(upbeat music) - Hi, and welcome to Crystal's Catch the Show where I answer your questions for advice and talk to the most interesting people in the world. My favorite Dr. Raquel Martin is back on the couch, you know, (speaks in foreign language) we are joined again by Dr. Martin, a real live PhD, okay, for real, for real, licensed clinical psychologist, professor, researcher, author, she's been on the show before to help me answer some of your letters. So I'm thrilled to have her back today to discuss boundaries, 'cause listen y'all, some of you are calling stuff boundaries and it's not boundaries, it might be a rule, it might be an expectation, it might be a threat, it's not a boundary. So today we're gonna talk about what boundaries really are, what it means to protect our peace and other therapy speak, and whether all of this language that we've been learning is actually helping us to have healthier relationships. So please welcome back to the couch, Dr. Raquel Martin, thank you so much for being here. - Thank you so much for having me. You know, I posted something ridiculous on Threads the other day, and someone commented, "Krystal warned me about you." (laughs) And I was like, I was like, "Don't take anything seriously," and they said, "Absolutely." It was something, and I was like, "Or, or, we could just stone everyone." Something crazy, 'cause I was just like, I feel like we crossed the line where y'all can't take a joke online, so all of this is. - Yeah. - Fuck crazy, I'm here for real, and this is the best place to talk crazy, so I do it daily. - I mean, it do be like that sometimes, and one of the things I appreciate you is that you take all this book learning and academic speak, and you know, years of research and study and all that, and then you are also still just very real. (laughs) And very much willing to be like, "I'll meet you very well, but don't play with me." - Yeah, I'm not a very, I feel like, I'm like the most un-series person I know when it's not necessary, you know? Like, if I don't have to be a real adult, I'm not gonna. - You know, I'm just so valid. (laughs) - It's like, I'm always like, yeah, you know what you, you know, it's rough out here, but it, what do you, they gotta end some day. - Yeah, I don't know what to do. - Yeah, yeah, yeah, I feel like I'm maybe like that sometimes, y'all. - You'd be like that, man, I mean, keep going, I don't know. - Right. - I don't know. - Like, you know what, that's my thing. - We gonna figure it out together or something. - We don't, we don't figure it out. - Right, so, you know, you're one of those, again, licensed clinical psychologists online who's making excellent content to help people out, educate them, et cetera. So let's just start with the basics. What's going on with the boundary thing? What is a boundary? What actually makes something a boundary? - A boundary is just something that guides your behavior. It's just a decision, you make about your behavior, what you're gonna do to protect your well-being. It gets confused a lot with rules, 'cause rules are like the attempt to dictate someone else's behavior. You can't do that, right? So, when I'm working with my patients on it, when you say I'm going to do this, it's typically a boundary or a standard, 'cause it's just like standards and boundaries there for you. And then when you're saying you need to do this or I would expect, of course, you to do this, it's more so along the lines of like rules and expectations. So, how are we say like with all the BS that you got to deal with, the boundaries and standards? Those are for us. - Yes. - With the rules and expectations. See, I can't even be appropriate in my acronyms. I'm like, if any kind of BS that you got to, oh, you got to do better with yourself. - Mm-hmm, that's rude though. - Read and introspect. I guess I'm boundary or a standard. But if it's like what you're trying to put on someone else or a hope of how someone should act, that's an expectation and when you're trying to dictate someone else is a rule, they get mixed up a lot, but a lot of people will give all these definitions. But it's a pretty simple thing. When you talk about therapy speaking, people will be saying all this stuff. And I'm like, I mean, I mean, as someone who went to school forever, I've never heard these things. I'd be learning stuff. Like, oh, is that what that means? - Right. - Crazy. - I've never heard that before. I learned a new definition for gas light and there's things that the other day I learned about suicide, which apparently black people still don't commit. - Oh, God. - I learned about so many things, hitting children, I learned that that's not the end of the world 'cause so many people turned out okay. It's really a vibe on the internet. - Okay. - Full of academic. - I was about to ask how we were getting all these different terms mixed up, but I think you just answered that question. - Ask the internet, 'cause people, you know what the problem is. The reason why I'm just like, a lot of times people want to just be when I have like black or white thinking and like over simplification. And the truth is that's just not how it works. Like the truth is there could be very many times when things feel overwhelming because it's too much stuff to deal with at that point in time and you have to sit there and deal with it. There's so many times where you think that you have control over different aspects and only person you have control over is yourself. - And that's exhausting and that's infuriating. I think people will struggle. A lot of people struggle with like, I was telling myself on this the other day and he said seven that everyone doesn't get what they deserve. Like we were talking about a pretty unfair situation. And I said there are bad people who don't get what they deserve and there are good people who don't get what they deserve. Honey, like all we can control is ourselves. And people really struggle with that. And when you go online and you have someone who says like if this person doesn't do this then they don't care about you. Or if this person does this, it's like the epitome of a good relationship and that black or white thinking there's just so much more comfort in that than the fact that everything is gray. And sometimes stuff sucks. And like, sometimes you know, one of the hardest things I always have to work with people on is like yeah, you can work on all this stuff on yourself. And that person that you said you weren't doing it for but you really were doing it for can still choose not to be around you. Like that's the world. So I just oversimplifications are comforting because you just feel like it's just easier that way. And black and white thinking is more comforting. But it's not real. Like it's not a thing. People will ask me for really straight answers. And I'm like, yeah, you can do all this and it can still go terribly wrong. - Yep. - 'Cause I mean, like the only thing you control is you. So the internet really thrives off of oversimplifications and things like that and stuff. I mean, I always say I'm an anomaly on the internet because you actually got to want to learn to be watching me. I mean, I don't mean doing no tricky stuff, man. I'm like, I don't just be talking. I really, you really have to want to learn 'cause I don't have ridiculously aesthetically pleasing stuff. I actually am in the field. So I have this stuff I'm talking about. It's pretty technical stuff. Front facing camera, edit on in shot on my phone. Captions that I get wrong. You know, like you really have to want to learn because honestly, algorithm-wise, my stuff is not really set up to do well. Like you click baby stuff and red pill stuff. That stuff is really set up to do well. And it gets more play and then people get that in their head because the more popular it is, the more you think it's real. - Yes. - I think people, maybe that's why I do well too, 'cause I'll be like, oh, it feels like it sucks because it sucks, bro. What's the question? - You know what I'm saying? - I don't even know how you're not vertical right now. Like just laying down like, it's just just what it is. - Yes. - And a lot of people really, really do thrive from your lack of critical thinking. Like there's a reason why that idiot said that he can't stand smart people. Because. (laughs) - Like the smart people see right through this, yeah. - Yeah, you're so much harder to manipulate. Like when people are like, it's either this or this. A smart person will be like, I don't think that's how people work. - Yeah, all right. - You know, like that's who challenges it. So people over simplifications are comforting. I get it, y'all. But like also, I don't want to say, get over it, but like. - Right. Well, I think people are also looking for safety and you can hear some little phrase like that and think that it's going to protect you from being hurt or mistreated or something like that. And that is also not the case. Like that is a misconception. You're setting yourself up to be hurt. But don't you also think that like some of this conversation around boundaries especially is coming up online so much because more and more people in real life are enacting boundaries with the people around them. And everybody is not taking it well. Everybody is not doing well with boundaries. And some people are losing it. - They are because it's also like there comes a line, right? Like I have work with patients who have told me like, I'm controlling my behavior. This is a boundary. And then I flip it and I'm like, that sounds like a wall. And they like, no, the freaking dog. I definitely definitely told me, you told me last. And I just be like, I mean, let me say it's the first of all, I can tell you a thing. - First of all, I didn't do that. But they'll just be like, no, no, Dr. Martin, no. - You said, if a guy's my behavior is a boundary, I'm like, right. And the purpose of a boundary is like to. - This is like to guide your behavior and maintain relationships. - Yes. - You're doing like, that's all enough to make it like it's very natural. - You're swinging in the other direction where you're not letting nobody in this bitch. - Yes. - Right. - People they be like, I'm protected my peace. And I'm like, I mean, like when you mention the safety and the fear, I think it's, life is scary. Like it's, I think that's why a lot of people they'll just be like, oh, nuance. It's too much nuance and stuff like that. But being a psychologist, it's kind of like a occupational hazard. I think one of the reasons why my threshold is so high in addition to being from Philly is just being like, I mean, there's so many moments where I'm like, yeah, that's all for all. We just kind of have to deal with the impact of that and understanding that the
safety thing is not many of us have. Safety, I'm like a dark skinned black woman would afro who like challenges people openly. I think that my safety reveal here. I'm a mom, I feel like boy, unless they tell me otherwise, and a black girl unless she tells me otherwise, that's not a lot of safety. Like it's very scary. So I do think just like you mentioned, people take comfort in that. But when it comes to that, I feel like there's this aspect of a lot of people have gotten to a place where they can't really tell the difference between or the range between like discomfort and something in danger with something. And they're over correcting. And in that over correcting, that's when like the boundaries become walls. And that's when protecting your peace. It's like I'm not gonna have this conversation 'cause my boundary is I don't stay in places where I'm just I'm disrespected. And it's like, well, totally understand that as a boundary, but there's only so many times where you're gonna avoid something because as soon as you avoid it and your stress decreases, your body sees that as I'm safe. - Right. - But it's also important to understand that your threshold is gonna seem to you to go down. So in addition to all the amazing terms, because like also as a psychologist, we use the DSM, as you know, and that book is BS. And one thing I got told that I was like a very, I was in training, like I thought about diagnoses is very modern 'cause I was just like, I mean, I'm all about like the symptom acknowledgement and reduction, but this book, y'all giving me I'll really fool her for real, bro. And they're just like, that's not how it works. And I'm like, we'll see, 'cause you know, it's more so about acknowledging the symptoms, but a lot of people just, they're discomfort, they're range of being able to deal with things, just significantly decreases it. And they do it under the guise of mental health and well-being. And I try to tell them like, in this scenario, let's talk about the signs where you're uncomfortable, where you're actually in physical danger, or where was the conflict concerning for you. Like how is this gonna impact your relationship? A lot of times we have over corrected. We're using the terms, and even if we use them right, it's like, so what's the ultimate goal? Do you never wanna be able to have conflict in a healthy way? Do you never wanna be able to approach a difficult conversation? Like protecting your peace by not addressing someone because they disagreed with you. That's absurd, right? So like I do think there's many times when we have over corrected. And it's someone who's pretty direct. I would just be like, I mean, one of the things I say often is this seems excessive, okay? Like I feel as though we can address this. And I think for a lot of people, especially people of African and Caribbean descent, it's very hard to create something you haven't seen up close. And a lot of us haven't seen conflict manage in a healthy way up close. So removing ourselves from that our body sees that is safety and then our threshold to deal with stuff goes down and down and down and down. And it just, it's like a struggle. People are enacting boundaries. Most of my analogies are pretty violent. But I say like a boundaries being like somebody who respond like, hey, I'm gonna, every time you try to punch me in the face, I'm actually gonna move my body 'cause I look before you stop punching me in the face. And the person is like, well, my fist really likes your face. So now you gonna tell me that I can't punch you in the face. You just gonna move out the way. Yeah. If I just can't punch, you're my favorite face to punch. And you just like, yeah, I don't enjoy it. So in order to protect my well being. Yes. As soon as you've cocked back, I'm moving around. Right. This is hurting me. Actively harming me. Yes. And then the response is, so now you just can't punch people in the face no more. I believe this. You know, like, it's really like, and I'd be completely serious too. Give me some and I'll just be like, yeah. Girl, that's what we saying. You can't just. I think, I guess I, I am saying that because once again, into the ER twice this week and I don't have insurance, I'd really appreciate it if you, you know, like even addressing like, I'd appreciate it if you stop. And they're like, I'm not gonna stop. Well, then I'm gonna move out the way. Right. Oh. Oh. It's like, yes. And we're gonna be a little struggle with it have benefited from you having no boundaries at all. Yes. And they expect you to go along with it because they went along with it. And so how dare you break the cycle? Who do you think you are, girl? You too big for your bridges. You smelling all shit? The generational aspect of that, the number of times it comes up in families. Yeah. And those are the ships of like, oh, well, you dealt with, I dealt with this so you have to deal with it and not acknowledging that like, although it may have been a harder choice for you to make at that time, but no one else was doing it. You still possibly had a choice and even acknowledging, I'm sorry that that was your reality, but I'm letting you know that it's not gonna be mine. It's tough for a lot of people. A lot of times when I'm dealing with people and they're dealing with relationships and older individuals and people are saying, what you can't do, my automatic thought. And this is the occupational hazard being a psychologist. Like, I really gotta work to be a jerk because there's so many times. And sometimes you really do just wanna be a hold of people. And I used to do it. Oh my God. Yes. And then I got trained in all this crap. And now I'm like, it's not crap. But now I can't be a jerk because I'm like, even if someone is like struggling with stuff and they're being rude, who told you you could do that? My first thought is, man, I wonder who was the first person who told you that you couldn't. And now you don't even see that you've become that person. Instead of just cussing them out, like I can't. That's why anytime I talk to somebody crazy a lot, I'm like, you really are like this is really hard for me to do this now. Because I do better. I do better. So it's very hard for me to be, 'cause I'll just be like, you took me there. Man, I bet you this person is really hurting. So something like once you realize most people on the internet are stupid, you really, it really helps you. And then I said, yeah, and that they're hurting. I'm like, dang it. But a lot of people are hurting. These damn psychologists, they are, though. They are. A lot of people are miserable. Like, you know, just like, my life is actually pretty great. Okay, see, now I'm talking about in a real way, people are struggling. They got all of this unaddressed, unacknowledged trauma. And Dr. Kell's like, y'all are just mad. You know what I mean, but you're right. They are, they are mad and that comes from a very specific place. It does, like it's very, but I will also say, I built this brick by brick. I got two little happy little babies. Yeah, I should like my husband, which rare. I'm mad. But really do not relate. Right, like a lot of people don't, because most of the time, I'll just be like, I mean, I'm gonna go play with my babies. They didn't make out with my husband. I ain't doing it. Yeah, I don't really have to do this. I don't have to do this. Right, I don't have to do this so I won't. But yeah, the combination of people walking around with unhealed trauma and mental health issues. And, you know, the chemo stage is stupid. I'll say illiterate. Most people don't read at a high school level. Yeah, and that's the goal, too, though. That's the, but Chris, well, that's the goal, though. People don't realize, like, this is the goal, because people don't know what they're talking about. And it just, it's just very, and then they learn a new word. And then we're just like, you know, every boundary rules standard, and then people will be like nuance and all this other stuff. And I'm like, right. And yeah, and then all of a sudden, everybody's toxic, everybody's a narcissist. No one's getting lied to everybody's being gaslighted. Yes, I will say one of the things I do struggle with, and you talk about this often is anytime I'll mention, like, I'll do my videos for something. People will say, well, one, that's not true. I did a video on like a safety planning and suicidal ideation. And someone was like, yeah, but that's not true. Like clinicians don't do that. And I'm like, I'm a, I'm a psychologist. And I do this, and I train people on how to do this. But the biggest thing is I hear a lot about like, some really bad clinicians out there, bro. And I try to tell people, you know, clinicians are people and people be racist and some people are terrible. We say like having a license doesn't mean you can't harm and not having one doesn't mean you can't heal. Thank you. You got to admit everybody. You got to fit everybody. So I think the thing that scares me is just hearing all this awful stuff about, yeah, I'm like, well, I have to people lying. 'Cause I don't think you're there if it's told you I have to stuff you sit. But, or she didn't say it like that. Or it was so specific to your very specific situation. Like it's almost always some other context here. And y'all just getting online, you know, spouting out whatever on Instagram, child. Yes, but it's also like some clinicians aren't serving people the way they should be. A lot of clinicians are also burnt out as humans. Some clinicians don't do the best with their own boundaries. Yes, I'm a therapist saying I feel bad. Does anyone else feel bad when they have to cancel sessions due to their well-being? And I said, I feel bad almost every time. Almost every time I've had to do it. Yeah. And I have to talk to myself about like this person is paying to work with me. And they deserve my best abilities. And there's no way I can do it while tired. And I'm a psychologist. And I said, I struggle with it like every other time. I'm like, I tell myself, oh, you just great. Great, now they're gonna have a mental breakdown. They ain't even gonna be able to get their meth of fina day. Like, you started this. You know, and just, I don't think I'm a psychologist too. But I think it's also, these things are hard. And I think sometimes people think things are gonna be easier like the oversimplifications and stuff like that. But they're pretty difficult. We spend so many years building this. Black women in particular, we're very much taught that we shouldn't have sovereignty over our minds and our bodies. So setting up what we think our boundaries should be and our standards should be about what do I require from
people around me. Why that's a standard or what am I going to do to protect my well-being? That's a boundary and people will act like it's simple to even enact them without even acknowledging how much goes into making us feel as though our bodies aren't ours. How much goes into policing us that you can't even start with like doing the boundary or the standard or anything like that. You have to start with feeling comfortable with saying like this is my body and this is what I need incessing out the people who kind of think that they should have control over it. So especially with black people, it's never going to be as simple as that because we we're in a world that sees our bodies as like machines and humanizes us so when it doesn't we'll feel guilty about that we've never really been we work on it but I think a lot of people think the first stop is the words but the first start is actually just acknowledging that you deserve this is your body you're not a machine you're more than productivity and stuff like that and you're you're you're deserving of that. I mean I have to work on that before I even say like you know when people come in this is my boundary well wait let's just talk historically about why this is going to be tough right um let's try to look at the things around you that's going to make it a little bit of our tough and how do we work on that before we even try to enact more things and I don't yes I think that gets addressed a lot I don't think a lot of clinicians get trained in that level of culture humility I think a lot of people try to generalize and so this last time I was here but I'm not a general clinician like I specialize in black health and well-being and that doesn't mean my stuff won't be helpful for other people but that means you need to always know I always say like that doesn't mean you can't be in the room but you need to always know who's going to be on stage and at the spotlight right that's going to be people who African-American descent and their issues are just very different so more people need to talk about like the the the the things that try to take our sovereignty from our bodies and it's the same thing with our minds and why it's so hard to do it and why there's that ease of just thinking if I do one thing I'm a and they don't acknowledge it or they don't do it right then that's on them you know it's hard okay it feels tough because it is tough like wish you wish you think this you took like 22-3 decades to build this this and you expect to give me six weeks 50 minutes every every week for six weeks to break it down how dare you no this is a lifetime of conditioning but is it like time of conditioning and the people who are still conditioning around it yes and you're still in it and you're still in it right you're not even a way from the place that or the people that gave you the most harm so yes you trying to heal while you still in the in the mess that can be very taxing and challenging but that is where boundaries can come in and can be very useful um but we need to be clear about like why we're having them and you know that we don't want to go so far that we let people walk all over ourselves we also don't want to go so far that we don't let anybody in yeah so we got to find somewhere in the middle that's a safe sweet spot but also what can we do about like realistic consequences to a violation of the boundary like a boundary isn't an attempt to maintain a relationship to stay in relationship with somebody who is doing something that hurts you and so when they almost inevitably will fuck up because they're human yeah how do we look at like what can we realistically do like everybody is not in a position to say well I'm just not going to talk to you no more like some of you are dependent on your abusers yeah so so what then and I think that's actually more realistic I think one of the things I struggle with is um you know when it comes to people who look like us we're a community oriented people yes we're like a collective oriented people I always state that like therapy doesn't have a monopoly on healing whatever path you take is going to be paved with community and I'll see this messaging about like um you know automatically cut this person off or don't talk to this person and I say this joke every single time it's like well just don't talk to that toxic person this is my child you know like what what do you not you try to have boundaries with your kids yeah that's what maybe like toxic people and I'm like my seven year old I don't know what's more toxic than waking me up before I am asking for waffles I don't know what's more toxic than somebody coming at me telling me what to do and they still need help wiping a butt I don't know what's more bad don't apply to kids she said it's gonna part of the way they frame it yeah get rid of that toxic person it's like right well you know I do not have to pick them up from it I actually cannot do that and this is my legal dependent yeah and people think it's extreme but I'm like that's kind of what it is um whenever individuals violate their boundaries and once again they're always gonna be your violations because of boundary got your behavior um I tell us to because ultimately when it comes to therapy and psychology and all of this mental health care the goal is to kind of be not kind of to be an expert on you like I always say you have to be the inspector gadget of you that's that reference has very much timed out with my stupid oh they probably don't even know who that is no they don't know I used to say Colombo 8 dotted at I'm also like a very old person in my brain okay hold on you lost me with Colombo for real I don't know what that is you don't know what Colombo is it's like Perry Mason what kind of an American crime drama television series I've never heard of this sorry I've never heard of Colombo okay I was started in the 60s but it didn't until 2003 did they bring it back well this aired for a long time okay my bad and everybody else in the room is leaving me like wow who is this girl so it's clearly me it's clearly me girl I was sheltered my bed so Colombo we're here inspector gadgets I don't know inspector gadget I don't know what the turn I don't know what the term for them is going to be like I don't know I don't know maybe yeah but then we'll get on we'll get on a rant about the fed so I try to keep my reference right the goal is to have expertise in you so when we're thinking about times when you violate your own boundaries is going to be you I talk about like what we need to look into because there's so many things that can contribute to that your relationship with the person for the longest like the people closest to me or the people that I typically violated my boundaries for it is very easy for me to say I told you don't I told you I don't answer the phone after five and like someone that I don't even really know like that and I just be like you know yeah I didn't answer the phone because I told you don't do that yeah it's like a full-time job it's like hey I'm in school this is a part-time job I can I can get a job paying eight dollars an hour in tension so don't call me on my day off or I'm gonna just leave right versus that full-time job you get benefit right you know like they do in your loan repayment like it's easy it's easy it's harder to be like oh well I'd appreciate it if you just didn't you didn't expect the email reply at five because you got more invested right and that's understandable yes so I'm like so when we take when we tear it apart when you violate your boundaries for someone and we very much prepare for this it's like when you send the goals and I tell people what like okay we have the goal and let's prepare for when we kind of just don't meet the goal and it's not because I don't believe you but it's because it's normal and I find that by planning for it doesn't make it so much of like a gut punch because it's like oh we talked about this so I know how to get back on track so one thing is the relationship with the person and the buy-in another thing is like how do you feel overall like um if you're trying to have like a social boundary and I'm I've been focusing on social boundaries a lot lately because a lot of people don't have them and a lot of times I've seen these scenarios where people will talk about like the degrading of their relationship and they were they contributed to the degrading of the relationship that one do all these things and they didn't mention it because they thought they was being you know and they could violate their own boundaries and then it took that one time the last time and then they get into argument and they bring up time one two three four five six seven and I'm like I know you came in here in session and you thought I was going to say that method served everything but my question was how do we get to time two you went to seven you know like and then if you kept behaving in that way and you kept allowing them to do that why would they think there was a problem like with so like you came in here you expected me to say that huh I'm gonna be like well I'm gonna be honest you're both you're both here I don't know I'm so sorry I love that because it's an important part of the healing journey that yeah I don't know we really talk about enough is like when you are faced with the reality that it was your own shit that that caused you to accept all of this bullshit behavior from people for years oh my god you like oh damn somebody who's secure and healthy and emotionally mature would have left these niggas the first three at flag wow okay okay something that you've been working on and you thought you knocked out because from childhood that stuff come back and you like again like are you kidding me like this is the same like that's it's just annoying and it's right it's like I thought I thought I I thought I beat this monster I thought I um it's like one of your episodes with we give her recently the question was a good question I was like what was the hardest boss for you to beat oh the video game yeah and I was just like the first thing I said once again as a nerd I said Accountability for me. I don't think video games that much
ability dragon. But like it comes back up so like I'll say address the relationship. I'll also address like acknowledging you know how many times you violate your own boundary. I'll also address like how you're feeling in the moment because sometimes it very much is easier to just deal with the BS in that moment. Yes. Then have to like handle the discomfort of the conflict and the conversation and the aftermath. I always talk about how my community is like so important to me and someone at one point we're doing an interview and they said oh you're so lucky. And I was like well no it's not like as I built this brick by brick. Okay. Uncomfortable conversation. This was intentional as hell baby. When I was wrong. Yeah. Every like you know addressing it and trying to rebuild when we have to come back from something like I we built this. Right. This had to be very intentional. We've had uncomfortable conversations. We've taken breaks. We've built a relationship by remembering to check in with people and stuff like there's no community just happens. Right. Right. So people say lucky. I'm like no. Now we the number of times we've had to have heart to heart after vacations together like. Oh yeah. Yeah. Vacations are not mandatory. Okay. So the budget restrictions you're giving it's not going to happen with me. I'm not sharing a room. You want complaining about it's too cold in here. I'm not doing that sister. I will see y'all in the morning. You know but having those conversations. So I also tell people to look at I'm the repetitive nature of it. I also tell people to look at if you're avoiding the discomfort. I also tell people to look at whether the boundary is appropriate because sometimes they you know it could be a boundary but it can be unrealistic like if I start something new and I'm like okay my boundary is I am never going to I don't know uh respond to a email after 5 p.m. ever and you have like you have deadlines when stuff is like restricted. Right. So sometimes that they're just too restrictive and you have to address that. Sometimes they just evolve over time something that was appropriate at one time wasn't is it going to be appropriate in this point in time. I have very big boundaries around assignments and tasks for myself now. When I was in my doctoral program treated myself terribly like there were very little boundaries. It was also very hard to maintain them because nobody else around me kept them. I was like one of the few like like it was just and I knew that there was a clock on it but it was it was some of the worst mental health I've ever had in my life while not having the boundaries. It was some of the worst stuff I had in my life which is why I try to talk to students a lot about like we understand there's a time clock on it but it's awful like it's it's it's it's very very difficult. So even thinking about whether they evolve and I also think the internet may come into play here too. A lot of people will hear other than visuals boundaries and will be like that's for me. That's the one I need to have. Okay. And it's not always appropriate for them in their you know their lifestyle so the same way your mental health as a fingerprint certain things sound good. But you didn't really take the time to cultivate and think about whether that actually works for you in your life like the automatic cutting someone off. I'm someone who most of the people I work with cannot just leave a job or cut someone off or stop talking to someone. So we talk about like every way to lesson the amount of time spent with these individuals is there a way to you have to go to something have a buffer with you like real tangible things is it a way to this may set you back a little bit but like do you have to be on that extra committee like you're talking about this could be the the difference between me and this promotion and I'm like this could be the difference between you and psychosis or which one. Right. You in a grippy sock vacation girl. Yeah. So I always try to tell people like you can't always cut people off like you may live with this person is person's pain but can we lesson that impact by having a buffer or can we think about our exit strategy because I actually have found that like even just knowing that my program was only like six or seven years it sounds crazy but counting down from thousands and 1500 days is better than not having an end strategy at all. Damn. Yeah. But thinking about that and just being more realistic about what it looks like like you use your boundaries when you're ready to act and not just talk about them Yes. Maybe you also put them into quickly like maybe not ready. Yeah. Maybe you're just not ready. Right. Like yes, you need to use boundaries because you're trying to protect your time and your energy and your emotions and your values but have you even really thought about the ones that you're trying to prioritize right now because the thing is I can't really there are certain things that can prioritize at different points in life but they're not always the same. When I was in school all I cared about was working out and doing schoolwork. That's gay. Yeah. I was already broke. I was in school forever so I was already broke like that's why I went straight through because my mom was like I mean you ain't have no money you've never had money at this point so like what's the point of because if you take them you used to be in broke right I'm used to being broke. You take a break you get a real job for a little bit you get a little taste of money don't do it to go back right I've been broke forever um so that was nothing uh like always a nerd so learning more was never like it's just there was a comfort to that now as an adult I mean if it's just between sleep and working out for a certain day I'm like I'm gonna I'm gonna work out that I'm going a bit you know like or even with priorities with you know publications used to be the primary thing this is different to me like applying for another publication and possibly like watching my babies tear up my house I genuinely do what I enjoy watching them tear up my house because of the aspect of black women not being able to rear their children so I people think I'm joking but I really do like watching them just like run through the house acting like nuts yeah but younger me look at older me being like there's a grant from NIH that's due next week what the freak are you doing I'm watching my kids run around I'm watching my kids run around you know like so it's also the fact that they evolve and a lot of times people try to put a lot of things in the first place but I always say like it's very hard boundaries allowing with values and your people around you should align with values but it's very hard to keep up values that you don't know what they are yeah it's very hard to keep values where the people around you don't really sustain them even with taking advice from people I always say like before you take advice from someone make sure you guys say the same morals or values yeah I remember having a conversation with someone and they had just met me and they kept trying to push something on me and it's one of the times where I was just like a little a little rude and I said I don't know enough about you your ethics or your values to take advice from you so please don't say that no more so I'm just gonna because I accept multiple times like you tried doing cute yeah I really tried to be polite and it's just like I don't I don't know you like I don't know enough about your values your expertise or anything to take advice from me please stop yeah and it was not that happy yet I'm just sitting there like I'm just trying to do right I'm a Sean show bro this is a fun tutorial event honey please fun tutorial you know like you know how to be like oh have fun but if you don't show up you're fine right you know like you won't get promoted if you don't hang out with us but do it on your hand we're not a team player okay so like you know what I'm just like so I tell people when they're thinking about boundaries and they're thinking about all these things I ask them also when's the last time you looked into what your values are and then if they're the same than what they were before yeah reason why it's kind of hard to maintain is because it's not something that is as important to you as the person around you and things of that nature because for example you know if people talk a lot about burnout and they talk a lot of in boundaries to build resentment which can lead to like burnout and exhaustion and people talk about that a lot but I always say like burnout isn't just about like work it's not just about the level of hours that you're working and stuff like that but you could be working 10 hours a week but you're working in an environment that really doesn't align with who you are and things that you hold substantially dear and it's going to feel like you're there for like 20,000 hours right I could work two hours a month with with somebody who supports MAGA and I will probably feel like I want to rip my face off or like I wouldn't be able to make nightmare scenario yeah like it's just two you just got to work two hours a week with this person and every like it would just be harder to get up man I would wake up they get about sleep walking through mud and I would have to and I would be sitting here like it's only two hours why can't I do this and it's like oh because this is a terrible you know like so it's also like the values piece of do you also do you believe in what you're trying to stick to and when we're talking about values and stuff like that it's another thing where people don't get to investigate them like people don't get to know themselves well enough to know like not who you are in terms of in relation to other people right one of my activities is always tell me who you are but you can't tell me your connection to any other person no job no you know mother or father like who were you when you're most comfortable when do you feel the most creative what's the last thing that made you belly laugh you know stuff like that like real value it's really hard to stick with those if you don't know them if you haven't looked at the way that they've evolved so when it comes to boundaries and rules and circumstances and expectations I always say they also go hand in hand with values and like what you actually want to live according to and a lot of times people are it's not just about the work it's the fact that you're actually living a life that doesn't align with your soul like your spirit you don't care nothing about this and that's you know that you don't care nothing about this but like you know maybe it's a good job yeah it makes You can't think of an exit strategy and that's why community is helpful because if it's one thing
community can do can be like listen all right let's figure this out let's figure this out let's figure this out yeah okay do we need to rob somebody and maybe it's not always at a screen but the way you wish straight to felonies and misdemeanors that's why Chris I told you like let me say something everybody needs somebody like me because let me say I'm a critical thinker and I'm gonna figure it out you know what I'm saying my mom always says I got jail money and bail money and it's gotta be home on dinner time okay that's the woman who raised me word that's the devil you get it honest you get it honest show up with your friends man I mean I got to be home because dinner is at six right but what we gotta do like I feel like we can get this done by six given tasks and stuff delegations important yeah delegation maybe work maybe we're maybe we're it's a it's a it's a metaphorical robbing of negative values maybe there we go I like that doc listen I like that he needs to happen I do also say like you know some some some of the reason why we got all these mental health issues because not enough people been told about them say like people walking around oh god and you engage with them and I'm like oh no one's ever talked to you the way yeah somebody's ever beat your ass I could tell yeah I mean verbally and you're overdue right and you're overdue let me tell you something you know everybody anyone who's lost a fight you learn how to read a room quick you do and you figure out when to shut the hell up when to I mean and if growing up it really taught me anything I'd be like no can't win I'm gonna read my book listen let me tell you so I've never lost a fight because I don't try it with holes that I know could be my yes I'm gonna hear you over here snapping this person smiling at you oh no I'm going I'm actually going to class bye guys no interest here honey even now people we talk to be crazy I'm like I can lose my license yeah I'm gonna lie off I'm gonna walk you on believing a carceral system like that because I don't even I'm like I'm not even gonna call nobody you a good believe in that but I'm gonna I'm gonna head out before I step outside of myself yeah I'm gonna lose my license right you know so I'm gonna I'm gonna go because I gotta take care of these kids people don't know man you can lose you can lose your license for a lot of like things like they be willing to yank that back quick okay let people take you out right you can not let people take you out of yourself because you work too hard for that license I feel like that's crazy I know I'm all of those things yeah I'm gonna head out like it you're tied your hair back I I'm not gonna do but you I wish you wish you the worst okay goodbye love you that's so room so so then what does it look like to communicate a healthy boundary like let's say you and I are roommates in college we live in the dorms and we didn't know each other before college and this is our first semester and you are such a good student and I am acting like I have never been aware I'm out all night I come back whenever I feel like it I leave the room unlocked I let boys and girls and whoever else come over I'm leaving pizza on the bed I'm leaving the bathroom a mess how do you have a conversation with me about a healthy a healthy boundary regarding our shared living space your face it's honestly it's giving me flashback yeah so I'm honestly just thinking of my sweet mate yeah yeah undergrad for sure wow man like I so what do you do about your messiest roommate who don't give a damn about you know social norms not even just social norms and like this is also like a very Philly thing stuff like that makes me feel like you trying to put my life in danger and damn I thought you was gonna say you ain't got no home training you said my life in danger like you just you just gonna let somebody roll up on me yeah and I don't know these people right you got strangers here when people ask like why are you so direct I don't know if it's like college or a Philly thing but like we we're really we a lot of stuff is very much like all they try they try and get you for real like we do think we can play probably more times than it's actually okay yeah okay but like that scenario be like oh so you don't care about my life on you trying to put me you trying to put me in danger like you know inviting some random people yeah this is actually a scenario where I boundaries and possibly rules and you possibly become in the ops actually okay yeah okay you're right because this is like campus housing yeah we can we go to you yeah because even with somebody always ask me in relationships when is a rule the most like when is a rule appropriate and I was just like oh don't put your hands on me do not put your hands on me okay like because no healthy relationship has violence in it in the first place so whenever I say like oh no the different dream boundaries and rules it's not because one is going to be inherently better than the other it's just because you're not a guy to think about where your energy is going is your energy going and working on yourself which you can what you can control or somebody else which you can attempt to control but then you also probably got out of the things in place so like in that scenario boundary the conversation what to protect my time and energy I would have a conversation about hey I actually go to sleep at like 10 or something like that like what's the reason for you to go to sleep and you're like that super late okay well here's the thing I'm so I'm still gonna go to bed at this time um I can't control what you do right however like if the if the light is off on my side if the light is off on my side right turn on like a little consideration like because if you do turn it on I'm gonna turn it off and then I'm gonna be chose and then we might have a problem because this is also pre-licensed okay so like you also like don't don't touch my stuff okay god I don't never forget this also like if I'm if you coming in late it's like two three in the morning you got to you got to shower and you get your showers and stuff maybe leave your stuff out so you don't have to open your loud closet okay yes less problems off together right all right but like I'm letting you know people will say like know as a complete sentence but I actually don't mind like given I also like to seeing how the relationship is with the person to explain like this this this and this right but then also like we're in a room together so we do need to have rules right you don't want me walking around here in your drawers that's probably an appropriate rule okay let's think of some other rules yeah yeah that I think we should both abide by because maybe you also think like well if it's if it's money through the Friday the Thursday of course like I'm not coming in at midnight but if it's like Friday Saturday and Sunday cool right talk about the rules and then if something happens we're like we're not abiding by the rules we're probably gonna have to have a difference in here right I'm applied to be in a different room yeah you and honestly know all my students I'm gonna make this I'm gonna make this environment terrible like like and then when they come to me with that I'm like well what does she expect because you had a conversation please please you know like you tried everything you know like I and this didn't work like if you're if you're dealing with this is understandable like you want to talk about what it is but I would have boundaries and rules in that scenario and then probably actually trying to stay with somebody else or doing what most people do when they end up just count down a day to lay and got to be with this half lose right in the room or something like that um but I would have rules there too like because once you're dealing with someone else you do have to have rules like because like you touched my applesauce because you came from somewhere where you got a bunch of siblings grow I don't know you do you know this I don't have any more cafeteria bucks so it's not a boundary for you tonight if you eat my applesauce I'm gonna beat your ass is that a boundary a boundary would be no that's a that's a threat that's a threat no that's a threat you right that's like a natural consequence now and this is why like it's very good that my husband is in my opinion like a pretty you know even keeled typical like Southern man because we didn't we didn't grow up with the same rules right personally like to me he also believes that you know there's this thing going around like stop telling your children if they hate someone to hit them back and both me but we both like um we I will not we telling kids not to hit back no not me they just told us not to start it but we could absolutely finish it my mom's thing was always don't start it my parents don't start it and if you like sticking up with your siblings you ain't going to have no problem with me right because I've never had a problem getting in trouble in school right I mean I never really cared about the school rules I cared about my mom yes yes absolutely neither one of y'all have anything right my parents y'all don't have what y'all gonna do detention oh no no so I was like a boundary is I do this to protect my time and my energy and emotion so like oh you keep taking my food I like my food up you can't even do it okay yes I know that you you know when it comes down to it you uh start tripping and you want to have like full-on conversations maybe you also keeping me up and stuff like that I got some noise canceling headphones because like they they said they ain't got no more drones right or like I don't really you know open the conversation with someone who's like who I know it's going to be unreasonable it's like how you I mean you guys you have a good chunk of boundaries that you guys have even when it comes to the social space it's just like hey you may recognize me Please don't approach me in public, like I'm not going to respond to you.
That's yours. That's one of yours. Oh, no. Okay. Yeah, no, that's not mine either. That's what I'm like who ruled out of you. No, remember, I'm supposed to read. Oh, all right now. Probably like a decade ago. Yeah, when I wasn't used to it. Just be reasonable about how y'all approached us. Yes, and if I'm with kids, yeah, please, please, that's an appropriate thing, right? Okay, um, versus it. No, me like, I'm because I'm so very lucky. Everybody's always so nice. You know, and half the time is black women. Yeah, like, and they are. It smells so good. They're so amazing. I just love this real. So like, half the time, I'm just like, yeah, I got you. Yeah. Maybe like I'm talking to you, like, I know you. That's a girl talking to you. Like, I know you. So I'm very, I can say my core audience is black women, right? I'm freaking amazing. Yeah. So every time they approach me, I'd be like, all right, see it. All right, see it. I'll see you later. I'm going to, I'm going to plane to do back. Like, I don't even know he was going to be your, I might never see you again, but this is great. But we have the good. Yeah. You know, um, but yeah, it's more so what guides your behavior. So like, I'm going to put on noise canceling headphones. Love that. Don't come in here super late. She won't come in here late. So I got the headphones on and I'm going to keep it going right by expectations when like, you have certain standards of what you think should happen. Like, this is what I require from the people around me respect. And I don't get that from you. My expectations is that I wish that she will come in at a different time. But that's not the case. I can't control what you do, right? I can't control what you do. And then honestly, the natural consequence, y'all going to get into it, you try to switch rooms and stuff like that. But it's all the accommodations I would make for myself. Right. Like, I lock my food up. Um, I don't, I, if I come into the weekends, I probably try not to come into the room that often. Um, I've had the conversation with you because one of my boundaries is like, I just make sure I'm actually engaging to me to protect my time and energy. I have to put forth all these steps. And I did that. So at least I don't have the thought process of, well, I never tried. Right. Right. Um, and then if that keeps me involved in, you know, Violet, because people were real differently. Then it's like, that's when people probably think you to opt because it's like, I'm fine with a blade. Yeah, I'm trying to go somewhere else. Um, this is a really good learning experience because everyone's had that. But I, you really do just find other ways to, to do things when it comes down to it. That's like, that's the whole boundary with it. But the thing about that is people going here this and they're going to be like, what are they still doing this stuff? And that's what sucks, bro, because you, you can't. Right. You can only control yourself. You want to call your parents and they're going to be like, I'm sorry this sucks. They said they had no more rooms. You're just going to have to deal with her. You're going to call your, like, there's nothing else you can do, except for learn from it. Maybe you try to get an apartment on campus. Maybe you try to make sure next time you put more energy into finding someone. Maybe now you're looking for someone to stay with next year, but like, that's the thing about it. Cause it's like, eventually, you want to deal with like, she living it up. Like she somehow, she's still passing on her classes or she not. And she knows she not. She knows her last semester, so she's living. Don't care. She said, girl, I'm here for a good time, not a long time. I don't feel like a long time. So I'm going to enjoy the fact that I still got some capacity. Right. And I'm going to come in whatever literally. That's the thing that really, really sucks. Like you can't, you learn from it. You start to be more realistic with stuff. And you figure out what you can deal with and what you can deal with. And then also that's a lot of stuff that leads to you that does lead to fights. Like that leads to you. You snap and stuff like that. Cause there's only so many times you're going to feel disrespected. Exactly. That's life. Like that's also being in community. A lot of times I think people struggle with community because people are rear differently. But it's also the fact that like community means you are going to be irritated. Yes. You are. You are. Yeah. Because everything is different. Like, it's not like you're, it's not possible to not be annoyed by other people. I'm going to be annoyed by myself. Every time I overthink, I'd be like, why did we do this? Why am I? You know, why am I thinking about this? Why am I still? It's typical. So it's just like when people think about community, they think about all the fun stuff. They think about. Oh, well, this person is there to help me. And I have the extent of their well-being. And you don't think about the time where they violate something or you violate something. And that's still part of being in community with people. Because you're not going to want to engage with everyone. I always say my black love is accountability. A lot of people don't like that. Like the biggest times where I've gotten pushed back from challenging people is when they were black. Oh, yes. If I'm challenging some European American woman. Yes. Let me be holding a black person accountable. Oh, my God. I'm just like, what about what happened about black love? It's like, do you love you love them so much you want to let them walk around here looking stupid? Right. Is this really love what's being demonstrated here in front of you? Right. Especially since black people are the most dumb playing my face people I've ever met. Right. We do. We be like this. But then when it's somebody, it's one of us playing in our face. We'd be like, I mean, it's okay. Make an excuse and that's why the bad behavior continues because that's why the bad behavior continues. We continue to accommodate it. It's because I'm coming against the black person. Right. Hey, no, it'll be like that. I just be like, well, you know, or when I'm focused on, I get a lot of pushback when I, if I do post that focus on black men, which is wild. Because people will be like, what about black women? And most of the people in my comments will be like, are you new here? They are. They are. They're new. They don't know you say it. I just want to clarify. Yeah. And she's saying she doesn't focus enough on black women. Yeah. Because this one post talks about play. I've dealt with that somebody like, oh, you're criticizing moms. What about dads? I'm like, oh, baby, you're brand new to me. The way I be dragging these men. When I tell you, I always say, like, listen, I took my vows. I said, I would be nice to one man. Okay. Not man. One. Okay. That's just my husband. And I want to sleep. You know, he sometimes see me like, man, you got to take it. I don't want to take it easy on anybody. I don't know these people. I got two boys unless they tell me otherwise. And they, and you know what? They become men. I'll be like, now listen. Now listen. I don't care if you came for me or not. Right. Y'all, y'all don't have the best PR as a gender. Okay. So don't play with me. Your dad will tell you. That number, that can rotate any day. It could be your brother tomorrow. I'm going to be mean to you. You know, like, I'm just very much like, he did what? But yeah, it happens all the time. That's why I think the boundaries people could be having better is like this. Currently, I think people could do better at where they take their information from making incredible resources. I found that like a lot of times with the news that it would just, it would just be too much and of course it will impact my move, but I also have to be aware. So I have like times of the day where I'm not looking at certain things. My algorithm thinks, I think my room thinks I'm a rich like European American woman. I like to crochet because yeah, I was getting asked for jets the other day. Jets. And I said, like J ETS jets. Like, like, this is how you customize. You got to go with, and I'm sitting here watching it. Like, well, you got to go with the six-seater, like an airplane. Yes. This is one of the other things I am. Okay. Okay. Well, this is who they think. I think it's Sophie. Big money. Well, see, they're polls are like if you're going to customize a plane or cat videos. One time I went a little too, too, like because somebody was talking about something with, um, I think it was a spoof though, like black woman. And I was like, all right, we got to rate it in. Got to be more discerning about what I'm taking in information. I tell people, just try to. The first thing we're talking about boundaries, the easier one that I try to tell people is honestly with socials. And I like, there's a built-in reward system for doing something well and doing it right. I try to go with like the lowest, the easiest one. People talk about they have so many things they want to work on and where to start. And I say start with the easiest. Yes. Social boundaries. Whether it's media in person in person is harder for a lot of people, but social media. That's actually one of the ones I actually try to tell people to start with because it's something a lot of people struggle with. Oh, really. Yeah, so it's so low risk. It's not so it's the scroll. It is low risk, the scrolling, the responding to people. Um, who they follow, um, who they, you know, yeah, but they're still looking at their account. Right. Okay. It should be easier, but. Y'all get rage baited though. You drive me yourself crazy with these people. Yes, but they don't see it that way. See, like they're staying informed. Um, so it's in the under the guys of being informed. It's like, oh, well, I have to know. And I say the same thing. Like if there's a zombie apocalypse, you will know you will know when the dead bodies are in the street. You'll know, girl. Yes. Every single time you're watching this mom who seems like she has it all together. And you follow her for tips and tricks. But every single time you after ending the video, like you got tension in your body. You're starting to question how good of a mother you are. And you're starting to think you should be doing more. This is not. Maybe that's not the person to follow. I don't follow fitness people who like. Who aren't really parents. I want to see a dirty diaper next to your push. Right. You need to be in the trenches. Like I need to see somebody in the. In the trenches. Right. You screaming. Right. And blueies on in the background.
It's somebody's running around with a diper on it. Somebody's all right. Oh mama every two minutes So this weekend girl get on my face. I don't even know what was Monday for real That's me with my dog and ice coffee content I remember watching someone and they were doing these different flavors ice cubes. Yeah Even just being able to throw past I'm the first time I saw Jackie IE is content I was like, oh, I don't think this is for me. Did I comment that because she was seeing her sheets. Oh, oh, yeah, you know, Jackie Fancy I'm not doing it I'm just like I don't think this is for me. This is not for me. We're just girl But I'm not doing that. Yeah, I'm not gonna comment and say this is unrealistic because it's very realistic for her She's doing it But I don't even you know, I'm still Even folded my clothes from two weeks ago, right, you know, so like just being aware. Yes, what is for you and what is for you? Not commenting. Yes, they don't need to know leave other people leave people who not doing no harm alone What harm is her steaming her sheets doing to me? It's unrealistic for her to have marble floors and white furniture She doesn't have a bunch of dirty children running around she can have her marble floors. Nobody's cracking their head open She can have white furniture because kids and dogs is not running around messing her things up People will be like it's not realistic. It is though because this is them, right? They're like, right. This is what it is not realistic for your home. It's not realistic for your home Yeah, it's one of the first place I try to tell people it's still been a lot of people follow people that makes you But they're responding in a way. Yeah, and I'll just be like I mean you're frowning you're questioning yourself more It's it's the easier way I always tell clinicians like you know people they're people typically have a lot of stuff to work on Start with the easiest one like why are you over here trying to have them reset their attachment style when they need to just organize their kitchen Yeah, let's think about that instead of like well, let's talk about attachment style Well, it's gonna take a while right The energy that will propel them from being able to figure out their own executive functioning Actually, going to be more receptive to taking this I mean you can Was easy you can learn all day, but that first time you actually execute and do what you didn't know you could do oh The neural pathways are like oh my god Because they're forming new it's normal But like it's forming. It's forming new People need to know how it works. They understand it. Yeah, it does You're forming new you can learn you can that's so important to emphasize to people who don't see a way out that like You can absolutely change you don't know what you don't know you can't see what you can't imagine But it is absolutely possible for your brain to learn new things and take you out of this current way of thinking and believing Yes, as long as you keep doing it exactly and just be real about the fact that sometimes stuff feels like it sucks because it sucks I wish more people would talk about the The sucky part of healing like the part of like outgrown people Yeah, how much work it is and the part of like sometimes doing toxic stuff is super fun. I'm really I was great at cussing people out like fantastic and now I'm like, I believe you. Is this responsible? Is this appropriate? Is this person hurting? Is this detrimental? Yeah Hey being responsible in my interactions with others Yeah, isn't really that fun for me. I'm gonna be honest with you like being responsible isn't always that fun I'm talking to my I was talking to my goddaughter about romantic relationships, and I said let me tell you something Someone been wearing been my husband since I was 20. I'm 37 considering someone else It's a big one It is a really big thing and that's what good relationships are built on and sometimes I do want to be like I don't care But I'm not gonna do that because that's unreasonable, right? It's just be like I know this is your opinion But I don't but I really don't care what you think about the cabinet I did not ask you about interior design and then he's like I'm your husband. I live here They don't sit on the couch You know, like someone's gonna be like don't sit on the couch then don't sit on the couch Okay, like the fact that it's just like in my brain I shouldn't have to talk to you about the individual count. They become out to join the count fine But why am I talking to you about how I spend my money? Oh, what if it's a new car what are you talking about all right But that's not reasonable right right because you're sharing your life with this person because you're sharing your life What's on so you talk and you listen you don't be a butt you be like yes, let me Consider your opinion just because you happen to live here That's not fun, bro, right being a jerk is like it's like it's it's It's it's fun. It's a it's a rush of great feeling hormones or at least it can be and it can be a huge release But keeping healthy relationships close to us is also so fun Having healthy relationships is also fun because I'm saying something that's been like that right He would he would dip out and not be playful because you don't right That's not how you maintain relationships have conversations. You do stuff like that But the people a lot of times who are jerks Sometimes they alone or they're rich. Oh, yeah, I'm not Gonna be a healthy person, but yeah, I try to sell people you consider other people and even with your boundaries You consider people too. I know we have that whole thing about Noah's a complete sentence But I actually don't mind having a conversation about it Expressing my knees and expressing why this is important to me Yeah, actually find that it can be really helpful now there can be people who try to like Convince you and those aren't the people I'm trying to converse with right but people who I'm genuinely trying to bail boundaries with Because there are people that I will build walls with because I'm like I don't care about this relationship Yeah, yeah, I just have to get this project done. So Noah's a complete sense, but for someone like you know Someone I have a healthy relationship with my mom or my husband's or even my children You like this is important just so that they can understand but the same way I say rules are appropriate at times walls are appropriate sometimes Yeah, you put your hands on me. Oh, while it's going up babe I'm not I'm not what I just wanted to talk about Listen and dr. Martin not carceral, but I am don't put some damn hands on me baby You ain't never seen a black woman caught and I want one so fast It's not that I really Chris. It's not that I really really struggle with I really do because like It'll have to be something breathing. No, you're right. I'm I'm being silly, but you're right. You're right I have let black people get away with a lot I do I do I let black people get away with it a lot this year And only reason why it took longer is because it was against the black woman. Yeah, I was just like damn. Can you please pay me? I'm just asking you to pay me. You need to pay me girl. Yeah, the contract We have a legal document sister When it comes to black people, I typically let them walk. No, it's real. You know, we got to do better We gotta do better, but yeah, I think a lot of people just heard this and was like damn I've been calling rules a boundary. I've been calling threats Boundary It's a boundary and it's a wall. I've been saying I protected my piece, but the only thing I'm protecting is my isolation Right, so what is the first thing you should be doing if you're just now realizing this about yourself Should you also be doing whatever is the closest Most simplest task or whatever to get you out of this to sort of shift your understanding of boundaries and have a better application of it in your own life Yeah, I would think like real quick. Just think about like with the stuff that you're saying is a boundary Are you controlling you or are you trying to control someone else? I'm a big person for like writing stuff That's a great question. That is a great question. I'll find a problem with that So like oh, I'm telling this person not to do this. That's a rule. I'm gonna do this. That's a boundary When you have power to kind of control the person's behavior, but it's based off of something I actually say that's like a threat. Yeah, like ultimatum and stuff like that um, and then if it's too stringent if it's like always all or nothing and Thinking about whether it's appropriate and stuff like that. I've been on writing stuff down um, and if you if you're trying to think about like where to go how to know which ones to address Um, even to start with the boundaries Like a boundaries builds resentment and relationships. So I tell a lot of people to think about relationships where Um, you feel a certain way before spending time with them and after there's like an emotional residue after spending time with them Yes, it basically means that like there's something that has to be addressed and it could be a boundary It could be a rule could be something like that um, but if you find that it's not working Um, if you find that like you're consistently having to You consistently violated yourself Because once again nobody can violate your boundary with you I just love the way you phrase that because I have said a million times that people violate this boundary violate that boundary But you like know you violate your own boundary because this now people violate they can violate rules all the time because that's something Um, but I also can't be real to you. I expect people to no one does What you want them to do for real and half the time if they do it's typically because they have a buy-in with you Um, and your relationship with them is important and stuff like that, but to think that like It's kind of like how to talk a lot about the black community parenting out of respect versus obedience One people we obey is like the police to a certain extent and fear runs out, right? Like so baby when it comes to respect and boundaries and stuff like that like it's it doesn't it doesn't work that long It's just like you everybody has had a conversation with that child who was like, oh yeah the weapons eventually stop working Yeah, cuz it's not a it's not a thing right. It doesn't it doesn't work. It runs out. So
Think about if you're trying to do a banjo rule, think about whether it's still necessary. I mean, 'cause they can evolve. I tell more people to write stuff down. If you don't know where to start, think about relationships where you feel as though something is off and you possibly have resentment for the relationship. An example I give all the time is say my friend asked me to help them move and I said yes, even though I got a bad back and I'm exhausted and then I go to help her move and then I gotta attitude the whole time and I'm like, this is on them. This is on you. This is on you. You should have. - Why don't you just say no? - Don't go around here with a fucked up attitude. Like, you had the choice. - And then you're mad at me. - You're mad at me. And a lot of times people don't think about like, well, what got in the way of you actually saying no, is it because this person, previously when you said no, they acted a certain way, is it because you had a fear of that, you know, when I have the conversation and discomfort of that conflict, you gotta remember that the issue is poor conflict resolution, not conflict as a whole. And I will say, a lot of people have a habit of giving people energy that they didn't deserve. Like, say, I'm having a conversation with Kenya and I'm not honest with Kenya about something because my issue with Paul happened in last time, Paul responded differently. Then I'm gonna do a Kenya. - Oh yeah. - Like, we're giving other people energy that they didn't deserve. - Yes. - That really gets to a point where it's like, you get people's option to support you and kind of like, and harm you. You gotta figure it out. But a lot of times, people will say they learn from experience and I get that. But you're also given certain people energy they didn't deserve. Like, nothing about your relationship with this person stated that this would go this way. No, I'm not saying that I have some sense. I ain't saying be a fool, you know, like keep an eye on stuff. But I think a lot of times stuff will break down and people not setting something 'cause when they told their aunt, no, they freaked out. So they don't even want to tell their cousin or sister, no, it's like a whole thing. So I would say start there, write stuff down, y'all. Y'all buy these journals from TJ Maxx and Marshall's every time y'all frickin' go. And then y'all don't write, nothing in them. - All right, not too much on me. (laughing) - It's so real though. No, we all do it, we all do it. - We do all do it. That's why we, okay. You're in good conflict. Why is something in them, Jones? You're like, can we, can we just, you'll be right, some stuff down. Or my students, my younger, my students that they cannot stand right in stuff. So they'll do voice memos. I get it, generation. - Yeah, if you must. - Y'all could all stand to work on your hand, right? So I will prefer you, right? But like whatever, get it out. - Get it out. - Stop down. What are you trying to do and just investigate and understand that it's gonna take time. But I understand it's like it's something new. I just, we have to understand that we live in an oppressive society that really benefits from us not knowing ourselves well and our minds well and our bodies well. They very do much benefit from us not taking the time to investigate our own wellbeing. Because when you investigate your wellbeing, you can really get to the source of the people or the system that are contributing to the issue. And a lot of people benefit from us not doing that. - Right. - Like, but having to slow down. This is something that maybe like 10 minutes a week. I'm used to working with people who, they give me 50 minutes and they be like, "All right, now, now I ain't come here just to talk." I got six EAP sessions, figure it out. Like, that's who I am. - Oh yeah. - Yes, my patients talk to me for real. So I'm like, okay, let's figure this out. My stuff is more tangible. Like see if you can do it for 10 minutes. I understand it's going to be uncomfortable, but start somewhere. Most of the time when I'm talking to black people, I'm like, "You can't continue the way you've been going." - Yeah. - You just can't. And it's going to be uncomfortable. Sometimes it feels like it sucks. That's because it probably do. - Okay. - And that has to be, we have to acknowledge that and work our way right through it. 'Cause otherwise we will never get over it. - No, it's not easy. So curious, not sexy, man. Have to think I enjoy budgeting and communicating effectively. When it goes well, yes. But there are also the times when I communicate effectively. And I'm like, "Oh, I just realized you hate me for real." I'm just not realizing this. - That sucks. - You got like, so it's like, now I got to sit with this and now I got to have this conversation with you and now I got to like do all this. I don't think I'm going to do that. I just want stuff to be easy. That's not how it's going to be. - Right. - And that's okay. It'll feel better in the end. Probably going to suck in that moment. Like, wow, you've been in competition with me this whole time and I just realized it. I'm just not realizing this is your incredible scene. - That's why. - You don't even know. - Right. - It's like, if it's not black or white, it's not very simple. It's not if you do this, that's going to happen. It's going to be gray. That's also the magic of being a human being. Black people are dehumanized every day. We've never been rehumanized. That's the magic of being a human of having this expansive world and understanding that. And knowing that it's what makes people great. Like, I love myself. What I want to do will fit the enemy. God. I don't take anything seriously unless it's like trauma. - Right. - That's a high level. There's so much stuff below trauma that I should be taking seriously. - It's not happening. - Dr. Martin, thank you so much for coming on the show and sharing your incredible knowledge and expertise. I think we all learned something self-included today about boundaries and how best to enact them in our own lives. So thank you again, congratulations on the new little bundle arriving soon. - Thank you. - I'm so excited to be done. - Please tell the people where they can find you. - You can find me at Rack Helmer and PhD everywhere on Instagram, on TikTok, on Threads. All I do is talk trash on Threads. So just a heads up and then on my website, rackhelmerandphd.com, bunch of free resources. Oh, and then also I'm very bad at doing this. I'm advertising this. I have a community for black women. - Oh, yes you do. - Yes you do. - I'm so bad at advertising this. But we have, I think we do like, we have two moderators in a community manager, all black women. We probably do about four virtual events a month. There's a free option and a paid option. Free option means you get the, you get one virtual event a month and then you also get a bunch of the message boards. And then the paid one, you can pay what you can afford. It's five, 10 or $15 a month. It's very much like whatever you can afford. But it's all virtual. You can access to this month, the topic that I talked about was identity beyond roles. So we very much did exercises about who you are outside of your utility and why that's so important for black women. It's a mental health community, but it's also education community. It's the way for me to do more workshops and stuff like that. I always forget to share that. But like, yeah, so I'm just an important work. So much of the important work that you're doing, yes. And it's just something that I really appreciate about you and all of the clinicians who have come on the show is that sharing this knowledge with the general public and helping people see how all of these academic theories and things like that actually affect their real lives and things we can do to help people improve their lives. It just means so much. So thank you again for sharing your very, very expensive time with us today. All right, y'all, that is going to wrap up this week's episode of Crystalscatch. Follow us online at Crystalscatch. If you have a question for me, send me an email,
[email protected]. We'll see you next week.
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