Shane's Russia Tutorial

[MUSIC PLAYING] What does the world's hottest show about queer hockey players falling in love have to do with the College of Europe? In today's podcast, we all discuss heated rivalry and its episodes one through three and consider one of the major tensions early in the series, which is Shane's ignorance and naivete, particularly regarding the fact that Ilya comes from Russia. Warning, there will be spoilers. Had Shane enjoyed the experience of being the College of Europe student, he would have been exposed to a multinational student body from over 50 countries. And this may have helped him better understand Ilya, who repeatedly expresses reluctance to return to Russia, much to Shane's surprise. So today's episode is Shane's Russia Tutorial. I'm Michelle Chang, director of the Transatlantic Affairs Program of the College of Europe and President Professor in European Politics and Governance. I'm joined by my colleague, Anne Cohoes. [LAUGHTER] So my name is Luis Matos. I'm an academic assistant here at the College of Europe in the European Politics and Governance Studies. And yeah, I guess the love for TV series and for gay hockey players and geopolitics join us all together for today. But yeah, let's start with a quick recap of the first two episodes, shall we? So I mean, everything starts in the episode right, which introduces us to rival hockey players, Ilya Rosanov, and Shane Hollander, who's competitive attention, quickly evolves into a spicy, spicy, intense sexual chemistry. They first meet before the championship game, where Shane's team loses six months later. Shane joins the Montreal Metro as well as Ilya, signs with the rival Boston Raiders. So they're defying the professional rivaling in the two main characters. Both face-confesting family pressures, whilst Shane's parents are supportive and proud, the Ilya's father is quite critical and emotionally distant. And their rivalry deepens on the ice, but off it, they repeatedly find themselves drawn together. After recogniting during a commercial photo should they begin a secret sexual relationship, navigating Shane's uncertainty about his sex and his relative, but also Ilya's more experienced teasing confidence. As media starts to hype their rivalry, their private relationship intensifies in secret hotel room encounters and coded phone aliases. It's a typical secret love story between two gay men, I guess. Meanwhile, Ilya struggles with financial demands from his brother and concerns over his father's declining health. Their attempts to meet regularly are frequently disrupted by schedules and circumstance. At the rookie of the year celebration, one by none other than Shane Hollander. Attention resurfaced when Shane misinterprets Ilya's mood as bitterness rather than anxiety about returning to Russia. The episode ends with a hit-tied rooftop kiss that highlighting their unresolved emotional conflict. And I mean, I guess from this, we start episode two, no? Yes, so I would like to first start by saying that episode one begins in 2008. So I just want to go and establish this. This will be important later as we contextualize what it means that this affair began in 2008 and also establish that it is epic, that it spans a decade. So episode two, we're in 2011. And we see a flurry of texts sent between Shane and Ilya as a relationship continues to build beyond their initial physical attraction. By 2014, both Ilya's Boston Raiders and Shane's Montreal Metros have made the playoffs and they enjoy a steamy night together, which is one of the high points of their relationship thus far in the series. Then our boys head to Russia for the Winter Olympics in Sochi. And although they agreed they would not see each other while in Russia, Shane spots Ilya in the Iriana and approaches him only to be brushed off. As the audience, we see the pressure Ilya's under as his father's health worsens and Ilya is be raided for failing to win gold on home ice for the Russian team. In the summer of 2015, we learn that Ilya has been ghosting Shane ever since the Olympics. And they're now set to present an award together in Las Vegas, where they reconcile in the restroom and later meet in Ilya's hotel room. Both have been struggling with their growing feelings for one another and their impossible situation as heated rivals in the hyper-masculine sport of hockey. Moreover, Shane repeatedly assumes he and Ilya are more similar than they are, not understanding that Ilya returning to Russia to see his family is not the happy time that Shane associates with visiting his family in Ottawa. (laughing) - Well, you thought that there were only two gays in hockey? - Well, think again. Episode three kind of interrupts the love interest in between Hollander and Rosenelk to introduce two new characters that also have some type of sexual tension. Yeah, we have the new couple, which draws a little bit from which we read game changer books. So we drift away from the original book that sprouts the TV series into the game changer and the star hockey player Scott Hunter, as well as a smoothie bar barista in New York. The romance is markedly different from the intense rivalry fueled by the dynamic previous episodes. Well, instead of a slow burn intense, tension heavy affairs caught and keep actually developed a nice relationship quickly that ends into a more soft and conventional love story that we're used to in typical comedic romance, I guess. The two meet through flirtatious encounters that keeps workplace so at the smoothie barista workplace and eventually progress into a date after meeting at a gala. Their relationship accelerates rapidly moving from flirtation to intimacy and domestic closeness within a short enough time. However, a central complication emerges as Scott is, I guess, like most hockey players in today's world, closeted, but at the same time, Kip is openly gay. So this creates clearly a tension as Kip is much more emotionally invested, Scott insists on keeping the relationship secret due to fears about his career and public image. As their honeymoon phase fades, the strain of secrecy takes its toll. Scott avoids public appearances with Kip, of course, and backs out of attending his birthday celebration despite claiming he eventually wants to promote. Keep girls increasingly unhappy, being hidden and ultimately ends the relationship. The episode with Scott heads into the social Olympics where symbolically conceals the lucky banana stocks that Kip actually gave him beneath another pair, enforcing the theme of hiding his true self from the rest of the world. And yeah, I guess we are at the end of episode three at this point. - Thank you. I totally did not get that metaphor. That was very good. I just thought it was cold in the socks with thin, so you're going to fall off. - But okay. So next we would like to turn to two college of Europe community members to help us with Shane's Russia tutorial. First up, I'd like to welcome Louise Emselon, a student in the European political and governance studies program. Prior to coming to Bruges, Louise received an MA from the Sorbonne and international relations with the focus on Russia. Louise, why is the year 2008 when our show begins so significant? - Thank you for having me. I think 2008 means something very different depending on where you're attending. For Shane in the North American audience, 2008 is remembered mostly for the global financial crisis. But from a European perspective, it was also the return of war and our continent, 16 years after the collapse of the US's R. The tension did not just appear in August, it started with the Rose Revolution in 2003 and the shift toward the West. But the real turning point was the NATO Summit in Berkarest in April 2008, where the Alliance provides future membership to Georgia. That promised triggered a massive military escalation with so Russian troops advanced to the outskirts of the Bili Sea and by August 26th, Russia recognized independence of the South of Tietia and Abkhazia. To mean the show capture the end of an illusion, we Europeans wanted to believe in soft power and diplomacy, Shane embodies that frail play man-sense. But I live in a world where a real politic, where wolves can chain overnight. I've under the dynamic, fascinating, because it feels like a clash between Western idealism and their hard-reality we face on the European continent. Well, the TV show actually builds towards the Olympics from 2008 in Beijing to 2013, so to right. So how does, in your opinion, the 2008 war color the way that these play from their national teams? It is fascinating to look at this through the lens of Russian South power. After the collapse of the USSR in 1992, Russia used sport and the illoping games that were such it to project an image of renewed strength. The goal was to prove that Russia, as a new state, was once again a great power, capable of dominating the world stage. At this time, Russia was also trying to find its new identity. The official discourse began to present Russia as the defender of traditional values against the CAD and West. The strategy dominated in 2013 with the gay propaganda law one year before Sochi, actually. The slow frame the opposition to LGBT identity, not just as a policy, but as a constitutive element of the nation's identity. This creates a massive disconnect in the stakes for the characters in the series. When Ilya has to choose between coming out and returning to Russia, he realizes he cannot do both in the eyes of the states. You cannot be gay and a Russian patriot. That is a tragic tension of his character. - Thank you for that, Louise. Building on what you've just said, heated rivalry is a massive hit globally. But we're also think that it's being pirated heavily inside of Russia. So given what you've just said about the 2013 propaganda laws and in light of the November 2023 Supreme Court ruling that labeled the LGBTQ movement as an extremist organization, how is this even possible? - During the Soviet era when the books were banned, people would copy them by hand or type them out secretly to pass to friends. This is what is called Sam's Dats. What we're seeing with heated rivalry is just this digital version. This highlights a massive disconnect between the Kremlin and the private lives of Russian. The state says Ilya was enough is a next dream is symbol because of who he loves. But the Russian audience sees a Russian hero who is complex and strong. For a Russian today, down loudings this show is a quite act of rebellion. It is in fact interesting to see that this series is once and often resonate both with Westerners and Russians in today's context. What I also appreciate is that the show makes a crucial distinction between the Russian regime and the Russian people. This villain in the show is an Ilya, but the system has dropped in. It allows the audience to retry a Russian hero without endorsing the Russian states. It's humanizes the enemy in a way that is actually quite where in the Western media right now. - Thank you, Louise. So next up we would like to talk to Coralie Ballier, the academic assistant and the master of Transatlantic Affairs program. Prior to joining us in Bruges, Coralie studied European interdisciplinary studies as part of the College of Europe's Nettelin program and she also has a special interest in Russia. So Coralie, could you tell us the significance of 2008? - Yes, thank you. First of all for inviting me for the podcast. I'm really happy to be here and discuss this show with all of you. I will talk about the significance of 2008 to add a little bit on what Louise already said. I will not go into deep on the Russia-Georgian war because it was already mentioned, but to me 2008 is a date that we do not necessarily have to put as a significant date, but it's part of a bigger long-term relationship between Russia and Europe that has always been a little bit conflicted. So it was a little bit the end of the false hopes that Louise mentioned of the West towards Russia, but it was also a little bit like the end of the false hope that Russia also had about itself and its relation that it could build with the West. Russia was always in this way of thinking that they want to build themselves and to show themselves as a great power and with the collapse of the USSR, they needed to rebuild that image of a great power. So there's that. And at the beginning of the end of history, as the Cold War was mentioned, you get to the victory of the liberal capitalistic system and so on, and Russia really, really tried to get into the train of this while still trying to keep its own identity. So not becoming a completely vessel of the US, for instance. So 2008 actually follows two decades of liberation of Russia, of being closer to the West, closer to, especially Western European countries, closer to the US. And you can see that also through other things than economic liberalization, but also through education and so on. So especially in terms of higher education, we had a lot, really a lot until the 2010s, a lot of Russian universities were trying to get close cooperation with Western university. And Russia was really boosting its universities to become like some of the top best world universities. And as we already discussed with Professor Chang, even the College of Europe had an agreement with M.G. Moe, which is the University for International Relations in Moscow. And Russia was part of Erasmus Plus, and they were really trying to attract as well a lot of Western students. So they were sending a lot of Russian students to study in Germany, in France, in the US, and so on. But we have a clear goal to bring those talents back home and to help Russia become a great power again. Some people actually say that true shift was not 2008, but 2007 with Putin's very famous Munich Security Conference pitch. And 2008 was the date where Medvedev came to power. So there was also a little bit this hope that Medvedev was seen in the West as more liberal than Putin, as more open to the West than Putin was. And the war in Georgia was actually a huge drawback for the West, because it was under Metvedev's presidency. And we all built this hope that Medvedev would actually bring Russia even closer to the West. So there's a little bit of this tension ongoing between Russia and Europe and the West in general, with trying to get closer, but at the same time, still trying to rebuild itself as not completely a partner, or a vessel, but as an equal great power. No, that's super interesting. I mean, the, as we know by now, the program actually evolves quite fast. It's now in 2008, and by the end of episode two and episode three, it's already in 2014. So of course, 1000 is extremely important as a, as a geopolitical date, I mean, beyond everything that you talked about with regards to Russia, West relations. It's also the, the, the start of the financial crisis, the whole financial crisis, and everything has a role to play, but also 2014, and the social Olympics themselves have a, a brother geopolitical significance, I guess. And you can you please talk a little bit about it. Yeah, of course. The social Olympics, well, first of all, I will start with a fun fact. The social Olympics were the most expensive Olympic games, Summer and Winter combined ever. Yeah, yeah, no, but that's still a crazy fact to me, right? So 2014 actually comes on the peak of like a, they get long repression in Russia. So one we could say that it started in 2008, that doesn't make a decade, I know, but it's still like shows that there was a, a move from liberalization in Russia to repression, especially on the domestic aspect of what it's like to be in Russia in the post, US is our Russia. And the social Olympic meant to put in, as I said earlier, this willingness and this desire to show to the rest of the world that Russia was back at the table of the great powers. And this is not something that is typical to Russia only, to use sporting events as a way to show that they're a great power and they are at the same level as the other good, as the other like great countries that can organize like super good Olympic games. But yeah, this was super important for Putin. And we can see like the social Olympics were not the only thing that mattered for Russia like the FIFA World Cup. And so on, they organized a lot, really a lot of international sporting events just to make Russia great again. If I can say that on the world stage. So we also need to put back the social Olympics in its own context. So there was repression and the West was aware of those repression and was criticizing Russia for those internal repression. So how do you do when you're a country that wants to be seen well by the West and the West sees what you're doing and criticize you, but at the same time, you want to have the winter Olympics, you know? So the Russian regime ahead of the social Olympics was actually trying to move a little bit towards the West. They released some political prisoners, notably the Pussy riots, which is an important movement for women and LGBT rights in Russia. But it was still not enough like during the, during the such. So this was on the way to the social Olympics, but during the social Olympics, there was still massive repression going on. The Pussy riots, who were just released from prison, were like, "Great, we have the winter Olympics. We're going to go to suchy and do something." And they did. And they got arrested again. Yeah. And there were LGBT protest as well in suchy and same thing. Like the repression was very violent and the matured, that's nobody would see that. So when And you see the coverage of the social Olympics by Western media. They rarely talk about this, which is a little bit of a shame. When we talk also about 2014, the social Olympics was not the only thing that really mattered in the geopolitical thing, in the geopolitical scene of Russia, but there was also the relation with Ukraine. And so that happened later, that happened kind of during the social Olympics. So in Ukraine, there were already mass protests. The Euro-Maidan was kicked off because the Ukrainian presidents decided to not sign the cooperation agreement with the EU, but decided to sign the cooperation agreement with Russia instead. So that's a really massive protest in Ukraine. And this was a little bit shadowed by the social Olympics from the perspective of the rest of the world, but not for the Ukrainians. And Russia really saw those protests in Ukraine as a way for the West to humiliate Russia during their big winter Olympics. So how dare the West do that? So, the West was a very important part of the world. So, Koryla, you've described a very tumultuous relationship between the West and Russia over the years. Could you talk some about the revival of Russian characters in Western mainstream media? Yeah. Actually, I wanted to zoom out a little bit from the show to talk about how Russian characters are portrayed in Western media. And give a little bit of a counter-argument to what Luis said earlier about the fact that Russian characters can be separated from the Russian state. It's also very interesting to see that the Russian government is currently not actively trying to censor a heated rivalry. Actually, they are letting it go on VK, which is the most popular Russian so-for-media. They don't care about having the Russians seeing this, it's their fight. And seeing that, in the West, should give us a warning alarm about if Russia, the Russian government currently is fine with having a Russian character portrayed, it doesn't matter if it's gay or not, but portrayed in Western media in a good light that helps Russian propaganda in some way. Yeah. Right. That's what you say. But that's also because I follow a lot the reports done by Baltic countries, Finland and so on. And those countries are so used to see that. They are so used to see Russia being able to export its culture and saying it's not linked to the government. And that's why I swear, you can enjoy Russian culture without endorsing Russia. And that's a massive problem that we have. Also because I've seen a lot of central Eastern European, very conflicted about the heated rivalry, because they were like, I'm so glad to see LGBTQ representation from central Eastern Europe, but I am so sad that it has to go through a Russian character again. Like we want representation that is not from Russia. And there was a lot of films or a series that depicted Russian characters that were LGBT, but we put less on the spotlight films or series that actually depict LGBT characters coming from smaller Eastern, central Eastern European countries. So for instance, I'm thinking about a film that I saw, it's a Romanian film, it's called 3 kilometers to the end of the world. And it depicts the story of this little guy from a village in Romania, his gay, and their like his parents find out and you follow the story of all of this. And it was super well made and I'm really sad that this is not put more forward. And then to come back to the main point of the question, the revival of Russian characters in Western media, it's not something that is very rare in Western media. Actually, like you can see the film Anora that actually won the Valmador, the most prestigious film festival and the Sachtos Oscar. And the Sachtos Oscar. Like, there are always Russian characters that are depicted in Western media and we are always trying to show them in the light that is like, oh, look at them, they're suffering from the hand of the governments and so on and so on. And I think we need to have a critical view on that and still be aware of what it can serve Russia. Of course, it still goes to show the identity building that the show can have. I mean, it's an impressive power to look at how we can portray such an image of a nation by this full narrative of the victim within. It's a very interesting point. Okay, thank you very much. Both Coralie and Louise for your insights about where Ilya Rosanov came from. To anything's on a lighter note, we're going to bring things back to the show itself with a few lightning round questions. So, one favorite scene from Episode 1, Louise. Oh, from Episode 1, that's hard. I honestly really do like the start scene when they're in the parking lot and Shane and Ilya actually meet and when they separate and Ilya just turns to Shane and says, you will not be so nice when I beat you. That's honestly great setup. Great setup. Great setup. Okay, Coralie. Ilya really had the same scene when I really liked was still from me. The whole interaction, you know, they're putting Ilya as this like great introduction, there's like, you shouldn't smoke here. It's like, okay. It's you're going to do about this. Is it that boy, if I remember? No. Louise, for me it's a much darker moment. Maybe it has to do with my personality, but I really liked when Ilya was in the first one. When so, they're both at Sertial Lampix and Shane tries to come for Ilya and Ilya reacts with hostility. I thought it was really interesting because you can see a real disconnect between them. Like, I mean, Shane try to record for him in like as a friend trying to hug him or saying kind words to him, but Ilya sees it as a state failure. I think it's much more deeper for him and I thought it was really interesting because you can see that love cannot conquer all in such a political, a concurs all actually. So I thought it was interesting to see this dicks connect, but yeah, I mean, there are many moments that I cannot talk about that are very interesting as well. Sure, sure. Okay. For me, it was a tie. So yeah, I'm not going to make you choose if you've got a couple either. So one, I love the shooting of the commercial together that ends in a fit of giggles. I thought that was very charming and highlighted their growing connection and their chemistry. And the other thing I thought was hilarious was when they agreed to meet and Shane puts on a suit. What are you realizing? No, what am I doing? Let's see. Okay. So episode two, do we have a favorite scene? Will you like to highlight? Luis? I'm not sure if I'd say scene per se. I like the growing amount of scenes in between Ilya and his teammates. I think those are really interesting. You can really get the character of Ilya from those, especially when you get the whole blush scene of like, oh, Russians don't bless. That to me was was nice. It has a comedic moment to it, of course, but I think it really is character building. And I really enjoyed that part. Anyone else? I guess I cannot enjoy the show without seeing the geopolitics of it because I'm college of Europe staff. But I also really like the parts when they are at the social Olympics. Is it in episode two? Yeah, it's that's it. That's it. Sorry. So like, we were talking about all of the episodes. Yeah, in episode two. No, I really liked the part where they're in Sotchi and the innocence of Shane O'Lander was like, what? It's bad to be gay in Russia. Yeah. That's true. I've been an American hockey player who's even in the head. Now it's like, where did you grow up? Yeah. What did he-- He looks so innocent. Well, that's why he needs the tutorial. Yeah, that's exactly-- He's so cute. I think that's also why he's so cute. Yeah, Shane just doesn't know. So my favorite episode-- sorry, my favorite scene from episode two was watch-- it was the restroom scene, where watching Shane go for being so angry and hurt with Ilia ghosting him after the Olympics. And seeing him just melt in the face of Ilia Rosinoff's charm and winning him over to the point where he gets to, wow, genetic. And you see-- I think it's an exception. He is all in. OK, so episode three, do we have any favorite moments? For me, I really have one this for me. It was art crushing. It was-- it was right at the end when we go back to the So Chill Olympics from the perspective of Scott. And they are having that discussion between Shane and Scott and about-- in the restaurant-- and they're talking about this whole idea of being gay in Russia. It's super romantic. And then you just pan into Scott's face, and you see that he's holding it so hard to not grumble and to not crack. And it's honestly hard breaking for me. Yeah, that's also one thing that I really liked and the second episode when we see the So Chill Olympics. And actually, I saw Scott at the stable, and I was like, something's going on with him as well. The gay d'arris. True. Can you imagine? Just to say, I knew. I wasn't surprised when I saw the third area. So anyway, no, but I really like-- Because the girl's the good and the girls. I wasn't-- there is not one thing that I can really pick from the third episode because I really enjoyed it all. And it resonated a lot with my own personal experience, but also the experience of all of my LGBTQ friends from Central and Eastern Europe who are in relationship, but they cannot really be in those relationships publicly. And that's really, really hard breaking. And I really liked the fact that there was a whole episode talking about this. But from different perspective, because of course, we've all shined in Ilja, but we also see like a different perspective from an older player. And yeah, I really liked it. You know, of course, I mean, bringing back to today's reality, and you look at Netherlands, and the great par minister with is now publicly partner that is an Olympian, but I mean, their story, there I was reading here, they had an article on the media, about how they met and how that whole relationship evolved. And it was very much reminiscing on Scott Hunter and Gip, it was honestly, I mean, it's still today, we're in 1026, and we still have the dynamic that it was, there were so common in 2008, as in the nine upwards of, it's honestly, it's insane. - Dude, it's like, if you're out, you need to accept that you're being like the person you are is going to be political at the moment. And this is like a very heavy weight to do. Like even if you're American. - Personally, what I liked in episode three was actually the fact that it was less about geopolitics and more about the worst in gaze on the LGBTQ community. And I thought it was really hard breaking to see that. Scott really loves him, but he thinks that he cannot come out of the closet. And I thought it was really hard breaking. And at the same time, it was so cute, it was so nice to step out a bit from geopolitics and to be more, to like a comedy, love comedy, like more classical one. And so yeah, I would say that those musy moments were very hilarious. I really liked them, but yeah, I think at the end, you just feel very frustrated at the end of the episode. And you feel like you need some more, more comedy, more love. - Less, less sad stories, please. - Yeah, I thought that scene where Scott told Kip that he knows he can be a lot and all of the constraints he faces in his life, but just wants him to stay. Please will you stay? And that was very moving for me. Okay, so next up, what do you think are the best lines from the first three episodes? So episode one, Lleish? - Yeah, but episode one. Interesting. Honestly, I already said it, but I think for me, it's the, you'll not be so nice when I bring you that. - That's great. - It's so iconic. I can't. - I honestly cannot remember from each episode because I only watched them once. - Sorry. - Sure. - But I think it's from episode two, when you mentioned it, when Ilia says, I do not blush. - I might have I blushed. Russians do not do this. - Yes, it's like, yeah. Sure. - Yeah, I agree. I think it's really funny to see this, I think Canadian actor trying to have this Russian accent, that is actually really good. I thought he was Russian. - He's American. - Yes, sorry. But I thought he was Russian. I think it was, he was really good in the character. Yeah, maybe not perfect, but I would say from someone who cannot speak Russian, it sounded really good. - It's not in the room, the currently is looking on the Sundays. - I'm thinking on the same thing. I'm just saying that sometimes he's Russian sound a little bit dualingo-ish. - Oh, wow. (laughing) - I keep it. - I'm Russian in like six months. It's super impressive. - I was, super impressed, still by his accent, but it's just that like sometimes you can tell that he's like, okay, I need to remember those lines and, you know, sometimes he's delivering them as if he was speaking English and so it doesn't sound like proper, proper in Russian, but yeah, I agree. He was good, he was good. - He was great. My favorite line was an unspoken line. It was in the text from episodes one through three. And as we didn't even kiss. - Oh yeah, that was so intense. - And message, you know? - Yeah. - Oh yeah. - That from episode three, and this is me being like the basic game in the room, but episode three, I just love how Scott says, okay. And it's, (laughing) Okay, so finally, we have the category of rewatch reward. So a third of heated rival reviewers, even rival reviewers, have watched the show more than once. So for those of you that have watched the show more than once, is there anything that you appreciated or noticed during your rewatch? - Ooh, okay, so for me, it's the folding of the clothes. And if you know you know, I will not say more, but it's the folding of the clothes. - I didn't have time to watch them twice. Like I tried to go to gay bars and Brussels that were actually screening them, but-- - To be a gender. - Then sponsor, at this point. - I would say that I maybe understood more Ilya when I watched it again. And I think this is how I, yeah, I liked Ilya more than before. Maybe I could understand more where he was coming from. I think that's what is very interesting. And also, I thought it was so interesting to have scots in a episode three. So when you watch back the episode one, you say it completely differently. - Yeah, that's true, that it does reward rewatching and you start noticing a lot of different things that you didn't the first time because it's taken with such care, the director had really done a lot there. I would say one thing that stood out to me was the scene where Ilya is watching TV and Shane is giving an interview in French and Ilya saying, how does he be perfect? - He's being correct. - In French. When I mean, Ilya is speaking two languages all the time. But somehow he's elevating Shane being able to speak English and French. And so I thought this was also interesting in how Ilya viewed him. Because Ilya is also criticized or teased quite a bit for his English by Shane. So this is an issue that comes up again and again. Another thing that I appreciated in a rewatch is an episode three. You actually see a poster for the Rose Landry movie at the bodega when Kip goes to go and buy the socks. - That's wonderful. - Oh yes, little Easter egg. So it's time to wrap up our heated rivalry podcast. We hope you enjoyed recalling some of your favorite moments and maybe learned a little something during Shane's Russia tutorial. If you enjoyed this, please like and subscribe and maybe we'll do another. Thanks a lot, tell me my participants. [BLANK_AUDIO]