Session 100: Kerry Washington

(upbeat music) Hi, Pussies, and welcome to the 100th episode of Therapus. It's actually so crazy that we are at 100 sessions. You know, when I started this podcast, I felt like it was going to be so difficult to like make my own name in this industry that has been so crowded over these past few years, but I'm so, I feel so grateful and lucky that because of literally, you guys, all you guys, that I've been able to make Therapus, or we have been able to make Therapus into what it is. And I can sit here in this room and interview people I've looked up to since I was a kid and talk to my best friends and read questions from you guys and call you guys and just it's become this thing that I never ever thought it would be. With this 100th episode, I'm just like feeling very grateful, especially for you guys for watching every week, giving me feedback and helping me be better at this, really, is what I'm feeling grateful for. For the 100th episode, we have the one and only Kerry Washington, aka Miss Olivia Pope. If you know me, you know, Skandal's literally one of my favorite shows of all time. And it was kind of a no-brainer when we were talking with Kerry Washington about doing Therapus that it just the 100th episode felt so right for her because Skandal has been such a huge part of my life. It has like joined me on so many different eras of my life from when I was in eighth grade to when I rewatched it during COVID, to when I'm rewatching it now, like it's just been with me throughout my life so to have her be here for the 100th episode just felt very full circle for me. She is here to not only talk about Skandal, which we do, but also talk about her new movie Wake Up Dead Man, which is out December 12 on Netflix. I'm very excited to see it. I love the Knives Out series. Just I cannot believe we're at 100 episodes. I've been able to do so many things. I never thought possible because of this show. I was able to tour and meet you guys. I never thought I'd be comfortable enough to get on a stage for an hour or two hours and just talk and this show like talking to you guys through this show every single week has made me comfortable in the community that you guys really helped create. It was so like welcoming of like all of like my accomplishments and even flounders and like flounders. This second they came out of your mouth was like, no way he keeps going. But yeah, like really and truly, I am so grateful for the show, but more importantly, I am so grateful for you guys. I cannot wait to see what the rest of the season brings us and the next season. And I just, I love you guys. If there is anything you guys want to see going forward, the show is what it is because you guys have a voice and I'd love to hear what you guys think. And in honor of the 100th episode, I'd like to ask everybody who's in the room with me right now. They're a favorite moment of therapist so far and that is Louise Nolan Manie and Will. My favorite moment from all of therapist so far is when we talked to Liam Ashell, but specifically when she snatched the cards out of your hand and said, yeah, stop that moment. I was like, I'm not gonna ask her about the reading, but I hope that she like does some of the tell me what's wrongs. And she did. Liam Ashell, I love you. Okay, Nolan, what was your favorite moment? - I have two things. - Okay. - I have a favorite moment, but then I have a favorite thing about doing this show. - Aw. - There's how much of. (laughing) It's just like how much have been able to travel over the past two years. - Aw. - And like me being in my early 20s and everything, just being able to bounce around and do a show that people in my generation and age group connect with so much has just been so cool and it's just been such a wild ride. - Oh, Nolan. - And then you role model and use switching places. - Oh yeah, that was good, that was good. - Louise. - Wallows when he said yogurt. - Oh, it was. - That was sick. - He was dead serious, so. - It did. - Oh, I got a happy belated call. It was just his birthday. - Oh, cute. - I also really loved having Audrey Hober on. - Yes, that was a great episode. - I love how I keep just trying to say my favorite. - Sorry, sorry. (laughing) - It was such a great episode. I feel like you really got to learn more about her right when her album was coming out and it just made you connect so much with the music and the lyrics and she's just such a star and I loved it and I feel really honored that we got to have her here and that was a really great episode. I also love Matt Rodgers. - Oh yeah, that was a great one. - My soulmate. - I love him. - Yeah. - Well. - What happened? What was your favorite mode of therapist? - My favorite. - Do you watch the show? (laughing) - I have not, I have no a back was my favorite. - You were there for that. - Yes. - So what was your favorite moment that you weren't there for? - No, I've listened to, I haven't listened to any of them yet but like that, I watched the clips. - So what's your favorite therapist moment? - Anything Cassidy Brown said. That was my favorite therapist moment. - Yeah, oh can I say one more? - Yeah. - The Carrie Washington promo has been so fun today to see the audience reaction to it because it's been such a tempo of Jake period this year that like seeing all of that come to life is really cool. - Right, yeah, it's like people know how much that show means to me and how it means to everybody. And I love when like a video that we work hard on like all of us like hits. I think we should call Tucker and ask him his favorite moment of my show. - Good idea. - So it's my 100th episode of Therapists and I'm just calling you're on camera if that's okay with you and I'm just calling to ask what your favorite moment of my show has been. - What show? - Therapist, my show. - Therapist? - What, yes. - What is the show called? - It's called Therapist. You were on it twice. - Is it on "Who Lovers" or is it like a sitcom? - It's a podcast. Yeah, you don't remember that you don't remember? - No, I do so many, I can't even remember. - Oh, okay. - Favorite moment is just, I love, because you always get into mischief on there and so I always like that kind of those moments. - Okay. - And you're like, I wonder why this thing happened and I wonder if it's because of this actually. Yeah, I like it when you problem solve on there. (laughing) - Okay, thank you, Tucker. - Hi, brother. - Brother. - Young up. - Well, with that being said, happy 100th episode of Therapists. I love you, Pussies, more than anything in the entire world. The show would not be what it is without any of the wonderful guests that have been on, including my best friends, Brett, Julia, Payton, Alice. It wouldn't be what it is without Nolan, our incredible producer, Louise, Mani, our incredible booking team, Jen and Alex, Zach, Matt, Harley, who does all of our creative and helps design the set, along with Interwoven, who brings the vision to life. Will, let Hacety, sorry, (laughing) everybody that is a part of my life is a part of the show and that includes you guys. Thank you guys for writing in every week. Thank you guys for watching. Thank you guys for just everything, for supporting me and letting me figure this show out as I go. I feel very, very lucky and I love making you guys laugh more than anything. So I hope I can continue to do that. So thank you guys, I love you, tense up forever. As always, to submit it, tell me what's wrong, go to pass that post.com and click tell me what's wrong. Leave a name and number if you're feeling fancy and enjoy the 100th episode. I love you, Pussies. (upbeat music) Are you ready? - Yes, I wanted to agree from Puss University. - You're a professor. - I've an honorary degree. - No, you're a professor. (laughing) You are a professor. - Are you ready? - I'm ready. Are you ready? - No. (laughing) - Quite frankly, no. And I think it is time I tell you that this is actually the 100th episode. - God, what an honor. That's a big deal. - The honor is all mine. - Also, congratulations. - Thank you, but the honor is all mine. (laughing) And before we begin. - Yes. - I got you. - No. - A bottle of Dubai. - Oh my gosh, that's so cute! - I got you a bottle of Dubai. You do not have to drink it, but it's just for visual effects. I can't believe you did that. - Yes, I do. - I don't know if I even knew that that was a real wine. - So the Dubai, the 94 Dubai, it's not a real wine. Which is the wine you and Jake drink on the island while you're standing in the sun. - Yes, of course. - Of course. - But. - Is it for some? - Oh my gosh. - Well, you drink some. - I'm not gonna drink any, but will you? - Okay, good. - Wait, I'm gonna switch out. (laughing) - And we'll just stand in these lights instead of in the sun. So I was just talking to my daughter last night because she's doing this project for school, where she had to talk about the first time she was ever on a plane. And I told her it was when she was three months old, and I was just coming back from maternity leave, and we flew to the Bahamas to film that episode of Scandal. And she was so tiny, and I had to bring her with me. I was freaking out. because Shonda called me while I was on maternity leave and was like you're gonna start the season in a bathing suit and I was like, "What?!" And that was it. That was my daughter's first time on a plane was we secretly flew to the Bahamas so that nobody would know where in the world Olivia Pope was, and we shot this episode in a day on this little tiny private island and she was so itty bitty and then we flew home. - Wait, so that was actually shot in the Bahamas? - Yeah, we shot that on a secret little island in the Bahamas. We flew on a private jet so that the fans wouldn't know where Olivia Pope was, and we shot that episode with a skeleton crew, like our line producer who's usually like the big head honcho and charge. She was like steaming the clothes and holding the props and because we didn't bring a lot of people with us, it was like our DP, the actors, our director. - So a skeleton crew was like a tiny version of a crew. - Right, because that was season three, right? I guess so you would know better than me? - Well, like you know. - Yes, if I was having, if I had my daughter, it was season four. - Yes, that's right, because I- - Because season three you don't get on the plane. - Oh, at the end of season three you're like put me on the plane. - Got it. - Okay, thank you. - Okay, so we just collect myself. - So exciting. - Okay, so that was like the height of scandal though. Because I remember buying season one episode one on the, it was the free iTunes episode of the week, the pilot. - Oh my gosh. - Yes. - Wow. - And then the end of season one was only seven episodes. - That's right. And then you guys, is it true? You guys didn't know you were going to get renewed or not? - We had no idea. I was in New Orleans shooting Django and my producer on the film, Pilar Sivone, who's now my producing partner in Simpson Street, she was watching the show and they were like vericiously the cast, the producers watching the show. And I was like, I don't know if we're going to get another season. And then we aired, yeah, so we aired while we were filming Django and by the end of Django I knew that I was coming back because that was the movie that never ended filming. By the end of filming Django I knew we were coming back for another season and there was this one weekend where I had to do reshoots for Django in between shooting the second season of Scandal. - And did you know because I remember all of a sudden everybody, because I went to school in New York City, everybody in New York was watching Scandal. - Where did you go to school? - Calhoun, you went to Scandal. - Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, right across the park. - Yes, yes. - Okay, amazing, great school. - Where in New York did you grow up? - I grew up in the Bronx, I went to Spence and I really, that's so funny, you know, I was already living out here at the time. Actually, I think season three of Scandal is when I was like, oh my god, I live in LA now because I hadn't moved back to New York before getting Scandal. - Oh, really? - Yeah, I had moved back to New York to do a play on Broadway and was living on the East Coast and really loving being back in New York. And then I read this script and was like, oh my god, I love this so much. And I went back and did the pilot and then we did those, you know, seven episodes. So you're like, I don't live here. But once we were in season three, I was like, oh no, I live in LA now. - Right, because those initial seasons were long. - Yeah, long. - Yeah, 22, I think. - And you guys turned them out too. - Yeah. - Like, it was like one after another. Do you remember, though, because I remember Scandal being one of the first shows, TGIT. Thank god it's Thursday. - For those of you who didn't know with that. - It was Sean tonight on ABC. - Sean tonight. We went Grease, Scandal, how to get away. - I remember. Yeah. - With my head. And but I remember Scandal being the first show that took off on Twitter. - Yeah. - I remember that was like the Twitter show. - Yeah. - So do you remember a time and season two where you were like, not only are we getting a season three, but everybody is watching this? - I feel like the moment that became clear for me was I was sitting in OPA. And we were doing, I was doing an interview with Oprah Winfrey for a show she had that time on her network. I think it was called like, Life Class or something like that. And she wanted to come to set for the interview. And she wanted to like, be on the elevator and walk down the hallway. And then we sat at the conference room to table together. And she said to me that the reason she started watching Scandal was because it's the only thing anybody was talking about on Thursday on Twitter. And I was like, oh, like that was a turning point for me. I was like, oh, oh, this is a moment. We're in like a zeitgeisty, cultural moment. - Right. - Yeah. And it's interesting because appointment television was just disappearing because of DVR and and Hulu. So people were starting to not watch shows when they first came on. So Twitter was actually how we remained appointment television because you could watch the show whenever you wanted, but you couldn't be in the conversation any other time, but that time on Thursday. And you might get spoilers if you waited. - Well, you would. I remember I would like not go on the internet when Scandal would air. - We would have to warn our directors because we would shoot all week, but on Thursdays, you know, first we were on at nine and then at 10 on Thursdays, if you were directing us at that time, it was impossible because we'd be doing a scene. But anytime the director would say, cut, we'd all be tweeting and like barely paying attention to the scene because we were so committed to our audience and so committed to the gladiators that we just we could not not be present for teachers. So we used to say like, can we just take an hour break? Like can we move lunch to when the show is on? And they were like, no, we have to like follow the unit rules about one to shoot. But we were always tweeting in between every take. I remember actually like praying saying to my husband like, I cannot go into labor on a Thursday. Like I can't, I can't do it. Like I can't do it to the show. I can't do it to myself. Like I will be tweeting all through labor. And he's like, oh my god. - No, like you're a gladiator. - Yeah. Wait. So do you do you remember what like what was the most hectic episode on Twitter where you were like holy shit. Like it was just like like the discourse was crazy and like people were suck. - It was really fun to try to predict that. And now you know, we have a show on Hulu called reasonable doubt. That is show run by Ramla Muhammad who I love Ramla so much. Ramla was a writer's assistant on the first season of scandal. And then she rose up through the ranks. And then when I went to go do little fires everywhere, I brought her with me. And now reasonable doubt is her own show. But she carries that scandal culture with her in her head. And when she's writing episodes, she thinks about like what are the moments that people will tweet about or will post about like what are the memes? What are the gifts? Like what are the shockable moments that will make people talk on social media? And she has that just so ingrained in her from the scandal years. And it's brilliant because we used to sit around and guess when people would go crazy. I remember getting like when Fitz was shot. - We're out of my mouth. First of all, that was insane. I just like we all knew that was going to be crazy because it was just first of all the episodes called Happy Birthday, Mr. President. If you're unfamiliar. - It is. - No, I'm not later. Like I can't. I remember watching that in real time and like holding onto my couch and being like what the fuck just happened. - So crazy. - Anything can happen in Chondaland. - Yes. - So like you, we didn't know if he was going to die or die. - It's so true. And also that's what was going on in television in general at that time. Like I remember right before or right around when we did our pilot the first episode of Game of Thrones aired. And I remember when Sean Beans character died on Game of Thrones. All television actors were like, oh shit. Like any things possible. You are never safe. Josh Melina in our cast who played our attorney general. He would always flip to the back of a script to see if he died at the end of every table read because he was like, I just need to know. I just need to know. But it was really exciting to see, you know, it's that thing about sometimes you don't know how much something means to you until you're going to lose it. And so I think to see people's fear about fits being on the edge of his own mortality. It was really, really. I felt bad, but also like really. It was so juicy and good. - It was so juicy. - Watch the panic. - Also just like, Sean just knows how to like take something crazy and then make it even crazier. Like when you got up on the press podium and told everyone that fits was fine. And I was like, wait, but he's in the hospital. - I was like, wait, he's literally in the hospital. And who was the, was Sally the Vice President at the time? I, you would know better than me, but I think so. I think it was Sally. And are you guys, you're all still close this guy? - You are. It's pretty insane. I mean, I was just texting with Belly me this morning. I know that like what Katie and I are doing double dates with our husband in a week or two, like we, we are all very close and very supportive of each other. And really, I think when you go through a rocket ship like that with someone, you just really, you have a different kind of trust, you know, because you've really survived something. And you've committed to each other through a difficult time. And so on the others, I know it may sound weird to call it a difficult time because it was such a blessing that show, but it just turned our lives upside down and it was unknown. Maybe it was unknown, uncomfortable more than it was difficult because it was also amazing. But having lived through that change, it just made us all so much closer. - Right. What was the last day of set like? - The last day of set was surreal. I remember my parents came to town because they wanted to be there. My parents were in our very close to the cast and crew. And all of us, we never made this decision, like we didn't articulate this decision, but no one took their costume. off that day. You know at the end of the day when you're acting you like take your costume off and you hang it up in your trailer and then you go home. But it was almost like if I don't take my costume off maybe it won't end. Right. And so we all stayed in our costume that day and nobody went home. We just kept like collecting by the monitors until the very last shot of the night. And so I have video of like all of us like 40 people standing around the monitors watching the very last shot of the show and just I think being so filled with gratitude and awe for what we were given the opportunity to create together. It was really really special and we all went home in those clothes and kept them and and kept each other in our hearts. Do you remember what the last shot was? No, I knew you were going to ask me that. I knew I know I was in it and we were in OPA because we were gathered around. So there was that office you know in OPA there was the the office that was like not Hux office but after Hux office before the conference room over there. Steven's old office. Yes well done. That that Harrison and I fought over. Yes exactly. That's oh my good lord. No like yeah so that's it. I could teach a cross-course. Whenever we were shooting in OPA if we weren't shooting in that office that's where video village was and video villages where you gather and watch the monitors you know what's happening and usually my dog at the time Josie was on a couch in that office and somebody was holding her and we were watching the monitors so that's where we gathered for the last shot. Oh so so special and Shonda was there of course spouses parents kids dogs everybody was there. It was really really magical. I am just I've been dying to know how did you guys memorize? I know I know it sounds like a silly question. You all had so many monologues each episode so true like Joe Morton especially. Yes and yes and Bellamy had some beast Bellamy I was like how are you? What's going on? She's incredible she's a phenom but I was like how are I know it sounds silly I feel like it's asking dance or how do you memorize a dance every day but like she's also a good question right yeah but like how did you would you go line by line like how did you memorize like where you would it be a little bit of improv how did you do that? So no improv allowed. What? No improv allowed at all. So Shonda has a few rules she's an incredible collaborator she's a wonderful leader but one of the things she says is I don't care how you say it but you have to say what is written. So that is sometimes means there's something in a crew called a script supervisor and they have a lot of jobs but one of the jobs is to watch the words and to make sure that the actors are saying them and sometimes our script supervisors would come in and say you said but and you're supposed to be end like it was real specific very specific and I was really lucky because I had done so much theater and when you're doing something like Shakespeare like if you don't get that right like they am I am a pentameter is off so you have to get that stuff word perfect and I had done a play on Broadway with David Mammott who's very similar like every word has to be word perfect and I really feel like working with Mammott because he directed the play that I did it was called race it's where I met my husband backstage on Broadway and that that experience of working with Mammott and having to be so word specific night after night I think really prepared me for shondaland in a way but everybody has their own tricks somebody like Josh Molina God bless him I hate him for this but he just has a photographic memory no way yeah when he can look at it once or twice and know it word perfect it's disgusting but it's also been really helpful for him because he's come up through like the west wing world and sports night and other shows with other showwriters where people are really really specific for me I had this system where I would do two things that helped me the most one is I recorded all my lines so I would read through every scene between three and five times with my assistant and record them and then I would listen to it like I would listen to it while I did the dishes while I was walking the dog while I was driving to work while I was in the shower like I would just be listening to my lines all the time and the other thing I would do is write them out because writing them out helped me be super conscious and aware of every word I've heard another trick after the scandal years that I've used which I really really love which is to actually memorize the verbs oh interesting because the verbs actually tell you what's happening right like you're gonna remember the names of people you're gonna remember the places but it's like did they go or did they come did they cry or did they laugh did they like the verbs is the verb is what people are actually doing so that is a great through line to help you so I've done that since then but you know who taught me the listening to your lines and this is so funny I was at a dinner in New York after I got the role but hadn't started shooting the pilot and I was with Rosie Perez who had done a lot of Broadway and oh if this actually she this was before scandal this was when I was about to do my first Broadway play and I was trying to memorize mammoth and Rosie Perez had done a play that I love called Frankie and Johnny at the clear deloon on Broadway and she taught me that trick of listening to the lines and that was that really worked more than anything but I would always look like I was crazy because I'd be walking my dog in the morning talking to myself right like yeah that was how I did it and you guys shot in L.A. we did and we didn't go to DC until the finale of the show what all of the DC that you see is green screen CGI until the very final episode of our show shonda flew the whole cast to DC and we actually went like after hours to the African American Museum of History and Culture and we had an incredible time I went to college in DC so I got everybody drunk and we drove around and in show for cars to all the monuments at night because the monuments at night are phenomenal and yeah and we shot those scenes in the finale of the show the last two episodes of the show in DC wow I when you and Cyrus like sit on that what is that monument that you and Cyrus sit on in your final conversation it's the length and I think yeah that was green screen that was green screen we were actually on a stage for that one with steps in a green screen behind us but for a lot of like the Rose Garden stuff we were in Pasadena at the what are those those gardens in Pasadena called the I'm in some library yeah so we were at Huntington Library for a lot of that we shot downtown L.A. like outside the Museum of Natural History downtown USC area for some of the Rose Garden stuff yeah downtown L.A. was DC like when I'm coming out of my apartment building and all the reporters are there what that's the end of what season two two um thank you um that's in career town what yeah an apartment building in career town what do you think like the most iconic scene is besides like if you want me earn me if you want me earn me as good of course um I mean I think the very first time in the pilot when she hears sweet baby no extraordinary that was such good writing because for me when I was reading this pilot I was like oh this is good this is good this is good and then I got to the sweet baby moment and literally through my script across the room was like oh my god like we're so like I'm in like I have to do the show what do I have to do to be in the show I want to be this woman this was written for me I have to do this it is the greatest moment I'm pretty sure you're in the hospital with Clint and she goes she keeps going on and on about how he called her sweet baby and then it goes into slow motion you said what did you say she said she got her dog you said no no no what did you say she said sweet baby and you don't even say anything to Quinn you just turn around and walk out do you want to hear something fun please so because that was our pilot we didn't have sets of our own yet and you know we weren't gonna pay for sets of our own so the oval office we got from some movie I'm trying to remember there was a movie that had just had a white house scene and we just borrowed their sets all of the hospital scenes in the pilot of scandal were shot on Grey's Anatomy sets no way yeah so that scene was on a Grey's Anatomy set what a good omen yeah yeah yeah it's true what was it like when you guys did the crossover with how to get away oh my god that was so cool so that episode was also the scandal one not the how to get away one the scandal crossover was written by Ramla Muhammad that writer so she's the responsible for that whole like you know seen in the beauty salon where I'm like let me reintroduce myself Jay Z moment which also is so that's that's that's why we have a show called reasonable doubt because she's a small Jay Z fan so I I loved every moment of the crossover because you know in this business we talk a lot about kind of how women are often put in silos or pitted against each other or made to feel like competition and we share we graciously shared TGITs we celebrated it together we did promos together all three of us but that moment to really be like sisters and create those episodes together was so so special and to get to do it with Miss Sissley Tyson who like neither Viola or I would have the careers we have today if it wasn't for Sissley Tyson and her like walking that path ahead of us and really leading the way so it was it was really special to be able to work together and to kind of help each other shine right you know did you take any like lessons from the show like would you ever think in your real life okay what would Olivia Pope do yes I still think at times what would Olivia Pope do and I so Olivia Pope was inspired by a real woman Judy Smith and I I do still have a relationship with Judy Swag. and I call Judy at times and I'm often asked to refer people to Judy. Judy's still working? Yes. Okay, I was about to have a lot of questions about Judy. So Judy's amazing. And I see, so ask me your question about Judy and then I'll ask you. So no, no, please you first. Please you first. I'll forget. What are your questions about Judy? She's amazing. Like, is her life is she like, yeah, like it's pretty crazy like this? So she's always quick to tell people that the character is inspired by her, but not based on her because she's like, I never slept with the president. Right. So Judy has a very like her personal life is not messy. Uh-huh. That's the biggest difference between Judy and Olivia. Is that her personal life is lovely and sane and you know, Olivia Pope is a little bit of a mess, which is one of the things we love about her. Love. So, but Judy is, yeah, I mean, she has told me such insane stories about situations that she's been in with CEOs with politicians with people in the fashion business and the music business. Yeah. And is it like, does it ever like, is it ever hard? Cause often we see like, you know, Olivia toe the line like with her morals. And like, I feel like that's like a common motif in scandals. Like, she's going to be able to fix it, but at like what cost? Yes. Does Judy ever feel that way as well? I will say she taught me a lot about learning to be open-minded about perspective and to really challenge myself to come from a place of less judgment and more curiosity, which is something I'm still always trying to do in my life and at work, but to really like not assume that you know what's best and who's best, and open to each person's humanity and that a person isn't, a person is not defined by their worst choice on their worst day, right? And I think that's also a big lesson that we're trying to learn when we talk about criminal justice reform. Is that like people make mistakes and people should be allowed second chances to the extent that we feel like they can rehabilitate and grow. And so Judy really taught me a lot about that, about like having the courage to lean into gray areas and not feel like you have to sit from your safe perch of like, I know what's good and I know what's right. That life is often more complicated than we give it permission to be. That's beautiful. It can be. I think also sometimes like shit is just fucked up and you need to call it, right? Yeah. Sometimes like you just need to be like, no, that's wrong. Like certain things are wrong and bad. And I think for me it was hard when I felt like I didn't agree at times with Olivia. But I feel like for the most part, she really did always try to make choices even though they were complicated ones that were for the betterment of humanity and for democracy. You know what I've been thinking about that it's so well, it's not funny, but it's crazy. I'm like, I would rather have the Fitzgerald Grant government. Oh my god. Then the one we have now. Without question. And there was B613. There was like, it was like a dynasty somehow. Miley was president. I'm like, it was like incredibly corrupt. But I would literally like, choose an any day over today. And what, what was that like when, because scandal was still airing when Trump became elected? What was, how did you guys deal with that in your story of scandal? I mean, I feel like that's more of a question for the writers room. But as I was listening to you, I was thinking there's a little part of me that just hopes that, I mean, first of all, thank you because I feel like you have single-handedly brought scandal back into the zeitgeist. You have been our biggest champion, our biggest gladiator, and I'm so grateful that so many people are enjoying the show because of your encouragement and your enthusiasm and your devotion and your love, and I'm so, so grateful. And I feel like one of my dreams, one of my wishes is that people who are watching the show fall in love, not just with Olivia Pope and with Oleks or Oleks, whichever way you go, but that they become a little bit seduced with the idea that we could have a government where your voice matters. That they become a little bit interested in the idea that these people make decisions that really do impact your life, that the people that we put in office matter, because they do have an extraordinary amount of power and say. And I guess, you know, for me, I feel like in the, I tell this story a lot, but after the election in 2016, Olivia Pope was trending because people that next morning were like, "Olivia Pope has to fix this." Oh no, Olivia saved us, right? And I was like, "Oh, that's so funny." And then I was like, "I don't know that this is okay," because she is an imaginary character on television, and the reality is every single one of those people who was tweeting that, they have so much more power than Olivia Pope, because they're real, right? Like you're real, you can vote, you can register to vote, you can volunteer for a politician that you believe in, you can donate to a cause that matters to you, you can encourage your cousin, your sister, your mother, your father to vote or to understand an issue more deeply, to be more open-minded and more inclusive, you have more power than these imaginary characters on television. And I want people to not just fall in love with Olivia Pope, but in the way you have, I want people to embrace their inner Olivia Pope. I want people to understand that you, you, each of us, has the power to be the Olivia Pope in the story of our lives and our communities and our families. And to answer your question before, if anything, I do sometimes ask what would Olivia Pope do, but more often, I'm grateful because she taught me that. She playing Olivia Pope taught me that I could have more agency and more voice in my own life, that I could not be afraid to step into power, and to understand the places and the spaces where I had influence, and to not be afraid to use it, and to be that, to wear the white hat in my own life, you know? Yeah, wearing white hats. Well, you are so active in getting people out to vote. When did you get involved with that? Like, was it during scandal? Was it after? So I'll tell you a really funny story. There's this great organization called the Creative Coalition that has, for many, many years, fought for increased funding for the arts and humanities, or just protecting funding for the arts and humanities. And way before scandal, Tony Goldman was a co-president of that organization. And I met Tony doing that work. We used to walk up and down the halls of Congress talking to representatives and senators about the importance of museums and the importance of after school programs for the arts and the importance of literature and really like arts and humanities. So we would be like in these meetings with politicians years before scandal, walking around DC together. So Shonda thought of Tony for the role of the president on the show because Tony Goldman actually directed one of the very early episodes of Grey's Anatomy. He directs. Yeah. He directed a scandal several episodes. What? Yes. Now you'll have to go back and see that. So also. So now that I'm so happy I can actually tell you something. I feel like you've just been teaching me about my show. I know. I know. So he, I'll tell you something else about that. But so when Shonda was thinking like what actors have like a level of gravitas, a level of like executive power, like who do you believe could be in charge? She thought of Tony because she mostly knew Tony as a director and running those spaces. And so she knew he was a great actor, but she thought of she thinks of him as somebody who's in charge. So she offered the role to him based on their relationship from him directing at Grey's, which is amazing. And I knew him from our DC advocacy days. So kind of getting in a room and doing all this political talk together was not new for us. So you guys have been friends forever for a really long time. And did you know like Shonda before as well? I didn't I had not met Shonda. I was a huge fan of Shondas. And when I read the script, I told you I read it. And I was like, oh my God, I feel like this was written for me. The tricky thing was that there were like 40 other actresses who felt the same way. I need this role. It was written for me. And so it was a highly coveted role in Hollywood. Everybody I knew was reading for I mean from like age 16 to 60. There were so many people who wanted this role who were fighting for this role. And of course I was going to audition. But in Hollywood, there's this whole thing about like if you audition, it means you have less power. So a meeting is fancier than an audition. So how it was set up was I was going to meet her first. And then if the meeting went well, I agreed I would read. I mean, I didn't care about any of this. I was like, I'll run craft services is the most amazing show ever. But I but I was like, I'll do what my team says to do. So I went and met with her. And I remember getting off the elevator and the wall said Shonda land. And I was like, Oh, I don't know if this is going to go well. Like this. I don't know if I want to like move into somebody's land. She felt so extra to me. And then I walked in and I met her. And I think within two minutes, I was like, I'm obsessed with this woman. Her brain, her charm. She was so intense, but so I felt like I like this person. And I had so much immediate respect for her. And then I then I was in trouble because like I was like, No, I really want this role. And then I read for it and it came down to like four. of us tested for the network, which is like, you make your deal and you go in and you read for the network and the casting director, Linda Loey, who is Jeff Perry's wife, that was our casting director. Now what? Yes. Yes. And then, yeah, I remember I was sitting at a restaurant in Manhattan Beach with my then boyfriend now husband and I got the call that restaurant no longer exists, but it was a Mexican restaurant called Mucho and I got the call that it was mine and I couldn't believe it. I was beyond myself. Do you remember that final audition you did and what you read? Yes. Of course. We did two scenes. We did the scene where I helped Steven pick out the ring that Huck brings the rings and then we did the bench scene. Be normal. Yes. Be normal. Oh my God. I never would have remembered that. And then the bench scene where I say to the intern, like get a new car, get a hat, like all the things where I read her right before it's handled. Right. That scene. Just speaking of Steven, I remember he, he wasn't, he didn't come back for season two. Where do you, I know you, you're not Sean or you're not in the writers room, but like in your dream world, like, where do you think he would have gone in scandal world if he had stayed? Oh wow. Well, I love where he wound up to be honest with you. I mean, I never expected that. I forget it every time. I'm sorry. I'm sorry to spoil your third time watching. But when he appeared in that episode and saved Olivia's life, I just thought, well, this is the way that you heal this moment and give him closure, give us closure. Like, I just, I loved every moment of that. And it really did allow he and I to reconnect and have some peace about it. It just, it was really, really so special. I love that. I love that the writers did that for the show, for him, for us, for the fans. It was really such a great surprise. I remember it was just, that was besides a happy birthday, Mr. President. I remember just being like, and that for some reason, like, really killed me inside because it makes you think, I think it was season four. And it makes you think like, like, and imagine if he was in that office, that's whole time. Yeah, because he's such a great guy and such an extraordinary actor and it is fun to think. I would love to see some fanfiction on that. Yes. I have to say another episode that, okay, great, standing by, another, speaking of departures, another episode that kills me that I can never rewatch is the Harrison funeral. Oh, I mean, that was just, and like, no one shows up. It's devastating. It's devastating. I mean, because that's when OPA just falls. You go to the Bahamas, Harrison dies, and it's, how do we even get back there? And Quinn, God bless her. God bless her. That's everyone back. And she was the last person out of to OPA. I know who is Quinn Perkins. Yes. Yes. That's right. That's a great addition to OPA. Yeah, we love Marcus. Because I have like the most morals out of anyone. It's so true. And I love that he comes out of that, like, activism, that, that lawn chair episode was so extraordinary. Also. And you know, it was interesting for me. I always think about that lawn chair episode, and that's where we met Marcus. And I love that he joined our show. That episode was so important, because I think for the first few seasons, it was so powerful that there hadn't been a black woman as a lead of a network drama in almost 40 years. And so in many ways, we stayed away from race. We would sort of dip our toe into talking about race. But we sort of, just the fact that Olivia Pope existed and sort of walked with her blackness in the worlds that she was in was enough of a statement. But as the show went on, I think the writers felt more and more emboldened and encouraged to explore some of Olivia's position on race and politics and injustice. And so I think the lawn chair is also a really, really special episode. I remember. I remember that episode also as like one of the moments where, because up until then, Olivia would kind of do whatever the job required. That's right. And I remember in that episode, you, it switched. Yes. You switched. And I choose morality over professionalism. Yes. It was a real moment. Do you remember the reaction to that episode? I remember people being really moved and shocked and very moved. We were in a moment as a country where those conversations were bubbling. And so I think people were, people were always really delighted whenever we stepped into territory that was in any way taboo. And I do remember those moments. I remember those moments as our gladiators, our audience feeling permission to be more honest, more bold, more able to communicate in truth. You know, it's like I had one of the, I think the first on camera abortion on television, on network television. That was one of the first. I think it was the first. I think characters have had abortions, but to actually watch a character in that moment had never happened before. And I remember we had our table read on a Thursday that day. And Shonda had been going back and forth with the powers that be at ABC about whether or not they were going to allow that scene in the episode. And she was like, I'm not going to allow the episode to be aired without that scene. So we were all like, I don't know if scandals coming on tonight. We were all kind of freaked out. But she was so steadfast about like when she, she didn't want to shy away from things that were uncomfortable for people or controversial because she felt like that's who this character is. That's who this woman is. You guys tonight's episode of Therapist is sponsored by the one and only popsicle. For the past like, I want to say, maybe year or two years, I've been doing popsicle reveals with my best friends and I infamously only like the cherry flavor. And I oftentimes don't get it. So popsicle gave me an all cherry, Jake Shane popsicle box. It was quite literally one of the greatest things that has ever happened to me. And we did a giveaway. We're 500 people won the all cherry box. Unfortunately, now the giveaway has closed, but it was so exciting. You guys loved it. I loved it. My friends loved it. Everyone loved it. It was so fun. So I'm so excited that we are partnering with popsicle for Therapist because it is just infiltrating every part of my life as it should. Popsicle eyes pops are so nostalgic for me. I think that's why I loved doing the popsicle reveal so much because I was like reminded that I had free wills and adult and I could just order popsicles and have them whenever I wanted. You know what you stuff to ask when I was a kid? So we are going to do a fun little game today on Therapist. We are going to do smash or pass popsicle edition with some of your favorite nostalgic childhood items. I'm going to hold up an orange, pizza pass and obviously a cherry if it's a smash, which I will pull with 100% success rate from my Jake Shane all cherry box. Keep in mind, I'm being dramatic, I don't hate the other flavors but I obviously just love cherry the best. Okay you guys, I'm obviously going hands free for this game because I'm double fisting popsicles so Louise is going to read some of the childhood nostalgic items and I'm going to smash or pass. Okay, school field day. It depends what age, I would say ages under 12, smash, ages over 12, pass, I don't care. Unless it's overnight, if it's overnight pass or smash. The used book fair. The used book fair, smash, that is the first time I ever stole something, I stole an entire thing of book CDs and video games from my computer from this elastic used book sale. Um, after school sports, after school sports, pass, unless it's volleyball, smash. Trading cards at recess. Trading cards at recess, pass, sorry, I don't care. Classroom pizza parties. Classroom pizza parties, pass, I hate pizza. Glow in the dark stars on your ceiling, glow in the dark stars on your ceiling, smash. I think those are fun, smash because I've been quite negative instant messaging. Is it messaging? Smash. I love aim and I chat. Do you want to get like a story about it? No. Okay. Awesome. Collecting stuffed animals or keychains? Okay. Collecting stuffed animals, I still do that so smash. Summer sleepovers. Summer sleepovers. Smash. Okay. The last one is going to be. I'm on the edge of my seat and my popsicle. The last one's going to be first with the first flip phone. First? First flip phone, smash, unless everybody else had a touch screen phone. Pass. Okay. I gave you my hot or cold takes. What throwbacks would you add to the list and is it a cherry or an orange for you? Thank you again, popsicle for sponsoring tonight's episode. I can't express what you mean to me. Do you mind if we play like a little scandal game really quickly? Of course not. Okay. So I wanted to play Kiss Mary Kill with scandal motifs. Oh my god. So. Okay. There's three. Kiss Mary Kill. Jam and Vermont. Okay. Wearing the white hat. Oh god. Okay. You can't take command. Oh. Kiss Mary Kill. I think the white hat is Kiss, the jam is Mary and you can't take command would be kill. God. I mean. Mr. Pope. Right. Mr. Pope. So do you know the story? Okay. So Joe Morton is one of my acting heroes. He did an independent film by John sales when I was a kid really young called Brother from another. It was an independent movie nobody saw it but my parents were like art people art house movie kind of people And that movie was on in my house and I loved Joe Morton and they we knew him from other stuff from theater So he's literally the first to guest star that I called home about was like mom and dad You're never gonna believe who's on the show But I did not know who Joe Morton was playing on the show I did not know he knew Because he had an offer at the time to also do a play on Broadway and Shonda was like I need you to play this character And he was like I don't see who this character is or where they're going and she said you're gonna be Olivia's dad But no one can know not even carry So Joe Morton shows up at our table read. I'm freaking out. I call home I'm like you guys Joe Morton's on the show This is so cool and I never get any scenes with him all his scenes are these cryptic scenes with Cyrus being on a bench or Jake on a bench like having these weird rendezvous conversations and I'm like I hope we get a scene together one day He's like mm-hmm. So literally. It's not till I read that episode Where I get it at the table read with my cast where I get in the car and he's sitting there and I look up and say dad Question mark that was the moment that I found out that Joe Morton was playing my father was everyone like Everyone was freaking out, and we did a show. We did a live table read at the Paley Center before the episode aired or maybe the night that the episode aired where we read that episode out loud And I remember because Oh my god, there were so many amazing amazing people in the audience One of them was Debbie Allen who directed episodes of Scandal and who actually choreographed the dance Sequence in the episode that I directed But everybody when we got to that line at the Paley Center went crazy like people were jumping out of their seats like throwing stuff and we also Didn't know like even though at that point. I knew he was my dad We went to Shonda and we were like, well, what's our relationship like and she was like we kind of haven't figured it out So I when we shot the end of that episode. I said dad a 150 different ways we have me being like dad dad dad Like every version of dad because we were like we don't know where it's going So that was really exciting and then I was like, oh, I think I'm gonna have some scenes with him And then I got to just spend the next few seasons working opposite one of my acting heroes and learning from him every single day What do you remember what you learned from him? I mean one of the greatest things I learned from Joe was To not be afraid of your anger And there's also a real elegance to the way that he works It taught me a lot about where Olivia Pope comes from But it really taught me about like just what elegance looks like what it sounds like, you know because no matter what Emotion he had he never left his elegance behind Right so beautiful He he had some of the greatest monologues in that show straight greatest But he what do you say come the heller high water and to be clear? I am the hell and the high water Yeah, I mean he said that thing that black families have been saying to black kids forever of you have to be twice as good to get half as much And people were freaking out on the internet because that's like people something that like only black people said to each other And he just like put out on blast into the culture which was so incredible Yeah, he had so many amazing he taught her everything about wine You know, he's it was really fun to get all that backstory and that relationship and You know, I wrote in my own memoir thicker than water that I've always had a really complicated relationship with my dad And I think it was really powerful for me I didn't even know at the time like I have all these notes in the margins of my scripts being like boy What is what am I working through because I really believe characters come into your life to teach you things? And so in the scenes with Joe I was always like, what am I working like what is the dad stuff that I'm working through? I can't really put my finger on it So it's so interesting to me that after the show ended the kind of world of me discovering more about my relationship with my dad Not being my biological father and all of that that that like unfolded after the show ended that all unfolded after yeah right after we wrapped Yeah, do you mind if I ask you no, please do yeah, okay, I imagine I wrote a whole book about it I'm like I'm not taking questions. No, I mean, you know what like sometimes people want to just put stuff out there That's true. That's true. And that's for the asking no, no, you can I feel like you can ask me anything. Well, my god I love you You found out about that through a show right yes another show Yes, I was going I had I was friends with skip gates who is a professor at Harvard who has this show finding your roots on PBS where they research people's ancestry and I'd always wanted to be on the show But I never had time because we were always shooting we were always filming and when I wasn't filming scandal I was either making a movie or getting married or having a baby like that's what all my off seasons were and when scanned He read in I don't know he read online somewhere that it was going to be scandals final season and he called me and was like You can finally be on the show will you come do it? I said absolutely I was so excited because I just knew that my parents were gonna be thrilled to find out more about who They were and who I am and and so I I told my parents that I was going to be doing find your roots and my mom was like oh, that's good And I was like that didn't sound authentic and my dad basically started having panic attacks And I was like what's happening and so I actually I was like you know what dad? Maybe you should talk to skip gates because you guys are kind of of a similar generation and you know kind of older black man Like maybe he can help you navigate whatever fears or concerns you're having And so my parents actually told skip before they told me my mom was like hey, let's just say Hypothetically speaking that carry we used a sperm donor to have carry is that something that would show up on the show and skip was like 150% and you should tell her and they were like we can't we can't tell her But he helped convince them to tell me and how did you initially like take that news? I would say I was talking about it with my Younger daughter recently. I was telling her. I think I've had all the feelings about it Like any feeling you could possibly have on like a chart of feelings that they have at school like I have had those feelings about this Initially, I think I was shocked and then really weirdly I was like relieved Because I always knew that there was something it's like that the princess and the peathing You know at the danger of deferring to myself as a princess like I always like knew that there was something off In the relationship in our family, but I couldn't put my finger on it. So to get that news was like oh Okay, right now. Maybe we can start being like real in this family and did you notice like a change in your relationship with your dad Like oh like a lighter weight was a weight was lifted off I would say with my mom things changed immediately Because my mom and I had always had the secret between us. That was really in many ways protecting my dad and so we like Immediately fell into a new kind of intimacy and lightness and It was as if I sort of talk about it in the book as if like a veil got lifted between us For my dad it was a little more complicated because he he like really didn't want to talk about it or deal with it. He kind of didn't want it to be true and didn't want to acknowledge it publicly and just like wanted to ignore it completely which I was like we're not doing that right so it was it had It's challenges for sure moving forward and what was it like writing the book? Yeah, writing the book was really helpful because I really feel like I wrote the book for myself to make sense of all this to kind of go back through my life with this new Framework and understand myself and my family more clearly like somebody gave me a key to unlock my family And now I want to go back in and sort it through So the book was really helpful and really healing and I mean in many ways and so many people have said this to me My dad is the hero of my book, you know, he's he is the guy who like despite what biology says he's my dad He's always been my dad and he loves me so hard He's never wanted to entertain any thought other than that And I'm so lucky that I had people in my life who loved me so much that they like Not just prayed and hoped for me, but like did something. I mean when I was born It wasn't like today We both have so many friends who use sperm donors like go and look through a binder and like Pick out what color eyes the donor has and where they went to college and like this was the Wild West Like this was my mom doesn't know anything about the donor She was like I just want him to be black and healthy and and really she says you They wanted him to be black just so that nobody knew that my dad wasn't my dad wasn't my biological father But it was the Wild West. She you know, she just like went to an office when they said there was sperm there and that was it She didn't know where it came from. She didn't know anything. So It was it was it was really great for us as a family for me to write the book and then for us as a family to kind of get to live in that Truth that my dad is in such a different place about it now. Wow. Yeah, congratulations I feel like you've also helped so many people and so many families. Oh, thanks. It's true Like you know sharing your story like that like definitely makes it so much less taboo But I think it's funny. It's like I had spent so much of my life Dedicating myself to being these other characters and I think one of the reasons by acting was something that I gravitated towards because I was looking for myself. I was looking for the answer to that question of who am I and it would be like, am I this person? Am I chanille from Save the Last Dance? Well, a little bit, but not fully. Am I Olivia Popo a little bit, but not fully? And it was almost like this character and this show was so groundbreaking and just changed and shifted history and culture so much that it was finally like, when this was over, I had the courage to really get the information of who I was. It was wild. It was like, OK, you've now stopped looking for yourself in these other people. I think also because I had been her for so long that when that show ended, I really was ready to re-examine and ask myself, who am I now? So there was this space in my life for taking on a new character and that new character was me. It was like, now I think I'm ready to be number one on the call sheet of my life because she had taught-- really, Olivia Popo taught me what it-- she taught me that I was capable of being the lead, of having my name on that door, of being the center of the story. And so now I was ready to be the center of the story of my real life. Right. And what was it like saying goodbye to Olivia Popo? You know, I was ready. I feel like that's often not people what people want me to say, but I was really ready. Remember, Shonda came to me and she was starting to feel ready. And she was like, I either have one more longer season or two more shorter seasons. And we talked about it. And it felt like the two more shorter seasons would be better for fans, better for us, better for everybody to be able to say goodbye. And it felt like it was time. It felt like we had told all the story we could tell with her. And I wanted to go out before other people were done with her. So I was ready, but I definitely missed her. And I felt like I always will feel so grateful to her. Like, she gave me so much. I mean, she gave me my career. She gave me my production company in my scandal years when I learned so much about what it means to be part of a family. And I mean that in both ways. Like, I had never been part of a project that went on for eight years, right? Like, so to be in a creative family in that way. But also in those years and the stability of that show is when I got married and started having children. And so I really, I just learned so much in that time. I became a producer in that time. I made some of the best friends in my life in that time. I learned how to hire people, how to fire people. I learned how to, you know, there was just so there was so much that I learned and that she gave me that I'll just forever be so grateful. I mean, it is literally my comfort show. I've seen it three times I watched it during COVID. I watched it while it was live on television. And then I was with my friend and we were going through Netflix the other day. And we were like, oh, and scandal obviously. And he was like, oh, I've never seen scandal. And I was like, okay, well, if we're going to do this. We are doing it like I get jealous. Sometimes when people haven't seen shows that I love, I get jealous because I'm like, oh my God, like you get to live through that for the first time. Like when people tell me they haven't seen Game of Thrones or even just more recently, like I love the penguin. When people tell me they haven't seen penguin, I'm like, oh my God, it's so good. She just won for it, right? And she's so deserved, so incredible, so, so good. Like I get really excited for people when they haven't seen shows that I love because I'm like, oh, you are about to get on a ride. Oh, what are you watching right now? What am I watching right now? I was late to the pit, but just finished and I'm obsessed. Okay, I can't wait. I got two episodes in and then I started my scandal, everyone. No, no, no, no, there's room for both. You must, you must come back to the pit. But I'm like an employee right now. You guys are seriously like, I'm like, do you promise me you'll go back to the pit? I promise that I will go back to the pit. But like right now, like I am like hourly paid, I'm paid hourly, O.P.I. I'm like, I am clocked in every single night from 9 to 12, like I can. Oh, my God. Unfortunately, like I have a job. So like, okay, well, when that's done, when that gig is done, yes. But please, it's really, like the pit is fantastic. It's so, so, so good. Yeah, that's a show I love. I love the studio. I thought that was great. Still need to see that. So fun. So fun. So I feel bad. I feel like I'm getting you behind on the things that you must watch. No, no, no, no, no, you're getting me like, I need, I need, okay, I need to watch this and I need to watch this. Okay. It's lined up. You'll get to it. Yes. Okay. Good. Yes. Before we finish our scandal talk, because I feel like I have to ask you about your new projects as well. Yes. Thank you. You're so sweet. Do you, who do you believe was better to Olivia Pope Jake or Fitz? Tell me. Tell me. Tell me. Tell me what you think. Rewatched it for the 25 year olds. Obviously, when I rewatched it, when I was 20, I was like, it's like, he's like literally he's magic. So he's magic. And then I'm like, wait, why are you like actually a horrible ghast, you're like, you're horrible. He's literally like, horrible. Like, I'm like, wait, you are the biggest ghast lighter I've ever seen in my entire life. So all Jake wants to do is just be like, I will give up everything right now for you. So interesting, right? But also Jake has this like violent temper thing that people often call out. And then also you see the way he treats other people in his life. Yes. And it's weird. It's very, very broken. When he's married to Vanessa. Yeah. And he just ruins Vanessa. Ruins. So you're like, ooh, okay. If you're going to treat them that way, what stops you from treating? Who's to say that you won't do that to Olivia? Yeah. I mean, I feel like she just needs a healthier option. Yeah. But I also love both those actors. And I thought both of those relationships were so dynamic and interesting and complicated and real. Like, I don't know. I think both men really love her. I just think everybody on Scandal needs a lot of therapy. A lot. I do. You have. Or therapist. Well, everyone's welcome. Do you have a favorite needle drop from Scandal? Because I told you before I mine was Sam Cook and I remember that. That's so good. What is the episode, because you'll know, I think, Ain't no mountain high enough. Do you remember that? And it's like, it's early and there's like, that we're going in and we're in the apartment where I feel like I remember liking that one a lot. Will you? You know what else I love, which is, when do they do everyday people? That's a great one. That is like. That's also a great one. That's season two. Okay. I forget when, but I remember being like, I need to like look at my, can you look at the Scandal playlist and start reading me off some. There's also like, oh my God, there's this one. It's not the original. It's like a cover of this one song. Yeah. Shonda was so hands on with the music. It was so powerful and important to the show. But I think also the light, I mean, I still get chills when I hear it sometimes. Like, I'm going to walk down the aisle to the light. Oh, that's so sweet. It's seriously like it, when you hear it, you're just like, you melt. Yeah, because that one minute, I mean, that was one of the, that was one of the really incredible things. When it's said in the script, they sit there for one minute. And then I think in the actual script, it said, not a TV one minute, an actual real time, real world one minute. And I was like, we're never going to do that on television. We're never going to actually sit there for one minute. And we did. We did. We sat there for one minute. It was so special. Can you imagine telling Olivia Pope in that moment, like, yeah, so this actually isn't going to work out right now. No, that would have been so bad because like, in that moment, you're like, oh, he chose her. Yeah. But that's the roller coaster we signed up for with these shows. Can I tell you the most random plotline that I was like, in what, no, in what world? Ah, yes, of the many, which one? I want you to, okay, Tom and Cyrus. What? That was interesting. I'm like, wait, and also, Michael, respectfully, why are you mad that Cyrus is cheating on you? This is arranged. Oh, my God. I love it. I know what I mean. It was a lot. It was a lot. It was a lot. It was a lot. It was a lot to track too. But that was, I feel like Shonda loved to just challenge us, challenge our notion of what's possible. Right. It's not. Yeah. But I had been doing all these scenes with Cyrus Bean, Jeff Perry, who, okay, so here's the story of how Jeff Perry got on the show. Shonda Lynn Lynn, Linda Loey, who had been working with Shonda for many years. She cast Grey's Anatomy. She was moving offices. Shonda Lynn was moving offices. And Shonda was in Linda Loey's office. And Jeff Perry was helping his wife move. Right. And Shonda saw him carrying a box and she was like, oh my God, that's so sad. Linda was like, what's sad? She was like, that actor, he's like a Chicago actor. I love him. But now he's moving people. Like, that's what he's doing for money. Linda was like, no, he's my husband. And Shonda was like, he is, I love him. He's amazing. Put him on the show. There was no auditions for Cyrus. It was just Jeff Perry. That's it. Jeff Perry. No one else could have played Cyrus. No. But then we're shooting. I don't remember what episode number. But I'm shooting a scene with Jeff Perry. And they hand out the scripts for maybe the third or fourth episode of the show. And we're shooting one episode, but we get the scripts for the new one. I start like reading. When I can, in between takes, and I get to the line where Cyrus's husband opens the door, and I'm like, "You're gay." -Yeah. -So I'm sitting with him doing the scene. At that point, he didn't know he was gay. So we're sitting doing the scene, and I looked him, and I was like, "Jeff," and he said, "Yeah, I was like, "I know something about you that you don't know." He was like, "What?" I was like, "I can't tell you, but you have to read the episode immediately." -It was so fun. It was so exciting. -That was one of the most devastating love stories on skin. -Truly. -Because Cyrus never chose his morals. -I know. -But did he have them? -Well, there's a good question. -Like, that fight scene between the two of them, the naked fight scene. -Oh, where he's stripping. -Yeah. -I love that scene. -Because he can't even talk to his husband without being like, "Are you wearing a wire?" -Yeah. -No trust. -No trust. -Yeah. -Zero. -Yeah. -Okay. -Please tell me about the new "Knife Out" movie and the prophecy season 2. -You're so sweet. I'm, yeah, I'm so excited. So, on the Simpson Street side, so I started my production company during these scandal years. I did a film for HBO called Confirmation, and that was our first film. And now we have so much exciting stuff going on. We have "Reasonable Doubt" on Hulu. We have this amazing audio series called "The Prophecy." Season 2. It's this very cool, like, supernatural thriller where I play a woman. Basically, the idea that was first pitched to me was during COVID when we were all feeling like, "What is happening in the world?" And this brilliant writer, Randy, was like, "Okay, what if the stuff you read in the Bible isn't actually stories about the past? What if it's prophecy about what's to come?" -Wow. -Or stuff we're living through right now. And so I play this character who cannot get pregnant, but suddenly finds myself pregnant. My name is Virginia. I'm from Virgin Mary, middle name Mary. And there was like this scientist in London who works with lions, who said he's Daniel, and the lion's den, and like a character named Jonah who gets swallowed whole by a whale. Like, all these weird happenings. So that was season one, which you should catch up on 'cause it's David O'Yellowow, and Daniel Day Kim, and Laurence Fishburne, like, incredible cast. Season two, the adventure continues. I'm now on the run with this baby from this, like, crazy cult leader type character played by John Carlo Espicito, and Dolay Hills in it. It's really, really fun. And I love doing audio series 'cause you get to just, like, close your eyes and drop into a world, and you can listen while you're running or doing whatever. -And what's it like creating that audio series as opposed to filming a show? -I mean, I know it's. -It's so great because you don't have to sit through hair and makeup. You can just, like, show up in your pajamas. And for me, there's something about that that actually leads to this very pure performance. Like, I feel as though I've done some of my best acting in this series because you're not thinking about where is the camera and how do I look, or any of that. You're just, like, dropped into this alternate reality in a booth in this, like, cocoon of creativity. So it's very pure, very raw. -Right. -Yeah. -And then knives out. -Nice knives out. -So it's. -I've watched the first two. I love those movies. -Oh, I mean, too. -They're excellent. -I feel so lucky to be in the knives out universe to be in this wake-up dead man movie is so fun. The cast is extraordinary. Andrew Scott and Josh Brolin and Josh O'Connor and Glenn Close and Mila Kunis. I mean, just, like, Jeremy Renner, his first movie back after his big accident. Like, it's just an incredible, of course, Daniel Craig. -Yeah, I was like, "I feel like late." -He's amazing. He's our fearless leader. I love the filmmaker, Ryan Johnson. I love the cast. This iteration of the film is, like, a little bit darker. It's a little bit, like, gothic in a way. It's so cool, so, like, smart and funny and gripping. And, like, there's no way in hell you will guess the ending. -You never do. -You never do. -Which I love. -Where did you guys shoot it? Okay, so the film takes place in upstate New York, but we shot it in London because it's just so much cheaper to shoot overseas right now, which is sad. We have to do something about that in the state of California. -The production to love it. -We really do. I just shot two projects here, which I'm really proud of. So, my company Simpson Street, we have a new series that we just finished shooting for Apple, called "Imperfect Women" with me and Lizzie Moss. -Wow, congratulations. -And, Mera, very exciting. So, that'll be out next year. And then I did a movie with Ben Affleck called "Animal." So, those two things shot in LA, and I'm so grateful, but we just have to bring more work back here. -I feel like especially after the fires as well. -Yes. -There's just, like, this big push, especially from, like, the. -Crews and nudity, the cast and crews, to be like, LA was once such a hub for production. And I feel as though maybe it got lost. And, like, I've recently learned this, that, like, every location has an agent. Like, you have to go through an agent to get a location. Is that true? -Well, the biggest thing that's sort of forced, the shift is finances. It always comes down to money. And there's just so many more incentives in other states and countries to shoot. So, we just have to work on getting more of those incentives here in LA so that people can work and be with their families. That's the big thing is that we have so much talent here in Los Angeles. And a lot of that talent is constantly being flown to other places or just out of work. And so, we don't want to sort of squander our creative community here. We want to provide work for people to do what they do well and chase excellence while still being able to be home for dinner. -Right. And also, I feel like a lot of people don't know this. And I recently learned it. But a lot of the time when you work on a set, the cast and crew comes from the surrounding area because it's work for that area. -That's right. -So, if you're not shooting in LA, a lot of the people that work in costume and cast and crew. -You're unemployed. -Or unemployed. -That's right. That's right. Yeah. Yeah. So, I'm really. I'm excited about all the stuff we have going on. I cannot wait for people to see Wake Up Dead, man. It's just like. It's so fun to be part of a movie like that. -Right. -It'd be in a thriller. A mystery, murder thriller. And to be part of an ensemble. Like, honestly, I've said this in other interviews. It gave me scandal vibes, you know, to be more. -Being more. -To be back. To be back with a set of actors where like. If you show up to do a Knives Out movie, you're not looking to be the star. -Right. -You're like, "I want to be part of a team of bad-ass talented people who want to create something special together." And that was how we always worked at Scandal. Like, we were never. We didn't compete for attention. We didn't compete for press. We weren't. We were so supportive of each other. We used to get together on the weekends to rehearse scenes. We used to get together at each other's houses to watch episodes because when an episode actually aired, we were just tweeting, not watching it. All we were doing was looking at Twitter and responding to people. So, we would try to watch the episodes beforehand so that we knew what we were even tweeting about. We were so close. And it was really fun to be in another ensemble like that again. -Right. Do you ever think down the line, "You guys would ever do some type of reunion?" It's funny. I've thought about it. I mean, obviously, it's up to Shonda. I don't know if we have it in us to do like a series. -Of course. -Revisit. But I think it could. I feel like there's a universe where maybe there could be a Scandal movie. But I don't know. I don't know. It would have to happen, you know, before I'm like, "It's handled." Right? Like, "You want him to like some time in the near future." So I don't know. I don't know. It's a good question, though. Okay. I want to do the "Tell Me What's Wrongs." And so, the "Tell Me What's Wrongs" are. Plus, he's right in and they tell us what's wrong. Okay. I'm scared. I peaked in my 20s. Oh, no. I'm 34 and have fairly normal, but good life. However, I've been feeling very bored these days and everything is very repetitive. My 20s were so much fun, even into Postgrad as I traveled all the time and had no idea what the future held. Is this just a funk? Or am I not doing enough to feel fulfilled? Oh, my goodness. I think you always have room to peak again. But it just might mean shifting your perspective on what you're chasing, right? Like, for me, I feel like my priorities have shifted in life. So, I don't think I've peaked in my career. I still feel like I have room to grow and magic to create and exciting things to be a part of. But I also see my peak differently now. Like, now I'm chasing more than just a cover of a magazine because I've done a lot of those. And I don't think I was ever chasing that, actually, per se. But I feel like I'm more ambitious about all of my life. Like, it's not just this one thing. Like, I want to be as ambitious about my marriage as I am about acting. I'm as ambitious about my kids as I am about social justice. Like, I want to be able to be ambitious about all those things. So maybe the peak just looks and feels different at different times in your life. And you can peak in different ways. But it's like, you don't want to get caught in that thing that people always talk about Michael Jackson like being so depressed because he could never get back to that initial first feeling of having that huge, huge album and he was always chasing those numbers. It's like, don't try to repeat what it was in your 20s. Like, find a new peak. Find what it, what, like, the best of you looks like and feels like now. And I feel like it's hard with social media. Yeah. I do it all the time. All I do is compare myself. And it's, first of all, that's insane because you are one of one. So you can't compare yourself with other people because you're like, you're the best you there ever is going to be. And like, thank you. Right, but I hear you. It's hard. It's hard. It's just I've really, really been trying to get off social media lately and it's become very, very addicted, especially for my generation. And I think I assume what this person is going through is like seeing all their friends probably doing their stuff. I mean, whether that be on LinkedIn, whether that be TikTok, whether that be on Instagram. And I think there's a certain piece. And obviously it's not realistic to just shut it off. Yeah. But to have moments where you can just. like be present and I know that's rich coming from me 'cause I'm the least present person in America. But I think that is the only way to find a new peak and to find it is to really get off that for a minute. - What do you say to yourself when you find yourself and I have a girlfriend who calls it compare and despair? Like when you're in compare and despair, what do you do to shift it for yourself? - I really have been struggling with it. I don't have like a way yet. Oftentimes, if I like to like repress, so I'll put on TV, so I like throw myself into scandal or whatever show I'm watching and just live in that world. Or I, I don't know what I do, what does your girlfriend do? - That's a good question. She is a firm believer in turning off the socials, which you already said. But I think coming back to you, what you said about presence, I think sometimes, like connecting with people in real life can be an antidote to the compare and despair that happens online. 'Cause when you get together with this friend who you're watching with, they're just people in your life who really know you and love you. Like it's important for me to remember that there are people who love me today that I don't have to be somebody else to earn that love or to earn likes or follows or whatever. Like I have people who are down for me as who I am right now in this moment. No makeup, lashes off, like just who I am, you know? - That's what I try to remind myself as well. And I also, I was thinking about this when I really get those things. I'm like, I do try to be like, oh my God, okay. If I was who I am comparing myself to be, I wouldn't be anywhere near what I'm doing today. I wouldn't be here with you. - Your unique experience is yours and yours alone. - I wouldn't, yeah, I wouldn't be talking to you. I wouldn't be living with my best friends. I wouldn't be, I wouldn't know her. I wouldn't know him. Like I wouldn't. So in those moments, I'm like, I am only here because of how, I've, because of who I am. Like I, who you uniquely are. - I wasn't trying to be anyone else. - That's right, when it happened for me. And so that's actually what I always remind myself. I'm always like, you wouldn't even have these opportunities that you want that you're not get it. Like let's say I don't get an opportunity and I'm upset about it. I wouldn't even have a chance to get that opportunity. Had I not been myself up until that very moment. - That's right. That's right. That's beautiful. - So that's what I try to remind myself. - Yes. - Thank you. - I feel like that's what Olivia Pope would say. Like what do you have? What are your gifts? Like that's what you have to be focused on. - Yeah, that's what I remind myself. - Yeah. - Well, on a less somber note, my roommate spoiled scandal for me before I started the last season. - Oh no. - Okay. - Rude. - They didn't mean to, but I need to know how to proceed so I don't murder her. - Deep breaths. - I would say that there is so much that happens that everyone-- - Yeah, there's so much new one. - Yeah. - TGIT was a moment, right? So every Thursday something crazy happens. - Crazy. - So while something might have been spoiled-- - Not everything. - The journey is what's important in scandal. - Look at you. - I know. - Oh my gosh. I love it. I love that. He's right. - Yes. And also, it's my third time watching scandal. - And you're still loving it. - And I'm still working on OPA. - Like, I'm still here. - I love that so much. - Yes, I'm still here. My friends were-- My friends were so toxic that I had to move colleges. Now I'm a sophomore and have no friends at this new school. My last group of friends were so manipulative and repeatedly when make the guys I liked or dated leave me, oh my God. I'm a little-- - No, they're not friends. - Yeah, those were absolutely not friends. I'm a little scared to make new friends. So what's a good start in terms of getting out of that shell? - Oh, maybe focus on an interest, right? Like, I think figure out something that you're passionate about, whether it's like an intramural team or a hobby or a choir or a fitness class, whatever it is. Like, but try to lean into your interests. Like, where are the places that help bring out the best parts of you, places where you go and you feel good 'cause you feel interested and that'll make you maybe feel more confident about getting to know the other people who share that common interest. - I agree too. I think at that point, it's like focus. I remember I met the greatest people in my entire life once I like locked into a career path or something that I was passionate about. - 'Cause you had something in common in a shared sort of-- - That's how I met the energy. - Oh, I see. - And like, that's how I met everyone that I am with every single day is by like locking into this thing. I was really passionate about which was music. And I like met everybody that is still in my life today and it's all because it's like, it's like choosing yourself. Not just that cheesy, but like you know what I mean. - That's right, you start with choosing you and figuring out what are the things I like about me, who do I wanna be, what are the spaces I wanna be and then you'll find yourself with like minded people. Yeah, I love that. - My ex texted me on the death anniversary of my grandfather. We have not spoken in over a year and he said, thinking of you today, you know who that's given? - Fits. (laughing) - How the fuck do I respond to that? The issue is, I've been missing him lately and you know who that sounds like. - Oh, let me up. (laughing) - I mean, I guess I would ask, why did you break up? - Right, sometimes you don't have context. - Right, 'cause I don't know. Maybe you guys should be giving it another go. I don't know, it's hard to say. I feel like it's hard, you know, you don't wanna make blanket statements of like, if you have an ex they have to stay an ex. - Right. - That may or may not be true. - You know, my favorite scene and scandal ever. Actually, every time I rewatch it, I have full body shows every time. You are back from standing in the sun with Jake and you are going, you're handling something. And you are, like your back is Olivia for the day. - Okay. - Just for the day and you're in a building and it just leaving a room. And you guys make eye contact and your hands pass each other. - It's like in a big rotunda with like marble floors, right? - She's nearly touched. And I just remember it was in my best friend, P.M. and we, 'cause she, by the way, I would be remiss to not speak about my friends who also are obsessed with the show. - Shout outs to the friends, gladiators. - Used to, (laughing) P.M. used to wake up every morning before work to watch. Because she, when Olivia got kidnapped, she couldn't go to bed until Olivia wasn't kidnapped anymore. - Oh my god. - 'Cause she stayed up until 6 a.m. and then went into work. - Oh my god. - Yes. - I do, I remember that scene. My favorite thing about that scene is the look on my face and on Tony Goldwyn's face after we pass each other. It's like not quite a smile, but a little bit of like a warmth and like a, yeah, you, and it's what's exciting is not even that the fingers touch, but like the space between the fingers, it's very well shot. - And manageable. - Very well directed. - What is your favorite O'Litt scene? - I think Vermont is for lovers. This is an incredible O'Litts episode. That's when he comes to Vermont in the helicopter. - Oh, and Mally's like Charlotte? Where is my husband? - I think that's it. - I think that is the episode that Ava DuVernay directed. - Wow. - And I remember when, so she and I after that did the commercial for Apple. There was like a huge Apple music commercial that we did during the Emmys with me and Mary J. Blige and Taraji P. Henson. And when we shot the commercial Ava was like, now when we worked on Scandal, I remember you had like a side. Like you had like a good side and a bad side and I was like, oh no girl, like that's not me. And she was like, no, no, no, I remember, I remember specifically having all these conversations that there was a specific way I had to shoot you and I was like, Ava, I don't know what you're talking about. And then she came back to me later that night and she was like, oh, I remember what it was. And I was like, what? She was like, you were pregnant and we couldn't show it. So we're like trying to shoot these love scenes of me and Tony Goldwyn making out. But we're shooting them like from here like bust up because we couldn't show my belly, it was insane. But yeah, that was the side. We couldn't show it was my belly. Were people like, what was it like working while pregnant? And in the sense of like everyone was watching and like no one knew you were pregnant? I mean, you did after a moment because I was like hiding behind boxes and briefcases and chairs and lamps. It was really wild because I begged Shonda to make Olivia Pope pregnant. I was like, I'm going to be growing wider and wider. And I'm going to be like not doing an Olivia Pope walk strut down the hallway. I'm going to be like waddling down hallways. It's going to be so weird. And she was like, you have to figure it out. Like Olivia Pope cannot be pregnant. She was like, I love that. She was so supportive of my pregnancy. Literally jumped up and down in my trailer when I told her she was so happy for me through me the best baby shower ever. Like she was just an incredible boss around that issue. But she was like, Olivia Pope can't be pregnant. I'm so sorry for both my pregnancies. And I didn't really understand it at the time. But when I became a mom, I got it because Olivia Pope is like a superhero. She's always the most powerful, most confident. Like, despite the rooms where she's occasionally made vulnerable by fits, she is a superhero. And there is an inherent vulnerability. and becoming a mom where suddenly your heart is walking outside your body and Especially for being the mother of a black child where your heart is outside your body and vulnerable to all these systems that your child is up against and I got it. I was like that's why Olivia Pope can't be a mom because she can't be that vulnerable for anybody in any circumstance Other than fits right. Yeah, wow. It was really an intense realization for me And was it ever like hard to do like night shoots while like you were like? I mean, I I often were we often worked 16 hour days at scandal I mean, it was really we worked really long days So we tried to toward the end of my pregnancies keep it to like 13 hour days 12 13 hour days But yeah, I worked all the way through and I refused to be out of my heels I was like I can walk in flats. I'm Olivia Pope so I remember my doctor was like take off the heels I was like no, yeah, no, do you know who I am? Yeah, exactly. My name on that door So I can't yeah, I really I I where I did I worked through my pregnancies, and I really it taught me a lot It taught me how to take cat naps, you know, like because you were so tired and But it was great. It was really I had a working mom growing up, and I really respect working moms I respect staying at home moms too Um, but I I really I enjoyed I think I enjoyed my pregnancies more because I was working and getting to spend my time with the people that I love the most right Yeah, I totally forgot to ask you we both grew up in New York. Yes, you grew up what where in the Bronx did you brought? So I grew up central East Bronx like near Castle Hill Parkchester not far from where Jennifer Lopez grew up Actually, we went to the same boys and girls class. Well, wasn't she a substitute dance teacher for you? What was that like so we both had this beloved dance teacher named Larry Maldonado that we loved loved loved and Jennifer is just a little bit older than me So she was in like the big girls group and when Larry got sick and went to the hospital Um, she used to teach so she was like 1617 and I was like nine or 10 and she was teaching these classes and I so I You would think I was a better dancer since I learned to dance from JLo, but she was an incredible teacher Well, and when you were talking about the choreographed dance in scandal, were you talking about When Olivia gets kidnapped when you're looking at Jake and you're like dance with me. No, that one we just freestyled but the episode that I directed was um Katie had just Quinn had just had the baby and there's a scene where she and pop a pope I think are like dancing in a living room I vaguely remember that yeah, I don't remember season seven, but I know that you know Yeah, yeah, so there's like a dance in a living room right It's like an electric slide vibe. I remember that. Yeah, I remember that was Debbie Allen Yeah, I went to spend I did wow and so what train did you take to school? I took the number six. Okay on the six like Jennifer Lopez all the way to Gwyneth's Paltrow world it's been And do you do you keep in touch with anyone? I do. I mean, I I have to say both of those women because I knew them Obviously in very different contexts, but both Gwyneth Paltrow and Jennifer Lopez have been extraordinarily supportive throughout my career Um, and just like real Guides and just like friendly and kind. I mean just recently I because you know Gwyneth is like the queen of wellness and all the things and I was like you need to introduce me to this doctor This was like two weeks ago So she put me on a text set with this doctor and was literally like this is my friend Carrie I've known her since she was in the seventh grade When she was a senior in high school. I was in the middle school. I was in the seventh grade And so we did one play together because The year that she was a senior she played Queen Titania in mid-Summer night stream and the middle schoolers were allowed to audition to be the fairies in mid-Summer So I was a fairy the year that she was doing in senior and so and also we had an acapella group We I think that we still have an acapella group fans called triple trio and so I was going into High school or I to audition for triple trio the exiting seniors were at the audition So I auditioned for her to get into triple trio. We never sang together on triple trio But I had to audition for her. Wow. Wow. I feel like do you remember like any of the Spots around spends that you would go to that are still there I don't know how many of them are still there. I feel like Jackson Hole closed that I'm not sure is Jackson Hole still there on 91st There's a few locations. Yeah, I don't know if it's still there But Jackson Hole was our main hangout And then I mean we used to walk around I used to go to the Met all the time when I was really depressed because I love museums um But also we just like used to walk around the corner to night and gale if we were smoking because we wanted if people if we were smoking We wanted people to think we were night and gale girls not spent girls so we were in trouble. We both yes Yes, wow. Okay, so I was in high school during like the vape an era Oh wow, so no one knew what so we could do it in school and I would go to the bottom floor at Calhoun at Calhoun the big TV school the big yes No walls no walls so I did a summer I did a summer study course at Calhoun and it was like Columbia University had a summer studies program in American studies But we did it at Calhoun and I was like this is such an interesting place and so were you like such a good school It's great, but were you like how how do you focus how did you focus so you actually don't I I remember they were like this is going to teach you how to drown out white noise Obviously it didn't but like I have some of the but I actually recently just went to my high school advisory reunion last week. Oh my gosh That's so sweet with my my English teacher was my advisor. I pray that my kids Have the kind of like warm feelings about the places that they go to school that I have about spends I just remember There was Something about kind of growing up in new I don't know if it was to New York But there was almost like this respect thing with teachers and students that was like I'm going to see you yeah as like capable of making adult mature decisions Yes, and like I'm going to respect you based on that yes an inherent respect like we are treated like infants we were treated like young people but people right you know people who were learning and I feel like The kinds of educations that we got are so special because we I wasn't just taught facts like we were taught how to learn We were taught how to be curious how to be inquisitive how to absorb information and process it so there's just a A different way of engaging even with something like scandal like I hear the way you talk about it the way you see it The way you take in the big picture It's that's a you just I love your mind. I love your mind Well, Carrie what did we learn today? We learned that I am obsessed with you and adore you And I'm very grateful for you and how much you love our show and I just love everything you do I I just think you are Incredible. Thank you. And we learned that DuBla is real DuBla is real. I'm googling like 94 DuBla They're like so actually shonda rhymes made that up up, but DuBla the actual wine is real. That's so cool I have would you Okay You can say now. Okay, thanks. Would you? You're making me nervous. Read something as Olivia Poe. I can try It's been a while. It's been a while, but I can try. Okay, cool. I would say no to most people, but for you, I feel like I have to Is it from the script? No, oh the lyrics to man child by Sabrina Carpenter. Well, that's better I love Sabrina Carpenter Just you know maybe like verse one and so because literally in the car this morning There was another artist on the radio and I was like oh she has Sabrina Carpenter vibes and my daughter was like Oh, I hear that. My son was like no way. We had this whole argument about who knows Sabrina Carpenter more And I was like I saw her alive My son was like yeah, but you only went because Gracie wanted to go and I was like no I want to go first and that anyway, so we had a whole Sabrina Carpenter morning. So this is perfect Into uh right there Yeah, no like if you know you after got you after reading it. Okay. Go go go go go. Give me some context So I would say you were talking to fits. Okay. I'm talking to fits. That's helpful He has fucked up. Okay, and we're done. Okay, and he's fucked up in a sense that it hasn't hurt you. Okay In like directly. Okay, but you're like this is not the person I fell in love with. Okay, good If we do a scandal movie, can I submit you to direct because that was fierce direct Acting I would love to be an OPA intern. Okay, here we go. I'm going to try You said your phone was broken just forgot to charge it Whole outfit you're wearing god, I hope it's ironic Did you say you're finished? Didn't know we started. It's all just so familiar baby. What do you call it? I just had a hat a white hat to wear I almost got one and then I forgot I was just too excited then but also it wouldn't fit over the pony So it's okay, and I would just like to say yes This might go down as my all-time favorite therapist episode the 100th episode Living legend Harry Washington you're so sweet. Can I before you close Will you read the second versus Olivia? Yes, okay, thank you Because I feel like you're so much closer to her right now. It'll help me Yeah, you're giving your fits responding. I'm fit. Yeah, you're responding now Why so sexy Wait, hold on hold on take a moment. Take your time. Take your time. It's not easy Why so sexy if so dumb and "How survived the earth so long?" - Yeah. - If I'm not there, it won't get done. - Uh-huh. - I choose to blame your mom, Maya Pope. Man-child. - Man-child. - Why are you always coming running to me? - Yes. - Fuck my life. Won't you let an innocent woman be, or in this case, the president? (laughing) Never, never heard of self-care. Have your brain just isn't there and you would never say that to Olivia. - Yeah. - Man-child. Why are you always coming running, taking all my loving from me? - Good. - Thank you. (cheering) - And ladies and gentlemen, Harry Washington. - Thank you so much. - So just give a bye-pussies. - Bye-pussies. It's handled. (upbeat music) (upbeat music)