Shea Charles to Fulham, Colchester Reaction & Watford Preview | TSP 385

This podcast is proud to be part of the TalkSport fan network TalkSport powered by fans. Hello, good evening. Welcome along to the Total Saints podcast weekly home for all things Southampton football club. This week on the podcast, Shay Charles to Fudham looks to be done. So we'll get the latest on that. Saints are through to the next round of the Carrabile Cup after that 2-0 win at Colchester. So we'll take a look back over the game. And the season starts for real on Sunday lunchtime. Saints visit Watford for the season opener. So we'll preview the game with the help of Peter from the Watford podcast. Do not scratch your eyes. Now, TSP is proudly sponsored by our community of Total Saints who support us each month through Patreon. And we couldn't make this show each week without their support. We've had 20 new members this week. So I'm massive. Thank you to all of them. I've got the roll call here. We're going to split the names up. So a big thank you to Paul Spooner, Dean Robertson, Sachsendale 76 ACC, Ian Javes, David Pike and Scott. Also thanks to Rob Bucken, Heelass, Paul Williams and White Adrian, Peter Asquieu, Neil Langege and Tommy. And finally, I love this one. Alpha Vermeu, Paul Bowel, Neil David, Joe Ferret, David Simmons, Tim TJ and Hugh. Brilliant. Thank you very much. If you have signed up this week, really do appreciate your support. There's plenty to get involved in on Patreon too. So check out the homepage. You can join the WhatsApp chat and you can use your login for the Patreon predictions league, which we run throughout the season on the Total Saints website. Well, I've more about that a little bit later on. So my name is Martin Slug. I'm joined by Steve Grant, who's the owner of Saints Web. Glendalacore is writer of the blog league one minus 10 and Dan Hargraves is the new Southampton reporter at the Daily Echo. Don't forget if you like to get in touch, you can drop us an email. There's always it's hello at total saints.co.uk. Welcome. Dan, first of all, thank you for joining us. You're going to be with us in for Alfie for the next couple of weeks. It's been a bit of a whirlwind, I guess, doesn't it for you? Cause you were straight into the job and then off to Germany and then the game starting yesterday. Have you found it all so far? I've loved it. It's been brilliant, but yeah, definitely a busy busy start, especially with with Alfie having other commitments elsewhere. So yeah, no, it's been great. I think it's been a month now and already we've interviewed Tundrahan for the times, gone to Germany to watch pre-Series and interview some players. And obviously the first game yesterday. So yeah, definitely came in at a busy time. And how was Germany? Were they kind of like quite hospitable and welcoming and everybody keen to chat and really positive? Yeah, I think so. I had a great time and I think it was good for them as well. I can't imagine it's been easy to have everything that happened at the end of last season kind of stew in the background over the summer. I think they kind of wanted to speak out and kind of set the record straight. I certainly think Eckett felt that way. You know, multiple occasions now he's kind of talked about how he was painted out in this sort of villainous character over the summer and in mainstream media and saying obviously that's, you know, far from the truth of how he really is. So I think he wanted to kind of set the record straight. The players obviously wanted to chat and kind of send out that message that they're going out to win the league this year. After the disappointment of last season. So yeah, they were great. You know, got to watch a bit of training, interview a handful of players. Did the behind closed goal doors game at Winston, not the not the paddball one. So yeah, no, it was a great couple days. Brilliant. Well, we're looking forward to having you on throughout the season going to start with you actually as well because there's some breaking transfer news this afternoon. It looks like full of have agreed that deal to sign shade Charles. We thought this was going to be the case. It been in the offing for a while. What's the latest on that down? I seem reports are about 30 million. Is that true? Yeah, it is looking like 26 million with four in add-ons. That's what the athletic reported earlier today's. Oh, dear. That must have been a secret someone's coming off. Thanks for joining us, Dan. Good bit of business though. Glenn in all honesty. I saw someone say, well, you know, it's a good price for someone that's not even in our starting 11. But he's more important than that when you look back at last season. It's a hell of a good player that's full of forgetting. The start and 11 thing. I think traditionally people look at the start and 11, but it's not about that these days as a modern for poetry. You know, when you got the five subs. That rule that we ever once got now it's, you know, it's what can what can they produce in the time they're on the pitch, wherever they start the game or wherever they finish the game. So with show kind of new it was inevitable that he was going to go. So it's not really upsetting in any way. Shape or form that he's gone. Everyone's had enough time to get used to the fact that he was going 30 million on the face of it. If the add-ons are achievable, which you would assume they are. It's not contingent on following one of the Champions League or anything stupid like that. You know, it's great business. I assume we are managed to see a chunk of that perhaps. Don't know. 35% of profit I think it was. Yeah, so we've signed in for 10. We've sold in for 30. That's kind of our model, isn't it? With, you know, when you sign young players and it's worked here in the same way that it worked with Romeo Lavier. We signed for Manchester City as well. Not so well for Bizzuna and Adozi who are not going to move for 30 million. But yeah, I mean, we've got to be happy with that. The goals he scored last year were very eye catching. If you posted our top 10 goals for last year, he'd probably be four or five of them. Yeah, it's true. You know, it's so, I mean, I've taught me Ed. What's it? Lestra Wayox for that home, Arsenal at home was the huge one that probably made everyone sit up and take notice. I still believe that even in these days of loads of analysis being done, if you score a goal in a high profile game, it is certainly going to help your cause because people will say, "Okay." You can do something against Arsenal. It's not just playing against Oxford for Friday and it's safe. So, yeah, I mean, on the face of it, it's good business, but we do have to replace him as we do with Ross Stewart. The two of those were players that played a lot of minutes in the second half of last season during our unbeaten run. And yeah, and as I said at the start, it's all about having the squad to be able to swap players in and out as the situation demands it. So, I imagine it will signal the whole transfer market thing with, say, speeding up a little bit now and there will be a few more things happening, obviously. And obviously you've got the league season starting next week. Yeah, so it should be fun times hitting F5 on the computer a few times to see what's occurring. So, yeah, I think good business around, a bit of good player, a bit of good character. And yeah, we'll see. Good luck to him. It's a full-on. It's a decent club to be joining, I think, at this stage of his career. And he was an unused sub yesterday, Steve, but he got to say he's goodbyes at the end, which was kind of nice. And now we see it a lot down when we've been players move on, but that was definitely the moment after the final whistle. Yeah, it's good to see. I mean, I'm from a purely sort of footballing perspective. What was the point in putting, naming them on the bench? That was a complete waste of a subspace because you're never going to play him when you've got a transfer that's 24 hours from being signed and sealed. And why would you jeopardize jeopardize it all by even making warm up? Because he could easily have torn something in the warm up for, for a win you. So, I mean, you could easily have just had him sat amongst, sat amongst everybody, but not named as a substitute. And he'd still been able to do all of this. So it's that felt slightly odd. And because clearly you're never, he's never going to play a minute, even if both fling down and whoever was playing alongside him at any, at any point, obviously, Matt's key first half, brag later on in the second. Even if both of those went down, you probably weren't going to kind of call on call on, show you to come and play for 20 minutes, half an hour or whatever. So I agree, good to, good to let him have that, that send off so many players that we sell, obviously go in the summer and we don't, you then don't get an opportunity unless, unless it's kind of already signed and sealed before the end of the season. You never, there's never any certainty of these things, whereas I think yesterday, I think everybody kind of knew it was, it was going to happen. Just a matter of, just a matter of time. So yeah, why not giving given that opportunity. And I know you kind of mentioned this last week, Glen, but Bragg's name obviously comes up as a potential replacement, but I know you were someone mentioned in the comments actually, you were kind of saying last week that, down some Bragg are both the six is it's that eight where we might need to, to look at bringing someone else in. Yeah, I mean, like with Stuart, Charles contributed a few important goals last season, with the best one in the world, Cam Bragg and Flynn Downs, as a pairing are not really going to deliver those goals. Though I wasn't coverage yesterday, you know, when the two of them played together when Bragg came on, it looked pretty good. So, but yeah, I do think we need to look for a number eight type of player who can get forward and be a bit of a goal threat on occasions. You know, Caspar Yanda needs to add a bit of that to his game as well. I mean, we're hearing he's not too far away from being fully fit, but you can see how you can suddenly find yourself a bit short with a couple of injuries. And I mean, obviously you can't, you know, you can't have a massive squad, so you never have any sort of issues with, you know, with players not being available, but no, I do think there's a bit of a hole there at the moment and with, with, with, Charles, going, I mean, and he, you know, if this had been the last game of last season, he would have started the game, wouldn't he? He would have started the game along, alongside Flynn Downs. So they, yeah, they certainly need to do something in that position. I mean, even if it's, you know, I mean, you could have Joe Abram, which Marsh could be, you know, this season's Can Brack, he, maybe he comes through and plays that role. I don't know, I don't know enough about him, but you would have imagined that they need another player to come in. So certainly before Flynn gets his first five yellow cards, because that's going to happen as well. I'm sure we'll have a few suspensions and things across the way. Let's talk about that game yesterday then. Stank's booking their spot in the second round of the Carrabale Cup after that 2-0 winner at Colchester. Steve you were there yesterday. It was a bit labor. That first half wasn't it, to be honest. We said this might be like the last of the, the preseason friendlies and it, it certainly felt like that for about 50 minutes. It was very similar to that to the game in Munster last week, actually, where first half we, like we had most of the ball, but we were kind of farming it wide without any real sort of intent as such. C&D and Fellows were both fairly willing, but it wasn't like we had players kind of throwing themselves at crosses into the box or, and we weren't really moving it with any great sort of pace or purpose. So it was a little bit frustrating, but second half we were a lot better at that and it did kind of feel second half that it was kind of a matter of time. I mean you get one and you're probably going to see that game out, I think, against, against that level of opposition, but we still left the door slightly a jar at the back. So I mean, defensively we've, as I said last week, we've not looked kind of completely impervious at the back despite the fact that we've not really played anybody of any sort of huge pedigree. So that would be a slight concern. You kind of hope that once Caspianna is back and Flindowns can kind of get back to doing what he does best without having to kind of think about maybe playing part of the sort of other midfield role as well, that that will tighten up a little bit and naturally will be will be a lot more solid. But yeah, it is a little bit of a concern that we seem to be quite slow in starting games and you can bet anything you like that other teams will have been watching these games and will have noticed. So yeah, something to work on, but we need to have a proper set forward playing up there. I mean, in fairness to Bro and D. As he was, it wasn't like he wasn't put in the effort in, the effort was absolutely there, but that's not his position. He's not a, he's not an out and out center forward. You play him either just off one side or the other and that's that's kind of his role. And we were asking him to do something else and we didn't give him any service apart from I think one cross that C. Ends are put into the box that was just over him. So yeah, a little bit frustrating, but also unfortunate on his part, but we do need other options in that position. Do you think that was his chance yesterday because they said that he would give him a bit of a chance, and he'd be the involved, and he would get minutes. And do you think that that's kind of it now? And they look to ship him out as soon as they can. Well, not until we've got one or two others in, I would say. I mean, Laren isn't going to be able to play 90 minutes every game. We saw this back in the last season that actually having two players that can't do 90 minutes, but one of players that central striker would absolutely perfectly for us because they both knew they were going to get plenty of game time and we got plenty of goals out of both of them. Obviously we're sure having gone. We now need to fill that gap. And it sounds like we might be doing the deal for this kid from Manchester City, which the ladder looks really promising, but do we possibly need to also look at someone with a little bit more experience, someone who's been there and done it already? Who knows? I think I would like the, personally, I would like a bit more certainty, but ultimately the way we probably would have had that would have been giving Rochcia what he wanted. And I think ultimately the club probably fair enough in not giving him a three-year deal, given that he only managed to play the equivalent of 18 games in three years. Yeah, previously. So yeah, we're in a kind of tough position really because you'd like to thought that we would have had that situation sorted very early and maybe the whole everything like this contract kicking off like a weird time with obviously with all the club, with that clause coming in and nobody really knowing what was going on certainly publicly anyway. Maybe the club took their eye off the ball in terms of actually bringing another center forward in. And now you're kind of scrambling around because most of the obvious signings have probably already been made, I would guess. So yeah, you're then kind of waiting around for scraps from the Premier League to see what's your best option. It was good to see Finn as back in his groove, though, Glenn. We were slightly worried about his injury. And then he's still just classed that ball through for the second goal. Yeah, incredible. Yeah, I mean, that's what he offers that other players don't. He's got that ability to get his head up and pick a pass and play the right weight of pass. And yes, when players are trying that sort of thing, they are going to give the ball away occasionally. And he does that the same as any player. If he didn't do that, he'd be playing in the Champions League for someone. But that that pass through the amount of times you see players overhit those or just pick out the defender and he's threaded it perfectly. And Ramio Ackichuk, who's done the West, brilliant finish, really, really composed finish, really nice goal. So yeah, Finn has come in back, made a huge difference and echoing what's already been said. He was helped by having a proper set forward on the pitch at the time that he was on the pitch because Larrym was threatening the defence the whole time. The defence was dropping off because he was always making the right runs. There was about three or four crosses that came into the box where Larrym was literally just on side to easy. That sort of movement makes defenders think and open up spaces for other people. So that's ideal. And that's Lewis Dobbins struggled a bit, I thought, in the first half, not helped by he gave the ball, he did give the ball away a hell of a lot. Well, he had a good play season, didn't he? But it was a different one. It's a different beast. Yeah, it is. And I don't think I'll be interested to see Lewis Dobbins with a proper set forward because whatever Brenver and Diaz is a stable side, he hasn't got the football IQ to play in a central position. He's a winger who, he's basically a winger who does the odd good thing when he's got space to run up people. That's it. Anything, any attempt to turn him into anything else is doing to failure because he doesn't have the, doesn't have the skill set to play against center-arves and defensive midfielders where it's all sort of closed in in the centre of the pitch. He just doesn't have the ability to do that. And the fact that he was picked ahead of Damien Downs, that to me says there's two players that need to leave really because if Tonda thinks he's a better option than Damien Downs, then Damien Downs is gone as we all kind of suspected he should be. So yeah, I mean the subset came on, Can Bragg, Finna's Ass, you'd be amazed if they didn't start and Carl Aaron, of course, fit this permitting, you'd be amazed if they didn't start against what foot. I think I saw Can Bragg was on for 28 minutes and completed 30 out of 30 passes. Yeah, I think one of the problems read in the first half was was masking in the centre midfield again being played out of position really. And even though we had lots of possession and that's to say we didn't really do much with it, it might seem to be very vulnerable when we lost the ball. All of the coaches are only 30% possession or whatever, but they like to write it more with that if sent than we did with our I have the percentages are entirely accurate but they force that triple saver, a parrots and that's decent, isn't it? Yeah, other incidents that could have ended in a goal and it just seemed to be when we turned the ball over. I think Flindown's played well actually, I thought he was getting about the park and doing his thing but there was just something a bit soft about the centrum in field and I'm not blaming Matzky for that, it's not his position, he's another one that for different reasons needs to play in the wider areas. So yeah, I think there were some sort of slightly sketchy parts of yesterday's game but I think you saw towards the end what the team will look more like going into the league season. Let's talk Steve about Akachukui because we always seem to have at this time of year there's always an under 21's player that really does well and impresses in preseason and I think back to last year with Jay Robinson and the start he had probably year before we tie little did we and there's always somebody that gets us excited and gets us off our seats and it'd be interesting to see whether he sticks around or whether they decide to send him out on loan. Yeah, I suspect ultimately the latter will probably happen just because I think we've got that white, those wide areas is somewhere where we do have a lot of senior experience. And if you think Cienzer and fellow started yesterday, Matzky wouldn't ordinarily play out there as well. I think Dobbin can probably play out there, Cameron Archer can play out there, Verita Diaz probably prefers to play out there than through the middle. I mean, obviously you would imagine at least two of those probably aren't going to be here to come September but they would certainly be ahead of him, if you were picking big game who are you going to go for? You're teenage youngster who's got what have 30 senior appearances on loan under his belt probably is going to be quite low down the picking order for that. But at the end of the day he's had an impact in these preseason games, he was excellent against E-Sleeve. Okay, yeah, it's E-Sleeve, they're fifth tier. Mum, you don't need only beat what's in front of you, scored a good goal and he scored a great goal yesterday. Made the run which at that time in the game, in injury time maybe senior players think, well, we're defending a one-neil lead, I'm not going to make that run. I'm going to play the sort of conservative option. So yeah, fair play doing, he bust a gut and got in behind the fall back and obviously relying on a Zaz playing the perfect weight of pass which he did. So yeah, cool and composed finish. Whether that translates to any more appearances, the next round of this is before the end of the transfer window. So maybe he gets another opportunity in the second round depending on who we get in the draw tomorrow night. But otherwise I would expect him to be out and alone. There's no point in him playing Premier League 2 games, I would say, for the next four, five months. And just speaking of that, I hear all that. I keep him around though. I'd love to see him stay around. I'd keep him around for the first half. Obviously, see where we are squadwised after the transfer window closes. There's always a player that comes through as you said, like Cam Bragg last season was nowhere. Another way. A little bit more seen. Maxke was nowhere. And then he came through and became a regular star. So with him and O'Brien Wittmarshall already mentioned, there is a possibility for these guys to come through. But I do understand that the likelihood is that they're not quite ready yet. And they would be best served career-wise going out online. But I remember Akachuq who played against Cardiff in a game in the Carabell when we won 5-2 or 5-3, whatever it was. And I think he was only on the pitch about 10 minutes and that one. And you saw him. Literally 30 seconds, I think. Yeah, he sort of burst through on the halfway line and got chopped down by someone. And it's just one of those things that made you sit up and take notice. And when you see a big powerful player who wants to run forward, even if it's only a little cameo before, which you think, there might be something there. So apparently he wasn't great in his Loans Bell at Colchester last year. He said the general consensus was that he wasn't fantastic. It was 18 game zero goals. So I don't know quite what happened there. But young players, they either fizzle out or they turn a corner. And it's like Cam Bragg, isn't it? He suddenly turned a corner and now he looks like a proper player, proper options he used in the championships. And the loan option for for Shay Charles, of course, because he spent a bit of time at shuffle Wednesday, didn't he? And then came back and was much better. So Steve, you mentioned that lad from Man City. I just want to just touch on that before we move on. This is the news about half six. I think you want it tonight that we might get a loan signing. We barmer is it? From Man City, 21 year old who was on loan at Stoke last season. Is that going to be the answer to our prayers? Would you think that someone has come in just to help out? Well, he got he got sent off against us for a dive. So that's both well. In fact, he played really well that day. He did look an absolute unit. He looked at absolute pest to set the backs. Although let's remember that first half of last season our defence was not the finest. But yeah, I mean, he scored a couple of goals and got the assist, I think, for City's first team in preseason. So he's been getting opportunities for them. It will be obviously half their squad have been in the World Cup. So always likely they're youngsters. We're going to we're going to feature fairly heavily. But again, you can only score against what's what's put in front of you. I mean, I think that is record that Stoke is kind of underwhelming really. He's got he got five goals in 20 starts. And two of those five were in the first two games of the season and the other three were a hat trick. So that's a lot of a lot of games where he's not scored. That would be that would be the only slight concern for me. He's inexperienced of course. But the only way you get experiences by playing and the kids clearly got, clearly got talent. It's a case of can you kind of step it up and do the kind of do the clinical thing and all the make sure you got the all the sort of mental aspects of your game in in sync to to put it all together. But I mean, if he's if he's kind of here as a sort of relief center forward for Carl Lauren, then he'll get he'll get opportunities. And frankly, I would expect if he's if he's half decent, he'll get a few starts as well. Do you think they're expecting Lauren to play a little bit more and someone did mention this in the comments. So he came in in January last year. He probably wasn't up to speed. You got there in the end, but they were kind of like managing his minutes. If he gets a decent sort of crack at it this time around, are we expecting a little bit more from him Steve? Um, yes, so I think so. Um, I mean, don't forget a lot. I mean, second half of the last season, as I say, was basically two strikers who couldn't who in their condition couldn't play 90 minutes or didn't seem to be able to play 90 minutes. But you could always get 60 and 30 out of them. And they both have both have very similar qualities and the results spoke themselves really that that that partnership worked, whether you whether you get the same sort of thing between Lauren, who's 3031 and a 21 year old kid with very little experience. I don't think you'll get the same kind of output and sort of partnership. I mean, not really a partnership. I didn't really play together, but that sort of way of operating that both, both of them are kind of quite happy with, um, with their sort of status in the team, if you like. Um, yeah, I don't, I don't know how, how that's how that's going to work. It might, it might work out perfectly. It may be, um, it may be a disaster. Who knows? Um, I would never, let's be honest, every signing is a risk. Um, there's some kind, there's some element of risk involved in, in signing anybody. So let's, I mean, let's see it. I, I personally would, as I say, would, would like some a bit more experience as well. Um, but I think, um, there's certainly a show, a show, a show that hold that needs filling before, before a second, um, incoming strike. That's fair. Um, I want to move on to the, the what for game. Anything else on, on, on yesterday? Draw tomorrow, uh, Monday night. Yeah, tomorrow night, yep. Yeah, so it's, uh, yeah, Plymouth, Plymouth Exeter, um, tomorrow night, which would be an interesting watch, I would imagine. Um, but, yeah, I mean, obviously all the, all the, all the, um, all the non-European Premier League sides come in, um, in this round. So, yeah, potential to, to get one of them. Joy. Yeah, lucky us. Um, all you get cardifers, onesie. Great. Uh, before we get on with the rest of the podcast, just a quick update on the Patreon sale that we launched last week. a massive thank you 20 new members. We mentioned them at the start. They've already joined the total saints community since then, which is brilliant. We're heading towards a target of 750 by Christmas. If you've been thinking about joining, now genuinely is a great time to do it. You get the whole season of our predictions league, the merch giveaways, the ad free episodes, and access to our WhatsApp community rather than jumping in halfway through the season. And that sale is still on right now. You can get 25% off your first month of your first year with the code TSP25. That offer will run out at the end of the month though. So don't sit on it too long. Our Patreon community has been supporting TSP for nearly seven years now. And every single person who joins genuinely helps us keep growing the podcast and doing more with TSP. So thank you again to the 20 view who have joined already. And if you've been listening for a while, we'd love to get you involved as well. Head to patreon.com/total saints podcast or find the link in the description across our socials. And that code is TSP25. Now thanks for getting there. Championship season underway this weekend when they travel to Watford to help us preview the game. We're joined by Peter from the Watford podcast. Pete, thanks for joining us. It's been a couple of years, but it's great to have you back on. How have you been? Yeah, I kind of thank you very much. I got the memo. I saw I'm wearing black as the home team and you're all wearing white t-shirts. That's good to see. It's a good start. I feel like we've got so much to talk about, including Will Still's brother. We will get onto that. I want to talk about the Cup game yesterday, a 1-0 win in the Cup. We can talk about XG and and goal attempts, but on paper it didn't seem convincing, but it was, yeah, you did everything but put the ball in the net apparently. Yeah, overall, I mean, yeah, I'm not a great one for stats, but 36 goal attempts, 11 on target. Crawley were kind of solid and well-organised and we'll come away feeling sick that we got the winner in the 1990s, as you say. It was just one of those days where and it's probably going to be the story of our season. Who knows? Maybe our first game with you guys. We're looking reasonably okay, quite nice in terms of what we've got. Certainly more than the sum of our parts and certainly more than we have in previous seasons. The thing we simply don't have still is a centre-forward. Who's going to put the ball in the back of the net because that was the story of yesterday most certainly. We had a lizard of opportunities, but nobody could nobody could put it in the onion bag until the left back hit it with a swinger with his right foot from 20 yards out and it flew in and everyone went, yeah, yeah, we knew it was all okay. No penalties here, but that was kind of the problem last season wasn't it? Are you surprised that wasn't addressed or have they tried? It was the kind of the problem for the last four or five seasons. I hate to correct you so early Martin, but it's yeah, it's the story of the story of our close season as ever. It involves a number of things. Manager change obviously. We'll get onto as you say, we can alter the old brother of will as anybody would be fine if they called him will still apparently when he was there, but you know the overriding temptation would have been massive. And so a change of manager, we've taken so long to bring any players in. If you weren't familiar already with the pot-zone network, it's a world-class scouting network from all over the globe, but if you're whatford, it basically happens to be the lost property broom cupboard in Udonazie because everybody's got even people who signed elsewhere, signed for Udonazie, then joined us. It's just the route that goes through. It's quite a minimal way to do it, but it's like a black whole portal that just ends up in somewhere near the training ground in London Coney. Let's talk about the new manager then. What's the feeling, bit of positivity? Well, I mean, we know a lot about managers having studied many of them over the last few years. Let's face it, it's not a fortnight unless you've got a manager saying a whatford, but this guy has done all right. He's come in very low-level expectations. His name is Alessio Dinesi. He's main claims to fame, shall we say, with the fact that he basically bought one of the teams up into Serie A, but then he got the gig at Sassuolo when Roberto deserved he moved on. So everybody goes, "Oh, well, he's Roberto." No, he's not. He kept him up for a couple of seasons and then the inevitable happened and everything went a little bit wrong. Before that, because that was his first chance at well, Serie B and Serie A in Italy, he was a Serie D, so fourth and third division and fourth division as a regional league over there, as he's a little bit of third, I think. He'd had three playoff finishes and close-up at Noca Gare, but in his last two to three years, it hadn't quite gone as planned. He got an eighth place with Pallermo, but they had the biggest the biggest budget in the league and then he went back to his old team that he bought up and that didn't go right. So we tend to bring people in when we're not just recruiting relatives of managers, which has been known as you'll know, when we do, it tends to be a reason why they'll turn up at Watford and it's not because their whole career is going flourishingly, that's be honest. But he's turned up, he said all the right things, albeit not very much in English, but he's clearly been trying to learn and he spoke the other day and everyone went, "Oh, okay, fair enough." And I appreciate you guys with Pocchettino, who didn't speak at all until he kind of, a couple of years, I think it was, at Watford, because we've gone through so many, it tended to be a thing, because you need to be able to talk to him in the first two or three months, because that's face it, that's the only time you're going to get to know it. It's obviously be off somewhere else. So that's kind of where he's been, he said all the right things, the reports have come out, he has said, "Yeah, I need centrebacks, I need centrebacks because the problem for us at this moment in time, we need a centre forward for the reasons I just mentioned, but we've also got two fit centrebacks, and we've actually only got two senior centrebacks at the club, and they both played for, well, 100 minutes yesterday, and we desperately need that field because it's the championship, and we all know that come the second Tuesday, half the squad will be needing to be called upon, but our problem is our owner, who is erratic at best, has gone into his somewhat disinterested stage, where he's in Udenese or Udenese in Northeastern Italy, and he seems like he's finally going to be the prodigal son returning home and maybe looking after that, and we seem to have a whole new level of dysfunction. Our CEO and Chairman came out at the start of the summer and said, you know, the kind of thing that that Watford fans would love to hear, which is we missed a sort of a steely British hardworking black, you know, kind of backbone in the club. We needed championship experience, and he came out and he said this on the podcast, and we all went, well, thank goodness the pennies finally dropped. We've only been saying that on every podcast, no demand for about the last six years, and since then, we've signed lots of players with little or no championship experience, typically from Udenese, and it's, yeah, so you can see that there is a difference between what one part of the board is saying and what is actually being delivered upon, and also you can imagine by the attitude of the owner, we came down four years ago, and I think he's just kind of a little bit bored, he's had a toy, he's played with it, we've gone up, we've come down, it's not proved to be as easy as I think he thought it was going to be. He's otherwise engaged, and therefore we're down to pretty meager pickings, but D&EC, Alessio is doing a no-case job with what he's got at so far. That's a fan, Pete. Is it kind of exhausting, or do you just like throw your hands up and just like roll with it? We're a podcast, it's a constant source of joy, and already, and get worse, who knew? Yeah, I guess so. There's always improved with the crisis, don't I mean, I do a post-match phone, and as you can imagine, those people motivated to ring in and in-mote, shall we say, have been a large number. However, I think everybody wants us to be able to move onto the other conversation, turn the page, and we've kind of floundered around threatening to be somewhere close to sick, obviously now that will now be eight, because no, we won't we won't flow actually inside of the playoffs, we'll flow tantalising the on the outside, and then in from about February onwards, we'll manage to make sure that 16th is our place people, and we're going to get it, and that's what we've done, and it's not even been like, can I appreciate this sounds absolutely stupid, especially with what you have when you went up to the Premier League, you can go up to the Premier League and it can be a horrendous season, but having a relegation battle that you might survive might give you something, because at the moment we're limping along on Groundhog Day, not bad enough to go down, not good enough to go up, and I think the patient requires some CPR if I was to use a medical metaphor for the no apparent reason. It's an interesting one, Steve, isn't it? I've sported a public who've come in for some criticism, but whenever we chat to some of the opposition fans, it's the case of Bekef, or what you wish for sometimes. - Oh, very much so. Yeah, I mean, at the end of the day, sport republic have made some dreadful appointments in terms of managers and, I mean, less so on the sort of sporting director side, but certainly on the manager side, they've made some absolutely honking appointments. But they've got a couple right. Whether by luck or by design, they've stumbled upon, I mean, Russell Martin did a good job in the first season to get us up. Not so much second season, but wasn't helped by the transfer situation. And Tom Drekker, but apart from the, apart from, Rolmaiyyes and mentioned Spygate again, apart from that has been brilliant. It's been an absolute revelation. So they've got that much right. And there's a lot of stuff that's going on off of the field that looks like it's gonna bear fruit as well. Phil Parsons mentioned at the Radio Soat and Forum during the week about a sort of grand plans in terms of the real estate around the ground, which apparently everybody's gonna be really excited for. So, yeah, we await with Bated Breath on that one. But yeah, you certainly, you could always take a kind of viewer other clubs and see that there are certainly owners there that you would not want to have. I mean, the potsovers have done some good, certainly, but I mean, you wouldn't have an ownership that's been in place for as long as they have without real protest. I mean, there's obviously been pockets of stuff at Watford, but there's never been sort of, right, everyone out on the streets marching to the ground type thing. So they've kind of kept things ticking over, but as you say, it does seem even from the outside that they've just kind of lost interest in a little bit. But the problem is, where do you find a new owner? Because the risk is always that you end up with some absolute charlatan tire kicker. I mean, you know yourself. I mean, the previous guy was a bit of a mess, wasn't he? If I remember rightly, Laurence Bessini, oh, yes. Yeah, I mean, you know, had an employee stopping him getting to his own safe. That says everything that you need to know really about it. No, he's done a lot of good at the start, where we were at the start. The ground is, you know, it's a tidy, you know, little Premier League ground now in Premier League terms. So find some, you know, it's perfectly enough for us. I think where we suffer from a point of view of your mentioned protests, we've organized three and then been told we haven't, you know, organized enough, which is kind of odd. But, you know, the problem that Watford has is its catchment, obviously, as a commuter town for London, is that so many people who will kind of evolve through the club in its natural, in their natural kind of movement of life, aren't necessarily rabid Watford fans. I would estimate that probably 30% of our, our kind of attendance is people who Watford might be the second club, you know, and/or when they're in their own league. - They're on their first fan, yeah, yeah, exactly. Yeah, and because literally within 45 minutes, you can get to four, you know, four other, you know, Premier League clubs at least, or if not five in London. That's an advert for London Transport that they really don't deserve, maybe an hour. (laughing) And so getting people to be motivated to be activists, so to speak, is a little bit difficult, certainly, because people will go, and as you'll know, there will be people for whom the club is, you know, the very first thing they think about, and the very last thing they think about, and it'll be the relationship that they have longer than anybody bar their immediate parents or siblings. And therefore it carries that importance. There will be other people who quite, you know, with every right in the world, they turn up on Saturday, they watch a football match, they enjoy it, they go with it, they might see some people and smile and wave, and then they'll go home. And so, you know, when you have the two things, side by side, it's very hard to get everybody motivated and to do something. And then you also have the fact that it's a very first world problem. I mean, we were moning like this to Sheffield Wednesday last week, last year. I mean, can you imagine our hoods? (laughing) Yes, we know you've got a problem, but listen to us. So, you know, you have to accept that there are certain things in this life at the moment, but your point about, it's no good unless you've got a buyer, as you've seen it, I mean, there's what Charlton Bristol City Derby ourselves, there's somebody else who are all up for sale at the moment. The number of. I mean, I'm amazed that Blackbird aren't. I mean, like Venky still seems to want to stick around, kicking that can down the road, it's bizarre. Like, why are you still here, people? Well, as I'm sure you're looking to, to the excellent 4,000-holes Blackbird and Languishy, you know, they had problems, quote, unquote, getting money out of India. I mean, that was a year period, where they were literally, there was just nothing that they could do. So, you know, we have to accept that what we've got, you know, we've still got some exciting players, you know, off my Marmer on the left, all look good. And Nabazada, first of all, Academy players to really come through and start looking interesting. A couple of the Odinese lands who, you'll see, you know, might have something about them. And then we have, you know, kind of. So, we're not completely out of it. The problem is it's so thin, it's so threadbare. And if you, you know, if you don't have a center forward and you don't have enough centerbacks, we know that games are one and lost in both boxes. So, we look nice, we look pretty, we look great, but we are ineffective. And that's what we've been for four years, because what's been provided hasn't really been fit for purpose. Our striker is a guy called Luca Kiran-Gel. Before he came to RC, he got 29 gold involvement when that became a word, 22 gold seven assists in the Danish second division. And they then transplanted it. They say, you know, you know, a Kelsa Pries, this young 21-year-old, who sits for four, but suddenly is, you know, welcome, this is Jake Cooper. He'll be mauling you for the next 90 minutes, you know. Enjoy. There's a whole lot for him to learn. And he's not really quite up to it. So, we're buying young fresh, we're trying to buy with a resale element to it. So, if you've seen Iran Kunda, our player who scored a couple of world-y free kicks last year, scored a total for Australia. Yeah, yeah, absolutely. He scored a goal for Australia in the World Cup, has actually flattered to deceive, but he's been fabulous to watch, don't take it away. And suddenly sporting, you know, sporting glisparin are in for him. So, we know that we buy with a view to sell, rather than with a view to build the team and therefore move through, because that's the way the POTSO family have made their money since about 1992 at Udamezi all the time. It's a player trading model. And that's where the disconnect really sort of hits the road. I don't want to look back too much, but there will be some Saints fans watching that will be just curious about the whole Ed still thing. Obviously, Will still didn't really work out for us. And then we looked at the first, correct me if I'm wrong, but the first couple of results were pretty good. And then we were kind of like, oh, well, maybe we got the wrong brother, but then it didn't work out either. - Yeah, we had the same thing with everybody going, oh, right, we've got Will still, Barry in mind Will stills, but Will stills are the half, Emma, is a lifelong whatford fan. She was our stadium in the two, for the praises. And you locked him and kidnapped him, but fortunately, the still family will get her back to us, I'm sure at some point. Yeah, Ed came in charming, really nice, complete, completely not there. Absolute Emperor's new clothes, no two ways about it. - Really? - One of the reasons why I think he was bought, well, when he first came in, I had to point out when he signed, because of course, you know, well, you don't know what happens, because you don't hire a manager every four night. We do, we go, basically, it's welcome to Google. Let's go and find out what Nerf he does, transfer marked, all of that sort of stuff. We signed him and in his previous 31 games in charge, which were all in Belgium, at two games at Andlet, about 15 at Court-Rike, one at Or even an, oh, it doesn't really matter, 31 games, he'd won two. So. (laughing) Now, no, now, all the cynics, but I wasn't really, really going, oh, this is gonna go well. And we're not. The logic, the logic to bring him in was the fact that we'd got a very much last season, a Francophone, kind of a real French speaker element, and an English-speaking element. So having somebody who's multilingual makes absolute sense. But I saw, I saw with Will still an interview, which I'm sure you will have seen, where we came out and he said, well, what was hard thing? And he said, well, it was sort of, oddly, it was the language. And you think, but you sound, you sound excellent. The shit, all of my language is about asking, you know, mum, if she wants a cup of tea or something. It none of it is about organizing a flat-backed four, and can you go and press the, you know, thinking about it at speed. And it was like, hmm, that could have been, that could have been the same problem. However, I think Will still won two games for you. Ed Still has won the battle of the stills last season in the championship. He won three games for us, but the rest were, oh my God. And we won 11 games at the end of the season without a win. And it was just awful. And you even mostly get battered by Middlesbrough, and nobody got battered by Middlesbrough in the second half of the last season. Thank you very much for the memory. I'm glad you're working through your middle for issues by battery. Yeah, he's been waiting for that one. Oh, God. Well done. That's something I'd be very proud of. Yeah, it was also, I mean, I've got a French surname as well. I don't speak French, but if you know, I'll wait for the call. Oh, hell. We are likely United Colors of Penetone, basically. It's like going walking into the UN most of the time in our ground. We're not holding against any particular race, creed or colour. Simply, do you know what's so as the owner, just the one man, that's the only problem. Let's look ahead to the weekend, then. I think you kind of outlined it already, but what are you expecting from the new managers? You're going to be a different way of setting up. How are they going to approach this game? Well, is that is that is it 433 or is it 4231 debate? Typically, I would call it a 4231. Others play it play it slightly differently. And it'll be interesting whether or not we play one of our others who return from the World Cup. Edo Kainbi in to make it a proper 4333. I think, bear any moment, we've got yourselves, we've got Rexham away and then we've got West Ham. So, you know, from our point of view, that's not an easy start. It's a horrible one. When we are literally only signed three of those, or no tell, I four of those players, literally in the last week and a half. So the preseason that he's done everything with, he hasn't had the players. He's finally been given that they just found, you know, walking around, who denazs you at some point going, you've answered a trip to Watford. So, so there's still a large element of the unknown, but we will play it back for. This is the football that he would play prior to when he went to Palermo. He switched to a back five for Palermo and for us an easy and he he's been that because it wasn't, it was very unaffected for him. Back four, the two in front will be Hector Kipriano, who was a piece of a previously. We had him last season. He's one of those players who you know if he's had a good game, if he's partner looks good, because he never does. We've got a land called Bove, who we signed last year. Now, he is the, for one of a better phrase, the Christian Ericsson, or, you know, of our group in as much as he played for, you played for Roma, went out and loaned to Fiorensina, and then in November of 2024, basically suffered a heart attack and basically, for one of a better phrase, passed away on the pitch, was resuscitated. Can't play in Italy because he's got a defibrillator, the kind of thing that kept Christian Ericsson alive, the only other week the other day. So, he's there and he's, you know, you can see that last season he really wasn't quite with it and he looked, you know, my god, the championship, what is this? That's a really good question, he's got a lot of good things to do with him in January. But, you know, now he's looking, okay, he might be there, we'll see if he is. We've still got Imran Loser, who is a curate's egg of a player, because he's brilliant, he really deserves to play at a higher level. Absolutely, cut the league apart for the first six months last year, and then I think through a combination of tiredness of basically lugging a club around on his back for six months, from the club, he is formed just dips, you know, and so he's been sort of not going to be in preseason, then doing preseason on his own. Now he's brought back in again so we might see him in there. But as I say, the interest will be if we can see players such as, we've signed a land called EK Bravo, who looks kind of interesting as a sort of a second-line forward, or offman Marmer, who is an excellent player and will play, he will go proper, proper far, and he's also cute enough to know that he's young, he needs to play. He's not wanting to get that move straight away. So he's doing really well, he'll be good. Combines really well with the lad, or I mentioned from the academy called Amin Nbazada, who's the only Afghan international that I'm aware of. I'm sure Afghan Afghanistan have more internationals, but he's the one. And he's doing really well. We got a lad called Bar, who you'd love, because he really annoyed ports with fans the other season. But he is, he can be an absolute force of nature. I was just a guy that did the Fortnite celebration, we did that too. Yeah, he did the whole thing. And yeah, I don't think, and then he almost caused the fight between Matinho and Tom Cleveley, which I mean, frankly, frankly, I've played for a few. I'd go for that, that'd be very excellent. Yeah, so he rolled them up a little bit. Plus the fact we just scored a last minute winner, so they weren't happy at the best of times. It's just a family. So he can be really devastating, but for about the last six to 12 months, he's not been great. He's one of these people who's got a niggling injury, he's got the power to absolutely burst past somebody, but doesn't seem to want to take him on. So with Iran, Kunda going off, one of our technical directors, we've got many of those as well needless to say. As I said, oh, it might be barge here. Not if Crawley left back kept him in his pocket for 45 minutes and he got taken off that straight after. I don't think that's necessarily the case, but if we get a resurgence from him, that'll be good. And we'll almost inevitably start with a young Kiram guard, because we had him on loan last year. He scored nine goals. He doesn't really get a great deal of service for what he's there for what he would naturally like. He's not naturally a back to goal championship center forward, but we've signed somebody who's six foot four and decided we're going to change what he does. It's very difficult to do that when you go through about three or four managers in a season, because what he's been asked to do, or if he's being selected has changed or been left out. So we'll see what happens, but the NEC is doing well with what he's got. Unfortunately, what he's got really isn't that good at this moment. We don't think, but we will see he may be able to make a silk purse from a sounds here. In terms of us, Glenn, still a few questions around, I guess, Lauren and Azaz and minutes. I'd be surprised if their bread and deer starts again out front, but we are not having the options. Well, there are always options. And if you can't find a better option than their bread and deer is up front, then what are you doing as what are you doing as a football club? There were a few comments about they mean down's been injured, of course, from 10 to 10. To be honest, if Carl Aaron is unfit, just, you know, he's not fit enough to start the game. Well, I don't see why he wouldn't be, to be perfectly honest. He played, he was obviously fit all the way through the World Cup. He said, what, a couple of weeks off and now he's back. I don't see any problem with Carl Aaron starting this game. And I would probably use Cameron Archer as the, for the last half an hour or whatever, as a central striker, even though that's obviously not ideal for his game. But no, I think the rest of the team, more or less, picks itself. You'll have a corrects in goal obviously. The backfall that played yesterday. It's probably be fling down some Cameron Bragg. And then, as Azaz, I imagine, with C.N.Z. Robert B.Massky. I think Dobbin starts. I don't think he's as well given. Given that, obviously, yesterday was the first 20 minutes he's had all played. You'd be playing Dobbin in a position that he's not, he's not played. Oh, I see you instead of Azaz. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Maybe. Maybe. But, yeah, Fellas on Matt Suki on the right. It's probably the change of what I'd go with Matt Suki. I just think he offers more in terms of end products and Fellas is probably better used later in the game to against Tyrone Defences. So, but no, I mean, what for Toys of Game? We always go up there and I kind of expect us to win and we quite often find a way not to do that. Yeah. Until last year and the last time in the championship, I think it was one all where Bzzoon who dived over a horrendous one in the last minute. And we managed to draw that game, but I promise I will try and learn the what for managers name. Usually I don't bother for obvious reasons. When are we playing you the second time? Because I'm sure we'll have a different one by there. Absolutely. We don't bother the proper pronunciation. We had you to check for Danza for three years. We just kept calling him Dave because we didn't believe you'd stay long in. He's gone to Ignatius, isn't he? Oh, yeah. The financial dealings in the way things go on and third party ownership and multi club models and all that stuff. I just find it incredibly sketchy and I wonder who's getting the best out of the deal with. Because Jack that Danza was a decent player, wasn't he? Yeah, he's gone. His numbers were wretched. If you go, I will look great and get you two goals into a system season, then he's your man. Don't get me wrong. A bit like Irang Kunder. Love watching him. Wishing my absolutely all the best. And in a normal functional football club, he may well actually produce. So, you know, if he's playing with the center forward, the assists from the chances he create might be a lawful lot better. We've tended to sign people who've flattered to deceive a little bit. But then again, it's, you know, as I say, it's the environment they're in. I'm very pleased that you said one one because I think probably what will happen is your score after eight seconds and then we'll score with a handball and very much annoy you. I remember that game particularly. That was, oh, yeah. It was one of the many injustices. You're right. Yeah, that was him. I was going to ask you for your school prediction, Pete, before we let you go. So, shall I sit you down for a one or? I think you should sit me down for a one or so. I'm quite happy with that. And I doubt the legitimacy of our goal even six days before the game is played to say. Right, well, let you go. I've a catch up later in the season for sure. If that's right with you, I love in the comments for your Pete. So enjoy the season and yeah, we'll catch up later. Thanks for coming on. Thanks for the insight. Cheers. Take care. Safe journey. Anybody's coming. Nice one. Let's get some score predictions from you guys. Yeah, it's back for another season. I know you've missed it Glenn. Steve, do you want to go for a score prediction for what for the way? Oh, go on, man. I mean, we start, we start the game four points behind, don't we? So we've got deficit to keep up. We're going to kick off our season seven points behind somebody, which is slightly mental, isn't it? When you look at it that way. But yeah, I mean, basically, if we can, if we can just make sure that we're not, we don't kind of give anything away in that in the first half. I think we're in this situation at the moment where I think we're starting games a little bit too sluggish and it's going to take a bit of a while to kind of knock that out of us. But getting through this game, get through the first half, no damage done. Second half, kick on like we've been doing in preseason. And hopefully you then get a win and all of a sudden the situation looks very different. Once you're closing that gap on the on the minus points right from the start, I think all of a sudden you got a bit of confidence and you can get moving. What for just feel like a, I mean, just one of many clubs in the sort of in that bottom half of the championship who feel like they're, I mean, you could toss a coin as to which of those sort of five or six clubs will eventually finish 16th. And it will be what the Preston Stoke, Bristol City, those sort of sides who are just going to be sort of much of a much less. And the teams that come out at the top are going to be the ones that find a way to win those games. And we need to find a way to win on Sunday. Second half with the quality of the bench, I think that's where it will be done. And same gesture there, actually two no win. Two no win. We've got a few two ones and one nails coming in. A couple of three ones, Glenn. Yeah, I'm a little bit concerned about not just the defending as Steeves is a little too bit particular, the defending offset pieces. You know, what what for do we seem to have a big physical type, big physical side. And I think set pieces are going to be important. I mean, we allowed cultures to just before our time free ed or at the back post that could have gone anywhere from a set piece. Just someone got free and that happened a few times in preseason as well. So they do need to tighten up on that. And as Steeves correctly pointed out, the the start of the game there just needs to be more tempo from the start of the game. It's all very well thinking, okay, we'll win this in a second half, but you've got to play the first half well. You know, I mean, you can't have, I mean, the classic game last year was, of course, Leicester away where we would die a baller call in the first half and we'd want it in the second half. But that you can't give yourself a very often those guys that you can't give yourself a mountain to climb and be terrible in the first half. And if you do get into the habit of starting sluggishly, you will eventually find yourself turning it down at half time and it's a long way back from there. So, but no, I don't see that happening. I mean, I think I've thinly disguised contempt for the whole ownership model of what you kind of hope that not for the fans, but for the owners that they get their sort of just desserts and really struggle this season. So, yeah, I'm hoping that we can we can be the start of that and the new manager bounce doesn't bounce particularly high. I was going to say 2-0 as well, but I'll go for, I'll go for 2-1. Okay. Well, the predictions league is back on the website, which is total saints.co.uk/prediction-league. Last season we gave out over 300 pounds in prizes to the community at the top of the league plus there's bragging rights in the WhatsApp chat as well. So, it's all to play for this season. If you do want to get involved, all you need is your Patreon login and you can join for free to get access to some parts of the community, including the chat and the predictions league. You don't have to pay for that. It's patreon.com/totalsaintspodcast. Before we wrap up any other business, there was the news of Jay Robinson heading out on, lonely, and linking back up with Ivan Eurich. Glenn, that seems like a, well, from what the interview that I heard we'd done today were kind of like, it wasn't a very easy decision to make, but ultimately they decided that perhaps a season away would do in the world of good. A very easy decision to make from the club's point of view. I assume that's talking about there. I think he was like arguing about whether, sort of, wrestling with himself about whether he stays with us or whether he goes and actually because he started, like we said earlier, he did start the year pretty well, didn't he? And then just kind of like, yeah, I mean, when Lewis Topin's role is going to be interesting in this because if he can play off the left, then you're kind of covered in that position and Cameron Archer, if he's still here, obviously, you can play that position as well. You've got Sam Adozi, who, I mean, talking to flatters to deceive. He's the classic for us, isn't he? And when he gets fit and has a little run of games, he can sometimes look off decent, but this has to be the season where it does he contribute something as well, doesn't it? Otherwise, we're four seasons in, three seasons in. And it's, he joined the same time as Romeo Lavie, I didn't he? And that seems ages ago now. And yeah, we need, you know, so with all those players around, and obviously you've got, I'm Max Keaker, probably play off the left as well. You know, with all these players around, then it, obviously don't see that Robinson's going to come in and play a whole bunch of games, so it probably is better for his career for him to go out. It's interesting. There's no options to buy or obligations to buy or anything like that. So we've hopefully learned a little bit from the, maybe the Don Ballard situation, where we've ended up cutting ties with the player who, you know, who, who suddenly proves that he's half decent and we maybe should have kept him. So, you know, I don't see any sort of like downside of this move really, for the club or for all for Joe Robinson. So no, for playing, I'd be, I hope he does really well, different culture, different environment, it'll be a good growing experience, all round, both as a player and character. And I assume you won't be buying the new awake kit that was launched this week. I think your review was, and I quote, it looks like an oil slick inner puddle, it's minging. That was your impression. I'm not sure that we're using that on the poster outside the stadium, but not a fan of the blue awake kit. No, no, I hate it. It's just, I hated the other one that we had with the C in the waves and all that crap about three years ago. That was awful. The fact that it's blue, and I knew you're going to ask me about this. So I dug out this blue shell, you know, a classic in which which I thought was minging when I when it first came out. I thought I was at 94, 95, what? 91, 93, 91ish. Yeah. Yeah. So backline back when kits for two years. I've got the picture of the all the kits on the wall, but it was from a market stall in Hammersmith, and some of them are just completely wrong on the days don't line up. So I can't trust that, but I'll tell you all the word. You're more likely to know that was early 90s. But the marketing, I mean, it's just serious about this for a moment. Yeah, I think the kit is minging. But the marketing point of view, we did really well last year, both from, you know, with the whole yellows thing for the 50th anniversary. And I think that is, well, as well. We did it, actually. That is that is a traditional second kit and the fans actually, you know, the way fans put it into, you know, put it into a chart and it builds the atmosphere and all that. We ain't never going to en masse sing, come on you blues. Do you know what I mean? And it just seems, it just seems dumb. I don't think it's going to prove to be in my look okay when it's on the pitch. I don't think it's going to be particularly popular. If you, I mean, if you had a yellow shirt with a, you can have this one for free anyone who's listening, if you have a yellow shirt with a blue sash across it, you know, mimicking what we add in the 125 year kit, that would be probably the best selling a weight kit we could ever have. So, you know, I don't think these things make this decision. Yeah, but, you know, I, I mean, relate, relate, relate, relate, relate your question. When's the last time Pompey had a red weight kit? Yeah, yeah, they wouldn't have read and watched stripes, would they? No, they've had a sort of salmon pink. They do have red, red socks, don't they? So I was fairly intriguing. Anything else before we wrap up? No, the kids killed it. Let's kill the conversation. I must apologise to Dan as well. Dan, who did join us very briefly at the start, having a few issues with his internet. I think Neatown went down in the building and then he tried to join me this phone and he couldn't. And I think Alfie's called me out because when I introduced Dan, I said it was Dan, hard reading, it's not, it's Dan hard grave. So we're correct, and yet it's so apologies, Dan. But Alfie's still being away. Dan will be back with us all being well. Fingers crossed if his internet is okay next week. So thank you both for joining us. I'm lots of love for Pete as well in the comments. You can follow the title saints podcast on all the usual social [BLANK_AUDIO] media platforms. We are at Total Saints pod on there. And if you do want to get in touch, if there's anything you want to get off your chest, you can drop us an email. Hello at totalsaints.co.uk Patreon is the main way you can support the podcast every month. We've got an amazing community over there of over 500 people and counting. And so our thanks goes out every episode to our Francis Bernali and our mixed Shannon members. They are Dave Melton and the Hollis and the Thompson Gavin Ford, James Harron and Nikki Nicholson, Peter Montelabo, Satampton NY Drew Diet, James Kibbe, Red 76 tax, Dave Benham, Michael Blackmer, David Mansor, Nick Gardner, John Collison, voice FM, Andrew Steele, James Ravenscroft, the mortgage squad, Greg Small, Barney Brander, Jody Neville and Tim T.J. And also Nick Reed, Dave Ernstberger, Nick Hingsdon, Jonathan Cooper, Colt Baker and Tini Thompson, Mike Eatherridge, Michael Horstrup, Mark Littlewood, John Bevan, Frank Thorpe, Andy Pickles, O.T.J. Engineering and Joe Ferret. Thank you to Steve, thank you to Glenn. We will be back. We will be live streaming our next episode on Sunday night at 7. So enjoy the game and we'll see you then.