(upbeat music) - Hi, and welcome to Crystal's Catch, the show where I answer your letters for advice and talk to the most interesting people in the world. I'm back to talking to more of you live colors this week, so let's not hesitate, let's jump right on in. Who's up first? - Antel. - Hi, Shantel, how are you? - Good, how about you? - I'm doing good, what's going on with you? - Well, overall, I wanna see was my dad right for ghosting me. - Okay. - Okay, so a little background. My dad and I have had a kind of distant relationship. My grew up with my mom primarily. My dad and I lived in the same state up until it was about nine. The second oldest out of five kids, I'm 29 right now. - Okay. - We're living the same state up until nine. After I moved, I didn't see him until I was 22. - Well, in between that timeframe, we kind of have just like phone call conversations here and there, or I wouldn't hear from him from kind of time. But after I finally saw him, when I was 22, that was for my college graduation. Also adulthood, it was like, oh, I'm sorry for not being there, but I wanna continue having a relationship. But it's kind of like, you know, the phone works both ways, type of situation, but I was still making effort to fly out and see him in a different state that he was in. It was fun, it was fun. But the most recent time that I went to go see him was for a work trip. I was like, hey, I'm gonna be there for about two days, very quick, but I still wanna make some time to see him. It was like, okay, cool. I'm a scheduled dinner. I'm busy this afternoon, but I'll let you know when we have-- It was like, okay, cool. When was I was landing? I was riding around like a chicken with his head cut off, immediately answering emails at the airport. I found some time to link up with my sister, who was on my dad's side. We got brunch, texted him letting him know, hey, I landed. I had to go get brunch with my sister. Yeah, I called her during brunch, but I didn't answer, 'cause she was in the middle of talking about some personal things. I was like, okay, I'm gonna call him later. After that, I went to go to a hotel, had some more work calls to go join on. He called my sister to see where I was, and she let me know like, oh, hey, she's working. Then around, texted him like, hey, me and my sister were about to go look at some wedding venues 'cause it's self getting married. Those are got some venues at the time too. So, like I'm saying, it's a jam-packed day. Right. Then he was like, so that's a five, I don't know. I'm like, hey, I'm looking at wedding venues. Then he texted me like, hey, I got reservations for 7.30. Can you make it? I was like, oh, great, I can, for race, you then. 6.30, he calls me. And he answered, my phone's out one percent. One of those people who doesn't have their phone charge, but they'll leave the house. I'm about to die. It's all time again, we'll call him back in a little bit. I texted him back 15 minutes later, like, hey, my phone's out one percent. Bought to head to the hotel. Where are we going to meet up? He responds and lets me know, like, oh, I can't today because I didn't hear from you. Your communication has been inefficient all day. Do better. I was like, wait, how did you cancel it that quick? Like, I just got back. And so I call him back and I'm like, hey, what's going on? He starts going off, like, what's going on? That's what you say to me. You should be apologizing profusely. I'm gonna be here waiting by this busy street. And I can't cancel something last minute or you get charged. Like, you should best all arrogant if you're not to be apologizing. And figuring out what you did to make this reservation I go through. So you start going off, I'm not going on or say my communication is ineffective by it. I texted you when I landed, let you know I'm working. Like, you knew where I was. And so I'm trying to explain, like, I don't know what I'm apologizing for. If you don't, if you don't tell me what's actually happened? How'd you cancel it that quickly? The conversation was going live. He said some things, like, when I was trying to show him, like, hey, you're saying you called me all day long. I only have like one missed call and I have the call log and here's the screenshot. He's like, that's what's wrong with black women today. You guys are always trying to be right and don't want to take accountability for nothing. At one point, he was like, I'm the parent, not you. And I was like, good. And not really set him off. He was like, you were not about to be disrespectful. That's not how we run things. All of your men and my kids will ever do that. I don't know how you do things with your mom, but that's not gonna fly here. It just went on and on to things like that. We did not come to like a good conclusion. He even hung up on my face several times. It's like, I'm a blocking. Don't be playing in my face. It's like, you're talking about like, you know, be an adult, communicate, but you're the one I say you're unblocked and hang up on my face. Right. So I even said things like, oh, like, this is type of things that make people don't speak. And I'm like, wow, really? Is there really that series? So getting down to how it's been in the last 10 months, I reached out to him, say, happy birthday. I've called and said, happy, Merry Christmas. I've even sent him invitations for our wedding celebration, no response. So it gets down to the question of, was he right in ghosting me? Like, was it really that bad? And then B, now that I haven't had a response from reaching out three different times. Like, how do I know when it's the right time to move on when my parent is reciprocating trying to mend things? - Mm-hmm. Well, there's a lot here. Shout out to, oh, first of all, (laughs) I'm sorry that your dad is the way he is. First and foremost, do I think it makes sense to ghost your own child over this? Of course not. This is extremely petty. And if you all were supposed to meet up at 7.30, for him to cancel dinner reservations at like 6.45 or whatever, because he hadn't heard from you yet, is absurd. Like, this is just to throw a temper tantrum like that over this is, it sounds like maybe you weren't as available as he wanted you to be that day, but it also sounds like he wasn't available to you for the overwhelming majority of your childhood. - Exactly. - I would think that one day in adulthood, if you like being spotty on phone calls or whatever would not be enough to dismantle this budding relationship with your own daughter. So what is it, have you talked to your mom or your siblings about this? - My mom is like, you don't need to be puttin' up with that. He needs help. He needs to pray in all this type of stuff. He's got his issues. They didn't really have a healthy relationship, but he's always kinda trying to be like, you know, hope things work out. And you know, that's your dad type of thing, but she's kinda just like, move on, situation. My sister, my older sister and my dad, like, she's like, you know what I'm saying. - Hang on, sorry, sorry, you broke up for just a second. I didn't hear what you just said. - You hear me now? - Yes. - Okay, my sister on my dad's side, we formed a relationship later in life as adults. So like, that was without him even facilitating. So she also like has a same relationship where he kind of didn't really listen anybody and you know, start yelling at people. But she was there when I was having the conversation with them. So like, she knows I was not being disrespectful. She's like, well, I've never heard him speechless. Like, he's actually listening what you're saying. So she's like, no, you didn't do anything wrong. Like, he's been like this his whole time. He's trying to just like talk over people and things he can talk to people in a type of way. So he's like, on my same side of like, and knowing how he is and didn't do anything wrong. I'm like, was it bad? Like, he really is not. He's really not saying happy birthday. (laughs) - Right, I would definitely say, you certainly did not do anything bad enough for your father to warrant this behavior. It sounds like he's always been extremely immature and you gave him just enough rope for him to hang himself with, so to speak. Like, this was just enough of a minor inconvenience at best. Like, it's honestly the way you're talking. It sounds like you were still keeping in touch with him like throughout the day you had checked in. He made dinner reservations, you confirmed. So it's like, he, it's almost like he was just looking for a reason to behave this way. Does that, do you think that might be it? - I think so, 'cause even when I'm thinking about it, I was like, you canceled that quick. Okay, what's the next spot? Like, I don't feel like, okay, let's still, let's still go somewhere I'm literally here for two days. I was like, okay, go to the next spot. - Oh yeah, and it's just the things he was saying, like, oh, like, you only sent me texts. You would have thanks time your mom when you landed, like, oh yeah, that's my mom, but like, I really didn't. - My mother raised me, you came around on holidays. Let's not act like you're the same. - Exactly, exactly. So like, he's in like, oh, me hanging with my out, the stir before him was like a thing. I'm like, you weren't even available that afternoon and it's a whole different relationship where she's actually taking the time to try to get to know me as an adult, like, really making the effort. So, I think I'm at the point where I'm like, I have reached out three times, like, dang, like, is this really about to be the point where I don't speak to him ever again? And I'm also kind of annoyed, like, man, I don't want it to be the one that made that choice. (laughing) Like, if we were gonna not be on speaking terms, it should have been me who did that. Like, he's broken so many promises and I've just been so open-minded in this. Hey, you know, even though this isn't the relationship that I've wanted, man, like, okay, I'm gonna lower my standards or like my expectation so I don't get hopes up. So I'm just being the one to be like, actually, I'm not going to speak to you ever again. It's frustrating 'cause I feel like I should've been the one to do that. So that's the thing that I'm still thinking about, like, dang, it's really gonna be like this. And then it's like the future aspect of like, What are they going to be like when I have to?
and they eventually want to get to know him, or most like certain events, like find milestone, like if he's really not gonna be there for that, like, that's crazy, you know? Over this, it's just like, wow, this is really, you know, so I'm like, should I reach out one more time? But really, I've reached out three times. I didn't even have it, so. - Right. - I know, I'm feeling like I might have my answer. (laughs) - Oh no. - Yeah, well, I will say this to the point about your sister, and you know, him may be feeling away because you were with your sister instead of him. I would counter that your sister also, you know, did not have the obligation to try to be closer to you. Of course, it's nice because you share blood, but she isn't the one who abandoned you, you know? Like, it wasn't her job to raise you and be a part of your life. That was his job. He had the responsibility of being an active present parent and he failed at that. And so you being a beautiful young woman with your life together, a career, and engaged, and all this, and you don't need him in any way. You're not chasing him down, you know, all this sort of thing. It may, that may have something to do with why he reacted this way. Maybe he expected to be treated like a priority, even though he never put in a priority level of work or effort with you as you were growing up. So, you know, there's lots of things that could be going on here, but I'll say this. It is still under your control, whether the two of you speak again. Like, right now it sounds like he's throwing a tantrum and he probably loves it when you reach out. He probably loves to see your name pop up on his phone or whatever, 'cause he's like, "I'm still mad and I'm gonna show her." You know, like a four-year-old would do. And you're not invited to my birthday party anymore. You know, like, it's a very childish response. And I wanna be super clear that it's nothing you did. This is not him shutting down like this is not about this one day of, you know, venue shopping and going out with your in-law or whatever. It is not about that. It is fully about him and his lack of capacity to be a good father. Whatever his immaturity is, whatever his trauma, his demons are, I don't know the answer to that, but I think you're well within your right to not reach out again. You never needed to in the first place as you acknowledged like you really never had to, but the fact that you wanted to or the fact that you did is not something to be upset or ashamed about. It's quite natural for children to want their parents. It's a hard-wire biological aspect of being a human being. We naturally want to be connected to the people who brought us into this world. And so when they fall short of their responsibility, it's crushing, it's devastating for kids. And when we, it's very common for us to try to find any way we can to try to make that relationship work, to try to feel like, okay, maybe he messed up when I was a kid, but maybe now that I'm an adult, you know, things can be better and we can have that sort of relationship. But this is something that was never up to you. Whether you had a relationship with your dad was never under your control. That was always on him to facilitate you and the child. Like he said, I'm the adult and you were like, okay, and that pissed him off even more. 'Cause like, how dare you say that? You're supposed to fall over yourself and be like, oh yeah, daddy, woo-woo-woo. As if he earned that. - Right. - Imature people want a level of respect that they have not earned. I, in all of what you told me about this man, I did not hear, oh well, when things went wrong, my dad was the first one to show up and even though I didn't work out with him and my mom, he got me every weekend and took me out of the country for my birthday and blood, none of that. It was, I barely saw him, Christmas is mostly, you know, until I was nine and then it was like, not even that. So, I'm sorry, I can really relate to having an overgrown toddler as a father. But you can make the decision that the two of you aren't gonna speak again. It's very possible that someday he decides that he's done punishing you and so he's gonna reach out, he's gonna try to email, he's gonna try to call and he finds out that he's not able to have that access to you because you've decided to block it off. It is, the power is fully in your hands at this point just because he's acting like this now doesn't mean that you don't get to take some sort of control here and say, you know what, this is the last time you play with me. This is the last time. I've let you be in and out of my life, all of my life. I've let you just kind of show up however you wanted to for years and years and years and I'm actually done. And if you have children in the future and they ask about him, you can say, unfortunately my daddy's not a nice daddy. Like all daddies aren't nice daddies or something like that. You know, there's age appropriate ways to talk to kids about having absent parents and I do feel your pain here but this can be the last time that he hurts you if that's what you want. It really can. - That's good advice here that there is still, there's still a chance I still have some sort of like control in this 'cause I'm like, I don't, I didn't get to choose but there's still a future and you don't know how that'll be and it's still a decision that I can make up with this relationship. - Right. - Yeah. - Right. - Right, some more clarity there. - Yes, the question now is, is not are the two of you ever gonna talk again, but are you going to leave the door open for the two of you to talk again? And that is completely up to you. - Yeah, that's good. That's good. - Yeah, that's good. That's good. I think I feel like I have all the information I need. - Okay. - So just like, let me just give her someone else things. So I'm like, yeah. - Do nothing that bad like. - You did that. - Do not make that bad. - Girl. (laughing) - Not a damn thing. Unfortunately, a lot of people are just childish as hell and growing up doesn't mean that you mature. - Yeah. - Well, thank you so much, Shantel, for calling in. I'm wishing you the best with your wedding and your future. Yes, best of luck to you, babe. - Thank you. - Hi, thank you so much. Yeah, guys, it's just like that sometimes with parents where everybody is not fortunate to have to emotionally mature parents and this is what it can look like sometimes when you have the unfortunate burden of dealing with somebody who was supposed to be an adult about a situation and never has and maybe never will. You got to take your power back. All right, let's see who's next. (phone ringing) - Hi. - Hi, how are you? - I'm good. - How are you doing on this fun, whatever day? Monday, just fun, Monday morning. You doing all right? - I'm doing great, thank you. What's your name? - My name is Arya. - Arya? - Arya. - Okay, Arya, what's going on? - Well, first I have to give you your flowers. I know you hear this all the time, but I'm so proud of you getting your master's degree and I think it's-- - Thank you. - From the same time, I got my undergrad, so look at us both. - Congratulations. - Period. But yeah, what's going on? So I'm gay, black 24, living in South Carolina, fuck you, Lindsey Graham, and talk about my auntie who I believe with no medical training or mental health training believe that she has some sort of bipolar paranoid schizophrenia disorder that's causing her to behave in irrational ways. - Okay. - I'll just start it off here. So last year, my auntie moved to South Carolina to be closer to her family after the passing of my grandparents. Since she's moved down here, her and she's moved into the same church that my parents go to, I don't go to church with them anymore, but she's moved into that church and she's kind of integrated herself into the community that we did have down here. A few months ago, she went on a trip with my parents to Myrtle Beach for some sort of church convention. I'm not sure about all the details on that, but they, at some point during their trips, she lost her ID. We don't know how she lost it. I assume it's just, it just got lost. When back, my parents helped her tear the car apart to help her look for it, but we assume that she lost it somehow during the trip. While they, while we sometime has passed, she's started claiming that somebody in her family, she's been picking these posts. She has been making these posts on Facebook claiming that someone in her family, she has siblings though, it kind of seems vague, but everybody knows that she lives in South Carolina, so it's kind of obvious she's talking about my parents, my mom, her sister. It's just claiming that somebody still, her ID, has been committing crimes in other states, and it's negatively impacting her. Oh, wow. No one's responded to these accusations at all, because they're completely unfounded. She has no proof. Nobody would do that to her. It's gone to a different thing now. She's now going on long, unhinged, and grammatically incorrect rants on Facebook about how somebody in her family has got access to her medical records and is posting about her having HIV online. Even though nobody has made that claim, there are no rumors at the church about that. These are just things that she's kind of making up. Yeah. While these rants keep going on on Facebook, no one's responding to her, and I think that's sort of feeding into the delusion because very recently she reached out to my mother's job. She works at the VA hospital and my aunties are veteran. She's claiming that my mother has been accessing medical records and using that to sort of
of spread rumors about her, which has led to my mother being investigated at her job of 30 years. Oh, my goodness. My mom is not crazy. I write. I know right. My mom's not super concerned because she knows that there's no proof. There's also a file already on her about her making these kind of claims with no with no proof on and to take it a step even further. I found out that one of the churches that she moved away from when she moved down here, she started a rumor that her pastor was having a affair with somebody else, which was unfounded. Yeah. Kind of got to a point to where, and I've never heard this before, like I'm so serious, 24 years of life. I've never heard of this happening before. The church lits really came together, gathered all the tithes in the offering because they keep track of it. Gathered all the tithes in the offering she ever gave and gave it back to her and asked her to not come back. It's really never in my life heard of a church giving back the money that you baby me either. Really? That's never. Never. Wow. They said here's a full refund. Go home. Please don't come back. Oh, my goodness. So I guess my question to you is, how do you respond to a member of your family who is very clearly in a mental health crisis? That crisis isn't being taken seriously because for whatever reason, and we can blame it on the church upbringing, there, the response to any of her obvious signs of distress are to continue to pray for her, keep her in your prayers. Oh, just, just move past it because, you know, she's, we can acknowledge that she's mentally unwell. And I do want to add a little bit more information why I think that she might be mentally unwells because my grandmother also had dementia, bipolar disorder, and other mental health crises. Okay. Cousins actually told me about how she had a major mental health crisis while she was pregnant with my aunt, who was her last child, her meditary as many mental health issues can be raised. Right. Uh, well, it's very tricky because for a lot of reasons, um, because of the religious you know, background and everybody being like, oh, well, we can just pray about it, uh, because she hasn't, it doesn't sound like she's actually been diagnosed. This is just a suspicion, but the way she's acting is extremely erratic and yeah, doesn't make sense, um, but so we, we also don't have a formal diagnosis. Has anyone tried to talk to her directly about like girl, why are you on Facebook lying about people kind of sort of it's, okay, so this all kind of blew up around my mother's 60th birthday. Okay. Where me and a few of her close friends planned everything and this kind of started blowing up really badly like two to three days before the birthday celebration was supposed to happen and then we kind of formally, I didn't do it, but another close friend that was helping plan everything formally told her not to come to the birthday party. And so then more of these Facebook posts kept blowing up, what I'm blowing up because nobody's responding to them, but she just keeps posting them and, um, I've been asked not to talk to her about it because it might make things worth, make things worse because she's still kind of, I'm still technically under investigation at her job. Okay. As far as like directly speaking to her, I'm not sure because she still goes to the same church that my parents go to. Okay. I've been hearing about how she's been blowing up other people's personal phones and blowing up the church group chat with others, just all kinds of stuff and, you know, it's not getting her the reaction that I think she wants. And I mean, me personally, if I'm doing something that's not getting the reaction that I want, I would start to assume that maybe I'm wrong, but it is doubling down. Mm hmm. Yeah. Well, not to, you know, make light of a serious situation, but that's because you're in your right mind and it sounds like your any is not just saying that's because what yeah, you're functioning and she isn't, um, so, but it sounds like even if you did talk to her, she is likely to be very defensive or accuse you of like, you know, working on behalf of your mother or whatever or trying to make things worse for your mom at her job, which would have been, is obviously not ideal, so and something that just sort of a connection that I made. I remember a while ago, you went on about the story about how that woman shot up Rihanna's house, created this fantasy, yeah, things. And then eventually, of course, she's going to get arrested and then when they finally put her on those medications and she comes down from her delusion, she'll be like, I tracked down this complete stranger and shot at her house. Yeah. I'm going through and I don't want to go point to where she does something like that. Right. And where it's medicated because she's incarcerated and she's like, wow, I am now within my right mind, but it's too late now because I'm in the pen house, right, right. So there is a method, um, for loved ones of people who have severe mental illnesses to try to get them to accept the fact that something is wrong or get them to agree to seek treatment. You know, if it's really severe with your aunt, you can do like conservatorships, guardianships, but that's like a sort of last resort, you know, super extreme type of solution. So what I'm thinking of is called the leap method, LEP, you can look it up online if you want to really dive into it, but it stands for listen, empathize, agree, and partner. And so what you do is you start off by like not coming at her in the way that you would want to because somebody is lying about your mama and, you know, having her in trouble at working all this. The natural instinct is to be like, fuck is wrong with you. You know, get off Facebook, spread and lie, stop calling the VA with your bullshit. You know, that's a, that's a normal natural way to want to react to something like that. Instead, you take the approach of simply listening to what she has to say now in your case, what she has to say is pretty absurd, but I mean, like take, for example, the idea that somebody stole her ID and is using it to commit crimes. Now what I might want to say to that is, well, have you been charged with a crime? Have the police telephone, do you girl like the fuck? But instead you just sort of listen without agreeing or disagreeing. You really don't even comment too much on it. You just let them know that you're listening, oh, wow, hmm. So you haven't been able to find your ID, my goodness. That must be scary or like, were you able to go to the DMV to get another one? Things like that where you just show that you're listening to her. You're not really, but you're not encouraging the misguided beliefs. And you're not arguing with her about them either because in her mind, they're very real. And so anybody who tries to shoot it down is going to be looked at as an op, like, oh, okay. Are you working with the people who stole my ID and are committing felonies across the United States? You know, like, that's how that tends to go. So the next letter, the agree, is not about, again, it's not about agreeing with what she has to say substance wise, it's about finding common ground between the two of you. You have to, you have to find something that is going to help her with this motivation to change because again, it doesn't sound like she has any. And it may even be that the death of your grandparents has triggered something even more severe in her, like this may continue to get worse as she ages. And so even if it is, you know, like, any, all I want for you is like to be happy to feel like you have a good life here in South Carolina that you have a nice church on, like, can we agree that like, you know, this is what we both want for you. We want for you to be good. We want for you to feel like, you know, you're having a happy life here, you know, things like that. That sort of turns you into an observer who can point out things about this person's life that make them feel like, okay, well, maybe this person is on my side about certain things. Like, no, I know she's not diagnosed. So I think one of the examples they taught us in grad school is like, see, you know, you took your meds and you were able to avoid a hospital stay or something like that. See, your meds are doing something good for you or if she was on drugs, it would be like, oh, well, you know, you didn't get high that day or you didn't get drunk that day and you made it home safe. And see, we can agree that like, that was a good choice for you. So this might be a little bit trickier because it doesn't sound like your auntie is really having any of those specific examples, but in any way that you can agree on like an area where the two of you share common ground, that will help her become more open to your suggestions or what it is you have to say. The third, oh, wait, no, hold on, it's a, I skipped right over empathize in which straight to agree. So before you agree, switch around, you have to empathize. People have to feel like their feelings are really seen and heard and acknowledged by the other person. When we show someone empathy, like, like I said, with the ID, like, oh, my goodness, I must be so scary to lose your ID like that, like, where can I help you? Can I drive you to the DMV to get you another one? Can I help you order your birth certificate so we can get you another one, things like that, because this is, it sounds like it's coming from a place of fear. Now it also sounds like it's coming from a place of delight.
But there's nothing we can really do about the delusion part right now when she's undiagnosed and unwilling to To see a mental health professional about that. But again, it's not the same as agreeing with her belief It's not the same as agreeing with her delusions. It's just saying I see how you feel and I understand I hate to lose my ID too now. I'm having hell of a time at the airport And now I got to pull out my passport and I got to go standing on at the DMV for eight hours like oh, that sucks You know things like that make people yes, you just make people feel like okay You understand where I'm coming from and and you see how I feel you're not arguing with me about why I shouldn't feel that way You're saying okay. I see where you're coming from and I understand that feeling and so then the last letter the p That's for partner and this is you know and an ideal world and an ideal scenario where you've done the listening Empathizing and agreeing that now your auntie sees you as an ally instead of an op and So you making suggestions about like all auntie do you remember like when you thought maybe people were committing crimes With your ID, but then you know You never gotten to any trouble with the law That's the sort of thing like maybe we can go talk to the doctor about that and see if there's something that they can help you with You know, maybe there's a pill or maybe you can just talk to the doctor about it see where you know The stuff like that is coming from or any remember when you got kicked out that charge because you started that lie about the Pastor and they gave you all $12,000 of your ties and offering Sorry, not again not to make a light of it, but I also have never heard enough like that Maybe think of the absolute reverse of that one pastor who told that lady. Oh, you in the wrong line for your mind right Right, I've never heard of anything like that, but anyway, so you you get what I'm saying Hopefully once you get to the pee she'll see you as a partner and as someone that can be trusted Someone she can trust she probably doesn't feel like she can trust very many people But this is I have to tell you this is a lengthy process It takes a lot of work and effort to really build this with someone who is Deep in a mental illness that they don't even acknowledge so I I mean, and this is why so many people with serious mental illnesses end up alone They end up isolated because they don't really accept that something's wrong They may end up, you know on the street without any kind of support because they push people away with the mental illness and they refuse to get any sort of support for it So I do want to caution you in this like I'm I'm listing it out like oh, just do these things like it says me street Just do do these steps and your auntie will you know get the help she needs no It's very likely that she'll be like little boy don't talk to me about my ID you you you're working with you You probably got it in the bag of pocket or something like that, you know, I don't know But yeah, I feel like I just threw a lot at you Because that is you know, that's that is a tactic that we have that we were taught in grad school to give to the Friends and family of someone in this exact situation But the reality is that is this is very very challenging and If you have to call the people and have her committed if it gets to that level of like she started to come Violent towards herself or others. She's a threat. You know, she's making threats about her life for other people's lives You know, she's starting to commit acts of You know, she's starting to like burn stuff down or threaten to do things like that Then you have to get the people involved and you know, nobody wanted to go that far But sometimes it does have to go that far. Unfortunately Yes, so What do you think any other questions or how does all that sound? It sounds like a game plan. I'm gonna continue to do the research on them You said that it was the leap map. Yes LEP look it up help god.org has a really good Just like a lengthy document on what it is and it'll walk you through a lot of what I just told you But also partner up with your parents and anybody else who's part of her support system like We kind of all need to it's good for us all to be on the same page about this because auntie's not well, and we all know it Okay, so what can we do to try to get her the help she needs before she is institutionalized right? Yeah Thank you so much crystal you're welcome Give a shout out to my bestie. He was a long-time listener as well Meet the crystals couch and the read shout-out to you missy. I know you're listening. Hi She's she I don't even think I told her that I was gonna be on the couch, but I See and thank you so much Chris You are welcome. Thank you, and thank you to missy for putting you on to the shows So yes good luck and and make sure you look more into that leap method and share it with her other loved ones All right, babe. Thank you so much talk later Bye Bye Oh, man, you guys it's just when when our friends and family our other loved ones have very serious Mental illnesses that they are not ready to acknowledge that can be so so challenging, so I am wishing Arya And their family the best of luck in dealing with that going forward because it is extremely challenging Imagine setting your makeup then forgetting. It's even theirs meet new grippy setting mist from Mabelie, New York Gel to mist technology locks in your look for up to 24 hours with flexible all-day comfy grip No tightness no stickiness no residue just plum do we hydrated skin that still feels like your skin try new grippy setting mist from Mabelie, New York Maybe it's Maybelline Okay, let me see if we have time for another one. Hello Hi, how are you? I'm good for you. I'm good. Thank you. What's your name? Tina. Hi Tina. What's going on? Yeah, so my Situation involves me and my best friend Jay. We've been close friends since freshman year of high school and We're 25 now and I've moved out of state twice once for college from my career and Out of the handful of friendships. I've had since back then. She's probably been the most intentional about keeping our relationship alive And so this is stressing the importance of this issue that we're having Recently, I've been questioning how we can go forward and if it even looks like continuing the relationship altogether Makes sense there are really two issues one. I think I've come to terms with the fact that she's an alcoholic I witnessed her drive jump before and Once she pressing me into so many drinks that I myself blacked out and threw up for the first time in my life Though she did clean me up and could be home safe in that moment So that's the first thing that's going on and then to and probably the more pertinent issue last August She found out that her boyfriend of a year was sheeding And the next day she faced I mean and just casually described beating him up out of his sleep and Basically assaulting him for hours while his mom and sister were home about to call the police on her They were in that altercation for so long as she'd done to the side of her car body slamming him into it. Oh, goodness. Yeah He was trying to restrain her and she told me that he never hit back and as much as he ain't shit for cheating on her I do believe that and so I really didn't know what to do with this image of her and flicking so much violence on a partner like that And I told myself it'd be okay as long as she never spoke to him again But we're now a year later and they're still together quote-unquote They're still talking daily. They're still spending weekends and holidays and birthdays together. We're still having six When I asked her why this is going on recently. She says she just hasn't made any real friends like me since high school and doesn't really want to be alone And I understood that empathetically, but I also felt like it was in a form of a dig as though she was blaming me for moving away and that if I had been there there would be More space for her to leave these situations that are quite toxic, you know And so I'm scared there's more violence possible in this relationship and that she might not even tell me otherwise to avoid my reaction And so my question is after a year of not saying things to her beyond kind of making Clear facial expressions that this makes me uncomfortable. Do I even have the right to bring this up? And then if I do how should I or should I kind of just let the relationship fade naturally? I only really see her now once or twice a year when I visit family back home So I'm just in a difficult position trying to figure out what that should look like. Right Well, first I want to address I think I heard you say that you kind of felt like when she said well I haven't really made that many close friends other than you since high school and I don't really want to be alone I think I heard you say that you felt like that was maybe kind of coded or backhanded like Like the message there being if you had never left and maybe she would have never done this is that my understanding? Yeah, like it's come up before
in other situations where maybe she's had a falling out with friends since we've all graduated high school, where she'll kind of jokingly say, like, I wish you guys were home of all our mutual friends who left hometown. I wish you guys were home. I wish we were all together. I hate being in situations like this where I'm meeting people who are shitty, you know? So I think hearing that a couple of times now over the past couple of years has started to ring a little bit of sour around my end. Yeah, okay. So that makes sense then why you came to that conclusion. So I'll say first of all, it's never your responsibility to like, there's nothing you could have said or done to control her behavior. If so, she wouldn't be an alcoholic and she would not have beat on her partner the way she did after she found out, you know, about him cheating. So I just want to be really clear that like, if she is trying to, you know, sort of guilt you in that way, like, oh, you should have been here. That's pretty absurd because you are not in control of that grown woman, right? She, the things she says and does are completely up to her. And, you know, people, can I ask how old you all are? We're 25 now. 25, okay, so still pretty young. Sometimes people, people struggle to make friends for all kinds of reasons. But sometimes people lose all their friends and don't make new ones for a very, very good reason. And that's because they're challenging to be around. If your friend abuses alcohol and does reckless stuff like drinking and driving or becomes a violent or makes other thoughtless decisions like that, she pressures other people, she pressured you into drinking that sort of thing. Part of that is immaturity. You know, there's a lot of people your age who experiment and do things like that, but that doesn't make it acceptable behavior either. Now, onto the, as far as the issue of her, you know, being abusive towards her partner, you get to decide what you're comfortable with in, as far as like the traits that your friends have. And although I can understand being upset over finding now your man cheated on you and I can even understand, you know, smacking him out of his sleep when you went through his phone. I'm saying that's okay, but I can understand something like that. Beating his ass for hours and denting the car and his mama's about to call the cops and, you know, all the repercussions from that and then he's still, that is just a little too much for me, you know? Like that is, I don't think I could be comfortable calling someone a close friend or a best friend knowing that they treated someone like that. And not only did they treat someone like that, but when they talked about it, they acted like it was no big deal. And you know, oh, well, I just be his ass, you know, you just beat ass when you're mad, like whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa. No, no. And like you said, it may have been completely different if she never talked to him again, but the fact that they're still keeping up with, it doesn't sound like a relationship but maybe still sleeping together, spending time together. I can understand your concern as far as like, is this still happening or, you know, if this does happen again, not that it's about you, but you would quite naturally and I think rightfully feel away about it because you are so against domestic violence, right? Right. And that makes sense. So I think you said that you're wondering whether it is appropriate or okay for you to bring this up to her? Yeah, if it even makes sense to after so long and how would I even really go about it because one of our mutual friends co-signed everything and was like, girl, I'd do the same. And so I just feel like I'd be the outlier and that's really challenging that. And I don't even really talk to that mutual friend. I think I'll use mutual really loosely there. But yeah, I'm just trying to figure out if it's even worth it or if I should recognize this as a sign that we're maybe going to part. Yeah. Well, a lot of people don't take abuses seriously when it's a woman abusing a man, which is complicated and fucked up. But, you know, not a burden that you have to carry. It may be that you're simply outgrowing these friends that you're like, you know, as this frontal lobe starts to come together, I'm feeling like the excessive drinking and the act of like it don't mean nothing to put our hands on our partners is just really not the kind of person I want to be and not the kind of company I want to keep. I think it's more than okay to bring it up and the fact that you're waiting a year to do it, I mean, one might say, oh, well, why would you wait a year? And another person might say, well, you really sat with this for a year and like, you tried to be okay with it for an extended amount of time. You tried to see her side of it. You tried to like come to terms with it and after all this time, it still makes you deeply uncomfortable. So I think that shows that you really tried to give this a chance. You didn't rush to just cut her off immediately in the aftermath, you really sat with this and the fact that it's still bothering you a year later, I think that means it's absolutely worth it to you because it's really bothering you. - Yeah. - Are you okay with not having this person be in your life anymore? - I think it, like, it makes me, it's a very heartbroken, heartbreaking thing to think about. We met each other so long ago. And again, she's really been very attentional about maintaining the friendship. And I think it's hard to like imagine it, honestly, 'cause in a lot of ways, like she's been there for me, I've been there for her, our families are, know each other to an extent. Like, I think it's just really hard to imagine, but I also recognize that like if I don't really see signs of anything really changing, if I know this person as well as I do, I also know that she can be quite stubborn. And I just fear what any registered me judging her, in any way, it might even like escalate a situation or where we'd have a back and forth that we've had had in like a really long time, like we've never really had like a serious conflict for real since high school, honestly. And I think that's probably due to the distance, but also because I haven't, we haven't had too many instances where those conflicts could arise. We were often trying to make the most of the time we had together back home. So yeah, it sounds like you two have been friends for at least a decade and through some really pivotal moments, you know, that adolescents high school time, where we're finding out who we are and finding out where we belong and our, you know, our sense of community and branching out from our parents in that way. That, yeah, those friendships, sometimes they're lifelong and you end up connected to those people forever. And sometimes after high school, you start to drift apart and the older you get, the more you understand why that drifting is occurring. How do you think she would react if you said, you know, I just wanna talk to you about what happened with your man last year, like, I just, it really bothered me the level of violence that went on in that situation. How do you think she would react to that? - I think, unfortunately, she would be a little defensive especially 'cause I'd be bringing it up so late. And I think she would affirm again that they're not together anymore and this is just what it is. Like, she's actively trying to date outside of them and nothing has really come to fruition with that. So it just feels like, I feel like a reaction will be a little bit dismissive, a little bit defensive. - Okay, I'm just not really wanting to engage with me seriously. And I think if she were to try to engage with me seriously, it would be, I think it would be her into that space of I'm grown, you can't really, like, tell of myself. - Yeah, okay. Let's talk a little bit more about her alcohol usage. Is she still drinking heavily or is that something that was kind of like more in the past? - It's pretty consistent. Like, it's, I think when we do catch up, she's pretty consistent about going to the club, going to the bars, getting lit, like doing the whole thing. And not to, again, not to say that I don't do the same and I don't even think it's a matter of tolerance. It's just like, I just don't actively try to get in drunk and she's explicitly told me that is her goal when she gets out in these spaces. - Oh, Lord. - Yeah. - Okay. Is she just getting drunk or is she getting drunk and is the drunk driving also happening regularly or is that like,
a one-time thing. I think it's safe to assume now that it's pretty regular. Okay. Okay. At least twice now. She's had some near accidents accidents. Oh my goodness. Yes. And I thought to myself, okay, she's also working a lot. Maybe she's tired. It's the end of the week. Sometimes the clubs leave in the club. I leave in the space out of the other chamber. It can't get crazy, but no, I think if I'm really facing myself, I think it's definitely related to the alcohol use pressure. Yeah. I mean, and in the age of Uber and Lyft and all other kinds of rideshare services, it's really, I mean, I understand that those are a significant cost, but it's nothing like a DUI or what it would take to repair a car or what would happen if she took someone else's life or permanently injured herself or took her own life. The risks of driving drunk are so severe that I think it's worth it to talk to her. Maybe. So the thing is, anytime you talk to somebody about a problematic behavior, it's very likely that you're going to run into defensiveness. That's why I always recommend approaching it from a place of concern. You've probably heard me say that before of a place of like, I'm worried about you instead of like, bitch, what are you doing with your life? I would approach it more like, I understand wanting to go out and get drunk. I also enjoy a little rubbing coke in the club. I'm all for that as well, but it's really a problem, sis, to get behind the wheel and go home. I don't want to lose you. I'm scared that you might decide to drive home after the club one night and I never get to see or talk to you again. Now, if she still responds to that, you know, with anger or like, girl, don't worry about me, my own business, blah, blah. Then you can decide whether you would like to take a step back emotionally from this relationship. But it sounds like, are these like your two main issues with her or are there other things that are popping up in your friendship that don't really feel aligned? Those are the two main things. I think they've like fed other ways that when I usually would like think about her more throughout the week and reach out, I've noticed that happening less. Yeah. And I think that even when she is the one to do that on her end, I don't feel as excited or as like eager. Yes. Yes. Yes. So to me, that sounds like you've been trying to ignore the fact that you don't feel good about certain dynamics of this friendship, but your body and mind and spirit still feel this way about the friendship. Like, you're uncomfortable with the decision she makes when she drinks. You're uncomfortable with the domestic violence and that is perfectly understandable. So I think you have to say something about it so that you're honoring the fact that you don't like this. It's great to have friends, all of our lives friends who have seen us through all these different kinds of seasons, but we can't abandon ourselves and what we know is right or true or good in the pursuit of keeping a friendship that may not be. It may be that the two of you were supposed to be super close in this period through, you know, high school and very young adulthood. And maybe she's not meant to come along with you to that next stage, which is sad, but you won't really know unless you, unless you sort of bring up the energy and the bravery really to say, hey, I'm worried about you and I'm wondering if we can talk about some of the things that have been going on because I'm afraid of the repercussions here. Like again, she may still react poorly and then you can say to yourself, okay, you know, maybe I don't reach out this week. Maybe, maybe, you know, you're on my mind and I don't reach out to check in or you call me and I don't answer that call, you know, maybe instead of every other day or every weekend, you know, that sort of thing. Maybe now I talk to you once or twice a month. And if she asks you, well, I feel like you being funny was going on. You can say, well, I told you that, you know, I'm concerned about you with the drinking and driving, the amount that you're drinking. I'm concerned about, you know, the way that you were physically violent towards your boyfriend, things like that. And you kind of just told me to my my business. So I've been minding my business, you know, like when people tell you, oh, I don't want your help. I don't need your concern. It's okay for you to then say, okay, well, you know, I brought it up because I genuinely do care about you, but you're an adult and I can't make you do anything. So sometimes we do have to distance ourselves emotionally from certain dynamics so that we can move on and really do what's best for us. But because you all have been friends for so long, I do think it's worth it to to find the courage to have this conversation and see where it might go. Would it be best to do that in person the next time? Yeah, yeah. I think it's absolutely best to do it in person because even even face, I mean, FaceTime is better than a regular phone call, regular phone calls are better than text messages, but there's just something about sharing space with another person where they can really see, you know, and and feel us. They can feel our vibe, they can feel our energy, they can feel our presence and we can feel theirs. So I would say if you two are going to see each other in person, I would definitely take some time where it's just the two of you, you know, we don't need an audience, we're not trying to embarrass her. But yeah, bringing it up again from a place of concern and not judgment. Because even young people who drink to excess and, you know, decide to get behind the wheel, they're normally drinking for a reason, you know, there's some kind of pain there underneath that they're trying to cover up that they may not even be aware of. Yeah. Yeah. That makes sense. Thank you, Crystal. You're welcome, Tina. And I hope the conversation goes well. Thank you. Send me an email. Let me know how it goes. I will. All right. Thank you. Bye. Yes, sometimes we are in situations with friends where we don't really know how to handle that dynamic. It's like, yeah, you grown, but I don't really know what to do here. I'm worried about you. I don't like this. How do I approach it? And when they're a really good friend and we feel like the relationship is worth saving, we just got to come at them with all, you know, empathy and compassion, but also not refusing to acknowledge the things that we know are bothering us. All right, guys, that is going to wrap up this week's episode of Crystal Scotch. If you have a question for me, please send me an email at
[email protected]. We'll see you next week.
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