Shocking Things You Didn't See at Lindsay Clancy Trial

The Lindsay Clancy trial created a division inside the courtroom and out from public spectacle. "This is a funeral. This is a funeral." "This is not a funeral. They already gave me life for war. Why are you yelling at me?" To screaming protesters. "They like make me uncomfortable." And a mob scene around the defense attorney. "I was in the middle of it all, both outside of the courtroom and in, and now I'm taking you inside the courtroom to explain what you didn't see. This is Scandal, presented by Lawn Cron. I'm Thiergeleska." "All right, members of the jury. At this point, I'm going to declare that the jury is deadlocked and I'm going to declare a mistrial." The moment that mistrial was declared. I was there. Inside the courtroom, the front row seated just feet from the jury. The same 12 jurors who spent seven days more than 30 hours in a deliberation room just to end up deadlocked. After weeks of testimony, hundreds of exhibits, and heroing details that will never truly be able to wrap our minds around. And you watched it all on our livestream. Every moment that was allowed to be recorded, that is. But when the camera went to the seal, as a sidebar was called, or the jurors entered, there were things that you missed. And now, I'm here to fill in those gaps. Take, for instance, the heated sidebar midway through deliberations when Kevin Reddington himself raised his voice at the judge through papers in his face and even wheeled Lindsey Clancy herself up to the sidebar. "Ted, my heart is literally beating so fast right now. I ran from the courtroom down here. That was the most intense thing I've seen and that courtroom or any courtroom I've ever been in." Or as another example, the audible shock in the courtroom when just seconds away from declaring a mistrial, Kevin Reddington forced the game into overtime with a shocking ruling from judge Sullivan. "I'll give you an hour before we bring the jury back down." And then, there's what happened outside of the courtroom. The screaming, the protests, the way Kevin Reddington was mobbed every time he came in and out of the courthouse, some reporters or photographers even getting injured in all the mayhem. This was a five-and-a-half week-long trial, plus seven days of deliberations. "I'll give you my take on it all. Before we bring in another reporter who was there for it all, it's LA Magazine reporter Lauren Conlin, who's been following this case extensively." So you're going to hear what I have to say, what Lauren has to say, and what she saw that I didn't. And there's so much to unpack here and no time to waste, so let's begin with the basics. Lindsay Clancy was charged with three counts of first-degree murder in the deaths of her three children. Five-year-old Kora, three-year-old Dawson, and eight-month-old Callan, Lindsay strangled the children with exercise bands in the basement of her Ducksbury, Massachusetts home on January 24, 2023. After that, she attempted to end her own life by slitting her wrists and throat, swallowing some crushed-up pills, and jumping from a second-story window. She survived this jump, but is now paralyzed from the waist down. Her trial began in July of this year, with an interesting plea. Lindsay admitted that she did it, but claimed she wasn't criminally responsible, saying she was in the midst of a mental health breakdown at the time. Specifically, she says she was suffering from postpartum psychosis. Now, the first time I was in the courtroom was during jury selection. This is back in July. Lindsay's parents were there and so too were a decent amount of media, but that was really it. Again, this was a couple of months ago before the case took the internet by storm, and at that point, the gallery was largely empty. To me, at the time, the most notable people, besides Lindsay and her family, were seated in the front row behind Lindsay, two of her nurses who were there at all times. Now, Lindsay's attorney, Kevin Reddington, made mention of the nurses a couple of times throughout the trial. He noted that Lindsay is paralyzed from the waist down and doesn't really have control of her bladder. Now, he didn't get into specifics, but it's likely that these nurses are here to help Lindsay either changing her catheters or being placed on and off the toilet or just cleaning. And again, this is speculation to be clear. But also to be clear, it's very obvious that Lindsay is in a wheelchair. She's wheeled in to the seat behind the defendant's desk, either by one of those nurses, a court officer at times, Kevin Reddington himself. It's very obvious that she's paralyzed, and she needs the assistant of these nurses. None of this can be lost on the jurors. Those nurses were right there in the front row, and always at the ready in case Lindsay needed something. Now, I personally never saw that. They were respectful. They exchanged pleasantries with her parents or Kevin Reddington, but for the most part, they just kind of kept themselves. The same could be said for Lindsay. You saw her a lot on her live stream, at times crying, putting her head down, or just staring straight ahead. But what was Lindsay like before the cameras got rolling? I had the unique experience of being in the courtroom before it was crowded. At times, Lindsay would be wheeled in and remain in complete silence. At other times, she looked like she had been crying, and this was really noticeable to me when I got a look of her straight on. During deliberations, she came into the courtroom with what looked like mascara smeared all down her face. Where the camera was placed, viewers could only see the left side of her face, and in this video, she looked sad, but not broken. However, when I saw her front on, before the camera was off the seal, it was clear that Lindsay had been breaking down in the moments before she's wheeled in. On another instance, though, I saw Lindsay smiling. And again, this is before the camera started rolling, but she did have a noticeable smile on her face, smiling with her teeth even. Now, I couldn't tell what this was in reference to. I couldn't hear what she was saying. Was she joking? Slightly? Was she laughing? But I will say she was in the middle of a conversation with Kevin Reddington. And that leads to my next observation here, the relationship between Kevin Reddington and Lindsay Clancy. Now, Reddington has been outspoken to the media, saying he loves Lindsay, and he even thinks of her as a daughter. I've seen them hugging, embracing, and Reddington says she's even cried into his chest, noting that at times there was mascara stains on his jacket, after a really harsh day in court. But at the same time, I noticed a comradery between them. I never thought Lindsay interacted with her parents or her sister while she was in the courtroom. The only time I ever saw her with her nurses was when she was being wheeled in or out, but with Reddington, it was clear that Lindsay opened up. She wasn't very talkative, but definitely more talkative before the camera started rolling, and it even looked like the pair were bonding. For example, a lot of people questioned what was on the desk in front of Lindsay during closing arguments. Some people thought even kind of looks like pills. They weren't. In reality, these were cinnamon flavored altruids. Now, I asked Kevin Reddington himself before the camera started rolling. He said they were his favorite. He gave them to Lindsay during closings as a bonding type thing, or for something to keep retention away from the gravity of the situation. And I guess now is a good time to note the layout of the courtroom. As a viewer, you know Lindsay and Reddington, they're on the right side of the room kind of facing the judge. That's the defendant's table. The first row behind Lindsay was reserved for her nurses, and the row after that was for her family. This is her parents, her sister came during deliberations, even Dr. Zyzel showed up after his testimony, a priest was there two at times. Now behind that was usually Reddington's own son, Patrick Reddington, other people from the defense team, and on really packed days, other media would fill the remaining seats. Now on the left side of the courtroom, this is the Commonwealth's table. This is what you saw on the livestream. To the left of that was the jury box, 12 members of the eventual jury, and six alternates. In the first row behind the Commonwealth was the still photographer, the videographer, and me. Lawn crime and court TV acted as pool in this trial. And basically what that means is this is a case of really big interest. Everyone wants video, local stations, national outlets, even international outlets. But if every single station had a camera inside the courtroom, there would be no room for any reporters, spectators, family, things of the light. So in a case like this, the media works together. We have one single videographer to shoot pool, meaning our videographer was the person behind every single shot you saw anywhere in this trial. Now he sends that video out to every single station or network anyone who wants it. That way the courtroom isn't too crowded and everyone gets the same footage. So because Lawn crime and court TV were shooting pool, I got a special seat in the courtroom to the left of the camera. Just feet away from those jerse. More on that in a minute. Now the row right behind the photographers was interesting. For the most part, it was completely empty and it was kept that way on purpose. This row was reserved for Patrick Clancy and his family in the event that they wanted to attend any of the proceedings. And according to my photo, the guy who was there every single day of court, stragglers from Patrick's family occasionally showed up and receded in that row, but never Patrick himself. Every single time I was there, the row was completely empty with one exception, closing arguments. That's when this row was completely full of first responders who were involved in the case. And you may recognize one of them as trooper Timothy Chappini who testified on August 13th. One of the other searches that you did would be, or you were aware that there were searches for medical, such as questions regarding bipolar symptoms, psychosis. Can you be in DKA without high blood sugar? Page after page after page. Tresadone. Trasadone, what is the effect of Trasadone, Walbutron, how do you feel on Trasadone, Adavian addiction, Prozac, Trasadone going on and on and on. You guys saw this on the search on her phone, to celebrate, right? I recall those searches, sir. Now, he was stated in the row right behind me, the second row, when this closing argument was presented to jerseys. And when the police charged somebody with a criminal offense, they have an obligation to investigate. At the end of the day, when you're talking about, well, we've got the charges of before the court, you can sit there in the court, you can feel proud of yourself. You don't have an investigation. You even know what this, you'll see the photograph of the cop in the powder. What is it? What is it? They don't even analyze. Did they take pictures? Did they test the blood? Did they. Lousy investigation? This, of course, was the defense closing argument making reference to the alleged "lousy" investigation by police following the children's death. Online, many people point to this, the missing 15 minutes of Patrick Clancy, the Apple Watch that wasn't collected by first responders, a pill crusher that was never found. Now, writing to through these things out in his closing argument, and you saw it because the camera was pointed at him, but what you didn't see was behind the camera. The first responders were getting pretty tense at this phrase "lousy" investigation. No one said anything verbally, but their body language was clear. They didn't like that little dig. They kind of tensed up and did that kind of movement. And there's no way I was the only one who saw this either, because at this point, the courtroom was filled. The day closing arguments were presented was the most packed I've ever seen the courtroom, second only to when the mistrial was finally announced. So now I've got to talk about the gallery. As the case began to pick up steam online, the gallery seats for the public began to fill. By the time closing arguments rolled around, it was completely packed. Court officers were literally counting the number of seats available, and allowing only that number of spectators into the courtroom. It became literally shoulder to shoulder. I saw people who were four and against Lindsay, but what I didn't expect to see was a dog. What? All right, number is entering. This dog's owner didn't want to speak on camera, but I caught up with her when the court was in recess. She was a Lindsay Clancy supporter, and the dog was her service dog. She told me she brought a bouquet of flowers for Lindsay, her family, and others going through mental health struggles as a way to show support during this difficult time. And that's a pretty good segue into discussing the crowds and the divisiveness of this case. Supporters for Lindsay usually wore pink. People opposing Lindsay would wear black or white, and at times they clashed. I will respect your opinions, respect mine, respect all of ours, that's all that matters, it doesn't. I'm not judging you, I'm not judging you, I'm not judging you, to someone, and then you, and you jump all out my clothes, you're here again, out my clothes, you're about as something, and you don't have anything in your hand on. You guys are not even finished. Don't call us out just because we're in pink, you're wearing black. Does that have a meaning? Does one know what the, yes it does. This is a funeral. This is, this is a funeral. They are having a baby's lives with us. Why are you yelling at me? I'm not, I'm just making sure everybody can hear us. I'm not yelling at you. I'm making sure everybody's not being on the same page. This right here is a funeral. Okay, would you wear that to a funeral? Three babies' lives were lost when making this funeral. You're not negating that. Never was asked for got about that. You're donating money. You're donated money. I haven't donated sh*t. If this is about your, you're representing mental illness awareness, why wasn't the money donated and you shouldn't have taken this away? Why money? You should be running money. First of all, I mean, you're going to have to hold that. Hold on, hold on, hold on. Don't ever tell me what I should, it should not work. That video was taken by LA Magazine's Lauren Conlin, again, who we're going to be talking to later in this episode. We'll talk about that during our interview with Lauren, but the amount of screaming outside the courtroom was intense. That fight was really a showdown between those supporting Lindsey and others opposing her. And then also, there's protests too. So we might want to grab those. They're talking about the Salem witch trials. So this happened just moments before I was set to go live on August 28th. Far-right activists jakeling and his crew shut up to the courthouse. They were blasting ACDC and screaming. Here's a video of them after all of it died down and you can get a better idea of what they were saying or protesting. The signs say liberal women equal mental illness and another sign says we used to burn witches at the stake. To which I do have to say we have the right to protest here in America, but also in America, witches were never burned at the stake. 19 alleged witches were killed during the Salem witch trials, but they were hung, and only one man was stoned to death. No burning. Either way, this group has the right to protest and they did so outside the courthouse. And I don't know if you can tell, but this is me kind of uncomfortable before a live shot. Tell me if they got too close to me. I don't want to turn around. They like make me like uncomfortable. So much so that I coordinated with my team to move me completely from this location to another area farther away from the protesters before I went live. We're done with Kevin now, right? I could go back. We could move my sticks over there. We could do that. Where's Rich? Can you text Brian and tell him I am. I am. I am. I literally ran off to the other location and postponed my live hit to separate myself from all of this. Oh yeah, Julia, we were about to go live with you and all of the sudden things got a little bit crazy, so we had to move locations. Now, I know that I've been on court TV all week talking about, you know, has there been a lot of people here or, you know, a lot of protests not really until today. That wasn't the only time this happened. On another instance, a woman began screaming literally at the top of her lungs during a recording for Vinny Polytan investigates. I had to start over my sentence and apologize for messing up because I was so thrown off. Oh my god, I'm so sorry you guys. This woman was just screaming at the top of her lungs and I was like, I said the wrong name. I know I did. This is something that does happen when you go live and I'm kind of used to that part, but I have to say it does throw me off when someone is screaming murderer at the top of their lungs next to my camera. It's it's kind of hard because I'm supposed to be looking forward at the camera, blocking everything else out and reporting. But what if something happens behind me? What if somebody's coming up toward me? It's just unnatural. And that's the thing in this case because you never really know what's going to happen next and things really get intense. Like, for example, the post court Kevin Reddington scrubs. The crowd behind me is forming because Kevin Reddington is going to come out at any moment. So that's going to be happening and we'll hear what he has to say about this deadlocked jury. Multiple reporters asked Reddington if he would go to a podium after court and he said he didn't do podiums. That is until after the mistrial was declared. So this Reddington scrum became a thing and this meant reporters surrounded the doors to the courthouse immediately after court waiting to be close enough to hear Reddington and what he has to say. So this means a reporter myself is at the front holding a mic so you get the sound and a photographer is a little farther back trying to get the best video possible. And it's always kind of a guessing game because there were two doors for Reddington to leave through. So we usually had one crew at each door. Then we would try our hardest to get good sound for our viewers and ask questions that were relevant. Here's an example of how this started. And this was a good day by the way. I was able to get the first two questions in. Kevin are you saying you don't want to come join us? This continues for minutes and we're all pressed up against each other. As I ask this question, another reporter is literally resting their microphone on my shoulder. That's how close of quarters we were. What about the implications in the future? I mean, depending on this verdict, do you think we could see changes in Massachusetts or even federal laws ahead? I would hope so. I mean, especially with the treatment in post-Platum psychosis. It does exist and people think it's funny to say, "Oh yeah, I heard voices." Yeah, people do. And maybe this gets some light on that issue. It is a social issue that has to be addressed. And this case maybe lit the spark. After a while, Reddington would begin walking toward his car. And the scrum would go along with him. I wore running shoes every single day to court so I could sneak around the crowd, throw my microphone in, and hope for the best. But there were literal obstacles throughout all of this, a row of cameras with tripods, for example, or concrete benches that multiple reporters ran into. There were also fans who would just appear at this Reddington scrum and he would stop and take pictures. If you thought the madness stopped when I made it through the courthouse security, you would also be wrong. As the days of deliberation drug on, the inside of the courthouse became more and more intense. Now no videos or photos are allowed inside the courthouse with the exception of our photographer who's shooting pool. Unfortunately, I don't have any photos or videos, but I'll describe to you what I saw. As deliberations were ongoing, the entire third floor of the courthouse was filled with reporters. All of the benches were filled, people were typing up their stories, making calls, tweeting out updates, whatever it may be. And there were so many reporters that every single seat was filled, meaning many reporters myself included just sat on the floor outside of the courtroom for hours. And this was so we could be close by. In case there was a juror question or a verdict, the only time you really left the courthouse was between 1pm and 2pm, and this is when lunch was served. That meant that if there was a question or a verdict, the judge was off. So nothing could be reported until he was back. For the last two days of deliberations, the third floor of the courthouse also saw an increase number of spectators, people who wanted to sit in the courtroom as the updates were given. But this caused even more issues. There simply wasn't space for the amount of people who wanted to be in the courtroom. The spectators began filling the halls, sitting on reporter's feet, that is actually true. One woman even elbowed me as I tried to leave, go down the stairs to go outside for a life hit. The intensity mounted as the deliberations drug on, and more so as jurors indicated they were at a deadlock. Thank you, Madam Clerk. Well, members of the jury, I've got your question and the question is, after many hours of deliberation, we are unable to come to unanimous decision. I brought you back out because I know that this was a long trial, all right. I know there are over 80 witnesses, there are over 300 exhibits, but because of that, I'm going to ask you to go back out, keeping in mind all the instructions that I gave you to go out and to continue your deliberations at this time, all right. So with that, I'm going to ask you to go back out, like I said, keep in mind the instructions I gave you, reviewing the evidence, and I'd ask you to resume your deliberations at this time. Okay. Thank you. That was on September 1st. And let me say, that at this point, reporters were buzzing in the halls. It all kind of seemed like a deadlock, but to their credit jurors went back and began to deliberate again. They came back another time, though, indicating a deadlock. And this time, the judge read a formal charge, something called the Chewie Rodriguez charge. This compels the jury to go back and try again, even after they felt like they reached a deadlock. Inside the courtroom, things felt tense, but more so the following day, the jurors came back again, saying they'd reached a deadlock. The four-person alleging that one juror was not following the law is it pertains to reasonable doubt. But at the time, we didn't know any of this. All we knew is that both sides were called to the sidebar, and things got intense. This is a video that went viral about that sidebar, so I'll let it speak for itself. It's had my heart is literally beating so fast right now. That was the most intense thing I've seen in that courtroom or any courtroom I've ever been in. Okay, so here's how it starts. We know that there is a note from the jury. We're not sure if it's a question, a comment, a note, whatever. And the buzz is perhaps they're saying once again, we're hung, okay? So we go in right away, they begin at a sidebar. And this is the most intense sidebar I've ever seen. I really wish I could hear what they were saying, or is saying rather, couldn't hear what they were saying, but it got very intense. At one point, both prosecutors looked like they were going to break down in tears. Eventually, I did see Jen's spread kind of dab her eye. I'm not sure if she had something in her eye or if she actually was crying, but it was emotional clearly on her face. She looked defeated, deflated, very upset. Kevin Reddington, on the other hand, didn't look sad. He looked mad. He literally turned red. At one point, the judge handed him a pamphlet, some paperwork. He threw it back at the judge, pounded his fists literally on the desk, and was pointing the judge even raised his voice. I couldn't quite make out what he said, but you could hear that the judge was yelling over the sidebar. Eventually, Kevin Reddington rushes back to Lindsay Clancy at the defendant's table, and he lays his hands over it. He puts his forehead, four heads of four head with Lindsay Clancy and is talking to her very intensely. And he gets behind the wheelchair, wheels her up there and starts talking very animated with his hands. All of this continues, and suddenly, jurors are being brought in. One by one each juror is sworn in by the clerk. They're going through. They can't understand what they're saying or make out, rather, I can't hear it. But they all seem to answer one to three questions. They nod or they shake their heads. It's seemingly yes or no questions. Go through. All by the judge. All by the judge. Correct. And as all the jurors accept the alternate. So obviously, the deliberating jurors. And when I'm in there, thinking, just I'm kind of guessing, are they pulling the jurors? Is that what's going on? Is there really a hung jury and they're pulling them? But eventually, they're all taken back. The sidebar continues again, reddington once again, getting red, slamming his fifth, pushing papers back to the judge. Eventually, I think, I think I hear him say, like throws his hands up in the air, walks back to the table, and then eventually he's back on the record. And this is when we find out that there is one juror that is a holdout. We've been speculating about this for days at this point, Ted. We don't know if it's split down the middle. If it's 60, 40, whatever it is, no allegedly. There is one juror who cannot follow the law when it comes to reasonable doubt, everyone in the courtroom was shocked. And when the judge told the jury that they needed to go back and deliberate, they're literally with an audible gasp in the courtroom. I've never heard anything like it before. From the gallery. Correct. And I stand by this. This was truly one of the most intense moments I've ever experienced in my entire life in a courtroom. All of the reporters left just as shocked, not expecting what we just saw. The next morning, all the jurors were questioned individually, and then sent back to deliberation again. And again, they were turned to deadlock. And here's where things shocked the world all over again. Just when a mistrial was about to be declared, Kevin Ridington pushed the game into overtime. "It is with a heavy heart that we report we are unable to come to a unanimous decision and will not be able to." You're on our, from the Commonwealth's perspective, since the TUE instruction has already been given, and then there was less deliberation after that, I think that it would require a mistrial at this point. I believe under the statute, as well as the case law of this court, has the ability to send the jury back. The fact that that jury for a person wrote very unusually, it is with a heavy heart that we are unable to come to a decision, based on the earlier questions that we have, I think it would be a sound and a wise decision for this court to send it back under the law. Well, I would find that under case, that Massachusetts case law and statutory law, the jury did not ask to be sent back, which would be a possibility if they had requested it to be sent back to them. But, under the statute in the case law, I don't feel a voice but to declare a trial. Over the defendant's objection, I'm going to declare a mistrial at this point. All right. All right. If we bring the jury in. And this is where the courtroom was really a gassed, Reddington, got an extension. I would ask that before you formally declare a mistrial that the court afford us the opportunity to take a tool of a three appeal direct to the Supreme Judiciary Court, single justice on this issue, because of any number of issues that are of concern, others that have been addressed in the motions, the objections, but I further raised the issue of the American with Disabilities Act. I believe that this is a situation where there is a clear and present danger that this individual, for some reason, what it is, we don't know, but is taking a position that's intractable, regardless of proof beyond a reason. So I want an opportunity to take an appeal to the single justice, if the court affordes that opportunity. How much time do you need to do that? I'd have it filed today and argue tomorrow. Saturday? They would do it on an emergency, yeah. I mean, I can try. So we're going to tell this jury to come back tomorrow? I'm just trying to -- the reason I'm asking it, I know, but as they're walking in, you're asking for this. I'm just trying to find out what it is that you're asking for. What are they asking for? That's all. >> What are they asking for? for this travesty. That's what I'm asking for. So you're asking for emergency stay at this point? Yes. And the jurors don't have to come back tomorrow and even have to come back if I lose the motion. But if I win the motion then obviously they would have to come back Tuesday. If you want to go up and petition to the S.G.C. for a stay, I'll give you an hour before we bring the jury back down. I think it's just a request for the stay of the Declaration of the District. So I'll hold off for an hour and then we'll come back in in regards to that. The next hour was a frenzy. There was a hearing with the Supreme Judicial Court, the S.G.C., where Reddington's team tried to get an emergency stay on the mistrial ruling. It seemed far fetched, but after everything else that had happened so far in the case, reporters were truly preparing to come back after the long weekend for arguments. But that didn't end up happening. All right. Council, it's my understanding that the S.G.C. issued there or that the emergency request for relief was denied and that the temporary stay is lifted. And so it would be my intention at this time to call the jurors back in and as I indicated to you before to declare a mistrial. Reddington tried again, thank he believes that there was a violation by the United States Constitution, but still a mistrial was finally declared. Members of the jury, at this point I'm going to declare that the jury is deadlocked and I'm going to declare a mistrial. All right. I just wanted to make a comment. And I'm kind of a history buff. And during World War II, Winston Churchill was the prime minister for England. When England pretty much stood against Nazi Germany alone. And so Churchill oftentimes had to talk to the citizens and say, "Let us brace for our duties." I always liked that phrase. And I thought of that phrase when all of you were agreeing to be honest jury. The agreed to brace for that duty. And each one of you knew how long the case was going to go. You knew how difficult the case was going to be to listen to facts wise, but still you brace for that duty. And I just kind of wanted to also let you know, I watched every day, day after day, week after week, all of you performing that duty that you're braced for. And I just kind of wanted to let you know, I understood how hard everybody worked in this case. I understood that you all gave everything you could and probably more than you thought you could. And so on behalf of myself, I just want to thank you so much that you should be proud for what you did. You brace for that duty. You perform that duty. And I just kind of wanted to thank you by half myself in behalf of the Commonwealth of Massachusetts. Thank you so much. And I will be honest, at this point the jurors looked crestfallen. They looked exhausted. They looked frustrated. This was after five and a half weeks of a trial, plus an extra week of deliberation. And there still was only one singular holdout that stopped the case from seeing a verdict. At the time of this recording, there's still no real answer. Plymouth County District Attorney Tim Cruz said Friday he wasn't sure if the case would have to trial again, so we'll have to wait and see. For now, we're preparing for the next hearing in this case set for late September. But there's one person who will be covering it for sure. It's today's guest. So let's throw that interview to get even more insight on what happened behind closed doors. All right, I walked you through my experience inside the courtroom, but I wasn't the only one. There were dozens of other reporters and media members who were in their two, one of which is joining us now. It's LA Magazine reporter and new friend of this show, Lauren Conlon. Lauren, thanks for coming on. It's so good to see you again. It's good to see you too. It was nice to bond during such a terrible trial. But I think that I have to just say you may be experience a lot better for me. Oh, thank you. I mean, that's that's part of the show that we're talking about today. The episode is that there were such horrific things that we had to hear in the courtroom and report on, but the camaraderie of the reporters and the media, we were there for each other throughout the whole time. And that's kind of what made this kind of extra special. That was actually going to be my first question is, how did you feel about this courtroom versus other ones that you've been in? Was there a vast difference? This felt different in terms of, again, the fact that we're dealing with such heavy stuff and the deaths of children. It was absolutely terrible. But I did feel like the reporters in the courtroom were really into helping each other. If there was a filing that we didn't have, or if I didn't hear something, people were very patient and they weren't, I guess, competitive if that's the right word. Nobody was trying to fight each other to get the story out first. We were all helping each other and that's definitely not something that I'm used to. Not that I've dealt with reporters that are not as nice, but it's always a competition. I just felt like this time it wasn't. It did feel a little bit different. And rightfully so, like I said, we're all hearing the same horrific testimony, the same horrific stuff here. So it was nice that we were all kind of there for each other. That's something that I really picked up on all of this too. You would text me and say, wait, is this right? Did you hear that? We would tell each other if one of us saw something or heard something that the others didn't. Like texting each other, filings, like what you said. It just something I never personally have experienced before. And I think we're almost bonded in a way because we were hearing all this stuff. And we saw something that the rest of the world didn't, which was the jury. And I have to ask you about this because everybody, all the comments are asking about the jurors. I mean, what did you make of the jury in general? Because we were only a couple yards away from them. Yes, I mean, I towards towards the end of the trial. And I, I was very tired. It's just a personal thing. I was driving a lot of the time from my parents house in New Hampshire. So I did feel like towards the end. I was hitting this wall. And I always wanted to make sure that I wasn't revealing too much about the jury. I wasn't revealing too much about their appearance. As to not, I mean, this is not the definition of doxing, but people online love to throw that out so much. You know, your doxing, your doxing. And I, I, I just felt like this jury had been through so much. I mean, so much. And what they had to hear, what they had to see. And so towards towards the end, they were tired. I, I noticed they were extremely tired. And you could tell, I mean, when the judge had to announce that it was a missed trial, they were frustrated. They, they definitely were a bit tense. And obviously we heard that it was 11 to 1. And you know, there was one holdout, holdout juror. I guess you could, you could say. And there are rumors that he's a young guy. We know that that he's male based on what's been said by Kevin Reddington. I believe what was said in the SGC zoom as well on Friday, September 4th. But I had envisioned a different male juror than the younger guy that everyone's talking about. But we don't actually know, we don't know who, who it was. But the one that I was picturing, I don't know if you remember this. There was a male that never took notes. So I kind of thought, yeah, it was him. But, but I don't, I mean, who knows? I did, I was surprised because I did feel like there were several jurors that were looking at the prosecution that cried a lot during the, the prosecution's closing. And I thought, again, this one woman was maybe could have been the whole town. I really, I really thought that was the case. However, I think that going back to the reasonable doubt charge and the reasonable doubt charge in the law, I think that is something that these jurors had to battle. And that was sort of what happened at the end where Kevin Reddington wasn't, you know, he wasn't, and maybe he didn't verbalize this very well on Friday, but he did verbalize it on his Good Morning America interview. And I had picked up on this. I don't think he, I mean, he was frustrated with the holdout, but I think he was more frustrated that this juror acknowledged that he felt there was some doubt in the prosecution's case on whether or not Lindsey Clancy was criminally responsible, but he just didn't, he didn't let that sway his, his vote here. And, and I mean, is that, I guess, reverse jury nullification? Like, I was thinking about that where it's like, he acknowledges there's doubt, but he's not going to apply it to his verdict. So it's, it's just interesting. I mean, it's, it's, um, there, it's a jury of your peers. And, and again, they did an incredible job, but I just, I did not want to be in their shoes at all. No, I mean, either. And I mean, it's so complicated, though, because these are just everyday people who aren't like us. I mean, they aren't reading filings or motions. They probably don't know that much about the law. So when you throw out things like criminal responsibility and reasonable doubt, they're like, wait, let me reread this like five times to make sense of it all. And so I can understand Kevin Reddington's frustration here, especially since it was 11 to 1. And this juror allegedly did express. out, but then wasn't applying it in the way that it's written. I mean, all of it is kind of confusing. And I kind of wanted to ask you about Kevin Reddington, too, because he's all over. I mean, TikTok, Instagram, Good Morning America, everywhere you go, it's Kevin Reddington. And we were there. I know that you asked him many questions. I know that you were part of the scrum. So can you kind of explain those to people they were pretty intense. What's so crazy about this is I actually did a post on Instagram the other day. Sorry, it sounds dumb that I'm even referring to that, but it just made me realize that I, me personally, and others, I was able to get somewhat close to him as far, I think it was like August 23rd or something like that. Just a few weeks ago, he would just park in the parking lot, walk out of his car, and maybe a couple of us would just go up to him and ask him a few questions. And I remember the first time I did that, he was kind of like, why are you following me with your phone, asking me this right now? And then slowly, and he answered, it wasn't this robust answer. It was kind of like a, you know, he's a sarcastic guy and he, he humored me. And then pretty soon after that, people caught on and they started chasing him with the cameras and the microphones. And then those of us with, with iPhones, we got buried. And the press drums at the end, I mean, there is one, it was like maybe a day or two before, I think it was, I don't remember exactly, but it was a day or two before they announced them as trial. That's where I got like shoved off of a stoop. It was just too much for me. I was like, oh my gosh. And, and it is, I mean, it's, it's savage. You have to scream your question, you have to really listen for the answer. And, he, Reddington was, he was very giving to the press, I should say. He, he was generous to us. The prosecution, as you know, they never speak out, they never give comments, especially during the course of a trial, or it's very rare if they do, obviously, if the end they do. But, yeah, Kevin was, was funny about a lot of his comments. And he even said something on Good Morning America where, you know, he was asked about some of the statements he made, like, oh, I crushed the prosecuting case. And he said, you know, that was, that was just bravado. I, I probably shouldn't have said it this way. And I think he probably does feel that way about some of his prior statements. But, you know, he made the choice to, to talk to us. And I mean, people really liked what he had to say, because, to your point, he was sarcastic. He was witty. He said things that you don't usually get from a defense attorney. But, at the same time, I don't know if our viewers can hear, my voice is literally, it's dead because I've been, you know, doing cough drops, everything after, because you do have to scream your questions over, I don't know, how many would you estimate were there? Like, in the final, at the end of the scrums, like, I don't know, like, 30, 40 people. That sounds right. And, and the big giant cameras. And then people from the public started coming over at the end. And, I mean, but, you know, we also, and, and you were there for this too, in the hallway, this was basically during the day during deliberations. And, and there was a jury note that one day about them wanting to see evidence about the knife and the medications. And we didn't know what that note said. For whatever reason, Judge Sullivan didn't announce it in open court, which was very frustrating and led to a lot of misinformation. But, in the hallway, when we asked Kevin Reddington, we said, you know, so the, the jury wanted to see what? And he's like, the Medicaid, they wanted to see the medications. And I think somebody said, oh, they, they wanted to just see them as evidence. And he said something like, no, they wanted to ingest them. Like, he would just make, like, silly comments like that. And obviously, I didn't include that in my reporting. But I'm kind of like, that was, that was kind of funny. He was just breaking the tension in a tense environment. Because I feel like at least me personally could feel it as the deliberations draw gone by the end. There were seven days of deliberation every day to me. It seemed to get more and more tense by that last day, that Friday. I think I remember talking to you in the hall. And I was like, I don't know what happened overnight from yesterday to today. But all of a sudden, there are so many more spectators in the hallway. People are elbowing and shoving. And the court officers are getting more angry. I mean, could you feel that too? Yes. The one court officer, that was so scary. He's never screamed at anyone before. He came out screaming. I was like, oh my gosh, what is happening? That was so shocking. I mean, it was getting hectic in the hallway. And for those, you know, that want like sort of a visual here, we would create a line for the press and a line for the public. And at that point, he had the public, like, go back like 50 feet in the hallway. Do you remember that? Like they had to go all the way back and he would like- Marked it with a comb. Yes, he was just like, get out of my face. I can't do this anymore. And yeah, it was, it was, it was time. I mean, I'm just thinking about this because I put together just some cases that had, you know, very long deliberations. And I'm thinking about the Menendez brothers, the first trial. It was over 100 days of deliberations for Eric and Lyle. And I'm just like, how, how did we, how did they do that? I don't even know how they would do that. I, yeah, it was just so much crazy. Yeah, crazy. So the fact that we had seven days and it was that tense. I'm kind of like, right, I think it ended when it should have. Exactly. Because the tensions were getting so high, everything was getting heated. And I guess I have to ask you to about Lindsay, because she was there throughout all of it. I mean, people have had a camera on her for weeks at this point, kind of inspecting her, but you saw her in the flash. You saw her family. Do you have any observations about what was going on there? I mean, Lindsay, from what I saw, and, and I, I actually think that people watching the, the stream had a better view than I did of Lindsay, just because I saw her profile a lot. I saw the back of her head a lot. And at this point in the trial, she, she wasn't as emotional, I think, as she was during other points of it, where, where I was not present inside the courtroom. But, you know, with, with that being said, there is something eerie about being in a room with someone where you know, admittedly, they have done something as horrific as, as strangling their children. Mental illness or not. That is not me saying that she wasn't mentally ill at all. I'm not saying that. I'm just saying my personal feelings. It's, it's, it's eerie. And it's chilling. And, but, but on the other hand, you don't get this, you don't get this overwhelming feeling of, of evil from Lindsay just sitting there in her wheelchair, if that makes sense. Again, these, these crimes are, are beyond horrific, but it's not, it's, it's not the same, I guess, feeling or sensation you would get with like a, a serial killer or like a Jeffrey Dahmer, although, again, it, this is, you know, it's, it's horrific. I also noticed this, and I don't know if this would have made a difference at all, but you, you had Lindsay and you had her family sitting behind her, sitting behind the defense table. Sometimes we would see father Bob, you know, we would see people supporting her. For the prosecution who, who had said, you know, they are doing this for the children, they are doing this for justice for, uh, Korra, Dawson, and Callan, it was a little odd, I think, at times to not see anyone behind them. Um, and, and again, I, it's a complicated, uh, I don't honestly know how to verbalize it because obviously, you know, Lindsay's parents are clearly, uh, there for their grandchildren as well. Patrick's mother was a witness when she testified. I'm not sure if she was maybe not allowed to be in the courtroom. And, and same with Patrick. I've heard multiple things, like Patrick, after he testified, he was allowed in. And then I heard that he, he wasn't. So I don't know, I don't know the real story behind that or the details, but that was something that I, I kind of thought about. Like, would the jury have felt differently if there was someone behind the prosecution crying or, or expressing emotion, um, on behalf of the children besides Lindsay, because Lindsay was sobbing over her children a lot. Um, so yeah, just things that I kind of thought about after the fact. Actually, I included that in my story because my photographer told me, you know, I was in the first row, then there was that empty row. And then the row after that was media. I kind of laid this out for our viewers and that empty row I was told was reserved for Patrick or anyone on his side of the family if they wanted to come. And Patrick was in the courtroom obviously when he testified, but then he never came back. And jurors can clock that too to your point. Right. Right. So again, so he was allowed back. And he didn't, and look, I don't, I'm not throwing any, any weight to that or not, um, when it comes to him because who, I don't know, who knows how one would act after, you know, experiencing the most devastating thing that one could ever experience. Um, I might not want to be in the courtroom to hear all those details. Or maybe I would because I want justice. I don't know. I have no idea. And I say justice because it's like, I don't, I also don't know what justice really looks like to Patrick Clancy. He has said, um, that we should all forgive Lindsay as he did. He also said that a second trial would be pretty much devastating to him. I'm paraphrasing, but That's all really interesting to me and you make a great point, like would the jury have felt differently if they saw Patrick crying behind the prosecution? That's a great point. And is this something that we're going to see again? We don't know at the time of this recording, we don't know are we going to see another trial? What's ahead with the DA? I mean, who's to say what is going to come? I know that September 29 is the next hearing that we're going to be covering and I'm sure we'll see you there, Lauren. I don't know. It's an interesting case to kind of wrap it up and talk about it as it's still kind of ongoing, but I appreciate you coming on Scandal and giving us your insight into what you saw. Thanks for having me. I hope I see you soon, Sierra. And that's where today's episode of Scandal leaves us for now. If you like what you saw and you want to see more, or connect with me on social media, you can find me on places like Instagram @SierraGalessney. Thanks for watching today's episode of Scandal. As always, I'm your host SierraGalessney, and I'll see you next time.