Shed Hunting and More! Tyson Healon with Blackhorn Outdoors // S3E4

[Music] From the Misty Pacific Coast to the Rugged Cascade Mountains and beyond to the high desert in the east, you are listening to the Oregon First Hunting and Fishing Podcast. All right thank you so much for tuning in we're glad that you decided to listen to our podcast today. My name is Bryant I'm your host and I'm joined with my co-host Gage. Hello here in our Salem studio with real microphones a lot of times recently but we've been recording out and about and the audio is just not the same. Oh you know so you get good quality audio when you're on the limit but all three of us are here we're joined with our guest Tyson Heeland and I mean Tyson does it all just like just like us we're cut from the same cloth you know hunting, fishing, shed hunting big time especially with your your black horn outdoors page is a lot about shed hunting and so you hit it hard which is cool I'm excited to try to glean from you a little bit but not that I'm itching to get into shed hunting so don't think that you know you're you're training a competitor or something but I'm just curious about the world of shed hunting. Man it's just not like that when it comes to shed hunting especially on the coast like I honestly don't pay attention to boot tracks at all. Yeah it's the coast man like you there's one little nook and cranny and you'll miss it like yeah yeah like over on the east side where you're looking at these big wide open expenses where like someone's walked up to this glassing point good point or there's a good chance that he's glassed up whatever I'm trying to see yeah so but on the coast dude you can miss him by 10-15 yards and never find him so yeah I mean that's also true for the sheds that are still attached to a deer's head I mean absolutely they're sneaky out there. I've watched guys walk into a patch timber that I saw uh heard a hulk walk into and they walk out of it like they're not the hulk or anything you're gonna watch them those elk walk out the same path that guy just came down. It's it's happened man yeah. Elk or elk and deer both I mean I know I walk right past deer every day so yeah that's how they stay alive yeah good at it for sure. Gage you want to give it a try this time. Sure with the announcements yeah the the call they actually had the announcement. Yes well um remember don't don't just read it you've done this before. Yeah yeah. Yeah. Well remember to follow us to stay up to date on all of our updates and coming events here at the Salem First Hunting and Fish and Club share the show with a person share with your buddies who are also into hunting love to get more people in the community come out to our events they're always fun. Get to meet some new people and also give us feedback we love to hear for saying anything wrong or if we are missing somebody in our community that we'd love to talk to you guys would like to hear to talk to so reach out to us follow us share us. Next event. Next event. Yes next event is the North West Mountain Challenge July 11th through 13th Bryant and I along with Jericho will also be there so I'll need to be there for a day Bryant will be there all three days so yeah love to see you guys out there see what how you guys stack up to the competition I know there's gonna be a lot of people out there so and the big announcement for us at the mountain challenge is going to be a we're gonna be raffling off a release. Yeah so yeah it's gonna be a Scott Ghost release we were taking a look at it and it's pretty sweet. I mean the the thing about releases is people you know they're particular about what they want so you know hopefully the raffle is still fun we'll see but it's a good release even then it's always fun to take her around with something. Yeah yeah yeah see if you like it see if you love it it could change your whole shooting you know it's a good release it's not a hinge style release I think yeah but it's still a wrist release though but yeah so yeah it's not handheld but yeah so if you tell us the name of our last guest which is Tyson then we're gonna put you on double that's that's how we're gonna know the the listeners versus the the new people so if you tell us the name of Tyson just say oh I listen to your show like Tyson's episode I don't know however you want to say it we'll give you a double entry for that release try to do some fan service there right yeah well in this episode we're gonna talk about the Oregon Sports Pack Slam Western Oregon Outdoorsmanship and have a conversation with our guest Tyson Heelin. I first learned about you Tyson when as I was just saying I saw a 2020 you got this epic giant three-point blacktail here on the west side very local to where I have always hunted you know and so I I was immediately interested one one thing that I was suspicious of at the time even when you posted that as I was thinking I bet you we hunt the same spots yeah and so I just had to like add you on Facebook I didn't even know about your black horn outdoors or anything like that and you know as I have become aware of of your social media stuff too I've seen you've taken lots of great elk you know bow hunting elk and recently started turkey hunting but that's kind of how we really got to know each other over the last couple months is you know I got a message from you hey I think I know what turkeys you're looking at yeah I think I might know that road you're on yeah you took a guess I mean you're a boulder than me because when I saw you with that big bug I kind of wanted to ask the same question yeah but you know it's it's just not something you normally do so but I'm glad that you you called me out on the turkey spot yeah I wasn't even trying to like post very clear landmarks you saw a power line dare I say yeah and you knew where it was I'm not look I'm not the guy who's gonna like go in and find someone spot off of their Facebook and like go check it out but I I see a lot of animals man like I yeah look over a lot of elk lot of deer every year shed hunting I see a lot of different animals a lot of different horn configurations and I recognize a lot of things yeah so I mean that's just I've found a lot of people that hunt the same area or shed hunt the same area just simply by like seeing a picture and go man I recognize that yep yep and it's honestly kind of crazy yeah well that that's been another thing that's hard for me because I do the the podcast video versions where it's just random b-roll have my GoPro on while I'm hiking through the woods or something you know and I I just know that there's plenty of guys watching that who know right where that is I'm very careful like if there's a road marker of any kind or even a mileage marker or anything like that I'm like I'm cutting that out but you know there's it's just unavoidable at some degree yeah man I'm not gonna lie I've paid attention yeah yeah you're like you're like pin point and I'm like yeah Timber looks familiar but I don't know yeah that's the other good part of it though like what you're saying about looking for sheds is you you may know the road I'm on yeah but I don't yeah it might be hard to find some of the little holes I'm crawling into yeah it does not really matter on the coast man like yeah not near as much as everybody thinks like I protect my spots obviously to an extent I'm not gonna go showing off a clear cut where you know I that I think is has high potential for whatever but at the same time even if you knew that clear yeah yeah it doesn't necessarily matter you know there's there's a lot of things that go into this yeah so if you don't know what you're doing it doesn't matter and then on the other hand of that sometimes when I find out where someone's hunting I kind of want to go there less yeah because I'm like oh it's all haunted out you know so yeah kind of like give and take there yeah and until you see them posting some you know giant thing in here like yeah there's good stuff in there but I mean it's kind of like that great big buck that I shot I had never seen another person back there I'd never seen a boot track I shot that buck and I had a trail camera set up back there and I left it through November and there was so many people that were back there was I on it no I don't think they ever got the deer like I had another big deer on that camera not quite as big but oh really other big buck yeah yeah they never got him I kept okay measures of them through shed season and stuff but nice you're fine to shed no no that spot is really tough for sheds yeah yeah well you really learn the animal shed hunt well we'll talk more about shed hunting anyway yeah all right you're ready for some icebreakers yes sir all right gauge want you hit him so first question fishing or hunting hunting absolutely okay bow or rifle definitely an archery guy I would I would archery hunt blacktail in a heartbeat if the season was better yeah yeah like the late season blacktail now because of how late rifle season goes yeah you're you're shooting yourself in the foot by not hunting rifle season even if you wanted to hunt it with a bow which I've really debated on doing this year I probably won't do it no you'll stick with the rifle yeah it's just your hunting is so tough man like in my opinion it's way harder than elk hunting like elk hunting is very physically demanding but deer man they will test your will these blacktail like this year I had more encounters with like good bucks than I think I ever have but usually the first buck I get a chance at Yeah, yeah, I pass a lot of fork and horns, but the first good buck I get a chance at And he's gonna hit the ground and they sure with you. Yeah, yeah, four that got away from me There's three that got away from me before Knock one down So yeah, and I've done the late season archery grind. It's tough. I've had some success But I got one good one and I was like all right. That's probably good for now. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah I've done pretty much only rifle for deer and then this last year due to scheduling I got the archery tag And I was lucky enough to get a buck opening day, but it was the sick buck. Oh, yeah That's them right there with his antlers that popped off when I grabbed him But so cool, you know, but I figured it first first archery buck. I'm I'm gonna shoot the first four key I see and it was opening day and then you know here we are with all that but anyway And you know if not to your your home or form for you, but it was off a boat too. Yeah, a little drift boat. Yeah, that was fun And then it's impressive honestly shooting a buck with a boat is not easy Yeah, yeah, you see videos of guys sitting up in tree stands and smoking these big bucks and it's like dude you don't understand Yeah, yeah, it looks easy. It's not no definitely definitely all right next question big blacktail shed or big elk shed Mm-hmm. Okay, so I'm a preface this a little bit. Okay So I will take a big blacktail shed over a big like And it depends on the size. Yeah, yeah, but like a big blacktail shed over a big rocky shed because I've been going over for Rockies for a long time From basically from the point that I actually started and did really well you find big ones like there's big ones over there now I will take a three 20 a 320 inch approximately Roosevelt shed over a three 40 rocky shed any day any day like not even compares They're so hard to find yeah, like yeah, I mean I put more time in the woods looking for oak sheds than anything and I've never found one over the well I found one on the cusp of being 300 Wow really nice set, but that's it man Well, I mean that's that's like the Epidemi lifetime rosevelt is once you hit that 300 like that's that's rare and a lot of hunters will never Kill a 300 rosevelt. I was young, you know before I really got into shed hunting which Is a huge game to like to go off track a little bit. It is a huge game changer of really learning These animals where they're living the type of stuff these big bulls want to be in when you really start to dial in shed hunting It just opens your mind up to the possibilities of what's really out there But before I really started shed hunting a 280 bowl was the biggest bowl I'd ever seen. Yeah, yeah My dad actually killed the biggest bowl up to that point that I'd ever seen It was a bowl that we hunted for like two or three years We hunted him for three years. We had troke and pictures of him for two and then we finally killed him on the third year Out of blind luck. Oh, yeah, we've yet to kill another one like him like he always had a big herd Was always distracted and my dad we both were coming in on this herd from opposite ends. Yeah He just happened to pick the right end of the herd and the big bowl was off of the herd probably 50 60 yards Raking a tree walked out in front of them 20 yards. Brought side. Yeah, yeah, I love that. I love it I'm afraid like an hour later that same herds So they bumped out of that clear cut and went into the reprod I was like we found his bowl Obviously we're pretty elated went over went back up the road to go get my pack And as I get to my pack I look up and there's a cow standing there. Oh, yeah, oh, I was like oh my god They're right here. Yeah, I drop back down to the ground. They ended up spooking and went Literally went in a circle right back to the exact clear cut. They just were I walked back out there. Oh, man They were able to get a shot at a spike Sweet spiked by fork and I ended up killing my first That's awesome. It was two and one day dude. I love that so cool. They ended up dying Probably 50 yards apart. Oh my goodness. It was just like it for a day Most insane day of elk hunting. Yeah, you could like see each other while you're cutting them up and stuff He was inside the reprods. I could actually see him but like I could hear him I knew where he was and everything and that's awesome dude. I made for a really long night. Oh, yeah You took the day off work after that. I'm sure oh, I was still in high school So okay, yeah, I was gonna ask is yeah, you're probably still in high school. Yeah, yeah, I think I was 16 or 15 at that time or so. That's so cool Man, I don't know if it's a Roosevelt thing But yeah, the they circled themselves after they spooked so much Yeah, especially when they're really wound up like that that heard had Four branch poles in it and of those four Three of them were big. Yeah, one my dad killed was the biggest and then there was a Giant five by five and another big five by six And they were just yeah, they were bugling on their own and every once in a while You know, you'll come into those situations where it's just like it's opening weekend and they're screaming going crazy Just doesn't make any sense Every once in a while you're in the right place at the right time because it's like why is it not like this all the time This is like you Mexico or something Yeah, the rest of the year. I might only hear one more bugle like honestly If you're here to come in quiet. Yeah, all right We're getting off track here. Yeah, sorry. Uh, fourth question. Turkey or ducks. Okay, so to eat turkeys But hunting wise I really enjoy hunting ducks. Yeah, that's a lot of fun But I think if I was to only be able to do one of the other I would choose turkeys because I like Yeah, yeah, ducks are good not great Sure, this question is the same so whoops So now it's what's up in the outdoors. Yeah continue on so I mean we're gonna we're gonna be calling this part of the show that I got a message from Tyson this morning that you had some good luck on hitting the springers. Yeah, yeah, I Had a little bit of time this it was like two o'clock when we were scheduled to meet up So I went out this morning trying to find some springers and was able to get one so yeah, it was a good day Yeah, yeah, it was like it wasn't big or nothing. It was like a 8 to 10 pound springer but he was chrome good looking fish cut great. So yeah, man fuel for For the oak mountains here in a little bit. Oh, yeah, jerky. I'm then or something. No, I so my wife doesn't eat fish the kids like they'll Maybe eat it. I mean they it depends on if they like it or not. Yeah For the most part, it's just me eating it So I'll portion it out for like each night, but you know, I try to eat well Especially leading up into elx season because I just feel better. Uh-huh So I'll like make them Poster something like that and then I'll just have a piece of salmon with a little bit of pasta. No, that's great, dude Nice you get the whole fish to yourself for me. Yeah, exactly. I don't have to worry about sharing this great until fourth July barbecue Different yeah, I've been doing a lot of fish and two had some boat trouble. So I really kind of feel like we missed the The hard push for springers, but I've been hearing that this last couple weeks people have been doing pretty well So there's still a chance But one thing that I did with Jericho is we we tried our hand at the Pike Mino, you know, the paid thing and uh didn't go too well for us We caught After 13 hours of fishing we caught zero Yeah We caught plenty of other kinds of fish. Yeah, and then the funniest part is the next day Gage and I took some people from our church out fishing and He caught a pike man out Little reasonable just trying to catch stalkers and yeah, they're just trying to catch the stock rainbow trout and No, unfortunately they have to be caught on the Columbia otherwise he totally would have But you know so that that was an adventure like so funny. I first I thought it was a calf fish Yeah, cuz you've never seen a pike Mino before. No, I've never reeled in a pike Mino and yeah I reeled in and you're like you've got to be kidding Yeah, it's a staked pike Mino. I got so many of them growing up On the Yamhill River small mouth fishing. Yep caught so many of those things and I just thought it was gonna be Go up there cash cow. Yeah catch 50 of them tonight And I mean there's guys that are doing it, but it wasn't me this we're gonna we're gonna make another attempt But you know yeah our our side gig might not be paying off To get in the shed start someone yeah, I mean that's the other thing there's other ways, but you know Yeah, it would have been a good summer side job, but not not quite Yeah, it's fun too. I mean at least you're getting out there giving it a shot. It's good for the river anyway Yeah, you get out there and get some of them kill a little helper salmon Yeah, and not not dimension. I mean, you know like we said salmon whatever pike Mino But I mean bass fish is pretty hot right now too. I don't know you've done much bass fishing. I used to do a lot of it When I was a kid down it to pawn down there. It's kind of Blowing names out right now, but I don't believe it. I know what pond you're talking about this piece of water than I'm talking about has Giant bass in it and I used to fish for them every summer I'd go down there and try to catch catch them on their beds because I was about the only time you could get them. And I did catch one really big one out of there in the rest of them. I just hooked them, lost them. Oh, yeah. There was so many weeds at this pond. You'd literally hook them. And if you didn't have braid to just get them out of the stuff, you weren't getting them. They would bury themselves in the weeds and just break you off. That was the only place growing up that I ever caught large mouth. But I used to catch a bunch of stock trout out there too. It's long as you can get away from the weeds. But there's plenty of little ponds around the valley that has so much fun. Oh, yeah. Bass fishing. The problem with that pond and a few of the other smaller ones is for some reason the fish got a bunch of worms in the meat. I never ate the bass, but I would keep the panfish, you know, bluegill and stuff. And I always have to squeeze a bunch of worms out of the meat. Oh, wow. It kind of makes it, you know, you definitely don't tell the wife about that. I never ate them out of there. Even the saucers, like just given them my grandpa, because he likes to smoke them. He's like, you want some of this? No, that's all right. Yeah, I just got it for you. Oh, really? Wow. I don't want this. He's really nice. Oh, man, I don't know. Barbecue. These ones that Gage and I just got this weekend, we smoked them. And one of them was a good size. Actually, a guy gave it to us. We got the little what they call legals, you know? But then there was one that they, I hate the names they used, but they used the name trophy. But, you know, we're actually able to play that one and smoke it. And it smoked up kind of red. Like, I'm surprised it was good. You know, so I'm not going to say that I'm going to try it. Yeah, yeah. But I'm a little spoiled with my springers. Oh, yeah. I feel like once you go that way, I can't go wrong. That's how I feel about like the strippers too. Like, it's a long drive for us, but I just love stripper fishing so much. Yeah, so cool. It's so great. Anyway, but enough about fishing. That's going on right now. It's summertime. But the other thing we wanted to bring up is that if you were planning on bow hunting this fall and you do not already own a bow, you missed your chance. It's too late. You got it. You'll be bow hunting maybe next year, but you got to be shooting that thing already every day. Like since, I don't know, even March realistically. And it makes it even harder when you live in town because that means you got to drive somewhere to shoot, but really like just a reality check because I've talked to some people recently. It's like if you wanted to be bow hunting this year, you should have already had your bow and you should have already been practicing. Yeah, look, you got to be doing something like I mean, I'm not going to go say there isn't some little niche of a person who could be shooting 200 arrows a day from right now all the way until season. And yeah, you'd probably be somewhat proficient. However, the commitment that this takes in my mind, if you haven't been shooting your bow for months, yeah, you've missed your opportunity. I understand everybody's busy like, dude, I get up at four o'clock in the morning, drive to work. I'm there until four o'clock and then I drive home and I'm home by usually five thirty six and I still shoot every single night. Yeah, I'm always trying to get better. Like you have to have that level of commitment. You owe it to these animals. Like you really do. There's no better way to say it than you owe it to that animal to be the very best you can be in executing a merciful kill shot. Yeah, that's it. Yes, there's no better way to put it and I'll take long shots. Like I'm not opposed to taking it. I mean, this boy killed last share of shot him at 70 yards and I hit within like I had probably a six to eight inch window by, you know, a foot to hit my mark and it was a perfect kill shot and that bowl only went 30 yards before he just piled up. And I also shot him three times even though I didn't need to, but like he's still standing so I'm going to keep sending them. And by the end of it, like I shot him on the second one and he just ate it and stood there. Wow. I walked up and had 30 yards and shot him again and he like he was falling over as I put the third. Yeah, yeah. Two things that are like absolutely cannot skip on you need to make the best shot you can. I mean, things happen. I get it. But if you're not prepared for that shot, I got no remorse for you dude. Yeah, you have it. But also you better get all that meat. You owe everything to that animal. They gave up their life for you. You better do your best. Yeah. Yeah. So I got a little dinner. No, yeah. And none of us are trying to sound like a whole other than that or anything. It's just the reality of the amount of time it takes to learn to shoot a bow proficiently. And then apply it to like my hardest lesson my first year that I heard tree hunted was the uphill versus downhill shot. Absolutely. You know what you allow? Like I learned, you know, you really need to have your bow locked down. Like for me, my peep slid. And I put a sharpie mark and I'd slide it back before I shot. But what do you think happened when there's an elk trudging toward me? So the last thing you think, like, you know, little things like that that I learned, you can't really put up with it. But even just the skill level, you know, I had told myself my first season, I'm not going to shoot over 30 yards, you know. And that was after shooting every day from when I got the bow in February to season came in September, you know. Now I've been shooting my bow longer so I'm more comfortable willing to take further shots. But, you know, there's certain limitations you put on yourself that are you just got to, you got to start somewhere. So go ahead and get your bow now and shoot it a bunch. But you know, you'll be ready by next year, man. You'll be there. Just shoot it a lot. You'll be there. Yeah. Not this year. Like you owe it to that animal, do the right thing. So pick up the rifle. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, but you can trigger punks on a rifle. You will. It'll probably work out. Yeah. Yeah. Exactly. Especially on the coast because you're only shooting 50 yards usually anyway. Yeah. And like for me, I just got my bow in December. So like what Brian just said, my limit is maybe 40. Yeah. Like I'm still kind of practicing out to that distance. So like I think that was great advice that you were telling me when I first got my bow and meat. Talking about getting into it. But another thing, I think this can also deter future hunters is if they, you know, get a bow, maybe they've never been hunting before period. They go out for these seasons and they're like, holy crap. This is tough. I can't get animals. Like I see an animal 300 yards away and I get to 250 and they're spooked. Like, you know, that wooden woodsmanship that you know, you're mentioning. Yep. So important to develop. And I think the best is rifle hunting. Yeah. I mean, like I even further pass that the woodsmanship just being in the woods. Like you don't even have to be hunting. Like just if you see a herd of elk and you are planning on hunting, go stalk them. Like pick one, especially because you think about it, you're going to be picking out the bowl in the herd. Right. Like it might not be the herd bowl. Like maybe there's a spike or something. It's your first year. You want to go kill that bowl. That's fine. But pick one animal in the herd when you're practicing on stalking these animals and stalk to that animal. Yeah. Like, it's great if you can get into a herd of 30 elk, like you can get within, you know, 50 yards of whatever elk. But if that bowl is on the other side of that herd, now you're looking at 100 yards, you know, and that just that doesn't do anything for you. But I mean, the woodsmanship is definitely the most important thing as far as like you're getting in on these animals. Just working the wind, knowing what sounds are going to alert them and what they look like when they're alerted. You know, yeah. Yeah. Everything about it is just so important. Yeah. One thing I did this year, turkey hunting. I was like, you know, I'm going to go shoot my bow at a turkey because not the first animal I don't want to drop back on is, yeah, this big five by five elk. Yeah. Right. I'd rather have it be this tall in the year. Yeah, the one that will kill us here. Yeah, for sure. Yeah. Yeah. No, that the great advice. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, I was I was going to hunt turkeys with a bow this year for exactly what you're saying, you know, because the earlier you can start working out, you can never actually replicate the moment when you're trying to put a good shot on an animal. Like you cannot replicate it. But if you can do those moments over and over again, that's just better. So if you bow on everything, obviously that works out. But I couldn't do that this year because I was hunting on private property with a lot of houses around for the most part. So I could not shoot with a bow. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Most spots. So all in all, it's time to start shooting your bow. And whether you're hunting this fall or not, you know, start get get that bow out or hopefully you've already had it out for quite a while. I wanted to quickly touch on the Oregon sports packs slam. So we have that. We announced it last episode. And if you want to find out more specifically about what that is and how to apply for it, then go to our social media is either Instagram or Facebook. And we have pinned posts that tell you all about it. But essentially we want to create a little bit of a record keeping system, award system for people who successfully fill the five big game tags in Oregon from the sports pack. So that's Turkey, Cougar, Bear, Deer and Elk. And so, you know, we just want to recognize that it's a hard feat. It's all for fun, you know, and congratulations to anyone who goes out there and even pursues those animals or, you know, however many tags you fill or don't fill, it's all fun. It's all an important part of our lives and who we are and what we do. you know. We just thought well we have turkey slams. We've all these other slams that are you know recognized North American duck and all these things I'm like well, let's let's do the Oregon sports pack slam work. We're Oregon first hunting and fishing So anyway if you know someone who is doing that or if you yourself you can apply We have an application setup that is live We're for this first time around. We're just gonna recognize 2025 and on and then as we learn about the interest, you know, maybe we'll backdate some for the past But you know for now just 2025 and on so if you filled your turkey your spring turkey your head of the game Cougar you really should have been hitting it But now is a good time get out there, you know, and then spring bears behind us But fall bears coming up so you know lots of opportunities to still make it happen and if you didn't kill your turkey this year We do a fall turkey That's all I'll say about that go to our social media is if you're more interested Let's talk a little bit about something that's really important a look at our news You can't avoid it if somehow you live under a rock and you don't already know about this then Breaking news to you, but there's some senators from states away in Utah Who are trying to sell off millions of acres of Public land now the the reason why I don't want to spend too much time on this is because it's evolving so fast every day and changing But where we were at was three million acres A lot of those in Oregon if you looked at the map that was for sale It was a for service land and BLM land hunters wrote in to their senators They called they emailed so many different, you know And if you didn't do that I encourage you to still do that because the most recent iteration of the plan Lowered the amount sold from three million down to 1.2 million acres Which is still and then you look at what that still includes it also it changed it to where it's only BLM land But you look at what that includes and it's still most of my hunting spots and most of your hunting spots anyone who's listening like the these This is the our heritage as American citizens It is our our birthright I've heard it called and I fully agree with that like they're trying to sell off these public lands that we can go access Anytime without asking permission and they're trying to turn it into private hands now what happens when land goes private no camping No trapping no hound hunting no campfires The gates go up A lot of them yet pay to play a lot of them even no access whatsoever the intention here is to turn it into housing But the point I heard brought up recently. That's just genius is unless there's a Language in the plan to turn these big expanses of BLM. They're trying to sell into half acre parcels It's not going to help housing because black rocks going to buy it and then they're going to turn it into You know these homes up in the mountains who's going to be able to afford that you know and Another thing of this bill that's not really talked about too much is it has the mask of a budget reconciliation bill but Included in the bill is cuts for mining and so the royalties that are being cut for mining on BLM Would lose the American economy dollars? So we sell this land for how much who knows I haven't done the math But then we lose out on our mining royalties It's it it doesn't make sense. It's very thinly veiled way for for this senator I don't even want to say his name but to To earn money for his donors Hey guys, I have an update on this we recorded on Friday when we had this conversation and then Saturday The Senate got together to vote on the bill which was a big budget bill that included the sale of our public lands and we learned late Saturday that They were forced to remove the public land sales completely From the budget bill in order to push it through and that's because of the voices of hundreds of thousands of Hunters fishermen outdoorsmen hikers bikers everyone coming together making a huge ruckus Calling their congressmembers calling their senators calling anyone who represents them that they could and Telling them that they needed to remove the sale of our public lands from this bill and so good job to everyone who spoke up Everyone who sent in an email did whatever you had to do Unfortunately the fight's not completely over because they're still talk of Future plans to sell public lands, but for right now this big issue that was blaring us in the face We killed it. We got it done taken care of maybe send a thank you to your senator and say thank you for upholding our desire as the people of The United States of America and keeping our vitally important public lands So keep yourself in the loop pay attention to what's going on locally and nationally because unfortunately these days You can't just be the silent majority the silent majority doesn't mean as much when these lawmakers are making decisions that greatly affect our lives And we don't normally have a saying it. We have to give ourselves to say like we did by reaching out calling and sending emails So thank you again for doing that. Let's stay vocal. Let's keep on the alert Listen to the watch dogs who are there paying attention to what's going on and We'll try to keep our rights as hunters and fishermen and outdoorsmen as long as we possibly can preserve them for our children. So thank you Let's get into our conversation with Tyson Heeland All right Tyson we always start off with this question When we come to this part of the show share your favorite hunting or fishing story or outdoor experience Probably my favorite hunting story I definitely have a lot of them, but probably my favorite one is an animal I didn't even kill So my brother was in the military He came back home two years ago. Yeah two years ago. Wow And he was able to harvest his first Elk with a bow wow when that happened We had been in contact all day. I was at work of course and he told me you know where he was going the He had had someone tell him that the herd crossed the road behind him while he's parked at a gate Right so the guy some guy pulled up on him was like hey I heard just crossed the road right behind you if you're going And he calls that a non-hunter told him that yeah That's when you know you can trust it yeah because if it was a guy holding the boat in his hand All right, he's like what do I do? I'm like you follow that Guy in a FedEx truck just told you yeah, what does he have to lose by lying to you like just go But he ended up hunting where he was going anyway. He didn't find the Elk obviously And then he turned around left went to the other spot that I because I told him exactly where to go Yeah And he went back there he couldn't find him it was pouring down rain So he left and he called me he's like man. I just don't know what to do. I'm like turn around go back They're gonna be there man like they are there There's nowhere else for him to go Anyway, this is like the all my self but middle of September it's it's towards the end Okay, if I remember right it was the last weekend so it was right up to the end Yeah, yeah, a lot of close calls some heartbreak, but it was honestly perfect like in my mind it If you can have the perfect season it's gonna be like so many ups and downs and then you're just gonna be able to just scratch it out and get it done Oh, yeah, that's my favorite but anyway, so He went but he went home got changed went back to the gate walked out there and right where I basically I didn't tell him exactly where they're gonna be but I'm like they're probably gonna be somewhere in this clear cut He walked out there and there they were there they were that making a good shot on the spike Oh, man. Was he able to call it in or sneak in or he's snuck in. Yeah, I was spot and stalk Yeah, he was able to sneak down and get a shot that's hard to do man. Yeah, he made a good like I think it was a 50 yard shot That's what the rain does help because when you're calling the rain kind of sucks, but when you're sneaking that's great. Yeah, it's perfect But he hit him mid mid middle of the body, but it caught long he explained it to me where he hit it Anyway, I was home at that point. He called me said he stuck one and I'm like okay. Yeah coming man So I was able to actually convince my wife to let me take my daughter Oh, that's a clock and how old your daughter at that point? Uh, shhh at that point. Let's see. She's turning four this year. So she'd been two. Oh, man. That's awesome Cool pictures. I hope yeah, yeah, we got some cool pictures, but so we Bomb back there me and her I carry her all the back. Yeah, like a mile back or so Uh, and then I've got some really cool. My dad was there too and I've got some cool pictures of us tracking blood like um I'm been over pointing at the ground and so is my brother and my uh my my daughter She's back with grandpa and she's copying me. She's picking up The leaves and showing the ground tracking blood And then now so we ended up tracking this bull for a lot longer than both of us thought we should because I was I was on the blood And I was like look dude. This is lung blood like or or at the very least like it's aerated right red blood This is kill shop blood. Did you say it wasn't raining by then? It was not raining at that. Okay. Yeah That's good. Well, we continue down and hit the timber. And he was going downhill the entire time, which was a good sign. And then, but just a lot longer than I thought he was going to. So we're about 200 yards into this track job. And come into this creek bottom, we actually find his arrow. And we had been falling like really light blood. The whole time it was good looking blood, but it was really light. And then that arrow came out. Oh, yeah. Everything changed. I mean-- Hold the plug. Yeah, there was blood all over the place. Yes. It just-- It got pretty crazy. Pretty crazy, pretty fast. And it was getting dark. Tensions were really high, because we were all frustrated. We couldn't find this elk. And it was getting too dark. So me and my dad were actually-- we weren't arguing yet. But we were well on our way. Yeah, we're very set in our ways. And we're both very good hunters. And we both have our own ideas. And he's holding my daughter. And I'm like, look, I got to go. So I was walking up to grab my daughter and basically leave. We were done. Or I was done. I had to get her home. It was already a way past bedtime. And I go up to grab my daughter, like the 20 yards. And I turn around to talk to my brother to kind of give them some advice. And as I do that, I catch just a little piece of tan through the brush. Oh, man. And I-- Everything-- Yeah. --time stood still for a second. I grabbed my bino's, throw him up. And there he is. He's right in there in the brush. And dead. Yeah, he was dead as a door nail. Yeah. But we were at like a standstill because he had every trail that he was trying to go down just ran out. Like he didn't go up. He didn't go up this way. In a creek bottom, this trail that went along-- He went down to the creek. Just ended there. It just went into a pile of brush. But he was in that pile of brush. He literally fell over in it. Yep. So man. And just turned around and it was like-- They know when they're dying. And they just want to bury themselves. Yeah, they want to get-- they know they're in danger. So they're going to go to the dumbest spot they can imagine. But when I turned around and threw my hands up, I could just see my brother's face just lit up. I think that from-- That's cool. You could see the-- Deva station. Deva station to just absolutely elated, excited. I didn't have to say anything. But of course, I was like, there's an elk right there. Yeah. They all freaked out. And all that tension, all that irritation and-- Turns to victory. You know, it was just the most amazing win. And then I get all these cool pictures. And my daughter's there. And I get to actually share this harvest with her. Even though I didn't even kill it, it was just-- it was such a powerful moment. Yeah. My family's there. I wish my wife could have been there, but she was at home. And just being able to share that with my daughter-- and I've been able to do that now. With my bowl last year, it wasn't quite as strung out, right? Like my bowl went 30 yards. And she wasn't there for the track job, like her, anything like that. But being able to share those harvest with her has been my favorite thing ever since. She's been in on 2 elk now. She's 3 going on 4. So most people-- That's great. Say that. I know. That's a-- A real life on elk. Two more than I have ever done. It's been great, man. She's a trooper, too. And it was funny that first elk. She was definitely afraid. Like, she would go up and touch it, but she was very, very, very cautious. She was very scared. But I was able to talk her through it. Second one was not like that. Oh, really? Yeah, she was all about it. She was talking to the elk and everything. Yep. Now, she was able to talk a little bit better. So I was able to explain to her, you know, this is the animal that we're going to eat for the rest of the year, and he fueled us. You know, this animal did die, you know? And she's 3. So she doesn't necessarily understand everything I'm saying. But she understands enough to know, like, I'm sure she can feel the atmosphere that's around her and how much this really means. You know, it is a heavy moment. Yeah. Yeah. And not just like an excitement moment. It's a heavy moment. It's great to be able to share that stuff with them, man. Yeah. That's what it's all about. I mentioned earlier how black horn outdoors, your social media presence and whatnot really is revolving around shed hunting a lot of the time. Yeah. We know. We all live seasonally. So whatever season it is, that's what we're doing. But you know, it's always our favorite season, too. Oh, absolutely. Whatever is happening right now is my favorite season. Yeah. But shed hunting is a big part of what you do. I'm just curious, like, why? What got you started? What's interesting to you about it? So when I was a kid, the way that it started was, you know, I had always heard people talk about it. And I knew that Elk and Deer lost their antlers every year. And I knew there was guys that would go look for them and stuff. And then, you know, I just caught the bug and wanted to start looking. And it was a way for me to go out in the woods. I just wanted to spend more time in the woods. I used to coyote hunt a lot. And that was fun, but I sucked at it. So, but not that I was a good shed hunter when I started. But it was kind of like, look, you walk far enough. You're going to find one. Like you. And you can learn so much. And that was probably what really sparked it that first year was just how much I started to learn. But so that was basically what started it. And then from there, man, it's just-- Yeah. It's grown and grown and grown. And now that's like one of my favorite things to do. Yeah. I love hunting. But shed hunting, man, there's just so much less pressure. And it's just something that you can do to stay in shape. And you're going to keep learning the whole time. And it almost feels like now it's part of my preparation for hunting season. It's like the scouting. Yeah. It-- In learning and-- Yeah. So like the, by less pressure, do you mean less people? Or like, is it the pressure on yourself? Like it's not a tag to fill. Yeah, the pressure on yourself for sure. Because hunting season, there's a ticking clock, man. Yeah. No matter what. Even before hunting season, there's a ticking clock. Am I going to be ready? Am I going to be able to be my best self by the time that it comes up? But shed hunting, it's like, I don't care how I feel. I don't care. Like maybe I'm a little bit latched on my training or my meals or whatever. It doesn't really matter. Like, yeah, I'm going to see it in the woods. But those antlers aren't going to run away from me. So as long as I make it, I make it, that's it. Yeah. So-- And that's the fun part about doing it with a buddy or something, too, as you guys can talk. Unless you're really trying to-- let's see if it will be quiet. We'll sneak up on something. Yeah, that's a little different. But if you're just-- I don't-- I'm going to go look right at that foot hill or whatever you're doing. Yeah. Yeah. I'm not going to lie. I usually shed hunting alone. And I mean, this year I shed hunting with people more than-- I'm not kidding-- every other year combined. Oh, yeah. I would go with my dad or my best friend Gabe, or I have one other buddy that I shed hunting with a lot. And then this year, I took some guys out. I reconnected with an old friend that we used to shed hunting together back in the day. And we were able to get out and have some good trips. And then I was also able to go with my best friend. It seemed like every time I went this year, I was going with someone. And it was like a good change of pace. And it wasn't necessarily something that I thought about. It was just-- Yeah. This guy wants to go. I think he'd be cool to hang out with. But let's go do it. Let's go fly some horns. Yeah, so these people, you don't even really know that well. One of them, I didn't know that well. The other ones, I knew them pretty well. Sure. I'm sure. But yeah, I mean, the one guy, he-- it was funny. So we were in some meadows looking for blacktail sheds. And up in this high country, big dark timber beautiful country. I love it out there. But he lives on the coast. So this is completely different terrain for him. And I remember up there, we're glass in this meadow. He's like, have you ever glassed up a shed? I'm like, a blacktail shed. I'm like, yeah, I usually glass up one or two every year. It's tough, but I do do it. And so that's why I keep doing it. It's like, man, I've never glassed one up. I would love to. We went around this bench. And I told him-- I was like, we're kind of staying away from the good stuff for a minute. We're going to hit all the surrounding area. And then we're going to go into the good stuff. OK. And as soon as we got down there, I'm like, yeah, man, it's here. There's a big brown here somewhere. There's all these rubs, big tracks, beds everywhere. Like, all the sign that I'm looking for is there. Yeah. I'm like, OK, we found them. Now we got to dial it in and figure out where this handler is. And he actually went up. And we took a little bit of a break on this ridge because I could not find this handler that I knew was there. And I just couldn't find it. So I was trying to figure out what I wanted to do or what we should do. And I'm like, man, I'm going to go back down and just keep creating this bench. I know what's there. All right. I think I'm just going to stand right here for a minute. OK. So I literally get down to the bench. I'm just starting to go in and start creating it. And he starts screaming. I got a big breath. [LAUGHTER] So cool. So nice. Cool. So I go sprinting back up the hill. And I was like, where? He's like-- and he's looking down the ridge, probably 150 yards down below in this flat that I've never found a shed. And I've been in this spot. I don't even know how many times. Wow. I've never found a shed down there. Yeah. I've gone in there. Never-- it never looked that good. But he threw his binoculars. - He knows up and he started glassing and he picked out a big ol' brown four point. - That's cool. - So cool, his name is Jeb, and I'm sure he's gonna listen to this. - Yeah, nice. - Shout out Jeb, that was pretty cool. - All right, good looking Jeb. - Yeah. - Why do you think Shedhung's getting more popular? - Probably everything that I just mentioned. I mean, you can learn so much and it's a lot of fun and not to mention like you said, it's grown in popularity, it's all over YouTube, it's all over the social media is, everybody wants to do it. And I don't blame a man, it's fun, it's a great way to use your time and learn about the woods and better woodsmanship, you're gonna learn more about these animals and it's a fun thing to do walking up on a big brown, you know? - Yeah. - Even a big white, it doesn't matter, just an antler. - Do you get kind of that like, that moment of like a heart skip when you see it, see one? - Yeah, yeah, definitely. - That definitely happens when you're like hunting, you know, you're like, okay, but then you get that with the Shedhung. - It's definitely different. - Uh-huh. It's, I'm probably a little bit desensitized to it. - Sure. - Because I mean, like, I don't mean to brag, but I've found a lot. But I will say there is a moment too, when you hit, like when you see that Shedh, it's like, yes, you know, like you're excited. And then like, I really dial in, okay, what am I looking at? And then, that is when I get either really excited, or like, oh, cool, heck yeah, you know, that's pretty cool. But when it's big and I can tell, then I get really excited. Yeah. One thing I've kind of noticed is it's social endeavor. It seems to be, it's cool to see that you're taking a bunch of guys out, friends, non-friends, like that, that's really cool. - Yep. - Right, it does the same thing. I'm gonna hopefully start it here soon, with just taking people out hunting and the connections you can grow from those moments. - Yeah. - You're talking about lifelong potentially. - Yeah, I'm a little like Shedh hunting too. So I actually, one person I left out, and she's gonna be mad about this, my wife, brought her out on a couple of Shedh hunts this year. We went over to Central Oregon, looking for Mildere Sheds, and she found her first ever. - Shedh, cool. - And it was like an awesome experience, you know? Like she, she didn't care that much. Like she definitely was excited, but not like me, man, I was like, I was elated that she had found a brown, and it was a nice big three-point brown goofy looking deer, but, oh yeah, I was excited. But yeah, hunting, hunting's different for me. I'm really intense, and I don't even necessarily mean to be, but like, I was able to help my wife get her first turkey this year. It was her first harvest of all time, and I remember when she shot this turkey, I freaked out, and I'm, yes, yes, yes, she goes calm down. (laughing) - What? - Oh come on, man. - I guess that makes us one of us, right? - Yeah. - Oh no, we get, trust me, dude, you're talking to a couple guys who get it with the hype when that bullet flies or that arrow flies, man, there is some celebration. - Yes, oh yeah. - Right there in the moment. - I'm glad we're on the woods. - Like when I watch it. But I watch some people's videos of them killing something, and they're just like deadpan afterward. Like that was a good shot. Got 'em right. I'm like, I can't even, dude, that moment is so intense for me. Like, oh dude. - And I mean like, don't get me wrong. I'm excited, but I'm still like, elk season, I am in kill mode. Like that is just, I don't get excited until that animal's on the ground. Then I freak out. - Uh huh. - Until that moment, man, I'm very intense. - What about when you hear the far off bugle? 'Cause for me, that's an adrenaline rush. - Yeah, I definitely get a hit of that on a bugle. Like I had a bowl this year. I called out 'em from every different angle, and you wouldn't answer. And then I was pretty much done. I'm like, all right, I'm gonna walk down this ridge and eat my lunch, and I'll tell you what I'm eating. And you know, it's noon, one o'clock, and I walked down and I called for probably 30, 40 minutes while I was sitting there. And the bowl wasn't answering. And then I was like, all right, well, I guess it's time to go let out a big view. And I just screamed and this bowl lit up. Like, I don't know, 100 yards down below me. - Oh man, yeah. - But he was in such thick stuff that you couldn't see. And I was like, are you serious? I've been calling at you this whole time. - Yeah, I definitely got a little bit of like, wow. Okay, here we go. - Oh yeah. - I got excited on that one. - Yeah, that's fun. Do you keep all the sheds, you find? - I'm so, right? - I mean, I would love to be able to keep all of them. - Okay. - I have yet to sell a single antler that I thought I actually sold it for what it was worth because they're really-- - And it's not that anybody's giving me a bad deal. It's that I worked so hard for this antler. That antler is one of one. It will never, like that animal can drop his antler the next year and it will not be the antler I found. And so to me, I've yet to sell anything that's worth it in my mind that way. But I try to leverage it because every time I sell antlers, I'm selling it for something important. Like I sold some antler and bought a truck and then I sold some antler and I just bought my bow. - Oh man, yeah. - Yeah. - So I don't sell a lot, but when I do, I usually sell a pretty good amount. Who's buying them? Is it people making dog treats out of them or is it more art stuff? - And no, usually it's art stuff. Like I just, the one on the batch that I just sold was to a guy down in Southern Oregon and he makes like chandeliers and stuff like that. - Okay, I've seen those. - Those are cool. It'd be fun to have one of those hanging around over the dining room table or something. - Oh yeah. - I've thought about getting into making lamps and stuff like that. I've got a buddy who does it. - I wonder if your money would go further that way. - Probably. - Yeah. - I would be willing to bet it would, but it's just one of those things that like-- - Time. - I also hate messing up my antler. - Oh yeah. - Seeing all the stuff I do on them. - Yeah. And if I screw in, you know, if I make a decent lamp and I mess up a couple of deer sheds in the process, but it looks bad and I don't like the way it looks, now I'm really gonna regret it. So like, it's just a matter of like diving in on that, but-- - The risk too. - Yeah. - And there's, I definitely have a big keeper pile but probably bigger than most people. - It probably has like all your firsts and all your family's firsts and all your like your cool unique sheds and your big sheds. - Yep. - Or like consistent years off certain animals. - Oh yeah, I've got that on my grow. - Yeah. - Like ironically, my biggest set of Roosevelt sheds, I've got three years, three out of four years off of that bowl and then he's ghosted me. I have no idea where he went. - Wow. - I think he died, but he's not even his dead, but he might have, it's hard to say though 'cause in this area they're in and out so much and they'll just vanish and then all of a sudden three years later I'll see a picture of someone standing behind the bowl, you know? Like I've done this happen to me before. - Wow. - So in this exact area, like I had two sheds off of a different big six point and then I thought he was dead. He just up and vanished one year. I was never able to find him again. And then I think it was two or three years later, a guy I knew sent me a picture of this bowl and he's standing behind it. - Wow. - Exactly what bowl it was. I'm like, wow, he was still alive, okay. Dude, that's, no that's something because I can't really even name any animals that I'd be like, oh I know, okay. Maybe I do know a bowl, you know? And that's about it. As far as like, oh I know that, you know? So that's a very intriguing part of the shed hunting thing that you're learning who these animals are. - Absolutely. I mean, it takes everything just to that next level where everything is now intertwined. Like I'll find a raghorn, be like, I wonder what he's gonna look like in a couple years and then maybe I'll pick him up the next year. I'm not even recognizing that here. - Yeah. - The bowl I'm talking about that I have three years off of. I found him as like a two foot long five point but he had a droopy brow. And then I found him the next year in a slightly different spot, same area, but same different spot. And he didn't have the same droopy brow. It did drop down but it would curl back up. So I didn't recognize it. - Yeah. - And then the next year I didn't find him. That was the year that I'm missing off of him. And then the following year I found his, like the big set. He's a big five by six. Wow. - I called him lefty because his six point side is outscores his right side by so much. - Man, he must have an injury on one side or so. - I don't even think it's that because really? - His right side strong is just like the time length is so much different. - Weird. - Yeah. - He's got like the same names. I've seen a lot of goofy elk though that - Even more than deer. Where they're just totally lopsided. - It's so weird but yeah. So I went home and I knew I was like, man, I'm pretty sure I have a shed off this bowl. And so I picked up that one little bitty five and I'm like, yeah, that's definitely him. And then I was like, I wonder if I got another one off of him. So I just started digging through the pile more and I'm like, oh my goodness, there he is again. That's him. Like absolutely without a doubt. you can match the bases up and. Everything you can see the progression. It's pretty cool. Yeah, and then like the the dream is that I pick up, you know a handful of years off of all and then I'm able to actually execute and kill him. That's the dream for sure Yeah, and get trail camera pictures in the meantime. Oh, yeah, that's that's the dream for sure Yeah, so you can pictures of these bowls is not that hard like yeah, that's the easy part finding the shed so man That's tough and then killing him obviously Pinnacle yep, you know, that's like Have you ever done that with a black tail? We found like multiple your sheds and then able to harvest them Yeah, kind of so my brother he killed a pretty nice four point that I had sheds off of We killed a nice fork and horn Like a big big two point years ago. They go Pacific fork. Yeah, and we had Pictures of him that strained back for like four or five years. I want to say like we watched him He was a big three point and then like he was like a three by four and then he dropped back down to a three point and then the year They waited up getting him killed. He was just a giant fork and he was just Big and mean old buck did he have that big old nose on it? Yeah, big room and nose his eye He was blind in one eye. It was like poked out and then under his chin right here I guess you can't see it but under his chin he had like a gouge mark that was Really infected like he just you walked up to him and it's like oh my fresh what is yeah I mean from that year fighting, but it was so infected like we actually had to throw away some neck meat off him So that that makes me wonder because I had I shot the infected buck this year did his organs have like a black kind of webby stuff over him Not that I recall I don't think so that's the one thing I've been trying to figure out Because my my meat has to be safe to eat like it's It doesn't smell bad when I cook it and it tastes completely normal But I just can't get over the visuals I saw yeah when I was cutting that thing and there was just Black stuff all over the inside of him and his liver was anyway That's a different story But I wanted to ask you when you you said you got an infected buck because I haven't been able to find anyone who can really give me a Straight answer who's done it before well one thing I would like to think about in your instance Obviously, I don't know because I didn't see that deer but You think about it when you get an infection when a human gets an infection and it spreads it spreads through the bloodstream Yeah, so You're reticly when you kill an animal you're empty the blood out of yeah, so you probably emptied most of that infection out of him Yeah, harvested him and then cooking it off hill Should be fine. That's the way I think about it That's and that's how I've been thinking I still don't know if I'll feed it to my kids But you know, yeah, that's fair when we butchered it the meat looked Better than my dear. I went back and forth so many times and even over the last few months or you know More than a few months now since I've killed him I've gone back and forth a lot on what I'm doing with them But anyway, most of them still in my freezer What's your you know, we're talking about all these cool sets you found what's like your proudest set or even just your proudest antler but Probably well My proudest set that I've been part of not that I even found was probably the set that my best friend found this year it was giant set Off of a bowl that I actually have a shed off of oh, which is insane because it was a Big trip in an area that like was pretty much new to us like we never touched this set of canyons Like you left the coast. Yeah, we were we were way over there. We were we found a moosh shed So I'll kind of like give you an idea where we were but so He found this set and it's like a 360 set and like Man, it's just huge and the effort that it took to even get there was insane the effort It took for us to get out of there was insane and the fact that it was Another year off of what is actually my biggest shed Like score wise. He's like a 340 bowl when I picked him up 335 something like that and then For my best friend to pick up his biggest set and it just happens to be the same bowl by some Miracle that's crazy. I mean, it's just and he survived all that time too. He was the other thing That was like three years ago. Yeah, I found my side and then he's just living up there. Yeah I mean in in the nastiest country you can imagine man. Yeah lifts and just Narlie stuff if you ever drew out there would you hunt it or is it too crazy? Nothing's too crazy. Yeah All hunt anywhere. Well, you're gonna have to dig me out of that candy maybe but yeah That's awesome. I'll never drop it. No, just I don't put in enough points towards it You know, yeah, you'd have to save up those points and I'd rather have more opportunity and that's kind of where a lot of us are at as young guys Yeah, I mean unless you had a parent who has been putting in for you since you were What's the minimum age you can even do that 12 then like and then you're gonna be lucky to go in your 40s You know like for us. It's for we we're not the generation that gets to do that, you know Especially when like there's other hunts that take way less points if you're willing to go to another state Yeah, it's just it's good. I think there's I've heard from many people that like our big three here in Oregon Yep does not stack up to you know your average seven point draw in Wyoming or you really or or wow or Zona, you know, that's crazy Mexico new Mexico. It's crazy I've heard that I've heard new Mexico's nuts and it doesn't take that much to draw I've been watching If you guys heard of elk shape, you know who that is. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. If you watch like a lot of his stuff He walks you through how to like draw these good tags and everything and you watch his hunts like he goes on these crazy hunts And he's a giant rut fest every year man and he just has it down back It's it's hard to imagine like when you say new Mexico. I'm immediately thinking desert, you know, and yeah Man, that's me. I feel like it'd be a learning curve. Yeah, you know. Oh, yeah, everything is but yeah, it's the fun of it, right? Exactly. Yeah, that's cool. So what's the furthest you've traveled for sheds? Wyoming Wyoming. Yeah, we went to Wyoming So was that in scouting for a hunt you want to do or just you just shed hunt? No, we actually went over there for The Jackson Hole shed run that was heard about that. Yeah, it was the last year that they allowed Non-residents to participate at the same time as residents So now it's like it's either a week or two weeks pushback, but their shed opener is May 1st And I think now non-residents can't go until like the 8th or something like that And I think a lot of people listening might Especially from Oregon might not even have a context to a shed opener Yeah, and that's because sheds drop in these wintering areas and if you have A hundred guys are more going in there throughout the shed season Bump in the elk pushing them off the feed. They could even cause the cows to lose their pregnancies and stuff from the stress And so they they say no shed hunting for these times until the elk are Mostly done in there then they open it. Yeah, and that's when the flood gates open And there's like a thousand guys going in there. I don't even know how many but you know a lot Like another thing to think about too. It's not just the wintering area Wintering areas it's statewide like the entire state of Wyoming Is close to shed hunting until May 1st. Oh, I didn't realize that yeah. Yeah. It's not just like Oregon has certain Winnering areas that are closed until a certain date, but the rest of the state is open. They're close to everything right? Yes, yeah, exactly. You're not supposed to go in there Which also I will say they don't enforce that very well because I went in on a Shed open the first time I ever went over east. I went to this wintering ground that I had found and I was super excited about And I went in there and all I found was boot tracks. There was boot tracks hold. Oh, yeah, it was there the day of the opener I was like the first one out of the truck. There was no one else there. Yeah, and there was boot tracks hold Yeah, picked out. Yeah, so But yeah, Wyoming was really cool I got to do that shed run with a bunch of different guys that I was friends with and we made a big trip and it was it was great Yeah, it was quite the experience. Yeah, that's cool Do you do you know anyone uses dogs for Sheds? Yeah No, no, I've heard of shed dogs. Yeah, I don't know anyone personally. I like follow some guys on Instagram and stuff that use dogs and they're pretty successful There's a couple guys here in Oregon that do it and then I've got a buddy up in Washington who's been trying to train his dogs to do it I don't know how well that's going He finds the biggest black tail shed I've ever seen. Oh, yeah, um, but I don't think he uses his dog at all. Oh, okay. Yeah Yeah, you know who does that's pretty well known as Scott Hogan. Yep. He has two Dogs that are they're actually his bird dogs and he trained them for finding shed so Gage just got a new pup that he's gonna be training up into a bird dog So maybe you gotta give him some of that shed smell. I know. Yeah, we're sitting here talking about it Yeah I know a guy. Yeah, I'm surprised it's not more of a thing though to use dogs. I mean seems like a great tool I don't know it is a great tool, but it's also One of those things that takes a lot of commitment a lot of training. I had a dog who I I didn't even think about it because frankly, I rarely let her do it with me, but But when she was a pup, I trained her to find sheds, or I tried to anyway. Sure. And she, in her lifetime of hiking with me, which up until she was about five, was most hikes that I went on. Oh, yeah. She found two sheds for me in her entire life. Wow. She found them both the same day. So, and she never found another one. But I will say one of the sheds that she found is the most unique blacktail shed I've ever found. Oh, really? It's this crazy looking fork and horn that's like a curly cue look too. Oh, yeah. He spirals off the end on the main. Yeah. Yeah. And like the time where it would be a fork is just leaned way forward. And he like curls all weird and then he's, it's, it's a crazy looking nutrient thing or something. Like, I think it's just genetics because I really, ironically, I found another year off of him and he did the same thing. It's the same thing. Yeah. It's crazy. Yeah. If you're listening to this and you have that buck, let us know. Yeah. Send us some pictures. Yeah. I don't know. He might still be alive, but he wasn't very big. So. Yeah. Yeah. So, my question on that is, did your dog ever find one that you would not have found? Yeah. Yeah. That curly cue one that I was just talking about. Yeah. I would never, I would not have found that shed. It was laying in a fern and she literally walked up to it and was sitting there sniffing it and I knew like she didn't bring me sheds. Like she would find them and she might even pick them up, but she never would bring them to me. She didn't really have that much interest. She just knew that she was trying to want to chew them. She just, yeah. No. Like, she would chew on them at home if I gave her one. Yeah. But out in the woods, she didn't care that much. She was just my buddy to hike around with, honestly. Yeah. But, uh, yeah. She, so she found that shed and she's sitting there sniffing it and she just kind of looked back at me. And I was like, what do you got? And so I went walking up there and I looked down and I was like, you found one. You actually did. I got all excited. That's awesome. Yeah. I mean, you want to reward that behavior like come on dog. Let's do it. That's what we want. Exactly. And she just kind of looked up and we were like, cool. Yeah. Just kind of like on my white shop there. Like, you got to keep your shoes. Yeah. Give you some jerky or something like, come on dog. Good job. Yeah. Yeah. She did great though. That's good. But one of the coolest things I've seen from you is the mousse shed. Yeah. Like in the snow. Yep. And that's just cool. Yeah. It was, that was on in Oregon. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, that's just not. I don't know. The concept of that. Yeah. That's cool. Some of the guys that I, so we actually ran into some guys up there and they were telling us that they've been up there for many, many, many years and they've never found one. They were locals. Yeah. Or maybe they had found one, but it was like, it was super, super rare. Yeah. And then on top of that, we found that really big mule deer shed too. And he's like, I'm never seeing a mule deer up here like this. Really? And then we have this 360 set. And he's like, dude, there's been guys driving around looking for that set for months. You know? So it was from that bowl. Yeah. One of those people. Yeah. You know, there's, there's bowls that are big enough that they're known. And so like, you know, I'm not sure if that bowl is really big. It's one of them, but there are bowls that like when you, when you win the governor's tag or something, they're called game spotters. Yeah. And they get a commission for telling your guide where that bowl is. Yeah. And so I don't know if that's that story or not, but it's, that's a, that's a thing that people do. And you get good commissions for it. Yeah. I don't know. And so that mousse shed, the story goes, we were hiking in originally we thought that the hike in was going to be about nine miles to our base camp, right, which is crazy. And we're getting an elevation the whole time. Yeah. And know what it was going to look like when we got up there, but we were just, we were all for it. We were going to go. So we ended up getting there. It was 12 miles by the time we were done. But so we walk up. And once we hit the very top, like the top top of where we wanted to be, it was snow. Now luckily the snow was packed down pretty good. So we were able to hike through it. But we're walking across this big bench, looking out to like these open faces. I say bench, it's pretty much a road. It's like the end of this old cat road. But anyway, we're walking across it. And out of my peripheral, I can see whatever this thing is poking up, but there's little pieces of brown grass poking up all over the place. I literally didn't even look at it. I could see, I remember seeing it in my peripheral and I didn't look at it. It was only sticking up. I'm not kidding. Maybe a half inch. Wow. It was more of like, you could kind of see some color of the snow. It was brown. Yeah. Right. Well, my buddy, he just happened to be walking exactly on the line to it. Uh huh. And then he like gets my attention. He's like, dude, you missed it. Yeah. Yeah, I did. Wow. And then I walked back over there and I'm looking at it. Like, everything's covered in snow except for a tip of one time and a little bit of the base. Yeah. And I'm like, it's not adding up in my head what it is. Yeah. Because I'm confused. Yeah. Or dear. That's it. That's all you're thinking about. Uh huh. And I'm like, this thing is too short to be an elk. Uh huh. At the same time, the base is huge. Like, that's got to be an elk. Yeah. Right. And I even set it in the video. I'm like, that's got to be an elk shed. Yeah. You have to be. Yeah. And he grabs it and I like, he pulls it out of the end of the like, the snow is packed into the spoon of this of this mousse shed. And I like, you can hear it in the video too. Yeah. It's so crazy. Like the stoke. It was like, oh, and then it was stoke. Yeah. Yeah. That's a loose. Yeah. Just lost my mind. And it's even funnier too. Because I stopped the video because I'm freaking out way too much. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. But he drops this shed and goes on a lap. Just running. Just like losing his mind. We're both freaking out. And then like, kind of collect ourselves a little bit and realize like, we had no idea what we'd actually done. We just never found a mousse shed. Like, that was crazy. Yep. And then come to find out there's like, maybe 50 mousse in this unit. If that. Yeah. Yeah. It's just the way this trip really stacked up was insane. So the first like two days, I didn't find it. Like I found a deer shed. And that was it. I was getting my butt wound. He had a mousse paddle. He had this giant milder shed. And then he picks up this 360 plus set. Yeah. And it's the set. Yeah. And I'm like, and I found the second side for him. Actually, it was funny. So he, we're sitting on this glassing point and he throws his binos up and he's like, got one 100% got one shed. Uh-huh. And I'm like, okay, where is it? And he like describes it to me and I look over and I'm like, oh yeah, there it is. You know, he ends up and he's like, he's up. Mine's, mine's, mine's, mine's down. And then I glass up and there's this big six point glowing in the sun. And I'm like, right by each other. Yeah. And it was great because even in my head, I was question, I'm like, man, you picked that like, it took me a second to really pick out that times up. Shad I'm surprised you were so like quick to just be like, oh yeah, got one, got one. And but then when I seen the one that he got stuff, I'm like, okay, yeah, makes a lot more sense. Yeah, that, that's just so cool. I've found a number of antlers over the years, you know, you just, they're, they're out there. But I've yet to find one where I'm able to find the other side next to it. Is that's pretty cool. I will say it definitely happens a lot more over on the side. Oh yeah. Just because you can see more, you know, on the coast, it's tough. Yeah. They don't drop side by side. I mean, I've got a six point that I looked for for years. I mean, I'm still kind of looking, but not really. It's been too long. It's under the leaves. They searched and searched and searched and I just, I never found it. Yeah. And I created like crazy and just never found it. Yeah. I got started thinking like, I don't do even drop them at the same time. Like I just never can make it happen. They do sometimes, but I swear, it's more rare over here. Yeah. Yeah. Well, we've been talking for a little while, loved it so far, but I, we got a couple more things we want to cover before the end. So first of all, we always try to talk about tips. So I wanted to get a few shed hunting tips from you. And as we've been talking, obviously, there's been quite a few hints and tips. Already just a part of the conversation. But one of the main things I wanted to ask about was like timing. Like when do you decide to go and big antlers fall in versus the forkeys? If that all happens at different times, what's kind of your philosophy on that? Man, that's, that's a tricky one because it really depends like so coastal bulls, your big bulls are going to shed first like that. And when I say big bulls, I mean your old bulls. The bulls that are, you know, eight, nine years old, those bulls are going to be the first to drop and they might not even make it to March. Like they might drop in February. I've seen that happen. But then you're like middle of the road bulls that are like three to five, three to six, you know, in that range, they're like from my experience, they almost hold on longer than like your little rag. And don't know why that is, but they just, I was told at one point that when these elk get through the road, they're like, "Oh, I'm going to go to the other side of the road." through elk deer doesn't matter. When they get through the rut, that testosterone starts to drop. Okay, and once they basically are too, like almost dormant in testosterone, that is when those antlers fall off, right? And that's timing just matches. So it kind of makes sense to me in my mind that these bulls that are the most dominant as far as like having cows and the healthiest and stuff like that, they're gonna have that high testosterone level. Yeah, they're gonna have higher than that big old bull that's been there for 10 years now, and he just doesn't quite have it in him like he used to. Yeah. So in my mind, it makes sense that these middle-age bulls are gonna hold on a lot longer 'cause they've got way more testosterone throughout the year than other bulls. Sure. Is this right? I don't really know. No, it definitely tracks. And like the research I've done, reading all the different studies and biologists things they post about deer and stuff, 'cause when my antlers popped off in my little buck, it made me wonder like what would happen? And it is the testosterone crash causes that joint there on the pedicle to calcify, and then it falls off. So basically that antler is alive on its head until the testosterone drops, then it calcifies and dies and falls off. Yep. Exactly. Like I'm sure you've found dead heads before where you could pull with all your strength. Yeah, I mean, come on off. It's never ever gonna come off. Because it's still fused together one. It's not just like it grew off of a bone and it's like two things glued together. Like it is the same bone as the head. And it's crazy too, 'cause you can like see the joint, but it's just, it's not. It's not, it's not. What you think. Yeah. Even if you try to break it, you're gonna break something else. It's not gonna break on that scene. Yeah, that's not where it's gonna break. It's pretty well. It's not breaking the skull. Yeah. Some instances, yeah. Yeah. I have found that elk seem to be more predictable about when they're gonna drop though than deer. Deer to me are kind of a mystery when they're gonna drop. I don't know what, like I still think the same science is true. I just don't know. It seems like these small forkies and the spikes are gonna drop at the same time as these giant old bucks. And like they're gonna shed within a three week increment versus like these bulls, you know, start dropping in late February and there'll be bulls. I, when we were over in Wyoming, we saw bulls packing in May. Yeah. Wow. And that's late. That's crazy. Yeah. That's crazy late. That's like the antler should be growing back in under it. That's right. But when we saw six points that were in full, you know, velvet at that point, but man, it seems like that's almost like a cactus buck situation. That's crazy. Yeah. Exactly. Wow. Crazy. So another tip question I'd like to ask is what are some of your terrain features you look for? Little hot spots. So easiest way to say it is for blacktail. I look for big old growth timber. It's kind of sparse on the forest floor. Meadows are great. Dear love meadows. I don't usually find the sheds in the meadows, of course, because it would be too easy. But the big timber around it is always a hot spot. Especially if you can find those spots where it benches out. Because you know, your way up, it's going to be steep. It's going to be gnarly. But there's going to be flat spots. If you can find those flat spots, usually that's where they're going to be. And then Roosevelt's-- well, OK, I guess in general, but Roosevelt's definitely-- they really, really like that green grass. So on the coast, the marshes are the ticket. They are always in around those marshes, in the cuts next to the marshes. There's just more water there. So there's more green grass. Yeah. That's the way that I think about it. And it usually works. Yeah. But they really like those marshes, man. Especially the big old bulls. They're going to dive into the nasty swamp you can imagine. And they're going to live there. Yeah. And then over on the east side, just-- I mean, it's pretty simple. Find some big gnarly canyon that's hard to get to and look for the green grass on the open hill sides. And there's usually a shed near it. Yeah. I mean, that makes me wonder, do the antlers drop randomly as they're living their life? Just look for where the deer live and you'll find sheds. Or do they go to shed-dropping places in the winter? Yeah. I don't think it's like they go to shed-dropping places because I'll find them like this last year when I went up there with that buddy of mine, Jeb. And he found that big four-point. That spot where he found that shed-- I was in there the year before, and it was a dead zone. They just weren't there. Yeah. They were further around the hill. And I found a couple nice bucksheds around the hill from that. But that spot where I took him, they were not there. And so we actually started where the deer weren't. Basically just trying to fill them out. Where are they on this hillside this year? And we started on the spot where they weren't. And we worked all the way around, and then we found them. So I mean, I think it changes year to year just depending on their mood or something. I don't know. Sure. But I don't think they're going to like-- OK, I shed right here on this bench last year. I'm going to go shed in the same bench. Yeah. Yeah. I don't think it's like that. Do you think-- because the way my brain thinks about it is they'll drop them where they're going to spend the most amount of time. Yeah, sir. So betting areas-- I've also heard that-- actually, Bryant taught me this is over little creeks. When they jump, if they're loose-- Pop right off. Yep, fence crossing, stuff like that. OK. Yeah. John, I don't know. I mean, I don't know if I taught you that, but I might have said it as a theory. It seems like when they would jump and hit the ground, you know, shake them off. Yeah. And when you train your mind to think about that type of stuff and think about things in that way, it goes a long way. Like, you're going to take the-- if you're looking at two trails going between two betting areas and you're looking for sheds, you're going to look at the one that has the most amount of sign. You're going to follow that one. And you just get into that zone. Because you never know where they're going to actually drop. You can go through-- I went through 15 beds when I was with Jeb, and you found that brown way down in the bottom. Yeah. And there was no shed there. There was rubs all over the place. I've never found a shed under a rub from the deer that made that rub. Wow. So that makes sense. Yeah. But it's just a matter of where they are when it falls off. Yeah. So you want to spend your time where they're spending their most amount. Because I think one of the misnomers that might be true or might not be true is that they rub their antlers off. Because for the most part, their antlers just pop off when they pop off. It's not like they're trying to hit them off or something. I will say I've seen this a lot with bowls. I call it itchy. So the way I think about it is when a kid has a loose tooth, they're going to sit there and play with it and play with it and play with it. And that comes off. It comes out. Excuse me. And so I've seen bowls. They do what you call the shed dance. And they're just like-- Yeah. They're tilting their head just a certain way. And they're kind of running. And you can see them shaking to do something. I don't think they're literally trying to knock it off. But I think it's literally itchy. So they're just messing with it, trying to get it to fall off. Makes a lot of sense. Yeah, it's kind of like a scab when we're a kid. You're like, God, I can't help but play itchy. Yeah. Exactly. I've got some videos of bowls too that I thought we're going to drop. And so I was videoing them and doing all this crazy stuff. And that just didn't-- Just wasn't the day. It's a funny dance they do. I've seen videos. Have you ever gotten video on trail camera or sitting there watching them with them actually popping it off? No. That's one of my bucket list items. I had a bowl a couple years ago that I-- so it was four bowls. All of them were five points. Three of them were really big five points. And I've seen them in this field. I went up above in the public. And one of them had dropped. So I'm going to go grid this out real quick, see if he's up there. Well, they ended up being there. I don't know how they beat me there, because I was there in 20 minutes. And they had moved half a mile. But anyway, so I dropped down in, see these bowls. They run off the hill. I hear this bowl's antler fall off his head. I heard a loud thong. And I was like, oh, man. It sounded like an antler. Oh, man. And so luckily, I wound-- So he probably knocked it off on something. I think what happened was-- because they knew I was there. And they just kind of trotted off. And I didn't want to pursue them, because that's the right thing to do. So I backed out, made a big loop around the up top looking again. And then I just dropped back down and followed his tracks, and sure enough, it was like 50 yards. Like, if that, it was so close. And I just didn't see it. It's all pink on the bottom. Oh, yeah. It was so bloody. Yeah. It was really bloody. Yeah. Interesting. He had like this almost gelatin type stuff on it. It was-- How did it taste? It was like a little salty. [LAUGHTER] Wow. It made like a noise. Like, yeah, I think there was a tree that was kind of leaning at like a 30 degree angle. And I think he went to duck under it, and he just clipped it and knocked it off. Like, there was no broken bone or anything on it. It was ready to fall off. It just-- that last little push. Oh, it's sending it off, yeah. Crazy. That was a string cue or two thing. Yep. Yep. That little-- It was ready. You just-- - Yeah, it's a nice suction sound. - Yeah, it's a nice suction sound. - Yeah, that's good. Man, well, thank you so much so far for the conversation. It's been really great. Enjoyed talking with you. - And we always end the show with what we call a real talk. And the question we always ask our guests is what's your spiritual connection to your life in the outdoors? I'd like to hear what we have to say about that. - So we kind of talked about this beforehand, but I was raised Christian by my godmother. You call her, but I mean, it wasn't strict by any means I'd never gave myself over to Christ or anything like that. But I am a very spiritual person. I definitely believe there is something out there and I just have not hammered down exactly what I believe yet. But I do have a story that I would like to share from a recent shet hunt that I had where we found the moose paddle and all that stuff. - Oh yeah, yeah. - And it was a pretty powerful moment for me and it's definitely made me think about things a little differently. So that the last day that we were there, it was Saturday, originally we planned on hiking out Sunday and then driving home. That was, I ended up glassing up a bunch of sheds down in this nasty bottom. And it would in my mind be easier to hike out to the truck than hike all the way back up to our camp, break down and leave. So me and Gabe split up. He was bombing straight down to the truck and I was going down to pick up all my sheds and then I was gonna meet him there eventually whenever I got out. I didn't think it was gonna be as late as it was, but. So, end up going down and bit off a lot more than I could chew. I ended up finding 12 antlers on that hike, all the elk antlers. I had to leave five by the time that I had picked up all my antlers and I was at the same level. Well, I didn't pick up all of them. I found more on the way out, but by the time I was on the level of where our camp was, which was 12 miles deep on the top and I'm now on the bottom trying to loop my way around the bottom which is gonna be longer. I was already at eight miles. So I was looking at it like minimally, or a 20 mile hike out in the dark for the most part. So, it's almost not physically possible. It was too much. Like I've been off a lot more than I could chew. But so I've got, I basically long story short after I found more sheds along the way. I stashed those sheds. I ended up, I got some hate over this, but I had to stash my camp 'cause I just couldn't carry it. So I was like bare minimum essentials, browns are coming out, nothing else. Yeah. So I left my camp and those sheds in a certain spot which I do plan on going and getting anyway. So hiking out and trying to find this throw hit that is just not existing. It says it's on the map. It's not there. I cannot find it. And my phone is at 2% or 4% one of the, it was basically dead. Yeah, I didn't even have my tracker on at this point. And it's getting dark. And I'm in really cliffy, nasty canyon that I am having a lot of trouble navigating. My pack was like 70 pounds. Wow. So I got to a point. There's this ridge. The way these ridges roll over, they go into the steep little creek run-offs. And then they'll go right back up the other side. Yep. Some of these really steep creek run-offs, they get cliffy, right? And there's like, you have to be careful on how you get through them. So at this point, I've dropped down to the creek and come back up and drop down and come back up. And I'm spent. I'm so exhausted because I cannot find a good path through. And I'm like 14 miles in and I got so far left to go. And it's like right on the break of dark. And so I took my pack off. I walked down to this creek bottom, like scaling along this cliff. And I'm like, if the trailhead is right here, which it's supposed to be, or it should have been, I should have been on it the whole time. But it's not here. But if it happens to be right here, I'll keep going. But if not, I've got to stop. Yeah. So I walked down this creek bottom and it's a brushy nasty mess. And there's nothing there. Oh my goodness. OK. So I go back to my pack and I sit down and I like kind of try to like, OK, this is what we're doing. We're staying here for the night. Yeah. Can't risk trying to get through another cliff like this. You can make it through this one. But I don't know what the next one's going to look like. I don't know if I can make that. I can't risk that. Yeah. So I sit down and then my anxiety kicks in. And I'm feeling sick to my stomach. And I'm just like, man, I don't know what I'm going to do. Like this is the stories that you hear about when people don't make it off the mountain. Like, yeah, I'm really, really deep. Like, yeah, they know where I am. But it's going to get cold in the night. I don't have my camping gear. I don't know what to do. My phone's almost dead. So-- And then I kind of had like this moment where I remember what my dad said to me when I was a little kid. I used to go out and stuff. And he was like, if you ever get lost, just sit down. Like, it does not matter where you think you are. If you're lost, sit down. We'll come find you. Someone will come find you. If you keep going, you're going to get yourself more lost. And in that moment, I am not lost. I know exactly where I need to go. I just don't think I can make it. And then so I was like, I don't usually-- I have to see something or have one of those spiritual moments to talk to a higher power. But in this moment, I rarely ask for strength or anything like that. But I literally-- I was like, man, I really don't need much. I don't need more strength. All I need is a trailhead. Just please-- if I just need the trailhead, I just need a little bit, man. Like, I don't need much, just a little bit. And I didn't even really know who I was talking to. And I was like, I know I can't sit here anymore. Hey, I feel sick to my stomach. I might not make it through the night. It's too cold. I didn't want to think that way. But I knew that was a possibility. Yeah. So I stood up and put my pack back on. And I hiked down into that bottom. And now it's dark and completely dark. I do have a flashlight. By the grace of God, again, I just happened to have one in my pack. And I pull my flashlight out. And I go along this cliff. I get into this creek bottom. And I find just this little tiny path to get through it. And as soon as I do, and I pop out of the trees out of that creek bottom, the grass there is about up to your knees on those hillsides. And so when you hit it with the light, like it shines, right? But when I put my light up, there was just this perfect shadow of a path cast out in front of me. That just literally was the trailhead. Wow. It was the trailhead that I had been searching for. Yeah. And I had just stopped like 60 yards ago, because I could not-- I didn't think I could make it. I didn't know what I was going to do. I had no hope. I was-- I was done. All right. I had nothing left. Yeah. And then I almost broke down. Like I was like, oh my gosh. Yeah. I don't know what's going on here, but there's someone watching me right now. Yeah. I rarely ask for anything, because I don't think-- I'm not religious, but I don't think that you should always be asking. You should be appreciative. You know what I mean? I do know there's something out there, but I don't think he wants to just hear when you want strength, if that makes sense. I try to just show appreciation. So the one time that I can remember in recent history where I really asked for something-- Yeah. And it was right there. Yeah. It was just like stowed upon me. Here's the path. And it's-- Wow. Clear and easy to see. And then from there, like-- I'm going to say it was smooth sailing, because it's still sucked. Like my pack was still 70 pounds. And I still-- Yeah. 10 plus miles to get out. Yeah. And get air lifted out. Yeah. Yeah. I had hope. Yeah. Like it was like, oh my-- I made it. Like at this point, I know I'm going to make it out. Yeah. Anybody can follow this path, even if I can't make it. Yeah. You can find me. And so yeah, I ended up getting out that night at midnight. I started my hike out at 7 o'clock that morning to drop down and go get my sheds. And I didn't get back to the truck until midnight. Wow. So it was a very powerful experience for me that absolutely-- And all my videos and stuff, I can't capture-- I did not do a good job of capturing how much that moment-- that whole push out really was like, because it was just like-- It was a journey, like. Yeah. One of those things where like you push your body to the absolute limits, you push your mind to the absolute limits. Yeah. I literally gave up and had nothing left. And then asked for one thing, and there it is. Yeah. So many times like that's we were in a place where we are at our limit. Like we have nothing left. You know, that's where God meets us. Like, you know, whether that's for us outdoors, man, that context is like the woods. You know, like we get out there and we push ourselves further than we probably should sometimes. Oh, absolutely. Further than we can really go. And then all of a sudden, we're like, oh, Lord, I need you right now. I need to get back home to my family, you know. But even just, like sometimes life sucks and we go through just tough things. And, you know, for me, I know that I've been through things in life that I wouldn't be able to go through without God pulling me through it or guiding me, leading me. But, you know, man, super, super cool to hear that story, that experience that I mean, how many times do we reach out, you know, to God? Yeah. And for you to have that experience of you reached out, you know, and suddenly you noticed, oh, he's there. Yeah. Yeah. And it was a hopeful encounter. It was a positive encounter. It was, you know, like, like I need you and he came through on that. Yeah. So that's that's amazing. And my encouragement for you or for anyone listening is just keep reaching out and keep, keep seeking him. And, you know, because, because Jesus is a gentleman. And he's he's, you know, scripture says he stands at the door and knocks. And he's not, he doesn't have a, what are those things the SWAT teams have? We're there breaking down the door. Yeah. He's not trying to get into your life and into your heart with a with a rammer and breaking the doors open and saying, I'm here. Yeah. Love me. You know, it's, he just stands at the door at knock and knocks and it's up to us to open that door. And, you know, that's that's in a small part. What you did up there is you opened the door. You said, you know, whatever specific way you asked, ultimately, it's one of those things where I don't really pray often. I don't talk to you often, Lord, but I need you in this moment. And there he was. So, you know, that that's super amazing to hear. Thank you for being transparent to and sharing that experience with us. Yeah. Yeah. It was, it was a very powerful moment. Yeah. I'm glad I was able to share it with someone. Yeah. Yeah. Well, like I said, my encouragement for you is to just keep seeking, keep seeking and find out, find out who he is. You know, yeah. That's a really cool story. And also, I was sitting here thinking I'm like, you know, a lot of people have those, the not that specific type of a story, but where they're they're broken and they reach out. And rarely is it a story about actually finding a path. Yeah. Because Jesus talked a lot about the narrow path, right? Yeah. Yeah. So, you literally found the path, right? Yeah. Yeah. I love that. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And I, I mean, I went through a lot of stuff when I was a kid. I don't talk about it a lot, but I went through a lot when I was a kid. And it did not. I turned away from God. Yeah. When all of that happened, and I went down a really bad path. And you know, like, um, and I came back, but I always like, as I've gotten older, I've gotten more, like I see the way things worked out and feeling like there is some type of plan being played upon me, because things don't make sense any other way. Like this happened. So this happened. So this happened. And then yeah, all of a sudden, I've got a beautiful wife and two wonderful kids. And, and I'm, you know, I'm living the life that I only dreamed of and and still getting better. And it's just like, I regret the way that I lived when I was a kid. Um, and I look now and like, I look more inward and more spiritually and everything like that. So yeah, it was pretty crazy. I have a moment like that. Absolutely. Kind of like. Okay, there's something more going on here. I think you need to look a little closer, you know, so I have been looking closer. I'm just not quite there. Sure. If that makes sense. Yeah. Yeah, it was a crazy experience. Love it. God has a path for all of us. You know, that's been a parent kind of as I get older and mature. There's obviously things that I regret too. Kind of like what you're saying. And yeah, and I think it just all goes to show like it's truly God's path for us. We're not, we're the men we are now because of of the experiences we've gone through. Yeah. And, you know, for it from the Christian mindset, it's it's it's Christ guiding us through that path. Yeah. Yeah. So thank you for sharing. That's that's a really awesome story. Yeah. Hey, uh, if anyone listening wants to know more about what you do and keep track of your crazy adventures, where can they find you? Uh, so I've got my Instagram is Black Horn Outdoors. My YouTube is also BlackHornoutDores. I have a Facebook, you want to reach out to me there I'm not extremely active on that as much, but I am on there to the same thing BlackHornoutDores. Yeah, and I'm hoping to get a lot more hunting content out this year. I don't have that many hunting videos, but I'm trying to talk to Kaira. Yeah, it is hard. Hunting is hard, recording hunting is harder. Hey, well thanks dude for your time. I thank you. Super great conversation, loved it. You're a great interview, so yeah. Thank you Tyson. Yeah, I appreciate it. I had a lot of fun guys. Great. Well, talk to you later. Thanks for listening. All right, bye bye. [Music]