Tupperware, a little rubber-made container, no lid, just paper towels. You know, it's about this deep. And so I show up at the ranch and I said, hey, come on and have lunch. I'm like, well, I'm going to leave this outside. So when you're walking up the stairs to the trailer, there's a little table right there. I said it on that table. People are walking in and out, past it. I was in their eating lunch for maybe 10 minutes, 12 minutes. And when I came back out, it's hovered all over with lacerations, deep incisions. Now, if somebody like could have been a rodent, they're not doubled up. They're individual lacerations. And it's sitting in the exact position when I set it down. It's not like somebody picked it up, cut it, and then put it back in all around it. Deep, deep, deep incisions. And I asked around, like, did anybody touch this? I mean, did anybody notice anything? No. And like 10 or 12 minutes eating lunch. People walk past it and somehow it's covered with lacerations. Like noticeable. No. Oh, yeah, I'll send you pictures there. They would have noticed that these weren't absolutely like you would have to like you'd have to do this with a dremel or to do to do these to do these into the raw bone and have them look like this. You would have had to have done it when the bone was still fresh, right? Or else it would have cracked. Yeah. Mm-hmm. And so somehow these are that way. And I got pictures of the job before. And and after. And it's like how did this happen? I have no idea. But deep, deep, deep, these big old lacerations, like something just all over even on the side everywhere and all around it. Bizarre. Just happened and that was 10 to 12 minutes. So abstract. And yeah, what what's the point of that? Yeah. Why would something do that? What does it mean? What is it saying? Is it saying anything? How could it happen? I don't know. What? So, you know, the one thing that I am sort of leaning towards more of now, and you know, you touched on this a little bit, you said, as we're looking at things and there's this pendulum swings, you know, we get into science. And now we're looking at religion, spirituality, we get too far in a religion, spirituality. We're looking at the scientific explanation. There's this. There's this ebb and flow of of these two worlds. But something, which is more on the spiritual side and something that perhaps being an esceptic myself or skeptical, I've, you know, now as my pendulum is swinging back towards this idea of, okay, there's there's something perhaps tying the spiritual world into, you know, a scientific world. At the heart of that are these Native American first nations, indigenous tribes, these, these tribes that are that have been here for a very long time that seem to be at the very root in terms of not only their sort of a bit, for the most part, they're lore. They're, you know, they talk about star people. They talk about all these things that we find in so many different religions and that we're looking at now in the sky. We're seeing a lot of these anomalous, you know, UAP activity, but we're kind of echoing in our own language what they were saying. And so I think they have so many answers for us. Being someone who's adopted by Cherokee, what do you make of that? Do you, do you, do you put stock into that as well? I definitely do, especially the tribes in Southwestern United States and Northwestern Mexico, all the way up to Navajo and you, which is, you know, Skinwalker Ranch would be the north eastern range of that. Those people, their stories, their legends, they're something to it and there's something connecting to some of these paranormal phenomenon and it seems very legitimate. The more and more I study it and the more and more I learn about it, the more I very much, very much see something with it. And you see that with ancient peoples. You can put it everywhere, like the, in Australia, the aborigines, though, if you look up the Wanchina figures, it's like, that just, they just look like gray alien. Some people say, well, they're water spirits. It's like, you put a gray next to them and it's like, this is literally the same thing and they're all over. And those are like 10, 12,000 year old paintings. So the tribes here, absolutely. Their stories, there's a story with one of the eastern tribes, one of the eastern hardwood forest tribes and they have a legend of that there was a child that, that one of the beings from the Skyworld came down, fell in love with the woman and they had a child together and they said, okay, you have to take care of this child and don't ever strike the child. If you strike the child, then Skywoman's going to take her back in this child. It's going to live back with the father and the people it came from and it's this holster and they still, but the grandma did, like, school the child and, you know, gave him a whack. And so they took him away. And even if that's legend, a legend can be based off of something. And so the people today, they still all will have these ceremonies where they cry and give mourning sorrow for this Skychild that was taken back up to live with this rain spirit that, you know, took him up. So you might just be making an incorrect connection, but you're also stupid if you dismiss it. It's like, listen to the legend and let it percolate. Think about it. It's like, okay, this gives me a greater worldview and maybe it can make some connections of understanding. Do you think they're, do you think they know more than they're letting on? Because I know that a lot of these communities are very tight-knit as well. And that, you know, they don't just give information freely to outsiders who are, who are coming in. And that's just what, and you have to, even if you wanted to tell a story, you'd have to get approval from like the elders or like the chief or whatever it is, you'd have to go to the community and be like, can I tell the story? Can I give them this information? So do you think there's still a lot that they're kind of keeping secret? I think that in general, loosely in general, yes, with all the tribes, but very specifically, Southwest tribes and Southwest United States, Northwestern Mexico. In archaeology, we call it the Southwest Northwest region. Those people absolutely have things that they, you know, and occasionally you'll get them to explain a little bit to it. And again, they're using terms that, you know, are mythological in the vocabulary, but it's very much, very literal on how the end window when they'll leak some of it out and tell you a little bit, it's like, oh, that's exactly fits in with this or that that we see in some of these events. And it lines up, you know, the timelines aren't perfect, you know, oral histories or oral histories. They're not going to be perfect. They're going to change a bit. And what you end up with is you have primordial time. So like if I said, when was Jesus born? That's a historical question. Whether Jesus or not was real, it's a historical question. If I say when was Zeus born or when was Horace born, that's that's that's primordial time. That's time before time. And that's when these legends take place. They could be, you know, the future of the past a million years ago, 10 years ago in in the stories. They're told that way, just like when was Zeus born? It doesn't matter. It's and it's and that's how these stories are. But they have truth in them. They have deep truth in them. And it is true that there's a lot that is especially in those southwest Northwest tribes. There is a lot that only occasionally gets leaked out. And when it does you're like, yeah, that might be the reason why
why skin walker ranch is so interesting because it is where science and spirituality intersects. We're talking about these ancient tribes that there's burial grounds there, there's curses, there's these legend and lore that's present in this area. And now we have the world's leading scientists, the world's government, like the biggest militarized government in the world, turning their attentions to this tribal land here that's sacred. And now we're finally, like the pendulum seems to have met in the middle here at skin walker ranch. And it's interesting to see what will come from that, but I do feel in my gut that as long as we measure with the instruments that we're familiar with, we'll only get undetermined answers and then that will have to start adapting the other way and look inwards and have these other ways of measuring things. Well, and you have to, it's okay to be skeptical, and it's okay to say show me the evidence, but it's like if you see some evidence, you don't have to have a conclusion, but you at least have to acknowledge this is some evidence, you know, like when the rabbi did the prayer on the ranch and all of a sudden all at homestead to all of the colors, the thermal imaging cameras just changed everything or when they brought that tribe out and they did a drum circle there and all of a sudden, like these orbs were coming into the mesa on camera. It's like, okay, I don't know what that means, but you have to at least say this is a thing that happened. I'm going to put it in my brain and I'm going to factor it in. Just dismiss it, you know, and we may not know what it means. And just because you don't know what it means, that's okay. You don't have to be like, therefore, it's stupid. No, don't dismiss it. Just log it in there and keep that as part of the information. She get people to do like some ayahuasca ceremonies there or something, I feel like you probably get some interesting, I think these things, I think they, and I wonder if that may have happened off camera without me around. I know Eric and I really want to do a lot of experiments, growing mushrooms and also have people. It's so siphon. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, I'd be down to experiment with that as well. I think that would be like a heck of a place where you get tuned into some, you know, wild frequencies. Yeah. I think it would, I think it should be done. Yeah. It should be done in a controlled setting or, you know, dose setting, setting how it would be very safe and have people there to make sure it's done well and right, but also to make sure it's not too clinical to be like, Hey, we're open to learning. We want to learn. We got people here to make sure it's safe, but I'm using locals, perhaps in their own methods and, you know, I think it would be really, really wise to that, and that would be an episode of Skinwalker. I'd love to watch. I'll tell you that right now. That would be great, actually. That would be incredible. Well, if Brandon, if you're listening and you ever need somebody to help set it up, I'd be more than happy to throw my name in the hat. Ben, I'm going to grab, I'm going to turn this camera on back here. We got some questions from the audience that I'd love to ask you. That was great. All right. So, if you're a member here at Area 52, you get access to a lot of perks. One of the main perks here that a lot of people seem to like is the possibility of asking our guests a question. So I inform them 24 hours ahead, usually 24 hours, and they get to ask us some questions, and then I cherry-pick from those, and often I'll tell you, collectively, their questions are better than mine. I mean, there, you know, a bunch of really interesting, intelligent people coming together, asking questions. It's the greatest way to ask the best questions, so I encourage you guys to do that if you are a part of the membership already. All right, here we go. Interesting question here by Michelle L. P. So this question asks, is there video evidence of active portals at the ranch that is being suppressed? I don't always being suppressed, but I think suppressed seems kind of nefarious. I know there is footage from the Bigelow era, and I believe we have footage now. I mean, there's things we have seen with the bubble that have shown that I believe that things have been documented currently that might not be in circulation. But I think suppressed is more of a nefarious term that I would use, but I think there's some that is being held classified. Do you think that, because I mean, we've documented, you know, with lidar and with different scans, we have absolutely verified, you know, portals, you know, through that triangle area. We've absolutely had that's been made public, so I think there's more to it than that. But I know the Bigelow era stuff is not all come out. Do you think it will eventually or is that just because it's government? Probably not for 50 years. Probably not yet. Yeah. Yeah. You're probably right. Okay. Question, Michelle. You got another one here. By Perry here, he says, "If you had the ultimate evidence biological or otherwise, to whom would you present it?" The greatest number of people possible, whatever would be the greatest way to get it out there to the world. Right here on Area 52. Yeah. That's what I want as many people. I don't want to, I don't want to guard the information. I want people. I want other minds thinking about it. People to be aware, talking, discussing, and all of us collectively to move forward and move upward and get new thinking on it. Do you think that any of that scientific evidence is currently being withheld because of the filming of the show? Do you think that any of that should be made public? I think so. Yeah. There's some things that are just anecdotally held back just as like, "Okay, well, who made we're going to put this in later season." That's why I want to be here is to get some of this out. Yeah. Some of it for very simple and not very important reasons are held back. What I do also think that some of the big stuff is held back on a more governmental level. Really? Yeah. Because we're not all there all the time. There's nobody's there all the time. It's somewhat compartmentalized, and so depending on what experiments are happening, what days, some of the really big stuff doesn't come out till later, and I've had people behind the scenes tell me that some of the stuff maybe doesn't come out fully at all yet. And some of the bigger, more, I don't want to say scary, but more profound things. They kind of sit on and process like what do we do with this information? So some of it, again, just for basic filming reasons, but some of the things happen because again, this is a year-round thing. Do you think there's national security implications? Yeah, absolutely. Really? Yeah. 100% are there. Do you even see some of that on the show? You'll see snippets that show that, but yeah, there's absolutely. I mean, the first season Travis had to break his NDAs to tell the Department of Defense so like, hey, there might be getting hacked here by either foreign entities or foreign governments, and I got to break the NDAs in. So there's absolutely things that are held back. 100% are. Wow. Interesting. I'll be excited to hopefully find out what that is one day. Maybe in person. Mm-hmm. Alright. Probably something we touched on. This is while working on the ranch, was there a fundamental biological theory that you felt was challenged? And I mean, this is by Thomas Tom Ten. I would assume decomposition being, you know, the big one, but was there a specific theory that you felt was being challenged? I think the biggest one is the tephonomy, you know, the science of decomposition both, you know, I mean, that even goes back to paleontological times, ancient times. Yeah, that would be the big thing of how things decompose and what happens post-mortem, you know, the cow contorting into the dinosaur of death pose. That's also a taxonomical scientific thing that is being challenged the way the, you know, way tendons and ligaments attach and the way they dry out, it's a cut and dry way. You can only fit a puzzle in a certain way. That should not have happened and it seemed, oh, the cow spiral, you know, so that the tephonomy of the ranch absolutely challenged. And also the existence of animals that shouldn't be there, that's another biological presence that absolutely challenges my understanding of the modern world. Have you found any clues into the study of the tissue that might answer some of that some of those questions? No, it just seems all frozen. What do you mean frozen? Any tissue samples we've checked, it's like it's dead, it's like it's frozen in time, but then it should be decomposing. If you have cells that are no longer moving, they're not, you know, there's no indicators telling you why it's not decomposing. Yeah, external bacteria as well as not chomping on it. So the cells themselves are not and the external bacteria is not. And critters aren't either. Yeah. Everything, there's nothing that tells you why that is. There's no chemical, no, there's no radiation, there's no. Nope. There's nothing. There's nothing. There's no presence of it makes no sense. Yeah. Yeah. And again, and a scavenger should know a scavenger should come along and say, here's something. I'm going to tell you why does it. What does it sense? Yeah, that when we see them on camera, when we have cameras on them, then they're like, huh, they kind of like back away. There's something about it. There's something that repulses them. Something that they see that we can't see or feel or sense. Yeah. Yeah. Wow. It's interesting. It just shows you how much we don't know. Mm-hmm. Um. Okay. This last question here by Majest Thiff 12. What's the biggest misconception the public has about what's actually happening there? Um, I think, I think the perception is, you go there, well, you know, I would have said originally that, hey, all the stuff is happening all the time and that, you know, there's always UFOs and stuff. Um, and I would say, no, it's more staggered, but that's actually not true because the longer I've been there and long as these longer, these, uh, brand and fuel era experience have gone on. It has amped up. It has. There's, I've never been to the ranch where something has not happened. When how long do you go for when you go there? Um, I mean, it might be a day. It might be a week. Oh, and still. Yeah. Yeah. Every, every single time I go there, there's always something every day that I go there, there's something that happens. There's always something, uh, something that we pick up and experiment that there's always something strange. Uh, it always delivers for me. Um, I know other people, but I mean, I'm, I'm looking to, you know, I'm coming at this from a biological and a paleontological approach, which is different where if you're, I don't know if you're doing security or job is to protect the people, make sure people are safe. And so things still happen to them too, you know, and their phones are still getting hacked as well. But there is never been a time that I've been on the ranch where I haven't had several things happen 100% of the time. Wow. Very interesting indeed. Ben, if people want to get in touch with you or if they want to ask you questions or if they want to look at some of your work, like, what's the best way to do that? So the best way is I run several YouTube channels. Uh, the best ones are desert lore, which I teach all kinds of ancient history and do exploring archeology, something like that. And uh, Ben Woodruff falconry and that's not just falconry. It's all kinds of things. And then at the Hutchings Museum, I run that YouTube channel. Uh, you can also find me on Facebook. Um, and I would say if you can't get a hold of me, just keep after me till you do. I'm super busy and, uh, and scatterbrain. So just keep after me till you reach me. Well, you've been a pleasure and a joy and a really, really, um, you've been just great at answering these questions for me. And, and obviously, I think putting me over the edge, peeking my curiosity about skin walker ranch is just that much more where, uh, maybe the push that I needed to, uh, to investigate this for myself one day. Yeah, we've got to get you out there. Yeah. Well, I appreciate you. I appreciate the offer and I appreciate you coming here and sharing all this with us. Absolutely. Thanks for having me out. Thanks. [Music] [Music] [Music] [Music] [Music]
Podcast Summary
Key Points:
The Skin Walker Ranch has a long history of anomalous events, including UFO sightings, cattle mutilations, and unexplained animal deaths that defy normal decomposition.
Government involvement dates back to the 1990s, with figures like Bob Bigelow and Senator Harry Reid funding research, though current operations remain under government oversight with limited transparency.
The ranch appears to operate with a self-aware or conscious energy that manipulates digital devices, alters animal biology, and responds to observers' intentions—acting like a trickster that teaches through disruption and mystery.
Summary:
The Skin Walker Ranch is a site of persistent and unexplained anomalies tied to UFO activity, wildlife behavior, and biological phenomena that defy known scientific laws. Visitors report dead animals—especially small mammals—that remain perfectly preserved for months without decay, with no signs of scavengers or internal breakdown. These observations, including a skunk preserved for three years and a bird with missing bones and decomposed tissue, suggest a phenomenon that may involve time suspension or non-terrestrial biology.
Government involvement began in the 1990s with scientific researchers, including Bob Bigelow, and continues today, though with secrecy and limited public disclosure. The ranch exhibits a pattern of resistance to observation, with digital devices malfunctioning, phones being hacked, and audio anomalies like double echoes. Some events, such as a falcon vanishing and reappearing miles away, appear to involve teleportation or time distortion, supported by GPS and radio data.
While scientific testing has yielded results like a 90% unknown wolf DNA profile, which raises questions about alien or prehistoric species, the data remains incomplete and often suppressed. The ranch also shows signs of environmental shifts, such as a growing number of animals and jaguar-like sightings, suggesting possible ecological or dimensional disruptions. Despite the lack of official acknowledgment, the phenomenon is deeply embedded in local lore and scientific inquiry, with researchers noting that the most profound anomalies—like halted decomposition or time-based effects—may be more significant than visible UFOs.
The deeper mystery lies in the ranch’s self-aware behavior, which seems to adapt to observers, teaching them through disruption. This challenges conventional science and points to a complex, possibly conscious, natural system operating beyond known physics. While some aspects are shared publicly through media, much of the evidence remains classified or restricted due to national security concerns.
The ongoing investigation highlights a critical tension between scientific measurement and the phenomenon’s apparent ability to manipulate observation itself.
FAQs
The Skin Walker Ranch is known for a wide range of anomalous phenomena, including cattle mutilations, UFO sightings, poltergeist activity, and the appearance of prehistoric animals. It has a long history of strange occurrences dating back thousands of years, with government interest beginning in the 1990s.
Yes, small animals like rabbits, skunks, and birds have been observed not decomposing at all. These animals remain floppy, without rotting, bloating, or scavenger activity, and some, like a skunk, were documented for three years without any signs of decay.
A cow was seen on daylight cameras under a fence line, where it buckled and died. Weeks later, it was found contorted in what researchers call a 'dinosaur death pose,' and a rib with bite marks was found, indicating a possible large, powerful predator.
Yes, a rib with unusual bite marks was found that matched neither a regular wolf nor a coyote. DNA testing revealed 90% of the DNA was from an unknown, non-existent wolf species, raising questions about the origin of the animal and suggesting possible extraterrestrial or ancient origins.
Yes, including a falcon that disappeared from the sky and reappeared miles away, a bird that panicked mid-flight, and a cow that went into a 'dinosaur death pose' after being exposed to a UFO. These events suggest possible time anomalies or energetic interference.
Yes, there is evidence of government interest, including surveillance warnings, unexplained aerial activity (like black helicopters), and government officials being involved in inquiries. However, the extent of involvement remains limited and officially unconfirmed.
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