Session 141: Towa Bird

Endless summer escapes start here. Travel the worlds of Netflix IRL. Inspired by fan favorites like Stranger Things and Squid Game. Brave the upside down. Face off with the front man. Play leveled up arcade games. Shop exclusive merch. And enjoy themed food and drinks. Beat the heat. Play, eat, and shop on repeat at Netflix House at Galleria Dallas. Bring your crew and save. Get your tickets today at netflix.com/house. Hi pussies, welcome back to Therapuss. Tonight we have on my dear, dear, dear friend, Toa Byrd. She is so exceptional as a musician, as a friend. I just adore her. And I'm so grateful I got to talk to her about her new album, Gentlemen, which is fantastic. If you have not heard it, you must. She is incredible. Toa, I love you. Thank you for coming on the show. Yes, I did get a buzz cut. And not only did I get a buzz cut, I went back yesterday and I got it shorter. To the point where I was like, maybe I got it a little too short. I keep looking at myself. One thing about a buzz is when you open your camera roll, it is very jarring. But what's even more jarring is how long my hair was before. And that's something to sit on. Well, enjoy the episode. I love you pussies. Toa, I love you. Go stream her new album, Gentlemen, out now. Well, no, Toa's my girl. Like, you don't understand. - No. - Toa protects me on nights out. - I actually do. I'm like your bodyguard. - Toa and Renee protect me on nights out, not from anything specific, just like from life. - We're like your lesbian moms. We're like just constantly over your shoulder. It's like the devil and the angel. And we sort of take turns. - You do take turns. I did not know you were born in Hong Kong. - Yeah, fun fact. - A fun fact. - Fun fact, indeed. - I can't even believe we like haven't discussed this. - I know because we all, we, have we ever hung out? - We're usually just drunk. - Yeah. - We're usually drunk. - Have we ever hung out normally? - And that's okay. - I think, I think, no. I think no. I think no. I think no. - I think no as well. - Yeah. We, I think we have tried. - We've tried. - And then we have failed. - I was texting Renee today and she said, if we don't do dinner, like it's, we have to do it soon. - Yeah. Yes. - We've seen each other at Anna Jack Thai. - Oh my God. That was so cute. - That was so cute. It was the best time in LA. - It's so good. That was really cute. That was such a cute day. I remember you were like, I need to leave. - Oh, as always. - But that's like, so your thing isn't it? - Yeah, 'cause I eat a lot and then I'm like, I have to go, I have to go, I have to go. Have you ever had a Chipotle hangover? - Are you experiencing that right now? - I shot out about at 2:00 AM. Just like my head hurt from the sodium. - I, so the last, I've had Chipotle maybe once or twice in my life. And the last time I had it, I swore that I would never do it again because of what my body, my body experienced. - I literally like shot out about at 2:00 AM and 'cause there was so much sodium in it that it felt like I drank. - Yeah, yeah, no, you're hung over from Chipotle. - Yeah. - I experienced needing to literally shit everything out. - I wish I had that experience. - With my body at 2:00 AM. And it was really. - Not it. - That was like three years ago. And now I'm a grown and changed man from it. Yeah. - How have you been doing? I miss you, mean with my little brace. - Your tiny little paw. - What happened? - I. - Should we talk about it? - Yeah, I don't. - It was because we weren't there. To protect you. - It's 'cause you were, it's 'cause my lesbian mothers were not there. - That's, that's where you went wrong. - I know. I know. - I know. - But I like, I think I have tendonitis or something or something like my tendon is super swollen and it's like. - Oh God. - I know. - So it wasn't like. - It wasn't anything interesting. - Nothing like happened and then now you have an injury. - I just woke up and it was like, it was hurting and then it kept hurting and then it just got really swollen. - Damn. - I know. - I'm sorry. I hate an injury. - More than anything. - Okay, last time, one of the last times I saw you. No, maybe this was like the time before last. We were on a front porch and I had crutches. - Oh, you did have crutches. - I had crutches. - I thought you were about to bring up how drunk I got that night 'cause I received multiple texts the next morning. - No, I would never air you out. Without your consent, without your consent. This is your house, baby. - Thank you. - You can talk about whatever you want. - Thank you, thank you. You did have crutches. - I had crutches. - But you were out. - And I had crutches. - I mean. - You were out and about. - We have to persevere. We cannot let these things like crutches stop us. - No, and I can't let this stop me. - But everyone was taking turns on the crutches. - Yeah, they were. - People were like. - They were, they were like the toy for the night. - Yeah, yeah. - Did you feel cool on crutches? - No, it was so uncool. - What happened again? - The novelty wore off in like five minutes. And then I was like, fuck, I'm on crutches for real at the club. - Yeah, that was a fun bar. - It was really fun. - Have you been back to that bar since? - No. - Neither have I. We should do a night. - We should do a night. - Are you, well, first of all, congrats on the album. - Thanks, bae. I feel so far away from it. - I know. - But this, I'm really on the therapist's couch, for real. - You know, Renee was like one of the first guests. I think she was the first. She might've been the first person, the first guest I ever recorded with. - Really? - Yeah. - Oh, that's so cute. - I know, I know. It's so full circle. - Damn, that's actually really sweet, Jake. - I know, I know. - And you've been you've been doing so many great episodes. Fuck. - It's been, it's been a lot. Thank you. But are, how, okay. Well, congrats on your album. - Thanks, thanks girl. - Are you planning on touring? - We'll have to find out. - Right. - Let's see. What are you seeing? - Do you like tour? - I love tour. - Okay. - I love playing shows. I love playing live. So excited. I played in LA. Like I did a small like album release show, maybe. - Two weeks ago. Oh, the album's been out for 10 days. Holy shit. - Yeah, I was about to say the album is out. - Yes, it's out. She's out. - She's out. - She's out. She's 10 days. I was gonna say sober. She's 10 days born. - She's 10 days. She's 10 days old. - She's 10 days old. - How are you feeling about it? - So like weird. So good and really like excited and grateful. And it does feel like the most accurate representation of who I am right now. But then also the kind of the up and down of it all where you put something out and then you're suddenly susceptible to everybody's reception. And that can feel really, I don't know. It just like decalibrates you for a second because you're like so sure about this one thing. And then suddenly everyone has an opinion about it. And even if it's overwhelmingly positive, you're like, whoa, wait, this changes how I feel about myself and my value as well as the work. - Do you feel like you need to turn, like get off the app? - I'm not trying to be on the apps really. - Yeah. - It's crazy. - I like post and then I run. - Run, yeah. Because are you like easily swayed by opinion? Like if I like feel like sometimes like, well, it's very different. I don't put out music. But when I put out something that I think is funny and someone tells me it's not funny, I'll be like, wait, is it not funny? - Everything you do is funny though, Jake. - Oh, it's so funny. - I actually brought up the George Washington skit that you did. - Oh my God. - I gotta do these skits again. - This was how many years ago? - Two. - Really? - Yeah. - Oh my God, it feels like a decade. - It's been a really long time. - And how that was like, so, like one of the funniest pieces of comedy that I had seen. - Oh, I shout it out all the time. - I was like, you're just like in your house and it's so you. And it's like hanging out with you. I don't know, it's so nice. - Thank you. But yeah, I feel you on like the people receiving things in a way that you didn't. I didn't think they were gonna be received. It's like, it like keeps you up. - Yeah, and it changes the way you feel about your work, but not necessarily in a bad way. It just kind of changes it. - Yeah. - And so I'm kind of experiencing that where people are receiving it and I'm like, okay, like I'm responding to your reception and that's gotta be okay. Like I just have to kind of accept it. - It's, I feel like for musicians, what I've like learned is from you guys is like, when you put out a song, like, it's not really, it's yours, but it becomes everyone else's and like everyone else attaches meaning to it. So it must be so not like weird, but like jarring to have people like attach meaning to a song like you meant for the song to go one way and it goes another way, not necessarily bad, but just different. - Yeah. But also, yeah, that's also kind of the beauty of it all is like you can write one song and you be very, very clear about what it is and someone can interpret it for themselves incredibly differently. And that's also the beauty of doing what we do. - Have you ever interpreted a song so differently than the artist like meant to have it interpreted or? - Oh my God, that's such a good question. Have you? I'm like trying to think. - Uh huh. - Tell me, tell me yours. - I'm trying to remember, but I remember speaking to someone once and being like, this is what I like, this is how I felt about it. And they were like, oh no, that's not what I meant. - No way. And you were talking to the artist? - Yeah, that I remember like being like, no, that's not. And they were like, but it's cool that you feel that way. - Yeah. - But that's not like, or maybe I had seen them like they'll do like a BTS of them writing it. And I was like, oh, that's not how I interpret it. I think that's why like I've been like on it, like a huge Bon Iver kick. And I've been listening to- - He's so gas. - So good. - He's so good. - So gas. - He's so good. - So gas. So gas. - Like get a little wrist? - You know what I've been wanting trying to incorporate in my vocabulary lately, but I can't like for the life of me do it properly. - Tell true, Jake. - Do you rate it? I do rate it. - I'm sold. - Really? - It worked, yeah. charmed okay like i like rate bonnie bear like that's what i would say like i rate him i like love how like the brits say that yeah i rate that yeah well you know it sounds very good coming from you but he gets that's his music is so up for interpretation that like like he's just saying something and like i saw like a jacob elordi interview where he was like anything that like he has like certain sounds and lyrics that like they just like make sense to you yeah i kind of view lana kind of similarly yes yeah trapdoor mama yeah do you know what i'm talking about phineas and billy video trapdoor mama trapdoor what what what is she saying and like that and like chateau marmon that and like uh adele dazeem yeah those two clips are constantly playing in my head they are two sides of the same coin yeah they really are they they are and that's that's the beauty of life that is that is the beauty of life trapdoor mama but i've also been listening to like a lot of like music that is so obviously not about how i take it and it's so interesting to hear you say like from an artist perspective how you receive that i'm gonna costume change real quick are you guys lunch people do you have lunch i am a dinner person because i like to eat and go to bed whoa yeah so there's no break between eating and going to bed no it's like remember when i saw you i said i have to get out of here because i have to go to bed is that because you crave like solitude i want to be lying down i can't i just i overdo it because i smoke every time before and then i overdo it i'm like just time for bed i gotta go to bed i can't think about this i can't think about anything bedtime bedtime yeah yeah i personally crave solitude so much like i love being alone yeah have you always been that way i think so yeah i think so i love being alone what about it do you love i get to just like actually think i don't know i feel like i'm so i'm such a i'm not really like an introvert or an extrovert i'm somewhere in the middle i'm not like an introvert i'm not like an ambivert or whatever it's called oh i didn't even know that was a thing like i i love being around people and like get super charged off of it but i also equally love being alone i also think it's good for like creative people because if you're still enough you actually get the ideas coming through like if you like sit still enough if you're if you're bored that's when like the good ideas come through which is why you hear so many artists being like came up with it in the shower like came up with it like waking up is because your brain is kind of you're not really occupied with something else just yet right you're kind of in this place of limbo and this place of boredom and then you're able to yeah come up with stuff do you when you come up with like song ideas or uh melodies do you like put them in like a voice app or notes or write it down i'm a notes app girly i love a notes app huge into notes my notes app is a fucking mess what is it is it different like sections or is it just one straight thing one it's one one straight thing yeah it's crazy but i have like different notes for different like parts of my like i have like a working out note where i put like do you have that too no yeah i have like different i saw your pull-up video oh did you like that's what that's kind of what happened you were flying girl i was flying you were flinging and flying i was flying around i'm trying really trying to do 12 in a row i'm really trying to do 12 in a row it's really hard i'm gonna try tomorrow if my wrist feels better but i don't think it will i don't think i can do a pull-up i don't think so i think you could i haven't tried in many you're kind of like i'm trying you're kind of ripped jake i'm trying you look ripped like you look great that that is like the highest form of compliment well it's the first thing i thought you took off your jacket i was like oh my god wait jacked have you been on a workout grind yes i have i feel like my whole life is kind of i'm like a sports gal oh really i grew up playing sports what would you football soccer i knew i i by the way and i knew you were gonna say that why do i get because like everyone that doesn't live in the united states plays football soccer yeah but i feel like so many especially so many women play football here it's so cool oh yeah it's a huge it's huge for women here yeah it's huge i hear women's soccer far more than i hear about men's soccer in the u.s it's i love that it's so cool to me because it's such a male-dominated sport where i grew up and where did you primarily grow up so i was kind of like back and forth with between hong kong and thailand for like the first like 16 years of my life that's so cool it's really cool yeah i've been dying to go to both places i've never been really yeah i've never surprised me i i'm not the best traveled person in the entire world i really am desperate to go to thailand yeah it's it's amazing i'm going for my best friend is getting married um in like february of next year i'm gonna go to her wedding what's like i'm gonna stun i know this sounds i'm gonna make it about me she doesn't know that yet well that's the point of wedding yeah like why else would you go it's like this is your only this is your this is the best day of your life yeah well if you're asking me to make a speech like she hasn't asked me to do that because she knows that i'm gonna make it about myself well you have to what did growing up in between thailand and hong kong like look like for you like what did that like what what brought you between both places my my parents i think they're they're both kind of quite nomadic people in nature like they they're curious and they like to move around a lot um like they both moved away from their homes to hong kong when they were in their early 20s too so they they just like to explore yeah you know it wasn't necessarily like their jobs that made them do that it was just like the way that they are as people and i think you know i've lived in four countries and i think they've probably rubbed that off on me a little bit what do you notice is the biggest difference in americanized thai food and chinese food than the actual like chinese food and thai food in the countries i feel like they're they're almost like different things like they it doesn't even necessarily feel like a similar it's like a separate cuisine it's kind of like a separate cuisine and both of them are so good but it just feels a little bit different i feel like thai is a little bit closer right but like american and like british chinese food versus like hong kong chinese food feel quite separate um i don't i think i i guess it's like immigrant like chinese families had to basically figure out a way that they could cook for like the white palate as well and like kind of make a business um as well as like integrating their culture right um so i feel like it's different and it's it's both amazing and like yeah do you have a dish a favorite dish from hong kong that they don't serve here in the states or thailand oh my god it's such a good question i feel like i haven't had like egg waffles that have been really good here yet like uh hong kong style egg waffles they're like these little i don't even know how to describe it it's it's i need to like show you a picture it's they're they're gorgeous i want to go to hong kong so badly and you can just like get them from like the auntie on the side of the road and it's it's the best thing you've ever tasted oh i'm so jealous that you got to like experience yeah yes her let me see her like you wouldn't think that oh that looks amazing oh my god that looks amazing yeah it's it's really good and then you can like put little they will sometimes fill them with like nutella or like whatever condensed milk would you say like it's like a little dim sum is a more americanized version of no that's that's very much like traditional okay because i love dim sum yeah where do you go to get like do you ever do you have any places that you go to get like traditional in chinese food honestly like not really yeah like i almost i almost wait because i go home quite a lot and your parents are in yeah my parents are in hong kong so i kind of just like i just hold out and yeah but um chifa is really good it's not it's like um a fusion of cantonese and peruvian food the guy who's helped me like creative direct this whole rollout he owns chifa um umberto umberto leone i know him he doesn't know him he doesn't know him he doesn't know him yes yes dude he's the best he's awesome i met his kids right i saw them at the cat's eye show so they're two the two like cutest oh yeah they're adorable they always have a creative direction they always have a set on their nails are always amazing really yeah they're like 12 and they always are like oh set it i wish i was doing my nails like that at 12 i was just painting them you're painting them i was my friend my my my because i i don't know if i like i want to commit to the full polish now but my friend what he does is he'll get shiny buff on his nails and he'll get a different color on his feet every time because you can't see the feet most of the time you should see my feet it's crazy down there really it's crazy down there like what do you mean crazy so i got i got this is kind of nasty no maybe it's not actually maybe it's not i mean i just told you that i had a chipotle hangover so so i got i got a like a gel manicure or on my on my little toesies and it has stayed for so many months that's going to gel and i'm like i didn't ask for gel but then suddenly i was getting gel and like the little light on my on my feet right um and they're like so renee actually chose the color because i was like girl whatever you want like yeah you know you have to look at my feet all the time so like just decorate them how you want and she was like i want them to be like pink sparkly so they're like So they're like Pepto-Bismol. small pink they're like the most outrageous color of pink i've ever seen i've been in a pink phase lately so six months six six months yeah you've had the same color for six months yeah i'm like i well i need to go back to the salon to get them taken off but i'm like at this point i might as well just ride this shit out no you ride it for as long as you can that's and they haven't chipped i just keep trimming them down and they haven't chipped and they have they have the roots of the nail grown out the roots are like okay so it's like over halfway got it so it's like roots in a hair totally yeah totally yeah that's what i mean by yeah overshare well i mean but that's my i've made a career out of oversharing and that's but that's also what i do with you all the time whether or not we're in the setting right exactly um so you watch paradise oh i'm so glad we get to talk about you know it's my it's been my favorite show yeah renee was like what's your favorite show i don't know i don't know what's your favorite show i don't know because you guys watch it together yes she was like yeah she'll be mad if i if i if i like do an episode without her she would be mad so i wouldn't even i wouldn't dare are you caught up yeah yeah i think i yeah like he runs through the yeah what do you think of the finale amazing amazing i you know they're only doing three seasons oh god i know so next season's the last wait i'm grieving i know already this is really sad i know what do you think's gonna happen do you have any predictions like i think it's all about time travel and he is um sinatra's son in a different dimension that has fallen into this he is so hot the hottest person he is so hot i'm like how do i look like that no i and see that i want to look like that yeah like in another life i was born his height with his body proportions like that would be amazing for me personally yeah i wish that i could grow a beard like that imagine have you ever tried to grow a beard nothing's happening okay i'm in a place of stasis unfortunately with my beard like have you wanted to no movement um grow a beard yeah just for a vibe yeah like it would be kind of fun to have a little beard oh i hate how fast my facial hair grows really i have to shave oh you you could have the beard i could and i so we should swap you should have the beard for me really or we could be each other's beards yeah in another life we're married and we're each other's and you just take care of me yeah as you do on a night out i know i hold you like this every night and i rock you to bed that's what i want like i like i don't think the viewers understand just how much time toa renee me peyton and julia have spent together oh dude i ran into peyton in new york is she not the best i feel like i don't know if this is an accurate read of her but the amount of joy that emanates off this person yeah i'm like like every day is the best day ever she really tries to make it such even if it's not it's so great yeah it's she's really also just so funny and so her and renee together when they're in the room together like i like just i laughed the entire time no and i also i don't want to talk because i don't want to take up any more room than i already am like it's their show and i just get to watch it like when's your birthday march 30th you're an aries i'm an aries right what are you i'm a scorpio whoa yeah i feel like we're kind of unpredictable like our signs don't necessarily match up with our personalities i don't think i am i'm very well i are you into astrology kind of well we're both year of the bunny or rabbit yeah we are because we're both 99 yeah i like that's yeah do you like believe in like chinese astrology a little bit i like we'll we'll read into that a little bit more like my mom gets the like thick book every like they put out this big book and if you're from hong kong maybe you know what i'm so and he writes this thick ass book about the whole year and every year every year and about like what animal you are and what horoscope you are and like what it'll be for you that year oh wow and so she buys the book every year and so we have in our house like or in their apartment where they live in hong kong they have like all the books all the years yeah oh i'm fascinated it is fascinating peter writes the same book every year but here's like grinding he has not taken a year off i'm like are you yeah but like how does like take a hiatus girl like how does peter know i don't know like what are his qualifications i don't know that's that these are also the questions that i sort of have that i quietly keep to myself my thing with astrology is sometimes i feel like they're very broad statements that can apply to anyone and i'm like and then you're like yeah that's me but like you know what if it makes life make sense a little more that day then whatever like my friend broke up with her boyfriend got like her co-star was like i know it is breakup season everyone's breaking up it's so i'm scared for everybody right now yeah it's really sad it's sad but i like don't feel any type of way about it because i've been single forever so i'm just like whatever you're like you're doing your thing i'll be a good friend but i'm like but why is it cyclical i always feel like breakup season happens and then three years later breakup season happens again oh really like i always feel like it's that there'll be like two or three months where everyone breaks up and then it sort of domino effect i feel like i feel like someone sees one person do it and then they do it and then they do it and then it's like a trend really like that's like people get inspired by other people's breakups and they maybe have been wanting to break up and then do it because they see someone else break up whoa it's funny when it happens in the celebrity world because you're like oh my god are you guys like all talking like you know what i mean because you remember you know how it happens like within celebrity culture like it happens like you say every three years all the celebrity couples break up yeah i feel like it's the same really yeah but i don't know if they talk to each other but they definitely get inspired whoa yeah that is i'm literally having like a profound moment where i'm like whoa is this is this is a thing it must be that i was completely naive to what celebrity couple that if they broke up you would be so upset by i think it would be asap and rihanna oh yes i love them together i think i would also i would have to kill myself unfortunately i'd have to also go with the break with the relationship with the relationship i'm sending myself off the ship i love them together they're so like they're then they make the best public appearances i'd be upset about dualipa and calum turner you don't agree i feel like no i agree i i like them together they're always on vacation dude i want to be going on vacation yeah i guess when you like travel so much with work it's hard to see like the difference yeah it's hard to see travel as something to be excited about which is such like well we know renee is not excited about it but i think it's hard to see travel as something to be excited about travel i'm still trying to enjoy it i'm still trying to have that like childlike wonder about it where i'll get on a plane and be like oh my god this is crazy that we're all just flying in this tube i used to be so excited to go to the airport when i was a kid oh me too i'd be like oh my god i'm going to the airport i'm traveling and then traveling internationally it's like whoa right holy shit we're doing like passport is happening oh i think when you land in a country you've never been before it is like the coolest feeling like it's like this out-of-body experience that you have where you're like oh my god it's like you're like starstruck by a place i know and i feel like that is that sensation is slowly being it's like slowly fading away from me because i'm traveling so much and i feel like you must relate to that too yeah i think i felt that way the most though when i traveled to where was it i think i was like oh it was when i went to tokyo and i went to tokyo for the first time and i was like i landed in japan and it was this year and i just remember being like i cannot believe i am in japan yeah like i can't believe i wanted to go here my entire life and i'm finally here 26 years later and i'm here and then i've also felt that way when i was in london and i went for the first time when i was like 22 and they all they were all driving on the other side of the road and i just thought it was like it's like the little things like that i just thought were like the coolest things ever it's it's really trippy it's really trippy to go and like everything is swapped yeah in hong kong and thailand you it's the same side of the road though as here right no it's the other side it's the other side it's the like uk side of the road yeah so did you have to relearn how to drive well so that's that's the thing i i took i took my test in the uk when i was like 21 and i also learned how to drive manual because everything is stick in the uk or in in most of europe i feel like um so i think driving here was actually so much easier because everything's automatic and like the whole city is built for and around cars whereas in london driving is like hellish you take the metro here though i have a couple times for sure i'm like i'm trying i'm like actively i know you are i know you are i'm trying have you tried the new train the d yeah um i have not taken the d yet because it's it's a little like out of my way where is the d where i know i definitely know it's hitting lachma okay is that the big pull of the d i just wrote the d you just wrote the d and tell us about your experience i had so much fun apparently it's so clean it was the first time i'd ever oh clean ridden the d ridden the d yeah the d line is quite clean and they have really cool art installations on the d yeah they have like art well like in the train station oh got it got it got it citrusy of food or like spicy food i get like really hot like my body overheats heats and i get a little that's an allergy a little sweat like sometimes i'll eat an orange and start sweating and being like wait you're allergic you're allergic yeah to be honest i came here to find that out yeah well i'm glad that you've left with with now i am allergic to and you don't need to see a doctor yeah you just thank god i know i hate going to the doctors and i used to not hate it i hate it now i like dread it i'm like scared something's gonna show up i've like reached that age where i'm like health anxiety yeah i i recently if i've had it and i've never had health anxiety before which is crazy do you have do you do you google are you googling well okay here's why i can't google anymore so web and web md used to be the real issue for me where i would like go down like spirals but now that google gives you like an ai overview of shit like it will tell me i have like a million different diseases so i i can't i'll tell what i will do is call the doctor's office oh that's good i'll call the doctor's office before anything because i can't i can't go down a road it's crazy that health care is not free here um it is the craziest thing it's really horrible it's despicable health care the health care system here is so horrible like i remember that being like a constant theme throughout my life like if my mom had work like like that's how we would like because health care is so expensive yeah so if my mom had like a stable job like we would have stable health care but if not like you don't that like hearing hearing stories about the this like in the u.s is it's horrible like people are like like you people like don't want to call the ambulance or call like for help because they're scared like it the bill will be so extravagant because it will that's that's that's really wild especially like the the ambulance thing and like the the emergency that's the craziest part is i mean all of it's insane but yeah it's like it costs money to give birth like isn't that crazy wow i like i'm just like so thankful that i had the nhs in in the uk like that's so which is the the health care that and so health care is free for everyone in the uk yeah that's how it should be yeah and i think especially a lot of europe like the scandinavians have it locked in have you been to scandinavia have you been to like sweden norway no i i really want to i've been on a layover and i think sweden it's amazing i know i've heard it's just the best place in the world also everyone has to go to a layover and i think sweden it's amazing i know i've heard everyone's hot yeah the outfits are amazing the food is incredible the weather is like really nice everything works everything's clean free healthcare yeah i want to go you should go i want to go to sweden we're going to germany in um august for the for the conscious candy and yeah i'm really excited i've never been to germany we're going to dusseldorf okay well toa what are you therapist about today is this a question that you ask all of your guests renee's answer for the first time ever i think she was the very first there i think i asked her like for the first time what she was therapist about and her answer was um the trend where if your girlfriend brings you an orange do you remember this trend oh my god that was vaguely do you remember that that she went on a whole tangent about that so yeah i did yes but yes i ask everyone okay so i i have i have my answer ready for you and i was kind of therapist about it this morning tell me so it's a little poignant like it's kind of on the tip of my tongue i have found out that one of my pet peeves is when people interrupt me or others especially others you know i do that really bad no you don't yes you're such a good listener what this whole time we haven't you haven't not interrupted me once oh tell her you're mistaken i caught myself interrupting you a few times okay then well then well as long as you didn't notice i don't give a shit but i don't know if you're interested in me or if you're interested in me or if you're interested especially when it's like someone who's a little shy and they're not the loudest voice in the room and they're like telling it's when they're telling a story yeah do you know what i mean they're telling a story and it's like they have the floor and like someone just keeps interrupting them and or like finishing their sentences for them and i'm like let them speak why did why this morning were you did you discover was it annoyed you i was just i was thinking about all of the like i was like why why do they do that like what is what is the urge to like finish a sentence for another person i think it's a form of narcissism and i also think it's for me a form of excitement i well okay so that's the that's a i guess i should clarify it's not all it's not all interrupters it's a it's it's when when it feels like it comes from a place of my voice is more important than yours right rather than you can always tell yeah rather than you can always tell i'm so excited by what you're saying so i like want to add to the conversation and kind of like keep it moving i think that's different very valid thing to be a therapist about yeah i've been working on it every day really yeah she checks me every time she'll say stop you really have to stop interrupting your guests okay so then maybe maybe but that i think that's the distinction because i've never felt like you're a big interrupter at all so i think i think yours comes from a place of like i'm just like giddy and happy and i want to be involved yes like i'm never like interrupting this person to take their moment yes whereas i think for some people it's very much that right and especially when i see it happen in front of me i hate it are you a confrontational person like would you say like why'd you just interrupt them no i'm not a confrontational person so i just have to be resentful about it instead and like be quietly like furious furious what what else are you i'm trying to be more confrontational though really yeah i'm trying to call bitches out i can't it terrifies me i had a whole therapy thing about it today where i was like it's like is calling this person not even worth my time right like you know what i mean yeah literally wasting my breath i do also think like my version of calling people out by the way would never be like it would be like hey by the way the way you said that really hurt my feelings like it would not right i would not be clocking anyone's tea it would literally just be like but i'm really sorry to like inconvenience you by saying that and i hope that that doesn't ruin your day right it's funny because you're dating one of the more confrontational people i've ever met in my entire life yeah yeah but that's why she would be proud to hold that title that's why we yeah like it's perfect like if i have a problem i and i need someone like yeah if i'm if i if it's a night out and i have a problem with someone like i know i can run to renee and be like i need you to help me here yeah and she would literally be like i'm so glad you're here like you asked like with pleasure with pleasure to the point where i will not be having a problem with someone but she will think that they have looked at me a certain way and will be having a problem with them for me and i'm like there is something happening that i'm when the gum when she starts chewing the gum when the gum starts when the gum starts going that's it's the like yeah the and sometimes the finger comes out that's when you know oh the finger the finger what something that like my friends and i make fun of her for is when she is having a conversation with the person that she's angry about in her head but is talking to you i do that too and people think i'm angry at them and i'm like no i'm really angry at the situation like she's very much like you motherfucker yeah you fucking like you motherfucker you fucking cunt and you're like and you're like but i think that's why i love her so much because i know she's not talking what the hell did i do like i know she's not talking at me when it's so good it's so good like she's in the moment yeah with you and you get to be like she's just a theater kid at heart it's the theater kid in her that's what it is and i'm not a theater kid at all i did not grow up doing theater i don't have any friends who have done theater like from my home you know what is so interesting that i actually recently discovered about you is that you basically came into this career by posting literally one tiktok video it was like the first tiktok video you ever posted so we're in were you wait that luck was crazy by the way what that it was one tiktok that well it's you're talented so of course it was gonna happen thanks well it's true did you become accustomed to this sort of like instant gratification that tiktok brought that then putting out like a real body like a full body of work doesn't quite give you or were you able to balance the two oh man that's such a good question i mean i feel like i i feel like i separate them very very much in my head like doing tiktoks and posting on social media does not because this feels like long for like i spent a year doing just writing this album and then like i started in february of 2025 and it's like what may 2026 so it's it feels so long term like it feels like a commitment like it's a baby whereas a tiktok i'll spend five minutes making right yeah like the longest amount of time is maybe like an hour did you ever struggle with the slower pace of like an album cycle as opposed to like just like because you can put anything out on tiktok and have like immediate reactions yeah sure oh i see what you mean i see what you mean um i kind of hate the immediate immediacy of tiktok yeah like it doesn't allow for any like space or like slow processing like with - With an album, I feel like you watch a TikTok and then you never see it again. - Yeah, yeah. You know, like, it never feeds you the same information again. Whereas for music, it's so, like, or with any art, really, like, movies, film, television, anything, it's so, like, consistent. Like, you can watch the movie three or four times. You can listen to the album for the rest of your life. Whereas, like, you don't go back and watch the same TikTok over and over again. There's only a few TikToks that I will go back to. The George Washington one being one of them. Oh, well, thank you so much. But I think, yeah, but I know what you mean. It's, like, it has to really be a special TikTok to go back to it twice. Yeah, so, I don't know. I see them so separately. But, like, yeah, I don't even, the immediacy of the gratification that comes from TikToks, it doesn't feel, like, very much to me. Like, it doesn't feel super, like, meaningful. Whereas, like, the reception that I get from an album feels so meaningful. Right. Like, that feels. So, I'm so sensitive and so, like, vulnerable to it. Whereas, TikToks, I'm like. Fuck it. If you hate it, then you hate it. Yeah. Do you, what are you listening to right now? And also, I don't know why this question popped into my head. But when you were talking about, like, going back to an album, I was like, I wonder what your favorite album of all time is that you always go back to. The Beatles album, Abbey Road. But the B-side of the vinyl. Those four little lesbians are cooking back then. Are you excited for the Beatles biopic? Oh. I don't know. Mixed feelings. It's nerve, it's nerve-wracking. Biopics are always nerve-wracking. Their little haircuts, I saw, like. Their little haircuts. But, you know, you know a biopic that I watched and I was like. Or a biopic that I really want to have been made yesterday is the Madonna biopic. Oh, yeah. I need it. And I think Julia Gardner is playing Madonna. Oh. And I'm, like, so sad for it. I, like. Oh, that's going to be sad. I feel like Madonna's come up with so interesting. Yeah. So, this is an artist that I, like, I'm not as familiar with as maybe. Oh, really? Yeah. I'm not. And I want to be. So, that's why I'm, like, really interested in, like. I used to watch, like. She's so sick, Julia Gardner. So sick. And Madonna, of course. Obviously. But I don't have to. Yeah. I don't have to say that. I used to watch on, like, MTV or VH1. They would have, like, an hour-long, like. Like, Hollywood story time of, like, how, like, an artist came to be. And I remember watching one on Mariah Carey. She should have a biopic. Her life is fascinating. Her. The way that she sings is. Wow. Her voice is amazing. I just watched a TikTok of, like, her singing. And, like, it was maybe, like, five minutes long. Yeah. She has the voice of an angel. Yeah. I used to be such a. I mean, I am. I am. I had. I used to be in. I used to be in, like, the biggest Mariah face when I was in high school. She's so. She has bangers. She's nasty with it. She's so. Her voice is so crazy. And her pen game is underrated. She writes all her own tracks. Yeah. Tracks. Okay. Yeah. I'm, like. She writes all her own music. You just kind of became straight. Yeah, I did. I don't know why. Are you still hot? I'm still hot. I'm a little hot, but I'm kind of. Less hot than you were? I'm enjoying it. Okay. Okay. Again, it's reminding me of my, like, hot room Pilates situation that I had this morning. I don't go to hot Pilates enough, and I should, because every time I do go, I'm, like, I feel like I've touched God. It's amazing. Yeah. And I do have to say, like, this morning was especially amazing because my friend took me to her, like, studio, and I had never been there before. And the instructor, amazing, just maybe, like, barely five foot, like, skin tight leggings, just this little guy. And he, it was, like, literally his stage. And he was. He was, like, he was, like, step, like, downward dog, step right through, warrior one, into warrior two. And everything was. You're looking to be a really good Pilates voice. Everything was rhyming. And I was, like, your flow is amazing. And what do they say? They say, they say, and what, what do they say? Like, into Savasana. Like, what are they, what is the one thing that they'll always say? Savasana at the end? No, but they'll be, like. Into the, the, like, upward dog? Yeah, the chaturanga. I don't even know. I haven't done Pilates in, in, in a long time. And I need to. But it was, like, this yoga flow where he was, he was just, like, spitting so much game. And I was, like, wow. This is really just your world and we're living it. And also, kind of, at the same time, I'm, like, what in the L.A. fuck is happening to me right now? I used to want to be a SoulCycle instructor when I was a kid. It's a, that's a cult. Yeah, that's a, that's a cult. That's a cult. I'm, like, sign me up for the cult. Yeah. I mean, were you ever a SoulCycle person? I don't think I've ever been to a SoulCycle class. And I, like, hope to keep that the same until my, my last breath. They, they got me for a while. My mom was, like, what are you going to? And I was, like, I don't know, but I have to go. They used to have SoulCycle, like, warehouse merch sales where, like, they would have an entire warehouse of SoulCycle merch and it would be on sale. And I would go with all my friends and I wore this SoulCycle zip-up hoodie to the ground when I was in high school. I just was obsessed and I wanted to, and I. Oh, you were a kiddo. No, I was, like, I, I was, I was, like, 13 when I started doing SoulCycle. Oh, shit. Yeah, I know, weird, right? I feel like there should be, you should be, like, over 17, 18. Yeah, well, I had to, I had to make sure I was tall enough to ride the bike. You and your, like, little heels. Yep. Yeah, I literally went up at the time. Um, wow. Yeah. Incredible. Yeah. I need to know more about this side of you. My fitness class? Yeah, your fitness class. Your fitness class and your, like, SoulCycle episode? I, there, I'll put the photo here and I'll show you after, but, like, I used to celebrate my birthdays at SoulCycle. Oh. Like, they would bring me cupcakes. Oh, this is major. I was, and all SoulCycle smell the same. Okay. And I could, like, I, like, like, SoulCycle. Can you explain the smell or is it just, like, indescribable? It's, like, you walk in, you click your feet into the bike and they, like. Do you have shoes, like, special shoes? Yeah, and, like, a real diehard SoulCycle person will have their own shoes. Okay. And they'll, like, walk. They'll, like, walk into the studio with their own shoes and you'll be, like. And they're, like, it's, like, over their shoulder. There was, like, celebrity SoulCycle instructors, like, they, their, the schedule comes out at the same time every week. All the bikes would get, like, if you were really special, you could book early. Like, it was crazy, the craziest thing ever. Damn. I don't know if they still make money. Really? You think they've gone out of business? It's all about Solicor now. It's all about Solicor. Yeah, that's all I hear about. I don't hear about SoulCycle as much as I used to. SoulCycle was, like, the thing in high school. Solicor smelled the same, by the way, too. What is Solicor? It's, like, it's, like, cracked out Pilates. But it's not Pilates, because I feel like it's not even trying to do that. It's, like, Pilates, but the best way I can describe it is, like, holding a plank for, like, 45 minutes. Oh, so you, do you go to Solicor all the time, don't you? No, last night. You did? Last night. Did you enjoy it? Yeah. I love Solicor. But would you agree with me that it's kind of cracked out Pilates? Yeah, they say it's strength training. Yes. Yeah, they don't, they don't. They don't claim Pilates. But you can't, yeah, it's not Pilates. Like, you don't do any of the classical moves. But, yeah, it's holding a plank or some, like, insanely hard hamstring position for, like, 30 minutes. The hamstrings are going to get me every time. Every time. Every time. And when it's shoulder day, and you're just literally on your shoulders the whole hour. Yeah. It's brutal. What else are you and Renee watching right now? We just finished season two of Beef, which is so. You should watch both. Are they that good? People ride for that show. It's really good. I really enjoyed it. Like, so good. What did we watch? We watched Project Hail Mary, watched the drama. Did you like Project Hail Mary? Yeah. Yeah. I loved Project Hail Mary. Did you cry? That's another hot man. Like, very. Oh, uh, Gosling. Yeah, imagine if I was like, no, the little Rocky. Right, I was like, who was in that movie again? Like, the little monster. Ryan Gosling. Yeah, he is. He's very charismatic in that. I was very trying to. I was very charmed by him. And I loved his little, like, Paddington coat. Like, he had that, like, yellow trench situation that was happening. Space scares me. But I love movies about space. I love space. I used to want to be an astronaut. Really? Yeah, when I was a kid. Did you. Have you ever. Do you watch a bunch of space movies? Not even. Let me put you on. Have you ever seen Gravity with Sandra Bullock? Yes. Yeah. Yeah. Okay, so I didn't put you on. Wait, I have seen that, yeah. Okay. And you've obviously seen Interstellar. Yes, I've seen that one, too. I'm like, is there other space films? I've seen a lot of them, actually. What about the Mars one? Apollo 13. You ever seen that one? I've never seen Apollo 13. That's a good one. What's that about? That's about the actual Apollo mission where they go into space and. I mean. So you believe the moon landing happened? Are we not believing the moon landing happened? Some people don't. Like, really? And people ride by it. I believe it happened. You're like, I'm coming out. Just for clarity. No, someone once called me a flat earther and I was like, I'm not a flat earther. I am. Are you really? No. Okay. Imagine that. That would be fun. That would be kind of fun. Maybe I should just start throwing that around. I mean, yeah, because it's not that controversial. I mean, it is controversial, but it's not like. I mean, I get. It's just kind of fucking stupid. Yeah, it's really stupid. But, so, okay. It could be fun, though. I might just make that my new thing. That you're a flat earther? Yeah. You know who would do that? That would be role model, Tucker. Tucker would pull some shit like that. But it would be private. No, he would tell everyone that he's a flat earther. Yeah, that's the difference between me and Tucker is he would, like, put it on his story. Yeah. And I would, like. seat it in all of my like interpersonal relationships that would be the way like isn't it so funny that the earth is flat anyway yeah why do you want to be an astronaut i just i don't know i was like this is so it's so cool it's so unexplored like there's just so much of it i don't know like i love i love to ponder yeah i was definitely like a kid that like lived i lived in my own like fantasy in my own imagination do you journal yeah do you have journals from when you were a kid yeah i gotta go read them they're all in hong kong that's awesome i wish i had that shit i don't that's how i came out what you came journaling like to my to my little journal i remember it was like i had like a black and white like it had like black and white waves on the front like it was such an ugly journal um and it like made a noise every time you opened it it was like squeak it was like a squeaky little like spiral bound journal but that's how i found out i was gay i was like writing and i was like oh my fault sometimes sometimes writing like allows you to access thoughts that you didn't know you had yeah i think that's what happened in that moment fascinating i was like 11 maybe do you have you ever reread that journal entry no i need to i don't know where it is there is there are like a couple journals that are missing and because my family moved around so much like i don't know where she might be right but it might just like appear i really hope you find that i know that'd be so cool but you just remember the the moment and the feeling yeah i remember i was like in my auntie's house like also came from a place of boredom oh because i was like visiting i was like you know when you're like with family and there's just like a bunch of free time in the day and so i was like i went back to like my room where we were staying and i was like i think i'm gay yeah and now gay and now straight yeah husband husband actually yeah husband perfect yeah do you want to do the yeah i am incredibly gullible i literally will believe anything anyone says to me i can't read signals or body language or sarcasm for that matter what should i do i can't go on my whole life being lied to and not knowing about it and not being in on the joke dash ava hi ava oh my god ava i'm so sorry first of all for being so gullible i just feel like that's you can't fix that yeah my advice is stop yeah sorry i think i think you just need to embrace the gullibleness i think it's really endearing i think it's endearing too i think it's sweet i think if you reframe it to being something you embrace as opposed to something you're ashamed of yeah you'll be like yeah i'm gullible and all my friends can play pranks on me and it's so funny and fun and we have so much fun and we laugh so hard because when you know as long as the pranks aren't with malintent yeah i love pulling pranks on my friends it's my it's like literally my favorite thing to do in the entire world yeah well we call it pulling a p pulling a prank pulling a p your pop p for p p are you and renee big pranksters i i like to partake in the prank she's not really in on it she but she likes to observe i prank cast my friend cassidy all the time the phone calls the facetime facetime i always get her because she doesn't know anything about um american history or anything so i'll just pull someone randomly out of like the textbooks and she'll just be like what are you talking about i told her she saw mary todd lincoln at the club the other night and i asked her why she didn't tell me and she said who the fuck is that mary todd lincoln that's so good i'm sorry she was fucked up yeah that's she was messy that's not a real person i go indeed it is actually i feel like i'm maturing out of my relationship he's so sweet and loyal and treats me the best but like that boy isn't going places anytime soon and i'm ambitious i don't want to make too many big life choices at once so should i just try to grow and hope he follows suit damn girl i think you're out i think you're out i feel like you know it too if you're writing into therapist if you're writing into therapist for us to ask you i think you i think you know what your answer is there have you ever seen the movie someone great no never oh it's like that's what that movie's about it's like they're growing they've completely grown out of this relationship they both have different ambitions and like they have to it's sad yeah usually there's so much good music about that though yeah there's so much good music about like grow like like like casey musgraves deeper well like you know or a song like i'm trying to think of another song that i would listen to deeper well do that that's a song about like growing and finding yeah do you think i'm wrong no okay cool i had a really good song what's always what's happiness happiness by taylor swift oh my god i have not i don't know i don't know that one oh my god toa i'm not knowing it'll change you it's just basically like there was happiness because of you there will be happiness after you and both things can be true i think those are the actual tears fall but like it's true it's like finding solace in the i always said like this year is about the year of two things existing at once yeah i feel like we view things or have viewed things as such like this way or this way and like two things can be true at once two truths no lie yeah exactly and like you can be have had so many joyous memories with this person and also continue to have joyous memories after and both things can be true there will be happiness because of you dash taylor swift end quote end quote so listen to happiness by taylor swift what a great prescription louise it just literally came to me wow wow i'm desperately in love with my best friend he told me he loved me and we should be together months ago oh my god amazing and i ended things with the guy i was seeing for him okay and he completely did that and i'm like oh my god i'm not he did a 180 and faded me and we never spoke about it again that's crazy i'm still in love with him but he wants nothing to do with me in a romantic way it's been months and it's driving me crazy what do i do i would drop him as a friend i would drop him as anyone in your life yeah because he wanted you to he wanted the power of your feel like feelings and then the second he got it was like never mind yeah and like that's a shit friend and that's a shit partner as well because like you you don't want to start a life with this person if they're gonna drop you off and you're gonna like that right or change up on you like that yeah because how do you say you're in like a complete 180 that's narcissism do you watch reality television not a whole lot you guys should watch rhode island it's brand new it's uh amazing it's like really and truly like they've all known each other since high school so they all shit talk each other like from their past it's actually like it's really beautiful i like saw some moving television this morning you were watching it this morning yeah well i watched it with my chipotle hangover at 5 a.m oh fuck and then i fell asleep oh you were really hungover huh you were up i was literally up at everyone was like why are you up i was like chipotle and not in the way that you would think i wasn't like shitting my pants i was just like my head hurts i'm sick from this chipotle it was a bowl or it was a bowl and i also got a kid's meal quesadilla no like tacos on the side because you can't get an extra side of white rice and that's the only way i know how to get an extra side of white rice is kids meal yeah that's so that's so genius well chipotle needs to figure the out how they market themselves on uber eats because it's actually very frustrating you can't get a side of salad dressing you can't get a side of white rice you can't get extra white right the whole thing makes no sense what whoever is running their marketing at uber eats is so someone in the wrong someone call them right someone i don't know how it's not been woken up sooner wake it up let's make a fucking phone call ordering chipotle is difficult and it makes me not want to do it that's what you're a therapist about that is what i'm nervous about why can't i get a side of salad dressing why do i need to get a salad asking the big questions today why do i why do i need to get a salad in order to get a salad dressing why can i get an extra side of white rice why can't i get an extra side of vegetables yes now you have a kid i'll pay i'll pay i'll pay just put the fucking option on now you have a fucking kid can you like write in notes and be like extra rice oh that's the other thing no notes you can't write like a little comment yeah fucking hell so it's just like this is the way it is and i don't like the way it is me and my friends go to the movies a lot and we have this one friend who never shuts the fuck up next sentence that i can't understand they're not the quietest chatter in the bunch either how do we put them down gently it feels like telling a child scent is not real to tell your friend to shut the fuck up wait scent isn't it like they're scared it's like i think they're equating it to being telling someone they smell yeah the whole part is kind of throwing me off but yeah but i feel like i don't know now that i'm trying to get better at confrontation oh yeah how would you do it i would tell them i would try just be like wait the movie's playing just shh when someone is like i think it's i think it's really fun when someone's yapping during a movie like quietly but it it's not it cannot be throughout yeah like i think that's i think we should cap it at like four comments per movie a thousand percent anything above that it's like and if it's really your best friend like you can tell them to shut the fuck up i get told to shut the fuck up on the daily that that's also another thing it's like if this is like your true friend you can be like come on dude yeah shh yeah there's so much power in shh shh i've been told to shh so many times and i listen every time does it ever offend you do you get like are you sometimes like when i'm really on a roll i'm louise will be like shh i'll be like oh the fuck have i done that you've done that a few times you've been like shh have i yes you've been like pipe down i don't think i said shh maybe on a call you'll be you'll be like shh oh i have done that i have done that before i'm gaslighting me crazy well yeah like on a call like you're like i feel like shh is definitely warranted unless it's funny unless what the person's saying is funny yeah then all the rules fucking got the window yeah that's why i'm like i try thank you for saying that i've been i've been long distance with my boyfriend for a few months now and i'm starting to actually really enjoy it almost to the point where this when where when this period is over we're in college and he's studying abroad for a semester i'm gonna almost prefer the space and alone time but i love him and being in a relationship help i want to fix this before he gets back i don't know how to help you because i've never been in a relationship but it's sounding like to me it's like the very early stages of like it's time to break up i think yeah i think it maybe it's okay to be alone right you can the two truths saying it's like you can love this person very dearly and also want to just be by yourself and also they're saying you can love this person very dearly and also want to just be by yourself