Session 145: Carly Rae Jepsen

Tonight on Therapus, we have, well, you know what, Manny? Let me let you do the introduction. Oh my God. Okay. Hi, Pussy's. Tonight on Therapus, we have the wonderful, the amazing, wickedly talented Carly Rae Jepson, who's new album Day and Night, a double album is out now. What does Carly Rae Jepson mean to you, Manny? Oh my God. She means everything to me. Like her music is just one. It's like catchy as hell. It's so good. It's like, I dance for all the time, but also like I've gone through breakups, I've gone through friendship things, whatever all her songs have something meaningful that like I relate to and they're fun. Most of them, some of them are sad, but like even the sad ones are fun. I know. I know. We are missing the writings on the wall. Your type. Oh, duh. Yeah, I know. I'm not that type of girl for you. And I'm not going to pretend that I'm the type of girl you call more than a friend. Oh my God. That song is one of the most perfect pop songs ever. I know. And it just so happens to also exist on the album with another perfect pop song run away with me. with you, ooh. This is the part. Everyone sees all that you feel is feeling. Thank you tonight. I went away. I went away with you, because you make me feel like I could be driving you all night and I'll find your lips in the street lights. I want to be there with you, ooh, ooh, oh, baby. Tell me to the feeling. I'll be your tonight's secret. Where the lights go out, run away with me, run away with me, baby. Where the lights go out, run away with me, run away with me. Ladies and gentlemen, Carlie Ray Jopson. Her new album Day and Night is out now, and if you haven't heard it, please listen to it. She is one of the greatest pop stars of our life. I agree. Pussies, enjoy the episode. I love you. Here to talk about her eighth studio album Day and Night, Carlie Ray Jopson. Hello. Hello. Thank you for being here. It's my pleasure. I'm so excited. I am so excited. A motion is like seriously, I know we're here to talk about your new album, but I have to touch on emotion, which is my favorite album of all time. I died. I don't even know what to say to that. Thank you so, so much. Is it true that it was born? You wrote it while you were in Cinderella? That's how it started, at least. I was in the middle of singing really sweet soft songs, being a princess, which was lovely. And then in the evening, I laid at night after that, or sometimes during the day, I needed some percussion back in my life. I was listening to a lot of prince albums, and I thought the 80s, man, there's something about the 80s that is just so hard on your slave, like cut to all of the feelings, and I actually just said that, didn't I? Yeah, but I wanted to go there. That's my favorite song. Is it really me? That is my favorite song. Hers is a warm blood. Hey, I mean, yeah, no, I really wanted to do something different. I always want to do something different, same with day and night. It's just, it's really exciting to kind of go explore a different sonic world than you've been in before. Yeah. And because I read that you were initially wrote like a folk album, and then you scrapped it, and then. It was kind of foky. It was a little like grungy. I don't know what it was. I think I was rebelling Call Me Maybe when I went into the studio right away, which I think is a natural reaction. Of course. I was like, oh, it was very like sweet and funny and cute with that song, but now I want to do something serious. So I was looking for, you know, all the other things that I loved about music, which I came from a very folk-influenced family. Like we grew up on Joni Mitchell and Leonard Cohen and Kat Stevens. And so it felt like my roots to find something a little foky grungy. And I remember writing a lot with Tegan and Sarah. I met some New York people who got what I was going for. And I felt like that was an important time for me to get something out of my system. And yet I hadn't found it yet. And if you know me, I know when I find it. And the first song that I wrote for my emotion where I actually was like, okay, I know what it is I want to do. And it's this was actually the song emotion. And I came home and I felt that sort of excitement of like, okay, I want to discover what this world feels like. And it's 80s pop. I want to live there. And I want to figure out what my spin of that looks like. And did you when you talk about writing and creating music, do you start with a beat? Like a track. Yeah, like a track. Or do you start with lyrics? Usually I think there's no usually actually. I was going to start talking and then I realized I had no idea where I was going. It's always different. Yeah. I think that's why it's like going to be like an art form that I'll never really fully understand or completely be, you know, a master of. I think it's something that you're constantly learning at. And what I love about approaching music from different angles is you'll get a completely different outcome. So when you're arriving with or when I'm arriving with like collaborators that I've been in the room with for a long time that know me well that I feel intimate with, my favorite thing to do is just like play. And what that means is like someone grabs a guitar and I grab one of these and we just like riff and we sing and we talk about what's going on in each other's lives and something kind of just really naturally stands out to us. I more often than not love a kind of writing that I call almost like freeform writing where you're just sort of singing without judging it too much. And then like an idea or two will come out from that. That feels really exciting to me. But every once in a while I'll get like a concept too. Like a go-to fashion like LA concept where I'm like I really want to write about like the dating scene in LA or I really want to talk about you know something quite specific. And then I'll like I'll be talking with friends about it. I'll be like almost like collecting intel for my song for like months. Is that how like LA hallucinations started? Oh my gosh. LA hallucinations just came from like my deep confusion and at the time hate of Los Angeles was just wild because I live here still now and I've grown to love it. But at the time I did not understand. It's somewhere you have to grow to love. Yes it's a slow burn. Yeah it is. And you know I mean we were touched on this before in the other room but New York is like I'm in immediately. Whereas Los Angeles I needed to find my people. I needed to understand the art of the like the poetry of the city. It's kind of hidden. Yeah. You have to like go digging. And it's also like you're at the mercy of a car. Whereas in New York like you have this automatic like autonomy of just being able to like take your body anywhere you want without a vehicle. 100% and I don't know about you but I'm like it's hard for me to go out and be social like I kind of am a little bit of like a home body. I like my comforts. And so with New York I feel like I pushed into socialness. Like I just walk on the street and all of a sudden there's a bookstore and there's like I have this opportunity to be like romanced by a place and surprised by like the spontaneity of it. And it brings something out in my partner and I too were we're like more spontaneous together. We're like should we go get ice cream in the rain? Like yes we should. Like and like where else would I do that? And like Los Angeles we're like should we go get ice cream in today? And you're like we're so hot. It's like never raining. I actually today it is but generally you're like I mean okay like getting the car. It's like a whole journey. It's a whole journey. Yeah exactly. Like in New York I'm like I'm walking down the street the other week and I'm like oh my god there's a record store. I don't even have a fucking record player and I walk it. You don't have whoa. Well now I do. Now I do. Now I do. It's broken. But now I do. Okay record players. They hit different. I was at my friend Will's house the other day and he like put on like like I think it was like a James Taylor record and it was just like really set the mood and the vibe and like it was like I was like this is so different than just listening to music on TV. Well in this day and age I think it's a rare moment that you listen to an album and it's completion. You're generally skipping. We have access to it all. You're like, OK, James, it was a bad banana. I want to jump to this. But if you put on an album, you're committed for a second until that needle pops. And I feel like that is nice to slow life down a little bit. And like live in the world that the artist has created for you. James Taylor, I think you must know. But he's one of my biggest inspirations of all time. Yeah, fire and rain is one of my favorite songs of all time. Think about how many times he's saying that song now. That makes me feel better about calling maybe. And he's like, that sounds so much like him. And I should start a support group and be like, how many times did you sing your song? Do you get tired of singing Call Me Maybe? I mean, no, because it takes on quite a different-- I mean, the answer is no now. There was a definite time when the answer was yes, when that's like all I had made. But I think enough albums have come by, and enough shows have happened where it's now just sort of like an nostalgic moment. And it doesn't feel like my moment. It feels sort of like the crowd takes over. And you kind of feel people like me. And go, remember when and how this was a part of their life. So it feels celebratory. And it feels like a quick kind of moment in the set that sort of passes by, sweetly, yeah. It's also like I don't associate you as like with Call Me Maybe as I do with as much with runaway with me or your type. Or like, you know, like all these-- it's like I-- you are so much more of an artist than that just-- that one song. That's wild. And thank you. It's true, like it really is true. Like talking about listening to an album in completion, a motion is one of those albums that I can literally listen to front to back without skipping a song, because it just like takes me on this like masterful journey. It starts with runaway with me. And like, you know, and you're like basically asking the listener to run away with you, and it works. But before you released a motion, did you feel like this pressure to follow up Call Me Maybe or like frustration almost? You know, I felt a mixed bag of things that's hard to like totally go back there and remember. But I do remember a really clear moment of just like an epiphany that someone gave to me. My guitarist gave to me, actually, Tavish Crow, where we were walking in New York together. And he's sort of like my main man in terms of like adopted brother in a weird way. In my life, he's always been a support. And he sort of said, with this song, you now have a stage for the first time in your life to actually show the world what I already know about you, which is like all the other types of music that you have in you. And he's like, so if you stop thinking of like trying to follow that up, but instead just like know what you know and like now create what you want to, this could be an incredible opportunity. And it just like let this like I was thinking how am I going to keep doing the same thing because they like this. And that's one element of what I do, but it's not all of it. And I think ultimately if I had tried to keep making Call Me Maybe's, I would have been really deeply unsatisfied as an artist. So it was nice to honor that that's like one flavor of what I love. But he was right. It was a chance for me to kind of shake off any expectations and just do what I only know how to do, which is, you know, make music from a really honest place. But I wasn't able to go the right away. It's why I kind of took a detour and did like Cinderella. Right. I just like needed a second to like get my bearings, figure out what it was next. And that's how emotion was born. Yeah. Do you, I must ask how the song run away with me was born? Because that saw like that is one of the most cinematic songs of all time in my opinion. Did it start with the horns? Did it start with the lyrics? Yeah, it did. So this is a one I went to Sweden and the land of pop. It is the land of pop, right? And I met with Matthias and Robin and Noony Bow. And I think their, the producer's names were Matt men and Robin. I was so excited to meet them. And it was our, it was our meet cute actually. And they showed me a couple different tracks that, I think they played me like eight different things. And when they played the riff for the day, day, day, day, I like stood up and I was like, this one. Let's play all of this today. And we didn't really know what we were going to make yet. In fact, I think the beginning of the song that actually you hear today, that was our entry point, was the da, da, da, da, da. And it was to this line, Oh Dominika. Like it was a completely different way where I could just start it there. And I went home with a song about a guy named Dominika. Yeah. And I was like, all right, there's something to it though. And like a couple months later, we call again. And I was like, I think we need to go back to Sweden and finish this song. And we went back and we, we worked it. They even challenged ideas of the song that I thought were right. And then we got them better. I think in that song, I learned about the art of reworking something, because I think it took on four different forms or three different forms before we got it right. And it sounds quite simple, but doing simple pop is more complicated, I think, than people realize, because it's a lot about what you take out as much as what you keep in. And once we landed on it, I don't think we, we knew exactly how the world would respond, but we knew how we felt and we were all like dancing while we were making that song. I always think that's a really good sign. And when you released a motion, were you anticipating to call me maybe quick, fire, success, or were you ready for it to be more of like a slow burn of people to find it and love it and make it theirs? You know, it's interesting having a partner now, because he's really offered some perspective on my personality of like little blind spots that I didn't know. And I've become aware that I've always existed as like a little bit of a worst-case scenario person. Do you actually find comfort by thinking like, what's the worst possible thing that could happen here? Am I okay with it? I don't know if that's like a dark quality, or if it's just like how I've survived. It's just a quality. Okay, cool, cool, cool. For the same way. Oh, I'm the biggest catastrophe in the entire world. So when I say that I had no expectations, I had no expectations for it. Like I was pretty sure the world had forgotten that this was just going to be like some little pet project for me and that, you know, I would hope that if somebody got it, at least somebody got it. And so, yeah, no, if anything, I was just more delighted, even at our first little club show. I was like, they know the words. Like we put this out like four days ago and they know the words dead, not just one song, but every song. And that to me was a victory. And then what happened after that was sort of wild beyond my wildest dreams, to be honest. Yeah. What do you love about pop music? Like what, what is your, like, 'cause- How much time do you have? I have all the terms of the world. What did I just say that? I mean, the other thing is though, there's so much that I hate about pop music. And like, that's what I think is so interesting. And I've said this before, it's a genre that is like a love hate genre for me. Like when it's done well, I love it. And when it's done poorly, I cannot wait to turn it off. And I think just realizing, I think that we all have that reaction to pop music. I think that's why it's so like cutthroat. Yeah. Like it's a hard genre to play in because you're gonna- I think it's very rare you hear a pop song and you're like, "I'm okay on it." People have like intense opinions about it. And so do I. I don't know. I think that what I love is its ability to transport you to a feeling that maybe you've had before or that you want to feel that you haven't had yet, where you can kind of take on, in a very cinematic way, somebody else's emotion. I think its ability to connect people is very exciting. I love that part of it. I think that's the joy of my life of seeing the connections that happen and the way that it can kind of, I don't know, become somebody else's song and no longer yours. I think that that feels amazing to me when that happens. Well, when it's done badly, what do you think makes it bad? By the way, I have written a lot of bad pop songs myself. And when it happens, I'm like, "Oh God." And it haunts me to this day that I've like, "Let some of those out." But it's just, I mean, you're swinging your wrist. That's part of being in this too. But I think when it's bad, to me, when it's bad is you can tell. Even though when I say that simplicity, almost like a jazz song, you only have so many lyrics that you can get in there. Right. So each one counts. I think when you're not actually buying what you're selling. Like if you're talking about an emotion and you're just doing it for like the jingle sake of the jingle, but I don't know. I think there's a way to even do that well, where it's like fun and playful and you know what you're doing. But when you're like half-heartedly in it, I think sometimes that people are very intelligent and they can sniff that out really quickly. And you can't exactly put your finger on why, but it feels fake. Yeah. I think that is when I don't like a pop song. Yeah. Where it just feels, yeah, inauthentic. Yeah. Carbon copy. Like just sort of something about it feels cardboard. Yeah. Like, yeah. There's no depth there. Yeah. Do you know what I mean? Yeah, of course. I think that's why I resonate so much with your music. There is so much depth. It's so is. I keep saying it, but it's so cinematic. And like, you know, it's real. It's a tangible feeling. I think that's what's the beauty of pop music is like, it creates this like tangible like movie in your head. And I was thinking about being driven home by someone that I had to crush on and I was like, oh my god, yeah. I want to hear more about your crush. Oh my god. Oh, I don't think he wants anything to fucking do with myself, like literally nothing to do with me. I'm just at this point. It's so past the point. I can't even, I can't. I love that I get to work with Seeky because so many of my guests are musicians who get to go on tour. And if you end up listening to them and loving them, or if you already love them, you can use my code therapist for 10% off your order on Seeky. The reason Seeky is the best place to get tickets for any live event, whether it be comedy, Broadway, music, sporting. is because it rates your tickets that you would buy on a scale from one to ten. One mean not the best and ten being the best. So you know if you're getting a good bang for your buck. Also, if you click the link in the description and download the app, it will automatically apply the code "therapus" for 10% off your order. So you can see every concert, your heart desires, or every comedy show, or every Broadway show, or every sporting event you wish to see. Thank you again, Seekyke, for sponsoring tonight's episode. What pop artists are you listening to right now? Well, that excite you. Oh, so many. There's so many, I mean, I think that speaking of perfect albums, I think Robin has been top of her game. I mean, she's so inspiring in the fact that I feel like, she also kind of like took a break, figured out what it was that she had to say about pop and came back with such intention and then like blew the world away. But I feel like that's a cop-out answer that everybody picks. However, I'm going to go with it anyways. There's a reason for it. And I think she's brought an artfulness to pop that excites me to, because it can be thought of as like a frivolous genre. But I think there's such a thing as intelligent pop music. That's what I'm interested in figuring out how to make, you know. And I think she's one of the first people who showed me a really cool flavor of how to do that in her own way. And I wanted to figure out my own as well. Yeah, I mean, call your girlfriend's one of my favorite songs of all time, Dancy on my own. One of my favorite songs of all time, like-- All of that. It's just unbelievable. I mean, that whole album is insane. But yeah, I actually-- she's coming to L.A. soon. I got to take it, so you've gone. Wait, when is she coming to L.A.? Like soon. We have to-- I've never seen Dancy on my own life. We almost go. Let's go. Your 10-year anniversary show of emotion. And you're wearing the merch, man. Me and Manny were there. They were very cute. Manny, we were like stuffed in a group of people. And Manny said, excuse me. And she walked to the side, because she had today. I'm so hard. I love it. It was-- what did that feel like for you to do that 10-year anniversary? I mean, people knew every single lyric to that, to every single song, like, what did it feel like for you? It was a wild night. Well, first of all, I mean, I hadn't really announced it yet, but I was four months pregnant during that show, I know, which is wild. It's why we just did the one show. I was like, all right, this is going to be kind of crazy. And I remember both my family came to town, so my mother and my stepmother and my father and my stepmother were all in the balcony at the back. And every time I would kind of be in the moment because the crowd was just the best energy. So you're kind of getting lost in it. And I'd step on a speaker and my two mothers would be like, get down here in my heels, I'm like, oh, yes, sorry, sorry. But yeah, it was incredible. And I honestly, I can't explain the pain of sometimes putting out a body of work, and then you only get a short amount of time when you do a show. So you're kind of trying to pick a couple from a motion and a couple from Kiss and Dedicated and Lonely. And at this point, you're like, OK, well, I guess we can take the hits off each one. But when you actually get to go in and take your time with one album, I mean, we've played songs that I've never played live before. I never get to hold you. I've never really done that one before. And we're like, OK, so not only was it lovely from my band and I to revisit a body of work that we cared so much about, but to really get to go into the deep cuts in a way with a room full of people who got it was just-- it was that was lovely. I mean, your type-- do you know that I got to DM the other day? Because I think I posted something about-- oh, yeah, I posted that I was listening to a motion. And someone swept up and said, your type is like the anthem for gay guys who are in love with straight men. Have you heard that before? Yeah, yeah. It's true. I read that. I was like, damn. Yeah, it is true. That is when I heard that live, do you remember? I nearly fell to the floor. You were screaming it, screaming every lyric. And then when you said, you introduced boy problems, do you say, did anyone have boy problems? Did I have what screams? It was just-- It was a very sweaty, fun night. I mean, I always leave a show feeling like I need a shower. And I come home and there's some new glitter somewhere on my body that I didn't find. And I'm like, that's how I want to leave it, for sure. Yes. And so it was, it was really fun. You know who's doing their albums front to back right now is Lily Allen. She's on the-- I saw her. Yeah. I saw her that she came. It was really good. It was like an art-- like, I mean, I really-- I read while I listened to that album, because it was so salacious. It was so salacious. It was so salacious. Yeah, no. And I loved it. I feel like it was bold. And I almost think it played out like a musical. And so I was just-- I really, very chef's kiss. Good job, Lily. Well, speaking of musicals-- Yes. You and Lena Dunham are working on The Tennis. I'll make it one. You're making one. The ten things I hate about you musical. Yeah. How-- what is the process of that looking like? It is incredible. It's been like the dream of all dream projects. I mean, you can't really think of a better script to get your hands on. I mean, that story is iconic for a reason. And I think has a cult following for a reason. And our whole team is really like-- from day one, it was good. And then it's just gotten more and more stacked. So Ethan Grasquez, my writing partner, we're doing the music. Lena is working with Jessica Wong on the script. And we have Christopher Wielden, who's like choreographer/director, Valorina Extraordinaire, Tom Kett, who's like music director of my dream. So it just keeps getting kind of like, blow your mind wild. And I know I just like named dropped a bunch of people, but these are like the Wizard of Oz people to me. So I'm very, very proud. Well, you're a theater kid. I am a theater nerd, for sure. You were Annie and Annie. I haven't you know that. You were Sandy and Grace. Oh my gosh. Yes. Because I love you. I guess the internet does exist. Yes, I was. Oh, god. I mean, I joke because I was in a very small community theater in Mission BC, which is close to Vancouver in Canada. And on the night that Annie closed, I said to my parents, what if I'm just this child star? And they were like, no one knows who you are relaxed, but you know. But when you auditioned for Canadian Idol, was it was Canadian Idol as big in Canada as American Idol was here? I mean, at the time it felt big to me, but I was in it. Like I felt, it felt all encompassing, because it was my whole little wild world at the time. But yeah, what a, what a training and just like brutal takedowns publicly. You got to, you got to do a Canadian Idol or an American Idol run to see if you've got that like alligator skin for what the music business in. And I was happy to report that I kind of did. Yeah. I was like, this is wild, but I can like take it with a grain of salt. And then where was Call Me Maybe born after that? Well, it's actually an interesting like point to say, to ask that question, because I really don't think Call Me Maybe would have had its life without Canadian Idol. And what I mean by that is it was like my first exposure on TV, and I got third. So I actually had a pretty lucky run, because I had like the notoriety but no contract. Right. So it was like a beautiful place to start. And I was just looking for my way in and my way in to a management deal, to a label, to anything that could kind of help me be able to get these songs I was writing heard. And even like on Canadian Idol, I think in the editions, they had one role, which was just like sing a song, but not your own. And I was like, well, I'm going to sing my own, because I was like, this is my one chance on TV, like I was excited. But it ended up being really helpful in terms of securing those things. So I had a management team after that. I got signed to my first label deal. And there's this amazing thing that happened where I got to start making an album. And I met sort of like minded creators, Ryan Stewart, Josh Ramsey. And these producers helped me put together a body of work. And coming maybe was born with Josh and Tavish. And yeah, I don't think anybody expected it to take off the way they did. But that was just one of those lucky lightning moments that happened in life where you look back and you're like, I don't think we could have curated all that magic. Had we tried our hardest, it was just sort of being hit with, you know, some lightning, really. And Twitter kind of being at the beginning of what Twitter was. So it was just the stars aligning in a beautiful way. Yeah. Yeah. Do you have a favorite song off this upcoming album? I think I don't actually, which makes me happy because I feel like it's, it changes depending on my mood. That'll lay an answer. No. That's, that's a sign of a great album. By the way, you can never, I always say the sign of a perfect album is one where everybody has a different answer for their favorite song. I love that. I love it. A motion, you will say, what's your favorite song? Someone will say your type. Someone will say run away with me. Someone will say LA hallucinations or like Norman fucking Rockwell was on it, all right. Everybody has a different favorite song and like, that's the, that's the sign of like a ten out of ten album. Oh, well, here's hoping. I think my best answer is that right now for a day, I like blue skies. It's sort of my like attempt at trying to honor mini-ripperton, like with some psychedelic folk. And then for a night time right now, I'm going to say Neerafar. And I say Neerafar because it was the most like experimental track. And it almost didn't make the album because I got slightly in my head that it was too weird. And then I decided that that's exactly why I needed to make the album at the end of the day. So I went for it and I'm really glad I did. Yeah. Yeah. Where did the concept for this double album come to be? Quite simply, I do I couldn't decide what I wanted to do because I wanted to do two things so passionately. I really wanted to make a synth-based, intense nighttime album that felt like you're in your emotions. You're okay to go there. It's a little bit less like a story song and a bit more like an experience, so a lot of freeform writing in there where you're like little poems put to music kind of thing. And I loved that idea. And then I really also felt like something was calling me, maybe from a little bit of my childhood and my upbringing, too, about these kind of good old-fashioned story songs. But my spin on what I loved about the James Taylor's and stuff was how to play with something that felt a little bit more psychedelic than that. Something that felt a little dreamy a little bit like what I'd want to listen to in my life moving through the house. And they didn't start with the title day and night. It was just these two kind of lanes I was writing in. And when I would put something like wild child, which was like quite like a striptone acoustic number next to something like don't leave me on the dance floor, it was looking like I was having an identity crisis. And so I was like, I just need to like choose. And luckily it was again my guitarist, my little adopted brother, who like came to New York, heard what I was making and quite frankly was like, why don't we make it like a house party. Like there's an upstairs, there's a downstairs. Oh, I love that. I was going on and I was like, yes. And then later on when I was driving in Los Angeles, I was like day and night. And as soon as I knew that that's what I was doing, I kind of showed up with so much intention and excitement at every session after that. And then 12 and 12 was quite simply because I was like 24 hours in a day. Get it? Ah! Day and night. Day and night. Do you, are you planning on touring the album? Can you imagine if I made all of this body of art, and then I was just like, no, you know what? I could, because Bonnie Verre just put out this whole thing and was like, I'm not touring it. Wow. And I was like, no touring is the most fun part. Are you kidding me? The whole reason I make the music is so I can go to it. Absolutely. I mean, I haven't like officially announced anything yet and I don't know if I'm allowed to give this away, but we will 100% go and celebrate that one for sure. Are you struggling right now with like picking up which tracks to do because it's, there's so many. So I'll stop from emotion. You know, it becomes quite clear in rehearsals, which a song's translate, translate, sorry. In the cleanest, like, clearest way. And what I mean by that is sometimes like even a stripped down moment can be just as powerful as like a dancing moment, but you can't like know it until you, you put it on its feet. And that's what rehearsals for is kind of figuring out how these exist in real life outside from the studio, because even the way you sing in a studio is a completely different thing than the way you sing live, like it all changes. Well, I mean, with headphones in a small little box, with your eyes closed, feeling a thing in a soft way, it's a very different thing than sharing it in a room, even if it's the same song. And so I feel like if you can't capture that same intimacy with something and there's some songs you can do that with and there's other songs where it becomes a little bit more challenging than it's best, like, keep that for the record and do something different on stage or change it up. That's always an option too, but I've come to really love this trip down moment. It's like one of my favorite songs live actually has been collage, which I would have thought it was only a studio song, but actually translates really well to stage, because I feel like by the time we played in the set where usually we've sweated enough and we need to come down together anyway. You know what I mean? Yeah. Do you ever, like, doing festival shows? Are my favorite, actually, I mean, I really do love my own show as well because you get more to play with in terms of production and like really, I mean with the loneliest and loveliest time, I got very indulgent with my moon and I was like, "The moon will talk." Yeah, yeah, yeah. And it'll tell everyone to forget their worries and then we'll start to play, you know? And that's, like, you know, that's part of the fun. But I think a festival is fun because it's a lot of new energy. I think everyone you come to a festival, you're showing up to surrender your life for like a moment of being really present. Yeah. And I think when you show up with that energy, it's like a contagious thing. And so there's a lot of opportunity for really blissful moments to happen at festivals, I think. I agree. It's one of those things where it's just like everybody is like, it's a real moment of like being present. No one comes to a festival to be like, "I'm in the mood to have a bad time." Like you, right? Yeah. And if you have, go home. And if you have drugs and the wind is in your hair and like, it's just like, you feel like you're watching like Super Stardom. Like you know what I mean? Like that's what it feels like, a sunset set at like Coachella or something. The best. I recently went to Daisy Chain and we saw a chapel roll. How was that? I heard good things. It was awesome. And we saw Chapel Roan and I was just like so enamored and the sun was setting and the wind was in her hair and I was like this it's a moment. It's a moment. And I think in my own history of like discovering other artists, that's always the most magical place to discover a new artist. Yes. Like it's one thing to be like, "Oh, if a friend sent me this link to Spotify or if my friend sent me this like little, I don't know, YouTube video to watch." But like when you're like walking around and then you're like, "Who's playing that?" And you just gravitate to like, I remember that's how I saw Fist for the first time in Vancouver and she was like in a little like white trench coat in her white guitar and she was just playing and I was like, "Who is this?" And that's how I discovered her and I was like potent in my mind. It's like, "Wow." Yeah. I always say that's the best feeling on planet earth is discovering a song or an artist through a live performance because it will never be better. Absolutely. Tegan and Sarah too. That's how I learned. Really? Well, what are you watching on television right now or movie-wise? It's anything. I'm watching a very long drawn out but interesting show called "My Brilliant Friend" and am I getting that right? My brilliant friend. It's based off of a novel in Italy and Naples. These two- I think it is my brilliant friend. My brilliant friend. Yeah. And when I say I'm slow watching it, I have a six month old son so it's been years. Yeah. No. I actually just stopped watching it for a while and I just started again. Like two nights ago. I was like, "Oh, okay. He's asleep. Let me give it a go." It's good. Do you have ever written a song based off of something you've seen in a movie or a television show? Versailles. Really? Yeah. Versailles. Versailles. Versailles. I was staying at the Grand Hotel in Sweden and Stockholm, which is like my spot. And they didn't really have like, like, movie rental spots so you're just watching whatever is like on the TV, and Sophia Coppola's version of Versailles or Mary Antoinette was on. And I mean, like, the actual history of that is quite, quite heavy. But I was like, this version, this fantasy version, which is so indulgent on all about pleasure is really exciting to me. And I'm in this place with where, when I write recently, where I'm just kind of collecting whatever is being thrown at me in the day. So when I went into this session the next day, I was like, you know, the idea of Versailles is like almost like a metaphor for what it is to like slow down and like, live your best life. Like, that's interesting to me. And we even like slow the music down, of course, and slow. Yeah. And I was just about to embark on this like month-long vacation, maybe almost turned into two months with my partner at the time. He was my boyfriend and he proposed on this trip, but we were about to like, go venture into like a new era of like pleasure seeking the two of us. And Versailles was on the list of places we were going to go. So it was like front of the brain, but that is definitely a song that came from a movie. Wow. Yeah. That's so cool. Yeah. Also, do you prefer people call you Carly or Carly Roy? I think. I neither. I'll answer to both, but Carly is totally fine. Right, because when I was watching your, because I watched your Canadian idol audition and you were Carly Jepsen. Yeah. To kick fun fact, do you want to know how Carly Roy was born? Yes, please. I have never told this story. It is my full real name. Carly Roy Jepsen. He's always called me Carly Roy, but no one else did. My like high school was just Carly, Carly, and then on Canadian Idol, they said, right, you're full name. And I took it very literally, and I wrote Carly Ray Jepsen, and the next day they said, Carly Ray. And I was like, all right, maybe it's more memorable because it's a competition. Maybe that will remember. And then it stayed. And it's been that way ever since. Wow. It's not bad and interesting, but that's how it happened. It was. It was a big choice. It was just kind of a coincidence. Yeah. Wow. Well, Shane, you know, Shane isn't my last name. It's my middle name. There you go. And it came because I wasn't allowed to put my last name on Facebook, and it's half of the grade. Oh, because your parents were being protected? Yeah. That's so sweet. Yeah. And I wanted to make it. My last name was Roscoe. And I was like, I wanted to make it. Roscoe's so bad. And my mom was like, no, Shane. It worked. That's so sweet. Yeah. I love that you have protective parents like that. That's cute. So what do you, do you ever think about like what the world now that you have a kid? I don't think about the world. Like, like, like, like, to social media and phones and like, how you're in deal with that with like, like, your kid? Oh, my gosh. It's terrifying. Yeah. I mean, I try not to, you know, stay up in the night thinking about it, but it definitely comes to mind. It's something my husband and I consider. I mean, we are wondering about this idea of just like taking him, hiding away somewhere in a cabin in Canada and just like telling him that this little bubble we create is real life. Yeah. But probably not the best way to go at it. So I think we're just going to be careful about making sure that, you know, we're there for him and that we're being careful about how early he gets access to all of it. Yeah. My parents made me wait. That's good. I agree with that. Yeah. I think they did. Look at you now. You did great. You did great. - Well, Carly Ray. - Hey. - What? (laughing) What are you therapist about today? - Today, specifically. - Or it could be this week, this month. What are you angry about? - What am I angry about? - It could be something like for me. What I was angry about is I have a horrible deviated septum. And it sucks and I need to get surgery. - That does suck. - And I know I have a deviated septum and I went to a doctor, he said no, you don't have one. I said no, I do have one. - Okay, okay. Okay, mine's very specific because I just had a child recently, okay? But I was watching this, Jesse wears a podcast actually about being pregnant and the whole time, it's called, is it normal? And the whole time, you read all of these sort of like, or you hear all these women talk about all these crazy sort of things that happen during their pregnancy. And at the end, a doctor or a nurse comes on and says, - Yes, it is normal, but we don't know why because it's woman's health. And that pisses me off that there isn't more information and education about woman's health, especially, or we're out here just popping out baby's lift right in center, making the world go round. So that pisses me off. - Yeah. - It's a very valid thing to be pissed off about. - Thank you, thank you. - Piss me off, not just today, but all of the day. (laughing) (upbeat music) - What are some of your favorite lyrics you've ever written? - I am. - Yeah. - I don't know. Back off, gosh. - Maybe that you're most proud of. On emotion. - I think I liked, from one away with me, I'll be your center and secret. I liked that moment. I think that there is something I'd like to play with in terms of the coiness of being sort of the person who's the pursuer, but also being like, I want to do however I'm not going to make it too aggressive. - Right. - It's trying to find that nice little balance. - I think that's why I resonate with it so much 'cause it's like, it's almost like this shyness of it, but it's like, please pursue me. Like, do you know what I mean? It's like, please just come with me and be in love with me, but like, I'm not going to try too hard. - I actually, I've been curious about what it is that makes you feel so alive when you are the person who is the pursuer. It's something that I've been talking about a little bit, but do you know what I mean? When you put yourself out there and you tell the person that you want them and it's kind of a little scary and you don't know what the reaction's going to be, it's like one of the times to be alive. - So I'm like, I'm actually like dealing with that right now, talk about my crush. - I'm so glad about that. - I know, yeah, I know. - It's really why I came. It's like, how did you know? - Because I'm like, do I say to that, 'cause we're like, having this back and forth, but then he is like, but my friend will come to dinner and I'm like, but I don't want your friend to come to dinner. And I'm like, do I just ask him out or do I get to know him more? It's like, it's, I don't know. I definitely don't have all the answers, but I do think that it's confident to know what you wanted to say it. - Right? - Yeah, I do. - That's what I think too. - I think so. - Oh, also another question. This sword thing. - Oh, yeah. - How did this begin? For those that don't know, you were given a sword at almost everyone in your shows now. - Yeah. - And it started. - I mean, you're asking me, but I also am just as confused as everybody. But basically, I've been told that there was like campaign that was started by somebody online. And it was like, I want to give her a sword. And the answer was like, just because I think she deserves one. And somehow it got signed by a couple of people or something. You're going to have to do a fact check on this. But it caught wind. - Yeah. - And then lo and behold, I was like at a show and a couple of people decided to see it through and gave me like an inflatable sword or like a wooden sword or like concerned about how that got in. But still got a sword. And then I was handed one on stage and I was just as confused as everybody and I was like, oh, a sword. And then that caught wind. And now I've given swords left right inside. I can like make one of those little chairs from the Game of Thrones with like inflatable swords. - You should. - Yeah, I should, I totally should. - What inspired you to start putting out like B sides of your records? - I didn't want to. I, I knew I had overwritten for a motion and I was not the only person who was aware of that fact. So my A&R at the time was named John Eman and he was like, can we do something with these like other songs? I think that there's some potential here and I was really nervous about it. I was like, I fluctuated. I was excited and then I was nervous and then I think the night before the release, I called him and I was like, I want to bail. I don't want to do it. It's a bad idea. And he was like, can you just trust me? It's a B sides. People will understand that it's like allowed to be a bit more experimental or songs that you're like a little less sure of. And I'm really glad that he talked me into it because it became this place where now I look forward to it, where it's like, oh, the B sides is where I go to play. It's like the time where I'm getting a little weirder and a little bit more experimental. And so with dedicated, I knew I was gonna make one. With the loneliest and the loveliest time, I kind of knew that was gonna happen. And with this project, I would say that the whole thing is like a mix of just me playing and being weird. So it's like not really like a distinguishing A and B sides. They're both kind of equally important to me and I wanted to show it all at once 'cause I showed up with that kind of intention, yeah. - Yeah. - Yeah. - Do you want to, I know this is a stupid question, but do you wanna make music forever? - I can't imagine a world where I don't create music in a part of my life, but I don't know. I think that it depends. I don't wanna force it. I think what's been really lucky so far is it kind of just visits me in my day. Like I'll be playing with my son in the morning and like I'm not ready, we'll come and I like need to like record it. And I hope that I can like look at it later when I have time or a lot of times there's certain people who I just have that sort of spark with and on this project Nate Seiferd and Kyle Scherer were two of those people where we'd get in a room and it was really effortless. And like we'd leave and we'd have like a week of that and we're like, we wrote like five songs for the album in five days and it was easy and they were all very different. And I think when I have those connections and friendships it would be hard to ever wanna give it up 'cause it really feels like magic. It's like the part of life that feels quite like my favorite, my favorite part of it. And so yeah, I can't imagine, I can't imagine not but I don't know that it always would be something that I would share in such a big way. Right now feels like a really fun time to share 'cause it's been a really prolific season but we'll see. - Yeah. Do you remember a studio session that you felt like just was one of your favorite of all time, one of your favorite memories in the studio? - Well, it's funny that you talk about "Run Away With Me" because that was really a special day. And I was meeting like Noony who became like a lifelong friend and Matthias and Robin and we worked together on a few other things and so that was really special but I would say for like this day and night album, what was really cool was getting to work on some of the songs with my partner. And it's a really strange thing to write with your partner because you have like no filters. So in other spaces where you would be like, like someone would say an idea and maybe you don't like it and you'd be like, yeah. - Okay, like that's interesting. Let's like, let's try it. And then you like try it and then you kind of try something else and you like gently get to like a place for your happy again and you're like, okay, you know, sorry. With your partner, you're just like, I hate that so much. I hate it so, and you just like cut straight to, and you move on fast and it's like cutthroat and real and like sexy and fun and like, I don't know. I think him and I got to a place where like we know each other really, really well and we can write in a really honest way and actually have learned to carve out space for what each other does. So I know what he does and he knows what I do and we kind of just like move around each other a little bit. Well, just a little walk on the moon is a good example of a song that we wrote together in the Philippines actually in our hotel room. And I think I was in the bath and he was like in the living room and I was like singing it to him and he was playing it on the guitar. And like, I just, I'm like, I would have never thought that I wanted to date another musician, but now that I'm like married to one, I'm like, it's the best. Like it, it just allows for music to kind of throw like braid its way through our lives in a really natural way. And I think him and Tavish Crow, like I talked about, are two of my like soulmate writers and it's such a delight to be married to one of them. It's so beautiful. How did you guys meet? We met, we were set up on a session. Oh no. Yeah, we were set up on a session and it was, it was an interesting little meet cute actually. I thought he was like a dance producer at first, but it turns out no, he was, he was not. He was, I actually, yeah. It took me a second. We both had kind of a friendship brewing at the very beginning. We were friends for like a year first. Fuck, okay, I think I need to do that with my crush. But that's how I've always actually landed on relationships. Fun fact is I will generally like watch them from a friendship distance for a year until I decide and realize that we might be in love. But it's like, it's like a nice vetting system because you get to know them a bit more honestly when they're not presenting as a date. And they're just being your friend, you know? And I think that that's like a really cool way to observe somebody. Yeah, I don't know. No, it's patience, which I don't have. Yeah. Well, I mean, I have a lot of fear. So that's where my tactic comes from. As I'm scared to step into something until I know it's a good idea. Are you scared, like, do you have like rejection sensitivity or are you like sensitive to rejection or? Not bad. I would very happily. in a relationship for a wild experience knowing that it will be a fun time and a couple good songs. But I think that that's also maturity of realizing that that burns out pretty fast. I think it's more that I'm careful who I let into my circle. And I want I want to make sure that it's it's good people even if it's a for a brief encounter. Yeah. Yeah. Are you ready to tell me what's wrong? I'm excited. My boyfriend insisted on wearing shorts to my friend's wedding. He wouldn't budge either because of the heat wave. And he got word that some of the other men were doing it too. I'm so embarrassed and can not get the image out of my head. Help. I don't know. I think I think it's kind of sweet. But maybe I'm just like romanticizing it. But like if I think it's sweet to be embarrassed of your partner sometimes. Okay. Like because if they're so themselves like in my wrong like. I like it. It's a fine. Yeah. I don't know if I agree. Really? I think it's sweet that he it was there was so embarrassed say it's so dorky. Well I guess because then that means they care. No, my thing is just like oh so embarrassing but like I love him. Yeah. Okay. If you land with that. If you circle back with so embarrassed. But I love you. Great. Yeah. And also if other people are wearing shorts then what's it's fine. If other people are wearing shorts then whatever. Okay. Yeah. Yeah. I got into business with my close friend and it's a disaster. He is unorganized. Does not hit deadlines and leaves the majority of the work up to me. However, he has great ideas and we build this together. I don't know how to proceed. I just wish I had it mixed business with friendship. Any advice? That's tricky. I think except the guy's not going to change and figure out what he's going to and give him more of those jobs and if you need to bring in a third party because you feel overwhelmed by carrying the weight of the rest then bring it a third so that it doesn't land all on you. Was it hard for oh I guess now I guess you and your partner initially met be a work. We did. So it's much different. We did. But he also is a very hard worker. So it's it's it's good. You know. But also yeah people do you believe that people change? If they want to but not if you want them to. I think people are very capable of change but it has to come from them. Now I'm realizing that I think people can. I think it's the whole point of life. I think that we're on a journey to change and grow and hopefully if we're doing it right get better. Right. I was thinking about another guy I work with while being intimate with my boyfriend of three years. I literally feel like the worst person ever. It only happened once before this but what do I do. I'm so gross like I'd be sick if roles were reversed help. They were just thinking about them. Yeah. Oh give yourself a break. Right. You're a human being. You're thinking about a person. You're allowed to do that. Yeah. I feel like people are much harsher on themselves these days than they used to be. I mean I would say agree if that's how everyone's feeling. You're allowed to have a little fantasy here and there. No. No. Yeah. What do you think, Manny? I always like to say well how do I phrase this? I don't know. Anytime I'm in love with someone else like I have a huge crew. I just saw a movie last night. I was in love with the lead. Literally texted him. I'm in in love with this person. What movie? Finding Emily. Okay. I'm in love with the lead. Okay. I went home to visit my parents. I was the last child to leave the house and since I've been here they've low key. They've been low key slipping up saying their lives are so great and that they feel so refreshed lately. It's so clear that they needed me the fuck out of there. My feelings are really hurt by this. I thought we all got along great. I think that's amazing. I mean explain more. So so they're they were the last they were the last child to leave the house and now their parents are empty nesters and the parents are like loving their lives. Okay. And now this kid is feeling bad that their parents are enjoying their life but I think that's the point of life. Well I would say that it's pretty amazing that the parents are like having this new life and you should be happy for them. I would say that it also hurts a lot more to see your parents upset that you've gone and not have a fulfilled life without you. Is that what happened for you or your parents? Did they mourn your lot? Like your name? All the time. My dad calls me like 10 times a day. I love him very much but like I think he misses. He needs to move on. I think he misses having. He needs to move on. Having me home. Oh that's very sweet. It's very sweet but it's very sad. Like I wish that he was like this is the best thing ever. Like you know like I would prefer my parents to be like we are so happy that you're out of the house. Okay. Because I think that would make me feel good because I want to see them happy. You want to see them having a hobby. Yeah. A new lease on life. Yeah I think my mom is happy. She's always like traveling like doing whatever but like my dad is definitely like misses having me. I think that's very sweet. Yeah. I feel like I mean that should give you a little confidence first. People are achieving so many things at such a young age. What am I doing wrong? Why did it become something negative to do the traditional way of life? You know like school then job etc. Oh I don't know. I think that the feeling I feel there is just don't compare. I think social media. Keep your eye on the prize. There's there's no wrong way at it and it's very yeah social media does allow that. Even my my my I think everyone is able to succumb to the comparison thing. My mother makes jewelry and everyone's gonna watch it but like I saw this how the woman was wearing really funky hats. I was like the hats aren't how first of all why are we talking about another woman's hats? Like just do your thing. I think I think that's like the way to live a good life to make good art. It's just kind of stick to the path that feels like yours and don't worry about the outside noise what other people are doing. Did you ever find yourself comparing yourself to other acts when you first came out to the scene? I felt it was really important to define what it was that I was contributing. So I thought a lot about like who am I what am I doing what what does that mean in terms of what clothes I wear and how I present myself and I think I thought about it too hard where I was just sort of more open and sponging to anybody else who might have an idea so I think when I was 26 and first came to Los Angeles and everyone was like we think it's like this in the market and I'm like okay well if you got an idea because I don't yet but once I started to realize that no one was going to have a better idea of what works for me rather than me. I kind of ticked the reins back on that but I wasn't looking like oh that girl's doing this and I should copy her. I was very actually uninterested in doing anything that felt like copycatting to me that felt like if I if I didn't know what to do I knew I didn't want to do that. And what made and what made you from after calling me maybe want to go back to your theater roots? I it sounds like I was smart and had a strategy. It wasn't like that. I just got a phone call and I just said yes like it was just like yes that sounds like really right now. Yes that sounds like the right choice. And sometimes I feel like the best decisions that I've made have been ones where I don't overthink it too much and I just sort of try it on and feel it and jump. And I remember getting I got the offer while I was on a plane and I thought I want to do this and I feel really happy that I took that left turn. It's like actually brought so much you know even with 10 things now I'm like I don't think 10 things would have happened had I not said yes to Cinderella back then you know. Oh I'm so excited to see 10 things. That's going to be amazing as well. I mean I mean you like you and Lena Dunham together just feels like pure magic. Thank you. Did you watch girls? Are you kidding me? I like rewatched it recently after her book came out because I was like kind of watching in tandem with Radiant and God just like brilliant. That book is really really incredible. Yeah I mean she's an incredible one and so yeah I think I think it is my I think it's time that I I rewatched girls again. I rewatched it when I was like 23 fresh out of college and I think I need to watch it again with new eyes. So so so good. Yeah so good. So good. My boyfriend uses Shazam in public constantly and I've gotten the egg. I use Shazam every day. I use Shazam yesterday. I know this is silly but it's like every time we're at the mall and it's playing the most generic music ever he pulls out his phone standing in the middle of everyone walking around him holding it to the sky is this valid new. Yeah I think if you're getting the egg over something like that there's deeper issues going on. Thousand percent. Yeah. I was watching pen 15 yesterday and there was like a needle drop at the end and I Shazam did and it's my favorite thing in the world to Shazam song that I love and be like oh this is my new favorite song. That's the thing and they were talking about festivals earlier but that's a beautiful way to discover music. I agree. Yeah. Also like it's he's yeah that is that is a strain does one of the strangest eggs I've ever heard. It's a really strange one. Yeah. It's the way to call you out whoever you are before we end. Yes. It is Manny's birthday. Oh my goodness happy birthday girl. Hey and I was just wondering we have a cupcake if you could sing happy birthday to her. Only if we all do it together. Of course. Okay. But this would you're her favorite artist and this would be her dream from Drew. Louise do you have the cupcake? Are we starting? Happy birthday to you. Happy birthday dear Manny. Make a wish. Yay. Happy birthday. This is like the best birthday ever actually. This is one of the best moments of my life. Oh, honey! I love you. I love you so much. I love you. Oh. Amazing. Amazing. Well, what are your birthday plans tonight? I'm getting a massage, and then I'm just hanging out with my family and getting Thai food. Well, Carly Rae, what did we learn today? We learned that Shazamine is controversial. Apparently so. So controversial. I said, though, why is that a hard word? Controversial. My brain is much at this point. What else did we learn? We learned-- We learned-- It's Manny's birthday. We learned that. We learned that it's Manny's birthday. And we learned that your new album, Day and Night, is out now. It's out now. It's out now! And it is your eighth studio album. We're counting the B-sides. Five plus eights. [MUSIC PLAYING] (upbeat music)