She Didn’t Hit Rock Bottom — But She Knew She Had to Quit Drinking

Hey everybody, welcome to the Addiction Unlimited podcast where you get to learn everything you want to know about addiction and recovery. I'm your host, Angela Pugh, co-founder of Kansas City Recovery, Life Coach and Recovery and Alcoholic. To learn more about me, you can listen to episode zero on your podcast app or find us on the web at AddictionUnlimited.com. Hello my friends, welcome back to Addiction Unlimited podcast. I'm your coach, Angela Pugh. And today's episode is a little different because I'm joined by one of my longtime clients and now fantastic friends who is officially five years sober. And I really wanted to have this conversation because I think her story is the story so many people are living right now. Not to a mad rock bottom, not losing everything, not waking up one day, suddenly a hundred percent certain she had to quit forever, but years of negotiating, trying to moderate, trying to prove to herself that she could still have a normal relationship with alcohol, making rules, breaking rules, starting over, counting days, doing mental gymnastics all day long, trying to figure out the big question, do I really have a problem? Do I really need to quit? Maybe I can still make this work. And I think one of the most exhausting part of drinking is not even the drinking itself, it's the obsession. It's the constant debate, the bargaining, monitoring, promises, shame, all that mental energy that alcohol takes from your life long before you ever stop drinking. And the truth is, long term sobriety is not built on willpower. Willpower runs out. What actually keeps you sober is what you build underneath the decision. Support, structure, honesty, connection, learning how to handle life differently, and that's exactly what we're going to talk about today. So whether you are still trying to moderate, whether you are newly sober, or you're somewhere in the messy middle wondering if this is ever going to feel normal, I think this conversation is really going to hit home for you. So let's get into it and welcome Denise to the show. Hello my love, thank you so much for being here. Thank you so much for having me. It's been a long time coming, I guess. I know, I feel like we've been talking about recording for a hundred years and we're just finally getting around to it. We like to procrastinate. Well, I think we talked about recording in person. And I think the thought process for me at least was we were going to record when you were in Kansas City in August or September. And then we just couldn't. It was too busy. We had too many people. We were having too much fun. There was just no way to make that magic happen. So here we are. I'm so glad you're here and I'm really excited to talk about this because I feel like so many people schedule like consultation calls with me and everybody always thinks like they're the only one, right? They think like they're the only high functioning person and they think that their story is so different from anybody else's because they don't have that major rock bottom moment. And I just said this to a lady on a consultation call yesterday. I was like, you know, 99% of my clients don't have a tragic rock bottom moment. It's that you are in exactly the right place because that is a much more common story now. So I'm curious with you like when did you first start wondering if your relationship with alcohol might not be healthy? I'll bring it back to the kids in the 80s, 1980s. I think in Marie Claire or one of those magazines, there was questions, right? You could fill out the quiz and one of them was that quiz. And I would say I would fill that out and determine through that questioning that I didn't have an issue. Then I was in a cyclist in college and we read I'm dancing as fast as I can, which is a young lady who gets involved in addiction. I was like, oh, that's interesting. And then it cooled its jets and I was in my 20s and I had a fabulous time of my 20s and I survived it. And I didn't have any major issues. I did get pulled over my way back from a bar. My mom came and picked me up and the cop was like, oh, you're a teacher. You can go. And I went back to my house. But we definitely enjoyed ourselves and I would say in my 30s is when I really started it amped up. This wasn't a weekend thing anymore. This is now happening all week long. I deserve it. And it just that progression that everybody talks about, I'm now living it. And now your health and your lifestyle starts to get affected. So it's not just a weekend party. We're down at the beach and we're having fun and kegs and bars and booze and music. It's now, wow, I want to come home and do this. And I thought I was making an active choice and I stood by that for a pretty long time that I'm an adult and I get to do this and I'm choosing to do it. And I deserve it after I worked hard at the end of the day. Did you immediately know that you were going to have to quit completely? Like was did you have that thought? No. I started with a 60 day dry. It was one year no beer and I did 60 days and I did it on purpose in July and August because that's the summer. And I live at the Jersey Shore. So if I could quit over the summer, I definitely didn't have a problem. And that all came to a close at the end of the summer when I went to a Zach Brown show. And there was no way I was going out to that show and I hopped right back on the drinking horse and took off from there. And I believe that was the summer of 2019. And you know, you can do the math. My sober date is March 1, 2021. So I just want to be clear, everything's that maybe you wake up and it happens that is somebody, you know, that's your story. You had a moment. It happened. It just, it just wasn't for me. It took a lot of time and practice. It took practice not drinking. It took, you know, the experience of going back and forth. And there was a lot of time in between 20, the summer of 2019 and when this actually happened. What were some of the things you tried? Like did you do like making all the rules for yourself to try controlling it? Yes. So I was only going to drink on weekends. I was going to have happy hour on Fridays and you're on a cell phone Saturdays and Sundays. I should clean up and then I would be all set for work. And then, you know, Sunday, Sunday, football Sunday. So now it's Friday, Saturday, Sunday and then it's like, well, you know, at a tough day on Monday, you know, it just, it just grew, it grew from only on weekends. Only when I go out to dinner with my friends, I'm not going to drink at home or, you know, you make up all these rules. For me, it really had a lot to do with the weekend. That was my time off from work. And then it just grew into the work week. Yeah. I think a lot of people listening can probably relate to that. I know I took a break for 30 days. That was my first thing. And my thought process was I was trying to prove to myself that I didn't have to drink every day. I think somewhere in the back of my head, I knew the answer was I was going to have to quit forever. I really did know that. I just was nowhere near being able to commit at that level. So I quit for 30 days. And I was like, I just have to prove to myself that I don't have to drink every day. And that will give me like a newly-son life, right? So I go my 30 days. It was pretty easy. It didn't bother me. Now I understand, after 20 years of sobriety and doing this work, that almost all of us can quit for short periods of time. Or to prove it to ourselves or to prove it to other people, right? We can quit pretty easily for a period of time, especially if it's going to piss people off because we tend to love that. But I know when I went back to drinking after 30 days and I was like celebratory, right? Like, oh, I went 30 days. I don't have to drink every day. Like I was so relieved. I was like, I can just drink on special occasions. Well, unfortunately, everything felt like a special occasion. And it was like, just like you were saying, then all of a sudden it's like, well, I had a hard day. I deserved to drink today. That's a special occasion. And then it's the weekend. It's a baseball game for me. I'm not footballing baseball. It's a baseball game, you know, whatever. Like there was always a rationalization to drink. - And the planning. So when you start to give yourself rules, you are gonna plan for that day all the other days of your week, whatever rule you have set. So if you're a week and starting Monday, you'd be like, okay, we get to have a drink on a Friday, we're going to have you on Friday. So now I'm exerting all this mental energy at this point for the special Friday, Saturday, and eventually Sunday. That's a lot of time and energy. - Yes, because listen, I gotta think about what I'm gonna wear, like where I'm going, who I'm inviting. Like this is not a part time job being a drunk. This is a full time situation. It requires all of your attention. I just wanna point out, so does your recovery. Requires your full attention. (laughs) So tell us a little bit about, I know one of the things you did, this is one of my favorite things to talk about, is tracking your days on a calendar. So how did you get into that? Like what made you think to start doing that? Where was that in your journey? - I think it's very teacher- - Like? - I didn't think of that. Yeah, that makes perfect sense. - I wanted to cross off days that I did not drink. So I created like a positive calendar, so I could see the excess. So I went to Target and I bought one of those monthly calendars and I would just to ex-off. And my goal, my original goal, was if I was drinking every day of the year, I wanted to drink half as much. So it didn't matter, like I would keep track, yes, but I wanted my first goal was to drink half as much. - So I had to concerted effort to back off. Then it, you know, I had better months than other months, you know? It's just the way it worked. And then eventually, I mean, I joined another 30-day group eventually in 2020 or I did it twice. You know, and it's like I needed that group to help out, but. - What did you notice? Like once you started tracking your days, what were some of the like the realizations that you had? Either about your drinking or about your feelings about drinking, like what were some of the discoveries in that process? - You really got a chance to see how much. It was no longer a secret. Like you kind of knew, but instead, until you start tracking, you don't know. Kind of like I track days or, you know, I'm actually keeping data. That's it. I'm keeping data, right? What is the data on this? What am I actually doing in a month? Like what does this look like? You know, I think for me, it was like really getting a really good look on visual. I still have visual reminders at work. I keep a paper calendar. I keep an Apple calendar. I mean, but I'm very visual. So for me, it was like I really wanted to see like what did this look like? I still have that. And I'll flip through those calendars. And it's like it's interesting. It brings me back to that year or, you know, however many months that was. But for me, I needed to see it visually. Yeah, could I have said, gee Denise, when you're making your own runs to the recycling center with hidden handles of vodka? Like, you know, that obviously is a red flag. But for me, like, like, I just needed to track it. And I'd like to see progress. And I started to add up like the days in the months. And then I would have a little pen and a ruler. And I would x them out. Like the whole thing for me was just, how can we spend this in a positive way? Mm-hmm. Yeah, keep track of what's happening here. Yeah, that's interesting. There are, I feel like you have so many of those realizations like after you quit too. But it is like hard evidence. You know, like we say this all the time in recovery. Like what does the evidence tell you? And that's a really good way to just have very clear data on what is actually happening. You know, I remember feeling that about how much money I spent drinking. I really had no idea how much money I spent until I quit. And you know, 'cause your brain plays tricks on you, 'cause it wants to rationalize and justify. So your brain will tell you whatever story it needs to tell you to get you to do what it wants you to do. You know, so I would always downplay like, oh, well, I'm not spending that much because I'm a bartender and all the other bartenders know me. So I'm getting free drinks and discounts and whatever. And most of the nights I'm working anyway. So I'm not spending a lot then. But then I got sober and I looked at my bank account and I was like, damn dude, I am rich. Like where is this money going? Like I was shocked at the amount of money I was spending just on drinking. So it's good to have those data points. - Yes. And I would say, I love the idea that you talk about rationalization 'cause I think that we're all fabulous at it. - Oh gosh, yes. - You know, I felt that I didn't buy fancy purses and shoes 'cause I'm a flip-flop speech gal. I was like, well, that's my fun. You know, I'm not out. I don't have a fancy car. I don't have fancy shoes. I don't have the fancy purse. I don't buy things that, materialistic things is not always my thing. But it kind of was a justification. I wanna go out with my friends. That's what I do. And I'm an adult and I can. That's my favorite. - And you're not the boss of me so I can do whatever I want. - Yes, exactly. - So what made you finally decide to quit completely? - The darkest moments were probably waking up at 3.30. And I had this like ball of in the Josh Jen. I didn't know he's drink wine, but when I drank red wine and or I ran out of whatever and I switched over the wine, that was a rough night. Those were rough nights. When you wake up at 3.30 and you just have this burning and whatever else and you go to the bathroom and you expel it. And it looks amazing at 3.30 in the morning, but I could go back to bed and go to sleep. That got bad. My cheeks were bright red. I used to keep thumbs in my desk at work. I know for a fact I rolled into a couple jobs and Jameson was literally oozing out of my pores. I mean, I had a colleague at one time. He was like, you legit smell like a liquor cabinet. I was like, mm. So it just your relationships. I didn't realize how short tempered I was and unapproachable and just people just didn't know what they were gonna get. And that's my biggest, I don't know, I feel the worst about those colleagues and I did give an immense to them because I felt like I was just such a crappy employee. And colleague actually, it is really the word. They deserve better. I mean, I always care about kids and taking care of my job and get my stuff done, but I could have been a much better person. I just was like a mess. And then my stomach would be a mess. Just the pain, I used to feel like my intestines were on fire. It was such a weird feeling and thank God, I don't get that anymore. But it literally felt like I wish I could rip my insides out because they were on fire. And my bad guess is that that's all inflammation. So it was just miserable. It was just, you're kind of like sweating and you know, feel great. I mean, it's just, and then I'm waking up in the morning. I'm literally having conversations with myself in the mirror. I'm calling myself in third person. I'm like, Denise, what are we doing here? Like this is, we can't keep doing this. Like why, you know, you need to stop. And I'm having this conversation with myself in my bathroom mirror. You know, some other crazy stuff happened. I ended up backing into a car that I ended up leaving that scene. You know, I did some questionable things. I was out on the road when I shouldn't have been. Nobody could take my keys from me, like forget it. It just, it just the whole thing was just a hot mess. And I didn't realize how bad it was because I woke up. I went to work. I did my job and I got a paycheck. That's what we're supposed to do, right? Mm hmm. Well, I checked all the boxes for being an adult. So when you decided to quit, how did you feel? Like, did you have any relief? Or was it just like terrified? Like what, where was your head? It was an odd time. Schools ended up getting closed, some around 2020. And we all went home during this for me. So there was a period of time where I got really like into podcasts and stuff. And I just, you just start to hear more. And you're like, you get more accepting, I guess. you know, you get much more accepting of like, we have to do something. And that's when I started, like, I'm a book person. So now I start with the books. You know, I got the one year in O'beer, I did Alan Cars, the easy way to quit drinking. I was reading like, "We're the luckiest." And then, you know, I'm listening to other podcasts. And, you know, you just accept, it's like, I have to do something about this. I don't know. It just was like, I can't continue to live this lifestyle. This is, this is going to end me. This is, this is horrific. I have to quit. I don't know how. Where do I go for this? And, you know, I had some pretty strict rules about how I was going to do it. You know, when you know that. Yeah, talk about that a little bit. What were some of your rules about how you were going to do it? I was going to do it my way. That is your favorite way. It is. Whether it's effective or not, it is your favorite way. I'm very willful. I've been told. And it even confirmed it on one of those personality tests. Imagine that. Imagine that. So I get all the books. And I listen to the podcasts. And I do another 30 day. And I realize it's it forces you into groups. So it was in like a group of 10 women. And we're all going to quit for 30 days. And I was part of the whatever group of February or something. And it was beneficial to be in a group, which is probably the last thing. Actually, it's not probably it was the last thing that I wanted to do for this because I could do it all. You know, I've gotten this far. And that's also something in my brain too, right? I got 30 days. I got 60 days. You know, I can do this. So I came out of that 30 day program. And I wiped knuckle it for three months. And I finally conceded to the fact that I needed to be connected. And I had heard you on somebody else's podcast. And I was like, whoa, who's this chick? And I'm from Jersey. So you spoke my language. And I found out that you had a program. And I felt that the time, you know, what what I really needed to do. And I joined sober society. And I I immediately joined the IP at the time. And it was so important because I showed up to every single one of those meetings with questions for you. And I'll never forget it. I didn't sequai it. I didn't have my camera off. I had questions. You were the expert. And VIP was my access to you. Now, I do love all the people that were there. But truly, I can care. I care about them. I have my questions. I showed up and I have my questions. And I think and I think I just wanted to gather information from you. You know, I consider you a source. Yeah. So I try to find good sources of information. And you were providing good source of information that actually worked. And it helped. And you just had you really do. You just have a great way of explaining things. And I just love, you know, you're straightforward to a point. You never made me cry. But I did have to hear the things that I needed to hear. Yeah. We all do. There are parts of this that aren't easy, you know. And it's one of the reasons like I always stress the importance of getting out of your comfort zone. Like everything I did needed to be uncomfortable. And I was very clear about that because my comfort zone was drunk. So when somebody was pointing out things about me or my behavior or my responses and it made me uncomfortable, that's when I knew that was exactly what I needed to hear. Right? So it's like, just shut up, Angela. Like you're uncomfortable because they're telling you the truth. Period. Like you can't be comfortable right now. Comfortable's drunk. Sorry. It's over. But it is like we're the worst judge of our own behaviors and actions and reactions and all of those things. You do have to have somebody one that you're willing to receive the message from. Right? Because you it has to be somebody that you respect and that you believe they know what they're talking about. Right? It was the same way for me with my sponsor. Like I knew he was my person. There's no question. And you know, we laugh a lot when I talk about some of the things that he's said to me and how he sponsored me. And it was just a dream come true for me. You know, I like somebody to be a little hard on me anyway. I thrive in that. And I know he's not for the faint of heart. But he also at the same time being tough. He at the same time was so loving and kind and accepting. And I think I learned a lot about my approach and coaching from him. You know, that you do have to be honest and you do have to tell people things they don't want to hear sometimes. But you do also do it with love and kindness and respect and and all of those things. And that's how we learn, right? That's how we get better. Yeah, I think recovery. When you're really in tune with the whole process and you know, we get what we need. And I found an amazing sponsor down in South Carolina. And she was perfect for me. I would have probably crumbled a bit under Kevin. I just have so much self-worth and self-esteem. Like I think it was it was really hard for me to take certain criticisms because I'm already hard enough. I've on myself, right? I've already beat myself up. Like if I have to give myself a report card, you know, it's a C plus B minus because I always have things that I should of what it could have. But she was beautiful. She held my hand through the whole thing. It was I love her. I still call her and I'll be down in South Carolina for her to celebrate her 40th. But we get what we need and it's important. And it's important to hear those things because, you know, I hit not too long after that. I hit an emotional, what I call my emotional rock bottom. I had polished off. I think two bigs of miniature candies that were left over from Halloween. And we were on a call in November. And I'm crying, which isn't often. And you pull out the big book and read a passage. And I said, I'm going this Saturday to a speaker meeting. And I went. And that was how many months, you know, into into this journey. You know, I'm sober, March. This is now November of the next I call them school years, right? The next school year. So, you know, it takes me a while to get there because I will always start with willpower. Always. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Well, it's challenging. You know, people always ask me, are you going to make me go to AA? No, I don't care if you go to AA. You know, like you can find your own way. This world is not about like AA is the only program. You can get help and you can get sober and be successful anywhere you go. It is your choice. You know, programs don't work or not work. We as people work or don't work. So you can go to any program anywhere at any time and be successful if you choose to be successful. What surprised you in early sobriety? Like what were some things that maybe you didn't expect or that felt different, than you thought they would or whatever? I didn't realize that I could curtail a lot of cravings just by eating. Like that was magical. Like to remember to feed yourself and that's whole. And for me, it was like, I think I was, you know, I also struggle with food, right? So I would try to not eat, then have cocktails, right? Because liquid doesn't count. So, so for me, I also have that sort of thrown into this whole mix and just kind of like being on a normal feeding schedule. I was shocked that that made such a big impact and could really put any type of for me craving at bay. I allowed myself to eat whatever I wanted, but definitely it was incredible how a sandwich could change your day. Yeah, you mentioned halt just for anybody that doesn't know that's just an acronym that we use, like a quick checklist. If you're having a craving, it's hungry and gree lonely tired. I'm almost always at least two of those things, but that's a great place to start, right? If you're uncomfortable, feeling bad, having a craving, like start with that checklist and start handling those issues and then see how you feel in 15 or 20 minutes. I experienced the sleep. I was in bed and I was laying there and I could actually feel the sheets on my face. And I was like, oh my god, I can feel, I can feel the sheets. Like I like my sheets. And I was laying in bed. Wait, could you not feel them before? No, because I was blotto. Oh, a sensor. I never went to bed like a normal. Yeah, yeah, yeah. No, that's what I always say. Like I didn't fall asleep by past. that's a very different experience. Yeah, I see what you're saying. It's like having that awareness. I remember having that awareness like being outside and all of a sudden I would notice like all these random weird nature things, you know, like what the birds are doing and all this weird shit that I feel like was just turned off for me my whole drinking life. Like I just, I had none of that sensory stuff and I'm sure that's definitely an alcohol thing, right? Like it's a natural anesthetic. So it makes perfect sense when you think about it. But yeah, I do, I get that 100%. You do just start noticing things that you've never been aware of before. Colors were brighter, much to your nature. Example, music, I was just grooving. You know, it sounded better. It's just weird. You know, it was really nice though to eventually settle into some sleep. You know, I had a rough go at the beginning. I did it myself, it's not recommended. I didn't realize that. I don't recommend it for anyone else. It was a struggle in those beginning days and weeks like your body. You have to give a time to really settle into it. - That's very good. - So it was also nice to get sleep back. But yeah, there was always more like the things that you're like, you're going about your day and all of a sudden you're like, "Oh, I didn't notice that." You know, that's different. - Yeah. - One of the things I've realized about getting sober is that comfort matters more than I ever understood before. When I was drinking, I spent years uncomfortable. Uncomfortable in my own skin, uncomfortable in my emotions, uncomfortable sitting still, relaxing, slowing down. And honestly, I think that's part of why so many of us drink. We're trying to escape discomfort. Now that I'm sober, I pay a lot more attention to the things that genuinely make my nervous system feel calm and safe and relaxed. 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Now is only for people that have gone through my six week program, about years ago, I had it open where people could come in, could join, and it was one night of group coaching with me every single week and that's when Denise came in. So when you started really being around all the other sober people and you said, like you've told me this before, that like you were like, I had questions. I wanted your answers to my questions and I came every week with questions to ask you and I wanted to know what was going on. How, what changed for you in sobriety being surrounded by all of us and we do have a phenomenal group and I understand I'm biased, but we really do have a phenomenal group of people that are so fun and vibrant and just amazing. So it is a lot of fun. But for you coming in, how did that change your journey, your sobriety? It was very good to hear other people share how they navigated their day, problems, situations that I might not have been going through, which means it wasn't on my question and answer list for you. But I got to hear everybody else and what they were going through and then you got to hear the advice that you give them. And just to watch other people cry, like, you know, I'm just like, oh my God, and that's vulnerability. Like I struggle with that immensely. And I'm gonna work on that. That's one of my things to work on. I don't ask for help, but you know, fiercely independent, hyper vigilant, like, you know, but it was super important to listen to all that and you watch people struggle and you celebrate their wins and it's an incredible experience. I mean, I remember being on a meeting and one of our members said, you know, they got to go to their grandson's faceball game and they never would have been able to do that drinking, you know, and to hear that, that's like, okay, there's hope. Like you can get that far. Like, you know, there's hope for me because, you know, but it was super important to listen to everybody else's stories. And it's hard because like we're detoxing. I mean, I'm not gonna say, you know, it was hard in the beginning because really it's all me, me, me. So it sort of was like, okay, I gotta listen to all these other people before I get to ask my questions, you know, but it also was important for me to listen. And I didn't realize you really are listening and taking in, but it is important to hear that. And you will identify with some stuff and other things, you know, it's their experience. I'm a single gal hanging out by the Jersey Shore. I'm not gonna have different problems in somebody with two kids, a wife, a husband, a girlfriend, a boyfriend, or whatever. That adds different spices to life. - I think though a lot of our feelings are always the same, though, you know, like, because I feel like this is one of the ways people separate themselves. When they go to meetings of any sort is, they're sitting there looking for all the ways they don't fit because that's what your brain wants, right? Your brain wants to tell you that you don't have to go to the meetings and that you don't fit there and you're not as bad as those people, right? That's what your brain wants you to believe because that way it can keep you isolated and alone and feeling bad about yourself and drunk. So it wants you to sit there and pick all the ways that you don't fit and you're different and this isn't the place for you. But the truth is, we're all really similar. It's just our details that are different, right? And you, like, listening, you can be married, you can be 20 years older than me, you can be 20 years younger than me, you can be a multi-millionaire and I can be broke as a joke, like, whatever the things are, regardless of how different our details are, our feelings are almost always the same, how we perceive the world, respond to the world. And that's what you collect in those meetings, listening to other people. Insights, sometimes that you don't even know you need yet, right? Like, I can't believe how many times in early sobriety I would hear people talk about something and like a week or two weeks later I'd be in a similar situation. And I'm like, "Damn, that's what he was just talking about in the meeting." You know, like, I didn't know when I was sitting there, I was gonna need that information, but here I am. Like, there's so much value in that. - I think a lot of our problems, like we just kind of trouble playing with others. You know, and that's how I view myself, right? I was kind, I was charitable, I cared. I just had all these relationships that were just horrific and as it turned out, it was me, it was my attitude, it was how I responded. It was opening my mouth when I shut it. (laughs) You know, these are still things that I work on, but for me, I think you're right, right? We can parse it all the way down to, we just have difficulty with others and get, you know, that emotional piece is very similar. I would agree with that. - Well, yeah, you're talking about a lot of people with a lot of trauma. And I definitely have some people that will say to me, like, I don't think I have a lot of trauma, I had a really great upbringing of great parents, but I gotta be honest, I don't think that you can be a human being on planet earth and not have some trauma, right of some sort. whether it was being bullied in school or I mean it could be millions of things. The life experience is kind of traumatic. So you're talking about a ton of people with a lot of trauma and that creates trust issues and that creates the hyperindependence and not asking for help and not feeling safe asking for help and all of that stuff. So yeah, I think that's right on. It's just we have relational struggles for sure and but that's one of the things that groups is so good for too because it helps you break down those barriers because a lot of that I mean it is internal we build that up ourselves you know and you have to start to feel some safety in some space to start letting that wall down the tiniest, tiniest bit and I think when you sit in groups especially with people with some longer sobriety and you get to hear other people get vulnerable it makes you a little braver right and you're like well damn if they could talk about that out loud and say that and cry in the middle of the room with all these people then I can I can share some shit about me too and it's okay you know we're all gonna be okay. I have watched more grown men cry in AA then I have a my entire lifetime out in society or even in my own house. Yeah for sure. I watched a young lady sit in a room of people and discuss something horrific that happened to her as a teenager and you just you can't help but sit there in awe and say how brave is that person? Yes and I hope I used to say I hope one day I can be that brave. Yes and I got there. Yeah I got there it takes me a little bit longer than most you know which is why you're still my coach and my friend um but yeah I you know it's it's it's always a work and progress. Always yes the work is never done people want this magical checklist that they just go through the actions and check it off the list and then live happily ever after and like no I'm gonna be a full-time job for the rest of my days you know you're always growing and evolving and life is always happening you're always learning new things and you're always getting knocked down so you're always gonna be working on stuff. What's speaking of I didn't know that speaking of working on stuff what are some of your routines tools that are super important to you now like what are some of your greatest mindset shifts that you've had. I love I I start my morning with 24 hours a day um it's a it's a beautiful little book I get a thought, a meditation and a prayer um I stretch on my yoga mat my hips are tight I bought a pole like a stretching pole a yoga pole to try to work on like twisting and bending uh I feel better when I'm looser. I also have the red light um that you suggested uh so I like to do red light as well I do have a Peloton bike that I should get on more often than not uh exercise is hugely important to me and I haven't really been doing it for myself and I I know that I've always been athletic um I love kickboxing I love those workouts where like you can't breathe I can get into such a zen state through a very difficult workout um you know that's super important movement going for walk getting outside in the sun is huge for me and I am a water person my entire day can reset if I'm able to jump into a salty body of water which I can always do so then I do have um bath and I buy sea salts and I do like a mixture and I will sit and soak in a magnesium salt bath um I you know groups definitely I just bought um a way to blanket I have two now I have the cozy earth one which is phenomenal and I also bought a nazi which is like a loop stitched so if you have difficulty with heat problems in the body it's phenomenal so a weight anything weighted is super helpful for me yeah I love all those things too so what's different about your life now when you look at five years ago compared to today I have taken control of my finances and become an investor and I was historically told that I was bad at math so that was a pretty big hang up for me um I struggled in that area so I thought I couldn't manage or do anything with money so I was able to do that emotionally I am much better at my relationships in my job I actually I had a rough start at the work job that I'm in now and I really was able to turn that around and get it together and repair um some relationships there um I'm able to keep my mouth shut during meetings because not everybody needs to hear what I have to say and I don't always have to remind my boss that I'm smarter than her because that doesn't always go over well so I'm really proud of what I have done with my mouth and just sitting back and watching things unfold that that was a I strategically tried to work on this this year specifically and um it wasn't perfect but I am very happy with how it rolled out and I would say I never regretted never regretted keeping my mouth shut it always worked out it did and that is a really nice reinforcer to say you know what it can work out with your mouth shut that was major um knowing more about myself um as a drinker I used to go to football games if you have been in Jersey you know that can be a pretty crazy crazy place to go I'm not really interested in in football I only went to drink um I am a concert person I would probably go with my addiction on limited friends or I would choose differently we were big tailgators there is no reason here's the best there's no reason for me to get to a concert for hours early anymore um I can relate I used to do the baseball games I used to like how many times did I show up for a baseball game and I never even went inside like wasted like get up the next day didn't even know if they won or not baseball used to be was so boring um I had an amazing time out in Kansas City we went to that game and I like it was really nice um to sit with y'all I mean you're like baseball and I like baseball and I didn't realize like oh I really like baseball now um you know it was just a long game but when you're sitting by somebody like me that just is such a nerd and I just nerd out on all the little nuances of baseball like I just genuinely love baseball so it makes it more fun yeah I mean I I mean I played softball my whole life and it was a big part of my childhood and I do love the game and you know it's an American pastime I love it I live near the Yankees like come on um you know but it definitely you learn things I'm into yoga I hated yoga as a drinker it made me feel uncomfortable it actually made my body feel uncomfortable because I probably was swollen and couldn't bend and then if I bent down I get into gestion up my chest you know yoga it is too calm I think a lot of things like especially drinking I couldn't do a lot of calm things you know that's a good point and I would say most of my activities now are calm you know I have a drum that I like to play I'll just try to keep the beat with music for fun I just bought a tarot deck I've always been really big into astrology and I was like oh it's time you know I can hang out and go through my deck you know it's just you just learned so much more about yourself I have so much more attention to research things read things learn about things look into potentially going back to school um you know it's just your whole world you evolve into this new person it doesn't happen overnight and you have to I have to go and experience things for the evolution to happen the evolution doesn't happen sitting on your couch at home you know it happens as you do things and I had to learn um wow I don't really like this anymore or I would rather hang out with these yoga people on a Saturday um and do the women's event you know you you have to do those things to figure all this out and drinking makes us so lazy you know because you can go places you don't really like and you just drink until you don't care you can hang out with people you don't really like and you just drink till you don't care right so you don't like you can do anything go anywhere and you just drink till you don't care so you have no idea what you actually like to do you know how you like to spend your time but it's fun like I think it's fun figuring that stuff out I think a lot of people stress out about it. But I'm like you, for a long time, like I thought, I would have thought I was an extrovert, right? And then I realized I was never an extrovert. I was just drunk. Like that's a very different thing. And once you learn like what spaces you're comfortable in and what activities really turn you on, then it's so much easier to create that life that you just love. You know, now I don't do anything that I don't love. But when I got sober, the only thing I loved was drinking, you know, in my dogs. But that was it. Like I had never really explored anything because drinking just holds you hostage. Yeah, and I can't wake up and do activities if I'm hungover. Yeah. You know, it's just consuming. Yeah, for sure. Okay. Final question, favorite question. What's your favorite thing about being a sober person? Being gifted the tools to deal with life as an adult. Yeah, I get that for sure. That was the thing that was so embarrassing to me in my active alcoholism. I was never embarrassed about being an alcoholic. But I was so humiliated that I just couldn't cope with my life. I was like, what is wrong with me? Like I just can't cope with anything. I have to just get drunk over everything. Everything required a drink. And then you woke up to that same issue the next day. Yeah. And it's just it's just so it's freeing. I know I have the tools. I know I have a group to go to. I have a wonderful expert on Thursdays. You know, that I can ask a question to. It is extremely freeing to just be to just be so good. Denise, thank you for coming on and doing this with me and sharing your story with everybody. I loved it. I hope I said something that were helpful to the audience. I think that's probably the biggest fear of people coming on here that I say something that helps somebody. Yeah. I mean, that's what it's all about. You know, I'm huge on service. And what can I give rather than what can I get? So it is I just know your story is really good and powerful. And you've had such an incredible transformation. And there are so many details of your story that I think so many people listening to this right now are nodding along. Like, yes, me too. Yes, me too. I felt that way too. I understand that. I did that too. And that's the most important part. You know, it's like people have to understand that it doesn't matter where you're starting from. We can all do this. You know, if you're wondering if you can get sober and stay sober, like 1000% yes, you can. Yes, you definitely can. I don't think I drank the most out of anybody I've heard. I don't know, but I'm definitely up there. And I was top and off at, you know, a handle, we have a column handles here. It was a handle about every three days. You can do it. That's exactly right. It's not easy, but you can do it. It's also not as hard as people think either. No, I don't mean like, I mean, it's, it's, you have to get over that rough patch and that's where I feel like people get stuck. Like, you just have to, you have to get over that. And then you feel different. Like, it's, it's just changes. I don't know how else to describe it. There isn't a set set of days. Yeah. You just have to ride this out. And then it flips a little. Yeah. And then each time you get an experience under your belt that you're successful in, you build that confidence up. And then you're ready for the next. Building your sober muscle. That's how this goes. Yeah. And it is one little thing at a time. Yeah. Thank you so much. Well, thank you. If this conversation with Denise felt a little too familiar, right? If you're exhausted trying to control your drinking and you know what you're done screwing around with this, book a call with me. Not because you need more information, not because you need another podcast episode, but because you're ready to actually change your life. We'll talk honestly about where you are. What's keeping you stuck. And what support looks like if you're truly ready to do this work. You can book a call directly at addictiononlimit.com forward slash call. That link is always in the show notes. Addictiononlimit.com forward slash call. If you're ready, I'm ready. And we can get started literally immediately. I hope you loved this conversation with Denise. Such a beautiful story. She's got powerful, powerful recovery. And she continues to show up and do the work. I'm super proud of her. I hope you're having a fantastic day and I will see you next week. You've reached the end of another great episode of the Addictiononlimit.com podcast, Candid and Honest Conversation about Addiction and Recovery. Be sure to visit us at Addictiononlimit.com to join the conversation and access show notes and links to everything we talked about. Love this episode. Please take 30 seconds to subscribe, rate and review on iTunes to help us improve and give you the information you want. Thanks for listening. See you next week.