Session 119: Kacey Musgraves

(upbeat music) - Hey. - Hi, do I want to touch my crystal? - Yeah. - It gets rid of, um, it encourages trust and builds positivity and exert healthy, emotional release. - Okay. - I don't know if I want that. - Wait, you totally need that. Well, we have Casey Mosque-Raves on the show today. - Yay, that's our fave. - What did you just buy this? - Yesterday. I was crying and I walked into a crystal shop. - You're not well. - No. - I'm really not. - Are you okay? - No, I'm really not. - Why? - I don't know, I've just been twisted up here. (laughing) - Why? - It's not seamless, like, of many things. - You're just depressed. - Mainterely. - Well, maybe. It's time to start meds again. - Yeah, I've been screaming it from the rooftop for months. - No, I took meds for, like, five years and then I stopped. - Well, 'cause, well, beauty was giving you a panic attack. - It always made me so anxious. - But that's, I'm pretty sure that's, like, a common thing people have. - Really? - Yeah, it's my, it's like, I, it's just trying to give it to me and I'm like, I-- - Well, it's like a stimulant. - So, why would you need that? - Right, so it just, like, wasn't helping my anxiety at all. So, that-- - I'm pretty sure it's for depression. - Yeah, I mean, you can treat it for both. And I have both. - So. - So. - But. - So I stopped. I mean, no one here's about this. And then I'm gonna have to start again soon, 'cause I'm just like, ooh. You're not well. - You're bumpy. - Yeah. But I'm on Lou Vox. - What's that? - It's for OCD, I think you have that, by the way. - You think I have OCD? - You think about the same thing consistently and you can't drop it. - But I don't have, like, rituals like you. - Well, it can manifest in different ways. - Right. I probably have everything, honestly. - Probably. - What's your favorite KC song? - Well, I have to think about it. - You love butterflies. - Love butterflies. Love space cowboy. - Space cowboy. - You showed me that one. - I think-- - I showed you space cowboy. - You showed me space cowboy. - I think space cowboy. - Or you rebroaded it to my life. - I think that's my right now. That's my favorite. - But like Rainbow. - Oh, you love Rainbow. - I think Rainbow was the best. - I talked to her. - And justified. I like that song. - Oh, you love justified. - Do you remember when we listened to a deeper well in the backyard? - In the backyard. - What is that the one we love on? - Uh-uh, come to me. - And drop, and drop your bags. - What's like, you'll be fine. - And I'll help you unpack. Nothing to be scared of. - But what's the other one? The-- - Your-- - The architect. - Love the architect. - Because Kate really is so-- - She just says things and you're like, damn, yeah. - That's what I told her. I said, yes, I wrote-- - Really? - Like, she just says it's so simple. - And you're like, wow. - 'Cause she, I said, I think she was put on this earth. To, like, just write about the world. - Right, and like, the simple things that, like, you're like, oh, damn. - She, like, I've never thought about that. - She makes the simple things so extraordinary. - Deeper well is like the best song I've ever heard in my life. - Yeah, it's-- - Like, when that came out and you were, like, put it on right now in the car, I was like-- - I think Casey writes, like, as if it's a Bible for how to live life. - A thousand percent. Mary Goround is the greatest song of all time. - The greatest wordplay of all time. - Like, of all time. Trish showed me that song. - Trish loves Casey. - Chris loves Casey. - Years and years ago. Yeah, it's just so good. - We have to see your own tour. - Have to. - Okay, so I'm obsessed with happier grocer. - Really? - Yeah. - What do you get there? - The gluten-free turkey wrap. - Oh. - How that every single day? - I still, by the way, like, I know that I grew up here and like, I've lived here now for like eight months. I have no idea where I am ever. Have you had the smoothies from Mappier? - No. Are they good? - Yeah, Kennedy really likes them. I've only had one once. - Which? - You know what you need to try? - What? - Tom's juice. - Really? - It's that fucking good. - What do they have? - And you like juice, by the way. You always want juice. - What do they have? (laughing) What do they have? - Am I wrong? Like, don't you always want like some type of refreshing drink? - No, what do they have? - Juice! (laughing) - But like, do they have snacks? - No, just juice. - Nothing else, no food. - Just juice. - What do you got? - The stores, the size of the staple. - Do they have smoothies? - Just juice. - Okay, that isn't good. - It's amazing. - Okay, well, I'll get it after, I'll get it in a little. - They have kiwi juice. - Ew. - They have watermelon juice. I had this morning. - Okay. - They have, well he calls it coconut juice, but it's coconut water. They have orange, grapefruit. They have mango juice, which is in St. St. St. St. everywhere. - I saw. (laughing) - They have passion fruit juice, but it's literally $10 for this big of juice. - So the passion fruit is less juice than other juices? - Mm-hmm, it's like small for some reason. - Okay, continue. - Kiwi, did I say that yet? - You, those, the first one you said, which did not tickle my pickle. - Well, it's amazing. So, like, I don't know why I'm calling it. - For the four, they have four juices. - They have a million different juices. Like, just fucking go with me one time. - Okay, do you like my hair cut? - Yeah, I do, actually, I was noticing it. - Okay. - I just fully lied, I didn't notice. I don't know what you mean. - You didn't notice my hair was chopped? - No, I don't notice boys' cuts. - Yeah, that's, that's valid. - Do you like my hair? - Yeah, it looks great. - It's so long. - The reason I were getting awkward old facial tomorrow. - I want that. I got micro-needling like a month ago, and I thought it made my skin look amazing. - At the Brightwood clinic. I didn't get mine at the Brightwood clinic. I got mine with Ali. - And she gives you your whole thing. - My whole thing. - Well, you're still most crazy. - I get a facial with her once a month. - Uh-huh. - And then we just recently did micro-needling and PRP under my eyes. - What is the, can, bright, what do PRP under my eyes? - But you're gonna be a little bruised for like a few days. - No, I can't help that. - Yeah, no. - You like honestly took me out of commission for like, remember when I got to go tell my eyes, we're like, low-key, black and blue? - No, I don't remember that at all. - Well, there was like, black and blue like on this one eye. I know it had been like a week. - I was about to go tell it all the time. - Oh my god, it was so fun. - I've never had all of them. - But I haven't been able to like, really go out since because I was like, so down bad for, I don't think you understand. Like, you didn't hear one word from out of my mouth on Sunday, did you? - Oh my god, no, I didn't. - I literally couldn't speak. - Do you remember I got a Benadre Livey? - What did I say? - No, you guys, this was actually the most insane thing. All of you, I've never experienced anything like this. So Beth was over and we got IVs and Jake was like, I want the Benadreau, but I feel like you get Benadreau on your IVs every time. - I do. - Something about this was different. She puts the Benadreau push in. All of a sudden, he starts speaking nonsense. Like actual nonsense, words that didn't exist. He started mumbling and dumbling whatever. Goes, you need to help me upstairs. He dives into bed. I don't hear from him for the next 24 hours. You woke up at like 5 p.m. the next day. - No, I didn't. - Or you went to bed, it was like 6 p.m. and you didn't wake up until like 11 p.m. - I started seeing people. - It was super scary. - I'm coming out with my own skew of "Cochis Camias" and I have them here. - I'm so excited. - I mean, holy fuck. - Yeah, they're good, right? - This is the best by far. - By far. - I was back to the course by far. - Mm-hmm. - And this one? - Mm. - It's amazing. It's amazing. And it still has like that marshmallow-y thing that the wild and free ones have. - It's good. - But it's like the taste of the rainbow kind of one. - And sour. - Mm-hmm. - Oh, hell. - That was really good. Well, me and Casp had drinks. - Uh-huh. - And we had four martinis each. - Oh, that's her talk. You sent me of the martini killed me. - Oh my god, I was disgusting. I've got a little green dish. - It said you're having the worst day of your life and this is the martini. You guys had a plastic cup. - And it's like dirtwater green. - And it's the Beyonce sound. It's like, so now what are you gonna say to me that you would have on my funeral? - Anyways, we had four martinis each. So obviously I'm drunk, like blackout. - Yeah. - Then cast invited a few people to join us. And we were so fucked up, honestly, like really, really drunk. - Like what I've had fun. - Yeah, you would have had fun. Then Peyton chose out alone. Honestly, no idea where she came from. She just spawned. - Yeah. - Ryan also spawns out of nowhere in a tuxedo with our vlog camera and he vlogged his entire-- - Did you watch it yet? - No, I haven't watched any of the footage yet, but he apparently said he sat down at the table and took the camera out of his pocket and was just like, hey everyone, put the camera down and everyone's heads snapped and was like, are you vlogging? - 'Cause like, why would Ryan vlog? - When we went to the Nines to dance a bit. - Was it dancey? - Yeah, it was really crowded. - Don't they play piano there? - No, it turns into like fun vibes. Like it's like, no, Jazz bar. It's like a DJ in tables. - Oh, okay. - Then we left, we on the limo. (laughing) - We went to Times Square and like it looked at my phone and I had like at least seven drinks at this time. - Why? What do you do in Times Square? - I don't even know. - I don't know how they do it. - I get over, I've already had a full day yesterday. They're all like, they still have low lives over them. Their mascara's running down their face. I'm like, oh my god, I've literally entered the kids' mouth. - What else should we talk about? You're depressed. - Did you just glitch? - No, yes. You're depressed, you're going on meds. We love Casey. - Love Casey. When is she going on tour? - Did she announce that yet? - I think she did. - I'm so sad that we missed her weekend too. - Me too. - I would like to go to weekend too next year. - What's weekend too better than what's-- - It always is and it's like-- - Weekend too is always just a little more chill. - Yeah. And like I could do some chill next time. - Now I had so much-- - But like I will say, like the only issue about Coachella for me is like, I can barely do one day of Coachella, let alone two. Like I will never make it to day three. - Ever. - Okay, well, love you. I'm so excited for this episode. I'm deaf gonna listen to this one. - Oh yeah, real quickly, Julie and Peyton tried to give me shit for not watching their vlog the other day. - Wait, I didn't try to give you shit. I just had watched it 'cause like you're gonna think it's really funny. - You don't watch my show. - I know, I actually thought about that as I said it. I was like, wait, he doesn't wanna watch 'cause like I don't-- - Do you have extensions in right now? - Yeah, that's what I was trying to tell you. It's so long. - They look really amazing. - Right. Your dog died. - Oh. - He did. - Are you okay? - Well, that's definitely adding to my depression. - I think so too. - It definitely is. - Well, maybe he died and his dying wish is for you to get on meds. - Maybe, maybe. - Can I say though, every time I'm worried about a situation, you handle it so much better than I think you were. - No, I handle the situations that like don't deserve to be dramatic very poorly and I handle like very dramatic situations well. - Julia, me too. - It's just us. - It's just us, we're the same. - It's just us, we are. - Okay, why I love you. - I love you. - I love you. (upbeat music) - You were saying though right before that you were like, I am so scared because you were like over analyzing it that like it's boring. You were scared of it being boring. - Yeah. - There's actually like this quote that I wanted to redo that I think just like describes it, it was a review of Golden Hour, but it describes, I think how you write and your storytelling just entirely and it says, "Casey Musgrave sings simply about the world as if she's the first person to notice and you're the first one she's telling." - Oh, I like that. - Yeah. - And I think that is to me the beauty of your music because you describe these feelings with such simplicity that are so hard to figure out. - Yeah, yeah, it's just I think like I find a lot of all like in the human experience and for me like I do feel like all the inspiration that I find is usually within the most mundane. Like it's like in the everyday like for me it's not like this grandiose far reaching poetic like sense of something. It's like it always hits me in the most like banal kind of like mediocre like life moments and I feel like that's where like so much of the beauty lies, you know? Of being a human. - What song do you remember that hate you? Like do you remember a moment that was so mundane that hit you and you're like, "Oh, this song came out of that." - I mean, so many of them like I feel like I write my best when I've had a lot of time to just like live life and you know what I mean? And I'm not really like on any kind of like time constraint. I can just kind of like live life and let the ideas like build back up but you know like, oh what a world like that was one of them. - Yeah. - He breathes deeply. - I have to, where were you when that I tears struck? - I mean, I think I was probably somewhere in Nashville but I just remember like I was like falling in love. I was in this place of extreme wonder and like you know rose colored glasses and I was also I think when you fall in love you like you see the world in this kind of refreshed new beautiful light again, you know? You're like, "Oh my God, there's like you forget." Like there's shooting stars out there. There's jellyfish that glow. Like there's like bioluminescence. Like we live in a trippy world and we just get so here, you know? We kind of forget the magic exists. - Oh, what a world. And she. - It's a crazy world too though, y'all. - Yeah, really, it really is. I think you're like you make real fucking music. And I don't want this to just be me complex. - No, I think that should be. I have three beverages now over here, which I do love that we both were on the creation. - I know. And you know what, it came to me. I was like right literally right before you came, I was like, "Oh, I'm just gonna order one." And then you walked in with one and I was like, and that's the mundane. - And that's the mundane. - But you're song that really, I would say, like describes that for me as happy and sad. - Yeah, I feel that all the time. - 'Cause I never knew how to express that feeling. Everyone, I would be like, everyone would always be like, you look around you, life is so good. I'm like, I can't, 'cause I'm so scared of it becoming bad again. And having it hurt that much harder. - Or knowing that happiness is fleeting. The good doesn't last forever. Like even the most beautiful thing dies or, God, it's so morbid, Sony, but it is true. And it's hard to not get caught up in that when you're experiencing such a high, 'cause you're like, "Oh, is there a low?" That's gonna be next. - Yeah. - Yeah. - Yeah. - Yeah, it's real. And sometimes that happiness, it's like almost so beautiful that you're like, like it brings you to tears 'cause you're like, "Do I deserve this?" You know what I mean? - That's how I feel all the time. - Yeah. - How have you learned to understand that you do deserve it? - Oh, I mean therapy, I think getting older, like you realize you're like, I do deserve this thing that I really am working hard towards. Or I do deserve to be in a really reciprocal, beautiful relationship, you know? Like, and I can, like, I can like stand in that and say, like, I deserve that. I do. I feel like, you know, I mean, everyone does though, you know? - I feel like your 20s, at least for me right now, are a lot about like reconciling. I don't know if you felt the same way. - Like reconciling with like-- - Like who you were, how you grew up. - Yeah, yeah, yeah. Oh yeah, totally. It's that exploration period of like, what you're examining kind of like the building blocks of who, like, or yeah, who you are and why are you like that, you know? And I mean, or maybe like how your parents are or like how your childhood was. And it's your chance to like examine that. And I think like make changes or like, you know, decide, is that actually, do I align with this? - Right, yeah. - Yeah. - I wanted to talk to you about follow your arrow, 'cause that was actually my first introduction to you when I was in seventh grade. - Oh, oh wow, damn. (laughing) Okay, where's my cane? I definitely need the eye cream with this one. - No, I heard it and I never heard, I just had never heard a country singer sing about gay people before, like when you put, was there any hesitation to put that out or were you just like, fuck it? - I mean, mostly just like, fuck it. It's interesting, 'cause I wrote that song. That was like, I think the last addition to that record. And I remember bringing it into the label and I was like, so here's the album and I'm adding the song and yeah, I mean, they were just definitely like, yeah, no. This is gonna, you're gonna be roasted for this. Like it's gonna go down in flames and here's all these reasons as to why, like you shouldn't put this out and I just, it honestly made me wanna do it even more. Like don't tell me that I should, you know what I mean? Like that's reverse psychology. But yeah, I was just like, okay, well then, if it goes down in flames and it's for something that I really, really believed in. And you know, like when you really look at the bones of country music, like it's a genre built on storytelling, you know, it's real stories and you know, at least that's my favorite kind of country music. So I just feel like it's a natural fit that it would include like just parts of real life. Like the historic country music talks about stuff that's like, it's typically sometimes left of center. It like talks about heartbreak and just things that are, you know what I mean? Like can be a bit painful or very real, you know what I mean? So I'm kind of like, this is country to me to like talk about. - Gay shit. - Gay is hell shit. (laughing) Yeah, pretty much. - But that was, and I think that that's what you've done for a lot of people. You've really helped translate. I feel like for a long time people thought country was this very almost sort of specifically, very straight, then, and you were kind of like, no. - Yeah, country can hit somebody like in their heart. And you don't have to be like living on a farm and like, you know, to appreciate it or whatever. And I feel like one of the best compliments that I've ever received like in my entire career is that like, you know, someone said, basically what you said of saying, like, I always felt like country music was this party that I could, you know, I grew up in a small town and I always identified with country, but I just felt like it was a party that I was never invited to. And hearing your music made me feel like I was finally invited to the party. And I was like, okay, that's, that means so much more than any like, you know, radio, chart number or like, you know. But yeah, the song ended up getting banned by country radio. - Did it really? - And yeah, I'm like, it's just funny. And like, I saw something about this the other day about, you know, there was an article about like, liberal and more of the conservative people in country music or whatever. And I think people tend to forget that the idols that we have from country music, like we're thinking, like Wayland Jennings, Willie Nelson, Laura D'Alene, like they were outlaws, like they, they were liberal. Like Laura D'Alene was out here thinking about birth control when it was like a very controversial taboo subject, you know what I mean? I think we just forget that there is a large part of country music that we love that is very outlaw. And that means speaking up for the marginalized, like, subjects and things, you know? - Yeah, 1,000% and I think you've done that so beautifully. - Thank you. I feel like I've heard you talk about this before, but like how do you deal with like, writers, block and stuff? Because I feel like you've, I've heard you speak about this before. - I just like, I really try not to force it. I mean, and the writing process is different for every single person. Some people probably write like every day, like I can't even imagine that, but like in my phone, I have, in my notes app, I just have like a running little basket of little ideas and song titles and things like that. And so like, I feel like as I'm living life and kind of, you know, just getting to experience it, like just being human, then naturally I'm just inspired, oh, that's a song title or like, I see something somewhere or like a thought comes to me and I'm like, okay, that's a twist on a thought or a lyric or something and I put it in my notes app. And then I just kind of come back to it later when I have time. Like right now I'm promoting a record. Like it's, you know, there's all this inertia around that. I don't really have the creative need to start a new song. I have some ideas though that I'm, like I really want to write that. And they'll just, it's almost like it finds the time to be written or something. - All right, he had the songs on the new record. Can you remember a time where you wrote it down in your notes app and it became then the song? - All of them. - Yeah, all of them. I mean, and I, so I have this never ending, like note document that goes, I mean, it's years long. And occasionally I'll email it to myself. So if I'm like, - God forbid. - This is so to lose this. - Yeah. But yeah, I mean, I have references to all the ideas in there at some point, you know, they usually start out as a song title and then, yeah. And then I figure out what is this, how can I flip this or what is the angle of this? - Right, yeah. - I loved Coyote. - Oh, thanks. It's kind of a creepy little. - It's creepy, it's creepy. What is it, because I'm like listening to it, I'm trying to figure out what it's about. What is it about to you? - A large part of healing, getting older and kind of getting into my like 30s, is figuring out why am I attracted to emotionally unavailable people? Like emotionally avoidance. Like if you know about the attachment theory, - I'm vaguely familiar. - It's like, you know, we all for different reasons have these attachment styles that we're kind of like, we were hardwired with like from childhood or whatever. Like there's several different types, like secure attachment is the goal, right? But you can be anxiously attached, an anxiously attached person or an avoidant attached person. And that kind of dictates how you kind of move in relationships and how you, the choices you make, the people that you choose. And it's just interesting like, typically I would say when I'm like not secure, I like air on the side of the anxious attached person. And so I've typically chosen people that are avoidant. So there's always like a chaser in a relationship typically in these imbalances. Like a power struggle right and someone's like, the one pulling the other person closer, trying to advance the relationship. Like, you know, desperately one of that closeness and then the other person feels the avoidant feels suffocated by closeness. - And the anxious attachment is the person pulling. - And the anxious attached person feels like, oh my god, this person's gonna leave. You know, or I'm gonna do something and it's gonna ruin this relationship or whatever. And it's funny because the closer that the people, the two get, it just like the pattern just keeps going and the other person starts pulling out because they're like, oh, I'm gonna feel claustrophobic in this. Like, there's a whole thing about it. But like, like somewhere along the way that person was hardwired with the thought that like, to be really loved and to be close means that I lose my, autonomy, I lose my freedom. And so I don't like push it away, you know what I mean? And I've always gone for people like that. And so, you know. - Oh, so you're okay. - So this is like. - Sometimes I'm like, I'm slow. So I think I'm just like. - No, no, no, you're, you're being bitless. - Sorry, I like, no, no, no, no. - No, no, well, it was a long ass point that Adderall has not kicked in yet. But like, I'm circling to like, I saw a couple of coyotes on my property one day in Nashville, which is strange to see them in the daytime and I saw, there was two. And I was like, 'cause I was like, what is that and have these little, these knocks, I got my knocks out. And I was just like, oh, those are some coyotes. And I was like, okay, that's a song title. There's something in there. A coyote is like this beautiful creature, but they're like, and they kind of edge on like, city's edges, they're nearby, but they don't wanna get close. And if you get too close, like you might get bitten, you know what I mean, or whatever. - Wow. - And so it just kind of reminded me of like, being in a relationship with someone who is like, terrified of closeness. Basically, I'm just like likening this, it's sort of a metaphor, you know, what I mean. Like being in, you know, seeing this, this person that you're attracted to and that you want closeness with, but you know, they just kind of can't give it to you, you know. And so that's just kind of where this song came from, but in a sense, in general, just kind of examining like, what is it in me that's picking that type of person? - Right. - Several times over. And like, why? Like, why am I attracted to that? You know what I mean? There's so much to it. It's really interesting. You should read. - Have you? (laughing) - You should try reading. - I really should. I've got 12 pages into my book last night, and I fell asleep. - Yeah. - I tried. - That's honestly the best we were talking about, like taking supplements to sleep. Fucking put a read a page. - Read a page. - La Raspame. (laughing) - No, we're just read. I feel like it'll put your ass to sleep so quick. - It really did last night. I was like, oh, babe, it was giving me anxiety. I was like, I gotta put this down. - Put the book down. - Put it down. - Hey, that's better than a doom scroll though. - Doom scrolling is the pain of my existence. - But like, yeah, it's like, let me just ingest all this shit right before I close my eyes. Yeah, great idea. - It wakes me up though. - In the middle of the night. - It like, no, like when I'm doom scrolling, like I try to do it as like a form of reading, but it just, I'm never gonna sleep. - Oh no, I get in the craziest wormholes at night. Like the other day, I was like, oh yeah, I really should go to bed. Let me look up all the different types of aliens. There are apparently in the universe. - Do you believe in aliens? - Uh, yeah, I really do. - Okay, can you tell me why? 'Cause my mom is like such a skeptic. And I'm really similar to my mom. I would say-- - You are a skeptic as well. - I believe, I like take what my mom says kind of. Like I really like, when she says something, she says it with such like-- - Conviction. - Conviction that I'm like, oh, you're right. - So do you feel in general, this is interesting. I wanna know, like do you feel like the world is live existence is where you can all see it? Or do you think that it extends past that? Is there a supernatural side that you feel like exists that you can't see? Or do you feel like it's more so just, this is what it is, it's right here in front of us, or it's not. - I think I'm like, this is what it is, because I can't wrap my head around the fact that there being more to that. - Yeah. - It's like hard for me. I'm such like a fox person. - Yeah, like literal. - Yeah, I'm like, well, what do you, and I, and like do you believe like, when there's like flying saucers over, like do you believe those are alienships? Like that, I-- I guess you haven't seen the Instagram, I just created four of my weird sightings. - You, oh, you believe the best. (laughing) - I'm done. - I like it. - No, like, okay, let me just check the follower count because guys, apparently there's a lot of believers out there too. So, night before last, I was like, 'cause I really do have really interesting, unexplainable things that I see all the time for years. And I was like, I'm gonna freaking start an Instagram page. For this, so I did. And it already has, it has 25.1000 followers. It's just funny that we're talking about this because I literally the other day, there was all these like, all these news pickups about the fact that I had posted these videos of these orbs that are lights, these really strange lights that I'm me and my, one of my managers saw on a plane the other night. And I'm just seeing weird stuff all the damn time. So, it just like finds me, I swear. But also the more you look for it, the more you see. And I feel like once I started noticing it, it was probably around like 2012. It just, I've seen the crazy, like if I really did tell people like all the things that I've seen, they'd be like, she's lock her away. Like she's batshit. - What's the craziest thing you've seen? - I mean, lots of different, like, unidentified flying things. And it started in Mexico, like back in like 2012. And I was with other people, was not high, was not drunk, nothing. And that was just this whole crazy thing that I can't even wrap my brain around, like what it could have been. And then literally four days later, I was back at my house in Nashville, me and my boyfriend at the time. And we were like watching family guy. I was like 10 p.m. And we were out on the screen porch. And I, out of the corner of my eye, kind of above the neighborhood, I saw these two massive balls of fire that were like, it looked like flaming suns. Like at first I thought, oh, is that something on fire? But I like, we ran on the street and looked. And yeah, they were just two silent, massive balls of fire that were just sort of slowly, silently, kind of floating flying, like, above the neighborhood. And we like followed them to the end of the street and then they just disappeared. And I was like, okay, like. - And you had someone with you to be like, I saw that tattoo. - Yeah, yeah. And that same person was at the first sighting. And then since then, it's just been like, just the weirdest stuff. - Yeah, you're not looking hard enough. - Like, I was thinking about this one yesterday, as I was flying in, but at one time I was flying in to California. I can't remember if it was LA or if it was like, what city it was, but it was daytime. I was flying solo. I was like by myself. I mean, it was on a commercial plane, but there was, and there were other people, but it was like not a packed flight. And I had the road of myself. And I was just like looking out the window and maybe about 10 yards away from the plane, just floating out there, was I can just describe it as like, it was like a cobalt blue color, like spinning top. It looked like a spinning top. And it was maybe about the size of like a small car. And I was like, is anyone else seeing this? Like it made me feel insane. And it was just, there was no lights on it or anything. It was just a spinning blue top. And I was like, what the hell? - Did you have a phone about that? - No, I didn't, no. A lot of these things I don't have photos of. I think I was just like, when you see something like that, you're like, holy shit. But the other night, I did catch a bunch of videos of the ones that like me and my manager, Bobby saw on this plane ride. - Oh. - And they were unreal. Like there was just no way you can just like, - There's no way we're alone. - I just, I don't know. I mean, I'm just constantly like, I don't think that we are alone. I think that would be kind of wild. And also kind of maybe a little bit silly. sad, but I'm just constantly torn. It's like, does the government know? And they're just hiding it. But also, like, do we trust anything the government says? Any ways. And they're going to use it as an obscene files distraction anyway. So like, but I'm like, but do they know because the public would there would be a mass freak out religion would collapse. Like, you know what I'm saying? Like, they got it. Yeah, I guess so, right? Yeah. Did you watch the age of disclosure? I haven't. Okay. I haven't. I watched it. What is it? Okay. So it's this movie. I think it's on Amazon. And it's with a bunch of ex government employees. So my dad, my dad is like you. And he's like, and he's like, it is the most insane thing and that my mom is like, they are disgruntled ex government employees. So that's how my mom views it. And she's like, they like, they're just angry that they like aren't working with the government anymore. And I like, you know what I mean? So I'm like, oh, who do I believe? I guess I have to watch it. But I'm so easily swayed. I mean, the problem is, is that now AI exists? So even if I had like the most clear, amazing high res footage of like the most unbelievable thing, nobody would believe it anyway. So like, I kind of have this thought that like was AI floated out there. If the government does know some shit and they like knew or I don't know, we're aware of think more things coming to light was AI pushed out to just kind of keep us confused. So the real stuff could hide amongst the fake stuff and nobody knows what's real. Oh God, that thought is so scary. I'm like not knowing because AI becoming so it is becoming real, real, real. Yeah, it is. How was that impacted the music scene for you? It hasn't gotten into my world at all. I mean, I don't fuck with it, but like also, I'm kind of like, does anyone actually think AI music is good? No, I feel like part of the whole specialness of music is that it came from a human's experience, right? And it's relatable that way. Like anyone can turn out or any machine could turn out like your candy that is like, engineered to be like liked. But I don't think it has the same value, right? Because there's no struggle behind it. No machine can turn out golden hour. Period. No machine could ever turn out golden hour. Like that. Oh my God. Can we talk about golden hour for that? Yeah, sure. That album has like really gotten me through some shit, but not even just romantically just living life. It was a comfort album for you. It was just like, this is it almost to me feels like a Bible for how to live life. Oh, I love that. And then pairing it with deeper well, as well, which I also like, I love that. I'm about to go through my Saturn return. Oh, hang on. What? Oh God. What do you mean? I can't get rough, but you'll be better for it. How was your Saturn return? It was rough. Divorce. I moved houses like, yeah, it was intense. It was it was intense. I really do think there's something to it for sure, but it does make way for I think maybe more authenticity, more room, kind of clearing, you know. So yeah, but just have his anex on hand or something. Yes. I actually didn't want to ask you about your relationship to weed. Because I thought you were just going to say, I did want to ask about your relationship to Xanax, which do you have one? I mean, sometimes you just need a chill pill. I really do. Like it is. My brain is so blah blah blah blah all the time that I need something to just shut it off. Maybe try meditation. Do you meditate? No. No, I do sometimes, but not as much as I used to do it twice a day, but I've been journaling. That's good. Journal and I've been journaling to Golden Hour. Really? Yes. Oh, I love that. Yeah, because it makes me like think about like the simplicity of life and like finding just like writing it because I feel like I journal to write about things that I would normally forget. I'll never forget interviewing you this day, but all or talking to you this day. But all I won't like there are moments where I'm like, and then I asked her about aliens not knowing that she had just created an alien and like little things like that to the nuances of like the all the moments that yeah, you kind of skim over later. Yeah. Yeah. I've been journaling for years for that reason because I feel like when I'm an old-ass lady, I'm going to be like, wow, I had an interesting life. You do have an interesting life. I do. I really do. But I did want to ask about your relationship with Weed because on deeper well, you said I used to wake in Bake. Yeah. Roll out of bed. I know. It was girl. Yeah, I don't know why at one point in my life. I was like, let me get as high as possible before I do anything. I feel that I was that way. Yeah. And then I took a nine month break and now I'm back on the wagon. You are. I am. I kind of am too a little bit to be honest. Okay. Really because of rhinestone. Yeah. Which you can get rhinestone in a lot of different ways, you know, pick your poison. But yeah, like it's funny. Everyone was like, she doesn't smoke Weed and I was like, I never said I didn't smoke Weed. I'm just saying I don't hit a gravity bong right when I wake up. That was made out of a two-liter And you put it in a water bucket. It's whatever. It's fine. But yeah, like here and there. I've been kind of like Dabbling again. Maybe not. I'm not these people that do like the shatter in the wax since damn. I don't Even know what you just said. What is that? It's so it's just a method. It's a form of Weed. It's like a condensed very like concentrated form and it will like it'll send you yeah it will send you to like yeah But anyways, yeah, but just like a chill like I'm a one puff girl really we're taking one puff and then if you cough Oh, you're you're done. It's I'm going inward. Yeah, I'm gonna go I'm gonna get non-verbal after that. So I just you know little bit Let's you know just take the edge off. I think it makes me nicer. I think it makes me nicer too But then I think the calm down of it. I reach a little bit of mania Oh really and that's why I had to stop because like for these like 20 minutes I would have these like grandiose ideas and like And like those ideas being like literally like the dumbest things in the entire What if they were like kind of genius? To me at the time they were but then the mania I would get so paranoid It caused such paranoia that I was like I need to the paranoia does yeah, I don't like that or anxiety I'm like just anything let's mitigate the anxiety anything to just get that out right right and that's what yeah But yeah, anyway a little bit of dabble have you written any of your songs? Why hi? Um Little seeds of ideas come from Come from being high. I think I wrote some down the other day actually. Let me see what I would love to hear this Oh, we'll see what I have Don't want your breath um Well one of the things I wrote down is but do aliens believe in me really think about it. That's it And then I also put separate I feel like the presence of greatness But then this is another one I wrote down the other day. I had a dream that I wrote a song called I wish I was my boyfriend I love that I wish I was my boyfriend. Oh please keep going. This is like I feel like I do want to write a song though and it's like it has yet to be written but I think the breaking news is finally broken me I think there's a song in there Anyway, yeah, there's a song in there Um wow that is really beautiful, but I have a shit load of things in here doesn't mean it's should all be said but Um, maybe they're oh this was one I kind of feel like I feel like maybe I don't know if this is more of a girl relatable idea, but like writing about a friend breakup Oh, no, no, no, I I relate to that. There's something about like when Like you When you pivot in a friendship and you know, you have to let go of of a friend Specifically, I feel like in female relationships. I feel like female friendships get they're so intimate Um, that it's almost sometimes more and not in a sexual way. It's just it can be more intimate than um Like a romantic relationship with like your boyfriend or whatever like I don't know friendship break up It's almost like you're losing a sibling in a way or something. Yeah, has that same kind of feeling. It's like um Yeah, like a soul sister or whatever that's it's it's really not not Fun, I don't like that feeling, you know, but I mean also friendships. I think armant to ebb and flow and I don't know people just kind of it's not like on purpose sometimes, you know Um, you actually have a lyric that I listen to sometimes when I think about my friendship breakups and it's like It's on deeper well. It's It's something when things lose their shine. Mm-hmm. It's natural when things it's it's no regrets baby I just I just think that maybe it's natural when things lose their shine and for that that lyric for me is Kind of so healing because it's like Things are supposed to think you can't be shiny forever Yeah, and I know for you that might have been about a relationship or whatever But for me the way that I listen to it and I take it as I do listen to it and think about like friendships past mm-hmm and Yeah, you know and you never know things can circle back around with people like sometimes you just need to pause if it's Don't force it, you know what I mean? I think it's hard. I just think it's like lonely or then a breakup because friends are like Is there is something there is something different about it and that's I think just what I wrote down on my phone is like There I don't know that I've heard and maybe there's a song out there, but like a song about Breaking up with a friend. - I'm sure there is, like every time there's a room. - There might be, but there's not a Casey one, and I need that. - Okay, well, we should co-write it. - Oh, don't see it, Casey, seriously? 'Cause I will follow up. (laughing) 'Cause I will follow up, and you'll be like, "Why the fuck is this?" - I'll be like, "God, what did I say that? What did I like all for that?" - No, before we started recording, we were talking about the transition from dry spell to back on the wagon. And Casey was like, someone commented, "Oh my God, "cause back on the wagon is not what you would think "it's going to be." - I saw some comment that was like, when the track list came out, and it was like, in my mind, it was some girl. And some girl was like, wow, can't wait to see the transition from dry spell to back on the wagon, and I was thinking, oh, they're gonna get got it. And that girl was you. - It was me, it was literally, I remember commenting that being like, mm, like, I remember being like, I hate that. - I was like, can't wait for them to see, and then, yeah, that was literally you. I had no idea. (laughing) It was me. So what is back on the wagon about to you, 'cause you say he's back on the wagon. - Right. - Break it down for me. - Sure. Basically, I think it's speaking mostly to the character that I have been in my relationships in different forms, like, throughout the years. And I've been this like, hopeful girl when I pick somebody who like, you know, everybody's on their own healing journey, but like, I'm just tired of being, like, I think a lot of women pick men that they have to like, helping the man improve their life, like in so many different ways. And like, for once, I'm just like, can I just get an equal, you know what I mean? - Yeah. - And I've been the girl a lot where I'm like, hey, I can like, make your life better. And I can help you and I can do this. And, you know, the guy's like, yeah, I'm gonna change. Like, I'm gonna, you know, and I'm just like this. Maybe it's not being naive and being young and just being like, they're gonna change. Just kind of being like in love with someone's potential. And being like, ooh, but they're gonna be better guys. Like, he said he's different now. He's back on the wagon. He's not, you know, drinking anymore, doing this anymore. He's gonna be, I swear, like, he's totally changed. He's back on the wagon guys. Like, and it's like. - Your wordplay is some of the most clever in the fucking game. - Thank you. - Because you would think back on the wagon, he's drinking again, but you're like, actually he's on the mend of being a better person. - He's back on the sober wagon. He's back on the, I've changed, whatever. And it's like, I've been that girl so many times. It's like, girl, he's not, you know, he's, this is who he is right now. Or the most part, people are just who they are, you know, unless they just really want to have a personality overall and that's really hard. - Do you believe people can change? - If they really, really want to, but they have to really want to. And it has to come from, it can't be someone else's idea. But do you think like the basis of who that person is? My grandma always says no. - Much. - What, that they can't change. - Like who they are is who they are. - Yeah. - I think grandma's right on this one. I think mostly, but I will say maybe sometimes, like there are these hard lessons that you need to learn sometimes in life. And sometimes you gotta kind of maybe gotta hit a rock bottom to really see the gravity of like, oh fuck. All right, like I gotta, like you, if you don't hit the rock bottom, you may not see that you have to change, but most times someone is gonna be who they are. So like when they show you a first time, fucking pay attention, if they show you a second time, just no. - How are you good at cutting people out? - I have gotten that way. And not to be like ruthless or like, you know, sometimes I feel like in this modern age, people can be too much like, I'm cutting them off. Like they, you know. - Her. (laughing) - And I think people have to have room to be human also, because nobody's perfect. But like if, you know, if you're not being valued, like why are you sticking around somewhere? - And I think your music does a really, really good job of showcasing that. - Thanks. I mean like what a wild trip it is, right? To be human and to be alive. And like we really don't know if there's anything else after this, you know? I like to believe that they're like in the, that there is a lot to it that we can't see, but I just think there's so much magic in actually being like right here and being alive. And like you brought up Deeper Well, but like Heaven is the song on that record, is kind of about that. It's like, you know, people talk about like a Heaven, you know, or this, like when I get to Heaven, it's like, and to me it was like in that moment where I was in my life, it was like, no, Heaven was, you know, the walk I went on this morning, or like, you know, the flower that somebody picked and gave to me that I put in a little vase of water. It's like, it's wearing my favorite like tattered t-shirt. It's, you know, it's like Heaven is in the moments where you're actually, you're still alive for, you know? - Yeah. And I also feel like you can hear it in other songs as well, like the architect. - Mm-hmm. - Where you're like, what does this mean for you? Someone tell me. - Yeah, like, can someone tell me what's going on? - Yeah. God, wow. (upbeat music) Thank you, Deepop, for sponsoring tonight's episode. If you noticed, I've been wearing more vintage stuff, which I've spoken about. It is because I've been using Deepop to help curate my own personal style, which I feel like I've always been lacking. For tonight, I am wearing KC Deeper Well Merch that I found on Deepop. Like, I love, I always talk about it, but I love Merch so much. Like, I love Old Merch as well. Like, Old Artist Merch from like an Old Album or an Old Tour, and Deeper Well might not be old, but it's not the current album. So, finding stuff from past eras, I think, is so cool. Deepop is a fashion resale marketplace where personal taste has real value. It's the easiest and most rewarding place to sell fashion. You can list your first item in less than five minutes. It is so easy. There's also no seller fees, which means more money in your pocket. It is really, it's truly such an authentic, vintage, shopping experience online. This shirt, like that I bought from Deepop, means something to me, and it obviously meant something to the seller. So, it really makes for such a personal experience and shopping, and like, you can use other people's personal styles and passions to help curate your own, which I think Deepop is just incredible at. Also, I've been talking a lot about a spring reset, and like, there's no better place to hone in on your personal style for a spring reset for clothing than Deepop. 'Cause at the end of the day, clothing as art is made by people, so like, I know it sounds cheesy, but these people selling this art, like it obviously means something to them. So, it really is so helpful in like, I know when I'm buying something on Deepop, I'm buying it because I like it, not because it's just for sale. Like, I'm buying it because I've scrolled and I've looked, and that's the thing that I like, and I want it. Download the Deepop app now and start listing today. Thank you again, Deepop, for sponsoring tonight's episode. (upbeat music) Thank you, Poppy, for sponsoring tonight's episode and this season, as you guys know, there is no soda in this world. I love more than Poppy. You also know my favorite flavor, besides Shirley Temple, is always cherry lime made, so that's why I always have one with me. Poppy is a better for you soda, with prebiotics and five grams of sugar, and that's why Poppy has become such an integral part of I feel like everyone's lives. I see it, it's so crazy seeing the rise of it for the past few years, 'cause I used to be, so I used to have the hardest time finding them in convenience stores and I literally find them everywhere now, and I just feel like that's a testament to how good it is. Also, I am on my own personal fitness journey, so being able to have soda not feel bad about myself after, which is something that I'm just struggled with personally, is a game changer for me. Like, I die for Poppy. Like, if you know, you know when I was posting videos back in 2023, like 17 times a day, I was making up random jingles for Poppy, and just like, it was like, so the fact that they're like now sponsoring the podcast is just, it feels so correct. Poppy, soda's back, but so much better. Well, Casey, what are you therapist about today? What if it's nothing? I don't know. It can be nothing. It doesn't have to be anything. Pist like as in I'm pissed off. Yeah. What's yours? Mine is missed my workout. Oh, and I'm trying to like be like, it's fine. It's fine. It's not fine. You actually want to know what my real one is? Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's so shallow. You're going to be like literally like in the interview. I posted an Instagram dump, and you forgot one picture. I just like didn't feel like it did what it needed to do. Louise was like this, but Louise said to me, this isn't giving what you think it's given. Isn't it, isn't it weird how some just don't? Yeah. And you're like, ooh, what was that? It's like I love, I am also pissed about the fact that I'm entering this era of wanting to curate my life again. Oh, yeah. And I felt like I was out of that for so long. And I feel like I'm entering it. And I like where it's like, I want to be seen as cool. I like cool boy. Well, maybe the curation is in the uncuration. It is. That makes sense. And like I found, and I was that for so long. And that's when I connected with the most amount of people is when I didn't care about what was going on. When there wasn't a curated. But now I'm back to curating because I feel a track. I wonder what that is. It's that I feel physically attractive again. And I like my body. And I'm like, that's awesome. It is awesome, but I'm having trouble. I'm starting to like one more too. - Yeah, but I'd like, I'm, I'm. I'm starting to fall into that trap that I once fell into where it's like, once I like my body or I like my appearance, now I have to behave a certain way or act a certain way. - Be brave. - Or misbehaved. - Like, you know what I mean? I'm like, it all stems from like this deeper, deeper, deeper, deeper, deeper insecurity that I have, that it's like, maybe I, I don't know what I'm trying to say. It's like, I'm falling into this era where I, I'm happy to present myself physically to the world again 'cause I felt for a while very insecure and unattractive. And in, in presenting myself, these new insecurities kind of come about again that are like, but make sure you look like this, make sure you look like this, make sure you look like this. And I think that's, if that makes, I think that was a lot of word vomit, but if that makes sense. - But it's interesting that you're saying in a roundabout sense that the newfound security is also for some reason giving you insecurity. - Yes, I don't know why. - I wonder why. Well, maybe because like you're feeling yourself and you're feeling the urge to like, put yourself out there again, but with that does come some opinions, right? I don't know, and is there like a fear of that? - I think it's a fear of like. I'm your therapist now. - No, please. And honestly, this is like my dream. I think it's like, I think I'm still insecure is what it is. - I mean, aren't we all Jesus Christ? For me, it's a rotating, it's like a rotating door of what are you gonna feel today? Some days I'm like, yeah, mhm. And then some days I'm just like, I'm the fuggliest person I've ever fucking seen. And it's body dysmorphia kicks in, you know what I mean? It's real. - It's real. - No, I have that. - It's real. - Like I literally have that. - I think what it is is that the base I thought I've created is not as secure as I thought. It's like, it's literally like plain Tetris. Or not Tetris, what's the Jenga? Jenga. - Oh yeah, yeah, yeah. - It's like Jenga, it's like. - An anxiety game. - Yeah, it's like the base that I thought I had isn't as powerful as I thought because all it takes is one night out where I'm feeling good and then a man will be like flirting with me and then I'll see him flirting with someone else and then everything just completely 180s. - I think you're anxiously attached. - Okay. - I think you're an anxious attacher. - What is it? Okay, can you explain? - Okay. - Please. - Let me make it that. No, no, it's really interesting. There's a book and the psychologist studied, probably gonna butcher this myself. But they studied the way that it could be even how much your mother or your caregiver, whoever, picked you up and loved on you physically. How much did that happen? Or were they not in the picture? Or there's probably so much psychologically that goes into it where you left to cry it out versus being, there's probably so many. And how your parents showed you love, how you responded to, shaped how you crave love and give love, you know what I mean? How you give and receive. And so the goal is to be a securely attached person. So no matter how the other person is regulated or not, like you're standing firm and your security in the relationship knowing that what, however that other person behaves has nothing to do with you, it all has to do with them. - Wow, and that's the goal. - And that's the goal is to stand firm in that. But usually most people sway to ones out of the other. So either anxious or avoidant. And it kind of just speaks to like how you view connection, I guess. And so like an anxious attacher just really wants that closeness and they have this deep seated fear that they're either not good enough or that the person's gonna leave or the relationship's just gonna like fall apart. And so they hold on tighter. And maybe they control more or they like, you know, maybe they create issues that aren't there. Like, hey, you didn't call me back. Like it's worst case in everything. They didn't call me back for six hours. They must hate me. - Yeah, that's right. - You know what I mean? Did I do something wrong? Did they hate me? Whatever. And then the flip side of that is the person who feels very like suffocated kind of trapped or claustrophobic by deep connection. Maybe they have a deep fear of being rejected if someone really sees who they are. - So they push? - I do think that there is a hybrid, which is fucked. - Yeah. (laughing) - I don't know how to help you. But yeah, but normally it's interesting to avoid it. Don't usually get into a relationship together because there's gotta be, there's this like, almost like this mathematical need for like a push and a pull in a relationship. And so usually it's the anxious, the pursuer and then the person that's backing off and it makes the other person pursue more. And then it just kinda like does that. But yeah, it's really, really an interesting theory. And the book is really helpful. And it speaks to like if you're anxiously attached or if you're avoidant, like here's kind of like how you can sort of like move more towards like a securely attached, you don't wanna be too far on either side. - I feel like I hear this a lot in your music. The one you're telling me about this, I'm like, I'm thinking of songs give or take her. - Oh yeah, nothing to be scared of. - Oh, nothing to be scared of. (laughing) - I know that one hurts. - You know that one for me when I first to I remember actually exactly where I was. I was in that back area, smoking a joint with my best friends and the chorus to nothing to be scared of or nothing to be scared of came on. And we all just like took a moment. - Oh. - Come to me and drop your bags. - Yeah, yeah. - But I will help you unpack them. Like I've never, that, 'cause that's the goal. That's all I would-- - We all have the baggage. Like we all come to relationships carrying luggage from previous places. And yeah, you just gotta be with the right people that will help you go, okay, you have this, well, I have this. Let's put it away, you know what I mean? And it was me just really trying to convince the person that subconsciously it was a song kind of to them in a sense saying to an avoidant person saying you have nothing to be scared of. Like I'm here. Like I'm not, you know, like love is not something to be fearful of. And then that person broke up with me over text. So it meant it was all for nothing. - You know what the-- - But the songs were there. - So. - Wow. I like love hearing you talk about the story behind those songs. 'Cause like-- - A lot of real life. - It's a, but that's the magic of you. I like really feel like I'm in the presence of greatness right now. - Oh my God. - No, and I'm sorry. I really don't wanna make you feel weird or anything. But like I really feel like I'm in the breath. I like genuinely feel like I'm in the presence of like one of the greatest songwriters of my life, of our life because you speak your experience without fear of. And I think did that change for you a little after Golden Hour after you felt a little more seen publicly? - That's an interesting question because like, you know, I make all the music because it makes, it does something for me. It's their, their put it for me, right? And it's just a cherry on the cake that like other people connect with it, right? And then something happens like album of the year. And out of all the music that was made, I mean, for whatever reason, it won that title and that was extremely live-changing for me. And it can be freaky because, you know, you can go, you're at a fork in the road there when something like that happens because you can either go, okay, like I feel validated in the fact that when I made Golden Hour, it was unlike any other record I had previously made that it was very different than same trailer and pageant material. And I felt like I was kind of going out on a limb a bit like with the style of it. But I felt like it was really special to me. And I had no road map other than just like what made me feel really good. And then it ended up really connecting. And I think there's a lot to what makes an album like really land. It's like a lot of time in play, like right time, right place. The climate in the world just supports it for whatever reason. And you can go, okay, I feel really validated that people really connected with this. I'm going to keep doing that, you know what I mean? I'm going to keep like my only compass needs to be what makes me feel good and what feels authentic to me because ultimately that's what's going to keep connecting, right? But it can also admittedly give you a little bit of like, oh shit, like now people do they really expect another Golden Hour? Right. And I think it's interesting because you know, Golden Hour happened. And while I was at like this really high like high point in my like creative life, I was at a really low point in my personal life, my love life. Coming out of that and going through a divorce and then writing Star Cross, which was like a record that I had to make as a creative. And I was in this really intense kind of visceral place in my life and the music sort of reflects that. It's like there's a lot of like electronic elements. It's kind of harsh at times. It's very layered and affected. And I think a lot of people were like thrown off by it because they really wanted another Golden Hour. That's what they were expecting. And it was a total pivot. And I would like to think that I have the fan base that if they maybe if they don't like totally love the album that I put out, maybe they can at least respect the fact that but I didn't just turn the. the same goddamn thing in or try to recreate it because you can't recreate that magic twice. It's gonna sound fake. You can probably get similar, but it'll just eventually start sounding like you're creating the same thing over and over and you're gonna sound like a pigeon hold. It's not gonna have that fresh that life to it. And so anyway, justice for Star Cross, that's all I'm saying. I love Star Cross. I love Star Cross too. Did you feel that was that pressure really hard for you to deal with though? Like after everyone's like, okay, Golden Hour, part two, here we go. Or were you like- It was annoying to me that people, I don't think they got it. I really don't think that they got Star Cross, but I also was just like, I really don't care. I mean, I fucking loved making that album and there was so much like beautiful cosmic synergy through me and that album and making it and just the imagery and where it was that and the storytelling and then the home, the movie that I got to the Star Cross movie that I got to make with it. I mean, it's something that I'm really proud of. So like, I don't really care if you don't get it. It feels good to me, but I just think it's more so about what people were expecting. But like I really love when an artist takes a chance and if I don't love their new record or whatever, I'll catch them on the next one. I'll be like, whatever. Wow, I love that you just said that I feel like in today's culture, with Twitter and Stan Bezos and how fast the news cycle goes. People like kind of, what is it? I want to say they make your worth to them or your importance equal to how much they connect with your latest creation. And that's not really like what it should be about, I feel. They put so much weight onto like, did I connect with this? I'm off of her. Right. Right. And it's like, she fell off. But it's you fell in love with that person because that person wrote music as a person. And like you just so happened to convert at the same time. To convert at the same time. Yeah, and relate. And like, it's okay that you don't on this one. Maybe you'll love the next one. Right. Yeah, it's interesting. Yeah. I've never heard it laid out like that, but that is really what I think is going on in our. Yeah. Like if you think about like, I'm trying to think of an example just like any like weasor. I'm just trying to think of like any band that I've like loved for a long time or like, I'm just trying to think of like any like patty Griffin, any songwriter, whoever. Like they might put out a record, not me. I might like really fucking love it. And then like their next one, I might be like, it's not really for me, but I can still respect who they are and respect that, hey, they tried something different. I think a perfect example is Brat by Charlie X, it came at the perfect time. It was just the perfect storm of like this harsh. I feel like we were so and I think we were trapped by COVID longer than we thought. Oh, are we? Yeah. I know. I'm like, was that a wormhole? Like did we, I felt some theory was like, did we all actually die during COVID and this is hell? No. Sometimes I think if I'm driving in a car and I almost get hit by a car, there's a parallel universe in which I did get hit by that car. There probably is. Yeah, right. No, it's trippy. It's trippy. It's trippy. We probably don't want to get on the subject of quantum physics because then we'll be here forever and you'll be like, I'm never ever going to talk to her ever again. No, I just won't understand. I'll have to go sentence by sentence. Where the Tommy was wrong. They're over by UK. It's the envelope right there. Oh, yeah, that's right. Let's look at these. Oh, do the honors. Do the honors. Do the honors. Do the honors. I wish you could stay here forever. I know. I'm going to sleep over with Casey would be the best man in my life. On a plate, that'd be a fun like series or something. Or like not series, but like a little like. You've now sprouted an idea. So I'm saying. Yeah. Yeah. We're going to bake cookies. We're going to break each other's hair. Yes. We're going to play board games. That's a weed. That's a weed. We're going to do a Ouija board. All right, you're probably not into that. I'm into whatever you were into. OK, so do I read these or do you please? My close friend home wrecked home wrecked is in all caps, by the way. My close friend home wrecked a relationship with one of my close friends. And it's confused why I won't stand up for her. It's a town scandal. We've been friends for years, but this may be the end for real. As someone in a relationship, I don't want to defend her and condone the behavior. Am I allowed to drop her? I feel like she needs a little help since everyone's hanging up on her, but it's not a good look, you know? I think you might be the problem in the sense that you're viewing this friendship as a look thing. Like you're like, it's not, you're she saying like, what do you think? I've been friends with some home workers before. It's a conflicting place to be in. And you're, because you're like, oh, why are you making bad choices like that? But just because they made the bad decisions doesn't mean they need to lose you. Yeah, that's true. Maybe they need some truth teller. But see, yeah, maybe they need some truth tellers. Here's my question. Guys, is can you be truthful with this girl? And really like tell her what maybe she doesn't want to hear, you know, because that's a real friend. Not just, I understand not just walking out because somebody did something embarrassing, but if maybe if this is a pattern for this girl or whatever, then I think it does speak to a larger character. And like, do you want to be friends with someone like that? Right. But also, I guess that's her business, right? It's so not black and white. You need more context on her friendship, because she's probably feeling I'm in a relationship. There's probably that underlying feeling of would she homework my relationship? Right. Yeah, like what is her moral, where are her moral standards? Like how far could she go? Right. But I would say it's very hard to drop someone. It's not hard. It's very, when someone's out there lowest, sometimes I do believe that you kind of just have to let them hold on to you for a second as they get their stand in. That's true. Like, maybe sometimes you have to give someone a place where they can maybe be their shittiest version of themselves and still receive the love, you know? Yeah. But at the same time, I mean, there's a line for everything, right? But that's a toughy. That's a toughy. I prescribe home record by Sombra. Ooh. Do you have a song of yours that you would have them listen to? Maybe not Dry Spel. Not Dry Spel. Maybe deeper well. Yeah, let's go inward. Yeah. Let's go inward. Okay. Do you want to read the next one? Okay. I'm so hyper fixated on being in a relationship as I'm 29 and never had a boyfriend either. And but I'm 26. I put myself out there, but I'm so insecure that I always just overcompensate and make a fool of myself or shut down entirely. What can I do to take the pressure off this ticking clock? Well, I do feel like it's a cliche, but it's really, really true that the moment that you really kind of stop caring and you like stop wanting something so bad is kind of usually like in terms of relationships and love. It's kind of when it defines you. That's like kind of what happens to me is like when I feel like when I'm not looking for it at all, then like there it is. How do you stop looking? Is it fake until you make it? I think maybe just focusing on yourself and your interests and like I feel like if you put yourself in positions to where like you're, I don't know, whatever it is that you like to do, like you just keep pursuing you. You're going to maximize your chances of running into someone that is very like minded and that you might find a lot of common ground with and it won't feel like this like forced thing that you're like not sure of. Yeah. Yeah, nobody likes to try hard. Like that's like I feel like someone can spot that from a mile away as someone who desperately want and it kind of gives like vibes of like, oh you know, you know, that reminds you of is your song when you're upcoming record Lonely is Girl. Oh, yeah. It does or a space cowboy. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, for sure. But like Lonely is Girl specifically, it's like I made a lot of peace during this album time frame. I made a lot of peace with like being on my own and being single and it was the longest single period that I've ever had and I used to be kind of like really terrified to be alone. And I dropped that with this. I was like, wait, it's kind of awesome. Like I kind of started to really prefer it and just as I was really starting to like prefer it is when I like met somebody and I was like, okay. And then you're kind of conflicted there because you're like, fuck, I've been really valuing my like, um, sovereignty, my like freedom, my me. Yeah. And now I have this. And now, yeah. But I think after you have been like single for a while and you find the value in that and the confidence in that, um, then you're able to kind of just put things back in your life or put things in your life that like really only add. Mm-hmm. So, I don't know what would you say to that person? I am that person. Okay. You wrote that card. I wrote it. I would say for me, I think it's different, uh, being gay. And I think why do you think it's different? Because I didn't get to have those experiences of crushes in high school that the way most straight people would. You mean being like closeted and being gay? No, no, just being gay, there weren't many. It's like you're in a class. I was in a class of 60 kids and you know, it was girl like boy, girl like boy. Yeah. And for me, it was like, well, if there's one other gay person, what you should obviously go for them and I think, uh, have you. - And you were like not about it. - It just wasn't for me. And I think that's a tough feeling and I have a group of gay guy friends that have changed my life. And I think finding for me the way that I have really like that has therapy as myself is surrounding myself with Will, Travis, and Charlie who are my best friends and like being like, I feel this way like, do you feel this way too? And they're like, yeah, I also feel that way. - Yeah. - I'm just like feeling not alone in the fact that it's okay that I haven't had all the experiences that my girlfriends have, 'cause I'm a girls guy. - Yeah, yeah, yeah. - I was raised around women like all my best friends are girls, but to have those gay guy friends for me has really been like-- - Probably pretty validating. - Very validating. And it's made me more confident. Because I think like also my gay guy friends are like, you would, they're like the most beautiful people in the entire world to me. And like for them to also be like, I feel that same way, it's very validating. - Yeah, I totally, I totally get that. I'm glad you have that. - My husband is friends with two girls from childhood who definitely hate me. And I also definitely dislike them. Not to mention one of them used to have a fat crush on him. I brought this up to him subtly and he told me he'd cut them off if I really wanted to. But I don't wanna be the reason anyone loses friendships. What do I do? - Why do they hate her? I guess they're just being-- - Have you ever experienced that? - Not really, but it'd be really hard to not be like fine and cut them off then. - Yeah. - Bye then. I don't know, I mean like, I don't know what would you say to that? - I would say your husband is putting you in a tough place by being like, if you want me to, I will. - He offered it. Just do it then. - It sounds like he offered it. And so maybe my question for him is, it doesn't sound like the relationship, his friendship with those two girls, which is that weird? Anyway. - It sounds like it wasn't that stable or worth keeping to begin with. If he was so easily able to be like, well, I'll just cut him off. - Right. - Well then, okay. - Maybe he likes the validation from one of them that they used to have a crush on him. - He loves being in the middle of it. If he goes thing, for sure. Okay, so wait, he's the problem. - He's the problem. - Yeah. - That's what we cleared that up. - I've been talking to this guy and he's been stealing my underwear. I've caught him twice now. The first time he was joking about taking them after we hooked up. And then when he left, I looked on the floor and realized it wasn't a joke. We texted about it and he was like, I wasn't joking. Then I was like, okay, that's maybe semi-normal. IDK, I'll look past it. But he did it again. I don't know. For me, I'd be like, that's sweet. - What is she getting out of this? - I don't know. But for me, I'd be like, oh my god, he wants my underwear. - He can Venmo her. - Yeah, I like. - I don't know. Like, okay, $300 each pair. - Right. - What, like, what are we? - Like how? - Because it has to be mutually beneficial. - Right. I, for me, I'm such like a weirdo. I feel like that I'd be like, oh my god, Louis. He keeps taking my underwear. - But is it weird if he asks you if he can have them because I feel like probably the thrill is like taking them. You know what I mean for him? - Yeah. - I'm not speaking for personal. (laughing) But yeah, I'm like, I don't, it is weird, but I don't wanna kink shame. - Right. - I don't wanna, yeah, but like, what is she getting out of it? - Thousand. Okay. - This is a beautiful one to add, no, I think. I love singing and songwriting and I've done it my whole life. I'm getting to a point where if I want to continue, I need to make some things a reality. It's very clear that the people in my life don't believe in me or just flat out don't care, which is fine, but it doesn't help. I'm really considering giving up on this and going back to college for something else, but I can't help but not let this dream go when I think about moving on. Any advice? - It sounds like they're not that good. (laughing) - I guess you think. - Um, chase the dream girl. Oh no, I'm just kidding. I really don't know what to say. (laughing) I don't know to say like, can we hear the music? - Right, we would have to hear the music. - We would have to hear the music, but like, who's not caring? I mean, I don't know, like, I didn't really consider if I was even good or not. I just never had a backup plan. I was just like, I'm fucking doing this. I didn't go to college. I was like, no, like it just was in my mind. I was like, this, no, this is what I'm doing. And I just kind of dealt with everything like along the way. So like, I was really lucky. I will say like in having my family's support from a very early age, it was like, almost too much. It was like, oh, let's load up the minivan and go state to state in like, then my whole childhood kind of became about performing. So I kind of have the opposite thing, which I'm really glad that I had it now, because it's like quite literally made me who I am. So that would be really sad to feel like you don't have your, you know, your people's like support. But I mean, if it's like a burning desire that you have, I mean, you have to see it through. You got it, you got it. I think like you have to give it your all, knowing that you did. So, you know what I mean? Like you can say, I fucking really tried. This important thing happened to me. Or maybe it just like shapeshifts along the way and if you have to have a different source of income, I mean, there's a lot of people who have, there's a lot of creatives that have some form of a job that pays the bills that maybe isn't soul-fulfilling. Mm-hmm. And then like they find a way to do that soul-fulfilling thing. And maybe it's not the thing that's the breadwinner, but it's like, but it's there. Be a starving artist. But there, yeah. Eat ramen. Yeah. Well, before I let you go, can I ask you what your favorite song or maybe a lyric? (laughing) Can I ask you what your favorite song or maybe like a favorite lyric that you've ever written is? Why are you doing this to me? I just, I have to. That's a toxic question. I know, but I have to. Something you're most proud of. Oh man, I relate to all of them for so many different reasons. I mean, like, I don't know why hook-up scene just came to mind. I like really, really love that song so much. I think ultimately, maybe slow burn. I think it feels the best. I feel like I'm at home in my dead center whenever I'm playing that song always. My favorite line from that song obviously is, and it sounds going down, but invaging. They're headed out to work. What do you mean by that? Me and, me and Manny, who I work with, debated every single day. Really? It's not like a deep coded thing. I know, so what is it? So what does that mean to you? It literally just means what it means. It just means they're going to work. And I'm over here, like, the sun's going down in Tennessee and like, over there across the world, people are like, it's a different day and they're like, going to work and starting their next day. And like, I'm over here and it was very like, stream of conscious. I wasn't putting a lot of thought. And like, it just kind of came out, you know what I mean? Because I was just picturing, I was sitting on my porch in Tennessee and picturing these people around the world like, doing their thing over there, you know? It's like the world just keeps turning and, yeah. And you're all right with the slow burn. And I am all right with the slow burn. And God, I love that song. That's how that album, everything you do is just brilliant. Well, Casey, what did we learn today? Oh, don't homework. Don't homework. That was one. What did you learn? Anxious attachment. I learned about the attachment styles. I learned about UFOs. About UFOs? I learned that a podcast can be extremely comfortable and really fun. That's what you learn. You can ask my team, I don't really do a lot of podcasts. And you had fun doing this? I'm not leaving. I really don't want you to go. I told you we're having a sleepover. I'm so glad that that was your takeaway. I feel-- I, my takeaway was meet your heroes. Because they were going to tell you exactly what you thought of the-- exactly how I envisioned how you envision your work is what-- Oh. --is how you see it. Well, that makes me feel good. Because it makes me feel like my vision was received, you know? Yeah. And that-- I'll fucking love that. I think you were put on this earth to write and sing songs. And I'm so grateful I got to talk to you about it. Guys. I really-- I like really am. Like I think like you are just-- I could talk about how brilliant you are for hours on end. I mean, are you all hearing this? He said it. He said all of it. And I think your new album middle of nowhere is so, so, so incredible. That makes me feel good. Because I was like nervous. That's been nervous. I'm like, is this boring? No, it's not boring. But that goes back to the quote that I read you at the beginning, which is that you make the things in life. I think the most beautiful art is when you make something so unexroordinary, extraordinary. And that is what you do with your music. Thank you. You do such a wonderful, incredible job of doing it. Thank you so much. I feel so uplifted right now. Like no one can crash this high. No, and as they shouldn't because-- I'm going to be coasting on this for weeks. I'm so glad. No, we're really thinking. You deserve it. Thank you. Your music does that for a lot of people. It's timeless. At the end of the day, it's timeless music. I love that compliment. It really is. Thank you. Because I mean, the hope is that something that was really important to you lasts and still either matters or feels really good in 10, 20, year, or however long. Like, it's really trippy to think that the things that you create are going to outlive you. And that creepy. Yeah, that is creepy. Do you think about that often? Sometimes I'm kind of like, that's so weird. When I'm dead and gone, there's going to be a little trace of me out there. - No, weird. - But it's so timeless and that's why it will be there. - Well, thank you. - And stream middle of nowhere, out May 1st. - Like and subscribe. - I didn't see it all. - Bye. Thank you. - Love you, Casey. Thank you. (upbeat music) [BLANK_AUDIO]