"Seth Meyers"

you know i've heard this for years uh being in the hollywood business that for every 100 auditions you'll book one job so just keep going and keep going and i thought gosh for every 100 episodes of smartless there's always one good one so we got about three in the can welcome to smartless guys guess what's coming up in a couple yeah yeah i know we gotta mention oh my god yeah the hollywood hollywood we're gonna be at the hollywood bowl october 17th and not just there like not hanging out actually doing a show we're gonna be on the stage yeah yeah and if you don't have tickets yet you go to smartless.com slash live is that right wait what's it what is it smartless.com slash live oh my gosh that's pretty easy and and for that they're gonna they're gonna get a double guest is that right yep there's two guests and we got some fun we got some fun surprises yeah really yeah we got some fun surprises all for the price of one ticket yeah and a nice beautiful october october 17th correct right a fall night out there it's gonna be gorgeous and and you yeah you buy a ticket and you can't you can't put a price tag on a smile what a great sell you know will you're the best anyway it's gonna be a great night hopefully as great as this next guest coming up guys let's get to the episode you can hear me now there he is listener and you've just been you spent all night on your computer in incognito mode for we don't know why but we just had to change all my settings sure my usernames sorry um if you got hacked it would be the most boring hack for a hacker it would just be all baseball stats yeah and list of list of like movie stuff yeah and i you know when i get all the the cookie alerts you know would you like to reject all cookies or whatnot and i and i and i i do i do reject them i know sean quick question sean have you ever yeah god beat you um but um but um i don't have any i don't have any secrets and you know so like my my my instinct is to accept the cookies because then i don't get ads for things that i don't need you know like uh right um you know skin skin skin rashes and things like that i i get i get ads for jb but you you don't have secrets but you used to be you there was a time where you were just built on secrets yeah well i no i think i was i was i was i was doing things at a time when we didn't have uh phones and things i know yeah yeah to photograph us and even then i wasn't i wasn't i was never a bad boy it's so boring even my bad days were boring when you say bad boy like the idea of you like yeah like in a leather jacket and then you flip the collar up you know yeah or like could you imagine me ever trying to like mix it up with like a paparazzi guy that gets too close to me and i take a swing and i'm like sean penn and then i just get my ass beaten you know repeatedly i can see i could actually see that wait have you ever owned a leather jacket quickly either of you of course yeah yeah i have but they were they were they were soft soft and suede they weren't even like manly lambskin mine was lambskin back in the 80s and no no i'm saying leather jacket yeah oh i see okay okay i think i had like a veal skin uh vest yeah velcro closers on it tonight we got a beautiful veal skin uh what else we got chef is preparing a beautiful veal skin yeah um now uh will uh yeah i feel like it's been a while since we've had an update on your uh on your love life and domestic life what's going on there let's talk about sean and i's personal life what about what's going on with your personal life well it's going it's going really well oh that's nice really well yeah what's happening what's yeah first of all talk about secrets talk about secrets yeah what are the deets on that both of you know exactly what's happening and this is just i'm not gonna walk into your trap you're happy let's suffice to say you're happy i'm very happy okay so things are going great things are going great you know things are trending hold on let me lead the witness things are trending north yeah you know the relationship is still ascendant yes yes okay and if that were to continue to go on the course that it's going at the angle it is currently currently headed uh where where does that go uh yeah well first of all why are you leaving why am i in court why are you leaving what is that please answer the question sir permission to treat the witness as hostile yeah i mean look at it will be a perfect world in five years what does this relationship look like i can i be honest with you if i fucking knew what five years i i am now at at 56 i have learned a lot about you a little bit in the last two years especially to let go of whatever ideas that i think it's gonna go or it's gonna happen i have we as we know you get dealt so many fucking curveballs yeah and so i'm i'm i'm in a place now where i'm really trying my best to just deal with what's in front of me and to try to take the next best i i but you don't want to be fully reactive to everything in your life you do like to be proactive in some areas right and you kind of have the the car moving in a particular direction yeah for for me that has been in the last couple of years as both of you know trying my best to lay a great foundation i surround myself with great people i'm i'm in a you know great programs with people have done some work on myself to try to do it in a way so that whatever does come my way i handle it hopefully better than i have historically right yeah yeah prosecution rest hey you know what let's get to our guest okay dr ruth westheimer is on the show today to walk will you know let's see he might have a dr ruth he might have an opinion on dr ruth i don't know he's got opinions on lots of stuff and i like his opinions on most of stuff he lands on the right side of virtually every issue i think i've ever had a conversation with him right meaning correct correct funny uh insightful and and and well he's he's well educated he's super smart he's got 35 emmy nominations to back it up he's hosted the golden globes he's he's hosted the emmys produced shows uh he was a cast member of snl for 13 years he was the co-host of weekend update for eight years with my ex-wife and our old friend amy poehler you guys seth meyer hello gentlemen this is our hello the right wing digging in he's been taking notes i thank you for clarifying the right side of every issue i was like okay well hold that means this was thrilling just the pre-show banter and i you know again anybody listens to the show here is the pre-show banter but i bet that again i'm now new to the podcast game compared to you guys it's dead easy it's thrilling to find out the tech doesn't get sorted out i mean if you guys could hear the three of them try to get ready for a podcast they've done over 300 i was googling how many episodes you were doing over the course of should i shut down or show or reset should i should i reboot at one point you said can i hear me you asked the other two guys can i hear me that's our new t-shirt and our swag i'm just i can't wait to tell the lonely island guys it does not get easier it does not get smoother we're all ding-dongs if anything gets harder what my my favorite thing about when jason when he has to reboot and when it's not working and he can't hear the headphones is his face because he's in so he's not aware of his face so he's looking and he's like my dad with the remote and somebody has changed the input forget it and somehow we feel like if we get closer to the object that's troubling us it'll become fixed just get your face closer to it yeah we're all the age now we're at certain angles we look like uh 70 year old aunts yeah you know what i mean and it's usually when we're trying to figure out uh again we're all it's like in the cheater zone i'm there too we're just certain angles somehow i always seem to have my my jaw somewhat separated and uh people say they take these pictures of me will as guilty of this my wife a lot taking pictures of me with my and and jimmy kimmel and and molly yeah my mouth's just slightly open and i'm staring off into space or i'm laughing with my mouth sort of a gape so yeah it's sort of uh it's it's a sign of old age coming in i think i also i do think i've crossed the threshold with my wife where if i see her taking out her phone to take a picture of me it means that something's gone terribly wrong something's not right on my face no it's you just reach the point where it's not like i need pictures of my husband looking handsome or good no it's something they can send to their friends and laugh at yeah yeah yeah they're so sad dude uh this has been so long overdue i feel like we talked about this last i'm so happy to be here i we talked about it last i ran into you during uh trick-or-treating last fall in new york uh yeah in the middle of mayhem in the west village wait how did that that that that's how does that go that's just purely that's just elevator riding correct it was really exciting we had two great run-ins in the course of like three months oh yes It was just West Village, packed West Village. Okay. Perfect place to take your kids trick-or-treating in New York City. But otherwise, it's in apartment buildings usually, though, right? I mean, you're going up and down elevators. No, this is now people sitting on brownstone steps. Oh, okay, yeah. And they close down the streets, and it is a real great community vibe. It is. You know, my kids, we saw Will, we saw Alec Baldwin in half a Teletubby costume. Sure. With like four of his six kids and just kind of like trying to get, yeah. And were you guys dressed up? Matthew Broderick. I love Matthew. What's that? I was not dressed up. Will, I don't think. No. We were, yeah. No, we were. We still wanted to be recognized for our work. We were trying to draw attention to IP that we didn't own. I was wearing a t-shirt. I think that said, ask me if I'm Will Arnett. Is that right? Yeah, that was, yeah. Wait, and then we were in, I was in London having dinner with Laura Dern and Mark Chappell, and Rashida walked by. Rashida Jones. Rashida Jones. And she was like, hey, guys. And we were in the front, and she goes, I'm here with Seth. And I went back, and you were sitting by yourself. And I said, we're over here. And you guys came and joined us, and we had a very fun, impromptu night at a restaurant in London. It was great. You're selling yourself short, because you first came over, and I was, you know, Rashida had gone to the restroom, so I was just looking at my phone like everybody would do, and you came over to take my order. And so I had a moment where, that's funny. It was jarring, and then lovely. Well, because you didn't, you hadn't seen me since Halloween, and you're like, in that time, he's now working at the Dover in London. Yeah. Uh-huh. All right. Yeah. Like I said, you never know what life's going to throw at you. Yeah. Right. Yeah. Because I said on Halloween, I'm like, what are you up to now? And you're like, I've got some irons in the fire. I did say that. I did say that. Did you guys ever go through a table-waiting period of your lives? Oh, yeah. Yeah? Yeah. For sure. I was at the Twisted Lizard in Chicago, which closed in the last five years, but I was, yeah, that was in my early improv days, and I remember the most memorable moment was I, it was a downstairs, you took stairs down. I remember once getting no tip and chasing a guy out and asking why he didn't leave me a tip, and he said, because you're a bad waiter. No way. He said that? Which is basically, historically, what that means. Yes. I needed to, I needed to make him tell me twice. I'll bet in your defense, you probably said, fair enough, and you had it. I was, yeah. I did not, I did not fight it after that. It was like, oh, I, I thought it was an oversight. It's tough to, I mean, it's, it's tough to argue. I mean, you can, I mean, you, theoretically, you could have said, well, in what, in what, what way, you know what I mean? But at that point, there's no point. I think also, as soon as he said that, I looked back and saw about six or seven things I could have done differently. Right. Now, let me ask you guys this. I'm not sure if this is the most relatable part of this interview, but in, in Europe, fellas, you're not supposed to leave a tip. Is that correct? I always get tripped up on this. It's changed. It's, it's kind of changed. Yeah. What is it now? You do. You do leave a tip, but is it like? You do, but you don't have to. If you're American, you do. Yeah. If you're American. Yeah. Yeah. The hope is you, you think about how much of your work has gone international. Yes. Yes. And whether or not they'll be able to, word of mouth, we'll be able to get out that you're a bad tip. That's the calculation. I used to be a, I used to be a runner. Remember the restaurant Red in LA? No. Remember that? No. No. Oh, it was on the corner, it was on Beverly. I was a restaurant, I was a runner there, and I. Wait, was it in parentheses? No, it was bright red on the outside, it was called Red. And they were, they had great turkey meatloaf, but anyway. They, I, so I would run, I would, I would be a runner, not even a waiter, and I had the one joke ready at every single table. They would say, you know, I'd have three plates, and I'd be like, great, blah, blah, blah. And inevitably, I'd put it down in front of somebody, and they'd go, well, that looks fantastic. And I'd point to my shirt, and I'd say, thanks, I just got it. You want a joke. So wait, a runner is the person that brings the plates, doesn't take the order. Just runs the food, runs the food. Got it. Yeah, I couldn't, I wasn't bright enough to. Red in parentheses, isn't red in parentheses Bono's like a humanitarian? Oh, right, yes. Oh, okay, there you go. See how old I'm getting? It's also a nice burn on Sean. You're like, were you the one that was the humanitarian one? Okay, yeah, no, not at all. Yeah, but I got yelled at all the time, like, do you know where you're going? Do you know which table you're going? I'm like, no, I, just look at the table. And then you had to memorize the seats where everybody was sitting, not only the 70 tables. It was hard. I'm just curious, how long did you work there, Sean? About a year. Okay, and it was just the one joke? Just the one joke, yeah. Like, you never. You never decided to punch it up or just. No, he kept refining it. Yeah, yeah. And they never gave you the promotion up a level. No, I asked, too, to be a waiter, but I couldn't. Oh, look at you now. I had more stress dreams about being a waiter than I did. Yeah, there's too much. Remember Squirrel? Remember the program called Squirrel on the computer, which they would punch in, the waiters would punch it in? Oh, right, right. Anybody? No. Okay, great. And you'd slide your card in to open it. On the POS? Was that Squirrel? Was that Squirrel in parentheses? Yeah. No, no. All right, Seth, speaking of starting out, let's talk about how you started out. We got to go. We got to go down. All right, cue the music. Yeah, cue the music. You're from New Hampshire, but we all know you're a Steelers fan, and we don't need to get into that. We know, right? That's fine. If you want to. That's fine. I'd love to stop just for one second. I don't. I will just tell you this real quick. Yesterday, my 10-year-old son was on the phone with my 78-year-old father talking about, uh, the Steelers' first preseason game, and it, I genuinely wanted to just go sit in a corner and sob. It made me so happy. Like, just, like, because it's just empty nonsense, no-calorie conversation, but the connection is real, and it was just, like, my, my son saying things like, I think Jeremy Bernard is probably our third-best receiver, and I'm like, great. That's all I ever want. Yeah. But now Aaron Rodgers is the quarterback again, correct? Yes, Aaron Rodgers is, is, uh, the starting quarterback. And he's also the chief scientist. Chief scientist, I think, isn't he? He is. He's taken over science for most of Pittsburgh, I think. Yep. And does he get to eat earlier because he's a senior, or, or does he eat with the rest of the team? Oh, that's a good question. I believe he does. There's still certain places in Pittsburgh. Wait, how old is Aaron Rodgers? 43 years old. And he's, and he's just, that's very old for a football. Yeah. Yeah. Young for podcasts. That's true. You bet your ass. You know what? I will say, though, I connect with my dad. I'm a long-suffering Toronto Maple Leafs fan, and I, my dad and I often, we, you know, he's about to be 88, and we talk about the Leafs. Yes. That's our sort of point. We talk about lots of other stuff, too, but that is the thing that we can talk about on a daily basis. Yes. You know, we can just sort of have a, hey, they looked terrible last night, what's going on, all that kind of stuff, and it keeps us connected in that way. As you say, it's, it's light on calories, but, uh, it's very filling. So, Seth, you were high. So, wait. So, Seth, so, Seth, you come out, you're fighting out of New Hampshire, and you decide, what is the thing, how do you, you went, you went to Northwestern, is that where you started writing and or performing comedy, or were you doing it before in New Hampshire? I was softly doing it in college. I'm sorry, in high school, we, I remember we did a comedy night in high school where we sort of wrote sketches, we were doing, you know, uh, uh, B- impressions of teachers and stuff, but it was really fun. But I was, I went to college to be a film major. Thought I wanted to write and direct movies, and Northwestern has this very famous. So many people go, I know, they go there. Yeah. And then it's, uh, Meow is this very, I think the first improv troupe at any college, and, uh, it's been around forever, and that was immediately what I wanted to do. I saw them my first week. Did you do any Second City while you were in Chicago? After college, I, that was my goal. I, I did, I only did Meow for one year, but that was all I wanted to do, was to do, uh, Second City, and I had seen a lot of Second City, my parents went to Northwestern, they'd seen a lot of Second City. I remember when we went and looked at Northwestern, my dad brought me to Second City, and we saw young Carell, young Colbert on stage together. Wow. Yeah. And so that's all I wanted to do. So that was, uh, post-college, that was waiting tables at the Twisted Lizard, and there was that weird thing of, you just kind of improvised. I was doing stuff at, uh, ImprovOlympic, now called I.O., but waiting for that sort of biannual audition, where everybody would go in and audition for Second City, but that's all. I was looking at, was that. Right. And we will be right back. And now, back to the show. So you saw those guys, like, Carell and those guys, when you went, as you said, with your dad, and then once you got to ImprovOlympic, uh, post-college, who were the people, because there's so many different classes, right, of people who were kind of in and around. So many names we all know, right, you included, who came through that Chicago thing. Who, who were the people who were sort of your contemporaries at the time? Well, it's so nuts, because it was genuinely, we were, we were, I was present during a scene, like, I'm not being part of it, but it was like, oh, this is what, like, a scene is like, where everybody, you knew you were in the right place, because there had been this wave of people were just leaving, uh, you know, like, Brian Stack and Brian McCann, like, to go do Conan stuff, Dorf, uh, so they were the slightly older, and then there was, you know, uh, Injunct. Glazer, and then there was, you know, Tina and Amy and Horatio and Dratch, uh, so that was all the people that you would either go see at Second City. or sometimes they would just pop in to ImprovOlympic. You guys know that game, The Dream, where you bring somebody up and you ask them about their day and then you improvise a dream about it. I remember just once being in the audience, the first time I talked to Amy, she brought me on stage and she asked me about my day. No way. And then that, like her cohort did, basically improvised a sketch about what my dream would be based on the day I had. So it was really amazing to feel very confident, not in how it was going to turn out, but very confident this is the right place to be at this moment if you want to be in comedy. But did that, did the confidence you feel about, well, I kind of would like to do this more than your film goals, did you go all in on that as far as what your career and path to making a living would be? Or were you studying something else simultaneously to mitigate your risk? I got, immediately my takeaway on film class was, oh my God, this is so scientific. And I don't think I have the, you know, where I just don't think I have the attention span for this and the amount of lighting and the 180 degree rule and lenses. I was like, well, this is a snooze. And so I started, there was a creative writing for the media sort of sub-major and I was doing that. But, you know, half, I would say most of those people as soon as they graduated, went out to LA, they wrote spec scripts and they went to LA where, you know, Sean, you know, there's a, you know, a ton of Northwestern people out there. And certainly, you know, when I graduated in the, in the, you know, mid nineties, like there was just this, you know, Northwestern mafia out there. And so there were plenty of connections, but I, by the time I graduated, I wanted to improvise and do comedy more than I wanted to make or write films. But you had no backup career aside from, I mean, you were confident that the entertainment industry was going to be something you were going to be able to make a living in. - No backup, correct. I got a weird, I got a weird job, like a weird early tech job right out of college where I worked for two months for a friend of mine who had started a, it was, the idea was, it was a, you would get free minutes for your phone long distance, but you would have to listen to a commercial before you placed an ad, sorry, before you placed a call. It's not a bad idea. Like it's basically like, what, tech again? - No, wait a second, wait a minute. - That is wild. - Keep selling me, keep selling me. - That's where you're interested. But I worked for two months there. I was like the seventh, seventh hire. And I remember he came in one day. He's like, so nobody thinks you want to be here. And I was like, you know what, I don't. And he's like, yeah, that's kind of what we thought. But they, I will say I had really, my friend group at Northwestern, which were not all comedy or theater people, they were all really supportive. Everybody was like, yeah, I mean, don't, you should just try that. - Yeah. - That's all you seem to be interested in. - But you know, you know, it brings up, I was having this conversation with somebody the other day, which was like, I think, you know, every once in a while somebody will call you and say like, hey, my son is graduating college or they're trying to get into entertainment. Can they call you? We've all had those calls. - All the time. - Yeah. - Right? And so, and so you end up talking to people and I always think like, there's no, what kind of advice can you give somebody? There's really no plan for it. It's not like law school where you say, finish law school here and then try to go and work for it. So there's not, but I remember the other day I sang to somebody like, you kind of can't have a backup. - Yeah. - You have to be all in. It has to be, that's the risk is the thing. And it's because when you don't have anything to fall back on it forces you to try to do whatever you can to get a job. And you're not going to hit necessarily, it's very rare that somebody hits it out of the park on their first job. And you're going to take a lot of shit jobs and you're going to do, I don't know, work background or you're going to do whatever it is that you're going to do, but you have to be all in, I think. - It is nice though that, that, that, that, that pursuing the entertainment industry at its early stage does lend itself to the schedule whereby you can hold down a job that can pay your rent and, and, and, and feed you, you know, all our waiting tables or whatever it is. That's helpful. - Right. But it is like that. I think when people talk about a plan B, you realize, you know, like you can have a plan D. - Yeah. - Yeah. - Right, which is like waiting tables. But like, when you talk about a plan B, like what are you talking about? Because, you know, ultimately anybody who's plan A is your plan B is going to be so far ahead of you by the time you decide like that's what you want to do. - Yes. - It is, I mean, man, it is so nice to hear you say that, Will, because I, the amount, I feel like I am wasting everyone's time when they sit you down or get you on the phone with somebody who wants to talk about this business. And the only thing you could say is like, is if you, you have to only want to do it. - Yes. - That's the only way. If you're on the fence about like this in med school, I'd go to med school. - Yes. - Right, right. - You know what I mean? - A hundred percent. - I'm like, yeah, don't look at me. - Right. - I pasted this thing together with scotch tape and rubber bands to get here. - Yeah. - Yeah, I don't know how, you know? - And what was Seth, what was Josh doing at this? Was he, was he kind of like on a similar track? - Yeah, so the exact same track, also Northwestern, also Meow, and then I had gotten- - And he's two years, three years younger? - Two years behind me in school. Yeah, two years exactly. And we, so then I got hired for this job in Amsterdam called Boom Chicago, so these Chicago guys, Northwestern guys started basically a second city type theater in Amsterdam. And that was a thing I would never have done on my own. Sean's a co-star, Peter Gross. - Peter Gross, one of the funniest people alive. - On Broadway in "Goodnight Oscar." - Yes. - He was my friend and he was, we had done improv together. We were improvising in Chicago together. And he was the one who said, hey, there's this theater in Amsterdam and they're having auditions and I just to this day, I'm so lucky to have had a friend who was willing to take a big swing like that because I never would have even gone to that audition. But the fact that I had a friend who was down for that kind of adventure and we both auditioned for that and then we both ended up moving to Amsterdam. I was there for two years. - Am I right, did Sudeikis go to Boom Chicago after you? Is that right? - Yeah, so Sudeikis, it was a crazy, I mean, that was another time where I felt that thing of like being- - I feel like we had another guest on this show that went to Amsterdam. - Yeah, I mean, it could have been Sudeikis, Jordan Peele, Ike Barinholtz. - Oh, I think it was Ike. - Oh yeah, that's right, it was Ike. - It was Ike. - And, but it was another time where you're like, oh, we're part of a scene. Like you just, where you look around and you're like, this is the place to be right now. And the hardest part about leaving to go do it was there was this idea that you were in line in Chicago. Whether you were or you weren't, you thought like, oh my God, you know, I'm just gonna spend six months getting closer to the kind of person that they'll hire to Second City and then I'll be a part of that organization. And so the risk we all had to do was leave and go do this show in Amsterdam. But once you got there, you were performing way more than you would in Chicago and you were living in fucking Amsterdam and it was incredible. It was just the best time. - Because it's about time on stage. You need to have the hours and we're getting to- - Yeah, and so if the Lord, by the way, the Lord, the reason I was in London was, you know, they started us and I was like, okay, and I had dinner with Lauren and Lauren wanted me to go over there just to like, it was before the show started, just to like, sort of sit and talk to him. He goes, you know what, I think you're the right one because you know, Amsterdam. And I'm like, from 25 years ago? Lauren, they don't even use the same money as when I lived. - But by the way, what's kind of sweet about it is that he has these associations. He remembers that you came out of Amsterdam. Do you know what I mean? - Yeah. - And he, by the way, it's like, I think like the thing, Lauren is so, he gives way too much credit to living abroad and athletes. Like the amount people would audition for the show, give like the flattest audition and Lauren would be like, you know, he played college baseball, so you know he'll get it, but why? - But then so Seth, so if everything went perfectly and one got recruited to Second City, is the next logical, you know, home run step after Second City, Saturday Night Live? Is that the trajectory? - Yeah, I mean, so that was the observable pipeline from the people that were, you know, so in, I mean, it was Jerry Miner, before that was Tim Meadows, but I didn't really know him, but like Jerry Miner, Horatio Dratch, Tina, and then you just sort of thought like this, Adam McKay, you know, had gone there. And so that is, I think, why everybody wanted to be at Second City. And so then I spent two years in Amsterdam. I came back, once again, my expectations, my expectation was I'll get back in line. You know, maybe it's the end of the line, but this is still what I want. And then I had this crazy stroke of good fortune, which is this woman, Ayala Cohen, who worked in the SNL talent department, came to this tiny little improv festival where my partner and I were doing a two-person show. And basically I got to audition for SNL based off that. And that's ultimately- - And did you have any, were you in any sports that Lauren recognized? - Did you play sports or no? - No. - No, okay, all right. - I desperately wanted to, and it was not to be. - Talk to me about how you became more interested, motivated, fulfilled, I'm assuming, with the writing track as opposed to the performing track. When did that start to take hold? - Well, I mean, I would love to tell you that it was my instinct, but I think ultimately, and again, it worked out career-wise, so no regrets. - Sure did. - Lauren made a mistake. and should have hired me as a writer. from the beginning but he hired me he hired me as a cast member and uh I was then uh I mean again I was just it was a huge struggle for me to uh find a purchase and it only got worse I mean it was fine to be like all right you know I'm not obviously you know Will Ferrell, Tracy Morgan, Chris Kattan you know the people who are in the cast were older than me like nobody expected me to be better than them but then you know the next wave of people that came in you know then it's like Sudeikis, Hader, Fred and Will, Bill and Andy and you're like uh oh no like they're they're like the younger cast members but they're uh you know demonstrably better at sketch comedy than I am and so I was sort of writing uh I always loved writing but at the time I was writing to stay alive more than anything else. Writing for yourself, writing for yourself. Writing for myself but Shoemaker uh Mike Shoemaker the producer on the show he was he gave great advice where he's like look you what you should do is you should try to think of group scenes where you can score uh but it's not like a Seth sketch you know it's a it's five people and and it will get on the show and you will you know have a a fifth of the laughs but that'll be better than you you know I was because early on I would I would write things that were good enough to get to dress but then I didn't have the uh I don't know the charisma or or skill to carry it so I was getting so many things cut at dress uh on the you know again they it was a it was a accomplishment to make it to dress but then it just felt like a failure right that's that's first of all it's great that you had shoe and obviously I want to get into you guys have managed to have an incredible sort of partnership if you will going forward and that he gave you that advice at that time but and I want to get into that but I first I want to know what's your favorite sketch that got cut at dress that never made it to air that you up to this day you're like this would have killed do you have one I don't know I mean I I remember uh because we did this thing we started doing this thing at our show called second chance theater where we would do sketching and I was like this is the only thing I like about it was it was the beginning of a holiday ad which it was like what do you get for a man who has everything a second penis and then it was just and it was always I took a little bit of time to get into it and it was the only thing I liked about it was it was the beginning of a holiday ad which it was like what do you get for a man who has everything a second penis and then it was just and it was always I took a little bit of time to get into it and then it was the only thing I liked about it was it was the beginning of a holiday ad which it was I took it like basically submitted it all three December shows for like my first five years on the show and uh never once uh went because it just ultimately and I remember Schumacher's like we should do it and then I got a copy of it and Schumacher read it he's like I actually don't think we should do it so wait wait what what was the thing that always made it a non-candidate I just think it got it immediately became no it wasn't too graphic it was too much a sketch about a sketch where it was about how it was just the actual apparatus that the set was um psychics was clumsy it was about how it was like it was a clumsy strap device and they were and they were I remember Parnell was the host of it and there were three testimonials and at the end he goes so it seems like he goes so one for one against and one in the middle they couldn't even get three strong testimonies can we just can we just sideline and say how great Chris Parnell is he's so great he is world-class that dude fuck me man well there was again when I I was so lucky to be a writer at a time in that show where just the toolbox was nuts yeah you know and I think like certainly people who uh wrote uh for Phil Hartman had that same thing but Chris Parnell was just a metronomic uh delivery system yeah for information that he would do in a way that it felt like as though there was no it was so dry that it became hilarious but there was no way to do it in a way that it felt like it was so dry that it became no effort or certainly no observable effort that he was like reaching for the laugh he would just kind of get it he says oh I I always remember every time I think of Parnell now I think of that that scene there's a scene in in 30 rock where he plays that doctor uh Spichemin and uh we're doing this scene and he goes and they go you gotta he's gonna give somebody a shot and he goes okay he takes the needle out and he goes okay ew ew ew ew ew ew he's revolted at the idea of giving somebody a shot and nobody else could do it the way he did it it was just amazing um so that's ah man so then you so Shoemaker's like all right you got to start writing you got to start doing this stuff and then and then you start writing more and then update happens there's a there's a kind of a um a swift there's a there's an empty chair Tina leaves yes and to do 30 rock and and and the the big thing is who's gonna take over the seat yes well it was the second time it happened right because first um uh Jimmy had left oh yes and and you know in my head I always if I if there was anybody at SNL whose path I thought I could maybe try to follow it was Tina's right I always saw I was like oh that's somebody who is a really good writer and also a good performer but uh you know what I mean like she she built her way to performer on the like strength of her writing and so whereas you know again when you know when you're next to Will Ferrell or you know Amy and there's just like this charisma coming out of their pores that like is not not available to you you're like all right we're gonna write our way into this with that said when you know Lauren decided to go with Amy and Tina it wasn't like I thought uh he had made a bad choice you know my best chance was that Amy didn't want to do it I wasn't like what are they thinking and so but then yeah when it was uh you know when it was Amy in an open chair and uh my recollection of it was it was the end of that year and so I had done a lot of writing and I was like I'm gonna do one year where Lauren had promoted me to writing supervisor so he had taken me as a cast member and I think at this point he was admitting his mistake he's like I'd love you to you know basically because Tina was gone a lot that year Amsterdam notwithstanding I think them you know I think you you know in Amsterdam they they like clowns um you know what though you were so great on update I remember I remember um when Wig and Armisen played those two characters were they they're singers and they were like you know they were like you know they were like you know they make albums but of course they're improvising yeah Garth and Kat yeah Garth and Kat and they're singing you're making it up in the moment yeah clearly and you you got as big of laughs as they did asking the dumbest obvious questions and it's it's hard to do that and you you just so excelled at that I thought it was hilarious thank you it is uh to this day they always would they would ask to sing another song and they would say please Mr. Miners they kept calling me Mr. Miners and my my wife will still say will refer to me as Mr. Miners when she wants me to do I I know knowing how well knowing how well you guys all knew each other and knowing how legitimately you were authentically delighted by so many of those players yeah watching other people come up like you and Amy doing update was phenomenal in and of itself but watching how delighted you would be when like uh Fred would come out or or Wig and watching you be legit like you know what people say like always are they faking laughing I'm like, no, no, no, no. Seth can't control himself because Fred is killing him right now. Right? Yeah. And they're killing each other. And just, well, Fred and Wig and Bobby Moynihan, they also just never, by the way, never tanked dress. They just always saved like three moves for air, which is, I would never have the confidence to not give, like press so hard at dress. Whereas they're like, I've got it. Like I'm not going to do it all now. It was interesting though, because when Amy left, you know, and I was doing it alone, my initial instinct, which is a bad one, because all update guests are doing a bad job executing what you, the anchor, tell the audience they're going to do. For example, like Stefan, the city correspondent, was a terrible city correspondent. And so my first instinct as an actor was to be frustrated and mad. Right. And again, not to continue to give him the credit he deserves, but Shoemaker was like, I think the audience doesn't like that you don't like them. Right. You know, he was basically like, I think just, I think you should try to play this as sort of patient and delighted. And it was such a good note because of course that, you know, to sort of confirm what you're saying, Will, like I was delighted. So like, why hide it from the audience? Like, it just seemed like, you know, this, because again, I think maybe just from like, I don't know what it was, like what comedy you watched growing up, but like there's that straight man thing of like, now you hold on here. You were supposed to be talking about the city, you know? And that's just like not joyful to do or watch. Right, right, right. We'll be right back. And back to the show. When Amy left and, because she chose our son over you, when she, when Archie was born. And he's a fine young man. And you know what? He's a fine young man. And I'm finally willing to concede the right choice. It's almost 18 years. But, and he's, by the way, he's still asleep. He's in the other, he's in his room right now. He's still asleep. Yeah, yeah. But when you were now on the desk by yourself, what was that like that first time? Do you remember that first show being out there? Well, I mean, because the first time was crazy. - It's crazy, 'cause it wasn't Archie, born on a Friday. Oh, well, of course. Yeah, of course. Yeah. No, you did that. You did that night by yourself. That, I think Saturday morning I woke up from a text from Amy being like, so. She was in labor. You're on your own. Yeah, yeah, yeah. She was like, you're on your own. And I, but it was crazy. And it was also not the most confident I've ever felt Lauren was. Lauren had a lot of ideas of like, but what if you did it with this person just for tonight? And, and I'm not, I will say I'm not someone who advocates particularly well for myself. But that was, I remember just saying, I really, I think if you don't let me do it alone tonight. You're, the, it will just look like you don't think I can do it alone. Right. Uh-huh, right, right. And, and the eyes were on, you guys had had an amazing fall because it was the presidential race that year. It had been, you guys were every week crushing it. Well, I think maybe the, I mean, the last, probably just based on, I remember, you know, her silhouette, it must've been her last update before Archie was the, the rap with Sarah Palin, right? So that's, so it is also, I mean, I do, I get that Lauren is like, so here's the thing, you going on alone without the woman who just hardcore rap to Sarah Palin, like nine and a half months pregnant, like, I think he was looking out for me, like genuinely, like, I don't think it, he was probably like, let's just try to like, have, give you a little help out there. But I think ultimately what we, and what ultimately my era of solo hosting update was, was, we'll just do a lot of features. You know what I mean? Like four jokes, Fred, four jokes. I will tell you something. I'll tell you something really cool too, which, well, not, but I think it's cool is we, of course, you know this very well, cause you were texting in contact to Amy and Archie and I, and he was, watched that episode live from the hospital. That was the first show Archie ever saw. Yeah. It was, it was incredible, man. It was, uh, and, and it was very emotional for her and for you guys and for us and for me and, and, and, and Maya saying that song, uh, all of it. Yeah, Keenan and, and Maya, TT and Mario, which was the first time with you, Jason. Uh, that was TT and Mario with the, um, uh, soul singers. He doesn't remember. I'm going to help him. You and Amy, uh, you're on like a bearskin rug in front of, uh, yes. We're selling, we're selling like a K, K, K-toe. On the show, on the show. Not the time you guys went away to talk. Oh, yes, yes, yes, yes. Oh, you almost stepped in it. I did not lead you down a helpful path. Um, that was a, they, we sing those songs all the time, uh, which is, they were very short, very inappropriate soul songs. They were kind of like an Ashford and Simpson. And one of the songs, the entirety of one of the songs was, let me put it in a little bit. Just a tip. Yeah, just a tip. They were very short songs. Oh, yeah. And then like a, like, like, like a smash zoom with the camera. Just a tip. Like right in on their face. Yeah, I remember that. Shaky, shaky. But that was, uh, so TT and Mario were, were, uh, sang, uh. Yeah. Sang a song to R2. To R2. Yeah, it was amazing. That's so cool. So, so, but then you go, so then now you're on your own and, and you end up and, however, you got it off the ground really well. It is, you know, behind the scenes. Lauren, as you said, was maybe a little bit nervous and whatever. We'll, we'll see. But you end up now in a way, do you think that that prepared you for ultimately doing Late Night? Because you kind of grew in confidence. You, you handled it so well that the audience never sensed that. And I don't think that, and there's no, obviously you and Amy were great together, but you, you really owned that era of doing it yourself. And you took that into Late Night. Do you, do you feel like that experience helped you? I think it, I mean, I think it helped people see me as somebody who could do Late Night, which is ultimately like the bigger problem as far as the jobs we want is you need the people who give those jobs out to see it. Yeah. And, uh, so that was, uh, great. But again, I had no eyes on it. No one wants to go first. Yeah. And, uh, and it, by the way, I owe a great credit to the fact that it worked for, that Jimmy made it work, uh, Late Night because I think, you know, ultimately the complete lack of originality in, um, network things. That's what I'm thinking. Led them to like, what if that's the other update guy? Was, did, did Conan precede Fallon? Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah. But it was, yeah, it was Conan and Jimmy and then, uh, and then it was Jay, Conan and Jimmy and then it was Jay and Jimmy. Right, right, right, right, right. It was a lot of, it was, it was a fun time. But the, how many years have you done the Late Show? Like 12? God, it started in 2014. Yeah, 2014. So yeah, it's, February will be 12 years. Wow. No, February will be 13. Yeah. Uh, it's nuts. But it was, I will say a lot of the update stuff, actually, it was, it was, I will say a lot of the update stuff actually, I think, worked against, uh, figuring out the show because of, you know, one thing was so much of update was about me and the best cast, one of the best cast in the history of SNL. And then you're just like, now it's you without any of that. And. But, but maybe without the cast, but, and we go back to Shoemaker, a guy who had worked closely with you in the writing process. First of all, it encouraged you. Yes. And then you guys really partnered and you guys went and did it together. You had a really great, solid. You guys knew each other. That's a, that's such a cheat because often I think when you start late night, not that I know, you're, you're really, you're, you're, you're hoping it works out. You're hoping the dynamic works out. You guys had years of working together. We had a shorthand. We had a agreement about what I was good at and what I hadn't been good at. And we had also been there together while I had tried all the stuff that had not worked about, like, I'm going to be a regular sketch cast player on SNL. And, uh, we'd, we'd kind of watch that, uh, fail to, you don't bear any fruit. And so, but the, the thing that frustrates me so much, and I say this with love, I remember Lauren said, it'll take you 18 months to figure it out. And I had the confidence to be like, no, that could take me 18 months. And then 18 months into the show is when I was like, I'm going to stop doing a standing monologue and I'm going to start the show at the desk. And I remember I didn't even realize it had been 18 months, but the minute I did that, I'm like, oh, this is it. And then I'm like, oh, fuck. Then so, but on, on SNL, were you, how much of the, of the, weren't you, you were leading the writing process. Were you not, were you, were you head writer either in name or in, in, in practicality? I was head writer. I was, I was head writer for, uh, uh, basically the, the, the end of my run on the show. Like I was update and head writer. And I will say to this day, like probably the, the title, if, if it's not too silly to be proud of titles, the thing I'm proudest of is the fact that I was the head writer on SNL. Yeah. Because you should be. And, uh, but again, like it's, you mostly, you know, the hardest or the most util I was is bringing notes from Lauren to the writing staff. Like I worked, that writing staff would have been fine, uh, without me. Right. They were just absolute top to bottom bangers. It was an incredible group of people. You then basically by, by obviously by default and title become head, head writer on your own show. Um, and how. How did you compare those, those two, um, workloads, uh, positions, levels of responsibility? So it's actually, uh, Alex Bayes, who was the head writer at Weekend Update was the one person I poached, uh, when I left. And the one person, as soon as I got the job, the first thing, uh, Lauren said was you can't have Bayes. Like even Lauren knew how good he was. He's the greatest living joke writer. He's incredible. And so he's our head writer and the job, the, I still do a ton of writing on my show, but I only rewrite. Right. Like so much of my time at SNL was that like open on, you know, like the worst part of writing, just blank page. And like, uh, I remember Jost in his office, like had a, he was like, to this day, I'll go in cause it's my old office. And he has the names of all the cast, like just printed, just like, and that thing of like, sometimes you just want to look at names and hope that like just anything to get you started, like who, who does what. Right. Um, and, uh, and so it is, it is lovely to have transitioned. Yeah. To a part of my career where I'm rewriting more than writing because, uh, I mean, I went, I think I went back and hosted in 2017. I'd only been gone three years and I had this, you know, grand plan. I'm like, I'm going to get back. I'm going to crack my knuckles, write a couple of old, old school sketches. And I just, it felt like somebody trying to, it was remember when Mark Spitz came back and tried to swim in the Olympics and you saw like a picture of him and you're like, he still looks good. And then he just got in the pool and you're like, no, no, like that's, that's hilarious. That's hilarious. That's hilarious. Like that's, that's how it felt. The hours have got to be similar or better or worse. No, no, no. It's this is unbelievable. My hours now compared to the S I don't know. Is better or worse. How so right now it's the best. I don't know how I could have had a family with SNL hours in the way that I do now. I mean, we tape our show at four in the afternoon and we don't do a post-mortem again, Shoemaker, his thing was like, look, we, if there's something you're mad about tomorrow, let's have a meeting. But if you go home, I bet you'll come in tomorrow and be more concerned about tonight's show. Right. You'll realize that the thing you're mad about everybody noticed that it went wrong and nobody will want it to go wrong again. And ultimately let's save ourselves, you know, 90 minutes. So interesting. That's because again, you just churning them out one after the other and, uh, and not in a bad way. I don't mean that in a negative way, but it does really force you to, uh, look to the future and just try to slowly bring up. It is daily, right? Except, uh, um, uh, instead of weekly, um, even though the daily workload on SNL from, from my limited view of it, um, it does seem pretty rigorous. Um, I would imagine on your show currently, it is much more involved. It's I mean, again, I, I get there first thing in the morning and, um, I I'm working the whole day. no, there's no downtime, but it's not boring because it's all, you know, you're all churning towards this really exciting, uh, release and, and, you know, the, the, uh, adrenaline rush of walking out into a studio where, you know, 180 people are there to watch it. That's so cool. Do you feel, do you feel like you have to consciously because of, because it is so, it is daily and you do deal with, you know, topical, uh, things, do you feel the need to like, fuck, I gotta plow through every newspaper this morning. I need to, I need to be up on every, no? I sometimes feel like I get my news from the first draft. Yeah, right. Send me. Uh, and I'm like, that's also fine. I mean, like, you know, again, like, it's not like I'm not, uh, looking at social media and scrolling through Twitter and seeing like what's happening in the world. So I'm not like caught flat footed, but I don't, you know, I, on Sunday, do I, uh, you know, think it's important to watch, you know, a lot of the, you know, Sunday news shows. Um, yeah. But like, I'm not, I don't feel like I'm some, you know, uh, uh, insatiable news junkie, uh, for the purposes of my show. Um, which is, which is nice. You can always just call Bateman. You can just call Bateman. I'll plug you in. Do you ever get, do you ever get tired of it though? I mean, do you ever get like, you need a break? Uh, you know, uh, we're on, you know, uh, we're, we're talking during a hiatus. I think maybe when this airs, we'll, we'll be back on. I can't wait to be back on, like genuinely. I love, uh, the people I work with. I, I also, you know, it's a very, hopefully it's a cathartic show to watch and it's very cathartic to do. So I, my mental health is a lot, uh, more, uh, locked in, uh, when I have the show as a way to sort of like, um, you know, anxiety. What do you look forward to doing? Sorry, Willie on the, when you guys are powered down during the summer, what is the thing you look most forward to doing with the family each year? Is it, is it just, is it like, is it travel? Is it doing nothing? Is it just playing house? You know, we got, we got, we got beach kids. Uh, I got a father-in-law with a boat. Highly recommend having a father-in-law with a boat. Just a little, just a little motorboat. Sure. Just, uh, you know, but, uh, that's a, that's a good, uh, good, good thing to do with your kids. I got, um, but in general, they're, they're also, you know, they're, uh, 10, eight and, um, my daughter's almost five. Just good company right now. Yeah. Like for the first time where I'm, I'm really like, you know what? You're all a lot less. Boring. Yeah. And there's much more self-sufficient at that age, right? Yeah. Yeah. Well, that's the curse, right? Like the minute they're not boring, they like are, they're like, Hey, I'm, I'm meeting other people. I'm like, yeah, yeah, yeah. I know you watch, I know you watch a lot. You historically, you've watched a lot of films. You watch a lot of shows. Like you, you enjoy, uh, absorbing, uh, all sorts of art, if you will. What are the things, what's the thing that, and you watch a lot of sports, you say you don't play, but you, you do, you watch a ton of sports. What's the thing, what is the thing that you do? Are you watching below deck like JB and me? Are you anything like that? Widows Bay. That was my, the last show that I really loved. I'm glad he watches that. Matthew Reese is great. Yeah. That dude's really good. Uh, a very good dude. That's the last thing I feel like I. Do you ever watch documentaries like true crime documentaries? Not with much, uh, consistency. I love them. Yeah. And then what is the go-to sport? It's football. It's Steelers football. It depends on, I will say like. If you have, if your baseball team is any good, it's very fun in the summer to care about baseball, but I would say like. And what is your team? Sox? The Red Sox. And then also my dad's from Pittsburgh. So the Pirates to a smaller degree. And then, but the Steelers a hundred percent. And, uh, and I, that I do feel like I'm gearing up for that emotional rollercoaster. Not in a way. I mean, are anybody like, are you guys fans of sports teams outside of where you grew up? Yeah. No. Um, well, I mean, I'm a liberal. You didn't grow up in Boston, Seth, right? Well, New Hampshire is, you know, we got the Boston sports channel. Fucking right next to it, dude. Although I tell a story like, uh, Peter, I was at a charity event once and, and, uh, Wahlberg, I won't say which one, he was like, are you from Boston? And I said, oh, I'm from New Hampshire. And he said, uh, so no. No. I was like, that is the perfect sort of provincial rudeness of someone who like gets the Boston Globe. I'm like, I'm within the window of the Boston Globe getting delivered. Home delivery. Yeah. Well, could you imagine ever being called the, the New England Red Sox? I mean, that, that would give you an excuse then, right? But they don't. Yeah. The New England Patriots do it, but it is, it's so funny because like I, again, uh, you know, I got my start in Chicago. So Chicago totally owned. My dad's from Pittsburgh. Pittsburgh totally owns me. Boston, just kind of in the middle. Never the Cubs. Never the Cubs. They're pretty agnostic. Never the Cubs. Never the, never the White Sox. No. No. And never the Bears. No. Okay. I just didn't care. I had a, I had a true love and I didn't need more. Got it. Sure. Sure. Uh, what do you think, everybody asks this all the time. What do you think is going to happen in the Middle East? Well, don't get me wrong. Don't get me started. Listen, the Straight to Hormuz is open. Okay. By the way, in case you didn't know, it's open for business and we're controlling it. It's wide open. And by the way, it doesn't matter how far we're recording this based on when it comes out, but it's going to stay open. It's still open. It's never been closed. Uh, what, what are the last thing? What are the next five years for you? If you had to look, cause we were talking about like, what do you want to do in the preamble in our coffee chat, uh, as JB calls it, what, where do you see it going? What do you, what do you want to do? What do you want to do? I don't know. Uh, I would love to say in five years from now, I'm still doing late night. I have no, I'm not tired of it at all. I really, really enjoy it. But you know, I do think more than maybe even the, the things I learned at SNL helped me figure out late night. Like, I think like what I've done at late night will be stuff that will help me figure out a great many things. And ultimately the problem or the fear I had leaving SNL was like, oh, I'm so worried my next job is going to be boring. And this one isn't. So I think the, the key is just to find something where you're just not bored. Well, I don't think you have to worry. You, you, you've got a, uh, you're a great comedy mind. You're a great mind. You're, people love watching you, including me. You're super, super funny. You're a wonderful talent set. Yeah. You're going to find. So this was so much fun. You've got, and you've got no plan B and you've got no plan B. That's the good news. Not even all these years later, not a plan B. So, so you're going to be just fine. Yeah. Yeah. And Hey, Jason, I know, I know you couldn't, but I can hear you. Thank you. Oh, wow. Thank you. And you see me. I can hear you. Yeah, I can see you too. Um, we love you, Seth Meyers. Love you, Seth. Thank you for coming, dude. What a delight. Thank you for doing this. All right, guys. I'll see you soon. Thanks, Seth. All right. Bye, Seth. Thank you. Uh, the great Seth Meyers. He's so good. You know what? You can tell he's a great writer and a great, um, person of comedy just because of his natural wit. Like he's so funny naturally. Just speaking. So witty. Well, I love it. He's so conversational in, uh, in his show. On his show. And, and, and as you said, and so witty. Yeah. So fast. Yeah. Like crazy fast. Fast. Fassel. Yeah. Fassel. I mean, we've all done his show, right? We've all been on his show and he's, I don't know how you do that every single day where you're just on, on, on, on, on, and he's so natural on it. Anyway, he's one of the best. Yeah. He's super smooth. Always so kind and gregarious. And he's just a, uh. So smart. So smart. Yeah. He's a, he is a perfect host. For sure. He really is. God. And, and I feel like, is that the first time he's been on the show? Yeah. Isn't that crazy? What is the deal? I don't know. I don't know. And then I ran into him last year. We've been trying to put this together for almost a year, uh, just with dates and stuff. And, uh, cause I was like, how did we, how did we not? Yeah. I mean, he was, he's definitely, oh boy. You know, he's definitely. Oh boy. Why do I see, why do I see you coming from around the corner every time? Like he chokes the puppy. I think he literally grabs the microphone when he gets an idea. Sean, what is he? Sean, what is he? Well, I just want to say he was, he wasn't, he wasn't on today, um, by accident. He was on today. Wait, no, he wasn't on today. It's still rolling. Oh my God. Whoa. Jesus. Age. He was on today cause he was purposefully on today. He wasn't on by accident. I don't know. I mean, less committal. I mean. Will, you got anything? I don't know. I don't know. You know, I'm sorry. I'm sorry, Sean, but I don't. Bye. Bye. There we go. Bye. Bye. Smart. Less. Smart. Less. Smartless is 100% organic and artisanally handcrafted by Rob Armjarff, Bennett Barbico, and Michael Grant-Terry. Smart. Less.