433: Sickening Ohio Family Details, Clancy Courtroom Drama, & Husband Stages Wife’s Murder Using PPD?

Hey true crime besties, welcome back to an all new episode of Serialist's Suite. Hello, hello, hello, and welcome back to an all new episode of Serialist's with me your host Annie Elise. Hope you're having a great week so far. It's been a busy one. I know that there's been some courtroom drama in the beginning of this week in the Clancy trial. We're going to talk all about that. There have been some horrific updates and a lot of cases that we have previously discussed on here. And there's of course, unfortunately, as always, new cases that are happening every single week. Now, in case you missed it on Monday, I actually released a deep dive into the Michigan family annihilator, the family of eight that was found dead. We've talked a little bit about it on headline highlights where not only did this husband seemingly shoot his entire family, but then set fires throughout all the rooms. And when we started digging deep into it to do the deep dive, there's a lot of weird information that we found out. Not a life insurance policy, a homeowners insurance policy that was taking out three days before all of this. Of course, the theories and speculation about him embezzling him having an affair. We found a lot more reddit post that his wife had made. So the deep dive released Monday. You can go listen to that now. And then I released a second deep dive on the second true crime podcast of mine 10 to life on Tuesday. And that case is I don't want to say reminiscent of Lindsey Clancy, but people are drawing a lot of parallels to it. It's the case of Chad Dorman. He murdered his three sons. However, what's different with his case is he had been planning and plotting this for eight months. He did tell his mom the morning of that he was feeling weird. He went to a clinic, but he didn't speak with anyone. And ultimately during his trial, he was deemed as knowing in that moment what was right, what was wrong and still choosing to do this anyway. But what's so wild about this case is the interrogation footage we got our hands on and the body can footage and I have to say when we release this on Tuesday, the amount of comments of how pissed off you guys were when you heard the dispatcher on this call. And I hear you it's pretty frustrating, but I could talk all day long about that case. My point is there are some parallels being drawn between that case and Lindsey Clancy wondering if he should not be given the same grace as Lindsey, but be asked the same kind of questions. What was this a mental illness situation? Was he suffering? Why are we excusing it for one person and not another? I believe once you hear all of the details, you'll understand that this was very different than that case in the sense that he never tried to really reach out for help, never confided in people about what he was going through, never sought treatment, never sought medication and again had planned this for the better parts of a year. So if you haven't listened to that yet because you don't know that I have a second true crime show, go listen right now. It is 10 to life, 10 to life that way you get new episodes every Monday, Tuesday and Thursday. But today we're here for headline highlights everything that's going on this week. And as I'm sure you've been able to notice if you have been watching the video versions on YouTube for the past couple of weeks, there has been a little adjustment to the set. We are officially in our new set that we had been working on this for the last several weeks. It's finally almost done a couple minor tweaks. We still have to do, but really excited because this is the first official episode of headline highlights that I am doing in this new set where you are going to see the full camera view editor and a camera view. Because here is our guest with me today, Amy, Colette, O'Brien, the seventh. Thank you so much. You're welcome. It's exciting to be in the new set. I know welcome to the serialistly set. I was laughing because last week I saw a comment that said, I think they low key like might hate each other or not like each other and then someone responded and said were sisters. And that's the second time we recently have heard people not knowing were sisters and we actually learn each other. We beef all the chime, all the chime. No, welcome to the set. You might need to just scoot this a little bit closer to your first. There we go. We just want to we want to make sure you can hear Amy the full surround sound, the full surround sound. So just to give you to a little bit of backstory and all my audio listeners are like, Annie, I don't even give a shit get to the stories, but the reason I wanted to update the set is because I felt like with the desk before. It felt a little too like not newsroomy, but not as warm and I feel like this is more conversational. It feels like I'm bringing you guys in a little bit closer to me. It's a little brighter and it just feels like it's come fear. Yeah, better energy from the heaviness of what we discuss. So which speaking of the heaviness that we discuss, we have got to talk about this new update in the Ohio ciders family case because it is sickening diabolical and like. I think another deep dive is going to be coming guys because I'm trying to route my head around this and there's just so much information. So as I just said, the first update today is about the ciders family and this is the Ohio family where the authorities went to their house back in June and it was deemed immediately as Ohio House of horrors and they found 16 children living in horrific conditions. I'm talking feces, insects, dirt, hoarding, trash, I mean just absolute filth. Many of them were also confined to one single. I believe it was a 12 by 12 room, maybe even a 10 by 10 room now that I'm saying it out loud, but they were in such bad condition medically that they had to be hospitalized. Now, when this first happened, there was one major question, right? Why were the investigators even at this house to begin with? What made them go there and even do this check in the first place? Well, at the time, authorities said that they were carrying out warrants. However, they didn't immediately say what those warrants were for. We did know that the gary ciders junior had an arrest warrant that had been issued on June 30 for four counts of public indecency because of incidents that had happened back in May, but that's really all that we knew. And so at the time, it was kind of like we were drawing conclusions based on that of, oh, they were going there to talk to gary junior, then they by a happy accident for them, they discovered what was inside so that they could save these children. And a lot of people, including myself at first realized that that was the only reason that the investigators went to the house, because again, they were remaining pretty tight lipped overall. Then, as we know, after that warrant was executed, the 16 kids were found in this awfully horrible, disgusting trash bin of the house and four adults were arrested. Elizabeth Ciders, Gary Ciders Junior and Gary Junior's parents, Gary senior and Christina Ciders. However, now new information has come out that there was actually a completely separate warrant also being carried out that day. And it sure enough, it was connected to a child sexual assault investigation. So according to the county prosecutor, investigators had obtained a search warrant specifically to collect Gary Junior's DNA in connection with the investigation. And this is where the whole case starts to get even more twisted because this investigation, it didn't just happen out of nowhere. Back in December of 2025, investigators were working on a separate case that involved two men named Josh Saunders and Brandon Henderson Senior. These two men were arrested on several sexual charges, as well as child endangerment. And while the investigators were digging into that case, they learned some information that eventually led them to Gary Junior and Elizabeth. And I think that this is very interesting too, because this doesn't negate, in my opinion, that Elizabeth was groomed at a very young age. But if you listened to my deep dive on this case, you know that she met Gary when she was really young. Her parents signed off on her getting married before she was even a legal adult. It seemed as though she was only there for breeding. She was having babies every single year for 20 years. And so it seemed like she was very much a possible victim in this scenario as well. And that maybe Gary Ciders Junior was the one pulling the strings and all of this. And that still could be true. Two things can be true at once. However, with this case, that the new information that they had learned, that's what led them to Gary Junior and Elizabeth. And then a few months later, in March of 2026, the Ohio Bureau of Criminal Investigation officially opened an investigation into this couple, the younger couple, not Gary Cider Senior parents, you know, because they're four of them living in that house. And this was over allegations of unlawful sexual conduct with a minor. Now, we still don't know exactly what the information was that led them to the ciders, more specifically to Gary Junior. But prosecutors alleged that between January and September of 2022, the two of them engaged in inappropriate conduct with a minor who was more than 10 years younger than they were. And it's also been said by officials that the alleged victim is not one of their children, but that there is an inter-family relation. Now that, I think, is very important, because one of the questions we have. we asked as well when this first came to light was, why was she having so many children? Was it because they just believed in procreation? Or was it because there was something sick and twisted and demented going on inside that house and was there some sort of incest situation, especially with different family members who had been married off younger as well? And it just was like a very weird gray area and trying to understand like what was going on within this house, while the secrecy, while the filth and like what was the truth? Well, now we're hearing that, okay, yes, they were under investigation for some sexual assault, not charges, but activity and that that conduct was with a minor who was 10 years younger than them, but they're saying specifically that it was not with one of their children, but it was an inter family relation. So is there some sort of cousin incest situation going on here? According to the Ohio Attorney General, Gary Jr and Elizabeth have each been indicted on four charges. So they are each facing two counts of sexual battery and two counts of unlawful sexual conduct with a minor, all of which are third degree felonies. And look, I hope that there was nothing involving the children in any of this. I truly do hope and pray that that was the case, but I don't know if you have these like depraved humans who clearly don't really set the bar very high for anything, I don't know what was going on inside that house and I think that we are just kind of like scratching the tip of the iceberg on this and like figuring out what really was happening, how this all started. And again, I do think that two things could be true at the same time. I think that Elizabeth could still be a victim in some sense, especially not only because of the fact that she was groomed at such a young age, but also if that's all she knew, if that's all she was exposed to, if she didn't know right from wrong because she was so young when she entered into this weirdo family, maybe it's one of those things where it's not like Stockholm syndrome, but she's brainwashed a little bit and she thinks that it's okay or she thinks that it's normal because she's seeing her extended family doing the same thing. I don't know, we certainly are going to learn more, but just to give you a quick recap of the timeline here because I do think that it is very easy to get lost in everything that has happened. The investigators were initially investigating those two other men information then came from that case that led them directly to Gary Ciders Jr. and his wife Elizabeth. That investigation is what led to a warrant to collect Gary's DNA. Then when the investigators went to the Ciders home in June to execute that warrant, that is when they found the 16 children and it became a whole nother case, stacked on top of the Southern case. So I don't know, it's just awful all the way around. It's sad and it seems like every single time we learn something else about this family, it gets worse and worse and worse. But as you know, whenever there's new information, I will of course bring you the updates. Also, let me know if you want me to do a fresh deep dive where I give you the full backstory and we recap that again. We recap how Elizabeth even got involved with Gary Jr. then bring you all the new information, go through the indictments just so that you have all of it in one place. We can certainly do that. So let me know if that is something that you are interested in. But it seems like it is going to get, go from bad to worse pretty soon. - I was going to say I feel like as more information comes out, they're going to be more and more disturbing facts that we learn, especially in these family situations. I feel like to your point, there's extended family potentially now involved. So yeah, so sad. - I know. - Well now we also have another pretty big update in the Lake and Snellin case, which is about now it's the year anniversary when this all first went down. After months of pleading, not guilty, Lakin has now admitted in court that she was in fact responsible for the death of her newborn baby. Now if you need a refresher on this case, let's go back to August 27th of last year. Police in Lexington, Kentucky were called to a home after Lakin's roommates made this horrifying discovery inside her bedroom. They found a deceased baby boy wrapped inside of a towel and placed inside a trash bag in the back of Lakin's closet. And when they called nine on one, they told the dispatcher they had found a blood soaked towel on the floor, along with a plastic bag and what appeared to be a "evidence of childbirth." The baby was pronounced dead at the scene at around 10.30 a.m. that morning. Police then started looking for Lakin and they quickly found her just about five minutes away from the home. She was taken into custody to be medically checked out and when investigators questioned her, she had admitted that she had given birth around 4 a.m. earlier that morning, cleaned up the evidence afterward, throwing everything into that trash bag, including her baby. But this is where the story then got very, very complicated because Lakin initially told investigators that after giving birth, she didn't think that the baby was breathing or even alive. But then she had given, if you remember, a very different version of events, saying that she had actually passed out on top of the baby and when she woke up, she saw that the baby was turning blue and purple. And then when she spoke with the hospital staff, she reportedly said that the baby had been moving around a little bit and that the baby had even made a small whimper after he was born. An autopsy later had determined that the baby had in fact been born alive and that he had died from exphyxia by undetermined means. And then just a few days later, on August 31, Lakin was arrested and charged with the abuse of a corpse, tampering with physical evidence and concealing the birth of an infant. She was released on $100,000 bond on September 2nd of 2025 and placed on house arrest at her parents' home in Jefferson City, Tennessee. Now, fast forward to March of this year, a grand jury indicted Lakin on those same charges but added a much more serious charge, first degree manslaughter. She had pleaded not guilty and was released again on house arrest. But that plea didn't last very long because last Friday, August 21, Lakin's selling pleaded guilty to all charges. And what happened at her plea hearing came as a bit of a shock to everybody because unlike a lot of people who choose not to say anything at plea hearings, Lakin did choose to speak. She told the judge, quote, "I was under a lot of emotional stress and my baby came unexpectedly and instead of helping him, I ended his life and afterwards I cleaned up and didn't tell anyone." The judge then asked her how she ended her baby's life and Lakin's response was very direct. I deprived him of oxygen and you can hear that statement here. - I was under a lot of emotional stress and my baby came unexpectedly and instead of helping him, I am sad and afterwards I cleaned up and didn't tell anyone. - Okay, so tell me when you say instead of helping him, you did what? - I ended his life. - How did you end his life, me? - I deprived him of oxygen. - Okay, all right. And did you tell me about this tampering with physical evidence? What did you do with the evidence that could have been collected? - I could put the towels in a plastic bag. - Okay, and what about this consoling the bar? - I didn't tell anyone after, okay. - So after all the different explanations she gave, including her initial claim that she didn't believe her baby was alive, followed by the story that she had accidentally passed out on top of her baby, she now has formally admitted in court that she did intentionally deprive him of oxygen. So prosecutors are recommending a 10-year sentence for the manslaughter charge plus one year for each of the other charges. Laken sentencing is currently scheduled for October 16th. So obviously we'll be watching and providing any updates on that. But what are, I mean, obviously what she did was terrible. I do appreciate the fact that she finally did admit to it and what she said in court. I think that she's probably now coming to terms with what happened, it sounds like. - I think so, but also I think that the fact that they're only recommending a 10-year sentence and it's the manslaughter charge and then they had already upgraded it to what did you say second-degree murder? Is that what it was? - It's first-degree murder. - First-degree murder. So she made a plea deal obviously, which with that, not always, but sometimes they will ask you to allocate and say what happened and that's why in her statement, I saw and I watched where the judge was very direct at what did you do and she was very pointed with the questions and the follow-up. And Lincoln did seem very emotional, but I don't have any sympathy for her. What you did was horrible and you then knowingly lied about it multiple times, trying to cover it up. And I can't remember, she was like a beauty queen or she was like a pop, I wanna say cheerleader. - Maybe, yeah, maybe something like that. And I remember the roommates had had concern or the friend who lived there at the time. And to me, it just feels like she thought she could get away with this. I remember too, when she first walked into, was it her arrangement last year? I think it must have been. She was like fully done up to the nimes, like a southern bell wearing a dress, her makeup, all these things to where I think she had thought in her mind she was going to get out of this and she was a privileged young girl and that she had never had anything serious go wrong in her life. And so I think she thought she would escape this. Then when she started realizing they were upgrading the charges, they had evidence, she also had confided that he whimpered. It's like, it's not looking good for you. So then I think she had no other choice, but to accept a plea deal and go with the manslaughter charge in 10 years and hopefully they'll go a little less and she'll get out for good behavior. I'm guessing is what she's hoping. - Was there any doubt in your mind that she intentionally took the baby's life? Did you think there was a chance that she was in shock and maybe fell on top of him? You know, ask me if Alexi Trevizo also didn't know what she was doing. I know after more came out but I know at the time if it was like did this happen and her body like she passed out and something happened to the baby in that time frame. I don't think so because for me and maybe it's different in different situations but like anytime I hear that someone conceals their child in a trash bag and disposes of them like garbage, it's calculated to me. Good point. She can boss well. She's the one who then stuffed her baby in like a trash can inside like after wrapping her baby, I've been evelin up Alexi Trevizo in the hospital trash can. It's like that. There's a disassociation. Yes. And so and then which all of her different lies to cover it up, I think she was just hoping for a Hail Mary. I don't know. That's my thought. At least there's a little bit of justice here and the fact that that baby boy she admitted to what she did. A tough lesson for her to learn but has to has to be done. You guys know I love finding a good deal. 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He reported that his wife Lindsay Barnett had just cut herself and her throat. Direct quote. First responders arrived at the home and there they found Lindsay and she was pronounced dead at the scene. Now I know that this is really confusing, because not only the nuts and bolts of the case, which I'm about to get into, but it also is a Patrick and a Lindsay, like what are the chances? So Patrick told police that he and Lindsay had been having some issues over the past few months and that because of that, he had been sleeping in the basement. The night before, they had what he described as a disagreement. And when he woke up that morning, he said that he went upstairs because he wanted to apologize to Lindsay about the disagreement. He claimed that when he got upstairs, he noticed that the shower was running in the master bedroom. So he walked in and that's when he found Lindsay in the shower with a cut to her throat. But almost immediately, the investigators noticed that the scene didn't really look like she had done this to herself. Because while, yes, Lindsay was in the shower, there was also a huge amount of blood on the side of the bed. Also a plant had been knocked over, there was dirt scattered across the floor. Some of that dirt appeared to have been dragged towards the bathroom, so it didn't really look like she had just not, you know, walked easily and carefully to the bathroom and had done this to herself. It looked like there was some sort of altercation. The investigators also found what they described as quote, "a dainty bloody footprint between the bed and the bathroom." And this footprint appeared to be from a woman, which if she didn't cut herself until she was in the bathroom, how would a bloody footprint of hers get back out into the main bedroom. So here's the really strange part to in all of this. The bed was drenched in blood, but there was very little blood in the bathroom itself. Investigators said that the blood patterns in the bathroom suggested that Lindsay's body had been repositioned. She also had bruises all over her arms, legs, back, hips and even her hands, some of which looked like they were defensive wounds. So the police didn't really think that they were looking at a self-harm situation in this moment. They believed they were looking at a potential homicide that may have actually been staged to look like self-harm. And here's where all of the comparisons start getting drawn together and not even necessarily like alter comparisons, but obviously we're knee deep in the trial right now, we're coming off the heels of a lot of theories against Patrick Clancy and how he staged the bedroom, how he framed Lindsay and all of this. So now you have this other case in Colorado with a guy named Patrick, a wife named Lindsay, where it seems like he did stage this. So people are like, look, it is possible. And you know, you should have seen the comments I've been getting, if people been like, "Annie, see you fucking idiot. It does happen, which I know that it happens. I never said it doesn't happen." But anyway, you can imagine lots of people are interested in this case. So anyway, about two and a half hours after Patrick called 911, the investigators brought him in for questioning. He said that he and Lindsay had been married for about five years. And even though their relationship was a little bit rocky at the moment, there was never any kind of a fair, bad blood or anything that would make this marriage appear to be in turmoil. He said that they were quote working on their marriage and that he was also excited about the possibility of moving back upstairs, because remember he had been sleeping in the basement. He even said that they had recently taken a trip to Scotland so that they could rekindle their relationship. But then he went a step further, and here is where it gets even more similar to the Clancy case. He told the police that Lindsay had suffered from pre-partum and postpartum depression, and that he didn't know what medication she took, if any. So the investigators then asked about a fresh cut that was on Patrick's thumb. He said, and this site kind of gives me the ik, no offense for anybody who does this, but he said that he got it while he was playing in an ultimate Frisbee championship. But I understand why you stutter, you didn't want to come to that reality. It's a sickening reality. I love Frisbee on the beach with my kids. I'm not trying. And actually I don't. I was like, do you? I don't. I don't even like flying kites. But like, maybe that is grounds for divorce. If Jeremiah was like, I'm entering the ultimate Frisbee championship support him. I would because I'm a very good wife, but I also worry each other's endeavors. But I'd also say sleep in the basement. Yeah, you're not going to be making out with enough. Sorry for anybody who plays ultimate Frisbee. But so he said that this cut on his thumb was from that, which I didn't know it was so hard to get injured. Yeah, I gave you even worse if you're being injured throwing a Frisbee, like, you know, time to reevaluate your life choices. So however, aside from this, you know, Frisbee injury during this interview, the investigators also noticed that Patrick didn't just have a cut to his thumb, but he also had several scratches on multiple parts of his body. They also said that these scratches were consistent with fingernail scratches. And of course, as we know, potentially defensive wounds. Patrick though said that those injuries also happened during the same ultimate Frisbee tournament. So like, are these are just aggressive? I feel like it was such like a body contact sport. Like, isn't the point of Frisbee to like throw it like Courtney Cleaney claims she threw the knife and like, far away, not like, and apply your eyes out in my team member in Jiu Jitsu, who never even came in with injury. No, I know. Like, okay. Like, if you're getting this injured in Frisbee, I like how coincidental of timing. Maybe it's time to enter a hopscotch. something a little safer. So the investigators obviously were like, uh, this guy is probably full of shit, right? And they also noted that during the interview, Patrick was sobbing loudly, yet they didn't see actual tears. So I mean, performative on all sorts of levels. And of course, while that alone itself wasn't proof that he did anything to Lindsay, it didn't look good. And investigators weren't not at all convinced by what they were seeing, what they were hearing. It just was not adding up. Also, coupled with that, remember the crime scene itself, blood in the bedroom, blood on the sheets, her bloody footprint by the bed, it just was not adding up. But they didn't have enough evidence, at least not concrete evidence. So Patrick was released after a few hours while the investigation continued. But then the case took a little bit of a turn because that same afternoon at around 2.45 pm, a woman who identified herself as Patrick's girlfriend called this batch and she requested a welfare check on him, which this kind of pisses me off a little bit. You're not even trying to be an amber fry in the situation and like, tell the police, oh shit, I'm seeing what's on the news or I heard what happened. I'm the girlfriend. You're calling in a welfare check on this guy, which maybe she told them other stuff and we don't know that at this point, but like, I don't love it. So she had said that she was worried that he had hurt himself because she hadn't heard back from him since around 11 pm the night before. And she said that was very unusual because they texted each other constantly. So during that conversation with dispatchers, she also said that Patrick had told her that he and Lindsay were getting a divorce. She believed that Lindsay was living outside the home and that Lindsay had attempted to overdose on melatonin the weekend before. And that's something I have to look into. I don't know if you can actually overdose on melatonin. Maybe you can. That's so weird. I had this long conversation last night about melatonin with someone from the UK. It's illegal there because she said so many people talking to about melatonin. This girl that's birthday party I was at. And she was telling me she's like, my suitcase is full of melatonin. I'm taking it home. And I couldn't believe it. And she said it's illegal in the UK. And she's like, but people here are giving it to their kids. That's fair. Like Joseph was a little gummy like time to go ahead. I always thought you would overdose from like Ambien or something prescription. But maybe if you take enough melatonin, but also if you had that plan in mind, I would imagine you'd probably try something stronger. And didn't dad used to take a ton of melatonin? Yes. And he would sleep till 3 p.m. Katie and rhythm was like calls like three. I mean, good morning, honey. I'm like, try again in six hours. He had dad open your blinds. It's dark out. God love him. Don't know birds are welcome today. I honestly stay away. Dad, if you can hear us. So anyway, she says that she thought that Lindsay had attempted an overdose on melatonin. Except Lindsay's mother, Donna, she told the police something very different. According to the affidavit, Donna said that Lindsay had struggled with depression in the past, but she hadn't been showing any symptoms recently and that she had never attempted self harm. Her parents said that Lindsay had actually stopped taking her depression medication and had stopped recently because she was feeling so much better. Donna also alleged that Patrick had been verbally abusive toward Lindsay in the past. So then this is all happening on the same day, okay? Then around 7 p.m. Patrick was pulled over during a traffic stop. He was brought in for a second interview with this time as well. Now this time, he admitted that he was in a relationship with this other woman, the woman who had called the police, but he claimed, oh no, my wife Lindsay knew about the affair. She was, quote, fine with it. Which, then if she was so fine with it, why would you go out of your way to say you had a great marriage? You had your ups and downs, but there was never any affair. Why wouldn't you say like we've had a great marriage? We've had ups and downs. We've decided to open it up. I have a girlfriend. She's okay with it. There's nothing nefarious going on. Tell the whole story. So then when the investigators pressed him about the bruises that were all over Lindsay's body, Patrick said that he couldn't explain them because he didn't notice them before. And he further kept the same story that his own marks on his body. The scratches came from playing ultimate frisbee. So immediately after that interview, Patrick was arrested and he was charged with first degree murder because obviously this guy was lying. I mean, no, not, no. He was also charged with tampering with a deceased human body and tampering with physical evidence. So he is currently being held without bond. Now here's where it gets even more sad. Patrick and Lindsay had two children together. And according to their social media posts, they welcomed their second child in February of 2025. And police say both children were present at the home when Lindsay died. So authorities have not released a concrete motive. But obviously, people have started connecting the dots. One theory is that Lindsay discovered Patrick's affair and that something had happened between them while another theory is that Patrick didn't want to go through a divorce. So he allegedly decided to kill her instead. But there's also speculation about the woman that Patrick was having an affair with because of the dainty footprint that was found in the bedroom. Because just like people are attacking Rachel, Patrick Clancy's new wife, people are also wondering if this woman could have been at the house or somehow involved in the murder. But at the time of this recording, I want to be clear she has not been charged with anything, she has not been implicated in anything. I think it's just people theorizing and trying to make sense of the situation. But like I said, there are a lot of comparisons that people are making between this case and the Lindsay Clancy case. Because a lot of people have noticed the similarities, the names, the postpartum depression, the allegations of an affair, a potentially staged scene, which again, none of those allegations have been proven in the Clancy case either. They're just theories. But it's like the timing of this case. It couldn't be happening at a worst time for Patrick Clancy because there's already so much speculation. Like just laser focused in his direction. And now you seemingly have this man named Patrick who actually did what they're accusing Patrick Clancy of doing. And so it looks like it is even more probable than people thought. I mean, the biggest questions right now though are pretty obvious. I mean, what actually happened in that bedroom? Who left that bloody footprint behind and was Lindsay's death connected to Patrick's affair? So more to come, probably a deep dive coming soon. Lots of thoughts there. But number one, my thought is it's a big reach to try to compare these because it's not like that with this sounds like more. And I could want to know your opinion. Does this seem like it could potentially have been more likely to be premeditated or in a heated moment where she does find out something and it wasn't planned. And then coincidentally, this trial is happening. So it's like the low hanging fruit versus let me think this whole thing out to replicate this. Oh, I don't think he was trying to replicate anything. Maybe, but I guess that's where it'll get interesting when the discovery comes out. What was in his Google search history? Did he hear about the trial? I mean, I would imagine he must have seen things on TikTok because everybody who does eat people who don't even follow true crime or seeing it. But I don't think that that's what gave him the inspiration for. Yeah. And then also the woman, if she was involved and then called in the Wealthler check, that's just stupid. Yeah, I don't think she's involved. I think people are just pulling that in. So I don't know. Deep dive is a come in and we will see what happens. Wow. I know. Well, this next one is also a very shocking and disturbing one that popped up on my feed last week. And it has to do with a mother and son. So we're going to get into it. Just after midnight on Thursday, August 20th, police were called for a Wealthler check on 18-year-old Caroline Heintz after her parents hadn't heard from her for several hours. Now, Caroline had just left their home around 9.30 on Wednesday night telling her family that she was going to go to Target and then go back to her dorm at Penn West University. But when her dad checked her location, he saw that she had stopped at her boyfriend Roy Smoser's house. Then about 30 minutes later, her location showed her moving again. But by now was after midnight and Caroline wasn't answering her calls or her texts. Now, Caroline's dad had an air tag in her car. So he gave police the location when he called in that Wealthler check. And less than 20 minutes later, officers did find her jeep near a library just outside of the Penn West campus. But right away, they noticed something was very wrong because there is blood both inside and outside of the vehicle. And when officers opened the back hatch, they found Caroline's body inside. She had a wound to her chest, an investigator said that she had fresh grass stuck to different parts of her body, including inside of her mouth. According to the affidavit surveillance footage from the street show a man wearing blue latex gloves driving Caroline's jeep near where it was found. And that man was later identified as her boyfriend Royce. But then investigators noticed something strange. Royce was following another vehicle. The driver of that car was a woman and she was also wearing latex gloves. Investigators pretty quickly identified that woman as Royce's mother Rachel Moser. And within about 12 hours, police had both Royce and Rachel in custody. Now Royce's interview is where things get really disturbing because he told investigators that Caroline came to his house where he lived out with his dad that night around 10, 15 pm. And they sat in her car in the driveway for a while talking about their relationship. And after a while, he said that conversation went a little bit south. Royce said he got really angry. He couldn't remember why. And then allegedly told police, he quote, had the demon take over him. And according to Royce, that demon told him to stab Caroline. He said that he told her, wait, I have something for you. And then when inside of the kitchen and grabbed a little. large chef's knife. And when he came back outside, that's when he allegedly stabbed Caroline in the chest. Royce told investigators that after he stabbed her, she fell out of her car. Then he dragged her to the back, put her in the back hatch, and drove to his mother's house, which was about 16 miles away. According to Royce, he called his mom just before he got there and told her he needed help moving the car. Royce said his mom told him to pull the Jeep into her garage, gave him latex gloves, helped him clean the vehicle with disinfectant, and then told him to follow her to Penn West. He did, and that's when they left Caroline's Jeep near the library. However, Rachel, Royce's mom, gave investigators a much different story. She said Royce called her in the early hours of Thursday morning and asked her to follow him to Penn West, so he could drop off a vehicle. She claimed that she didn't know Caroline was in the back and denied helping him with any type of cleanup. Rachel also told police that after they dropped off the Jeep, Royce admitted that he had stabbed Caroline and put her body in the back of the car. She said Royce told her that demons had told him to hurt Caroline and that he didn't know whether she was dead or alive. So obviously, two completely different versions of events. Investigators said that after abandoning the car, Rachel took Royce back to her house and told him to take a bath, then a shower, and to change his clothes. She also allegedly put the knife into a garbage bag to be thrown away and even washed his clothes. Royce and Rachel were both arrested later that day. And as Rachel was being taken into custody, the perp walk, as we call it, she covered her face with her hands and said, "I'm sorry." And when reporters asked her why she was sorry, she said that my son took a life. Rachel, what are you going to say to Caroline? What do you have to say, Rachel? Why do you have her son? Do you regret helping? Why'd you help your son cover up a murder? I did not. What did you say you did not help? I'm sorry. What are you sorry for? I'm sorry. What happened last night? Why are you sorry, Rachel? Tell us why you're sorry. Royce is now being charged with criminal homicide, two counts of tampering with evidence, two counts of abuse of a corpse, and obstruction of justice. And Rachel is being charged with hindering the apprehension of a fugitive, tampering with evidence, abuse of a corpse, and obstruction of justice. And both were denied bail. And the tragedy here is that Caroline was just 18 years old. She had just graduated from Peter's Township High School in June and was about to start her college career at Penn West, where she'd committed to play Division 2 Soccer. And her first game was actually scheduled for this weekend, which August 29th. And instead, now her family is mourning her death. Her parents released a statement saying what happened is a parents' worst nightmare, and that had been devastating for their family, friends, and the entire community. They described Caroline as kind, smart, and beautiful, saying Caroline was loved by all. I have some thoughts. One, I'm not buying the demon's story for a single minute. A demon overtook your body and said to do this. But yet, you have the time to get out of the car, go to the kitchen, grab a knife, say you have a surprise for her, come all the way back to the car, and then stab her, like, maybe I could possibly entertain that if he had a knife on him. And he was like, the demon took over and I grabbed it and I stabbed her. Also, the mom saying she thought she was just helping him drop off the car. Then why were you wearing latex gloves? Yeah. Like, and the fact that she, like, look, I'm the fact that she's saying, I'm sorry that my son took a life. Where's your accountability? It's giving Aiden Fouci's mom when she covered and washed the blood out out of his jeans. Like, I get it. We all want to protect our parents and you never know what you'll do. Or yeah, we all want to protect our kids. Yeah, I don't have parents. Well, that too. And you never know what you'll do in a situation like that. But I don't believe it. Well, when I first was reading this story and I heard the demons thing, I thought, wow, this is becoming more and more common in these explanations from people. So either A is everyone having this mental crisis where they truly feel their demons. Or is that again, a low hanging fruit that you're grabbing? And also, it's young love. They're 18. I don't know how old he was. But like, you know, you're 18. I understand young love, those big feelings. And we all have had like big, impulsive feelings of that age. So name those feelings. It's not a demon. Where you just have to learn to cope with those. It's jealousy and tidal man. Exactly. Exactly. Helplessness in a situation. Yeah. Yeah. Exactly. So I just, I can't imagine at that age, what would make you feel like that's your only solve for a relationship problem. And the poor dad, could you imagine? I mean, you know, these days we're tracking everyone's location. So that feeling when you immediately are like, where what's going on? I love the air tag. I mean, everybody has life 360 or find my friends. But yeah, I love the idea of putting an air tag in a car. That's a great tip. So note to self and note to all of you air tag your vehicles. I should have done that when my car got stolen. Well, you don't want the car back. But I got it back. My car got stolen and they found it in Chulavista and they gave it back to me like three weeks after it was stolen. And I was like, I don't want this piece of shit car now. Like the one memory I have of that car is when you wanted to get a car wash. And this is back when you weren't as clean as you are now. It was waterproof. So you would hose down the inside. And I was like, or five. I will die on the hill that the Honda element is elite. Okay. It's like, even the back seats, it's kind of like theater seating where you're up higher. There's so much space you could hose it out from the inside because it's kind of like a camping car. I had a lot of nice sleep, not sleepless, but like restful nights in the back of that car because I wasn't going to drink and drive because I'm not a monster. And I had pillows back there, me and Morgan in front of the spaghetti factory in downtown Fullerton. You know, Toasty came through. That was my car's name. Toasty really came through in those days. That's why I was so desirable to those things. I know. Shout out Morgan if you're listening. You remember Toasty. Okay. Let's get into the Lindsay Clancy trial updates here because a lot has happened over the last couple of weeks and a lot has happened already this week. But one thing that really stood out to me was that the defense has really started highlighting one very important part of their case. The male voice that Lindsay says she heard that was telling her to kill her children. So starting with last week, one of the forensic psychologists, who was called to the stand, had testified that he had met with Lindsay approximately 60 times over the past three years. During one of those early meetings, he said that he helped facilitate a phone call between Lindsay and Patrick. He testified that Lindsay told him that she had heard a male voice ordering her to kill her children and then to take her own life, telling her that she had no other choice. And according to this psychologist, Lindsay said that the last time that she heard that voice was January 24th, 2023, which also is the day that her children were killed. Then later that week, the hospital chaplain who had met with Lindsay while she was admitted took the stand to testify. She said that she had met with Lindsay at least 14 times while Lindsay was hospitalized, starting on January 31st. The chaplain testified that Lindsay was still covered in tubes, wearing a neck brace and just in a very rough shape. When she told her during their first conversation, quote, "I'm so glad that my children are safe." She also said that Lindsay repeatedly talked about hearing a male voice. According to the chaplain, Lindsay said that the voice told her that if she didn't follow its commands, she and her children wouldn't be safe. This has been a big point of conversation throughout all of this. Was she suffering from a psychotic break in this moment of psychosis? Was she hearing, of course, people alleged that it was Patrick's, but she was hearing these audible voices inside her own head to where she truly believed, according to the defense, that her children would not be safe without her and that if she was going to take her own life, she needed to take theirs as well, which does go hand in hand with Lindsay's own recollection of saying she remembers telling the children, quote, "Go to God, baby," while she was killing them. Then to tell the chaplain, one of the first things she says to them, "I'm so glad my babies are safe." I don't know. Again, nobody knows the truth, but Lindsay and what she truly remembers and what happened in those moments, but those things do align with one another. So then, at the end of the week, the defense called Dr. Philip Resnick, a forensic psychiatrist who specializes in philocyde, also known as the killing of a child by a parent. So his testimony was pretty significant, because he testified that Lindsay was, quote, "clearly psychotic" on the day that she killed her children and that she was not in control of her actions. He told the jury, it was almost like she was a puppet and someone else was pulling the strings. He said that Lindsay was suffering from severe depression, shows symptoms consistent with bipolar disorder and that she reported hearing that commanding male voice. He also testified that Lindsay had developed a delusional belief that if social services took her children or if she died, her children would suffer without her. She believed that they would be better off dying with her and going to heaven. Now, part of why this testimony was important was because Dr. Resnick is pretty well known for testifying in the 2006 retrial of Andrea Yates and if you don't know Andrea Yates, she killed her five children back in 2001 and she was ultimately found not guilty by reason of insanity. So a lot of people believe that his credibility and his experience and a trial similar to this one could really be good for the defense. So then fast forward to this week and there was a pretty big issue that came up. Last week, we talked a little bit about how the prosecutors had asked Patrick's mother who was a Catholic, whether she understood that murder was a "mortal sin" and the defense objected and the question was shut down immediately, but it had a lot of people very upset. And that same phrase came up again this week. This time, a forensic psychologist was testifying about a conversation that he had with Lindsay involving her Catholic upbringing and also her belief that she and her children would be together in heaven. He said that he asked Lindsay, "Isn't taking your life a mortal sin?" Now obviously, after what happened last week, Lindsay's attorney immediately objected. There was a sidebar and then the jury was actually removed from the courtroom. And what came as a little bit of a surprise to some is that after the jury left, the defense called for a mistrial. Full blown asked the judge to find a mistrial, even though Reddington acknowledged like, "Look, we have obviously gone through a lot. It has been weeks. It's been exhausting for everyone. It's been a lot of work. But I have no other choice in this moment, but to call for a retrial, accusing prosecutors of intentional misconduct, arguing that this was now the second time that religion not only was brought into the courtroom, but had been brought before the jury." He said, "It's a concern I have because this is just over the top. It's the same thing again, talking about religion, talking about heaven, talking about killing people, and the impact that it would have on Lindsay as well as her children." The prosecution said that the comment was unintentional, and they pointed out that they didn't ask about religion, but that the witness brought it up himself and didn't mean any harm by it. The judge ultimately denied the mistrial request, but he reprimanded the prosecution, saying, "The religion that the defendant was raised is absolutely an inappropriate area of testimony." So then when the jury was brought back in, the judge told them that the comments were immaterial, irrelevant, and that they needed to be disregarded. And he excused them for the day. Now at the time of this recording, because I know that there were a couple more people who were set to testify, closing arguments, and all of that. Right now, the defense has rested its case. The prosecution is finishing up its rebuttal with the last few witnesses, but if closing arguments have not started at the time that this episode publishes, then they are going to start very soon, but I think more than likely closings have already started. So then the jury will be deliberating, and a verdict will be coming soon. So after more than three years of waiting and discussing this case, we should know the outcome very soon. I will let you know as soon as we figure that out. It's funny that you were talking about the religious peace of this, because that was going to be my question, too, was like just, was it religious based on what was her background, because voices and demons oftentimes are linked to people with the extreme religious beliefs, but I didn't know if it was more psychosis situation could be linked to that. So that is interesting, not that that changes what happened, but just yeah. So we'll see what the verdict is. In the very beginning of this trial, I thought that it would be a no-brainer that she would be found not guilty by reason of insanity. However, I am seeing a lot of fair arguments that believe this was more planned out and pre-meditated. And so I'm not sure what the jury will believe. We know it only takes one person, right, to be a holdout. So we will see what happens. I'll imagine if there would have been a mistrial. I know. Well, I mean, who knows if the jury is deadlocked, still could be a mistrial. So and then I don't know if the state will once again file charges. If they'll pursue it again, we'll have to wait and see. So I will keep you updated as soon as we know that it probably will happen on a date where we are not recording, I would imagine. So that update will come via Instagram. So if you don't follow me on Instagram already, it's at underscore Annie Elise. All right, guys, thank you so much for tuning in to another episode of headline highlights. I will be back with you on Monday with an all new deep dive into a case. And you know what case it is. I'm going to just tell you right now, the crazy ass case coming out of Philly, the serial killer. They say he's like the biggest serial killer potentially in 50 years. He has a scariest face. I think I've ever seen in my goddamn life. And we dug into like newspaper archival, his family tree, his background, all the missing women. It is diabolical. Scary. So scary. So that is coming on Monday, because I've seen your DMs. Guys, I read them. I don't let it leave you on red. I see them and I act on them. All right, until the next one, be nice. Don't kill people. Don't cover anyone's murders. Just get a divorce. Just get a divorce. And be a good human. All right. Farewell. Bye. [BLANK_AUDIO]