Sheep Shape with Chad Hall

Welcome to Talk Is Sheep, the official podcast of the Wild Sheep Society of British Columbia. Brought to you by our title sponsor Mountain Tuck Fitness Lab. Come along with us as we take conversations that matter to you into the high help line. We have partnered with Mountain Tuck Fitness Lab to help get you in shaping mentally strong. Whether you're a veteran hunter just starting out, the Mountain Tuck app will take you to the next level. We personally train using the Mountain Tuck programs and we believe in so much that we want to give you six weeks for free using code Sheep BC. That's S-H-E-E-P-B-C. Check out Mountain Tuck Fitness Lab. You won't be disappointed. This episode is sponsored by our conservation partner Yedi. Thank you Sikka Gear and Yedi for investing in healthy wildlife and sustainable ecosystems. Well good afternoon. I guess slash evening for you out there on the East Coast Chad and welcome to the Talk Is Sheep podcast. Great to see you. Yeah, thanks for having me. So we've been trying to put this together for a little bit here and you came up with a couple excuses, which I thought were pretty legitimate. There's some pretty serious storms on the East Coast there and you been hit with two hurricanes back to back. So yeah, everything went okay. Everything all right in your neck of the woods. How how do you guys fare through all that? Yeah, unfortunately these two golf storms I live ocean front in the golf. So we did take quite a few bit of damages and the storms the community in general is recovering right now still. We two back-to-back in two weeks is unprecedented and you left a lot of people you know without homes and you're really just trying to rebuild. So you know, the dust is settled a bit now and it's just more you know clean up efforts and trying to restore as much normal sea as possible but fortunately everybody's safe and you know would just take it one day at time. I don't like sheep hunting. One step at a time. Well said well I'm glad to hear everyone's okay and that you guys did survive it and it was interesting. We literally had this one scheduled the day the first one hit and you are no showing rightfully so and you know right away we're like we know what's going on these coast so you didn't and then you reached out a couple days late we just late left you alone and you reach out and said hey guys so sorry let's try and reschedule but shoot there's another one right behind it here so yeah thanks for making this a priority I'm glad to hear you're safe. Now from a perspective year over year would you say this is one of the worst areas you guys have seen or is it just kind of part of the course for the golf? I don't know it's just the last few years it seems like we've just been having more activity than normal we've had about five stormers and 15 months that we've had some level of impact here so yeah I mean I've been here for 10 years now and it's definitely been more active than normal that I would like to see but I guess that's what you sign up for if you live anywhere on the coast and Florida you may be signing up for her cane in your future so you just got to go and do it eyes wide open I suppose and and I'd have a plan. Yeah like you said it's like sheep hunting right? Yeah yeah roll with the punches yeah I like it well I like it yeah and it served you well for sure so Chad there's a lot of stuff we're gonna jump into today and obviously one of the big ones that's happened recently is you finished up your finnows and your slam there and in the face of adversity and it's been a multi-year and multi-trip journey for you so we want to talk a little bit about that but before we kind of dive into to that let's just talk a little bit about who Chad Hall is and kind of your early days and what got you into hunting and more specifically I guess mountain hunting the adventure side of things yeah you know I grew up in Michigan since fairly flatland you know we didn't I didn't grow up with the type of outdoor activities that would meet me think about going sheep hunting you know you start with small game and then at that time now there's a lot better youth programs stuff but we couldn't start you know archery hunting two or twelve so you know you kind of worked up to hunter safety to see you could do your your first deer hunt at twelve and that's when it kind of started from there it you know hunting was was a big thing growing up you know a lot of the kids did it I didn't live in the true country like in the farming areas of the country but I lived far enough outreach of the city there that we did you know quite have quite a bit of outdoor availability of things to do growing up and so you know we started out with the with with archery hunting and that blossomed into doing some raffle hunting and things like that and you know I was pretty diehard like I loved it I would do it every weekend during season so it wasn't like something I would periodically do and that passion just kind of kept growing and building over the years and you know my family hunted but they weren't none of them had really done any big big game hunting on the other side of deer hunting stuff local and I got involved in Safari Club and things like that you know which actually a lot of that came through you know me going through cancer which we'll probably talk about and my big game started small you know Michigan you're close to Canada so you know we would go you know black bear hunting when you get a tag in Michigan or we go to the Canada and at black bear hunt we'd go up and hunt caribou and go back and that kind of really started the the passion for some of the other big game and then in college I did a little bit of alcanine on Colorado and really just started getting the itch to do some bigger things and you know I think if anybody who doesn't have a family that's done some of that bigger stuff you got to start making a little bit of money before you could go on the more extravagant hunts and as I you know got through college and building my professional career and had the available funds I started going on more exotic stuff and and starting to travel around the world a little bit more to go on some of these these dream hunts and I've been fortunate to do that but cheap hunting was one that I would say was definitely one of the sparks to get me into doing a lot more worldly travel for big game is that's about as adventurous as it comes right and I think you start to really broaden your imagination after you've been on a few sheep hunts and it starts to kind of take it yeah all over the place so there's this growing up in Michigan and just sort of you know it you know white tail hunting and and sort of you know flatland hunting and obviously great bird hunting all that kind of stuff and then was it was it that trip to Colorado that got you when you on that first alcanine or was it was it sort of when you started doing you know kind of getting outside your comfort zone and so was it was it like the experience of being in the mountains that first time that kind of said oh I want to do more of this or was it just when you kind of got went beyond the borders maybe came into Canada it's a black bear hunting or just is it was it the adventure itself or was it the mountains that we're calling her with I guess a combination there of both yeah I think it's a combination of all of it but I mean you know I guess I never really thought about but as you as you see that you know definitely the being in the mountain living out of a backpack like the whole adventure survival aspect that's more than just going and staying in a camp has a lot of appeal for me so I really like that aspect of it because it's it's just it's the hunts more than you know I think when you're staying a lot you know that stuff's great but the hunt is different and that that aspect of planning and living in that environment and is it adds to it to me like I think I have as much fun prepping for these hunts as I do going on them and getting ready so yeah I think that you know some of those early mountains hunts definitely had an influence on that but as I started really kind of getting the bug for bigger game hunting in general I kind of just started like I want to go on everything I want to go on every experience in every kind of hunt possible and and so I really just try to build that into my life and you know go on as many trips as I could throughout the years one thing I would then lastly touch on here is you talked about the adventure aspect of it you talked about these exotic hunts and doing stuff overseas and international hunting and you know there's the African experience and there's like the dangerous game aspect right so grizzly bear hunting black brown bear but then also going to Africa and hunting you know dangerous game over there is that a big draw for you again it's about I guess it's more so about the adventure and and the experience not necessarily because I want to talk about pushing yourself too and I know that you're yeah you got lots of experience in that round but I just kind of want to get your frame of mind around why you're out pursuing and what's drawing you out there yeah I mean I've done all the big game hunting in Africa that you know all the dangerous game and yeah there's something about not knowing and not me I'm looking to control what's going on is part of the adventure it's like it's just you don't when I said roll with the punches it literally is you just it's unpredictable right and you know being able to just prepare yourself for those trips and part of the adventure is the fact that you lose control you know when people are so focused on planning and that everything goes the way that they expect it that's great and all but there's some part of the adventure that wouldn't be the adventure if it didn't turn out didn't turn out the way that you wanted it to right and being able to adapt and and and and really you know embrace that and conquer it and and make and make the best out of it you know I think that that goes into a lot of what you will probably talk about about my past and the struggles that I've been through it's like if you don't embrace the struggles and I think you guys always say this in the guides say like the type to suck like if you can't find somehow joy in those struggles then some of the stuff's just not for you right and I think a lot of people in life that have or self-made that have found success in anything have had to learn how to embrace that suck in order to be successful it just a way it is and when your program that way and when your mind works that way like you're just you just want to sign up for tough things you just I don't know what it is I think that's that screw they get loose coming to sheep hunters like the reason I booked my first sheep hunt to give myself the toughest possible challenge I could give in the circumstance I was in when I was you know having my leg operated on for the second time from bone cancer it's like who and doctor was worried about me walking not going on a sheep hunt so you know here I am like motivation I want to book you've never been on a sheep hunt I've heard it's a toughest hunt you can go on I'm on a book that that's my motivation to go through therapy and that's how my sheep hunting came to be was my first sheep hunt was that exactly you know I was on my you know just for a quick rewind we have to go all the way back but you know it's diagnosed with bone cancer when I was 19 I did had my femur my knee my tibia replaced due to the cancer a couple years of chemotherapy and and I successfully beat beat cancer well you know when you put prosthesis inside your body then it necessarily lasts forever and this was you know now 25 years ago right 45 now you know turn 20 when that happened and you know the experimental type surgeries you know they the way they went normally the surgery just take your leg off and you know I signed up for that particular surgery and made it through it and was a was very fortunate and you know you fast forward from that point 10 years later and I had to have the surgery done again you know talk about you know had your life disrupted for such a period of time to go back down in the dumps and get dealt of you know hey we're going to do surgery again cancer didn't come back but just you know happened to have be physically impaired again and so that's when I decided look I'm going to book sheep on so instead of sitting there whining and crying about it I'm like let me go get myself a even tougher thing to deal with right so not only am I going to rehab myself I'm going to rehab myself for the ability where I can go live in the mountains and carry a backpack at what a sheep on it and you know that's what I did and so what ended up happening is I booked that you know I'm telling one of my close friends about it my name is Jason Brown and he's in the outdoor film business and you know I didn't work with him in film and a lot of stuff we we just something you did for fun when you're growing up and when you know video cameras and all that became popular video tape your dear hunt or your whatever hunts and so I was very familiar with in doing filming and things like that but not for any sort of production and so he was like let's document this like it's just a real cool story you're going to go through rehab you're gonna train for the sheep on he's like I loved it like film it and go on the sheep hunt with you and so you just have a document you know it's something you can have for rest your life and then he just happens to be meeting with you know the outdoor network says some of the shows and he's telling them about me and telling them about what we're gonna go do and you know they're interested they're interested like like make a TV love to make a TV show out of this and so at that time it was a sportsman's channel was like we want to meet Chad and so I went and met with them and they're like we love the story we'd love for you to make a TV show about this journey and I was like wow okay I was never really thinking about that that's awesome and you know I'm interested in it and the challenge with it was hey they want you to film 13 episodes it's like how might I make 13 episodes on one sheep hunt it seems like a pretty lofty stretch out of one hunt in a big time commitment right you know I have a career in a business to run and things like that and like you know I'm not going to go on 13 sheep hunts even though I'd be awesome like that's just possible yeah not not let alone financially possible with the what TV dollars look like and so we we left that whole brainstorming session on this idea that I would find three other people going through some struggles in their life and that we would all go on these different hunts and trained together and film these different stories and so I was able to go and actually hand select some different individuals to go on that journey with me and that's how where sheepshake the TV show was born was was built on that basis you know four diverse stories all overcoming some obstacle in their life whether it was life threatening or disability and to do it together tell a story and it was cool it was a really cool experience let's just touch a little bit about the the journey on the cancer side of things so you first experience it we're 2019 so at that point did they come to you and say hey okay we're gonna have to you know this is very serious we're gonna have to remove your leg and all this stuff or or did they give you the option right away did you know right away that there was a possibility for a prosthesis and that you could go through this process and maybe maybe not lose your leg in it yeah I mean look they never know until they go in and do the surgery you know they when they when they go in and remove they biopsy it first and then you know they kind of tell you that cancer and then you got your options and you know for me I knew going into the major surgery that they were going to put a prosthesis in I was fortunate that I was done growing had I not been if I had had I been younger they would have taken the leg off because at that time they didn't really have a way for your leg to lengthen without doing multiple surgeries and so any of the younger kids that were in they had the same type of cancer that were in the cancer center at that time they had lost their legs so you know so that was kind of a bummer you know and but I was fortunate to to to qualify for having the replacement surgery done now with you I'm curious to try and understand this psyche that built who Chad Hall is is this something that you know you've always been a fighter you've always been up for challenges you entire life or did cancer make you who you are today and become this conquer of all these incredible challenges and and rising to the occasion talk about your psyche pre-cancer and your mentality and your approach to life as opposed to going through cancer and the challenges and overcoming all the challenges there I mean to some degree I believe that you're genetically programmed that way and you know I maybe maybe you can build yourself to be that way and maybe or maybe you just possess it and you build up on it but I don't I don't recollect such a tough situations prior to that that molded that I think it was a once you get put into this life or death situation are you going to is it fight or flight and you know are you gonna hide under the covers or are you gonna you know take it one day at a time like a marathon and just keep work and I you know I just think you it's just something that you possess deep down or you don't and but I do think that once you're put in that situation and you learn two overcome those things and and that you were able to do it it definitely changes your mindset of well what you can accomplish moving forward so I think that having gone through that in the way that I was able to mentally deal with that knowing that the mental piece was 98% of the bat was it get it get up every day and know that you're gonna fight and you're not gonna give up it it programs you to be successful in so many different aspects of your life not just going on a sheep hunt you know kind of funny like I I've done the most extreme training possible for sheep hunts to not training hardly at all and still being able to push through that hunt and be enjoyable because of the mindset you know so I mean it just tells you how much your body can do when you can actually put your mind to it now I wouldn't recommend that you don't train at all to go on a sheep hunt but keep yourself in relatively kind of good shape you know I just didn't need to go over the top with the training like when I went on my first sheep and I hired a personal trainer and trained for nine months I mean you know it was it was it was insane amount of training that was unnecessary like this last one I went on I didn't train like that at all I literally work more on core and stretching not doing the crazy miles or anything like that and I had no issues on the trip whatsoever and it zero zero cardio before the trip so yeah and I live in flat land right so it's just that aspect mentally and the years of doing it I think you just build up on each one well and you know we're talking about sheep shape here at the show but on the the subject of sheep sheep shape I think there's an element to as we mature as we get a little bit older like when you're young you know you want to be fit you want to be in great shape but as you get older like you can wear out and you get injured too right my my buddy got messed up last year and you know he was over training in some cases right so there's I think there's an element when you get a little bit older your body can only take so much and you got to be a little bit strategic about but like you said focusing on you know being like good stretching and like being really limber and being flexible and being able to move as opposed to the cardio right because again sheep hunting is very rarely about the foot it's not a foot race generally like I guess there's exceptions but it's not you don't have to race there you just need to get there eventually right and get there you know in a safe and controlled fashion so yeah I agree you know 100% it's uh I I think as you get older in general that core strength and flexibility is more important in aging and as I've had injuries over the years some of which have happened on the trips you know aggravating aggravating certain things where you're want to focus on different aspects of how you train you know so experiment with a lot of different types of training to go on these trips and yeah it I guess it just adapted as your body changes and as you know yeah no for sure so Chad I want to talk a little bit about your first experience so at 20 at 19 years old going through the surgery at 20 did you have colleagues there that were going through the same thing that you were was there anyone did you have a support network of individuals that were going through cancer as well and treatment or was it solely on your own you doing your own thing like in the rehab aspect or was it just you kind of there on your own with your doctors and your support team going through the surgery and everything yeah I mean my mindset was so focused on being that that I wasn't very focused on building relationships in the hospital you know one of the things that's really tough when you're in those cancer centers is I mean some people aren't going to make it and you know I don't me trying to get yourself to attach to the other patients that are there can leave you a lot of heartbreak you know because just a lot of them won't make it and I'd see that happen with my family you know my family was my support center right my mom my dad my brothers and they would be in the hospital so much with me they'd start to build relationships with the other families right and then they'd be you know they would be affected by that they these other families would lose their child or whatever and you know it was a big it was a big thing to overcome just adds more to the mountain that you're you know you're trying to emotionally overcome so for me I never let myself get attached emotionally to anyone in the hospital like that was a big thing for me like stay focused on the prize the prize for me is a make it through this we'll get emotionally attached to you know others that don't have a very good outcome within the within that that that that and most of the time we're isolated anyway so it wasn't like it was really easy to do that the the bone cancer treatments were pretty intense from a chemo therapy standpoint so I was always in a private isolated room I wasn't in another room ever within any other patients and then after you did your four or five days of chemo they'd send you home and typically you end up back in the hospital a couple days later because your your blood counts would get too low and you'd be what they call an intrappinic you'd end up back in in the hospital to be monitored so and it was like that for most part to almost two years fairly isolated in nature of what your interaction was with anybody else you know you're just concerned about anything you mean you had a hard enough time fighting out the own bacteria in your body let alone trying to to be around other people that could bring some sort of illness to you so it was a fairly isolated struggle all their you know journey other than your close you know media family so that I mean that was more of my I would say that my family was with my support system right right so so Chad you you talk about so 20 you go through the surgery well how long a process did that take were you taking was it take you three years to sort of get back to where you're on your feet and you're like able to go and live life again how long that how long was that process um you know I never really I did whatever I could during those couple years to try to be able to to still enjoy the outdoors where I could you know the doctors the doctors tell you one thing I you know I kind of looked at it said look I don't know if I'm living to the Marlotte I can get out in the woods and go to your honey and I'm going to your I don't I don't really care so the first I would say let's call it pre surgery the first six months we're very challenging to where I couldn't do anything I was too weak I couldn't need you know you lost a lot of weight it like the ability to go do those things wasn't just wasn't there and they really didn't want me physically doing a lot until they could you know take the cancer out of the bones post surgery I had a you know a lot rehab just to kind of get back on my leg and walking and whatnot but once I was able to start doing that it kind of just built up strength you know day by day and you know post surgery the first hunting season that came around I you know I when I was an entreatment I did definitely was going out to my deer stand I mean if I was too weak I'd have my my mom drive me out on a four-wheeler to the tree you know like whenever it took just so I could get up there and then literally the first time that I had an opportunity at they get a shot at a bucket couldn't pull my bow back I was too weak and it wasn't buck fear it was just I couldn't I didn't have the strength well and and eventually I was able to build up enough strength you know to do it and for and and fortunately harvest a few bucks during the time I was going through cancer and I will forget this for the rest of my life with that first buck that I shot while it was going through chemo treatment I shot that buck and I had gotten driven out to stand in the four-wheeler but I was so excited that I walked back you know to our camp and and a half way through I threw up you know because I just like physically that was too much for me but I still was gonna do it you know to get back and tell everybody I was a big deal and I think they just you just start building momentum and as you start to see light at the end of the tunnel you just get through it and so you know didn't do a lot of other things during that time a lot again a lot of it was isolated you know being in the outdoors wasn't around people so you know if I if I yeah I wasn't gonna catch any illness remember and so that was kind of my you know all I thought about when I sat in the hospital is reading the outdoor magazines watching outdoor videos like all I could do to get back out there and that was that was the thing that that that helped push me to keep going every day that's awesome so you spent the next kind of 20 years getting after it building your career hunting you know live and live and then was it in your forties when you started to have an issues with your I guess post-surgery issues and some of the prosthetics not performing the way should is that when things started to change again for you or how did that work? No you know there there was always a post-surgery there was always gonna be a disability right they they did detach my calf they cut half my quad out you know I would never have the range of motion flexibility and strength in that leg that I once had so for better sense purposes I mean the doctors consider that leg handicapped because of its limitations and but I wasn't gonna let that stop me you know I couldn't go play hockey anymore I can go you know run a marathon you know I can't fully kneel on it but one thing I can do is I can do one step at a time right and that that that I am able to do and so you know sheep hunting the game on a step it's not a it's not a a game of athleticism it is to some degree but it isn't you know I'm not leaping across for ox so you know it was it's something that I was able to do so yeah you have your challenges is that as you age and you're on a prosthetic and that's why I had to have that that second surgery done to replace the parts and to do some scar tissue clean up and you know my kneecafers deform then they had to fix that and you know it took a little bit time to recoup from that not as not as long as the first one you know the first one was major trauma the second one I didn't have to do any major tissue surgery it was more mechanical than anything and so I was able to bounce back from that a lot quicker than the first surgery and keep on doing what I was doing right and you know surprisingly I haven't had any major issues with my knee or leg while on one of these hunts because I'm always very careful now if I took a big impact to it I could certainly have a major issue so I'm very methodical about how I approached a mountain and really take my time so I'm not being sloppy you know I don't want to slip and overextend or you know like my ligaments and tens are stapled the teflon they're not going to react like yours or somebody else with a normal leg that hasn't had that sort of injury so you know I always tell my guys before I go on these trips I said listen I'm not going at your speed and I'm not going to go at your speed not because I'm not capable because I don't want to get hurt and you know this is my hunt and we're gonna we're gonna go out of pace it makes it enjoyable for me and that doesn't put me at risk so and that just overall I think just sets the tone for more enjoyable trip and that you're on the same page and you know that that's worked well for me so you know slow and steady is the way I do it and it works well you know and I think that's also why you don't necessarily you know have to be in some crazy incredible shape to do these trips you just have to be at the mindset to be uncomfortable when you're uncomfortable to push through some of it and you know if you if you're going slow at it and you take your breaks yeah it's it's it's it really at the end of the day isn't that tough it really isn't you know and it just uh you know when I say embrace the suck I mean you know for for a lot of it it isn't bracing the suck up physical pain I think it's really embracing the suck of things not going the way that you thought they were gonna go and that you know no matter how good your guy and how good it outfit is or even if you do it yourself and the self guided deal it's just not gonna be the way that you dreamed it up in your head so yeah you know there's going to be unfortunate circumstances that happen and I've had them happen from you know cutting yourself to getting bucked off forces to you know whatever like just shit happens you know breaking guns what I mean it just that's the kind of stuff that happens and then you just have to deal with it you have to you know how to be it adaptable you know that like weather conditions you know I've been I've been snowed in the tent I got to leave hunch because of it of it you know it's just you just don't know what what you're gonna deal with yeah you talk about things breaking I was just telling my wife my Dolcey Ponte I was literally boarding the airplane to get and when I say airplane it was a small small single engine airplane to fly into the the strip and uh I'm glassing and looking at the mountains before we jump in and my binos failed one of the lenses like dropped it just went black so I was like when I'm inocular on the on the mountain with these binos I was like absolutely useless so luckily my buddy had a pair and we were fine but uh yeah yeah well said for sure so yeah now Chad let's talk about um you you said you were going undergoing surgery again to get some rehab work done and you're like okay I'm gonna I'm gonna do the hardest hunt that I can find in in your mind at the time I'm gonna book a sheep hunt so let's talk about that journey and I know you just achieved your phenomenal and your slam here this year um talk a little bit about sort of the steps and that and was it always a goal to do the to do your slammer was it sort of that did you kind of like no okay now I'm gonna go for this and then and then eventually you just ended up there so talk about that journey force yeah I mean I think the first sheep hunt the bug gets you want to do the slam now I would tell you that before I even finished my first sheep hunt that that just kind of became more of a goal around you know the beat that's what I wanted to do with television program and what not was to do the slam and to be able to hunt all four species I think you you'll learn it once you start doing it that it isn't that easy and then when you throw in the dynamic of trying to produce a television show um you're trying to get content that can kind of change the let's call the order of what you do things um and and how long it's gonna take to do it so um you know when I start when I first started out was doll sheep hunt you know you think everybody typically starts with a doll sheep for the first sheep hunt and um you know I did that first time in northwest territories with uh uh in the handy beat at the time with the landcasters um and you know I had a real enjoyable hunt um you know that one with that one you with the helicopter you have a makes it a little bit easier not as much time packing as you would on on traditional ask in front which I would later do um to get the full dynamic of the two different sheep hunts so did my first doll sheep hunt in and WT um then the next year I went to um elbert um big horn um and wasn't successful on that we went three weeks trying to find a legal ram and you know just beat yourself up on the horses for three weeks you know and and we gave it all we could get but we just couldn't finally go ram um and then the third year that I went we did stone sheep in BC and I that and I got snowed into our tent and blew all the sheep blew off the mountain we ate a little later September hunt you know rode in 60 degrees next day two three feet of snow never stopped snowing and that was the story of the rest of the hunt was basically a bust um so you know quickly as finding out they're at my first three sheep hunts going one for three and it wasn't because I messed up it was just because of mother nature um and uh so you you under at that point I'm understanding I'm going to have to go on a lot of these hunts to to uh to get to this slam right so then it really became on the tv show became about content you can't go on a bunch of unsuccessful hunts like we were trying to tell a good story about the journey and the training and whatnot but people do want to see harvest on the tv show so you know we started trying to go on more high probability hunts and obviously big horn and stone sheep are not high probability so we ended up going on some more doll sheep hunts so I actually ended up doing two more doll sheep hunts um another one an nwt and then at a backpack hunt in um in Alaska and I was successful on both of those and then I made it to Mexico on big horn um and and that's not I mean that's a high probability hunts so I got a desert big horn on my first try down to snora that's not an incredible incredible get spit out that's not an incredibly physical hunt that one so you would knock that one out and then it was really you know stone sheep and uh and big horn um and so I was a fortunate to get tagged uh for for big horn and bc um and I and I went up with elk valley bay horn and uh was able to to to get a big horn on that trip and shot out just a monster you know it was a 42 plus and shot on the curl unbroomed I mean it was just unbelievable um and uh a big boon of cracket uh you know not anything I was expecting you know I'm just trying to get a respective animal and we ended up getting a absolute giant um and so that then just left the stone sheep hunt and so at that point I think I'm I've been on seven sheep hunts uh and I'd gotten five sheep so the two the two early ones that I we just didn't have an opportunity and so I would bc stone sheep hunt I'm going for my second time and um I go up at Luke Vince that's who I ended up getting my slam ram with um and uh you know this one ends up being an operator air you know after eight days in the trip we finally find a legal ram and you know perfect broadside standard not moving 400 yard shot it been sit down for two hours and uh I shoot and we don't even see where the bullet went shoot again I don't even see where the bullet went and it was just like total devastation you know the the we don't know what happened and my shooting I'm a you know I practice a really good long range shooter and uh you know we just couldn't figure it out and I shot three days earlier I shot I missed it six hundred yards like three and I had a six five with me you know three shots in the in the heart at six hundred yards you knock that baby down and we're like we don't know how how I miss this sheep at 400 yards and uh so we moped around back to camp and we actually pulled camp uh at that point because it was the weather was kind of bad it went down a hunt off the river and we shot the gun down there at camp and it was six inches high at a hundred yards and we're like how how does this even possible and I didn't figure this out until we got back home but the bolt and the forearm on my gun came loose and so the it changed the compression on the flow to that barrel so it basically released it the it full up so it basically you know you lose your zero up and I couldn't believe it I was so pissed now every one of my bolts and my uh that fastened the stock to the to the gun I locked tight the shit out of them because I'm like how does this how does this happen and now I'm super paranoid I've got an allen wrench I check them like twice a day to make sure those bolts and the forearm don't lose um and you know just missed the thing because of it and uh but I wasn't letting that happen so I went redemption um I waited two years between trips where I could get back up to hunt with Luke again and um and we were able to get it done this time so um I think it was day we have we had a weather delays and issues getting in but I think we we killed that ram on on the fifth day a honey in like the seventh or seventh day of the trip and uh no no problems found embedded and and and a windy spy it was kind of funny in this ram because we watched two big big ram's wanted a better look at the daily four go over the top of the mountain across from us and so we went around that next day when we rode like I don't know four hours in and hiked up uh to a good vantage point we couldn't find any sheep so we're like we know there's something up there there's just hike up there and there's wind blowing like 30 miles an hour up there so we just keep walking and uh Luke didn't even see the ram he because he was stuck in this ditch and as soon as we were to walk and he jumps up out of the ditch he's like 20 yards from Luke and he runs up I'm like y'all Luke he's right there and we jump we jump down um and it ended up being a completely different ram and the ones we were looking for before was just a lone ram um and you went and he just he wasn't spooked by us I don't know if you've ever seen a human before you just went up about a hundred yards and laid down you know and it got got us a chance to go to the tripod and make sure it was legal and uh it was legal so uh we sat at him for a while and just you know we had to whistle and make some noise to get him to stand up because it was so windy finally didn't we and just angered him right there so I'm like 200 yards so it was pretty close pretty close shot and that was that was the that was the slam ram so it was nine years in the making I guess wow so was that eight eight sheep hunts and uh no nine nine sheep hunts and six were successful which was on the stone uh or three stone sheep hunts and two big horned hunts to get the stone and a big horn but uh but nonetheless that's part of the process right now it was it was awesome though so when you think back and you think of all that you've been through you you think about the journey that you had the cancer when you were in your teens and then you you know you had your surgery or rehab surgery and then you had all these hunts um what what sort of sticks out in your mind like what is there a specific hunt that sticks out is does the cancer stick out does the show stick out what when you think about what you've gone through and your experience through all this what sort of is front of mind for you yeah I mean there's so many high there's so many highlights uh to all of it and uh and not just I mean when I say highlights maybe just memorable moments because sometimes the lowest at the lowest time you know the lowest point um and some of the worst times are some of the highlights right those are the the the areas where you saw that you had to dig deep and uh and and and really power through it and uh I think that some sick reason that's what keeps you coming back is like the the fact that you you you're able to do that and and you don't I don't think every time when you're adding up every sheep hunter or anybody does these tough hunts gets into situations where like I can't believe I paid to do this you know like this this is miserable and but then you're so quick to do it again and uh and and and I think that there's very few like for me it is a professional that that that's just so distracted and moving so fast all the time that my time in the mountain is precious and it's like the only time that I have that I can truly disconnect and that everything that's going on your senses your awareness how focused you have to be the the struggles that you're going through on the mountain nothing else can matter you can't that stuff has to just you know you have to leave that back at the flow playing hanger or the or wherever you want to leave it you got to leave it somewhere and that baggage doesn't matter on the mountain and it's just you in the mountain you know and that's because when I had created a TV show I made that slogan fear no mountain and you know that was really the mindset of of just the general attitude that I felt he had to possess is that I couldn't be afraid of any you know any obstacle no matter how big it was and and and the mountain gives that to you you know it it gives you a challenge that it doesn't matter who you are um you've got to learn how to adapt and overcome it and I think that's just been for me over these last this last decade of getting in the sheep hunting and and coming and and overcoming the obstacles from cancer it it really just kind of become the way I lived and everything that I do and uh they'll sweat the little shit you know just don't and it doesn't matter you know stay focused and and and and take one step by the time man and you get through it so obviously very goal oriented yourself as an individual you beat cancer you've persevered with these challenges with the disability you've gone nine years to achieve your finnas you've done all these things um is it is this something that you you push yourself all the time is it just who you are as an individual just trying to get a a frame a reference of of or is it just you know that one that mentality one foot in front of the other just go out and do it and you're going to get there I guess what I'm saying is you obviously set a goal to get your finnas at one point you said okay go on the sheep hunt and then eventually turn into the show and then eventually the finnas but was that always in the back of your mind or was it sort of an evolution of just because you talk lots about one foot in front of the other right you talk lots about that but then you also talk about um about you know having these goals creating you know creating a vision of what you want to achieve yeah I mean I guess the best analogy to really kind of put it in perspective is you know if you're uh if you're goal oriented task oriented it's like to be successful even in these these mountain adventures you you have to have some a some level being able to break things down in detail and having some plan of action you know you're going to have curve curve balls but if you stay to your plan and you know you you're going to be able to continue and you stay focused on you're going to continue to move in that direction um you know so you know I'm a checklist detail guy you know and I attack that from you know my personal aspects of my life to business aspects of my life and that is you know layout the objective in the plan and break it down into smaller pieces and then attack it one thing at a time and you know each win builds momentum so and and and and I believe that in anything that I do when my hunting journeys to personal and businesses you know if you focus on the little wins to get you to the big wins you know and that little wins build momentum they get the big and it's not about wins so much but I personal wins you know wins over struggles wins over obstacles you know it's uh that just keeps you headed in the right direction and uh that's just the attitude that I've taken yeah listen you're gonna be down in a dump sometimes in life on hunts on whatever because you get dealt some punches that you just didn't like um but you gotta be able to figure out how to take them and and how to you know how to get get back up and just keep going you know so life gives you those punches it's just the way it works you know those that are happy in life or those who are successful in life figure out a deal with that uh right on so okay so if you're to sort of impart your knowledge and words of wisdom on those that are coming in behind in your footsteps uh whether be your bananas or just that you know maybe your first sheep hunt or maybe it's a guy that our gal that's just found out that they're dealing with a pretty serious cancer or what cancer period let alone the serious one is just um is the advice the same for those groups of people are they are they very different um are these experiences kind of similar in many ways in in terms of dealing with that adversity and overcoming the challenges to get where you need to go yeah I mean they are you know one of the things then the last handful of the years I mean I've always taken people on these on these trips I mean the show is about me you know taking people on trips um but I've done a lot more of my hunts post tv show really trying to bring people along with me so you know trying to get new people to experience some of these mountain adventures like the trip I just went on I took five guys with me on that trip and they're first big mountain hunting adventure like really trying to prepare them mentally for these you know physicals one thing and I can tell I had a prepare physical but preparing mentally and in a different way than that what they would have going into it naïve like I went into my first hunts nobody helped me and I didn't know I did learn from trial there but if you can help prepare somebody um for those trips are going to be much more enjoyable early on without a lot of those same mistakes that I would have made um and you know I think that frame of reference of embracing the suck to know what you're signing up for like I've been on these trips with guys and all they're going to do is complain and bitch about them because they're they're tough and this isn't going right or that's not going right and you know they just got to get that out of their head that's the way these things are um and uh if they go into it thinking that everything's going to be sugar coated right they're going on the wrong kind of trips um because this is wild shit this isn't staying in a lodge and you know getting driven by a truck out to your deer stand this is you know anything can happen a bear can charge your horse the horse could buck you the horse could decide it's having a bad day you know you're on foot your backpack strap breaks you know you dropped your gun and it don't work anymore like these things are going to happen on these trips and you could have spent 50 to $100,000 on a trip and you do that and it's your harness screwed I keep got to understand these things can happen and you got to accept it and embrace it and uh I think that really just trying to get people in that mindset uh helps them with these with overcoming some of the things on these trips and it makes it more enjoyable like you can have an enjoyable trip if it's about the journey and it's about the adventure and it's not about you know going you know mistake-free or going without a hiccup or going with you know with getting an animal every time or you know you you got to be doing it for the right reason and so like I tried that's I really try to prepare a lot of the guys that are going on these things for the first time um you know people that are going through different you know life challenges whether it's an illness or an injury or you know lost of a loved one or whatever hard times are going through in life I mean my advice is the same as anything that I went through and that's just one day at a time one step at a time you're going to get through it you know it's uh you just you you got to find an objective to work towards to keep your head out of the gutter you know you got to it's tough for people sometimes to be positive of when they're in very difficult situations and so you got to figure out a way to just embrace that grind to get through it and it not be enjoyable but that you can do it and you can keep your mind on track um so you know one day at a time I always anybody I run into this over having challenges in any space in life especially ones that have been through similar circumstances of my life you know they don't got anybody I'll be there for them you know you got somebody you need to talk to or you just need some buddy to vent to or you just want some advice or you want to know how I got through it or you know always kind of open that channel and let them bend my ear on those things you know sometimes you just need need somebody right so um you know always try to to help in that arena where I can but you know again on the advice side it's going to be the same that give them when I'm talking to you is it's that you know one step one win at a time just get out out of bed is a win you know the next day do a little more the next day do a little bit more eventually you build that momentum and you pull yourself out of that rut and is that kind of the same but so you talk if we just segue back to the hunting aspect of it you talked about expectation settings right people have these unrealistic expectations of what the hunt is that they're you know they're not they're not what they're not expecting certain elements of it so but once they're out there and you talked about these five guys that you just had out there with you um what what do you tell them on the hill like you're on the mountain and guys and you probably see I've seen it where I've lost guys I've had guys to say I'm done like I'm absolutely done and you talk them through and you get them to sort of and then you know the one guy I actually he did fly out he was done he was just I'm out of here and that and that's fine it it does happen but how do you get guys through that on the mountain and did you have you had that word guys you're losing guys you can see it and then you talk them through it um have you had that experience on the mountain yeah I mean not necessarily the quitting part I've had you know people get injured where it wasn't really able to finish um you know whether they you know did something to their knee or whatever the case was that just wouldn't allow them to go up the mountain but you know I've seen guys in camp that I've been at that had quit um and you get a mixed bag on those was it a mental or was they rightfully not really should have been out of them all and I've seen both you know I've seen guys that showed up that you knew as soon as they showed up like this guy's not going to make it a day because they came in completely out of shape uh you know to the degree that they weren't going to walk a hundred yards up so you know I think you got to be smart about it you know and I wish some outfitters would probably be a little bit more transparent with some of these clients so that they at least had a chance um there's some folks that have seen show up at sheep hunts here like what are you doing here um you know you're you're you're gonna be miserable you're gonna quit um be now say this to them but you just kind of I can sense it and I've always and every single time my intuition has been right you know you just see somebody show up and their hundred pounds overweight they don't have the right gear you know whatever and you're just like man you know you feel bad for them because like they just needed maybe some better coaching or or or what not before they they they signed up for what they were signing up for um because there aren't trips that are the faint heart right and and I definitely tell my friends that that I'm taking on these trips I'm like I'm gonna just tell you the way it is like you're gonna get up and walk on places that you don't want to walk and you're gonna look down you're gonna like if I slip I'm gonna die and you know you just can't think about that you just got to keep your eyes focused where you're going it's one step at a time and you just do it um you gotta be smart don't put yourself in unnecessary situations if there's a better way but yeah you're gonna ride your horses across something stuff you're gonna hike across them some stuff that you know you gotta be careful and you know you can't be nervous in those situations you gotta be able to handle that like so as I'm saying they're not these trips are for everybody um if you can't overcome that it's not just about physical it's also about you know embracing certain fears um when you get put in those situations you know put put a hundred pounds on your back and go down something steep with a getting dark and being exhausted and uh you know get in into some areas that you know look a little steps really like you better have some nerves you know you can't break down you gotta get down you gotta get off them on so um I try to just forewarn the guys that before they get into it to say look there's certain places certain kinds of hunt based upon what you're willing to deal with you know and you know there are areas that you can go sheep hunting and that aren't as rough and nasty as others um and so you know you just try to make them understand what they're signing up for you know going on your very first sheep hunt and it being a pure backpack hiking in 30 miles like you know that may not be what you want somebody to do for the very first one you know maybe get them some horses on that first trip you know so um you know those are things that I learned lessons on as I want these trips but being very anal about the details I also ask a lot of questions you know right there they out yeah I love I love all the outfitters I mean and some of them are good friends um but they lack in the detail side and I think a lot of it because of the the communication where they live and um what not aren't like what we're dealing with in the city and um it's not as easy to get all the details you want you know and and uh you know so I think a lot of guys go into these trips unprepared because they weren't detailed or ealy and they show up and they're missing gear or you know they didn't prepare right the right way um or add certain expectations or whatever but so I always remember over research it over asked questions talk to guys that are very experienced that have done it you know over and over get their packing lists ask them questions on that you know double triple check pack ten times unpack like get it dialed in before you do these trips um don't show up at the airport and there's stuffs away overweight you know ran a bunch of crap you don't like just do your homework and uh if you I think doing your homework and and being obsessive over the details are going to help you be very successful in these trips um yeah and then and then and then overall this the mentality that we've talked about you know you've got you've got to have that that mentality um to overcome yeah awesome all great advice um I'm curious now for you what's next so you've spent nine years you've got you know nine sheep hunts you've got you know you're you're four North American wild sheep what's what's on your honey do list next what's your bucket list next yeah I mean I've been chipping away at it I mean uh over those 10 years I was also going on another big game hunts so um I don't I don't necessarily have a goal to finish the North American 28 29 or whatever it is now um but there were certain bigger ticket items on there that you know I wanted to do my whole life you know the bare hunts were always a big deal um and the moose and um but I've really just had a passion for Africa I just love going over there um you know and I've been trying to go every year and uh so I'm going again next year uh I booked uh I booked the trip to Mongolia because now I'm done with the North American sheep I'm starting to concentrate on some of the other international goat and sheep uh so I've got a Mongolian trip booked uh I've got another trip back to Alaska the brown bear hunt again but really those trips um I'm just not focused on like me trips anymore I'm really trying to put together trips that other friends uh really want to do and so I'm kind of with the uh a different couple different groups of friends that like the we like the hunt together you know trying to put together some bucket list trips that we can all go on together versus just be my journey and uh I just find it way more enjoyable when I got a whole you know whether it's two guys or four or five guys to go on these adventures with um and really trying to cater to setting those up so we can do them together so we'll keep planning some more but those are some of the ones that I got upcoming right on that's exciting um I want to I got to ask you this gunworks is one of our conservation partners a great sponsor I know you talk about when you took your slam that you did it all for them with your gunworks um it was at a brand sponsorship through sheep fever or like obviously you believe in the product as I do um but yeah how did that relationship form for you Chad yeah it was because of the show um uh Aaron Davidson you know I didn't I didn't know gunworks at all I'd reached out to them you know cold called them in a sense and you know um and really just I started to build a relationship with them and and and it was very interested in the concept of sheep shape and what I was doing and so they were one of my first sponsors and uh you know they sponsored this this show it's entirety and I've continued to you know to work with those guys and buy their guns and send all my friends there to buy guns and and uh yeah I mean I love the product and you know continue to use it on all these trips yeah very cool yeah very innovative great product um did you say you used your six five for the stone sheep I know you said you on the moose did you use it for the stone sheep as well yeah I did I used a six five PRC um on this trip I go back and forth you know I really like the seven millimeters I own a lot of the different seven millimeters that they they've made over the years what they've had that long range magnum and that they're really pushing that seven PRC um one of my sheep shape guns they built me was a six five two eighty four normal um and then then into the seven hour round because I had started with a seven rim bag then they were then was a six five uh two eighty four um and then the seven hour round uh then I got into the six five PRC um I still use all of them six PRC's kind of been the the good one I had them build me as they at one point they had run this gun called light saber and it was a foldable foldable um and I that's the ticket it's got that um that XLR chassis stock on it where you can fold it right I mean it's just the it's the best backpack gun because you can stick the whole thing in your backpack right you know so that thing I've been trying to use that most of the these backpack hunts that you know there's something about being able to sit down with your backpack on and not worry about your gun yeah um and uh it just makes it makes it nicer on the horses too you know that's a full bed gun and half and you know how much it was horse gathered yeah um so that was cool but um yeah so gun works is awesome I still go to their shooting schools I try to take you know some of my friends that haven't bought the guns before it you get them set up in a gun and we'll go to the shooting school with the gun works guys and then after that they're usually hooked yeah yeah right on yeah great product great company great people for certain great products for sure so yeah okay cool uh I know I've taken a bunch of time here it's dinner time in Florida uh before we let you go uh anyone wants to check you out best places uh I guess YouTube and um obviously Instagram uh can you get some handles for us uh that people can check you out on yeah my Instagram is that Chad real wild I don't any other social media kind of discontinued the most teeth but all the old cheap shaped episodes are on YouTube um and uh yeah uh sure I'll be uh trying to make some more videos and stuff in the future uh awesome and well thank you so much and uh we got to try and get you up to bc here and hang out for one of our shows I'd love to have you up unfortunately our shows are right smack the ab in the middle of all the big shows down south so it's always uh always a tough time trying to get you guys up here for them but I'd love to have you up here in British Columbia and uh um yeah we're we're really excited to see you get that stone cheap so congrats again on all your achievement thank you so much for being on the show and uh yeah thank you for for all you do for the things that we all love uh wild cheap and wild places so yeah I appreciate it thanks for the time