Session 115: Dan Levy

(upbeat music) - Okay, Alice is here. - Hey everyone. - Alice and I just got back from Japan together. - We did, I don't think we're fully recovered yet. - In what sense do you mean? - You know, we like didn't really do it right. - At all. - No, and like I kept telling you and you didn't believe me, and now I'm just like having like some post trip depression about it. - Like what do you wish we did? - I think we could have done a lot more planning. - What was your favorite memory of me on the trip and your least favorite, like the most angry you were with me? (laughing) - Okay, we're in Kyoto. - Uh huh. - It was my like, down day. Like I didn't want to do anything. I need to be left alone. What were you doing and why did you fart on my face? (laughing) - And it was just CG had to break us up. (laughing) - You started crying. - No, I actually had to take a minute. It was, do you remember that? - Yeah, I just remember. - Oh, and should we talk about the TikTok? - What TikTok? - In Kyoto, there's none of it. - Oh yeah, what I tried to make my TikTok. - That was just horrible. - I tried to make the Phoebe Bridgers day off in Kyoto, and I kept trying to get a shot of what was it. I was trying to get your shot, and I-- But then it was Ali shot, and then it was back to me, and I kept being like, just, I don't want to be in it. I just don't. - And then we had to separate again. - And then CG was like really just handling the entire thing. She was like our group trip leader, and then also like, just trying to keep the peace between all of us, but she was on my side. - She did demand quiet time when we were skiing, and I got back to the room. - Yeah, that was bad. So that was definitely the worst day, 'cause that, but why did you fart in my face? - For fun. - But it wasn't something like, we don't have that type of relationship. That's why it was so fun. - Yeah, I think I was just like manic, to be honest, I had just come from Toronto, and then we were in Tokyo, and then we were in Kyoto, and like-- - Like it was true for the sister, like annoying. That's when you first got there, and like, you know, like you were really excited to see each other. - Yeah, we were like, we were bouncing up and down. And then the next day, like Jake was set on getting a Birken. - No, I was not set on getting a Birken. We were set on getting a Alice of Birken. Instead, do you want to know what Alice did? She spent, you'll never believe how many hours. Four hours in a mouji. (laughing) She spent four hours in a mouji. She showed up to dinner with two suitcases, full of stuff from Mouji. And I didn't really know about Mouji, but then I was in Boston, and I passed a mouji. And I was like, why did she care to go to Mouji in Japan? For four hours, she kept texting me hour two still here. - Just wooden spoons. - That's all you bought? - Yeah, so many wooden spoons. - Have you used them? Where are they? - No, you know, I've taken them out of the suitcase, but they're still, you know, like they feel too good to use. - From Mouji? - So when you got your Birken, that was a really big highlight, because like we could all just like breathe. Like it happened, like he made it into a mission. - But no, it wasn't my mission. It was not-- - But then it was a super, super high high, and then like just it was tears from that. - No, that's not true. I was actually, I was looking for you. - Uh-huh, and you just stumbled on the perfect. - It was, what was I supposed to do? And then I ran and where were you? You were at a craft store. And then you read with the photo, face down. - No. (laughing) - In the corner. - I was too afraid to put anything in the bag. (laughing) The Birken was face down on the floor for two days straight. And I was like, you have to put stuff in it. And then we got on the train for, okay, I would actually say the low of my trip. Was that the fight, was that one Ali and I fought? (laughing) - Yeah, that was bad. What did I keep saying to you guys? - You're being children! - I said, why are you embarrassed? (laughing) - You're embarrassing yourself. Ali goes, how can I embarrass myself in front of you guys? I was like, you're embarrassing! - Are we in bed? You know, I would like to bring up this time. Alison, I have a real problem. - Please, go ahead. - We, as some might describe it, actually those closest to us would describe us as such, are miserable people. - Miserable. The most unhappy it gets. And like, when's the last time you felt joy? - We aren't sleeping, doesn't count. (laughing) 'Cause I know you were about to say when you got back from breakfast, did I and went back to bed? - You don't get it. We aren't happy unless we are upset. - Together. - Yes. Like, we can be again. Like, we had been planning this Japan trip for months. So excited. - Here's the thing about Alison. We'll go to a new place for the first four hours of that new place. We'll say, we've been waiting our whole lives for this. Like, this is where we're meant to be. This is why we were so unhappy before four hours later. We got, Alison starts threatening to book flight to home. When we were away this summer, I'd wake up every day and ask what's on me, a screenshot of a flight that she had put on hold for the following day. And would just say, I'm leaving. - I'm leaving period. - And every day, it was a toss up, whether she would walk down to breakfast or not. - It was like those long, long stairs. It was like, would I make it? - Sunglasses on and her flip-flops. She'd walk her tote and she'd walk in and sit down and we would just be finishing and then-- - And then the meal would start again. - And the meal would start again. - You know, like, misery. - Misery. - We aren't happy unless we're upset. - But you know what our plan is. - What is it? Kid, kiss on the cheek. Houses that connect underground. And that's it. - But what's, what's gonna be our matching? - We have matching Berkins walking down the aisle. What else was on our list? Tokyo, misery, Coachella predictions. You know, you actually know you came on this show and we gave Coachella predictions before. So you're coming on Saturday. - You're naive about our Coachella predictions. - Are you coming Friday or are you coming Saturday? - If I can get out of my work situation, I will be coming on Friday. No, I'll be coming on Thursday. - If not, I will be there like Saturday evening. - Okay, so if you're there Saturday evening, like you're missing Katzai. - No, I need to be there. - Who's your bias? - Yunjae. - Really? Mine is Lara. You know, this intro is actually for Dan Levy. For Shits Creek, I'm surprised you've seen that show. You actually rarely watch or consume television. - That was one of the only shows I watched. - I don't watch TV shows. I can't concentrate and I would rather be on my phone. - Okay, but you want to know a random show that Alice did watch? - Oh my god, I was up to help with this movie. I watched the other day. - Do a movie. - With Rachel McAdams. And is it Dylan O'Brien? - Send help, yeah. - Yes, have you seen that? - No. - Hey, we need to watch it. It is hysterical. - Wait, really? - It's Lara movie. - But is it funny? - Like, what did you think? - I actually really liked it. - No, that made me think of myself with that. - Yeah, it's great. Dylan O'Brien screened that. - Did you see it in theaters? You went to a movie theater? - No, no, it was on Apple TV. - Okay, it was about to say. - That would have been a really big deal. Okay, Coachella predictions. - Coachella predictions. I predict that you're going to come Friday or Thursday night. - I thought we were going to talk about what's going to be the most tears. What are you going to hate? - Oh, my three. - When do you think you're going to leave? How soon do you think you're going to get to the festival? Like, I want to-- - Okay, I think. - Who's going to be the-- - Friday is going to be my day. Friday is going to be my day. It's Katzai, Calvin Harris, Disclosure, like-- - Sabrina. - Sabrina, like it's going to be, like Friday is going to be one of the best days ever. Saturday, it's Bieber. So it's obviously going to be amazing. - You're also on Saturday. - The strokes, who I need to see. - Yeah, that's your bet. You've been doing this. You're like 17. - You don't think I really like the strokes? - Of course you don't. - Alice, you don't think so. - Come on, like it's you. - What do you mean? - Like, okay, yeah, like your body of air. (laughing) - You know I like Bonnie Bear. - So you think Friday's going to be your best day? - Saturday will be amazing. After Saturday though, I'm tapped. - No, it's done. - Okay, so what? If you had to describe, if we had to describe each other in one, like, like what is like our weirdest thing that we have, like I, like that you have to say, like you know when you're sitting, you're like, oh, he hates cold food. - Oh, this is your, you have to, you have to guess. - My favorite thing that we do, though, is when we, like, hmm, or, (laughing) we stop speaking in Japan and we only start speaking in inside jokes. I love you so much. (barking) Oh, we can't tell them about our syncups. That's for just for us. - 'Cause it will drink set. - Well, every time we sync up. - Something goes bad. - No, it's not bad, it's, you know what it is? You're upset, I'm happy, I'm upset, you're happy, but world is at peace when we are both upset about the same thing. - Alice and I are both upset about the same thing. - It's electric. - 80, it's like, (barking) and we go back and forth for like two hours, like no one is safe. - No, no. - Like, we go there, like. - It's, we go to the dark place, which is our happy place, maybe. - I think so too. But Alice has watched Shit's Creek. It's one of the two shows she's seen. - I'm obsessed, it's so good. - Well, after we finish reading the Academy, I'm watching it, so we'll watch it. - Okay, period. Tonight we have on Dan Levy and Alice has made her second intro appearance. Oh, yeah. Oh wait, wait Alice really needs PR to all the companies All the companies watching to all the companies watching like just make your plea listen like my DMs are off Now they're open. Please. I will take anything Please send Alice PR show post it. She really wants it. I don't really know how to post things So that's it. Okay. I love to yap. I'll tell everyone all about it. Uh-huh. All right, Pussies. Enjoy the episode. Alice. I love you. I love you say bye Pussies Hi, Pussies. Welcome back to Thera Puss. Tonight we have on the man the myth the legend Dan Levy whose new show Big Mistakes is out on Netflix April 9th. I'm so happy to be here. I'm so happy to have you here It's so cozy in here. Do you feel do you feel as though it you're comfortable? Yeah I feel completely comfortable. Okay. Cool. Yeah. How are you? I'm so good My sister says to say that she embarrassed herself in front of you I want to say a couple years ago and she came up to you and said she thought you were really funny And then she kind of walked away. Wait, why is that embarrassing? I think she was in like she didn't even think about what she was doing at the time I think she just like grabbed you and complimented which ultimately is not a bad. That's not a bad thing But I think I left feeling like did I need to do that good? I don't mind good Well, I want to hear about things. I'm just so happy to talk about it. It's amazing. There was this one not to spoil Well, it's not a spoiler, but you were in bed with your boyfriend. Yeah, and You had this line that I just thought was so moving where you said God is perfect But the people that interpret him are not Yeah, I thought that was really beautiful. Thanks. You know like When you're in a comedy and you're trying and you're playing a pastor, right? The last thing I wanted was to make Religion the butt of the joke. I think it's easy. I think it's lazy and I really wanted his relationship to Faith and to God to be real, right? So we worked with a gay pastor to authenticate The scenes that we were writing in the church and make sure that like at no point was Christianity ever going to be the butt of the joke right and it wasn't no it never was it never was I thought I was so moved by it I was in I watched it We were we were we're on a road trip from Boston to New York and I watched it and I stopped everyone in the car And I wouldn't shut up about it for like an hour. I thought it was so Thank well, but it's so nice to like have people watch something that you've just been like working on for a year and No one really like none of my friends and my family like knew what I was doing They know you well you like squirrel away. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, and I don't really like talking about work that much So when I'm with my friends, we're not talking about I'm not like right. I wrote a great line Do you want me to read it for you? Yeah, that's not what it is. So it's nice now to like have the show be on its way out or I don't know like when it might be out. Okay And have people see it. Yeah, that's like the greatest thing and like what you made Yeah, sometimes you don't like what you made and you have to talk to people about it and Find creative ways to like that happen you before I think I've been lucky in the sense that it sort of hasn't right But friends of mine have had to go on like full press tours and just be like Mm-hmm. Yeah, and this is yep learned a lot and we're having a great time right right. Yeah How did you and Rachel send it me we met on the idol? Oh? My god We were shooting a lot of Scenes for the idol that I thought like whoa is this gonna be like a good really dark come back right because it had the potential There was like it had the potential to be incredibly satirical but I didn't know like so they're you're shooting so much and it's a lot of it's improvised and you have no idea really what what what the tone of the show is So there were scenes that were really funny Rachel was hysterically funny So when I was like coming up with this show I it's a brother-sister situation. I don't like writing Especially knowing that this was gonna be like brother-sister Through the whole show. I really wanted like a female voice to speak to the reality of the lived experience of this character I didn't think that it was you know appropriate if I just like Created this woman and didn't have the nuance that it would take for a female perspective to kind of Lend itself to this this woman and so I went to Rachel with the like little idea and said would you Create this with me and she said yes And we kind of worked over zoom for a long time and then wrote the pilot and then sold the show Well, it's unbelievable. She's so great and did you I could hear Rachel in In Taylor's like when Taylor speaks. I can hear Rachel I think that was the fun thing about finding Taylor was we had to find someone who was going to kind of walk into this part and Not just be doing Rachel right, you know and like as soon as Taylor Put herself on tape. It was clear that her interpretation of the character was going to be something different Are you guys planning on continuing it for another season because I hope so because I my plan is many seasons for the show I have a big I know how the entire season I know how the entire series ends really yeah, I have the final image of the show Many many seasons down the line. I know exactly the image. I want to end on it's kind of like sopranos for gay people. That's right That's exactly that's the highest compliment. I've gotten so far right that is the can we sum up? Someone needs to take that and clip it clip it clip it Yeah, that's what I felt that's like that filled me with so much joy. I can't even tell you that's what I that's like if you had to elevate her Pitch it. It's sopranos for gay people. That's right. Yes. You live outside of the city. Yeah, you're an organized crime That's it. You're completely incapable of handling any kind of criminal pressure at all right, but I think I think your character gets better at it throughout Well, that's the goal. Yeah, yeah, the idea would be that these people didn't know that this crime would actually Help them right. That's the end goal. I think is that like if it never crossed their path Maybe they wouldn't have found parts of themselves that they well. Yes. Well Taylor's care Well, yeah, I'm gonna stop spoiling. It's fantastic. It's fantastic. It's really fantastic. I watched it in one day Thank the whole thing. Yes, the whole show. Yeah. Yes. I did that's the craziest part though to me 13 months making a show gone in four and a half hours. Yeah, I watched the whole thing in one day. Oh Well, I couldn't stop. I was very invested. You're like I think one of the only people I know who has watched the whole show Well, it's not out yet. Well, I know they haven't got it yet Yeah, but it's so nice to hear that you watched it. Yeah, well, it's lovely speaking of I was like, do I tell them this? Do I not tell him this you obviously what is it tell me now? I am on my first ever watch of shits Creek great I know that you were because I was so ashamed to that I hadn't seen it Yeah, but you know what I sometimes feel like When things are things I always so intimidated. Well, it's intimidation But I also have this like relationship to like big cultural moments where I'm like I'm sure I'm gonna go there. I don't need to be involved in this conversation right now Let the dust settle then I'll jump in when I have a relationship to it right I think that's how we have to watch things. Yeah, we can't be pressured into watching things That's how I feel about like survivor as well or like other shit like so where are you in shits now? I'm literally you are. Oh, you are. It's so it's just keeps getting better from the Amish farm. That's right. We just picked you up from the Amish farm It's so good. Oh, thanks. It's so good. It's it's just it was a joy to make and I I find that like now I get fed Clips and things now always stop and watch it like it's so Sweet did you pitch it to your dad or did your dad. Yes, okay. I had the idea. I had worked for a long time on the hills Shut up. Yeah, like BTS. No front of camera hosting the after show for the hills No, yeah, yeah, yeah, and what was that like it was standing on a on a Platform on the pool of the Roosevelt Hotel Saying welcome to the after show. This is the series finale of the hills every season finale we would host So we were involved in that we became like very involved in this in like the show so I got to see a Kind of like perspective on reality television the lives of like wealthy young people So when I left like hosting TV, I was really preoccupied with this idea of Showing what would happen to these Families that we've come to like no in love who are like really well to do what would happen if it all went away What would the behind the scenes look like right? So that's where the idea for shits came from was like living and breathing in reality TV for eight years of my life and We started with Laguna Beach. We did the whole thing. You did Laguna as well. Well, I Am shocked. They didn't ask me to come and host the reunion for Laguna. Yeah, would you have done it? 100% I thought you weren't like I thought you didn't enjoy doing it. Yeah, but I still have love for like what got me here Thousand you know what I mean? Yeah Like, every day that I was hosting television, I knew that this was not in my bones, what I was meant to do. We still had a good time. - Right. - It's still like who I am. But I saw that reunion and I was like, interesting. (laughing) No one thought to give me a call. - What it definitely would've thought more eyeballs had you. - I don't know, I mean, is it even out? I don't know anyway. - I think so. - Oh, okay. (laughing) I was never a Laguna kid, I was a Hills kid. - Okay. - I was a Hills kid, I really liked the Hills, and I'll never forget the series finale when they pull back the green screen. 'Cause why? - Honestly, in my opinion, wrapped up the whole show. 'Cause even working on the like the after show, part of the struggle that we had was, the Hills cast was up to their antics in the press. - Yes they were. - Like us weekly was reporting. - Yes they were. - Me, we could only speak about the relationships that were on the show, which happened months prior 'cause they would shoot way in advance. - Yes. - So we were in conflict with some of the MTV creatives because we had to adhere to the narratives that were going on in the show. - And you couldn't talk about the press. - The press, it was all people could talk about, but no, you couldn't talk about it. - Wow. - Yeah. - Do you have a favorite moment from the Hills? - What does she say? It's a Lauren Conrad line. - Oh I've, I forget you. - Screaming and hiding. - But I want to forget you. - The black mascara tear streaming down the face. I mean it was, it was cinematic. - It was cinematic. That and when forget who's wedding they're at, but it's Lauren's last season and Kristen pulls up to the wedding. - That's right. - And Lauren gets up. Oh my God, like that show was cinematic. - Kristen Cavalieri is a star. - A star. - She knew exactly what she was doing. She played the game perfectly. She was also like really fun to work with 'cause she understood why she was there. - Right. - Do you know what I mean? Like when you're doing that world, you gotta understand what the game you're playing. And she would always come and do our show and was so like gave us everything we wanted. Because she knew she was there to stir the pot. - She like, she knew how to play reality. - Miles ahead, she knew exactly what was going on. She's doing what the housewives are doing now. - That's right. - Do you watch housewives? - Yes. - What's your favorite? - Salt Lake City, of course. - But I've been watching Beverly Hills. - You have? - I love Rachel Zo. - I know, I love Rachel Zo. - Rachel Zo project was should have been drowning in Emmys. - Yeah, what was it when they, wasn't there like a flood and it was like Oscar, weaker, something and all the clothes got wet? - Yeah, I mean there was always a problem. - There was always always a problem. And somehow she pulled it off. - So this season of Beverly Hills is good, you're saying. - Is it as good as like, - Rina? - No, right. - It'll never be as good as Rina. - Ever, or like, what's my favorite? When Erica Jane, I forget there are some other place and she's these fucking bangs. - Oh yeah, yeah. - And she's waiting for the to cross the street. - Yeah. - And she goes, do you remember that? Do you remember that? - Erica Jane is one of the great cast members. One of the great, her, Rina, I mean, really? I'm truly, I think, early Beverly Hills with the Richard Sisters are just. - Well, it's perfect television. - That's real. - The Rina line delivery with Denise Richards, with the like, ooh, you are so angry. - Oh my God, I just got to my toes are curling. Like, she's so good. - She should be Egot. - Egot. - Just from that. - Rina's line deliveries were so extraordinary. I would like lift out of my body. - When Ken gave the buddy back and she goes, thank you. - Yeah. - Unbelievable. - The whole, anyway, I love Lisa Rina. - I love all, there's always, the Lisa's on the house. - Lisa Rina is the Kristin Cavalieri of Beverly Hills housewives. - What a great comp. I was biblical what you just said. - Thank you. I was biblical. - And knew when to get out. - She got out of the perfect time. Now give me your thoughts on Salt Lake. - I just don't understand. I think because my life is so boring, I look at these reality shows and I'm like, how could, I mean, these are real, like, and have you seen the cast interact in person ever? - No. - I've never seen them in person. - They fight. - Ah. (laughing) - Yeah. But Lisa Barlow is like, that's my girl. Yeah, I know. - Lisa Barlow. - Yeah, that's my girl. - She's very believable voice. - She's very important to God. Like, very, very. - And you can't, I mean, the casting, how do they find these people? Like, what, I think they go, I think Andy is now going to these, like, he's not doing the big cities anymore. He's going to like more niche areas. - Yeah. - 'Cause they're doing Rhode Island, which is apparently fantastic. - I'm sure. - And I'm sat and I'm ready. - Well, Potomac Salt Lake City, like you're getting into niche markets. - Do you watch traders? - I watch the celebrity UK celebrity traders. - How is that? - Lovely. - Okay. - Really, really fun. And I've been meaning, anyway, this is a whole conversation about how I don't know how to download the Peacock app, anyway. - You don't? - Well, I sort of, it's like, you need to, I think I did and then there's a password and I have never figured out that I don't want to reset a password. - I mean, that's how, by the way. - I just want to buy it. - Yeah, you open the gates of hell and you have to log into a streaming service on your television. - Nope. - Well, don't do it. - But you know, who makes it real easy? - Netflix. (laughing) - It actually says the easiest one. - It is the easiest one. - No, I rarely do I ever have to reset. - No, never. - I even think I know my Netflix password. - You don't, because you don't need to. - That's right. - Because they make it easy. - That's right. - They make it easy. - Easily accessible. - Easily. - Click, click, click. - Click, scan the code. - Click, click, press play. - Press play. - Yeah. - You're watching right now, besides Beverly Hills. - Besides Beverly Hills? - Yeah. - Just like in general. - Love story. - Me too. It's amazing. - No, it's like, it's, I think what's brilliant about love story is they captured a time that people are so nostalgic for. I think it's why everyone's starting to dress like Carolyn Busset, Kennedy again. And JFK. - Do you remember that in real time? - No. - Okay. I remember the impact of that, like, cultural moment. I was too young. - Yeah. (laughing) - But yeah, it's major. And I love seeing like a Calvin Klein store from the 90s. I wanna buy all those clothes. - I've been wearing Calvin Klein because of it lately. - I was shopping vintage Calvin Klein in Japan a week ago. - 90s Calvin. - I'm so jealous of the way you did Japan. - You were just there, though. - I was just there. I did. We did Tokyo Kyoto and DeSekko. - Oh, okay. You skied. - I skied one day and then I was in too much pain. - That's right, I'm done. - Okay. - I'm done. But Tokyo, I think, might be my favorite place in the entire world. - It is my favorite place on the planet. I go every year to like reset my brain. - Do you go alone? - No, I go with friends. - Always. - And do you, what like-- - And often the same friends. And I think it's one of those experiences where like, did you go by yourself? - No, I went with my friends. - Yeah, it's great. And it's, it feels like you're having like, such a rare experience with your friends. Like, you go there, everyone's now going to Japan. But even still, you go and feel like nobody's experiencing the joy that we're experiencing. - It's just the way of life there. I feel like-- - The streets are clean? - The streets are clean. - I will say this, the impact of the girls scene when Shoshana lands at the American airport after living in Japan. - And she's different. - And she is looking around like, what kind of hot and trash mess is this situation? Nothing has encapsulated the sadness of returning from Japan more than that scene. - And you know, they have one of my favorite needle drops of all time in that scene. It's, God, what is it? It's past lives by Borns. - That's right. - It's so good. And you have a great needle drop in Big Mistakes who have a Robin song. - Oh yeah, we have a couple great needle drops that if you know, you know, also the Slaybells needle drop in episode two. - It's phenomenal. - That's, I mean, that's the fun thing. For me, it's all about playlists. I put playlists together when I'm writing. I put playlists together. - You really? - Oh yeah. - Who were you listening to when you were writing a show? - Peaches. - Peaches. - And then asked her to score the show. And she said yes. (upbeat music) - Thank you, C. Keek for sponsoring tonight's episode and what a perfect time. Because festival season has officially begun. I am making my way to the desert for Coachella. Yet again, and it really reminds me of how special festival season is because there really is no festivals bring this sense of like so many different genres of music together and to be able to be there and to see that and to see multiple artists you love in one day. I think is so, so unique and special. We have many, many artists we love on the festival circuit. We have Tate McRae, headlining Lala Paloza. We have Adela at Lala Paloza, Sabrina at Coachella. Charlie XX is back on the festival circuit. Olivia Dean, like there's so many people to see. And more so, there's so many people you might not know that you can fall in love with. My favorite experience ever, like I think is one most like highs you can feel is falling in love with an artist as they're performing their live show. That happened to me with Blue Tiger. Seekyke makes it easy to get tickets to these festivals because you can use Code Therapus for 10% off. Not only that if you click the link in the description it will download the app and automatically add the Code Therapus for 10% off. In addition there are so many people going on tour Adela and Demi Lovato are going on tour together. Ariana is going on tour and Seekyke makes it easy to make sure you're getting a good deal because when you go to get a ticket it's rated on a scale from 1 to 10, 1 being not the best, 10 being the best, so you can tell if the money you are spending is worth the seat. You can get tickets today on the site or in the app. Use Code Therapus for 10% off. Thank you Seekyke for sponsoring tonight's episode and I hope everybody who wants to or maybe hasn't been yet has a beautiful festival season and you can do that using Seekyke. I couldn't be more excited for people to watch the show because the the score that her and Nora put together is so like singular and great and cool and nothing I could have ever thought about. It's just it really makes the show for me it made the show so much cooler her score. Well yeah I'm not a cool person. I think it why I'm not fishing for compliments. Well I think you're pretty cool. Thanks but not like that. I could never do what she does and I think part of the great thing about making things is that you get access to people who are like cooler than you. Right. And you bring these people together and you hope that the combination of all of these different perspectives will make something special and in this case it really did. Did you feel that way about Shits Creek because Shits Creek didn't really take off until season 3 right. I don't think it really took off until we had finished season 6. You think so. Yeah. Oh wow. I remember writing and writing the final episode of Shits Creek just as I was sensing culture was like into it. It's very rare that that can happen these days we had no interference because people don't people cancel shows after one season now. Oh they have just put them canceled after three episodes. I think so. Yeah. I think it was so strange. Like the choices were really strange. It wasn't a fast paced show. It's a you have to kind of sit back and like get into it. And also so much of the show is foundation laying. So like that first season is ultimately setting up like who these people were in order for us to earn who they become. And we're now so obsessed with like if it doesn't hit in the first 48 hours like right. Burn and hell. Right. You I felt so grateful to like be able to tell a story because part of it part of why I think people love Shits Creek is you earn the emotional turns. Yes. Yes. Never a point where we're asking an audience member to like care where we haven't earned that emotional turn. Right. And you got to lay the foundation for that. Yeah. You can't expect an audience to cry for a character when they just met them. That comes with time. But time is the hardest thing to find now in entertainment. How did you feel as though you got lucky enough to have those seasons before it took off. Well we were just lucky in the sense that we had a networking Canada that really needed us. And we had a teeny tiny teeny teeny tiny network in a America that needed us. What network wasn't an American. It was called pop TV. That's what Shits Creek. It was the former TV guide network. I remember TV guide. That's right. It was like a it was a standard definition like like grid of what television was on TV. It wasn't by the time it flipped over to pop and we were on TV. We were in standard definition in most homes. When like standard definition when people said we were in yeah your TV was HD. We were like it was like watching an episode of Sex in the city. Right. We just found a spot that like we found places that wanted us. And that's how we were able to stay on the air. I think if we were on an actual network, we would have been canceled immediately. It's so crazy to hear that because when I think of a show like that that takes time to grow, I also think of like breaking bad. Breaking bad didn't take off until season three. Season three, season four. And it's like if only we gave that same grace to all these new shows coming out. I think you have to believe in people. That to me is like we've lost that relationship between creators and the space to try things because it's such an immediate like if it doesn't hit instantly, it's done. But think about how many, think about the potential of how many shows or you know, I don't know that just didn't get the chance because God forbid their first season be still trying to figure out what it is. Like the wilds have you ever seen the wilds? No, Sarah pigeon. Oh, yes. And it's it's I think it was only on for two seasons. And that third season. Because the first season was the girls were stranded on the silence. The second season where these boys were stranded on the silent. And the third season was going to merge everyone. They got canceled before they could do it. I know. I think industry is the same way. I mean talk about my season four of industry. I'm not caught up yet. Is it amazing? What? No, I'm not caught. Wait, are they on season five right now or four? No, four. Yeah, I'm not caught up. You haven't seen the last season of industry. I'm not. I'm waiting to bring shame into this room. No, well, you it's here already. I don't want to bring it in. I don't want you to feel it. Is it that good? Because I watched seasons one three and she's seen it twice. Last season. Sust with industry. Episode two of the last season. Oh, I've heard. I've heard. I've heard. I've heard. Is one of the most it's it's masterful episodes of TV. I think I've ever seen you think at me time. If it's not at me time. Yeah, I will be out there with a sign boycotting justice for industry. The cat also you're dealing with like a young cast of actors that are in their like just crushing. Yeah. It's fucking electric. It's also like it's the hottest TV on TV. I know. It's so hot. I'm like, wow, I want to hook up with people and like do drugs and they can't Harrington. Are you out of your mind? It doesn't he turn like slightly a little bit. Yeah, they like. Yeah, they go their ish. That's going to say not enough for me. But yeah, that's going to send me into psychosis. It really I was alone when I watched it. I was that I was like what couldn't be with anyone when I watched that episode. That's like when I watched he did rivalry and like I remember life pre-heeded rivalry and like post and my friend my best friend whose guy called me and said because he was you know those two weeks in winter where it's like December. It's like between New years and Christmas and like it's just a very like. Yeah, yeah, no man's land. No man's land. He said Jake just like maybe I would if you could watch he did rivalry after New years. I really think for you like you would stay you would need that like just like no you can't be you can't watch this and then be alone. I see and I and I did and he was more concerned about the aftermath of my mental health and Louise calls it the great crash out of 2026. It was everyone's great crash out. It was it was I think I was put into genuine psychosis. Okay. It's fun. It's definitely fun to play with that. Yeah. I had a really good time with the like romance and shits. We had some like I heard about to find out. I know I'm so excited. We had a great time. Yeah. Yeah. Would you did you guys do a lot of improv in that show? No. In shits great. You didn't do a lot of improv. We would improvise like maybe the way into a scene or the way out but we would never like the scenes were written. Do you did what was a scene that you remember that like Catherine like made you break break. It was the very first episode that we were shooting. And I think at one point she's she's she's lost a tennis bracelet. Yes. And she's screaming around the motel room looking for a tennis bracelet. And again, we didn't know when Annie and I walked into that room. We didn't know what she would do. So we walked into the room. And at one point she starts screaming and she opens a drawer trying to look for this tennis bracelet. And I guess there had happened to be a light bulb from like a crew member that was switching a light bulb out. So it just like it wasn't a planted prop. It was just something she found. And she pulled out this light bulb and started screaming at the light bulb. And if you go back and watch that episode, you can see that I'm doing like what's that Bill Hader character on SNL where he's just like constantly. Which one? Stefan. Stefan. I'm Stefanying through that entire scene just because I couldn't. And then it got to a point where it's like I think it's funny that characters find other characters in TV funny. Right. So I started just leaning into the fact that like if I find this funny, then maybe David found this funny. And maybe the audience gets to like have a bit of a is it the actor or is it the character. But I think it's like we laugh at our friends. Yeah. So much of comedy. You notice that the characters themselves don't think that the other person is what what they're doing is funny. So there was this added layer for all of us where I just started saying to people like, if you think it's, if you're gonna laugh, laugh. - Right, just laugh my face. - Your character will find it funny. - Wow, I think that's what really has helped make the show so unique because that actually is something I picked up on and that's why when you said, you don't break, I'm like, 'cause I feel like sometimes when I'm watching shit. - No, it's a cheat. - If you, yeah, if breaking is part of your character, then you don't break. - My favorite thing. - I also just totally lied to your face when I said I don't break that often. - I know you did. - It was a lie. - I know you did. - And we're getting around to the fact that I just lied and I'm reconciling that. - No, it's okay. My thing with line is if you say you lied, then it's not a lie anymore. - Well, I also think it's like sometimes you say something you believe were the case and it's a lie. - Oh, you're speaking like a true liar. - Yeah, you're speaking like a true liar. - Yeah, well, I just lied. - Yeah, and that's okay. - And that's okay. - I feel accepted. - But that's why I told you I was on my first watch of shits, I called Louise and I said Louise, I'm so anxious that I have not seen the show in full. And she's like, I think you should just tell him that you're on your first watch of it. So that's me doing this right now. - 100%, but I also don't, I know you don't care. - Yeah, but they will. - Will they? - I don't know. - Oh, yes. People ride for that show like that show has got, like when I bring up Shits Creek to people, they are like that show has gotten me through. The hardest times of my entire life like, I've never seen such passion around a show before. - I think it was, I mean, it came to life in the pandemic. And it's about a family that's forced into living in small close quarters with each other and essentially into a kind of quarantine. So I think there was a combination of like the show dropping at a point when people themselves could see bits of their own relationships in it. - Right. - I think that the circumstance as unfortunate as it was helped a layer of connection exist that might not have been there had the show been out when there wasn't a global plague. - The pandemic, it's so weird thinking about the pandemic 'cause in parts I'm like, it's weird to say, I'm grateful for it, but in like a weird way, I kind of-- - Oh, there were days where I was like, this is heaven. - I mean, it wasn't, obviously. - Right, it was, but as an introvert, who likes to spend a lot of time at home, you're an introvert? - Oh yeah. - Wow, I did not very bad about you. - I did not very bad about you. - Okay, I had, I've never in my life had real social anxiety and the other night I went out. - What does that feel like? - I felt like I was walking into a room. - Oh, this is the other night when you did experience social anxiety? - Yes. - I was wondering what it feels like to not. - You're just kind of like. - Like if someone said-- - You just don't-- - I met a party. - Yeah. - And you didn't know anyone at this party. You wouldn't think twice about like, when I arrive at this party, I need to instantly know where those people are so that I don't have to like, what if people look at me walking into this party and be like, who is this person, why are they here? - So those thoughts-- - That's what goes on in my mind. - So those thoughts exist for everyone, but for people without really intense social anxiety, I think the thought is more passing than like, concrete. So like, I have that thought, but then I just do it. - Got it. - As opposed to the other night, I was looking around and I was like, I need to get the fuck out of here. (upbeat music) - Anyway, it was a party. - Right, and I walked into the room and I was fine for most of the night and then all of a sudden everyone was dancing and I was looking at each group of people dancing and I was like-- - How many people were there, set the scene? - Like a hundred and I couldn't be like, yeah, I couldn't be like, I don't, like which group do I dance with? And I was too conscious of my own being that I was like, you know what, this is the first time I'm really experiencing the social anxiety that people speak of. I have to go home. - I also give you credit for having more than one group that you could dance with. - No, but I couldn't. I don't think. I mean, I could have. I could have walked up and been like, hey, it's me. - I feel like you of all people can do that. - Well, yes, because I'm sure I'm not assuming. - No, I think you're incredibly charming and people want to be around you. - Wow, thank you so much. - Well, you know that. - I really don't sometimes. - Okay, sometimes. - I really, no, I really, I really do, I really feel very annoying sometimes. Did you ever felt that way in your life? - I feel annoying every single day. - I really feel, well, and then it's hard when people online are like, no, you are annoying. - Yeah, yeah, yeah, 100%. You'll read one comment. You'll see people like saying the nicest things and then one comment that speaks to a thought you've actually had and you're like, that's it. That person with an anonymous, bought into. - They got me. They got me. - They know exactly who I am. - It's that scene in girls where Lena Dunham says, everything you could have possibly, you could possibly say to me, I've said to myself already in the last 10 minutes. - That's right. - And that's, that's, but I really felt that the other week. Like I was reading stuff and I was like, oh, I feel that way. - I also think that the press cycle at this point is such a tornado that if something works, like for shits, we were, I mean, you know, you get into the kind of cycle of people wanting to talk to you because your show's a hit. And then the more you talk, the more you speak, and then the more you speak, the more you're aware of yourself speaking. And then by the end of it, I was so kind of embarrassed of the level of exposure that I had, that it's almost permanently scarred my relationship to like myself in a way. A lot of the therapy that I'm doing is like, no, you're not embarrassing. - Was there a moment that really stuck with you? - No, it's not a moment, but it, you can see it happen. Like someone goes from like making something that's cool that catches on. Then there's the like photo shoot cycle. Where suddenly it's like a million photo shoots and now we're whatever. Then you go through like a cycle of talking about your work. And when you talk about your work and people pedestalize your work, then you start to talk about the like how profound your work is, which you've never thought about before. Then you start to talk about, okay, well, you like, I guess I am doing something important. And then when the dust settles of all of it, you're like, what a clown. - Really? - For me, at least, yeah. I think I walked away from when the Emmys happened and we want, I mean, I said it in my Emmys speech, which breaks my heart. - What'd you say? - I actually said when I won my last Emmy of the night, can't believe that's a sentence. - That was awesome. - I think I said, I apologized for just being, because I was so aware that this was the moment when people were going to say, okay, they have too much. - Wow. - And I was aware of it in real time. And it's one of the big heart breaks was the fact that culture or the way that we respond to people's success can sometimes be vicious after a certain point. It's like you see it with people. It's like, we lift them up. We lift them up. We lift them up. And then at some point, there's a tipping point where the media decides, okay, they've had enough. - Why do you think that is? - Because you can't, the balloon can't stay afloat forever. It's just how this works. And I think I remember in that moment feeling insecure. And then I heard a conversation that was happening publicly, there was a podcast that happened where someone was saying, like, that I didn't deserve all that I got. And I thought, again, it's that moment of like, oh, someone sees me. - Yes. - Yeah. - And it took me a long time to realize I did deserve what I got. And also, I was hearing this from another gay person. And I thought more than anything else, if I win, you win. - Yeah. - If I get to make more things, you get to do more things. The more that culture sees us succeeding, the more they want to give us things. And it's very shortsighted because it's like, oh, this is a hit, let's recreate it. But I remember at the time thinking like, damn. Okay, I mean, it's a take. You're entitled to it. - These are really hard on other things. - Like, man, when was the last time like a gay person set a record at the Emmys? - Right. - Why are we not celebrating that? And I'm not asking people to like blindly support my work. But I always think when there's a real success that is part of the community, like that is a win for all of us. - I also find that like the most specific like hate hatred I get. If I encounter it, it's from another gay guy. And I really, I don't know what it is. And I really, it hurts more than anyone else saying anything to me. And I don't know why. - I think it's because we're still under the, it's like a lot of my like actress friends say that some of the worst moments in their lives where they felt the worst came from other women. And you look at a cultural, I think it's a cultural thing. I think we are indoctrinated to believe that there's only so many spaces for people who are not straight and white and male. And so everyone else has kind of grown up with this sort of belief that like, if I happen to make it, it's against the odds. And I don't wanna lose that. - And you taking the spot that could have been mine. I have to believe that it's a part of that, which is why I have a lot of empathy for it because I think, well, this is all part of the culture being marginalized is this belief that like, I'm gonna start to feel insecure if someone like me succeeds and it's not me. - Did you bring any of that insight into creating big mistakes in your character and big mistakes? - No, no, I just, for me, it's always about like, tell the story, focus on the story, it's what worked for me on shits. I never thought about the audience. I never thought about other people's expectations. I think the minute a writer's room starts to think about what the audience wants, they lose the plot. - Okay. - Because I think a lot of times what the character wants and needs is not what the audience wants for the character. And it's hard to keep the noise out. How do you practice that? You just have to shut it out and care about the story you're telling. You don't even mean like you know more about the story you're telling than anyone else. You know why a character should do something or say something or make the decisions they make because it's a guttural instinctual thing. Like, so for an audience who's like, gosh, I really hope they stay together. Sometimes it doesn't benefit the character for them to stay together. It benefits the audience. But if you earn it, that choice, I mean, we made some decisions on shits that I think went against audience expectations but I have to believe they were the right decisions. - Right. It's like, I mean, this is so, so minor. But it's like when they were looking for David and I thought he was gonna be in New York and he was on the farm. - No, he's too scared to be in New York. He would never have gone out for work. - But I would assume that they were going to New York. - No. - And he did not have this savvy to get to New York, unfortunately. Him and his helmet-lang mohawk-tooty could only get so far. - Again, they got somewhere. - They did get somewhere. - Yeah. - Yeah. Well, I just, like, thanks for saying that because I am working on a show for the first time. - Okay. - Oh, right, you're working with Paul Bergenti. Don't even put, I love Paul Bergenti. - Paul is the greatest of all time. - I know. - He's amazing. He's amazing. I met him on a commercial shoot. - And, like, couldn't be nicer. Couldn't be more generous of spirit. - Yes. - And he-- - Such a cheerleader and a champion for, like, ideas that he loves. - Yeah. - Yeah, and he, the way we got to making the show was I was, like, basically very self-tapprecating in, like, my life and my experience. He was, like, this is so funny. This is a show. And now, my worry is that all I can think about is what people are gonna think of it. - You can't, I know, and so you're just saying that just now. - Here's the key. You gotta come out of the experience with closure. And the only way you can win is if you do, if you make exactly what you want to make. Because at the end of the day, if people don't like it, fine. But the biggest heartbreak is if you compromise, your idea, and dilute it to the point where it's accessible to people or you've made concessions for whoever's making it, like, you can't get that back. You can't get the idea of, like, when you put your head on your pillow at night, the show has to be exactly what you wanna make it. Like, what you want it to be. Otherwise, you're gonna go to bed and think, gosh, if I had only held out, if I had only fought more. Maybe it would have been different. - You gotta fight for the things you believe in, 'cause that's it. - Right, have you ever had that experience? - Yeah, of course you have it all the time. I think that's part of making TV. You're, you know, in a creative process with people, they have the things that they want to be worked in. You have the things that you wanna be worked in. I also have a real, like, I don't like pandering. And I think we're in a culture now where, like, nobody has faith in the audience. Everyone believes that we are, like, on four different screens. And maybe we are. I don't wanna make TV for someone who's not watching my show. - Right. - I wanna make TV that makes me feel good and makes me laugh, because there, again, there's closure. You've made the thing you wanna make. Great. If it works, if it doesn't work, that is outside of the world of you making the show you wanna make. So, shut the doors and make sure that the show that you're making right now is exactly what you wanna make, because opinions aside, that's all you have at the end of the day. - I know, I think, for me, what I get scared about is because I came up on the internet. - Yeah. - And the, and, like, cancel culture is so, like, like, like, pariah-based, that, like, I'm so scared that if someone hates what I do, and that they hate something I've said, or hate something I do, that I will lose my whole job, and I'll lose everything. And so, I think that's why I constantly think about, like, the audience is because I'm like, well, number one, I care if they like it, 'cause I care if people like me. And number two is, I'm scared if they don't like it, and they don't like it enough that I'll get in trouble, and I'll lose everything. - Well, I appreciate your thought processes. It is practically impossible that that would be the case. You will never lose your job. You're too good at your job to lose your job. It's about protecting your idea. People like what they don't know that they want. Think about anything that's broken in culture. You could not have predicted it. There's no algorithmic sort of math equation that could have led to any of the things we have come to really, really love. I've been there. I know exactly what you're talking about. - You deal? - The threat of, like, losing what you have by making some kind of mistake is an illusion. - You think so? - I think so. Because I think if you actually believed that, you would be pedestalizing your ego in a way that is unhealthy. - Okay, so I'm a little stupid. So what do you mean by pedestalizing your ego? - I don't even know what that means. I was just like, I mean, no, I do. You would be prioritizing your ego. You would be putting your ego on a pedestal. Being like, I care about what people think of me. I care about this being a success. All of those things are fine, but they can't be what drives you through this show. - Right, again, everything that I have loved has been an anomaly, including my own show. Nobody in America wanted to make Shits Creek. We took it out to every network, every streaming service. No, no, no, no, across the board, even with Catherine attached. Oh yeah, nobody wanted to make it. So we made it on our own up in Canada with no intervention of create a people's, well, the first 10 seconds have to be really, really action packed 'cause you have to rope your audience in. We were free and all we did was make a show we wanted to watch and wanted to be a part of. That's it. You can't control anything outside of that and it worked. And now people are wanting to make, what's the next Shits Creek? - Yeah. - It's not about what the next Shits Creek is. It's about prioritizing people whose ideas are good. And not being scared that they're not mainstream enough for an audience to understand. Let the audience catch up. Because the act of an audience playing catch up with something you're making, only build stronger ties to the thing that you're making. - It's just like, I feel like all goes back to, like if you believe in something and you believe it's good, and you don't seem bothered by other opinions. - Yeah. - People are, it's like, I always relate it to, when you find someone annoying, you meet someone and you're like this person is so annoying and then you're with them for like a few days. And then the next day, they're still annoying but they're still doing the thing that annoyed you but they haven't changed. Like they haven't changed based on the fact that you think they're annoying. So then you start to respect them and then you start to appreciate that. - Yeah. - And like that's how I feel it is with culture and people in culture. - Yeah. - You have to just know that you made the show you want to make. - Yeah. - That's it. That's it. - Well, thank you. - And you should fight to the nail to make sure that you preserve whatever it is you want to make. - I will. - And there should be a line that you draw in terms of if someone says, well, what about, could we just, you have to know where the line is? Because once you cross that line, it doesn't become your show anymore. You're making something else. - For other, for not myself. - Who knows? Who, I don't even think they know, right? for an audience that nobody know, I mean, no one could have seen heated rivalry coming. - Right, and another Canada. - Think about that pitch. - Yeah. - And now everyone's like, "Uh, Gabe, get butts kissing." - Right, right, right. - It's not about that. - Yeah. - It was the idea. And the idea was not something that anyone wanted to make outside of Canada. - Canada's always with it. - Well, they, because it's a smaller market, you can take risks. - You grew up in Canada, right? - Toronto. - Yeah. - Did you miss it? - I do miss it. I was just back there. - It's wonderful. - I saw you wearing a maple leaf. - Maple leaf's jersey. - We were, I was, I was filming something and they brought all the cast to a maple leaf scheme. - A maple leaf scheme during the blizzard. Like, do you remember the blizzard that just happened? - No, yeah. - So it was like, oh my god, it was like, honestly, like looking back at it one of the best times of my life. Like, we were like walking outside in this blizzard to this maple leaf scheme. I felt like I was in heated rivalry. And then like, I was like talking to this guy. I'm so male-centered. So the fact that I was like in conversation with a guy while this was all happening. - Oh, wow, bliss. - Was bliss. - Yeah. - It was bliss. - Bliss. - Yeah. - And I love Canada. I love everyone. So nice there, Tim Horton's. - Tim Horton's. - Scroolers. - What? - Crueler? - What's that? - It's a donut. - Okay. - It's like a twisted sort of, how do you describe a crueler? - It's like a twisted donut, but it has a different consistency. - Okay. - You Canadian too? - I know. I love Canada. - Honorarily, I guess, now. - Canada is the best. The food's great. People are great. - Yeah, Toronto's great. Toronto's great. It's where they went in the Handmaid's Tale when everyone was being held captive here. - That is right. - Yeah. - The Haven. - Canada is a safe haven. This episode of Therapuss is brought to you by Booking.com. Booking. - Yeah. - Well, as I said in Seekheak, it is festival season, which means you might be traveling. It is also summer, so you are hopefully traveling if you are able to. I'm Booking.com makes traveling as easy as possible. It makes the basis of your trip, which is finding a place to stay, and finding a place to sleep easy. Especially if you are traveling with a group, everybody has different preferences, like some may want to pool, some may want walking distance, some may want to tub, some may want to shower, and you can put all that in, and Booking.com will help you find the perfect place or hotel for your stay. It also can help you like, fully round out your trip, if you need to rent a car, like whatever you need, Booking.com has it. I've said a million and one times. It has really helped my travels. I know me and my friends are planning summer trips right now, and we are using Booking.com because we are all very particular in where we like to stay, and what we need. And I've said this before, but when I was on tour, Matt would literally, like we'd pull up to a city and Matt would book it on Booking.com. He would have our preferences, find a hotel and book it. And it really just like takes away that anxiety from exploring a new place. So it like almost allows you to fully immerse yourself into where you're going because you don't need to worry about where you're staying, because Booking.com has it covered. Find exactly what you're booking for at Booking.com. Booking.com. Yeah! Book today on the site, or in the app. Dan, what are you therapist about today? I believe there should be one flight a day that does not have children on it. Yeah, and so like, what do you mean by that? Please don't. No, I agree. I agree. I see you. Listen, I love children. I would just, I think, and this has, I understand the plight of parents with young kids. My sister has a three-year-old, totally understand. Not being lacking in empathy for parents. I think there should just be one way better to flight a day where if you are spending your hard earned money on an airline seat that you don't have a screaming baby beside you, I'm not saying take them off the airplanes. I'm simply saying, or even one a week. I'll take one a week. I mean, I prefer your one a day. Okay, yeah. But like, the concept of having, and this is, again, I feel like people are so, this is a real hot button issue. Oh, believe me. I know. So let me preface it, or I guess I've already said it. I love children. Give me one plight. One plight. I mean, I was on a plight. Especially a long haul. If it's an overnight, and you're spending the big money. I have a screaming. And all you want to do is sleep, or you're on a red eye. And my thing was I flew Saturday morning from New York to LA. And I, when I have a morning flight. I'm doing that tonight. And I'm on a red eye. Yeah. To New York tonight. Well, I don't sleep before, like, my morning flights. Like if I, if I have, I had a four. Of course, because you have to, the anxiety of getting up. Yes. Yes. That's the anxiety of getting up. And I was out all night. And I was, you know what? Well, that's where we differ. But I understand the anxiety. I was shaking back into my apartment. Like, desperately trying to keep my eyes open. Yeah. Because I was so tired. But I knew that if I closed my eyes, I wouldn't get up. Well, there's also nothing more terrifying than missing a flight. Right. Or running through an airport. Right. I wish it on nobody. Um, hey, so the airports right now are hell. I got to JFK at 8 a.m. What times your flight? 8 a.m. People with, people with kids. Like, please let me through. I'm like, oh, my God. I know it is. Like, I mean, like, they're trying to get into the bunker. End of time. End of time. End of days. It literally felt like the end of time. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. But it's hunger games. It is hunger games. But I got on the flight. I'm finally, I'm like, I haven't slept. I had the Paul McCartney show that night. And I was like, I need to be, I need to sleep this entire flight so I can fully experience and not be tired. I close my eyes, screaming baby. That's it. It's the whole flight. And I said, why? I, at one point, had a child doing this on the chair. Watch this respectful from the parent. Tell the parent to sit right beside me. And I'm now looking at this kid, looking at the parents, looking back to the kid, looking back to the parents. And finally, I just said, are you gonna do something? I feel, I mean, I feel great about everyone having kids. I do not want them for myself. It's fine. I don't know if I do. If I do, I do want to. A boy and a girl. Oh, wow, you're really committing. Yes, the Adora and Annabelle. We've predetermined the names. Theo, for sure. And Anna, Anna. My friend's name growing up. One of my best friend's names was Anna, Anna Bell. And we would call her Anna B. Oh, that's cute. And I thought it was so chic. Yeah. And Theo door just feels like a Kennedy name. Right. So you're raising royalty. That's what I hope to do. Okay, understood. Okay, so I don't know if you've seen this show before, but we do a section called Tell Me What's Wrongs, where the Pussies submit questions and we give them advice. Great. Are you down for that? Absolutely. My girlfriend is totally out of my league. And it's finally starting to catch up to me. We've been dating for 15 months now. And I think she's starting to notice that she could do a lot better looks wise. Help. I know it's like you just have to have confidence. Blah, blah, blah. I don't want to hear that. I need active steps to prevent a breakup. Wow. Well, that was honest. That was honest. And from an outsider's perspective, if your partner is starting to realize that they're better looking than you, and that is to them of form of currency, I hate to break it, but it's not the right fit. I don't want that from a partner. I don't want to be in a relationship where that's fear-based. I think that whoever this person is, their lack of confidence is making them see things that are possibly not there. That's right. Is what I think. And then maybe those are like sometimes I've had to reconcile with the fact that I'm having these fears because those are my values. You know what I mean? Well, this person's going to leave me because I'm not attractive enough. But they've never said that or showed that to me. I'm thinking that because would I do that? Do you know what I mean? What are your steps for this person then? Help. What kind of help? Just help. Just general help? Just help. Okay. And really determine whether it's in your head or a real life thing. It's just a little awkward because this person can't go to their partner and be like, "Do you think I'm ugly?" I would actually really start to note that they can smell it off of you. My best friend gave me the greatest piece of relationship advice. That changed my whole life and it's very simple. When he asked me one question, I was in one of many toxic relationships. And he said, "Would this person run to you?" In what? Doesn't matter. Not walk, run. Would this person run to you? Because if they wouldn't, then they're not right. Right. I think that sums it right up. And it is that he's just not that into you theory. I think we all know what we're dealing with, deep down. And you can fight and fight and fight and fight for somebody that you're trying to win. But if that's the dynamic, you've lost. Because then once you win, then you're unhappy with that. Find the person that will run to you. And it's hard to accept that because so often we date people who wouldn't and hope that we can change them. Yeah. You can't. It's tough. You know what I prescribe? Yeah. You know this song "Old Money" by Lana Del Rey? Yes. Where she says, "I'll run to you. I'll run to you. I'll run." I prescribe that. Are you a Lana fan? Yeah. - Oh yeah, how excited are you for the new album? - I'm excited for every new album. Again, a singular voice. She's not pandering to an audience. - Ever. - Ever. She created a whole genre. - And she has a, she's carved her own path. - Yeah. - And that's why we love her. - I mean, I think some younger people today don't really realize the heat she took when Born to Die came out. - Oh yeah. It was like, enemy number one. Like she was enemy number one. - Yeah. - It is a legacy that has made open windows and doors for so many people. - Yeah. She doesn't care. - Yeah, I prescribe blonde at all right. - Okay, great. I took too many edibles with this really hot guy. I'm trying to cuff and ended up greening out all over the inside of his car, like project tile vomiting, sad face. How do I get out of the vomit zone with him? IDK what to do? He was expectantly very grossed out. And unfortunately, I don't know if there's a comeback from that. - Here's what's tough for me. I have a real tough time with smells. - Oh my God, me too. - And the minute you assign a smell to a person, it's over. - It's over. Whether that breath being bad, whether that be a fart. - It's exactly it. - It's over and I'm sorry and I could not agree with you more. I've struggled with that since I was a kid. - So let's just hope that the partner has not assigned that smell to this person. - Right, maybe. - I think that's the only way that they can get through it. - I actually have found a new scent recently. - Do tell. - It is called another 13 from Le La Bo. And then they also have this new one. - Oh, it's cool. - When you were in Kyoto, did you get the Le La Bo? Kyoto exclusive. - What? - So Le La Bo has a, Le La Bo has a Kyoto, as they do, also have a Tokyo exclusive scent. - I have to go back to Japan. - Me and my best friend Alex are like, I think we fucked up. - I have a real great itinerary that I can lay out. - Yeah, that would have, but they have a, Le La Bo's great. - Yeah, Le La, yeah, but so I've been using another 13. I've also been using all sent it to you. This new perfume. It's their newest scent. It's unbelievable. It starts with an L. - Okay. - It's called Levant. It's unbelievable. - Someone brought me back the Tokyo Le La Bo. - And it's called Gek. - Gek? G-A-I-C. - Oh, got it, got it, got it. - Not G-A-I-C-K. - I thought it was, I thought you said G-A. - That would be, that's tough. That's a PR nightmare, but no, yeah. I've been using molecule. - It's molecule. - Molecule one. - Is that Le La Bo? - No, it's its own thing, and it doesn't smell like anything, but it mixes with your pheromones and the people who, so it changes with everybody who wears it. - So it makes you fuckable. - God, I hope so. Okay. - Help, is this an IK? I was on my fourth date with this guy, and it's been going really well. We were out this bar, and it was karaoke night, and he had maybe one too many drinks. He got up there to sing shallow, trying to get me to do one with him. I was so embarrassed and didn't go up, so he just drunkenly sang both parts poorly, very poorly. Do I push through it? I actually think that that is endearing. If I saw, if I was on a date with the guy, and he sang both parts privately, like no one else was watching, and I didn't see other people getting embarrassed by it as well. - Do you like to karaoke? - I tried the, yes and no. I'm actually like, the songs I want to karaoke, I don't know well enough. I did, it's all coming back to me now. - Stunning. - And I realized mid-song that I did. - There's parts of it you didn't know. - That I was part of it, I didn't know. - That's a tough. - And there's video of it, and it was really embarrassing. But yes, I do like karaoke. - I find people who are game for karaoke to be infinitely charming. - Yes, I agree. - It shows a complete ease in the relationship to self. You are open to humiliation and embarrassment, and I find that incredibly attractive. - That's hot. - There are people who are like, no, I could never karaoke. Why? - Yeah, why? Let's get into it. - Why do you think? - Why? - Because I think they are terrified of breaking the seal of an aesthetic, or a look, or a vibe. - And then like, if that's a partner, do you, are you just an aesthetic to that partner? - I'm a partner, I could never. - Yeah. - What's your karaoke song? - I love a duet, Mariah Carey Whitney Houston when you believe. - I love karaoke. - Or one sweet day. - Is that the boys' to men's song? - That's right. - And that's one of the longest running number ones at all time, right? - Yeah, absolutely. - I see, and people don't think I know my stuff. I know my stuff. - Well, yeah, I mean, those are two good ones, and then purple rain, when I've had a lot to drink. - I think my karaoke song is anything Taylor Swift. - Right. - Like, if we're belting here, probably Ari, something with Ari, I'm a very big Ari girl. - Dangerous woman is a great karaoke song. - You know what else is a good karaoke song that I've never done, but I know it would be good. Needy. - Right. - Just because Needy is-- - That's also the thing about karaoke is, you leave the karaoke room, and instantly think about the songs you should have sang. - We should go karaoke. - I would love nothing more. - Should we do that? - Yeah. - Okay. - Where are you based here in New York? - Here in New York now. - Me as well. Okay, so you just-- - We'll go to a place. - We'll keep it attached. - We'll go to Criotown in New York. - Yeah. - Do a private room. - Yep, done. - Private room. - Never public. - Never public. - So are we the problem of people we can't do karaoke public? 'Cause we just like-- - I don't, public is for showboats. - Right. - Public are for the people. Like, you know what I mean? - Yeah. - I feel like go to the Philippines. - Right. - If you want public karaoke. 'Cause you will hear voices you have never heard before. - Unbelievable. - I mean voices. - Have you ever heard Cherisse? - Yeah, of course. You know the clip of Cherisse being pulled on stage with Selene? - No. - I think at one point Cherisse was pulled on stage by Selene Dionne to finish a song. And they do a great job. - Obviously they did a great job. I mean, pyramid stands this test of time. That's a karaoke song. Pyramid by Cherisse. - Peter and I, of course. - Right. - It stands the test of time. - Of course it does. - I know you low-key have beef with European wax center. I need to share. One time I was there getting everything done down there and they burned my asshole like so bad. I had to go to the hospital and get it checked out. It was insane. So safe to say we have major beef with them and refuse to ever go back. So my beef with European, I'm so sorry that happened to you. My beef with European wax center actually isn't with their services. I actually find their waxers to, have you ever been? - No. - Okay, so I actually find their waxers to be quite lovely. My beef with them is that I think something very wrong is going on there. - But the services are good. - The waxers are lovely. Do you know if you are in, do you know if you are in nine minutes late, you're done? You're done. - They cut you out of the nine. Why nine? There's two, that's kind, I mean, that's a move. It's very strong. - Honestly, in Los Angeles, everyone is 10 minutes late. - I went to the wrong one. I went to the one in West one instead of the one in Santa Monica and I called her and I said, oh my god, I'm so sorry. You know, I didn't think European wax center was backed, backed, backed, backed, backed, backed. - No, they, I said, oh my god, I'm on the way. They said, okay, great. If you get here at 109, you're fucked. And I said, what? And then I got there and there was two speaks to me. - Yeah, there was two people working in the desk and there was one waxer, which I found very confusing. And then when you leave, they say, well, you know, you can't leave without the serums. And I said, - The serums for the waxed part for ingrown hair. - Right. - But not only do they have a serum, they have wipes, they have bodywars. - For ingrown hairs? - Yes, and it feels like I am just, it feels like Loub labeled as ingrown hair serum. - Yeah. - I just would like to say, - I now feel like I need to get a wax. You should go and get back to me. Just get like a somewhat like some random part wax and just, but just for the experience of experiencing a European wax center. - Right. - Whether it's, it is very, it's like the back rooms. Something's wrong. - Maybe I need to go for research. - You just do, go for research. - Okay. - It's very strange there. So I see you. - I once in a long time ago used to relax my hair. - What does that mean? - Like you'd like apply, you'd like apply a chemical treatment. - Do you have curly hair? - Yeah. - Oh, you, I know that. - Yeah, yeah, yeah. - Well, it's straight right now. - In old age, it's straightened itself out, but like at the time I had very frizzy curly hair. And they burned all the way around myself. - Well, did you see who? - No, because my place of employment at the time had a working relationship with this salon and they didn't want her off of others. - So I just had burnt scalp for, anyway. - Life is so unfair sometimes. - It's tough. My girlfriend forgot our anniversary. We've been together for three years and she's always doing shit like this. Never my birthday, not yet at least, but stuff like our friends and my families, et cetera. I'm genuinely, really upset about it, but I'm trying to keep my cool. How do I react to this in a smart way? I'm far too angry to do anything right now. - Ooh, this is hitting a deep, deep wound for me. - Is it really? - Yeah, well, I wouldn't call it a wound, I guess. I have no problem if someone forgets my birthday. Nothing, no problem. - When is your birthday? - August 9th. - You're Leo and you're telling me that with a straight face. - I'm a double Leo Scorpio rising. - And you're telling me that you don't give a fuck when somebody forgets your birthday? - No, because I forget everyone's birthday. - Okay, so you give yourself a birthday? - I love my friends dearly. I am not a birthday person. I celebrate my birthday. birthday every 10 years. I'll throw a big party every 10 years. - That's awesome. - I'll give myself that kind of time in the sun, every 10 years. Me turning 43. - I got it. - Really? Did you like your 40s? - Do you like your 40s? It's been, it's been conflicted. - Did you like your 30s? - Loved my 30s. - That's what everybody's got. - The clarity that comes in your 30s is like someone lifts a weight off your shoulders and you can breathe again. - Really? - Yeah. - What? You stop caring. And also you start to see your friendships for whether they are valuable or not. The minute I turned 30, I looked around and was like this person's not making me feel good. And then that was it. - Every time I see them, there's something I walk away feeling weird. - Wow, people love their 30s. I didn't know when sex, I didn't know when sex in the city mystery brought, they were all 30. Well, I never, I've never. - You want to talk about like feeling fucked up, watching like Bridget Jones's diary and she's much younger than me. Like that's a head fuck. - Right. - You, I, you feel like a dinosaur. When you say like I still feel like nothing has changed. Like, I don't know what 43 is. I don't feel 43, but what is 43? I don't know. - I don't know. - Now I guess it's different. - Did you, it's the same brain as when I was in my 20s. - Ah, isn't that scary? - Just like I care less. - Did you go through a Saturn return? - A Saturn return is ultimately just aging. - But we have to believe. - I will put everything into the stars. - Are you in, are you in, you're so you're not in astrology. - No. - But I'll believe, any, it's, I'm, yeah. I'll believe whatever anyone tells me. - I, double Leo Scorpio rising is hell. - That is crazy. Well, I'm a Scorpio double Gemini, yeah bad, really bad. - I say wow is if I really know what's bad. - But I do know that Gemini's tough. - You Gemini's are tough. I think my roommate has a king for public sex. Whenever she brings a guy home, she always leaves her bedroom door open or is extremely loud. Our Walter Thin and we live in a tiny NYC apartment, what do I do? - Leaving your door open while you're having sex when you have a roommate is fucking wild. - I think you're right on the fact that she does have a king and she wants you to hear. - Absolutely, there's something going on there. It's deliberate for sure. - Oh, I would be the, I was, I've lived on my own for a long time and that's because of, I mean, I've never had that kind of situation but I'm radically honest. - You're good at confrontation. - Yeah, I don't need to hear you moaning in your bed with your boyfriend, shut the door. - Yeah, and actually while we're at it, do you have to be so loud? - Right. - I'm watching TV. - Right. - So just an honest conversation. - It's begging for an honest conversation. - Yeah, she wants you to have the conversation. - She wants you to have the conversation. - I'm trying to think if there's like a show. - Wild move. - Isn't that crazy? It reminds me of like in Bridesmaids when Rebel Wilson's character is like always doing wacky shit at home. And Kristen, we got to be like, what the fuck is wrong? - Unless she's just one of those people that like genuinely doesn't think about other people. It could be that. Well then you might need to move out at the end of your lease. - Unless you like it. - Right. - Maybe she might, if you like it. - Right. - I've heard people having sex and I've been like, okay. - Great. - I've been in hotel rooms and I've been like. - Yeah. - Sounds like they're having fun. - Yeah, they sound hot. - It sounds hot in city and it sounds like they're having fun. - Absolutely. And that's human. - So now I actually almost take it back. It depends on who you have in the sex. - Right. - It depends on who it is. If your roommate's good looking and their partner's really, I mean not that looks or matter, but in this case it kind of does. - It does. - Let me fantasize. - Yeah. - In that case, if you're going to leave your door open. - Exactly. - But yes, they do have a kink and you should probably say something. Every single dating app is literally hell on earth. I match with the most unhinged, horny, gross looters that I'll just want to come over and hook up with me and then never talk to me again. Even if there's a date involved, I know that's still the end game. What are better alternative ways to get myself out there? - I wish I could say-- - I have no answer. - Meet someone in person. - That doesn't. - We're all so conditioned to not do that that I don't. - You gotta just have to have faith in a higher power that someone will fall in love. - I definitely went through phases where I would get so bored by the apps and so sort of disheartened that I would stop. And then I would go back. You kind of have to assume that it's one in a thousand. - Yeah. - And that's being generous. - Yeah. - You just like-- - In being like one in a thousand will peak my interest. - Also, like if you don't do it, you're not gonna find the one. Like you have to kiss a few frogs. - 100%. - To find your prints. You have to. It's just how life works. And you don't, and you know, if yeah, I don't know. - I would, yeah. - I wish we could go back. I do think there is nothing more romantic than meeting someone in real life and having a connection. - It's beautiful. I just found out I'm narcoleptic at age 28. For years, my family and friends just thought I was lazy, uninterested, et cetera. Ooh, wow. I always felt driven and motivated, but I cannot stay awake during the day for the life of me. This is how I feel. I was talking to a doctor randomly, and he was like, yeah, dude, that's narcolepsy. Now I have all this medicine and stimulants I need to take, FML. So what do you need help with? - Is that his question? - Yeah, that's it. - He's just telling us that he's narcoleptic. As someone who doesn't sleep that much, it sounds kind of great. - Yeah, I've had such a horrible sleep schedule. - How do you really? - Like, horrible. - I don't know if you get a night, but it depends. - How many hours do you get last night? - Six. - Yeah, you feel well-rested. You feel, I love it. - 20, 26, six hours of sleep is like, you're winning. - No, you are, do you have an eight sleep? - What? - Oh, Dan. It tracks your sleep, you're snoring, you're ARIA. - I don't know if I can deal with that level of confrontation at this point. - Yep, I got that. I understand. - I've been falling asleep to, I've been falling asleep to different sounds because I think when you're traveling a lot, it's nice to have a consistent thing to listen to. And my therapist recommended this like erotic sleep app. - Shut up. - The sub-chapter in this sleep app is you falling asleep in different people's places. - You've sent this to me? - Yeah. So I've been falling asleep to like Marcel's cabin in the woods. And it's like someone typing at their computer and you're like lying down with like the rain falling outside. - Do you ever turn like you have a boyfriend? - A little bit. - Send this. It's just the joy of like, it's like when you're not to sort of conflate this light erotic app with like my own childhood. But it's like when you fall asleep knowing that your parents are like moving around. There's like a comfort of knowing that someone is awake. - Yeah, I'm gonna have you send this to me. - Okay, and I'm gonna try it tonight. - But now as an adult, it has like a kind of erotic twist to it. And someone will like talk to you for the first two minutes. - Like say what? - Say like, I'm trying to remember, but it's like you can like choose like a Scottish voice who's gonna talk to you and say like you've had a really rough day like take a sleep, take a nap. - Oh, shut up. - I'm gonna like-- - What is this app called? - I'm gonna like paint and you'll hear them like painting. - What is this called? - I can't remember. I'll get you as soon as this is done. - Okay. - Well, that was the last time me what's wrong. - Great. - Well, Dan. (laughs) - What did we learn today? - We learned so much. - Well, Dan, I really feel so grateful to have spoken to you today. - Likewise. - I feel-- - What a spiritual conversation. - That was really beautiful. I really took in what you had to say. - Good. - I learned. - And like as you make this show, I'll give you my contact information. - Please. - I would be more than happy to be a sounding board if you ever need anybody. - Well, that was some of the best advice I've gotten so far ever. So I really, really appreciate it. - Thank you so much for having me. - Thank you for being here. What did you learn today? - It's okay to call out a lie. - Yeah. - In front of someone you've just sort of spent time with? - Yes. - It is okay. - And it's, you gotta call it. - Yes. - There was something in me that like had to proclaim my lie to you. - Yes. - And I felt better. - And I felt very comforted by this conversation. - I felt-- - In a variety of ways. - Me too. I'm leaving this feeling amazing. - Bye, busses. (upbeat music) (upbeat music)