If you want to pump your body and expand your mind, there's only one place to go. Mite, ob-mite, up with your hosts. Salta Stefano, Adam Schaefer, and Justin Andrews. You just found the most downloaded fitness health and entertainment podcast, almost half a billion downloads. This is Mind Pump. Today's episode, we answered live callers questions. People called in, we got to help them and coach them on air. But this was after our intro. Today's intro is 58 minutes long. And then the intro, we talk about fat loss and muscle gain and nutrition. We talk about current events and family life. Look, if you want to be on an episode like this, here's what you do. Email us your question. Send it to mplivecaller.com. Now, this episode is brought to you by some sponsors. The first one is seed. This is the world's best probiotic. Today, I talked about how probiotics have been shown in many, many studies to help with fat loss and muscle gain. It's true. It's not just for gut health. It's not just for skin health. Probiotics help you get to your goals faster and seed is the best. Go to seed.com/mindpump. Use the code 25. Mind Pump. Get 25% off. This episode is also brought to you by Keon. Today, I talked about their essential amino acids. Their essential amino acids contain all of the amino acids you need for protein synthesis. This is the process of building muscle. But most importantly, it's very high in losing, very high in losing 2000 milligrams per serving. Go check them out. Go to get keon.com/mindpump. That's g-e-t-k-i-o-n. com/mindpump on that link. You'll get 20% off. We also have a brand new workout program. Maps upper lower. It's a four day muscle building fat loss split. You're in the gym four days a week. You hear your upper and lower body twice a week. There's a men and women's version. The women's version has more lower body volume, more butt building focus. Then the men's version. And because it's a brand new program, both of them are 40% off. Go to maps upper lower.com. Use the code launch for the 40% off discount. Teacher time. And it's this your time. Oh shit. You know it's my favorite time in a week. One winner this week for Facebook. It's Michael Stankelwitz. Michael, you send the name. I just read to iTunes at mindpump media.com. Include your shirt size and your shipping address. And for the rest of you, if you can leave a review, either an Apple Podcast or Facebook, you have a very good chance of winning. Alright, real quick. If you love us like we love you, why not show it by rocking one of our shirts, hats, mugs or training gear over at mindpumpstore.com. I'm talking right now. Hit pause. Head on over to mindpumpstore.com. That's it. Joy rest of show. When it comes to exercise, there's two main goals that people typically have. Either they're trying to build or they're trying to cut. So make sense if your goal is to cut your cut, if you're trying to build, you go for building. But is this always true? What should you do first? Regardless of your goal, does it make sense to do one versus the other first build or cut first? We're going to break it down. Let's go. I love this conversation just because I feel like we've talked about it so many times in the podcast, but it I still get tons of DMs and questions around. I feel like nobody thinks it should be them. And I know where you're going at this. Right? Like everyone's just like, yeah, I need to lose this. I'm a little weak to lose. Yeah. So what do you think about this? You know, it's just like we just talked about that. And this is what everybody should do. I don't care how much weight it is. And so I still think it's not very popular. And I still think that you're getting it like you go to a doctor, right? And your 50 to 100 pounds overweight and cholesterol is high blood pressure is high. Doctor says to you right away, you need to lose some weight right now. Right now. Cut your calories. It's the approach for sure. Yeah. And so and it's coming in from medical advice too. So I think we're having to counter that a little bit, which makes it more challenging. So you have you have that factor. And I still think it's unpopular. I don't think it's the most popular way to get in shape. It's very unpopular. So so let's just kind of explain what each one is first before we get more into it. Right. So building is the attempt to try to gain usually lean body mass really do people try to gain body fat. That's sometimes very rarely. Sometimes the case, but usually it's like, okay, I'm trying to build or gain. It's muscle. You're trying to gain and then cutting this obviously is the attempt to lose weight or to be more specific lose body fat. Here's what's involved with both. Sometimes people think building and cutting has to do mostly or all with the exercise. Oh, you want to build a lift weights. You want to cut your cardio. That's actually not the case. In all cases, strength training or lifting weights has a great effect. So whether you want to build or cut, you want to strength train. We've talked about that in previous episodes, but there's more that goes into each of these right building isn't just strength training. It's also strength training plus eating in a way that fuels more active tissue being built. Right. So I have to feed myself sufficient calories and protein in order to build cutting also involve strength training. I'll just real quick. The data shows strength training is one of the best forms of exercise for fat loss mainly because it preserves muscle, but cutting involves the where you cut your calories below what you're burning at the attempt to burn body fat. So that's really the big difference. And so it sounds obvious right. Well, I'm trying to lose a lot of weight. Why would I even attempt to build like why would I eat in in a way to fuel more tissue and I try to get rid of body fat, which is also a tissue. Why would I do that that makes no sense. And so I'm going to just speak to that just for a second. The most important thing when you to consider with any goal, whether it's building or losing even though losing is the or cutting is the more popular goal. The number one thing we need to consider is, is this approach going to last forever? We have to consider that because that's the biggest thing to consider a small percentage of people actually accomplish what is considered a significant amount of weight loss when they're trying to lose weight and the way they identify that is about 5 to 10% of your body weight. Most people a lot of people want to lose more than that, but that's just how they identify that. So there's a small percentage people even accomplish that. But other people that accomplish that over 90% of them gain the way back. So what you're looking at is you're going to fail if you do this the way that you've done it before or the way that everybody tries to do this. So the number one thing to consider is, how can I do this in a way that sets me up to be able to maintain this forever? So that's the context that we need to start with before we get into the conversation. Otherwise it makes no sense because if I tell somebody who wants to lose 60 pounds, which we're going to get to, cool, you want to lose 60 pounds, you're overweight, we're going to focus on building, you're going to think I'm crazy. Like that's not what I told you. I told you I need to lose weight. Why are you telling me I need to gain? That makes no sense. But when you understand this from the perspective of we need to figure out how to do this in a way to where that weight stays off, then it starts to make a lot of sense. Yeah, I think the urgency really pushes you to like you can take on, you know, a lot more stress and a lot more work in terms of trying to push through and just, you know, white knuckle it. But I don't think a lot of people look at when you get to this place that you want to get to this desired weight. Once you get there, like what does your lifestyle look like? What is that? What does that entail? Like how, you know, how good is your energy going to be? How good is your sleep? How strong are you going to be? Like are you, you're just happy because now you're this number on the scale. And that's really like the desired outcome is to get this number on the scale. But how do you live in that? That's right. And that's just like something that I just don't think people think that that like through to that to that degree was this inspired by the response you had to the girl that I think she's like a partially. Okay, Kimberly. Yeah, we'll talk to that later. Actually, I actually want to make sure I bring that up. Yes, it is. And so in the reason why I asked that because there's another layer to this too that I think it has has to be considered is that the context at which most people that are attempting this, you know, cut that they want to go on to because they want to lose weight really ever is at their first time. And they've done this multiple times and, you know, maybe maybe what they thought was a success because they had temporary success where they lost 30 pounds. So they think, oh, that worked. Yeah, that worked. When I just ate the salads and I ran on the treadmill and I did that thing I lost 30 pounds before I went on that diet where I only ate meat or whatever the thing is, right. And they've done that maybe multiple times. And over multiple times of doing that, what has happened is their body is adapted to this. And so part of the reason why it's such a bad strategy to go right into just cutting calories and increasing activity is a lot of people where they're where their metabolic rate is at currently is just not a great place to start coming from rarely ever did I get somebody who needed to lose over 50 pounds. And that had not gained and lost it many times before they had come to me and why they had finally come to me is because they were just pleading at them. I don't feel like I eat that much. I only eat this much calories and yet I can't seem to lose any weight. And that's because over time they've done this yo-yo dieting that is just all it's done is continued to lose muscle, slow the metabolism down. And they're at this place now where they still have all this weight on but they don't feel like they eat very much. And it's like this is a terrible place to start a cut from because it's almost guaranteed.
you're going to fail because to Justin's point, considering lifestyle and where you're going to end up energy and strength and, you know, can you maintain that diet and that way of eating forever? No, no, you can't take you from 2,800 calories down to say, you know, 1,300 calories to lose your hundred pounds and maintain that forever. Even if you have the ability to whitenuckle that and get there, the likelihood that you're going to maintain that the rest of the time. You're like, shit, once you do that. Yeah, you're going to feel terribly, you're going to have lost a ton of muscle. You're going to be hard to eat, hard to eat anything. You'll have no flexibility in your diet ever again. And if you did it like a lot of these people, like you, we were referring to this girl Kimberly, these workouts where you're just punishing yourself for pushing so hard. It's like, that's not the state of, no, I'll use a money analogy. Let's say you have a job, you get paid X amount of dollars per hour. And so you say to yourself, I want to make twice as much money. So what I'm going to do is work twice as many hours. Okay. So instead of working 40 hours a week, you're now working 80 hours a week. And sure enough, 80 hours a week makes you twice as much money. But eventually, what will probably happen is you'll be like, this is way too much work. My quality of life isn't great. I'm working twice as many hours. I got to go back to my old schedule. And then what happens is you start earning half as much as you were because now you're working 40 hours a week. Versus another approach, which is like, hey, I want to make twice as much money. I'm going to figure out how to get my money to make more money for me. Yeah. And so I'm going to figure out how to invest it and place it in areas where by itself or with very little work for me, it starts to generate more revenue and more income. So then 10 years down the line, I'm still working 40 hours a week, but I'm making twice as much money. Far more, far more sustainable. So I'll make a statement. If I could dramatically speed up everybody's metabolism, who was listening to this podcast, weight loss will be much easier. I think this is a true statement, right? If your metabolism could suddenly burn a thousand more calories a day, it would be a lot easier to maintain your body weight. Would be a lot easier to lose body fat because you're just burning more calories. If I can improve insulin sensitivity and your hormone profile, that would make it a lot easier as well. I mean, that's a fact. And I don't think anybody would ever argue or debate that. So that's the thing we need to understand is how can I set myself up for something that is sustainable? And the way that you do that is you point to and you aim for a better metabolic rate or a to put it in different terms, maybe to simplify it, but a faster metabolism. Let me get a faster metabolism. So I could just burn more calories all the time. Is that even possible? Can I do that? Yes, reliably. You could do that. The way you do that is all the things that you would do to build muscle in a serious way. Feed the body, build the muscle and what that does is that sets you up later. Here's why this is difficult. It's difficult for a couple of reasons. One, I'm not, I'm not telling you to lose weight right now. People, and here's a problem. When you make the decision lose weight, if you're 60 pounds overweight, first of all, at one point, you were 20 pounds overweight, at another point, you were 30 pounds and 40 pounds and 50 pounds. And what you've probably done is you like you see it, you know what's happening, but you maybe avoid it or you don't think about it or you just keep kind of keep going every once in a while. Oh my god, I'm getting so much weight, but then you kind of put it in the back of your mind, then you finally make the decision. Like I can't handle this anymore. I need to lose weight. The last thing you want to do is wait longer. When you finally made that decision, the last thing you want to do is be like, I'm going to not lose weight for three more months while I'm working out to try to build. No, I want to lose weight right now. So that's number one reason why that's difficult. Number two reason is because it looks different. If I took somebody who want to lose weight and I had them run like crazy every single day and I cut their calories significantly, they will see fast weight loss on the scale initially. If I take that same person and say we're going to boost your metabolic rate, I'm going to build muscle on you. I'm going to reverse diet. In other words, I'm going to bump your food intake. We're going to have quality food, high quality food, hit protein targets. I want you to get strong. We're going to build muscle. You're not going to see weight loss on the scale for a little while. Not for a little while. You have some body comp change. You'll get leaner builds a muscle. The scale is probably not going to move much. And it's going to take us a few months or so to get your metabolic rate where I want. Before we even attempt the weight loss or the fat loss. And so that takes some patience and trusting the process. But here's where I'll just encourage people. Did your approach work before. In other words, did it work long term? Did you keep it off? No, stop trying the old way. This is how you lose weight and you get those results consistently and how it becomes sustainable. We need to prime your body to be able to live in a world where you're surrounded by food. We need to boost your metabolic rate. We got to make you strong. Let's start there. Then start the cut. Let's set you up for some long term. It's also really difficult when you're carrying that much excess body fat onto. And you're going about it the correct way. Like you're saying, where we start to reverse diet and build muscle. And even though there's body comp change happening where they might have lost three pounds of fat and added three pounds of muscle, which will show no change on the scale. But that's a significant change on their body. It's not significant enough that person can see it. You know, they're not going to see it. And in fact, all it takes is one day of kind of eating out of bounds a little bit and you know, high sodium or maybe you ate something that inflamed you a little bit or maybe you had some stress or you didn't get very good sleep. Next day, and also in your body's holding a little extra water. So it really can be mentally challenging for the person who is going about it the right way. And just had a poor night of sleep. And they'll wake up and they'll look at themselves in the mirror and get on the scale and might possibly see one pound go up. And I look in the mirror and I look fatter. I don't look like I'm getting better. And it's really this is why I think personal training and coaching is so paramount to this person who has been challenged with this for so many years who they've tried to do this on their own. And they logically know this is right the right approach. But then every time they go about doing it, everything tells them this is wrong. It's not working for me though. Yes, it's because this success is not recognizable in the beginning. This is what good coaches do a good job. First off, this is one of the reasons why I would tell people and why we encourage clients we're working now to not weigh themselves during this period of time. Don't weigh yourself. It's just going to mess you up. You're just going to look at the scale. And even though you feel better and you're stronger and you might even have people commenting that you look like you're getting leaner. You're going to step on that scale and God forbid it hasn't moved or went up a couple pounds. It's going to throw us off. So don't weigh yourself because the success isn't evident in the old ways that you used to pay attention. Number two, a good coach helps highlight the ways that the success is evident during this period of time. Because although the scale isn't changing in the first 90 days, you're way stronger. Oh my god, you feel better. Your energy is better. You're sleeping better. You're moving better. And you have to bring this is so crazy to say this and people listening might be like, what this is not this is true all the time. You have to point this out to people because they don't even pay attention to it. Yeah, like I'll bring this up with clients. Like, well, how do you feel right now? Well, man, I'm having one less coffee today. I feel actually really good. Now that you say it, I feel really good. You ever hear that now that I should is even bother me anymore. I have no pain. My libido's up. Like, yeah, right. You're right. You're right. I feel way better. And it's like, it's like almost surprising to them that that these things are happening. They weren't really paying attention. But success is just not evident when what you're paying attention to are the old ways that you measure success. And when you first start by building the foundation, you can't even tell a house is being built yet. It just looks like a bunch of demo. And so this that's what makes it so difficult. But again, I'm going to just encourage people. The old way that you've done this before didn't work. Why are you going to do it again? What's different about this time? You think you have suddenly this new sense of discipline because I'm going to tell you right now, it's probably not true. And I know this because of the data. You're going to fail if you do it the old way. Why not try it the right way. Let's boost the metabolic rate, build muscle. Get you strong. Get you to perform better. Then later on, we're going to attempt the cut because here's what happens when you cut first. You walk into a gym and you want to lose 60 pounds and Ralph the gates, you go to a cut. So what do you do? Low calories, lots of activity. Here's what your body does every time every time you do you approach weight loss in that way. Your body tries to slow down its metabolic rate to meet the new energy intake that it's receiving. So in other words, if I'm eating 15 hours a day, and that's a cut for me, and I'm moving a lot. So my body is trying really hard. It is using all of its adaptive abilities to try to learn how to burn 15 hours a day. That's what it's trying to do. Because if it doesn't do that, you're going to die eventually. If 15-hundred calories remains a deficit forever. At some point you'll die because you're not 1500 calories is not meeting your energy demands. So your body doesn't do that. It doesn't just sit there with 3000 calorie energy demands and 15-hundred calorie intake. It learns how to burn 1500 calories. One of the ways it does is it pairs muscle down. So what you do when you go into a cut first is you're literally saying this to your body, hey, can you get a slower metabolism? I know you got a slow metabolism right now, but I'd like a slower. Let's make this way harder. Here's how we're, let's make this way harder. And that's, I'm going to lose some weight, but I'm going to make it impossible to maintain later on because I'd like a metabolism that's so slow that if I, anything other than salad, or I take a day,
off of doing cardio, I end up gaining body fat. So I'd love that frustration. Could you please slow my metabolism down? That's what you're doing when you go into the gym that way. Versus, I'm gonna set this up the right way. I'm gonna get my metabolic rate to hum. So that later on when I do the cut, oh, I got some room. And again, I'm just gonna encourage people again. We worked with people for decades. And now here at Mind Pump, we have clients that work with our trainers routinely. So I'm not like, this is not Pine Sky. Routinely, we see people boosting their metabolic rates by 700 to 800 calories a day. Okay, that's routinely. In some cases, it's extreme in the other direction. Some cases a little less, but routinely, 700 to 800 calories a day through this process. Do you know which cardio you have to do? To burn 700 to 800 calories? - Hour plus a day. - You gotta go for it for an hour or more. And then your body learns how to burn less calories on that as well. And it stops working. How would you like to have a metabolic rate that allows you to burn 800 more calories without a bunch of extra work? And that's why you go into it and you build first. - 100%. - The crazy part going back to doing it the right way, right? Reverse dieting, building muscle is the psychological challenge because logically, it's so obvious to your point about all the other things that we're so unaware of. Like if you blindfold someone or you gave the example of, oh, this person's libido got better, their sleep got better, their strength got better, their energy got better, their skin got better, their hair got better, like, their mood got better, like all these things, they had to drink less caffeine, like all these things that are like, what you tend to see when somebody starts to fuel their body properly, okay? Give them the protein they need, the healthy fats, adequate amount of calories for the exercise that they're doing. You typically see almost all those markers, all those markers move in the positive direction. None of them go down that right off the gates. Yes, like almost right away, but like, because we're so hyper focused on the mirror and the scale, if those don't give me back the feedback I want, I just totally disregard. - Doesn't even matter. - Or don't even pay attention to that, which is crazy. Because there's so many other markers that signal to you, you're going about this the right way. Like this is, you're doing good. Yes, the mirror isn't showing what you want yet. Yes, the scale hasn't shown what you want, but all these other things are pointing that, we're moving the right direction. Yet people will course correct. They'll go, though, but these two aren't showing me what I want, so I'm going to cut the calories now, or this isn't working for me. - They ignore so much that their energy is crap, their strength is crap, they feel like crap, the scale's going down, so I must be doing the right side. Which is while, you know, again, this is connected because it wasn't inspired by that post. There was an Instagram post with a young woman named Kimberly, which you had encouraged me to kind of respond to. And when I watched it, I thought the same thing you did, which is you're going to get a bunch of fitness pieces. So for people listening, this woman gets on, she has a lot of weight to lose, and she talks about how difficult it is, and how she's working out, and it's so hard, and it sucks, and she's like, "In this way, it's tough. "It's really hard." But I saw this clip, and I'm like, "Oh, I guarantee a bunch of fitness people are going to get on and just communicate the wrong stuff. They're just going to talk to the wrong stuff. You got to have discipline. You got to do this." And you know, just communicating the wrong stuff to people who are in there in that position. I can always tell, by the way, somebody talks, when if a fitness person speaks to something like that, I can always tell if they have experience training, a lot of people they don't. - Oh yeah. - Yeah. - Because if you have no experience, - Shows right away. - You're going to talk like you're talking to them. - And you could be super knowledgeable on science-based. Which is what we have in Instagram world, right? We have a lot of smart people that are fresh out of the degrees, or they have multiple national certifications, or they follow the other influencers that are very science-based. And so they understand the science. They understand the math of losing 200 pounds, and they understand how important discipline is. And so this is what they communicate. And yeah, the difference between that person, and that's, I sent it over because I knew that it was going to attract a lot of that. And I knew that you would communicate it so much better. And I wanted to be ahead of it before. - Well, what I saw on that video was, yeah, her workout methods weren't the best. Okay. She was doing kind of like what looked like, maybe like group class, type fitness. It's activity, so it's not bad. - High intensity. - But I'm not gonna speak to that right off the gates. Let's talk about the big thing that was more important, which is this poor woman hates it. - Yeah, she hates it. - She hates it. That's her perception. - It's miserable working out. - So that's the thing I'm gonna speak to you, 'cause I know this is a trainer. We're not even gonna talk about what you're doing yet. We need to talk about how much you hate this, because I don't care what you do. I don't care how effective it is. Even though her workout was not the best, if I gave her the most effective workout of all time, and she hated it, she didn't happen. - She's still gonna fail. - Yeah, so we got to talk to her. - And she made it that point. - That's right. And we got to speak to that. - Yeah, so, and a good coach would, and if Kimberly's listening, you work with a good coach, you're successful right with both the roof. You don't work with a good coach. If you work with like a bootcamp instructor, or somebody's gonna throw exercise at you, or just yell motivation at you, it's really just, it'll be temporary. - Or even if you have someone good in your corner who understands the science and spitting all the most knowledgeable stuff out of you, it's more complicated than that. It's not just that. There's other factors to consider. And number one, being your relationship with that exercise. - Totally. - That we have to fix that first and build that, before we-- - Which is doable. - Before we even attempt the best, whatever. The best diet, the best fill in the blank, we have to first work on that. And that becomes a priority over what is the best workout or diet for you. And so, and to your point, a good coach understands this. - That's what a good coach does. - Yeah, totally. Anyway, I wanna talk about probiotics, 'cause I've been making this prediction now, probably for the last year, is a sports performance. - It's gonna be-- - Yeah, good probiotics, like high quality probiotics, seed, we work with seed. They're easily the world's best, like not even close. They're cutting edge, they're technology with how they deliver the probiotic. Like it's the best, right? I believe probiotics in the next five years are gonna be the performance enhancing supplement that's recommended. Like it's gonna be like the way, you know, Krateem was talked about for athletic performance. Like you wanna lose fat, take a probiotic. You wanna build muscle, take a probiotic. You wanna recover faster, take a probiotic. Do you think this has to do more with what we're learning about the gut and the cutting edge science or brain relationship or more to do with how terrible the American diet is and how bad we all are that everybody is going to positively benefit for some of that. Which one do you think is the greater factor here? - So let me rewind. - I think let me see what you're saying, 'cause we get where I'm going. - Yeah, I do, let's use Krateem as an example, right? Do we have benefits from Krateem 'cause we should be eating five pounds of meat or do we get benefits from Krateem because nobody's eating five pounds of meat but supplementing extra seems to provide benefits. In other words, are we getting benefits from the probiotics because we have low quality food. - We're deficient in nutrients. - We're deficient in fermented foods. - Almost everybody has some sort of an intolerance to something or would you no matter what benefit from the probiotic? - Yeah. - That's a good question. - I don't know. I don't know what the answer is to that. - But the data is compelling, bro. Like, there's made an analysis on-- - 'Cause they've been around for a long time, Sal. I mean, I don't know when probiotics first came in the market but they've been around for a long time. - They have, they've been pretty bad in the past but they were better than nothing. - Yeah. - But it's just wild 'cause I pulled up, bro, there's a lot of data. Greater weight loss, reduced waist circumference, decreased visceral fat, benefits to exercise performance, like VO2 max. People gain less fat and a high calorie diet when they take probiotics. Then you have strength gains. You have more muscle, lose more fat than a placebo from probiotics. - Yeah, dude. - So I think people, I think that the-- - Everything just works better, it seems like. - It's this, I think it's gonna be the supplement that athletes talk about the most over the next five years. - That's right. - Take your probiotic. - I mean, you still talk-- - Not just for gut health but just for all of us. - You still talk to some of our probiotic and stuff like that. Do you know if it's made its way into that space where that's become part of the, they're regimenous hell with supplementing and stuff like that? I wonder if that's become, I'm so disconnected from that, like all the coaches. So I know probiotic builders take probiotics for digestive health because of the way that they feed themselves. - Right. - So I know that's popular, but I don't know if they're taking it for like muscle gain and fat loss. - Yeah. - You know, so I'm not sure. - Yeah, be interesting. - In the arsenal of things, bodybuilders use, I don't think probiotics really count. - I mean, listen though, it doesn't matter. You know those guys will, even if-- - They'll take everything. - Yeah, I don't care if it moves the needle, the smallest amount, they're taking it all, doing it all. So it'd be interesting to see. I thought that makes some calls and ask around so long as I talk to those some of those guys. But I think it's gonna be like the next five years, they're gonna just, they're gonna push it for just for fitness. Forget health, forget skin health for all this. No, build muscle, burn body fat, probiotic, let's go. - Well, speaking of like performance stuff like that, did you guys watch the fights? - Yeah. - Did you get a chance to, so we got to see Gable Ceeves in his fight. That was great, dude. He's gonna be a beast. - He is a monster. - He is making, he is gonna be a beast, bro. to see a world-class restaurant.
go in and throw hands and win like that. And being that big John Jones's corner. - Yeah. - I mean, I actually want to see him wrestle somebody. It's like, I feel like that's like, it was in his bag. He had that all, if he wanted it, it was just like, but I'm gonna go out there and go, don't ask. - Did he, that one guy that's like a YouTuber that's like, he will just wrestle anybody and he's really good at it. He wrestled him recently in Gable like. - Yeah, yeah. - Did one of those, I don't know what you call that. Like hip toss or what? - Basically, yeah, like, pin-dip. - Justin sent it over, you didn't see it. - No, I don't watch that. - Oh yeah, he got him good. And it's like, I've seen him on a string of just-- - There's dude, taking everybody out. - People don't realize that he got him good. - The level of athlete and performance a world-class wrestler is. - Gold medal. - I mean, you're talking about, you can have three regular dudes go against him in wrestling, all three of them. He would throw him over. - Yeah, it's crazy. - It's crazy. The teacher might have punched, wouldn't be, you know, wouldn't be that hard, I guess. - I mean, we had an opportunity to go to that, right? We had to-- - Well, is that the fight that they were gonna be gonna be gonna be? - Yeah, that was the fight that we had to take it for. So, Kito and IQ is sponsored by, and they invited us to go to that. And so, but I tell you what, I would've been so pissed if I was there and the Connor fight went down like that. - Oh man. - 'Cause you're waiting all night long. - Time-long. - The biggest. - As much as all the other fights were great. They were good fights. - But you're waiting for Connor's return. And that had to be one of the biggest-- - I was so excited for it to go. - Let down main events I've ever seen. - Yeah. - I can't remember a main event where I was like-- - Team Magizam had to happen the White House card. - Oh God. - Everybody watching. Yes, I guess they at least had the most epic card that then follow up. It's kind of hard to follow up something that was like, what was the last time I was like-- - I wonder, it's funny you say that. 'Cause there was a lot of, I remember when I was watching Shob do some commentary back. This was like earlier the year about when that first got released at the White House. And there was a lot of talk of like, you gotta have Connor on that card. - Yeah, I remember. - He's the main part. - And they were mad. - I wonder how much Dana knew that this could happen and didn't want to risk that like that. - 'Cause I mean, there was a lot of controversy. - It was five years of him. - There was a lot of controversy, five years since he fought. - That's a long time. - There was a lot of controversy around the way the White House card was built, that it was gonna be whack. - And it turned out to be one of the greatest cards ever. - How old was Connor and who you fight? - Holy. - He's like 37 or 38. - Are they late 30s? - Yeah. - Yeah, I was talking to my wife about this. People don't realize, well, it's at that level, right? - Oh, always like 32 or something. - When you're at that level. - He's late 32. - When you're at 35 and 38. - When you're at that level, you've been fighting for a while already. There's a big difference when you get to the late 30s and start to get to 40 big difference. - Yeah. - And so when they bring back old fighters who were popular, it's almost always disappointing. I'm trying to think of a time it wasn't. So 37, 34, Holloway. But Holloway's been fighting for so long. So 34 years old. - Yeah, you're gonna five year break either. - Yeah. - I mean, that's the other part too is, and Connor was admitted, partying and living up the life. - Mm-hmm. - Plus the damage you get from fighting. - Like somebody who is playing at that high, like obviously Wild Fighters. - I've obviously MMA is up there with the most elite sports like physically what you need to be at, right? Football and basketball, fighting, all those are all elite sports physically. You need to be at, to be in your late 30s, the amount of discipline, when you look at the people that have done this, like the Tom Brady's, the LeBron James, the Steph Curry's, like the amount of money and dedication and discipline those athletes have put around recovery and taking care of their bodies. Consistently all through their 20s and 30s, to be able to say I've played into my 40s. - My 40s evolved a bit too. - Yeah, yeah. - Yeah, you also are looking at, football is a good example. So Brady was a quarterback. - Yeah. - Okay. The amount of head blows he got is significantly less than other positions, right? As a quarterback, you're not getting blasted like you are a lineman or lineman. - Yeah, unless you're Steve Young, but yeah. - Yeah. - So my point with that is, as a fighter, your time span is, if you're a guy that goes in the ring and just throws punches and gets hit, - Yeah. - That's really taken away your ability to fight long-term. Like I don't know, do you see football players that last a long time that are like lineman or, you don't, right? 'Cause I think they probably have the shortest-- - lineman, yeah, not really. - 'Cause it's just the past. - You have to. It's like, it's too much. - That's an interesting question. I don't know what poor lineman don't get a lot of love as it is. I wonder too that-- - But I think there's a wide disparity. - There's also, well, again, it's beneficial for a lineman to carry himself with 350 pounds. - And that generally speaking is not ideal for overall. - Yeah, but I bet you, if you looked up, okay, so the average career for NFL lineman is three to four years. Doug, can you look up average career for each NFL position? I bet you-- - Oh, yeah, I mean, you-- - I bet you-- - Yeah, but I mean-- - Quarterback is-- - My argument-- - My argument-- - My argument-- - Oh, yeah, for sure. - My argument for that is that they're already in a not optimal healthy body-- - Scrooving down-- - To last that long already. - Yeah. - We're a quarterback, a wide receiver, a running bag, we'll keep themselves in a more optimal shape, just for their position. So it's kind of not fair to compare to alignment. - Well, my point with that is, okay, we use two fighting sports, boxing and Olympic wrestling, which both at a super high level, especially like pro boxing and the Olympic wrestling is, you will see Olympic wrestlers still compete at what I would call older ages or time at late thirties. You often don't see this in boxing. - Well, it has to style thing like me whether or like-- - He doesn't hit. - He doesn't get hit. - That's right. - Yeah, or like forget his name that there was one like boxer that was like, he had like the longest career ever. And it was really because of the amount of hits he took. - What did that say there, Doug? - Limited. - Yeah, so the longest is long snapper, 7.5, a hunter, 6.4, kickers, 5.5, quarterbacks, 5.4. - Oh, I guarantee it's ranked by how often they get hit. - So wide receivers are the lowest it looks like at 3.5. - Yeah, so that's true. - Line-minutes, 3.9. - Wide receivers get hit way more than that. - Well, 3.5 versus 3.9 is pretty close. - I don't know about that. I mean, when you compare a long snapper to a wide receiver, you like that-- - I think, well, I'm gonna speculate-- - I'm gonna speculate a lot of middle cross. - I'm gonna speculate, you guys help me, because especially you, Justin, you played football. Line-min, they connect, they're real close to each other. Still brutal, but they're pretty close. - We see receivers when they get blasted. It's typically high speed, and you're getting hammered. - Yeah, and it's a lot of hands to break out in their patterns, but again, if they do get the ball, and then they're gonna get crushed by those blows, definitely. - I think that that stat is there's way too many factors. I think your body type going into it makes it big difference. I think the way you take care of your body, I think what you're arguing, the hits, I think all those are such-- - Yeah, and all factors. - I think those are all such huge factors that it's not like a position of things-- - No, but when you do practice too, they'll be like running fast. - My argument to this is that when we see these examples, Tom Brady's, LeBron's, Curries, you see these-- - All the energy and time they spend is on-- - Yeah, and they are unbelievably meticulous about it. I mean, LeBron James has laid out his million dollar plus budget that he puts towards recovery. And they have it down to a science of like, he plays a game, then he does this, then he does this, then he does this, and it's like consistent. - Yeah, and they, Steph Curry, same thing. Tom Brady, same thing, they had a-- - What a wonderful lesson-- - For the average person listening right now, obviously none of us here are Tom Brady or whatever, but all of us, if you're listening and you're into fitness, they're gonna want to be able to do this forever. Like my goal is to be able to do this forever, and to do it well for as long as I can, it makes sense that most of my time and energy, or much of it, should be spent towards recovering adaptation. - Dude, I have 100% adopted this philosophy in the last five years of my own training. It's just like, I-- - Like if people spend more time on that than on the beat myself up in the work, everybody-- - Even though I don't even, 'cause I'm the dude's little possible to listen to the most changed guy, I've been so focused for my most of my lifting career on building muscle, or getting shredded. It's like, it's been, or chasing a p, it's like, where I've done all that, right? I've hit good enough PRs in all my lifts. I've accomplished the low body fabricinage. I've got, you know what I'm saying? Like I've built a ton of muscle in my frame. Like chasing any of those anymore is actually not a good idea. I end up getting hurt, and the juice is not worth the squeeze. And so so much of the way I train now is more longevity, recovery, take care of the body. Like how do I feel today? Like, oh, I'm gonna now switch and do this instead. - I was having this conversation with a friend of mine that I've been training, 'cause we were talking about this. And I said, you know, even high level athletes, even pro athletes have an in season and off season. The average person needs the same thing. And for most people what this probably looks like is 90% of the time you're cruising. Literally 90% of your year, if you live a normal life, you got kids, you got a house, you got responsibilities, right? You're not like, you know, independent, wealthy, don't have to work, you just live in the gym, right? Most people have a lives. 90% of your workouts are probably gonna look like cruising. Then you get the 10% where you're sprinting. This is when everything's perfect, everything's going great, you know, for the next four weeks, I'm gonna go after, you know, really, that's right. But most of the time, and I think if you took that approach and you were consistent with it, obviously, it doesn't mean you're not working out, you're still consistent. I think you'd have a wonderful, you know, training,
uh, career. I was talking to somebody in my, in my DM yesterday, because I posted my story of my consistent boring, same meal that I eat or that I prep with every single week and they're asking like, "Oh, what's the, the macro breakdown on that?" I'm like, "I have no idea." And they're like, "What do you mean you have no idea?" I was just, I said, "I haven't tracked a macro like that in a very long time." And they're asking, "So is that, because you've, you've, like figured out, are you happy with where your body is?" I said, "Well, I probably fluctuate between 12 and 15 percent throughout the whole year." Now, and I hit the edges occasionally. I may allow myself to push up to 17, 18. That's normally in my like, "Oh, I need to get my shit together." You know what I'm saying? I've been enjoying the whiskey and the ice cream or something too much or missing the gym too many times in a row. Like, that's that edge, right? And then I had the other edge of like, you said, like, "You know what? I got four or five weeks, Katrina and I are getting ready for Cabo. I'm going to dial it in. I'm actually going to cut back on some things that I know right away." I'm not counting. I'm just like, I know that ice cream, a big bowl ice cream is literally feeding me. Yeah, 900 extra calories. I could easily just say, "I'm not going to do that for a while." Are you really doing 900 times ice cream? Oh, but way more than that. That sounds like someone that sells me being like conservative right there. Yeah. I'm not eating any ice cream right now, but when I was, that, I mean, I'm down 15 pounds in the last, I was, I remember. Yeah, yeah. In my opinion, I was on the edge of that. I was probably 15 to 17% on the upper edge. So I cut out those things really quick. I limit minimize. Still have a drink here in there that I still allow it in there, but it's not as much as it was before and that'll bring me right right back to that range. But I, to your point, that's what it kind of looks like. Is this ebb and flow? I'm not really focused that hard on it and getting in the gym at least between two and four, four is a great week, two is a slow week of training and kind of hovers in that range. It keeps me there. And I can easily manage that and then have the opportunity to sprint to do that and what sprinting looks like is just not missing the gym. That's right. Having those things. And it pulls me right back down to that like 11% range for a while. That's great. That's great. I'm gonna change subject because I saw this. There's this interesting dating app that is exploding in popularity and I'd love your guys' opinions on what you think is happening. I thought they were dying. Well, so let me tell you about this new one. So this new dating app that's getting really popular and here's the difference. So typical dating app is you know, you swipe right, swipe left and the person tells you the interest said you decide if you're interested or not, right? There's a new app called Ditto that is now like exploding all over college campuses. Here's how it works. Here's how it works. Students complete a survey that allows the platforms AI to determine their matches. New pairings are generated every Wednesday and it gives match students the chance to choose a time that works for both. Interesting. So here's why I think this is working. I think the dating apps gave people way too many choices and I think we just want people to I think my wife speculated she thinks that what's gonna get real popular moving forward is what we used to do back in the day, which is friends would try to connect you with people. Oh, I'm curious. I think that's a really good. So trying to find a TV show. It's impossible. It's crazy. When we were I was telling my kids this. I was talking with them in the car and we were watching the World Cup and commercials. Come on. First off, my kids love commercials. I'm like, this is your kids. It's like a streaming kid. It's so weird. You know, commercials are the original reals. It was like little short, you know, reals or whatever. So my kids. So I was talking to them about like, why are we watching commercials now? Like we have to. What do you mean we have to? So I was telling them about how TV was when I was a kid and I was like, you know, when I was a kid. Pop, I didn't pay for the premium. Well, no, we're all tough. You have to walk back in. But I was telling them if you have YouTube premium, you need to watch commercials. Really? Is that what's happening? I pay for something. What happened? Those are tears? Yeah, those tears, dog. So I was talking to them and I'm like, when I was really little before we had satellite TV because I was in next or cable, right? That was the next buzz. A big thing. I'm like, I had three channels to choose from. And I said, and there's like, well, when what would you watch? I said cartoons. When would you watch it's Saturday morning? I had to wake up. And so I was explaining to them and they're like, well, were you bored? Because there was nothing to watch. I'm like, you know, it's funny. No. I said, the choices were kind of made for me. Yeah. And if I scroll in through the 10 channels that I have in a movie's on halfway through, cool. We're going to we're going to watch Predator halfway through again. Yeah. And I think that so many choices. It's just very cool. So it paralyzes us. Do you remember when you guys first started buying video cassettes? I do. Yeah. Like my buddies and I got into having buying our own video cassettes when we were in high school. So you know, we don't have a lot of disposal income. So being able to afford a $20 video cassette, which is what they were back then was a lot of money, especially the dollar back then, right? So it's like $1,000. Yeah. But it's probably a full days of work. Yeah. So I remember I mean, over my senior year, I think I collected 13 video cassettes, you know, and I must have watched those same all the time, 13 movies. I can picture it up. I had it up on this like bookshelf thing with all of them. And it was like, what am I watching tonight? You know, it was just like, yeah, it was I rotated between 13 for like probably four years. Yeah. So I think these dating app is popular because kids are so sick and tired of like having us here. Just, you know what? You just I have another theory on that. I think and you know that because I know we've all we've all watched the show. Blind dates been like become like super popular. And there is something about it that I I mean, of all the the bad parts of it, the good part about it is it forces these people to really get to know them each other probably more than the average kid gets to know the person they're about to date up until I don't know, a few years ago, it's just swipe. Look at a picture. Oh, I like. I mean, maybe you look at a little bit of their profile, but it's like you're it's all visual. Yeah, it's all visual or you put in a super unrealistic like filters. Yeah, he's got to be over six foot. He's got to make over six figure. You just narrowed it down to like five percent. Two percent. Yeah. So fun. Yeah. So I think that allowing filling out a survey, which is probably I'm sure you're answering a bunch of questions about things you like things you're into using AI to match that as probably nothing to do much if or very little with the visual side. And it's like these are the things that your core value is giving you to you. Yeah, it's in the work for you. Yeah. So I do think that they're that's better than what what that was out there. When you get challenged, it's real. It's like we're just so spoon fed our own bias for everything. And so that's it. Like I'll just look and see, oh, you know, I like this because of these traits and all these things, but like you don't the thing is like people don't take a chance anymore to find out what they don't like. They didn't think they'd like that, but now they like it. Oh, for sure. Because it's like, go hang out with you. Nobody's challenging any of their ideas or thoughts like their experiences. Because it's like you can pretty much prescribe everything. So that makes friends. This is why that that's why this app will also fail to your point and why we have to just get back to going and old school and figuring that out because there's so much value in working through that conversation. Oh, you, oh, you, bro, I just read. Oh, you're you're a Republican. I'm Democrat. Oh, like, yeah, there's so much value in how that plays out. I got a study that I'm sure. And I think this is the accurate number. A six foot man who makes $60,000 a year, a guy whose five foot eight would have to make $174 grand to be as attractive to a woman. You saw this? Yes. So the so he would have a guy's five eight was either five seven or five eight would have to make $174,000 to be considered as attractive as a dude that's six foot who makes 60 grand. Now, here's the thing. I get that on paper. I get that fine. That's fine. Man have their preferences. Women have their pride. I get it. But here's the thing. A woman could meet a guy whose five eight who's making 60 grand, but she meets him and he's got all the characteristics of somebody that's like, man, he's hardworking. He's a go getter. He's got purpose. Yeah. I see his potential. You're not going to know that because you're just swiping because he doesn't make the amount of money that you think he needs to make route the gates. So you miss out on this potential relationship because we're not meeting up with each other. You know where people are meeting up, by the way, where the big social area is now is gyms. Have you guys seen that? All the stats is pretty cool. All the traditional places that people used to meet up and hang out are declining in attendance. But gyms are going up. That makes me think of this shoe brand. The guy has come over and it's like totally like platform because you like three inches or something. It's like blends it. Yeah. They try and make it look like shoes. They give you like this much left for the whole short. Dude, it's like push up broad. Look at looking after them short kicks. Oh, man. You don't want to get caught in those. You know what I'm saying? Just like the stuff in the bra, you don't want to get caught with it. He's like, I guess it kind of works. But for one in done maybe by then it's too late. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, shoes are off. She's like, why are you keeping your shoes on? Yeah, it's like the last thing you take off. Shorts, I remember this. But shoes are on still. I'm gonna get you Sucka. What are the movies that were that like the hookers who's taking her like wig off, then your ears and things. What movies are? You guys like, I don't remember that. I think it's time to get you Sucka. It's so funny. Literally, like looks normal, like all done up and then takes like all the makeup and everything. Oh, I got it. It's a Grimland. I found somebody I think I who recommends movies worse than some of you guys. I feel
like I was I was taught how do you tell a story in consulta Yeah, I like that I got a story Shit sandwich It's a shit sandwich there's so there's somebody who gives worse movie recommendations our buddy Jason dude The last couple times we've hung out he's like recommended some movies and I've been like I know I haven't seen that one I've seen it and then the last time we were we're hanging out he tells me to watch Citizen vigilante citizen vigilante and did you see the previous no I did not okay? Yeah, so the name alone gives it away Yeah, yeah, so I'm like and I'm watching one of those guys. It's just like action. Yes My dad always Brother-in-law and him it like there's tons of action. It's a fancy. Yeah, my dad's and it like it doesn't have to have any sort of depth Or yeah, that's my dad. Oh just if it's action Guns this is oh my dad's always recommending movies so what all this a good movie. It's a lot of action Okay, yeah, and I see Sue I have it. I had it. I had it taken any of that was actually at least good That was good. I did like crazy. I haven't watched the second one. You know it's good too Was it I've been wanting because you know Katrina wouldn't watch because it's a little too graphic But I like the first one. I was like the second one. Yeah, yeah But back to this one and I'm gonna ruin it because it's a terrible movie. What's the race with the run tomatoes on it though? Let me see six percent It was so I'm gonna ruin it. I don't care because it's a bad movie You shouldn't go watch it so and my buddies telling me how great it is like I have to watch it and I can tell by the way It's even opening up and they acting something and I'm looking at Katrina. I'm just like Who's gonna miss this? Yeah, is this is this gonna get better or what's this gonna be like and where I couldn't finish it I turned it off is there's a scene and it's playing up to it So it's like building up to the scene and they're giving you like hints that the scene is coming and it's literally this you know Citizen vigilante guy who's like you know killing all the bad guys by himself and you know the government is you know Coming after him and they send in like two tanks to his house, right So his and he's bunkering down in his house And he's got this so dangerous that is in tanks bro tanks with I think 40 or 50 soldiers right for one dude Yeah, for one dude to his to his house, right and he he bunkers down in a bedroom That has a bulletproof steel box that he's in with like two AK-47s in his house in his house Wow, and he allows them all to come in and then and they all and by the way, it's like a bedroom, right and so like One soldier doesn't just walk in like ten of them all walking it and there's just this big box with two guns pointing out of it And then any any any Before he shoots I mean he you know is polite and hey, I just you should leave or also I don't want to kill you Yes, and he literally kills the first 10 that are in there and they just keep sending the soldiers in and he's just and it's all Graphic, you know heads are exploding And I might just throw a bomb in there bro it was I or roll because the guns are on these things Yeah, and so he's only he's like moan everybody down from chest up You know, say like not one of the not one of these 40 soldiers thought I think you'd crawl yeah I'm going through the back or we think we're stop coming in I'm saying like I haven't talked to Jason yet. I'm like I can't wait No, they're the one I'll never take a movie So 80s action movies were a lot like that right like one dude is walking every commando guys what where Arnold's walking Even everybody's missing him, but you know they're not trying to be serious you can tell him But there was one movie where one guy took out a lot of people and it was in my opinion some somewhat realistic First blood Rambo got stupid this be honest Rambo got really crazy. Yeah, but first blood was pretty good. That's the very first one right the very first one I mean, it was pretty good. It's also good movie. It's also what gate to give the 80s crazy action some credit to is like first of all So vets are still low back then was just like to see a body that looked like that and he plays the character of a ranger So he's like the ultimate badass green brain or green brain. Okay, ultimate bad as yes, sorry Like the ultimate like military badass, right? You know saying and so and then and he does take out guys one at a time He does and if you remember first blood He's he's Vietnam vet PTSD horrible stuff happened. He's just trying to live his life dude. Yeah, and he gets harassed by it It's a bunch of it's a bunch of small town cops And they go after him in the woods which he could he live in Where he had like like arrows of explain. No, that's Rambo. I wouldn't remember now This is the one where he's like he's like he's like in a cave. He's like eating wild boar and he's getting with knives He's getting his knife. He's like hiding in the mud and he like that's right. Yeah, and he sets up booby-truck. It's realistic Yeah, I know I agree with you. Yeah, no, I ended up watching like it was just for nostalgia sake I thought like oh maybe maybe this movie holds up, you know like never a story those kind of like you like oh I have some childhood memories like so if you guys are watch like little monsters. Oh is it is it bad now? Do you remember that? Dude, it's terrible. Didn't we just talk about that so no, we talked about a different one I didn't even put this together, but I realized what it is like so Me and Courtney start watching his Fred savages in oh, yes You know and then up so the guy to the Bobby's world. He's on Oh, what's what's that like America's got talent like he's one of the main hosts for that anyways He's like comes out from under. He's a monster. Yeah, he's a monster comes out from the bed and the whole premise is basically like You know he pulls him in he traps him and he's first guy to trap him and then like ends up going to see this underground world To go in remember that movie, but I don't remember the whole thing I realized what it was the whole thing is like it it was I'm like this had to be right after Beetlejuice And I'm like yes, and I look it up and of course they tried to make it just like Beetlejuice but like for like kids and more like Family kind of all I told her remember this now, but dude He was so obnoxious like the most like overacting crazy like like it wasn't even like funny And in the whole thing was like ruined. I swear like it was like he was trying so hard to be Beetlejuice I remember that we said all the time. Just say we're all we're all eight nine years over here. Yeah. Yeah No, this is it didn't hold up. I was kind of like I thought it was good. I was like we watched like Max and I watch it I introduced him to the original Oh, Willy Wonka and so that was really good. There's this terrifying scene in their little kids. Let's see when they're going through the tunnel Oh, it's it's not as terrifying as you think it is. Yeah, yeah, we're all like all the yeah It's so It's so low budget that it's not that scary. Yeah, yeah, it's it's designed to be like the scariest part of that Did I tell you guys years ago my older kids when they were younger? I thought oh gremlins I remember that being a fun family movie is not a fun family movie Violence scary. Oh, no, I remember being a little scared watching this. It is a scary. Yes movie. Yeah, you know they throw them in the microwave Did you watch that with your kids when they were younger my older ones? I made a lot of mistakes I made a lot of mistakes as a as a young dad. Yeah, I got an ease back to like that's where we're at We're at Waka like I can't get him to watch one time. I watched a movie with my oldest one He was little I thought it would be cool and a scene comes up and the poor kid frozen looked away And I knew I traumatized him. I knew it right away Oh, no, I just traumatized my kid Max is so cute when we were so we had the the fight we were outside and barbecued and we had the fights and stuff and all the TV's going on stuff and and during one of the ads there was like a ad for like a movie and it was like a scary movie and he's like so trained to not do that That he's like and he was walking towards the TV in the barbecue and so that and then he just he put his head down and Jason at Daniel Like what's wrong with Max and Katrina's just like oh, he's looking away. I said yeah, and they're like oh my god She goes like I couldn't figure out what he was doing because also know where he's like he's like walking and doing this At the same time, but he's like trained himself if he sees something he knows right away like he wants you guys remember as kids because we watched VHS Right so when you know parents rented a movie it was on VHS if a quote unquote dirty park him up We're fast movies. Yeah, they wouldn't like okay guys leave the room. He's fast forward You just watch the movies and to lie Yeah, you just watch the the boobs in three times I've tried to move a few times. Yeah, you can't you can't do that. No, you're always late. Oh Every time you get so mad at me. I'm sorry I gotta tell you you know what I've been drinking a lot of lately is the Keon Central I mean Yeah, yeah, because a jujitsu man it makes a difference it and I eat a lot of protein. Yeah, yeah makes a difference Are you doing it while do you mix it with the water while you're so wild but also throughout the day Because here's what I'm noticing and I was just I was speaking to this on the series that I record with Dylan One thing that I I heard in areas where the muscle attachments are yeah because You know, I'm strong, but my body is not used to being to to having you search strength In those positions or at that speed and so what's happening is like my elbows hurt because my forearm flexors Are tight at the insertions so it hurts like like I couldn't even lift the other day because bench pressing hurts so bad Because of that. Yeah, you're clear a lot more force now. It's just my hip although that feels a little better And it's not that it's injured It's just I'm not my body is not used to be as pliable pulled and strained in this way So the but the essential amino's by the way, I have the check this out So they put the here's the thing guys you buy essential amino acids nine out of ten times It's not going to tell you how much losing Isolucine if I can tell you the amino acids that are in there. It's just gonna say yes. They can save money. We'd like to just help one
How much money they save? It's just going to say three grams of essential amino acids. You want a high amount of losing in your essential amino acids. That's what does the recovery and build muscle. Otherwise, it doesn't do very much. The losing in one packet of their aminos, 2000 milligrams, 2000 milligrams, isolucine 550, valine 500, but losing is at 2000. That's what you want. You really, really high losing content in your essential amino acids. They list it. They break it down. That's how you know the best when you get the best one. Healthy meats delicious. It tastes like the soda you grew up sipping. Oli pop has the added benefit, by the way, of gut health support. I really recommend these to all the clients that we have here at Mind Pump. Here's why. First of all, it's delicious, but this can right here. This is cream soda. 50 calories. 50 calories. 50 grams of sugar, and there's fiber. This has nine or eight grams of fiber in these cans. Super low calorie. They taste delicious. Again, it tastes like soda. This tastes like the cream soda I had as a kid. I have another one over here. Classic root beer. It tastes like root beer. This one's 35 calories. If your goal is fitness and health, you want to burn body fat. You like the taste of soda. You don't want a bunch of calories, a bunch of sugar. You want stuff that's good for your gut because there's gut health compounds in here as well. You got to go with Oli Pop and check it out. You can get a free can of Oli Pop. Here's what you do. Go to drinkolipop.com/mindpump by any two cans of Oli Pop in the store and they'll pay you back for one. It works on any single cans of any flavor at any retailer. So again, it's drinkolipop.com/mindpump by any two cans of Oli Pop in the store and they'll pay you back for one of them. Go check it out. Our first caller is Riley from Mississippi. Hi, Riley. How are you? How are you? How are you guys? Good. How can we help you? Well, first of all, thank you guys for so much that you do. I've been listening since I was back in high school and I started lifting in 2016. I had no idea I was doing so you guys have helped a lot. It's really cool to finally talk to you. But little background for my question, promise I won't take too long. I am a personal trainer. I went down my degree in extra science and I'm currently back in school to do a nursing degree. So I'm really interested in lifestyle medicine, changing the way we look at chronic disease. I've been athletic my whole life and I recently in January, I've showed my Achilles playing basketball. Going through that rehab made me look at the way I train patients and clients differently. So it made me really want to dive into like evidence-based practice and focus on how I can help people who may have multiple comorbidities or maybe postpartum, maybe going through an injury like me and returning back to exercise. Well, I've never had an athletic injury like that. It was a big change for me. So my question for you guys is what resources do you rely on to stay current with evidence-based practices when working with complex clients, maybe those with multiple comorbidities or just a chronic disease such as COPD or just anything, assuming they've been cleared by the doctor to train with you. And how do you balance that in your coaching experience? Are you still working in the gym right now? Right now because of my lifestyle, so we're military and move all the time. I just provide training. So I do a lot of virtual training and then a little bit of in-person with more so friends. But I'm currently working just as a barista to paper in nursing school. So I do a little bit of everything, but what's the training online is my main platform right now. Yeah, so your question, I love your question. Funny, I just had this conversation, similar conversation yesterday with a friend of mine who's a psychiatrist. And we were talking about, you know, quote unquote, experts on social media and how they communicate and how, you know, when we're listening to like a, let's say, a fitness or health influencer, you can pretty quickly tell if that person has a lot of experience working with people or if they don't. And it's not necessarily because they do or don't have the right information. There's a lot of really good science-based people on media who communicate fitness and communicate the data, but they've never trained anybody or they haven't for a long period of time. And you can hear it in how they communicate. So the example I actually used last night was Brett Contreras, you know, he's known for building glutes. He's also a science guy. He can quote the data, understand studies has conducted some himself. But when he communicates, you could tell he's trained a lot of people. Thousands, you could tell. You could tell he's done this for decades, okay? And so the reason why I'm communicating this to you is there's tons of resources for information, medical journals, studies. You can even go on forums, medical forums where you're going to run to a lot of medical students where they're discussing the latest studies and the latest science on how to treat, you know, core morbidities or different chronic conditions. But the best thing that I think or the best way you could get yourself good honestly is to work as an apprentice in some way, shape, or form with somebody who's very experienced. Because the difference between somebody who does a phenomenal job and everybody else isn't necessarily that they have better data or better information. It's that they know how to work with people and they do a better job of that. And so for someone like you, and I'm just making a judgment based off of what you told me, sounds like you like to learn. I don't think learning is an issue for you. I don't think seeking information is an issue for you. It sounds like something you really enjoy doing. I don't think you're ever going to be short on knowledge, but experience is where you're going to notice where you're going to have some deficits. And so the fastest way to get that besides going out there and doing it is you work for somebody or under somebody who has. And even if you do it for free for a while and consider it the most valuable education you'll ever get that you're not paying for. So you literally find somebody in a field you're interested in. You can approach them and literally say, I'm a student. I want to get really good. I want to learn from you and I'll work for free. I just want to be around you to watch how you engage with patients, how you work with patients. And if I can ask the occasional question, that's a plus. And when you get out of that like six months to a year of that, oh my gosh, you'll come out so much better. That's the absolute best thing you could possibly do in my very strong opinion. Another hack, although I don't think anything's better than what Sal said, nothing will trump that. I think that's the best. But since you're online and virtual most of the time and you're not in like a place and that may be maybe difficult to go intern with somebody, you know, 20, 30 hours a week with everything else you have on your plate, the very bare minimum, I would definitely join a community like our school group like with our trainers where you have other like-minded professionals that are out there doing the work and coaching people where you're sharing stuff like, hey, has anyone trained someone who's diabetic? Oh, has someone trained anybody who just blew their Achilles? And so you have the other like-minded coaches that you know are under our umbrella. So their philosophy is probably going to be very aligned or learning from a lot of us and what we teach and gone through our certification and then sharing their knowledge and what they're and so a lot of our school group is that is trainers. Hey, I've got this new stuff of big network. Yeah, I got a client. I've never trained someone who's got out. What do you guys do in this situation? And then you'll see three, four, you know, more experienced trainers chime in and be like, oh, do this. And so definitely be a part of a community like that. I mean, that's something that you can virtually do at home and be learning as you go. I think that that's far better than just going deep on the science-based studies and not because although that stuff is important to understand and know, you can have all the answers, but then you can have five clients with the same problem and you're going to approach it five different ways because of the individual. Yeah, and I think, you know, to echo both of them, like I think what's helped me kind of accelerate my knowledge base is to surround myself with people of other different professions that are, you know, similar and synergistic in a sense. So like physical therapists, chiropractors, like just really solid individuals in the area that I knew I could, you know, send clients to, but also I would meet with and we discuss, and I would get a lot of like really important feedback and application to then kind of work into what I was doing. So just, you know, surrounding yourself with like really good professions. And Riley, just again, just to kind of hammer this home because you're getting into the medical field. And medicine does a phenomenal job. Western medicine is a phenomenal job of diving very deep in a very narrow scope. Okay. But they don't do a good job of connecting the dots with other parts of the body or the mind. And that's just because you only have so much time. Like we need to go to school for 50 years. Like it's possible to do all of that. But what happens is we treat the mind as if it's separate from the body and we treat the person as if they're different from their physiology. In other words, there's people with chronic pain and their chronic pain goes away from talk therapy or from an SSRI. What's going on here? Or you'll get somebody who, you know, I've had clients where we would do belly breathing and they'd have an emotional release. So you can't separate all that. And so the reason why I said work was someone who's experienced.
is because what you figure out after years of working with people is you start to learn how that all works together. - Yeah. A lot of human cycles. - And how you work with the individual based off of how they present themselves and the directions that you can go. And so nothing, I'm gonna tell you right now, if you could find yourself somebody that is really experienced, that you could just work under for free for a while, that'll trump all the education that you can get from books and from data. By far, you'll come out of that and you'll be like, "Oh my gosh, I learned so much." - Yeah, I have definitely felt like it's hard to plug into those types of networks. My college town, I worked at a gym and unfortunately, are the owner kind of chased off every personal trainer that came. Yeah, I won't go too much into what he was, he was a whole mess. But so we would often, the trainers who had that experience, or maybe going to physical therapy school after they're degree, and would have much more knowledge and experience with these patients that may have special considerations, they would be gone and chased off. And then moving every two to four years, this really helped by there. So I think definitely plugging into the schoolhouse and just learning that knowledge. And I've learned a little bit more in my clinical rotation too of nursing school, just to see the way that Western medicine kind of deals with things versus the way that exercise science teaches us to deal with things. And the gap that I would like to bridge having my knowledge, like going forward because I hate that everybody's just prescribed a drug and then we just don't do anything physically or nutritionally to make them better. But yeah, definitely plugging into those sources would help. - Yeah, but again, just the attitude around it is like, you invest a lot of time in money and education. And so the energy that you put into that, when you're ready, you would put into apprenticeship. And so you would say, okay, for the next year, this is what my education is going to look like. And then you would search and you would court. You would court them. You would call them. You'd show up at their office. And you would say, I'm here. I'll do this for free. I just want to learn. And I bet you somebody will bite and you'll get that experience from working with someone. And again, I can't stress this enough. It will make you better, faster than any other thing you possibly do. - Yeah, I love that. - Cool. - I don't know, really. - Yeah. Thanks for calling in. - Hopefully we see you in the school group. - Yeah. - Yeah. Thank you. - You got it. - You got it. - I was literally just having this conversation with a friend of mine. So she's a psychiatrist and she's very, very smart. She went to Harvard Medical School, brilliant woman. And we were talking about this and how, you know, they, she's in psychiatry, it's the mind and they don't consider the body. - Yeah. - And she's like, it's crazy. - It's disconnect. - She's like, it's crazy. Now we have data that shows that exercise is such a powerful, antidepressant. And she's just like, you know, if you could figure out how to combine the two and work with them. And we have this whole conversation. It's like, she can't possibly learn everything that a really good coach would learn because she spent so much time in school or nutrition or whatever. - Right. - However, could she work with other people? - She's great information. - That's right. And develop it and build a network. But nothing will teach, this is, we tell our trainers all the time. You want to get really good? Work under a good trainer. - That's what happens. - Well, I mean, Justin's shared his story many times where when he went to that studio after he left. - Yes. - And got to be around 20 other great trainers that had all these, you know, different backgrounds. It's just a, it's just an incredible fast track to get good. Especially if you're hanging out. - You keep talking. - Yeah. - It's the most I ever learned. - And by far. - Now, granted, this is 15 years ago or more, right? When that was a thing. Like we do now have cool communities online that's similar to that. And that's why I think in her situation, that makes the most sense as far as easy. Like that's the bare minimum. Now I would be still searching because I don't think anything will, will, will Trump what you said? But I understand, I have no idea what, I didn't see what town she's in or, if they're, you know, she could be out in the middle of nowhere. And if she's moving every two years, that could be kind of difficult to do. But she absolutely can join a community where there's other like-minded, you know, successful, veteran trainers where they're sharing ideas and that's a quick way to do that for sure. Our next caller is Jay from Texas. - What's up Jay? - How you doing Jay? What's happening? - Hey guys. Y'all looking good then. - Hey, thanks man. - Thanks man. - How can we help you? - Let's try. - Well man, I've been listening to you guys for about a year and a half now and it's, it's awesome what you guys do man. I tune in seriously every single day and like Monday, I'm kind of feeding in from Sunday and I get into hearing anything. So, I listen to you guys when I'm working out actually even so. - Awesome. - It's pretty cool. - Thank you. - But I'm reading through my email that I sent you guys and I wrote a book so I'm not going to read the email. But I'm going to give you the cliff notes. Basically in 55 years old, I've had two times in my life where I've lost quite a bit of weight. The first time was my early 30s when I lost 140 pounds. I had gotten to 385 and was you know, really out of shape obviously. And then the second time, well at that time when I lost the weight, I actually ended up coming to personal trainer because I really got into the fitness aspect. So I became a trainer, I was a trainer for just a few years and but during that time, I met my wife so that was a big plus from it. And so, she married a guy that was in shape and then a few years later I decided I was just kind of done with the whole thing. So I was tired of measuring food and I had a lot of injuries. My Achilles were pretty jacked up. So I was dealing with pain all the time and at that time I think I turned about 46, 47 years old and I was just like, "Skirt, I'm done. I'm going to be old and fat." And so obviously my wife wasn't super excited about that but she was pretty good. She kind of rolled with it for a few years. She would encourage me but she'd never nag me about it. Thank God. She probably figured if she did, I'd never bounce back. So but anyways, a couple years ago back in 2024, we had gone to New York City and my wife announced he's from New York and I couldn't go up to Stature Liberty because those two had a shape and it really got to me. And so then fast forward to into July that year we went on a trip to Mexico and it was pretty cool. We got to go snorkeling but when I wanted to get off the boat at this time I was about 360 pounds and I wasn't thinking that I typically don't think I just kind of jump and so that's what I did. I jumped into the ocean and I panicked. I got a mouth full of water and it really freaked me out and so much so that I wanted to get back on the catamaran and my wife was kind of like, "Jay, come on, we're here to see this reef. You could do this." So she kind of helped me get my wits about me and ended up being able to swim and I don't see the reef, all that kind of good stuff but that moment stuck with me and the next day we were back on the beach and I told my wife I'm like, "Look, I'm looking like a beach well out here and I'm just sick of it so I'm tired of holding this back." So when we get back I'm going to get in shape and so I had a doctor's appointment scheduled. I went to the doctor's appointment, got my blood test. It all came back super positively negative so I was high blood pressure, high cholesterol, fat off the charts and type 2 diabetes. So I had read a book, a buddy of mine gave me this book about fasting and I had fasted before for personal spiritual reasons but I never fasted really to lose weight and so I read the book and I started doing like 24 hour and 18 hour intermediate fasting, combined with Keto. So from August to December I lost about 50 pounds and December rolled around and I decided "You know what, I want to start working out again, I missed it." Also I started working at home and I couldn't even do 15 push ups from my knees without struggling and it was pathetic. I was in such bad shape and January I joined the Rec Center and started working out. Anyway so fast forward I've kind of done a couple different things over the last year and I lost, I got down to 265 which was my goal, that was what was in my mind. So I got down to 265 November of last year, 25 and then I decided "You know what, I want to do." I had been listening to you guys and all your talk about the reverse dieting and at the time I've been fasting and I'm like "and you guys are talking about how much protein I should be getting and I'm thinking, "Good God man, how am I going to eat all this?" So I thought the holidays are coming, it's kind of a good time to do a book. So I flipped everything in and I thought "You know what, I'm going to reverse diet and it's very dirty, very dirty.
reverse diet, but it got me up and then so when January rolled around I was like okay you know I'm gonna I'm gonna get back so I'd still maintain my workouts five days a week but my work my eating totally changed so January comes around and I just said okay I'm gonna start eating more like whole foods and not so much focus on trying to trim lose weight but just get my calories around 3400 is what I wanted to be and this was just based around stuff I keep hearing from you guys you know but coming off of intermittent fasting is hard to get from like 1700 calories to 3400 calories you know so it took time and thankfully you know I had the holidays to help but anyway so for the last several months that's what I've been doing and my strength just been going up my bench now I have to use Smith machine because at the rex learning that's all they got but I you know I've worked up to doing a work out with 315 you know 3 sets of 12 and then I'll do a set of usually like 365 see how many I can get you know I tend to do that so going from you know 15 push-ups on my knees to that you know I feel pretty good at 55 but but now I really just want to trim down because I was able to get my dexid skin and it came back at 29% body fat which I'm not too excited about I want to be I knew it wasn't 15% you were close but I just feel like man that's a lot 30% so I'm trying to get down to 15 my question you guys a whole reason emailed you guys is and I didn't have this information before the dexid skin but where should I be calories a day my my resting metabolic rate is 2200 calories according to the dexid skin and yeah so there we go I'm trying to figure out what I need to do to cut how tall are you Jay I'm six four okay I just say you I figured you were tall big dude yeah you're big dude I definitely wouldn't I think you're where you're at what you're doing is right I think you just need to stay the course you finally course corrected the right way and your building strength and your feet and your body which you need to if are you hovering around 3,400 calories right now is that about where you're at that's why was that actually two weeks ago after well actually a week and after after job for I thought I'm gonna cut because I didn't think I'd be talking against for another like three weeks so I was like man this can't wait so so anyways I'm down at like 2800 calories a day right now yeah I'd prefer you up I'd prefer you up and just stay in the course that way and your your body your your body comps you will lean out okay your your size the amount of muscle I what's your benching I know you're you're a strong dude so you've probably got some good muscle on you eat in less than 3,000 calories unless you're really sedentary do you sit all day or do you do you move what are your steps at man I'm in my truck a lot so I mean I'm not not like a trucker like this but I go to jobs so I'm only get maybe six thousand steps a day that's not terrible that's not better it's better to sell yeah you might you might if I get a little deeper if I ask you some more questions yeah go for me so so there's a there's a root issue here that I think it's important that we address because it can be hard to get out of this cycle that you're kind of in which looks like this it looks like you're they're all on all in or you're all out yeah and so and the challenge with that is at some point you're gonna be all out again it's just what's gonna happen so we got to figure out a way to make this sustainable and consistent now I would some I surmise that someone like you probably pretty disciplined the rest your life and so what you probably do is just try to over you just try to discipline the hell out of yourself and give yourself a ton of structure when you're on and then at some point you're like this sucks so I just want to break okay so we got to do we got to figure out a way to get you to enjoy the process and not enjoy it because you're doing what you think is right but rather you love it so much you want to do it and you don't want to stop now what does that look like it might look like a little less structure and it might look like a very basic give yourself some very basic rules now tracking everything that's a lot to do all the time there's nothing wrong with it but if you have a history of on and off I don't know if that's necessary the best approach you're consistent with your workouts I think that's great five days a week's a lot I don't think you need to do that much but if you want to keep going five days a week go for it do what you enjoy and with the diet I think if you just stick to whole natural foods and stop worrying about how much you got to eat how much I think you're you're gonna be okay where it tends to go off is probably when you go away from whole natural foods oh for sure yeah I can you know you guys talk about this and it's ridiculous how true it is but I can pound a bag of chips in five minutes you know yeah and not and I feel it like it's not yeah so it is so much different eating real food yeah so so what it would look like Jay is something like is when you start to add all these rules all the structure it starts to feel a bit tyrannical and a big controlled and at some point especially if you're a guy that doesn't like to be controlled all the time which I can relate at some point you want to give it the middle finger and be like I'm gonna do what I want and so it doesn't look like you go off a little bit looks like you just go way off like you run in the other direction I'm stopping my workouts I mean what are the hell I want to have a deal so what might be easier Jay is without instead of tracking everything and getting crazy with all that would be to meal prep because this is gonna set you up okay because one of the challenges with eating whole natural foods sometimes is if you don't have them around and you're hungry well the the fastest thing becomes you know really hard to resist so I would just your structure might just look like this meal prep eat when I'm hungry eat whole natural foods and if I'm hungry I eat if I'm not I don't and that's it only I track as my protein yeah I got a thing a guy your size if you're eating four meals a day which you probably should you probably should have at least four meals a day you have a nice a good amount of protein in each one 55 60 grams you're good dude okay let me take this because what you just said I've been lately and this is just the last like three weeks I'll have my breakfast and I'm trying to get you know 65 seven degrees of protein from a breakfast I don't because I'm usually out and kind of on the road I don't have a lunch because I don't prepare that kind of like I see a much type of meal and I'm refused to eat out so what I've been doing is I take this is just how ridiculous probably but I mean it's literally like my snacks it's my it's a banana it's my protein bar is protein shake it's I make sometimes the protein muffins like that's what I'm having for lunch and then I have like a real dinner so that I'm still getting about 250 to 60 grams of protein a day is that okay even though it's not I think that's okay but it's probably a better approach like can you have dairy yeah yeah I have tons of yogurt later well as I said you could have a cooler with cottage cheese high protein yogurts some nuts some fruit that could be lunch or you can make a meal put it in the cooler that you don't mind eating cold and that's your meal and I think you should eat two meals before you get to dinner so you got a meal and you got another meal and you're gonna have to discipline that's the discipline the discipline comes this time you're gonna play I'm gonna eat it this time I'm gonna eat it this time and then I'm gonna have dinner and what that's gonna do it's gonna prevent those moments when you're without food for a while you're out and the cravings hit and you're like you know what I'm just gonna go for that whatever so the very basic rules whole natural food eat when I'm hungry but you gotta set yourself up for by by prep the reason why it's all saying I think is is really important especially with you if you know this about yourself you're on or off is when you in the thing I don't like about like the fasting windows like that of not eating for that long is you get really hungry you go from I'm not that hungry to I'm really hungry and then when you start feeling that way it makes it even more difficult to make the healthy choice versus I'm not even that crazy hungry but I know it's about that time I need to eat another another meal I'm gonna eat that meal and it keeps you always kind of satisfied where if you allow that six eight hour window sometimes you're just like ravenous oh I got him so hungry and then you're like oh and I got to go eat that boring-ass meal or I could drive through that place and go get that thing and so it just makes it yeah so if you took like a cooler with two meals in it so you get your breakfast at home you got two meals you eat at work that are you that you don't mind eating cold and then dinner and if you're just consistent with that and you're like oh I'm still hungry all right I'll have another a little bit of what I had for dinner I'm just gonna stick to the whole natural I think if you just follow that and you kept working out Jay you're gonna get body comp change over time yeah you're gonna get there over time yeah if you do the aggressive cut the aggressive bulk the you're just gonna fall into the old pattern the on the already pretty for your size you're already playing low enough like the hovering around the 3,000 3,400 for 6 4 250 dude is that's that's plenty low enough calorie and 6,000 steps is not a lot but it's not low okay so the man says I mean I'd like to be in my okay this sounds I don't know this is just me being I guess the ego or whatever I don't know I've never seen my apps right I grew up kind of a Pudgy Kid played sports all that but I never you know had apps so I'd like to see some apps and I've been lifting them you know doing weights
with them based on your recommendations. But I think probably 15%, maybe I could see something. - You might, but let me tell you two things about this. Okay, the first one is the most important. It's very important that you understand this. And you trust me. Apps are so overrated. Seeing your apps is nothing changes. It doesn't change the life in any meaningful way at all. - You know how you get it? - It doesn't, for me, I don't live in that. - It doesn't do anything for you. You get apps and you're like, "What's gonna happen?" Nothing happens. - So, but you've seen your apps before, right? - Yeah. - That's not how I say it. - I've never seen my apps. - Yeah. - So another way to say this too though is, and you absolutely can, but focusing on that is gonna shift you into the wrong mindset and make bad choices nutritionally. - That's right, dude. - And right now, if we're trying to build them, so you can see them at high, 'cause I know you listen to the show, we talk about how you build your apps. You can see them at higher body fat percentage. You need to feed your body. You're not gonna build apps with low calorie. If you're low calorie and you're in a huge deficit, you can do all the ad work you want. They're not gonna build. So you need to be fueling the body enough nutrients that you can actually build muscle. Apps are included in that. And so-- - I'll tell you what, focus on getting them that way. - I'll tell you what, if you just ate whole natural foods, ate when you were hungry, meal prepped, kept lifting, and that's it. That's all you did, and you did that for the next year. You would drop, you would be in the teens of body fat percentage, and it wouldn't feel like you were chasing it. That's just where your body would fall. And it would be something you would sustain. You'd be able to-- - And I think that's a first good goal is just to get down on the teens of body fat percentage through that method before we start talking about looking like washboard app shit, okay? That's like the next conversation we're gonna follow. - I mean, in this not, I don't know. And like I said, it's a silly thought, but it's just-- - There's nothing wrong with that. But that's the big long-term goal right now. It's like let's get down to the teens, body fat percentage wise, the right way and healthy, and that's the advice that Sal's giving. I would like to add a little more-- - I wanna change your programming. I would like to put you on Mapsanabolic, and then the other two days you go to the gym, I want you to walk for an hour. Go get those steps. So I literally want you to follow Mapsanabolic, the way it's laid out. - I'll send that to you. - And then still go to the gym five days 'cause I like the fact that you're in a rhythm and you're routine and you like doing that. But the other two days, I want you to walk on a treadmill for an hour or an elliptical. Just like steady state cardio, not pushing. I don't want you trying to get crazy. Just cruising, just move. Listen to the podcast. Yes, you should be able to talk. You should be able to have a conversation while you're doing the cardio. So whatever you do, what modality you choose, you should be able to talk. Not like puffing and puffing, what you do. Just cruising for an hour. That on the other two days, follow that with the advice Sal's giving nutritionally. And let's talk again in like three, four months and see where you're at. Okay. Yeah. Man, thanks guys. That's awesome. Yes. That's awesome. You got to do. Yeah. Well, one last question. And I know I shouldn't focus on a scale number, but I am curious 'cause I've never really, you know, I've been at different weights. I've been 245, but I wasn't as muscular as I am now. So I just look skinny. Fat. Is there a scale number that sticks for God? I'm talking about that. Bro, I don't want to see you lower than probably 250. Yeah, let's see what happens. 250 is a good weight. There's six four, dude, who could bench press 315. Yeah, let's see where it falls. You're a big guy. Yeah. I would, if you were my client, I wouldn't even weigh you. We would just see a year from now being consistent. All right, where's your weight at? I'm like, oh, that's cool. It seems like there's the way you should be. Honestly, it's stronger. You can get defined in all kinds of places. If, honestly, if we do this right, where it's at right now, she kind of just hover there for a long time. Hover, up or down, five pounds right around where you're at. You don't want to see major swings north or south right now. If I see big swings north, I mean, you're probably going over and above the calories, you know, or eating out of bounds too much. If you go down way too low, you're not feeding yourself enough. We should kind of, if we do what Sal's trying to get you to do, which is this beautiful exchange of you add five pounds of muscle, you lose five pounds of fat, which means zero movement on the scale. You add five more pounds of muscle, you lose five more pounds of fat, zero movement on the scale still. You're going to see the day to day fluctuation of like, you know, five pounds north or south. I'm not worried about that, but you should kind of hover around the same. When we're talking two months later for now, I don't want to see a huge difference in weight on this. I shouldn't, shouldn't see that. Okay. Okay. Cool. All right. Yeah. You guys are awesome. All right, Jay. Thank you, man. We'll see you back. Take it easy, man. Thank you so much. Record. Yeah, it's, I got to say this again, man. Abs are so overrated. Everybody aims for them. I'm going to say this right now. If you're in natural dude and you chase single-digit body fat, you are going to 100%, you're going to compromise hormone health and athletic performance. Strength. Strength, all that stuff. Now there are genetic anomalies. And this is what we tend to do. We tend to look at the crazy freaks out there, but that's not how it works the most. It's funny. We just watched UFC just, just happened, right? And you see all these fighters who have crazy fitness and stamina. You take their shirts off. You're like, I think you train. You don't got a crazy abs. You're not all jacked and ripped. No. You can fight. You have to. It's so overrated across the board and chasing it oftentimes leads to failure. But if you kind of follow the process, especially a process that you enjoy or learn to enjoy it, your body gets to a place where you, the result is you look great. You feel great. You keep getting strong and keep focused on that specifically and I swear, your body changes and morphs and you get to find and lines where you didn't have it before. You have to just keep, you know, trusting the system. Like it's going to work its way out. Our next color is Linda from Massachusetts. Hey, how you doing? Linda. Hey guys, thanks. Thanks for having me back. First, I just want to say, um, your advice is so important, especially for women. And I am like the living after of everything that you say. So just a quick history. I started lifting weights when I was 17 running when I was 22. And since I've had to balance the both, I'm still exercising to this day. And then everything I learned about nutrition was from bodybuilding magazines. And I so pro to every male still do that and I kept my muscle mass. I worked out through both my pregnancies in 93 and 96. And as you guys know, as soon as you have a kid, you have less time to work out and I've gotten better shape, but I got a little too lean and I ended up having trouble getting pregnant. When I gained weight, I got pregnant right away. So being too lean does affect your hormones. About 10 years ago, I went through menopause and knew I wanted to be on HRT and I was lucky. I found a local doctor who prescribed it. She tested everything, including vitamin D and back then they wouldn't even test vitamin D, but I took me body to get my body back and I felt great. But then I started to read after a few years, how important having hormones is for your brain, your heart and your muscle, your joints. So like you guys, I found Karen Martell through a podcast. She got me back on hormones and peptides and that really helped me with my running and that was great. About three years ago, I got a dexascane. My muscle mass is good. My fat is good, but the big, big surprise was I have the bones of a 30 year old. So all the stuff that you say is true. So I'm definitely the living proof of that. But it's been a long time since I was back on. It was in 2023. I just qualified for the Boston Marathon and asked you guys for an off-season program. I ended up doing anabolic, which I liked. But as I upped my running, I found that Fawty Plus was awesome. I loved that program. It was a great complement to my running. And I just want to make a plug for live coaches. I've had the same running coach for over 20 years. And you can imagine when I went to him and said I lift weights, he was like, what? But he just went with me and I said, I only want three days a week. And we had really successful year because I had a gap year, but until I could do Boston because it was so late in the year that I qualified. But as you kind of pegged me, the first time I was on, I'm type A. My last race was in November. And then Boston Training Start in December. I'm in the Boston area. Reason cold, winter, running in the dark, getting up at 4 in the morning, driving it to Boston. But great coach and the day was awesome. And I had a great day and actually qualified again for the next Boston Marathon. But the stress was starting to catch up with me and I wasn't recovering like I normally did. Took time off, went to Italy, had a great trip, came back. Still, everything I had a lot of aches and pains when I started running again. So my husband threw a curve ball at me and he said, I think you should do a pilot in competition with me in December. And at this point it was June. And I had done some bench press competitions and had success. This was 20 years ago. And I was like, I needed something different mentally because the running just wasn't coming back. So he got us a coach because he said, if I try to coach, he would get a divorce and we didn't want that to happen. He found a great coach but he threw me right into the deep end four days to upper true lower. I had my hips was still bothering me so it was having trouble squatting but he was really, really good. But then he told me you need to gain weight. And I was like, I'm a runner. Like, I never heard that before gain weight. So I got a nutrition coach and she reversed dieted me. And just like all you guys say, three weeks I couldn't gain a pound. And I just felt better. I looked better. I performed better. I still had pain but I was also adding to the stress bucket. I was selling my house. I decided to do my church Christmas musical and my daughter was getting married. But I got through it. I had an injury right before the competition but got through it. And I have to tell you guys, it was an awesome experience. As you always say that the community was great, it was fantastic.
And I really liked it, but I shot everything down after that. I had stopped running in September just to train for the public competition. I opted out of Boston. I knew there's no way it could do it. And the coach put me on a very good off-season program, getting my hips strong, everything strong. And then right before my daughter's wedding in March, I went back to my nutrition coach to go on a cut for the dress. And I started adding some running back in. She wanted me to add some cardio and I felt great, of course, because I was healing. So I went back to my running coach and said, let me sneak in a few five Ks before I do the powerlifting competition again in December. And I did a race and as you guys probably could predict, no running from September. And may I barely lost any speed. I felt great place-amaged group. So all those years of running was still in me. But I got an injury on a training run and I just stopped running. I said, I got to focus on one thing. I did my one rep max testing to start the program. But my PT kind of re-aggulated this calf injury that I had. And so I decided to just focus on healing. And everything is always in God's timing. I was supposed to be on your show at least a couple of months ago. And I would have just asked, oh, what should I do after the powerlifting competition in December? But I want to tell you the biggest lesson that I learned from this experience. One was the reverse dieting was awesome, right? And it was very logical for me. I could see the success of the progress. I had no problem with that. But I think you guys have some version of this lesson in every single podcast you do. Your body responds to the signals you send it. And my body was not going to get stronger unless I stopped running, unless I fed it better. And now I'm looking for you to help me with the program that will tell my body it's safe to work out again so that I can heal. Because I still do want to get better at the three lifts. And I still want to be able to throw in a 5K. But bottom line is I should be retiring at the end of the year. And I want to be strong enough to do anything me and my husband want to do on our adventures. So I listen to you guys all the time. And you know, this is what you're telling you. Less is less is more. Listen to your body. So now I'm ready to hear the advice. I'm ready to receive it. I think at this point. All right. So you're going to be okay with less. Yes. Yes. And I'm already there. So I just want to get better. I mean, I'm just doing PT exercises with I found a new PT. And that's all I'm doing and walking. That's it. Okay. Good. Let's go. Maps 15 performance. I like. Okay. Mass 15 performance. I'll send you that program. I think it'll be perfect for you. The symmetry. It's athletically minded. So you'll get that movement. Symmetry would be another good program to follow that up with. You follow that up because then it leads you right into a 5 by 5. That's right. That's right. That's right. It's a perfect. And that would be absolutely perfect for you. Okay. And I think what you just kind of recap on what you said about nutrition. There's really three important things when it comes to nutrition and athletic performance. One is am I eating enough. Two is am I eating the right things. And three is when do I eat these foods. And it's kind of in that order. And a lot of us ignore the first one. Especially athletes who are afraid of gaining weight. So they look at what I'm eating and the timing. But they don't they ignore or they they they misunderstand how much. And so what we just increased their calories and there's people blown away. I can't even believe I feel so good. I'm not gaining all this body fat. I had no idea. This was the issue because I was eating the right foods. I was eating at the right times. It just wasn't eating enough. And so I'm so glad you went through that to kind of get that. It's such a it's a simple button to hit as a coach. Whenever I work with someone like you. And I look at the food and like just the scene increase your calories. Yeah, what's what happens? Yeah, and I think. You know, you keep hitting home about. There was somebody that just was on a gentleman that said he had these injuries. He thought it was going to be out. And he followed it's symmetry. And he like a brand new person. And because I started to feel that way. Like is this it? You know, like everybody who said to me. You're getting old. You know, this is going to happen. And I said, you know, if you do the right thing, I don't think that's the case. And I really have, you know, this whole retirement. I mean, my 60s. And I want to be able to hike or do whatever, you know, kayak and all the things that I haven't really had time for. And I and being in pain, like it affected my sleep. And as you know, we all know that that was an issue. And I think there was different sleep issues, which I'm working on. I actually just got a lot of things. I'm working on. I actually just got my sleep. It just got delivered. So that's awesome. I actually even have the Oslo sleep buds. Those agree. But I just know fundamentally. And I am working with, I don't know if you had Dr. Ures on your show. But she is very full with thinking about peptides and all that. So I always find a group that I can have a communication with and say, here are my issues. So they've been really good. And again, the hormones are making all the difference in the world. But everything was with testing. And I think part of the, what I'm a little nervous about is in my notes. I'm living in our V right now. And we are in, we're remain and we're going to South Carolina and Florida. And we already know with gyms that have how listening equipment, you know, so we already check that. But and I'm still going back and forth about doing a competition. But we might just pick a date and say, okay, let's stop maybe stop the maps, power lift and say, okay, let's just do the one right max on this day. And plus if I joined a power lift in gym, they may have like many things that they do themselves. Or just even somebody. And I do want to work with a coach because I really had a lot of trouble with my squats. Because my adductors were a mess and my hips were a mess. And I almost was afraid I wouldn't get low enough. And so when I got my first white light, I was, I was like good, you know, I'm just concerned that when I don't have access to equipment, am I going to get weaker? I mean, I, that's definitely a little bit concerned for me. But you, you keep stressing that how little volume and then even hearing someone like Adam who did bodybuilding competitions going, I don't work out like that right now. And you know, so it, it almost gives me permission to say, I'm not going to turn into this weak violet if I don't know. No, you're not going to, you're, you're the, when we train someone like you, you're more likely to push and do too much and hurt yourself. Yeah, follow more likely than you are to do too little that you were going to lose something. That's right. So I would never worry about that with someone like you. I'd be constantly probably pulling you back going like, all right, Linda, that's enough. We're good. That's, that's plenty. And so just be thinking like, but those programs are think are perfect. Follow that the way that's laid out. And that's going to set you up really nice. Yeah, it's, it's been quite the journey. And I know that after I hung up last time, Sal was like, you know, what was it like being in the gyms back then? And definitely seeing the progression of women lifting weights. Yeah. And the gym that I belong to here and main, it's, it's fierce. I mean, these people are, I don't know where they grow these butts. They're unbelievable. You know, I got my little skin and running, running butt. But it's very, very inspiring because my contemporaries, it's hard to get guys my age to lift weights. My husband just did a powerlifting competition and he like, he's squatted 400. So he's really strong. Wow. And so that's the, he did very well in, in his, he got his trophy. He's in his 60s also. He is 59. Yeah. And you know, what he said is, I've always, we met in the gym 40 years ago. Crazy. We met in the gym. So that's why we've continued to do it. And like we still eat, we bring our food everywhere we go. You know, and it really makes a difference, especially living in an RV. A little bit different lifestyle. You know, people are right. I'm like, okay, get it. Get it. It's all good. It's all good. But being around other people who do this obviously being married as you have wonderful spouses. It makes a huge difference to, to continue on because, like I said, a lot of my friends, even we have a lot of my husband's also done Iron Man's. And I've done triathlon. So I've done everything. But because they didn't do the way training, they were all crippled. They all, they a lot of them can't run anymore. They, you know, they've had knee replacements. So I don't want to go there. And that's why it was so like, shocking that it finally was my turn. But I mean, when I, you know, all the stress that I had in my life, it was cumulative. And it was a big life change, especially selling a house, getting a daughter married. It was all that. And I'm not about doing too much. I want to do this forever. So, so again, you guys listening to you always continue to talk about. Listening to your body. Don't do too much. And, you know, Sal, I'm an engineer. So I always love that. The study show. I mean, not that I need it, but I do, I do like Dr. Stacey Sims. And Dr. Gabrielle Lyon, I've been listening to them. A lot of people, Bill Campbell, they're all doing a lot of research in postmanopausal women. So the research is there. And it's always about not too much cardio, do hit heavy lifting, but recovery is huge. And I rather do other things too. It's not like I don't, I don't have to run. I don't have to be in the gym all the time. I want to be outside now that I have the time. And I just want to be healthy enough to do it. So you guys, I listen to you all the time. It's such an inspiration. I always think, okay, I'm not going to listen to this because I've heard it before. And you put a spin on something and I'm like, okay, and it sticks on my head. So I really, really appreciate that. Well, thank you, Linda. You're the inspiration. Yeah, we appreciate you and follow the programs. You're going to have a fun trip. If you make it down to the Tampa area, make sure you swim by Ben Pekolsky's gym. So I don't know if you'll be able to do it.
If you guys will make it to Tampa, Florida, but if you make it to Tampa, Florida, you gotta go see Ben Pocos. He just tunes out there. Yeah. We're going to be in the Vero Beach area. That's what I mean, but obviously we're pulling our house all the way down. We have a fifth wheel, which is, which is real. Yeah, this and it is, it's fun. That's the other thing, but when you go to different places, you meet other fun people. Powerlifting competition was very inspiring. Met a lot of women there too. So yes, keep doing what you're doing. You guys are amazing. Send anybody my way. Any woman who doesn't believe what you say. I'll tell them it's all true. I appreciate you. We appreciate you. I know. Oh, I thank you guys. Be good. Record. It's funny. She said we're inspiring. Nothing inspires me more than somebody who's been doing this for a long time. I know. And you just see their energy. It's so incredible. And she is the classic example of a client that you don't have to worry about her not doing enough. Oh, gosh. It's the other way around. It's pulling her back a little bit. She looks great though. Incredible. Our next color is Noah from Montana. What's up Noah? How you doing Noah? Hey guys, how are we doing? Good. How can we help you? Good. I'm excited to be back on. I was on about three years ago and super happy to be chosen again. My question for you guys today is just all about feeling old when I should be feeling young. I'm 21. I'm an electrician. And over the last, I'd say probably three months. I've just been on kind of not downward styles. It's a big term to use. But just a lot of little aches and pains everywhere. It started when I was working on doing some heavier deadlift and I was going to try and work where I might work my way towards a one-wrap max. And I think I'm my hamstring or something, just like a minor strain or something lower down behind the knee and just kind of took it easy with them from there on. It was low back pain when squatting really high wraps and then that work as an electrician. It's low back pain when sitting cross-legged and doing stuff. And then just from here on out, it's just been just kind of almost just fragile and weak, making little jumps down, like a little 16 inch jump. I'm having to be extra cautious. I'm getting pains just moving boxes and stuff in my back. Just a lot of little weird stuff. I've tried to fix some of it, watching YouTube videos and different things, but eventually it's just been constant little things. I need to call them to the experts. From a training perspective, I've been running you guys' programs for about three years now. Last six months did map symmetry currently and maps performance, but life's been really busy so only again to the gym about two times a week for short periods, probably an average of like 45 minutes. During those two times, I don't get to the gym to do those mobility sets. So you might just kick me in the pants and be like, get on the mobility work, but I prime before every workout, cool down everything afterwards, been trying to work on the low back pain and whatnot during priming. And yeah, just trying to figure out where to go from here, training wise and what to do about all these kind of nagging little issues. Yeah, so our first place I would look and I have it, I have a suspicion, but first place is your sleepily crappy? The depends. It's a little off and on. I tried to get about eight hours of sleep the last week. It's probably been a little closer to seven, but it's something I tried to be consistent again, you know, eight hours of sleep. That's not your bad dream. Your party? Yes. How often? No, no, no, sir, I drink a ton of water. That's for my month. No, no. Yes, big drinkers. Yeah. Big drinker. I got a big gallon jug. I take to work and I try to try to get through a lot of that. I'm taking the element. Everyday. So trying to stay hydrated. No, it sounds like you have a nutrient deficiency and that's why you're always hurting. Okay. Yeah, so you can go get tested for vitamin D deficiency. It would be the first place I would look and I'd look at your hormones, but it sounds like you have a nutrient deficiency and you live in Montana. Yes. You're probably not getting much sun. Not in the winter in the summer we get more sun. I'm outside more. I am taken vitamin D and a whole bunch of other vitamins, but how much vitamin D do you touch? I think about 2000 units. So I wouldn't go get tested, go get your nutrients tested. Zinc, magnesium vitamin D would be the first places I would look. 2000 I use a vitamin D is low. Often doesn't do the trip. Doesn't needle. What about calories? I'm curious to just where you are nutritionally. You look pretty lean. I haven't been tracking. I would, this is poor guesstimate, but probably around 2500 on average. So maybe on the odd day pushing up a little bit, but often just in the throws of work and everything. I'm sorry guys, I don't do the best job again to get in the big breakfast that I'm probably pushing around 2500. I would guess. Well, it's all connected. That's why it's, I mean, you're trying to get to the bottom of while this is happening. That's probably because of what Sal is saying. If you're eating in a calorie deficit or barely at maintenance most of the time and you're not hitting your protein intake consistently and then you're pushing the weights, all of this is a recipe for aches, pains, injuries happening. So that could easily be our problem here. The solve is probably putting you in a calorie surplus, making sure you hit your protein intake, going and getting all your stuff checked to see what vitamins you may be lacking and then getting on top of that. So this could be the solve. Normally when someone is young as you are and then you're getting decent sleep, the sleep isn't amazing, but it's not horrible. Right. Yeah, it would have been one of our thought was, you know, the problem was. It's most likely nutrient deficient. Yeah, you got to do an easy test. You can go to blood tests from your doctor, have them test your nutrients, your nutrient levels, and just see where you're at. But it feels like that to me. Have you tried to run a bulk? Have you run a bulk? I have run a bulk before. I haven't done anything super purposely like as guys like we always see where we're always on the bulk and I'm always like thinking about it, but that doesn't mean that it's actually always happening. So yeah, be curious to see just how you felt from that, from intentionally eating in a surplus consistently and hitting your protein intake while lifting to see how much better you feel just from that alone. Would there be some like a small like hack or two that would make it kind of easy way to get that extra protein in? I know you guys harp on having like, you know, full breakfast, take the leftovers from the knife before type of thing. Would there be other little things that be easy ways to get extra 15 grams to 20 grams there? I mean, a better way to answer that would be to kind of ask you, where do you fall short? What's the most difficult for you? Are you missing breakfast? Is that where you miss a time? Do you miss? Oh, yeah. Okay. Well, there you go. Eat breakfast. So that's, I mean, instead of like trying to think of all these little hacks, we tell you go buy this, you know, 20 gram protein thing that you can insert. It's like make an effort to really cautiously have that breakfast. Have it ready to go the night before to where all you do is go microwave it in the morning and go and start your and be consistent with that instead of trying to think of the whole day and all these other things like if you know that's your area where you, that's why we, we talk about that so much because it's common. Yeah. Common and young men to just skip that, grab your energy drink, go start your day and then you don't eat until your first meal is lunchtime and then it's like a sandwich or something that's low protein. But I gotta say, know, when I see a young man who's exercising pretty appropriately, we're gonna twice a week. You should be recovering. You're sleep's okay and you're like, man, I hurt if I jump down, you know, 16 inches or I'm constantly feeling kind of aches and pains everywhere. That sounds like a nutrient deficiency. It sounds like a vitamin D deficiency, but it could also be a zinc deficiency or magnesium. Which is gonna be exacerbated if you're in a calorie deficit. So you just go, you just get a test that dude and see where you're at and it fits vitamin D. If I'm right, first of all, it's an easy test. It's also an easy fix. It's not hard. You know, they put you on 10,000, I use a vitamin D or something like that. And within a week, you'd notice a big difference. We'll put you on that senior real soon. Stop. Stop. Okay. Yeah, I know I'll go get those tested. Like I do supplement with magnesium and zinc, but without knowing, you know, the correct amounts of all that stuff. Again, it's better than nothing, but it's a shot in the dark release. So I've had many clients who took, you know, 1,000, 2,000, 3,000 I use of vitamin D daily, who were also came back and it was too low. Okay. I think Adam, Adam, your levels were low. You took 2,000 I used to do it. I was saying 5,000 I used to do it. And I still tested low. Yeah. Oh, interesting. Yeah, I was saying 5,000 I used a day tested and came back still low. That's right. Yeah. So that's why I do 10. Yeah. Would there be anything on the trainings from a training standpoint that I should make sure to be doing there? If you're following maps and you've got symmetry and performance and you're doing it two days a week, that's not our problem. I don't think that's the best. Back to Sal's point. Like this is probably nutrient deficiency. And if you're not eating enough protein and calories, that's going to exacerbate that. Yep. Yeah. Yeah. That's where I'm. I don't think it's a lack of mobility. I don't think it's a overtraining. It's not a hurt, but yeah, that's not the issue. It probably not. Okay. Well, we will do that. And yeah, we'll go from there. Follow up with us. Yeah. Follow up with us. I'd like to hear. So make sure we get to bottom this. Okay. I'll make sure to send you guys an email. Let's just know what we figure out. So you got it. All right. Thanks, dude. Awesome. Appreciate it. Love listening to you guys. I know every listener talks about it. But hearing you guys talk about everything from fatherhood to faith to just your family life and whatnot. - Super interesting, I love having, you know, really four guys included in Doug here.
have as great role models and whatnot. And yeah, keep up the good work and stand up for what you believe. I love that no one can give by you guys off. I can trust whoever you guys are standing sponsor wise. I've never had any of you guys as sponsors go wrong. And yeah, it's just awesome. That's great role model. Thanks man. Thank you. Thank you, buddy. Awesome. Thanks guys. God bless. You're welcome. Yeah, we had him on when he was held. How old is he? He was three years ago. He said. I was 22. I kind of remember him. I kind of do too. And so, okay, that's why I went to Calorie. I think he under eight, bro. Yeah. I think he under eight back then. You're on the something of that. Yes. And I can't. I can't tell we have to take through and see if we can find it or not. But which is aligned with what you're saying. Because if he's got a nutrient deficiency and then you are also under precautions for recovery. Yeah. So there's a significant percentage of people who are sub-optimal vitamin D. It's a significant percentage. And deficient is still significant. 60% and the darker your skin is, the higher the likelihood and then where you live, right? Montana is not, yeah, in the summer, but in the winter, not getting much at all in a few indoors. He's not getting much sun. And you need more sun that you think to get that up. And so, and it's an easy test. I'd recommend people. And by the way, some people have a lot of pain from vitamin D deficiency. Other people get anxiety and depression. And you know, it's kind of hard to pinpoint, but a simple test will show. Look, if you like the show, come find us on Instagram. It's MindPump Media. Thank you for listening to MindPump. If your goal is to build and shape your body, dramatically improve your health and energy, and maximize your overall performance, check out our discounted RGB
[email protected]. The RGB Superbundle includes maps and a ballad, maps performance and maps aesthetic. Nine months of phased, expert exercise programming designed by Sal Adam and Justin to systematically transform the way your body looks, feels and performs. With detailed workout blueprints and over 200 videos, the RGB Superbundle is like having Sal Adam and Justin as your own personal trainer's butt at a fraction of the price. The RGB Superbundle has a full 30-day money bag guarantee. And you can get it now plus other valuable free resources at MindPumpMedia.com. If you enjoy this show, please share the love. By leaving us a five-star rating and review on iTunes and by introducing MindPump to your friends and family. We thank you for your support and until next time, this is MindPump.
PodcastTranscript AI