Share & Rot & Tell with Mina Kimes

Welcome to Pablo Torre finds out I am Pablo Torre and today we're going to find out what this sound is and No kid ever got a playboy as a result Right after this My kid is at Disneyland today How did you how are you not there? It's like a joint birthday Servation for my son and then his best friend who's birthday is this week Benji, but it's unfortunate because so like last year After the Super Bowl. I took them they all came because we were NFL. I was at the suit bed at Disneyland Yeah, after to the MVP parade right and I hooked them up with like the VIP tour guide Yeah, oh, it was like We have the tour guide today. I was like unfortunately we cannot have the $10,000 tour guide every time I have to like space out my Asks there's like in the back. There's a a draft Basically where all of the tour guides get to put claims on celebrities so if they show up That's crazy Who would be if you were a Disney tour guide? Who would be your number one celebrity draft pick that you'd want to give a tour of Disneyland to Wow Right because it's not just like who do you like the best who do you want to be on a line because they're with you They're hanging out with you right they spend all day with you my go-to answer for this kind of question is always March on Lynch But yeah, who also you could just imagine you want to be with someone who you know is gonna have fun Yeah, it's scary. It's somebody but you know he'd have fun there. Oh my god the blast. Yeah, I would Mean there's a whole New York Times magazine article, which is incredible by John Jerry myself and also about like where you go and get Stoned at Disneyland. I would like want someone who was in fact You on the spot. All right Steve Balmer Can you imagine pulling up getting stuck he pulls up His family Did he take you you know behind the scenes through other like the secret hideaway He gets out and he's just I got to just cool off spend a day with my family the happiest Frickin Pablo Tory has Disney tour guide wearing one of those little vests What do you want to talk about today? There's so much that I could talk to you about I want to talk to you about whether Aaron Rogers would come on this podcast I think you would I would like to make a plea for a second here. I know that you and Mina. I know Aaron Don't keep me out. I know. I know that you and me have a thing. I am not I'm not I'm not I'm not I'm not I'm not a part of that whatever that is You and I have never talked Meena Kimes, you know have me to her house for a feature that I did You know like all these people were my friends in the media and I would love to have you in the chair Just to ask questions. It seems like you're in an answering mode and Pitch that's your pitch. That's my pitch open-minded Not here to I'm not gonna show up with like a bunch of files. I promise that You he would probably want to get into some you can bring you can bring his documents. He'll say you can bring documents. I mean look He's he's he's one of us He loves podcasting. He does love podcasting. I think that's that's a safe thing to say has takes a lot of takes Yes, thoughts about where we are as a country. I have questions about where we are as a country I do want to start though. I think with football with the internet though and The state of Texas. I Think we need to get back in to what happened at Texas Ohio State, okay, and this is something that I think I will come back incredible come back Archmaning redeemed all that stuff and I think this feels chewed over Perhaps because the because Twitter has processed it But that's sort of what I want to talk about is the amount of content that came out of this out of this one game Out of this one game out of stuff that wasn't even happening technically in the game, which was a wild game It was like an amazing football game 24 23 unbelievable comeback. Yeah, and the culture war I mean, this is sort of what it says about how popular football is I guess a hundred percent Yeah, like I think we're gonna continue seeing More hot button culture war type stories reactions disputes whatever come out of sports events I mean precisely because of what you said which is sports events for the most popular thing to watch in America right and the way The internet now works is These algorithms will latch on to what is the thing that everyone is talking about a football game and it'll be again other sports events Okay, cool, and then what are the things we can spin out of that that make everyone the angriest so it's just like marriage of incredible popularity mass appeal and then divisive Takes reactions coming out of it. I want to start actually chronologically, I guess because part of what happened and this is all about effectively Texas winning and things are happening as fans of Texas and they had coach Art celebrating or trying to celebrate and the dude who posts this I had never heard of I don't know if you had heard of At Beau French who is the Republican nominee to lead Texas's state railroad commission. Yes. I had never heard of but as I've learned That's like a pretty big job in Texas. You regulate like the oil and gas industry. It's a big deal But his focus on this thing was this photo that I think brings it to our doorstep as I guess broadly speaking members of the Asian American community both around all of that But also people who are wondering like oh wait sports was meant to be a thing That allowed people to blend in and here was Beau French we didn't quote I heard UT graduation this year looked like this. I didn't believe it the problem is now obviously far worse than anyone imagined And the photo which we haven't seen it Is a bunch of kids who are generally of South Asian descent Wearing UT stuff one kid's wearing a cowboy hat to be appointed out another one has a backwards cap They are in this crowd like celebrating So inoffensively joyfully yeah, and inoffensively it is like what you'd see I guess and this is his problem It's what you might see in like the brochure. Yeah And this was immediately Look at all these brown people I I found myself saying wow and I felt not even immediately after I said what is the wow part Obviously, it's repulsive and his reaction is repulsive and we'll get to that But is the wow part more that an ostensibly like public facing Official you know somebody like a like a legit person. This isn't anonymous account on the internet hiding behind a statue avi or whatever This is like a public person Putting his name on this and then you see it you see people respond and say this is disgusting But then you also see it either minimized or co-signed because it's on the platform We're hate propagates the fastest and is the most encouraged is that the wow part to you that like it's not what is being said But that it's being said so nakedly and that hit his own statement isn't Being roundly just criticized. Well, it was also the I thought this is what you guys people who wanted a simulation wanted right We're in a cowboy hat. I mean, I just can't get over it. They are wearing the thing that it looks like when they are They're following your playbook and that's the part where I was like wow and then I remembered And this is where the reason I was like I got to talk to me in about this It emerged because not only is this like an Asian thing and all that stuff Do you remember the jeopardy guy? The this is the uh The South Asian dude Who thanked Alex Trebek for helping him learn English. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. I want to play this clip Because this actually figures in in ways that made me say wow 20,400 for births actor any family members back home cheering you on you know, here's a true story And I grew up I learned English because of you and so my grandfather who raised me I'm gonna get tears right now. He we used to sit on his lap and watch you every day So it's a pretty special moment for me man Thank you very much So I don't just bring this up because you're a jeopardy tournament of celebrity champion champion michael mooney a ptfo correspondent in texas amazing magazine writer reminded me of this birth actor you know he does now now he is a frisco councilman in texas in one of these places that is apparently dealing with this very same strand of Constant political argument about all of the Indians that are here But the thing about birth backer is that Incredibly sweet clip He's a navy veteran. He is a Trump supporter He is a councilman on the magaside And texas tribune reported that he has been sitting through council meetings where all of these speakers are just constantly warning about, quote, an Indian takeover, and it just makes me think about like you think you're wearing the right outfit, you're saying the right things, you're voting the right way, you are literally campaigning or the party that you think would accept you if you do all the things they are asking, and in fact, you are propagating whatever it is your personal philosophy is on that side of the aisle. Instead, you're like, reminded, you're never actually going to be welcome here. The post, and it wasn't the only post, by the way, I saw some other post, that was the one that got the most virality because of the guy being a public figure, but I saw a lot of post circulating on Twitter, shots of the student body with similar racist like complaints. It's awful that it's out there, and I read an article in the UT student newspaper where they interviewed some of the kids in the photo and talked about how devastated they were because they were like, oh, it's so cool, UT's posting me, I'm at the game, this is amazing. And then you get returned to the internet, Twitter, whatever, and you see that. And these students were like, this is a reminder of like it plays into my fears about never being welcome. It was just horrifying and awful. But it's also, as you said, somewhat useful to have like the actual animus like laid so bare, like the post gives the game away, right, which is, this was never the anti-immigrant anti-brown people sentiment is never about assimilation as it purports to be this like lack of assimilation. It's about just pure racism on its face and saying, it's not just that you, it's not that you actually you won't integrate here, it's that you never should have been here in the first place. Well, it's the thing that, I mean, look, I, one of the things I love doing on the show, of course, is making fun of a fake rum swammy, my classmate. And there are many reasons to do so, and I'll continue to do so, frankly. But the thing he's encountered as he runs for governor in Ohio is a version of this. He has tweeted some things that are about, you know, whatever. And I laugh at him for saying we, we, we, we don't respect Erkel enough was one of his takes and I think that's hilarious. But one of the things that he's facing over and over again in his mentions that he has talked about is just like the people that you'd think would be in his base are just attacking him constantly. And that part of like what is to be on Twitter these days, Twitter as the Petri dish that unfortunately does influence, like whatever polling is done, a lot of it effectively is happening on Twitter in your mentions. That's how people are making decisions, certainly at the highest levels. And there's just this, I, part of the while that I said was just the perpetual, I think under estimation of how much the South Asian population is used, though it is not merely like my belief is that you should not be here. It's the I will use you to demonstrate that you should be afraid and therefore you should vote for me. And it's also just like the cynical part of it that's like, it's, it's old school in a way where it's like, yeah, it is helpful to be just like, like this is textbook, it is textbook racism. It's like, it's old school, but people have always had these noxious beliefs. But the mainstreaming of it, the Twitter has a particular platform, but other social platforms as well, amplification of it. And the sense that it's actually more normalized now than it was 10, 20 years ago is kind of shocking. And I think, wow to me, I think what you're constantly wrestling with is just, is this, are these incidents internet phenomena or are they indicative of something in broader and society? And it's very easy for me or it's tempting for me to say, no, this is just these platforms that have gotten increasingly worse and pressed their thumb on the scale to maximize bigotry. But the fact that we've got a public figure and then there's this kind of room reaction to the AI clip story makes you feel like this isn't just the internet. Well, it's also, along those same lines, it's the question of, can we dismiss something that's just happening on the internet? Yeah, right. If the internet is the thing that is actually driving real life in ways that we are constantly dealing with because politics and media and sports all live online and they specifically live on this platform, they live on the everything app. And so the whole thing with Holly Rowe for people who somehow missed this because your algorithm is mercifully different than ours. And God bless if this is how you were discovering this because this also got chewed up in process but in ways that I think are worthy of our inspection here for a second. So Holly Rowe is the ISFN sideline reporter, Steve Sarkisian is the head coach of Texas. And Texas comes back and they win and Sark basically blows her off. You know, he's screaming, let's go Texas blah, blah, blah, blah. Let's add a hook 'em, walks away. And Holly Rowe is visibly just like miffed, walks off screen. And in the post game, this is what Archmaning, the latest generation of Manning, the star quarterback in Texas, is asked and answered. I've seen a few AI edits of stuff but that's about it. I saw AI edit of Sark's interview from time. We got to see him that one, how's it going? I've been slapping Holly Rowe. And look, the video that was AI generated is obviously AI generated and not terribly complicated. It is Steve Sarkisian in that clip that played on TV instead of walking away like winding up and slapping Holly Rowe who falls to the ground. It is the thing that Archmaning found delightful for a time. The laughs in the room are by far the most to me noteworthy part of all of this. Why? Because, and I'm not making excuses for him, I'm not calling him a kid. I know he's 22 years old or whatever. But does it surprise you that 22 year old, like a college football player? Of course not. It only is like consuming. Well, I guess it does surprise me that they think slop is funny because I'm like, this is not. Like anyone who thinks that's wild to me and setting that aside, you know, you see that you're like, it's a little surprising he's not more media trained to not say that at this point. And then to your point, like, this is a family that literally works in media, thrives in media and has a history of having to deal with scandals around women in college. I've just seen a lot of college athlete football players in particular give interviews in the draft process or whatever, and they're often not a finished product. I understand his story makes it different, but I'm with all of us as we say that's, you know, I'm not. I didn't watch that and went, like, you know, same. But the part that really was drawing to me, first of all, why was he asked about clips in the first place in saying question, okay, yeah, imagine that clip again with no laughter. He wouldn't have kept going. Imagine like him say, y'all seeing whatever, or like, you know, laughing or whatever, like, those are adults, male laughs, predominantly. And like that cuts to kind of what we were talking about, which is when we see these things on the internet, we wonder how real they are when you see it, like a tweet, like the one we talked about earlier from a public official, oh my god, that's a real person. When you hear the laughs, like, those are real people and it kind of gives you this feeling that this normalization of sentiments that you, frankly, you know, are regressive and we're not calm and even 10 years ago suddenly feel more present than ever. I am somebody who, like I went to an all boys Catholic school, the idea that like, we're going to make jokes and get these 22 and not in high school, but we're going to make jokes and we know that, you know, it's, it's naughty or whatever, right? We're going to get away with something that we know. Our mom doesn't want us to see our teacher, the oldest thing in the book, I have zero surprise or find that necessarily jarring, but it is, to your point, the difference between we're going to do this quietly over here and we're going to do it in a press conference. We're going to post about it and we're going to put this into a public forum and we're going to laugh together about it. In that part, it's hard to be the person who is like, you should laugh at the thing that you want to laugh at that you know is wrong because you just feel like the teacher in the room. Yeah. And you feel like you're scolding someone and that's no one wants to feel like they're a fun police or whatever, but I just find myself being like, do we really have to explain why this is a thing that we why a video, AI generated or not of an adult man like slapping a woman to the ground was ever a thing we had to as a society again decide maybe let's not laugh about this in public. Yeah. I think what was also just so crazy is the second I saw that it was like, I already know exactly how this is going to play out. Usual suspects will defend, he'll apologize, probably will graciously accept. And then the usual suspects will get angry again that there was an apology in the first place instead of everyone just saying, hey, gosh, what a player made a mistake, you immediately end up to it, move on, and it just sucks that we already know how things. These things will go every time. But I keep going back to those laughs, man, like-- - Can you, I guess-- - That sound is just so like, I don't know. Well, I think the reason why the laughs are so much more true, I don't see, like jarring to me than the actual comment is the laughs are where, like you said, that's kind of the where the sea change has been. College, I keep saying college athletes have, I don't mean, again, I'm not trying to juvenile, infanticize him or whatever, but like you said, young dudes have been saying and doing goofy stuff that they regret, like it's this is not new. I genuinely do feel like the reaction of adult men think like trying to boy, like, grow out on that. That feels like-- - It's a political moment. - Yeah, feel-- well, that's just-- - It's a movement. - That just feels like a pretty good encapsulation of the state of sports media, which is honestly significantly worse, and this is what I'm saying this, that I don't like almost forget it, 'cause it don't want the usual aggregators to latch onto it, and then it spirals into another blowback thing for women. But it's worse for women than it's ever been since I started working in this field, which has been over 10 years at this point, which is wild. And you're not the only one who says that, who believes that. I mean, this is what-- If you again, if you talk to your female colleagues in the industry, this is, again, most visible online, but it's also the thing that I keep on thinking about, like, what are our politics now as a country? And how is it that one party has risen to power on the back of catering to men who feel like they are being told that they can't say what they want to say? - Like, misogyny plays so well in the internet now that everybody's benefiting from it, not everybody. - But I think the logic for a lot of people is like, what's the harm? This is free speech. This is, we get to laugh. You're telling us what's funny or not. You're policing our thoughts. People are at home being like, I want to have fun, and I don't feel like I can't. Whether or not that's actually enacted in their real life, that is the feeling from the hall monitors that they feel like they have to answer to. And that feels un-American. - And I think it's like worth also emphasizing, when we talk about like no one's calling for cancellation here, right? - No. - Like, if anything, people were like, mm, probably gonna want that one back. Ooh, how dare you, like, it's the-- - So it's a small ask to be like, can we just be a little ashamed of having done this thing in this way and laugh at it? - Can't you just apologize and everyone move on? No, that's actually the apology is worse than anything. It's just so tiresome and it's just endless. - Yes, and meanwhile, meanwhile, suddenly Karl Rove is woke. - What do you say? - Karl Rove had called Beau French a bigot at a private lunch event and said he's voting for French's Democratic opponent, and Donald Trump goes on treat social and says, this guy's a stone-cold loser. - And Beau French incidentally keeps doubling down since Saturday, defends the posts, goes on radio, all that stuff, favorite Texans over foreigners, over and over again. And I'm like, you guys made fucking Karl Rove a part of the resistance. - It's a great barometer for kind of what we're talking about, which is even the old lines now look quite. - It's like Karl Rove, like, and subscribe, you know? - See if a podcast. - See on TikTok. - Does Karl Rove have a podcast is a question that I need to Google the answer to? - Sharon Tull with Aaron Rogers and Karl Rove. (laughing) (upbeat music) - So you mentioned that what our brains are doing and what we're consuming is of interest and is kind of what we always end up talking about, I realize, when we podcast at this point together. But the reason why this New York Times opinion essay that I published, I think is worth our discussion, the article, by the way, is titled The Truth about Rainrot, Colin, It's a Cry for Help. And you sent this to me, is because this also kind of surprised me in terms of how I have always just as a shorthand referred to what it is that we're all watching when it comes to slop, when it comes to nonsense on the internet. And I think it's in part because I, mercifully perhaps, I'm not watching the exact thing that Gen Z seems to be very into. - Yeah. - Like I underestimated also what the f*** they're consuming. - So same. Like what I think of like internet, short form video, slop, in my mind. So I guess, let's open the kimono. Why, every time I say that, I regret it. It's the worst possible phrase, but especially for me to say it. - I mean, you really, in our cast of characters, is it maybe even vaguely allowed to say it? - It would be a Hanbok. Okay, so my slop is like, some lady in her apartment saying here, I bought this ugly sweatshirt, watched me turn it into a prom dress. And like a fast forward, like people putting together, like frankly, the end result is never worth it. But I'm like, I've watched for four minutes anyways 'cause I want to see of like, what is she gonna do with those sleeves? How is this gonna come together? So in my mind, that's my slop. And the algorithm knows they're like that. And the other one is like a scene, like a super cut of a lifetime movie. Would there be like, you'll never believe what happens to this housewife at home? And then I'll go down a rabbit hole of like watching, like reading the Wikipedia about the movie, trying to find more clips of the movie and boom, 10 minutes are gone. So those are the two like disgusting things I do on the internet. But that's not what this is about. - And so full disclosure. - Yeah, what's your slop? - So I'm also, I also realized that I am consuming what are known as micro dramas. - Yes, we all are. - I'm like, you get so sucked in by them. - I thought I was above it. - What kind of micro dramas? - And I am not. - It's just, it's just micro dramas about infidelity. Micro dramas about, it's just like soap, it's soap operas. - Yes. - And I realized that it's edited in such a way that has ensnared me. And when I laughed at the concept of micro dramas as like, I would never watch that. I'm like, I'm watching them all the time. - You're like, well, it's not a real movie. - It keeps me hooked. - I'm hooked to the next. - It's retention today. - RIP quibi died too soon. 'Cause that's everywhere now. - So I, by the way, when I was co-hosting Morning Jail the other day, onset was physically in real life. Next to me was Mr. Beast and James Patterson, the author, who've combined for now, of course, best-selling book that they've co-written together. - I saw the picture of them stand. It's a really funny picture because Mr. Beast looks insane as usual. And James Patterson is kind of standing next to him like the mom I threw up posed. It makes no sense. Look it up if you haven't seen the picture. It makes you laugh. - But they have this book and it's whatever you can. - The most dangerous game. - I love that you know about. - I do without a rabbit hole reading about it. - Yes, so the most dangerous game is the book. And I was talking to them on TV and then afterwards. And I kind of realized like, I told Mr. Beast the following sentence, I have read your manifesto. And his manifesto is about, there was this whole thing that was leaked and he was very proud to hear it seemed and I delighted in this part that I had read this. It was leaked or published or whatever. And it was just like his thesis about like how to retention edit things. And it's like here's the graph. Here's how you want to keep people not dipping but like at the very least plateauing. And here's how he's made these things. And I say that because what I complimented him on earnestly was how rigorous his thinking is in terms of how to hold attention. And now when I get to the Gen Z version of this, I'm like compared to what we're about to talk about, Mr. Beast is fucking Martin Scorsese. Like the stuff that I'm watching is microdramas that also by the way, I'm watching watch content. I don't own a watch. - Watch content, yeah. - All guys get this, yeah. - What is the female equipment to watch? - But I'm like it's like skincare. - I'm watching people rank watches. - And you'll watch it all the way through. - And then I'm like, yes. And then I'm like, I haven't even bought one. I don't plan on buying one. And now I'm thinking about it. But like why am I thinking about anyway, that's what I thought we were talking about. - Yeah, what we know, we're watching high art compared to this stuff. - So I'm going to play an example. I mean, I want to have you narrate this because this is largely going to be incomprehensible to the audio audience. And arguably even less comprehensible to anybody who gets to see it. So this is an example of Gen Z Slop. - I'm looking. - Oh my god. It was a dog drinking a cappuccino out of a woman's head that is the cappuccino. He just, it's a chihuahua. She's crying. She's talking to an animated AI stick who comes home from DJing. It's his wife. Or yeah, her wife, her husband, sorry. There's so much happening. I can't keep up with this. Doing play-by-play, this sucks. Dogs now made a new coffee to pour into the wife's head. And the dogs are happy at the end. What the fuck is this? And now the stick is back, and he's next to a crying shark. Rapping. These are rap battles. This is a battle at the top, it. [MUSIC PLAYING] So that's what's going on. OK, so the article is really interesting, because it suggests that Gen Z-- and below, I didn't know what the next one's called-- Gen Alpha. -- are watching these videos as a form of sort of rebellion, because they're so tired of being manipulated by digital content, that they would prefer to just watch something mindless, brain rot, as it's almost like a mental sit-in, like a strike, right? Like I-- A funny way to put it, a mental sit-in. Like I'm just going to go. My brain's going to go on strike right now. Yes. Which is interesting, I would never have thought about it. I never thought about it. I will say not to get all, like, Marshall McClue and here. But I don't-- Medium is the message, though, is-- It's still the same medium, and you're not really-- they're still making money off of you with this. So I don't quite understand the capital-- Like the anti-capital part about it. So I want to talk about that, because the whole notion to even further sort of articulate what the article is pointing out is that nonsense is a response to perpetually being sold things, and feeling manipulated in a way that makes you want to, as you put it, just embrace, quote, "being entranced by an infinite stream of nonsensical TikToks and Instagram reels." And that is brain rot. Is the idea that I'm going to degrade my brain in order to effectively opt out of the economy that I am being subject to. But as you point out, someone's monetizing the cappuccino head lady in the rap battle stick. You're also watching it on TikTok reels, whatever. Unless there's some like independent slop platform out there, I'm not aware of. Did we just sharks? For 50% of my standalone AI slop company, you may. Locally grown heritage slop. But that is-- look, the whole thing here is that I'll read this part. The joke is that there is no joke. The meaning is that there is no meaning. And for a generation that grew up with every digital interaction tracked, measured, and monetized, that refusal is experienced as a form of honesty in a dishonest system. You know what's another form of rebellion against digital capitalism, attention, seeking algorithms? Touch grass. The thing, though, I will say that I also found really interesting in this piece. The author said that overwhelmingly, young people who expressed these feelings about social media and slop and the fact that they wanted to opt out and overwhelmingly said it should be regulated. That was fascinating to me. This is where the seeds of an actual revolution are being planted. What if your product is so viscerally and physically misery-making that people were like, I actually think the government should intervene to save us, to save me from myself, to save me from the fact that the delivery vehicle of my protest is actually the thing that needs to be controlled by the government. And it seems like young people have a more sophisticated view of what that would take than many lawmakers, not just in the US, but internationally, right? Because there's this broader trend. It's really happening around the world where governments are trying to figure out how to crack down on social media for young people. You have outright bans in countries like Australia, some countries in Southeast Asia that are reportedly not really working and unsurprisingly. There's bills, there's one just signed in California, aimed at regulating, basically not banning young people off of social media, but eliminating short form auto play, addictive features, but how actually effective those are is also a matter of dispute, especially when a lot of the tech companies seem to have a hand in or at least are very involved in coming up with these rules. So the foxes in the hen house. That's my read on it, at least. Well, I've talked to people who work at Meta and I was asking them. So what about this $18 billion settlement with these states? This was last month implementing strict new age restrictions, time limit, safety controls for miners in particular, speaking to just the general psychological redatory aspect of social media. And the people I've talked to who work over there, like rank and file people are like, this company is not worried about that. Like this is a settlement, it is-- - We will getcha. - It's a give, but they are not threatened by this. - How do you feel about it as the father of a daughter? - As the father of a daughter? - Both of our children are too young. So this is not a pressing concern, but it is obviously something you, I'm sure you've thought about. - I think that my, the two wolves inside of me, right, are like, I love freedom of speech. I want freedom of expression. I am worried when any government entity gets to make decisions around editorial decision making. And that is real, and we see the potential for abuse every day right now. The other wolf is that there is no more powerful, like politics transcending entity in our civilization than these tech companies. - Yeah. - They will be here longer than any given administration. Their products are not going anywhere, and the idea that we need to set a precedent for the will of the people in some form to regulate them, that seems beyond obvious at this point. - It seems beyond obvious to me as too. I've read the other side, which tends to be the EFF, and there are scientists who have done research who are actually social media, doesn't make kids depressed. And actually, I just don't buy that. - Electronic Frontier Foundation, the nonprofit that protects digital privacy especially consumer rights. - I'm sure this will just draw some of the experts, people will study this out of the woodwork and say it's not been confirmed, but based on my own experience, I really do not want my child to have the same access to addictive social media features that we have right now. - And if you just look about it just logically, what is the prior historical precedent for kids have access to such things? - Right. - We are an untruthed territory. - Yes, I don't know how to do that. - Actually, we can't stop kids from doing all kinds of stuff, guys. We put sensor bars at the newsstand over Playboy. Like, why are we pretending like age restriction is suddenly a new thing? - No kid ever got a Playboy as a result. - My bed is a sovereign state. Do not look underneath it. You're smiling the smile of a (beep) and who is this person? Hold on, is this the name of the (beep) of Ballerina Capuchina. - Oh, that's AI Capuchino Cuphead. - Ballerina Capuchina. - Horrifying. (upbeat music) - So speaking of established favored institutions - Always, always curious to see. - In the competitive ecosystem that they were supposed to dominate, I wanna talk about the Los Angeles Rams. - All right, sorry. Do you wanna step on the segue there? When you start your segues sometimes, I'm like, all right, how's this gonna go? Is he gonna, it's like watching like a guy line up for like a 62 yard feel goal. I'm, you're kind of your steps like a little bit. - And the crowd of game day is saying one more kick. One more kick. Speaking of super teams, let's talk about the Los Angeles Rams. - This is your account. You know this team really well. You've been around this team for years and now this whole thing, the football part of this, was like supposed to be very easy for me to understand. I'm like gonna check in. They're gonna be there at the end. I'm excited to have what, frankly, the Warriors were in the NBA for a while. - Yeah, it's the best comp. - Ratings go up, superstars are there. People get mad, they're fun to watch. And we're gonna have all these plot lines that like inviting casuals. Week two is upon us, and is this over already? - There's so many good sports conversations to be had around this, one of which is our super teams actually good for the sport. We, I think we're on around the horn together through the peak of the Warriors dominance. And I feel like we had that conversation a lot on that show. - Is it unfair? Is it boring? - Is it good for the sport? Is it bad for the sport? you can. is it basically cheating to have like all these guys want to sign up for something that yeah. I guess people are still having it around the Dodgers, you know, to a lesser degree. But I actually think like the Rams losing in week one and immediately losing their star acquisition miles Garrett to an injury for an undetermined amount of time is a really good case study for why you can't really do this in football like you can't basketball right because what was the last time with the Patriots with Randy Moss was that like the closest thing to me. I was trying to think of football comps for what the Rams have done and the Warriors were just a better comp than any and a fel thing right in terms of like this isn't just a bunch of good players. This is the best defensive player in football and then we're going to bring back the former the best defensive player in football and we also traded for one of the best corners in football and this and that. But in football certainly it's not the case with baseball which is obviously doesn't have the card cap. It does come at a cost. I think every time teams do this and I was like why are they allowed to what's going on? Why can't the rest of the league do this? Is this so unfair? You know, well there's a cost. There's a risk that with this type of strategy and they're already the risk just hit a lot earlier than I think that anyone thought it would. What did the Rams give up to make this happen that now might make this not just not a super team but like disastrous. Youth and deaths is what you give up with this type of approach, right? Traded away a young player, traded away draft picks that could be spent on other young players, you know, in acquiring Garrett. Bring back Donald again is not really any cost at all because he's they're not paying in that much money or whatever. But these are all saps that would otherwise go to other players. Giving away draft picks for Trent McDuffy, first round draft pick for him. He's not an old player but he's not young. And then by the way, youth steps and then future maneuverability. The Rams have a ton of really good players who are going to be free agents next year. They still have not paid Pukanakua, Kobe Turner as a star, Byron Young, Steve Avila. These are like the best young players on the team and the bill is coming due. So they're not going to be able to pay all of them. Now they won't be able to pay some of them because the way this has worked out for them is actually not that onerous financially in the future. It's more so that now they do not have a lot of young depth at a few positions. The offensive line is kind of the most notable one and that hasn't even been affected yet. So, for example, the draft pick they sent for Trent McDuffy, the draft pick they spent on Tyson and so on. Those could have been spent on offensive line depth. If a tackle goes down, they do not have good depths behind them. So they're, it's a more fragile build than a team with a lot of young good players instead of a few older, really great players. Right. I mean, look, so the GM and the team, less need, his whole thing was f**king them picks. And I was like, on a shirt that they wore and all this stuff. And so, and it's just funny again, so let's compare it to in the NBA stuff, the whole reason the Clippers are in this nuclear winters is because they gave up all the picks for Kauai and I'm not saying that Jared vs. Shade Gilders Alexander, but there is something to the, we're going in for right now. We need the superstar. Get all get, get even our promising young guy out of here, f**king them picks. You're our five first rounders, etc. Was this a miscalculation? I don't think so. I know it feels like it right now. And obviously, look, if Miles Garrett, if the injury lags, then yes, obviously, but I still think this team is going to be extremely good. And if I'm the Rams, I still do everything that they did 10 times out of 10, because you really maximized your shot, the Super Bowl. Here's what I am finding potentially very amusing about this whole experiment is that this is not just a team that went all in for this season and they got beaten embarrassingly by the Niners in Australia. And it's not just that Miles Garrett, who. You interviewed him, right? I've interviewed him a few times. Yeah, I personally think he seems super endearing. He interviewed him more than I've interviewed Aaron Rodgers. So I guess he's also my close personal friend. Yeah, exactly. If we're rating friends, Miles Garrett, first stringer, so to speak, it's beyond that. It's the idea that all these guys, I mean, Stafford, and Sean McVay, you know, this team's weird. Sean McVay was threatening to retire, and now he's not. Matt Stafford also similarly seems to be almost done, but he is so clearly not that it was awkward when they drafted his replacement and Sean McVay had to get in front of everybody and be like, I'm on team Matt. Team Matt. Never met him. No, I do that other guy is. And then Aaron Donald did retire and unretired. Yeah. And like, are all these guys just having mutual midlife crises? Did all of them sync up? Like, what is the moon? What is happening? Sync up like their cycles out here. You can say that. What's the male equivalent of that? Exactly. The male equivalent of that is threatening retirement and then not. I think it's a great, like, as you like list all the crazy stuff that's happened around this. Who is also his own, like, file of just like controversy and injury and insanity. Yeah. That is something that also kind of got, I've, he, I talked about his pending contract, the fact that Nekuah has had, you know, the domestic violence accusation, the incidents off the field. Yeah. I hang out with streamers all the time. He's like, he's trying to think neon and I'm like, he's looking to go as seems like a ballerina, cappuccina guy. Definitely does. I've interviewed him as well and I think that's accurate. But what I would say is this. I think the fact that all of these things kind of are happening at the same time. This team is operating this way, reflects how in the NFL it is so rare to like have complete conviction that you can win a Super Bowl. It's a team that coming off of last season firmly believed they should have won the Super Bowl. They didn't. The CX were better, right? And you go into this season now with that continued belief and that creates, it sets off a cycle of decisions that you would not find with a team that didn't have, because, you know, every team, not every team, every team, a lot of the NFL knows they're not going to win at the start of the season. Are you going to go all in? Is a conversation that the public does not hear as bluntly as is being discussed in your actual like war room? Totally. And there are other teams that have, quote, unquote, gone all in with moves in the past, making big trades, doing, you know, huge swings, etc. Trading up in the draft for a player is a thing you do. Maybe if you think this is that we can do, he can contribute this year, etc. But the level of, I think what it speaks to is like the very unusual degree of confidence that Los Angeles had going into this offseason because of the quarterback, the coach, the existing talent on the team. But this is the thing about the NFL. This is why Adam Silver says this. It, I mean, in the end, the league, people will watch the Super Bowl. Yeah. Really? It's like in the NBA, they're like praying. Please let the next be in the finals. Yeah. Please let this not be Indiana Oklahoma City. Please, you could throw ballerina Capuchina out there for half time. You could throw, it doesn't even matter who's in the game. Like that's the position of strength that allows you to do all this stuff. Right. Yeah. The NBA or the NFL does not need the Rams to be a super team or a villain or whatnot. It's just more fun for fans. It's just more fun for me. It's more fun for people who, perhaps this is, I don't know, this is this is a throughline in this whole thing that we've been talking about today. It's that like there are some things that I think I feel great about being agitated by. There are like these, there are these things, these topics, these venues where it's like we should be insane to each other. We should be make fun of each other, we should insult each other, we should be rude, we should have offensive memes, all that. And there are some places where there are cries for help. And I'd like to just make sure that sports remains the fun kind. Yeah. The fun kind of you're driving me f***ing nuts and I hate you. A low level of villainery is enjoyable. But what a just like fantastic think result for the league to remind people that any given Sunday. And that's why it's the best sport on earth. Oh god. Mina is not a friend. Mina is not a fan of BrainRotch. She is a fan of concussions. That is the difference. How dare you? And that is the difference. And Aaron Rodgers, guess what? I draft you as my number one is the VIP tour pick. I want to hang out with you and go on rides. You and me on the teacups together. "Being our own little ballerina" kept him up, he's stupid ballerina, he's got it to you. Pavlotore Finds Out is produced by Walter Averoma, Maxwell Carney, Ryan Cortez, Juan Galindo, Patrick Kim, Neely Lomon, Rob McRae, Laura Nukem, Matt Sullivan, Claire Taylor, and Chris Tumenello. STDU Engineering by R.D. Systems, Sound Designed by Andrew Bersick, Digital Strategy by Bayley Carlin and Andrew Northearn, Beam Song, as always, by John Bravo. And we'll talk to you next time. I just kind of glipsed myself in the shot for the first time, and I had an unfortunate realization, which is, I look like you today, by the way. Does this not look like a jacket that you would wear? Oh, you have a work jacket, a blue work jacket. It's not a work, I guess. A jacket, you have a work jacket, you have a blue jacket. They call it, they call it as like barn jackets, right? Yeah, it's like French workwear jacket. French workwear. We don't even have time to talk about this, but I love lanterns, obviously. And I'm like, you know, who owns how do you wear it in the jacket? Is that the jacket that he wears? I've been wearing this for years. Wow, copped your style. Man, in brightest day and darkest night, no podcasts shall escape. It looks just as good on you. Thank you, and podcasts.