Simple Strategies to Develop Cooperation & Engagement of Children During Therapy with Adina Soclof

Hey everyone, my name is Gerardo Yamma. I'm a professional musician, PhD student studying communication in the brain, and a practicing speech language pathologist. I'm the host of Beyond Words, a new podcast exploring the rich space for language, music, and cognition converge. If you're an SLP who's ever been curious about the mysterious origins of language, or how organized sound in the form of speech or music can affect us so deeply, or the relationship to other functions of the brain, then this show is for you. On this show, we dive into conversations that span the spectrum of human communication, from the way that infants amazingly use things like statistical probability to learn the sounds of their mother tongue, to how music and language intersect. This podcast is brought to you by speechtherapypd.com, and the episodes are available for.1 ashes CEUs through their website. So what lies beyond the words we speak? Tune in on your favorite podcast platform and find out. Welcome to the speech link. I'm your host Sharbo Sharpe, and I invite you to listen and learn practical strategies from experienced experts to take your therapy to the next level. Behavior is an interesting thing. It's so very important that our kids listen and focus in order to learn. Thing is, some kids look like they're listening, but they're not focused. Other kids, it's obvious. They're climbing onto the table or crawling under it. They're not listening or focused. This is an area where typically not trained in. Until now, hold on, as we learn some amazing techniques to manage some of our most challenging cases. Here we go. Hi everybody. I want to welcome everybody here, and I'm so excited that Adina is here with us, and I'd like to talk a little bit about her. First, I would like to formally welcome you all to our live video speech link podcast sponsored, of course, by speechtherapypd.com. Of course, you are very welcome to participate. Just type your question into the chat, and when appropriate, I'll read it out loud, and our guests will respond. I am Sharbo Sharpe, your speech language pathologist, host, where we connect and link with outstanding professionals in our field, and the goal is to dig in and discover practical information and ideas so that we can improve what we do, so that our clients can improve what they do. And to help us do that, here is some information about our guest today. Adina Sackloff is a speech language pathologist who earned her Bachelor of Arts degree in history from Queens College, and then her masters in communication sciences from Hunter College, and both are in New York. She works with children in the public school setting, and is the founder of parentingsimply.com, where she provides parenting classes. In addition, she's a presenter of professional development workshops for speech language pathologists, teachers, and other health professionals via video courses through speechtherapypd.com. And through, I think it's pdrresources or pdresources.com, and in-person courses through the Bureau of Education and Research, B-E-R. In addition, she is the author of parentingsimply preparing kids for life. Whoa, that's a heavy duty challenge. Welcome to the speech link, Adina. Welcome. Thank you so much for having me. I'm so excited because I listened to the speech link, and then when you come to invite me to be a guest, I was like, so honored. So thank you so much. I so enjoy this podcast. Oh, well, thank you so much. Thank you very much. Well, I'm excited that you're here, and I though know that you are talking with us about working with behaviors, aborant behaviors of children, kindergarten through 12th grade, and what we can do to alter our behavior and our words so that we can help them shape their behavior so they can learn. What are aborant behaviors that interfere with learning? And I know you had mentioned to me one time that you did a survey, and that seemed really interesting. You might want to share some of that with us. It sounds so important that I did a survey, but really I just know it is on Facebook in one of the speech therapy groups, and I said, "Give me your worst behaviors." They did. So I have, I have it written down here. So I'll just give you some of the behaviors that therapists are dealing with. So kids who like drop to the floor, they hide under the table, they retreat inside their shirts, they purposely sabotage games. So they'll make up rules so that they'll win, or they'll bully you, or their peers to play games their way, sparking inappropriate conversation, escalation of inappropriate behavior, making inappropriate noises. It's like I felt so bad, like, oh my god, we deal with so much. Purposely getting things wrong or mispronouncing words wrong, even just resting their feet on a peer's chair, right? So things like that. You want to hear more? You know, one that you left out that I remember happening very frequently is that kids will just sort of lay on the table, just sort of, oh I think I'm just going to lay on the table here. And yeah, there's so many of them that I was kind of chuckling because I've seen a lot of those. I've experienced a lot of those. And you know, I'm going to say some of them are kid behaviors, kid behaviors, but you know, you walk into most classrooms and they're not doing those things. I often wondered, is it partially because we are in a smaller classroom or in a smaller, you know, group or maybe even individually, the expectations are, you know, we're working on something that they're having difficulty with. I mean, let's just face it. Words are probably not their favorite thing in the world. You know, it's usually, you know, video games are playing outside or maybe even art. You know, our kids are really kind of into those types of things, but speech and language, you know, probably not so much. So we're asking them to do some difficult things or things that maybe even they don't like. So there is an environment that we're playing games, you know, so I've wondered when is it aberrant? When is it just sort of normal kids responding to their environment and so on? Do you have any words of wisdom for that? I believe that every, I don't know if I could call it aberrant. I feel like every behavior sends a message. So all those behaviors that we just talked about, it's probably avoidance. They're trying to tell you that they don't want to be there. Any of the other behaviors, let's just, just what, what did we just say? Like bullying their peers to play games their way. So that's like, so like, it's a lack of confidence. It's a lack of social, social savvy social, I should say social skills. All of these behaviors are saying, help me. I need help. Help me figure this out or, you know, help me learn how to deal with challenges or can you make me feel comfortable here? You know, I think that those are all, they're all cries for help. Okay, little messages. Yes, little messages. Okay, all right, good. Okay, and that makes sense. That makes sense. So do I look at if this is a consistent thing that's happening, you know, every time the child comes in, are they doing this, you know, like that bullying the kids and so on, or is that just maybe something that, you know, in a response to something that just happened on the playground or something that happened in class? Am I looking for a consistency of these different types of behaviors? Or does it matter? I think kids like a variety of behaviors that like to act out in different ways. So, but again, I think what you're seeing that clue, like, you know, you'll have a kid who's maybe cooperative, and then one time they'll come in like really upset. And then you're like, wait a second, then you have to do a little detective work. Like, wait, what just happened? Like, okay, he's just coming from recess. Something's going on. He's just coming from lunch. So, right, you do have to do some detective work if it's like kind of a new behavior, or again, I guess they are kind of, I guess it's both. Sometimes they're consistent and sometimes they're not. You know, he might just surprise us. So, yeah, yeah, yeah. You know, I'm wondering, so what, let's say I have a kid that came in and he is, you know, generating some kind of unique behaviors for him or her. And, you know, just got in from some sort of activity and maybe I don't know what it was, but it's, you know, something and you just know something's off. What are some things that I can actually say to the child? You know, what would be a good thing to say that would make that child feel comfortable in responding and actually talking about it? That is where I, I love, I say this, the skill of empathy or reflecting feelings or you could call it mirroring feelings. So, that's, I call it a super skill or an uber skill or whatever it is. And that's like, oh my gosh, you seem so sad. You seem frustrated. Like, something upset you. I'll always say to the child, well, let's put aside our work for now. Let's get you comfortable again. Like, you know, or let's try to figure out, like how to calm, like how to get calm so that we can start learning. But I always say, but don't worry, we don't have to start learning yet. Once you say to them, you don't have to start learning yet or give yourself some time already. You see like that calms them down that empathy that they're understood that they don't have to jump from being angry to working. You're going to give them that time to work through their emotions. It usually does the trick. But I think we do have to step back because I think, like, the most important thing when you're dealing with children is the beginning of the year. And that's developing that relationship with yourself. Okay. I always say this, like, I feel so bad. How many times, like at the beginning of the year, like how long in my notes, it's getting to know you activity. I take a really at least a month where we're doing, I mean, I don't worry, I'm getting language in there. I am getting language in there because I'm a speech therapist and you don't know how much language you're getting. I work with people who are also like with parents who like, they just don't have the language that we have. We don't realize how much language we're facilitating by the games that we're playing and these getting to know you activities. But again, I really, the more you build that relationship at the beginning, the easier the rest of the year will be. Okay. They know that they could trust you and you, they know that you're trying to find, like I always try to ask them what their interests are and figure out what they like and what games they like to play. And I'll write it down. I'll be like, Eli likes to play spotted. I have to remember that. It's written down so we know that that's a good game for you to play. Eli likes making slime. You know, again, like I really make sure that they know I hear you. I want to understand you. I want to do things that you like to do. That's the best way to learn. Those are some things that I say to my students at the beginning. And then it's so they're not going to come into your room. So angry. They still will, but they'll enjoy coming into your room. So it'll be a place for them where they can hang loose and be themselves. So I think that's really important. Yeah. Yeah. It's very important. Very important. You know, that reminds me of something that I created years ago. It's actually a little page. It's a one page thing. It's called let's talk about you. And it goes into those types of questions. And I would put it on my clipboard and we would sit in whether they're child, whether it was an individual child, which was very rare, or I had three or four or five kids, you know, we'd sit down and we talk about them. What is their favorite food? What do they do at home? I know a lot of them are playing video games and so on. So we could talk about that. But do they have a pet? And, you know, a lot of times the kids have cats or dogs or my last school. We were kind of out in the, you know, a rural area. So we had cows and chickens and we had all sorts of animals. And so I knew that kids really liked animals. And so I would pull up the zoo close circuit TV or whatever it's called. And, you know, we could watch the giraffes walk around and that kind of thing. I just sort of kept that on one of my computer screens. And so I knew that all of my kids loved animals. And that was always just, you know, such an attractive, such a fun thing. They would come in and see, oh, what is what's the giraffes doing now? Oh, look, there's the tigers. It'll look what they're doing. And it was just a fun thing. So, and I wouldn't have known that. I mean, I probably could have guessed it. But it was kind of a formal thing. They knew that I knew. And I would do that. Let's talk about you. In fact, I think I have, I have that on my website. It's speechdynamics.com speechdynamics.com and it's under the free stuff. You just sort of scroll down and I'm pretty sure I have it in there somewhere. If not, I need to get it on there. But, and that's kind of what you're talking about. And a lot of it is taking a personal interest in the kids, but also they can share and they get to know one another on a deeper level. And that is so wonderful. I'll ask the question. Then I want Susie to ask Jose, you know, I want her to ask the same question that I just asked. And so that they can begin interacting and talking with one another too. So, I am all for sharing who we are as little individuals and so on. And yes, it does help me as a therapist, as you were saying, to personalize my instruction. You know, to get books or poems or something along those lines, you know, with those topics that they're really interested in. So it's funny because I was working in Kindergarten and I, I was working really last year just with Kindergarten kids and now I moved from first to sixth grade. So I was doing a lot of fun activities and I was very nervous about bringing those activities. I was doing a lot of sensory activities and I was very nervous about bringing those activities to my older kids. And I said to my older kids, I said, listen, you have to know that I was working in Kindergarten. So I might bring an activity that you might feel is babyish and you must let me know about it. And but slowly over the year, I brought all those sensory activities first through sixth graders and they all love, they love the calming jars, the squishy bags, the slime. They love sensory activities. And that's another thing that really, if you're going to do fun things, they're going to want to come and they're not going to misbehave. So they give me all the the behavior kids. I don't know. Like I just, I'm like, I love them. Like I just love them and I think it's because I really try to do these really fun activities with them. And either it's like a motivator at the end, like we'll take, I'll do like whatever, I can make slime in five minutes. So either it's a motivator at the end or it's the actual activity where we have to follow directions, we're working on social skills back and forth, whatever it is. So I think also, I think I would say doing fun activities is really also a really important way to avoid dealing with difficult behaviors like just from the get go. And it's important to know what would be fun for that particular child or that group. Because, you know, some kids may not like the feel of, I think there's probably some kids on the spectrum that may not like the feel of the slime and so on. So yeah, you're going to have to personalize it. But yeah, that makes total sense. And personalizing, individualizing, making sure that that activity is going to be something that's enjoyable, that maintains their attention and so on. And we all agree at that. And we all like, you know, for our kids to do enjoyable and fun things. And we all know why. Are there other benefits to doing things that kids like besides, oh, we're capturing their attention? Is there anything else, any other consequences? You know, any other reasons we should do that. The sensory activities increase their attention. So I have one child who really has poor attention skills. And I just give them shaving cream. I happens to be that this year I have a sink in my room. And it makes my life so much easier. I literally just take a bowl, put the she was she squeezes whatever she whatever presses the little pushes the time. Thank you. Okay. I know it's a life being cream. We put it in the bowl. She plays with it. And we do the rest of our activities while she's playing with the shaving cream. Like all of the sudden, her she attends. She's able to focus. And I also, I mean, I always say I like to let my kids know also like, did you notice like that you were having problems attending before? But once you had the shaving cream, you were able to attend better to our activity. I just like them to notice because I think it's important that they understand what helps them with their attention skills. So I think that's an important thing also to say to them, it's important for me that children take responsibility for their learning and for their issues. Like I don't, you know, and I say to them, listen, you can't always use shaving cream. I said, yeah, you know, your mom's not going to always let you use shaving cream. So we can find other ways to help you increase your attention. It's something that, you know, maybe even just washing your face and playing in with water might help you. But that's I think important. And it also, once you're playing with shaving cream, it decreases your misbehavior or any type of behaviors because you're enjoying that so much. Although, I guess you could, I haven't had an issue with like shaving cream being flung, but there's one kid that I do have issues with that. Yeah. And you're talking friends. So individual. Was that just a single one child? Yeah. That was one child. Okay. No, I don't. Yeah. But I would do it in a group. But I would preface it this year. I'm not working in any groups last year. I had all groups. Wow. I know. Lucky me, right? Whoa. Everything is one-on-one. But last year I worked in groups. So I would, but I preface it, you know, I'll say to kids, this is we're doing this. It's a special activity. If anybody feels that they can't handle the shaving cream or they're going, you know, or we'll review the rules beforehand. We'll review the rules right before we squeeze that shaving cream. Well, you know, I keep it very under control. And basically, I feel like if you do that, then you'll have kids that listen. So or they'll reduce the behaviors, just like gently reviewing the rules and knowing that they're going to have that fun activity. If they do behave, then I think that that's really important. Okay. So you're talking about the rules as far as the dues and the don'ts. And if you do a don't, then here's a consequence. Do you go that far? I never really get to that point where we have to have a consequence. But I would. Oh, no. Oh, no. We're forgetting the rules. We have. Okay. Shaving cream is gone. You know what? And it might be a while until we're able to do this again. Okay. Oh, okay. I'm so sad. I'm so sad. I'm so sad that we have to do this. Come on. Let's go. Let's get this cleaned up. People are flinging. Okay. So again, very, and whenever you want to give a consequence, it's got to be gentle. It has to be kind and in a very understanding way. Because then they can show you, but they also need to understand that hey, you did something wrong and you didn't follow the rule. And here's what's happening. We're not doing it anymore. Okay. And I will say like if, you know, the next time around, like the next time I meet with them, I will also say, guys, remember what happened with the shaving cream? Today we're doing something else because we're not using the shaving cream because of what happened. And I just want to remind you of that. And I know today is going to be a better day. I know the materials that we're going to be using might be a little bit messy. And I know we're all going to remember the rules. Let's review the rules of this. And that's what I'll do. So okay. Okay. Good. I'm very, that sounds good. I'm fun, but I'm firm. Fun, but firm. I like that. That's parenting. There's a little bit of parenting in there. Yeah. Now you were talking about this sensory piece. And I now are you also talking about like using manipulatives and that type of thing? Are you heading that direction or you're talking shaving cream or a little nose that you put together? So they could use any manipulatives that they want. Okay. As long as they use it appropriately, if they're not throwing it, if people, kids are going to start fighting, it's gone. So they know that. And I'll tell them, I'm like, I love when you use that squishy ball that that helps keep kids calm. That helps us really focus. If we're not going to play with it appropriately, it has to go away. I need to let you know that at the beginning, right? And then maybe we'll list what's like inappropriate and what's appropriate. You could play with them. They, oh my gosh, they love role playing. Like I'll take like the manipulative and like throw it across like I'll pretend to throw it. I'm like, do you think that that's a good way to play with it? And they'll be like, no, no, you know, and so fully. No, hopefully, they, but they generally do. And they love when you're playful. I guess it's another thing. Be playful. Okay. And again, I think it's also a social skill learning the rules. Like what are the rules and role playing? What the rules are, what you can do and what you can't do. Kids love that. And I also do that with like if kids, the teachers tell me that they're saying, shut up or another therapist is telling me that, you know, they're using inappropriate language, then we'll discuss that. A big one is not being able to hear no. I love the Julia Cook book. Julia Cook has amazing books which she has. If you go online and you look at her books. Okay. But if you want to look at a recipe in the meantime, go look up a recipe in the meantime. You need something for dinner. Call me like ice cream. That's good. That's good. Yeah. So no, so Julia, her name is Julia Cook. If you go to the website, she has books for almost every social skill that you want to teach. One of the books that she writes, but she has a personal space camp. She has my mouth is a volcano like for impulsive behavior. One of the ones that I I had that I had two kids who, if you would tell them no, they would go nuts. Both their parents were telling me and also the teachers were telling me so that she has a book. I just can't hear no. I think it's the name of it. And she goes step by step, what you should do when you hear no. And it's a story about RJ about how he, you know, was hard for him to hear. No, it's such a great springboard for discussion. So we talk about that and we really also we role play. So any of those behaviors that I originally spoke about role playing, what you should do and what you can't, like what you can't do. I'm just going back to the example that we had about kids who they like to win. They need to win or they'll bully their peers to play that way. So again, that's like a social skill that they need to learn that, you know, it's okay not to win. And what could we say when we lose, right? And I'll be like, I don't want to lose. This is so stupid. The game is so unfair. Is that what we're supposed to put, you know, is that what you're supposed to say? And it cracks them up when you act like a kid. And they'll be like, no, I'm like, okay, so what's a better thing to say? And they'll say, oh, it's okay. Maybe I'll win next time. Now, does this mean that they're going to use this skill next time? No. But we're just laying the groundwork in the foundation. And maybe by the end of the year, they'll think to themselves, oh, remember Mrs. Sapa, you're role modeling. Maybe this is a time I could use that skill. But again, we could only do so much. We could always, you know, lay the foundation. So I think that's important. Okay. Getting a child to say a good ear sound is one thing, but getting them to use it consistently is another. Now, you know the EZR program for getting the ear, but what about generalization? Well, what about the new R speech Practice Adios? Kids love to practice them and you quickly access them via QR codes. Go to speechdynamics.com to take advantage of the 40% off sale price. Do it now. So you're kind of talking about self-directed behavior and self-directed learning. You use that term self-direction, don't you? Yes, I do. Okay. Can you get into some of that for me? So for me, it's really, really important that kids take responsibility for their work. I feel like if you're always, here's a treat, if you do your work, then I think it takes away the joy of learning from kids. And there is always even if a kid who's not academic, there's always something that they enjoy learning. It might not be words or it might, you know, it might be, you know, mechanics, right? Or it might be trying to think of like, you know, it might be art, like learning a new art technique, which, you know, unfortunately, on our schools, we don't cultivate that enough. But again, I just my philosophy or what's really important to me is that they love what they're doing, that they have, you know, working in kindergarten. These kids have this twinkle in their eye, like every time, oh, I learned that, I learned A, I learned what the sound A. And it tells me that by first or second grade, I know. I know. What are we doing today? I know. For me, I want to bring that joy back into learning. Just like some of the things that I do in terms of like I, I'll at the beginning, I make a pencil case out of duct tape. And we have, so I love Google and I love doing arts and crafts with my kids. So, okay, whatever, you take this plastic bag, a ziplock bag, and then you just wrap it with duct tape. I buy a color duct tape. And then we make index cards. And on the index cards, we put their goals. And I actually did this with kindergartners also. And I worked with my other speech therapist, like how to, I don't know if this is a appropriate way to say, but like how to dumb down the goals so that your IEP goals so that it makes sense. I mean, if you're working on opposites, okay, fine. Social skills was like, we figured out like how to be a good friend. That was like a nice way to put social skills. Simplify them. Simplify. Thank you. Yeah. Yeah, that's your word. Yeah. Perage in simply. IEP is simply. Yes. And so at the beginning of our sessions, we always take out, I mean, I phase it out by the end, but we always take out. This is what we're working on today. And I feel like that helps them take, they know what their goals are. They know what they're working on. And it helps them take responsibility for their work. And I also, I don't give out toys or candy or I don't give out prizes. I work in a Jewish school. So we have the holiday of Purin where you give out candy. So we do make something out of candy. And I have candy left over. So they know that they're allowed to have candy, but not because you did a good job. Just because it's there and it's left over. Yeah, so I don't want to say I don't ever do candy because whatever, but I do, but I don't like to give it as a motivator. Even the sensory activities that I do at the end, it's not like if you behave, then we're going to do a sensory activity. It's just first we're doing this, then we're doing this, and then let's do something fun to end off our day. I don't know if I'm explaining myself well, but like that takes away, you have to do the hard stuff first, and then we're going to get to the fun stuff. So even though I am saying that we're going to do the fun stuff at the end, but it's just the way that it's worded. I don't like that. And I actually worked with a child who I felt like I had up, he would say he was really tough kid. And he would say, well, you're going to give me if I do this worksheet. I'm like, nothing, I'm not giving you any. He's I'm like, well, the last tutor that I had, if I did 10 worksheets, I went to the pizza store. I'm like, so I'll take you to the pizza store if you want to go, but not for doing your worksheets, you have to do your worksheets because you have to do your worksheets. I spent a lot of time undoing, I don't know how many worksheets we got done. I wanted him to know, you're not doing this for the prize, you're doing it because you need to learn and you need to learn how to read, and that's a value. I don't know, that's just my philosophy. Good. Well, I'm going to say that's a really good philosophy, not only as an SLP, but as a parent. It's called life, that's the way it should be. I think, and I know that you have some alternatives to reinforcers and so on, and I want to get to that here in a second. But that self-directed learning, I just I just see that as so very, very important. And, you know, for kids to have a sense of not necessarily relying on my praise. And, you know, maybe they can rely on my encouragement and showing them how to do or what to do, that kind of thing. But I love it when I see speech language pathologist encouraging kids to identify, did they do something right? Or was there something else that they needed to do to correct it? And that whole sort of self-directed thing that leads a child, a person into transferring it into life and into into the classroom and so on, and beyond our therapy room walls. Is there something else that you could share with us about that? I really ascribe to the philosophy of Carol Dweck and a growth mindset. I think we spoke about that, right? So, in terms of praising children, so I never sell a job that they did a good job. I never, sounds horrible, right? Do I sound so mean? So, you know, good job. I never say you're so smart. I always focus on the effort that they put in, that the work that they put in. So, for example, I have one student with high functioning autism and so we're working on articulation and she works so hard. Like, I'm like, oh, can we try that S again? I'm like, oh, I heard the slushiness. She really, and she, you know, she gets frustrated easily, but with this, she really does it. Like, she moves her tongue so that she can say the sounds appropriately. And I always say to her, I said, it's so frustrating to have somebody, you know, correct the way that your speech and where your tongue is. I said, but every time you try and you try again, and then you get it right, you know, and I'll say good for you. Like, I'll never say like, good job. And I feel like, maybe that's maybe because I would say that to her at the beginning, maybe that's why, because I feel like that makes them work hard. When you tell them what they're doing right and you tell them that they're working hard, I think about, if I was a kid and I had to go to speech therapy and they were like, okay, you sound slushy, I'd be like, oh my gosh, please. Again. Like, whatever, and times, yeah. And so the fact that they do it is, it's just, it's a big deal. So, the fact that they sit when they have such poor attention skills, the fact that they're concentrating. So, I have one child who has poor attention skills and he tries so hard to attend. And I'm like, I see how hard you're working to attend. You have one eye on our work, but you also have one eye on the window. Look at you. Look at that. Look at what you're trying to do. And I think that that's so important to just focus on, you know, the work that they are doing and the work that they are putting in. So, I just, you know, I don't know, I want them to appreciate themselves. And I want them to appreciate the hard work that they're doing, even though it might seem like it's so silly to us. Like, of course, they should sit and of course, they should attend, but no, they're kids. So, yeah. Yeah. They're kids. They're little people. Yeah. Yeah. Oh, okay. All right, great. I love all of that. And it's just, it's something that I don't know if any of us learn this type of behavior shaping and communicating with the kids. I don't know if we learn any of that at the university level, just to sort of maybe change the direction just a bit here. I'm wondering, when did all of this start for you? I mean, you have kids, right? So, yeah, I'll tell you that, first of all, I was always as a kid and as like a counselor in camp and just I was always attracted to those people who knew how to talk to kids or that kids were drawn to. And I was like, what's their secret sauce? Like, what are their, like, what's their magic? And, you know, there's always, there's that teacher who just, and even as a speech therapist, I was just drawn to people like I would just observe in classrooms like when I was picking up kids, I'd be like, that's a good teacher. What is she doing? And then, really, what really did for me was my sister gave me the book, "Cat of Toxal Kids" will listen by Adele Faber and Elaine Maislush, which is a fabulous book. And again, if I have to use the word dumb down again, I'm sorry. Simplify, they simplify, they make it user friendly. It's after like reading the book and doing more research on it, their communication techniques are techniques that, I should say psychologists and social workers use in talk therapy, you know, just mirroring, reflecting feelings. And they, they brought it to parents. And they did it in a beautiful way. And I just, that's where I got it started. And I, I actually took off many years as a speech therapist to raise my kids. So, I went to a workshop on this "Cat of Toxal Kids" will listen this book. And, okay, I had a lot to say. I had read the book. I was using it at home. It was so valuable. It was really, I was really connecting with my, my own kids. So, I went to the workshop. I had a lot to say, yada, yada, yada, whatever. I'd probably boring everybody to tears. And they're like, oh, then know it all in the class. She shut up already. I need to remember. Oh, yeah. The person who was running the workshop, she was moving. There were two people who ran the workshop. So, one was moving and the other facilitator said, you know, would you like to run workshops with me? It's like, are you crazy? I'm like, I'm like, I used it at home, but I, I'm so gathered by kids, I promise you. I'm like, so, but they asked me to facilitate. And I loved it. I loved it. Like, I found my calling. And then the parents, so many of them were professionals. Like, they were, many of them were speech therapists, occupational therapists. Many of them were social workers. They're like, Athena, we're using these techniques professionally. You need to start giving these classes for professionals. And again, I'm like, what? That's crazy. No. You know, and then I developed just my, like, I, I guess I collect, like, people collect dolls or they collect, I don't know, art. I like to collect communication techniques. Like, you know, things that work. I love that you could say one thing one way, and it's like completely wrong. But if you just change like a couple of words around in the sentence, then you can gain cooperation. So, I love any, and if anybody out there has any techniques that, you know, work for them, I, I, I love to hear any of those techniques. Yes. But do you remember any of the ones that you especially like that you like to use? So I'd love to use eye statements, right? So instead of saying, you're so wild, you could say, I need children to be sitting in their seats now, right? I need legs to be on the floor. I need bodies to be still. So that's like, okay, eye statements are great. Also, I always, this is like the prototypical communication skill they talk about. So instead of saying, if you don't behave, you're not going to get a prize, right? It's, then you say, when then, when children are sitting, then we're going to get our prizes. Even though I said, I don't get that prizes. So maybe that's a good, that's not a good thing. But, but we get the idea. Yeah. So the if and to when then and the eye statements and things like that. Okay. Okay. Great. I like those. I like those a lot. And I have used those through the years. And I think especially the eye statements really work if you've done your job of sharing yourself and and and then getting to know the child. So that you have that camaraderie because the last thing that that child wants is to be separated from you. I mean, and I'm talking more emotionally or psychologically, you know, that they want to please you. So and yeah, so you use the eye statement to relationships. And I was just actually listening to your class that you were giving on like you just what's one of your unlike building and you were saying building relationships, how you go and you talk to the teachers at the beginning of the year and you connect with the teachers at the beginning of the year and you complement them. So it's the same thing. Like, yeah, you did listen, didn't you? I did. I did. I did. I did. So I love your I love your podcast. But it's all about relationships. And again, the more you invest at the beginning of the year in that relationship, put your IEP goals aside. I won't tell anyone. No one will know. Put them aside and learn about the child. Learn what they like. Connect with them. Have fun with them. So that's I feel like that's like that foundation and things will be so much smoother the rest of the year if you do spend that time getting to know them and trying to get the activities that they do like. So I think that that's important. Yeah. Oh, yeah, definitely. Now, it sounds like, you know, sort of we're leaning toward a free-for-all kind of thing. But I also think that you probably have some some good structure in there as far as how you approach your therapy, what you do in therapy, your direction, you know, that you're going with the kids, you know, you want the kids to know, you know, we're just having fun and having a game and so on. We're here for a reason. I bet you have some of those other things in line or in place. Do you? I do. So because I'm an instruction person and I tend to be all over the place. That's why, you know, the pencil cases that I said at the beginning, whatever in the middle of our discussion. And I said that it's for the kids, for their self-directed learning. Okay, 15% of it is for me. It gets me. We take out the cards. This is what we're going to be doing today. Then what I do is we have a whiteboard and we write down what we're doing. Well, this is great for sequencing. This is what we're doing first. This is what we're doing second. This is what we're doing third. Usually like I start, I'll teach them how to do it. So the first month, I'll be writing everything. Second month, they love it. They're, what are we doing? First, Mrs. Sacklove. And I'll say, oh, you have a choice today. Either we could do verbs first or we could do the articulation first, your S sounds first. So you have a choice today. And sometimes I'll say, oh, no, we're not going to have a choice today because I have this activity that I really want to do with you. So we have to do, we're going to have to do this, you know, the S or S sounds first or verbs second. And because I have, I don't know, we were making lava lamps. Oh my gosh, the kids love lava dance. I have a really great activity to do. So we got, you know, I have to be the one in charge today. Usually I like when you're in charge, but I like to be the one in charge. And again, that whiteboard is 75% for me and 25% for them. Okay, that's a lie. It's really for both of us, 100% for both of us because the structure for them is so important. The sequencing is so important. It helps them take responsibility for what they're learning. They love, I mean, it's also an executive functioning skill. They love, oh, they love checking off. If I forget to check off, you know, if I forget to tell them to check off when we finish with the activity, we forgot to check it off. I have to check it off like that whiteboard. Something about the whiteboard. I like the whiteboard. They look whiteboard. I don't know what it is. So yeah, so there's a lot of structure in there. There's a lot of room to move, but we have to get our stuff done. Right. Yeah. Well, and I'm wondering too, if this sort of flows over into the classroom, or maybe even at home, let's just talk about the kids' teacher for right now. Do you go in and talk with the teacher and say, hey, these are some things that we're doing. Here's what Susie Q did, and that teacher is going to pick up and say, oh, I can do that too. And then there's that sort of, you know, kind of sharing, cooperative kind of thing going on. But do you do those kinds of things with the teachers and working on the transfer and the generalization? I do, but it happens to be that K through six, I find the teachers are so overwhelmed. So I'll say, I'm like, this is what I'm working on. What do you think? I always say, what do you think? Like, what could you tell me? I found that this has worked with her. And that's really the best that I could do. When I worked, there was a very, I worked in kindergarten. I worked in a school that actually has grown at private school, that's grown exponentially. And they had to move, they had to find more room for all the classes. And they actually put the kindergarten in this like in the basement of a new building and they made it, like it was beautiful. So it was a very self-contained kindergarten. It was amazing. And I worked with the most amazing people. And there was so much back and forth and the teachers and the behavioral interventionists. We all fed off of each other. And in that, it was so unique though. It was so, when they moved me out of the kindergarten, it was a very unique situation. And there was so much given take. And there was so much exchange of ideas. And really, like, everything was reinforced. Like, everybody was doing the same social skills. The teachers had the same language as a speech therapist and the behavioral interventionists. It was fantastic. I haven't been able to replicate that with the K through six that where I'm working. Yeah. No, that's going to be a tough one. Yeah. I know. Sometimes you get into situations and it's like, oh my gosh, it's perfect. And you get used to working with the people and you all click and you're all sharing. And everybody is leading. You know what I'm saying? There's no one person that takes over. And I love that type of atmosphere where everybody's, you know, your information is important. And yeah, it rarely do you find that. It was a dream job. I mean, it was just a dream placement. But again, you know, I say any place they put me, I just held a challenge of a behavioral issue. I'm like, okay, how am I going to connect with this kid? I'm going to do it. I love it. I love it. Now, do you have, I know that, don't you have a website, do a website? I do parentingsimply.com. So it's mostly for parents, but actually I'm an Instagram. So parenting simply one. And so a lot of times I'll post there what I'm doing in school. I'm just always so like, I'm always so nervous to like post what I'm doing in school. If like, by mistake, like the kid gets into the picture or I don't know, I could just imagine that I could do something like did see like that. And I just like, but still like, I really try to edit the pictures. So I usually post like the fun stuff that I do in my therapy there. So if you want to check out Instagram, Instagram. So it's parenting simply one on Instagram. Is that one or one? Well, just the number one. So somebody can take in parenting. So I don't know. I was a little late to Instagram. I don't like change. I don't like innovation. No, I'm kidding. I was very resistant. I was resistant to Facebook. I was resistant when they told me that I needed to make a website. I'm like, what for? What do I get to make a website for? I know. Just every, every point where it was recommended that I like move up in the technological ladder. I'm like, you just want to do what you want to do, right? And all this technological stuff is can can be an interference. And you know, I mentioned that we're going to come back to alternatives for reinforcers and rewards and punishments and so on. Thinking maybe we covered it, but is there anything else you're talking more of the verbalizations? And you don't supply at the end. Let's play with this app or do you? So I'll tell you, when I first started bringing the iPad into, I would use the iPad. I had one student who, I mean, he couldn't get off the iPad or the only he only spoke when am I going to get on the iPad? When am I going to get on the iPad? And at that point, I said, done with the iPad. It was so difficult. I just don't use technology in my therapy. During COVID, I did have to, and it was kind of nice, but because I had that experience, I just, I don't know, and it's worked for me, you know, not, you know, I think it's nice like using the videos for social skills. I'm always like so torn. I found other ways to, you know, work on social skills and just doing very, using old-fashioned stuff. I'm an old-fashioned kind of gal. Okay. All right. Well, I have one more question for you. And just in a minute or two, and it's more of a life lesson type of thing, what have you enjoyed most about being an SLP? I love working with kids, and I love language, and I love facilitating language in kids. And my, my kids are able to use those, especially like social skills when you see they're like having successful, successful interactions with their friends, because of something that you might have taught them. Oh, I like that's like the best feeling in the world. So, it's connecting and making them feel good about themselves, like so many of these kids, they don't feel good about themselves, or their parents don't feel good about their kids. And talking to the parents and just telling them like, this worked for them, and I'm having, I'm enjoying your child so much, and like these are her friends. That's what I love. Yes, I agree totally, and I bet most of us would agree with that. And I know that, you know, this for many SLPs, this has been just a super difficult year. And I'm hoping that we'll be going back into our in-person situations in the fall. And I'm hoping that we get back into, you know, I'll take down the acrylic and and get into, you know, personalized instruction. And yeah, there's just nothing like it. There's nothing like it. And I think that's one of the more frustrating things this year is that you didn't have that personalized type of interaction. I was actually in person most of them they closed every school. Yeah, so we were in person for most of them, and we just amassed June's second. What's today, June 3rd? It was, I think June 1st, when we was like, no, yesterday, yesterday, we had unmasking parties at school. I didn't see many kids yesterday, but I'm asking assemblies. But I wasn't able to work in person most of the year with a mask on obviously, and Plexiglass, but yeah, but you were there. Okay. Well, I wish you got to see and be with them and they got to be with you. And that's a good thing. That's a good thing. Well, Edina, thank you so much for, for sharing your amazing insights with us. This has just been so much fun. Totally fun. Thank you so much. I'm so happy to be, I love your, I love, I love your podcasts. I'm so happy to bless you. Yes. Thank you so much. Thank you. I so appreciate that you had me on and yeah. Yes. Well, thank you for saying yes. Thank you so much. Yes. Well, good. I'm so glad. Also, I would like to thank all of you for being here and for tuning in and for continuing to get the word out about the speech link podcast. Now it is visual and it's going to continue to be visual where you not only learn practical information, but you get to see use. And I greatly appreciate all your positive comments and your reviews and your support for all of this. You know, and I was just looking in my computer today and realizing that it has been three years since we actually started the speech link. Yes. Yes. That's a long time. I know. Exactly. We were actually, yeah, we were actually one of the first speech language pathology podcasts, which is kind of cool. Absolutely. Absolutely. Racing innovation. I have to do some more of that. There you go. There you go. Yes. Well, but I had help. Speech therapy. Yeah. They did most of the technological stuff. I just said something. So, you know, there you go. And then also as most of you know, this speech link does meet every other Thursday at seven. Just like this evening. And next time on June 17th, same time. And you might want to make a note of this. Lisa Chatler. M-A-C-C-C-S-L-P will share with us moving from smart guesses to smarter questions. And she's talking about how to help our kids use really good and appropriate questions. So as we wrap up here, just log into your speech therapy pd.com account. Take the quiz. Do the Eval and print out your certificate. And also just so that you know in a few days the audio version of this episode, in addition to the video version on speech therapy pd.com, the audio version will be available on all of the popular podcast apps like Apple Podcast, Tunian, Podbean, and so on. So, tell your friends. And do know, do know that you are all greatly, greatly depreciated. And thank you so much for everything that you do for your therapy kids. See you next time. Bye-bye. Thank you for listening to the speech link. Please check out my other offerings at my website, SharvoShart.com, and also speech therapy pd.com. See you next time for more interviews, information, and insights. Until then, thank you so much for all that you do with your speech kids. Be well, and God bless.