Shooting in Mexico Ft. Director Eduardo Ávila

Hello there, welcome to the Army Factory. The podcast that takes you behind the scenes of the mesmerizing world of filming food commercials. I'm Zander, food and tail-tog director, and I'll be sitting down with the true masters of the craft, including directors, food stylists, practical special effects wizards, and anyone involved in this crazy world to hopefully shed some light on what it takes to make food look absolutely mesmerizing on screen. Today, I'm talking to Eduardo Abil, one of Mexico's most well-established commercial directors and co-founder of Frane, Latin America's first tabletop and visual engineering studio. Check out more about Eduardo in the description below. I want to welcome to the show, the man with a sexy AM radio voice, Eduardo Abil. Oh, hello. Eduardo, director, Guadalajara, Mexico-based tabletop, fellow tabletop director. Eduardo has been in the business. I don't want to say that Eduardo, I don't want to presume his age, but I feel like he's been in the business since forever. It certainly feels like I was born into this a very long time ago. Like when dinosaurs woke there. And not only has he been directing forever, but he also founded a production company here Guadalajara. I would assume it is the flagship one of the, if not the biggest and most important commercial production company in Guadalajara. Yes, we are. Yeah, I mean, maybe you can tell me a little bit how it came to be. Like, did you start directing? Did you start producing? Well, let me sort of say, thank you, Sandra, for having me here. And it's a great opportunity to talk about things that we, you know, talk over a beer and amongst ourselves. And it's nice to talk about it in a forum like this. I've been listening to your podcast for a while now and it's very interesting. Thank you. And I feel very honored to be among the list of guests that you have. No, of course, of course. And a lot of people already know that I've been like working here in Mexico for a while. And I think it's going to be super fun to talk about what it's actually like to do tabletop here in Mexico for sure. Yeah. I started mango films like a very long time ago, like 27 years ago, maybe. Wow. Yeah. And it's been a while, right? It's well, however, everyone doesn't know. It's the second largest city in Mexico. And we are very removed from the center of the very centralized advertising business in Mexico. And it's one of the largest in America and in the world. So everything needs in Mexico City. So I always joke around that mango and myself, we are kind of a platypus in a way that we developed and evolved in a very different environment from the Mexican and normal marketing and production, artificial production. And I think it's important to say that Mexico is a huge market. And somebody told me that Mexico City is the city where the most shoots happen in a year. Or maybe it's between India, New Delhi and Mexico City. It's the two cities in the world where the most productions happen between, I don't know, commercials, telegenoa, last TV shows. And it's a huge market. And it's a lot going on. And Guadalajara being the second largest city, obviously it's also like an important city when it comes to audiovisuals and commercials. Yeah. I was very surprised as well because when I learned about the numbers of Mexico City is a huge, well, it's one of the largest, if not the largest cities in the world. So it has a lot of production between movies. And now with all the streamers producing a lot of work and a lot of content for Latin America in Mexico City, it's like everyone is working all the time. There's huge amounts of technical equipment and they are booked and it's kind of difficult. It's a lot of demand to get the supply for that demand and the scapening. And one of the things that we did with Mango and then Laura, my partner and me, we met up with Alvaro Gisaro and we found a frame which is a visual engineering company. And we developed kind of a different style of production studio. That's right. We had our own studio, our own lights and we worked with Steve Gerard from the garage and Matt Hoover to develop a very independent self-contained studio outside of that centralized market. That is also very, very interesting and important to say that there is frame which was funded three and a half, four years ago. It is the only place in Latin America that does have everything in house. So you have the robots, you have two robots, you have all the gear, the rigs and the team, the visual engineers behind creating all these Gismos and contraptions. Yeah. That's what I'm most proud of. The team that we have, because the robot can have it anywhere, but to develop a team that has that ingenuity and we have that, I always joke about that. There is the low tech, then there's high tech and then the Aztec. So we have that Mexican ingenuity and we always find a way to do things. But Cisepuela and Mentalities, for sure. Yes, yes you can. Cisepuela, yeah, weibo. So yes, we have that and these are very great. I think it's a very lovely combination of that high technology and engineers from, you know, the mechatronics and everything, but also have these playfulness and we love to work and come up with the solutions. I just took an example and I remember the first time I came here a couple of years ago, I came with Vinny Hoin, a DP that worked with a lot. Love Vinny. Yes. And the first thing we realized that, you know, like you may not have the Ari Skype panels or some stuff that you might have in Europe or in the States where you just go, "Okay, why don't this, this?" And then you had your own custom builds, high frame rates, light setup there and it just works exactly the same. And then Vinny looked at it. First of all, he was super impressed and he was like, "Uh-huh, okay, let me do it." Okay, cool. And it works exactly the same. It's like made in Mexico, Aztec made, but no, it's great. I love that because we find a way to get things done and what Alacaro is, it's a city that has this DNA of technology because it's been known as the Silicon Valley of Mexico. So huge companies like IBM, Hilda Parker and all those engineering IT companies have their basis here. There's a lot of high tech and this mindset of, you know, animators and developers and engineers and everything. And then we have that approach of, you know, play around and find the way of doing things. And that's kind of the platypus analogy that I always say that it's different. We evolve differently. So we have this input that when you get your project with us, we get really excited working in it and develop things that we learned the hard way to work with less and do more. And it's also, I mean, I feel like NFWT was a couple of tailored up productions all over the world. And as you said, like you have everything here, you just have to find the right people and they might be somewhere else. I mean, I guess another great example of this is, you know, for tabletop, you need dummies, you need an oversized cookie or whatever. And here, for example, you guys work with the "Taiér de Tucho", which is the, you know, they mainly do stop motion. And they, for example, they did the Netflix produced Pinocchio movie with Guillermo Doro, who also comes from Waterhada. So, you know, you have this amazing studio, you know, who's who we're doing stop motion feature films at the highest level. you can just, you know, call them up and say, "Hey, by the way, uh, uh, than just creating these amazing characters, could you do me an oversized cookies or this oversized chocolate so I can shoot this? So yeah, I mean like you, you have to maybe think a little bit, you know, around the corner, but you know, you have all the solutions that you need to create tabletop at the highest level, for sure. Yes. And it's super exciting. It's super exciting and one of the things that I like about my job is that I began a long time ago with no formal education or anything and which I just keep on learning as I go. And when I began doing, when Alvaro Laura and myself would still began this, I'm very fairly new in the, I mean, I'm the very young on the tabletop market. And at the beginning, I was a little, you know, trying to find what my style was, what I liked, what I tried to approach and being from, you know, I love to work on location with actors and, you know, children and the weather and everything's when and then when I came into the, yes, because you know, you solve problems all the time. So when I came up, when then I came to the tabletop world, it kind of happened in a very abrupt way. And at the beginning, I was kind of bored and I tried to understand why it would take so long to do one take that I wanted. But once I got the, you know, like the vibe of how things work, I, I, now I get really excited on how to find that the way that that, I don't know, nugget kits, the ketchup sauce and, you know, tries to, to just, to work around that, technical side and make it amazing and make it look beautiful and appetizing and I make things larger in life because I feel like we work with these very small things, you know, before this, you know, millimeters wide and it happens in a millisecond and, and this very small, but I like to see it like very huge in the, in the sunscreen that it feels the weight and you feel like the impactfulness of it and I feel, you know, a small, sure, bouquet, things flying around and I, I'm, I'm really excited when I get to work on that and find a solution to it and it's, it's very exciting when it works, you know. And also, I mean, like you have the, the great asset that now these robots are in your, in your own office, you know, it's like you walk in there and you can do tests because as you said and that's what we, we always talk about. We are not magicians, we all, we need time, like, they just make something look great in each time, especially when you want to do something that's never been seen before. And, yeah, just being able to, you know, go into the studio, turn on the light, turn on the robot, the phantom and just say, hey, can we, as you said, like, granules of sugar, I want to, you know, can we use this granules of sugar and like just like, that's strong in the air and see how it looks like and capture it at a thousand frames per second. Oh, maybe a two thousand frames per second and you go, okay, this is looking good and then you can already show it to the client or whatever. It's amazing. Yeah, it's, that's a privilege that I have that I can walk into the office one day and just walking with Willy and Luis the engineers and say, you know, I was thinking about ahead of dream. Yes. If we could do, you know, maybe, I don't know, some marbles and some sugar and what happens if the camera go from here from this and they go like, yeah, maybe. So we work on that shot for, you know, a couple of days and experiment and everything and we don't even know what we are going to use it for, but we will use the learning that we do and that exercise for the client, you know, or if we have, you know, a specific project that we're bidding for, I can, you know, work with the birch in experience and try to find, do a lot of experimenting then when we get to the to the work, you know, we hit the floor running and we know, we all have all the experimentation and learning before even we started on the project. So it's, it's, I think it's an advantage for me as a director, director, bro, so for the client and on the on the brand, of course, you get much more of what you will respect on that project. And I feel like frame being the very first, you know, a production company with everything in house. I mean, there's, there are other table top-属 action companies in Mexico for sure, but like having engineers and robots and everything in house and being able to test, you know, that stuff, I feel that agencies are still not very familiar with this way of working off like how, how time consuming robots are and how the workflow is different, you know, than your regular lifestyle shoot. Yes, and we are the only ones that can offer that. So I'm, and you're, you're being working on a project for like, it looks looks like forever. I've seen you in the office like, for less than the past six months and you begin shooting next Monday or something. Monday, yes. Yeah. We started shooting tomorrow. No, it's been, it's been amazing because we, we actually have two whole weeks of shoot. We have like nine different products that we're doing, you know, a lot of very complex shoots with. And we had two entire weeks of testing. So it's been two weeks that I have been kind of paced like, like shoots, but it's just been testing. Testing the rates. Does it look right? Is this the right lens? Writing should down, taking pictures. And then letting the whole crew know what we're going to do. So as you said, we hit the floor running and, you know, we can deliver everything on time. And that it looks good. And also, you know, sharing the tests with agency and clients so they can, you know, see what they can expect. And it's been crazy. But I also wanted to talk to you a little bit about, you know, for me, it's, it was a little bit of a learning curve, you know, getting to the Mexican market and how, how the pitches are here. And I just wanted to quickly describe my experience because, and I know a lot of people, you know, listening to the show, you know, in the states and Europe, I think the pitching process is very similar. But here I was very at the first, you know, my first pitch was very confusing because here, actually, you don't get a brief, you don't get a PDF for a PowerPoint presentation. You don't know what you just know the brand, okay? Brand blah, blah, you know, wants to do a project. But you have no idea what's going to be. And you have like one day where they're going to like reveal to the world what we're actually going to do. So you get a link to a team's meeting and then you go in there and then you will meet all the other production companies and all the other directors and the agency and the client and the first, for the first time, they will unveil, you know, the, the project and what we're going to do and we're all there listening to it, and then making and then making questions and getting our answers and then boom, okay, now you have four days to prepare the presentation. And this for me was completely new because normally you get, you get a, you know, you get the treat that the brief and then you already know, okay, before the call, what you're getting yourself into and you have some questions prepared or whatever. And it's just like like a very intimate thing between the director and the, and the agency. And then the pitching process, something that I really like about pitching here is that you get to, you get to present the picture yourself. You get to actually talk to the people and explain what you're going to do. But the first time I did this, I did my treatment exactly the way I would do it in any, you know, and the markets that I know and I presented this 90 page completely, you know, written Bible with all the Shabang. That nobody read. Yeah. And, and then I was like, okay, now you can send it to the agency. I was like, no, no, no, no, they're not going to read this. You have to present this, okay, I'm like, oh, but how much time do I have? And like, I don't know. And then when I actually started pitching, they said, okay, you have had half an hour. I had just 90 page three was like, oh, shit, I don't know. So I was rushing through it. I was like, complete chaos. I completely messed it up. Obviously, I didn't get the job. But now it's learned. But you're a couple learn. Yes. Yes, I think it's very different. I, well, this is the way that I've been working for a long time so for me is not that exotic. And when I pitched big up pitching in the US as a director, I found like the opposite of your experience. You know, so here when you get to this first meets when, when you get brief, everyone is there like client, the, the creatives and then there's a lot of people. And it's kind of a surprise party, you know, when you get in. And everything lights up and then you realize who is in the call and you spend like the first minutes reading everyone's names and trying to fight for your out. That's the guy from the creative. He's the director, the director, he's from a sheep from plant or a sheep from. Exactly. You know who you are up against because they tell you when they summon you but sometimes it's very. I don't understand why they will give these mystery vives that you sometimes you don't know what the product is or what you're getting yourself into and then. Right. And that briefing I think it has some advantages because you get all the same information and everyone can ask the same questions so everyone gets like the same package or what the the product is about and you ask things and it's very funny because to me as a director I try not to ask things that I might open the eyes of someone else. Yeah. Exactly. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Because then you start like that because you know as a director that's what you start doing. Now you start looking at angles of like what if we did this, what if we did that? How about it? That's a thing but also you were kind of asking permission or like seeing how much creative freedom you have but I was saying you know if in that call you start pointing those things out you're giving that advantage to you know. To the audience. Yeah. And you see them on the call like you know that face of "Oh I hadn't thought about that. That's a good idea." So well you try to avoid that. And then you go and begin working on your treatment and it's about the same that you will do in the US you know like the same elements but here is more because you are going to present it in a meeting so it's not that's so much a self-explanatory. So if you send a lot of text people want to read it and but you need a lot of visual references. Yeah. And that's one of the things that works great with us on the brain because we can you know show the testing and we can show things that we have done and we know how it works and then you get a date and a time for you to percent. So you get like a production company A it's from 10 a.m. to 10.45 and then the other one is 11 to 11.45 and then 12 to 1 and 12.45 and 15 minutes for questions and everything. And then you percent but it's kind of awkward now because we all do it on on a meeting you know like Zoom meeting or beats and I hate Microsoft for me. Oh yes yeah yeah teams software. Yeah teams meeting. Yeah. I hate that. It's terrible. It is terrible. I know there's certain people who are going to be listening to this and yes I will say it or in our again teams socks. Give us a like if you're a dude you agree? So well it sucks for presenting out of your shorts so I guess it's great for something else but not for us. So and then you you know it's like of we used to do this on in person you know you will go to a meeting room and you will have people there and you will engage with them and you you will see if they're smiling or nothing or not enough you know and and you can even adjust your presentation as you go. Yeah and that thing I that's one of the things that I like to do well on the on the old days and then now do you have like this presentation that everyone turns off their cameras and you feel like you're recording you know like a YouTube channel and you speak to your computer and you don't know what's going on and it's very to me it's a little bit stressful. No it's nerve-wracking it's like I don't know it's like if you were a comedian and you know like you need to see the audience you need you need to see if they react if they not if they smile and if everyone turns off their camera it's kind of like you're speaking to avoid and you're like it's like are they liking this and you know what us as directors we have this kind of a performing like we like to perform in a way and this is our moment to perform and and you know pitch the idea and get really excited about it and then you say and this moment it will you know your product will shine and it will look amazing and the slow money will eat and the blah blah and then you get nothing no laughter no nothing from the audience so it's and you go like a huh Cricuts and you okay so I'll go to the next light and the next light and you try to sell it again and then at the end you say well is there any questions we need to review anything else and then go no no everything's clear thank you very much and shall we go to the timetable and the budget and you go like okay that's a part with all directors just zone out okay let's go and then the same thing happens to the production you know the secret producer or I see Laura or Jovenska going and trying to you know get it people excited and there's nothing and then well thank you bye and then you go and I then to compare it to imagine that you go and play a soccer match then you give the rubber thing you know and you're really excited and then you go home and you don't know if you won or lost okay yeah so you end up like okay let's move on to the next thing it's like you you shot you got penalties but you shot the penalties blindfolded and you did how if you hit the target or not you just shot shot shot shot and you go back home and then that at some point they reveal if you hit the target or you didn't hit the target exactly and then you feel that you you get this because you as a director you are really like emotional or insecure and they I'm sure they hated it or they loved it and you you get this by or you feel that you went well and or went bad and it happens every time that you feel that you just nailed it and you feel like they loved it and then you get the email that we are one of the things for someone else or the opposite happens as well that you go like you know I just fuck this up and I should have said this or that or whatever and then you get awarded so you never know to me it's a lot of the times it's that the opposite but I feel like oh I nailed this then I lose it and when I think like I don't know this could have gone either way and I get it but again nowadays I feel even though you make a great presentation and they might like your ideas it's also a budget thing you know you never know if if another truckian company just went in you know a couple bucks lower and and then they decide like it's it's it's it's hard to know nowadays you know it's hard to know and then and the budget is always I was I was pride to have like you know the best lenses that we can have the best and the the that you can have and try to have like something good for the real set you know the portfolio has to shine so if you begin to compromise things and get the the the budget lower and lower and then doesn't look that good and everyone is you know to end up losing and everyone loses yeah yeah so yeah but it's a tight rope act you know like to have that perfect budget that reflects a perfect vision and do the perfect performance and the good thing and and and and you know like whereas still I felt back you know my comfort zone is once you get the project and you're in full you know production mode pre-production mode I feel it's exactly the same everywhere you know you have the same struggles you have to find creative solutions to solve problems as you were saying at the beginning you know fight the weather yes you know casting pool do we like this person mad you know she's great but her hands are not so good because she's going to be holding the cookie and we're going to have a close up cookie and you know how these kind of things and also you you're going to you will all find everywhere you know clients that are insecure or might not understand something and you know like like it's it's the same everywhere yes but but also I think that I love that about my job that it's more that no job is equal you know there's something is always there's something different even if you're doing a pouring shot that you've done like a hundred times it's different it's it's it's a new you know challenge to to to work with then the new team and new things that happen and I try to keep my work well as with you know live action and I try to work with actors and as I said like you know I like to be outside but also use that the things I've learned with the tabletop work you know works like both ways that you learn you bring things from the live action work into the tabletop and the other way around and I think be sure the things get richer as as you do more experimenting and try to have fun every time.