(upbeat music) Hi and welcome to Crystal's Catch The Show where I answer your letters for advice and talk to the most interesting people in the world. Today we're welcoming back someone who truly embodies the spirit of this show, Dr. Joy Harden Bradford. She is a licensed psychologist speaker and the founder of Therapy for Black Girls, a platform that has become a trusted resource for black women navigating mental health, healing and self-understanding. Through her work, she's helped normalize therapy, expand access and create language for so many experiences that we struggled to name or didn't even know were real. She's also the host of the Therapy for Black Girls podcast where she continues to have thoughtful conversations about absolutely everything from relationships to boundaries to emotional wellness. Therapy for Black Girls is where I found my therapist and the last time Dr. Joy was here, the conversation resonated deeply with so many of you and today feels especially full circle to have her back as we join in together to take a live call. So whether you're new to her work or if you're already part of the community she's built, I am so excited to welcome her back to the show. Thank you, Dr. Joy, for rejoining me on the couch. Thank you for having me here. - How do you feel about taking a live call with me today? - I'm excited about it. - I'm excited. - I'm too, we're gonna see. Now we are still gonna get to a couple of your letters, but I wanted to see how Dr. Joy was like, you wanna do this? Let's see how this goes. Dr. Joy, when you think about the kind of conversations we're about to have, both in the letters and with the callers, what do you think people are needing the most? And you of course interact with listeners, we have all kinds of things going on. Do you think it's clarity, validation, accountability? What are the people needing the most that you can see? - That's a good question. I think validation and support right now, it just feels like there's so much going on right now, just in the world, and then we all have our own personal stuff happening. And so I think a lot of support and figuring out how to prioritize and manage, okay, what do I even tend to for? - Yes. - Is a lot of what I've been seeing. - So the validation for me feels like a tricky one, 'cause it's like where's the line between, I need somebody else to make this real or okay for me versus I can do that for myself. It's like we need some of it from the outside to a certain extent, but when we depend on it, that's when it can become a problem, right? - Yeah, yeah, I think it does cross the line when it feels like you can't make any decisions without somebody else saying like yes, that's a good one. But it's a skill, just like anything else we learn, right? And so I think it's okay to just need that at first, but eventually your voice has to be allowed. - Yes, and the goal is for you to build that up, so you're able to give it to yourself. - Right, this is why she's the licensed psychologist, yo. - All right, let's talk to Susan. Hi, Susan, welcome to the show. - Hi, how are you? - I'm good, thank you. Thank you for calling in the Crystal's couch. - Thank you for having me. - Of course, what's going on? - Okay, so I'm 33 years old and my whole life, I've been extremely avoidant when it comes to romantic relationships. Before meeting my husband, I never made it past the honeymoon stage, like I would end things before the novelty were off or things got too hard. And so six years ago when my husband and I got together it immediately felt different. Our chemistry was insane and it was the pandemic. I was making a lot of lifestyle changes and prioritizing my mental health. And our relationship moved really quickly. We said, I love you after a week and then moved in together after three months. And two years in, I found myself engaged and buying a house which were two things I'd really never seen for myself before. So from the beginning we've had two major issues. The first one is our communication is very challenging for both of us and it created a lot of conflict in like pretty much since the beginning. And then the second issue is that I've been unsure about having kids or like when I would want to have them and he's been a thousand percent sure he wants kids like his entire life and wants them as soon as possible. So we've had tons of conversations about both of these issues. We did weekly therapy for seven months and we really never made any progress or like saw much of a change in the relationship. And so for four years now like since we got married, I've been in this like cycle of indecisiveness where when things are going really badly and like every interaction feels strained, I start planning my escape, the avoidance. And then when things are going well or like we'll go through a phase where things feel a lot easier and I'll start to think like okay, maybe we can make this work, maybe I do want kids. So my question is is my gut telling me to end our marriage because it's what is best for me or is it telling me to end things because I'm avoidant and my default is to run away when things get hard. Well, I don't think I can answer why you're being, why you're feeling these things necessarily. But I do think it's interesting that you said you found yourself being engaged and buying a home and this sort of thing as opposed to we sat down, talked about it made a decision to do this. Almost like you stumbled into being married as opposed to consciously choosing to establish that kind of partnership. Does that sound accurate or no? - Yeah, I would say definitely like the buying the house was more his dream. Like I'd never really wanted to own a house. And then with the pressure of like him wanting to have kids, I sort of thought that like getting married and having the relationship be more serious would like motivate or like make me feel more secure, I guess. - Okay, but you haven't really seen that come to fruition. It sounds like things are still kind of up and down. - Yeah, I did reach a point about a year and a half or two years ago where I was like, okay, I'm Roddy and I got pregnant and I did have like two pregnancies and two miscarriages so and now I'm back to this space where I'm like, I just don't know if I ever want kids again. - Yeah, which is very fair. I mean, miscarrying even once can be very traumatic. So going through that multiple times is definitely something that puts a lot of women in a space of like, maybe I don't want to risk that again. You know, for physical and emotional reasons. - Dr. Joy, do you have any questions for Susan? - Yeah, I'm curious Susan, what do you feel like was not effective about the therapy? Like, why do you feel like there was never any progress me? - I guess I just wasn't like, I was bringing a lot of issues and like things that I wanted to see be different. And then he would never really tell me like any issues that he had with our relationship. And I felt like things would get better temporarily, but then they would sort of, we would just go back to our default. - Hmm, okay, okay, got it, got it. - What do things look like when the two of you don't agree? How do you disagree with each other? When we don't agree, I, we usually, we can talk about things, but I think I tend to kind of compromise and we kind of tend to like, even if we don't reach a resolution, we kind of just like move on. Yeah. - Kind of sounds like sweeping things under the rug and you just go along with it so that you're not arguing anymore? - Yeah, yeah, sort of like we, I just, we neither of us have the energy to continue arguing. - And has your husband been able to bring up issues that he has, I know you said in therapy, he wasn't really doing that, but has he been doing that outside of therapy? Like, is he able to talk to you now about what he's really feeling? - A little bit, a little bit. He, he'll tell me in private, but then in therapy, he's like, no, everything's great, you're my person, I have no issues. But then like, when I bring up like, when I sit down and I'm like, okay, we have these serious communication issues, it's like, well, you, you don't communicate well, either type of thing, like, defensiveness, but yeah, I feel like for him, he's just, his only issue is that like,
I'm not ready to have kids right now. Like if I were to concede on that or like decide that I was ready, he, it's like that's all that seems to really matter to him. - Well, I can understand being hesitant to bring children into a relationship where things don't feel stable or healthy anyway. So I think your reticence here is really understandable. - Can I ask how old you two are? - Yes, I'm 33 and he's 43. - Interesting. And you've been together for six years? - Yeah. - Okay. Well, that also adds another layer here for me. I'm thinking, I'm having some trouble coming up with reasons why y'all should stay together, honestly, not to just blurt it out like that, but it sounds like the communication here is really struggling and that maybe you don't, that I don't wanna put words in your mouth, but do you feel safe to disagree with your husband and let the disagreement sit there? Like, can you all just sit with the fact that you're not aligned on something and have that conflict just be? - Yes, but then it's like I want things to be better. I want some type of improvement or the communication, like portion for me. He, this is gonna sound bad, but he basically talks a lot. I'm very introverted and I'm an internal processor and I feel like he monologues or like talks at me a lot and sometimes like, it just depends on the situation or even like the mood. It seems like where some days I feel like I can bring stuff up and a lot of days I don't feel like I can do that. - Hmm. Yeah. Dr. Joy, what do you think? - Yeah, so Susan, you said you just want things to be better, what does better look like? Like, if you woke up tomorrow and things were better, what would be different? - So he would try to talk, I guess in a, like he would want to talk about things that I'm interested in or that we both find interesting instead of just like, I don't know, soccer and like international politics, which like those two topics are fine, but like it, sometimes it feels like that's all he wants to talk about and when I want to talk about my stuff, it's like he's not interested or like he turns it back to himself. So I guess like ideally things looking better would be like, him being super like interested in me or like asking me questions like about, like if I'm sharing a story like that he would ask me questions or comment on that story instead of just being like, oh yeah, that happened to me too in seventh grade and just like go off talking about whatever again. So yeah, I guess like having conversations that feel engaging and not like frustrating and draining and exhausting. And then like before we got married, I asked him if I was never ready to have kids like what would that mean? And he said at the time that he would choose me over over having kids, but that's not the case at all. Like that's, it's become very obvious that that's not the case. Like so ideally he would not be pressuring me to have kids and we would have a communicate like conversations that flowed and were pleasant for both of us. - Yeah, Susan, you're not asking for a lot. You know, like when you say somebody to be interested in me and have engaging conversations, I want you to know that that is not a lot. Like that's not an unreasonable ask for your partner to be interested in the things that you're interested in. Even if it's not really their thing, like they're interested because you're interested. So it's okay to have that ask. And I'm struggling with this idea of like the kids kind of being this thing that feels like a deal breaker because unlike a house that if you decide you want to do something different, the house can be sold that kind of decision cannot be made with kids, right? And so I would hate for you to be pressured into a decision which it feels like you have in like you've kind of gone along with buying the house and maybe even the getting married 'cause I don't even know that you saw that for yourself, right? And so I don't want you to be pressured into having kids if you are not absolutely certain that that is something that you want to do. - Yeah. - Yes, I agree wholeheartedly with Dr. Joy about that one. I think that it's hard to see a way forward when he's unwilling to be honest in therapy. You all have tried it. And he'll say things to you privately that he won't bring up with the therapist. That to me is a big red flag because how are you supposed to work through the issues if he's not willing to talk about it with the person who's licensed and qualified to help you do just that? - Yeah, that's a good point. - Yeah, I mean up to this point, the decisions you've made like Dr. Joy said, these are things that can be reversed or undone if that's really what you want to do. And it sounds like maybe you're thinking, well, I'm avoidant, I know how I am. It could just be that I'm scared and so I'm pushing him away. But as two people who don't know either one of you, I, you're not asking for too much what you're looking for in your relationship is absolutely something that should be present in any healthy dynamic between two people. And I agree with your decision to not bring children into the marriage while things still feel so uncertain. I think if your husband isn't willing to give an honest shot at couples counseling and really be completely raw and honest with the therapist with you present, you know, you two going through this process together, I don't see how the marriage can really get to a place where it feels secure enough for you to want to have children. - Yeah, yeah, all of that is very interesting and I agree. Yeah, 'cause the therapy, it's like we would go to therapy and he'd just be like, yeah, everything's great. And then when I'd be like, okay, but except that I am exhausted by every interaction we had this week and he's like, he's like, well, and like even this therapist would be like, well, is that an exaggeration though? And I was like, I don't know if it's an exaggeration. Like I feel like it's the case. Like I feel like no, like I don't, but in the moment I'm really bad. So about like saying what I actually think. So I'll be like, well, maybe I don't know like. - Well, sometimes people do that, don't they, Dr. Joyce? Sometimes we say it's always this. It's never that and we don't quite mean that. So sometimes that is true, but if you walk away feeling like the overwhelming majority of your interactions with your husband, leave you feeling drained, that's something important for us to really lock in on and try to work through, yeah. - Yeah. - So I think, yeah, it doesn't have to be exactly right. You don't have to get the language exactly perfect in order for your point to be made. - Yeah. - And then I guess it's normal though, too. Like if you, you have like a week where it's really bad and then you've got like the next week, it's like better, like a little bit better, to be like, oh, well, maybe like everything. Maybe I should just keep trying. - I mean, I think that there's normal, but I think, you know, it may be good for you to kind of do some journaling around like how often it is feeling okay and how often it's not. - Yes. - And maybe even like a little tally, not a, you know, scoreboard so to speak, but, you know, so that you actually have a record of how am I actually feeling on a day-to-day basis because when things are good, it's really easy sometimes for us to like forget about the times that did not feel so good. And so if you can go back to your records, so to speak, it'll help you to be clear about, okay, what's actually happening here and how often am I feeling okay in this relationship versus not? - Yeah, I agree. And I would hope that six years in, you're having longer periods of things feeling good and then you hit a rough patch for a couple of weeks, you work through it and then you go back to something that feels more stable. It sounds like you two are kind of up and down all the time, which is also exhausting. - Yeah. - Yeah. - Okay. - So I hope we've given you some things
to think about here. Do you have any other questions for us? No, I think that's helpful. Okay. Well, it's anything else you want to share with Susan. I just want to also share Susan, you come into that sometimes it's hard for you to know kind of how you really feel. And I think even like you, you know, talking with us today is an attempt for you to kind of get some other feedback about like, is this the right decision for me or not? And ultimately, it will have to be your decision. And I think it's important for you to know that it's okay to trust your decision. Like it's your life, you know, you best, you know your relationship best. And so whatever decision you end up making, you can be okay that I trust that this is the best decision for me. Even if other people disagree, you can trust that you are making the best decision for yourself. Yeah. How long do you have to like feel that it's the right decision to know that it's like, if I change my mind week to week, I'm like, well, maybe I don't know what it, I don't feel sure. Well, I think that's where the journaling and the sort of tallying comes into place. When you're feeling unsure, you can, you have this data to look at to help you back up whatever decision you want to make or whatever decision you, you think you may need to make. But even now in asking the question, it's showing that you're, that you're, you're sort of doubting yourself, but you're the architect of your life, and you get to decide what is tolerable. And what is it? Yeah. Okay. Yes. All right. Thank you. Thank you so much for calling into the show. I'm wishing you the best of luck in making your choices and trusting yourself. Thank you so much. All right. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. You know, Dr. Joy, I think we see this sort of thing pretty frequently with people who are in long-term relationships. And maybe they've never really investigated what's going on with themselves. And you know, you, you, you feel these strong feelings for someone. So marriage feels like the next logical step. But then you know, you're four or five, six years in and you're really starting to wonder like, do I know what I want to do? And how do I develop that ability to even trust my feelings when I've never done that before? Yeah. That could be hard. It is. And again, it's a skill, just like anything else. And even if you like make a decision and then you realize later, like, oh, that actually wasn't a great decision. Like you have to trust that you can recover and that you can have support that like will not shatter your world to pieces. You know, like that you can rebound after, you know, a decision that maybe wasn't the right one. You make the best decision you can at the time. Yes. And it's only. Yes. And it's only sometimes later that you realize, oh, that actually wasn't great or maybe it was a good decision. And then and now it's not that you can always make a different decision. Right. Yes. Not kids. You can't. You can't do that. But for most things, you can always make a different decision. Right. So and I'm wondering if, if, if a couple is in couples counseling and one person isn't being honest with the therapist, how can they move forward in that sort of situation like, do you see a way forward in therapy? And yes. And I don't think so. I mean, maybe with individual, but if you're not being forthcoming, that now there is probably a conversation that therapists can have around. Hey, it's come to my attention that you're not being honest. Like tell me what's going on. And maybe that opens the door to like a more honest conversation. But if long term, both people or however many people are involved in a counseling or not committed to being honest, then you, you know, it's not going to deal with any effective results. Right. And, you know, and I, I wonder if a person might hear that and feel even more defensive. Like, oh, no, I need to triple down on everything's fine. And I just feel like when people shut down in that way, yes, I think individual counseling is needed. And if they're not willing to do that, then it's like, we're, what, how much more and it's okay. Yes. It's okay. I mean, that's a scary thing to go to the stranger. And say some stuff that you maybe haven't even admitted to yourself. Oh, that's real. You know, so I mean, it could be that you're just not ready. And then maybe a little later, after some additional work or other things you might be ready to actually undertake therapy. But it's not the right choice for everybody at every time. You're right about that. Yeah. Okay. Well, we're wishing so's in the best, girl. This episode is sponsored by BetterHelp. If you could permanently delete one thing from your brain, what would it be? This might sound kind of silly. And in the grand scheme of my life, it probably is. But I did have a failed romantic encounter earlier this year that really triggered me in like my deepest places. And it's been harder than I thought it would debounce back from that. I let it take up way too much mental space for way too long before I finally just broke past the shame and talked to my therapist about it. And I'm very glad I did because now I'm definitely moving on and feeling better. But it was quite the emotional journey to get here. If you've been thinking about starting therapy, consider BetterHelp. They have thousands of licensed experience professionals who can help you work through whatever may be holding you back. BetterHelp does the initial matching work for you. 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number, but I haven't blocked her on social media. She hasn't reached out to apologize. Instead, she contacted my boyfriend and told him that she ended up in the hospital that night because our heart rate was 203. She didn't acknowledge what she said to me or take any accountability. What's messing with me is that I don't even talk to her much about my personal life. I let her into that space because I trusted her. And now I feel like she saw me as a project instead of an equal or like my diagnosis is something she owns. I don't miss her, but I miss who I thought she was. How do you grieve a best friend who still alive, but no longer emotionally safe for you? And how do you move forward without feeling like trusting them was a mistake? Thanks, Leonard. Wow. That's quite intense because I would think as an NP, you would be very mindful about disclosing that sort of even this is obviously not your patient. But to say something like even if you have been drinking, to say something like that is alarming to me. It's very alarming. A lot of this letter felt intense. I was all I found myself wondering like, oh, where are we going next? What's happening? It felt very intense, which I'm imagining is also how Leonard is feeling around the whole breakup. And you know, this is a huge betrayal, of course. And so you are very right to be grieving the laws, but also very upset about the fact that your friendship was betrayed and you're, the professionalism was betrayed. She wasn't your clinician, like she knew this information. It was a part of her practice. And so it is a huge betrayal. So you are valid in whatever it is that you're feeling. And you know, I think when friendships end for whatever reason, it can be really, really hard because there's a lot of ritual around like endings around like romantic relationships or like somebody dies. Like you people kind of know what to do and how to support you. People don't often know how to support you after a friendship. It's like they will say things like, oh, you have other friends. It's fine or she wasn't a good friend anyway, but it doesn't actually help you to agree. Not at all. And so I think it is really important to find some place where people will acknowledge that this was a very big loss. And you are okay to be hurt and embarrassed and feeling betrayed that this relationship has ended in the way that it did. Yes. But I also think I heard you say, I'm grieving who I thought this was, which is an additional type of grief like this idea of this image that you had created that didn't actually match reality. But I also think it gives room to find somebody to feel that lane who is actually that person you thought she was. You know, so being able to, you know, set aside like, hey, this really hurts and I'm going to allow myself to feel the grief of the, the ending of this relationship, but also being hopeful that there's other people that can step into that place and support you in the ways you thought that she actually did. Right. I feel like there's, there's a lot here with the friends behavior. And I'm not trying to justify it or come up with reasons why she may have behaved that way because ultimately she should have never spoken to you this way is so inappropriate. And if you actually were her patient, you would have grounds to take this a lot further. But the betrayal, I think, is what would really be sticking with me in this situation. Like, you're my best friend. I trusted you with this diagnosis. Something that, you know, bipolar too for a lot of people still carries a lot of shame. There's a lot of stigma around it. So to have your friend kind of throw that out in a crowded bar for the whole world to hear it. I think it just sounds devastating. Like I, I fully understand the grief. And I think Dr. Joy gave you some great advice here with, you know, connecting with people who you can talk to and be open with about it. But it's hard with regret because Leonard also said, how do I move for without feeling like this was a mistake to trust them. And I think that's trickier because I, on the one hand, I'm like, we're all only human, you know, and you have these feelings. If I was diagnosed with something like, I mean, if I was diagnosed with, you know, something medically wrong, I have a best friend who's a physician. I would absolutely talk to her about that. So, you know, it's like if she then turned around and threw that in my face, it's like, we've been best friends since high school. So I could have never seen that coming. Why would I then beat myself up for the decision to do it? But it's hard not to feel that regret. Yeah. Yeah. How do you manage that? Yeah. I mean, it's so tricky. It's a very natural feeling. I think that the hard part is there to not let that inform how you respond to new people. Oh, yes. On the other side of this is like, oh, I trusted somebody before and that didn't work out well. So now I can't trust anybody. Yeah. And so I think it kind of is what we talked about with Susan, like you made the best decision you could with the information you had. And the betrayal was hers, not yours. Oh, right. And so you can't take ownership for the thing that they did. It is important for you to know that everybody will not betray you in that way. And that you had no control over knowing that this was going to happen. Right. And don't we see that in relationships too with like breakups and it's like, oh, I'm devastated. How could I have trusted this person? Why did I believe the things you said? Why did I let myself develop these feelings for you? And I think that's sort of natural in the immediate aftermath after a relationship ending, but it's so important to not let that keep us from opening our hearts to future encounters, although when you're going through it, it very much feels like, why would I ever set myself up to feel like this again? And that's how you know you're not ready. Yeah. So saying jump out there and go try to find a new best friend immediately. Okay. You do have to allow yourself to grieve this law and say, heal. And you will know, I think you will know you're ready to kind of put yourself back out there when it doesn't feel like, oh, I'm not signing up for that again. Okay. Yes. Okay. Leonard, we're wishing you the best again, really important behavior. I and the fact that she reached out to your boyfriend, not to you and never took accountability for what she said. She's got deeper stuff going on that has nothing to do with you. And I hope you don't internalize her behavior as that being something wrong with you because it really was not. Don't know what don't know what is going on in her mind, but she certainly should have known better at my at my drunkest, at my most lit. And again, I was only ever a student practitioner. And yet all of that information about my clients and things along that that is under a lock and key. It is in the deepest possible safe in the furthest recesses of my mind. It's the last thing that would come out. Right. So a best friend like she that's her burden, not yours Leonard. So wishing you the best of luck. All right. I have one more for you. This is from Lydia. Lydia says, I'm a 28 year old black woman feeling completely lost about my next move. I have a bachelor's in English and started teaching last year, but I'm not certified. And honestly, I don't even like it. I applied for a teaching residency to move out of state and start fresh, but I didn't get in and that rejection really shook me. Now I'm questioning everything. I've only stayed in teaching to get my masters and lower my student debt, but deep down, I know that this was never my passion. It was more my parents. I'm considering three options, teaching English abroad, transitioning into instructional design, or just getting certified and sticking it out. I've also thought about going back to school, but I don't even know for what. How do you pivot with no money, limited job opportunities, and the pressure to have a real career before 30? Sometimes I feel as if I wasted my degree, even though my family says the opposite, but I have no idea how to find what's actually for me. Thanks, Lydia. So Lydia, first of all, do not go back to school. That is not going to be the way. School. We love the degree. We love the degree. We do. Thinking that that's going to be the answer and it probably is not at least right now because you don't know, right? So unless there's some free program, like do not take any additional dance to try to figure it out, you know, and it sounds like you do not want to actually teach. Like I hear you, you said at least twice, like I don't like this. This is not my passion. So I think it's okay to let that go, right? Like realizing that you are walking in somebody else's dream and not your own, I think is a really powerful experience, and it's important to listen to that. So I wouldn't encourage you to keep walking down that path all now that you've realized I actually don't like this. Right. Instructional design sounds like a very close first cousin, and if it is something that you want to try, it feels like it could be something you could do without any additional training. Like it feels like, okay, now that you know how to teach, you can also now figure out how to teach somebody else how to teach. Right? And so it feels like that may be the safest thing to explore, but I also want you to keep yourself open to trying out other things that you don't even know that might be interesting to you, right? So it sounds like you've only played in the education space. So what would it look like to, you know, try some photography? Or do you like social media content creation? Do you like cooking? Like is there some other thing that you could try that might be a path to a career option that you don't even know as on the board? But I understand you got to keep the lights on, right? And so instructional design feels like, okay, maybe you could dabble in that to actually, you know, have some income while you're also taking some time to figure out, okay, what is really my passion would like to be up? Right. My little brother is around your age, Lydia, and he also has a bachelor's degree in English. And he just thought, Oh, I'll teach. And then he was like, Oh, no, I actually hate this. And now he's like a liquor distributor. You can do it. Whatever. It doesn't matter. You know, this English degree, you can do all kinds of things. I would, I love this advice from
Dr. Joy, I would say think back to classes you took an undergrad was there anything that surprised you like one for me was technical writing. I did not think I would enjoy that I really loved my technical writing class where you learn to write for like manuals and things other people, you know, they receive but they never read somebody writes those and as someone who reads the manual for everything I really appreciate it. And I enjoyed that class. So maybe you think back like what did I. What did I take an undergrad, which is the purpose of underwear? That's why you take all these different classes to get a little exposure to lots of different things. What did I take that I might want to pursue further a lot of career paths just require you to have some degree and it doesn't matter which one so. You may be able to find something you're really interested in in that way, but I also heard you say, you know, I'm feeling this pressure to have a real career before I turn 30 and I would. I would really encourage you to question that where does that come from and why are you putting that burden on yourself, especially in this economy. Maybe look around America's burning. Any job is incredible at this point. But also teaching is such a special field and if you're not passionate about it, you're probably not doing the best possible job you could with those kids. And you know, the burnout happens even for teachers who love it and you know, it is what drives them. So for you is you know, you've only been teaching for a year and you're already like, I absolutely hate this get out of that classroom. Get out of that classroom and open up your mind to other possibilities, doing things that maybe you never considered before and work on releasing that pressure to have things look a certain way. Before you turn 30, whose milestone is that who told you you had to have it together by the end. I didn't start my career in podcasting till I was 31 or 32 and I mean, that was never even supposed to be a career. No, I literally stumbled into it and now it's what I do full time. So I think you're limiting yourself unnecessarily. There's a whole wide world out here. Exactly. Yeah, I really think it's important to let go of this pressure because those are artificial milestones set by random people. And it's important for you to think about okay, what is my path? How do I want to kind of show up in the next five to 10 years and that may look very different than what you ever thought? But I think just trying different things will be the key to getting you a little closer than you are now. Yes. So what do you say to people who hear that and they say, but I don't even know what I like. I don't even know what I enjoy. I don't even know what I would be interested in. Yeah, I think you just try stuff. Like I think going to a community college or like, you know, they have these like, what are they called? Like random, like, it's not a satellite class, but like a week long. Oh, yes. Kind of thing like a workshop, like an immersive sort of workshop. Yeah, I'm saying community colleges, but I would imagine like libraries might also have these. Yes. But you can kind of drop in and even YouTube University, you know, like watching different things or course error. Like all these platforms where you can like try out a lot of different stuff. You won't know until you just try random things, even things that don't sound remotely interesting. You like watch a 30 minute video and then it's like, oh, okay, that's not actually my thing, you know, but it will be trial and error to figure out, okay, what is actually my thing? Yes, I think for a lot of us, it's although there are so many job opportunities on the internet. Sometimes you need to put that phone down and go out in the world. Sometimes it is these phones, girl. You've had to take a look like what, what free classes are in my area? What are, you know, what is the city putting on something? Like just what can I get involved with creatively? Do you have friends who are doing, you know, maybe you have a friend who's a DJ and could use an assistant and party or, you know, little things like that. Where you just, you tap into your network, you tap into your city and what's available to find something that makes you feel more energy than what you feel for teaching. Because you sound, when I say miserable as a teacher, baby, you said, I straight up did this because they get rid of some of your student loans when you teach. And that's why like you all went into it and that's where it is, but, you know, you said yourself, this was your parents passionate isn't yours. So try to tap into yourself and figure out what it is that you actually care about. I also want to just add that you're, the thing you do to keep the lights on does not have to equal the thing that you are most passionate about. Oh, so true. Right. You know, like we just got to do what we got to do, like we live in America. So you're going to have some income. You do. Yeah. So, I mean, so you could do a thing just to kind of say you have some income, but that may not be the thing that actually is what gives you the most money, but it could give you an incredible amount of joy. And so I think just finding something to keep the lights on, but also exploring like we've already talked about is really the key to it is. Yes, back in my day, we called it a side hustle. And something you do at your part time that is when when your passions don't pay the bills. Yeah, I mean, and maybe teaching will become more enjoyable for you when you know you have something else to do that really fulfill a maybe not and don't sound like it, but I'm just saying, but I'm saying, yeah, there are a lot of people are working a nine to five to keep the lights paid and then doing fun things nights weekends in their off time that, you know, keep them feeling alive and like, they serve because this is what capitalism will do. We'll suck the life right out of it. Don't get me started. Dr. Jordan, you have time for me to get on my anti-capitalist, but I feel like that was something I saw a lot as a student was people being like, I'm so unfulfilled in this job, but how am I going to pay the mortgage without and it's like, well, damn, you not like, and this is not an economy to be leaving a job and going to pick up and like, times are hard. So we're trying to to find the joy wherever we can. And it sounds like you've got to find your joy. So, wishing you the best of luck, Lydia. Thank you for emailing Dr. Joy. It's been my pleasure to have you back on the couch again. Please tell the people where they can find you in your incredible work. Yeah, so you can find me all across the internet at Hello, Dr. Joy, and then you can check out all of the resources we have available at therapy from blackgirls.com. That is going to wrap up this week's episode of Crystalscatch. Follow us online at Crystalscatch. And if you have a question for me, send me an email,
[email protected]. We'll see you next week.
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