"Skinny Bob is Real" – Lifelong Abductee Reveals Everything - Erik Nanstiel | DEBRIEFED ep. 85

Tickets to the It's Probably Nothing Live Show are now available link below. As soon as I decided I wanted to wake up, an image flashed into my head of a green maple leaf with a sunsh, above it shining down through it, and I could see the, the gossamer structure of the leaf, and there was like this really sickly music box type music playing. It felt like it was meant to distract me, to dazzle me. And as fast as I could turn my head to the left, I saw them. For small creatures, they, whooshed out of my room, whoosh, whoosh, whoosh, whoosh. If you ever saw the skinny Bob footage, which was supposedly Soviet footage, that was them, the four little skinny Bob's. Exactly like that. Exactly like that. Yeah, this, this is, this is part for me of the most fascinating, um, part of your case because it's, it's such a crude and strange method. You decided, hey, if something's entering my room, and if something is tampering with my things, or with me potentially, why not try to communicate with them? I created a poster, uh, I want to remember your visit, let me remember you, I will not harm it. And big block letters on an eight and a half by eleven poster. I printed it out and I taped it on my wall above my headboard, two weeks later, something happened. And I woke up in my garage, and I was suspended off the concrete floor, and I was tilted forward at a twenty five thirty degree angle, and I was looking down at one of those little skinny Bob's. Do you think they're evil? I think they're desperate. I think that they're trying to survive, and I think they want to come here. I think they want to live here on our planet, and they can't do so without, uh, borrowing heavily from our, uh, gene pool. The word abduction itself doesn't encompass the, the loss of agency, you know, and, and to be shown children, I can never touch your love or, or hold or know. That just, that just makes me shake with anger. You know, I, I hate these people, I hate them. Hi Chris, my name's Terry, I'm probably going to regret this, but here it goes. In 1969, while working at a venue in San Francisco called the Family Dog in a great highway, I got involved with a conversation with a gentleman who had walked up the street, who started explaining that there were these beings that, uh, pick existed here at a higher vibrational level. He said that they had a physical existence, but they were out of our range of perception. And then he looked at me and said, they'd like to speak to you if you're interested. I don't think I was out of his mind, but I also thought being a 17 year old that, yeah, it's true. It could be me. You're interested in hearing what happened after that. Let me know. Eric Nanceel, thank you so much for joining me today in the skiff. And I, um, just finished reading your book, angst in the shadows. It was a really interesting and incredible story of alien abduction of an ongoing, what seems to be like this progressing, ongoing experience that you keep having to relive. And today I want to talk to you about the origins of that, how we got into that and then based on your experiences, what your theories are. Absolutely. And thank you for having me. You know, it's not every day we get, I get to speak to, uh, experiencers. And that's one of the things that I think draws me to this book, like many others, whether it's, you know, Whitley Streiber, I mean, um, Betty and Dreson, Travis Walton, so many others is, you know, we can learn a fair amount of things from whistleblowers or from observations in the sky or a flair footage, but you can't learn about their culture. You can't learn about their origin. You can't learn truly about, you know, their technology, um, unless you speak to an experience or, and that gives you some type of glimpse into their world, um, I agree. Although a reluctant glimpse, I'm sure at times, but for you, this all started when you were just a baby. That's right. For me, when I was a baby, but it started for my mother in the 1950s. And, um, but I'll start with myself. In 1970, I was, I don't say about spring, like April, May of 1970. Um, I was about 15, 16 months old. And, um, it started with these white orbs of plasma that would enter my room. Um, I was, uh, I remembered it because this happened so often, it just kind of burned into my memory. Normally, I wouldn't remember anything from my infancy, but in this case, I do. And I, I remember standing up in my crib, you know, with the, the wooden bars and just holding on to the railing and, and, um, looking at my closet. And as I did, uh, this white plasma orb, it was like glowing bright, just came right through my, um, bedroom closet door and, uh, cross the room at about the speed of an adult walking. And it came up to my forehead, touched my forehead and I lost consciousness. And this happened on a nearly monthly basis for four years. But you didn't remember this until you were like a little bit older, right? Before you remembered it, you just hadn't made the, the ET connection. Absolutely. I told my mother about it when I was old enough to talk about it because it happened up until the age of five. It stopped happening probably in late 1974. And, uh, my, uh, my mother, which this freaks me out because she didn't tell me this until like the last couple of years, uh, when I was writing the book. My mother told me that in 1974, she had, um, recurrent nightmares, dreams of, uh, running through the neighborhood from a friend's house to try to get home. It was her and my father and myself. And I, you know, at that time was only five. And, um, as we're running home, these hundreds of white orbs would descend from the sky and chase us. And we're trying to like duck through the backyards and hide behind sheds and things like that in her dream. And an, an, an orb would catch up to us and shine a beam of light down on us. And, uh, this is something she told you while she had these dreams. I was seeing warbs in my waking consciousness and my waking life in my bedrooms as a kid and it happened all the time. It happened so often I developed a fear of closets, um, but it wasn't just a closet. Sometimes it would come through like the knee wall by the ceiling, sometimes just through the wall through a window, but usually through what color or white, bright, bright, white about the size of a softball, wow, about this big. And, uh, so every time my mom had this nightmare about the orbs catching up to us, I would be taken, hmm, she's having nightmares about me being taken when I'm seeing these things actually visiting me in my waking life. Um, I don't remember being taken anywhere back then. I would go unconscious and when I wake up again, uh, everything was normal. I'm back here. I'm out in normal. Right. Uh, and then, you know, sometimes you might dismiss it as a dream at the time, but, um, but I know the difference between being awake and, and having a vivid dream. Um, there's, there, it's so different. Yeah. And so I know when I'm awake, um, so, but that wasn't my mother's first experience. If she's having these nightmares about orbs chasing us, that tells me that her subconscious mind is suppressing memories of some kind because I was, I was still too young. Like I, I wasn't really talking about the orbs. I mentioned them once or twice and my mom said, Oh, they're probably just angels and you're special and they're just visiting you and like, Oh, I'm special, you know, angels visit me. Great. Right. I don't believe that anymore. Yeah. I take it in the context of my abduction encounters that I had later on. Um, so, but for my mother, all this started back in 1953 when she was nine years old. She, uh, lived in Turtle Creek, Pennsylvania, which is a suburb outside of Pittsburgh, uh, her family lived in a small home on top of Rose Hill on Cluckstown Avenue. It's, uh, it's just a narrow street with houses on one side and a view of a valley pretty far below of a massive train yard. And um, there was one summer night. I think it was in July. I'm not sure. I don't remember what she told me I might have put it in the book, um, but her brother saw UFO at night flying over the valley and it was you know circular and and lights, and it was moving laterally, you know, it was moving parallel to the valley and kind of stopped above their house, and then they were looking at it, and then it just, "Woof, gone, just up and go." So they ran into the kitchen, and my mother was in there, and this was close to bedtime. They ran into the kitchen, my mother and her little brother, Billy, was in there and her, and this was Dick and Don, and they came in, "Hey mom, Betty Ann, we saw UFO flying over the valley," and then, so they described it, and then so everybody ran outside to go, take a look at this UFO, it was gone, but my mom didn't get to see it. However that night, about 2/30 in the morning, now she had her own bedroom, she was the only sibling that had her own bedroom, because there was eight kids and she was the only young female, so she had her own bedroom. All the other kids that were still in the house were sharing a bedroom in the front. Anyway, she woke up in the middle of the night at 2/30 a.m., and she felt compelled, like she had to go check on something down in the basement, which was, at the time, just a dirty cold cellar, I mean, just dirt and there's a couple of laundry machines down there and that was it. That's no place for a nine-year-old girl at 2/30 in the morning, no cellar, but she felt compelled that she had to go check on something, she didn't understand, like it felt urgent. So she got up, she snuck downstairs, went down the stairs, and through the dining room, to the kitchen, turned on the light above the, you know, by the basement door, open the door, and the light illuminated the stairs just to the base of the stairs, no further, beyond that was shadowed blackness. And so she got about, I don't know, three or four steps down before she noticed some shapes coming out of the darkness, and they turned out to be two very large German shepherds, and they were growling and snarling at her, and she was frightened, and she didn't have German shepherds. No, they had a little fluffy white dog named Fuzzy, definitely a far cry from a German shepard. Right, right, and why would they be in the basement at 2/30 at night? Right. And this is your impression, you know, traveling a little further in time here, but this is a screen memory. I believe it was a screen memory, yes, because I'm taking it in the context of everything, that's happened later. It only makes sense that her brothers see the UFO that night, and she's having this really weird encounter in the basement. The dog's lunged at her, and she passes unconscious, and then when she wakes up again, she's back in her room. No scratches. Right. Right. Right. So at the time, she just wrote it off as a dream, forgot about it. She didn't think about it again until the 2020s when my encounter started to happen so regularly that I was actually waking up and seeing, you know, what was going on with me and where I was and who I was interacting with, you know, that was happening so often. So I started to tell my family, like, hey, these things are happening to me. And when I told my mother that sometimes the graze, when I would see them, sometimes at first they would appear like humans, or I would believe that they're human, like a post-hypnotic suggestion kind of a thing. And then later on, when I'm back at home and I wake up, the visual memory of what I actually saw is what I remembered must have been very confusing to try and figure that out and try to map that out in your own mind. It's like, I was talking to my brother Ron last night, but no, that was a, the big eyes and a gray face, you know, it was a small gray, you know, so things like that. So eventually I was telling my mom about the screen memories. And then that just clicked something in her head. And I told her about Whitley Strieber with the barn owl through the kitchen window. I mean, so many, so many reports of whether it's deer, owls, I mean, many types of even, you know, different people, children, like there's all types of strange screen memories. And I think for the most part, what stays with people when they hear about these things is the absurdity of what they're seeing, right? Because there is, there is this idea, okay, maybe you did see an owl or maybe you did see a dog, but you're like, no, there is an abstractness to what I'm seeing and it's misplaced. It's not supposed to be here. And that's where it almost seems like there is a sort of disconnect between, you know, whatever technology or telepathic ability they're using to potentially project a screen memory. They don't fully understand what's normal, right? And they're projecting some strange, you know, event where we're seeing it as like highly anomalous. Like, why would I be in an air traffic control tower surrounded by windows in this round room with a baby on, well, yeah, and a seven and a half foot tall air traffic controller, giant air traffic controller wearing short sleeve, worst shirt. Folks, today I just want to talk to you very quickly about something very near and dear to me. This is van man. I just genuinely wanted to shout this out because I love this product line. I use it. It is something that I highly recommend, especially the tallow. Because if you look at most like moisturizers, it's literally chemicals, fillers, stuff you can't even pronounce and somehow that's like the norm. And that's why I really love van man. They started with grass fed tallow moisturizers and it's one of those things that just makes so much sense once you understand it. Like the fatty acids and tallow are almost identical to the oils in your skin. The ones that your skin naturally produces. So your body actually recognizes it and you put it on once and it just sort of absorbs differently. Your skin feels immediately softer, smoother without that fake coated feeling you get from most creams. And because there's no filler garbage, you barely need any. It's not just a moisturizer. People use it for everything. Lotion, night cream, dry skin irritation, even as a replacement for stuff like neosporin. So it's powerful enough to actually help your skin heal, but the ingredients are so clean. It's technically edible. It's a pretty different standard than most skin care. And if you want to try for yourself, go to vanman.shop/area52 and use code area52 for 15% off your first order. It's vanman.shop/area52, code area52 for 15% off van man. All ingredients, no exceptions, folks, I can't recommend this stuff enough, genuinely love their products. Definitely try it out if you're into it. I order these, I use them so happy that they sponsor this video, so thank you to vanman. Okay, we have these initial memories of these orbs coming into your room. There is also an incident later on in your life where you're in a hospital and the orb comes over, comes over you as well and you experience some type of healing event. Were you perceived as a potential ability to heal another child in the hospital? Is that fair to say? Yes, this happened in 1974 in Park Ridge, Illinois at Lutheran General Hospital. I was in for observation related to an injury I sustained in a bouncy house at Adventureland, which bouncy houses were not ubiquitous back in the early 70s, they only had them at theme parks, so before anybody objects, oh you couldn't have been in a bouncy house, those are a new thing, they're not. I got trampled and I had a concussion and so I was being observed for some minor seizure activity. I outcrew it a few years later, but while I was there on my last day, I remember it was late and I was starting to get drowsy but I was still awake, very awake and I was looking at the, I was closest to the hallway door and the bathroom and Tommy, my roommate, he was closer to the window, so it was a too bad room and he was, he had some kind of sepsis going on. He had an infected abscess in his abdomen and it was all the way up around his heart and lungs and he had 110 fever, well they varied between 105 and 110 and I don't remember his last name but his name was Tommy and my mother was told me this story so many times that's why I remembered it, but you were how old? I was five, okay and I, the night before it was time for me to leave because I was there for like four days, Tommy was there for one or two days. The night before I was to leave, a white orb came through the hallway door into the hospital room. Is that night? This was at night, yeah and it was lights out, you know, we were just time for bed and do you remember waking up? I was awake. You were awake, you were not asleep? Yeah. was too much noise in the hallway. I wasn't ready to fall asleep, but I was quiet and I was just kind of like lazily staring at the window until I fell asleep. But I remember the door had a window with the reinforced wire mesh inside and white linen curtains hanging over it. So the orb came through that and came to my bed and touched my forehead and I was instantly asleep on conscious. I woke up the next morning and the nurse came in to help me prepare to leave. And so I used a washroom, got dressed, and my mother came for me. And Tommy's mother was there. She never left. She never left her son's side. She slept there all night with him because he was deathly ill and probably expected to die. I assumed he was going to die. Nobody told me that, but I expected it. And I was kind of afraid of him. Like, emotionally, I couldn't handle being around somebody who was dying. I was five-year-old very. Yeah, I didn't really comprehend the right. I just didn't, I was just like, I don't want to be near him. And so my mother came with a toy truck and she wanted me to give it to Tommy. And I told her, Mommy, I don't, I don't want to talk to him. He's going to die. And my mom said, honey, you have to, you have to say goodbye to him. It's a nice thing to do. So I took the truck from her and I walked over to Tommy's bed and he had a little three set of stairs wooden stairway that the kids used to climb up into small children and climb up into the bed because the beds are kind of high. And I knelt beside him and he was so weak, he was looking at me like, listless, you know. And I, I set the, the little toy truck next to his head, next to his pillow. And I said, this is for you. And I knew he wasn't going to play with him right there. But just a thought came into my mind right then. And I'm like, I don't even know why it was just instinct. I just spread out my hands like this. And I placed my hands on his abdomen, his torso. And I just move my hands up and down his body. And, and I said, there, now you're going to be all better. And meanwhile, my mother and Tommy's mother were near the door conferring with each other and looking at me and like, what's he doing? It's kind of weird. So I said, there, now you're going to be all better. And I hopped down off the bed and my mother and I were about to leave. I ran down the hallway. You remember saying that to him? I remember saying that to him. Yes. And then, but my mother told me something I said when I was in the hallway, she said, I was looking at my hands. I said, I have magic hands. Well, I don't remember saying that, but she remembers I saying that. Okay. That I said that. Um, so apparently they had exchanged numbers of my mother and Tommy's mother. And so I don't know if it was like a week later, but Tommy's mother called my mom and said, um, they, uh, they took her son in for testing to see like, how are they going to try to save his life because he was laying on a like an ice bed overnight to try to get his body temperature now. Yeah, right. You know, because it was so high. And, um, but his fever had already broken when the doctors came form. And, uh, they, they ran some tests and the abscess was completely gone. All that infected group that was in there gone. And, um, so Tommy's mother was pretty excited. She called my mom and, and she's told him, you know, it's a miracle while he, he didn't, didn't require surgery or anything. Um, I don't know if they really scheduled him for surgery, but I kind of assumed they would. But, uh, he didn't need it. Do you ever follow up with your mom into like, who this person was? And she, does she have the number still? No, no, I mean, back then, all the, all the phone numbers in Chicago were three, one, two area. They only had one area code. So the number wouldn't be good anymore. And this isn't something your mom would have told you just to make you feel good. No, she, she told me, uh, it was probably years later that she told me what hurt what Tommy's mother said. Wow. Um, so, but then, uh, later that year, my grandfather, uh, my mom's father, uh, Sydney, um, came to visit, because he, he'd never visited Chicago before. Um, they didn't have a lot of money, so they didn't do a lot of traveling, but he wanted to visit Chicago and he wanted to visit his son in California. But while he was in Chicago, he became very sick. He had so CEO PD and he was dying on our living room rug. It was a blue rug, like a textured rug. And, um, and I remember the paramedics had been there and they were like all these needles all over the floor, but, um, he told my mom he wanted to live one more year so he could go out to California and visit his son. I think, uh, his son Jim. And, uh, so I knelt down beside him and I put my hands on him too. And, uh, his medical emergency just ceased to be. And, and he was okay. Um, and he lived for almost exactly one year, like within a week. Um, and he got to go to California and visit his son and I never healed again. I never did it again. I never tried it again. Um, I don't think I have it anymore. I think it was related to the activity. I was experiencing with those words from the orb. Yeah. Like it was somehow instilled within you for that small finite amount of time. For some reason, you think Tommy might have grown up to be somebody really important. Perhaps they didn't know. I mean, what else would there? I think it's connected to innocence. I think I think you sure you have you have access to a higher consciousness within you when you're innocent and you're not so jaded and cynical from adult life. Yeah, I can see that as I am. Yeah. So, um, I, I don't think I have it. What do you make of, um, you know, tangent here, but what do you make of, like, the Chris Bledso stuff? Uh, honestly, I haven't looked into him too closely because there's a lot of obvious crossovers here with orbs being present and then healing, you know, he writes in his book that he was able to and this was corroborated actually by Grant Cameron who was here on this podcast that he was able to heal his dog, Nelly, from, you know, when she was like spurting blood across the house and just putting his hands on the dog. And then another instance of him healing a child that was pretty much, um, make a wish kid and very little time to live had like intestinal problems and then after his visit, those went away, you know, after he laid his hands on the child. And, um, and then, you know, many people have claimed since then as well to have had some miraculous intervention due to, you know, whether it's him praying or him like being involved. Do you think that something like that is legitimately from visitation? Do you think like, do you think this is possible? I could, well, I believe that some people have the ability to heal. Um, I think it's a real thing without ET intervention. I don't know. Right. All I know is that I've had visits and I've had healing episodes. Mm-hmm. And, and later on in life in the 2020s, I was healed. Right. Um, in, in a facility that he had me in. We'll get to that. Yeah. Um, then you have like books like Preston Dentett, who you mentioned in your book, uh, as well. And, and he's got a book where he covers 300 healing cases of orbs or ET phenomenon, um, and just so many of the same type of story, especially in hospitals, a lot of times in hospitals, surprisingly, where you have these orbs floating in and being witnessed and just kind of healing people. Do you think, was there ever at any point in your life where you got confirmation that those orbs were related to the later sort of grays, uh, inner, uh, interacting with you? When I came upon a realization that that was connected to the abductions I was going through, it was only after watching an episode of ancient aliens where they, where they, uh, showed the, uh, the cast, uh, live on stage at an alien con. And somebody was talking about orbs and they were, they also had abduction encounters. So they saw orbs and then I see. So I'm like, those are connected. And then, and then it just started to click, you know, and then, um, my mother later told me about her episode in the 1950s because I was telling her about these screen memories because I started to look into it because it was happening so often. And I wasn't believing what I was seeing, but then eventually those screen memories stopped working on me because that's something that they impose upon you through some kind of post hypnotic. Yeah, some illusory sort of sealed. Yeah, they, they just make you think you're seeing familiar types of people, familiar types of places, you know, where I think I'm in a hospital or I think I'm in a air traffic control tower or some place like that. And as soon as you see past the veil, it's really hard to keep that, that charade up. It stopped working on me. So I was visually seeing either a tall gray or a small grays. Um, Sometimes both in the same room. That's interesting because, you know, we talked about this at dinner last night, but it is one of those things where, you know, as a magician myself, I've been able to use hypnosis for entertainment purposes. I've, you know, I have friends who are some of the best hypnotists in the world, entertainment, hypnotist, not clinical, hypnotherapist or anything, but can do some of the most incredible things to the human mind and make you perceive certain things through different, you know, stages of suggestion. The interesting notion, though, is that as a magician, I am ironically disillusioned by this because I know how it works. So I do, there is some susceptibility here. There is like a layer that I can no longer be sort of hypnotized by. And so I understand the idea of seeing a screen memory or something, some veil, and then seeing past it and then being like, oh, is that all it is? And then once you have that information, you can no longer go back. Like someone who's readily, read into how to hypnotize people, whether clinically, or whether, you know, for entertainment does have an edge on not being hypnotized. I think the tall grades are stronger to add it, um, the ability to impose screen memories stronger at it than the stronger psychically. Yeah, yeah, the short grades almost every time I've seen them, uh, there was, there was no, no costume. Yeah. No, it was just them. Yeah. Okay. So let's get into that. I think the first, um, your first run in was 1994 if I'm not mistaken. The first run out, right. The first that I remember where I actually saw a graze was in 1994's in Wheeling, Illinois. Um, I had a, I was sharing a two bedroom apartment with my childhood best friend, Joe. And, um, he wasn't there that weekend, but this happened on August 20th, 1994. It was a Saturday. I looked it up. And, um, by, I remembered it was the third Saturday of the month. And that's why I looked it up and found out it was August 20th. Um, but it was, uh, I don't know, maybe six, 30 in the morning, the sun was coming in. And, uh, I was aware that, that the morning light was in the room and I had become conscious in my sleep. So it was a, it was a lucid dream state, um, but I wanted to wake up. And, um, so I, you know, I had plans that day and I was actively thinking about those plans while my eyes are closed. I'm like, all right, I'm going to wake up and, and, uh, you know, take care of business. Um, and I couldn't open my eyes and then I'm like, wait, that's weird. So I tried to move my body. I couldn't move my body. I'm like, all right, is this, you know, later on, I'm like, was it, it was like, could that have been sleep paralysis? I mean, it kind of fits the symptoms. But, um, as soon as I decided I wanted to wake up, uh, an image flash into my head of, uh, a green maple leaf with a sunsh, uh, above it, shining down through it and I could see the, the customer structure of the leaf, the cells and the veins. And I was rotating underneath the, the leaf itself. And there was like this really sickly music box type music playing. And, um, it was, it was just just a sick melody that I, it was disturbing. It almost felt like a horror movie, um, but it felt like it was meant to distract me, to dazzle me. You know, like dangling keys in front of a baby kind of a thing. Um, so I started a panic and at first I couldn't move, but then I started a shake and I felt the bed shaking underneath me. And I was finally able to pop open my eyes, set up straight and bad. And as fast as I could turn my head to the left, I saw them for small, uh, creatures, the ash and gray bulbous heads, big, black eyes, uh, dark coveralls from their head down from their neck down to their, their feet. And they washed out of my room, whoosh, whoosh, whoosh, like they were propelled. They, they weren't running. They were moving too fast for something so small to run. Uh, they were propelled like, like, and the way they accelerated it was kind of like they were at the end of a taught bungee cord that was snapped loose. And they just accelerated right out right through my bedroom, the door, which was closed. I don't know why they chose the door. I'm the, I guess they could have gone through the wall, but they went through the door at this point. You're wide awake. Oh, yeah, and, and freaking out. This is not one of those moments where you wake up twice. No, you're wide awake in your bed and you're seeing this. Yeah, as fast as I could turn my head, they, you know, if I had turned my head ever so slightly slower, I would have missed them. But you got a good enough glimpse. Yeah. And, um, and it kind of burned in my memory. Um, so then I started, I mean, I'm like, those, those look like little gray aliens. So I started like reading. So I, I didn't do a lot of reading, but I read about the Betty and Barney Hill case and I was interested in that. And, um, and there was a lot of boggle is our stuff going on in 1994. Uh, you know, videos that you could rent at the video store and they came out with that tester's model kit and I bought one of those. And so I was interested in in the mid 90s for a while as a result of seeing them in my room. This was after seeing them. Yeah. Not before, after. Yeah. Um, but I did not, was there, was there any interest before? Were you at all like, did you have a, a mental image of what a gray looked like or like, were you seeking them out? Many capacity. I, I, I did because I saw Whitley streamers book, um, I mean, like five years before that, uh, on, uh, an end cap. Very different from a gray, like a typical gray though. Well, because the skin tone isn't great. It's not an accurate drawing that's, that's supposed to be a representation of a tall gray and it's not accurate at all. But it looked emotionally familiar to me when I, I saw it at a, at a grocery store, at a dual osco in northwest highway, um, and just planes and it, it was at a grocery store and it was $5 and two cents and the paperback. It was the first edition paperback. And so I got it and I read it because the cover freaked me out and I couldn't explain why. Uh, but I read it and I still wasn't like, it wasn't like bringing up memories or anything from earlier, nothing like that. Um, so maybe I didn't see any grays in the 70s. It maybe I, I was unconscious for those encounters, um, with those orbs, but, um, you know, after they renter me unconscious and, and let's say if they had taken me, maybe I was asleep the whole time during the encounter. I don't know. But, um, but still that, that cover on communion. And this was like 1988, 89 when I saw the book and I bought it. Right. But I read it and then I set it aside. And then in 1994, I actually saw grays in my room. Just suddenly, it wasn't like something I was like really into or, you know, it was just kind of like casual passing interest at the very different as well from the description. Even in the book to holy communion because, you know, the tinier beings that Whitley describes had hoods. These are more like a little gargoyle figures like just, I didn't see anything like that. You know, you saw, like kind of the tall version in a short form. No, um, but with gray skin. No, they, no, they look different. If you ever saw the skinny Bob, uh, uh, sure footage, uh, which was supposedly Soviet footage. Yeah, we, we reviewed it here on the channel. That, that was them. The four little skinny vibes. Exactly. Like that. Exactly. Like that. Three and a half. He tall. Exactly. Like that. Their little worker bees is what they seem to be. Um, they, they, you believe that skinny Bob footage to be authentic. I do. But, um, somebody dressed it up with like, yeah. Face scratch marks and, yeah. Right. Uh, but, but the original footage. Yeah. That was real because that's exactly how they look. That's exactly how they move. And really when I, yeah, the first time I saw it, I freaked out, um, because, because it was like, you know, you, your heart races a little bit. You're thinking, oh my god, they're real. Right. Yeah, because it was like, it wasn't like, I had a visual memory that I could sketch on paper. Right. But one, you knew it when you saw it, when you saw it, you knew it. And, and so I, I know that's authentic. I, I mean, it's just every fiber of my being. You, you, even if, if you had a guy come up and say, Hey, look, I, you know, I faked this with his 3D software. I'm, I'm going to think he's trying to make a name for himself. And he's faking it, you know, faking, faking it. Right. Um, but yeah. So you'd put you about your life on it. Yeah. Those are four little skinny bobs that I saw running out of my room. You would, you would swear that that is real. That's, that's wild. Yeah. Absolutely. And because I saw the next time I saw a skinny Bob was 26 years later, uh, this was in, uh, 2020, this is your next experience. Yeah. So there's quite a, quite a time frame, quite a, quite a difference in time. And before we get to that next experience, that a lot of the amount of time is. Is there a significance there? I think that they come, they, they have a schedule that they follow when they, they seem to follow family lines and they have a schedule and they seem to, uh, every 20 years, they'll come for a four year rotation. And they'll come every four to six weeks for four years, so you'll have a rash, you know, like however many encounters, 48 encounters, over four-year period, sometimes more than that, and then 20 years off, and then it happens again. So I'm not expecting them back in my life until I'm in my 70s, because when they came I was, uh, when they started coming back, I was 51. You were pretty recently. Yeah. Yeah. I'm 57 now. That's just something that is not readily talked about anymore. It seems, it seems to me like the abduction phenomenon, and that might only be because of the coverage of it, but it seems to have dissipated in some way, compared to, you know, the amount, but I speak to a lot of people who are abductees, and they they tend to disagree. They're like, no, this is ongoing. This is still happening today. Popular culture might have made it passe over the years. Sure. But it's still very strong going on. There's somebody I can't really talk about for privacy concerns, but I may have possibly led them to this person, and they are now experiencing the phenomenon. They've hinted at that, but wouldn't give them any details, because they didn't want to be dragged into into this talk. Rightfully so. It takes a lot of courage, you know, to talk about this stuff publicly for sure, and to let people in, especially when you're dealing with some of the procedures that are involved. They're quite invasive. They're the most personal, you know, and it's as personal as you're thinking out there, like that's, it has to do with reproduction. It has to do with some type of, you know, insemination or whatnot, like there is some very private details that there are some very private details that you go over in this book and that Whitley is provided as well in his book. And some I haven't given. Sure. Okay, so the next time you were to meet any of these beings, and because you would so far only met four skinny Bob as you put at these short ones, but then 20 years later, 26 years, 26 years later, you are suddenly awake. Right, but let me back up two months. Sure. I noticed things starting to go awry in my bedroom. Oh, that's right. In January of 2020, between when I'd go to bed at night and when I would wake up in the morning, something would have changed or been different in my bedroom. And sometimes they were quite noticeable. The most significant was I'd wake up in my bedding was 90 degrees oriented the wrong direction as though it had been completely removed and then put back on the wrong way. I have these black and gold stripes on my duvet and it lay across my legs. And then I'd wake up in the morning and it was vertical stripes. I'm like, that's weird. But what made it weirder was the fact that I normally have like a back scratcher and I sleep alone. I have a back scratcher and a night mask, a sleep mask that I put on on top of the bed. I might need in the middle of the night, but normally if I have a rough night and I'm like tossing and turning, these things always get kicked off onto the floor and the opposite side of the bed. And so when I woke up and the thing was oriented the wrong way, I expected those things would be on the other side on the floor, but they weren't. They were neatly placed side by side with each other under the top sheet right next to my body. And I'm like, that's weird. I wouldn't do that because you'd roll onto this sharp, edged back scratcher to wake you up and be uncomfortable. Maybe you'd get a scratch. I don't know. So you'd suspected that somebody had tampered. Right. It just didn't make sense. It didn't add up because I know I didn't do that, you know. And then another time was I woke up in the morning and I had my ear plugs, I had these orange foam ear plugs had been removed from from my ears. Now normally if I remove them, I just throw them onto the night stance, just willingly just throw them like a paradise. And so when I didn't remember removing them, I looked on the better on me to see if they'd fallen out of my ears, but they didn't. And then I looked to my nightstand right next to me and they were stacked on their ends, neatly, daintily next to each other. I saw that. My eyes went wide like, whoa. Like, how did that happen? I didn't do that. I know I didn't do that. Later on, years later, I would meet a woman who experienced that exact same phenomenon with her ear plugs, which blew my mind. Yeah. That was validation, at least on that one little detail that I just, that was awesome. So anyway, I, after several incidents between January and late March, I decided to do an experiment. Like, imagine setting your makeup then forgetting it's even theirs. Meet new grippy setting mist from Maybelline New York. Gel to mist technology locks in your look for up to 24 hours with flexible all day comfy grip. No tightness, no stickiness, no residue, just plump, dewy, hydrated skin that still feels like your skin. Try new grippy setting mist from Maybelline New York. Maybe it's Maybelline. Yeah. This is part for me of the most fascinating part of your case because it's such a crude and strange method to, I mean, you know, when I read this, I was like, no way. It's the equivalent of, you know, putting an SOS sign on on the beach with rocks. But you decided, hey, if something's entering my room, and if something is tampering with my things or with me potentially, and you suspect that it might be these little creatures that you saw years before, why not try to communicate with them? And that just kind of blew my mind when I read that because I don't think that's where very many people's heads ends up when they think about this stuff. They're more like, please do not come back. Right. Well, if you can't be awake to communicate, how else do you get going to do it? So what did you do? I created a poster. I went online and I found a picture of a small gray alien that looked like the ones I saw in 1994. And it was an illustration of a little skinny Bob. And I'm like, okay, that's the one. So I put the illustration on the poster. And I said, I want to remember your visit. Let me remember you. I will not harm it in big black letters on an 8 1/2 by 11 poster. I printed it out, glossy paper. And I taped it on my wall above my headboard. And I thought, okay, I hope that babysitter doesn't enter my room or somebody like Caesar's because they're going to think I'm loaning to 100%. Oh, yeah. I mean, this is like, this is really strange stuff. So I'm like, yeah, let alone bringing a date home or something. Oh, no, I would rip it down. I'm like, last thing you want them to see. I'm not letting you into my weird little world just yet. Fair enough. So what I did was I put it up there. And a week goes by, nothing, nothing. And then as the days go by, I've kind of forget it's even up there. I just ignore it. I have no idea how long it's going to be if ever, you know, and maybe nothing will happen. And I'll just tear it down and forget the whole thing. But two weeks later, something happened. And I woke up in my garage wearing nothing but my boxer briefs that I was wearing to bed. And I was suspended off the concrete floor. And I was tilted forward at a 25 30 degree angle. And I was looking down at one of those little skinny bombs. And he was wearing dark coveralls. And it was dark and very dark in the garage. But there was light streaming in the side window, illuminating the the small grays left side. And to my left was my, I had a 2002 Chevy trailblazer. And then I could see like the the paint cans and the the shelves behind the gray. And it just noticing my environment. I was able to turn my head. Could you feel the environment? Like the cold the smell. I was numb. It was like being drunk. But without the buzzy feeling. You're in a state of pure awareness. You're very awake. You're pure awareness. But you're you're deafened. You can't think straight. And this thing spoke to me. Words in my mind. Words actual words. Yeah, we're actual English words in my mind. There's a voice to these. Well, it sounded like a voice, but it was, but it You know, I mean, yeah, it's hard to it didn't have an accent or anything. It was like the closest Would be like a Midwestern accent, you know, just very very clear syllables and and just and it didn't sound like Mechanical it didn't sound familiar. No, it was just just words in my mind that that maybe my brain interpret is English or maybe it knew English I don't know was it stern? No, it was just very matter of fact and it said to me Apparently in response to the poster that I want to remember you guys. It said we can't allow you to remember our visit or else my superiors will know about it and Before I could formulate a response or a question because I was I was confused. I didn't like what am I seeing? Before I could formulate any kind of response. I was instantly unconscious again and not dreaming sleep a black sleep You know, just completely black sleep and then when I woke up I woke up from a black sleep. There were no further imagery in my mind and And it was I don't know sometime after 3 a.m Which is normally when people tend to wake up like that's normally like a a REM. Yeah, period of time. Yeah We'll least reboot a scribe the same time. Yeah, but that was like the witching or you know, sure yeah, um, so I I sat up in bed and I just couldn't believe what I just experienced. Of course. I don't know how long it was after the garage that I had woken up It could have been an hour later. I don't know, but you know for for those wondering like How would you describe knowing the difference? Between being in your garage or perceiving that to be your garage like for you what is the oh my god This is my garage because obviously if you're listening to this the first thing you're gonna say is it's that was a dream It's more visceral than a dream You know, it's it's more physical I I couldn't it would I should have been freezing it. I mean the garage must have been 40 degrees Fahrenheit At that time. It's a very insulated well insulated garage You know, so the wind doesn't make it too cold, but it cools down slowly or night So it would have been would have been about 40 degrees in there. I didn't feel anything Um, and I didn't and I knew I wasn't touching the concrete because I I didn't feel the concrete under my feet and my feet were not dirty Afterwards um, I was and and from My eyeline being just about Equal to the roof rack Right Told me I was off the floor. I couldn't see my feet because I was I was leaning forward Um, you know, and my my hands or my arms are at my side and I was I was like a frozen plastic I made an illustration of this you can see it on on my my books website Um, and and the illustration exists exactly right and the way that the I illustrated the the light streaming in it there was like black and white streams like you know And and the the light was moving like this side to side as as though there was like a spinning or moving or Or or something was walking in front of the light source. I don't know, but it was like doing this as it was Illuminating him from the side that the light the streams were moving Um, it was very strange. You think it was a ship. I don't know. It could have been or it could have been yeah I don't know, but something was very brightly lit. There were no signs later on the you went to check outside Yeah, there was nothing there was no burn marks or anything like that. So whatever it was it wouldn't have landed Um, yeah, it is interesting to have that vantage point In the garage as well where that's not You're not likely to have that point of view if it weren't for the fact that you were elevated. I don't dream about my garage Yeah, I mean, it's like I got paint cans in there and tools and lawnmower and snowblower and a car and Um, it's it's usually you dream about things that you have an emotional attachment to or something you're concerned about or thinking about Sure, there are abstract dreams as well. I would say I wouldn't rule out you know dreaming about something absurd but Also knowing the difference between a dream and reality. I think is is the It's a more important part here. It's such a different experience for me and and I know the difference between when I'm asleep or um, I would like in the experience to I was I was in a car accident during college and I told you about this at dinner last night Um, I was in a car accident. This was in Iowa and my roommate John was driving. I was drunk in the back seat He was sober, but he was driving and the roads were icy and we were going like on like a A bridge like over a creek or something and and he slid and hit the back of a semi with the his right front corner and we're spinning around Anyway, until he was able to write the car and we narrowly it averted death from an incoming traffic Um, I was just taking it all in like in slow motion. I was dissociating myself Uh, because I didn't want to believe it was real and I was numb because I was drunk um, that's what That's what the entransment that they impose upon you feels like it feels like being drunk But without that uncomfortable busy feeling um, you don't feel anything below your neck. No fear No, no fear. That's the thing. They they have a way of dialing down your nervous system to like, I don't know Just enough to keep you alive and flooding you with endorphins or some feel good hormone. It could be something like that Or it could just be um, that their telepathy is so strong it it overwhelms your sensory processing ability and your brain Just can't process everything coming in um, so the only sense that works are my eyes Um, it could be something like that. So I mean, I'm I'm open to any cogent theory that that you know holds up to scrutiny Um, so yeah, so that was that was the first remembered encounter after this encounter um, this is obviously now It's hugely different from this Sort of transient glimpse that you had at these four beings rushing out of your room. Yeah waking up from a dream, you know, you're kind of like Although that might have seemed real to you What impact did this new experience have on the past one? Did it reinforce it? Were you like reinforced the crap like because it was the same kind of creature Um, I'm sure they're different individuals. Sure You know, I don't know how long these things live, but this was 26 years later. Yeah um The same same kind of creature. Yeah, you know that the you know, the head was about this big about the size of our head But tiny little skinny little body and and wearing black coveralls And these black coveralls, you know, just they cover everything except their hands on their feet. I don't remember seeing the feet so I can't It that's a fuzzy detail But you see their hands in their their feet. How many fingers? I don't know. I'm I get the impression it's five, but I don't I know it that's a fuzzy detail Okay, because when you see them, you're focused on their face. Of course. Yeah, I mean I would be counting fingers either or maybe I would now, but If you in that moment, I wouldn't I mean if you had gal Gadot in front of you Would you be looking at her feet in her hands to see if there's extra fingers? And hey, I might be into I might be more into feet and hands than you know You'd be looking at her pretty amazing face for all right Okay, so We have this experience now. This is 2020 yes And you proceed to have similar experience or not similar experience, but experiences with similar beings For the next four years. Yeah, and in fact the very next week I met a tall gray a young one and this is the one floating over you right A week later one of the superiors that the the little guy told me in the garage one of those superiors that Would know about it if they let me remember the visit one of the superiors showed up Yeah, the manager. Yeah, right, but I think he was like a junior of some kind because he was shorter than tall grays I would see later on he was only about five and a half feet tall But I woke up Exactly one week later and there was a face right in front of mine The one on the cover. Yeah, the one on the cover and in fact that was such a powerful moment for me Um, I had to put I had to put that on the cover even though it The cover almost looks sexually suggestive, but it wasn't that kind of a situation. Mm-hmm. He um He wanted to position himself without moving me. So his face was in front of mine. I think he wanted me to look him in the eyes I woke up and there was light Between our bodies. Uh, he wasn't clothed. He had no clothing. I and and I was only wearing my my boxer shorts Um, but uh, they had removed the bedding And he was he was on top of me. I right there. Just just the two big eyes. I was intimidated So I couldn't look him directly in the eyes So I stared at his shoulder at his right shoulder and um And I was just like okay, I'm just gonna focus on his shoulder So I was looking at the skin tone the texture um the color and um it noticed that I was interested because I had the thought I wanted, I want to touch his shoulder and it knew that. Suddenly I was able to move my left arm. I couldn't move the rest of my body, but I was able to move my left arm. So I positioned it between the tight space, between our chests and I put my hand on, on his right shoulder and I was kind of like massaging like I guess like the shoulder blade area. I don't know if he had a shoulder blade, but I'm just you know just that area and it was very tight and sinewy and muscular. There was no subcutaneous fat on this thing at all and it was like kind of like leather but slightly bumpier but also smooth. It had it had more of a texture than fine leather and then he had a collar bone just like we do and I had my thumb on it and after a while I calm down enough that I I put my hand down and I felt comfortable enough to look him in the eye and as soon as I looked him in the eye he leaned forward and touched his forehead to mine and I was instantly unconscious when he touches forehead to mine. Just kind of like with the warbs on the touch of my forehead, I'm unconscious and suddenly I was in a dream state and I was dreaming this environment of a Bavarian village. We were standing on a cobblestone street. There were buildings nearby with half timbered architecture just like you'd see in downtown Nuremberg or some place like that and so had you ever been to Germany? Never but it was gorgeous and we were standing beside a sloped hill that had a stone stairway going up it and we were on a slant and there were cars parked on it. I don't know why he would put cars in that environment. I don't know but it was just kind of a strange place to be but we were kind of like on a slanted parking area and and he was there that the tall gray was there and he was about five and a half feet tall much shorter than later tall grays I would see and then those little skinny bobs there was three of them that were next to the bed to the right of me. They they were there also but they appeared as three little girls wearing little blue dresses and blue eyed and blonde haired and but I I knew later on that it was them but at the time with the entransment that they had me in I thought they were accepting yeah accepting the illusion right at that time later on the illusions wouldn't work on me anymore but at this time it did and and I was confused why we were standing in this area I was like I was just in my bedroom this doesn't make sense but this thing's standing in front of me and I was able to ask it a couple questions and I asked it what's your name and he said sizzlick and so I bent down to the little girls I I had telepathy with him but I didn't know that the little girls could hear him too I didn't know they were telepathic so I spoke to them again this is all a virtual imposed dream environment this this wasn't really happening but I believe the communication was real but the environment was virtual so that said so I'd bent down and I talked to the little girl verbally orally and I'd say he says his name is sizzlick or psilocyc I wasn't sure I got the syllables right later on I replayed on my mind it was yeah it was sizzlick and then I asked some other questions like are you from say to reticuli that's a very specific question but it's because I read about Betty and Barney Hill in the 90s and Marjorie Fish this amateur astronomer took Betty Hills star map that she saw when during her abduction and was able to correlate it to zeta reticuli and then I remember Bob Lazar talking about zeta reticuli in the 90s so that was in my head yeah also I would say before Bob there was a Bill Herman as well who was told by the beings that they were from zeta reticulum as well so I asked and he said yes and I said are you from the fourth planet and he said yes I'm like okay and again I asked him something based on something I read I read about the project Serpo those papers I read those in the 90s also yeah the Reagan yeah the the supposed Reagan briefing yeah probably wasn't even real but but supposedly our military called their planet Serpo so I asked do you call your planet Serpo and he says no we don't call it that so I was waiting waiting waiting you didn't tell me like what do you call it if you didn't tell me and it's just irritating because nobody knows nobody knows what they call their home world there's a book by I mean there's a few there's there's you know the the erids obviously is like another erudania erudania whatever is the planet that starts system in the vicinity but then there's also the story of this guy named Amori Rivera I spoke to you briefly about yesterday he's this just this guy in the 80s in Puerto Rico who has this abduction experience with along with like 14 other people being taken to a planet in the planet that they're taken to is pronounced Ka KAA essentially oh sounds a Egyptian it almost sounds Egyptian yeah and that was a but it was the letter K in Spanish which I or in yeah in whatever language they were using but that was the only other you know but then there's I mean there's so many stories if you look at Wendell Stevens and he covered just a vast amount of contact cases from you know umo to moringa eti bira and drameda mirisal all these different like places but also these different star systems and planets that kept coming up but yeah alas none of those were offered to you you're far better studied than I am but I'm still new to the researching all this stuff uh but so so I know he's from zeta particular yeah but I couldn't think of any good questions like why are you bothering me like you know and at the time I hadn't talked to my mom yet I hadn't told anybody about the previous week and and uh if you could go back to that moment or question would you ask if I could ask if I you're in that moment right now they and trans you because they they don't trust that you won't pick them up and throw them against the wall all right let's take for granted that you won't do that all right all right and and you're given an opportunity I want I want to know what what why why they're bothering my family in particular like what do they find useful about the genes from my family the sort of why me yeah yeah exactly uh and um I suspected that they had bothered my daughter uh during one of my encounters I woke up uh afterward and she was giggling and squealing with delight in her bedroom and I ran in there because I'm like they better not be bothering her and uh and I'm like well maybe she just woke up because her pull-up needed to be changed I mean she's an adult wearing diapers because she's severe autism um very low functioning uh so I checked her and she's her pull-up was bone dry and and she was able to go right back to sleep there was no reason for her to wake up um maybe they been entertaining her while they were messing with me I don't know um but I just hope that they leave her alone because that would just anger me to no end yeah um you leave my little girl alone yeah did does it seem because um she's nonverbal um she couldn't tell me if they did no yeah does it do you ever get the impression that um and you know not to not to be insensitive but there is this you know telepathy tapes obviously which I'm sure you're aware of by now it's been mentioned to me yeah it spellers and things like that have you ever know that's kind of that's kind of new-ish yeah you know because my my intervention and my advocacy within the autism community goes back more than 20 years and I uh after a while when I became a single parent I I stopped following up every promising intervention because we tried so many and we spent so much money I spent $60,000 trying to recover my daughter's cognitive abilities to get her closer to her aid range so she could have some measure of independence and um I failed um so she's now today she's living in a group home I'm an empty nester because I'm too tired to change diapers every day I did it for 16 years by myself um so uh but this this started happening before she moved out of the house and I was uh I was concerned maybe that they were I don't want them going to her for OVA or anything like that I want them to leave her alone I'll give them whatever they need I'll cooperate with them you leave her the F alone do you think they're aware of you doing interviews right now. I have something to say about that. I posted a couple of signs over the four-year period that they were visiting me. Different advertisements. Different messages. Different messages? Requests. I said, you know, I remember so much from my encounters with you guys. Why don't you let me be fully awake for the whole thing? I'll cooperate with you. I just wanted to remember everything. And one night I had what felt more like a dream than a waking encounter where I was asked the question, what would you do if we allowed you to be fully awake? And I was in a very honest mood and I said, well, of course I'd talk to newspapers and magazines. And I would, you know, I would talk about this. You know, you have to talk about this. And yeah, denied. So, but I had some waking counters where they, I think they were experimenting with me. They were letting me be awake for short periods of time anywhere from 12 seconds to two minutes depending on on what was going on. If they required my physical cooperation or if they wanted to show me something, it was a longer period of time where I was allowed to be standing on my feet. But they kept me very, very sedated, like cognitively sedated where you're just very passive and agreeable and you just do what you're told. Do you, when you wake up from these experiences, do you feel like an insane amount of fatigue? Sometimes, like you hadn't slept at all. Yeah, yeah, I'd wake up, which was very inconvenient because, you know, I have to go to work. And even though I go to bed at 8.39 o'clock at night, you know, I try to get to bed as early as I can. While my daughter was still at home, because I never know when she's going to wake me up in the middle of the night to change a pull-up. You know, it was a rough period of time as a single father to a child like her. I love her dearly. She's everything to me, but it was stressful. So, I'd go to bed early every night. But after an encounter, I'd wake up the next day and I felt like I hadn't slept at all and it's just exhausting. Yeah, it's like that. So, let's go to some of the other encounters that you had after this. Yeah, there's some interesting ones because, you know, you were taken to what seems not only like a board of craft, but also maybe to some type of facility, several times. Yeah, whether that's underground or whether that's in a giant mothership, like you wouldn't know, but you were also, they also alluded to the fact that that they have facilities underground. That's right. And you're by in Illinois. So, let's talk about before we get to the underground facilities. Let's talk about some of the other encounters that you had leading up to that. Sure. There were just a bunch of little encounters where like I'd wake up and I there were four. Always four. Yeah, they always come to me at fours, whether it's a mixture of the tall ones and the short ones or all short ones, but I woke up and it was very dark in the room and I saw two of them levitating above my bed and trading positions and landing on either side of the bed. So there was, excuse me, so there was four of them, two on each side of the bed and two of them traded places by levitating over top of me. And while they were levitating. Take a step. Sorry, my throat gets too dry. You're thinking now and I just got something to my throat. Yeah. So while they were levitating, there was like an extremely faint green aurora around their bodies and I could make out some details on their faces and they were, they had like a grand. There was, you showed me a few pictures at dinner last night just before we get into this story that you are pretty high conviction on in terms of their appearance. One photo was from a video that was deemed fake of this giant sort of gray terrifying looking like. Absolutely. It's so haunting. It's so close to accurate. I mean, it's so close. At first, I took it for real video, but upon a little doing a little research, I asked Groc, I showed the video and it's like, no, that's fake and here's the artist name and this is the software he used in. So I was satisfied with that explanation, but it was close. Whoever made this might have had access to photos or had seen one, I don't know, but it is so close. The sagittal ridge on their neck, you know, going down their back a little bit, that seemed accurate. They seem muscular too, a little bit. Their neck are muscular and the tall grays. The older ones have modeled skin, very, very thin skin, and like I told you before, they have no subcutaneous fat. There's no padding on, you know, under their skin. Almost transparent. Yeah. Now, the younger ones have thicker skin, where you can see it's more even skin tone. There's not as much unevenness, like modeling, like the blue modeling. Sorry, I think I need a lot, isn't it? That's fine. You want to take a break? We can take a break. Oh, sure. Yeah, let's do that. There's something I think most people underestimate about being online and it's not just the big platforms, it's not just social media. It's all these companies. You've never heard of that are quietly collecting and selling your personal information. Your name, your phone number, your home address, past accounts, even people connected to you. And all of it gets compiled and sold through data brokers. The strange part is, you usually never see it happen. And that's why I used incogni. You see, incogni goes out and contacts these data brokers on your behalf and requests that your personal information be removed from their databases. Instead of you trying to figure out who has your data and sending dozens of requests manually, incogni handles it and keeps following up. It's one of those things that just runs in the background and gradually reduces how much of your information is out there. For me, it's less about being paranoid. Although, some things you should be paranoid about, but more about having some control over what's mine. If you want to do the same, go to incogni.com/area52 and use code Area52 to save 60% on an annual plant. Because your privacy should not be declassified. So these beings, you said they had like these large necks. And the photo that you showed me, I mean, you can see some bruising. And that's exactly what you kind of described. Right. The older ones are the taller ones. The younger ones are shorter. Are they the same? Yeah, the Cisalic was the same as the ones I saw in other facilities when they removed me from my home. But it means like the little ones, do they grow up to be? No, no, no, no. The short ones are different species. They're engineered. They're worker bees. Yeah. The tall ones are the natives from Zeta Ritekuli. And the little ones are made in their image. Right. They're recent. I mean, probably within just the last couple thousand years, they came in. But like, but if you go back to like Sumerian days, I don't think they had like the little grays back then. I think they, you know, what you had was like the upkalu and these other beings that were revered as gods. But I think they were emissaries for the grays going back. But that's a different theory. But yeah, so we're talking about the skin. The older ones, they have thinner skin and it's more translucent. So you can see that there's like a dense capillary bed under the skin. And that jibes with the detail that we learned from some reports that they excrete waste. And a lot of times abductees would smell horrible ammonia smell or a smell of like burnt rubber sulfur. I never smelled anything in my encounters. Maybe it's just they had such mastery over my sensory inputs that I don't remember anything like that. But I got a good look at their skin. The the young one that was on top of me and then the older ones, you know, that were really tall. But their their skin is designed for excreting waste through these capillaries. And I believe also that they may be absorbing nutrition, a liquid diet that they bathe in, that they cover themselves in. So they not only excrete, but it's a two-way street with these pores. I believe that, yes, rather than just everything I've read. I mean, not based on my encounters alone, based on everything I've read. I'm just like a jenga puzzle. I'm just putting everything together. I asked yesterday if you'd read the the file on Reddit where this my, I'm a molecular biologist came out. Have you read that since? I did let's not. Yeah, I did. Was there anything in there that you thought? Whoa, this is I think most of it jibes with with what I'm hypothesizing about their physiology, their biology. But I'm fascinated by them because they have such mastery. when they take you. They rob you of all agency. You can't really control your thoughts. You can't control your body. They can make you do things that you wouldn't want to do and they do things to you that you would never consent to. So for me, empowerment is aggressively trying to understand them. You know, what makes them tick? Why are they doing this? What's their agenda? I feel powerless if I don't ask these questions. If I'm not analytical about these things, I don't like them. I don't like them at all. I want them gone. But what can I do? Do you learn about them? Yeah, just learn about them. Everything I can. I think that they're trying to survive and I think they want to come here. I think they want to live here on our planet. And they can't do so without borrowing heavily from our gene pool. Let's get into that a little bit. Let's unpack that. There is, you know, if you look at the story that the molecular biologist on Reddit put out, a lot of that taps into their diet and how they digest food and how they produce waste. It is said, according to him, that with, you know, the fact that they don't have teeth, that they have these small openings as mouths, they have a separate trachea and esophagus, which by the way, genius, he said that they mainly would have to, you know, consume a liquid diet high in copper, because copper was found to be, you know, in really high content in the blood and you have a theory on this and it's not necessarily a theory that is, it's not, it's not of love and light. I'll tell you that. No, it's very dark. And I'm very discouraged by it. And this is in your, your recent book, The Blood Covenant. Yeah, it's called a blood covenant. The alien agenda behind civilization and human domestication. So the idea is that they drink blood or at least consume it. Yeah, not orally drink it, but yeah, consume it and they've been doing so for millennia and they, they used to do it wholesale. I, I started to notice as I was looking at ancient astronaut theory, because I got into that after 2020 when these things started happening to me, I became interested in the, in the show, Ancient Aliens, which a lot of times it can be such a silly show and they, they, they have ridiculous speculations sometimes, but they do a lot right and they, they do look and, and match up clues from across civilizations, across oceans all around the world and they ask a lot of intriguing questions that are worth asking. And so I, I started to look into that and I noticed, um, there were cultural clues linking all of the pyramid building societies around the world, whether you're talking about the, the American pyramids, you know, whether it's the pyramidal mounds of the Mississippians and Kehokie Illinois or the, you know, in Meso and America, like Mexico, you know, Guatemala, you know, these, the mines and the Aztecs, these pyramids. Um, and, and, and some of these pyramids have, coral areas, I, almost identical architecture like in Cambodia, you can compare a Cambodian pyramid against one in Guatemala and they're nearly identical. And, you know, 8,000 miles of ocean between them and, and we, we were supposedly not a ocean-faring species at the time. I don't know, this is probably like a third millennia, uh, BCE when, when a lot of these pyramids were being built. But anyway, um, I mean, I'm sure I don't get the dates right. But, uh, I, I, I just started to notice that there were, there was clues that seemed to connect the grays through emissaries to these pyramids. And by emissaries, you mean the gods that they worshipped. Right. Right. And, uh, and I noticed, you know, and I'm not the first one to notice this. I'm just putting it all together. I'm reading other people's stuff and, you know, none of this is original to me. Yeah. We're, we're, we're a theory crafting. Right. So, what I'm doing, what I did with the book was I took ancient astronaut theory, everything I've been reading, everything I've been putting together. And, uh, I basically assigned all of that to the grays of Zeta reticuli, whether, whether directly or through emissaries. But, I, I came to the thought that in the Americas, these pyramid building societies, they, they were highly a typo population opositive, like more than 73% of the, these populations, these American tribal populations were typo. And, uh, typo lacks the A and B antigens. And it's, uh, you know, easier in terms of tissue rejection. So, uh, oh, negative is the best donor, but opositive is far better than A or B or AB. And, uh, so I noticed every place there was, uh, human sacrifices, blood sacrifice rituals around the world typo, like that's significant. All right. That's something to look at. Uh, and, uh, now in the Middle East where they had animal sacrifices, but there you have high populations of A and B antigens, and not as much, oh, in the Middle East, you know, like the, you know, the Hebrews and that, you know, they're not typo. So, I'm like, okay, but they're, they, they revered cattle, but they didn't eat cattle. And, and I'm thinking, that's kind of interesting. I've stuck that in my back of my mind. And then, uh, the Egyptians revered cattle too, but they didn't really eat cattle. Uh, and, and then with, with the, in recent, you know, years with the cattle mutilations, like the work of Linda Moltenhow and stuff, these animals are completely ex-sanguinated, uh, when their carcasses are dumped and, and, and certain tissues are removed that appear to be with high-heat instruments, like a laser or some kind. Um, so I'm just, I wonder if there's a connection. And then that kind of led me to this idea of blood consumption. Like, why, why were the Mayans and the Aztecs giving blood to their gods? Why, why would God demand, you know, that you kill a certain number of people? And I realized, well, look, they, they all have like, they, they've got these pyramids. They have similar writings, similar agriculture, all these things. They have all these, the similar trappings of society, you know, that brings them together. And like, well, what if they were domesticated in order for, to more efficiently harvest them, uh, for their old blood? And, um, so that kind of led to the idea. And so I started to look, okay, so what, what if they do need to consume blood for nutrition? Um, so then I started to look at their, you know, their physiology, their biology. I'm, I'm not a biochemist. I'm not a, what's your blood type? Uh, I think I may be positive. Yeah. Uh, they seem to like A and B for breeding and O for consumption. So if you're type O or O negative, uh, and you're in the wilderness camping alone in, in UFO hotspots, you might disappear and never come back. That's, uh, yeah. It's a creepy thought. Yeah, it is kind of, but, uh, it's just a theory. And so how does, so okay, they're consuming bovine blood because of the close genetic resemblance to human blood? I believe what they're doing is because these days, they can't just demand, okay, we need 200 people's worth of blood. You know, they, they can't go to the mayas or the Aztecs anymore and say, give us blood. Right. You know, in exchange for favors. Uh, they can't do that in mass anymore. I think what happened was maybe they were being overharvested at the time, uh, back when the Mayans just abandoned their cities overnight. That could be because they were being overharvested and they freaked them out. And there was, the blood covenant wasn't worth the exchange anymore. So they abandoned these cities that they were inspired to create, uh, just a theory. It's wild. Right. It is wild. It's, uh, you know, you mentioned this too last night, but it's the closest thing to like vampiric folklore that we have. Right. Well, they can't be in sunlight. They have very thin skin with the dense capillary bed right under this translucent skin. They would burn horribly in sunlight. So you'll never see a tall gray out in the sunshine. Um, the, the small, the short gray is a little worker bees. They have a little bit of padding under their skin and a little bit of subcutaneous fat. They have the ability to be in sunlight for short periods. Not as long as you were. I could like a, like a familiar. Yeah. They're, but they're, they're able to, to tolerate our biosphere better. And I think they're engineered that way. That way. In order to do the home invasions and take people like me out of my bed. So what's your best theory on why it is there? are here because you know I'm sure there's it's nutrition elsewhere. What's what's what's a special about here? Why do you think the Zeta's come here? It's a huge it's a huge conversation under itself, but I'll give you the cliff notes. I think that they I think that their planet is smaller than earth. That's why they're taller. And if you look at their their wouldn't that make them smaller? No, they lower gravity. Lower gravity, but if you put a shark in like an aquarium, the shark is smaller. Do you know what I mean? Like if the environment is less conducive to having large things on it, you know what I mean? Wouldn't that make them? I don't think no because I mean you're there's still a lot of surface area. Sure. On a planet bigger than Mars. Sure, on earth is still a lot of surface area, but it's a so they likely come from a lighter gravity environment. So they're taller or more oxygen. Now why do they have these big black eyes with these black lenses over their eyes? And you know why why are they so pale and can't be out in sunlight? Well probably because they're adapted to be indoors or underground. And why would they be underground? Well, what if they lost their magnetic field because their planet is smaller than earth that may have cooled off a long time ago. They might have lost their magnetic field and subject to cosmic and solar radiation on their planet. So they might have had to adapted to underground conditions. Over time, so over time they optimized their genetics to be in a different type of biosphere underground. So but then I'm thinking, okay, well, if they're adapted for living underground on their own planet, why are they coming here? Well, what if what if there's there's some other clues that really intrigued me related to the loss of their magnetic field? Now do you remember what Bob Lazar said when he read these briefing papers at S4? Containers. Right. That the military reported that the gray is considered humans as containers and we were given religion so that we wouldn't damage the containers. And he speculated, but he doesn't really stand beside this firmly, like, but he speculated, well, maybe they meant containers of souls, you know, or containers of blood since they consumed blood, but they could grow a blood factory or something if they, that's what I would assume, too. Yeah, you can just find some other means of nutrition. Right. But so, right, exactly. So I'm thinking, well, it has to be more about the souls. Okay. So what's so great about our planet? Well, we still have a magnetic field. Well, what if? Now think about this. When a person is living, they have an active nervous system with electrical activity. What if that is the anchor, like a Faraday cage, like an electrical anchor that keeps a soul in the body. And when you die, your nervous system, just the electrical activity ceases and then the soul just escapes the body and goes somewhere. Well, where's it going to go? If it needs to be in some kind of an EM field or electrical activity around it, well, wouldn't it naturally go into the Earth's magnetic field? Wouldn't that be like what we call heaven or the light at the end of the tunnel? Maybe that's the bio plasma, you know, of the Earth's magnetic field. So what if it's like alive with consciousness as like a wave station between incarnations? Right. So what if, let's just say for the sake of argument that that is a thing that that that mechanism actually exists? So what would happen on their planet after they lost their magnetic field? The other souls would just go out into the ether. Right. So you would need to be able to develop the ability to trap it to trap it and transfer it into a new cloned body because they're obviously they don't they don't reproduce sexually. So you have to you have to be able to either move their soul from a dying body into a new cloned body. And some some author researchers have spoken to abductees who have witnessed supposedly allegedly soul transfer, soul transfer. Right. So what if they had the tons along even talked about that at one point? Right. Now I know nothing about that. Yeah. But I'm just taking that as a data point. Yeah, we're lower mashing. We're taking we're taking, you know, things that we're very crafting. I like it. Right. So so what I'm suggesting is that what if they were losing souls to migration? What if the souls that every time a grade died, a tall grade died? Its soul couldn't enter the magnetic field. It was two week ago. It was gone. What if it migrated over to earth? And what if most of their souls, so every time one of you know, they would try to bring to life one of their their clones from its chamber or whatever they grow it in, just ate it in. What if it doesn't achieve consciousness because there's no soul to enter it? And so their population dwindled and they had to come here in order to like reclaim what they lost to migration. What if those souls migrated to the earth? To the closest nearest magnetosphere? Now this is the most woozed stuff you're ever sure because I like to stay grounded in scientific. I like this theory. I think it's fine. So are you saying that if someone gave birth in the ISS, it would be like a stillborn soulless child? Well, no, the souls available on the ISS because there's the magnetic field is still around. And what if you were like, it's still behind the moon? No, I don't think that would hurt it because it's still like. It's so close enough in proximity. But but if there is a point in space where you get to, if you're talking 39 and a half light years, yeah, yeah, maybe, maybe distance becomes an issue. Again, this is just yeah, sure, sure. I'm just saying this guy's speculation. I'm not an expert on the grays. I'm trying to become one. Yeah, of course. But I'm, but I'm with you. Okay, so let's say now that let's say this is real, they lose their magnetosphere. They lose their ability to incarnate and they have to sort of manually transfer souls. And it sounds really sad and desperate. That's why I said they're desperate. Yeah. And you know, to come here. And then so what is the purpose of the hybridization in that case? Well, they don't trust us. Now, if you'll remember what what the straeber said, what he was told by the grays is that vocal or voiced sentient species don't ask for long. Yeah, because we lack a deeper empathy that is necessary to avoid self-destructive behaviors like our wars and and are ever increasingly powerful weapons like nuclear weaponry. So so he was told that, you know, only only the telepathic species have a chance to have a long legacy. So I think that we have been judged as as primitive. Well, not harmful. Like not viable for for the long term. I say, yeah, okay. So therefore not worth an investment worthy of replacement. I think homo sapiens will be replaced by this new hybrid species that the grays are creating. The grays are planning their own extinction. They know that they can't be a parasitic blood-consuming species, you know, forever. And and they can't just live underground forever. And they I think they're they're creating a species that can live on the surface biosphere, you know, be exposed to the sunlight, be exposed to the pathogens by becoming mostly human themselves. So you know how we're separated by the chimpanzees by only like one and a half percent of our of our DNA, you know, chimpanzees share 98 and a half percent of the same DNA. Or maybe it's 97. I'm not sure exactly the number, but they're mostly human. So it's just that that last little bit, the few percentage of DNA makes us what we are makes all the difference. So there there are genetic cousins as a result of that close association. Whereas a banana only has 50 percent of our DNA. That's crazy. It's pretty close. It is. I know a few bananas. Yeah. I mean, some of our thoughts about eating that banana, it's candle work. So so the idea is that they're they're planning their own extinction by merging with us. And when the last tolerate dies out, you know, then that'll be it. How do the how do the Nordics fit into this or not even just the Nordics, but how do the human looking hybrids? Because if you look at David Jacobs' work, which you cite in your book, you know, David was a firm believer through his studies of hypnotic regression that there was a transitional, there was multiple, I think five transitional phases between a human and the hubrid, which is the human hybrid that looks identical. And as it nears, the heubritic gets more and more, looks more and more and starts acting more and more like a human. But at first you have these egg-headed, genderless, like weird, and there's this whole kind of crude and homely version of a human between these two. What's going on there? Where are they trying to, what's your best guess is why they're trying to look like us? What if the grays were anticipating the loss of their world as their magnetic field got weaker and weaker, and they knew about the problem with the sole bleed-off and migration, and what if they were preparing for that over the long term? So they come to Earth, they find homo erectus and start to modify it. What if they were trying to create a platform that would be more suitable for hybridization with? So it was a long game. So what if they started to, you know, homo erectus and then it becomes, you know, a newer species until they get to sapiens? So now, homo sapiens is finally a platform upon which they can do the final change and blend with us, merge, converge with us. And then homo sapiens, you know, already are birth rates are declining all over the world. You know, I think our population will contract, but at some point we are going to be swept aside. It's just a theory. Yeah. I mean, according to many experiencers and devotees, it seems to be the case as well. Like, there are a lot of people who go on board these craft and who are, you know, allegedly apparently talking to these entities who tell them things like, you are part of a chosen group, your time will come soon. You're doing good work and you'll be rewarded when this all happens. Like all of this sort of foreshadowing and this apocalyptic talk and imagery that's sent to, were you ever given, I know you talk about it a little bit in the book, but at one point, you were told, I think, by one of the tall grays to put away the nukes, like we have to put away the nukes. Yeah. There was a tall gray and we were walking side by side. I was completely confused and out of it. And I actually argued with him. He said, you have to get rid of your nuclear weapons. And I don't, I didn't know the context why he would say that to me. And I was only conscious for 25 seconds, but I argued with him. I said, well, we'd be giving up our strategic, you know, our mutual deterrent. You know, so we can't just give it up, you know, at least not, you know, unilaterally. We can't do that, but as a species, we might have a chance to do that actually once AI and robotics are able to create enough abundance for everybody that nations don't have to compete for resources against each other. We might have an opportunity to get rid of our mutual deterrence at that point. So long as we have like really good cybersecurity and we can keep AI's from being corrupted by foreign nations, but I don't think they have faith in us and I think they're phasing us out. And I think it's soon but why I don't want to be a doomsayer, I'm not saying the end is near. I'm not on a street corner with a sign. No, but why what I'm asking is like clearly they have the ability to intervene and stop us from doing whatever. If they can control you and do, you know, make you do horrible things or do unspeakable things to you without your consent, then they can make you do anything. And so the argument always stands, why wouldn't they just intervene? Why wouldn't they just shut up? Because I think they're desperate. Now, you brought up the Nordics. There's a legend that said that Eisenhower was offered two deals. One from the grays that said, you know, in exchange for permission to abduct humans and cattle from a set list, you know, which I don't think they stuck to that list at all. But in exchange for the right to abduct human and cattle within the United States, we will provide the technology to the military. So there was that deal. And then there's a story about how the Nordics were offering to, we'll get rid of the grays for you. You know, they're no good, you know, they're not good for you people, but we can help you achieve world peace, but it would come with, like, less freedom. Yeah. Yeah. Put away the next. Right. I don't know much about that story. I didn't. And we were very trigger happy and during that time. I mean, if ever there was a time where we wouldn't have given up nukes, it was a cold war. Like, I mean, worst time to offer up a deal like that if you're the Nordics, by the way. Like wait a few decades, because at that point, you know, we had just discovered the atomic bomb. And we had just discovered that other countries are also making the atomic bomb. Not a time to put down the nukes. What if the Nordics have continued to warn us about the grays? We saw that that crop circle, the Crabwood crop circle in 2002. Yeah. Beware of the Zetas. Right. We had an image, and you could put this in post-production, but it was an image of like a halftone image of a tall gray face. And there was like this circular binary message and the Orion star system. Right. And they were warning us, you know, you know, basically calling them liars. Beware of bears of false truth or false gifts. False gifts, and then, yeah, don't trust the Zetas or something. Beware of the Zetas or-- Yeah. But, you know, much pain, but still time, I mean, that was part of it. So it was a warning saying it's not too late, but maybe we've just ignored it too long. But now, I've been hearing, now ever since I reported my case to Mufon, I've kind of cozyed up with the Illinois Mufon people, and I've attended some of their meetings. And I've even been to this symposium last year, and I plan to go this year. But I heard how the military is now actively shooting down little scout crafts that fly over our airspace using microwaves, high-powered microwaves. They discovered in the '40s and it said that the Roswell crash may have been caused when two discs passed too close to a high-powered radar station. And the thought is that these high-powered microwaves from the radar interrupt the flight envelope, the field propulsion around their craft, and it would veer off course and crash into something. If that's true-- Sure. No, I'm not an insider, but if that's true, then they may have since developed more directed energy weapons designed to directly pull down these smaller scout craft and fill their coffers. They're secret bases. They're S4s. Mm-hmm. Yeah, I'm sure that's not the only base like that. No, definitely not. You know, a friend of ours here, UAP Gurb, he's pretty much on top of anything and everything regarding, you know, Dums across the country. So let's talk about Dums for a second, deep underground military bases, but not only military, not only human military, but what seems to be, you know, according to one of the messages you've received, that there are these cave systems, that there are these cavernous systems on Earth filled with life. Like that's where they live. I became frustrated. We hadn't yet addressed, you know, the offspring that they were creating from my genes. But I was shown images on a wall of like probably 20 or more of my offspring of various ages from, you know, infancy to adulthood. And I was also shown a small baby during an encounter crawling on a metal table and they said, he's yours, but he has a genetic problem and we need, you know, you're here to provide us with tissues that we need to correct the problem. So anyway, I was upset with them because the baby that they showed me, I suspected, was a stolen pregnancy from a relationship I had had back in 22 and I was, I was rather emotional. What do you mean by stolen pregnancy? Can you clarify? I had a girlfriend that we conceived a child. she lost the pregnancy in her night. through 10th week, the child would have been born on or around my birthday in January of 2023. And then we'd broken up since then. You believed the child that you were shown to be that baby? The only reason why I suspect it, I don't know it, is that I was shown the baby in June of 2023 and it was six or seven months old. So if they had taken the child from her womb and if they had artificially gestated it, and it was born on or around January of 23, then it was the right age to have been hers in mind. Did you know the sex of the baby? Well, it was mine. He told me. Oh, it was a boy while being pregnant. Oh, no, no, no. It was only nine or ten weeks. So we didn't I think determine the gender. Oh, is it 12 weeks, read a term or nine weeks, but I mean, we didn't. Yeah, sure. We didn't do that. Gotcha. You know, but when she miscarried the child, the fluid fill tack and the embryo, the embryo wasn't in the tissues that were passed. Visiting the obstetrician, they determined there was nothing left in the uterus. She was healthy, but they had determined that she was pregnant. So it's a suspicion. It's it goes pregnancy, type. Yeah. The same thing happened to my mother. She wasn't presented with a strange child, but she had a miscarriage before I was conceived. In early 1968, she had a miscarriage. And again, the fetus was missing from that. So maybe that was related because she was that was a period of time when she sure was likely being visited. So again, I don't know this. Yeah. No, you only got what you what you remember. Yeah. So so this baby's on on this medical table. Yeah. And he said he's yours, but he has a genetic problem and you're here to give us the tissues. We need to correct it. And then I was only conscious for 35 seconds. So I mean, just very short period of time, but I was I woke up in a standing position. And there was this very tall man. I saw him as a man, but later on I realized I was a tall gray, but he was like seven and a half feet tall. And there's very few people, you know, outside of professional sports that are that tall. But I thought he was an air traffic control personnel person. And we were in a round room circumference by vertically short windows that were very long all around us. And I would say the room was about 50 to 60 feet in diameter. It was a round room. A round room. I thought it was an air traffic control tower. I mean, that was in the entransment made me think it was something familiar, but it was could have been a craft. It could have been a UFO, because it didn't look like normally like if I'm in one of their facilities, I'm in a square room with gray walls. So this wasn't like that. This this was very much it could have been a craft, you know, a large UFO. And then what did they show you? After that was there they just showed me the child and then and then I went unconscious. But so oh, you're talking about later. So I asked them where where are my my children my offspring where they've been capped? Where do you keep them? And they showed me a gray wall. And the wall became a view screen. It was just a gray metallic pewter gray wall. Everything. That's why I think that they're they're monochromatic with their vision. They don't they don't have any colors. The only colors I've seen are gray, white, and black in any other facilities. So so they became a screen and there was a map and and it showed the the United States the 48 contiguous states with the state division lines drawn in. I found that very surprising, but maybe that was for my benefit. And then they zoomed in on Illinois and surrounding areas. And I could see under the surface of this map. Now it was a monochromatic map. It was very gray, you know, and it was like a line art. And but it was 3D. So I saw a caverns under eastern Illinois. At the northern end they were about even with the bottom tip of Lake Michigan. And at the southern end they were as far south as Peoria, Illinois. And I've mapped out on my book website the counties that are over top these areas. And I estimate based on the scale that the caverns were there so there's three caverns. There was two parallel to one another at the same depth and one between them deeper down. And so the two top caverns were about a third of a mile underground which with the geothermal gradient would probably put it about 7580 degrees Fahrenheit. Comfortable for human habitation. And then below that I'd say close to half a mile underground. So you had the three. And they almost looked like bananas because they looked like rounded triangles the way that they're constructed. And at the southern ends they sloped downward. And I was thinking about that. I'm like, well, that kind of makes sense because you could have groundwater run off, you know, within the caverns with the sloping downward. And also heavier gases like CO2 would sink down to that. So you have better airflow circulation within the caverns. I fed the design of the caverns into CHEPPT and it did forensic analysis and it told me that's actually a good design for caverns. And then I said, okay, well, is there anything in the geological record that would prove that they're not there? And it didn't find anything. It said, well, there's some oil production south of there in further down south in Southern Illinois. But there's no known caverns. But the type of bedrock in that area is ideal for caverns. It said that it's primarily dullestone, which is in dolomite. It's a lime stone that's high in magnesium. So it's very strong. So it can support caverns. And that kind of stone has been used for countertops. Well, sure. But I'm talking about underground installations, like walls and stuff. Yeah. So so there's yeah. So so when I was looking at that, I also I also realized that Illinois is geologically very stable. There's not a lot of earthquake activity. You have the new madrid fault not too far away, but it it's been pretty quiet. Have you visited that area or do you plan on visiting that area? Well, it's I've driven over that area several times. But but another advantage that it's close to a freshwater source. Sure. Lake Michigan. Yeah. Great place to park a vehicle as well. Yeah. Right. I mean, we hear so many stories of like these things coming out of lakes. Yeah. Especially like Michigan being a massive lake itself. I mean, there might be bases under the lake too. That's what I'm saying. But oh, they found they found a stone hedge in Lake Michigan under a traverse bay. Okay. Michigan. Yeah. There you go. I mean, that's that's really interesting. I'd be I'd be interested to see the correlation with the per capita amount of abductions or sightings or experiences in that specific area versus the surrounding areas. If there's anyone in that area listening to this right now, which is exactly what area? This is Eastern Illinois Eastern Illinois running parallel to the Indiana border, just west of the Indiana border. So if you're from that area, comment below. Let me know if you've had any run-ins. I'd be I'd be curious. Moofon has an app, I think, or there's an app that that has like a little dots on the ass of UFO sightings. Yeah, but there's a lot of people out there that don't reach out to me. It's probably more people than do. Yeah, you're sure. But you'd be surprised at the at some of the comments, you know, people through anonymity can just come out and say, you know, well, actually there is something going on there or we did have a sighting in a in a lake. I would I would love to have those caverns just proven or proven. Sure, yeah. I just wanted to. I'm creeped out by the thought that there may be tens of thousands of hybrids living underground beneath our feet and Illinois. What do these hybrids look like? Do you think? I don't know. I can't I can I anytime. You're like us. I think they're mostly human. Yeah. Um, you know, maybe they have slightly bigger eyes, but um, if they're bred for the surface, I don't think they'd be given much bigger eyes than we have. Yeah, they'd be similar to us. Right. Because you'd want the, you know, the shielding, you know, you want the brow ridge and like we have and and you'd want, uh, you'd want the shielding from from sunlight. And yeah. So, uh, I think they would be similar, but the way they would differ is they would have larger heads, larger craniums, and neurology more closely reflecting that of the tall grades because you'd want the tall because they would want them to be telepathic because like they said to Whitley Strieber, they don't believe that vocal or voiced sentient species can last very long. So these may not even be capable of human speeches, we know it. Or maybe they can, maybe they could do both, but I have a feeling, um, you know, if you ever meet one, that it would be telepathic. Do you have any plans on going out there and doing some research for yourself? Yeah, let me, let me get a oil drilling crew and we're not oil drilling, but I mean, we have to find a cavern down there. We have technology. Oh, well, yeah, but um, it, I asked Chet GPT what it would take to detect or map those caverns. Because they're so far down, right? It would, it would cost millions of dollars. Significant, yeah, technology. I mean, you could detect it. Voids down there probably for less money, but if you want to map the whole thing, it would cost a lot of money. So you'd need somebody like Elon Musk who could just write a check and not miss the money at all. Well, he's boring tunnels right now as we speak. Yeah, right. Ever now, he might come across one of these things eventually. Well, yeah, don't, don't bore a tunnel in an Eastern Illinois. You might or do that. Just be ready for anything. I mean, it would, I think that would be disclosure is Elon Musk boring into a hybrid facility. I think that's how we get disclosure. But I was, I was nervous to talk about the caverns when I first started writing the book for fear of disclosure for fear of like, no, for fear of like, well, you know, if there's caverns or if there isn't caverns under Eastern Illinois, that's testable, right? Yeah. So if somebody were to take me seriously enough to investigate, that's testable and wouldn't they throw out my whole story if one aspect of the story. So I, I hesitated, but I'm like, you know what? I'm just going to tell it all. You know, I'm just going to tell everything I saw, everything I counter, but I'm going to stay in my lane. If, if I have a theory or an idea about something, I'm not going to say I'm the expert and, and this is how it is. I'm going to tell you, all right, this is just a theory. This is just ideas that I've, I've plucked and I've put together because I think it could be this way. But in terms of like what I firmly believe, I'm going to stay in my lane and I'm going to stick to what I encountered, what I experienced, which you believe is the gray Zadas. Yeah. Is there, do you leave any room in your mind whatsoever for the implication that they may be just that the phenomenon might be something totally different, but that it appears to you in this way. Is there, is there any of that that you reserve because there is, there's so many stories that tell a different story slightly of the, whether it's the appearance of the creatures or whether it's, you know, the motives are similar. But I mean, I mean, there's been encounters with other species, you know, there's the mantis, even the mantid beings, even among the grays, like even if you look at, well, there's even Barney Hill, who you mentioned earlier, right. It's different. They have different slit like eyes and there's a different, well, there's different, I believe that the Zadagrae's seeded other gray species on other planets. I see. And so you have the big nose grays, Linda Holmulten, how talked about this in documentary? I saw a Samarian guy. Right. The big nose grays are the ones behind the Samarian gods. I think they were engineering MS series. But I think that the Zadagrae's were the puppet masters for these others. So you have the Gleesee grays, the ones from the, I don't know, fun pronouncing it right. Gleesee or Gleesa that look, they have the epicanthic eye fold that makes them look almost Asian. Right. Yeah, the ones in Aztec. Okay. But they had little noses too. Yeah. So, so there's, there's different species of grays. And I don't discount other people seeing those, but I didn't see those types. Yeah. I didn't see a mantid being. I didn't see any reptins. But there was one type of creature that I perceived to be a doctor on one of their facilities. And I woke up in a standing position in a gray room. And there was a cylinder in the middle of the room from the Florida to ceiling connecting. And there was like a eight or nine foot tall doorway and it was brightly lit from inside. But the room itself was dark. And there was a dozen or 18. I don't know how many tall grays, very tall grays, like 70 feet tall. In the back of the room, observing me interacting with what I thought was a doctor. Now, it was a much smaller creature, but it wasn't a short gray. It wasn't a skinny Bob. It was something else. It had darker skin. I can't remember the color. I can't remember his face because it was some kind of screen memory where I kept trying to see it as human it. But it appeared like a frog. So, so my brains thinking, well, what human looks like a frog. And so I thought of the actor Wallace Sean inconceivable. I'm not going to pull him up. No, by the way, poor Wallace. I love that guy. I love. No, he's great. I mean, he's one of my favorites, but so I am like, okay, well, it's obviously not him. But this thing had big cheeks and big bulb of size and kind of a punch belly, like sticking out. Not unlike what you didn't believe. He described right. So, and it had very long fingers with like pads on the ends. And it was I woke up in a standing position and the thing was cupping my testicles. I was naked. And I was upset because when he touched me down there, I felt like ways of like electricity moving up into my kidneys. And it was uncomfortable. And I don't know what he was interested in, but he was checking me out, like diagnosing something. And then I'm like, why are you touching me down there? I was like, given a hard time, I was being belligerent, but I was kind of half out of it too. I was just annoyed. I don't like being woken up and taken out of my bed and showing up in some strange place. You know, I'm not going to be nice to you. So I was belligerent, being belligerent toward this thing. And it stood up and walked and and toward this cylinder in the middle of the room and went into the lighted door. And I was standing there and I was looking and the grays are still the tall grays are still watching me just kind of like chatting amongst themselves. And I could hear their telepathy between them. It was a little bit annoying, but I ignored it for a while. And then this creature came out again, but I perceived it to be a different doctor. Like maybe that one got sick of me, you know, bashing it. So I thought it was a different doctor so that I'm like, oh yeah, that other doctor, he was like touching my balls and he was, I don't know why I was talking. I was so focused on that, you know, like because it was a violation and I didn't make it. And so he led me to these benches. Like he was sitting on a bench and I was standing near the other bench originally, but he made me sit down in the bench. And then he had these very long spindly arms. And he stuck it on my abdomen. And he was kind of moving his hands up and down. And he said, you have an enemy inside you, but you're going to feel better in a few days. And I didn't understand what he meant. But while he was talking to me, and I was trying to like talk back to him. And those tall grays in the background, they were, they were, you know, it was like gibberish to me. I didn't understand what they were saying to each other, but there was more than a dozen voices all at the same time. And I was getting upset with them because their telepathy was interfering with, you know, I've, but I was vocally trying to talk to this doctor. Now I wasn't trying to use telepathy with him. I was vocally talking to him, but I could hear them perfectly. So I got annoyed with them. And I'm like, I did this like, shut up, go away. And they all shut up at the same time simultaneously, like, like a switch had gone off. And then they turned around, they're backs to me. And they went further back against the wall, deeper into the shadows where I couldn't see them. And then I could see their shoulders rotating just enough that I knew that they were turning back around to look at me. But they were observing, why were they there? Why would all of these people take time out of whatever they're doing in this facility to sit here and gawk at me, naked with this doctor thing? I didn't understand why, like, why am I so interesting? Uncroccable. There's no way, like, I think instantly when I hear that of like what the feeling would be like pulling a fish out of water, you know, like in the fish go, what is all this? What is all this? And why are they looking at me? You know, like, what's so interesting that they have to stand where they like student doctors, you know, observing. But anyway, when I woke up, because after after he said that thing to me and after I shoot off those other people, I went unconscious. And then when I woke up, I was back at home, I was in my bed. And suddenly my gird was gone. And these sharp pains that I used to have in my stomach were gone. And I'm like, there's no pressure. There's no pain. I push on my belly. It's gone. And, but he said I had an enemy inside of me. When he said it originally, I thought he said an enemy, I'm like, what's seer? Like an enemy. Yeah, an enemy. I'm like, because it could just the way the syllables came out, and what are you talking about, C-ergin? And then I replayed what he said, and I might, oh, enemy, okay. So I woke up, and I felt better. Instantly, I had the gird for years, and earlier that year, or actually the previous, I started having like really sharp stomach pains the same time my girlfriend was having them. Well, hers ended up being a type of cancer that, you know, she had treated, and she's fine. But so it made me think, well, did I have stomach cancer? Or cancer somewhere else in my gut? Yeah, some type of. But when he was done touching my abdomen, he slumped, he clapsed into his chair, and he slumped, and he had this saddest look on his face, like he was completely exhausted. I thought maybe I was just insulting him so much, and just giving him such a hard time that he was, you know, just like sad, but, or maybe because he was healing me in some way. Just depleted. I depleted him, because it was a bad enough problem. Maybe I had some kind of cancer, and he took care of it, because he called it an enemy inside me. I don't, maybe he lacked the vocabulary to call it anything else. You know, maybe he wasn't the native English speaker, and they have the technology to think whatever they think, and then it's perceived on my end as English. Yeah, it's translated with your mind. I don't know how. Yeah, I'm not even going to speculate. Yeah, or maybe he's like some alien witch doctor. Yeah, I don't know, but it was a different kind of creature, and I can't remember its face. That's the only other, like you never met any mantids, never any humanoids, never any half breeds, or nothing like that. Yeah, wow. Just just the two types of grays, I've only remembered. What was the last experience you had? March of 2024. Whoa, that's almost two years ago, exactly. Yeah, it was, I went to bed, having had a couple of whiskies. I had two cocktails. They were called old fashions. You know, it's got simple syrup in it, and some cherry juice, and bidders, and I like to smoke them with oak wood. I would have, back then, I would have a drink maybe once a week on a weekend, or if I really was enjoying the drink, I might make myself a second one because I was enjoying that, that slight buzz, then just watching a movie and relaxing. Don't have to drive, don't have to be anywhere, just so I'd have a second one. Sure, and so I went to bed, a little happy, a little inebriated, and fell asleep right away, and I woke up, and I was in an uncharacteristically brightly lit white room, white, which is weird, normally it's gray. And I was sitting on a like a reclined cushioned, I'd say a chair of some kind, and I was surrounded by three tall grays, and the two that were closest to me were talking amongst themselves, but I couldn't understand. It was like gibberish to me, and then they were trying to talk to me. They looked directly at me, and they said something. I couldn't understand it, but then finally, some words came through that I could understand it, and it was you shouldn't drink alcohol. And I was insulted by that because it's not like I'm an addict or an alcoholic. I have one drink a week, sometimes two weeks goes by, three weeks, and then I'll have another one. It's like that. So I was insulted that they would tell me what to do, I don't like being told what to do. I don't even like bosses telling me what to do. Yeah. So I swore at them. I said, "FU, you know, I haven't had a drink in two weeks since that Thursday, two weeks ago." And I think they didn't like that. I said that, and they kind of looked at themselves, and they looked back at me, and then I went unconscious. And in the next, in suing few weeks, I decided to make myself another drink, and I made the same cocktail, the same type of old fashioned. And when I went to drink it, I hated it. It tasted off. It tasted weird. I just didn't like it. And I felt I look at the drink like it would be trade me in some way. Like, what's with you? And ever since then, I've lost any desire whatsoever to ever relax using alcohol. It's gone. It's just gone. And now, if I'm with friends or family, and we're having pasta, and there's red wine being passed around, I'll have a glass, but I don't like the feeling of a buzz anymore. I don't even like it. Even that relaxed feeling, I feel like I've completely lost my desire for that, and I used to love it. I mean, if they're harvesting you in any capacity, I mean, it is in their best interest to have you stop drinking, right? Right. I guess, right. And maybe it was contributing to my ill gut health. Right. Which they've just fixed. Right. We paid a lot of money for this daily and witch doctor. Right. So you had some type of intergalactic intervention. That's funny way to put it. I mean, are you? And that's that's two years ago. And since then, you've just not even nothing. Yeah. I had during 2024, I had a few impressions where I might have had an encounter that I'd before, but I had no memory of it. Yeah. Okay. It was just an impression. Could you talk about these waves of 20 years, four years? Yeah, four years. Are you, you feel like this is the end of that four year interim, that term? Yeah, 2020. So it started in 2020 that I'm aware of. Yeah. And then it ended in 2024. So I don't expect them back for another 18 years. If they come back, I mean, what's my, would I still be a viable donor in my 70s? Or maybe they're just looking to see what happens, you know, to their experiment. What in 18 years time? You're going to think of a, you're going to think of something to write down on a poster. What's that going to be? What are you going to write down on that poster? Fuck off. Let me enjoy it all that. I've heard it. I'm just going to see F-5. Yeah, all right. Fair enough. No, I want nothing to do with them. I'm not even curious, well, I'm still curious about them because I feel like my only form of empowerment in the face of complete loss of agency that they have the ability to impose upon people like me. My only, my only power, empowerment in this is talking about it. And, and trying to understand them as, as completely as possible. And that's why I was so interested in, and ancient astronaut theory. You know, you know, I understand people can make fun of that show, ancient aliens. I still love the show because there's a lot that they do write. Yeah, there's a lot to love there. Yeah, but anytime they start talking about could there be some kind of portal, you know, this, there's a little cut in the rock and they're calling it a portal like, give me a break. All right, but they still get a lot right. And I still love the show. And I was so happy that I got to be on the show last season. That was so cool. Even though they, they covered like 2% of my story. I mean, there's so much I haven't even told you yet, but it's, it's okay. I mean, there's, there's, it's everything is in the book. I'm, I'm saving one thing for myself that I did not put in the book because it was too disturbing for me. But we'll, we'll do the arm surgery. We didn't talk about that. Oh, yeah. Sure. Yeah. Let's talk about it. All right. So in 2022, I think it was July. I forget I put it in the book, but even that estimate of the time estimate is in a might be an approximation because I did my best to reconstruct which dates happen with which encounters. I did my best. So if some of them are off, I, you know, I did my best. But I became aware of pain in my left arm and my sleep. It was a black sleep. And I wasn't dreaming. There was no imagery in the sleep. And I became aware of pain in my left arm. It was excruciating. It was like a dull ache capped off by a sharp pain like, like you cut yourself that kind of a sharp pain combined with a really dull ache. And so I opened my eyes because the pain was so bad. And the first thing I noticed that I was in my bedroom. And I look at my feet and I noticed something on a metal table, a pewter gray metal table. It was about this much wider than me. And I'd say it was about six feet five inches long. So it's longer than I was tall and fit for a human. Yeah, exactly. And I looked down. Yeah, I noticed so I knew I wasn't in my room. And I was in this strange gray facility. And I looked down at my arm and it's missing from above the elbow, just clean off gone. But the strangest thing was that there was no blood on the table next to me next to my body. Not a see. will drop a blood was next to me. And I, as entranced as I was and as muted as my senses were, the pain was excruciating. But the fear response that you would naturally have in such an instance was still gone. I didn't have a fear response. But I had like a restrained panic to awareness. It's hard to describe like this, this, this, this can't be real. Like a dissociation. Like I was dissociated, you know, with, with other encounters. And so I looked like I could move my head. Again, like in other encounters where I was paralyzed, I could move my head, but not my body. And I looked to my left and further like, I'd say about five feet away from the, maybe six feet away from the table I was laying on was a metal cart. I didn't see any wheels or anything. I just, it was a single shaft holding in the center of a, of a metal table. And I assume it was a cart. It could have been just a table. I don't know, I don't know if it was mobile. But my arm was on there. And I could see the humorous bones sticking out from the meat. And there was no blood, not a drop of blood wasted around, you know, on that cart around the arm. And there wasn't even a drop of blood like on, on the tissue surrounding the cut. It was perfect. It was perfect. It was like butchered meat. Like you'd blood the thing dry before you cut it open. And I mean, that was my meat. I was looking at freshly butchered meat. It was like, you know, I know sounds ridiculous to say it that way. But I just couldn't process what I was seeing. And it hurt so bad. And I tried to turn my head to the right. And I had difficulty doing that. I lost consciousness. But I was aware that there was something to the right of me, somebody, something. There was movement to the right of me. And it was approaching the table when I passed out again. I woke up and I was back in my bed at home. And my arm was killing me. And the first thing, I looked down, it's there. Like, okay, why is it hurt so bad? And I look and there's no sutures, there's no scarring, nothing. But my elbow is kind of swollen. And like, all right, that hurts. And then I got up, well, maybe I'll take a hot shower and it'll feel better. You know, it'll loosen up or something. I take a hot shower, it just gets worse. And within an hour, it's frozen solid at a 90 degree bend. I couldn't move my elbow for an entire month. But then the interesting thing was that, you know, normally how they come every four to six weeks, I told you about that. Well, they came exactly one week later. And I woke up and I, again, I wasn't in my room. I was laying on a cushion's surface. And somebody was holding my hand, my right hand, and my left hand arm was was stretched out to the left. I'm in an illustration of this. A tall gray was bending over that side, the left side of my bed, my bed, I say my bed, but it was like the cushion. It was covered in like a tight white canvas, like a soft white canvas. It was the closest I could describe it. It wasn't like sheets. There was no top sheet or it was just a just a fabric cover of some kind, tight like it was part of the cushion. And so this tall gray was leaning over that side of the bed or cushion. And he had, it was running his hands up and down the length of my arm. And he was focusing mostly over the elbow. Excuse me. And while he was doing that, I was being distracted by somebody holding my right hand. And I look and I noticed a pair of feet that came only down to my knees. That was kind of weird. And then I looked to the left and I perceived it to be a young woman or maybe a young girl holding my hand. And she said, she looked at me, but it was a short gray. And she said, do you have something you want to tell me? I couldn't think of anything. I was confused by the question. And I said, no, I think I said something like, I thought she was flirting with me. So I said something like, well, I'm not married or anything. Strange thing to say, but I was so out of it. I was so confused. And then I went unconscious. And then I woke up. I was back at home again. And then a week later, another encounter where I woke up in a standing position again in a gray room. And there was a very tall gray standing over me. And I was on steady on my feet because I just became conscious in a standing position. And being on so unsteady, it guided me by my shoulders to a railing along the wall. It reminded me of the kind of railing you would see in a dance studio, like a ballet would use when they're doing their stretches and things. And so I held on to that to steady myself. And then what it did was it grabbed my shoulders again and turned me toward it, the tall gray. And then it grabbed my left arm and was running its hands again over my elbow. And in both of these instances, I had a slightly less inflammation the next morning and slightly better range of motion. But it didn't really get better until a full month had gone by. It's like E.T. physiotherapy or something. Like maybe they were healing it in some way. And your impression of the reason for this was, I know we spoke last night, it was bone marrow. Yeah, I think they took bone marrow. Because you looked at symptoms of what that would feel like and what the recovery was like. And it was very similar. You found that. Yeah, yeah. I actually used chat GPT to tell me what would be if this happened, if we say this actually happened, if I'm not like, you know, out of my mind on this thing. Yeah. If my suspicion that bone marrow was extracted from my humerus bone, I left humerus bone, what would the symptoms be? What would recovery be like? What would all that? Yeah. And it described exactly what I experienced. There'd be pain radiating into the joint until the marrow had grown back and there'd be swelling at the joint. You were going to check out? I had my girlfriend at the time to an x-ray and I completely forgot that I'd done an x-ray. So when I wrote the book, I'd forgotten I'd done the x-ray. She said it showed nothing. There was no scene on the bone, like no cut. It was unusual. So if it had been cut, whatever they did to put me back together was perfect except for the fact that there was inflammation. She said there's some minor, I had minor, but nothing to be worried about. A little bit of arthritis. Okay. But it's the same thing in this joint, but it only flares up if I eat bad food. Okay. You know, but I'm at that age where I'm starting to get a tiny little bit of arthritis in some of my joints. But nothing like this, nothing like what happened with my left arm. That was this. And it was a waking, like as I'm talking to you, I know I'm not dreaming. No, you're not dreaming me right now. This is what it feels like to be awake. Yeah. Well, yeah, it's why I didn't bring up, you know, the sleep paralysis or the, because so many people's head goes to that, but like you speak enough, that's a fair assumption. It is a fair assumption for us for some, because they are, there are similarities to draw lines between sleep paralysis, especially with you wait, it's at night, you're up, you're paralyzed, it feels real. Like all of these are symptoms of sleep paralysis, but objective reality, you know, I've had out of body experiences. And I can tell you that those were not awake experiences, but they weren't lucid dreams either. And so, you know, I don't know if I'm describing a new type of dream that we haven't really defined yet. I've, I've had an OBE, but only because I was training myself to have one. Yeah. So you mentioned the book in 1995. And scared you. It scared me. I felt like, uh, did you see the movie ghost? Yeah. Where, where, when, when you walk through a ghost, when you, when you walk through a ghost or walk through a wall, there's like this, like tearing Velcro sound, like a whoosh. Yeah. Okay. I had that same sound. That's what I felt when, when I was separating. I had a book that was on my father's shelf. I borrowed it. It was, uh, I think his father was into, uh, some of that mystical cults up, but you'd never talk about it because he's such a scientific guy, but he, he was a high ranking mason. I don't, I don't know if they're, they're into that stuff, but, um, but it was called, uh, projection of the astral body by Carrington and Maldonon. And, uh, originally written in 1929, but the copy that I had was a 1947 reprint. And I started it in 1995 and I was training myself to wake up at the same time every night until I didn't need the alarm anymore. And then you'd start to wake up in your sleep in a lucid state as a result of this disciplined period of waking up at the same time and then you could introduce a suggestion to your mind like, "Alright, I want to do this thing where I separate from my body. I wanted to try it because I heard about it." It just seemed like an interesting thing to do and I was living alone and I succeeded on two occasions. One time I woke up and the ceiling was in my face and I freaked out and I snapped back and it was instantly fully awake. And then another time I was laying on my right side and I felt myself separating out, parallel to my body out away from the bed into the room and I just felt so vulnerable. Any time I'd separated that I'd freak out and snap back, I don't ever want to do it again. Yeah, it happened to me a few times involuntarily and it was one of the most terrifying experiences of my life, but instantly after it happened, I was like, "I got to do that again. I want to do that again." I won't do it again. It just felt too vulnerable. Oh, it was so scary and you feel like this, you feel this presence. A lot of a thing, but that you're not supposed to be there. That's what I got from it. I was like, "Oh, I'm in a space in some liminal existence that I am unfamiliar with, although everything looks familiar, I'm not in my room." I felt like I could be attacked. And I just didn't like that. It's new. Yeah, you're in a new space. So I get that. But then I pursued it through the gateway process and ended up meditating four months straight one hour a day at like 430 in the morning and ended up leaving my body a whole bunch of times after that. But I'm not like this, you know, into crystals and higher consciousness and the CE5 contact and Kumbaya and meditating and Sedona, Arizona, I'm not into all that stuff. But what I'm saying is that like your experience from having an OBE to the objective reality that you describe with the ET and the tall graze are different. They're not the same feeling. Very different. Yeah. Okay. It's like I said, it's like being, it's like because the field process is much closer to the OBE feeling. Right. Right. And I would say that the closest thing to the entransmit that you experienced during abduction is more similar to the dissociation like your disconnect when you're going through something traumatic, you're disconnecting from it and you're seeing everything in slow motion because your mind is trying to stay ahead of this thing that's happening to you that you don't want to accept. Is there a chance that what was happening to you was happening to the non-physical you? Do you ever consider that? Because there is that too. No, I had physical symptoms. Because afterwards, you know, and, but you never consider that any of these abductions might have been a non-physical abduction? No. There are always physical and one time, one time, I was forced to have intercourse and I didn't talk about this in the book. It bothered me, but you felt everything. But you had no control over your actions, what you were doing. And despite like this horrific feeling, like, what am I doing to this thing, this person? You just, but you know, this little voice, no, it's okay that you're doing this, it's okay that you, but you know, you're just horrified and I'm trying to remember the face of the person. It's real. It's real. Yeah. But it's, but there was like, there was this imposition, this screen memory was, was working that time and I couldn't remember what I was actually seeing, but I put the physical sensation down below was real. Oh, by the way, there's something I did want to talk about, like the routine semen collection, the sample collection we didn't talk about that. There was one encounter I had where they used to device on me. That's right. And you brought that? I saw it. Yeah. So I recreated. I did a 3D print of it and you could take pictures of it or whatever. But it, it looked like a three-sided pyramidal cone and they place it down over your, your genitals and in its instant extraction. I don't remember the feeling down there during the extraction, but I was only awake for maybe 15 seconds during that encounter. But there was another screen memory during that collection where the, the short gray that was crawling onto my bed, at the foot of my bed, up toward me, briefly looked like a very ugly woman that, that resembled somebody I knew, asking me if I wanted oral folicia. Right. Down there. And I feel I'm embarrassed saying it. But yeah, if I wanted that and I was, I was confused, I was kind of out of it and who doesn't like that sort of thing. So I'm like, I said, sure, okay. But then when this creature, you know, was about to make as if they were going to put their head down there, they pulled their head back and had this, this cup, this black pyramidal triangle thing that it was shaped like an athletic cup on the open end. Put it on top of me down there and instant extraction. Yeah. It just, it just, whatever it does to the nerves down there, it just manipulates the nerves, causes the, the ejaculate and it just, yeah, wild. So that's what they use. So as far as I know, I'm the only person who's ever like described the actual device or at least that particularly, at least one of them. Yeah. Maybe there's other types that they use, but, but the one that they used on me was a black three-sided pyramidal cone and, you know, and it was like slightly truncated at the top. It wasn't a sharp point. It was like flat at the top. But, but, but mostly, yeah, nothing attached to it. No. It was just self-contained. Yeah. Whatever technology it is. It's pretty advanced. Yeah. That's wild. Well, thanks for sharing that. I appreciate, I appreciate you opening up about all that. I think, you know, it's obviously something that's difficult to talk about and, and we have to talk about it. Well, I think so too. And I had a gentleman here, Peter Curry, if you haven't watched the interview or his story, and I spoke to you a little bit about one of his encounters with, you know, the hair of the alien, but he's also had encounters with grays. And he's been also, you know, according to him, forcibly imposed on another person. That's horrific. He's had all these very similar encounters. He's been introduced to his offspring, you know, same, okay, same things that you're saying. And there's so many. I'd like to talk to him. Yeah. I'll put you in touch with Peter. He's very friendly, very nice guy. I'm very open. And, you know, it's very difficult for him to talk about this stuff too, because on one hand, it is not only personal, obviously, the most personal, but on the other hand, it is extremely open to ridicule. It is. And it's one of those things that, like, obviously, there are jokes here. You know, they're obviously, you're a smart guy. We can see the jokes here. But those are just comfort mechanisms. You know, people don't want to accept something that would change their paradigm for them. Exactly. And so, naturally, you go to that as a defense person. And let's just set aside any suggestion that I'm doing this to sell a book. Sure. I would love to sell my book, okay, but only 1% of authors become best sellers. I still need my full-time job, and I have no illusions of quitting that any time soon. And if I become a famous author, it's probably because I'm writing about something else, you know, these memoirs that are strange like this, like, well, communion did very well. But I wrote this because the act of writing it was cathartic was therapeutic. And it allowed me to create a permanent record of everything. So I don't forget some of it. And then I illustrated my experiences while I was writing the book. And that also was cathartic that allowed me to confront on a more visceral, cognitive level that, you know, where I could deal with it more emotionally. I've had five years of deal with this on an emotional level. And that's why I can come here and seem almost flippant talking about it. I'm not flippant. But I think everybody that has these experiences should come forward because if we can have this serious conversation as a nation, as a people, maybe we can stand up and do something about it. I don't know if that's possible. Maybe it's too late. But if it's possible to thwart this agenda, it's like, I want conformed and sent. Maybe it is best that we're replaced, you know, by some measures, we suck as a species. Think about it. But I think we're also beautiful art, our music, our poetry, our literature, our architecture. You know, some of these gorgeous old cathedrals and the way we paint the ceilings and there's so much that we do that comes from our inspiration that would be lost in a species that is telepathic only, I think you lose something in terms of preserving. I think there's a lot worth preserving in humanity and I want to see if we could be the ones that beat the odds and be the voiced species that can actually persist for more than 50,000 years or however long we've been, homo sapiens. You know, there's one thing I will add to this because that argument will come up and it's like, oh, he's trying to sell a book. For every person who's had experiences who's selling a book, there are a thousand other people who are not selling a book who are telling these exact same story. And so, you know, that argument for me isn't valid at all. If you take the time as many of, you know, the phenomenon sort of predecessors have, you can quickly paint a really vast picture of the multitude and yeah, just the numerous cases that exist that are echoing mostly similar concepts. And think about the risk I'm taking or people like me would take by using my real name. I'm basically making myself unemployable to anybody. I apply for a job on Indeed and if they Google my name, it's like, oh, you a phone, no, forget it. And why would you, why would you make up things that make you appear so vulnerable? Right. Exactly. You know what I mean? Instead of making you out to be perhaps a hero. Right. Right. You know, if I'm going to make something up, I'm going to be a protagonist. I'm going to make myself look good. Okay. Yeah. Let's get to, I got a few audience questions. Absolutely. We're generously given a bunch of questions by our lovely audience over at Discord. If you're a member here, you know, you get access to many things and one of those things is asking potentially our guest a question and they always have better questions than I do collectively. So I'm excited to see what they got today. Next question by Cazane says, is Michael Herrera's account of human trafficking related to the contract you refer to in a blood covenant? I don't know. Oh, Michael Herrera. So Michael Herrera is a military whistleblower who had an encounter, I believe in Indonesia, where he was part of like some elite sort of seal team and they were there on a humanitarian mission apparently to extract people from danger because it was like a flood and as him and his, I think six people total were walking down this sort of mountainous jungle terrain. They spot this octagonal black disc hovering over the trees. And he goes, all right, let's go check it out and they get down there and they are met with just guns pointed at their heads immediately, unbadged military personnel who were loading up what seemed like people. And he says that there are, it might be mistaken, but that these reverse engineered craft were used to take people, children and all types of people for whatever use. What country was it in? I think it was in Indonesia if I'm not mistaken. But it was, it was some Asian country and they were immediately like out manned, outgunned, the tech, the gear, the clothing, the vehicles were all modern and no flags, no badges, no names. And they were being like yelled at and accosted. Their phones were taken. Everything was like shut down for them. And he came forward and he tried to reach out to some of the people that came forward that witnessed that as well. They would not come forward and they were like, please do not contact me ever again. But they were basically told to shut the hell up about it. I would ask what were the blood types of the people that were taken. So you think there, do you think there's an active agreement with the government in terms of supplying fresh blood? That's a possibility, but I think that they don't have any problem abducting people. They don't need our help for that. But here's the thing. I don't think that they're going to abduct people for the sake of blood harvesting from their homes because it's too visible. So if it's a home abduction, they get put back and it's not for the purpose of, but maybe they take a little blood, maybe they're culturing cell lines, it's mostly reproductive. But I think that if you have people camping in national parks, right, national parks in the wilderness and if they happen to be typo, they might not come back because people disappear in the wilderness all the time, they may be a bearer dragged them off. I mean, it's easy to be able to deny ability. Not that, you know, some people say, well, why would they need possible deniability? They don't leave any traces behind. They can just zip away with their little UFO. But I think that they avoid home abductions for feeding purposes, and maybe just part of that agreement too. You know, it's so strangely here and myself saying all this stuff, like this is like it's such an esophagus. Yeah, it's sci-fi. Right. Exactly. We're theorizing now. Of course. Of course. Of course, we're speculating. Yeah. But in terms of the blood covenant thesis that I talk about in my second book, that's absolutely plausible that in exchange for technological advantage, a government agency or group might be willing to engineer an exchange to feed the tall graze and sort of turn a blind eye. So that's why I ask what blood type are they, because I'll bet you they're opositive or oh negative. Otherwise, if it has to do with that at all, if it has to do with that at all, right? Okay. Next question from Chris Osttx, I'm thinking of Austin, Texas. That's so cool. We kind of touched on this, but do you have more information about the graze underground facility? I only have the map that I was shown, and I did a sort of armchair forensic analysis of the area to determine that it is geologically possible for such structures to exist. And nothing in current geological assays have been done at that depth that would show or disprove caverns in that area. And if you want to see a map of where I'm placing those caverns, according to the map I was shown, I've recreated versions of the map, you know, I've already put it up at this point. Okay. Yeah. Great. And last one here, it's a great question by Slug. Slug asks, what does the word abduction not capture about what actually happens? When you think of the word abduction, like you'll think of somebody being kidnapped, maybe they're killed or maybe they're held for ransom or something like that, usually the person is just kept confined. Maybe they're raped, maybe they're tortured or harmed, but for the most part, it's something that either ends where the person escapes or is returned or their life is ended. But that's something that most people can put wrapped their heads around. But in terms of, humans abducting humans, you know, you don't have somebody controlling another person's neurology, robbing them of their ability to think clearly, robbing them of their agency. Like sometimes when people are abducted, they find a way to escape or wiggle free or something, you know, they have a small modicum of control that they can try to fight for. The grays don't allow you even that much. They take everything from you. If they want you to have sex with somebody, they can make you have sex with somebody. If they want you to be still, they can force you to be still. If they don't want you thinking of good questions or trying to engineer a way to escape from your situation, they can keep your mind clouded and confused the entire time. And I think the word abduction itself doesn't encompass the loss of agency. I mean, there is a loss of agency when a human is abducted by another human. Of course, you know, you're taken against your will, of course. But the loss of agency that imposes upon you. the grades is total. And that angers me more than anything. What they take, but they take things like, I've always wanted more children, you know, and to be shown children, I can never touch your love or hold or know. You know, I hate these people. I hate them. I don't want them. So you asked me if they ever come back and I put another poster on my wall, what it would say, I would say, fuck off. I don't want you. I know they'll ignore it. You know, you know, sometimes religious fundamentalists will say, oh, you're, you're, your abductions are merely demons coming to deceive you and blah, blah, blah. But they'll go away if you invoke the name of Christ. Well, I was raised Christian. I'm aware of the concept. You're not even given the, the opportunity to formulate an objection in your mind against what they're doing to you. And these are not a non-corporeal. These are not spiritual entities. These are physical people that use technology and they're doing things to you physically. It doesn't sound like an angry ghost that has a gargoyle face that's like trying to corrupt your soul so you'll go to hell. It's nothing like that. These, these are people from another world and they're desperate and they're here for a reason. Some people can call their agenda evil because they're robbing us of our right to consent to their agenda. And some people can argue that they have no choice. The drowning man will always drag someone down with them. Right? So you can, you can look at both coins of the, of the ethical, I'm sorry, both sides of the ethical coin on this. And, and come up with an unsatisfying answer. Well, Eric, I want to thank you for being so candid. I really appreciate it. And I think it goes a long way for people out there possibly going through the same thing. Obviously, this helps. But also for people who just want to lend a ear. It's really, it's the craziest hump for people to get over this stuff. You can't blame them. You can't blame anyone for being like, this is all horse crap. That's, you can't blame them. But for you to know that and to still come forward, I think takes a lot of courage. And so I applaud you and I thank you for doing that. And, you know, let's keep this conversation going and see what else we can, we can come up with, hopefully collectively as a, as a species. You know, if there's anything here to glean, if there's any underlying ground truth to be surfaced, then I think that, you know, conversations like these have a play a very important part. I'm going to continue to write books that are related to them based on research and, and speculative, you know, science to try to understand them better. And so, and hopefully draw it from me again. Yeah. And drawing out some more testimony, you know, from people out there who now, maybe, yeah, because of this perhaps feel more comfortable to share. If people want to reach me through my author website or the books website, and just in the shadows.com, I'm, I'm perfectly willing to communicate with a via email. We'll leave it below. We'll leave all the links in the description here. And also if you're a member of the channel and you want an opportunity to win a signed copy, we're giving away a few, Eric was generous enough to bring a few extra copies here. So we have the a blood covenant and angst the shadows. I'll give those away. So just comment below if you're a member and we'll pick a few of you and we'll have those sent out to you. Eric, thank you again. You're welcome. Thank you. [Music]