Session 149: Billy Eichner

[MUSIC] His new memoir, Billy on Billy, is out now. Please welcome to the show, The Legendary Billy Eichner. >> Hi. >> Hi. >> Therapist. >> Therapist. >> We need it last. >> We meet at last. >> [LAUGH] >> You know, we actually met on the worst night of my life. >> Oh, was that the worst night of your life? >> So far. >> Okay, you're young. It'll get worse. >> I know. >> I know, you don't think it will, but it will. >> I know. >> It wasn't terrible though. >> But the way that you know exactly what I'm talking about. >> Oh, I guess that's a good point. >> [LAUGH] >> But we met at a fun location. >> That was so fun. I mean, I had a ball there. >> Yes, that party. >> That party was quite fun. >> Quite fun. >> Quite fun. >> Yeah. >> Do you prefer LA or New York? >> I'm a New Yorker. >> Uh-huh. >> Like you, I grew up here. >> I know. >> I don't mind LA. >> You spend, well, I guess most of your career has been here, right? >> Almost everything I've ever shot here except Parks and Recreation. >> Mm-hm. >> And American Horror Story was an LA. >> American Horror Story. Oh, yes. Were you a Glee fan? >> I did like Glee, but I was older already. I'm much older than you. >> How old are you? >> 48. >> Okay. >> Yeah. >> You were like, oh, you really are. >> Well, I was just because we had a **** in the show and she was like, your 20s suck, your 30s are great, your 40s suck, your 50s are great. >> You know what? That is, I'm relieved to hear that because I agree. >> Okay. >> And I'm in my 40s and, yeah, it's different than I thought. >> What's different than I thought? >> I thought early 40s was actually just felt like an extension of my 30s. And I think in your early 40s, you're kind of wanting to prove to yourself that like, nothing's changed. >> Right. >> You know what I mean? It's still like my 30s, which it was. And then mid 40s and up feels different. You've lived a while so you can look back on all the things that went right and wrong. And you've got time ahead of you, but you really need to make use of that time. >> Right. >> So time starts feeling fleeting. >> Yes, you can feel time more a little bit. You can feel the pressure of time. >> But did you think you felt that way in your 20s, but you actually look back and you're like, I can't believe I felt that way? >> I think I really wanted to be successful and was just kind of worried about like, oh God, is my life going to be okay? >> Yeah. >> But I didn't feel that, oh, I had to be successful by 30 or else it was over. >> Right. >> I felt like I had time. I was good at romanticizing the struggle of being trying to be a professional artist or actor, whatever I am. >> Right. Professional artist and actor. >> Yeah. >> Does that make sense? >> How old are you? >> Do you want guests? >> You're 27. >> I'm 26. >> 26. >> But I turned 27 in a few weeks. >> They're so young. >> Well, lately I've felt young. >> You are young. >> I didn't know you started Billy on the street when you were 32. >> Well, it started before that in my 20s in my live show. >> Right. >> Which you didn't see in very few people saw here in New York. >> Before YouTube even existed. >> It was a stage show. >> I had a stage show called Creationation where I, that's where the Billy on the street persona developed live on stage. And then I said to my friend who was directing the show who I went to college with. I said, you know, people in the audience seem to like when I do this guy and I'm getting like very angry about pop culture. >> Uh-huh. >> And I'm bringing this kind of irrational urgency and intensity to pop culture topics. I said, what if we go out on the street and I do this to people? Because I grew up in New York like you. So I know you're on the street in New York. You're walking around with blinders on, right? >> Yes. >> That's really acknowledging other people. >> Yes. >> And so I thought, what if I break that rule and force someone who's like rushing to the subway or to get on the bus or going to daycare or their job or the gym and just make them talk to me about whether or not Kate Winslet would win the Oscar. >> Right. >> You know, like bring in that amount of intensity to these pop culture topics. That's how it started. And I would cut together videos with my friend Jamie to show on a screen. We would project them on a screen that this theater I performed in in New York had a screen. And that's before you to even started. I think the first billionth street style video I made was in 2004. >> Wow. >> So I am how old at that point, 25? >> Okay. >> Like that. >> And then the TV show, it took about seven years of kind of pounding the pavement literally and figuratively. And then I, Billy on the street becomes, it starts to go viral around 2010. And then the TV version happens in 2011. >> So you, but you, that persona in Billy on the street, that, you don't think that's you? >> No, not at all. >> Okay, so that was interesting for me to read. I thought that was like -- >> I know, people still think this. I thought that was like you. >> Well, it's inspired by, you know, this kind of obsession with entertainment that I had since I was a kid. >> Yes. >> So it really was kind of satirizing my own feelings about entertainment. But I would, it's always so surprising to me, people for years. There's still, you know, and I've done many other things, but they're still very surprised that it's not -- >> I was surprised. >> Yeah. >> I think it's because what I grew up in is like everyone that go, like when you go viral on TikTok or it's for exactly as you present. >> It's you. >> Yeah, right. >> It's like I wasn't making up these characters or anything. >> That makes perfect sense. >> Yeah. >> But I didn't grow up in a world of influencers. >> Uh-huh. >> We didn't have social media, like what you do did not exist when I was in my 20s, right? And so I was being a performer in my -- you know, I went to theater school, I went to Northwestern, I came back to New York to try to be an actor on Broadway. And off Broadway, but that really wasn't happening. And so I started writing and performing comedy as a way to just get an agent, honestly, because people thought I was funny. And then on stage, I developed, I evolved into this character, basically. You know, to me it was the same as like Sasha Barron Cohen doing a Borat. >> Right. >> But I wasn't doing a wacky accent or putting myself in a wacky costume and changing my name. So I think that's another reason why people think it's me because I always said I'm Billy Eichner and I'm on Billy on the street. >> Right. >> Right. But I always thought it was kind of clear to most people that I was doing what we used to call like a stick. >> Yeah. >> You know? >> No, we still have sticks. >> We still have sticks. >> Yeah. >> I would -- I do sticks sometimes. >> Do you? >> Like some -- well, like all -- no. >> Are you? >> Do you feel that the Jake that we all see is this exactly you? >> Like, unfortunately, yes. >> Okay. >> So, like, that's my -- like, that's what I was like, oh, okay. Like, you know what I mean? >> I think that's a generational thing. >> Yeah, I was like, oh, like, the Jake I present. I mean, I don't know, Louise. Would you say that this is who I am? Oh, she said -- she said, let me get her mine. >> Extremely, extremely. >> Yeah. >> Okay. Well, that's -- yeah. Yeah, for me, it wasn't. For me, I had created this character, but was using my own name. And the reason I kept using my own name, and because I didn't want to change my last name, or be in a wacky costume, is because I wanted people to know that these interactions were real. >> Right. >> And I didn't want people on the street that I was going up to, because all of that is completely real. Unstage. Like, we've never cast a person in advance. One of that has ever been scripted at all. >> You can tell. >> Yeah. And that's why it works. I think why people like it. And I didn't want to go up to a New Yorker in some wacky costume. Because then they're going to know, like, this guy's a clown. >> Right. >> Right. >> I wanted them to think it's -- I'm trying to have a serious interview. >> Do you have a favorite belly on the street moment? There are so many I love. I mean, when I got to the point where we could have other actors and people that grew up loving on the show, I'm sure you've had similar experiences like Amy Poler and -- >> Didn't Seth Meyers do? >> Seth Meyers and Will Ferrell and -- >> David Letterman did it, right? >> David fucking Letterman. >> Yeah. >> That was huge for me because I grew up watching him and worshiping him. And also Dave, you know, at that point had kind of stopped doing segments like that. >> Yeah. >> His producers told me that when Dave did Billy on the street, he hadn't done a segment in the field as they say in years. >> Right. >> But in the 80s, when I would watch his show at 1230 on NBC before he even was out on an 1130, he started at 1230. He was doing a lot of on the street stuff with New Yorkers. >> Interesting. >> Oh, yeah. He was way ahead of me on that. He was my inspiration and I just loved his sensibility so much. So the fact that he was willing to be on the street with me. And I remember we were walking around Chelsea. I think it had maybe been a minute since David Letterman was just kind of strolling around. And I remember we were walking around Chelsea and he was like, oh, that's the Chelsea hotel. And I was like, yeah, Dave. >> Yeah. >> That's the Chelsea hotel, you know what I mean? >> Yeah. >> We shot with Mariah Carey. >> How is that? I love Mariah Carey. >> I mean, she's the best. She's so funny. >> And she's also a New Yorker. >> Yeah. >> Up until recently, Mariah actually lived not far from here. I don't know if she sold it yet or not. She's a real New Yorker and she actually, when she, before her career took off, I think she lived in Chelsea actually. When she was first starting to write songs, I think so. If you listen to her book, she talks about it. >> Okay. >> Her book is major. >> I never read her. What's it called? >> Listen to it because she-- >> She reads it. >> It's called the meaning of Mariah Carey. I believe. >> Yeah. reads it. She does it like impressions of Aretha Franklin, but which are really, really funny. She does impressions. She sings a little bit, but she also talks about her parents in a very honest, very moving way. It's serious. I don't read, so I appreciate your book as audio only. My book is audio only. Right, exactly. But yeah, Mariah shot with me. We once did a segment with Michelle Obama. I remember that. And Big Bird was there. And you didn't give her the questions before though. No, we did not. That was my one stipulation because she was the first lady at the time. Yeah, they were still in the White House. And you know, I think they were used to for things like this. You know, they all wanted to make sure she was prepared and all of that. And I said to them, I was like, look, she couldn't be out on the street with me for security reasons. That I understood. But I said, we cannot script this out because everyone's going to be able to tell. It needs to keep the spontaneity of Billy on the street. So I completely understand that you're the first lady of the United States. And you're like, a beloved figure to me and many others. But in order for it to work and to really breathe and be the show that you like, we can't plan it all out in advance. And we did not. And it was amazing. And it was good. And then when did you know it was time to end the show? I did five seasons of the TV show, which is like, you know, we're doing 10 or 12 half hour episodes every year. And then mix that with all the stuff before even it was even on TV. Years of doing it before, whether or not people saw it, I was doing it, you know. And like I said, for me, it is a very much a character. Yeah. You know, and I didn't start out really wanting to be a comedian. I liked comedy. I liked comedy movies. I liked comedy. I like sitcoms and things. But I wasn't someone who ever wanted to do a stand up tour. You know what I mean? So I wanted to carve out time for me to try other things, to try to get back to being the type of actor that I initially started out wanting to be. Like I said, I went to theater school. I went to Northwestern. It's kind of a serious theater program, you know, not to sound pretentious. Isn't it? It's that. That's the most serious one. That and Carnegie. There are other. I mean, there's Northwestern has graded a lot of things. It's obviously not just at theater school, but oh, there's a man. There's Juliard and there's a million places. But you know, I took it very seriously. And like I said, I just wanted to do theater. And so I knew I could keep Billy on the street going forever. I also knew practically speaking that, you know, the world was changing. Like things, everything was moving online. And I knew people were mostly watching Billy on the street from seeing the clips online. Yeah. So I thought two things. Number one, I'm killing myself spending 10 months of the year to make half hour episodes. And then people watch a two minute clip online. So I can probably still keep that going online and also open up my schedule to do other types of things. Right. So that's what I did. Interesting. Yeah. There is something I want to ask you about Madonna. Love. I love Madonna as well. I've never gotten like a proper intro to her. First of all, are you happy with her album? It's so good. It is really good. No, let me, let me ask you. Now, I am the core Madonna audience. Okay. I'm a 48 year old gay man who, you know, when like a virgin came out, you know what that is? Yes. No, but I get a lot, I get a lot of shit from, for not knowing like the deep cuts. And I, but I'm brave enough to admit that I don't know them. It's extremely brave. I know it's scary. It's really scary. It is. I'm scared for you. No, I'm not going to give you shit for it. I will say in a way you're lucky, you have so much to discover. That's what, that's how I thought. I viewed it as well. But are you, are you doing the homework and are you listening? I'm, yes. Like when I heard Lower East Side Girls, like well, now I'm very interested in her life, like leading up to the Madonna that she now is today. By the way, Lower East Side Girl, that's a good cut to not everyone mentions that. That I know, the album. That I know. That's a good one. It's a very moving song. Yes, that one was my favorite. Oh, okay. Yeah. Interesting. It's a beautiful song. I like, it's like, you know, well, because I, I think when the Confessions 2 came out, I wasn't necessarily in the mood to dance. Oh, not in like a sad way. I was just like, I'm not in the mood to dance. You just tired? Yeah, I'm just like, like, I just got, like, I wondered it come out, it came out this summer, right? Yeah, it came out early July. Okay. And I hope it gets, it really deserves like a bunch of Grammys and many great. You want it for album of the year? Oh, yeah. Madonna has never won. She's, am I wrong about that? Ray of light one, pop album. Uh-huh. But I don't think it won album of the year. Okay. I'm pretty sure it did not, I'm a pretty die-hard fan. But now I'm, I want to make sure. No, I don't think she won album of the year. I think I would, I think you would know. That's crazy. That is crazy. Mother fucking Madonna. The world of pop music, as we know it, it doesn't exist without Madonna. Can you explain that to me? Oh, Jesus. Please. I've just said. I want to know. I want to know. This is a big topic. Like, I know everything about Mariah Carey. Okay. So like, I love Mariah Carey. I love her. I know that there is, the two can exist at the same time, but like, I have a hard time paying attention to multiple people at once. Okay. Um, I have no excuse actually. I love Mariah too. Um, they're very different artists. Um, Madonna. Boy, you know, Jake, like my bar mitzvah, there was a life-size spray painted airbrushed cut out of Madonna. Right. Like, this is, this is deep for me. Um, Madonna. Oh god, how do you sum up Madonna? Um, what do you want to know? Ask me questions. So you want to know why she's so influenced? No, I know why she. So I know that she did things that people like weren't necessarily doing. That's right. Like, she behaved like a, like a rock and roll star, but she was like a pop girl, right? It's actually, there was something very punk about Madonna's attitude and the way she presented herself and how much control she took over her career and how, and her artistry and how unapologetic she was. Um, and as a woman, but really as compared to any artist, male or female, I mean, she, she had an incredible amount of self possession and defiance. And she coupled that, she, she, she did all of that in this pop dance genre. Yeah. Where those two things, like, had not really been melded together like that. Right. I'm not sure I'm being as articulate as I could be. That makes perfect sense. Um, she also really, um, I mean, for us as your day. Yes. Yeah, you identify. Yes. As a gay man, you should know about Madonna because when I was growing up, you saw very few out gay men on TV, right? Even on MTV, which was considered like the cutting edge, right? And Madonna was, she had a huge impact on my life because she surrounded herself without gay men. And she turned dancers, her brother Christopher Tracone who designed, uh, two of her best, most iconic tours who sadly die. Yes, that too fragile is about, right? Was that, that's who fragile is about, right? Yes. Yes, the song on her. See, I know some of my style. You do, you do. You do. I'm being patient. Um, but, uh, she, you know, she uplifted him. She really, like, uh, I mean, she was the center of it all, but she surrounded herself and really empowered gay men. She loved gay men for their creativity, for their attitude, for their artistry. And she also really empathized with what gay men were going through. You know, she was really good friends with Keith Haring, you know, the famous gay artist who died of AIDS, you know, and then she becomes a huge force for fundraising and for raising awareness at the peak of the AIDS crisis. So for the most popular star on MTV, you know, arguably like her and Michael Jackson at the time. Yeah. Um, to be that vocal about AIDS and about standing up for, for gay men. Um, and to help make gay men that visible, she has a documentary called Truth Through Dare, which if you've never seen that, go and watch this, anyone watching this, you have a lot of younger fans, right? Um, young women, young gay men are a really any one, anyone at all, but especially if you're, I feel so fucking old, but, but especially if you're trying to be a young artist, she came out with a documentary called Truth Through Dare in 1992. Now you might look at it and say, like, well, that looks like a reality show. There were no reality shows. Right. Like this was like this no holds barred look at her behind the scenes while she put on the blonde ambition tour, which was like the clip when they were like, we're gonna arrest you if you go out on stage and she said, well, then arrest me. Exactly. If she was simulating masturbation on stage, like a virgin in Toronto, they threatened to arrest her if she went on stage. Toronto. Strangely. Yeah. Wow. It was not expecting that from Toronto. Well, you never know. This was also like 1990 things were a little different. Uh, oh yeah. The Vatican was trying to like excommunicate her from the church. I think she might have been. Um, I know the, like, see, I know, I know the kits and the classics and the big ones and like, you know, but it's an, it's, it's an incredible documentary. And I went to see this with my parents. I tell this story in my book Mother's Day Week at 1991. I was very lucky as a gay kid at that time. I wasn't out, but it was pretty clear, you know, Madonna, bar mitzvah. Exactly. There you go. Yeah. So my parents knew they took me to see this documentary true. through Thurder, the weekend it came out. I sat in between them and on screen in one of the behind the scenes moments from the movie they play Thurder, her and her dancers who were almost all out gay men. Now to even see that many out gay men on the big screen at that point, alongside the coolest music star of the era, in my opinion of all time, but especially of that era, right? And it wasn't about them being victims at all. And you're seeing their artistry as dancers and then they play Thurder, and two of them are dared to make out with each other, right? And they make out and the camera light goes in for a close-up. And I sat there watching this as a 13-year-old kid in 1991 with my parents and they didn't seem particularly uncomfortable with it. You just didn't see it. I know now you can go on Instagram and you see like every gay guy and he's with his boyfriend, everyone's naked and fucking all the time and like, you know, it's all, it's so like there's so much more visibility that it's like, it feels like what I'm describing happened on a different planet. But it was so rare to see that in those days. And so to see that, like it just, to see that and just also know that my parents were okay with it, like something like clicks in your head, you're like, oh, like, I'm cool. Like I grew up thinking that gay men were so cool. I was so excited to like, eventually come out of the closet and be part of gay male culture in New York and in the world. And a lot of that is because like Madonna made it seem so cool. Yeah. What I mean, like, I didn't really connect shame with being gay. Some of that was the fact that I grew up in New York City. Some of the fact, a big part of it, and this is a lot of what my book is, it was the fact that my parents were so liberal and so supportive and encouraging of me as a gay person, as an artist, as everything. I was very, very, very lucky. So that's really a huge part of why I didn't have like the shame a lot of gay kids grew up with and still do. But also, it was the artists I looked up to, right? They empowered gay men. They talked about gay issues. They surrounded themselves with creative gay men and Madonna was at the top of that list. Yeah. I think that's how I felt about Lady Gaga as a kid. Of course. Yeah. Like Gaga for you, I was older already by the time Gaga comes around. But every generation has their Madonna. Yeah. Every generation of young gay men, young LGBTQ people, young women, like, has their Madonna. But it did start with Madonna. Would you say it goes Madonna, Gaga, Chapel? I was literally just going to say that. Yeah. I really think, and again, I'm a 48 year old man, but like, I think from what I can observe, I think Chapel is the next, is carrying the torch. And there are others here. Yeah. Have you ever seen her live? I've only seen clips. She's unbelievable. Yeah. From what I've seen, she looks amazing. Have you ever met Madonna? Yes. I did a few times. But I did a Billy on the Street style video with Madonna, which I talk about in the book. It happened really early on, though. It's a strange story. So Billy on the Street, the TV show, started. And at the same time, Conan O'Brien had his talk show still. And he hired me, his show hired me to do Billy on the Street segments for his show. And the first thing they asked me to do was to go to the Super Bowl that year. I covered the Super Bowl. And I was like, yeah, of course, I was desperate to do anything. But then I got off the phone with them and I was like, what the fuck am I going to do with the Super Bowl? I'm not a sports guy. What am I going to cover in Billy on the Street style? And then I realized the halftime show was Madonna. It was like a gift from the universe. From the universe. Exactly. And I called up Conan's people. I said, OK, here's my take on the Super Bowl. We go to the Super Bowl. It was an Indianapolis that year. And I'm doing Billy on the Street, but I'm only asking people going to the Super Bowl about Madonna. I don't care about the game at all. Right. Now, in the years since, this has become kind of an ongoing joke on Twitter and social media. Like, I'm only watching for the halftime show and things like that. But that joke wasn't being made as much. This is back in 2012, right? So kind of before social media, as we know it, really exploded. And they said, great. I thought that was a really funny idea. Make a long story short. I go to the Super Bowl. It's still on YouTube. It's a really funny video. It culminates with me. You know, I'm walking around Super Bowl Village. I'm asking people like, you excited about Madonna and all these like old, straight white guys are like, fuck Madonna. She's old. And I'm like, you're fucking old. And I'm like, getting up in their face is like really defending Madonna. And then at the end of the game, Conan's team somehow got me like crazy access, like access that like a sports journalist would get. Right, right. And also, no one knows me at this point. Very few people know me. So I could really get away with some shit. And I just had my big parka on and I looked like I worked for ESPN or something, you know? Like this big guy, like, you know, at the Super Bowl, it's like one would assume I'm interested in the game. And at the end, I run onto the field. The Giants win the Super Bowl, actually, the New York Giants win the Super Bowl. And I run out onto the field. There's like confetti falling, the Super Bowl trophies out, the players are crying. These like grown men are crying, you know, their families are running out onto the field. All the journalists are running out onto the field to interview the guys who just won. And I run up to the New York Giants and I'm like, hey, you know, congratulations, man. And they just think I'm a guy from covering sports and they're like, thanks, man, it was a great game. And then I was like, did you see Madonna? Right? And I go up to all these New York Giants and ask them about Madonna right after they won the Super Bowl. Right? And they were just looking at me. They were so confused. Yeah. That I wasn't asking about the game. And one of them deluxe at me. You can go on on YouTube and see one of them looks at me and he was like, oh, Madonna, I don't know. I was in the locker room. Yeah. Because it was half time and they didn't even see it. So her team, Madonna's team then, is made aware of this video. Yeah. Yeah. Sort of viral. It's a funny video. And her team was really excited about it because she had an album coming out and a tour starting. This was MDNA is the album. By the way. And I knew that. Okay. And I knew that. I just want you to know that I knew that. Okay. I knew that. I appreciate that. But. And then that started a conversation with me and her team, which ended up with me. Her publicist reached out to me and said, um, she, she loved the video I made so much. And she said, if there's one thing I do, I'm getting you on camera with Madonna. And I was like, are you fucking kidding me? Like just the email alone. I was like, like, I couldn't believe it was happening. Even if it never happened, I was like, just this email, I'm going to frame. Like, I knew so much about Madonna. I knew her publicist's name from reading about Madonna for 12 years, like Liz Rosenberg, no longer her publicist. Like, was for a very long time and shares publicist and Stevie Nex and a lot of people. So I was literally star struck by Madonna's publicist. I would feel that way about Taylor Swift. Totally. Totally got it. Yeah. Yeah. Yes. And so. And the publicist came through and Madonna ends up bringing that toward a Yankee Stadium. I think she was the first woman to headline Yankee Stadium. Wow. Solo at least. And. And they said, okay, you can ambush Madonna. She's going to be onstage rehearsing her show the whole like the afternoon before the concert. And I knew she couldn't be on the street with me like going up to people, obviously, but at least this felt outside and like, you know, it felt like it had the spirit of Billy on the street. And they said, like Michelle Obama's team, they said, we know you can script it. She knows you're coming. Would you have scripted it from Madonna? That would be really hard because it's, I really don't want to script it. And here's the lesson Madonna taught me as a kid. Madonna would never script it. Right. You know? And so I would try to hold on to that Madonna defiance if I could. Uh-huh. It's a good question, though. Luckily, she was like, we don't want you to script it. We want you to do your thing. She knows that you're coming at some point. But then it's, we don't know what's going to happen. You can say whatever you want and she's just going to respond to you. And we did. I ambushed her twice during her rehearsal. I'm on stage with Madonna and her dancers or kids were there. They were very young at that point. I don't know about Lordeys but Rocco was there. He's like a baby. And so we didn't script it out. And I am literally shouting in Madonna's face. Now what was really hard for me, too, is that I knew it would be out of character for me to start fangirling out about Madonna. That's not Billy on the street. Like he gets angry. Oh, so this is where the character-- Yes. Yes, OK. And so I had to stay true to the persona, or whatever you want to call it. And I was like, OK, I can't just fangirl out at Madonna. I have to kind of keep that inside. And I have to find a reason to get angry at her, right? Yeah. And I had already seen the tour. And I knew that on this tour, she was not performing Vogue. And so I shouted at Madonna and she shouted back to me. And it's fucking great. Yeah. Wow. But in that moment, were you like, I could stop doing this forever now and I'd be happy? It was strange, because it was only 2012. My own show had been on, but on a very obscure cable network, we had only-- had one season. I don't even think I had many viral videos yet. And so it happened strangely early, the way that it worked out. Like it was odd in that way, you know? I was like, this is all happening too fast. Like this is like my fucking icon legend, like the most inspirational artistic force in my life. And I'm already meeting her. Like it's almost too fast in a way, but it was surreal and it was great. And I made her laugh too, because I think she's a hard laugh, you know, to get, she tries, you know, Madonna tries to stay real tough. Yeah. And she did kind of laugh out loud, like uncontrollably at one point. And in my mind, I thought I did it. I'm proud of that moment. And I have that, like, a screen grab of her laughing. Like I like printed that out. And I thought, that's amazing. God, that's so awesome. It's pretty cool. And I also, you were very close with Joan Rivers. Yes, I was. Who I know, I know everything about. So that, you know, that doesn't track with your huge lack of knowledge about other topics. I know. Yeah. I know. But Joan Rivers, my mom and I would watch together. I watch Joan Rivers with my dad and my parents too. And I did, and I learned that she, you were about to quit. And she sat down and basically told you not to. Totally. That really happened. So Joan Rivers. Oh, this is a long story. I'm going to. No way. I'm here for the long story. Okay. What happened was I was doing my live show, the one where the Billy on the Street video started that I told you about. And at the time, the original queer eye for the straight guy, the original. Yes. I remember the original. Back in 2006. How old were you? Six. But I remember you. Okay. Guys, my mom was like, you should watch it. You were like, I am interested in this, even though I'm only six. So the original queer I was on was a big hit. Bravo was looking for, I guess, other shows that involved gay men. Again, very rare for 2006. And they put together a talk show pilot for Joan Rivers. And it was called Joan Rivers Straight Talk. And the joke was that it was Joan Rivers. And like the view is, was Barbara Walters and four different types of women. This was going to be Joan Rivers and four different types of gay men. And it was called Joan Rivers Straight Talk, LOL. And they, they came to my live show to kind of see if I could be one of the panelists, because they'd heard about my live show. And Joan came to my show. This was a show being done at this off-off Broadway theater. And you didn't know Joan at this point. No. Okay. And Joan came to my show and then I went in and I auditioned and I got it. So I was one of the panelists. And it was me and Andy Cohen before he had his own show. And two other guys, Elzy Granderson was one of them. And Preston Conrad was the fourth. Preston Conrad, who now I think works for entertainment tonight or something like that. Extra maybe. And so I got this job. I shoot the pilot with Joan. It doesn't get picked up. But Joan kept coming to my live show. She loved me. She really did. And like, I don't know how else to say it. Like, it was crazy to me. She was one of the comics I grew up like Letterman watching on TV with my parents late at night. You know, Joan was the first live stand-up show that I ever saw when I was a kid. My parents and I used to go to this like pool club in the Bronx called Shore Haven in the 80s. It's a very kind of New York thing. And Joan came to perform once. But she did an 18 and over stand-up show because she was so raunchy. Yeah. She cursed so much. And they didn't want any kids in the show to go to the show. So, but I begged my dad. I was like, I'm literally like seven years old. But I knew Joan from TV already. And I begged my dad. I was like, please sneak me into the Joan River stand-up show. And he did. And it's a very sweet story in my book because I was little kids. So my dad's like holding me on his shoulders so I can watch Joan Rivers make jokes about menopause. Yeah. And I'm like a seven-year-old child, right? And then fast forward. Like, I don't know. It was like 20 years later. I'm with Joan and making this pilot with her. And she even though the pilot didn't get picked up, she really, she just really wanted to champion me and support me. And it was amazing. And I didn't know famous people at this point, let alone Joan. I mean, she's such a groundbreaking figure. And she's so fucking funny. She was so fucking funny off camera too. And she had this amazing, she loved being famous. In a not, not in like a weird way where it's like desperate in a way that people coming up, she used to tell me, this is a lesson I have remembered. She used to tell me, she used to get so mad when she would hear famous people complain about fans approaching them on the street. Because she said, what's better than someone you don't know a stranger coming up to you and saying, I love you. Yeah, I love your work. It's awesome. You mean something to me? Yeah. Why do these fucking idiots in Hollywood complain about that? They're desperate to be famous and then they want to live these like, you know, lives where like, you know, a real person who works a nine to five job is not allowed to come up to them and say, I'm your fan. Can you imagine what you'd have to say about Chapeurown? Oh God. God, that would be funny. It would be so fucking funny. That's such a good call. And that when Joan said that to me one day, I wasn't a known person yet, but that really stuck with me. And it's such a good, it's such a good lesson to learn. Because weird shit happens in your head when you're famous. And so Joan became a really big champion of mine. But then that pilot doesn't get picked up. And I keep having these close calls with jobs on TV, but I can't get arrested. I can't get a job. I can't, you know, agents and managers are dropping me and I would get a TV deal, but it would fall apart. And but I was getting all this pressing. How great I was blah, blah, blah. But if I was so great, why can't I get a job? You know, it's that sort of weird show business thing that happens. And I reached out to Joan in 2009 and I emailed her. And I said, Joan, she always left herself very open for me to get in touch with her, but I didn't want to bother her too much. But I this time I did, because I really needed to talk to her. And I said, Joan, I'm so frustrated. I don't understand. Like, everyone is giving me all these compliments, but I can't get a paying job. Like, how long? And I was, I was 30 at this point. And I don't know, when you turned 30, it starts to sound a little less cute. You know, that you're struggling. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And so I said to her, can you give me some advice here? Like, how much longer should I hold on at this like crazy dream? I'm like a, I come from a middle class family in Queens. Like, we weren't wealthy. We had no connections in Hollywood. Like, you know, it was going to require what felt like a miracle for me to break through. But I was determined, you know? And Joan said, come to my show. She was doing a weekly standup show. And then we'll have drinks upstairs. It was in the basement of a restaurant. She was performing in. And then we'll talk. And I, and we did. And she just gave me the greatest pep talk of all time. And she said, how many years have you been doing this? And I said 10. And she said, okay, it took me seven years to get on the tonight show. She said, sometimes it takes a long time. But, and she was very, very nice. And she just said that, you know, she told me that she had watched Billy Crystal come up. And Robin Williams come up. And all these other comics come up in that. She thought that I had the talent to make it, you know? And she said, I've seen all these guys when they were young. And I knew they would make it. And they made it. And she said, I think you just have to hold on a little longer. And you're going to make it. And I said, okay, like you're a Joan Rivers. Right. And I actually went home and like called my dad. My dad was incredibly supportive, like ridiculously supportive. And wanted it so bad, wanted it to happen so badly for me. And my whole book is basically about my dad and my parents just being so nice, really. And I, but I was 30 and he was starting to worry about me. You know, it's like, what are you going to do with your life? Like how long do you hold on to the stream? Like we're not rich people. Like you need health insurance, like basic life things that I was not getting at the time. You know, I was not figuring that part of life out, like fundamentals of life. But I went home and I called when I was like, dad, I just saw Joan. She says, I have to hold on a little while longer. And she thinks I'm going to make it. And my dad was like, this guy from the Bronx, you know? And he was like, well, if Joan says it, you got to do it. That's what he said, those were his exact words. And so it was a pep talk for my dad. It was a pep talk for me. And a year later, my first video goes viral. Wow. And slowly, but surely, you know, things happened. Wow. Yeah. That's incredible. Yeah. Did you enjoy, so you spent your 20s in New York? Yeah. Were you able to like enjoy, like what was, what did dating look like for you? Oh, yeah, I was a maniac. Okay. Like in what do you still am? I still am. Okay. But like, what do you mean? Because like, I like, I feel like are you dating someone? No. No. No. I know. I want to subject. Well, I was watching Rose yesterday. I was like, I'm so triggered by this right now. Like, I can't even. Oh, yeah. Couldn't finish it. No, I finished it. I finished it. But I was incredible. I was incredibly triggered. Oh, because I was like, oh my god, like, it made you want a boyfriend. Yeah, kind of. Yeah. But I was like, these people are kind of impossible sometimes. Like the person I want is like this, the guy in bros. That's what that's what the movie's about. Yeah. That we are impossible with each other. as gay men. Yeah, maybe all people are like that. I've never been straight, so I don't know. But I do think that there are unique things to being two men trying to date. Yeah, it's because it's like, is it about sex or is it about emotion? Because it's a lot about sex and then it's like also it can be a lot, it's like very confusing. What are your issues with dating? I don't know, I don't put myself out there. You don't. Well, then it's really not going to happen. I know, but you're a kid. Sorry, no, no, no, I'm still single. I'm 48 years old. So, and have you ever had a boyfriend? Yes, but very few serious relationships. Really? Yeah. But I didn't want one until I got older. Okay. Maybe I think I want one and I don't actually want one. I think that's it. I think that must be it. I think you not putting yourself out there is like kind of your body and soul, not really needing it yet. Yeah. Also, you're 26 years old. Yeah, about to be 27. About to be 27. You're on top of the world. You're working. I follow you on Instagram. I don't even know where does the energy come from. You're in Monaco on a boat. Oh, best weekend of my life. You're working out. You're doing, I'm following your fitness journey. I mean, you have a lot going on, Jake. So just do, I don't know. This is a time in your life to get your career. It's already going. But till I get it where you want to go and have fun. Yeah. Have fun. You don't need a boyfriend right now. I know. You're right. But crutches are so fun, aren't they? Crutches are great. They'll drive you crazy, but they're crazy. But when they're good, it's like drugs. It's like when they're good, they hit and it's the best feeling in the entire world. Are you on apps? Well, I was. I was on all of them. Yeah. And then I would look down to just Raya, which is like, they matched me with someone and like, that one is in good. Yeah. It's not good for gay, guys. I don't think it's. Well, I have straight, my straight friends show up on my Raya. Right. Because they're like, people are really beautiful guy who, who's lives in Portugal. Yeah. So why did you go off the others? Because you're famous. Well, the man he scared me. Wait, why? She was scary. I just. I'm scared for you. People would sometimes be mean to me on there. And I was. Yes. You mean? Like people like, I don't know if you know this, but like people now, like, will screenshot like your messages and like, they'll put them on Twitter. And like, I'm just like, so uncomfortable. That fucking sucks. Yeah. What is wrong with people? I know that it's fundamentally wrong, but it still happens. And it gives me a lot of anxiety. So every message I send, I'm like, thinking about, oh my god, if someone going to screenshot this and make fun of me, because it hasn't happened, but I've seen it happen to other gay people. Yeah. And it like gives me like jolts of anxiety. I understand that, you know, if that's happened to me, I'm not aware of it. I think maybe, sorry to constantly be like, I'm older than you. I'm older than you. But like, I think because I'm older and I'm probably dealing with an older, like demographic of guys on those things, maybe it's less likely that like a 45 year old is going to be like, I just spoke to Billy Eichner on hand. Yeah. You know, or maybe they don't want anyone to know. It's also possible. Yeah. But that might be it. You know, I don't know. That sucks. I'm sorry. No, it's fine. You know, you're like just great. And it's kind of a, it's a, you know, it's an interesting life to like do what you do and what I do. It's unusual. It is unusual. Well, Billy, what are you therapist about today? Oh shit. What am I therapist about? What am I angry about? There's so much to be angry about. See, there is so much. Okay. I wish there were more shows on TV that were not about murder. Oh, and seriously, I could not disagree more. It's not that there aren't great shows. I just sometimes, it feels like we used to have more of a variety of shows. Yeah. Like just shows about normal people or like Friday night lights. Funny people. Yeah, sure. Friday night. Or like, you know, I'm thinking like six feet under. We, I love six feet under. See, and I know my references. You do to an extent. Yeah. I don't know. Like, that's just something I think about as a writer. Like, you know, I don't know. We used to have shows that were just about people where there was no murder involved. And like, I know people. Was that just like my dad? I'm old. I know. I sound like an old man. He hates all those shows too. I don't hate them. I don't hate them. I'm just saying, like, we used to have more of a variety. Like, I want more like, you know, I'm a softie inside. I want like more Gilmore girls. And more like sex in the city. You're not a Gilmore girl, a person. Wow. I can't. I just, really, I've tried. And I'm like, it's not for me. I'm so sorry. That's totally fine. I love girls. Girls in my favorite show of all time. That's a great show. My other favorite show of all time is this show called Dark. Is that you talk about that? Yeah. I've never seen that. I love that. You note that. Yes. I watch your show. It is a German show that you would hate. Why would I hate it? Dark is about a little German boy named Mikal. And he goes missing in a small German town. And you're not his brother tries to find him. Why can't I watch that? You can. It's on Netflix. I just don't think you would like it. Why? It's about like murder and like, oh, oh, oh, I see. It's about murder. I love. I love murder. Don't get me wrong. I love murder. But like, you know, I love a serial killer. I was on American Horror Story. I know you were on that. I enjoyed it. I love doing it. You know, I'm just saying it feels like so. It's so much of what people watch. It must be escapism. People, I think it is. For me, that's the thing. I think you're right. But for me, it's not an escape. I'm like, I have so much anxiety already. The world is so dark and brutal that I can't believe like people go home at night, crash on their couch and they want to escape into what? An even darker scenario. I know. What am I watching? I tend to watch a lot of things that are related to things I'm writing. Okay. So right now I am, I'm about to pitch a Christmas movie. Ooh. That has music in it. Uh-huh. Can't say much more about that. So I'm watching things that are kind of in that world that I will admit I had never seen until this week Tim Burton's The Nightmare Before Christmas. Oh, well, I actually don't know if I've seen that. You've never heard about it? No, I've, I've, please. Yeah, it's a classic. I guess. Yeah. I've heard about it. But I, I think I might have seen it when I was a kid. Yeah. It's great from what I recall. I missed it and just watched it as a grown man. And what, what was that? It was, it's great. It's very unusual. It's very smart. And very rock. This one's so different though. I agree with you. I love a Christmas movie. But this one is like a, it's a, it's a mix of Halloween and Christmas. I'm so glad someone's finally promoting The Nightmare Before Christmas. By the way, it's been out for 30 years. Um, fascinating story. Then I did all this research about The Nightmare Before Christmas is that it was a Disney movie, but it's interesting how much times have changed. It was a Disney movie, but Disney thought it was too edgy. So they wouldn't put the Disney name on the movie when it came out. Oh, and then now it became such a classic that now they like stamp Disney all over it. And there's like a whole night before Christmas, like thing at Disney World or during Halloween and stuff. But like, they were scared of it. And it is an odd movie. It's kind of very, I was scared when I was a kid. You thought it was scary. I recall correctly. I remember being frightened. I was always frightened by movies as a kid. My mother had to take me out of Ghostbusters. Oh, okay. I was so scared. I loved horror movies as a kid. I loved being scared. Oh, like the grudge stuff like that. The others with the others, but that's on in like another level. The others are so good. Yeah, but like, I loved all those movies. There's so much. There's just so much Nicole Kidman happening in our culture. Like constantly. It's awesome. I mean, I've always loved her. You know, the very first season of Billy on the street going 2011. Uh-huh. We did a segment. I don't think it's ever been online. It was just on the show. And it was, it wasn't me going up to people. It was more of a scripted sketch. And it was a like a protest, a rally that was staged like a political rally to raise awareness of Nicole Kidman. I actually vaguely. You might have seen it. I think I've seen this. Yes. And because in that moment, people aren't talking as much about Nicole Kidman. She was like a thing. I mean, she was a huge star, of course. And she's an amazing actress. But God, Nicole Kidman is like, she's like the Statue of Liberty now. I mean, she's like everywhere. Pop songs, every movie, every time I look at Instagram, she did your show. Yeah. And she was great. She was awesome. She talked about being lonely the night she won the Oscar. I know, which was so moving. That was really honest. It was nice to hear. Not nice, but I like the honesty of it. Well, of course, because you're like, it almost makes you feel better because you're like, all I want in life are like trophies and accolades and paths on the back and congratulations. But if you come home to an empty house, what does that mean? What does it mean? You know what happened to you after you won the webby? Do you have a webby? I do have a webby. So do I. Yes. And I went home and I wept all night because I won a webby. Because it's the only award I've ever won. That's the only word you've ever won. No, I won a glad award. That's amazing, which was very nice. That was for bros. And I've been nominated for four Emmys and have lost all four. Still cool to be nominated. Still very cool. Was very happy to go to the Emmys four times. Yes. Very cool. Yeah. Now, after I won the webby, I think I was like, did you go? Yeah. Oh, I went. Oh, wait. What happened? Just like they only the speech that they you're only allowed to say as you know five words. Right. Right. And so know what it's just, you know, it's better we move on. Okay. It's better we move on. My hair looked bad. You let me wait. It's better we move on your speech. No. My speech was five words. I know. My speech was I wish I could say more and I thought I ate. Oh, yeah. And I've won the next day was like, ew. You should have said it's better we move on. I know. That's funny. That's that's funny. Had I worked up. There was others in the running. Do you remember my hair was like, I like your hair now. Me too. Yeah. I like my hair now. Do you know it looks great? And I think I'm going to be Danny Phantom for Halloween. Oh, that's cute. Do a little bleach. Are you a Halloween person? No, but I finally got invited to a cool party. I feel excited. I'm going to go with my best friends. Like it's around my birthday. What's your birthday? October 27th. Londoners aren't. Where are you? September 18th. For a go. Yeah. And your Scorpio. Scorpio. Yeah. Yeah. My first serious boyfriend was a Scorpio. How do you guys meet? We. How old were you? I was right out of college. So I was like 21 and we met at was at what was a very chic gay party in the year 2000 in Manhattan called beige at B bar, Bowery bar, which was a gay party every Tuesday night that you know the cool gaze went to and a lot of like fashion people. I saw Julia Roberts there once. Fashion designers would go I mean I was like a slub or just graduated college but I did. I met my first boyfriend there. And you're wasn't my first boyfriend. My first serious boyfriend. Oh fuck. I got to catch up. You guys. I really do. Have you had a serious boyfriend? No. Okay. I run away every time. That's not unusual though for gay men to be honest. You don't think so? No. I had one serious boyfriend out of college and then did not have one again for a very long time. Do you think you can make someone have a crush on you if they don't initially? No. Okay. Cool. You can. Cool. Was that what you're trying to do currently? Yep. No, Jake. You got to get out of that game. No. I hate it too. It sucks. Yeah. Because you want if you like the person in your head you're like but it was a Tuesday. Yeah. And he had to get up the next morning. Right. That's what I'm thinking about. It's married to a woman. It's like who cares? Yeah. No. I never hooked up with a guy that was married to a woman. No. I am so not into that. No, I mean not for me. But sometimes by accident. Oh, I don't think so. Okay. Have you? Once by accident. Oh, by accident. Yeah. What excites you about pop culture today? Like is there anything that's so exciting to you about pop culture today? Madonna. Right. There are a lot of movies coming out. I really want to see. I want to see especially movie. I, you know, I like movies about gay people. So you want to see the, the Andrew, the Andrew Scott one. I want to see Elson or I want to see Jordan Firstman's movie. Oh, so badly. So badly. That trailer was amazing. Yeah. So I want to go out and support those movies. It's hard to get those movies made. Well, you made one. I did make one and it was fucking hard. It's hard, you know, and it's rare. So, and I hear that those two are really good. I want to see those two movies. This is a time of year. A lot of good movies are coming out. It's a good year for movies. But I don't like that they dump all the good movies at the end of the year. Oh, I love it. You do. It gets cold out. What else is there to do? Let's go see a movie. Like, oh my god. It feels like, I just, it's so, it's like, oh, now there's a mad dash to see like every movie. Yes. You got to see the social reckoning. You got to see what is the the Andrew Garfield one where he plays Sam Altman. Yeah. Oh, artificial. I've heard it's amazing. I know. See so many movies. And then there's the Nathan Fielder one about Elizabeth Holmes. Yes. He is Nathan Fielder. Did you know him at all? Like, we've met a couple of times at parties. Actually, the first time I met him at a party. I don't know when this was five or six years ago. It was like Nathan for you. And I saw him at a party in LA. And I went up to him and I said, I love you. And he looked at me and he said, I love you too. And it was like very sweet. And I've met him a few times. I am he is genius. He's a genius. Singular genius. Yes. I just love him. Yeah, he's awesome. I mean, what a great eclectic career. I know. So cool. It's like something that became, it started so silly became so meaningful. It's so meaningful. It's kind of how I feel about Bob Burnham as well. Where is Bob Burnham? Dating Phoebe Bridgers. Get out. Swear. I did not know that. She has a song about him called Bobby. I did not know that. Fantastic. I missed Phoebe Bridgers in concert, unfortunately. I heard it was amazing. She's incredible. You know who I love? Who? Sarah Bareilles. Wait. So do I because she gave us waitress? That's right. I just saw her. She has a really beautiful album out called. Oh God, good grief. Good grief. And it's sad. It's about dealing with loss and like people, friends that she has lost in her life. But it's really, really beautiful. And there's a documentary about the making of the album I watched. I'm like a weirdly obsessive Sarah Bareilles fan. I get very obsessive about like when I when I see when I have an album, I like like a documentary to go along with it is always the best. Like I'm very into music. And I went to see her same. I went to see her at Radio City a few weeks ago on my birthday. She was her tour. And how is that? Gorgeous. And she is so fucking talented. And I know her a little bit, but not really. So this is not like I'm plugging my friend here. Like, but she's just really insane. Well, give it a listen. What else do I, what are you listening to? I'm listening to a lot that I find the new addella stuff to be amazing. Oh, Nicole Kidman. Yeah, but she is. I know it's more than that. I know. I know. It's the song called Marijuana. She has a main day. It's like, you know, it's just one of those like, you know, when it's like Rihanna's like higher like one minute 30 seconds. You're like, I wish it was longer. I've been listening to Miley's new album. She's the biggest Miley fan in the entire world. I really love her. I've been listening to the new tenosh. I album I did at the gym today. I heard that. It's really good. It's like as good as people are saying. So you know about the tummy. What's wrong with that? I do. I'm being used as the photos for some random catfisher on hinge the way I would be so honored. My friends showed me a profile with my face and photos, but not my name or anything else about me. On the one hand, let's go. I'm being used as a hot girl. Yeah. On the other, I want that shit taken down. LMAO. We already reported, but I'm having my friend try to match with this person. Question is, what do we do slash say if we get the match? I'd be like, what's your name? Where you from? Like, I want to see what story they would make up for me. What didn't you just say like you're using my friends? Oh, I'd be like, what's your name? Well, you would like, where are you from? Trying to keep it going? Yeah. Oh, why? It's honestly a great answer. Like, what else is there to do? Do they have my social security number? No. Okay. All good. It's just like a fun thing. Yeah. Having your identity being stolen. But it's not, though. It's like you know, it's fake. It's fake. And if I didn't have a public career and that happened to me, I would be like, holy fuck, this is the best thing that ever happened to me. Yeah. Somebody thinks I'm hot enough to catfish. I agree with you. That's creepy too, but also flattering. My roommate has been reading my journal for months now. I just caught her doing this and she fasted up. Oh, it's become habitual for her. She says it's because we're drifting apart and she just wants to know what's going on with me. But I think that's a bad shit in saying, help literally what do I say to her? Well, she's got to go. Yeah, that's terrible. Someone grabbed my journal. That's like my worst nightmare. It's my worst nightmare. Do you journal every day? No, do you? Most days. I try to, but I get distracted and then I end up just writing notes on my phone. There's a very streamlined journal I read. I use calls. It's just three questions every day. Okay. I see. Maybe that would help me. Yeah. Actually, my therapist was like, you're not going to journal and journal and journal. So you need like the same three questions every morning and every night. What's it called? It's called the three question journal. Okay. It's actually very helpful. I've given it to other people and everyone enjoys it. I think I need it. I'll send you the link. Journaling does help to an extent. Yeah. And I like to listen to music as I do so. I do the same. What do you listen to? Calming things like jazz. Okay. Yeah. Honestly, like I'd probably put on Audrey Hobert today in journal. To journal? Her music feels like a journal. Okay. Yeah. That works. My friend is a joke stealer. We don't like that. No. We'll be out and he'll tell the joke to the group and everyone will laugh. But we watch the same stuff because we talk about it, recommend it to each other all the time. And I noticed like multiple times lately, he's been ripping off character setups and dialogue, etc. Oh, I don't do that. I don't really care, I guess, but it just feels so phony. Do I get him to stop for his own sake before someone else catches him? But he should stop doing that. You have to distance yourself from him. I agree. And then he won't have any more jokes to make. That sucks. I know it does suck. The beauty of my friends is that we all steal. Like we all adapt our own language. Are you are your friends, old friends? Yeah, from college. So we got each other for like eight, nine years. Do you go out in New York? Yes. I saw you out one night, but it was like a dinner or something. Oh my god. You tell me at LaDive. Yeah. Yeah. But I mean like you go out like to get like gay clubs. No, I don't. And so actually it's funny. You mentioned that because me and my friend were like, let's go to a gay club, let's go to a gay bar tomorrow night and we don't know where to go. Oh, I'll take you. Okay, please. Great. Will you tell me like and take me? I will. Okay. I'm surprised. Like you should know. I get But I get very intimidated by that scene because I feel like a people don't really necessarily love me I think I'm more of a girls guy, which I know about myself That's how I was raised that's you know, I was raised around women like I My humor is very like to make them laugh. Yes, I get that But when I go into like a predominantly like male gay place, you know, I get very scared They don't hate you. Well, sometimes it feels that way. Well That's just social media nonsense though. I RL is different. Okay. What's your favorite gay bar? It's my favorite gay bar. The only one I know is animal animal is a good one in Brooklyn We go to the eagle a lot. I've heard of loose. Oh, I don't even know what that is Loose is like what you were describing that two thousand chic little gay. Mm-hmm. That's loose, right? Would you say I'm correct? You're a fake gay icon Where else do you like you know Louise has gay parties where she invites all of her gay friends besides me? You don't go. I don't get invited. Why pick up the mic. You do do that You do do that actually frequently. I'm like, what are you doing tonight? You're like, oh my god It's my gay dinner. I'm like, oh, I didn't know that that is weird. I don't do that. This is a hyperbole You do do that sensationalized. You do do that. I've had one party one party that he wasn't invited to Boy, just so I had a friend that was visiting the city. It was Youth live in LA the move to New York news coming back to LA so I invited him and like our a bunch of other gay men. Yes, you don't know He's looking immediately like it was like a welcome home like seeing a friend that's yeah By the way, she has a life you know, she doesn't have to be attached to your hip all the time. Oh shit Yeah, don't I know it? You have to go out and socialize. I know I'm gonna go to a young you'll take me to a full gay man in New York City You'll take me to a gay bar. Yes, absolutely. Okay. Let's go to a gay bar. Okay, great. I would love that all right They go all these places get ready Have you ever been to a gay bar? You must have been I've been like a few times, but I black out drunk like black out drunk like beyond That's not good. I know you gonna have a few drinks, but a lack out. You're not gonna remember. No, yeah, yeah But I do go out a lot like in general I know you had a lot, but you go out with my girlfriend straight girls. Yeah, you're not gonna meet I know and then my night gets ruined. I get sad. I get home. I get annoyed. This is what I'm saying all right We got to take you out. I know show you a good time. I know all right I'm so tired of never knowing if I'm being filmed or not. I was walking in the city and some oh my god Did you do to some purpose? I was walking the city and some people popped up out of nowhere asking me to explain my outfit You kind of started that For better or worse. Yeah, they had been filming me for a block and then ambushed me I was so caught off guard I just went with it and they ran to film someone else like I don't want to be a part of that stuff But I didn't want confrontation out of nowhere It's so annoying. There's no privacy anywhere. I mean it's become so Prevalent it's like all over now. I know have you walk have you walked through Washington Square Park? Yeah, it's crazy Yeah, it wasn't like that when I did it. Uh-huh, and we also like we went out with like we were a real TV show like two TV cameras And like a sound guy with a boom like you don't see all of that yeah on camera, but It was pretty obvious that we were coming your way. Yeah, you know, okay now sometimes these days people are walking looking down at their phones They don't know who's coming gonna come up to them, you know So we kind of caught people off guard that way, but this whole thing with like jumping out and like I don't know Did I do a little of that? Yes, I did, but um, I don't know. It's kind of like most people that I did it with like first of all Everyone has to sign a release. I see that was my question all these people that showed that were on your show They had to say show they signs. I don't think that's I don't know if that's true of these other off shoots They'll just throw it up. Yeah, I don't know because it's just being done for the internet And they're it's still kind of like a wild West legally. Yeah, I had a TV show with with like lawyers involved So you people had to sign so people had to like sign to you know, give us their information You know like so you did it ethically we did it as ethically as you can you know Did I catch some people off guard? Yeah, I mean that's part of the fun, but they still sign the form They do you know one has ever been on Billy on the street without giving us their approval after we had our interaction Then they have to sign something and if some people didn't sign Well, then maybe you've never seen anyone on the show who did not sign maybe some of these new shows should take a lesson Maybe maybe my dream is to be asked what are you listening to right now? Stop on the street. That's my dream. That's a good one. I know I like that one my favorite Yeah, that's I'm always thinking about it when I'm walking down the street like someone please just ask me That can't happen. No, I've been saying it a lot on the show so someone does But I wanted to be like a random like I want it to be the show right you want the real good. I want the real show Yeah, I want them to find me and I want it to be set up at all and I want them to say what do you listen to and then my favorite part of those is what when they play the song as you walk away Oh, yeah, that's nice. Yeah, it is nice. Yeah, am I in the wrong here? My group is getting very upset with me lately because I always play devil's advocate I Think it's important almost every time to see both sides and these girls are often in the wrong too So I think that's why they're upset. I don't want to change this about myself But they are really fed up with it any advice stay true to who you are because my best friend in the entire world will Does this with me every single time and it makes me a better person you're fucking annoying is my advice you think every time You're like I'm the friend that's gonna play devil's advocate. It's important. It's important. You're not a friend. You're annoying. Oh my god I mean if you you don't need to play devil's advocate in every scenario Right, you know now if you really think that legitimately your friend needs to see the other side No, I would be annoyed to some debate. That's different and I would talk so much. This is who I am your whole personality as I play devil's advocate Get a life. Yeah, okay That's what I say Do you always play devil's advocate? Why not always and I think it's very Situation dependent, but a lot of times the things that we're discussing aren't that Okay, give me an example for real like he'll think someone's mad at him or something I'm like no, perhaps you're just like hearing their communication in a different way like sometimes it's not so Black and white and I'm like maybe there's miscommunication It's actually helpful to you because you're assuming everyone hates you and then you're saying not everyone But yeah, no, she plays devil's advocate quite a bit Wait, and I think even if you're a hundred percent always right, I think it's still helpful No, she'll say you're right, but the way you deliver the news is wrong. Oh Well There might be some truth. I think we've diverted topics now actually I communicate poorly, okay And yet here you are It's your charm. Isn't that what I think that's why people get so angry Probably yeah, but it's also what makes you you so it's a tricky one Right when you stop being you you don't right because eventually what I've realized is people will come around If you just don't stop being yourself no matter how annoying you are people will come around You're not annoying to the people that love you though. No, I am, but I think that's like and if they're they find it endearing Yeah, right you don't need everyone to love you no You I and I and I've come to terms with that. Yes, and you're being as popular as you are not everyone's gonna love you Well, thank you and some people are gonna actively gonna hate you. Yeah, but that's part of the life Have you ever doing this? Have you ever had someone in person be like I don't like you? I was once at a gay bar several years ago And it was really loud, you know, there was a dance floor and they were they were these two Gay guys younger than me. I would say They were in there like probably late 20s or something like that early 30s and The music was so loud. They probably thought I couldn't hear what they were saying But they were just standing right over there, right? And I was like with my friends But I heard my name they were like and it was something like that's Billy Eichner and then one of the other was like yeah And then now they obviously don't know who I am. They know my work. They don't know me in real life They were like yeah, that's him and then One of them said He's cute, but I just don't like his personality Oh, shit very like and I could hear it but like I but it made me laugh I was like you don't know my personality like you don't know me as a real person like you don't like my character or like you Don't like something you saw that I was in. I thought it was very funny though. I was kind of amused by it It felt like that was at me home. Was that that would send me home. Oh God. No, that's the difference between you and me You need a thicker skin babe. I know I know Long haul especially as a gay man Yeah, people people will say crazy shit But I don't know it kind of makes me laugh. I'm like they're they're talking about me like they really know me and they're strangers It's like you don't know me like you saw a video or you saw something that I did that like you didn't like the like the attitude also like I don't know for me. I was like You probably just aren't people who get what I do right and that's gonna have to be fine Yeah, like it's gonna have to be fine for you and it's gonna have to be fine for me And I don't need you to like my personality in order for me to be successful. Like, we can coexist as people in this club with you thinking that you don't like me based on some work of mine that you saw and with me knowing that. Like, I don't care. I have plenty of people that like me. And let's be honest, I was still happy. They said I was cute. That's what I would have been happy about. He's cute even though I don't like his personality. That's really what you want. I would say that I've grown thicker skin when realizing that like, okay, like, I've had my best friends for like almost 10 years now. They're gonna be my best friends for life. As long as I have them, I'm fine. Like, you know, I was, I will say I was thinking about you earlier when I was on my way here because you've had a lot of success for someone your age. And I, which is amazing, but I used to, I've thought many times about myself, like in those Joan Rivers years when I was going to Joan for help, I was closer to your age. But nah, and all I wanted was success. I just wanted to be paid for anything at that point, right? Now looking back, I think to myself, I'm sure it would have been so fucking fun to be like famous and successful in my 20s in a certain kind of way, right? But I don't think I was ready. I think it would have also been very hard. And I wasn't even in the social media world that you're in now. - Right. - And even so I think, sometimes I think I probably would have been an asshole or I would have been like completely torn apart by like anything anyone said. It's still hard. And so like to have to navigate it in your 20s, I think is a tricky thing. - Well, you don't even know who you are in your 20s. - That's right. - So then you're like reading these comments that are telling you who you are. And you're like, and they're negative. And you're like, wait, am I that? Luckily for me, my frontal lobe is coming. It's coming fully developed. So I can, I can, I can, I can read them and like, we've passed it. - But I would just imagine that that's hard actually. - It is. - So you need your friends and you need to just sort of not give a shit about like every single person. There's a billion people out there online. Not all of them are gonna like you. Then you're gonna come with me to the eagle. We're gonna fuck shit up. - Is it what's it like in there? Oh my God. What's it like? - You literally grew up in Manhattan. - You don't see, you don't even, everyone's like, you grew up in New York, like, or I'm like, I had no money. I looked like I was 12, like I wasn't going anywhere. - I actually, I wasn't like a New York kid that went out. I was a nerd. I went to stivocent. You know, I was like a nerd about like school work and stuff. Like I wasn't like going to clubs. - Right. I have that like cool kid New York lifestyle. But in my 20s, I was so looking forward to like going out and like experiencing nightlife in New York and gay nightlife. - But I do worry though, like, I don't know. I get anxious. Maybe it's like a self-important, maybe I think I'm more important than I am, but like sometimes I do get anxious about like to go to like a gay bar and like have someone take a photo of me and then like make fun of me. I do get scared. - Yeah, you're right. So I think a lot of gay men feel anxiety in those types of spaces. But I think they can also be like uniquely liberating. And I think that maybe it'll be for you and maybe it won't, you know, like it's not for everyone. But I don't know, I think it's fun and I think it's sexy and it's like, you know, something great about being a gay man is that you can go and have those types of experiences like with other gay men, like separate from the outside world. And I don't know, there's something fun about it. - No, it sounds fun. And I'm excited to be a part of it soon for my golden birthday. - All right, was that? - It's my golden birthday soon. - Oh, okay. - Not that you give a fuck. - That's golden birthday. - It's like when you turn 27 on the 27th. - Oh, I've never heard that expression. - Like your golden birthday, what's your birthday? - The 18th. - So what would it be when you turn 18 on the 18th? - You have a good, that's a good golden birthday. - Yeah. - Last one. Hey Jake and beautiful guest. I recently moved to NYC. I went back to visit my hometown. I saw my childhood best friend who ran away when we were little, and now she's acting like nothing happened. What? We exchanged numbers. How do I approach the situation? Mind you, we grew up together and she ran away when she was 13. I haven't seen her in almost 10 years. Oh my God, just let her. Let her pretend. Poor girl. - She feels dark and weird. - That feels dark. That's the type of show I love though. Talk about the type of show I love, like shit like that. - Like someone running away from home. - Yeah, like dark, twisted, like sharp objects type. - That was good. - See, if every show could be like sharp objects, I'd have the best life. I'd just sit and watch TV all day. - You don't wanna do that. - Sometimes I do. - I know, sometimes. - Yeah. - Yeah, well Billy, what did we learn today? - What did we learn? - A lot about Madonna. - Thank God, you needed it. - I did, clearly. - Yeah, someone needs to educate you people. - I know, I know. Well, Billy. - Jake. - Thank you for coming on the show. - Thank you for having me. - You're delightful. - You are delightful. - It was so fun. - I hope you had fun. - I did have fun. - We're gonna take you out. - I know, don't you. - I know, it's gonna be fun. - Bye, Pussies. (upbeat music)