174: Set Standards. Aspire to Achieve Them. Become an Eminently Qualified Human

This is Jocco Podcast number 174 with Echo Charles and me Jocco Willink. Good evening, Echo. Good evening. So I was the Commander of the training detachment Which runs the tactical kind of advanced training for the West Coast seal teams and when I was in that position One of the things that you have to do when you're in a leadership position is you have to give evaluations for Everyone that works for you If to basically write down and evaluate how good they are and how well They do their job. This is normal for everyone in the Navy and everyone in the military really and in the Navy It's a 5.0 system that you're getting graded on so 5.0 is the best and 1.0 is the worst. I don't know if you can go lower than that you probably can but There and there are rules About how many people you can put at the top you have to for it's called forced ranking if you've ever heard of that forced ranking means you have to actually rank everyone so if you have 10 people working for you You have to rank this is my number one guy this is my number two guys all the way down through number 10 and So what you cannot do is you can't just say hey everyone's great. Everyone's a 5.0 that's that's You're not allowed to do that And believe it or not. That's what people would do Most people would just they have to evaluate someone guess what they say hey, you're great. You do everything great and you wouldn't think That the military right the military would have a hard time Telling people like hey, here's some areas where you need to improve you wouldn't think that the military especially like the seal teams You know the big tough seal is gonna have a hard time telling some someone hey, this is where your performances could be better, right? but actually No one likes having those hard conversations. I should say just about no one likes having those hard conversations and In fact, this is completely evident in the fact that there was an old evaluation system when I first got into the Navy and there you didn't have to force rank you could just make everyone perfect basically on paper and that's actually what happened That system was a 4.0 system. So it was a 4.0 was the highest that you could get And everyone was a 4.0 guy everyone Got 4.0's in everything and I actually have to take that back and I think I might have talked about this before but my first evaluation that I got at a seal team I wasn't even in an opportune yet, but I was going through The initial training that you used to do to seal team when you got to the seal team You did something called STT which was stood for seal tactical training and it basically taught you the little bit more advanced skills than you learned in buds and I got a 4.0 in everything, but I actually got a 3.8 in a category called human relations and I was I guess you know I talked to my friends and they'll give you a 4.0 and everything and everyone got a 4.0 except for me You got the 3.8 and so then you're supposed to get a counseling right from and the officer that had written my The officer that had written my evaluation and given me all 4.0 4.0 in tactics 4.0 and that's 4.0 and the other thing and then a 3.8 in human relations and he had to counsel me because that's what you have to do you have to go through and make sure that no one objects and He looked at me and he said you know I give you a 3.8 in human relations because Well because I think you're a little too hard on people that are that are unsat and I kind of took pride in that you know because I was at that time I wasn't really playing the game You know I kind of was thinking myself. Yeah, I that's right You know if you're unsat I am gonna be hard on you and you can probably guess of the group that I was in Which individual I was harder on than any of one else was actually that guy so that was kind of funny But you know after that after I got into a suit tuned in all you know everything was 4.0 all the time and Again, I'm not bragging at all about that because every single guy we all had 4.0s across the board on everything and everyone is the best seal and the seal teams ever in the history of ever That's what it was like And everyone was that's just that's the way it was everyone was the best so the Navy realized this Basically the Navy realized that all the leaders were cowards and When it came to telling the truth to the troops about where they stood and where they can improve So they made they made a change they made this drastic change to the evaluation and they changed this thing called forced ranking where whatever there was percentages on How many people could be ranked at the highest level like it was like 10% of your people could be ranked at the highest level And then 20% of the next tier and it went on down the line you didn't actually have to rank someone as bad but you couldn't rank a bunch of people at the top and It was it actually made a made a big difference all of a sudden Because now all of a sudden you had to do if you were a leadership position You had to give your some of your people some lower rankings and you actually had to figure out who is better and Eventually what they did is again People not wanting to have hard conversations eventually what they did is because How you advance in the Navy is based on your evaluations? Which is what we're talking about but it's also based on how much time you have in grade So you can't if you make if you're an E4 you can't make E5 For three years or there's some some random number like you cannot make E5 for three years And so what they started doing is just ranking you based on how long you were there for and so That's that's what they started doing so basically it didn't really help Because you still Ended up just saying oh well, you know, you're just new and that's why you didn't get promoted Well, I didn't really understand that when the first when the very first of the forced ranking evaluations came out I had just made E5 and Because I had just made E5 I got ranked at the bottom of the E5s in my platoon and Like I said at this time I wasn't really playing the game really fully so I was kind of went to my chief and my and my lieutenant With hey, why am I why am I at the bottom? How how can I be the lowest ranking of the E5s because that's just wrong? What about this guy here? You know what about this guy over here? You tell me that this guy is Is doing a better job than I am because I was working really hard and doing a good job and they didn't disagree with me What they said is like look yes, Jocco you're you're definitely doing a better job than that guy and that guy But here's the deal they're up for promotion and you're not and when you're up for promotion you'll be at the top when it's your turn and Again, I wasn't really playing the game so I said oh, okay, you know I get it Why do you just tell me that we're communists is what the world's going on there and you know there? No, we're not communists. It's just you know This is just the way that the system works. It's okay. So what you're telling me is this is a communist system is what's happening Thanks comrade And of course they did their best to explain it to me and I didn't really listen because Like I said don't wasn't really playing the game at this time was a young you know e5 getting after it but eventually It was me that was evaluating people and force ranking them and then it was me that was explaining the rules of why people got ranked Where they got ranked and why I gave them the grades that I gave them and Of course I did this a bunch from when I was an assistant platoon commander and a platoon commander and a task unit commander So I had known this a bunch and now I was the officer in charge of the training attachment and I had one of the guys that didn't like where he got ranked He was he he didn't like it he thought he deserved higher and He he thought he deserved a bunch of five o's that the highest possible grid and Or you know, maybe not on all the criteria, but on some of them and he actually requested an office call with me Meaning he wanted to come and talk to me which was kind of weird because at this time People literally would just walk in my office all the time and you know say hey, what's up? I got it, you know they were talking about something. I was super casual about people coming to see me. No no fact, right? so in this guy went and Actually organized an official meeting with me. I Was you know, I'm totally cool with it, but it was weird and he came in and he had his evaluation with him And he put it on my desk, and you know, he said something along the lines of You know, I got ranked in the middle of the pack and how did this happen and I should be at the top or or at least I should be near it And I should have five o's and in you know this category in that code of glory and this other category and the guy himself He wasn't a slacker by any stretch imagination. He was a goods really solid seal He wasn't Like an over the top outstanding front runner, but he was really really solid which You only allowed to have a very small number of guys that you're ranking as front runners and he wasn't there and you know, I was I was Better at this point at playing the game, you know up and down the chain of command and so what I do is I see sat there and I listened to him and I listened to his perspective. And as I was doing that, as I was listening to this guy, and I was thinking to myself, you know, this guy's a hard working seal. He thinks he should have higher grades across the board. He thinks he should be a top ranked guy with five pointos. And as I'm sitting there listening to him, I'm thinking, why does he actually think that? Why does he think that? What is going on in his head that he thinks that he should be a five point up? And of course, I'm thinking to myself, this is somehow my fault. This is going to be my fault because I'm the leader and I have a guy that's concerned enough about his rankings that he's in here talking to me. He actually set an appointment to come and talk to me about this. So obviously I had not done a good job at this point of explaining things to him. And if he doesn't get it, obviously there's going to be more people that think the same way. And then I'm thinking only one. When someone comes to you, the problem, they're not the only one. So that's what I'm thinking. And I'm thinking that he's thinking he's a five point. Oh, that's what he's thinking. He's thinking he's a five point. And he's not. And he thinks he should be. And then I'm trying to figure out and thinking to myself, okay, how do I explain to him where he is missing the mark? How can I explain to him that he's not quite a five point oh? His five point oh is outstanding. And then the answer kind of jumped out at me. The answer was the evaluation form itself. That's what it was. Because the evaluation form itself actually gives the definition of what a five point oh sailor is, what a five point oh leader is. And really when you break it down to what a five point oh human being is the evaluation actually spells it out in plain English. So I picked up the evaluation form that he had brought in and I started to read chunks of it to him. So the first little chunk that I read to red to him was a section called professional knowledge. And if you are a five point oh in professional knowledge, it gives you a list of what you are. And here's what it says. If you're a five point oh and professional knowledge, this is what it says. Recognized expert sought out by all for technical knowledge uses knowledge to solve complex technical problems meets advancement requirements early and with distinction. So, you know, I looked at him and said, okay, recognized expert. Are you a recognized expert? How often are you getting called by the East Coast or by the Seal Team to help them solve a problem? The answer was he's not. He's a good solid guy, really good instructor. He's not a he's not a recognized expert and he knew it. And then I read the three point oh, which is a middle grade like, hey, this is your average situation. I said, maybe this is you. I said, listen, strong working knowledge of rating, specialty and job reliably applies knowledge to accomplished tasks meets advancement requirements on time. This is a solid human being, right? This is solid. That's a that's a three point oh right there. And again, as I'm reading to this, this guy, yeah, he had strong working knowledge for sure. He was applying that knowledge to his job for sure. He was doing that. So, that's cool. That's 3.0. What about quality of work? Another section quality of work. Here's 5.0 for quality of work needs no supervision. Always produces exceptional work. No rework required. Maximizes resources. So, needs no resources. Let's think about that. I mean, this guy was working in another department. He was definitely being managed. And then always produces exceptional work. Again, this is as good, you can get embedded in exceptional. So I said, is that you? Do you not need any supervision? And he knew, I mean, I know I worked in the department. I know what's going on. He's not going to, you can't lie to me. And I said, how about this? Needs little supervision. He produces quality work. Few errors. Use his resources efficiently. You know what that is? That's 3.0. I actually gave you a 4.0 somewhere in between those two. I'm actually being kind of generous. What do you think? How about military bearing and character? Let's see what that looks like. Here's what the definition for military bearing and character is. US Navy 5.0 evaluation. Exemplary personal appearance. A leader of conduct, conduct on and off duty. A leader in physical readiness exemplifies Navy core values honor courage commitment. Now this guy is sitting in my office. He's in sloppy PT gear. His hair is a little bit long. And he's not one of these super stud seals. That's an awesome physical shape. He's kind of a guy that liked party a bit. And he was a hard work and seal. A great guy. I'm saying he wasn't exactly a model of conduct on and off duty. Think about what that means. A model of conduct. So that's 5.0. Then I said, listen, let me tell you what I tell him. Let me tell you what 3.0 is. Excellent personal appearance. Excellent conduct. Conchiantiously complies with regulations. Complies with physical readiness program. Lives up to Navy core values honor courage commitment. But that to me, you know, you're a pretty squared away guy. But how'd you do on the last PT test? Right? Because you didn't knock it out of the park. I know that. Right? So are you telling him? Yes. You're reading them. I'm doing what we're doing right here. I'm straight up reading them to them. Because it was really obvious that these standards are very, very high. And you know, also, here's the bottom of the barrel. Okay. So let me know. 1.0 for values or for military bearing and character. This is 1.0. Consistently unsatisfactory appearance, poor self control, conduct resulting in disciplinary action, unable to meet one or more physical readiness requirements, fails to live up to one or more Navy core values honor courage commitment. So this guy clearly is not a 1.0. That's a heart. You know, that's a bad sailor. But this guy is solid. He's in the middle. I think I had him with a 4.0. I said, are we good with a 4.0? Or are you going to tell me that you crushed that you were the leader of the pack on the last PT test that we did? You know, what you tell me were you the 5.0? No, couldn't honestly say it. And by now he kind of, he kind of got the message that he's no 1.0, but he definitely wasn't a 5.0 either. And clearly what I realized is he never actually read through what those standards were. And clearly that was my fault for not making sure that this guy and the rest of the people at my command understood what the grading criteria was. And I started to try and do that. I started to realize that the grading criteria was actually solid. And it was a good guide to being a really good seal, a really good sailor, a really good person. And as you read through some of these 5.0 qualities, here's the one for command organizational climate slash equal opportunity. So if you're a 5.0 in this category, measurably contributes to the Navy's increased retention and reduced attrition objective, proactive leader, exemplary mentor involved in subordinate personal development, leading to professional growth and sustained commitment, initiates support programs for military civilian and families to achieve exceptional command and organizational climate. The model of achievement develops unit cohesion by valuing differences as strengths. So let's think about that. That's a massive who's going to get 5.0 in that. And the seal team's not too many people because in the seal teams, who's initiating support programs means you're actively starting a program to help support, right? There's not a lot of guys that are going to hit 5.0 and that's the way it should be. Here's what 5.0 looks like for personal job accomplishment and initiative, energetic self starter completes tasks or qualifications early, far better than expected. So you're not just doing, you're doing it early and it's still even better than everyone else. It prioritizes wisely and with exceptional foresight seeks extra responsibility and takes on the hardest jobs. That's 5.0. Here's the 5.0 for teamwork, team builder, inspires cooperation and progress, focuses goals and techniques for teams, the best at accepting and offering team direction. That's a team player, that's teamwork. And here's the, here's how you get a 5.0 in leadership. But think about this, you think you're a good seal, you think you're a good sailor and you think I'm a good leader, right? Here's what you have. to do to get a 5.0 inspiring motivator and trainer. Subordinates reach highest level of growth and development. So now, since I'm about you anymore, this is about you being a leader and you, not just what you do, but what your subordinates, your subordinates have to reach the highest level of growth and development. It goes on superb organizer. Great foresight. Develops process improvements and efficiencies. Different types of achievements, leadership achievement, dramatically further command mission and vision. So what you do as a leader dramatically furthers the mission. Perseverance through the toughest challenges and inspires others, others exceptional communicator. How many people do you know that are exceptional communicators? There's not a lot of people that are exceptional communicators. That's a hard thing. That's not only being born with some communication skills. It's actively working and honing those skills through your lifetime before someone tells you you're an exceptional communicator. Makes subordinate safety conscience, maintains top safety record, constantly improves the personal and professional lives of others. So this is this is barely even about you anymore. It's how well, how well does your team do? So you've got to be 100% squared away if you're going to get a 5.0 in leadership. That's just the way it is. And like I said, you're not just getting judged on your success, but on the success. Not just of the mission, but of the actual individual people that work for you. And so this this granular look at these descriptions kind of changed this guy's perspective. And now he actually saw what he was supposed to be doing. He actually knew what he was aiming at. And he didn't know that before. And you know whose fault it is that he didn't know that it's my fault. Because I'm the guy that's in charge and I thought everyone knew. Or I thought at least everyone was aiming as high as they possibly good at everything. But that's actually naive. It's naive for a couple reasons. Not only is not everyone aiming to be the best they can. Some people don't care about some things, but sometimes people don't actually understand what it is that they're supposed to be aiming at. They don't understand what the metric is, how they're being measured. And clearly you have to have something to aim at. And if you don't have anything to aim at, then you're never going to get anywhere. You're never going to you're never going to hit the target that you're not aiming at. You have to aim at the target to hit it. You have to know what you are trying to be or you won't be that. And the Navy, I think, with this evaluation form does a decent job. If you kind of can take a step back and one problem is with the Navy evaluation system and all the evaluation systems in the military is they're very administrative. It turns into much more of a paperwork drill than it is an actual attempt to make people improve themselves. Right? It's there. But people go, "Oh, this is where I fell out. Pull them up for a promotion, cool, I'm mad." They don't read it. Right? They don't actually, it's not a true counseling up to the objective isn't to really truly improve those people. That's one of the problems with this, with the counseling system inside the Navy. And it happens in the other branches as well. But if you read that sheet and you kind of take a look at it, then you realize, "Okay, there's some things that I can aim at now." And the Navy does a decent job of that. I'll tell you, the Marine Corps does an even better job. The United States Marine Corps evaluation system is more detailed and it's more descriptive and it's more complete. The whole Navy evaluation is two pages long. The Marine Corps, there's six pages long. And one thing that's interesting about the Marine Corps, you know, in the Navy one, they list, "Okay, you're a 1.0. This is what you're like as a 1.0." The Marine Corps doesn't even give description for the low end of the spectrum. They don't even exist. They're not going to waste time describing a loser Marine. They have a higher minimum standard basically. But this is one thing that struck me. The first time I kind of noticed the Marine Corps evaluation system because it's an administrative thing. So it's not like I would see it on a regular basis. When I was in Ramadhi, I was in the Brigade Tactical Operations Center and I was probably there for a meeting with the Brigade Commander or whatever. And it was there for whatever reason. And one of the Marine officers was in there who I knew and we were kind of talking. And he was filling out an evaluation for one of his guys and he was on the back page of his evaluation. And I was just, you know, being nosy. I guess looking at what it was like, looking at what their system was like comparing it to our system. And as I was looking at the form, on the last page, the page he was actually working on, there was a graphic representation of Marines and of how they rank Marines. And it kind of looked like a Christmas tree. So if you picture a Christmas tree and the whole Christmas tree is made up of little Eagle Globe and Anchors, which is the symbol of the Marine Corps. And so there's a bunch of little Eagle Globe and Anchors. And they're all positioned on this piece of paper and it looks like a Christmas tree. And so the bottom, actually the bottom of this graphic, the bottom of this Christmas tree is just an empty space. There's nothing there. And that line is represented. There's a little indicator that shows what that line represents. That line represents the unqualified Marine. So there should be no unqualified Marines in your unit. And then it goes up one level and now you've just got one single Eagle Globe and Anchor representing one Marine. And this, this is, it looks like the trunk of the Christmas tree. And that, that line is labeled a qualified Marine. So now you've got one guy, you know, or percentage wise, one person that is simply just a qualified Marine. He's qualified, but there's not, there shouldn't be that many of them. And then they go now, you picture Christmas tree above the trunk. Now it's a big wide area. And that's where they go to this next level, which has the most, it's like the middle third of the Christmas tree. And that area, they labeled that area one of the many highly qualified professionals who form the majority of this grade. So the biggest chunk of people is sort of in the middle third of this Christmas tree. And that's what it is. Hey, that's what most of that's what most of the guys are. There's highly qualified people. They make up the most of this group of that are that I'm evaluating. And there they are. And then above that third on this Christmas tree is a, now the Christmas tree is getting smaller, right? Now we're getting into a narrow group in this narrow group is labeled. And it's called. So if you're in this group, you're being labeled as one of the few exceptionally qualified Marines. And that again, that's a much smaller number than that middle group. And then you get to the top of the Christmas tree where there is a single, equal globe and anchor representing the very best of this group. And it's up there alone at the pinnacle of performance. And there's a label for this singular Marine at the top of his group. And the label says the eminently qualified Marine. And I remember when I read that, when I read those words, the eminently qualified Marine. And I thought to myself, that is the ultimate praise. And that's pretty much how the Marine Corps evaluation ends. And it ends in this epic way because it is. And it's weird to say this. It's an epic document. And I want to talk about this document today. And I want to start off by the way that the document itself starts off. So this is the Marine Corps fitness report. This is how they grade Marines. And it starts off with the common dance guidance. So the first thing they get is guidance from the most senior Marine in the Marine Corps. The common dance guidance says, "The completed fitness report is the most important information component in manpower management. It is the primary means of evaluating a Marine's performance and is the common dance primary tool for the selection of personnel for promotion, augmentation, resident, schooling, command, and duty assignments. Therefore, the completion of this report is one of an officer's most critical responsibilities. Parent in this duty is the commitment of each reporting senior and reviewing officer to ensure the integrity of the system by giving close attention to accurate marking and timely reporting. Every officer serves a role in the scrupulous maintenance of this evaluation system, ultimately important to both the individual and the Marine Corps. markings only serve to dilute the air. actual value of each report, reviewing officers will not concur with inflated reports. So out of the gate, we're getting put in check. Do not come here telling everyone they're great. That's not that's not gonna fly. We're rejecting that outright from the start. Now we start the evaluation. And again, this is set up a little bit similar to the Navy. And they start breaking out what your performance is based on. The first thing that it's based on is mission accomplishment. And mission accomplishment, they break into two things. The first thing is performance. So here's what it says about performance of mission accomplishment. Results achieved during the reporting period. How well those duties inherent to a Marine's billet plus all additional duties formally and informally assigned were carried out. So the low end, it says meets requirements of billet and additional duties, aptitude commitment and competence meet expectations results maintain status quo. So that's like you're doing your job. And then if you're at the high end of the spectrum, results far surpass expectations, recognizes and exploits new resources, creates opportunities, emulated, sought after as an expert with influence beyond unit, impact significant, innovative approaches to problems produce significant gains in quality and efficiency. If you just take that single bullet and that's what you try and achieve, you're smoking. You're crushing. You have someone like that working for you and you're in heaven because this guy's going to make things happen. That's what it says about professionalism. It says that professionalism demonstrates technical knowledge and practical skill in the execution of the Marines overall duties. Combines training, education and experience, translates skills into actions which contribute to accomplishing tasks and missions, imparts knowledge to others. Think about this one, translates skills into actions. That's kind of a big deal. How many people have skills but they can't translate them into actions? Think about that's your life. Hey, you got some skills but you don't use them. You can't put them anywhere. You can't put them into effect. Here's the middle grade for proficiency. Demonstrates mastery of all required skills. So if you've mastered your skills, you're still just in the middle. Expertise, education and experience consistently enhance mission accomplishment, innovative troubleshooter and problem solver. Effectively imparts skills to subordinates. These are the kind of things where if you know that you're supposed to impart skills to your subordinates, you pay attention to it. You start doing it. But you might not recognize that that's part of your job. That's part of your life. Here's what it sounds like if you're an expert. True expert in field, knowledge and skills impact far beyond those of peers. Translates broad based education and experience into forward thinking, innovative actions. Makes immeasurable impact on mission accomplishment. This teacher selflessly imparts expertise to subordinates peers and seniors. Think about that. That is a high bar. That is a high bar. You could work diligently every single day and fall short of that. But let me tell you, it's important that you know that you should be working towards it. Next section. Individual character. Isn't it legit when you're going to grade someone on their character? This is outstanding. This is outstanding. How many people are not thinking about what their character is? How many people are not actively minding the way that their actions reflect their character? Happens all the time. If we were thinking about if you knew you were getting grade on it, maybe you wouldn't take those those base actions. Yeah. Yeah, kind of like goes along with like how you said that one time. Imagine someone's video taping you. They're going to do the playback. It's like, man, if you go, if you have that in the back of your mind, yeah, you act right. That's the first step though. Because the actual, that's the first step because you might think, well, I'm being videoed, but this is what I'm expected to do. So you might be doing something that's not correct. You might be off-char. You might be aiming at the wrong thing. Hey, I'm acting like a tough guy. I want everyone to know that I'm tough. You realize, oh, that's actually stupid. Yeah. So you can be you can have in your mind that I'm going to keep my character, but you're wrong. Because you might be aiming at the wrong thing. Yeah. So this gives you some pretty specific things to aim at. Topic number one, court courage, moral or physical strength to overcome danger, fear, difficulty or anxiety, personal acceptance of responsibility and accountability, placing conscience over competing interests, regardless of consequences, conscious, overriding decision to risk bodily harm or death to accomplish the mission or save others, the will to persevere despite uncertainty. What if you're thinking about the fact that you're getting graded on your will to persevere despite uncertainty? You think about that every day. You don't know what your future holds, but you're going to persevere regardless. Think if you're getting graded on that every day. Here's what the bottom end of the spectrum is demonstrates inner strength. So at the minimum, you're demonstrating inner strength and acceptance of responsibility commensurate with the scope of duties and experience, willing to face moral or physical danger in pursuit of mission accomplishment. So even at the low end of the spectrum, you're still willing to face danger, moral or physical challenges. Here's the middle, guided by conscience in all actions, proven ability, proven ability to overcome danger, fear, difficulty or anxiety. Exhibits bravery in the face of adversity and certainty, not deterred by moral difficult situations, morally difficult situations or hazardous responsibilities. How often are people deterred by difficult situations? Daily, morally difficult situation. Here's the top of the top of the spectrum for courage, uncommon bravery and capacity to overcome obstacles and inspire others in the face of moral dilemma or life threatening danger. So it's not even just about you. You have to actually take it to level where you're inspiring others. Demonstrated under the most adverse conditions, selfless. Always places conscience over competing interests regardless of physical or personal consequences. That's that competition we talked about. The competition between, oh, I'm going to take care of myself and I'm going to take care of the team. I'm going to take care of the mission. What's doing? What's right to do instead of what is easy to do? The next section that you get created on your individual character is effectiveness under stress. This is just outstanding because there's not, think about this. You don't even see this in business. I don't see this in when people evaluate other in the business world, but they're stressed in business world. There's a different kind of stress, but it's stress. Here's effectiveness under stress. Here's what you're doing. Thinking, functioning, and leading effectively under conditions of physical and or mental pressure, maintaining composure appropriate for the situation while displaying steady purpose of action, enabling one to inspire others while continuing to lead under adverse conditions. Physical and emotional strength, resilience, and endurance are elements. Low end of the spectrum exhibits discipline, stability under pressure. An effective problem solving skills are evident. Low end of the spectrum, by the way. How many people do you think do you know that don't exhibit any discipline or stability under pressure? Right? There's all kinds of people. We know when's the last time you didn't do a good job under pressure? Probably this morning. It happens, right? Yeah, fully. Very common. Especially when you're not thinking about it. Especially when you're not aimed at the correct response to pressure. Especially when you haven't put a standard in your mind. Remember when you used to kind of freak out in Jiu-Jitsu when you got claustrophobic, right? Sure. Yeah. Right? Sure. You'd get in a position. Yeah, sir. Yeah. Usually side control, right? You didn't like that. Yeah. The pressure on the neck, the pressure on the chest. There were more circumstances surrounding those scenarios. That's great. Yeah. And moral problems. Yeah, I would have to. Yeah. Okay. Yes, I do remember that. Yeah. At some point, you said to yourself, all right, I cannot act that way anymore. You made a, you set a bar for yourself. Yes, sir. That's the beginning of solving the problem. That's what I love about this. actually setting a bar of when you're under stress, this is how you got to act. If you're a little above average for effectiveness under stress, here's where you're at. Consistently demonstrates maturity, mental agility, and willpower during periods of adversity. Provides order to chaos through the application of intuition, problem solving skills, and leadership. Composure reassures other. Imagine you're on a team and this is the average guy. This is just so impressive. But my point is, unless you tell your guys what average is, they won't know it. They don't understand it. Here's the high end. So this is when you look at your troops, you say, this is what I want you to do. When we come under massive amounts of stress, here's the model I want you to try and perform as. It demonstrates, sell the matched presence of mind under the most demanding circumstances, stabilizes any situation through the resolute and timely application of direction, focus, and personal presence. Now, when I was doing this, I was actually only going to read the high end when I was thinking about this, but then I realized each one of these builds and that person at the high end already has the other two. But there's other elements in there that aren't mentioned in the high end. So you got to mention me and you assume when someone's on the high end, they got those obviously they got the lower end things wrapped up. So you got to combine all these three together, the low grade, the middle grade and the high grade. We want people to show initiative. Talk about this all the time. This is the essence of decentralized command is that people show initiative. Here's what they say about initiative action in the absence of specific direction, seeing what needs to be done and acting without prompting. So I'm listening to all of these and this whole thing. And at first, I was like, oh, that's cool. That's how the Navy kind of evaluates people and sure you're going to talk about the Marines and stuff. But maybe like the second little part you started reading, I just started applying it to myself. That's what I'm saying. Like my life. Yes. Okay. So you know, we're all part of it. Like if you have a family, if you're the dad or something, right, or you're whatever, if you're in a family unit, you're part of a team right there. And you know, your goals changed from time to time, but you sort of know the goals. So I'm like thinking in my mind every little like element that you're talking about. I'm like, okay, let me evaluate myself for sure with this. Like how good and you're right, man. So a lot of a lot of times like, okay, so performing under under stress, right? I don't like there's all these little things. You're going to the beach and you're trying to make it on. You know, you try to make it to beach. We have a high stress level. The kids need their water and they need their change of clothes. You might get cold. They need a jacket and all the stuff. Meanwhile, the clock is ticking. You know, daylight, you know, all the stuff. You don't want to miss sunset. So how are you going to perform under that stress, you know, and I get it. Well, the funny thing is you're bringing up this, you're bringing up this and I'm actually completely making fun of you for bringing up that stress. How often are you at a public place and you see a family and they're running later, whatever. And you see a leader of the family, mother or father freaking out and losing their composure over the stress that we're actually joking about. You're a little bit serious. I'm joking about it. But still you see people lose their minds because of dumb things. Oh, yeah. And there's a little bit of stress in their world and they drop ball. They freak out. Exactly. So my question is, do those people, has anyone ever sat them down and explained to them what the standard is? Yes, sir. And that's my point here. Yeah, exactly. A lot of times people don't even recognize, they don't even know they don't even understand what the eminently qualified human being, how they are going to act in these situations. Yeah, totally, totally, exactly 100% right there. So like, okay, so you know how you ever have a guy who like loses his temper and then like you say, hey, you kind of lost it there. And then he goes back to how he felt like almost like the way he felt justified using his temper. Right. So you just understand who's the thing, Brad? Look, we know you felt like that. You totally demonstrate. So you don't have to explain that. But yeah, you were feeling this and you behave the certain way. But if that guy knew that he was being evaluated on his behavior, regardless of how he feels, but he'd be aiming how you put that's it. That's the key part. It's not, it's not just the grading part. It's you have to know what the standard is because that guy that might not even understand, hey, if I lose my temper, it's I think it was either I think it was JP JP really took it to heart when he heard me say losing your temper is a weakness. Yeah. Before that, he just didn't, you know, because you see other people in your life, you see other team guys, you see your dad, you see your uncle and they fly off the handle and you almost have a respect for it. You definitely respect your when your dad loses your temper, you kind of think, wow, that's powerful. How can I have some of that power while you just do that? Right. So it's a learned mechanism. And then eventually you realize or someone tells you, hey, when you lose your temper, you're not in control. Matter of fact, you're not in control at all. And whatever made you lose your temper is controlling you and losing your temper is is a weakness. And so that's the big difference. It's not just, hey, you're being graded, you're being watched, which is definitely a great mindset to have, but you have to understand what the parameters are that you're being measured by that you're being graded on. And that's where this comes into play. The next section I just started with initiative. We want subordinates to take initiative, but we want everyone to take initiative, right? Your kids, you want your kids to take initiative. You want people in your free one, everyone to take initiative. I used to say to the young seal, you put in commanders and asking your commanders, I would say, imagine if everyone in your every one of your fire team leaders just was doing something smart. They just took initiative and made it happen. Your job becomes so easy because you don't have to control everything. Everyone's just making things happen. That's initiative. So here's what it says about initiative action in the absence of specific direction, seeing what needs to be done and acting without prompting. The instinct to begin a task and follow through energetically on one's own accord, being creative, proactive, and decisive, transforming opportunity into action. So that's what initiative. If you're on the low end, you demonstrate willingness to take action in the absence of absence of specific direction. Acts commensurate with grade, training, and experience. That's what we expect of you. A little bit, a little bit better. In the middle, self-motivated and action-oriented. Forsyte and energy consistently transform opportunity into action, develops and pursues creative initiative solutions, or sorry, innovative solutions, acts without prompting self-starter. That's what we want. And then here we go, the high end. Highly motivated and proactive. Displays exceptional awareness of surroundings and environment, uncanny ability to anticipate mission requirements and quickly formulate original, far-reaching solutions. Always takes decisive, effective action. With definitions like that, it's no wonder there's only one marine at the top of that Christmas tree. Because that is a squared away individual right there. Far-reaching. You know what's crazy about this? Having put so many people through training myself, even though there's only one allotted space up there, there are so many people that are capable of this kind of behavior. It's way more than one percent. It's way more than 10 percent. If you have people that understand what the parameters are and really aim toward them, you can get a lot closer than most people would think. Yeah. I obviously don't know, but it seems like what you're talking about. A lot of people just don't know. They don't know the standard. They don't know. They don't know. It's not been made clear to them. The next section. Leadership. And this is broken in multiple sections. Obviously, because leadership is the most important thing on the battlefield. So this is their biggest section. Leadership. Section number one, leading subordinates. The inseparable relationship between leader and lead. The application of leadership principles to provide direction and motivate subordinates using authority, persuasion, and personality to influence subordinates to accomplish assigned tasks. Sustaining, motivation, and morale while maximizing subordinates performance. So there you go. That's what you're going to do as a leader. Low end. Engaged, provides instructions and directs execution seeks to accomplish mission in ways that sustain motivation and morale. Actions contribute to unit effectiveness. Cool. So you're acceptable. Yeah. Middle ground achieves a highly effective balance between direction and delegation. We're talking a little dichotomy. Effectively tasks subordinates and clearly delineates standards expected. Enhance is performance through constructive supervision. Foster's motivation enhances morale. Builds and sustains teams that successfully meet mission requirements. Encourage is initiative and candor among subordinates. So you're So you can see that the low end, you're kind of just telling people what to do a little bit, right? Now you're starting to ask for feedback. You're starting to build that bond. Here's the high end. Number one thing for the high end promotes creativity and energy among subordinates by striking in the ideal balance of direction and delegation. Use highest levels of performance from subordinates by encouraging individual initiative. That's decentralized command. I'm going to let you guys run and that's going to maximize performance. This is an incredible term. Ingenders, willing subordination, loyalty and trust that allows subordinates to overcome their perceived limitations. Making subordination when your team actually wants to follow you. Personal leadership fosters highest level of motivation and morale, ensuring mission accomplishment even in the most difficult circumstances. Next section, developing subordinates, commitment to train, educate and challenge all Marines, regardless of race, religion, ethnic background or gender, mentorship, cultivating professional and personal development of subordinates, developing team players in a spritical core, ability to combine teaching and coaching, creating an atmosphere tolerant of mistakes in the course of learning. You don't hear, you don't think about that very often in the Marine Corps. Hey, we're tolerant of mistakes. That's how you learn low end of the spectrum maintains an environment that allows personal professional development, ensures subordinates participate in all mandated development programs. Global Ground develops and institutes innovative programs. So you're proactively trying to bring up and raise your subordinates, make them better. To include PMA, which is professional military education, that emphasize personal and professional development of subordinates. Challenges subordinates to exceed their perceived potential thereby enhancing unit morale and effectiveness. Creates an environment where all Marines are confident to learn through trial and error. As a mentor, prepare subordinates for increased responsibility and duties. By the way, this is the number two item under leadership. The first one is leading. The second one is developing your subordinates. Here's the top end of the spectrum. Widely recognized and emulated as a teacher, coach and leader. Any Marine would desire to serve with this Marine because they know they will grow personally and professionally. Subordinate and unit performance far surpasses expected results due to mentorship and team building talents. Attitude toward subordinate development is infectious extending beyond the unit. That's bold. Now, you are training your people so well that other people in other units are starting to train their people. Think about that impact right there. That's how you develop. You develop your subordinate so much that some other leader in a different company in a different platoon in a different battalion says we're going to start following that program. I'm going to start stepping it up. That's leadership right there. Section number three, setting the example. The most visible facet of leadership, how well a Marine serves as a role model for all others. The role action demonstrates the highest standards of conduct, ethical behavior, fitness and appearance, bearing, demeanor and self-discipline are elements. Low end. Maintains Marine Corps standards for appearance, weight and uniform wear. Sistains required level of physical fitness adheres to the tenants of the Marine Corps values. Fine. You're accepted. Middle grade. All conduct on and off duty reflects highest Marine Corps standards of integrity, bearing and appearance. Character is exceptional. Actively seek self-improvement in wide-ranging areas. Dedication to duty and professional example encourage others self-improvement efforts. That's the middle grade. In the middle grade, you reflect the highest Marine Corps standards of integrity, bearing and appearance. You know what that means? That means 24 hours a day you're in the game. That's what that means. It means you're actively actively seeking self-improvement in wide-ranging areas. You're trying to get better everywhere. That's middle ground, by the way. High ground. Model Marine. Frequently emulated. Frequently conduct, behavior and actions are tone-setting. An inspiration to subordinates peers and seniors. Remarkable dedication to improving self and others. What are you trying to do to get better? I mean, I say that on this podcast since day one, we're trying to get better. What are you doing actually? What's the activity? You see here a lot in this action, action, action, words into action, ideas into actions, skills into action. I was going back and forth with a guy that I did some work with for echelon front. I worked with him quite a few years ago overseas and we still text back and forth from time to time. I said, "Hey, because he was telling me some of the notes he had taken." I said, "Send me some of the notes." One of the notes that he, for the first note he sent me was, "You can't think things better." It's a solid piece of advice because he's one of these guys that was a thinker, right? Big thinker. I'm all about thinking. Let's develop our brain. Let's develop our mind power. Let's think about things. Let's be thoughtful. That's fine. But you can't think things better. They're not going to get better unless you actually apply the skills, skills into action, thoughts into action. Next, ensuring well-being of subordinates. Confidence is a way to focus on mission and understanding the importance of subordinates. Concern for family readiness is inherent. The importance placed on welfare of subordinates is based on the belief that marines take care of their own. Low end of the spectrum deals confidently with issues pertinent to subordinate welfare and recognizes suitable courses of action that support subordinates well-being, applies available resources allowing subordinates to effectively concentrate on the mission. At a minimum, you're absolutely taking care of your people. Middle grade instills and/or reinforces a sense of responsibility among junior marines for themselves and their subordinates. Actively fosters the development of and uses support systems for subordinates which improve their ability to contribute to unit mission accomplishment. Efforts to enhance subordinate welfare improve the unit's ability to accomplish their mission. People don't think about that fact. The people that are actually accomplishing the mission are people. If those people aren't ready to perform because you've neglected them, you're not going to be able to accomplish the mission. High grade. Noticeably, enhances subordinates well-being, resulting in measurable increase in unit effectiveness. Maximizes unit and base resources to provide subordinates with the best support available. Most of approach serves to energize unit members to take care of their own. Thereby correcting potential problems before they can hinder subordinates effectiveness. Widely recognized for techniques and policies that produce results and build morale. Builds strong family atmosphere, puts motto, mission first, marines always into action. Boom. Introduce section for leadership. Communication skills. The efficient transmission and receipt of thoughts and ideas that enable and enhance leadership. Equal importance given to listening, speaking, writing, and critical reading skills. Interactive, allowing one to perceive problems and situations, provide concise guidance, and express complex ideas in a form easily understood by everyone. Allows subordinates to ask questions, raise issues, and concerns, and venture opinions. Contributes to a leader's ability to motivate as well as counsel. Minimum. Build and receiving and conveying information communicates effectively in performance of duties. That's the minimum. Above average, middle grade. Clearly articulates thoughts and ideas verbally and in writing. Middle ground. Do you know how hard it is for people to clearly articulate thoughts and ideas verbally and in writing? It is a skill you need to work on all the time. By the way, this gets you a middle grade here. - Yeah. - Communication in all forms is accurate, intelligent, concise and timely. Those standards, accurate, intelligent, concise and timely, communicates with clarity and verve ensuring understanding of intent or purpose encourages and considers the contributions of others. High grade, here we go. Highly developed facility, in verbal communication, adept in composing written documents of the highest quality. Combined presence and verbal skills which indent engender confidence and achieve understanding irrespective of setting, situation or size of group addressed. Displays an intuitive sense of when and how to listen. So, read, write, speak, listen and do it all the time. If you're in a leadership position or you wanna be in one. The reading part, people ask me what I learned in college. One of the most important things that I learned in college was I was an English major. This is why I was an English major by the way because I recognized when I was at a SEAL team as a young officer that one of the most important things I was gonna be dealing with was communicating with other humans and I needed to have good command of the English language and of reading and of writing the English language. But when I had to decipher Shakespeare and I took a lot of Shakespeare and you realize that you don't know what words mean and you realize that you don't understand the sentence, construction and you what you realize is that you have to break them down and go through them and figure it out. So when I would get the rules of engagement from up the chain of command five years later and I didn't understand 'em 'cause they were using words I didn't know. I said, okay, what I need to do is look these up. Read it, find out some substitute words, make sense of it, look up the definition of what they're specifically talking about and go from there. Because when you first, if you just open up Shakespeare and you don't understand something, what do you do? You say it's stupid. When somebody writes a rules of engagement and there's words in there, you don't understand. If you don't understand how to parse things apart and look up definitions and can't be humble enough to recognize that there's some things that you don't know. Well, then all you do is go, this is stupid. Check, communications. The next thing, no one really probably thinks that this is gonna be in here for the Marine Corps. The next section you're getting graded on as a Marine is intellect and wisdom. There are things to people in the military as a bunch of knuckle draggers. I think it's all about brawn. But there you go. Intellect and wisdom. Professional military education, PME, committed to intellectual growth in ways beneficial to the Marine Corps. Increases breadth and depth of war fighting and leadership aptitude. Resources include resident schools, professional qualifications and certification processes, non-resident and other extension courses, civilian educational, institutional coursework, a personal reading program that includes but is not limited to selections from the Comedance Reading List. Participation in discussion groups and military societies and involvement in learning through new technologies. You gotta get in the game right there. You gotta get educated. Here's low end. Maintains currency and required military skills and related developments. Has completed or is enrolled in appropriate level of PME for grade and level of experience, recognizes and understands new and creative approaches to service issues remains abreast of contemporary concepts and issues. Middle grade PME Outlook expands beyond MOS and required education. So you're not even worried about your own job. You've got that covered. Now you're going outside of what your job is. Develops and follows a comprehensive personal program which includes broad and professional reading and or academic coursework advances new concepts and ideas. And here's your high end. Dedicated to lifelong learning. As a result of active and continuous efforts widely recognized as an intellectual leader in professionally related topics, makes time for study and takes advantage of all resources and programs, introduces new and creative approaches to service issues, engages in a broad spectrum of forums and dialogues. So this is never gonna stop. You gotta keep feeding your brain. The next thing you're getting graded on, intellect and wisdom, decision making ability, viable and timely problem solution. Contributing elements are judgment and decisiveness. Decisions reflect the balance between an optimal solution and a satisfactory workable solution that generates tempo. So there's a good dichotomy for you. Optimal decision on one side. Workable decision that can keep you moving on the other side. You gotta balance that dichotomy. Decisions are made within the context of the commanders established intent and the goal of mission accomplishment. So of course you're trying to support the commanders intent. Anticipation, mental agility, intuition and success are inherent. This is not the first time they brought up intuition in here. How you develop intuition, experience, wisdom, reading. Low end. Low end makes sound decisions leading to mission accomplishment. That's the minimum. The minimum is to make sound decisions actively collects and evaluates information in ways alternative alternatives to achieve timely results, confidently approaches problems, accepts responsibility for outcomes. Middle grade demonstrates mental agility. Effectively prioritizes and solves multiple complex problems. This prioritizes an execute. Analytical abilities enhanced by experience, education and intuition. Anticipates problems and implements viable long term solutions. Solutions steadfast willing to make difficult decisions. That's a high bar for middle grade. High grade. Widely recognized and sought after to resolve the most critical complex problems. Seldom matched analytical and intuitive abilities. Accurately forsees unexpected problems and arrives at well-time decisions despite fog and friction. Completely confident approach to all problems. Masterfully strikes a balance between the desire for perfect knowledge and greater tempo. Widely recognized to solve problems. This one, this little line here, accurately forsees unexpected problems and arrives at well-time decisions despite fog and friction. Has a big ask right there. You gotta be in the game. You gotta be in the game to get to that level. Last thing you're getting great on on for intellectual wisdom is judgment. The discretionary aspect of decision making draws on core values, knowledge and personal experience to make wise choices. Comprehends the consequences of contemplated courses of action. Minimum grade. Majority of judgments are measured, circumspect, relevant and correct. Minimum. Middle grade decisions are constant, are consistent and uniformly correct, tempered by consideration of their consequences. Able to identify, isolate and assess relevant factors in the decision making process. Opinions sought by others. Subborn it's personally personal interest in favor of impartiality. In the high end, decisions reflect exceptional insight and wisdom beyond this marine's experience. Counsel sought by all, often an arbiter, consistent superior judgment inspires the confidence of seniors. So that's how you get graded on intellect and wisdom. And actually the last thing that they grade you on is they actually grade you on how well you evaluate your other Marines. The extent to which this officer serving as a reporting official conducted or not. or required others to conduct accurate, uninflated, and timely evaluations. This is the last thing you get graded off. And they go through, you have a low end as like you did a good job. The high end is you do an outstanding job, but they're grading you on how well you grade. And then you get to the last page, which is where you have the Christmas tree, the Eagle Globe and Anchor Christmas tree, comparative assessment, provide a comparative assessment of potential by placing an X in the appropriate box, in marking the comparison, consider all the Marines of this grade whose professional abilities are known to you personally. And then you go through that tree, the unqualified unsatisfactory, a qualified Marine, one of the many highly qualified professionals who formed the majority of this grade, one of the few exceptionally qualified Marines. And then you get to the top, the singular Marine at the top, who is the eminently qualified Marine, the eminently qualified Marine. And that's what I think makes this, makes this interesting, is to consider that statement eminently qualified. And think about where you're at. And you're not at the top, I'm not at the top, none of us are at the top, who can be? But what are we striving to be? What are we striving to be? Are we striving to be the most eminently qualified human being that we can be? Do you even know what that means? Do you even have those thoughts in your head? I'm guessing you don't, I barely do. I know I've had vague thoughts. I know I had definitions that floated around my head of what I was trying to be, what I'm trying to be today. But why aren't those solid? Why aren't they? I was thinking about this, I was talking to Dave Burke. Good deal, Dave. Yeah, good deal, Dave. And I was like, hey, we need to build this. You're basically an evaluation system for humans to become eminently qualified as a human. What does that look like? Not only to graved yourself, but to actually know what you are trying to be. So Dave and I will work on that. So stay on by to get some. And until we do get that out, then think about, think about are there areas that you know what the goal is that you're walking around thinking that you deserve a 5.0. But you really actually, you really actually deserve it too. I know I do that. Yes. Right? Yes. I'm thinking I'm good, I'm walking around, I'm thinking I'm running everything right, I'm thinking I'm, I think I come correct. You, yes. But the reality is I don't. Yeah. And the reality is you have that little moving goalpost in your head, you move it around a little bit, right? You give yourself a little bit more slack one day than you tighten it up because you're feeling good the next day than you slack it off a little bit more. As far as your concern, that's a 5.0 right there. You're in there. And the reality is I don't measure up the way I should be measuring up on a daily basis, on an hourly basis. Who's grading me? Who's lagging to me? You know who is me? Me? But until we clarify what the aim is, what the goal is and what those standards are, how am I supposed to hold myself accountable to those standards when they don't even exist? So I'm gonna make them exist. I'm gonna put them in, I'm gonna put them on paper. We're gonna come up with that eminently qualified human being, what that looks like. 'Cause we all got, all got ideas floating around up there. Yeah. Well, I'm gonna bring it. I'm gonna apply that. Put it into action. Put it into action, right? Are we doing everything that we could be doing, everything that we should be doing? Are we cutting corners? Are we slack enough? Are we giving ourselves a 5.0 when we should be at best cracking a two? Daily. How much are we leaving on the table every day? That's a question for you, right? How much are we leaving on the table? How much are you saying, "Oh, you know what, I can just leave that there. It's fine." How many things do you accept as collateral damage? Like, something goes wrong, like one thing goes wrong. So there's just collateral damage. Other things are just gonna fall by the way, and you're good with it. You're good with it. Something, you know, I hurt my knee. Oh, cool. Guess what, I'm gonna eat a donut, right? Is that where we're at? Or is there collateral damage? Oh, work was hard. Therefore, I'm gonna, you know, treat my family, not gonna have a good family quality time tonight. Collateral damage, 'cause they, what do you expect from me? Right, where is the collateral damage? Why are we allowing this collateral damage? Well, part of the reason I'm telling you that we allow this collateral damage is 'cause we're not effectively grading ourselves, and even worse than that, we don't even know what standard we're trying to achieve. No one's even told us the minimum standard. Oh, okay, so why is your life going marginal right now? Why are you doing okay? Why am I doing okay right now? Well, it's because I have some vague idea. I have, I kind of know I'm heading in the right general direction. That's not good enough to get maximum. It's not good enough to be eminently qualified. It doesn't work. You have to step it up. You have to, you have to have the unmitigated daily discipline in all things, and that's hard. It's hard for one day, never mind every single day. So, I'm gonna make this evaluation. Dave and I are gonna make it. I'll get it out to y'all. And until then, and I'll try and get it turned around 'cause quick as possible, at least some kind of a, what is it called, an early version, a beta test? Is that what it's called? Sure, I think that's the technology. Right, right, right, right. Yeah, sure, beta test. We're gonna beta test. We're trying to get something out there quick. And until then, start looking at yourself as usual, your strengths, your weaknesses, and start trying to see where you can improve, start moving towards the goal of becoming the eminently qualified human being to where we're at. And I think that is all I've got for tonight. So, Echo Charles, what do you got? Well, I got my thoughts. I know we're trying to step up. We got thoughts. Well, yeah, so you, and you actually mentioned it in like right there at the end there, where all these little eva, oh, not little bit, all these evaluations are like, you do this consistently and all this stuff. So there's two kinds of parts to that. When I was thinking, you have to do all these good things, to be the minimum, or to be the, you know, you can't even really be in the group if you're not in the minimum, right? But you gotta do those things every day. Like you have to essentially be known for these things. So how we get jammed up, I think, when we are conscious of like, how good am I doing in XYZ area of my life, whatever. And if it's something that you're working on, a lot of times we don't get the accurate evaluation to ourselves because we'll do, we'll do it really good one day. And we'll do it really good two days. And I'm like, dang, I'm pretty good at this. So I'm gonna go ahead and give myself like a four or whatever. But meanwhile, you only did it twice. I mean, you know, in the whole week, you did it twice. You're so happy because it's this big change because you usually do it zero times. So you're like, hey, I got this. - Yeah, your minimum bar was set so low that you think you're crushing it. - Oh yeah. - Oh yeah. - Oh yeah, good times. - In your business. - Because in your mind, you kind of are comparatively. - Comparatively. - Comparatively you are. - But the thing is like, if you have a standard and stuff, then you can act more accurately, but we don't have standards. So in your mind, it feels like, oh, I got this. I got it. - It feels good. - I got it linked. I'm a four now. You know, I used to be a one, I'm a four now. So meanwhile, you're not a four. You're actually still a one. - Yeah. - Completely. - Yeah. - But you think you're, and there's also this. And I talked to Dave about this a little bit. There's a short-term grade, and there's a long-term grade. 'Cause check this out. Let's say you never worked out before. And you've been watching video games and eating donuts and just, you know, in bad physical shape. Your grade, your overall grade for physical fitness is whatever. It's a one point. 0.0. So it's the lowest it can go. But daily, if you get up, okay, look, look, I can only run one mile and it's gonna take me 20 minutes, 22 minutes. I'm gonna do it. And then I'm gonna do as many pushups as I can, which is 23, by the way. If I did a one mile run in 22 minutes and did 23 pushups, that would, I would get a 1.0 for the day. But this individual that's been on the couch living a sedentary lifestyle, if he does that, guess what? He's gonna get a high grade, he's gonna get a 4.8 for the day. So then he's leading himself in the right direction. So not only do you have to, this is one of the problems in it. And again, this is something I told Dave, I'm like, listen, a once a bi-annual twice a year, every six months, you're getting a grade. That doesn't help you. What you need to look at yourself every day. You need to look at yourself every day and say, did I truly live this way, live the way I should be living today? Yeah. And then those standards need to be clear. And then you need to apply them to your life. Yeah. I might even say, like, that example you just gave. So the guy who's sitting on the couch all the time, or whatever, or every day. And now he's doing, he's working out every day. But his physical fitness standard technically is still low. Still very low. Still better than being at a 1.0. Maybe another area of evaluation is like, you know, improvement or you know how you say, or back when you're young, you know, they give you that most improved kind of thing. Yeah. Maybe that could be part of it. I think it will be covered by the daily track, the daily track. Like, okay, you got a, you got a 4.0 today. What's your average right now? My average for the last, my running average for 30 days is I'm hitting a 3.9 physical fitness. That means I'm doing something every day. I'm pushing the envelope. I'm improving. Now, my overall score is moved from a 1 to a 1.2. Yeah. Because I'm in a little bit better shape, but it's still not where it needs to be. Yeah. That's good. That can crush some people, right? If someone goes to a 1.2, I'm never going to improve it sucks. It's been three months. No, guess what? Would you get today? Would you do today? Right. Same thing opposite, right? The opposite can happen where someone thinks, well, I did something, I did something today, so I'm good. Meant. No. Yeah. No. And the other collateral damages, I did good physical fitness today. So I'm going to take tomorrow off. Yeah. Or I'm going to eat, you know, a crappy meal. Yeah. I'm going to get that pizza together. Yeah. Right? We don't want that. Yeah. And when I say we, I mean me. Yeah. And that why is that? Because we've created this pliable standard in our head that we move around based on our little feelings. You. But this does this won't allow for it. Yeah. They need to keep yourself in check. Yeah. You need to keep yourself in check at all times. And the reason you need to keep yourself in check at all times, you need to impose discipline on your life because you will end up in a better situation that you will end up in a better situation. You'll end up with more freedom is where you're going to end up. You know, people, you talk about regret, right? Oh, you go talk to people when they're, when they're dying on their deathbed and they're going to regret things they didn't do. There's nothing I can imagine. They're going to regret more than when you look back at your life and you say, I didn't achieve what I could have achieved. Yeah. And there's only one way to maximize your achievement. And that's the daily discipline, daily discipline. And again, when we're talking about achievement, what are we talking about? I'm not just talking about I worked more than you. I made more money than you. I produced more, I sold more cars. And that's not what I'm talking about. I'm talking about what is your, what is your achievement? Yeah. What is that you're trying to do? I spent a bunch of time with my family and raised great kids. Okay, that's what you want to do. Put that on paper so you know what that looks like. Maybe there is a financial, there should be a financial aspect to it because you need to pay, you need to have a roof over your head. You need to be able to feed your kids. So you certainly should have a job, a vocation aspect to grading yourself. Are you doing what you should be doing at work? Because if you're working hard at work, guess what? You're going to get promoted eventually or you're going to find out, you're going to improve your skills to a point where you're, be more valuable and you can go find a different job somewhere else. So that's got to be in there. Because if what we allow ourselves to do is show up at work every day and just do what we need to do to get by, guess what? You're never leaving that job. You'll be doing that thing forever. So it's physical fitness. It's what you're eating, your fuel systems that you're putting into your body. It's the family, the effort. What are you doing to improve the skill sets of your children? What are you doing? Are you spending 20 minutes teaching them new vocabulary words so that they can articulate better so they can become a better leader when they get older? Are you doing that? Is that a big ask as a dad? As a mom? Are you doing it? Have you showed them how to escape a guillotine? Have you? Maybe you should. Because you can get caught in a guillotine. That's the street fight. Street fight guillotines are coming. So have you, does your kid know how to escape a guillotine in a street fight? How long will it take? You got to teach him today that takes 15 minutes but you got to drill it. You got to drill it every day until they kind of understand it. So what have you invested in your kids today? What's the minimum standard? Now you could think to yourself, well, you know, I got my kid an iPad for Christmas. That was an awesome gift. So I'm pretty much good to go as a dad, right? Does your kid care about that iPad compared to, or you fast forward three years where your kid's got an incredible vocabulary and can defend guillotines, right? So how much of you invested in your family? So these are the kind of things that we can set a moving goalpost where you can set a moving goalpost that says, hey, if you get your kid an iPad with some apps on it, you're a good dad. That's a moving goalpost. Hey, you should, hey, if you can get your kid an iPad and they can get some education, stuff, you feel pretty good about it. Cool. Good job. Is that a moving goalpost? Yes, it is. What they really need to know is have a better vocabulary. What they really need is interaction with you as a human being so that they can interact with other human beings in a more complete way. That's what we're doing. So you got your physical, you got your, okay, mental. What are you? How much have you read today? And I'm not talking about reading somebody's freaking Instagram post. It doesn't count. Get negative credit for that. You're getting dumber when you do that. So what are you doing? How many words did you learn today? And by the way, this is brain maintenance too. Because if you're not trying to learn new things, then your brain is deteriorating, just like your body will. So you got that aspect. What about your creative output? What have you done in that capacity? Did you write us, did you draw a picture? Did you write a story? Did you come up with a guitar riff that kind of rocks? Right? Did you? Because you may or may not have. My guess is you didn't. So what have you done that today? And by the way, if you think, oh, I took a cool picture for Instagram and I'm kind of giving myself artistic credit for output right there. No. No. So and then you start looking at all this stuff and you start adding it together. You're time that you invested in your work and your family and your friends and you're trying to teach your kids something and you're trying to read something. And all of a sudden you look and you say, well, I don't have much time. And then you look at yourself and say, wait a second, why did my time go today? What grade do I get today for time management? Yeah. That's a big one. Because did I spend time doing things that I got negative value, never mind break even, actually negative value. And we don't have a grading system. We don't know what we're aiming at. We don't know what the potential is because that's what's cool about this. You read these definitions, the high end, the outstanding, the eminently qualified marine. That is an unachievable human. Yeah. It's an unachievable marine. You will not be that good. You cannot hold all those categories. Let me tell you something that is no reason to not aspire to become the most eminently qualified human being that you can become. Just because it's an impossible path, just because it's a path with no end to it. Just because you'll never reach the top of the mountain ever, you will not. You cannot. Guess what? That is no reason to stop. Guess what? You're going to get tapped out. There's always going to be someone that can tap you out always, 100% of the time. The best guys in the world get tapped out. Buchecha, Hodger Gracie. Buchecha is the best guy in the world. What happens? He goes in ghee and loses. to Hodger Gracie, tapped out, submitted. Why is that? 'Cause somebody's always, and what happened to Roger Gracie? By the way, when he fought Tim Kennedy, he got beat down. So there's always, you're never gonna get to the top of the mountain, but that is not, that is not a reason to not, to stop climbing. Just because you're not gonna reach the top of the mountain doesn't mean you stop climbing. No, actually you climb harder. You see where you can get. But if you don't know what you're climbing, if you don't understand the mountain, if you can't see the summit, you don't know where to climb. And then you just look around and go, well, I might as well just slide down. 'Cause it takes physical and mental exertion to move up the mountain. And if I don't even know where the top is, I'm just gonna, I can't tell where I am. I can't tell from a halfway up the mountain, a quarter way up the mountain. I can't tell from close to the top, bottom to top, I can't tell. So there's enough reason for me, just to sit around and do nothing. Break out the donuts. No. The, okay, so the way you started this was with your Navy experience, as far as evaluations go. And it, okay, so this is essentially what it, what it kind of translated to me, what it was. And the Navy, the one that you were talking about was like everyone expected to get the high, the perfect score, right? And now we started with the standard. And then in the Marine Corps one, it's kind of the opposite. Well, no, the Navy one started off. When I first got in the Navy, basically everyone was a 4.0 and everything. Then they changed it because you need the force rank. And I don't know when the Marine Corps, or if they made that change, but they did, 'cause that's the way it is now. They're force ranked for sure. Yeah, okay, so the, and the point is, just the two different standards, like common standards, right? Where, you know, one, 'cause you get this in other places too, where it's like, oh, you know, it's just a, just here's your quarterly evaluation. And I just put force, you know, 'cause I don't have any complaints about you kind of thing. It doesn't necessarily reflect how dope you really are. It's just, I don't know how dope you could be. Yes, exactly right. So it's just more of like, okay, so the ceiling is pretty low, is what it is. By like a common like perception, as far as the standard goes. Then you have the opposite where it's like, oh, we all know, no one's gonna get a 5. Like we all just know that. So we're just kind of doing the best we can, kind of thing. And that way is better for obvious reasons, but at the end of the day, it's like, when you say, oh yeah, you can literally be, like you're topping out. 'Cause as you get better and better, it's harder to get better and better. You know, so if, but you won't even get to those upper levels, if that ceiling was so low and you're ripping fours all day, or all year, whatever. So man, I used to, I used to play this game Super Mario Brothers. You've heard of that. Super Mario Brothers. I have heard of it, but I've never, I've made a few suggestions. I don't think I've ever played one single second of that particular video game. All right, dang, bro. Okay. Halo one time for about three minutes with some of the guys that was in my sales cartoon. And then I just, I think this after. I thought it was a, they were really good at it. They murdered me a bunch of different ways. And then I said, well, this is stupid. It's a video game. I don't care who wants to go grapple. Yeah. Well, that part is, I would say that that's true, but the point still is consistent. So Super Mario Brothers, it's, okay, it's super Mario. There's a bunch of Mario brothers. This is what I'm super about. This one is called Super Mario Brothers. Okay. Original Nintendo Entertainment System. I don't want to say 19 or four. If I'm not mistaken. Old school. So Super Mario Brothers had four worlds, sorry, eight worlds, four levels, each world. So 32 levels. And you have an opportunity at various points in some levels to hit the warp, like the warp zone. So you go down a pipe and it skips like all these levels. Right. You could essentially get through the game in maybe like, I don't know, six or eight levels. Okay. If you warped, right. But if you chose not to warp, you would have to go through all 32 levels. So I used to be able to go through all 32 levels never dying one single time. Like I got really, really good at that. You're, for those of you that just listening and not seeing this on video, Echo looks super proud of that last statement. I mean, I was a little bit embarrassed for it, but it's cool. Anyway. There's two levels never dying to go Mario. Here's why that's, here's why that's significant, though, as far as Super Mario Brothers goes, because you can easily pass the game, save the princess by just warping. And it's still real hard, but you got, you know, you only go through a few levels, compared to if you go through all the levels voluntarily. Right. So once you save the princess by warping, it's like, cool, now you got to go through all the levels. But if you can do that without dying, that's like, that's super high level. Right. Mario Brothers goes. So it's basically so, what's your point? So go back to those two standards. Go back to the two standards. If you go for the standards, like, oh, yeah, everyone gets a kind of a 4.0 kind of thing. That's like passing the, passing the game by warping. It's true. Like, man, you pass the game. In one man, damn, that's good. That's good by any standard, really. You know, I can't complain about that, but you got to open up the standard a little bit more. Go through all 32 levels, then without dying. Then you do it as quick as you can kind of think. And if that standard kind of allows for all that, where you can't reach the top of the, like the standard isn't saving the princess. Standard is like something way greater, you see what I'm saying? So it allows you to get better and be evaluated on that, on that elevation while still not like capping out at a certain level, you see what I'm saying? So what you got to do? As far as the evaluation process goes. Okay, bro. Well, I'm telling you, I'm telling you, look to Super Mario, but there's this thing they discovered it was like a glitch in the game where you could like go to this one level and do this thing with a turtle shell and keep jumping on it and get like a thousand men. Which is kind of a step backwards in a way, but that's just a side note. (laughs) - Dang, okay. How much time have you spent playing video games? - Well, I imagine what you could have done with your life. - Yeah, well, keep in mind. - You could play guitar, you could have played, - Yeah. - You know, instruments could have mastered chess, you could have spoken another language. Instead, you're over here talking about how you did 32 levels. (laughs) - In one minute, by the way. - By the way, this is it. This is it, this is it, get you a really low grade. When I come up with the system, your grade is gonna be the low. - Yes, as far as achievement goes, yes, very low, but as far as an evaluation process. - Did all the people like it? - That people highly respect you. Did Jade Charles go to him, man? Did he kinda? - Yeah, sometimes. - There you go. - You get that, you finally got that respect you wanted from that Super Mario Bros. - Keep in mind, I was in fifth grade, by the way. So, you know, a little bit different. - Was that a humble brag? Like, I did 32 levels. - By the way, I was only in fifth grade. - No, I think it was more of an aging thing. Actually, that wasn't a brag at all, 'cause in fifth grade, - You could have been learning the language. - Yes, sir. - Yeah. - We're doing pull ups, we're actually was doing pull ups in fifth grade. - That's legit. - Yeah, big time. I thought. - Check. - Well, okay, here's the bottom line. We are looking to step up, we are looking to become better, truly better. So, what do you got for us? How can you help us get better? - Yeah, to stay on the path. So, and actually, that brings up a good point, 'cause we're on the path, quote unquote, right? - Oh yeah. - We, whatever all on the path and saying, we're even saying we're on the path straight up, saying it. But like, what is the path though? I mean, sure, there's some things. You know, we can go through it. Jiu-Jitsu, of course, is part of it, but you don't have any evaluation kind of standard, is what you say. So, yeah, I think that'll be how, actually I'm really looking forward to it. - Yeah. - To be honest with you. - Yeah. - Unless Jiu-Jitsu, yes, that's on the path. Here's, okay, so this will help us prep, then at the very least, prepare to be officially on the path and be evaluated at the same time. Get a key. - Yeah. - Right, step one, get a key. Step one, be, get a rash guard. So, where do we get our keys? We get our keys from origin. originmain.com, beskis, in the world, factually, actually the new Rift is at Al's. That's how it is at. - Yes, it is at. - Rift. - Rhee, this is like, when you put a Rift key on and then go back to your old key, like I said this before. - Yeah, it's a nice, it's a game. - This is a non-starter. - You're gonna be mad at your old key. You're gonna be trade your old key. - You're gonna wonder why anyone ever made a key like they used to make them. - Yeah. - But then again, then if you choose, you can revisit that video that Pete put out about how they did and all this stuff. He's like, "Oh, okay, that's why they didn't make it." Because what they went through to make it, - Yeah. - You know, not everyone's really good at it. - And as usual, we are standing on the shoulders of giants 'cause you always look at the way things have evolved and you have to take those iterative steps. No one just thinks of the iPhone. - Right. - Right, somebody had to make a bunch of other phones before that. - Yeah. - And then even consider iPhone right now, like what is the newest one? I don't know, X or something. - Tand. - Right. - The X is the Tand, you know, Roman nomos, I guess. I didn't know that at first. Anyway, the one in six years from now is gonna make this X, Tand one. - It is. - It'd be like, "Oh, that's old school." Like non-evolved meanderthal one. That's what it's gonna feel like. - That's what your old key will feel like. - Yes. - A non-evolved meanderthal key. - Yeah. - And then you put on the riff, you go, "Oh." - Yeah. - So yeah, you can get the keys, you can get the rash guards, you can get other clothing, you can also get supplements, which right now I am taking a ton of joint warfare, I heard many, which is not that bad. big of a deal. Because let's face it, I'm walking around, you know, we're going to be fine. It's not that big of a deal when people feel like, oh, no, what happened? Don't worry. Everything is fine. I did, however, up the joint warfare and continue the krill oil path. But the joint warfare, you can feel it in there. You can feel it like little micro nano robots in there repairing stuff. Now, you have to, you know, I know it happened with your bicep, but the last time I hurt my other knee, it was a disaster. And this one is already. So, anyway, get your joint warfare. I remember you, well, I mean, of course, I remember it because it was as recent as today where you're like, I'm like, well, for you, I feel so fast. But I'm like, yeah, well, I dig it. It's probably the joint warfare, but the joint warfare has something to do with it. But also, there's some, there's definitely, I definitely have been blessed with some sort of ability to heal up a little quicker. I don't know. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Knock on wood. That's what it seems like to me. Well, also we have milk, which is additional protein that happens to be delicious and tastes like a dessert straight up. So, it goes with that also where your kid mook, same deal. Just for the kids. Well, the same deal, but they have strawberry or your kid mook, which is literally the best tasting thing in the world. That has strawberry flavor because men is still my favorite. And we do have strawberry adult mook coming out. I teeny that and it is ridiculous. What is T and E testing evaluate? So I got the little package in the mail. Yeah. And it was so good. So yeah, you can get that. You know, also discipline and discipline go. So discipline, if you are going to train jujitsu or you're going to do something that's going to require physical output and at the same time, mental alertness. So that's, for me, it was always about, hey, pre mission because when you're on a mission, you have to be physically ready and you have to be mentally ready. You need both aspects. And so that's why we made discipline. So you're ready for those things. And then also we have discipline go, which is a, which is a capsule. And the reason I made this is because sometimes I'm going to speak or I'm going to work with a company or I'm going to be in a boardroom all day. I want to bring my A game. And I don't want to have to drink a whole beverage because I don't don't need it at that time. So I talked to Pete Brian. We took the, the elements from discipline, drink, put them into the capsule. So that way, if you need to bring your A game, you can get your discipline go. And that will get you across the board. And so we'll a little bit of Jocco white tea. Yeah. It's a good, the original, the original tea that Jocco was into. Yeah. Just kind of a white tea. It's, you know, at first, but now sort of a staple it's like synonymous, you know, Jocco white tea. Yeah. It's synonymous with good taste. It's synonymous with 8,000 pound deadlift. So there's that big time. Also, the tea is available at Jocco store because yes, Jocco has a store, which we already know, but that's a good place to visit to stay in the game to represent while you're in the game. So if you want to tea shirts, we got some lightweight hoodies rolling rocking and rolling. Very good, a lot of good evaluations on that one. No comment. Yeah, because you haven't put one on yet. Because you haven't given me one. Well, you know, let's face it, you kind of deserve that one. And it's also changing minds of people who originally were really signed up to the lightweight. Special forces over here. I like it. Sideops. You know what? Hey, the truth be told they came out really good. Just even like the fit, the design, the day that on the other night. Yes, there it is. One of them, there's two of this two. Okay. You can get truckers hats. Yep. Patches on there. Yeah. A bunch of other stuff. Yeah. A bunch of cool stuff. Yeah. If you want to go to jockelstore.com, if you want to represent while you're on the path, while you're being evaluated, that might even be one of the evaluation scenarios. What? You know, your uniform. Come on. Yeah, I guess if someone's just a complete slob, then maybe they do need to step it up. Yeah. Somebody. Yeah. Okay. Maybe uniform will be judged, but I doubt it. Well, okay. Well, don't be wearing a stinky ghee, though. Yeah. No. That's that's a uniform violation big time. Yes, sir. Oh, you didn't want to wash your ghee. So now we all have to suffer. Yeah. Yeah. You're going to get punished. What if don't do that? Hey, the, the rift key, the cool thing, you can wash with your normal clothes. Yeah. Because it's, and it dries. It's not, it's not like when you put a regular ghee in, and it's like you threw a 40 pound weight washing machine. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Cause it all bunches. That's all just like, yeah. And it takes nine hours to dry. Not the rift. The rift dries with your normal, like quick dry t-shirts just about. Yeah. Did you see the video Pete had when he's like going into the fibers, like he takes one fiber and he's like breaking it. It's hard to break. He puts the two and you can't even break it. The whole ghee is that. Yeah. Yeah. That's good, man. Real good. Also, subscribe to the podcast if you haven't already. That is for a black with a better term. It's important. It's something. It's not nothing like to subscribe versus if you didn't subscribe. Yeah. Don't forget about also the warrior kid podcast. So this is one where your kids can actually be educated. This is quality time with your kids. You sit there and listen to warrior kid podcasts. Is that a driving your car at your plane? Some lame music for them or you're having them listen to some dumb podcast. No. Have them listen to warrior kid podcast. They're going to learn from it. You're going to learn from it. Just check it out. It'll help. It will help your kids. I just got a text this morning from a buddy who said he had a, this is going into the book, but he had a nephew who had been through a rough time and 10 years old, got him a warrior kid book. Boom. Warrior kid. He's like, that book completely changed the trajectory of my nephew's life. And it doesn't get much better than that. But the warrior kid podcast has the same messages in a podcast format. So check that out. And also while you're there, you can check out some of that Irish oaks ranch dot com where we have a warrior kid that is making soap started a business making soap on his farm from goat milk. And that goat milk will help you stay clean. My daughter has a question for Uncle Jake. Oh, okay. We don't really send it to him. Yeah. Yeah. He's a good boy. You know, we'll get that sorted. Mike also YouTube. We have a YouTube channel. If you're interested in the video version of this podcast or see what Jocke looks like while he gives it to you straight. That's where you go. There's also some of echoes legit videos on there that he calls legit videos. He feels good about. He feels really good about him. And just like he feels good about going through 32 levels. Yeah. Kind of. Yeah. Sometimes you'll get psychological warfare. If you need a little, everyone that looks for an alarm, it says, Oh, really be great to have an alarm. Jocke will make an alarm. That's the alarm. Psychological warfare. It's on iTunes, Google Play, MP3 platforms. And not only will it wake you up in the morning, but if you're having a moment of weakness because you want to eat a doughnut, this will 100% effective. Stop you from eating a doughnut. Press play. Check it out. Also flip side canvases. My brother Dakota Meyer, you heard him on this podcast number one, 15. If you haven't listened to that podcast, just go listen to it. Give yourself about four hours because it's long and it's heavy. He's got a company where he's putting images onto various forms of canvas of nylon or what is it? Vinyl vinyl. And you can take these things. And that way, these are kind of things you can put up in your house where you look at it and you get that little extra message to go get some or that all your excuses are lies or that things are good or that discipline equals freedom. So check it out flipsidecanvice.com support my brother Dakota Meyer. Yeah, some really good stuff on there. Also, if you're looking to expand your your workout horizons, go to on it.com/jocco. They got some good workout gear on there. A lot of good info, a lot of good stuff on there overall. It's like to optimize your whole situation. But yeah, really good stuff on there on it.com/jocco. Some books. I just talked about way the warrior kid. That's a one. That's book one. The next book, same series called Mark's mission. And then there's the third book in the series, which is called way the warrior kid where there's a will. So that is now live for pre order at this time. If you want it, order it now. That way, I can print enough copies for everyone. That's called the big pre order that I used to make fun of my publisher. But guess who the publisher is now me. So I have to know how many to print. So if you want it, order it now. and it's gonna come out May 28th. So there you go. Also we have Mikey and the Dragons. This is a book to help kids figure out how to overcome fear. Sure, your kids could read some book where you could read some book to your little kid. That's about things that don't matter in the world or you could read them a book that helps them actually learn how to overcome their fears. That's Mikey and the Dragons. Great story, awesome art. - Very awesome art, yes. The Discipline Equals Freedom Field Manual. Give the gift of discipline. - You. - That's all there is to say. It's the book that's gonna show people that you, it's gonna show people the path. If you want that on audio form, then that's not on audible. It's on iTunes, Amazon, music, Google Play and other MP3 platforms. Then you got Extreme Ownership, which I wrote with my brother, Lafe Babin, where we took the leadership lessons we learned on the battlefield and explain how those can be applied to your business and life. And one of those lessons in that book is called the dichotomy leadership. The dichotomy of leadership seemed to be as we continue to work with businesses, companies, leaders around the world. We found that the biggest problem that they had was balancing the dichotomy of leadership. And when you can't balance the dichotomy of leadership, the multiple dichoties of leadership, when you can't balance them, they derail your whole team. So get Extreme Ownership and get yourself the dichotomy of leadership so that you can understand how to truly apply these things effectively. Ashelon Front, that's my leadership consultancy and what we do is solve problems through leadership. We have an outstanding team of outstanding guys, Lafe Babin, JP DeNel, Dave Burke, Mike Cochran, or sorry, Flynn Cochran, Mike Sirelli, Mike Baima and now Jason Gardner. If you need help at your company, with any problem, because every problem that you have in your business is a leadership problem. That's what we do. We solve problems through leadership. Ashelonfront.com. We have the mustard coming up. Chicago, 23rd and 24th. We haven't pulled the sold out switch yet, but we're going to, it's almost sold out September 19th and 20th. That's May 23rd and 24th in Chicago. September 19th and 20th in Denver. And then December 4th and 5th in Sydney. extremotership.com if you want to register, do it quickly because all of them are going to sell out. EF Online, this is for those of you that can't make it to a mustard or you can't bring your whole company to a mustard because it's expensive. That's why we made EF Online. This is online interactive leadership training. It's me and it's everyone on the Ashelonfront team, training leadership through technology. It's available direct to consumer. If you're just one person you want to get in the game or you got a company, you can get it through enterprise. But if you want to check it out, go to efonline.com. And of course, on top of that, we have EF Overwatch where we're taking leaders proven leaders from spec ops and from combat aviation, putting them placing them into companies in the civilian sector. Don't always hire someone based just because they have experience in a field. Actually hire them for their leadership capability because it is a lot easier to teach someone an industry than it is to teach someone leadership. So get yourself a qualified proven leader. Go to efonverwatch.com if that's what you need. And if you want to hang out with us a little bit more because you're just not satisfied with 500 hours of us on this podcast. Well, then we are on the inner webs. We are on Twitter, we are on Instagram. And of course, we are on that busy book. Boah. Echo is at Echo Charles and I am at Jocke Willink and thanks to all the people that make this podcast possible. And by that, I mean not some big corporate sponsor by that, I mean our police, our military, our law enforcement, our firefighters, paramedics, EMTs, dispatchers, correctional officers, board of patrol and yes, secret service. All you first responders, all you uniform your service and your sacrifice allow us to live, to live a life of liberty and the pursuit of happiness, which is what we're doing here. And everyone else out there, check yourself, evaluate yourself honestly, are you doing what you can do to be better? Are you working as hard as you can? And that just doesn't mean work as in your vocation or your job, are you working to be a better father or mother or daughter or son? Are you maximizing opportunities? And again, not just professional opportunities but opportunities to help someone, to teach someone, to coach someone, to make someone else better. Are you maximizing the opportunities to spend time with your family, to strengthen the relationships you have? Are you maximizing the opportunities to make the members of your family better? Are you every day doing everything you can to live the most eminently worthy life you can live, ask yourself those questions? And when you realize that you fall short, that we all fall short, when you realize that, then get yourself on the path to correct those short falls by going out there. And getting after it. And until next time, this is Echo and Jocco. Out.